The Heather Material

[Bill Ryan]

Hi, All:

I received this interesting e-mail below from a correspondent in Canada overnight. I can make no comment on it as I have no way of knowing whether the information he shared is true.

What I will comment on, again, is that whoever sourced the material in the Heather PDF (http://projectcamelot.org/billsheather1.pdf) - whether or not it was Ben taking dictation on his own computer from someone whose story he believed, and who was staying at his house - was certainly no Black Ops scientist, let alone an MD.

There are a lot of crazy stories out there. Some of the crazy stories are true. But in my strong personal opinion, this one is not. Enough already.

*****


Hi Bill.

I was about to listen to the Heather story when I thought I would read the attached PDF file first. Well imagine my surprise when I discovered that I had already read the material before.

Kerry says that she received this information late 2009. I do not remember where online I first viewed the file but I can tell you it was 4-5 years ago.

You also have to wonder who actually wrote it as it looks like it was written by someone who is somewhat challenged.

Spelling and sentence structure are that of someone who never went to high school, hardly a scientist.

I agree with you Bill, this is a fraud and I won’t waste my time with Heather’s story.




Steve, Canada [full name, location and e-mail address supplied]

[lightblue]

totally agree with bill
besides, haven't we discussed this a few weeks ago? now the very same story :blah: is being marketed again - i noticed helvetic started a new thread devoted to this - again ! boring... :bored:

[bashi]

Hi Bill, with all respect, as long as the e-mail has no link to the source of the “historic“ material , then I would not count much on it.
Nevertheless, I totally agree with you that the material is most likely a fake.

I remember reading where the author was coming to a point where he/she had to spill some beans, and then he/she could not because the place of hiding (a hotel) was allegedly compromised. I think it was some telephone call to the lobby manager. Nevertheless the author continued writing many more pages after that, but just scratching other topics on the surface. No beans!

I also remember the “death”, caused by you! :lol:
I laugh, because I saw after that allegation – by coincidence – Heather sending a message to you, that she had lied and was alive and was begging you to interview her. :loco:
You simply called the bluff and let her drop down. I really liked that :nhl_checking: .

Yesterday I wasted nearly 2 hours watching Kerry and the Kiddy`s drawing of greys. No comment, your conscience will tell. Mostly I like the story of the broken CD-player of the PC. It must be TPTB! This sabotage was so efficient, that – according to her – up to today she had not received any further info.

I actually pity Kerry. She had been reduced by several classes. The effect of EGO and greed, effectively enhanced by the COINTELPRO.


.

[kinsuemei2]

you know what i understand bills belief, I have no issue with that,but if any other people have something smart to say, say it to be not about me, because you I was taken in by her story and yeah I believed it, my experience, not a story Bashi is what I lived through, because of my experience I have lost my wife and this is a very sore subject oh and guess what my cd player still don't work I can put it on you tube of me trying to use it if you really want to satisfy yourself.But ultimately and you can believe what you want , However am perfectly willing and able to defend myself and trust me I shall. i did not fully want the heather stuff published, but I was personally asked for it to be published, so I don't mind the flak again, as long as the people with low level thinking keep it polite, I don't want my facebook hacked again, or my you-tube account that has been open since 2006, and i am more than tired with the 'you broke up Camelot' emails that have graced my inbox.

as for Bill, I have nothing but respect for Bill because, he at least voiced his opinion to me as well, he treated me like the gentleman he is, and I dare say is a better man than I.

[kinsuemei2]

And on the last note, if anybody wants to talk about this, talk to me. I don't ignore people and I don't push people away, and i always respond if asked a question, just don't making assumptions about a person without even trying to get to know them or understand them.
Kinsuemei2 Ben

[bashi]

Sorry to hear that kins,
and i have no intention to add to your pain.
I actually perceived your testimony about the greys as much more substantial that the heather case. I think with that kind of experience you were more prone to fall for heather.

"..I was taken in by her story and yeah I believed it.."

That sounds like past tense. Is it that by now you also question the value of the heather story?



.

[kinsuemei2]

yes my friend I do question all of her story, it's one of those moments when i look back and think "oh god what was i thinking" but from what i have been told she has made a small living out of living off people in this way, and its cool my friend I understand that people are here for the truth and when this comes along and upsets the flow, it upsets me as well. I have seen some of your posts Bashi and your a good person you have my total respect, for your honesty.
Ben

[bashi]

I think the whole process of Camelot-break up just needed a suitable trigger. That it was the heather-story was just a coincidence. If it were not this story, then another one would have surfaced.
The way I see it, this was meant to happen. The vetting-parameters of Kerry and Bill for new info-releases were just too different. When Kerry pressed forward to release the material, Bill tried to save the integrity of Camelot by applying the emergency brake. That meant to go public with some info, for which in turn he was accused of.
The people didn’t realize that it was meant to prevent a dilution of milk with water.
In my view it was a mistake from Kerry`s side to try to forcefully push the release, despite Bills objections.

What do you think?

.

[lightblue]

yes my friend I do question all of her story, it's one of those moments when i look back and think "oh god what was i thinking" but from what i have been told she has made a small living out of living off people in this way, and its cool my friend I understand that people are here for the truth and when this comes along and upsets the flow, it upsets me as well. I have seen some of your posts Bashi and your a good person you have my total respect, for your honesty.
Ben

thank you for you honesty ben, you sound a really lovely person :nod:...sad to hear about your wife...best wishes l

[Ventana]

The consensus appears to be that the "Heather Material" is bogus. I'm shocked that any reasonable person would take it as authentic. This will be my last post on that subject. Let that one lie! And I applaud Bill for his integrity.

[kinsuemei2]

yes upon hindsight ventana thats probably true but were all just human, we do make mistakes, just as long as we can admit we made them, and as Bill said laugh when we realize we were wrong. Light blue thank you for that my friend, I appreciate your kind words. and Bashi I think what your saying is true, and alot of things happened behind the scenes that none of us were aware of in the Camelot camp

[K626]

As I said on AV1 I'm with Bill on this one. Also I think it was extremely astute of him to catch it early.

love

K

[lightblue]

yes upon hindsight ventana thats probably true but were all just human, we do make mistakes, just as long as we can admit we made them, and as Bill said laugh when we realize we were wrong. Light blue thank you for that my friend, I appreciate your kind words. and Bashi I think what your saying is true, and alot of things happened behind the scenes that none of us were aware of in the Camelot camp

hi ben

don't think for a second you've had any part in camelot break up.. the whole story was just a catalyst for what was already happening, as bashi put it eloquently earlier ...you just got caught in it - unwittingly so..it's totally understandable how that can happen even without knowing what went on behind the scenes like you say...my best wishes to you l :wave:

[sunflower]

Hi Ben, thanks for posting. You are helping to clear up an issue that's been hanging over Camelot/Avalon. I listened to your interview yesterday and appreciated your alien experiences. That's more than enough for one lifetime. You didn't need "Heather" coming into and disrupting your family . Hope your family life returns to normal as soon as possible.

[SteveX]

I agree that the overall consensus is against the Heather material. What surprises me is that Kerry has released this audio with Ben, which on the whole covers his personal life and alien contacts. Although Bens story is an article in itself it in not a Project Camelot story. I remember in a Kerry & Bill video words to the effect of “Project Camelot isn’t about alien contacts or space ships. The Internet has thousands of those. We’re about whistleblowers.” I can’t for the life of me remember if Bill said it or Kerry.

[lightblue]

I agree that the overall consensus is against the Heather material. What surprises me is that Kerry has released this audio with Ben, which on the whole covers his personal life and alien contacts. Although Bens story is an article in itself it in not a Project Camelot story. I remember in a Kerry & Bill video words to the effect of “Project Camelot isn’t about alien contacts or space ships. The Internet has thousands of those. We’re about whistleblowers.” I can’t for the life of me remember if Bill said it or Kerry.

why would you be surprised stevex?

this interview was on air a couple of days ago, as part of the reformed camelot (productions) and not the PC as it once was..your question should go to kerry...and that's if you take ben's story as "yet another et contactee's account"...

my sense is that ben got sucked into a larger story with a more sinister background, in fact i think that he might just blow a whistle on it...if he does't i'll understand - he's already suffered enough, been hurt... and he may not want to remember..:)


...

[SteveX]

Lightblue
Firstly I didn't pose a question for anyone. I just made a statement but to answer your question to my surprise. In light of the PDF that was posted it's clear is not tenable as a whistleblowers testimony. So...discounting that out of Bens audio Kerry is left with little more than a contactee's account.

Apart from that, one could surmise 1 of a few things. Kerry has broadened her scope to include contact testimony or Kerry holds some store in the Heather material or there's bad blood still flowing.

If, as a new viewer / listener to this site and unaware of the Heather bust up with Kerry and Bill the audio would be intriguing, until you read the PDF. Without meaning to be discourteous to Ben the Heather material doesn’t help his story. Some may equate guilt by association and put his story in the same light after reading the PDF.

[bashi]

Apart from that, one could surmise 1 of a few things. Kerry has broadened her scope to include contact testimony or Kerry holds some store in the Heather material or there's bad blood still flowing.



I think that's it.

The Heather issue has never been discussed in open with the parties involved. Now is the time.
I think Bill has waited for Kerry to make her first move. If she would have had the strength - as Ben - to admit to a mistake, then his response would have been most likely different. But she is still on it, so Bill decided to start this thread in order to shoot her down once and for all.
He is a wise warrior and maybe admires Sun Tzu. :cool:


.

[K626]

Lightblue
Firstly I didn't pose a question for anyone. I just made a statement but to answer your question to my surprise. In light of the PDF that was posted it's clear is not tenable as a whistleblowers testimony. So...discounting that out of Bens audio Kerry is left with little more than a contactee's account.

Apart from that, one could surmise 1 of a few things. Kerry has broadened her scope to include contact testimony or Kerry holds some store in the Heather material or there's bad blood still flowing.

If, as a new viewer / listener to this site and unaware of the Heather bust up with Kerry and Bill the audio would be intriguing, until you read the PDF. Without meaning to be discourteous to Ben the Heather material doesn’t help his story. Some may equate guilt by association and put his story in the same light after reading the PDF.

Totally agree with that summary. I'd also like to add that Kerry is coming across as pretty clueless with her continiued investment in this stuff. No offence to Ben who comes across as a genuine guy who is clearly trying to piece things together.

LoveK

[perfectresonance]

My first reaction to reading the Heather PDF was that it was fake. That said, we are mostly a self-selecting group here. We have made the effort to take "Bill's side" when the split caused us to weigh up both sides of the argument.

Therefore, any 'consensus' that the PDF is a flawed document is an illusion due to the fact we're starting from the same point of view in the first place.

[lightblue]

My first reaction to reading the Heather PDF was that it was fake. That said, we are mostly a self-selecting group here. We have made the effort to take "Bill's side" when the split caused us to weigh up both sides of the argument.

hi perfectresonance

i thiink that you should speak for yourself only ...as you first started.
your opinion about the effort taking can't be representative of us all..coming to a conclusion that bill presented many valid arguments in support of a supposition that the doc is faked was effortless on my part....it isn't really about effort taking, but common sense.


Therefore, any 'consensus' that the PDF is a flawed document is an illusion due to the fact we're starting from the same point of view in the first place.

the document is flawed because it does not reflect a reality of what took place..no consensus is needed as ben kindly made his statement earlier on in this thread..therefore - understanding that this document is faked is not an illusion...best wishes l:happy:

[perfectresonance]

Unless the dictionary definition of consensus isn't appropriate here, the claim by another poster that consensus exists on the Heather material being bogus seems a sweeping statement that deserved some balance.

I'm not sure why you thought I wasn't speaking for myself only. I hope most people here will take that as a given. But if it helps you out, nothing I say is anything but my personal opinion. Can we get back to talking about the topics instead of your perception of the undesirability of my sharing an opinion on it? It distracts from why I'm here, and I don't want to bore others with this semantic side trip. Many thanks.

We are a self-selecting group here due to two reasons

1) Project Avalon 2's membership is a screened membership
2) This isn't Kerry's message board

That said, having taken in Ben's interview and listened very carefully, I do understand why Kerry feels strongly about Ben. His story is compelling in a lot of places, but you can hear Kerry digging for information that she feels should be there instead of letting a witness tell a story.. There were a number of instances where the story jarred for me. The rest of it, at first glance, was hanging together. But it was essentially useless personal testimony. Useless in as much that apart from the human interest of Ben having (allegedly) had these experiences, there was nothing there to blow a whistle on.

Having the understanding of how Internet technology works, the evidence presented by Bill on Ben's multiple accounts and personalities on the message board is damning and conclusive enough to put Ben's story on the shelf.

The fact he's (allegedly) managed to talk to David Icke, Kerry Cassidy and by now, perhaps, even Duncan O'Finnian does seem to trigger warning bells in me also. Ben's story needs to be flagged as tainted until someone else can come along and prop it up. In the mean time Ben may be getting legitimacy simply because he's reached some people, and his credibility is built on the foundations that credible people had contact with him. Bit of a Ponzi scheme of credibility, if you allow me that terrible comparison ;)

[bashi]

Its not about self-confirmation.
I was already convinced that the material was bogus, and now Ben has provided the


PROOF

[Bill Ryan]

Intrigued by the reference to David Icke, I listened to the interview and have just forwarded the brief section in which Ben mentioned David to David himself.

That part sounded credible, and I do understand that David talks to a lot of people and simply may not remember a conversation with Ben. But let's see what David says.

Separately, I can't let the reference to MERCK pass by. The Merck information was given to Camelot by a different whistleblower about a totally unrelated topic. Certainly nothing to do with this - unless there's a separate, coincidental contact which I'm not aware of.

Kerry suggested the Merck connection, and Ben instantly (but rather meekly) agreed. With the above caveat in place, as best as I can see this was Ben agreeing to the interviewer's suggestion which was in turn based on a well-intentioned but misplaced recall. I've already said Enough Already - but this does not help anyone.

David is totally tied up at the moment, but if he replies I will report back whatever he says.

Ben, if you can yourself recall when, where and how you talked to David, that may help. There are so few facts in this entire account that can be verified it'll help you a lot if at least one of them checks out.

Another simple thing you could do to turn the entire thing around would be to send Heather's 30 CDs to Kerry. You have her address, and I presume you still have the disks full of classified data - the exposure of which would turn you into an alternative media hero overnight. My advice: go for it, and ring FedEx in the morning. Camelot will pay.

Cheers, Bill

[Carrie1971]

Caught in a "time" loop I did not ever listen to "the heather" story until last week-end.. I saw a whole lot of "stuff" posted about it over on the other message board and I just cannot play around with any of that type of energy.

That is my own personal down fall as when I start to feel something is getting shall I say "heated".. I back away..

As of right now... I do not have any kind of a "gut feeling" one way or another.. I will play it again and wait to hear that all those C.D.'s of "data" arrived before the end of the week would be my guess. "No matter where on the earth you send it from 5 days and it would be where ever."

[THE eXchanger]

removed - and, put on my own thread - questions NOT answered :(

[concerned square]

Ben, you have the cd's and you say heather is living a few doors down from you, is this correct?
You do an hour and forty minutes of an interview and think that they can't track you down and recover the cd's?
Are you a fan of Jonathan Idema? It would explain where you came up with the name Heather Anderson.

[Agape]

In my own life long experience, more intelligent , more educated, more committed people are more difficult for them is to admit they've done even little mistake .
It's an irony of our culture based on worship of perfection that turns us so often away from truth .

And you're saying that 'Heather' who is not more or less than part of unhuman, barbaric research for so many years, in her own story ..
who enjoyed the highest level clearance that was based on her personal credibility and ability to keep her mouth shut,
is now sitting at the table and composing 'free lines' of 'free will' and blowing whistle on her employers because she fears her life is in stake ?

I have not seen any such documentation would possibly ever come out from hands of scientist .

It's like moral self-assasination. The trick is that Dr Heather would rather destroy any notes she had .

A

[Kikine]

You can all choose to believe it or not. its a choice. Now would you all stop accusing people or try to prove something? I think the only ones that knows if its true or not its the people that went through it and they can choose to do what they want with the info. You didnt go through that , I didnt either so we cant say a thing. Now what if you all make your choice of believing it or not and just move on to something else?

[Bill Ryan]

Response from David Icke overnight about whether or not he could recall speaking with Ben:



I 'speak' to very few people, Bill, hardly any, except very briefly here and there at events and this guy does not ring a bell at the moment. The only contact I have with people I don't know usually is through emails to the website.

Of course, 2008 is ancient history to me the way my life has gone and it is possible, but if he had a story to tell that really rang true to me there is no way I would not remember, or indeed not have incorporated the information into my 'dots', as it were, and I have done neither.

A throwaway line like 'write a book' means nothing anyway. Whenever people say to me they have information and experiences of interest I always say write it all down. It doesn't mean for a second that I believe what they say.

All the best,

David

[Dougall]

Kerry's latest interview with Ben was not much to do with "Heather" and more about Ben. He has a story to tell and Kerry wanted to post it on her side of the PC site. Hey, I have nothing against Ben and don't want to get out of line with criticism (this is where people usually say something mean) This is what I think... Not a good interview, Kerry seems bored, repeats herself, and looses track of the conversation.

I had a strong intuitive sense that the Heather Material may have been typed by use of a Facilitator. I don't want to say more because for one, I may be wrong, and two because it's a touchy subject.
I will say a little bit more... If that is the way it happened, I do think it would make a pretty good story, and would shed some light on this deal.

I can see Bill rolling his eyes saying "Don't give this thing another angle, put this baby to bed and let's move on." ha ha ha.
Anyway I am sure others have thought of this as well, and may have posted it already, in so many words.

For me the question is, Who is Heather really? That's all I'm saying.

[Redtailhawk]

'
Kerry's latest interview with Ben was not much to do with "Heather" and more about Ben. He has a story to tell and Kerry wanted to post it on her side of the PC site. Hey, I have nothing against Ben and don't want to get out of line with criticism (this is where people usually say something mean) This is what I think... Not a good interview, Kerry seems bored, repeats herself, and looses track of the conversation.

In all fairness to Kerry, she did mention she had a bad cold when she recorded this conversation with Ben. It was not meant to be an interview it was her first (and only?) conversation with Ben. When Ben mentioned "John and James", I think that was their names, Kerry asked who are they, that is when the conversation turned to the anecdotal story of Ben's. She asked Ben what does this have to do with the Heather Material, I don't recall how Ben responded but the conversation never seemed to get back on track. My sense was that was why Kerry sounded hesitant, she had questions about his testimony. She was clear that he needed to follow up with the evidence that he claims to have, and referenced she never received it at the end of the video. I never got the feeling that she was a believer of what Ben was saying, she was just keeping an open mind. As investigators of this domain one has to keep an open mind as many aspects of the phenomenon we are all exploring is on the surface down right unbelievable.

