When the ego takes over

[jimrich]

Do you know it when your ego has taken over and is running your life? If you do know, what do you do about it?
I recently looked back over some guru events that have long mystified me and can now see that several gurus from my past DID NOT KNOW when their egos had overwhelmed them and began running things.
I always thought that enlightened or awakened folks had NO EGOS anymore.
This is because of writings about Ramana Maharshi which state that he "lost" his ego upon his awakening and Tony Parsons claims that his 'me' died many years ago.
Well, I have a tape in which Balsekar obviously loses it and his ego takes over when a Seeker poses an irritating question and on another tape, Eli-Jaxson becomes ABUSIVELY egotistical with several Seekers who disappoint or upset him.
When I hand washed some undergarments for my 1st guru, I accidentally died his white briefs pink (mixed whites with reds) so his EGO flipped out to the max!
Another guru admitted to me that "something in me" makes him say the things he says and now I can see that my ego was triggering his ego.
Ramana once mentioned that his ego often comes up, he "sees through" it and it doesn't "harm" him so, I guess anyone, including so-called enlightened folks can still have an active ego.
Perhaps it's all about how one deals with their ego that matters and these gurus seem to have the ability to let their egos go and get back to Reality whereas the Seekers might never even know that their ego has taken them over again and be stuck in and as the ego for a very long time.
One guru told me, "When Pride (his name for my ego) gets you down, don't just lay there in defeat - get up and get going again!"
It's taken a long time to make that teaching work but it's working now, if and when I notice that my ego has taken over again (which is quite often!).
For me, the point is to notice that my ego is active and then ask my self if I am the ego?
It usually backs down right away if and when I notice it.
Do you know when your ego is up and running your life? How do you deal with your ego once you know it's there? Are you an ego? :sherlock:

[sandy]

The minute I am upset I check my ego needs immediately and 9 times out of 10 it is the ego squawking!! LOL

[raff]

Ego as I understand it self interest. I have to eat and live so as long as that is necessary I will have an ego.
Even if I was living in a community I would still wash my smalls so perhaps your ex guru deserved his briefs going pink lol
And no enlightenment is worth that much indignity for me to do something which should be ones own responsibility, how ignominious.

[jimrich]

The minute I am upset I check my ego needs immediately and 9 times out of 10 it is the ego squawking!! LOL

Then what? What happens when you notice your ego is squawking? Assuming your ego bows out and leaves the scene, what is left there? Who are you WITHOUT a squawking ego? Can you describe your self when no ego is in or around you?
Thanks, Sandy.
:) jim

[Rich]

Do you know it when your ego has taken over and is running your life? If you do know, what do you do about it?


Yes, because it hurts, I will know if I am honest with myself. We cannot believe that we are separate from God and not feel pain. However we have gotten so used to pain that we might think it is normal. So we may not be honest enough for it at times.
My definition of Ego: the belief of being something we are not, it is the self created identity that is to replace our true being.

Great questions jimrich.

[greybeard]

The various sages had entirely different personalities
Nisargadatta had a ferocious, in your face, tough love personality and challenged your concepts in order to move you out of illusion to realizethe TrueSelf which you already are.
Ramana Maharshi was totally different yet expressed strong dislike of waste.

Enlightenment can be lost.
The Grace of the Absolute gives takes away.
Regardless your True self and everything else is the Absolute---There is no where that God is not. There is no one that God is not.

The challenge is to get rid of the thought that you are the doer.

God wrote the play
God directs the play
God is the actor in the play
God is the witness of the play.

God gave you an ego let him remove it.

Of myself I do nothing---- The person (me) does not have the spiritual power to transcend ego--Divine help needs to be sought with humility.

Chris

[TraineeHuman]

The ego is at root concerned with survival, with keeping us safe and physically alive. The ego is the part of us that watches out for traffic that might be coming out of nowhere when we are crossing the road, for instance. It's also constantly watching out for our social survival, with whether we are making a favorable impression and so on. All good and necessary.

Where the ego becomes a problem, of course, is when it seeks to take over or be our total consciousness. It isn't capable of doing this adequately, of course, but it's still constantly aspiring to do so and desperately wants to do so unless we educate it and master it in the right way. But as long as and while we have any unhappiness inside us, the ego takes that as its cue to come charging in to try to rescue us, even though it's always out of its depth there. One of the problems here is that the ego is the very part of us that's obsessed with desires, and desires (and the need for satisfaction) are what's at the root of all our unhappiness.

The ego is rather like our legs. We need our legs. We don't want to chop them off or maim or chain or weaken them. But it's as if our legs believed they were in charge of everything. But, in this analogy, they believe this because we give them the power. Because we're stuck in a kind of one-track mind (and heart) that can't stop thinking of (and feeling about) everything in terms of using our legs. Sometimes, though, our legs can be idle, and at rest, and it's all perfectly fine. We just need to get rid of that leg fetish.

[greybeard]

There are so many definitions of what ego is.
One I like is "Identification with the story of me"
Some say it is a separation device maintaining the illusion of a separate self.
It could come under "impermanence" it does not seem to be operating all the time.

Non duality teachers tend to say that it has to be transcended in order for Self realization to happen.
Should this be the case its similar to the concept that the me no longer exists then. Consciousness is then no longer personal.
Then he body survives life regardless, until it does not.

