Age of Consent

[Mike]

I saw this being discussed as an aside in another thread, and will run with Bill's suggestion to start a thread on it here.

This is a very slippery slope, I know, but lets give a try anyway.

Theres a personal element here for me. I recall being a junior in high school. I had just arrived to my spanish class with my girlfriend at the time, who was a sophomore. I gave her a peck on the cheek and proceeded to enter the classroom when my teacher pulled me aside and said - with a degree of disgust - "jesus Mike she's just a sophomore!"....

And I thought "..yes, but i'm only a junior". I saw no reason for her comment, and besides, there was no law against 17 yr olds having romantic relationships with 16 yr olds.....or was there?

I started asking around. Everyone had a different idea of what the law was. Of course what I was doing wasnt illegal, but the damage had already been done. I was young and vulnerable to the opinions of my teachers..and I sat thru that class feeling confused and disturbed and vaguely ashamed..

...and it kicked off a paranoia that lasted nearly a decade. Whenever I met someone I was attracted to, I'd suddenly morph into a dmv teller..demanding 3 forms of I.d. before i'd even hug them. Joking, of course..but if there was any doubt at all i'd go out of my way (in often comically absurd ways) to make sure the person was 18, even when it was quite clear that they were.

I knew a guy (a really nice guy too) who had a consentual sexual relationship with a 15 yr old when he was 19. When it was discovered by her parents, they notified authorities. That guy did 7 months in a juvenile facility of some sort, and will have to live with the stigma "sex offender" for the rest of his life. I thought that was quite harsh.

There has to be a law for age of consent, however arbitrary, for all the obvious reasons. But I wish the law left a little room for common sense.

Discuss.

(Wasnt sure where to put this thread? Mods please relocate to wherever you deem appropriate)

[DNA]

Canada seems to have worked something out to the effect of what you are talking about.



The Tackling Violent Crime Act raises the legal age of sexual consent in Canada to 16 from 14, the first time it has been raised since 1892. But the law includes a "close-in-age exception," meaning 14- and 15-year-olds can have sex with someone who is less than five years older.May 1, 2008
Canada's age of consent raised by 2 years - Canada - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canada-s-age-of-consent-raised-by-2-years-1.754941)

www.cbc.ca/.../canada/canada-s-age-of-consent-raised-by-2-years-1 (http://www.cbc.ca/.../canada/canada-s-age-of-consent-raised-by-2-years-1)....

[Mike]

That sounds very reasonable to me Marcus! The laws certainly need a bit of nuance to accommodate all the varying circumstances.

[DNA]

That sounds very reasonable to me Marcus! The laws certainly need a bit of nuance to accommodate all the varying circumstances.


Agreed.
I have a friend, a really great guy, he was walking from one bus stop to another and had ripped a hole in his pants.
The police arrived at his bus stop via a complaint that was made, and now he has the stigma of being a sex offender for the rest of his life as well.
I've heard the same thing for people who have been caught peeing in public if you will.
This seems ridiculous to the extreme to me.


I'm of the opinion that repeat offending pedophiles should be labatomized and have the portion of their brain responsible for sexual impulse removed and or deactivated. But that being said, there is a big freaking difference between a guy who hooked up with a girl at a bar getting in with a fake ID and someone who is actively pursuing prepubescent children.

[Fanna]

In my opinion, the law is here to serve a Purpose. It is not the LAW we need to focus on, but the PURPOSE.

Consent.

I know a thing or two about non-consensual experiences and let me tell you, there is a reason the hand of the law on this subject is made of stiff stuff.

However, if there is no crime, there needs be no punishment. This should be common sense, but in the proximity of patriarchal Law, the concept of thinking leaves us entirely. This must be changed and it starts with each and every one of us forgetting everything we know about the fake matrix of laws and controls here to enslave us.

There is no one right answer just as there is no right religion. All are welcome here on Earth for we all belong here. We all have lessons to learn from each and every one. Luckily, not all of us have to learn from the dire consequences of the true crimes relating to this delicate subject matter.

http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/write.ign.com/62411/2014/01/Tali-drunk.png

[Mike]

That sounds very reasonable to me Marcus! The laws certainly need a bit of nuance to accommodate all the varying circumstances.


Agreed.
I have a friend, a really great guy, he was walking from one bus stop to another and had ripped a whole in his pants.
The police arrived at his bus stop via a complaint that was made, and now he has the stigma of being a sex offender for the rest of his life as well.
I've heard the same thing for people who have been caught peeing in public if you will.
This seems ridiculous to the extreme to me.


I'm of the opinion that repeat offending pedophiles should be labatomized and have the portion of their brain responsible for sexual impulse removed and or deactivated. But that being said, there is a big freaking difference between a guy who hooked up with a girl at a bar getting in with a fake ID and someone who is actively pursuing prepubescent children.

Jeez man...thats absurd.

Christ, I once openly urinated in a grocery store. It was something like 1 in the morning. Look, it was either in the aisle or in my pants!;) all I can say is, thank god for those lifesize cardboard figures advertising beer and chips(jeff gordon in this instance). There was no one around, but still..it provided a nice buffer. Sure, write me a ticket for being a drunken jackass....but reading your post it seems very clear I could have been arrested for a sex offense?! Thats unreal!


Oh, and I agree with you entirely on repeat offenders

[Mike]

Spot on Fanna....and great pic!

[Fanna]

Tequila Se'Lai!

Some topics just require a little bit of liquid courage to approach. Apparently I am not alone either xD In my big city, recent ordinances have put every bathroom outside of a strategically placed Walgreens out of the public use. Needless to say, my tiny bladder has peed in a few alleys before as well (thankfully never in a grocery store behind Jeff, omgggg).

To flare up this topic, I will just mention that the only time I have EVER been confronted, the officer down in california who was clearly just trying to get a closer look. It was ****ed up. He was trying to talk to me as I am sitting there squatting with pee splashing everywhere. Is the law intended to protect or to serve a means to an end?

**** the law. Choose to do the right (or at least the best possible) choice in every moment and find peace that you are bringing about a better world.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rSVmY7BL6MM/T0OeZF8wYSI/AAAAAAAAH50/951R5c7mKtE/s1600/jeff-gordon.jpg
#unintendedsavior

[Mike]

Oh Fanna, the memories are now flooding back:ROFL:

This was something like 17 years ago, before the youtube craze etc... Otherwise id likely be in some infamous grainy black n white viral video, titled something like "watch drunk guy leave ocean of piss behind jeff gordon in local grocery store!!!!" (Theres always like a dozen exclamation points after those titles)

But even as it stood, I was still worried id be discovered somehow and even alerted my Dad to the situation so as to soften what I felt would be the inevitable blow...a headline on the front page "local man urinates in beer aisle, desecrates jeff gordon.." with a worried looking pic of me, furtively glancing over my shoulder as I did the deed.