[Lily de Cuir]

I agree with both Dougall and Redtailhawk. Possibly the worst interview I've listened to, my eyes were rolling and I was shaking my head throughout. (And I've never done that in a PC interview, so that was telling, and I've listened to or watched 95% of the site.) I found none of the interview convincing. It waffled all over the shop.

As for the Heather Material, someone with a very fertile imagination, is my guess. A university-educated person simply would not write so badly with regard to grammar, spelling etc.

Lily de Cuir

[bashi]

Another simple thing you could do to turn the entire thing around would be to send Heather's 30 CDs to Kerry. You have her address, and I presume you still have the disks full of classified data - the exposure of which would turn you into an alternative media hero overnight. My advice: go for it, and ring FedEx in the morning. Camelot will pay.

Cheers, Bill

Bill, you are the bad Billy Boy...:laugh:

.

[kinsuemei2]

BOOKRES@aol.com was the email address David gave me, as he does check it, and it was Tuesday 11/13/07 9:32 AM, and David speaks to a vast number of people so its more like a lifetime ago for David I am sure, but the CD's have already been given to a friend who told me it was military style in format but very likely constructed for miss information purposes or just an attention seeking device on Heathers part, That's it for me with her!

I have washed my hands of her and her issues, she did not even have the decency to inform me that she was OK, I had to hear it through a second party, this has already cost me part of my soul and I don't give a dam what people believe. My friends that have helped me know the truth and the people I care about know the truth and ultimately that's more important to me than anything else, because its very easy for a person to sit back in a chair and pass judgment on a experience that they have not lived through.

But for me I have not run away or hide if people have questions ask me, but don't make smug remarks and pretend that I am not here because I am more than willing and able to defend myself, most people have been very respectful to me and I hope that people will continue this course of action.

[watchZEITGEISTnow]

Hi

So you're saying you've been used by "Heather" to spread a 'good story' at least - or deliberate disinfo at most?

Personally I think the story is ... another attempt to just stuff us around.. transparent to me anyway. I also think Kerry wasn't totally buying this one herself. She sounded pretty sick on the audio - I still love her stuff though. C'mon Kerry - you called Greer out (which was cool) - just can't understand why you'd take this one as a given so publicly? Time to stand back (take away the personal emotion you seemingly have with this party) and really study this one from a well versed background in all things like this which you are expert at.

[kinsuemei2]

you have to remember one thing the military document none of you got to see it ok? what you saw was a copied be it badly version of what was told to me by her and various snippets that she plucked from the info, now I don't have the CDs because I stood my ground and said, the only way anybody was getting their hands on it was if they came to my doorstep and I personally handed them it and I made that very well known, my friend did this, yes he is in this forum and no I will not tell you who, unless he comes forward himself, I don't throw people under the bus. Now yes I believed Heather because she was really scared over something, I crippled my dam credit putting her up for a long time because I genuinely thought and felt she was in danger, but if she was using me, then fine I messed up, but on my life and that of my children, I did what i believed to be right, let me make this easy for all of you, I will answer any questions on my experience, but as far as the heather material goes, I have made my apologies and am not going to comment any more on it unless you email me and specifically and genuinely want to know, because at this point I am repeating myself way to much to people that are drawing conclusions with half the story and can't even get simple facts right like I created multiple accounts, to that end was to try to get back into Avalon at the time I was banned, those accounts did not already stand

[kinsuemei2]

further more the only other account was Heathers, and unfortunately if we have a bunch of AV supporters where I live only one could have access due to the IP thing, that's a fact, because in 200 units they share ip blocks, only the macs are different, but AGAIN... in not getting in to it because people will talk junk either way, and it all goes in one ear and out the other, I fortunately have learn't a rough lesson from this, 'thank you Bill i did' but its not been a easy one. I want everybody to understand that I am not angry at anybody in here, everybody has the right to believe what they wish, if you think i am full of crap great, but please if you want to say so, say it to me, as I would welcome a person with a negativity towards me, in the hope that I could help the way they understand me in their heart.

Ben

[haibane]

I've also listened to the the entire interview and got a feeling, from beginning to the end, that Kerry was unimpressed to say the least, and I find it a wee bit surprising that she even published the whole thing. Just a thought - could it be that she was in some way coerced to do it?

[Fredkc]

Kin...
Missed you in the room, of late ;)

Fred

[bashi]

Kin, why don't you start a new thread about your experiences, and post a link to it here in this thread?
Here you will always be asked about the heather thing, just because the name of this thread.

[kinsuemei2]

yeah I might do that, if the management have no objections.

[Redtailhawk]

I will ask the obvious question here Kimsuemei2. Why in the world would you give the alleged Military documents away to a friend without making back up copies? By your response I assume you did not make copies? If for no other reason than to clear your name, and to back up your story?

[Enlightenment101]

I was not to sure what to make of the Heather story, I did enjoy the man interviewed, his story was very interesting,

[concerned square]

kinsuemei2, you are doing a lot of damage to Camelot+Avalon and also to genuine whistle blowers with this rubbish you have concocted.
It's very convenient you no longer have the cd's or documents, your friend will now have a car accident, is that what happens next? the suspense is killing me!
Do the decent thing kinsuemei2.

[kinsuemei2]

I am finding it hard to keep my anger in check with that last idiots post, but redtailhawk my friend, i wanted that material gone, and I told EVERYBODY that might have wanted to look at it, come to my doorstep and get it, they have, they are here in this forum, believe it or not, I could not care less what people think, at this point because the situation is insane. and clear my name? i don't see how it would have helped me? it might have helped heathers case a little, as she could have been duped, but holy hell people will still wonder about as they have passing off remarks and gestures, no my name would not be clear for a long time, but really the only four people I give a dam about know me, and who I am and what I represent, the rest of this is not important to me, now I have to deal with my experiences and look after what family I have left, and Concerned square.. your car crash remark was in bad taste, you have no idea whats going on with me, only one person in this forum does, and it's not Bill or Kerry, so please don't try to be a comedian when it comes to things like that because its wrong.

Ben

[concerned square]

kinsuemei2, be sure to tell your friend to keep the cd's safe. Kerry was in florida two weeks ago, it's a shame you didn't hand them over then.

[blue777]

I am finding it hard to keep my anger in check with that last idiots post, but redtailhawk my friend, i wanted that material gone, and I told EVERYBODY that might have wanted to look at it, come to my doorstep and get it, they have, they are here in this forum, believe it or not, I could not care less what people think, at this point because the situation is insane. and clear my name? i don't see how it would have helped me? it might have helped heathers case a little, as she could have been duped, but holy hell people will still wonder about as they have passing off remarks and gestures, no my name would not be clear for a long time, but really the only four people I give a dam about know me, and who I am and what I represent, the rest of this is not important to me, now I have to deal with my experiences and look after what family I have left, and Concerned square.. your car crash remark was in bad taste, you have no idea whats going on with me, only one person in this forum does, and it's not Bill or Kerry, so please don't try to be a comedian when it comes to things like that because its wrong.

Ben

hello Ben
The question lies, how do we discern truth from falsehood......I, like many, keep an open mind, but if the information is for helping Mankind then it could be positive and truthful....if it is for helping the Ego ,it is a falsehood...There are many strange things going on which we do not know about.....Therefore how do we discern , what you are saying is the truth?
lol
blue
Bill I do not agree with you that if a person cannot write decent English he/she is not intelligent.......this is a form of elitism...ego etc...

[perfectresonance]

"Bill I do not agree with you that if a person cannot write decent English he/she is not intelligent.......this is a form of elitism...ego etc... "

Not speaking for Bill, but I would like to add that the way I read Bill's view was that the poor spelling and grammar were unlikely to represent a document written by a person who had reached a certain level of education and a position in a government scientific program.

[blue777]

"Bill I do not agree with you that if a person cannot write decent English he/she is not intelligent.......this is a form of elitism...ego etc... "

Not speaking for Bill, but I would like to add that the way I read Bill's view was that the poor spelling and grammar were unlikely to represent a document written by a person who had reached a certain level of education and a position in a government scientific program.

exactly,"Intellectual elitism" is one of these words that I find offensive. It is frequently used to express the conviction that academics, if there indeed was such a thing as "academic freedom," have an authority when we know many academics have been indoctrinated....
quote:
was that the poor spelling and grammar were unlikely to represent a document written by a person who had reached a certain level of education ...maybe the person had more intuitive and innate intellect
lol
p.s I trust Bill.....good English grammar does not apply to all people all over the world....science can be done in any language

[Kikine]

hello Ben
Bill I do not agree with you that if a person cannot write decent English he/she is not intelligent.......this is a form of elitism...ego etc...

I agree with you blue777. Even educated people don't necessarly have great writing skills or a good grammar and spelling. Doesn't have anything to do with if the person is well educated, intelligent or working for gov.

[blue777]

I agree with you blue777. Even educated people don't necessarly have great writing skills or a good grammar and spelling. Doesn't have anything to do with if the person is well educated, intelligent or working for gov.

Thank GOODNESS FOR THAT.......I believe there are super intellectual beings with disabilities....dyslexia etc

[Kikine]

Thank GOODNESS FOR THAT.......I believe there are super intellectual beings with disabilities....dyslexia etc

Haha, yes blue77. And I don't think the governement or whatever "choose" their people depending on their grammar skills. I would think more depending on their knowledge, gifts, intelligence etc
Even then, it is hard to define what 'intelligence' really is and who is or not.

[blue777]

Haha, yes blue77. And I don't think the governement or whatever "choose" their people depending on their grammar skills. I would think more depending on their knowledge, gifts, intelligence etc
Even then, it is hard to define what 'intelligence' really is and who is or not.

Winston Churchill could not spell at all...its not what you know it is who you know.
lol
blue

[Kikine]

agreed loL
I wouldnt stop at ''spelling and grammar" mistakes to know if I believe something or not. It is because people have learned that "Educated people" are supposed to be good at that. That influence them in what to think of people who have difficulties with grammar and languages. Someone will tend to trust less someone with grammar mistakes. We have to look beyond that. I don't know if this is the right word but I would say it looks like prejudices.

[Bill Ryan]

We have to look beyond that.

Yes, we do!

Here are the data points:

1-8) See all the notes posted in yellow on http://projectcamelot.org/billsheather1.pdf

9) Same dyslexic errors (e.g. 'SOLIDER' for 'soldier') made by both Ben and Heather.

10) Identical IP addresses of Ben and Heather.

11) Ben's explanation that Heather dictated the material was only offered after the IP issue was spotted. If Heather dictated the material to Ben and was indeed a scientist or an MD, she certainly never checked it.

12) One person we know phoned Ben at home to speak to Heather personally. She was told "Heather had just left the country by boat".

13) Heather was reported dead in Germany in a traffic accident. Then she turned up in Strasbourg. That's 90 miles from where I was at the time, and so I offered to meet. That was the last anyone heard of her. There is absolutely no evidence that she was a real person. (MD registration/education records? Social Security number? Any biographical information at all...?)

14) Ben handed over 30 CDs of Heather's - with claimed authentic blockbuster scientific data on them - to an un-named friend.... but forgot to make copies for himself. So all that priceless material (like Heather!) is no longer available.

15) In the interview, Ben agreed to Kerry's prompt of the MERCK connection... although last summer we had been given Merck, which is a pharmaceutical company, as a name in connection with an entirely unrelated issue, by an entirely unrelated whistleblower: Kerry had accidentally got the name confused with another subject of investigation. So why did Ben agree to Kerry's suggestion?

16) (Have I forgotten anything? There may be more still...)

So: I gently propose that there are quite a lot of issues beyond Heather not being able to write (or dictate) very well. Occam's Razor may help us reach a conclusion.

Very best wishes, Bill

[Kikine]

yeah, but you arent looking beyond that... whatever Bill im not trying to change your mind. You already made it clear you didnt believe it. Thats fine with me, its your choice. But im staying open minded and ill continue looking BEYOND that ...lol so nevermind. have a nice day.

[Kerry Cassidy]

Hi, All:

I received this interesting e-mail below from a correspondent in Canada overnight. I can make no comment on it as I have no way of knowing whether the information he shared is true.

What I will comment on, again, is that whoever sourced the material in the Heather PDF (http://projectcamelot.org/billsheather1.pdf) - whether or not it was Ben taking dictation on his own computer from someone whose story he believed, and who was staying at his house - was certainly no Black Ops scientist, let alone an MD.

There are a lot of crazy stories out there. Some of the crazy stories are true. But in my strong personal opinion, this one is not. Enough already.



FROM MY BLOG POST OF TODAY, APRIL 16, 2010

On Protecting Sources and Confidentiality

This statement has been written response to the recent actions of Bill Ryan and speaking to the core reason for the split within Camelot and why the building of the portal became necessary.

I have been silent until now and have not spoken out publicly at any length due to my desire to preserve the good standing and credibility of Project Camelot. However, I can no longer remain silent due to the statement made by Bill Ryan on his site regarding what he considers to be a "takedown" of Camelot. The only takedown has been the complete and total responsibility of myself and Bill Ryan. We no longer agree on core values or perceptions and have not for over 1 and 1/2 years... therefore we have archived the Camelot site into what is now known as the Camelot Library.

I am concerned that the good name and integrity of Project Camelot has been dealt a serious blow by the actions of Bill Ryan. As many of you know, the split within Camelot has become the object of much internet gossip...

If one keeps in mind that our credibility and integrity are the main and integral parts of what our name stands for in the world that we inhabit as, in essence, investigative journalists into the nature of reality and revealing the truth beneath the Matrix... then our reputation is all we have to allow us to continue to pursue our mission and maintain our standing in the internet community.

Note: This standing was recently brought into question when Bill Ryan came forward to debunk and out two whistleblowers. He did this, in spite of the fact that both these whistleblowers came to Camelot in trust and in secrecy, placing themselves at the mercy of Camelot with the complete belief that Project Camelot was an organization of integrity and would fully honor any secrecy in their dealings with those individuals as clearly stated in the mission statement on our website.

Unfortunately, Bill Ryan recently decided that the statement of confidentiality and secrecy was to be amended to say in essence "if I, Bill Ryan, decide subsequently, that the story told to us in confidence is false or misleading I will then take it upon myself to out the witness and thereby reveal our "source" to the world, putting their lives and the lives of their loved ones in danger, as well as violating the clear implied and expressed agreement that we have established in writing previously with them and to the world...."

Along these lines, I submit the following image from the Wikileaks.org website of their now famous release of the videotape of collateral murder by U.S. forces in Iraq during which two journalists were also killed. This statement -- from that video states the CORE principle by which they operate. This is a nod to them and their integrity. I am sad to say this cannot any longer be the claim of Project Camelot...

To be clear, they state "Wikileaks exists to help you safely reveal important material to the world. We have an unbroken record in protecting confidential sources."

IMAGE

At question is our reputation which will precede us wherever we go in the future with regard to Project Camelot and therefore we have been left with the decision as to how we intend to operate going forward. The Portal was built to allow for this difference in our styles and approaches to whistleblowers and confidential testimony. I can state here, unequivocally, that I do honor confidentiality and will continue to pledge to protect my sources against all odds regardless of whether they be external or internal to Camelot.

At the same time, I want to state here that the recent statements of Bill Ryan with regard to Illuminati takeover of Camelot are not only completely unfounded but a subterfuge to cover gross errors in judgment that led him to cast 2 whistleblowers to the dogs... in severe disregard of his pledge to uphold the mission of Camelot and in violation of all that Project Camelot claims to stand for.

After repeated requests to Bill Ryan that he reconsider his position and views, I was left with no recourse but to publish this statement.

While he will needless to say, go to great lengths to show the world that one was an unbalanced hoaxer and the other is, he believes, acting as an agent of the Illuminati in a dark plot to take down Camelot, neither is true. Camelot is operating as before with the exception that we have reached the point where working together has become impossible due to our differences in views and interpretations of what it means to have integrity.

Sincerely,

Kerry Lynn Cassidy
Co-Founder, Project Camelot

[bashi]

yeah, but you arent looking beyond that... whatever Bill im not trying to change your mind. You already made it clear you didnt believe it. Thats fine with me, its your choice. But im staying open minded and ill continue looking BEYOND that ...lol so nevermind. have a nice day.

So if you look beyond that, what do you see ?



Kerry, nothing new from you....

.

[kinsuemei2]

yet again Kerry I want to thank you, your words are heartfelt and you don't back down from anything or anybody, in regards to Bill, Bill you either don't read all the information, probably because you don't deem it worth your time, first off if you think that I am unbalanced, well this coming from a man who also saw grays, and in fact dated a possible non human, none of us that I know have, have ever demanded that you prove this? and we hold you at a certain level of RESPECT, now you also throw words like "out of a bad Sci Fi novel" and even Cyber dyne, and again not many people that I know of asked you about that...to my knowledge
Look the point id from my side and others that have come to me in support I think your quest for the truth has blinded you to certain aspects of things, you’re so dam busy, let me ask you when you’re throwing a guy and his family under the bus as you did, you had no thoughts for them, or how this might affect somebody, the TRUTH of that is you don't care.
Now let us look at this list shall we as you want to look beyond this for the last time to address this then cancel my account because this issue is dead in my heart and my mind, I don’t care what she does and yeah were still calling her heather that’s not her name of course

Here are the data points:

1-8) See all the notes posted in yellow on http://projectcamelot.org/billsheather1.pdf
That’s been explained right? And 9 falls in to that category, upon the dictation for most of it. Not all though.

10) Identical IP addresses of Ben and Heather.
Ok this is again she could be at the end of the complex and STILL have the IP THEY SHARE IPS AGAIN, how many times do I have to state this. Guess what if tow people live in the same house and they want a his or hers account they get banned for cloning great! This is of no relevance, because I am no idiot on computers I could have used a dam proxy and made it look like I was in Bolivia if I wanted, the only way to be sure is to find the MAC address that’s physical address , IP addresses these days are farmed out like fish and mean very little.

11) Ben's explanation that Heather dictated the material was only offered after the IP issue was spotted. If Heather dictated the material to Ben and was indeed a scientist or an MD, she certainly never checked it.
She refused to come near a computer, she was unbalanced that much is certain, she acted very much like Robert E Howard the whole time she was here, and look him up if you don’t know who he is.

12) One person we know phoned Ben at home to speak to Heather personally. She was told "Heather had just left the country by boat".
Nobody phoned me at home, if your referring to somebody then they texted on skype me, nobody has my home phone number NOBODY, its little facts that are blatantly not true that piss me off too, somebody lied to you Bill

13) Heather was reported dead in Germany in a traffic accident. Then she turned up in Strasbourg. That's 90 miles from where I was at the time, and so I offered to meet. That was the last anyone heard of her. There is absolutely no evidence that she was a real person. (MD registration/education records? Social Security number? Any biographical information at all...?)