I dont know for sure what is True.

Chris

[Anchor]

Do you know when your ego is up and running your life? How do you deal with your ego once you know it's there? Are you an ego? :sherlock:

Same as you I think. When I forget it is there, it usurps power! Then later on when I finally get out of that space and see the little bugger up to its tricks I get to wrestle control back.

[dim]

And then we discover there is a backdoor
right about when we thought we had the little trickster in our hands
but it had already come back in through that hidden backdoor
disguised as the True One, pretending that he had got the Ego.
We learned is called the Super Ego, sitting on a throne judging the Ego,
keeping an eye on it, making sure isn't coming back, or better yet arrest It right in the action.

A thief dressed as the policeman, went about pretending chasing himself.
Making posts about it.

But even this is good. Part of the progress.

[jimrich]

Here's a few links to what I believe are the most useful and significant efforts to understand and work with the ego as presented by Hal and Sidra Stone in their ground breaking work on the Sub-personalities such as: the Critic, the Pusher, the Inner Child, the Perfectionist, the Controller, the Aware Ego and many more versions and variations of our ego/personality that is rarely seen anywhere else - least of all in Spiritual circles.
Enjoy.......
Perhaps the best one of all......
hizRTWkG184
http://delos-inc.com/reading-stone.htm
https://www.voicedialogue.com/aware-ego/
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/worry-wise/201207/say-goodbye-your-inner-perfectionist
http://www.lifetraininginstitute.com.au/the-aware-ego-process/

If you begin examining and understanding your ego or egos, you might begin to have a freer and happier life as you come to recognize which ego is operating at any given time.
My wife and i often laughed when we realized that our Critic was up or our Perfectionist was running things, etc. It made it easier to deal with them and life becomes a kind of game instead of a blind stumbling along with our ego(s) in control of us. We got to the point where we would just look at each other without even needing to NAME the Sub-personality who was trying to take over.
It becomes both funny and relaxing to have a handle on your ego(s) rather them having you buy the throat or short-hairs!

[Sueanne47]

I have this fight going on in my body all the time between my head & gut feeling :argue: ..but they are always agreeable on food :pop2:

[neutronstar]

From my understanding, almost everyone on this planet lives threw their ego. If you are free of ego you are in a state of bliss and feel a oneness with all there is. Eckhart Tolle who talks extensively on the subject, says when he freed himself of his ego he sat on park benches for two years in a state of bliss, but then he developed a new ego, one of a spiritual teacher.

The voice in the head, the thinker. That's the ego. Your real self is the silent observer. Most people can never stop thinking long enough to connect with your real self. That is the true purpose of meditation. To quiet the mind.

I don't really know who these gurus are you are talking about, but my opinion of gurus are people with really big egos that want to think they are enlightened.

[neutronstar]

And then we discover there is a backdoor
right about when we thought we had the little trickster in our hands
but it had already come back in through that hidden backdoor
disguised as the True One, pretending that he had got the Ego.
We learned is called the Super Ego, sitting on a throne judging the Ego,
keeping an eye on it, making sure isn't coming back, or better yet arrest It right in the action.

A thief dressed as the policeman, went about pretending chasing himself.
Making posts about it.

But even this is good. Part of the progress.

I could have said it better myself.

[sandy]

Then what? What happens when you notice your ego is squawking? Assuming your ego bows out and leaves the scene, what is left there? Who are you WITHOUT a squawking ego? Can you describe your self when no ego is in or around you?





Hi jim..............all I can come up with is stillness! a sense of quiet and peace. with No self description, just awareness**

[greybeard]

Pain body the ego in extreme
Eckhart Tolle was a big move forward for me.through his book "The Power of Now"
The advice on watching silently and a lot more came from that book.
After AA had done as much as it could for me I qualified as a Hypnotherapist, NLP and in Psychotherapy first for my own benefit to understand about the mind and motivations.
This led me to the Work of the Late Dr David Hawkins who moved Psychiatry forward from the stoneage--he had the largest practice in America before Enlightenment happened. If anyone knew about ego and enlightenment he did.
Power vs Force/The hidden Determinates of Human Behavior"" by him is an eye opener.
Anyway these are steps I took to learn how to still the "Monkey mind" with some success.

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/19795.Power_vs_Force

Chris

[jimrich]

Then what? What happens when you notice your ego is squawking? Assuming your ego bows out and leaves the scene, what is left there? Who are you WITHOUT a squawking ego? Can you describe your self when no ego is in or around you?

Hi jim..............all I can come up with is stillness! a sense of quiet and peace. with No self description, just awareness**
Thanks, Sandy. That's pretty much what I feel when my troubled ego leaves me or I leave it. I wish it would last a little longer but I'm beginning to understand how to get out of my ego when it tries to take over. I just love that feeling of peace when my ego is absent - even for a few seconds.
They say we are completely without an ego in deep sleep. Another sage encourages us to go into the Awareness that precedes our 'I' thought (ego) and I find that to be an effective method of getting out of my ego and back into peace or stillness.
He's over here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=97B5opd39-M
Peace, Sandy. :heart:

[jimrich]

Eckhart Tolle who talks extensively on the subject, says when he freed himself of his ego he sat on park benches for two years in a state of bliss, but then he developed a new ego, one of a spiritual teacher.
And apparently a healthier ego than the unhealthy one he used to have. We can have an ego or it can have us. The trick is to have a HEALTHY ego but most of us developed an unhealthy ego to match the unhealthy ones all around us in early childhood.