But alas...I dodged that bullet.

[Orph]

This was something like 17 years ago, before the youtube craze etc... Otherwise id likely be in some infamous grainy black n white viral video, titled something like "watch drunk guy leave ocean of piss behind jeff gordon in local grocery store!!!!"

Tell 'em Jeff did it! :sarcastic:

[Ewan]

In respect of OP it has always been a bone of contention with me that the law is so rigid and even arbitrary. Individual cases are not looked at with a view to circumstance.

I understand the law is to protect vulnerable girls from predatorial males, but make no mistake there are predatorial females too. In addition there are girls as young as 13 who have matured fast and hormonal influence can drive them to 'biologically' seek out experiences. By the same token there are girls of 19 and 20 who are still not ready for any kind of physical relationship. Exactly the same applies to males except the demographic is diametrically skewed, less of the younger males are ready for relationships. Almost as though nature had already considered the potential problems and accounted for them.

When I was 22 and having a drink in a bar after work, I saw a curly haired blonde girl riding by on a horse. I whistled out the window to show my appreciation; (it was a long time ago - wolf-whistling was a lot more common then). To my surprise, (and not a little trepidation, I wasn't as confident as I made out), she dismounted and came over to the window to chat. Cutting to the point we ended up going out and around 5 weeks into the relationship she anounced to me it was her birthday yesterday. I asked why she hadn't told me before as I would have liked to get her something. "I was 16." she told me. I'm quite sure an icy chill ran down my spine, for four weeks I'd been dating a 15yr old. I think it took me a day or two to realise she had never mentioned her age before for a very good reason, that's how niave I was back then. It took me about 48hrs to realise she had been deliberately quiet about the subject.

[ulli]

Tequila Se'Lai!

Some topics just require a little bit of liquid courage to approach. Apparently I am not alone either xD In my big city, recent ordinances have put every bathroom outside of a strategically placed Walgreens out of the public use. Needless to say, my tiny bladder has peed in a few alleys before as well (thankfully never in a grocery store behind Jeff, omgggg).

To flare up this topic, I will just mention that the only time I have EVER been confronted, the officer down in california who was clearly just trying to get a closer look. It was ****ed up. He was trying to talk to me as I am sitting there squatting with pee splashing everywhere. Is the law intended to protect or to serve a means to an end?

**** the law. Choose to do the right (or at least the best possible) choice in every moment and find peace that you are bringing about a better world.

#unintendedsavior
The climate in California allows it, so maybe that's why it is more common there. i was in an LA car park, on the way home after a meal out, and the guy pissing against the wall next to us was actor Nicolas Cage.

Back to topic- , just as eating habits of healthy diets are approximations at a well-functioning individual, so laws are approximations at a well functioning society.

And most laws are designed to suit regional needs.

But imagine a global society where all legislators are vegans...they might find it difficult to impose such laws on people living in arctic regions.

The age of consent in desert regions was always lower, not so much because the men there were all pedophiles, but often took women and children into their households because the husband had been killed or died, and women on their own could not survive there. So laws regarding the number of wives, or age of consent were to protect their reputation, in the context of the local religion.

[Mike]

Well put Ulli. Exactly what im thinking but too groggy n thick tongued to articulate.:)

Well, if anyone had to steal my piss in public thunder, it might as well be Nic Cage..

I was just sort of thinking, pedophiles have their arbitrary figures as well, unfortunately. And thats where I get tripped up in all of this...the sheer arbitrary-ness of it all. Most people, even the most heinous criminals, are usually doing what they feel is right given their understanding of the world. For example, theres this local guy named john jamelske...kidnapped, raped and kept women hostage in some creepy maze of bunkers in his back yard. He's been in prison for years, and even now he can't fathom why. If you watch him in interviews, he's genuinely perplexed as to what all the hubbub is about. He doesnt think hes done anything wrong. Its unbelievable! I think alot of these pedophiles are like that...

Making me think: maybe theres some f'ed up planet out there where rape and pedophilia are regarded as the norm and perfectly ok....and the sane are thought of as criminals. Wait a second, I think im describing our planet..

[ulli]

Well put Ulli. Exactly what im thinking but too groggy n thick tongued to articulate.:)

Well, if anyone had to steal my piss in public thunder, it might as well be Nic Cage..

I was just sort of thinking, pedophiles have their arbitrary figures as well, unfortunately. And thats where I get tripped up in all of this...the sheer arbitrary-ness of it all. Most people, even the most heinous criminals, are usually doing what they feel is right given their understanding of the world. For example, theres this local guy named john jamelske...kidnapped, raped and kept women hostage in some creepy maze of bunkers in his back yard. He's been in prison for years, and even now he can't fathom why. If you watch him in interviews, he's genuinely perplexed as to what all the hubbub is about. He doesnt think hes done anything wrong. Its unbelievable! I think alot of these pedophiles are like that...

Making me think: maybe theres some f'ed up planet out there where rape and pedophilia are regarded as the norm and perfectly ok....and the sane are thought of as criminals. Wait a second, I think im describing our planet..

Our planet is about chosing whether to live by the law of the jungle, the way animals do...eat and be eaten....
or whether to live by a higher ideal which requires self restraint and self denial for the sake of the greater whole.
People who are driven purely by instinct find the second choice inconvenient. And if they get caught it was just a matter of bad luck.

Then a third option would be personified by someone who can find the balance between doing the least harm to themselves and others, and yet can still thrive.

[Mike]

Hey Ewan, thank you for that intelligent, thoughtful post! I bet there are quite a few of us that have found ourselves in that situation. Appreciate your honesty there.

This thread has high potential for conflagration...and im pleased it hasnt descended into that.

[petra]

I have been on the opposite end of the stick as the OP...

When I was 18 I looked 15, and I'd be dating older guys. I didn't even know until many years later that these poor men had to withstand "looks of disgust" while holding my hand.

Age of Consent is really just a legality to help the law make judgments, and it does have a downside. Anyone under the age of consent has the "upper hand" when it comes to the law, and young children are getting increasingly sneaky and deceptive. I think every man needs to be aware of how girls can blackmail or extort them using this law too.