Of course look at her real name then follow that paper trail she attended winter park elementary, she then went on to Robert E Lee middle school, and then switched between Winter Park High school and had her last year at Edgewater High, she left school and went straight into the military, you know it’s unfortunate that you never talked to me one on one I might have suggested that you CALL some of her family in the area, but still why I have to prove every single thing only serves to further piss me off, she did not trust her family, as they are all military. Let’s see oh yeah the mountain of pictures my then wife and I took of the supposed building where Heather worked, now its 2010 and a abandoned building is stood in the middle of a heavily developed rural setting, I have video and picture for those who want to see, incidentally when I posted the videos, my YouTube page was closed after three years of work on it.
And of course call the manager of the motel AGAIN nobody bothered to even ask for his number??? So you did not want the truth, because its easier to dam a person than help them right? Right? Must be a yes in this case. and what you want me to email you a social? seriously? you want me to give you another persons social beyond what she may or may not have been?

Of course people have heard from heather, just not you, seriously do you think she would contact you? No she won’t even contact me, I had to ask people how she is doing, now I thought that I just don’t care about anybody anymore, this has tested my faith in people, you Bill have made me question myself and who I am, even my own sanity and I know who I am, I know what I am, and I can look at myself in the mirror and say, I am person that if you come to me for help, I will help you, no matter what the cost. If she turned up on my doorstep and needed my help because she was alone, I have to help her, or anybody else in that situation it's my nature, would I make the same mistakes no, but would I help yes, and somebody very dear to me has shown me how important everybody is in this world, nobody is elite in anyway and were all special.

14) Ben handed over 30 CDs of Heather's - with claimed authentic blockbuster scientific data on them - to an un-named friend.... but forgot to make copies for himself. So all that priceless material (like Heather!) is no longer available.
Well Bill you ought to know how valuable you think it is you debunked it, and yes my friend is un-named upon request, because god knows how well you would treat them eh?

15) In the interview, Ben agreed to Kerry's prompt of the MERCK connection... although last summer we had been given Merck, which is a pharmaceutical company, as a name in connection with an entirely unrelated issue, by an entirely unrelated whistle blower: Kerry had accidentally got the name confused with another subject of investigation. So why did Ben agree to Kerry's suggestion?

Well of course Merck deals with military operations and still does, perhaps that might be the only true thing in the document maybe, I don’t know and right now I don’t care but lest look at Merck and what they do such as George W. Merck, who oversaw America's germ-warfare research at Fort Detrick? Yes no? Perhaps so? Well lets assume they are only guilty of Vioxx and god forbid anything else, OH YES

Richard T. Clark for one, a lieutenant in the army for two years of service? Then his service career ends yet he still is listed as active duty until 1999, and he left the army in 1972, No nothing shady about that, and of course serving aborted fetal matter into a soup for vaccines is completely ethical! Everybody does it these days, only Merck did it first. Don’t get me started on what I do know it might just surprise you

16) (Have I forgotten anything? There may be more still...)
I don’t know keep looking, sure you’ll find something

So: I gently propose that there are quite a lot of issues beyond Heather not being able to write (or dictate) very well. Occam's Razor may help us reach a conclusion.

Yeah throw in a Rorschach test whilst your at it why not, scientific logic is ok when you’re looking at science, but its only able to work if you look at every angle and remain objective, so whilst this every well might work for most in your case Bill you are compromised in your assumptions, the FACT is you don’t like me, you don’t believe me, nothing will sway what you believe, even if it stood before you, I could literally now hand deliver the Cds and heather in a frock and you would reason out some way that it’s not true.

Now at the end of all this it’s still your call, the moderators of Avalon asked questions and corresponded with me and I did my best to help them, I find it amazing that every body that KNOWS me only one person came to me and said this is pushing the limits of what I can believe so talk to me, so whilst in a sea of sharks I feel like a sea-lion, but I have other sea-lions around me, am I crazy? the human species is fundamentally insane at different levels so were all crazy now and again.


Now perhaps I have been unfair to Bill here, but the mount of people pushing me is immense and when I push back, you usually know you have been pushed, I have respect for Bill and his work, I respect his opinion, and I can not change it,
But in regards to you bill I want you to remember this section from shake spear.

Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears;
I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him.
The evil that men do lives after them;
The good is oft interred with their bones;
So let it be with Caesar. The noble Brutus
Hath told you Caesar was ambitious:
If it were so, it was a grievous fault,
And grievously hath Caesar answered it.
Here, under leave of Brutus and the rest -
For Brutus is an honorable man;
So are they all, all honorable men -
Come I to speak in Caesar's funeral.
He was my friend, faithful and just to me:
But Brutus says he was ambitious;
And Brutus is an honorable man.

I hope people can relax on this issue a little bit, either make an opinion or let it die, more important things are coming and if your to busy on this you might miss something important so keep your heads up and eyes open.
Ben

[irishspirit]

I have to say that this is getting out of hand. The fact is this should not be about "Bill V Kerry", or indeed should it be a bottle for peoples hearts. For me, I have looked at all this material, and regardless of what Bills or Kerry's view of it is, I did not believe a word of it. There is nothing at all to support these claims being made!! Nothing of note that stands out...

I personally hold my hands up in respect to Bill on this one. The reason being, he seen that PC was being hurt and he went to stop it. Respect for that. Kerry, you could do with checking your sources a little better and not taking everything at face value. Now sort it out folks, you people are hurting the forum and everything that was worked hard to build.

Be Safe


Irish spirit..

[sleeper]

This back and forth stuff has pushed to far. There is now nothing either has to post...interviews or opinions, that I feel I can trust. One or both have been bought off, infiltrated or turned IMO. You all have a nice fight. I'll be somewhere else.

[Lee-B]

This is painful to read. I'm wondering why I signed up now. If the founders of Camelot do not trust one another, why should we?
I've always regarded Kerry and Bill as yin and yang in their radically different approaches to subject matter, complimentary opposites within a greater whole, and have found their body of work to be compelling. But if we do not have trust, it negates everything, and we have nothing.
What to believe!?

[morguana]

This is painful to read. I'm wondering why I signed up now. If the founders of Camelot do not trust one another, why should we?
I've always regarded Kerry and Bill as yin and yang in their radically different approaches to subject matter, complimentary opposites within a greater whole, and have found their body of work to be compelling. But if we do not have trust, it negates everything, and we have nothing.
What to believe!?

leesw1, i guess the answer is to trust in ones self, and not blindly give it away to others, something i have fast been re learning. myself, well i am not really that interested by any of this whole heather thing (truth is an abstract concept)......there are in my opinion much more important things in life to be spending energy on.

[Jan Rodrigo]

Yes I agree there is a lot of negativity amongst positive you have to go with what you feel . There are many good people who are truly trying help people and all so many people who are trying to miss inform . This is like a mirror image in life , so trust just in what you truly feel try not to take on others pain there’s to much of that all ready .

[qbeac]

Hi Bill and everyone else,

Bill, I’ve just read Kerry’s blog about the disagreement you two have had, and I am quite saddened about it.

You two have done a wonderful job with Project Camelot.

You have a LOT of people who appreciate it and support the two of you: Bill and Kerry. Many of us are spreading the Project Camelot material all over the Internet (Ex: google: qbeac project camelot), and that’s helping to awaken a lot of sleeping people.

So, please, couldn’t you try to talk things over and solve it in a cordial way and behind the scenes?

(As opposed to what the elite does, this is probably one those occasions when it is good to do things behind the scenes)

We are all humans, these types of things happen every once in a while to all of us, so we all understand that these things are kind of “normal” among us, imperfect human beings.

So, there must be reasonable ways in which these types of situations can be solved so that everybody is satisfied. It’s a matter of thinking about it and working out a good agreement, forgiving each other for any possible errors or misunderstandings or differences of opinion, and keep waking forward “together”, because, as opposed to “divide and conquer”, “unity makes us stronger.”

Please, think about it.

And thank you very much for all you have done and are doing. We really appreciate it.

Take care. qbeac

P.S. With regards to the dangers of believing disinformation, there are good technical and logical ways to solve that risk, I’ll explain one of them in another e-mail.

[morguana]

Yes I agree there is a lot of negativity amongst positive you have to go with what you feel . There are many good people who are truly trying help people and all so many people who are trying to miss inform . This is like a mirror image in life , so trust just in what you truly feel try not to take on others pain there’s to much of that all ready .

thank you jan, that was beautifully put

and qbeac you have voiced my sentiments, thank you
You have a LOT of people who appreciate it and support the two of you: Bill and Kerry. Many of us are spreading the Project Camelot material all over the Internet (Ex: google: qbeac project camelot), and that’s helping to awaken a lot of sleeping people.

[kinsuemei2]

leesw1, i guess the answer is to trust in ones self, and not blindly give it away to others, something i have fast been re learning. myself, well i am not really that interested by any of this whole heather thing (truth is an abstract concept)......there are in my opinion much more important things in life to be spending energy on.

Its so true Morguana, we need to stop this before it gets worst, there are so many better and much more important issues to deal with, this is not important and only serves as an distraction right now, we all have real work we are doing if it is simply forming communities or stockpiling community food for any number of the 'what if' scenarios.

I am am finished with the thread and look if you feel me cool if you don't feel me cool it dose not matter to me, Irish you are entitled to your opinion brother, but I am not angry with it its all gravy right now. LeeSW1 please don't be upset, were still learning and growing as a community, if we had no conflict it would be a perfect world and, whilst we strive to achieve a better sense of ourselves spiritually here we do fall down, just as long as we say 'we fell down' then its okay to do that.

I am leaving for a few days but Bill, Kerry friendships that are strongest are often those that are tried the hardest right?

Everybody relax and have a wonderful weekend, everybody that has signed up to AV1 and 2 has my total respect, you guys and gals are the light in my darkness, so please continue to guide me.
Ben

[morguana]

i am sorry kinsuemei2, people forget that someone here, a fellow avalonian has been very hurt by all of this, i hope you have a lovely weekend.
love to you
m

[kinsuemei2]

Thankyou you too my friend XO
Ben

[qbeac]

'In all fairness to Kerry, she did mention she had a bad cold when she recorded this conversation with Ben. It was not meant to be an interview it was her first (and only?) conversation with Ben. (...) As investigators of this domain one has to keep an open mind as many aspects of the phenomenon we are all exploring is on the surface down right unbelievable.
Redtailhawk, I agree with what you say, Kerry did say she had a cold or that her voice was hoarse (or something like that).

Also, that was not a “formal interview” to be made public, but simply a first contact Skype conversation.

I also agree that it’s good to keep an open mind and judge only when you finally have enough data to do so. And even so, sometimes you don’t reach that point, so the only solution is to place the subject on hold indefinitely.

But that’s ok too, because we only can do as much as we can do, but no more than that.

[kinsuemei2]

Thankyou you too my friend XO
Ben

[qbeac]

...and qbeac you have voiced my sentiments, thank you
thank you, morguana

[qbeac]

I agree with you blue777. Even educated people don't necessarly have great writing skills or a good grammar and spelling. Doesn't have anything to do with if the person is well educated, intelligent or working for gov.
That’s correct, Kikine, one of my best friends is a brilliant and very intelligent person, this person is a doctor, a very good doctor, this person has an incredible memory, an incredible capacity to reason things out, but does not writes very well (poor grammar). A boss I once had (a high level Engineer), a brilliant and very intelligent person, had the same characteristic

[Redtailhawk]

As the sayings go: "We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are." Also, "There are 3 sides to every story, his side, her side and the TRUTH." Having spent A LOT of time with experiencers, these sayings also apply to them....they may have an authentic experience, then there is their interpretation of the experience that is based on their worldview, which can be quite different from the reality of what has occurred. This is why I highly recommend when a whistleblower is considering coming forward that they have solid evidence in place to substantiate their claims. Judgement and ridicule are rampant in this field, and an already traumatized and conflicted whistleblower can become re-traumatized by the backlash from the public. Ultimately, we are exploring uncharted territory and we must be as vigilant as humanly possible and take a balanced scientific and spiritual approach...we must become spiritual scientists in effect, if we ever wish to uncover the truth about the nature of reality and what it means to be a fully integrated human being.

[Kikine]

People shoudnt judge each others. It serves nothing. People should respect each others and stop fighting. HELPING each others should be the priority. Believe what you want to believe. Decide for yourself. Thats all. The others opinions should not affect you. Every person interpret differently and it will always be like that. Thats life. :) lol get used to it

[blue777]

i am sorry kinsuemei2, people forget that someone here, a fellow avalonian has been very hurt by all of this, i hope you have a lovely weekend.
love to you
m

i am sorry Morguana , but we are talking about truth and reality.....if Bill thought the Heather material was a falsehood and Kerry thought it was the truth , how can you have a discrepancy if both of them were on the same path......secondly if someone cannot write good English and is dyslexic....does not mean they cannot be brilliant and very intelligent......thirdly this sounds like a battle of the EGO .....or a battle between pos feminine energy and negative feminine energy......however we are left to discern for ourselves.......Therefore, how do we discern if the Heather material was truth ?....we cannot just brush it under the carpet as there might be other issues WHICH MAY BE DISINFORMATION OR TRUTH WE HAVE TO DICERN.....If the Bill and Kerry scenario is a spiritual archetype, it will all happen again...Finally.....there is a lot of things that do not add up....sometimes one has to be cruel to be kind
lol
Blue

[perfectresonance]

Bill, Occam's Razor can be applied to many data points in Ben's interview. To mention a few:

Living in your car because your mother in law doesn't like you? Or: living in your car because that's all you can afford right now?

As a MD working for a secure facility, you are able to cut 30 CDs and take them out of the building? Why not use DVDs which would be quicker? And 30? That's a lot. Cut all at once? Or one by one over a long period of time? Does anyone have any idea what the security protocols are on computer equipment and general security in facilities that deal with such allegedly inflammatory research? Or....

He goes public about Heather, but when the questions come, knows nothing and his wife apparently knows the whole story - he only what he was told third hand? Why not have the wife involved? Or: the wife has no idea either.

Your sole intention is to protect your family - your children. So you go public talking to personalities and on message boards? Once you are exposed, you react by increasing your exposure, thereby increasing the risk yo your family. Or: this is about the enjoyment you get from having exposure.

Heather, who would not even be in the same room with a computer, would not talk on a phone, told Ben she was in Germany...how exactly? Or....


I understand that Kerry feels that whistle blowers should be protected at all costs.

But Kerry, does this mean we protect time wasters as well? In understand you were teasing information from the man, and you were also fishing for confirmation of your intuitive feelings. But you never put the man to the test. Whenever it comes to details, or simple tests to aid the credibility of a witness, you weren't on the job that day.

Isn't there also a duty for you to ensure that you exercise some degree of quality control over who reaches you and gets to use your valuable time and your audiences' attention?

Humpty won't be put together again, that's for sure. But if Bill went too far, you have too. As a pair you exercised a healthy amount of restraint on each other's natural inclinations, and the result is a body of work that we all have come to admire and to appreciate.

My suggestion is that this whole Heather/Ben thing is shelved and no longer talked about in public. If it is real and important, it will come back one day with the sort of corroborating evidence that makes it stand up. As it is, it will probably go down as the pathetic way one grandstanding egotistical wannabe ended up splitting up the Dream Team of whistleblower testimony collection and broadcasts.

Damn it all.

[Ixopoborn]

I stumbled upon this thread this morning which caught my interest as I had contributed a short post to the old forum thread on this topic. I have just finished going though the posts which I found a riveting read. People, in the end have responded well to Kinsuemei2 who has deservedly earned respect by his measured behaviour on this thread despite some quite harsh provocation.

I have been a close and avid follower of Camelot from the beginning so am saddened by the Bill/Kerry bust up. But, like others have indicated, the build up of pressure on Bill and Kerry's professional relationship has been pretty obvious for a considerable time.

Was Ben really outed by Bill without Ben's consent? I find it hard to accept that Bill would have broken protocol in that way. Do you Bill feel that you made a mistake in that respect?

Overall, I back Bill's conclusion that, from the start, the Heather story was tainted by shockingly poor provenance and therefore should not have seen the Camelot light of day.

[morguana]

i am sorry Morguana , but we are talking about truth and reality.....if Bill thought the Heather material was a falsehood and Kerry thought it was the truth , how can you have a discrepancy if both of them were on the same path......secondly if someone cannot write good English and is dyslexic....does not mean they cannot be brilliant and very intelligent......thirdly this sounds like a battle of the EGO .....or a battle between pos feminine energy and negative feminine energy......however we are left to discern for ourselves.......Therefore, how do we discern if the Heather material was truth ?....we cannot just brush it under the carpet as there might be other issues WHICH MAY BE DISINFORMATION OR TRUTH WE HAVE TO DICERN.....If the Bill and Kerry scenario is a spiritual archetype, it will all happen again...Finally.....there is a lot of things that do not add up....sometimes one has to be cruel to be kind
lol
Blue

blue, i dont think the truth will ever be reached as the truth is something that means different things to different people, and i am not saying that it shouldnt be discussed, what i was pointing out is that there are REAL people involved in all this (fellow avalonians http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?935-The-Heather-Material&p=10112&viewfull=1#post10112 ) and therefore it may be a good idea for some respect and thoughfullness given to them. have i made sence? i have no intentions of 'brushing anything under the carpet' and to be quite honest i was concerned with regards to kerry's post http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?935-The-Heather-Material&p=9950&viewfull=1#post9950 . my concern being that unfinished biz between bill and kerry may over spill onto forum (no disrespect towards b and k and i sincerly hope that they reach peace). i like the feel of this forum after weeks of wading though muck on the last one its been a breath of fresh air, and i guess i just wish for harmony.

edit to add links

[blue777]

blue, i dont think the truth will ever be reached as the truth is something that means different things to different people, and i am not saying that it shouldnt be discussed, what i was pointing out is that there are REAL people involved in all this (fellow avalonians http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?935-The-Heather-Material&p=10112&viewfull=1#post10112 ) and therefore it may be a good idea for some respect and thoughfullness given to them. have i made sence? i have no intentions of 'brushing anything under the carpet' and to be quite honest i was concerned with regards to kerry's post http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?935-The-Heather-Material&p=9950&viewfull=1#post9950 . my concern being that unfinished biz between bill and kerry may over spill onto forum (no disrespect towards b and k and i sincerly hope that they reach peace). i like the feel of this forum after weeks of wading though muck on the last one its been a breath of fresh air, and i guess i just wish for harmony.

edit to add links

Hello Morguana ,
I know you want peace and harmony , we all do, however, you are saying that the truth is SUBJECTIVE....HOW MANY TRUTHS ARE THERE?....there are people trying to discern the real truth. Secondly, there are 400 people on this forum trying to make 6 Billion people ,who are deaf and blind,hear and see and have no notion of what is going on.Therefore it is in all our interests to get to the truth , even if it makes waves.....Bill and Kerry is a spiritual archetype which has gone wrong why?Activating the 3rd Eye is all well and good...working with intuition alone is only available for the few, as the Ego gets in the way...therefore what is the real truth?
lol
blue

[Dougall]

I don't get the impression that anyone was put in harms way by words posted on Avalon one or two.
If I thought a Black Van was coming to pick me up, I might not post my photo or my Child's photo.
It's a nice picture Ben, and I hope you and yours are well. I'm guessing things will get better soon.
Can you say if Heather was facilitating some of these transcripts and became frightened as the message grew?