The voice in the head, the thinker. That's the ego.
That's only an aspect of the ego. A healthy ego can speak and think just not in consistently destructive ways.


Your real self is the silent observer.
And is also the doer or actor but sometimes the "real self" mysteriously becomes the ego.


Most people can never stop thinking long enough to connect with your real self. That is the true purpose of meditation. To quiet the mind.
Thinking and the "mind" are not a problem. Your identity AS an ego and not your true/real self is the problem.
So long as you believe you are just a little, limited, needy, fearful person/ego, that some day will DIE, you cannot know who/what you truly are (Infinite Being) and you (as an ego) will be unhappy and miserable until the end of your days (as an ego).


I don't really know who these gurus are you are talking about, but my opinion of gurus are people with really big egos that want to think they are enlightened.
In a sense, they are "enlightened" but, some of them (like Mooji) occasionally allow their egos to overwhelm them - just like unenlightened folks frequently do. However, enlightened folks MIGHT be able to spot their own egos in action and return to their real identity faster than unenlightened folks.
Today, I recalled a certain guru who became really upset with me but soon calmed down and returned to common sense whilst I did not notice it happening since my own ego was so upset by the guru's egoic outburst.
I wish I'd known back then what I know now 'cos I'd have called the guru's ego on the egoic OUTBURSTS!
Enlightened egos often get away with cruel and stupid offenses because their victims are lost in their unenlightened egos and don't realize the so-called guru is being EGOTISTICAL and FOOLISH! :raining:

[tuku]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf6CLSjnUNA

[neutronstar]

Pain body the ego in extreme
Eckhart Tolle was a big move forward for me.through his book "The Power of Now"
The advice on watching silently and a lot more came from that book.
After AA had done as much as it could for me I qualified as a Hypnotherapist, NLP and in Psychotherapy first for my own benefit to understand about the mind and motivations.
This led me to the Work of the Late Dr David Hawkins who moved Psychiatry forward from the stoneage--he had the largest practice in America before Enlightenment happened. If anyone knew about ego and enlightenment he did.
Power vs Force/The hidden Determinates of Human Behavior"" by him is an eye opener.
Anyway these are steps I took to learn how to still the "Monkey mind" with some success.

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/19795.Power_vs_Force

Chris

I use to have a nasty pain body. Meditation has helped to get rid of it.

[tuku]

any chance of gettin rid of mine for us ...;)

[jimrich]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf6CLSjnUNA
He's a colorful man but I find him to be more confusing than informative or even helpful. His concepts of the ego are good enough but something is missing in his presentations which I feel he covers up with humor. I can laugh at what he says and how he says it but he is not all that "wise" IMO.
I like his "style" but honestly don't get much from his messages and I've tried to watch a few of his other videos so I guess it comes down to one's personal taste and connections. Perhaps if I watch him a few more times I can explain what bothers me about his messages or style but for now, he really does not turn me on.

[tuku]

what about this man ?? thomas campbell ,have you listened to any of his talks?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvmSVx_r3DM

[neutronstar]

I discovered Tom Campbell about 10 years ago. I read "Journey's out of the body" by Robert Monroe when I was in high school but I never knew that Tom helped Robert start the Monroe Institute. I have listened to a lot of his videos.

[jimrich]

what about this man ?? thomas campbell ,have you listened to any of his talks? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvmSVx_r3DM
Way to complicated for me. "The ego" need not be so complicated or messy. I'll stick with Mooji or Rupert Spira. ;)

[greybeard]

This might be helpful Jim
Dissolving the Ego, Realizing the Self: Contemplations from the Teachings of Dr David R. Hawkins
How does one traverse the spiritual landscape to move beyond suffering to experience the peace and love of God, to transcend illusion and realize the state of enlightenment? In this collection of inspiring passages from David R. Hawkins's work, the reader is reminded of the illusory nature of the personal self (identification of the ego/mind) and the direct pathways to transcend the ego/mind's trappings. Once we have moved beyond these divisions, many of the illusions that surround us collapse. David R. Hawkins has been one of the leading voices of New Thought for decades and this book is an excellent selection of his thoughts on a key subject.

This pocket edition is designed especially for today's spiritual student on the go, to inspire contemplation and reflection in whatever environment one finds oneself. Dissolving the Ego, Realizing the Self is a reliable companion on the aspirant's quest toward higher truth.

Its a paperback can be found on Amazon

Chris

[greybeard]

There is only awareness Mooji

While it is a guided meditation there is a lot that is helpful therein

Chris


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W1NxOIvMDk

[jimrich]

This morning I (this) had a few runaway egoic episodes but I just stop and remind myself that I am the Self or Presence and the offending ego dissolves ASAP. In my case, the ego pops back up right away so I just go on reminding and remembering that I AM THE SELF ~ Ramana Maharshi..........or Presence ~ John Wheeler ..... and soon the ego backs down for a little longer. I do not struggle with, ignore nor placate my ego - I simply remind myself of my Real Identity as Awareness, Life, Love, Self, Consciousness, Being, Reality, Presence, The All, god, Spirit or whatever the real identity is - but not as the egoic personality I've always been. Thanks to Ramana and John Wheeler, it is clear to me that my "identity" is absolutely NOT that of an egoic little person. I am the Self - which encompasses and includes this little person called Jim and the entire cosmos! I am the Cosmos. I am all-that-there-is! ....... AND SO ARE YOU, my friends! :Party:

[tuku]

yea i love mooji x

[AutumnW]

I felt completely free of ego last time I smoked pot. I seemed to experience a commensurate inability to prioritize, felt aggression aimed at me from EVERYWHERE and I was all alone in a small room. In short, I am glad it only lasted a couple of hours, because it seemed to be the dark flip side of being without ego. My ego...I think I'll keep it!