[Fanna]

I think every man needs to be aware of how girls can blackmail or extort them using this law too.


So laws regarding the number of wives, or age of consent were to protect their reputation, in the context of the local religion.

Laws can thus be used for ill under all circumstances. It is not a matter of falling in line with the laws, it is all a matter of falling in line with the LAW. The law simply being that we treat others with respect.


Wait a second, I think im describing our planet..

No, simply our society. Destroy society; save the world.
Fire everything.

[Ewan]

Slightly off-topic the peeing in public thing but there is not another creature on the planet that attempts to hold its bladder, or bowel come to that, if it needs to go. I can't speak for the rest of the world but in the UK public conviences were far more common 40 or 50 years ago that now. Council cutbacks I guess, can't afford a cleaner or senseless vandalism. If they remove the tolets then what options are you left with.

I saw two guys, rather drunk I suspect, in Amsterdam who just stopped in the middle of the street and unloaded. They could have made some effort to be a little discrete but didn't care, possibly the drink.

[Mike]

I have been on the opposite end of the stick as the OP...

When I was 18 I looked 15, and I'd be dating older guys. I didn't even know until many years later that these poor men had to withstand "looks of disgust" while holding my hand.

Age of Consent is really just a legality to help the law make judgments, and it does have a downside. Anyone under the age of consent has the "upper hand" when it comes to the law, and young children are getting increasingly sneaky and deceptive. I think every man needs to be aware of how girls can blackmail or extort them using this law too.



Thanks for that Petra...

I can sort of relate. My aunt n uncle are out of town and decided to leave their 13 yr old daughter - my cousin - home for a week. Crazy, I think, but thats another thread..

Anyway, ive been checking up on her and hanging out with her to keep her out of trouble. Now, im 39 but I look quite young..or so people say. In other words, im not quite old enough looking to be her father..in most peoples eyes anyway. But im much too old looking to be a friend or a boyfriend..

So here I am, taking her for ice cream...here I am, taking her to Moes...here I am, taking her to the movies. See, we keep going to the same damn places, and im getting some serious sideways glances, if ya know what I mean. People are suspicious. My inclination is to say f#ck em, but im quite human and would be lying if I said I wasnt feeling very self conscious over the whole thing

[greybeard]

Regardless of age of consent laws --nature will out.
Those with self control (not judging) will perhaps refrain from having sex before the legal age.

Upbringing is more potent than law.

My Mum said "If they are good enough to sleep with, they are good enough to marry"

Im not sure my lack of experience got my first marriage of to a good start.

Chris

[petra]

So here I am, taking her for ice cream...here I am, taking her to Moes...here I am, taking her to the movies. See, we keep going to the same damn places, and im getting some serious sideways glances, if ya know what I mean. People are suspicious. My inclination is to say f#ck em, but im quite human and would be lying if I said I wasnt feeling very self conscious over the whole thing

Yup there it is, that awful side effect. That's just terrible when you know you're doing nothing wrong, but people are still suspicious!

I admit, if I was there I might be giving you sideways glances too, and shame on me for that. I think you are right to be paranoid though. All it would take is one of those people to misjudge you, report to child services, and next thing you know the poor child is in a room alone getting interrogated. This whole world is nuts, pardon my cynicism.

Fanna said "Destroy society; save the world" which sounds like it'd work - no society = no sociopaths = no psychopaths? I just don't think it'd be that easy though, because I believe that psychopaths are born that way and cannot be cured. The fact that people even -want- to molest children is very telling, and I think that even if everyone lived like cavemen, there would still be child molesters.

[Mike]

I'm not sure thats exactly what Fanna meant. Perhaps she can elaborate a little. Fanna, will you please get up in front of the class and explain yourself?:)

[Fanna]

I think that even if everyone lived like cavemen, there would still be child molesters.

I have no intent for us to live like cavemen. The opposite of a global elite cartel fashioning society and its laws by occult strings is not chaos. All I am saying is to stop focusing on the laws and focus on doing what is RIGHT. Like Greybeard! Stop focusing on the law and focus on upbringing; bring up this world!

[petra]

I think that even if everyone lived like cavemen, there would still be child molesters.

I have no intent for us to live like cavemen. The opposite of a global elite cartel fashioning society and its laws by occult strings is not chaos. All I am saying is to stop focusing on the laws and focus on doing what is RIGHT. Like Greybeard! Stop focusing on the law and focus on upbringing; bring up this world!

Of course not, just an example of a world without a society. No offense was intended, I just find it hard to imagine a world without society and is the best I could come up with.

It would be nice if we could evolve to the point of not needing laws, because everyone would just "do the right thing", but I see that a long way off yet.

[Fanna]

It starts with you; that is the only thing you can change. Live it and it will be so.

[Mike]

I think every man needs to be aware of how girls can blackmail or extort them using this law too.


So laws regarding the number of wives, or age of consent were to protect their reputation, in the context of the local religion.

Laws can thus be used for ill under all circumstances. It is not a matter of falling in line with the laws, it is all a matter of falling in line with the LAW. The law simply being that we treat others with respect.


Wait a second, I think im describing our planet..

No, simply our society. Destroy society; save the world.
Fire everything.



Right, respect. But here we bump into arbitrary-ness again.

Im thinking of the person who wouldnt cater a gay wedding, for example, because it doesnt jibe with their religious beliefs. Many would call that bigotry, or discrimination. But the so called religious folks would call it religious freedom.

We all want respect...but we cant always agree on what that means

[Fanna]

Many would call that bigotry, or discrimination. But the so called religious folks would call it religious freedom.

We all want respect...but we cant always agree on what that means

We teach it. It will not be easy, but if we do not accept the challenge, we will simply face more of the same. Saving this world is a task that involves saving every single bigot and every single rapist as well as those in our close family. Show love to all, mean well to all. Live by an example that is brighter than a holy minister and you become one to all. We must do something. THAT is what I mean by fight. Fight like the world depends on it. It does.

[Mike]

Many would call that bigotry, or discrimination. But the so called religious folks would call it religious freedom.

We all want respect...but we cant always agree on what that means

We teach it. It will not be easy, but if we do not accept the challenge, we will simply face more of the same. Saving this world is a task that involves saving every single bigot and every single rapist as well as those in our close family. Show love to all, mean well to all. Live by an example that is brighter than a holy minister and you become one to all. We must do something. THAT is what I mean by fight. Fight like the world depends on it. It does.