[tone3jaguar]

The question that we should always ask ourselves when reading new "secret" information is...

Is any off this information logistically beneficial in any way to the path I am on?

If the answer is no, then skip it and move on.

There is a mime (mind virus) that there always has to be apposing sides to things. What if the whole idea of apposing sides of anything is just an artificial construct of the control matrix? This team vs. that team, this country vs. that country, this material vs. that material. It is all there to distract you from focusing on the work you need to do on yourselves. So long as you consciousness is outside of yourself, they have got you by the short hairs.

I know, I know "I am entitled to choose sides!" Well good luck with that. You are being sucked into the illusion created for you to prevent you from evolving spiritually.

[Indigo]

tone3jaguar, an interesting point of view about opposing sides, but imho, opposing views can serve a benefit, if one is prepared to see things from both points of view. Sometimes we can get bogged down by our own thought paths, so we are blinded to things that don't tally. However, if you can view the sides without having an emotional attachment to either, a new element can be revealed that aids growth.

Just my point of view, of course, feel totally free to ignore it :o)

[Kikine]

The question that we should always ask ourselves when reading new "secret" information is...

Is any off this information logistically beneficial in any way to the path I am on?

If the answer is no, then skip it and move on.

It gets back to what ive said. Believe it or not and move on now. There is more important things to do. All of this is not helping the world to awake or to evolve. So can we get back to that? The world need love and light, not confusion over ONE material. If you dont agree, just stop searching on this material. Move to something else.

lol :) enjoy the ride of life, we are here to experience! haha

[Bill Ryan]

Hi, All:

OK. Here we go.

I read Kerry's post with a degree of disbelief. All you researchers out there, I defy anyone to find ANYTHING I have ever said or written about Kerry that was not complimentary.

Look at the Open Letter to Jeff Rense:
http://projectcamelot.org/open_letter_to_jeff_rense.html

Look at the 2009 year overview:
http://projectcamelot.org/2009_review.html

Look atthe 'About Project Camelot' page on the Avalon site:
http://projectavalon.net/lang/en/about_project_camelot.html

Listen to the radio show we did after the Steven Greer interview:
http://projectcamelot.org/Project-Camelot-32k-081109_discussion_on_Steven_Greer_video.mp3

I have pointed out serious anomalies in the Heather material.
-- I was trying to protect Camelot.

I have pointed out SOME of the MANY serious anomalies in John Burns' association with Camelot:
-- I was trying to protect Camelot. (There's a very great deal to this, by the way.)

I have made strong values-driven statements that I would not endorse advertising on the Camelot site (something John Burns was pushing REALLY hard when he wanted to "turn Camelot into a million-dollar operation")
-- I was trying to protect Camelot.

I have sat patiently (and quietly) when Kerry had for the last several weeks locked me out of the Camelot server and out of the Camelot YouTube account, in both cases by changing the passwords. That was never posted on my blog.

I did not explain publicly that the Anglo-Saxon Mission video was deleted from the Camelot account by KERRY: not by YouTube. (This happened twice.)

I did not make any public fuss when Kerry deleted the entire introduction to the Dane Tops interview after we had agreed that the Camelot Library would remain untouched and intact.

So the problems have been severe.

I have to go now... I will continue later.

Very best wishes, Bill

[blue777]

Bill you are a Gentleman ,
and you would not and have not said anything derogatory about Kerry...infact you have always praised her..it sounds like lilith energy is coming out...
lol
blue

[Kikine]

OKay thats great that you are trying to protect camelot. It is a good thing Bill. Im sure you are doing your best for the world and i appreciate that. But maybe you are a bit exagerating with the heather material?? I dont know but what you did to Ben was not very nice in my opinion. Maybe you tried to protect camelot, but you should have tried to talk to him one on one maybe before starting all this thing. Communicating should have been used better than that. (Im just talking about this Ben/heather thing so I don t know about other problems you had.) Anyway have a great day Bill. I think we are loosing time here that could be use for more important things.

[Lee-B]

Thanks for the clarification of events, Bill. It puts an interesting slant on things. You have integrity and that in itself has to be admired.

[Tommy]

Bill, can you at least stop telling people what they want to hear? Much of this you are stating is not true. Sitting silently? Not bad-mouthing Kerry? How come we got ton's of e-mails stating the total opposite of what you are saying here? You have also not presented any evidence (at all!) regarding what you say about John Burns. How are you going to handle this if Kerry actually release some of the e-mails? Stop feeding people bull**** and show that you still got some dignity left. I can't believe you are doing this, and you must be fully aware that this will come back to haunt you?

All I am left with in relation to you Bill is lies, stalling, rudeness and broken promises.

Give us a break and show some humility. Psychological tactics like these rarely give you something good in return.

Sorry mate, but I can't stand on the sidelines watching this, you know that.

Tommy

[Kikine]

Interesting...

[Kikine]

okay this is really going stupid. serves nothing and helps nobody. Im out of this thread of none sense.

[Solace]

You are a good man, Bill. I hope you can continue your mission without further problems.

Edit: BTW, the "divide and conquer" thing seems to be working (even in camelot). This is sad. :(

[Tommy]

Ok Bill, questions for you:

- The links you agreed to put on avalon refering to the portal and the other sites. What happened? Was this not agreed on months ago now?
- You expect us to add this and that to the portal and etc while you never even reply to our questions regarding things not appearing like agreed on your site, how is that just?
- Someone in the translation crew posted "The Project Camelot translation\transcript crew has moved to avalon....." on the original library pages (that you keep insisting needs to be untouched), when we addressed the issue we did not get a response other than "John does not read your e-mails anymore", why? You keep seeking support because you got "locked out" of the original site, did it ever occur to you that non-agreed edits sending people over to avalon in the original archive might be seen as an issue?

- Do you now indirectly acknowledge that you did not follow the mission statements when dealing with Ben (Heather material)? Is this obvious now?
- Again I stress the link issue. You would rather link CNN than PC or PLW, why is that? Did you not agree to do this in the first place as a mutual gesture after we set up the portal? And we do btw still include you regardless of your unwillingness to do the same in return?
- Do you at all understand why we do not trust you any more? Honestly?

Thanks

All the best,

Tommy

[blue777]

You are a good man, Bill. I hope you can continue your mission without further problems.

Edit: BTW, the "divide and conquer" thing seems to be working (even in camelot). This is sad. :(

yes the divide and conquer or call it Dialectic thought...however Bill has been upright and has showed a lot of humility......yes it is dividing us up...but at least we will get to the truth
lol
blue
p.s seeingterra
quote:
All I am left with in relation to you Bill is lies, stalling, rudeness and broken promises.....

funny that is the opposite of the way I see him!!

[beyondmyctrl]

Wow , this is all very confusing . I'm still a newbie at all this , I haven't been awake for a long time so I'm catching up here basically . When I found PC I thought , ok , I've found the place where all my questions will ( if not answered ) at least be addressed . Then the whole PC vs ED happened and I thought , s**t ! . But I stayed with PC because they seemed way more credible than Dan B. Now there is this issue , and I'm not saying anyone's asking me to pick sides ( nor do I want to ) but it's the whole hesaid/she said again , I just don't know what to do !

I know a lot of people are going to say " just forget about it it's not important concentrate on your own awakening " but the problem is , PC was one of my greatest tools for awakening ! how can I use something that's broken and expect good results ! and I mean it's not just them , you have to realize , like I said earlier I'm playing "catch up " with all this so while I'm reading things here on PA I'm also researching other places and it seems like every time I find something I think makes sense, it seems that two minutes later I find someone who discredits them :) I know I know , you're probably thinking well, welcome to the world of disclosure and that's fine I guess , but, how do you navigate through all of this when you're not fully awake and having trouble following your own judgement ? Am I making any sense ? anyway it's not important I guess after all it's just my little world in the grand scheme and it's probably not all that important , I just wish I knew the truth ya know ? I feel my life coming apart at the seams right now and it's cool, it's scary ,it's a whole bunch of things at the same time, I've no problem with that , i'm pretty strong and can handle myself but I wish I could trust someone to help guide me ..... I guess I'll have to do it on my own ....

[SteveX]

SNIPPED
Ok Bill, questions for you:
- Do you now indirectly acknowledge that you did not follow the mission statements when dealing with Ben (Heather material)? Is this obvious now?


My 2 pence worth is that this is a non-issue. It would be relevant if the Heather material were factual and true. Being as the general consensus is that's its bogus Kerry is not only doing herself a disservice, by making a big deal out of it in public, Kerry is also doing Camelot and Avalon a disservice.

I don't understand why Kerry has essentially released a contactee story. That's all it is when you take out the Heather material.

[blue777]

My 2 pence worth is that this is a non-issue. It would be relevant if the Heather material were factual and true. Being as the general consensus is that's its bogus Kerry is not only doing herself a disservice, by making a big deal out of it in public, Kerry is also doing Camelot and Avalon a disservice.

I don't understand why Kerry has essentially released a contactee story. That's all it is when you take out the Heather material.

yes , I agree with you Steve
lol
blue

[Bill Ryan]

Ok Bill, questions for you:

- The links you agreed to put on avalon refering to the portal and the other sites. What happened? Was this not agreed on months ago now?
- You expect us to add this and that to the portal and etc while you never even reply to our questions regarding things not appearing like agreed on your site, how is that just?
- Someone in the translation crew posted "The Project Camelot translation\transcript crew has moved to avalon....." on the original library pages (that you keep insisting needs to be untouched), when we addressed the issue we did not get a response other than "John does not read your e-mails anymore", why? You keep seeking support because you got "locked out" of the original site, did it ever occur to you that non-agreed edits sending people over to avalon in the original archive might be seen as an issue?

- Do you now indirectly acknowledge that you did not follow the mission statements when dealing with Ben (Heather material)? Is this obvious now?
- Again I stress the link issue. You would rather link CNN than PC or PLW, why is that? Did you not agree to do this in the first place as a mutual gesture after we set up the portal? And we do btw still include you regardless of your unwillingness to do the same in return?
- Do you at all understand why we do not trust you any more? Honestly?

Thanks

All the best,

Tommy

OK, Tommy:

You're showing your true colors.

Ask me specific questions (1, 2, 3 etc) and I will answer them all in detail, depth, and with documented evidence. Be prepared. You have taken sides rather too early. I thought you were smarter than that. You don't even know me.

Everyone else, stay tuned. I've had enough of this. I told you earlier you didn't know the full story. And clearly you do not.

[bashi]

My 2 pence worth is that this is a non-issue. It would be relevant if the Heather material were factual and true. Being as the general consensus is that's its bogus Kerry is not only doing herself a disservice, by making a big deal out of it in public, Kerry is also doing Camelot and Avalon a disservice.



Yes, correct!

When i read her post, i thought of posting this, but i refrained myself, because if you attack, then where remains a proper discussion? It goes down the drain.
But seeing this attack by seeingterra, i can not any more hold it back:

Just look at Kerrys post here: Obviously she had not read the thread, otherwise why refering to something which did not happen? Stated by the guy involved! She just jumped in, posted a simple "Copy-Paste" statement and vanished into the light.
Is this her Due Diligence?
Can`t she just read these few posts and reply properly?
Is it not worth doing it?
Is it her way of saying: " I don't kerry any more?"


Mixing one thing with another does not help, terra. Missing links have nothing to do with the Heather material.
Its a least an off-spring, action-reaction type. But i dont know, just guessing.
But what i know is that your post does not contribute positively to a clearing discussion.

Maybe something is going on in your own forum, where you are looking for somebody else to blame.

Please use your laser light only on your warriors.



.

[Solace]

We are waiting Bill. Take your time.

Please, no more "stay tuned". We've had enough from Richard C. Hoagland. :D

[SPIRIT WOLF]

One thing I feel I must mention here. My handlers wish me to push the PLF issue more into the public domain. One reason for this is to bring the whole program life form issue up to date. You are all aware that the life forms I was involved with at the AL/499 facility were small grey drones. This was 30 years ago. Since that time with the advances in technology within the black world these simple, relatively, produced drones although still in production, have not been the only such created life forms. Virtually any being can be created now. It has been stated to me by insider sources whom I trust that among, among, the life forms created are indeed human, which you would refer to as clones, and altered/enhanced genetically, human types which are half human half computer system. My handlers have brought to my attention the possible values of others testimonies which detail these beings. I am not a fan of the disputed 'Heather material', a debacle being played out elsewhere, as I'm sitting on the fence re that, BUT the mention of such beings by several individuals points to the same program no matter what name its given. These beings ARE PLFs, no more no less. So when I speak of them, or indeed if Dr Greer speaks of PLFs these beings will be included.

[sunflower]

Hi Barry, thanks for clearing up PLF's and what they entail. I am gradually forming a clearer picture of what's at stake here. Takes a bit of time to become adjusted to the idea.

[blue777]

Bill, can you at least stop telling people what they want to hear? Much of this you are stating is not true. Sitting silently? Not bad-mouthing Kerry? How come we got ton's of e-mails stating the total opposite of what you are saying here? You have also not presented any evidence (at all!) regarding what you say about John Burns. How are you going to handle this if Kerry actually release some of the e-mails? Stop feeding people bull**** and show that you still got some dignity left. I can't believe you are doing this, and you must be fully aware that this will come back to haunt you?

All I am left with in relation to you Bill is lies, stalling, rudeness and broken promises.

Give us a break and show some humility. Psychological tactics like these rarely give you something good in return.

Sorry mate, but I can't stand on the sidelines watching this, you know that.

Tommy

I cannot believe that people have the audacity and cheek to have a go at Bill after all the time and effort he has put into these forums.,yes the divide and conquer or call it Dialectic thought is working here and why?.......the reason being is many think they have more authority than Bill, therefore it is an Ego battle....a lilith battle...vanity hate, etc ....and if you are anti Bill , What the F.....are you doing on this forum anyway...lets face it, the people who want us divided are laughing their heads off......however when it is time to be counted and the price is "Survival"...make sure you are on the right side................
p.s
It should READ... BERRY AND KILL..................The archetypal human FAILING...LOVE COMPASSION ALTRUISM goes directly out of the window...if we cannot hack it on a forum ..How can we hack in times of need...
pps..To keep this in proportion, Bill you spelt colours wrong , you forgot the U
..
lol to you all
blue

[monique]

I do not know if what I think is already included in this thread: for me no matter who wrote the report - "where there's smoke there's fire" - medical experiments on humans were indeed in nazi germany and I do not doubt it will be given continuity to this macabre designs. Same reason, we live under a nazi-fascist state in all the world. People are so afraid that they can even write with bad grammar, etc., for not to be discovered. Or tell someone that information be made the information public, who knows? This does not mean we need to believe everything ...
Best regards, Monique.

[Dougall]

How many of us have had break ups in our lives? Some of us have stressed out on splitting property, such as Houses cars boats etc.
Can you imagine a break up where intellectual property is being sorted and tested while others are joining in?

Bill - you have nothing to prove, I think most of us came over to this site because we enjoy your presentation of information. I am not here to choose sides however, the fact that I am here at Avalon 2 shows who I am inclined to listen to. If you feel like expanding on this thread I will be happy to read it. If you feel like passing on it I will completely understand.

The point I am making is that posters who come over here to chide Bill are wasting their time. Confrontational posts regarding E-mails and other personal spats are silly.

Let the Cards Fall Where They Fall

[monique]

Dear Tommy, whit all my respect, please, now each, Kerry and Bill, have their forum and there is no need for accusations and fights here. Take into account that Kerry is an adult woman, very intelligent and do not need a knight to defend her from any danger.
Best regards, Monique.

[SPIRIT WOLF]

Yes there were more than enough tinker-winkers at original forum we do not need the same pointless tinkerers here. No personal attacks, free speech and opinions by all means but no tinkerers.

[Ross]

Bill, can you at least stop telling people what they want to hear? Much of this you are stating is not true. Sitting silently? Not bad-mouthing Kerry? How come we got ton's of e-mails stating the total opposite of what you are saying here? You have also not presented any evidence (at all!) regarding what you say about John Burns. How are you going to handle this if Kerry actually release some of the e-mails? Stop feeding people bull**** and show that you still got some dignity left. I can't believe you are doing this, and you must be fully aware that this will come back to haunt you?

All I am left with in relation to you Bill is lies, stalling, rudeness and broken promises.

Give us a break and show some humility. Psychological tactics like these rarely give you something good in return.

Sorry mate, but I can't stand on the sidelines watching this, you know that.

Tommy

Hi Tommy,

Your opinion of Bill is insulting, calling him a liar, rude and with broken promises, lacking humility, and using psychological tactics is a gross, over the top paranoid opinion, and as these are insulting statements, you are in breach of the guidelines and the spirit of AV2. Take this as a reminder, that you need to reflect on your writing style and avoid insults. You were also quick of the mark to state on PA1 the tech issues we were experiencing and the causes. You were completely wrong on this 'outside analysis' of yours.

Regards
Ross.

[SteveX]

OK, Tommy:

You're showing your true colors.

Ask me specific questions (1, 2, 3 etc) and I will answer them all in detail, depth, and with documented evidence. Be prepared. You have taken sides rather too early. I thought you were smarter than that. You don't even know me.

Everyone else, stay tuned. I've had enough of this. I told you earlier you didn't know the full story. And clearly you do not.





the suicide squeeze is on! Here he comes, squeeze
play, it's gonna be close, here's the throw, here's the play at the plate, holy cow, I
think he's gonna make it!


From the words of “paradise by a dashboard light.”


STOP RIGHT THERE.



Bill, it’s your play but consider a few things before you post the reply to Kerry’s forum moderator Tommy. Who posted the Heather & Ben story? Why was it posted? What does it matter? Are you taking the bait?

I trust you will consider this. It’s your decision.

[watchZEITGEISTnow]

Yes there were more than enough tinker-winkers at original forum we do not need the same pointless tinkerers here. No personal attacks, free speech and opinions by all means but no tinkerers.

Would it be OK for someone to question information you bring forth for example? Would you take that as a personal attack?

I think anyone who brings forth information without credible proof should be clearly marked and put in the "Might be. Might not be true category". I think some people want to project themselves as superheros or some fantastical being of experience that we mere mortals must look up to and praise (for ego) in these recent times. One thing is anyone that has an open mind, free of control from other people, you start to see a trend with 'these types'... they tend to over compensate for their lack of - well anything. Excuses are a HUGE red flag for people who lie. Perhaps they are victim of mind control themselves and don't know what they're doing - but there will always (for now) be an element of someone wanting to be something they are not.

I'm for a poll - who believes this story, who doesn't, and unsure as 3 possible sections to vote on.