[Rich]

The definition what ego is seems to vary a lot.

How about this: The thought of being something other than what I am.


From dictionary.com:


1. the “I” or self of any person; a person as thinking, feeling, and willing, and distinguishing itself from the selves of others and from objects of its thought.
2. Psychoanalysis. the part of the psychic apparatus that experiences and reacts to the outside world and thus mediates between the primitive drives of the id and the demands of the social and physical environment.
3. egotism; conceit; self-importance:
Her ego becomes more unbearable each day.
4. self-esteem or self-image; feelings:
Your criticism wounded his ego.
5. (often initial capital letter) Philosophy.

a. the enduring and conscious element that knows experience.
b. Scholasticism. the complete person comprising both body and soul.

6.Ethnology. a person who serves as the central reference point in the study of organizational and kinship relationships.


A Course in Miracles – Workbook – 12. What Is the Ego?

12.1. The ego is idolatry; the sign of limited and separated self, born in a body, doomed to suffer and to end its life in death. 2 It is the "will" that sees the Will of God as enemy, and takes a form in which it is denied. 3 The ego is the "proof" that strength is weak and love is fearful, life is really death, and what opposes God alone is true.

12.2. The ego is insane. 2 In fear it stands beyond the Everywhere, apart from All, in separation from the Infinite. 3 In its insanity it thinks it has become a victor over God Himself. 4 And in its terrible autonomy it "sees" the Will of God has been destroyed. 5 It dreams of punishment, and trembles at the figures in its dreams; its enemies, who seek to murder it before it can ensure its safety by attacking them.

12.3. The Son of God is egoless. 2 What can he know of madness and the death of God, when he abides in Him? 3 What can he know of sorrow and of suffering, when he lives in eternal joy? 4 What can he know of fear and punishment, of sin and guilt, of hatred and attack, when all there is surrounding him is everlasting peace, forever conflict-free and undisturbed, in deepest silence and tranquility?

12.4. To know reality is not to see the ego and its thoughts, its works, its acts, its laws and its beliefs, its dreams, its hopes, its plans for its salvation, and the cost belief in it entails. 2 In suffering, the price for faith in it is so immense that crucifixion of the Son of God is offered daily at its darkened shrine, and blood must flow before the altar where its sickly followers prepare to die.

12.5. Yet will one lily of forgiveness change the darkness into light; the altar to illusions to the shrine of Life Itself. 2 And peace will be restored forever to the holy minds which God created as His Son, His dwelling place, His joy, His love, completely His, completely one with Him.

[greybeard]

Yes many definitions of ego though in reality it is just a thought- that we can believe is us-a few more definitions.

Its a separation device.
Its identification with the story of me.
Its "Look what happened to me"

If I remember correctly the course (ACIM) says
"Specialness is the the last resort of the ego"

I am unique and special in my misery--joy--unhappiness---My misery was the worst , because it happened to me.
There is no one like me.

Its all about self identification--self referral.
If I appear to listen to someone else's story its so I can tell you all about me.
If I appear to agree with you, its because you confirm my own belief, as in saying "Exactly" implying you got it right.-, you agree with me, therefore I am right.
Ego need reassurance propping up---strangely it also very much needs enemies--it feels very strong putting others down

Obviously you can be a good listener, communicator, sympathetic, without any ego involvement.

Who says that the ego is necessary--why ego ofcourse--it would have you believe that you cant do without it.

"Self" looks after you, without you being aware of it. That is your true Self does. It does not go on vacation ,it is always there.
It does not give you a hard time--it loves you unconditionally.
Chris

[AutumnW]

Greybeard,

Oh...THAT ego. Me, me, me, me. Identifying with the aspect of self that projects the individual into the world and then overcompensating. That's no fun.:(

[jimrich]

It's both strange and yet interesting to see just how I, Reality, created, in early childhood, and now maintain this 'me' or ego that somehow seems to come from out of nowhere, like an unwanted relative, dropping by at mysterious times. Now that I know my ego was made by, for and OF me, Reality, I feel a little bit more in control of my ego's behavior.
Yesterday, I (Reality) was at a gig and suddenly noticed my nasty little ego negatively judging the clarinet player so I just told my mean little ego to "Knock it off!" and it was gone right away BUT then reappears over and over (as I, Reality, unwittingly re-enter and become it!). For now, I have to keep noticing when and how I become an ego and then back out of it or drop it. It's a very mysterious process but, since I now know that I am the ego, whenever it appears, I can also refuse to be it or stop being it when I unconsciously become it.
I, Reality, am also seeing, for the first time, that all there is, is Reality or the Self, so everything and anything, including an ego, is put here by, for and OF me - Life or the Absolute. It might be fun to finally understand exactly how and why I create all of this stuff in this play of Life!
Happy trails...... :heart:

[Rich]

well jimrich we think we become the ego but we don't really, it's an illusion.
the ego isn't really part of us because ego means suffering and that's not our true being, not how we have been created.