What if all the bigots and rapists and criminals thought *we* were the ones that required saving? What if they united under this purpose and fought just as hard as we did towards saving them?;)

A rhetorical question....only intended to inspire a little thought.

We all have different ideas of right and wrong..which is why we have laws of course. A truly enlightened society wouldnt be in this position of trying to legislate morality, but we're not quite there yet. I sometimes wonder if the only way of getting there is, ironically, getting rid of all laws. Might force us to grow up quick (after a bit of anarchy, of course)

[Sueanne47]

Hey Mike ~ how about us older girls???!! we are great fun/witty/intelligent (LOL)/sassy/romantic/chic.... what more could a guy want :hippie:

[Mike]

Hey Mike ~ how about us older girls???!! we are great fun/witty/intelligent (LOL)/sassy/romantic/chic.... what more could a guy want :hippie:




Well of course!:) you'll get no argument from me there!

Have I given the impression anywhere in this thread that I might think otherwise?? (...nervously skimming posts now..;))

[TargeT]

Hey Mike ~ how about us older girls???!! we are great fun/witty/intelligent (LOL)/sassy/romantic/chic.... what more could a guy want :hippie:

My wife is 6 years older... at 18 I "romantically pursued" a 28 year old bartender at my work place.... were I not male these situations would be looked on in a disparaging way for the most part.. ahh misandry; the only widely practiced and ignored prejudice we are allowed these days...

[Mike]

Hey Mike ~ how about us older girls???!! we are great fun/witty/intelligent (LOL)/sassy/romantic/chic.... what more could a guy want :hippie:

My wife is 6 years older... at 18 I "romantically pursued" a 28 year old bartender at my work place.... were I not male these situations would be looked on in a disparaging way for the most part.. ahh misandry; the only widely practiced and ignored prejudice we are allowed these days...



Respect that.

If only I had a dime for every time an older woman said to me (blushing) "..but im old enough to be your mother...)

:)


Add to edit: because that makes me sound a little creepy. If I had a dime for every time that happened I might have 60 cents. Point being, ive been unsuccessful in that area.;)

[petra]

Saving this world is a task that involves saving every single bigot and every single rapist as well as those in our close family. Show love to all, mean well to all.

I'm sorry but I'm finding this particularly stomach turning...

Great in concept, but consider the ones who don't want to be saved. Those exist too, and I we still need to learn what to do with them as a society. Frankly I have no idea but saving them is not a valid option in my book.

I have an "evil part" too if you will, and that part of me has noticed that this type of thinking can get people into trouble. While researching psychopathy I came across this exact reason why people are targeted by psychopaths (or we could also call them "smart monkeys", same thing)

[Orph]

Now, im 39 but I look quite young..or so people say. In other words, im not quite old enough looking to be her father..in most peoples eyes anyway. But im much too old looking to be a friend or a boyfriend..

So here I am, taking her for ice cream...here I am, taking her to Moes...here I am, taking her to the movies. See, we keep going to the same damn places, and im getting some serious sideways glances, if ya know what I mean. People are suspicious. My inclination is to say f#ck em, but im quite human and would be lying if I said I wasnt feeling very self conscious over the whole thingI was in a similar situation many years ago. I knew a girl who had a niece who was about 11 or 12 years old. I was very good friends with them both. She (the niece) was a real tomboy, and loved sports. I remarked that perhaps she would like to go to football games with me. Next thing you know people are saying stuff like "Hey, I hear you are going on a date with *****".

Geeeeeeze. Had she been a boy, nobody would've given it a second thought. But because she was a girl, suddenly I'm dating a 12 year old. Needless to say, I never took her to any games.

[boutreality]

Let's link Age of Consent to neurological development.
Last I read 19 is when a person's brain has its own neurological foundation for its own reasoning in place; that foundation -in neurological terms- starts building at about 17.
I say raise Age of Consent from 18, (California is 18) to 19 nationwide, some "close in age" consideration is likely valid.

The brain begins the process of refining its own reasoning capacity at 21, and at 23 -neurologically- one is thought to be capable critical analysis.
-Again this is based upon what I remember reading about brain development some time ago.
The point is, if we know this a facet of neurological development, why do any states consider anything less than 18 a valid Age of Consent?

Any behavior or thought process before those ages that mimics reasoning or critical analysis is based upon learned or copied behavior.

I'm in NV, I believe it's still 16 here, back when I was new to town -over 15 yrs ago- they had to make a special provision preventing teachers from sleeping with their students. It was a new thing just being introduced then!

[DNA]

I think that even if everyone lived like cavemen, there would still be child molesters.

I have no intent for us to live like cavemen. The opposite of a global elite cartel fashioning society and its laws by occult strings is not chaos. All I am saying is to stop focusing on the laws and focus on doing what is RIGHT. Like Greybeard! Stop focusing on the law and focus on upbringing; bring up this world!



I often go to a quote by Robert Anton Wilson when explaining why I do not think anarchism can work.



I'm a libertarian because I don't trust (https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Trust) the people as much as anarchists do. I want to see government (https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Government) limited as much as possible; I would like to see it reduced back to where it was in Jefferson (https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jefferson)'s time, or even smaller. But I would not like to see it abolished. I think the average American, if left totally free (https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Free), would act exactly like Idi Amin (https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Idi_Amin). I don't trust the people any more than I trust the government.

[Fanna]

Why does everyone think I am an anarchist for wanting everyone to stop the global elite one thought at a time? :(

[DNA]

Why does everyone think I am an anarchist for wanting everyone to stop the global elite one thought at a time? :(



Well, yes.
That was what I got.
I mean it's cool and all, I've known some pretty cool anarchists, I personally just do not think it could work is all.
But, you've made your self clear, so no ill will intended there.


When I was younger, I was of the opinion that people could be fixed, and or that they wanted to be fixed.
Age has taught me that this is not the case.
I hear some power of intention in your statement. Is that so?
I'm of the opinion that the elite are aware of the power of intention and have been programming society ever since we have been born.
Money, Music, Movies, Government, News Agendas
These have all been used quite successfully to program society and keep the power of intention fixated as the wizards wish it to be.


The age of consent is an example in this. It creates the fixation of sex being something one can and thus one should experience at this age.
Sexual energy being the ultimate Loosh, if there are archonic fisherman with loosh nets trolling the earth, then they must be very happy with their catch as of late.


I think if one is to have any hope on altering this stream of power going to the elite, then a person should look to manifest that change in one's own self.
And then, one may give personal examples about how one is accomplishing this. This I believe can truly change the world.