[Enlightenment101]

Ok Im new here, but Im not new to Kerry and Bill's interviews, and I am also very up front and honest, those of you who dont know that lol will figure that out, Now I Listened to Kerry's interview with Ben about his story and Heathers, and of all the interviews Ive heard from PC that had to have been the worst, the interview was all over the place, and it was hard to follow, one minute he was talking two Aliens and sleeping out in a car because his mother inlaw didnt like him and the next about his brother in law and his apartment, I couldnt figure out if he was a friend of Heathers or if his wife was, or his mother in law. to be honest there didnt seem to be any clear cut connection in that interview to Ben and how he knew Heather, notes of Heathers were there the notes were hard to follow, it went from some whacked out lab where they used humans, to some base where she was being kept almost jailed like by aliens, until one set her free, to be honest I felt like I was reading some B rated Scifi book, and the book was bad and all over the place, I was left feeling that the info was crap,

[SPIRIT WOLF]

Would it be OK for someone to question information you bring forth for example? Would you take that as a personal attack?

I think anyone who brings forth information without credible proof should be clearly marked and put in the "Might be. Might not be true category". I think some people want to project themselves as superheros or some fantastical being of experience that we mere mortals must look up to and praise (for ego) in these recent times. One thing is anyone that has an open mind, free of control from other people, you start to see a trend with 'these types'... they tend to over compensate for their lack of - well anything. Excuses are a HUGE red flag for people who lie. Perhaps they are victim of mind control themselves and don't know what they're doing - but there will always (for now) be an element of someone wanting to be something they are not.

I'm for a poll - who believes this story, who doesn't, and unsure as 3 possible sections to vote on.
Not at all, I welcome questions and over the years have told people to do your own research, never take anyones word for it. I have been around disclosing for many years and not a newbie whom might have garnered a story from many sources around the internet. My post was valid, look at all the nonsense wishy washy posting done at original PA by those you describe as self important egotists whom thought it was great to ramble on about mediocre issues or start slagging off anyone whom did not conform with their beliefs.

[Enlightenment101]

Well the interview was bad, no way around that, and if we are waiting for any Doc 's or CD or whatever it is, I dont think they will be coming,

[tone3jaguar]

Psychological tactics like these rarely give you something good in return.

Psychological tactics? Anyone can make ambiguous statements not tied into any actual happenings. If it is effecting your psychology then perhaps it has nothing to do with anything outside of yourself.

[blue777]

Not at all, I welcome questions and over the years have told people to do your own research, never take anyones word for it. I have been around disclosing for many years and not a newbie whom might have garnered a story from many sources around the internet. My post was valid, look at all the nonsense wishy washy posting done at original PA by those you describe as self important egotists whom thought it was great to ramble on about mediocre issues or start slagging off anyone whom did not conform with their beliefs.

I agree with with these sentiments
quote:
My post was valid, look at all the nonsense wishy washy posting done at original PA by those you describe as self important egotists whom thought it was great to ramble on about mediocre issues or start slagging off anyone whom did not conform with their beliefs.

Therefore we should have a vote on the Heather subject to see ,how people feel about it, also ,it is a battle between Kerry and Bill and people are taking sides , definately a divide and rule tactic, thirdly, If Bill thought it was a falsehood , there has to be a reason for this , and Kerry has to back up her intuition....Therefore who is right and who is wrong.......they both are, and the reason being that vanity EGO is getting in the way of Reason...How can we find out if it is truth or not , have a vote about it on both forums......My own personal opinion is , if it was based on Ockhams razor were Bill was trying to get rid of unnecessary information out of the way to get to the truth...all well and good. If the Heather writing was created for EGO purposes , the question is why? and there are many things which are being done which will blow our minds...i always keep mine open...As adults we should work this one out ..it is a learning cycle
lol
blue
lets have a vote on it and finish it

[Ixopoborn]

Ok Im new here, but Im not new to Kerry and Bill's interviews, and I am also very up front and honest, those of you who dont know that lol will figure that out, Now I Listened to Kerry's interview with Ben about his story and Heathers, and of all the interviews Ive heard from PC that had to have been the worst, the interview was all over the place, and it was hard to follow, one minute he was talking two Aliens and sleeping out in a car because his mother inlaw didnt like him and the next about his brother in law and his apartment, I couldnt figure out if he was a friend of Heathers or if his wife was, or his mother in law. to be honest there didnt seem to be any clear cut connection in that interview to Ben and how he knew Heather, notes of Heathers were there the notes were hard to follow, it went from some whacked out lab where they used humans, to some base where she was being kept almost jailed like by aliens, until one set her free, to be honest I felt like I was reading some B rated Scifi book, and the book was bad and all over the place, I was left feeling that the info was crap,

I couldn’t agree more Enlightenment101.

I have said before that the Kerry Bill bust up is saddening to me but perfectly understandable.

Kerry's greatest asset is her dynamo energy reserve. Well functioning teams do better with the inclusion of an individual like Kerry who can add energy to the task of getting work done. So, in my opinion, world needs lots of people like Kerry.

That said, like you, Enlightenment101, I believe Kerry's Ben interview was very badly organised and, quite frankly a little embassassing. Previously, Kerry has defended her interview style of jumping from one topic to another with the valid point that this is aimed at testing the veracity of the interviewee's account - a kind of deliberate tactic aimed at getting the interviewer to reveal maybe more than he or she originally intended.

For me, this defence only goes so far. I have for a long time felt that Kerry maybe trying to make a virtue here out of a failing. The failing being, she is not good at running an interview to a plan and so does the next best thing instead. Kerry's interviewing style can have dramatically good effects in terms in interviewee revelations. Other times, she crashes and burns as we have seen with the above-mentioned interview.

On the other hand, I think Bill's analytical judgement is absolutely excellent. He has a fine academic brain which shines through almost always. So this, I think, explains why so many fine interviews were made by Bill and Kerry. Bill doing a lot background checking before any interview was agreed and being there to bring the interview back on track if Kerry lost her way.

I suspect that Kerry hardly noticed Bill's huge contribution to the sucess of the Camelot interviews and probably felt frustrated by what see saw as his "knit picking" corrections. The trouble is they weren't "knit picking" but, rather, essential interventions to maintain Camelot quality.

I question Kerry's judgement in publishing the Ben interview as if I had made an interview of that poor quality, I would have been too ashamed see it published. In fact, this calls into question whether Kerry is good at differentiating between good work and work which should be chucked. I suspect she is fantastically poor at making these distinctions. I further suspect that Kerry has absolutely no idea that she is poor in this area.

I seems that Bill must have found the situation just as frustrating as Kerry for these reasons. The perfect mix for a bust up!

I was shocked to learn that Kerry locked Bill out of Camelot! Boy oh boy, it seems Kerry can be fiesty at times.

This thread has, unfortunately, turned into a place for washing dirty linen which is not ideal. However, having got this far, the matter should be allowed to run to conclusion. Let the information come forth. No doubt the division between Bill and Kerry will be accentuated in this process and, as a result, some people will need to leave the Avalon forum.

Personally, I want to support Bill and his band of helpers. His approach suits me fine. I hope Kerry can find someone equal to Bill to restore much needed quality to her work. Then, everyone wins. Internal skirmishes are sometimes essential. When this one is over, we need to reunite and focus again on the real work at hand - doing all we can to help the world's people through what is likely to be a revolutionary change with as little damage as possible.

[K626]

My 2 pence worth is that this is a non-issue. It would be relevant if the Heather material were factual and true. Being as the general consensus is that's its bogus Kerry is not only doing herself a disservice, by making a big deal out of it in public, Kerry is also doing Camelot and Avalon a disservice.

I don't understand why Kerry has essentially released a contactee story. That's all it is when you take out the Heather material.

Second that Steve.

[Lily de Cuir]

I couldn’t agree more Enlightenment101.

I have said before that the Kerry Bill bust up is saddening to me but perfectly understandable.

Kerry's greatest asset is her dynamo energy reserve. Well functioning teams do better with the inclusion of an individual like Kerry who can add energy to the task of getting work done. So, in my opinion, world needs lots of people like Kerry.

That said, like you, Enlightenment101, I believe Kerry's Ben interview was very badly organised and, quite frankly a little embassassing. Previously, Kerry has defended her interview style of jumping from one topic to another with the valid point that this is aimed at testing the veracity of the interviewee's account - a kind of deliberate tactic aimed at getting the interviewer to reveal maybe more than he or she originally intended.

For me, this defence only goes so far. I have for a long time felt that Kerry maybe trying to make a virtue here out of a failing. The failing being, she is not good at running an interview to a plan and so does the next best thing instead. Kerry's interviewing style can have dramatically good effects in terms in interviewee revelations. Other times, she crashes and burns as we have seen with the above-mentioned interview.

On the other hand, I think Bill's analytical judgement is absolutely excellent. He has a fine academic brain which shines through almost always. So this, I think, explains why so many fine interviews were made by Bill and Kerry. Bill doing a lot background checking before any interview was agreed and being there to bring the interview back on track if Kerry lost her way.

I suspect that Kerry hardly noticed Bill's huge contribution to the sucess of the Camelot interviews and probably felt frustrated by what see saw as his "knit picking" corrections. The trouble is they weren't "knit picking" but, rather, essential interventions to maintain Camelot quality.

I question Kerry's judgement in publishing the Ben interview as if I had made an interview of that poor quality, I would have been too ashamed see it published. In fact, this calls into question whether Kerry is good at differentiating between good work and work which should be chucked. I suspect she is fantastically poor at making these distinctions. I further suspect that Kerry has absolutely no idea that she is poor in this area.

I seems that Bill must have found the situation just as frustrating as Kerry for these reasons. The perfect mix for a bust up!

I was shocked to learn that Kerry locked Bill out of Camelot! Boy oh boy, it seems Kerry can be fiesty at times.

This thread has, unfortunately, turned into a place for washing dirty linen which is not ideal. However, having got this far, the matter should be allowed to run to conclusion. Let the information come forth. No doubt the division between Bill and Kerry will be accentuated in this process and, as a result, some people will need to leave the Avalon forum.

Personally, I want to support Bill and his band of helpers. His approach suits me fine. I hope Kerry can find someone equal to Bill to restore much needed quality to her work. Then, everyone wins. Internal skirmishes are sometimes essential. When this one is over, we need to reunite and focus again on the real work at hand - doing all we can to help the world's people through what is likely to be a revolutionary change with as little damage as possible.

Exopoborn, I couldn't agree with you more. A very incisive and to-the-point summary. Your view cuts to the core of the matter. In particular my view is that Kerry has not had respect for Bill, which has been glaringly evident in interviews and has made me cringe more than once when viewing and listening.

I agree, that this matter must run it's course. You can't just say, 'forget it, it's embarrassing, let them sort it out in private'. It's gone too far and it's too public. Let them both have their say, get it out, let people comment. Then it's done. And we move on.

Bill, I want to hear your side of story. I sense their is a lot to tell and you deserve to have your say.

Kind regards,
Lily de Cuir

I'm being a pedant I know: 'there is a lot to tell'....I am new here, trying to get off on the right foot! lol....humour me...

[Daft Ada]

Well said Ixopoborn, I hadn't been reading this thread until my wife told me what was going on, so I had a look at it. I was very sad at what I found. I was excited when this forum was set up that at last we were going to get away from all this kind of posting and upset, but here we go again.
As I read the pages a post was formulating in my mind, and then I read yours. No point in me making the post now as yours said everything I would have.
I do feel however that because this is all in the public domain, the argument as to whether it should be is void. It is, and that's that, So I feel Bill should certainly put things straight and clear up the situation. I have never under any circumstances doubted Bills integrity, that's why I am here, and I am sure his explanations will be nothing but honest and trustworthy.

[winnasboy]

Hi all, This is my first post here. As a newcomer to this forum and having read all the previous posts in this thread, I am now wondering whether I made the right choice by being here. The last thing that I expected to find was Bill and Kerry arguing in public, although I think I understand the reasons of them both. However, with regard to a vote, surely by being here at all we have already made clear our preference for the way Bill presents information. Someone needs to say this - sort it out, this forum resembles a kindergarten at present. Let us concentrate on helping other people to understand our mission instead of bickering amongst ourselves.

Regards and love

[kevlor]

i support bill 100%. i support kerry 100%

BUTT OUT EVERYBODY ELSE

[SteveX]

Second that Steve.

Thanks for that.

The Heather information relies on you believing it, nothing more nothing less. If you don't, one is left to conclude its nothing other than one or two time wasters.

Should Bill bat back the charges set by Kerry and Tommy, this is the central point. I’m afraid it is a case of having to discredit Heather and Ben, point by point publicly, to prove Bill didn’t jeopardize a real whistleblower. Obviously, to do so, which is quite easy in my opinion, is a loose loose situation.

Kerry’s argument would be seen as a non-issue. Her action of pushing an invalid case would be seen to be vindictive in the light of this, an extension of the split. This in turn would see Kerry as exploiting Ben for her own issues.

Ben, unfortunately, irrespective of his intentions is between the Devil and the deep blue sea. Kerry has now set Ben up like a ten pin skittle. Which as you will appreciate is counter to her argument of protecting her source. Bill, in order to clear the charge is now forced to knock Ben over.

Bill, seemingly to have cleared his name, will also be discredited in this public menage a trois. This quasi trial may have repercussions on Camelot and Avalon.

[Ailée]

it's the whole hesaid/she said again , I just don't know what to do !

the problem is , PC was one of my greatest tools for awakening ! how can I use something that's broken and expect good results ! and I mean it's not just them , you have to realize , like I said earlier I'm playing "catch up " with all this so while I'm reading things here on PA I'm also researching other places and it seems like every time I find something I think makes sense, it seems that two minutes later I find someone who discredits them :)

how do you navigate through all of this when you're not fully awake and having trouble following your own judgement ?

Greetings beyondmyctrl,

I felt touched by your post.

Awakening is indeed a process. And once you're somehow out of the Matrix, another process starts (if one wants to separate processes) which is to learn and discover how we now relate ?

How is it that we go about in this "new" context ?

Well, it seems to me you provided the very best answer one can find : find, not only as an answer to the question, but as a process in itself !


I guess I'll have to do it on my own ....

Not that you won't have support, mind you, but that indeed a crucial - if not the most crucial - part of the process, IMHO, is precisely to learn how you can rely on yourself to make informed judgments and sound decisions.

It's basically you teaching yourself.

May I point out one of those pesky details... ?

Would you look at your pseudo and reflect on what you're preparing for yourself with this ?

Tools brake to the extend that you see them broken. Or that they just don't serve you anymore.

Trust that your road is going forward, and that your process is in the best hands ever ... yours.

Love to you

:wave:


---


As long as I am in this thread, I would like to send you, Bill, my deepest appreciation.

Indeed we are all in a learning process, on many levels. I wish you the free attention necessary to weigh your choices in balance, keeping the focus on what really matters to you.

Love to all,

El

[bashi]

There is a reason why Bill has started this thread.
My guess is that he needed to have a platform where he can clear some things up in the open.
In PA1 he just kept quiet publically and let things happen, but now he decided to make an open stand.
I think that is his right, considering the issue at hand, specially within a Forum. Its also fair for the participants of PA1 who were left in the dark with their questions.

That its going to be a rough ride is clear from the onset.

So Billy the Kid: SHOOT ! I have my tin foil helmet at hand....

.

[shybastid]

I have read transcripts of probaly 80% of all Camelot Transcripts as soon as they were posted.(I have NOT see Heather Video and won't)
How much of the Transcripts do I take as FACT? I don't really know. They all gave me new idea's and different prosectives from all different kinds of people from different walks of life. That alone was/is worth the price of admission.
Ummmm FREE.
Except my reading time. That was on me.
I respect Bill and Kerry's due dilience to TRY and find people with idea's that were unavailible to me in other reading forums.
Thanks Bill and Kerry... You helped open my eyes.
Keep up the good work.
I hope no one was really hurt by either one of your positions in the past,and we get more insider information.
Hey.. we're all here to learn right? From each other too, right?

Peace

[qbeac]

i support bill 100%. i support kerry 100%
I support kevlor’s opinion 100%:

I support Bill 100%. I support Kerry 100%.

I support Project Camelot 100% (Kerry and Bill, Bill and Kerry), a GREAT team who have helped to awaken thousands/millions of people.

In my opinion, bumps on the road should not become an excuse to give up, but an opportunity to improve the system, because, as a Spanish saying goes: “what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.”

Kerry is not perfect, she has defects and virtues.

Bill is not perfect, he has defects and virtues.

Anybody who is perfect (I mean “human beings”, not PLF, clones, etc.), please, raise your hand.

In any case, Kerry and Bill’s peculiar mixture of their respective defects and virtues is a GREAT explosive “positive bomb” to awaken people and change this world for the better.

Btw, I liked Dr. Greer’s interview because, even though it was not “perfect”, that imperfection perhaps made Dr. Greer say many more valuable things which he wouldn’t have said in a “perfect” interview. At the end of the day, the whole world benefited from that “imperfection.”

So, I thank both Kerry and Bill for that “imperfect” interview.

In summary, let’s use this bump on the road as an opportunity to improve everything (ourselves personally, PC, this forum, the system, the protocols, etc.), let’s overcome the bump and let’s focus on the main goals:


Main goals:

To help awaken as much people as possible (the critical mass), so that we can avoid potential terrible future timelines, alleviate the suffering of human kind, and contribute to bring a better future for humanity: peace, justice, love.

Let’s not be fooled by the illuminati’s tactic: Divide and conquer. (colour red for “danger!!!”)

Let’s focus on our tactic: Unity makes us stronger.

But this last tactic can only be achieved through the path of forgiveness, compassion, love, etc… you all know this already.

Take care everybody and have a nice day. qbeac.

P.S. Perhaps a good operational PROTOCOL would help to handle this risky situations of trying to discern info from disinfo.

In another post I’ll comment further on this topic and will give a few ideas I’ve had about the elements such a protocol should include, for instance:

Protecting witness confidentiality, requirements for the vetting of witnesses, considering somebody “innocent until proven guilty”, protecting its right to honour, putting controversial info “on hold” until we find further data that allows us to be able to judge it better, etc.

[Enlightenment101]

Divide and conquer thing goes so far, but it doesnt explain a very bad interview, Im sorry it just doesnt, Bill and Kerry helped me alot with the journey Ive been on for a few years now, and introduced me to people like David Wilcox who I deeply love to listen too and Jordan Maxwell, Bob Dean and George Green and last but not least Jim Marrs, the information those people brought to the table was easy to look into, and locate the facts, I couldnt do that with the Ben Story or Heather story, instead it was like watching a dog chase his tail and going no where while doing it, Like I said Im new to this site but Im not new to their work and their Video's Ive been watching them for along time, and Ive been enlightened by both of them, and frankly its disappointing that the forum part is gone, and replaced by radio station interviews, now as in any relationship Im sorry about the split, but I find it childish that people come here and attack Bill on this forum, over a story that he seems to be completely right about, now the story could be real, but that main idea seems to be to me, Doc facts have not been handed over, instead alot of excuses, if you claim to have Doc proof to what you are saying and tell people you will hand it over then dont and make excuses then something is wrong with the story itself, Do I believe they have done test like that on Humans, yes I do, do I believe Aliens are involved , yes I do, but come on people its not hard to figure out there is something wrong here after you listen to the whole interview, I understand Bill's concerns after hearing it,

[Celine]

How incredibly unprofessional.