[Anchor]

well jimrich we think we become the ego but we don't really, it's an illusion.
the ego isn't really part of us because ego means suffering and that's not our true being, not how we have been created.

What do you mean "become the ego"?

I agree with the theory that this experience we are having is an illusion (in the sense of not "real").

However, even if theoretically correct it doesn't actually help you knowing that really except with perhaps perspective. The illusion is so good you can't escape it while alive, so you may as well deal with it as if it is real, because to your body and lower mind it is completely real.

So while we are in this game/illusion/stage play - how do we deal with our tendency to identify with and function from the ego?

What is it in us that does that?

It seems that the real choice we have is to identify or not identify with the ego. Can we shift our perception away from the ego's point of view and see the ego for what it is - an integral part of our avatar in this stage-play that we must, for the purposes of that stage play, see as real, (even though, you know, perhaps, in theory, it is just all an illusion!).

Love from

Anchor's ego.

[greybeard]

Mooji ♥ The Only Remedy for Suffering on the Planet (Complete)


If you go to the 18 minute mark you will find Mooji beginning to talk about ego--apart from other statements he says "The ego is only an idea believed in"



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPI0Wkvqp5A

I agree that we have to deal with what we find here in our "personal" life
A good place to start is the so called witness state where we are fully aware of what we say and do and in time can train the ego so to speak.

Seems to me there are stages of uncovering our true self as defined by mystics like Mooji

I never expect anyone to agree with me, im not an authority on anything, I just post what I find interesting and helpful to me most times.

Chris

[jimrich]

What do you mean "become the ego"?
In psychology/therapy, I, Reality, was taught to examine my feelings (and thoughts) about my behaviors, beliefs and thoughts so my view of MY ego is based on my own experiences of it and NOT on abstract theories. The other thing I learned in therapy is to watch out for semantics or word definitions, especially in communications like at sharing meetings and on the internet so.......
"become the ego" may be about using the wrong or less effective word ~ "become". In my personal experience, so far, when my ego appears, as it often does, I notice that I, Reality seem to become, enter or project an ego into existence and then I, Reality, begin acting egotistical! I might act in a healthy way or an unhealthy way (usually unhealthy). As an ego or small, limited, self-centered person/'me' (notice how tricky semantics can get!), I might say and do "normal", acceptable things BUT, generally, I will be prone to: defensive, jealous, suspicious, offensive, belligerent, ass-kissing, phony, overbearing, timid, door-mating, wild driving, CURSING, offending and a huge array of UNHEALTHY behaviors while I am completely lost in and convinced that I am just: Jim - the ego! This is the least I can say about becoming or BELIEVING that I'm the ego which I rarely notice when I, Reality, am lost in or as an egoic entity.
I deliberately label my self as Reality because it has more meaning for me than labels like: the Self, Awareness, Consciousness, the Absolute, god, Me, This, Divinity, All-that-there-is, Divine Being, Infinity, etc. and/or a few 1000 other labels that apply to the Indescribale.
So my experience is that I, Reality, unwittingly or out of mindless habit enter or actually become the ego and rarely notice it's happened until I step in my own do-doo and become red-faced embarrassed or ANGRY.
While I'm happy and performing well, it's OK to be the ego and I do believe there is such a thing as a healthy ego BUT, the ego can become very unhealthy and destructive in a heart-beat when a certain "trigger" appears such as: my 1st wife, being insulted, threatened, humiliated (you smell bad!), ignored, laughed AT (Oh Jim, you're such a fool!), and a huge group of other triggers that will cause me, the ego, to suddenly turn sour!
If I can go into a situation as me, Reality, and stay as Reality, none of these egoic reactions occur NO MATTER what triggers appear there. BUT, due to a nasty childhood and some other conditioning/programming, I find it nearly impossible, for now, to go anywhere or do anything simply as the Real me and my damned ego pops up way too much. I say "pops up" because that is how it feels even though I now know that I, Reality, project and then take up residency in and as an egoic entity after-which, things can get pretty nasty!


I agree with the theory that this experience we are having is an illusion (in the sense of not "real").
I was taught to look at life and examine myself WITHOUT a lot of theories and concepts so, real or unreal has very little meaning to me these days whereas FEELINGS are very significant.


However, even if theoretically correct it doesn't actually help you knowing that really except with perhaps perspective.
And my current "perspective" is = Who is feeling or doing such and such, me or my ego?
Am I living from the perspective of Reality or from the perspective of an ego? Is my PERSPECTIVE from Reality's eyes or the ego's eyes?


The illusion is so good you can't escape it while alive, so you may as well deal with it as if it is real, because to your body and lower mind it is completely real.
For me, this is all real and the basic question of who/what am I? is all that matters, illusion or not. I am either Real or a false egoic entity - which does not even exist when looked for. The "illusion" is that I've somehow believed in my ego and once I'm back out of this false, non-existent self, there is NO illusion - for me, anyway.