Just my 2 cents.
A good day to all
:happy dog: :flower:

[Fanna]

I think if one is to have any hope on altering this stream of power going to the elite, then a person should look to manifest that change in one's own self.
And then, one may give personal examples about how one is accomplishing this. This I believe can truly change the world.
Just my 2 cents.
A good day to all
:happy dog: :flower:

This is all I want anyone to do, very elegantly said. Today I helped a woman get her two kids out of the hands of her abusive husband and into a homeschool environment where they can truly flourish. Later tonight, I hope to head over to Boeing to loiter, ask too many questions, and hand out informational flyers to the night crew.

I still do not think I am being anarchical, but I guess everything I am doing is sort of against the law that restricts and constrains the American people. Or maybe I just overreacted because I truly believe in people gathered in groups with the intention of helping each other. Separation is not what we need. Connection is.

[boutreality]

What is actually at issue when it comes to determining an appropriate Age of Consent is to what degree a moral relativism is applied.

Because one adult handled a situation with a child, reading the "scenario" of the involvement as the child "being open to sexual relations" does not mean that an adult can apply his view of the hypothetical to the rest of the world and therefore deem his action appropriate.
-An assessment of what an appropriate decision is, extrapolated to apply to people in general, based on Moral Relativism.

That stance above is viewed only from the side of the hypothetical perpetrator'sview. Let's consider actual brain function in the child, wherein the individual capacity to make decisions in one's own best interest is founded, and ask if any Age of Consesnt lower than 18 is in keeping with an adult responsibility to steward the welfare of children.

From American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry article entitled "Teen Brain: Behavior, Problem Solving, and Decision Making":

"Scientists have identified a specific region of the brain called the amygdala which is responsible for instinctual reactions including fear and aggressive behavior. This region develops early. However, the frontal cortex, the area of the brain that controls reasoning and helps us think before we act, develops later. This part of the brain is still changing and maturing well into adulthood."

Whole article may be read here: http://www.aacap.org/AACAP/Families_and_Youth/Facts_for_Families/FFF-Guide/The-Teen-Brain-Behavior-Problem-Solving-and-Decision-Making-095.aspx

Given this and other supporting information -of which there is plenty; information called "current science"- a child is incapable of of reasoning on their own, in fact to quote that same line again: "This part of the brain is still changing and maturing well into adulthood."
It is now accepted that the pre-frontal cortex, associated with impulse control and decision making, is the last to mature.
Sexual relations of any type with adults threatens the stability of this development in the child, especially when how this abberation in generally accepted behavior impact s child's developing sense of social reasoning; what behavior is accepted in which social situation being a main facet of social reasoning.

I submit that any argument made to justify an Age of Consent lower than 18 is results from individual and/or cultural Moral Relativism (a culture being a group of individuals adhering to laws designed by individuals.)
There is a money interest involved i slaw-making world wide. I am confident in saying that when Age of Consent is the issue, decsions are made, in part to, support an underground "pedophile tourism."
Where a small sector of the population with the means and interest in pedophilia travel to areas of the world where what they are sick enouhg to consider their "sexual preference" (Moral Relativism) is protected by law.

[TargeT]

I submit that any argument made to justify an Age of Consent lower than 18 is results from individual and/or cultural Moral Relativism

I dunno where you grew up, but my age of ... "consent" was 14..... and possibly would have been earlier if I had a clue at younger ages... now granted that was between like age groups (14 and 15 respectively).

Did I or the other participant lose anything by that interaction? was there a moral issue there?

Did I (as the younger party) get taken advantage of?

I think "we" have some very strange hang ups about sex & for some individuals even 18 is too young (my daughter is one of those, 20 years old currently with my 1 year old granddaughter and a string of failed relationships)...


The prefrontal cortex, which begins to develop around the onset of puberty, does not complete its development until age 25. This section of the brain controls impulse inhibition, goal planning and organization. The brain's reward system also becomes highly active around the start of puberty, receding to a normal adult level around 25. This overly active reward system causes adults under 25 to seek out uncertain situations to find out whether they might be rewarding & is a HUGE part of growth and development.

How many great stories (life lessons) do you have from your 15-25 year range?

Should we limit that?


If we are going to base it on biology, shouldn't the age of consent be 25 or (to be safe) 30?


I think this is a lot more complex than just physical development.

[boutreality]

TargeT

This culture does have sexual hang-ups- yes. You were 14 with people in your own age group. I'm not saying teens can't have sex- that'd be stupid.

I'm saying that adults should damn well know better, and not play the swimming justification picture; explaining their role in a sexual encounter with an underage girl/boy in terms of a their-side only perspective.

As I said, even at 18 some near age consideration of 2-3 yrs should be enacted.

-I'm not sure what tangential "whos-a-whatsit" argument your pulling the 25 or 30 argument from; I was very clear.

[TargeT]

I'm saying that adults should damn well know better, and not play the swimming justification picture; explaining their role in a sexual encounter with an underage girl/boy in terms of a their-side only perspective.
.

I can be VERY persuasive and apparently I'm (or was) not terrible to look at... I relentlessly pursued a 27-28 year old... she did wait until the day after I turned 18 to return any attention; but what about situation?

I do not feel like I lost anything in that interaction...


or are you (assuming here... ass u me.. haha) focused mainly on the older male younger female interaction?


Ahhhh misandry, the only prejudice we are allowed anymore these days.

[music]

Let’s imagine that ideal world, where we are all individuals who operate from ascended consciousness, and were the dark twists and turns of repressed aspects do not colour all we say and do. That dream where we recognise that we are all one, precious little God fragments dreaming a dream.

In that world of full awareness, consensual sexual relationships between partners of any age would be unremarked, as each person would be fully in control of the who and the what of themselves, and act accordingly.

We don’t live in that world.

While we live in this world, where the psyches of all of us are twisted and coloured by experience and repressed aspects, and by our communal abnegation of our inherent darkness (as opposed to acknowledging only the light), then it is important to have a sensible age of consent to prevent predatory abuse.

No amount of philosophising will make up for the inherently flawed nature of humanity as we currently stand, and the young must be protected at all costs. Otherwise, we are nothing.

[TargeT]

the young must be protected at all costs. Otherwise, we are nothing.


As a father of 6....I completely disagree.

Protected from what? Lessons about life??

I take the opposite stance, the young MUST be educated and prepared for what may come, not put in bubble wrap and hidden from reality...

Seriously, if your not a parent; wtf are your (the general "you" no one specific)opinions based on?

Even if you aren't a parent... Just common sense should tell you this... I've had the experience of what you speak of with my older children (raised when I still had much to learn) and now my younger ones that I'm working with differently.... It's a dramatic difference.

[music]

the young must be protected at all costs. Otherwise, we are nothing.


As a father of 6....I completely disagree.

Protected from what? Lessons about life??

I take the opposite stance, the young MUST be educated and prepared for what may come, not put in bubble wrap and hidden from reality...

Seriously, if your not a parent; wtf are your (the general "you" no one specific)options based on?

And what makes you assume I or anyone else involved in this thread is not a parent? In fact I am a parent, of a boy and a girl. I was also systematically abused as a five year old, a fact that was only discovered by my mother when my arse started bleeding in the bath. So, yes, you might say that I have a rough idea of what children need to be protected from.

So, my opinions are based on experience, and on the fact that children are not developmentally prepared to enter the sexual realm, and in fact introducing them too early even to certain concepts can be damaging to them. If I was seeking to groom my children for paedophilia (very important you don't think I am accusing you of that, because I am not), then by all means I might tell them everything, and burst that bubble of childhood innocence, but I am interested in the natural, not unnatural, development of my children. If they ask a question about sex, I will answer that question, but there are some areas of sex that are just beyond the understanding of younger children.

Yes, children are naturally sexual animals, and naturally curious, but that nature and that curiosity are often cited by paedophiles as justification for their crimes. "The child wanted it", "the child seduced me". This is the correct place for you to insert 'wtf'. This is not cool, and I would suggest that telling our children too much, too soon, is as damaging as telling them too little, too late.

[TargeT]

So, would you consider your experience to be the norm?

Cause I figured that's what we are talking about.

I highly doubt consent ever came up in your experience, and it's a terrible one for sure... But is that the current discussion?

[music]

Sexual abuse of children is far more the norm than most of us would care to admit. Discussions on the age of consent should always be conducted with the worst case scenario as a yardstick, as surely this is the best way to reduce abuse?

I have always seen the notions of lowering the age of consent, and the sexualisation of children as NWO agenda items by the way, one thrust (pardon the pun) in their multi-pronged attack upon the coherency of the stable family unit.

[Atlas]

I say raise Age of Consent from 18, (California is 18) to 19 nationwide, some "close in age" consideration is likely valid.

The brain begins the process of refining its own reasoning capacity at 21, and at 23 -neurologically- one is thought to be capable critical analysis.
If there must be an age for consent, I'd suggest +24 for the same reasons.


No amount of philosophising will make up for the inherently flawed nature of humanity as we currently stand, and the young must be protected at all costs. Otherwise, we are nothing.
Well said.


The prefrontal cortex, which begins to develop around the onset of puberty, does not complete its development until age 25. This section of the brain controls impulse inhibition, goal planning and organization.
This is what I'm saying.

https://img.ifcdn.com/images/cf19e1a7f94630617b219db23c83b722c997178f2340b5df4bbb42102cd8f561_1.jpg

[boutreality]

TargeT-

I'm glad she waited, if the situation was reverse I'd be glad he waited.

[greybeard]

In UK there is a sex register, offenders are put on this--their name remains there for an allocated period of time, on going, after the crime is committed against an underage person and that includes where an underage but " mature teen" has given consent. Not getting into what is mature. So that remains after sentence is served.

Is this an additional deterrent? --who knows
Does setting an age limit prevent underage sex happening? I have my doubts--some will partake, some will not

Chris

[KiwiElf]

Time for some frank and honest chat: :)
The thread title is Age of Consent (as opposed to abuse or pedophiles), so that's where this chat is going from me ;))

Setting an age limit has never prevented kids from having sex. Most play "doctor" well before puberty. The youngest "couple" so far on record to have conceived a child were both aged 7. At the other extreme, some don't hit puberty until 18. I was a fairly early starter: I could, (in theory), father a child at the age of nine, most of my mates didn't hit that point until around 13, pretty much the "average". (One at 18 was still waiting for his voice to break!)

And yeah, I lost my virginity at the age of 13 by seducing my babysitter who was 18. (She and I weren't too worried about it at the time, altho that would technically make her a pedophile! I didn't know that then or care - I remember us both having a very enjoyable experience!. It was consenting.)

I'm assuming that the age of consent for most countries took the more conservative route and generally decided on an all encompassing "safe" age at the outer end of the spectrum of around 18. (In NZ it's 16 for either gender regardless of sexuality). Crazy rule... you can "do it" at 16, but you can't "look at it" until you're 18! (ie pornographic material). Go figure. That and there's plenty of evidence of teens and even younger "sexting" each other on their phones these days.

To my knowledge, most of my mates and friends (incl girls), had lost their virginity anywhere from between 12-14.

Making a law that you can't "do it", saying you can't "do it", or shouldn't "do it", or not "do it" hasn't and won't stop many young people "doing it". :)

[TargeT]

Sexual abuse of children is far more the norm than most of us would care to admit.

I was talking purely of consent. All of my conversations have been about that.

Now you try to frame it in abuse, which was never discussed before.

well now that the waters are muddied, I don't think I have anything to add to what ever this conversation is.

But your tact, were I a more triggry type could be seen in a bad light from my perspective............. that's about all I'll say.

[boutreality]

A culture acknowledges its laws, whether at the state or federal level. In a state where the AoC is 18 any adult pursuing anyone under 18 knows he is intent on breaking the law.

Where the AoC is lower, that same bar is necessarily lower; the line to be crossed between what is considered "acceptable" and illegal. A 30 yr old with a 16 yr old -NV AoC: 16 is acceptable, the couple will not have the easiest social schedule. It is not, in any ethical determination, for any reason, justified.

That's what's at issue when determining the AoC; the cultural standard.

"It ain't so simple is it? -Handcuffed to my wrist again, you wanna keep your head above then swim, or sink." -"Kudzu" by Astronautalis

[Fanna]

A culture acknowledges its laws, whether at the state or federal level. In a state where the AoC is 18 any adult pursuing anyone under 18 knows is intent on breaking the law.


Oh god, I ACKNOWLEDGE a lot of laws are there, but I will knowingly break the ones that make no sense. I mean in one day I usually rack up a number of illegal activities from feeding the homeless to undermining our educational system to sharing classified documents to downright treason!

A number is arbitrary. Consent is not.

[boutreality]

Apparently the lowest Age of Consent by state is 16, which is honestly better than I thought.
I retract my comments alluding to lower AoCs in different States.

Fanna: We're not talking numbers, we're talking age.

I'm happy you do so much to help, even, apparently breaking the law to do so -it is BS that we can't feed the homeless and do other activities to offer aid in general to our fellow man. I applaud you for doing so.

Specifically (how I see it) we're talking at what age can we realistically determine that consent is in the hands, both mentally and emotionally, of the one expected to give consent.

Therefore I maintain that 18 should be the absolute minimum, and based upon current neurological understanding, that 19 is more appropriate, and let those close in age have their fun.

Children need to be allowed to grow -totally let them "do it" with each other if so inclined- keep grown ups out of the equation; it's only decent.

On PA the concept of Service to Self v Service to Others has been bandied about. It's a decent distinction.
How is a grown man with anyone under 18 Service to anyone but the Self of the grown-up?"

Nothing about the SoO v SoC says "discount knowledge and facts." -Really do the research on neurological development, reasoning and emotional security and take that into account.

I get that this world has fractured many; that maturity is a sliding scale proposal. Can't we at least agree to let kids be kids without undue (older) influence, even if that entails dedication and (perhaps difficult) growth for us as individuals?

"My time spent there grew tiresome and dimmed my eyes. What I thought I'd find turned out to be the shadows of what people like to pretend they will become." -Me

[Fanna]

I will always stand by that the answer is education, not retribution.

I am sorry if I sounded vindictive, I really do not belong in this thread at all. Too close to the issue.

Much love <3

[KiwiElf]

I'm not familiar with sex education practises in the US? Here, we are taught in school at a very young age ie 11-12 onward - this continues through into what we call high-school and the US calls College (from 13-18).

My parents, and most of my friend's parents, had the good common sense to teach their kids what they could starting at around age 10-11. In my case, a book on the "birds and the bees" specifically written for kids. (my very Catholic Aunt also did this with my cousins of similar age, but from a very negative point of view and a "book" written by the Catholic Church - everything in THAT Catholic book was just plain WRONG, full of "sin", fear & guilt and "you'll grow hairs on your palms, and go to Hell" rubbish. They ended up with some very screwed-up ideas about sex! (Yeah - we "compared notes" ;))

Good education at a young age has a lot to do with it.

[music]

This will be my last post on the matter, so as not to de-rail this thread intent of focussing ONLY on the age of consent. My input is that the age of consent CANNOT be considered in isolation from Monarch programming and the sexualisation of children through mass media. But of course, feel free to continue, in a discussion which appears to me to centred around guys saying how young they were when they first did it, or how they had a Mrs Robinson-type figure in their youth.

http://whale.to/b/sexualizing_children.html

(http://whale.to/b/sexualizing_children.html)

[boutreality]

music- i cannot agree more. If I could list two thanks I would.

It's one of the reasons for my strong stance; I consider this an aspect of a large scale war against sentient consciousness, discouraging decent behavior, and not in a "you all should be religious" sense.

If interested check out my take on a mass, highly advanced system of control into which all "Monarch"/"Soft Kill"/"Mk-Ultra" type programs feed.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?92604-NAZIS-NWO-the-NEW-AGE

[TargeT]

This will be my last post on the matter, so as not to de-rail this thread intent of focussing ONLY on the age of consent. My input is that the age of consent CANNOT be considered in isolation from Monarch programming and the sexualisation of children through mass media. But of course, feel free to continue, in a discussion which appears to me to centred around guys saying how young they were when they first did it, or how they had a Mrs Robinson-type figure in their youth.

http://whale.to/b/sexualizing_children.html

(http://whale.to/b/sexualizing_children.html)

Oh I don't know, there's a lot of options other than "here's how to raise your kids by NBC"... there are a lot of possibilities out there....

My children (mostly girls), even my 9 year old girl (youngest) know how to crush a trachea (https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080706115847AAVAWWM) and when the ONLY time you would do that is (most can (not all, yet) successfully perform an arm bar from the standing position). There are ways to do things, they are not always known by everyone.. I choose absolute knowledge over anything else. If you believe in free will you cannot do anything else, IMO.

Read those studies about impulse and brain development all you want; environment is more influential... ALWAYS.. we have learned this (https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/09/100906085156.htm), it will soon become common knowledge.

I reject your argument, again. from experience and from personal knowledge. (this is not to say there are not a multitude of growths that need to happen through out life, but full, un-yielding education about these, the consequences and the possible choices and likely outcomes (from a genuine place of experience)are paramount to all else.)

Things CAN be done better... it takes the right person to actually do it. the entire frame shifts and your additions seem "a bridge too far". Do it right, or else... don't bother. (This is an expression of my frustration with the majority of parents I meet, not targeted at any individual; I do not know if there are more than a handful doing what I do, but I do know there are a lot.. just not where I am, or anywhere I know of personally.)

[boutreality]

Part of making sure things do get done better is having these discussions, with these stances being taken for these reasons. Like you said, we're already past 7 billion and decency is the majority.

[KiwiElf]

@ Music - it wasn't my intention to "brag & boast" about my "youthful sexual encounters" - I was just stating it the "way it is/was" for me and many of my friends when we were wayyy under the "legal AoC". Nor do I think those experiences were "abnormal" (at least, not in this country).

I posted this on another thread and it's relevant here (edited):


ooooof this is a polarising subject! Everyone reaches puberty at different ages; for some it may be as early as 7 and for others it may be as late as 17-18 - the average is around 12-13 yrs. Physical maturity is one thing, what about emotional maturity?

If we were honest about this tho, many start experimenting with sex at around puberty, or even earlier (just not usually with adults!)

In some Pacific Island, Asian and tribal cultures, it's considered quite "normal" for an older family member to "physically teach" a younger family member about the "birds and the bees" (altho this is rarely talked about to outsiders); this is usually determined when that person reaches puberty. So by "our" standards, we're talking pedophiles and incest! To them, it's "normal". (And who are we to judge?)

The ancient Samurai of Japan also taught their "young trainees" (some very young) in ahem,... more than just martial arts and sword play, shall we say?

The "cabin boys" of ancient Naval & maritime legend, weren't just put on a ship to make cups of tea!

(In all of the above it is generally consenting).

This was quite common practise globally until about a Century ago.