The mandate of both these forums should NEVER be public discussion IMO (doesnt mean to keep it secret)

The paragraph following, shows the "tactics" being used. Stating that Bill said "something to this effect" and putting it in quotes, makes it look like Bill said those exact words...did he Kerry?

Unfortunately, Bill Ryan recently decided that the statement of confidentiality and secrecy was to be amended to say in essence "if I, Bill Ryan, decide subsequently, that the story told to us in confidence is false or misleading I will then take it upon myself to out the witness and thereby reveal our "source" to the world, putting their lives and the lives of their loved ones in danger, as well as violating the clear implied and expressed agreement that we have established in writing previously with them and to the world...."




Threatening to share emails? Tommy? really? You all gotta be kidding me.

If lives are at stake than ANY public discussion is not only uncalled for but negligent.

This thread has NOTHINg to do with the validity of the Heather Materiel.

Bill and Kerry want to vent publicly it seems...for more then one reason

1- Because all of us here are part of rumour mills that have helped to perpetuate mis information

2- Because it is not only a professional break up, there are personal emotions involved.

3- Because It creates "ratings"

People are talking a lot about Pa ...PC....what do they say in Hollywood Kerry? Bad publicity is still publicity... How are your numbers doing ?


Perhaps this kind of discord feeds all ...and this is the end result we get.

WE have two choices...swallow it...or leave.

IMHO..

[Ixopoborn]

Again I find agreement with pretty much all Enlightenment101 has just stated.

[blue777]

How incredibly unprofessional.

The mandate of both these forums should NEVER be public discussion IMO (doesnt mean to keep it secret)

The paragraph following, shows the "tactics" being used. Stating that Bill said "something to this effect" and putting it in quotes, makes it look like Bill said those exact words...did he Kerry?

Unfortunately, Bill Ryan recently decided that the statement of confidentiality and secrecy was to be amended to say in essence "if I, Bill Ryan, decide subsequently, that the story told to us in confidence is false or misleading I will then take it upon myself to out the witness and thereby reveal our "source" to the world, putting their lives and the lives of their loved ones in danger, as well as violating the clear implied and expressed agreement that we have established in writing previously with them and to the world...."




Threatening to share emails? Tommy? really? You all gotta be kidding me.

If lives are at stake than ANY public discussion is not only uncalled for but negligent.

This thread has NOTHINg to do with the validity of the Heather Materiel.

Bill and Kerry want to vent publicly it seems...for more then one reason

1- Because all of us here are part of rumour mills that have helped to perpetuate mis information

2- Because it is not only a professional break up, there are personal emotions involved.

3- Because It creates "ratings"

People are talking a lot about Pa ...PC....what do they say in Hollywood Kerry? Bad publicity is still publicity... How are your numbers doing ?


Perhaps this kind of discord feeds all ...and this is the end result we get.

WE have two choices...swallow it...or leave.

IMHO..

The problem here is, we have to find out if the Heather data is based on truth or falsehood, and if it was a falsehood then it was created by the EGO...Self Grandiose...secondly if it is true how will it effect the ordinary person? due to the fact we are in cyber -space...anyone can write what they like truth or falsehood...and being on this forum , many would believe them.....therefore there has to be a better way of discerning the truth on the internet, even written evidence could be made up.

As qbear quoted ,the main objective of the forum is:
To help awaken as much people as possible (the critical mass), so that we can avoid potential terrible future timelines, alleviate the suffering of human kind, and contribute to bring a better future for humanity: peace, justice, love....
AS YOU CAN SEE ALL POSITIVE TRAITS.....It seems to me that the Heather data is showing us the way forward in both discernment and scrutinizing the evidence from a whistle blower......the only thing that is collective is the collective intuitive sound ...harmonic resonance.....if the mass think something is not right..intuitively.. then will have to challenge it...sympathetic resonance........we have to think in a deep spiritual way now
lol
blue

[Celine]

i see no productivity resulting in pages and pages of opinions on whether or not the materiel is legit.

This thread is NOT about the legitimacy of the materiel. IMO

[blue777]

i see no productivity resulting in pages and pages of opinions on whether or not the materiel is legit.

This thread is NOT about the legitimacy of the materiel. IMO

IF THAT IS NOT THE CASE ......then there is no argument........COURSE IT IS ABOUT TRUTH OR fALSEHOOD...what else can it be about.....it is the archetypal battle between Light and Darkness
lol
therefore to discern darkness now we have to do it on mass intuitively...sympathetic resonance

[Tommy]

OK, Tommy:

You're showing your true colors.

Ask me specific questions (1, 2, 3 etc) and I will answer them all in detail, depth, and with documented evidence. Be prepared. You have taken sides rather too early. I thought you were smarter than that. You don't even know me.

Everyone else, stay tuned. I've had enough of this. I told you earlier you didn't know the full story. And clearly you do not.

Yes, so you keep saying.

If you wish you can copy and refer to the last e-mail I sent you (no secrecy there), I will leave the ball in your field for now.

To everyone else; Things are not always what they appear to be.

[Richard]

It is the archetypal battle between Light and Darkness
lol
therefore to discern darkness now we have to do it on mass intuitively...sympathetic resonance

Wow blue, well said and summed up. I agree wholeheartedly too but do you think this is really the case here?

[Enlightenment101]

As they appear to be? are you talking about the material itself? or this High School drama fest going on that is clouding the issue itself?

[PINEAL-PILOT-IN MERKABAH]

this is a rather long thread. after the last forum debacle on avalon 1 shouldnt we put this to bed now... i couldnt even be bothered to listen to the heather material. no interest whatsoever after looking at a few bits of information on it in previouse threads. i think it was the bill ryan pdf.. did it for me anyway.. ive niot been on this forum for awhile and was hoping all the silly arguments over nothing would be gone sigh.. its like arguing over et's species and where they come from lol, zero evidence provided by a living human so far. only hearsay and whistleblowers.

[Richard]

To everyone else; Things are not always what they appear to be.

And sometimes, things are exactly as they appear to be.
Except to the uninformed or ignorant who fill in their blanks with their own set of fictional truths.

[Ixopoborn]

And sometimes, things are exactly as they appear to be.
Except to the uninformed or ignorant who fill in their blanks with their own set of fictional truths.

Well said Richard. It would be better if seeingterra stated what he means clearly rather than obtusely hint at things so that we can see what he intends to be!

edit to correct spelling

[blue777]

Wow blue, well said and summed up. I agree wholeheartedly too but do you think this is really the case here?

Yes I do Richard , due to the fact, it is getting harder to discern truth from falsehood on cyber-space....and data can be manufactured , therefore there has to be a spiritual dimension, where a group like this, can discern the truth. This comes from intuition ,linked to a collective consciousness , which creates sympathetic resonace..positve sound.....If a group has a feeling that the information is from darkness(ignorance)...vanity ,hate etc, then the truth has been discerned...the paradigm shift of consciousness is to the divine feminine . Love compassion altruism.......and the 4th is collective intuition...positive sound ..sympathetic resonance
lol
blue

[Richard]

....If a group has a feeling that the information is from darkness(ignorance)...vanity ,hate etc, then the truth has been discerned...the paradigm shift of consciousness is to the divine feminie . Love compassion altruism.......and the 4th is collective intuition...positive sound ..sympathetic resonance
lol
blue

Love your way of thinking and I totally resonate with what you're saying. Allow me to play a little devils advocate here and pose a hypothetical question to you. Based on that principle, if a group is divided on their discernment, say for example 40% believe some info is true and the other 60% feel it's as you said, "from darkness(ignorance) hate, vanity etc" what then? what happens when a group of very like-minded people are divided almost down the middle on something deeply important to them?

[kinsuemei2]

This whole thread is crazy, I did not want this brought up in Bill forum BECAUSE of this nonsense! I am pissed off with the lot of you now, I even had ROSS stop this very topic that was a thread created by Heretic, nothing against heretic of course he was doing what he thought was right.

But it serves so show how much I don't want certain things discussed, Heather herself from GERMANY so I am told DOES not want this DISCUSSED, so please for the love of god... shut up!!!
You either believe it or not, it does not matter, if you do great... if not... go look at some chem trails or something way more deserving of your time and energy because the bottom line is this

Bill does not have the first clue what is going on, or what has been done behind the scenes, Kerry has a dam good idea, trust her judgement because she has MORE INFORMATION than you ALL, and incidentally this is that was the first time I have ever spoke to Kerry in person, I was nervous and yes i don't converse with people well in real life situations or on the phone, so i am sorry, if Camelot interviews anybody who does ANYTHING out of your NORM you can jump on them, because of your EXPERT TRAINING!!! in psychology, sorry if a couple thousand Tom cruises running around think I am GLIB!
You think after what happened we would tell BILL anything? NO, you think we will tell you anything NO! this is not about you, its not about my reputation or social status this is about the bigger picture, that you have complete lost focus of the issue.

And why can't most of you comprehend past issues and put them together logically, Go back read, most of you get half the story and draw your conclusion with not really having any real clue whats going on, most say the Pete Peterson interview was crap, because they did not witness the full conversation that was probably EPIC!!!, it comes down to this because I am way too tired to deal with this, either close this thread or Ban me, because as long as I am here this is going to come up over and over again and how can I trust you lot to treat me with any kind of respect after the damage that is being done? Honestly this is much bigger than I am, and I remember the way John Lear was treated in AV1 as well, but I am nothing like John Lear he is an amazing individual in my opinion.

I know this, Kerry and I talked for a long time in skype, texts chats you name it, your guessing it was a one time thing, but you of course that's wrong, and guess what the ONLY correspondence I ever had from Bill was when he banned me,THATS when I made other accounts trying to get back in, he dose not know me, my past, my family, my life, and neither do any of you, and I Thought in my naivety that at least here I would have some semblance of support, and my friends are my friends and I value them this is not directed at you, but to those who don't listen, don't read, don't research and really don't know anything and continue..... THEY continue to generalize things.

Unless you have seen my email inbox with email bombs and such don't presume this is about anything other than the truth because I will personally tell you that your talking ****. You all want to know the truth SOOO much not one of you have asked me about heather, only the mods have, or ex mods, so come to me ask me.

Bill these are MY true colors I have always maintained I am a aggressive guy filled with lots of anger, but I am not angry with you, I am Frustrated with the people in the world that still don't seem to get it, still falling into this trap of reasoning and if your now not in our matrix you are untruthful, so this is what it has come to the matrix, the awake , yet if your not up to the AWAKES standards of normal, your branded. Again all I see right now is another box with people in it just programmed at a higher level, and we want to ascend in three years?

Well This is what breaks my heart and my spirit, and I can no longer be here surrounded by this, negativity directed towards me its not good for myself or my children, its bigger than me yeah, but I will only take so much, and I do not have David Ickes fortitude, when I get pushed, I get mad, and I push back harder until something gives, and that's not the right thing for me to do in this situation because, whilst I am pulling my hair out at most peoples stupid opinions when they are not in full possession of the facts, or continually get them wrong then its not their fault.

just cancel my membership because this is doing us all more harm than good, this is no good for you or me or the problems at hand, I have no opinion on you and Kerry Bill because I do not know you at all, and that's the point you never once tried or extended your hand to me in anyway, as you and I will always be at opposite ends of the fence and I do not have the time to do this with you my friend, I do have real work to do in these matters and say what you will about me, but when the time comes make sure your stood shoulder to shoulder with me and not behind me.

I am sorry I don't want to offend anybody but I am really really angry, I feel great guilt over Kerry and Bill, and I understand there was so much that happened beyond this, but so many people have told me directly this is MY fault you tend to believe it.

[Enlightenment101]

Excuse me Sr and trust me that isnt the real word I wanted to use ,
But didnt YOU bring all this out in the open? didnt YOU do the inetrview?
You brought this all on yourself, no one dragged YOU kicking and screaming, and the first rule Sr in the Awaking process would be to study and review and weed out the bull crap. anyone who takes any information at face value with out looking into it and doing homework is a complete idiot, Now if I hurt your feelings with what I said about the interview Im not sure what to say to you on that issue, but then again after hearing interviews from David Wilcox , Jim Marrs. and Jordan Maxwell, and a few others one can not help but being left with a feeling of disappointment,
And if Heather didnt want this discussed or even you, then why come out with it to begin with? now you explain that to me, and trust me on this Sr YOU are not the only one in the History of the world to have gone through this,

[Celine]

Wise man once said to me...

Expectations lead to disappointments

[Enlightenment101]

lol Celine you crack me up

[Bill Ryan]

Things are not always what they appear to be.

Tommy, I think we agree.



[no further substantial information of any kind]

Ben, send ANYONE you trust copies of the 30 CDs who can communicate openly and intelligently.

If they exist and if this is authentic material, I'll eat my hat on camera.

There... that should motivate you :)

[Celine]

Excuse me Sr and trust me that isnt the real word I wanted to use ,
But didnt YOU bring all this out in the open? didnt YOU do the inetrview?
You brought this all on yourself, no one dragged YOU kicking and screaming, and the first rule Sr in the Awaking process would be to study and review and weed out the bull crap. anyone who takes any information at face value with out looking into it and doing homework is a complete idiot, Now if I hurt your feelings with what I said about the interview Im not sure what to say to you on that issue, but then again after hearing interviews from David Wilcox , Jim Marrs. and Jordan Maxwell, and a few others one can not help but being left with a feeling of disappointment,
And if Heather didnt want this discussed or even you, then why come out with it to begin with? now you explain that to me, and truth me on this Sr YOU are not the only one in the History of the world to have gone through this,

Ben did NOT start this thread...his request has always been to NOT re open the discussion. Bill started the thread

[Enlightenment101]

I didnt mean the thread, Im talking the story itself

[Celine]

i'm sorry then Enlightenment101.. but perhaps i say it that way...because this thread , i belive is not , about the validity of the information, as i mentioned.

And Ben has a right to be pissed off.

[Fredkc]

Ok, as there appears to be no "upside" in this thing, I will drop two pieces of advice from my Mom:

1. Never get dragged into "Let's you and him fight".

...and this applies to sores, wounds of all depth, and the occasional social discourse:
2. "Don't pick it! It'll never heal!"

... and with that I will quietly slink away,
Fred

[Enlightenment101]

Bill I have a question? at the time this story appeared to Camelot, were you still involved with the website PC?

¤=[Post Update]=¤

<< Grabs Fred .. get back here :)

[blue777]

Love your way of thinking and I totally resonate with what you're saying. Allow me to play a little devils advocate here and pose a hypothetical question to you. Based on that principle, if a group is divided on their discernment, say for example 40% believe some info is true and the other 60% feel it's as you said, "from darkness(ignorance) hate, vanity etc" what then? what happens when a group of very like-minded people are divided almost down the middle on something deeply important to them?

simple , that is what you have leaders for, they make the final decision.....is Bill not a leader
lol
blue

[blue777]

Tommy, I think we agree.



Ben, send ANYONE you trust copies of the 30 CDs who can communicate openly and intelligently.

If they exist and if this is authentic material, I'll eat my hat on camera.

There... that should motivate you :)

quote:Things are not always what they appear to be........Yes I also agree with this......
secondly Tom you cannot tell us what we can or cannot discuss on our forum..THERE ARE A LOT OF INTELLIGENT AND INFLUENTIAL PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM also your data is being discussed on other forums......and thirdly I take my hat off to you Bill..............I think SURVIVAL IS KEY FOR ALL OF US
LOL
BLUE

[concerned square]

This whole thread is crazy, I did not want this brought up in Bill forum BECAUSE of this nonsense! I am pissed off with the lot of you now, I even had ROSS stop this very topic that was a thread created by Heretic, nothing against heretic of course he was doing what he thought was right.

But it serves so show how much I don't want certain things discussed, Heather herself from GERMANY so I am told DOES not want this DISCUSSED, so please for the love of god... shut up!!!

[Mod EDIT] To Reduce quote size


I am sorry I don't want to offend anybody but I am really really angry, I feel great guilt over Kerry and Bill, and I understand there was so much that happened beyond this, but so many people have told me directly this is MY fault you tend to believe it.

Ben you are not making sense, you say, "you think we would tell Bill anything? NO!" "you think we would tell you anything? NO!" then you say " none of you asked me about Heather, so come and ask me" well we're asking you now.
You say none of us know the facts or what went on, then tell us!
Maybe this started out as a joke and kind of snow balled? if this is the case i think all PA members would be more understanding than angry.
The ramifications of this could be colossal for avalon and potential whistleblowers .
Ben, sit down and have a long think about it. Everyone is just concerned about the bigger picture.

[lightblue]

i don't think he remembers any more - is what happens.. :unsure:

[SteveX]

Snipped

This whole thread is crazy, I did not want this brought up in Bill forum BECAUSE of this nonsense!
But it serves so show how much I don't want certain things discussed, Heather herself from GERMANY so I am told DOES not want this DISCUSSED, so please for the love of god... shut up!!!
I’ve already stated what’s happening. From this post
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?935-The-Heather-Material&p=10650&viewfull=1#post10650 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?935-The-Heather-Material&p=10650&viewfull=1#post10650)


Ben, unfortunately, irrespective of his intentions is between the Devil and the deep blue sea. Kerry has now set Ben up like a ten pin skittle. Which as you will appreciate is counter to her argument of protecting her source. Bill, in order to clear the charge is now forced to knock Ben over.
It seems to me your arguing at the wrong door. Bill hasn’t resurrected this issue. You could have withdrawn your consent from Kerry with regard to releasing the audio.


either close this thread or Ban me, because as long as I am here this is going to come up over and over again and how can I trust you lot to treat me with any kind of respect after the damage that is being done?
Ben, you’ll have to open your eyes and realize this is little to do with you now. The fact of the matter is, that you are nothing other than a political football. Kerry would have done you a better service by leaving the sleeping dog and not forced an issue of integrity with her blog.

[Agape]

I'm so sorry for all the parties involved ... the split that should have never happened ..in my eyes ,
but who am I to poke nose to other peoples private affairs. And that it's pasted over few boards ..

People create legends ..life creates them..people just play their own part..

the more brave resist the destiny, resist the temptation to run away from their mission..

I find difficult talking through the tension here ...

:behindsofa:

[blue777]

I’ve already stated what’s happening. From this post
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?935-The-Heather-Material&p=10650&viewfull=1#post10650 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?935-The-Heather-Material&p=10650&viewfull=1#post10650)


It seems to me your arguing at the wrong door. Bill hasn’t resurrected this issue. You could have withdrawn your consent from Kerry with regard to releasing the audio.


Ben, you’ll have to open your eyes and realize this is little to do with you now. The fact of the matter is, that you are nothing other than a political football. Kerry would have done you a better service by leaving the sleeping dog and not forced an issue of integrity with her blog.

i AGREE, This is not the only forum which this subject is being discussed , I know of a few more with hundreds of people on the forums....and it is spreading outwards.....if it is the truth people will go all out to find it

best thing if we can get to the truth
lol

[Celine]

There are three sides to all truths..