So while we are in this game/illusion/stage play - how do we deal with our tendency to identify with and function from the ego?
I won't try to address any "we" but, I, Reality, do the best I can to notice when and how I become an egoic entity (Jim) and then do the best I can to GET OUT OF IT and go on living in what you call "this game/illusion/stage play" as a real, authentic, genuine, solid, sensible, aware ME. The play and the (egoic) players do not have to change or do/be any different. I need to change and become REAL or happy whist in the play. If this helps or affects others for the good - good. But I am not currently bent of "fixing" anyone other than me, plus, I don't see anything wrong (or right) with this stage play. It's all going exactly where Reality wants it to go even if the egos/mes think and feel otherwise.


What is it in us that does that?
Again, I won't speak for any "us" but I, Reality, was taught to notice how and when I am TEMPTED to enter and become an egoic personal entity so all I can say is that I get hypnotized by the cosmic play and want to get into the adventures of life and living....the thrills, sex, danger, fights, dances, eating, drinking, swimming, sky-diving, showing off my body, sax-playing, singing, stardom, being IMPORTANT!, magic, praise, applause, excitement, fear, terror, pain, injury, humiliation, abuse, threat of death and then finally DEATH itself.... only to wake up on the other side (as spirit) all happy and comfortable again and then turn right around and get back into the stage-play once more with a different body AND EGO this time via what is called "reincarnation" - WHAT A PLAY!!!!


It seems that the real choice we have is to identify or not identify with the ego.
For me (I'm not a "we"), that is the basic choice and sometimes I make the right choice by staying Real and NOT falling into or projecting an egoic self. I can be the Self or the self in any given situation or drama. My real identity is Reality but sometimes I take my self to be an ego (which does not even exist!).


Can we shift our perception away from the ego's point of view and see the ego for what it is - an integral part of our avatar in this stage-play that we must, for the purposes of that stage play, see as real, (even though, you know, perhaps, in theory, it is just all an illusion!).
Again, I don't speak FOR any "we" but, I, Reality, shift my perceptions away from the ego as much as possible (it's still hard to do) and try to be in this stage-play as a Real entity rather than as a false and problematic ego which then seems to make the play work better - for me at least.
It's an "illusion" only in the sense that behind all of the action, 'egos' and objects there stands a Real Being or Energy BUT, that Real Being IS everything that is, so, this makes all that there is and is happening, in the Play, REAL.
I believe calling the visible cosmos an "illusion" was a semantics trick to help Reality stop believing in It's own projections and look for It's real self BEFORE the projections happen. "I am" is prior to "I am this and/or that".
IMO, all there is, is Reality so, that is why I see myself BECOMING the ego because I am the ego and everything else. The ego is NOT some independent, separate, unique entity, like a scare-crow, that comes and goes on it's own - and there is no such thing as an illusion - it's all ME. I call some things "illusions" to notice the difference between me and ME - imagination and Reality, dreaming and Knowing, fiction and fact.
And finally, this is all about semantics and the mind's effort to say something meaningful and useful between you and I and maybe others as well but, each of us will have to realize and see what is real and true FOR OUR SELF which is why most teachings are called "Pointers" ~ to point a Seeker or even the teacher in a favorable direction.
IMO, the most useful pointer is: Who/what am I?, Who/what is this "we"/"us"? Who/what is this ego? What is an illusion? What is a "stage-play"? Who/what: sees, hears, smells, feels, touches, senses, believes, imagines, knows, etc.? Who are you?
Start with 'I', not: 'we', 'us', 'you', they, those, them, it, one - just start with 'I' and then go BEHIND this 'I'! What is HERE before or behind the 'I'?
Here's a hint ..... you are here! ..... The REAL you!
:heart:

[AutumnW]

Jimrich,

I was in intense therapy, four hours a week, for 3 years, starting about 7 years ago. As a young child I was beaten by my father, teased or ignored. My mother told me decades later, how alarmed she was by my father's behavior and personality.

But at the time, she thought, as a parent, you couldn't let your kids see that. You had to show a "united front" or children would triangulate. That makes sense if you have a normal mate -- but my father was crazy.

By the time I was a teen I was so lost and confused I was perfect prey for predators. A rape, attempted murder and three suicide attempts later, I managed to pull myself together. It must have been divine intervention!

Anyway, yes to all you are saying. I so wanted to change for my own sake and the sake of those close to me. I had managed against all odds to survive but I was filled with fear and dread and a lot of underlying anger. I could go from calm rational to triggered and angry very quickly. I never freaked out or attacked anybody or anything crazy, I would just get super irritable.

I hope this isn't "too much information". I just wanted to share how bad things can be but through the power of the will, working with guardian angels or guides (I think??) a person CAN overcome their past, if they address it properly, as you did. And I think I have come a long way, too.

[greybeard]

Autumn W
Thanks for your courage in sharing.

I had a Hypnotheray, Psychotherapist, N.L.P. Practice and also used Bio-energy therapy.

All clients were unique and treated as such--I did not like labels--people tended to get stuck in them.
For some Hypnosis was very powerful and achieved the results

There is nothing but energy in movement (atoms) ant that includes feelings.
That where Bio-energy comes in.
It works on the chakras, energy field of the body and where an other therapy was perhaps only partially successful the bio-energy therapy removed/ resolved the condition--be it mental emotional or physical.

To give you an example--I had a young client She said she was clinically depressed--three sessions and it was gone.