@ boutreality
With respect, "Things being done better" and "decency" are very subjective opinions, (and btw, irrespective of what we believe or agree with, there is absolutely no psychological evidence to support that consenting sex between a "minor" and an "adult" - whatever that is in various countries - is a very "grey area" - does any any harm to the "minor". None. Period: ("Sexual Knowledge" 1972, & revised editions (and other titles), by Sexologist, Günther Hunold)

Predators, on the other hand, are predators, irrespective of age (I'm now talking sexual abuse:molestation, uninvited, unwanted and/or taking advantage of, or forced sexual encounters with said minors in certain situations, ie grooming, drugging, forcing, rape etc).

"Sex" should also not be ambiguously referred to as "sex" when it really means "penetration".

Perhaps it's appropriate to examine what the age of consent is in other countries and why this is such a "mess" of opinion: what might be a "pedophile" in the US isn't necessarily so in NZ, Japan or the Netherlands (where a "minor" could be anywhere under the ages of 12, 14, 16 or 18 years).

Some cultures have no age limit at all and I certainly don't agree with that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent_reform

[greybeard]

@ Music - it wasn't my intention to "brag & boast" about my "youthful sexual encounters" - I was just stating it the "way it is/was" for me and many of my friends when we were wayyy under the "legal AoC". Nor do I think those experiences were "abnormal" (at least, not in this country).

I posted this on another thread and it's relevant here (edited):


ooooof this is a polarising subject! Everyone reaches puberty at different ages; for some it may be as early as 7 and for others it may be as late as 17-18 - the average is around 12-13 yrs. Physical maturity is one thing, what about emotional maturity?

If we were honest about this tho, many start experimenting with sex at around puberty, or even earlier (just not usually with adults!)

In some Pacific Island, Asian and tribal cultures, it's considered quite "normal" for an older family member to "physically teach" a younger family member about the "birds and the bees" (altho this is rarely talked about to outsiders); this is usually determined when that person reaches puberty. So by "our" standards, we're talking pedophiles and incest! To them, it's "normal". (And who are we to judge?)

The ancient Samurai of Japan also taught their "young trainees" (some very young) in ahem,... more than just martial arts and sword play, shall we say?

The "cabin boys" of ancient Naval & maritime legend, weren't just put on a ship to make cups of tea!

(In all of the above it is generally consenting).

This was quite common practise globally until about a Century ago.

@ boutreality
With respect, "Things being done better" and "decency" are very subjective opinions, (and btw, irrespective of what we believe or agree with, there is absolutely no psychological evidence to support that consenting sex between a "minor" and an "adult" - whatever that is in various countries - a very "grey area" - does any any harm to the "minor". None. Period:

Predators, on the other hand, are predators, irrespective of age (I'm talking uninvited, unwanted and/or taking advantage of, or forced sexual encounters with said minors in certain situations, ie grooming, drugging, forcing, rape etc).

Perhaps it's appropriate to examine what the age of consent is in other countries and why this is such a "mess" of opinion: what might be a "pedophile" in the US isn't necessarily so in Japan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent

I agree with your posts Kiwi
If my peers were to believed my virginity at the age of 15 would seem to be a rarity.

A lot of hang ups are created with regard to sex.

Being honest if it was not for my upbringing and the fear of getting a girl pregnant--fear of buying contraceptives fear etc. I would have enjoyed sex at an earlier age, as the rest of my peer group seemed to have done.

If you take away the fears what do you have--an enjoyable experience for both the girl and boy--obviously there has to be contraception.
Im not talking promiscuity but if there is a genuine equal attraction why not, particularly in an ongoing relationship!!!

I can see why there has to be a legal age limit --You can get married at Sixteen in Scotland---If I was to set an age of consent it would be sixteen but at times there are mitigating circumstances ie a level of maturity beyond physical age.

I am sorry for those that were abused but this thread is no primarily about that.

Chris

[KiwiElf]

Oops -was in the process of editing my post greybeard! (It reads a little differently now.)

I too have utmost respect and empathy for those who have been sexually abused (at any age). Nor did I translate the subject of this thread to be about that. My deepest apologies to anyone I may have inadvertantly offended.

[boutreality]

Kiwielf-
The comment encapsulated a process that the world is going (goes) through. In that regard your comment adds a dimension according to what you thought I had missed; another part of the process.

And regarding your source, the articles/data I cite are 20yrs+ newer than 1972; another part of this process- current science.

[KiwiElf]

Thanks for clarifying boutreality - that was just one source I could remember off the top of my head; 1972 was the first edition; - I did say "& revised editions (and other titles)" - are quite up-to-date :)

[DNA]

This will be my last post on the matter, so as not to de-rail this thread intent of focussing ONLY on the age of consent. My input is that the age of consent CANNOT be considered in isolation from Monarch programming and the sexualisation of children through mass media.

My ears are open to your complaint here, and I've familiarized myself with the stories of those who have come forward detailing what has happened to them in so far as what amounts to torture and sexual torture at that through the monarch program.

I do not understand how the age of consent is related to the act of sexualizing the minds of children through television. From what I see the sexualizing of children through television is for the most part encouraging the young to preoccupy themselves with sexual thoughts and acts with others closer to their own age. For what we see is that beauty is often made synonymous with youth.

I sometimes think we need a view of what is going on with a historical lens.
Historically speaking, rape and the rape of children has always been a crime that was never pursued for means of adjudication.
Rapists and pedophiles have pretty much had their way historically speaking.
I would say our lifetimes would be the first instance of seeing a law or government attempt to actually do something about this.
So it makes sense to me that there would be awkward processes and failed first and second attempts at getting this right.


I suppose one may ask, "is there an attempt to get this right" or "is this just more obfuscation by the Government in an attempt to lead us astray"?
I honestly think this is an actual attempt at getting this right in so far as my own take.
I look at countries with little or no advancement in female rights, and these are countries where there are no protections put in place for women and or children.
I think the advancement of women in the work place and in law especially has helped to introduce such measures into our society.
I feel the more women we have in advanced positions of leadership, the better (I exclude Hillary from this of course).
The more we look around at the world where countries are not getting it right we can almost make a correlation with what they are not doing in terms of protecting women and children from sexual predators and the suppression of women, women's rights and the opportunity for women to advance into positions of power in that Government.
I think Mike is alluding to the confusion and imperfect nature of the law as it is presently outlined, and I think he is correct for the most part, but I do think there should be an age of consent that protects minors from adults who would pursue such minors if there was nothing to prevent this.
For me the solution is more women in "real" positions of power.