Yours...

Mine...

And the truth.

We are stubborn mammals us humans...

[blue777]

There are three sides to all truths..

Yours...

Mine...

And the truth.

We are stubborn mammals us humans...

Therefore it applies to Tom as well.....and Kerry and anyone else.....therefore whom do we trust to give us the truth , and why have these forums in the first place ,if we only get is, second hand truths falsehoods......
there is only one truth and that is positive and linked to compassion
lol
blue

[Lee-B]

There are three sides to all truths..

Yours...

Mine...

And the truth.

We are stubborn mammals us humans...

That quote keeps croping up, the wise words of genderbender "Marilyn"
His co-hort Boy George has a good one as well.

Opinions are like A-holes, we've all got one.

[Ross]

Hi all, This is my first post here. As a newcomer to this forum and having read all the previous posts in this thread, I am now wondering whether I made the right choice by being here. The last thing that I expected to find was Bill and Kerry arguing in public, although I think I understand the reasons of them both. However, with regard to a vote, surely by being here at all we have already made clear our preference for the way Bill presents information. Someone needs to say this - sort it out, this forum resembles a kindergarten at present. Let us concentrate on helping other people to understand our mission instead of bickering amongst ourselves.

Regards and love

Hi winnasboy,

Wecome to the forum and I understand your view, however, I do not agree that this forum resembles a kindergarten, some threads here do fall into that catergory but they are a minority.
Part of our human condition is to put forth our views based on our perception and that is ok. We are human, living in a world of variable energies, conflicts and seperation, this has been the game for eons, to keep us seperated and fragmented, re-active and dumbed down. This, imho, requires a lot of letting go, we are not at fault for the most part due to our 'education' of the system we were born into. As we become more aware, we must learn to understand to take responsibility for our words and actions and not to take what others say as 'personal' a hard task but an important truth worthy of practice.

Peace always (beyond the re-active)

Ross

[Southsea]

Hi Ross, you have an excellent grasp of of the situation, it lifts my spirit.

All the Best

[buddha boy]

Bill is of the light,so leave him alone or come see something like me MR. LightWarriorhttp://farm1.static.flickr.com/136/358900046_c73c7027d3.jpg

[Vidya Moksha]

Bill is of the light,so leave him alone or come see something like me MR. LightWarriorhttp://farm1.static.flickr.com/136/358900046_c73c7027d3.jpg

wow, is this what Bill will look like if he has to eat his hat?
:laugh:

[buddha boy]

Haha I SAID ME!

[blue777]

Hi winnasboy,

Wecome to the forum and I understand your view, however, I do not agree that this forum resembles a kindergarten, some threads here do fall into that catergory but they are a minority.
Part of our human condition is to put forth our views based on our perception and that is ok. We are human, living in a world of variable energies, conflicts and seperation, this has been the game for eons, to keep us seperated and fragmented, re-active and dumbed down. This, imho, requires a lot of letting go, we are not at fault for the most part due to our 'education' of the system we were born into. As we become more aware, we must learn to understand to take responsibility for our words and actions and not to take what others say as 'personal' a hard task but an important truth worthy of practice.

Peace always (beyond the re-active)

Ross

Hello Ross,
Eloquently put, we are all different , and are at diffeent levels of spiritual maturation......therefore we are all here to learn
lol
blue

[Timmoth]

I have pointed out SOME of the MANY serious anomalies in John Burns' association with Camelot:
-- I was trying to protect Camelot. (There's a very great deal to this, by the way.)

I have made strong values-driven statements that I would not endorse advertising on the Camelot site (something John Burns was pushing REALLY hard when he wanted to "turn Camelot into a million-dollar operation")
-- I was trying to protect Camelot.

I have sat patiently (and quietly) when Kerry had for the last several weeks locked me out of the Camelot server and out of the Camelot YouTube account, in both cases by changing the passwords. That was never posted on my blog.

I did not explain publicly that the Anglo-Saxon Mission video was deleted from the Camelot account by KERRY: not by YouTube. (This happened twice.)

I did not make any public fuss when Kerry deleted the entire introduction to the Dane Tops interview after we had agreed that the Camelot Library would remain untouched and intact.
This is very surprising to hear. Is Kerry being manipulated? by Jon Burns? I've only been following the Project Camelot Portal and haven't come across this guy.
In fact by the portal, Bill comes out looking kind of bad. Which is why I had to come here and see his side.
Sure enough Bill explains himself very well, and I'm surprised at Kerry's actions.
So who is John Burns, and where do I find the statements by Bill relating to him?

I suppose I would just like to know more about the people operating with Bill and Kerry. I don't want to take sides, since I like the approach of both, but if I'm going to grasp whatever information is being presented to me, by them, I need to know who is influencing who, and what may be motivating them.

Please Bill, Tommy, whoever, do share the full story, as you've promised, and we can all have the info we need to make up our own minds.

Thanks,
T.Rex

[irishspirit]

FROM MY BLOG POST OF TODAY, APRIL 16, 2010

On Protecting Sources and Confidentiality

This statement has been written response to the recent actions of Bill Ryan and speaking to the core reason for the split within Camelot and why the building of the portal became necessary.

I have been silent until now and have not spoken out publicly at any length due to my desire to preserve the good standing and credibility of Project Camelot. However, I can no longer remain silent due to the statement made by Bill Ryan on his site regarding what he considers to be a "takedown" of Camelot. The only takedown has been the complete and total responsibility of myself and Bill Ryan. We no longer agree on core values or perceptions and have not for over 1 and 1/2 years... therefore we have archived the Camelot site into what is now known as the Camelot Library.

I am concerned that the good name and integrity of Project Camelot has been dealt a serious blow by the actions of Bill Ryan. As many of you know, the split within Camelot has become the object of much internet gossip...

If one keeps in mind that our credibility and integrity are the main and integral parts of what our name stands for in the world that we inhabit as, in essence, investigative journalists into the nature of reality and revealing the truth beneath the Matrix... then our reputation is all we have to allow us to continue to pursue our mission and maintain our standing in the internet community.

Note: This standing was recently brought into question when Bill Ryan came forward to debunk and out two whistleblowers. He did this, in spite of the fact that both these whistleblowers came to Camelot in trust and in secrecy, placing themselves at the mercy of Camelot with the complete belief that Project Camelot was an organization of integrity and would fully honor any secrecy in their dealings with those individuals as clearly stated in the mission statement on our website.

Unfortunately, Bill Ryan recently decided that the statement of confidentiality and secrecy was to be amended to say in essence "if I, Bill Ryan, decide subsequently, that the story told to us in confidence is false or misleading I will then take it upon myself to out the witness and thereby reveal our "source" to the world, putting their lives and the lives of their loved ones in danger, as well as violating the clear implied and expressed agreement that we have established in writing previously with them and to the world...."

Along these lines, I submit the following image from the Wikileaks.org website of their now famous release of the videotape of collateral murder by U.S. forces in Iraq during which two journalists were also killed. This statement -- from that video states the CORE principle by which they operate. This is a nod to them and their integrity. I am sad to say this cannot any longer be the claim of Project Camelot...

To be clear, they state "Wikileaks exists to help you safely reveal important material to the world. We have an unbroken record in protecting confidential sources."

IMAGE

At question is our reputation which will precede us wherever we go in the future with regard to Project Camelot and therefore we have been left with the decision as to how we intend to operate going forward. The Portal was built to allow for this difference in our styles and approaches to whistleblowers and confidential testimony. I can state here, unequivocally, that I do honor confidentiality and will continue to pledge to protect my sources against all odds regardless of whether they be external or internal to Camelot.

At the same time, I want to state here that the recent statements of Bill Ryan with regard to Illuminati takeover of Camelot are not only completely unfounded but a subterfuge to cover gross errors in judgment that led him to cast 2 whistleblowers to the dogs... in severe disregard of his pledge to uphold the mission of Camelot and in violation of all that Project Camelot claims to stand for.

After repeated requests to Bill Ryan that he reconsider his position and views, I was left with no recourse but to publish this statement.

While he will needless to say, go to great lengths to show the world that one was an unbalanced hoaxer and the other is, he believes, acting as an agent of the Illuminati in a dark plot to take down Camelot, neither is true. Camelot is operating as before with the exception that we have reached the point where working together has become impossible due to our differences in views and interpretations of what it means to have integrity.

Sincerely,

Kerry Lynn Cassidy
Co-Founder, Project Camelot

Kerry having looked at your post again I have to say that it is a joke for you to use the Wikileaks mission statement when talking about the "Heather Material". The difference between Wikileaks and you is the fact that Wikileaks get solid evidence. You will note that their sources present the Videao evidence, they do not say that the evidence is there but it was given to someone else by their source, and it cannot be located. Oh and this AMAZING story being told by our source was not copied twenty times for support and back up.

I do not care what is going on between you and bill, that is your personal issues, however, you seem to forget that this Project was bought and paid for by the public who have given lot of their time, energy and MONEY so that this project was possible. When people want to discuss it, they have a right to and should have the right to all the facts.

Ben, pull your kneck in son. Your mouth full of anger bs does not go done well with people on here, or any where else. You brought this to the Public forum mate, deal with the responce. You say you thought of all places you would have got support was here. Why? You think that people here swallow everything huk line and sinker? People here can make their own minds up with the evidence presented to them. They will draw their own views from it and respond how they feel fit.

I would suggest that this thread should be closed as it is clearly having a bad effect of the forum and the people within it. I thought that this thread goes against the forum and what it stands for. I personally feel that this should be given no more time or attention!


Be Safe

[winnasboy]

Hi Ross,

Many thanks for your kind words of welcome.

I think that I understand the importance of this and hope that I can learn from all of you.

Just seems a real shame that this appears to have caused a split in a very good team.

Regards and Love.

[bashi]

This whole thread is crazy, I did not want this brought up in Bill forum BECAUSE of this nonsense! I am pissed off with the lot of you now, I even had ROSS stop this very topic that was a thread created by Heretic, nothing against heretic of course he was doing what he thought was right.

But it serves so show how much I don't want certain things discussed, Heather herself from GERMANY so I am told DOES not want this DISCUSSED, so please for the love of god... shut up!!!

[MOD EDIT To reduce quote size]

I am sorry I don't want to offend anybody but I am really really angry, I feel great guilt over Kerry and Bill, and I understand there was so much that happened beyond this, but so many people have told me directly this is MY fault you tend to believe it.


kin, i have given you the benefit of doubt. But looking at this and reflecting about it, i think i made a mistake by doing so. For me you have just squandered that little credit of credibility.
It looks like you are just playing games to entice negative emotions, with an agenda behind.
If i am wrong, then you should reflect about your own style of communication - and change it.

.

[irishspirit]

winnasboy, I would have to agree. But really Friend, I am not long part of this forum and there are very very very good people here. You will learn a lot as I have in my short time here.

[perfectresonance]

i support bill 100%. i support kerry 100%

BUTT OUT EVERYBODY ELSE

I agree with you 33%

[perfectresonance]

I am sorry I don't want to offend anybody but I am really really angry, I feel great guilt over Kerry and Bill, and I understand there was so much that happened beyond this, but so many people have told me directly this is MY fault you tend to believe it.

Ben, you have to own the consequences of your actions. We all do.

What started off as a bit of cloak and dagger fun has caused a lot of suffering.

As you suggested yourself, I agree it is better for you to go now.

[morguana]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rHFS9UyZYM

In the attitude of silence the soul finds the path in a clearer light, and what is elusive and deceptive resolves itself into crystal clearness. Our life is a long and arduous quest after Truth.
You must be the change you want to see in the world.
Mahatma Gandhi

and in the words of buddha.......see what is, see was is not, follow the true way
a mind beyond judgments, watches and understands

so live in joy, in peace, even among the troubled
love m

[Debby]

I am so sorry reading alot of posts made here. Why is it so important for people to get there right? There are different ways to approch people, different ways in the way we can think, differnent ways to see with our mind, heart and eyes.
It is in my view very easy to attack and judge. It takes more knowledge and wisdom to be openminded without being judgemental and attacking. We can all have differnet views, I don't see a problem with that. I believe it's the best thing we can have finding the truth for ourselfs. I myself like to hear and understand the views of others, I choose to.By this I have grown and learned and I know that there is so much more than I can imagine and I am corious and hungry for finding out. Isn't that why we are here? Nobody has all the answers we are all on a journey looking for the truth. Find the truth with love and respect! This is not a contest who is right and who is wrong and who crossed the finish line first! We are in this together. We all have doubts about things we read, it is a lesson how we deal with that and approch it.

Much love
debbyxxx

[blue777]

I am so sorry reading alot of posts made here. Why is it so important for people to get there right? There are different ways to approch people, different ways in the way we can think, differnent ways to see with our mind, heart and eyes.
It is in my view very easy to attack and judge. It takes more knowledge and wisdom to be openminded without being judgemental and attacking. We can all have differnet views, I don't see a problem with that. I believe it's the best thing we can have finding the truth for ourselfs. I myself like to hear and understand the views of others, I choose to.By this I have grown and learned and I know that there is so much more than I can imagine and I am corious and hungry for finding out. Isn't that why we are here? Nobody has all the answers we are all on a journey looking for the truth. Find the truth with love and respect! This is not a contest who is right and who is wrong and who crossed the finish line first! We are in this together. We all have doubts about things we read, it is a lesson how we deal with that and approch it.

Much love
debbyxxx

thanks Debby
QUOTE:
Looking for the truth. Find the truth with love and respect , is all well and good, but we have to discern falsehoods also, and things are not always what they seem to be.
lol
blue

[Debby]

thanks Debby
QUOTE:
Looking for the truth. Find the truth with love and respect , is all well and good, but we have to discern falsehoods also, and things are not always what they seem to be.
lol
blue

Hi Blue777,
i didn't mean that we should believe everything. No you have to question everything and reseach your self. I am trying to make my point in how to do that. Sorry if i wasn't clear about that.
Love debbyxxx

[blue777]

Hi Blue777,
i didn't mean that we should believe everything. No you have to question everything and reseach your self. I am trying to make my point in how to do that. Sorry if i wasn't clear about that.
Love debbyxxx

It's O.K Debby , we are all learning
lol
blue

[K626]

Kerry having looked at your post again I have to say that it is a joke for you to use the Wikileaks mission statement when talking about the "Heather Material". The difference between Wikileaks and you is the fact that Wikileaks get solid evidence. You will note that their sources present the Videao evidence, they do not say that the evidence is there but it was given to someone else by their source, and it cannot be located. Oh and this AMAZING story being told by our source was not copied twenty times for support and back up.

I do not care what is going on between you and bill, that is your personal issues, however, you seem to forget that this Project was bought and paid for by the public who have given lot of their time, energy and MONEY so that this project was possible. When people want to discuss it, they have a right to and should have the right to all the facts.

Ben, pull your kneck in son. Your mouth full of anger bs does not go done well with people on here, or any where else. You brought this to the Public forum mate, deal with the responce. You say you thought of all places you would have got support was here. Why? You think that people here swallow everything huk line and sinker? People here can make their own minds up with the evidence presented to them. They will draw their own views from it and respond how they feel fit.

I would suggest that this thread should be closed as it is clearly having a bad effect of the forum and the people within it. I thought that this thread goes against the forum and what it stands for. I personally feel that this should be given no more time or attention!


Be Safe

Good post. Generally broadly agree with the sentiments expressed.

Don't make me come back to this one more time or **** is gonna happen. :p Peace.

Kdisco

[Ventana]

I'm breaking my promise not to post on this subject (The Heather Material) again but I just had to respond to the comment about WIKILEAKS and Kerry by saying I could not agree more. Like comparing apples to oranges. I laughed out loud when I read that statement by Kerry. I don't mean this as a "Let's bash Kerry" comment but there needs to be intellectual honesty if one is going to maintain a website like PC. Jeez.

[daci]

Hi All!

I am reading these posts here day after day...It is funny how many of you responded...Yes we are All here to learn, grow...debating about truths...truths are created... they are not static. Truths are also not conditions, that exist... and that is our obligation to identify and catalog....No, we are the creator of our truths and what we are living is our truth...Nothing is Absolute...

Namasté,
Majda

[lightblue]

i hope bill comes on really soon...l

[SteveX]

It's 19 min after midnight where he lives. I expect he'll be in bed. Maybe see him in the morning.

[Ailée]

In the attitude of silence the soul finds the path in a clearer light, and what is elusive and deceptive resolves itself into crystal clearness. Our life is a long and arduous quest after Truth.
You must be the change you want to see in the world.
Mahatma Gandhi

and in the words of buddha.......see what is, see was is not, follow the true way
a mind beyond judgments, watches and understands

so live in joy, in peace, even among the troubled
love m

Appreciated the gentle breeze...

Thank you morguana

:emptybath:

[PINEAL-PILOT-IN MERKABAH]

wow 20 pages on some total pish(heather material) i agree with some early AV1 members like clark kent. the whistle blowing thing died early 09. the direction bill is taking at the moment is the only sensible course. whistleblowing has been somewhat infiltrated and is getting wilder and wilder with the hearsay. im leaning more and more to the hoagland /farrel verifiable info track. some people are new to this stuff and perhaps need to go through the grinder so to speak before they can discern info better.

[Ventana]

wow 20 pages on some total pish(heather material) i agree with some early AV1 members like clark kent. the whistle blowing thing died early 09. the direction bill is taking at the moment is the only sensible course. whistleblowing has been somewhat infiltrated and is getting wilder and wilder with the hearsay. im leaning more and more to the hoagland /farrel verifiable info track. some people are new to this stuff and perhaps need to go through the grinder so to speak before they can discern info better.


Agreed.



.

[perfectresonance]

I've seen this done on other message boards, and sometimes shutting down a thread is a good way to take the heat out of things. This seems a time where this is a good approach.

[blue777]

I've seen this done on other message boards, and sometimes shutting down a thread is a good way to take the heat out of things. This seems a time where this is a good approach.

If you shut down the thread , you shut down democracy and the spirit of getting to the truth...therefore what is the truth and where is Mankind heading?
lol
blue

[lunaflare]

this thread is helping me drift into sleep after nights of restless insomnia.........

[blue777]

this thread is helping me drift into sleep after nights of restless insomnia.........

Have you ever tried truth pills , they seem to work
lol
blue

[SteveX]

Oh dear. Kerry has release part 2 in a new blog. From this link. http://projectcamelotproductions.com/blog-hp.html

"Now, judging from a few emails and some of the nonsense going on in the forums, many of you don't seem to get that if we as the Founders decide later that a whistleblower or source is telling us lies, we do have recourse. We can step forward. We can state our new opinions on the matter in public. We can agree to disagree. We can even challenge them and their story. In public. For example, we could say we disagree with what they have told us and suggest that they come forward and further substantiate their position. This too, would be permissible."


Where as most of us consider Bill to of outted nothing but a couple of hoaxers that got in to deep. Kerry seems to be pushing the integrity deal, as if it were 2 genuine whistleblowers.