I was trained by Michael D'Alton he now practices in Canada-- an amazing "therapist."
Obviously what you are doing is working---for anyone interested in energy therapy this is Michaels web site below.

Best wishes
Chris

http://www.daltonsbio.com/

Ps if you visit the site be sure to watch the videos on the right hand side.

[greybeard]

Jimrich,

I was in intense therapy, four hours a week, for 3 years, starting about 7 years ago. As a young child I was beaten by my father, teased or ignored. My mother told me decades later, how alarmed she was by my father's behavior and personality.

But at the time, she thought, as a parent, you couldn't let your kids see that. You had to show a "united front" or children would triangulate. That makes sense if you have a normal mate -- but my father was crazy.

By the time I was a teen I was so lost and confused I was perfect prey for predators. A rape, attempted murder and three suicide attempts later, I managed to pull myself together. It must have been divine intervention!

Anyway, yes to all you are saying. I so wanted to change for my own sake and the sake of those close to me. I had managed against all odds to survive but I was filled with fear and dread and a lot of underlying anger. I could go from calm rational to triggered and angry very quickly. I never freaked out or attacked anybody or anything crazy, I would just get super irritable.

I hope this isn't "too much information". I just wanted to share how bad things can be but through the power of the will, working with guardian angels or guides (I think??) a person CAN overcome their past, if they address it properly, as you did. And I think I have come a long way, too.

AutumnW

I highlighted what also worked for me.
Apart from being a suicidal wreck from Alcoholism which years of going To AA and 9 month in a Psychiatric hospital took me to being a recovering alcoholic--Im fine but I know what one drink would do. I nearly died after bursting my spleen in a sledging accident and two separate incidents years apart where I was very close to drowning.
"
I f I was to name one thing that brought about change it is asking The Divine for help and surrendering to" That and gratitude---I know now that there is no separation, but only One, I still pray with gratitude every day for my sobriety.

Grace is always available every prayer answered---a string of coincidences got me into AA--every positive event, life changing , came about that way.
I listened to what was offered to me through others and that was part of my saving Grace.

Chris

[jimrich]

I was in intense therapy, four hours a week, for 3 years, starting about 7 years ago. As a young child I was beaten by my father, teased or ignored. My mother told me decades later, how alarmed she was by my father's behavior and personality.
It took me a long time to finally realize what I felt about our saintly, quiet, loving and Christian mom but, thanks to a dective video when the detective ask the mother of a savagely beaten kid, "Did you ever defend your son?" and the woman just went silent, I almost fell out of my recliner when the light went off in my head!!! Our mom NEVER stood up for either of us boys UNTIL dad's insanity got TO HER! She somehow found the courage to tell him to "knock it off' when something bother her but dad could beat the crap out of his boys all day long and she just quietly hid out in the other room without a peep! After that "realization" I wanted to go over to her place and knock her bock off but she was dead and gone by then! The anger and rage I always thought belonged to my abusive, terrifying dad suddenly came back up and in her direction, where it truly belonged. So now, I had to do some more "anger work" on my cowardly mom!


But at the time, she thought, as a parent, you couldn't let your kids see that. You had to show a "united front" or children would triangulate.
LOL, that would have been my mom's hidden excuse for her own COWARDICE and selfishness because our father was the only "daddy" she ever had (her dad was absent in the military during most of her childhood) and she sure wasn't going to let any little brats, like her kids, come between her and her cherished DADDY now that she finally got one!


By the time I was a teen I was so lost and confused I was perfect prey for predators. A rape, attempted murder and three suicide attempts later, I managed to pull myself together. It must have been divine intervention!
I feel very happy that it all turned out better for you.:muscle: Bless you! :heart:


Anyway, yes to all you are saying. I so wanted to change for my own sake and the sake of those close to me. I had managed against all odds to survive but I was filled with fear and dread and a lot of underlying anger. I could go from calm rational to triggered and angry very quickly. I never freaked out or attacked anybody or anything crazy, I would just get super irritable.
That's the dire consequences of early trauma and repressed feelings which leave a person vulnerable to sudden explosions (PTSD) whenever triggered and everyone just scratches their head because they don't understand it and are not going to even try. They FEAR your feelings might trigger their own bottled up feelings and then they might have to deal with their own hidden, inner pains!


I hope this isn't "too much information". I just wanted to share how bad things can be but through the power of the will, working with guardian angels or guides (I think??) a person CAN overcome their past, if they address it properly, as you did. And I think I have come a long way, too.
LOL, after 100s of sharing meetings, even in incest groups, nothing is "too much information" for me!
I loudly applaud your healing and process to getting over a rotten past. Many folks do not understand nor like any of this "therapy" stuff but it has sure made a huge, positive difference in my life and vastly contributes to whatever I am currently learning in Spiritual circles.
Bless you,
jim:heart:

[jimrich]

I listened to what was offered to me through others and that was part of my saving Grace.
Chris

Thank god for sharing meetings! Those survivors SAVED me! :cake:

[AutumnW]

Jimrich,

I was in intense therapy, four hours a week, for 3 years, starting about 7 years ago. As a young child I was beaten by my father, teased or ignored. My mother told me decades later, how alarmed she was by my father's behavior and personality.

But at the time, she thought, as a parent, you couldn't let your kids see that. You had to show a "united front" or children would triangulate. That makes sense if you have a normal mate -- but my father was crazy.