A more cynical observer may see the above as a statement of blogs to come. Hey, this is a conspiracy site….right?



:ranger:

[Majorion]

Where as most of us consider Bill to of outted nothing but a couple of hoaxers that got in to deep. Kerry seems to be pushing the integrity deal, as if it were 2 genuine whistleblowers.
That's the thing isn't it... she claims to be protecting whistleblowers, when they aren't really whisteblowers at all.

[tone3jaguar]

Evangelical Glory Hunting

[Alex]

I became aware of the Project Camelot website well over a year ago and since then have been hooked. It's sad to see the split as now alot of the energy I saw before, with the connection that both Bill and Kerry had together, has been lost.

Let's face it the power behind Camelot was the great video interviews, particulary: Jim Humble, Richard Hoagland, John Lear, Jordan Maxwell, David Wilcock, George Green, Peter Levenda, Pete Peterson, and the outstanding Dr Steve Greer interview (+ a few others), not always Bill & Kerry appearing together but knowing that the partnership was always there in the background at least. Also the conferences they jointly appeared on together were avid viewing.

A good analogy is the x-files partnership of 'Mulder & Scully', could one survive without the other? Sure . . . but together they are dynamite.

I havent paid much attention to the 'heather material' - in fact out of all the information supplied by Camelot I find it the least interesting and useful. I havent watched many of the new videos with as much enthusiasm either, but hopefully that will change.

I find it a shame (in my opinion) that Kerry hasn't stood by her 'partner' (as i'm sure if this was the other way around things would have been different) - even though I understand her viewpoint to a degree. Both, Bill & Kerry are right in their own way. Also I note that David Wilcock has a small 'dig' at Bill on his latest post: "Is ESA Planning to Announce Phobos is an ET Base?"

http://divinecosmos.com/index.php/start-here/davids-blog/824-phobos-esa

quote: "Kerry, Bill and I were told we could be killed if we announced anything as specific as a date. I also knew any announcement of such things would probably eliminate the possibility of the event actually happening. . .I mentioned this to Bill Ryan during his talk at our conference in Zurich while I was in the audience. . .Bill let the exact date slip in his talk. Once it was done, it was done. A variety of cameras captured it in the audience, and posted it online. . . .Behind the scenes I struggled to keep a lid on it going around the Net -- but to my disdain, it became very popular nonetheless."

Personally, I like Bill's open style.

It's strange that the 'powers that be' have in some way actually managed to 'kill' Camelot to a degree - I guess they found out a way for them to do it to themselves.

I guess no-one likes change, I hope the split paths rejoin again somewhere in the future.

[qbeac]

Hi everyone, the following is the complete text from Kerry’s blog latest update (April-18-10), and below it I’d like to give my opinion about it because I do agree “around” 100% with what Kerry says because, in my opinion, what she says makes a lot of sense.

Well, let me put it this way, I agree with what she says in general terms, but since this is a delicate, difficult and somewhat complex issue (Ex: vetting of witnesses, discerning info from disinfo, etc.), I also think there are certain very important things that should be further clarified about this matter.

Let me put it this other way:

It is my strong opinion that Project Camelot (Bill and Kerry) should have a very well thought PROTOCOL (in case they don’t already have it…???) for these risky situations (Ex: vetting of witnesses, discerning info from disinfo, avoiding disinfo and infiltrated agents, etc.), and such a protocol should be agreed upon both Bill and Kerry, and should contemplate all different possible and reasonable scenarios or contingencies that they believe may occur, including the changing or updating of the protocol if the need arises (Ex: new or different witnesses cases, new circumstances, etc.).

That being said, this is Kerry’s update:

Kerry Cassidy’s blog. Update, April-18-2010:
http://projectcamelotproductions.com/blog-hp.html


April 18 Update

Apparently, since I wrote my statement about the Camelot split, a lot of people don't seem to understand what is going on here... This is not some superficial parting of the ways or some boy/girl argument that we need to just 'get over'.

The issues at root here go to the very core of our Camelot mission. And this mission is worldwide in scope. It is crucial that as we go forward, everyone understand what is at stake here.

If we, as Camelot are not a safe place for whistleblowers and researchers and experiencers, to tell their story then we cannot operate under this mission. Period.

Now, judging from a few emails and some of the nonsense going on in the forums, many of you don't seem to get that if we as the Founders decide later that a whistleblower or source is telling us lies, we do have recourse. We can step forward. We can state our new opinions on the matter in public. We can agree to disagree. We can even challenge them and their story. In public. For example, we could say we disagree with what they have told us and suggest that they come forward and further substantiate their position. This too, would be permissible.

But what we cannot do under any circumstances is reveal our sources names and ranks and other private information about them or info provided to us, without their express permission. Without that we have no integrity. We cannot and should not reveal their true names (regardless of what other people say or do) and I also submit, we should not after the fact, berate, bad-mouth or otherwise insult them in public. Once we accept their story in confidence and this is key, then we also agree to maintain that confidence against all odds and attacks.

That's it. Without that, there is no Camelot.

***

.."From the moment I fell down that rabbit hole I've been told what I must do and who I must be. I've been shrunk, stretched, scratched and stuffed into a teapot. I've been accused of being Alice and not being Alice but this is my dream. I'll decide where it goes from here... I make the path."
--Alice, Adventures in Wonderland

----------------------------

In one of my previous posts in this forum, I suggested:

Perhaps a good operational PROTOCOL would help to handle these risky situations of trying to discern info from disinfo.

And I mentioned several important elements I believe such a protocol should include, which are, but are not limited to, the following:


1) Protecting witnesses confidentiality. I really believe this is of utmost importance, as Kerry states in her update:

(Note: in the first paragraph only I underline some words because I think they are key words. The rest of the underlined words in other paragraphs are Kerry’s)


If we, as Camelot are not a safe place for whistleblowers and researchers and experiencers, to tell their story then we cannot operate under this mission. Period.

(…)

But what we cannot do under any circumstances is reveal our sources names and ranks and other private information about them or info provided to us, without their express permission. Without that we have no integrity…

2) Requirements for the vetting of witnesses. There should be some type of “list” of important requirements, such as meeting that person in real life, etc., etc. It should be a “flexible list” but as complete as possible.

3) Presumption of innocence. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presumption_of_innocence) That is, considering somebody “innocent unless proven guilty”. That’s a basic legal and moral right (imo), and it includes what Kerry says in her update:


We cannot and should not reveal their true names (regardless of what other people say or do) and I also submit, we should not after the fact, berate, bad-mouth or otherwise insult them in public. Once we accept their story in confidence and this is key, then we also agree to maintain that confidence against all odds and attacks.

4) Protecting the witness right to honour (same as in point 3)

5) Putting controversial info “on hold” until we find further data that allows us to be able to judge it better. This means that we should not try to rush to conclusions too early and without having all the necessary data to be able to discern it. We can and should prudently wait till we are in a safe position to asses if a particular case is info or disinfo. Otherwise, point 3 could be harmed: Considering somebody “innocent until proven guilty”.

That means that some information may have to be placed “indefinitely on hold”, but that’s ok, because we only can do what we can do.

6) Minimum requirements for the publishing of information. For instance, if a particular info is highly controversial or very hard to know if it is info or disinfo, should it be published or not (even with a disclaimer)? What is best to do in the meantime, that is, while you are trying to find out if it is info or disinfo, to publish it or not to publish it?

7) Since you are two persons, an “even number” (50%-50%), what to do in case of disagreement about publishing or not controversial info? One possible solution would be to select a small group of people that you both really trust, like a consultant committee, which will add an “odd number” to unlock the situation.

8) Project Camelot right to recourse, as Kerry explains in her update above, for instance, and using her own words:


… if we as the Founders decide later that a whistleblower or source is telling us lies, we do have recourse. We can step forward. We can state our new opinions on the matter in public. We can agree to disagree. We can even challenge them and their story. In public. For example, we could say we disagree with what they have told us and suggest that they come forward and further substantiate their position. This too, would be permissible.

9) Etc.

-------------------------

In my opinion, some of the points above may have had something to do with the controversy provoked in this case (Heather material).

The previous points are just a suggestion. Those points of the protocol could be changed or new ones added. I don’t know if PC already has such a protocol, either in writing or verbally agreed upon. I believe reflecting on these points could help Project Camelot and all of us, because what we all want, our important goal (and we should focus primarily on it), is for PC to keep doing the great job it’s been doing all this time so that we (together) can collaborate to awaken as many sleeping people as possible: the critical mass.

Please, Kerry and Bill, think about it, it’s for the benefit of human kind if all of us (together) try to overcome this bump on the road, and we can only overcome it “together”.

You two, Bill and Kerry, have a LOT of people who appreciate you and support you (me included), and, as I mentioned previously, who appreciate all you have done and are doing to awaken the critical mass to avoid potential terrible future timelines, alleviate the suffering of human kind, and contribute to bring a better future for humanity: peace, justice, love.

Please, if anybody has any suggestions, feel free to let us know. Thanks.

[SteveX]

Snipped

I find it a shame (in my opinion) that Kerry hasn't stood by her 'partner' (as i'm sure if this was the other way around things would have been different) - even though I understand her viewpoint to a degree. Both, Bill & Kerry are right in their own way. Also I note that David Wilcock has a small 'dig' at Bill on his latest post: "Is ESA Planning to Announce Phobos is an ET Base?"

http://divinecosmos.com/index.php/start-here/davids-blog/824-phobos-esa

quote: "Kerry, Bill and I were told we could be killed if we announced anything as specific as a date. I also knew any announcement of such things would probably eliminate the possibility of the event actually happening. . .I mentioned this to Bill Ryan during his talk at our conference in Zurich while I was in the audience. . .Bill let the exact date slip in his talk. Once it was done, it was done. A variety of cameras captured it in the audience, and posted it online. . . .Behind the scenes I struggled to keep a lid on it going around the Net -- but to my disdain, it became very popular nonetheless."

Have I been deceived? I thought it was reported that DW was going around declaring "Disclosure November 24th".

[PINEAL-PILOT-IN MERKABAH]

i find that there isnt much left to blow whistles about , all the relevant info and irrelevant info is out there for your discerning pleasure. oh and while we are at it the subject of disclosure is an intersting one. officially its not gonna happen from govt sources(would you really want it to come from such a corrupt source)? what is to be disclosed?
the fact that it us as human beings that have developed anti grav/free nrg and that a certain section of us are from mars?(weidner,hoagland,pharrel) or that we are being visited by ET and its their tech. imo there isnt anything to disclose, we just need the control to fall away and the rest will take care of itself.

[Enlightenment101]

Well Ive heard David Wilcox talk about Disclosure and Nov 24 Not Bill .

[Alex]

Well Ive heard David Wilcox talk about Disclosure and Nov 24 Not Bill .

Really? Well that's not true actually, and it was the 27th Nov not the 24th:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKxUDbdZaH0

18min 35 seconds

[SteveX]

Really? Well that's not true actually, and it was the 27th Nov not the 24th:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKxUDbdZaH0

18min 35 seconds

The 24th was my memories fault. I wrote the date above. A couple of things intrigue me here. The secret.tv video above is actually hosted on jagbodhi….. the Camelot Youtube account. Did I miss this video being posted by Camelot? I see on the new library site it says:

Project Camelot has very kindly been given permission by our friend Christian Köhlert from Secret TV to make the following videos freely available.

I recalled the disclosure date being first mentioned on the Dr Pete Peterson videos (Sorry, ain’t trawling through the 3 parts to quote the moment). That was recorded in June but not released until September. The link above was recorded in July and then released in August.

The thing your saying is DW didn’t release any dates prior to the above and the vid proves who and when.

[Rimbaud]

Hello everyone,

This is my first post here (although I have been watching the Camelot site pretty much since the begining). I really just wanted to say hi and to lend my support to Bill Ryan over this "Heather" material. I'm very sorry that it has impacted on Camelot the way that it has, but I have always enjoyed Bills grounded approach to matters and interview style. I'm looking forward to contributing more in future and thanks for having me on board.

Greetings from the Haute Pyrenees!

Rimbaud.

[wrightio]

Hi all,
I have been reading this thread with some interest in the last couple of hours.. when i should have been sleeping! 3.30am here lol! Anyway, a couple of observations if i may. I thought Bill's posts had been less than confrontational, pretty much harmless really. Then things started to heat up after Kerry flew in posted and departed.. I didn't quite understand what that was about, it seemed more a declaration of righteousness more than anything else. It didn't seem to suit the prevailing mood of the thread prior. Tommy coming into it with aggression didn't seem to fit the mood either.
I have been following PC from afar for about 12 months or so now.. i have always seen Bill as a measured, gracious and a person quick to apply praise, including to Kerry, and many times. The only time i have ever noticed Bill lose his cool was with this Heather material. My first thought was that the whistleblower must have really done something out of order to elicit such a reaction from Bill. I have enjoyed Bill's interviewing style from the getgo, his guests are treated with grace and respect.. I feel Tommy you are the one that should put up or shut up as you have none of the credits Bill has earnt over the journey.
I think Ben should have probably quit while he was ahead, he is likely embarrassed and other things i don't pretend to know about.. the fact remains however, PC from an outsiders view has always tried to verify thoroughly its stories before putting them to air. Ben came to PC with the story fully knowing that all the participants are truth seekers and proof is required. Whatever has happened with Heather since then, I would have thought the easiest way for Ben to clear his name was to show Bill privately the evidence.. i feel positive that Bill would have humbly retracted his words if he was proved wrong and Ben could have decided to proceed with the revealing of the story or retreat back to normal knowing his reputation is restored. Instead, still looking from afar.. it's been a case of ducking and weaving and avoiding what we are here for.. the truth.
I agree with other posters though, this thread is no longer about Ben, its a little about pride, a little about ego.. but all about face.
cheers,
Glenn

[graigav]

I've been around Camelot for a while. I often come here to fill in the info I can't seem to get anywhere else. Things have changed.

My fellow travelers, we do not have time for this.

What we have here is not about Bill or Kerry. It is not about being right or wrong. It is about learning who we are in this disintegration of what has been and the bringing in what is to come. If we don’t a lot of people are going to perish. What will we have then?

For me, Camelot was always a place of possibilities. You would listen to others explain what has been going on behind the scenes, that the so-called “powers” have been keeping from us for a long time.

You have to admit we knew it. We just needed someone to come forward and give it credence. They have, under the auspices of Project Camelot and in many cases have been of great value to us.

The only reason they are the “powers” is because we have lost who we are and have ceded those powers to them.

Now is the time to look at ourselves again. It is time to reclaim those powers and create the world the way we want it. It is not about how we are separate; we are not.

We are all connected.

The “old world” is falling apart. The new will come. Will we be part of it or will we break apart and allow that energy to go else ware?

Life is that continuous building up, enhancing, sustaining life as we find it, growing and expressing.

Death is breaking apart, dissolving, and shifting energy elsewhere.

I’m going to chose life. I’m going to build on that. I’m going to go where that is happening. If it is not here, I’ll go somewhere else.

If we are not going to do that here, someone else will just pick up the slack because it has to be done.

It will be done.

Will we be part of it?

[Enlightenment101]

Really? Well that's not true actually, and it was the 27th Nov not the 24th:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKxUDbdZaH0

18min 35 seconds
10-29-09
Another source is David Wilcock, a prominent researcher of emerging scientific paradigms. Wilcock has been told by additional independent sources that extraterrestrial disclosure will take place by the end of 2009. He furthermore claimed in a Coast to Coast AM radio interview that “a 2-hour international TV special has already been booked that will introduce an alien species, similar to humans, to the world.”
http://livingjourney.wordpress.com/2009/10/29/in-the-days-current-news-events-in-the-light-of-biblical-prophecy-official-disclosure-of-extraterrestrial-life-is-imminent/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5JTtnXy2Q4

[perfectresonance]

David Wilcock has been quite consistent over time stating it was Bill letting it slip at the Barcelona conference that made it public in the first place. I've consumed all of Wilcock's public material, and all of Camelot's public material for the last 18 months, directly and through conference streams and the like, and I can not recall any other explanation.

That doesn't mean I'm right, but it would surprise me if the date was floating out there before the Barcelona conference due to a public Wilcock statement as I'm not aware of it.

[Enlightenment101]

Well I Have heard him Talking about it, on Coast to Coast, and he does say by the end of 2009 , and this interview was done on Oct 9 2009

[Ross]

i find that there isnt much left to blow whistles about , all the relevant info and irrelevant info is out there for your discerning pleasure. oh and while we are at it the subject of disclosure is an intersting one. officially its not gonna happen from govt sources(would you really want it to come from such a corrupt source)? what is to be disclosed?
the fact that it us as human beings that have developed anti grav/free nrg and that a certain section of us are from mars?(weidner,hoagland,pharrel) or that we are being visited by ET and its their tech. imo there isnt anything to disclose, we just need the control to fall away and the rest will take care of itself.

You make a valid point....

Peace

[Ross]

graigav:
The only reason they are the “powers” is because we have lost who we are and have ceded those powers to them.

Now is the time to look at ourselves again. It is time to reclaim those powers and create the world the way we want it. It is not about how we are separate; we are not.

We are all connected.

I agree here, on the most part we have given our consent to the 'powers' albeit a manipulated, cohersed consent, sold to us as truth but riddled with deception, but we still give it to them...

Keeping us seperate is their ultimate stratergy, has been working well for them for eons...the sooner we do our own work from within and discover just how connected we really are, the better our daily 'in the now' lives we will have, together...its a long road... and the majority of the earths population are still deeply distracted from who they really are and whats really going on. We must work hard to dissolve the old paradigms within ourselves before we can expect a change, then, we are in a much better position to help others to open their eyes and create something better for all.
Sorry off topic a lil...

Peace

Ross

[perfectresonance]

Well I Have heard him Talking about it, on Coast to Coast, and he does say by the end of 2009 , and this interview was done on Oct 9 2009

If it is important I'll dig up the Coast episodes that DW appeared on for the last half of 2009, but otherwise I'll be happy to leave it :)

[Rimbaud]

My friend, you need to calm down a little bit..this thread is for senior members and moderators to comment on rather than newbies like you and me..I have loads to contribute..hopefully not in such a negative manner!..Being polite is always a bonus.

Regards

Rimbaud:p

[Rimbaud]

has this thread stopped then?

[Ross]

no, more like 'flogged like a dead horse' and ppls have moved on...which is a good thing.

Peace

[SteveX]

Yep, the Heather stuff is flogged to death but in the link below we find out why Kerry got PO’ed about it and keeps pushing it. She wants to make a Hollywood movie out of it and is calling for a screenplay writer.

http://www.youtube.com/user/islandonlinenews#p/u/0/Qkudg365dDw

How can you b***h on about disclosing a so-called whistleblower and then go onto or, at least try to, make a bleedin movie about it? FFS.

[Baelsfire]

I was irritated i wasted my bandwidth on this material, and with that statement i waste no more words.

[Richard]

So long and thanks for all the fish

:rolleyes:

-=Thread Closed=-