By the time I was a teen I was so lost and confused I was perfect prey for predators. A rape, attempted murder and three suicide attempts later, I managed to pull myself together. It must have been divine intervention!

Anyway, yes to all you are saying. I so wanted to change for my own sake and the sake of those close to me. I had managed against all odds to survive but I was filled with fear and dread and a lot of underlying anger. I could go from calm rational to triggered and angry very quickly. I never freaked out or attacked anybody or anything crazy, I would just get super irritable.

I hope this isn't "too much information". I just wanted to share how bad things can be but through the power of the will, working with guardian angels or guides (I think??) a person CAN overcome their past, if they address it properly, as you did. And I think I have come a long way, too.

AutumnW

I highlighted what also worked for me.
Apart from being a suicidal wreck from Alcoholism which years of going To AA and 9 month in a Psychiatric hospital took me to being a recovering alcoholic--Im fine but I know what one drink would do. I nearly died after bursting my spleen in a sledging accident and two separate incidents years apart where I was very close to drowning.
"
I f I was to name one thing that brought about change it is asking The Divine for help and surrendering to" That and gratitude---I know now that there is no separation, but only One, I still pray with gratitude every day for my sobriety.

Grace is always available every prayer answered---a string of coincidences got me into AA--every positive event, life changing , came about that way.
I listened to what was offered to me through others and that was part of my saving Grace.

Chris

I have had such amazing guidance and literal delivery from evil, Chris, I know I have invisible means of support -- and I don't mean panty hose.

9months in a psych ward? That's where so many shamanistic personalities end up, I think. It's a tough road. My best to you and a huge hug!

[AutumnW]

I listened to what was offered to me through others and that was part of my saving Grace.
Chris

Thank god for sharing meetings! Those survivors SAVED me! :cake:

Very happy for you! Sounds like you went through a kind of torture. I think that men used to have a much harder time than women, in this regard. Women have always been allowed to open up to their peers more readily about their problems, and emote, if need be. Men, particularly of my father's generation just seem to be emotionally stunted, locked inside of themselves. Sad. They did a LOT of damage.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Autumn W
Thanks for your courage in sharing.

I had a Hypnotheray, Psychotherapist, N.L.P. Practice and also used Bio-energy therapy.

All clients were unique and treated as such--I did not like labels--people tended to get stuck in them.
For some Hypnosis was very powerful and achieved the results

There is nothing but energy in movement (atoms) ant that includes feelings.
That where Bio-energy comes in.
It works on the chakras, energy field of the body and where an other therapy was perhaps only partially successful the bio-energy therapy removed/ resolved the condition--be it mental emotional or physical.

To give you an example--I had a young client She said she was clinically depressed--three sessions and it was gone.

I was trained by Michael D'Alton he now practices in Canada-- an amazing "therapist."
Obviously what you are doing is working---for anyone interested in energy therapy this is Michaels web site below.

Best wishes
Chris

http://www.daltonsbio.com/

Ps if you visit the site be sure to watch the videos on the right hand side.

Thank you SO much.

[jimrich]

Very happy for you! Sounds like you went through a kind of torture.
In a way, this is true and studying PTSD helped me see what happened in my family. It was more of a mental torture than a physical thing and got even worse as I grew older and found dad to be both very dangerous but impossible to communicate with!

I think that men used to have a much harder time than women, in this regard. Women have always been allowed to open up to their peers more readily about their problems, and emote, if need be. Men, particularly of my father's generation just seem to be emotionally stunted, locked inside of themselves. Sad.
My very tough, capable and brilliant dad was the classic 'strong/silent type" which one might admire UNTIL you have to live with such a person. His "silence" could sent chills up my spine!
He was extremely mental and physically capable (we farmed) but emotionally STUNTED (which I discovered many years later!). After finding out a little about his childhood, in which he did not get to be a child but was put to "work" the minute he could hold a tool, I understood why and how he was psychologically stunted - like Buddy Rich - he did not get to be "child".
It's very sad to see and understand what happens to folks like Buddy Rich, Adolph Hitler and my dad who were DEPRIVED of a normal childhood! They can seem quite capable, intelligent and successful BUT don't try to live with or work for them! It has helped me to understand my dad but not to forgive him - so far. Maybe tomorrow! :cocktail:


They did a LOT of damage.
Alice Miller (google her) wrote several books describing A. Hitler's childhood and the dire consequences that his extremely abusive childhood hood cost the entire world. Hitler was essetially an abused child who took revenge on the whole world for the rotten way he and his side-kicks were raised. Savagely beating and whipping one's kids was very fashionable in Germany and other European cultures at that time so Hitler and his peers came to power FILLED with mind blowing RAGE and then vented their RAGE on everyone EXCEPT those who truly deserved their RAGE - their own parents! :muscle:
Alice Miller's portrayal of Hitler, Stalin and a few other "monsters", based on how they were raised, is the most riveting and HONEST piece of psychology I've even encountered and it perfectly matches my own childhood experiences with such monsters - my parents.
Alice Miller does not recommend going home and beating up one's parents but she makes it perfectly clear that Hitler's RAGE belonged to his parents and not the rest of the world which he punished in the place of those who deserved to be punished - his own ABUSIVE parents!
Read any of her books if you get a chance. :heart: