Charlotte Riots... NOT protests....WTF is going on with the brewing "Race war"?

[TargeT]

So, we are at a point in western culture where we have leveraged both "white guilt" and "black entitlement" to the point where nearly anything is used as a cause to "protest".


But these aren't the same "protests" we've seen from the 60's, or even the more recent "occupy" protests... no these are CALLED "protests" but in fact are riots.

and worse than that, racially motivated riots.

Before the last few months I would have never believed that a racewar was possible, but the level of delusion out there and the heavy media bias is making it look very likely that a race war is already happening.

It's blacks against whites & only one side is fighting & THE MEDIA TELLS US THE "PROTESTS" ARE "PEACEFUL".

MDzsE5heUuA

I'm a product of the system in this, I'm extremely uncomfortable talking about race relations.. I'm overly cautious around black people with what I say and do.

But why? I've never done anything against "blacks" or "whites" or any one based on race.. Why do I feel this way? Systemic spreading of white guilt via public institutions and media; leveraged inequality... One group gets social points for... everything (Society and media shows us that it's "cool" to be black, it's (at least) distasteful to be white, especially a white male).



Anyone catch the VMA's? (Video Music Awards) by what used to be the trend setting MTV?
It was 95% black 5% white.. is that America today? I thought it was something like 13.5% black and a lot of other minority races used to exist too right? I guess there's no Asian, Latin, or GOD FORBID white talented musicians out there?

Even the artists participating had comments on this:

The VMA shortlist, announced earlier this week, is dominated by Beyoncé’s Lemonade, an artist MIA condemned this year for not being vocal about issues beyond Black Lives Matter. “Is Beyoncé or Kendrick Lamar going to say Muslim Lives Matter? Or Syrian Lives Matter? Or this kid in Pakistan matters?” she told the Evening Standard in April.
Does this get more blatant? I've looked into most the "black victim" meme's and they are almost entirely bull****...

Am I wrong here? It seems so obvious to me.

Hos7HouJ4DQ


I think what I've done in the past is wrong.. I've cringed away from the topic and thought it didn't apply to me and I shouldn't dip into this uncomfortable pool

I've made posts here on this forum and had some blow back while trying to breach this topic.. I think it's important and it needs exposure so we can take the wind out of it.

[AutumnW]

It's a worthy and super important topic. People who self identify as victims, are often just that, to a large degree. They still have to take along hard look at how they might be adding to their own victimization, within their own culture, and deal with those problems. Descendants of slaves have every right to point a finger, but at who? White slave masters are long dead and their great great great grandchildren do NOT necessarily share any of the attitudes and beliefs of their forefathers.

If a "micro-agression" occurs, like a white person being very cautious (terrified) walking through black neighbourhoods, in Chicago occurs, it is because there just might be a reason for caution. Is that racist or a demographic reality?

[TargeT]

I've always heard that "racists" have "code language"...

I think it's the SJW (Social Justice Warriors) and other virtue signalers are the ones with code language.

like "Micro-agression".. IMO that's just being overly sensitive and allowing yourself an excuse to react ("micro - aggression" occurs, individual is "Triggered" and they can self-justify sometimes outrageous actions).

It's worrying that as many "vocal" people have "bought in" to this crap... because most of the apathetic masses couldn't care less.

meT-8a83Pfw

[Flash]

Oh Gosh, I truly truly cannot resist::p:ROFL:

Target, you were micro agressor of obese people.

No way out of it - white male, having a white penis and worst, a military.

I will prove that the food intake IS NOT proportional to weight gain.

And soon, you gone have Obese Riots (pun intended) all over society claiming to stop the discrimination (and mostly in Virgin Island lol)

-------------------

All this to say that there is a ton of reasons to feel like a victim, to think you are put apart from others, to feel bullied. And when this is spread into whole slices of societies, it created a reason for protests. And then for riots when whole slices of society are chanting for violence.

However, I must say that what I see throughout the world is the following:

Tons of male Muslims diluting the social make up in Europe, pitting themselves against the rest of the European societies and the society being politically correct, not saying what are those guys misdeeds publically - like rioting, stealing, raping, name it.

Blacks pitting themselves against white in America, and not noticing that in fact it is their own thugs that are destroying their surroundings and thier people, and the society being politically correct and not mentioning it.

I wonder what is planned for China and Russia, maybe Japanese against Chinese?

And the most astouding was, a few years ago, college students throughout the province protesting for free schooling, while it cost very little in the province, up to a point where the general public were asking what are the protest for. In fact, there were quite a lot of riots too, which were basically never mentioned either. This was a way to pitt a group of people, the young, against the adults. It did not work for very long. As Quebec is a trial ground for lots of social stuff (from the CIA), it was understood that you cannot pitt generations against each other any more, it does not woirk as it did with the baby boomers when they were young. So you have to put races at work instead.



I've always heard that "racists" have "code language"...

I think it's the SJW (Social Justice Warriors) and other virtue signalers are the ones with code language.

like "Micro-agression".. IMO that's just being overly sensitive and allowing yourself an excuse to react ("micro - aggression" occurs, individual is "Triggered" and they can self-justify sometimes outrageous actions).

It's worrying that as many "vocal" people have "bought in" to this crap... because most of the apathetic masses couldn't care less.

meT-8a83Pfw

[TargeT]

Oh Gosh, I truly truly cannot resist::p:ROFL:

Target, you were micro agressor of obese people.

No way out of it - white male, having a white penis and worst, a military.

I will prove that the food intake IS NOT proportional to weight gain.

And soon, you gone have Obese Riots (pun intended) all over society claiming to stop the discrimination (and mostly in Virgin Island lol)

Haha, I don't think "micro-agression" exists, I think it's a made up term so that people who get their feelings hurt can shift blame to an external source instead of addressing where the issue actually resides.

so.. ;)

But I'd love to have a discussion with you.




I wonder what is planned for China and Russia, maybe Japanese against Chinese?

The same thing that happened in the US during the industrial revolution... degradation of the family unit, milking the expanding "working/middle class" for all it's worth & consolidating more wealth.... except this time with a base of over 1BILLION people, instead of just a few million... They've already increased military spending, the "east" is poised to dethrone the "west"... at least that seems to be the grand design, the reality is a bit further from that mehtinks...




And the most astouding was, a few years ago, college students throughout the province protesting for free schooling, while it cost very little in the province, up to a point where the general public were asking what are the protest for. In fact, there were quite a lot of riots too, which were basically never mentioned either. This was a way to pitt a group of people, the young, against the adults. It did not work for very long. As Quebec is a trial ground for lots of social stuff (from the CIA), it was understood that you cannot pitt generations against each other any more, it does not woirk as it did with the baby boomers when they were young. So you have to put races at work instead.


Yes, lots of tactics being tried out there.. only a few working and only because of the intellectual apathy of the participants.

[pyrangello]

Can somebody please post this UTube picture with the link for this video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0qD2K2RWkc Its called I am not black. you are not white, over 10 millions views - OVER 10 MILLION VIEWS AND YES SO TRUE!

THIS ALL STARTS WITH LEADERSHIP, LEADERSHIP TO STOP THE TITLES AND LABELS , LEADERSHIP TO PUT OUT A SMOLDERING SMOKE SO IT DOESNT BECOME A FIRE, LEADERSHIP , FAITH AND THE CONVICTION TO BRING US TOGETHER AS ONE , TO EMPOWER, AND INSPIRE! AND FOLLOW A COMMON GOAL OF THE HUMAN SPIRIT WITH FAITH!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0qD2K2RWkc

[Ernie Nemeth]

What needs to be said can't be said.

This is still a white dominated world. All other denominations have suffered under the white man's rule.
And don't be fooled - even white has shades...depending on who is standing next to you

This may slowly be changing. It may be more about who has the most money, nowadays.

The American phenomena of race wars is a unique dynamic. In Canada we do not have , sorry, ghettos. And we don't have inner-city gangs. It is these that allow hate to spread and once the flashover point is reached a riot results with surprising ease. In America the inequality based on race is apparent, and is tolerated - for decades! Not much surprise the oppressed lash out from time to time as they have. And now as the economic levers are turned more pressure is placed on the least able to cope. The least able to cope are minorities, single mothers, and the elderly - as these make up the bulk of the "poor".

Race riots may only be the leading edge of a much bigger storm as the financial crisis between the "haves" and "have nots" intensifies. Soon we might be looking at apocalyptic Food Wars.

[TargeT]

What needs to be said can't be said.

This is still a white dominated world. All other denominations have suffered under the white man's rule.
And don't be fooled - even white has shades...depending on who is standing next to you

This may slowly be changing. It may be more about who has the most money, nowadays.

"white dominated world" is just playing into what they are "selling" it has ALWAYS been about money & power; never about race. Every monarchy out there is an example, and there are many many "non-white" historical examples... I wonder if it ever "was" a "white thing" or that's just being clung to recently because it's convenient and easy to point out in the northern hemisphere (where that particular type of person is historically from).


In America the inequality based on race is apparent, and is tolerated - for decades!

Here I think you're buying into the propaganda again... inequality based on WHAT???

There are FAR more white poverty house holds than ANY minority... (In fact, more than all of them combined... as it should be statistically in an equal nation)

25,659,922 whites below the poverty line vs 9,472,583 blacks below the poverty line (11,197,648 hispanics.. where are the hispanic riots??) (https://www.census.gov/prod/2013pubs/acsbr11-17.pdf)


The numbers give truth to the lies... and they ARE lies.

Any argument I've heard falls apart after a bit of research (we have been TOLD certain things that just aren't true (surprise surprise??))

[Flash]

What needs to be said can't be said.

Race riots may only be the leading edge of a much bigger storm as the financial crisis between the "haves" and "have nots" intensifies. Soon we might be looking at apocalyptic Food Wars.

very good point Ernie. I would even believe that an economic collapse is coming and that races are put against each other so that they will be infighting, instead of fighting and targetting the 1% of those up there with all the revenues. Planned and organised riots in order to escape the major ones when time comes to put the whole economy down. Soros given work by his bosses.

[TargeT]

What needs to be said can't be said.

Race riots may only be the leading edge of a much bigger storm as the financial crisis between the "haves" and "have nots" intensifies. Soon we might be looking at apocalyptic Food Wars.

very good point Ernie. I would even believe that an economic collapse is coming and that races are put against each other so that they will be infighting, instead of fighting and targetting the 1% of those up there with all the revenues. Planned and organised riots in order to escape the major ones when time comes to put the whole economy down. Soros given work by his bosses.

Race wars the : problem (seems to be on-going)

Food riots or just civil riots: reaction (seems to be on-going)

Solution: ?? Can't be something as bland as Martial law can it (National guard troops already deployed (http://wgntv.com/2016/09/22/violent-protests-in-charlotte-for-2nd-night-national-guard-deployed/) severa (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-wisconsin-police-idUSKCN10P06W)l times (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Baltimore_protests))

Distraction from world events (Our recent, blantant syria bombing maybe? (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/18/world/middleeast/us-airstrike-syrian-troops-isis-russia.html?_r=0) there has been (https://www.yahoo.com/news/moscow-denies-russian-syrian-planes-bombed-aid-convoy-001839642.html) some back (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/20/un-aid-convoy-attack-syria-us-russia) and forth "actions" (http://edition.cnn.com/2016/09/20/politics/syria-convoy-strike-us-conclusion-russia/) since then. The not-so-subtle west-to-east economic power shift (http://www.globalresearch.ca/global-shift-in-the-balance-of-power-is-moving-from-west-to-east/5437388)?)?

I'm not really sure.

[bluestflame]

http://www.rense.com/general61/thecaseofgeorgesoros.htm

[ghostrider]

The story i heard was a black prson was shot by a black officer and STILL it was turnef into a race issue ...

[Atlas]

BLACK BLOC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_bloc), which the mainstream medias describes as "vandals" or "terrorists":
lJn47jnX39o

[Flash]

http://www.rense.com/general61/thecaseofgeorgesoros.htm

long but very very interesting read, a shame it is so long and so filled with foreign names, because many North American do not have the patience to read it all. But very interesting.

In a few words, Soros' foundation "Open Society" is plainly a communist/russian plant in the West to disorganise and create revolutions that could be overtaken by communists.

Interesting.

[shaberon]

Just to throw this out there...some of my ancestors owned slaves. Unlike what, doubtless, happened to many of them...the children were able to go to school, and if anyone was sick, then a doctor was called (back in the days when a doctor would come to your house). So their lives were not all that bad; sometimes, slavery to a kind master, is better than "freedom".

Blacks are not all on the same page. Back in the 60s, there were some "peaceful sit-ins" here in NC, which were basically...well-dressed, polite blacks entered segregated establishments, and simply asked to be treated like anyone else. These kinds of older guys, seriously do not like raggy-looking, rude uppity blacks, finding it a complete insult that flies in the face of what they were trying to achieve.

This kettle has been brewing the whole time, it has never not been there. There has always been some minority of blacks who totally feel like "it's the white man" and look to attack or kill any random white person. Of course, they have plenty of intra-community violence, I can think of the shutdown of the black-oriented Apple Chill street festival and various night clubs due to shootings. The area isn't called "little Chicago" for nothing--there are tons of shootings, random or intentional.

They could make short work of a city, but, I would have to advise them against any kind of full-on race war. The ex-military and mostly agricultural white people have all the good guns and millions of rounds. The Class III licenses granted by mostly white sheriffs to mostly white business men for fully automatic weaponry are, in some places, not uncommon.

I can certainly understand why anyone is resentful and feels oppressed. It doesn't take a CIA plot to set them off; any opportunity will do.

It probably wouldn't be so bad if the country had really promoted the "general welfare" of the people, but since...that hasn't happened...you will see more and more violent eruptions, not just of this kind.

[NancyV]

I've never been a racist but lately I have been getting very pissed off at the attempts by so many blacks to blame whites for many of the circumstances in their lives. It's obviously being promoted by the mainstream media so likely some powerful people want riots. chaos and/or a race war to happen.

Why are there more blacks in prison? Because a much larger percentage of them commit crimes. Whenever I hear the crap about how it's not fair that more blacks are in prison I assume they are ignorant of the fact that more blacks commit crimes than whites, Hispanics or Asians. Many more blacks kill blacks than whites kill blacks. Why don't they get outraged about that? Because they are the racists.

I am also no longer going to be even slightly politically correct about my disgust with the black riots and the blame whites for everything games. If they actually do start a race war they might be surprised when they realize that many of us will fight and that they are not going to win as they are only 13% + or - of the population. I still don't judge a person by their race but I certainly have become more and more upset with how many blacks seem to be so easily falling into the trap that has been laid for them. I also think BLM should be designated as a terrorist group.

[TargeT]

I also think BLM should be designated as a terrorist group.



"Domestic terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:

Involve acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
Appear intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination. or kidnapping; and
Occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S.
https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/terrorism

Certainly seems like a case could be made for that.

[Sueanne47]

I also think BLM should be designated as a terrorist group.

You are so right and yes Flash, Soros is up to his old tricks again.

[DNA]

This isn't about white vs blacks.
Let me ask folks one question. If police officers who committed murder while on duty were rightfully prosecuted for their actions just as any ordinary citizen would be, would we be having these problems that are being construed as race problems?
The answer is no.
This is really a simple matter.
Cops will not testify against cops. It is part of their culture. If a cop witnesses another cop committing unlawful acts of violence including murder a cop is expected to either look the other way, and or help cover up the incident. I know folks out there are thinking not all cops are bad. And you may be right, but if a good cop goes against the culture of corruption in the police force he will feel the full wrath of the police force from the lowest subordinate to the highest ranking officers. This type of peer pressure far surpasses anything you or I have experienced in high school or what not. So in the end a good cop will either get with the program, or leave the police force.
The program is the culture of corruption.
In the end that means no good cops.
And that is only the beginning.
State and Federal prosecuters work "with" the police, and as such they rarely try and convict cops. Evidence is often lost and or tampered with, plea deals are often extroidinarily lenient.
And then we have the judges residing over the proceedings. Who do the same thing in so far as incredibly lenient sentences, which are usually in the ball park of being fired from the police force. Which is a horrible slap in the face to the family of a murdered loved one.
I think I've said enough.


The ONLY reason we are seeing the Police Brutality crimes that we are seeing now get any kind of traction is due to the overwhelming prevalence of phone video cameras.


Cops almost NEVER testify against Cops. Cops plant guns and drugs on victims to help legitimize their actions.
The justice system in the US needs to be overhauled, especially in so far as beat cops are trained.
Police Academies need to be overhauled and the culture of corruption needs to be addressed for what it is.

[Atlas]

BlackLivesMatter in Brazil Against Police Brutality:
C4Tc4Y1SLJU
The most dangerous cop: the Robocop
bcqY7UwT3yk

[Ernie Nemeth]

The designation of "crime" itself is biased. Any argument based on existing definitions and decrees are flawed from the start. They do not uphold common human values.

It may have changed or is in the process of changing, but the entire corporate structure is/was based upon white, non-minority rule. This was/is primarily a British operation from the beginning, after all. Of course it's about the money. This society is entirely about servitude masked by a veneer of goodwill and fair play. Upwards of 80 percent of our toil is stolen from us under the pretext of the common good, yet things get progressively worse. We are fleeced like sheep, and like sheep we jump back in the pen happy to be free of our burden (the burden of abundance and responsibility).

We, none of us seem to understand the wealth of this world. We are wealthy beyond measure! We have everything we need, plenty of everything. The cost for this bounty need not be a lifetime of toil.

Our greatest minds today work on better drones and bombs and delivery systems of death. Imagine if they could focus on the common man's plight...

We need to understand that the wealth of this world will not disappear when the financial markets finally crash. The wealth of this world is its people, it is they that must be freed of the Babylonian money magic game. Money becomes chains that shackle and enslave - it will always ultimately be so. There is another way.

We are rich by virtue of birth and numbers. We have never been allowed to see it because it is our masters' undoing. We don't have to scrabble, we only need to cooperate. We are all the same. None are more same than any other.

We live in a culture of corruption, as DNA says. No half measures will work for that very reason. No argument that begins somewhere within the culture of corruption can hold. And since we cannot imagine a world of cooperation and the true abundance we can create there are no answers, no guidance, no way out.

Jobless recoveries don't happen in the real world, where people need to eat. Where did all that wealth go?

Race wars are just a distraction in comparison to this sad commentary on the human condition.

[TargeT]

We certainly aren't talking about this, are we?:
qYTO-i_gd2I

War in Yemen?
That deserves a lot of attention IMO.

[rgray222]

Do you ever think that we are chasing our tails when it comes to solving some of the worlds problems?

Labels originate with politicians and are supported by the media. As long as we freely use labels we will never realise equality, never. As long as politicians create victims our problems will never be solved.

We focus on riots in the streets, police shootings and high incarceration levels and not the economic conditions that deny quality jobs, schools that deny choice and quality education. Now that the politicians have people believing that they are victims of the system the problems become self-perpetuating and generational. The politicians can now step in and solve the very same problems that they have created. The victims feel that they have found their white knight and keep putting these criminals back into office.

We focus on Syrian refugees and not the civil war causing the refugee crisis. Choose the white knight you would like to believe in, but the truth is that Russia and the USA can equally share the blame for escalating this war. Solve the civil strife in Syria and you solve the refugee crisis.

People in the USA focus on illegal immigration and not the corruption, lack of education and lack of opportunity facing the people of Mexico (and other countries) forcing them to immigrate illegally. Focus human and economic resources on solving Mexico's problems and the immigration problem goes away. Choose your white knight, Trump to build the wall or Hillary to open the borders, neither one will actually solve a dam thing.

There is no will or desire to solve these problems. Without victims, politicians would become inconsequential.

How can we even begin to solve our problems, when by design the world is not even focused on the core problems.

[Mike]

Black Lives Matter..a terrorist group? Talk about playing into propoganda..sheesh. That wasnt a very intelligent take NancyV. Ignorant statements like these are alarmist at best and are uttered (or written) only by those who love to pretend that whites egregious treatment of blacks throughout history (and currently)has absolutely nothing to do with the current protests, the formation of groups like Black Lives Matter, or the number of blacks in prison vis a vis whites and hispanics..

Please be reasonable. You can't believe blacks are "falling for the trap that was laid out for them?" What an enormously intellectually lazy statement. Insulting too. Right, it has nothing to do with blatant injustice and police brutality. Leave it up to someone in the alt community to totally ignore the infinite shades of grey here and just label it conspiracy. Traps? Youve clearly fallen into one yourself...the one that ignorantly justifies the profound injustices committed against blacks by whites all while acting as though it has nothing to do with the current situation....all while declaring "youre not a racist". Please do better!

Sorry TargeT, but this thread has a very fox news feel to it. You can graph and and pie chart me to death, but I'm still not buying the aggrieved white man angle youre passive aggressively trying to pull off here. No amount of statistical data will distract from your phony objectivity.

Any time there has been a race related thread here in the past, youve always been if not passive aggressively racist, then at least vigorously white. And then NancyV will sweep in making one racist insinuation after another, all while smugly claiming "she's not racist". Ive seen this dance before. I don't think youre fooling anyone.

Anyone with a sincere interest in whats going on now racially in the states needs to open their eyes and look around. Thats all. It's all there right in front of you..and its very obvious.

[TargeT]

whites egregious treatment of blacks throughout history (and currently)
Please do elaborate. What current treatment?


has absolutely nothing to do with the current protests, the formation of groups like Black Lives Matter, or the number of blacks in prison vis a vis whites and hispanics..

In charlotte, a black female cop, shot a black man (that would not comply with police instructions), there have been two days of rioting... or do you also insist on call this protesting?

what is being protested here:
gp0Z0MTxt-w


Please be reasonable. You can't believe blacks are "falling for the trap that was laid out for them?" What an enormously intellectually lazy statement. Insulting too. Right, it has nothing to do with blatant injustice and police brutality.

Please expand on Blatant injustice AND police brutality with OUT being intellectually lazy; I have offered references to my statements can you?

You've already said you don't want to see graphs, how would you like reality displayed to you?


Leave it up to someone in the alt community to totally ignore the infinite shades of grey here and just label it conspiracy. Traps? Youve clearly fallen into one yourself...the one that ignorantly justifies the profound injustices committed against blacks by whites all while acting as though it has nothing to do with the current situation....all while declaring "youre not a racist". Please do better!

Please detail said injustices. they must be obvious, yeah?


Sorry TargeT, but this thread has a very fox news feel to it. You can graph and and pie chart me to death, but I'm still not buying the aggrieved white man angle youre passive aggressively trying to pull off here. No amount of statistical data will distract from your phony objectivity.
What does fox news have to do with it (other than logical fallacy)... no pie charts? :(
Ok, so data won't work, what will? hugs? butterflies? maybe if we all close our eyes it will go away?

How does this NOT deserve a discussion?


Any time there has been a race related thread here in the past, youve always been if not passive aggressively racist, then at least vigorously white. And then NancyV will sweep in making one racist insinuation after another, all while smugly claiming "she's not racist". Ive seen this dance before. I don't think youre fooling anyone.

Anyone with a sincere interest in whats going on now racially in the states needs to open their eyes and look around. Thats all. It's all there right in front of you..and its very obvious.

I've been passive aggressively wondering what the hell is being talked about.. haha I mean I live in an area where I experience actual bigotry (I wouldn't call it racisim,, more like "outsiderism") at a level that I am shocked there are not people going to jail.

I agree, just open your eyes and look around.. but data, reality.. that is a part of looking around. if you haven't spent any time in the projects (that's where my volunteers are from, I'm there all the time) and seen first hand what this culture of violence is like (Did I mention I live in one of the top 10 murder rate countries in the world (http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2014/04/articles/crime/top-10-most-dangerous-cruise-destinations-in-the-world/)?) then where are you comming up with these opinions from (now be honest with yourself)?

I KNOW a version of what it's like in these extreme poverty communities, I've personally experienced it for the past nearly 4 years.

I think your perspective is baseless and you have little to no actual experience on this topic; you are repeating talking points that have no basis in reality when explored fully.

But we can walk through them if you want.

[rgray222]

Martin Luther King was best known for his role in the advancement of civil rights using nonviolent civil disobedience. Sorry Mike, but your comment makes me think of Martin's eyes facing toward the sky rolling over in his grave and gently placing his forehead on his foreman and weeping!

Martin believed his role was to offer solutions and not criticism. He was smart enough to know that there were always two sides to every issue and pointing fingers never moved the argument forward.


Black Lives Matter..a terrorist group? Talk about playing into propoganda..sheesh. That wasnt a very intelligent take NancyV. Ignorant statements like these are alarmist at best and are uttered (or written) only by those who love to pretend that whites egregious treatment of blacks throughout history (and currently)has absolutely nothing to do with the current protests, the formation of groups like Black Lives Matter, or the number of blacks in prison vis a vis whites and hispanics..

Please be reasonable. You can't believe blacks are "falling for the trap that was laid out for them?" What an enormously intellectually lazy statement. Insulting too. Right, it has nothing to do with blatant injustice and police brutality. Leave it up to someone in the alt community to totally ignore the infinite shades of grey here and just label it conspiracy. Traps? Youve clearly fallen into one yourself...the one that ignorantly justifies the profound injustices committed against blacks by whites all while acting as though it has nothing to do with the current situation....all while declaring "youre not a racist". Please do better!

Sorry TargeT, but this thread has a very fox news feel to it. You can graph and and pie chart me to death, but I'm still not buying the aggrieved white man angle youre passive aggressively trying to pull off here. No amount of statistical data will distract from your phony objectivity.

Any time there has been a race related thread here in the past, youve always been if not passive aggressively racist, then at least vigorously white. And then NancyV will sweep in making one racist insinuation after another, all while smugly claiming "she's not racist". Ive seen this dance before. I don't think youre fooling anyone.

Anyone with a sincere interest in whats going on now racially in the states needs to open their eyes and look around. Thats all. It's all there right in front of you..and its very obvious.

[bluestflame]

hnnloUWNlUA dunno , put up for further research , i'm not too " on it" at the moment

[Atlas]

whites egregious treatment of blacks throughout history [...]
Please do elaborate. [...]
The first metal handcuffs as we may recognize them today came into existence with the Bronze and Iron ages (source (http://tihk.co/blogs/news/14756441-a-history-of-handcuffs))

Handcuffs? The guy has been shot at least 3 times! what will he do with just his hands? I don't get it...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bd/Old_bracelets_%28aka%29.jpg/486px-Old_bracelets_%28aka%29.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handcuffs

One of the first black women to be ordained in the Church of England: 'slave' chains
GRmlGg4ks8E
http://cdn26.us1.fansshare.com/photo/amistad/svod-di-amistad-cast-1605352304.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutiny_on_the_Amistad

[Mike]

whites egregious treatment of blacks throughout history (and currently)
Please do elaborate. What current treatment?


has absolutely nothing to do with the current protests, the formation of groups like Black Lives Matter, or the number of blacks in prison vis a vis whites and hispanics..

In charlotte, a black female cop, shot a black man (that would not comply with police instructions), there have been two days of rioting... or do you also insist on call this protesting?

what is being protested here:
gp0Z0MTxt-w


Please be reasonable. You can't believe blacks are "falling for the trap that was laid out for them?" What an enormously intellectually lazy statement. Insulting too. Right, it has nothing to do with blatant injustice and police brutality.

Please expand on Blatant injustice AND police brutality with OUT being intellectually lazy; I have offered references to my statements can you?

You've already said you don't want to see graphs, how would you like reality displayed to you?


Leave it up to someone in the alt community to totally ignore the infinite shades of grey here and just label it conspiracy. Traps? Youve clearly fallen into one yourself...the one that ignorantly justifies the profound injustices committed against blacks by whites all while acting as though it has nothing to do with the current situation....all while declaring "youre not a racist". Please do better!

Please detail said injustices. they must be obvious, yeah?


Sorry TargeT, but this thread has a very fox news feel to it. You can graph and and pie chart me to death, but I'm still not buying the aggrieved white man angle youre passive aggressively trying to pull off here. No amount of statistical data will distract from your phony objectivity.
What does fox news have to do with it (other than logical fallacy)... no pie charts? :(
Ok, so data won't work, what will? hugs? butterflies? maybe if we all close our eyes it will go away?

How does this NOT deserve a discussion?


Any time there has been a race related thread here in the past, youve always been if not passive aggressively racist, then at least vigorously white. And then NancyV will sweep in making one racist insinuation after another, all while smugly claiming "she's not racist". Ive seen this dance before. I don't think youre fooling anyone.

Anyone with a sincere interest in whats going on now racially in the states needs to open their eyes and look around. Thats all. It's all there right in front of you..and its very obvious.

I've been passive aggressively wondering what the hell is being talked about.. haha I mean I live in an area where I experience actual bigotry (I wouldn't call it racisim,, more like "outsiderism") at a level that I am shocked there are not people going to jail.

I agree, just open your eyes and look around.. but data, reality.. that is a part of looking around. if you haven't spent any time in the projects (that's where my volunteers are from, I'm there all the time) and seen first hand what this culture of violence is like (Did I mention I live in one of the top 10 murder rate countries in the world (http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2014/04/articles/crime/top-10-most-dangerous-cruise-destinations-in-the-world/)?) then where are you comming up with these opinions from (now be honest with yourself)?

I KNOW a version of what it's like in these extreme poverty communities, I've personally experienced it for the past nearly 4 years.

I think your perspective is baseless and you have little to no actual experience on this topic; you are repeating talking points that have no basis in reality when explored fully.

But we can walk through them if you want.




What current treatment??? Huh?

are you being thick? Seriously?

If thats our starting baseline, we're not going to get very far. Besides, I'm not going to have a power point debate with you..thats your little game. It would be like having a debate on the holocaust with a holocaust denier. I don't need to see a study touting the health benefits of urination in order to go take a leak, understand?

Look, I know what youre doing. Its not appreciated. But please, carry on. I won't even interrupt.

[Calz]

How many hundreds of millions of dollars have been shoved onto BLM (Ford, Soros and so on)???

What might we expect those dollars to do??:

Rather simple there Avalonians.

[ulli]

I've lived for years in a black country in the Caribbean, immersed as a white minority person in a 90% black population.
Shopping on streets where I would sometimes be the only white person in thick crowds of blacks. Was warned by a white friend in LA never to go "south of Wilshire Blvd" and I did anyway. Got nothing but good vibes back from the people there.
I have formed deep and lasting friendships in Barbados and also with black Americans, but also came across blantant anti-whire racism that made my jaws drop and sometimes reduced me to tears.
There is no doubt that hatred is being fomented on boh sides, via a carefully plotted agenda, from behind the scenes.
So I feel that Target is having a similar experience now, and is just discovering how deep that rabbit hole goes.

Only after I moved to Latin America did I find a place where I could see things from a fresh perpective, and in a less emotional light. I want to bring all my black friends here, so that people from both sides can experience each other's cultures. The only way forward into a peaceful world is by sharing food, by offering hospitality, potlucks, potlucks, potlucks, and then sorting the wheat from the chaff, ie discovering that real judgments are done at the individual level, as the whole spectrum from kindness to vengeful hostility is found in all groups equally.
The only community that tackles these issues in a practical way is the Baha'i community.
The problem is when individuals become identified with large groups, and whenever that happens it is a sign that someone higher up has an agenda and is stirring the pot.
I found Target's comments to be fair, and based on real experience, and anyone that has a powerful opposite opinion should just go and live for a few years in all of the world's cultures to discover that the majority of people are being bombarded by divisive agendas, and that by committing to right living and practising decency in one's personal affairs is the only way forward.

[greybeard]

Rosaline my wife is black from Cameroon.
I may have "Noticed" she was black to begin with but now she is Rosaline.
She has University education--was a teacher in her own country --here she is a support worker which she enjoys but its well below her qualifications and earning capacity.
Slave labor frankly---underpaid for what they do.

She got a degree in entrepreneurship at Edinburgh University in order to start the charity on my signature--the web site there is well worth a visit

However she feels at times that there is some racial prejudiced here--I don't see that and maybe she is oversensitive--its not blatent in your face but it may be subtle.
People are like that--When I was a child we did not associate with kids across the river --we knew our boundaries and they should keep to theirs--ha ha.
No body should be discriminated against for any reason what soever.

Chris

[norman]

https://commdiginews-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/george-soros-700x422.jpg


....... LOVELY JUBBELY ......

That's my millions..... and I'm not even "black"

[Awakening2014]

"25,659,922 whites below the poverty line vs 9,472,583 blacks below the poverty line (11,197,648 hispanics.. where are the hispanic riots??) (https://www.census.gov/prod/2013pubs/acsbr11-17.pdf)


The numbers give truth to the lies... and they ARE lies.

Any argument I've heard falls apart after a bit of research (we have been TOLD certain things that just aren't true (surprise surprise??))[/QUOTE]"

Doesn't this mean that of the 12.3% of black Americans that about 24% are below poverty. With the information I received from the census bureau that would mean about 12% of white Americans are below poverty. The numbers of white Americans below poverty may be greater than black, but in percentage of each population, black Americans are about twice as likely for poverty.

I am a white American and I know most Americans are caught up in the propaganda and this black vs white bs. It is so devastating to see so many of my brothers and sisters falling for this carefully orchestrated agenda.

[TargeT]

whites egregious treatment of blacks throughout history [...]
Please do elaborate. [...]
The first metal handcuffs as we may recognize them today came into existence with the Bronze and Iron ages (source (http://tihk.co/blogs/news/14756441-a-history-of-handcuffs))


So nothing recent then, certainly nothing I nor anyone I know participated in.


I'd like some elaboration on the current treatment.





whites egregious treatment of blacks throughout history (and currently)
Please do elaborate. What current treatment?

What you are doing is basically a strawman (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman) logical fallacy. I bet you didn't even do it intentionally, it's just how you (most people really) are conditioned to communicate. You think the above is relevant to the Charlotte riots?


What current treatment??? Huh?

are you being thick? Seriously?

If thats our starting baseline, we're not going to get very far. Besides, I'm not going to have a power point debate with you..thats your little game. It would be like having a debate on the holocaust with a holocaust denier. I don't need to see a study touting the health benefits of urination in order to go take a leak, understand?

Look, I know what youre doing. Its not appreciated. But please, carry on. I won't even interrupt.

OK, so you have absolutely nothing and are trying to play it off like your too good to discuss your opinions because I'm some how beneath you.

I don't think you understand the purpose of debate, it's to comparatively analyze a topic from different points of view (two or more).... That's what I think it is anyway, zero to do with power.

Here's what the dictionary says:


Full Definition of debate

: a contention by words or arguments:
as
a : the formal discussion of a motion before a deliberative body according to the rules of parliamentary procedure
b : a regulated discussion of a proposition between two matched sides

If you want to NOT debate then do you only want to listen to opinions that mirror yours; this is not a very intellectually healthy stance to take.



"25,659,922 whites below the poverty line vs 9,472,583 blacks below the poverty line (11,197,648 hispanics.. where are the hispanic riots??) (https://www.census.gov/prod/2013pubs/acsbr11-17.pdf)


The numbers give truth to the lies... and they ARE lies.

Any argument I've heard falls apart after a bit of research (we have been TOLD certain things that just aren't true (surprise surprise??))"

Doesn't this mean that of the 12.3% of black Americans that about 24% are below poverty. With the information I received from the census bureau that would mean about 12% of white Americans are below poverty. The numbers of white Americans below poverty may be greater than black, but in percentage of each population, black Americans are about twice as likely for poverty.

I am a white American and I know most Americans are caught up in the propaganda and this black vs white bs. It is so devastating to see so many of my brothers and sisters falling for this carefully orchestrated agenda.

That's what I was driving at, I'm saying there ARE issues in that community, but it's not because of systemic racism.. it's because of a culture issue (something I think is absolutely possible to change, but will take time & a lot of mentor-ship).

[AutumnW]

What needs to be said can't be said.

This is still a white dominated world. All other denominations have suffered under the white man's rule.
And don't be fooled - even white has shades...depending on who is standing next to you

This may slowly be changing. It may be more about who has the most money, nowadays.

The American phenomena of race wars is a unique dynamic. In Canada we do not have , sorry, ghettos. And we don't have inner-city gangs. It is these that allow hate to spread and once the flashover point is reached a riot results with surprising ease. In America the inequality based on race is apparent, and is tolerated - for decades! Not much surprise the oppressed lash out from time to time as they have. And now as the economic levers are turned more pressure is placed on the least able to cope. The least able to cope are minorities, single mothers, and the elderly - as these make up the bulk of the "poor".

Race riots may only be the leading edge of a much bigger storm as the financial crisis between the "haves" and "have nots" intensifies. Soon we might be looking at apocalyptic Food Wars.

Whoa...Dude. In Canada we have Indian reservations. We have the 'highway of tears,' where serial killer or killers have been offing aboriginal women for decades and the police have turned their backs in them. We have a truly shameful history. We didn't have black slavery, but would have if we were an older nation.

[TargeT]

What needs to be said can't be said.

This is still a white dominated world. All other denominations have suffered under the white man's rule.
And don't be fooled - even white has shades...depending on who is standing next to you

This may slowly be changing. It may be more about who has the most money, nowadays.

The American phenomena of race wars is a unique dynamic. In Canada we do not have , sorry, ghettos. And we don't have inner-city gangs. It is these that allow hate to spread and once the flashover point is reached a riot results with surprising ease. In America the inequality based on race is apparent, and is tolerated - for decades! Not much surprise the oppressed lash out from time to time as they have. And now as the economic levers are turned more pressure is placed on the least able to cope. The least able to cope are minorities, single mothers, and the elderly - as these make up the bulk of the "poor".

Race riots may only be the leading edge of a much bigger storm as the financial crisis between the "haves" and "have nots" intensifies. Soon we might be looking at apocalyptic Food Wars.

Whoa...Dude. In Canada we have Indian reservations. We have the 'highway of tears,' where serial killer or killers have been offing aboriginal women for decades and the police have turned their backs in them. We have a truly shameful history. We didn't have black slavery, but would have if we were an older nation.


Slavery didn't officially end in Canada until 1953?? That can't be true, is it?

I'm pretty ignorant of Canadian history.

Modern slavery
Main article: Human trafficking in Canada

Slavery did not end with the ratifying of the Slavery Convention in 1953. Human trafficking in Canada has become a significant legal and political issue, and Canadian legislators have been criticized for having failed to deal with the problem in a more systematic way.[33] British Columbia's Office to Combat Trafficking in Persons formed in 2007, making British Columbia the first province of Canada to address human trafficking in a formal manner.[34] The biggest human trafficking case in Canadian history surrounded the dismantling of the Domotor-Kolompar criminal organization.[35] On June 6, 2012, the Government of Canada established the National Action Plan to Combat Human Trafficking in order to oppose human trafficking.[36] The Human Trafficking Taskforce was established in June 2012 to replace the Interdepartmental Working Group on Trafficking in Persons[37] as the body responsible for the development of public policy related to human trafficking in Canada.[38]

One current and highly publicized instance is the vast "disappearances" of Aboriginal woman which has been linked to human trafficking by some sources.[39] Former Prime Minister Stephen Harper had been reluctant to tackle the issue on the grounds that it is not a "sociological issue"[40] and declined to create a national inquiry into the issue counter to what his opponents say are United Nations and Inter-American Commission on Human Rights' opinions that the issue is significant and in need of higher inquiry.[40][41]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Canada

[AutumnW]

I don't live in the U.S but can easily see how the disenfranchised can become further excluded through a welfare system that breaks up families, a judicial system that encourages plea bargaining and a prison system that is punitive and excludes those with a record from meaningful employment and often from employment...period. So what to do? Deal drugs maybe?

The system is unfair to the poor who have been excluded from capitalism in many different ways. Neighbourhoods where the poor might have afforded housing were redlined by banks, bought up by landlords at bargain basement prices, with cash only offers.

The poor and particularly those with a criminal record have traditionally had to wade through a minefield of difficulties -- predatory lending, too.

It is ignorant to ignore the macro-aggression and focus on the 'micro-aggressions.' This is totally divisive and gives those who aren't poor or black or both a distorted idea of what is going on. Blacks are f'g well fed up. Their anger and how it manifests may not make immediate sense to many but it totally does to me.

[AutumnW]

Target, I think that article is defining slavery as indentured servitude that many farmworkers in Canada endured and still do. Canadians wear a halo that we don't deserve. We are no different than any other population. We just have lower stress in the upper middle educated class, and that DOES being out the best in people. Also, I would say our system of education is superior and our standing as a weak power astride a super power encourages us to have an outider's appreciation of the world. But we have a blind spot when it comes to our ancestor's mishandling and cruelty towards the original Canadians.

[TargeT]

Blacks are f'g well fed up. Their anger and how it manifests may not make immediate sense to many but it totally does to me.

I agree, but I think it's very important for any movement to be true to it's motivations & express it's real desires (BLM is disingenuous, by design).

I don't think that is happening now, this very well deserved (by all poor, no race in particular) "Poverty rage" is exactly what we SHOULD have right now.. the wealth inequality globally is horrific.

HOWEVER, this energy is being DIVERTED to a divide and conquer tactic of "race wars"... it's NOTHING to with race, and everything to do with systemic oppression of EVERYONE... we are watching the energy of what could be a useful movement be drained out and diverted... I find it very sad.

[AutumnW]

What needs to be said can't be said.

This is still a white dominated world. All other denominations have suffered under the white man's rule.
And don't be fooled - even white has shades...depending on who is standing next to you

This may slowly be changing. It may be more about who has the most money, nowadays.

The American phenomena of race wars is a unique dynamic. In Canada we do not have , sorry, ghettos. And we don't have inner-city gangs. It is these that allow hate to spread and once the flashover point is reached a riot results with surprising ease. In America the inequality based on race is apparent, and is tolerated - for decades! Not much surprise the oppressed lash out from time to time as they have. And now as the economic levers are turned more pressure is placed on the least able to cope. The least able to cope are minorities, single mothers, and the elderly - as these make up the bulk of the "poor".

Race riots may only be the leading edge of a much bigger storm as the financial crisis between the "haves" and "have nots" intensifies. Soon we might be looking at apocalyptic Food Wars.

Totally agree with your last sentence. We are headed towards food shortage due to water crises, global drought. I am trying to arrange my life so that I can help as many have-nots as possible. I hope others who have the means are doing the same. I hope and prey that dignity and compassion overwhelms the divisive forces that social justice warriors are making worse.

Even here, in Canada, so many young people are 'sleeping rough,'. They don't deserve this. It is NOT their fault

[seeker/reader]

Perspective really matters here. You really dont KNOW what it is like to be a black person in America unless you are a black person and experience first hand all that it entails. Armchair judgement is totally inappropriate, period.

[AutumnW]

Target,

I agree. I think this is the point Ernie Nemeth made so well. Race wars are the leading edge of the wedge. Someone is feeding this third wave feminist, safe space crapola, that focuses on white privilege while ignoring 'Money privilege.' I think much of it has to do with a campaign of deflection where traditional antagonisms are whipped up, scars ripped open, so we never let our anger really rip at the controllers.

And who benefits? Martin Scorcese's movie, 'Gangs of New York,' speaks to this dynamic with stunning cinematography, to boot.

[Dianamar]

Do you get the feeling this is being orchestrated to divide the races like Feminism divided Men and Women ?

[TargeT]

Do you get the feeling this is being orchestrated to divide the races like Feminism divided Men and Women ?

Yes.
Among other things, there are lot of distractions out there right now when we should be most focused on government machinations.

[Atlas]

http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-the-idea-that-some-lives-matter-less-is-the-root-of-all-that-is-wrong-with-the-world-paul-farmer-50-26-60.jpg

[onawah]

Who’s Behind the Charlotte Riots? Police Say 70% of Arrests are from Out of State Being Bussed In
Matt Agorist September 23, 2016
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/behind-charlotte-riots-police-criminals/


Under questionable circumstances still flaring factious public division, police stole the life Keith Lamont Scott this week. His death sparked peaceful protests, later turned so violent on the streets of Charlotte, one reporter from an albeit conservative outlet likened the scene to the military assault on the West Bank by Israel.
What caused the Charlotte protests to go from peaceful to chaotic?
On CNN Thursday night, Todd Walther, spokesman for the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Fraternal Order of Police told CNN’s Erin Burnett that the ‘protesters’ in Charlotte are ‘instigators’ being brought in from outside the state.
“This is not Charlotte that’s out here. These are outside entities that are coming in and causing these problems. These are not protestors, these are criminals.”
“We’ve got the instigators that are coming in from the outside. They were coming in on buses from out of state. If you go back and look at some of the arrests that were made last night. I can about say probably 70% of those had out-of-state IDs. They’re not coming from Charlotte.”
While this may sound outrageous, this tactic appears to be the modus operandi for those who wish to turn peaceful protests into destructive riots.
As Zero Hedge reports, as shocking as this statement is, it should not be a total surprise. 18 months ago, as the riots flared in Ferguson, there was one man pulling the strings of this ‘domestic false flag’… George Soros. In an apparent effort to “keep the media’s attention on the city and to widen the scope of the incident to focus on interrelated causes — not just the overpolicing and racial discrimination narratives that were highlighted by the news media in August,” liberal billionaire George Soros donated $33million to social justice organizations which helped turn events in Ferguson from a local protest into a national flashpoint.
We know, this sounds outrageous. However, consider the following.
As the Free Thought Project has continued to report, memos and documents published by DCLeaks continue shedding light on billionaire globalist George Soros and his progressive organization, Open Society Foundations (OSF). Due to their poor digital curation, however, the leaks are hard to comb through which is leading to the information slowly trickling out. The latest of the documents, however, reveals the billionaire’s attempt to organize a “national movement” to create a federalized police force.
The document shows that OSF saw the killings of Mike Brown, Eric Garner, Walter Scott, and Freddie Gray as an opportunity to implement this mission of federal police guidelines. OSF, according to the documents, then held a meeting titled, “Police Reform: How to Take Advantage of the Crisis of the Moment and Drive Long-Term Institutional Change in Police-Community Practice.”

The memo further documents that Soros-financed groups and personalities influenced a Task Force on 21st Century Policing, created by President Obama. Last may, the task force released a final report consisting of 60 recommendations recommending protocol to local departments on how to modify policing practices.
The information is from a 61-page report of an Open Society U.S. Programs Board Meeting that took place in New York City in May of last year.
States the board meeting document:
The federal government is seeking philanthropic support for a number of its initiatives. In addition to seeking support to advance the implementation of the recommendations of the Presidential Taskforce, the White House recently launched the Policing Data Initiative to explore how best to use data and technology to build trust, voice, and solutions to improve community policing. The Department of Justice recently selected the first six cities to host pilot sites for the National Initiative for Building Community Trust and Justice, which was launched last fall to help repair and strengthen the relationship between law enforcement and the communities they serve by exploring strategies intended to enhance procedural justice, reduce implicit bias, and support racial reconciliation.
We are gaining a better understanding of these efforts in order to determine how best USP can use this moment to create a national movement. We have already had a set of preliminary conversations with about a dozen key stakeholders and will undertake a field scan to map the areas of work currently underway to advance police reform, including an assessment of the redundancies and gaps in work, and opportunities for collaboration. As we proceed, we will engage the funder network we helped to establish, the Executive Alliance on Men and Boys of Color, which now includes forty foundations.
U.S. Programs (USP) is a part of OSF with the stated mission of working to further a vibrant democratic society in which all people can meaningfully participate in its civic, economic, and political life.
According to the above excerpt, USP was thinking of ways to capitalize on police killings to ‘create a national movement’ to implement their agenda — and Charlotte fits the description.
The think tank also raises the question of how to properly steer the ostensible ‘grassroots’ organizations, such as Black Lives Matter, to achieve USP goals.
The events of the past several months have understandably led to a wide range of activities, including a variety of advocacy efforts, to respond to the significant challenges in policing that have been exposed and the opportunity to promote meaningful and lasting change. For example, organized under the banner of the Civil Rights Coalition on Police Reform, organizations like the Lawyers’ Committee for Civil Rights Under the Law, LCCHR, and LDF are advocating for federal reform efforts with a particular emphasis on data collection and transparency and, as noted above, 35 effecting federal funding streams. A variety of other national advocacy organizations, including grantees Advancement Project, PolicyLink, the Center for Popular Democracy and the ACLU are working to provide advocates with toolkits and resources to help their organizing efforts. Locally based groups such as the Ohio Student Association, the Organization for Black Struggle, the Asian Law Caucus, and the ACLU of New Jersey, to name a few, are advocating for specific reforms at the city and state levels. Another layer of grassroots and youth-oriented groups like Freedom Side, Ferguson Action, Black Lives Matter and Million Hoodies Movement for Justice are also advocating for specific reforms. The range of efforts underway raises a number of questions and concerns about capacity, the need for coordination and the appropriate prioritization of policy objectives, among others, which we will discuss in the policing portion of the meeting.
While the intentions of reforming police in America seem noble, the very idea of a Soros-led initiative is chilling.
Another memo, leaked last month, showed the billionaire was potentially funding the Black Lives Matter movement, to the tune of $650,000. We now know why.

Read more at http://thefreethoughtproject.com/behind-charlotte-riots-police-criminals/#FCc1RU3ioRhgWxKx.99

[TargeT]

Well that Soros BLM money had to go somewhere right?

Sounds exactly like what I was talking about.

6cibCpy7L3I



One of the recent shootings:
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[Mike]

How many hundreds of millions of dollars have been shoved onto BLM (Ford, Soros and so on)???

What might we expect those dollars to do??:

Rather simple there Avalonians.


This is of course true Calzy, but its not enough to sort of pithily make that statement and then slide out the back door as if thats all there is to say on the matter. I think we need to be a little more responsible than that.

We all know any kind of "movement" of significance is gonna be filled with agent provocateurs. But let's not judge the entire BLM based on those provocateurs and their sponsors. I'm imagining a group of generally kind but slightly apathetic aliens discussing earth's future...would they casually dismiss us based on the relatively few sick lunatics running the planet, or would they see the bigger picture?

..and thats the important thing here: the big picture. Its TOO EASY to pick at the parts in an attempt to distract from that. And that big picture involves many, many well meaning people with good intentions who feel scared and marginalized and f#cked over by this thing called racism and all its ramifications..which includes but is not limited to things like police brutality. Soros may be financing it all, and busloads of outsiders may be coming in to stir the pot, but that doesnt just conveniently render the humanity of thousands of sincere well meaning people irrelevant. I'm of the belief that most people are inherently good. i'm quite certain there are many more good, well meaning people involved in BLM than bad. And thats where this thread misses the mark. It collates all the negative bits and throws them in your face all in an attempt to magnify a very specific part of the picture while ignoring all the rest of it,..while ignoring MOST of it..the bigger, more important picture (fox news)

DNA is right. The police force is an "old boys" network..and like the church, they will fiercely protect their own, no matter how sick and egregious an act is committed. And they resist any form of criticism, no matter how obvious, and instead lapse into this silly for or against us attitude reminiscent of bush jr. If you constructively criticise, youre "anti police". Theres absolutely no room for common sense there. Even as they and their supporters ask you to understand that "not all police are bad" they still won't extend the same understanding to BLM (all protesters are "anti cop"!) which is often ridiculously demonized and labelled a "terrorist group". Theyre accusing the other side of playing the game that they themselves are playing...and theyre very aware of it.

So to blame Soros or agent provacateurs or behind the scene agendas for our current siituation is to enitirely miss the point...and it also neglects to recognize the humanity and the very real and obvious fears and emotions and experiences of an entire race of people. Sure, those things are part of it, but to focus exclusively on them is,.imo, insensitive and irresponsible and intellectually and emotionally and spiritually lazy.

[TargeT]

i'm quite certain there are many more good, well meaning people involved in BLM than bad. And thats where this thread misses the mark. It collates all the negative bits and throws them in your face all in an attempt to magnify a very specific part of the picture while ignoring all the rest of it,..while ignoring MOST of it..the bigger, more important picture

there is nothing good about BLM, it's very name is divisive and leads to false premises.

There is no race issue here (it's purely a game of numbers) FAR MORE whites are killed by police than blacks every year.. but BLM? This problem has nothing to do with race and everything to do with a State that is out of control; race is the distraction.

[Mike]

i'm quite certain there are many more good, well meaning people involved in BLM than bad. And thats where this thread misses the mark. It collates all the negative bits and throws them in your face all in an attempt to magnify a very specific part of the picture while ignoring all the rest of it,..while ignoring MOST of it..the bigger, more important picture

there is nothing good about BLM, it's very name is divisive and leads to false premises.

There is no race issue here (it's purely a game of numbers) FAR MORE whites are killed by police than blacks every year.. but BLM? This problem has nothing to do with race and everything to do with a State that is out of control; race is the distraction.


Nonsense.

Youre seeing an "only" where it doesnt exist (only black lives matter). As backwards as youve been up till now, I refuse to believe that you dont understand the true intent in that title

I'd respect you much more if youd simply say what youre *really* thinking, instead of cloaking it all in this gobbledygook. Please put down your "white mans guide to openly and acceptably expressing racism in a politically correct way" and just spill it

Of course its not just a numbers game. That's absurd. Sigh, must I really explain why? (Christ, I feel like ashton kutcher is going to arrive any minute to announce that i'm being "punked") Besides, its *how* blacks are being killed as much as anything else

Please, less energy trying be clever and more actually being clever.

[TEOTWAIKI]

What needs to be said can't be said.

This is still a white dominated world. All other denominations have suffered under the white man's rule.
And don't be fooled - even white has shades...depending on who is standing next to you

This may slowly be changing. It may be more about who has the most money, nowadays.

The American phenomena of race wars is a unique dynamic. In Canada we do not have , sorry, ghettos. And we don't have inner-city gangs. It is these that allow hate to spread and once the flashover point is reached a riot results with surprising ease. In America the inequality based on race is apparent, and is tolerated - for decades! Not much surprise the oppressed lash out from time to time as they have. And now as the economic levers are turned more pressure is placed on the least able to cope. The least able to cope are minorities, single mothers, and the elderly - as these make up the bulk of the "poor".

Race riots may only be the leading edge of a much bigger storm as the financial crisis between the "haves" and "have nots" intensifies. Soon we might be looking at apocalyptic Food Wars.

Totally agree with your last sentence. We are headed towards food shortage due to water crises, global drought. I am trying to arrange my life so that I can help as many have-nots as possible. I hope others who have the means are doing the same. I hope and prey that dignity and compassion overwhelms the divisive forces that social justice warriors are making worse.

Even here, in Canada, so many young people are 'sleeping rough,'. They don't deserve this. It is NOT their fault

AutumnW,

If we get past the riots, refugee crisis, asteroids, superwave, Nibiru, Poleshift, Yellowstone, crust displacement, Killshot, sinkholes, tsunamis, etc :)

My ancestors warned me that they are very sad because the earth is drying and has been for a long, long time. The food crisis could be the REAL ELE that humans will need to face.

Just curious about your statement 'I am trying to arrange my life so that I can help as many have-nots as possible'. Could you elaborate on this?

[Spellbound]

The US is fibar'd.

Dave - Toronto

[Mike]

The US is fibar'd.

Dave - Toronto

Hi Dave,

What the hell does that mean?;)

And more importantly, what are you looking at in that picture?

[Intuitive Fish]

While we’re all being played with behind-the-scenes “divide and conquer” tactics, what exactly is dividing and conquering us? It’s easy to believe that Black people or protestors are the problem, but I think it’s important to distinguish between the crime and reactions to the crime.

It’s also necessary to acknowledge there are groups of people who generally suffer uniquely or more than others within human divisions like classism and ableism. And even though privileges and oppressions intersect, people of color such as Black people, Hispanics and Native Peoples statistically and daily face a very real problem: racism.

But I’m talking about system discriminations which permeate public education curriculum, mainstream media, wage gaps, laws, law enforcements, judicial systems, etc. (This is why racism tends to hide behind nationalism or patriotism.)

It doesn’t even require official stats to see this. All we have to do is look at common characteristics of people in power. The vast majority of political leaders and decision-makers, corporate CEO’s, business owners, science and tech panels, medical groups, religious clergy, lawyers, bankers and financiers… are white males - at least in the U.S., although racism is a global issue.

Are there more Black people in prison because they’re criminals? Or because they’re more likely to live in poverty, be turned down for work and get paid less? Or because ghettos are deliberately infiltrated with drug trade while Blacks are imprisoned for years for smoking weed or stealing a backpack? Are they racially profiled and targeted to meet police quotas? Even police members have revealed that their pressure to perform causes them to go after the most vulnerable, and they’re rewarded for it. Black slavery never ended; it was only rerouted to the prison system.

Socioeconomic privilege of the “Master Race” or “pure genetics” in order to preserve said “race” results in the suppression of everyone else. This means that it’s more challenging and difficult for the “have nots” to get an education, find work, stay out of jail, get paid enough to survive, have access to resources, find love and be accepted as a valuable member of society.

I think we all suffer under this matrix to a degree and in our own ways. But add extrajudicial killings to centuries of racial crimes; and protesting, organizing, starting discussions, or just trying to live with it simply doesn’t change anything. I’m really not sure how anyone can blame members of the Black community for trying to get public attention. At least they’re doing something to dismantle the hierarchical systems.

I hear daily from friends of color about their experiences of being harassed just for say, walking into a grocery store. It’s traumatizing and heartbreaking just to hear their stories. I don’t blame them for having feelings. How does victim-blaming, macho-criticizing emotions or even staying silent resolve anything?

Microagressions might not seem like a big deal (especially if you enjoy certain privileges) until you’re forced to deal with them every day. They add up and take a mental and emotional toll which affects a person’s work, relationships, ability to be an active member in society… which affects the entire world. I would think that persons who challenge the status quo would understand that. There’s a real struggle when your environment is afraid of you, or hostile or prejudiced against you.

Thankfully, I see the tide changing even with current events like the exposure of police brutality, Nazism, “white genociders” or constructing pipelines through indigenous sacred lands….

I think racism has always been there, but it was buried, not just under a KKK mask but within our own belief systems that says people of color (or people who are “different”) are dangerous. But the buried issues are now surfacing. Followers of Donald Trump for example, feel more bold in expressing how they’ve always felt which comes across as hate, but I think is ultimately fear. It’s almost a trend but certainly a relief to be able to ramble off racist remarks that haven’t seen the light of day because it was a faux pas to do so.

But we seem to have reached some kind of tipping point as a planet. The world is trying to evolve and diversity seems to be a primary pathway of this process. More oppressed people are standing up for themselves even if it costs them their career or their life. More POC’s are in positions of influence. The U.S. elected its first Black president…. More information, more awareness, activism, protests, challenging the lobbyists and laws, films, books and blogs, social media projects… enlightening us to systemic, internalized racism and other discriminations of ignorance which continues to fuel human division and profiteering warfare.

Of course this is going to feel terrifying for minds programmed to resist uprisings to the system. Suppressed people standing up for themselves really freaks people out because they’re not supposed to do that. They’re supposed to suffer quietly and obey The Man. When they don’t, they’re perceived as a threat. It appears as though they’re creating the conflict that has always been there. So that’s why we currently see something like a “race war” although I’d say that’s a misnomer.

About being politically correct, people seem to hide behind this phrase when they want to express their bigotry without being called out on it. Yes, it’s hard to be sensitive to people with different experiences than ours. Yes, it takes work to change the way we speak and be careful and genuine with our words and language. It’s not easy to give up our cultural appropriation and privileged platforms to the voiceless to express their experiences…. But if we really wanted unity, wouldn’t we naturally end hostile and legal discrimination which divides us, and support people in their struggle for liberation? How can we expect to end our own enslavement while others suffer under theirs? That seems like a no-brainer to me.

I’m wondering how anyone can watch Black executions caught on at-risk bystander videos (which prove police routinely plant guns and drugs on their victims) and not feel a strong inclination to do something/anything about the legalized injustice.

Black Lives Matter has made a tremendous amount of progress especially considering they’re targeted by Homeland Security with surveillance ops, at least partly blacklisted on media and undergo a daily influx of hate mail. They’re partly why protests and police brutality make any news at all. They’ve laid out a clear and detailed vision for their movement, as well a map to get there. They take on various issues such as access to clean water, failing schools and the exploitation of Black labor.

White guilt. Unresolved guilt makes us do all kinds of whacky things such as believe we live in a post-racial society, claim “reverse racism” or think that people being torn from their families and homeland to become plantation slaves “wasn’t that bad.” If it wasn’t that bad, why did they risk and lose their lives escaping to the North or defecting to Britain - the subject of the racist U.S. national anthem?

We’ll believe anything to distract us from the very painful reality that horrible things are happening to certain groups of people and the fact we contribute to it just by existing in this society because it’s inherent to it. We also seek out “evidence” to affirm internalized fear and guilt. I’ve been trying to deprogram from racism for years and still catch myself thinking racist thoughts.

I don’t think it’s beneficial to criticize racists, white supremacists or the person who has no idea how racist they really are. Nor is it helpful to preach peace and unity when peace and unity ignores and therefore continues the oppression of POC’s. But it is important and I think helpful to bring information, stats, and awareness to the issue.

Oh and by the way, hi everybody! I’m Elizabeth. I’m new to the forum. I have a feeling I’m going to lose friends with this post before I have a chance to make any! But I’m grateful that people are willing to talk about this subject. I think it’s more important than most of us realize and maybe even a hill worth dying on.

[Mike]

Hi Elizabeth! Great post!:)

You said everything I was clumsily trying to say, only 100 times better. Thank you for that.

And welcome to the forum! Pleased to have you here!

[Spellbound]

The US is fibar'd.

Dave - Toronto

Hi Dave,

What the hell does that mean?;)

And more importantly, what are you looking at in that picture?

My take on the US is that there is a lot of racial tension...there is a lot of gun violence....there seems to be a constant power struggle of one form or another...and it's just F*cked Up Beyond All Recognition (or Repair...take you're pick). The US may be a so called free country in the so called western world....but I'm so happy to be Canadian. Apologies if that offends anyone...but I look at stuff like this here in Charlotte (and the other recent events)...and I just shake my head.

As for the picture, that was taken by the shore of Lake Ontario (a buddy and I had just enjoyed a vape session).

Dave - Toronto

[Calz]

Apologies if that offends anyone...but I look at stuff like this here in Charlotte (and the other recent events)...and I just shake my head.




Seems like a little money goes a long ways.

Social engineering 101.

Don't lose sight on what is really going on.

[Billy Vasiliadis]

Oh and by the way, hi everybody! I’m Elizabeth. I’m new to the forum. I have a feeling I’m going to lose friends with this post before I have a chance to make any! But I’m grateful that people are willing to talk about this subject. I think it’s more important than most of us realize and maybe even a hill worth dying on.

First of all, welcome to the forum Elizabeth, it is a pleasure to have you here. Second of all, your post was fantastic and applaud worthy. You just cut through all the BS like butter and went straight to the heart of the issue, and for that I thank you.

I have been trying to de-program myself from not just racism, but a whole host of prejudices. It is SO daunting and often feels like an impossible undertaking. A lot of it seems so deeply entrenched, not just socially, but biologically, that I often ask myself whether fruit can be borne from trying to undo these things. I seem to oscillate between that and attempting to "seek out “evidence” to affirm internalized fear and guilt". It's like, why can't I just accept that I have ideas and beliefs which prevent me from seeing the full humanity of other people, and then go from there. I instead try to justify these beliefs through all sorts of ways. The first step is acknowledgement, although it is often the hardest.

I acknowledge the fact that I have prejudicial views towards others based on things like race, appearance, gender, ethnicity, ability and probably a whole host of other things as well. Not my proudest moment.

If you don't mind me asking Elizabeth, what kind of things have you done to help in deprogramming yourself?

[T Smith]

Hi Elizabeth, welcome to the forum. Your post is very thoughtful and thought provoking.


While we’re all being played with behind-the-scenes “divide and conquer” tactics, what exactly is dividing and conquering us?



It's really very simple. Who is conquering us? Social engineers erecting a fascist neo-feudalism-sociopolitical global order, which includes a eugenics agenda and a multitude of social programs designed to dumb down, impoverish, and equalize the masses (regardless of color) and render them manageable and subservient on a macro scale. This is a program of equalized slavery. And one very easy to sell to a social order structured by stratified classes and a tarnished history of racial inequality.




But I’m talking about system discriminations which permeate public education curriculum, mainstream media, wage gaps, laws, law enforcements, judicial systems, etc. (This is why racism tends to hide behind nationalism or patriotism.)



Can you elaborate? There is a meme (mostly instilled synthetically by social engineers I think) that tends to equate nationalism and patriotism with racism. Is this really true? Or just a conveniently conditioned belief? If it is the latter, it is certainly motivated by a very simple and obvious formula: 1. aggravate/ stir-up racial divisions, 2. attribute said divisions and bigotry to the national values, and 3. disavow the (backward) national values in favor of (more enlightened) aforementioned neo-feudalism global fascist sociopolitical order.

Sorry, unless you can convince me otherwise, I'm not takin' the bait...





Are there more Black people in prison because they’re criminals? Or because they’re more likely to live in poverty, be turned down for work and get paid less? Or because ghettos are deliberately infiltrated with drug trade while Blacks are imprisoned for years for smoking weed or stealing a backpack? Are they racially profiled and targeted to meet police quotas? Even police members have revealed that their pressure to perform causes them to go after the most vulnerable, and they’re rewarded for it. Black slavery never ended; it was only rerouted to the prison system.



This is all quite true. But I would submit it's true probably not in the way you think it's true. It's true because it was engineered this way. Yes, there is systemic unconsciousness, but not necessarily systemic racism. There is, however, very specific racism (directed at all we human plebs en masse, really), applied by social engineering programs (see Margaret Sanger et. al), which has propagated the racial tensions and social conditions you describe, and which has resulted in moving the plantations of the deep south to the inner cities.




I think racism has always been there, but it was buried, not just under a KKK mask but within our own belief systems that says people of color (or people who are “different”) are dangerous. But the buried issues are now surfacing. Followers of Donald Trump for example, feel more bold in expressing how they’ve always felt which comes across as hate, but I think is ultimately fear. It’s almost a trend but certainly a relief to be able to ramble off racist remarks that haven’t seen the light of day because it was a faux pas to do so.



Yes, it is and likely always will be there as long as we are humans... but more aptly called tribalism. Racism is a contrived concept. As humans, we are one race of many tribes and colors.




About being politically correct, people seem to hide behind this phrase when they want to express their bigotry without being called out on it. Yes, it’s hard to be sensitive to people with different experiences than ours. Yes, it takes work to change the way we speak and be careful and genuine with our words and language. It’s not easy to give up our cultural appropriation and privileged platforms to the voiceless to express their experiences…. But if we really wanted unity, wouldn’t we naturally end hostile and legal discrimination which divides us, and support people in their struggle for liberation? How can we expect to end our own enslavement while others suffer under theirs? That seems like a no-brainer to me.



If we want to end our enslavement we need to recognize what is happening to us -- to all of us -- and what is being done to all of us. We are being played, and we are talking past each other. Tower of Babel, indeed.




White guilt. Unresolved guilt makes us do all kinds of whacky things such as believe we live in a post-racial society, claim “reverse racism” or think that people being torn from their families and homeland to become plantation slaves “wasn’t that bad.” If it wasn’t that bad, why did they risk and lose their lives escaping to the North or defecting to Britain - the subject of the racist U.S. national anthem?



I would ask you to try to look at this from a more broad and thought-provoking perspective. You have been taught the national anthem is racist, but I am suggesting (as my entire post implies) that you have been taught this for a specific reason. The truth is, at the height of the nation's tarnished history, only 8% of its population owned slaves in the United States. Is it fair to condemn the values of the entire country based on this 8% number? Isn't this kind of like throwing the baby out with the bath water? Slavery was also a global institution, existent everywhere on earth, when the United States was founded. My point is not to condone this 8%, nor suggest that the bath water shouldn't be changed, only to point out memes like this are being used to sell and dismantle national values (which so happen be founded on human freedom, and which likely precipitated the end of slavey as a legal institution) in place of (much more sinister) global values.

Food for thought... and welcome again to the forum!

[ThePythonicCow]

The US is fibar'd.

Dave - Toronto

Hi Dave,

What the hell does that mean?;)
My guess is that Dave misspelled fubar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FUBAR#FUBAR).

===

P.S. - ah - yes - now I catch up on my reading of this thread and see Dave's reply, above, in Post #57 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?93518-Charlotte-Riots...-NOT-protests....WTF-is-going-on-with-the-brewing-Race-war&p=1101195&viewfull=1#post1101195).

[Spellbound]

The US is fibar'd.

Dave - Toronto

Hi Dave,

What the hell does that mean?;)
My guess is that Dave misspelled fubar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FUBAR#FUBAR).

===

P.S. - ah - yes - now I catch up on my reading of this thread and see Dave's reply, above, in Post #57 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?93518-Charlotte-Riots...-NOT-protests....WTF-is-going-on-with-the-brewing-Race-war&p=1101195&viewfull=1#post1101195).

My bad, I was up late last night. Yes, I meant fubar'd.

Dave - Toronto

[Cidersomerset]

I'm just looking at Davids headline page and heres a couple articles
if already posted I apologise , I had a quick skim thru the thread
but did not notice them.....


Charlotte Riots Show Hallmarks Of George Soros Operation

By David on 24 September 2016 GMT The Police State

ACTIVIST POST....


Charlotte Riots Show Hallmarks Of George Soros Operation

TOPICS:Civil UnrestGeorge SorosJoe Jankowski.

September 23, 2016

http://www.activistpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/soros-charlotte.jpg

By Joseph Jankowski

‘Todd Walther, spokesman for the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Fraternal Order of Police told CNN’s
Erin Burnett that most of those arrested during the riots in Charlotte had out of state IDs
and were bused into the city.

“This is not Charlotte that’s out here,” Burnett said. “These are outside entities that are coming
in and causing these problems. These are not protesters, these are criminals.”

“We’ve got the instigators that are coming in from the outside. They were coming in on buses
from out of state. If you go back and look at some of the arrests that were made last night.
I can about say probably 70% of those had out-of-state IDs. They’re not coming from
Charlotte,” he continued.

This draws parallels with the Ferguson riots in late 2014 which were bankrolled by billionaire George Soros.’

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cT67glzFDIs

Read more: Charlotte Riots Show Hallmarks Of George Soros Operation

http://www.activistpost.com/2016/09/charlotte-riots-show-hallmarks-george-soros-operation.html


===========================================================

Keith Scott’s Wife Releases Shocking Footage of His Shooting Death to NBC

By David on 24 September 2016 GMT

Wife of Keith Scott releases video of police shooting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBnUAb0lXjM

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/keith-scotts-wife-releases-shooting-footage-nbc

============================================================


RAW: Keith Lamont Scott shooting video released by family

333KFUBXxmo

Published on 23 Sep 2016
Keith Scott's family has released a video of officers from the Charlotte-Mecklenburg
Police Department fatally shooting, recorded by Scott’s wife. Video courtesy of the
Curry Law Firm.

====================================================

I was listening to Jim Marrs on Fade 2 Black from a couple days ago and he
has said many times violent crime is less than other eras in the US .It is only
highlighted on all types of media better. In this YT discussion below they ref in
past how cops did worse and often would plant a spare gun on a victim if they
had shot first asked questions later whether out of fear for their own safety or
a panic or even deliberate shooting. They discuss how the police departments
story is not adding up....


Charlotte Victim's Wife Posts Her Phone Footage (VIDEO)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT8CEcL9wSE

[TargeT]

But I’m talking about system discriminations which permeate public education curriculum, mainstream media, wage gaps, laws, law enforcements, judicial systems, etc. (This is why racism tends to hide behind nationalism or patriotism.)



Can you elaborate? There is a meme (mostly instilled synthetically by social engineers I think) that tends to equate nationalism and patriotism with racism. Is this really true? Or just a conveniently conditioned belief? If it is the latter, it is certainly motivated by a very simple and obvious formula: 1. aggravate/ stir-up racial divisions, 2. attribute said divisions and bigotry to the national values, and 3. disavow the (backward) national values in favor of (more enlightened) aforementioned neo-feudalism global fascist sociopolitical order.

Sorry, unless you can convince me otherwise, I'm not takin' the bait...

Int.Fish: Wage gaps? Laws? you listed a lot of things that should have clear examples, very easy to show to be true. Can you list some of that?

I'm seeing a LOT of very common "talking points" right now, how much have you researched these things?

T Smith: I agree, this is much more complex than just the surface issue





Are there more Black people in prison because they’re criminals? Or because they’re more likely to live in poverty, be turned down for work and get paid less? Or because ghettos are deliberately infiltrated with drug trade while Blacks are imprisoned for years for smoking weed or stealing a backpack? Are they racially profiled and targeted to meet police quotas? Even police members have revealed that their pressure to perform causes them to go after the most vulnerable, and they’re rewarded for it. Black slavery never ended; it was only rerouted to the prison system.



This is all quite true. But I would submit it's true probably not in the way you think it's true. It's true because it was engineered this way. Yes, there is systemic unconsciousness, but not necessarily systemic racism. There is, however, very specific racism (directed at all we human plebs en masse, really), applied by social engineering programs (see Margaret Sanger et. al), which has propagated the racial tensions and social conditions you describe, and which has resulted in moving the plantations of the deep south to the inner cities.

Turned down for work and paid less? please show evidence of that... if it were easy to play women, or blacks, or anyone less than someone else, they WOULD INSTANTLY BE HIRED MORE... or are you saying that racism out weighs greed and big corporations wouldn't notice a "paid less" phenomenon and immediately begin hiring that group for increased profits.

I don't think any of those situations exist as you think they do Int.Fish except for maybe the profiling.. but guess what, Profiling is not really based on race, it's based on who commits the most crime, not some super secret race conspiracy among police (that includes black officers as well). They aren't profiling elderly black people are they?

It's young black men... the same ones that commit 52% of the murders in the US, young black men (and mostly it's black on black crime). I see no racism there at all, just an issue that needs to be dealt with (differently that we currently are).






I think racism has always been there, but it was buried, not just under a KKK mask but within our own belief systems that says people of color (or people who are “different”) are dangerous. But the buried issues are now surfacing. Followers of Donald Trump for example, feel more bold in expressing how they’ve always felt which comes across as hate, but I think is ultimately fear. It’s almost a trend but certainly a relief to be able to ramble off racist remarks that haven’t seen the light of day because it was a faux pas to do so.



Yes, it is and likely always will be there as long as we are humans... but more aptly called tribalism. Racism is a contrived concept. As humans, we are one race of many tribes and colors.

I think it was never racism, I think it was always tribalism; couldn't agree more with T Smith on this one.




About being politically correct, people seem to hide behind this phrase when they want to express their bigotry without being called out on it. Yes, it’s hard to be sensitive to people with different experiences than ours. Yes, it takes work to change the way we speak and be careful and genuine with our words and language. It’s not easy to give up our cultural appropriation and privileged platforms to the voiceless to express their experiences…. But if we really wanted unity, wouldn’t we naturally end hostile and legal discrimination which divides us, and support people in their struggle for liberation? How can we expect to end our own enslavement while others suffer under theirs? That seems like a no-brainer to me.



People hide racism behind being politically correct? WTF? people are FORCED to be politically correct by the RACIST (IMO) regressive leftist movement.... Political correctness was forced on people by overly sensitive social justice warriors, not used to hide racism... Seems like an upside down world you live in.

**** POLITICAL CORRECTNESS, it is a disease and it is harmful to society.

The only legal discrimination that exists right now is against white males... nearly every other group gets a "benefit" just for being who they are.

Hiring quota's don't aim for a certain amount of white people do they? What do you think that kind of law does to a persons self image & self confidence? I'd certainly take issue if I was hired just to reach a number... I think those type of NAACP laws are stealth racism against the very people who acted to get them in place.

You mention ALL these egregious wrongs yet never give one example Int.Fish, why is that?





White guilt. Unresolved guilt makes us do all kinds of whacky things such as believe we live in a post-racial society, claim “reverse racism” or think that people being torn from their families and homeland to become plantation slaves “wasn’t that bad.” If it wasn’t that bad, why did they risk and lose their lives escaping to the North or defecting to Britain - the subject of the racist U.S. national anthem?



I would ask you to try to look at this from a more broad and thought-provoking perspective. You have been taught the national anthem is racist, but I am suggesting (as my entire post implies) that you have been taught this for a specific reason. The truth is, at the height of the nation's tarnished history, only 8% of its population owned slaves in the United States. Is it fair to condemn the values of the entire country based on this 8% number? Isn't this kind of like throwing the baby out with the bath water? Slavery was also a global institution, existent everywhere on earth, when the United States was founded. My point is not to condone this 8%, nor suggest that the bath water shouldn't be changed, only to point out memes like this are being used to sell and dismantle national values (which so happen be founded on human freedom, and which likely precipitated the end of slavey as a legal institution) in place of (much more sinister) global values.

Food for thought... and welcome again to the forum!
Ahh I thought it wsa 6% of southerners, can you (you should IMO, always provide reference when numbers are used) provide a link to that 8%?

I've read 6% of southerners, which means only 1.4% of the total US population owned slaves (http://www.vice.com/read/hey-v12n5)...(yeah, that few).

I think white guilt is the space that you are functioning from when you "Believe" as you have shown you do. Find some facts to back up your assertions; and while you look try to do it objectively. Reality is quite a bit different I think you'll find (I did). You are feeling as you do because it is highly desired, someone wanted you to feel the way you do and you have been manipulated into that position in subtle ways.


ALL of this is a multi-goal distraction...


RIGHT NOW the US is very likely under investigation from the UN for our actions in Syria and the middle east.

Doesn't it seem convenient that the news is covering something else and not that? To me it seems like a very obvious situation; but I guess if your a racism believer you'll think the much more important one is the fabricated issue?
3C0kDDK_bR8

[T Smith]

Ahh I thought it wsa 6% of southerners, can you (you should IMO, always provide reference when numbers are used) provide a link to that 8%?

I've read 6% of southerners, which means only 1.4% of the total US population owned slaves (http://www.vice.com/read/hey-v12n5)...(yeah, that few).



The statistic was taken from the 1860 census (http://www.civil-war.net/pages/1860_census.html). And actually it's 8% of families who owned slaves; you are right. The number of slaveholders only numbered approximately 1.25% of the population (according to the census).

[Innocent Warrior]

TargeT wrote -

"white dominated world" is just playing into what they are "selling" it has ALWAYS been about money & power; never about race.

Thank you! It’s a cultural problem and it’s a class problem and racism is nothing more than cultural programming and it shifts the focus away from the real problem.

Why doesn’t anybody talk about the racism against white people?

I grew up poor in a housing commission area with a lot of aborigines. My childhood was hell and that was a part of what made my life hell, because I am white.

If I was walking down the street and an aborigine was coming my way on the same side of the street, I’d cross the road. If I dared to stay on the same side I would pay for it when our paths met, I’d be bashed. If I dared to look at them I’d be bashed.

If I was in the park and they walked in, I knew to leave immediately, it was their park and if I didn’t leave I’d get bashed. I hated it when both my sister and I were in the park and they came in because my sister is stupid and stubborn. There would be at least a half a dozen of them, big kids and adults mind you and we were little girls, they’d see us in the park and they’d come to kick us out, they didn’t even want the park, they just didn’t want us in it. I’d see them coming, I’d alert my sister and tell her we have to go but she resisted and thought it wasn’t fair and refused to leave. Of course it wasn’t fair, but six (at least, on a good day) people with backup against two girls was not a fight we could win. My sister always refused to leave and I’d be be forced into a fight against a gang of aborigines. To their credit, they observed that I was trying to obey their rules but couldn’t leave my sister, so after a little while a couple of them would just hold me back while the rest of them bashed my sister. I had to watch them bash my sister, so the next stage was when I saw them coming into the park I’d just tell my sister and start walking. My sister still refused to leave but I knew how it would end, so I just left her there, knowing she was getting bashed as I walked away, I didn’t even look back. Does anyone here have any idea what that feels like? I was her big sister and I left her, I had to, I couldn’t’ take any more than I already was dealing with and she was being stupid.

Another one of their favourite moves was to send out a child with a big stick to whip me with as I walked past. If I dared even to tell the child to stop they’d threaten to bash me, so I’d have to just take it, this boy whipping me with a huge stick over and over again as I walked past and I could hear them all laughing from inside their houses at me.

I’ve had bottles thrown at me, been beaten, harassed, tormented and I can’t even write the names they would call us, they’re too horrible.

I was a little girl, we were just little girls and they were all ages, it didn’t matter, it was open season on us white you know whats and there was nothing we could do about it. We never even considered telling the police, they knew where we lived and our parents didn’t care about us, we had no protection but ourselves.

I could go on but I won’t, thinking about it still hurts and race debates make me angry. It’s a trap, does anyone really believe it matters what we fight about? The race card is an easy divider though. Too easy. And I know my place yeah, I’ve gotta keep my white privileged mouth shut and feel guilty for what has happened in the past.

I lived in that neighbourhood until I was fifteen years old.

Call me racist because I have feared them, because they taught me to, they beat the fear of them into me, they wanted me to be afraid, but this is my truth, to hell with what anyone thinks about what I’ve written on this. It’s all a game to the NWO boys cub and they’re laughing their arses off at us.

[Intuitive Fish]

Vasili, thank you so much for asking this question. To be honest, I was going to share this subject anyway even if no one asked, just in case any lurkers wanted to know. Here’s what I’ve learned so far:


Understand what racism is and be aware of social programming (which you do and are, but I’m putting this out there for anyone/everyone.) Here are a few racist statements from this thread:

“I’m overly cautious around black people with what I say and do.” This statement assumes all Black people (people with a certain skin color) are dangerous at some level to some degree.

“In Canada we do not have , sorry, ghettos. And we don't have inner-city gangs. It is these that allow hate to spread.” Ghettos specifically belong to Black people because of enforced poverty. This statement blanket assumes all Black people are or are associated with gangs and spreading hate.

“Of course, they have plenty of intra-community violence.” This statement assumes all people with black colored skin are violent.

“I’ve never been a racist but…” Anytime you hear this phrase you know a racist statement is coming! Aaaaand… here it is: “lately I have been getting very pissed off at the attempts by so many blacks to blame whites for many of the circumstances in their lives.” This statement blames Black people for the racism they’re oppressed with, from people who identify as white. (This quote is a case in point.)

“I still don't judge a person by their race but…” Oh no, not again! Here it comes…. “I certainly have become more and more upset with how many blacks seem to be so easily falling into the trap that has been laid for them.” Black-shaming, blaming, hating.

“We focus on Syrian refugees and not the civil war causing the refugee crisis.” This is a more subtle form of racism and likely unintentional but also common. It assumes that a war (or any event) takes precedence over the people that war/event affects. It also blames Syrian people for Western war profiteering and military occupation in foreign lands.... A non-racist way to say the same thing might be: “The best way to help Syrian refugees (the people losing their safety, land and their homes) is to put an end to war profiteering, war propaganda and aggressive military foreign policies.”

“Why doesn’t anybody talk about the racism against white people?” This is called "reverse racism." Reverse racism doesn’t and can’t exist because racism is one group exerting social, political and economic power over another group. The powerless group can’t exert power over the dominant group because the dominant group collectively possesses the majority of power. Look at the majority of people in power. They aren't Black, Hispanic, Syrian, Yemeni, Indigenous, etc. They're predominantly white or light skinned.... The darker the skin, the greater the oppression, generally speaking.

The above statement also attempts to justify discrimination toward POC’s based on a white person's experience, elevating a white person’s experience above POC's. Why do you think people of color distrust and react non-desirably to people who identify as white? Would you also blame Jews for fearing and hating Nazis? Not that these reactions resolve the issue, but the issue isn’t that people of color are horrible people (which is racism.) The issue is that racism creates division and conflict on multiple levels. The problem isn’t Black people. The problem is racist institutional powers that oppress Black people. Discrimination against POC’s occur at a systemic level. Not to disregard your personal traumas, Innocent Warrior, because those are important too, but as far as this topic is concerned, racism is an officially sanctioned reality hiding behind the scenes which keeps you hostile toward races without institutional power. You’re targeting the wrong group of people - powerless people who have been suppressed and violently oppressed since the dawn of white colonialism.


So, when you know common racist themes such as the ones I pointed out, it’s easier to catch them when they pop up in our thoughts.


When you catch them, you can correct the statement with a personal truth you genuinely believe. You might have to do this a lot!

Guilt and shame are pointless. Simply understand that racism is an institutional construct, stop doing the harmful thing (as much as possible), commit to listening and learning and find genuine ways to support POC’s.



Here are some other things to know that I’ve learned from POC’s:


Learn about their general histories (you might have to dig through underground info), their cultures, their slang and language, etc. This helps to understand their experiences.

Don’t steal their cultures. Whitewashing appropriation not only destroys their culture but “white people” are praised for doing/wearing many things POC’s are harassed, assaulted and killed for.

Be careful not to expect POC’s to speak “white English” because many don’t have an equal educational opportunity. Respect the way they speak even if it’s considered “broken” English or bad grammar.

Don’t fetishize them or their cultures.

Don’t use “not all white people…” to dismiss and erase the fact that all POC’s experience racism.

When they share their stories, don’t derail the topic onto a different oppression and be careful not to insert yourself into the story as if entitled.

Understand that POC’s are usually dealing with more than one kind of oppression such as involuntary poverty, classism, sexism, genderism, etc. Sometimes people focus on one and ignore the others, but all oppressions intersect.

Not all POC’s agree with each other and that’s okay. You are only responsible for **you** and your views and actions.

Don’t get your news about the Black, Muslim, Native Peoples... struggle from news networks, including alt media. Most media outlets are dominated by white people. Just look at highly influential late night TV shows… almost all are hosted by white males who claim to be "progressive." News outlets have a conflict of interest and either have to play it safe to maintain “integrity” and funding, or they have to wait for an “official statement.” I actually get my news from Twitter. Sure, it has its share of false info, but it’s the only way to get reporting from multiple sources with video footage and evidence from everyday people who are at the scene (as well as long Twitter threads meticulously scrutinizing said evidence) It’s also the only way to get the story in the first place as news outlets leave them out unless there’s a popular protest.


When you get to know people of color, their beliefs, struggles, etc, you’ll inevitably want to support them in their liberation (unless you don’t have a soul.) If you’re not a POC, here are some things to know when supporting them. I've learned a lot of these the hard way and am still learning:


Watch out for “white savior complex.”

Know that a “white” voice holds more weight and credibility than POC’s and can therefore easily hijack their narrative.

Share their own unedited words crediting them before assuming to speak for them.

Don’t expect them to educate anyone - this creates an extra burden for them on top of the burdens they’re already dealing with, plus they may not feel comfortable speaking about their experiences as there is always a backlash and repercussions in doing so; we should’ve already done our own research anyway.

Don’t say, “I don’t see color.” It’s important to acknowledge they’re a unique race, and so are their experiences.

Don’t equate your tough times with their tough times. They have unique and greater struggles within the system matrix.

Know that you’re going to mess up. Unintentional slips will slip. Simply admit the mistake, make any reparations if possible and welcomed, and move on.

Don’t use their friendship to alleviate guilt or as a token friend. Just be their friend (if consensual.) Don’t we all just want authentic friends?

There’s a lot I’m missing but this is already risking a tl;dr. But now that I think about it, this is good info for any relationship and can probably be filed under Common Sense or Basic Human Respect.


¤=[Post Update]=¤

I have a feeling a didn't respond in the right place and in the right way. Apologies!

[Innocent Warrior]

“Why doesn’t anybody talk about the racism against white people?” This is called "reverse racism." Reverse racism doesn’t and can’t exist because racism is one group exerting social, political and economic power over another group. The powerless group can’t exert power over the dominant group because the dominant group collectively possesses the majority of power. Look at the majority of people in power. They aren't Black, Hispanic, Syrian, Yemeni, Indigenous, etc. They're predominantly white or light skinned.... The darker the skin, the greater the oppression, generally speaking.

You're seeing what you want to and not what I wrote, they were the dominant group.

[Atlas]

Don’t say, “I don’t see color.” It’s important to acknowledge they’re a unique race, and so are their experiences.
Thank you Intuitive Fish, I agree with your post. Yet, I'm still unable to see any difference in color, human beings are only one race, different genetic makeups are sub-races of the same species.

I met a South African lady one day who told me: "I don't need to go to Africa to see monkeys, there are plenty of them at the local zoo already"...

...and she looked something like this:
http://cdn.quotesgram.com/small/1/25/251675026-obese-woman-very-fat.jpg

I didn't say anything but my first thought was: "I don't need to go anywhere to see a pig, here's one sitting just in front of me" :p

What I'm trying to say is that there are no races, religions or nationalities, there's only the human species, belonging to the family of great apes.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/79/2a/03/792a0335ea8315103135fe3bd4758fec.jpg

[Intuitive Fish]

As a side note, I'm not even sure what the "white race" is? It doesn't seem to have or belong to a particular culture, language, land or other origins that can be defined or identified. Is it really a race?

The Census Bureau defines people from the Middle East and North Africa as "white" and also includes Caucasians. Also, some Asians are whiter than some Europeans. So the concept isn't based on skin tone.

Apparently, the concept of "white people" or "white race" came into use (in the way we use it today) in the late 17th century in connection with racialized slavery and European colonialism. If so, this seems to imply racism is inherent to the "white race" identifier.

[Intuitive Fish]

Don’t say, “I don’t see color.” It’s important to acknowledge they’re a unique race, and so are their experiences.
Thank you Intuitive Fish, I agree with your post. Yet, I'm still unable to see any difference in color, human beings are only one race, different genetic makeup are sub-races of the same species.

I met a South African lady one day who told me: "I don't need to go to Africa to see monkeys, there are plenty of them at the local zoo already"

...and she looked something like this:
http://cdn.quotesgram.com/small/1/25/251675026-obese-woman-very-fat.jpg

I didn't say anything but my first thought was: "I don't need to go anywhere to see a pig, here's one sitting just in front of me" :p

What I'm trying to say is that there are no races, religions or nationalities, there's only the human species, belonging to the family of great apes.

Hopefully I'm posting correctly. Someone please let me know if I'm not!

Atlas, yes, I understand your well-meaning intention and I think that's a legitimate perspective. But I'm not sure why you'd want to erase the diversity of races, religions and nationalities? Would you also eliminate the different kinds of plant life and fish in the sea?

To me, rich diverse cultures, languages, customs, religions and races... make up the beauty of existence on this planet and in this universe. We can equally respect each one while acknowledging their differences.

In fact, I have a motto that says unity means nothing if it doesn't include diversity. Otherwise, it's just communism. <--- If I could find the laughing smiley with the tears, I'd put it here.

I'll ignore your fat-shaming comment since that's a whole different topic. : )

[Intuitive Fish]

“Why doesn’t anybody talk about the racism against white people?” This is called "reverse racism." Reverse racism doesn’t and can’t exist because racism is one group exerting social, political and economic power over another group. The powerless group can’t exert power over the dominant group because the dominant group collectively possesses the majority of power. Look at the majority of people in power. They aren't Black, Hispanic, Syrian, Yemeni, Indigenous, etc. They're predominantly white or light skinned.... The darker the skin, the greater the oppression, generally speaking.

You're seeing what you want to and not what I wrote, they were the dominant group.

The dominant group in your personal experience doesn't necessarily represent the institutional power over the planet.

You could be a white rabbit living in a neighborhood of black rabbits while white rabbits assume political power over the whole kingdom.

[stevcolx]

Race Wars, Shootings, Riots? These look like more suspicious False Flags. Just as well the US now has thousands of Foreign UN Troops stationed all over in US Bases. They have no qualms with shooting American Citizens. Added to that the hundreds of Armored Cars at their disposal too. I don't see these events as shootings and riots. I see them as a prelude to Martial Law and the disarmament of the American people!

[DNA]

“Why doesn’t anybody talk about the racism against white people?” This is called "reverse racism." Reverse racism doesn’t and can’t exist because racism is one group exerting social, political and economic power over another group. The powerless group can’t exert power over the dominant group because the dominant group collectively possesses the majority of power. Look at the majority of people in power. They aren't Black, Hispanic, Syrian, Yemeni, Indigenous, etc. They're predominantly white or light skinned.... The darker the skin, the greater the oppression, generally speaking.You're seeing what you want to and not what I wrote, they were the dominant group.


I've heard what you wrote. And it is my opinion that racism can exist in the microcosm as well as the macrocosm as such I feel your statement is completely valid.


Racism exists as an attitude within individuals, not just as a sociological references to determine what one large population has done to another large population of persons.

Innocent Warrior I know something about what you are talking about.
I've gone through a lot of similar experiences as a child.


In the end I know what happened to me is not the true fault of the perpetrators, more or less I've always known the blame rested with my parents for allowing me to be in harms way.


My experiences occurred in the seventies and early eighties, and race tensions were very high. Especially living in the impoverished areas that were basically deemed only suitable for those with black skin color. So you and I we were basically easy scape goats and targets for a lot of sociological black rage.


On the farm there is a term known as "ratting" a dog. You take a dog at the age you would consider him a large puppy, about six months. You then take the dog and place him in a cloth bag with a rat. The rat and dog will fight to the death, after which ussually the dog wins and after that this horrible situation the dog will forever hate rats, and will hunt and kill them on the farm when ever the opportunity presents itself.


Suffering the abuse you did, I'm sorry. I was in and out of black neighborhoods as a kid, I didn't live my whole childhood in one.
But when I reflect on the horrible things that happened to me and my little sister, I personally blame my mother who is not capable of understanding the reality of the situation for what it was. Regardless of how poor you are, there are always places you could have lived within the confines of your own race. To not understand the obvious sociological situation going on around you, this was a situation your parents and mine should have been able to steer us clear from. The analogy stands I think. It was like a mother rat knowingly moving her children under the porch of a ratted dog. And in this case do you really blame the dog? You as a child could not have fully understood the situation and I'm sorry these things happened to you, but your parents should have known. As should have mine.

[Innocent Warrior]

And in this case do you really blame the dog? You as a child could not have fully understood the situation and I'm sorry these things happened to you, but your parents should have known. As should have mine.

DNA, your post is so kind, thank you so much for that.

I hope it would have been stating the obvious to say I don’t blame those aborigines (other than where the fear came from), or that they’re not all racist and other things I feel I’m supposed to say to make that perfectly clear. I understand that by having white skin, with my experience, that that is assumed by me saying anything about it, by a lot of people, in my experience. I’m not assuming you thought that btw, DNA, but do want to take this opportunity to make that clear.

Nobody ever had to teach me not to be racist or not to believe all aborigines are, I learned from experience. My first boyfriend was aboriginal, nothing serious, just kid stuff. He sent me a letter and told me he thought I was cute and asked if we could hang out. We only got to hang out once though because the girls became really angry about it. They told me to stay away from him and threatened me. I think it was that night or soon after that I was walking home from the shop (yep, my parents used to send me to the shop at night) and a woman came out of her house to me and informed me she was walking me home. That’s all she said. Well the aborigines must have respected her. About every 20 metres a male aborigine stood (looked like older teens), waiting to bash me but each one just peeled off and walked away as we passed them. I was going to get beaten all the way home, so we never saw each other again.

My point wasn’t even that we should be talking about racism against white people (or people with white skin, whatever is pc these days), I was trying to say that racism is senseless and that the real issues aren’t about race. I’m convinced that if the real social issues were solved then racism would melt away as an effect.

Back to your analogy, DNA, this rat doesn’t blame the dog (I don’t even blame the mother rat). Their (aborigines) parents weren’t any better than ours, none of us got a fair start.

[Hervé]

Here is an interesting, very disgusting piece of suppressed history:


IRISH: THE FORGOTTEN WHITE SLAVES (http://settingrecordstraight.blogspot.fr/2015/03/irish-forgotten-white-slaves.html)

Monday, March 16, 2015



https://www.sott.net/image/s17/346448/large/irish_slaves.jpg


They came as slaves: human cargo transported on British ships bound for the Americas. They were shipped by the hundreds of thousands and included men, women, and even the youngest of children.

Whenever they rebelled or even disobeyed an order, they were punished in the harshest ways. Slave owners would hang their human property by their hands and set their hands or feet on fire as one form of punishment. Some were burned alive and had their heads placed on pikes in the marketplace as a warning to other captives.

We don’t really need to go through all of the gory details, do we? We know all too well the atrocities of the African slave trade.

But are we talking about African slavery? King James VI and Charles I also led a continued effort to enslave the Irish. Britain’s Oliver Cromwell furthered this practice of dehumanizing one’s next door neighbor.

The Irish slave trade began when James VI sold 30,000 Irish prisoners as slaves to the New World. His Proclamation of 1625 required Irish political prisoners be sent overseas and sold to English settlers in the West Indies.

By the mid 1600s, the Irish were the main slaves sold to Antigua and Montserrat. At that time, 70% of the total population of Montserrat were Irish slaves.

Ireland quickly became the biggest source of human livestock for English merchants. The majority of the early slaves to the New World were actually white.

From 1641 to 1652, over 500,000 Irish were killed by the English and another 300,000 were sold as slaves. Ireland’s population fell from about 1,500,000 to 600,000 in one single decade.

Families were ripped apart as the British did not allow Irish dads to take their wives and children with them across the Atlantic. This led to a helpless population of homeless women and children. Britain’s solution was to auction them off as well.

During the 1650s, over 100,000 Irish children between the ages of 10 and 14 were taken from their parents and sold as slaves in the West Indies, Virginia and New England. In this decade, 52,000 Irish (mostly women and children) were sold to Barbados and Virginia.

Another 30,000 Irish men and women were also transported and sold to the highest bidder. In 1656, Cromwell ordered that 2000 Irish children be taken to Jamaica and sold as slaves to English settlers.

Many people today will avoid calling the Irish slaves what they truly were: Slaves. They’ll come up with terms like “Indentured Servants” to describe what occurred to the Irish. However, in most cases from the 17th and 18th centuries, Irish slaves were nothing more than human cattle.

As an example, the African slave trade was just beginning during this same period. It is well recorded that African slaves, not tainted with the stain of the hated Catholic theology and more expensive to purchase, were often treated far better than their Irish counterparts.

African slaves were very expensive during the late 1600s (£50 Sterling). Irish slaves came cheap (no more than £5 Sterling). If a planter whipped, branded or beat an Irish slave to death, it was never a crime. A death was a monetary setback, but far cheaper than killing a more expensive African.

The English masters quickly began breeding the Irish women for both their own personal pleasure and for greater profit. Children of slaves were themselves slaves, which increased the size of the master’s free workforce.

Even if an Irish woman somehow obtained her freedom, her kids would remain slaves of her master. Thus, Irish mothers, even with this new found emancipation, would seldom abandon their children and would remain in servitude.

In time, the English thought of a better way to use these women to increase their market share: The settlers began to breed Irish women and girls (many as young as 12) with African men to produce slaves with a distinct complexion. These new “mulatto” slaves brought a higher price than Irish livestock and, likewise, enabled the settlers to save money rather than purchase new African slaves.

This practice of interbreeding Irish females with African men went on for several decades and was so widespread that, in 1681, legislation was passed “forbidding the practice of mating Irish slave women to African slave men for the purpose of producing slaves for sale.” In short, it was stopped only because it interfered with the profits of a large slave transport company.

England continued to ship tens of thousands of Irish slaves for more than a century. Records state that, after the 1798 Irish Rebellion, thousands of Irish slaves were sold to both America and Australia. There were horrible abuses of both African and Irish captives. One British ship even dumped 1,302 slaves into the Atlantic Ocean so that the crew would have plenty of food to eat.

There is little question the Irish experienced the horrors of slavery as much (if not more, in the 17th Century) as the Africans did. There is also little question that those brown, tanned faces you witness in your travels to the West Indies are very likely a combination of African and Irish ancestry.

In 1839, Britain finally decided on it’s own to end its participation in Satan’s highway to hell and stopped transporting slaves. While their decision did not stop pirates from doing what they desired, the new law slowly concluded this chapter of Irish misery.

But, if anyone, black or white, believes that slavery was only an African experience, then they’ve got it completely wrong. Irish slavery is a subject worth remembering, not erasing from our memories.

But, why is it so seldom discussed? Do the memories of hundreds of thousands of Irish victims not merit more than a mention from an unknown writer?

Or is their story to be the one that their English masters intended: To completely disappear as if it never happened.

None of the Irish victims ever made it back to their homeland to describe their ordeal. These are the lost slaves; the ones that time and biased history books conveniently forgot.

Interesting historical note: the last person killed at the Salem Witch Trials was Ann Glover (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Glover). She and her husband had been shipped to Barbados as a slave in the 1650's. Her husband was killed there for refusing to renounce catholicism.

In the 1680's she was working as a housekeeper in Salem. After some of the children she was caring for got sick she was accused of being a witch.

At the trial they demanded she say the Lord's Prayer. She did so, but in Gaelic, because she didn't know English. She was then hung.

To learn more you can go to the following sources:

Political Education Committee (PEC)
American Ireland Education Foundation
54 South Liberty Drive, Suite 401
Stony Point NY 10980


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Bibliography
Aubrey Gwynn, S.J., Documents relating to Irish in the West Indies -- Analecta Hibernica Page: 153 Note: 1

Edward O'Meagher Condon, The Irish Race in America, New York, A.E. and R.E. Ford, 1887 Page: 15 41 38,9 Note: 3 21 37

Arthur Percoval Newton, The European Nations in the West Indies 1493-1688, London, J. Dickens & Co, Reprint 1967 Page: 163 Note: 4

Richard S. Dunn, Sugar and Slaves, Chapel Hill, NC, U of NC Press, 1972 Page: 56, 122, 130 ? 133 160 Note: 5 13 24 25 Page: 327 ? 131 141 Note: 29 30 32 34

Maurice Lenihan, History of Limerick, Cork, Mercier, ? Page: 668,9 669 Note: 6 26

John P. Prendergast, The Cromwellian Settlement of Ireland, Dublin, ?, 1865 Note: 9 17

Sir William Petty, Political Anatomy of Ireland, London, ?, 1719 Page: 19 Note: 7

John Thurloe, Letter of Henry Cromwell, 4th Thurloe's State Papers, London, 1742
Note: 8

Thomas Addis Emmet, Ireland Under English Rule, NY & London, Putnam, 1903 Page: 101, vol I 101, vol I 211,2 Note: 12 19 28

Joseph J. Williams, Whence the "Black Irish" of Jamaica, NY, Dial, MCMXXXII Page: 17 17 Note: 10 11

Anthony Broudine, Propuguaculum, Pragae Anno, 1669 Note: 18

Dr. John Lingard, History of England, Edinburgh, ? ,1902 Page: 336, vol X Note: 20

Abbot E. Smith, Colonists in Bondage, 1607-1776, Glouster, Mass, Smith, 1965
Page: 164 165 334 209 336 Note: 2 16 23 27 36

C. S. S. Higham, The Development of the Leeward Islands Under the Restoration, 1660-1688, London, Cambridge, 1921 Page: 4 47 Note: 14 22

Richard Ligon, A True and Exact History of Barbadoes, London, Cass, 1657, reprinted 1976 Page: 44 Note: 31

Eric Williams, From Columbus to Castro, 1492-1969, New York, Harper and Roe, 1971 Page: 101 Note: 15

Wesley Frank Craven, The Colonies in Transition, 1660-1713, New York, Harper and Roe, 1968 Page: 55 58 Note: 33 35

===========================================

Of course, then, there is the origin of the word "slave (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/slave)" tied to the "Slavic People."

[Cidersomerset]

I'm watching this Cross talk episode and have posted it on WW111 and is very interesting
as usual and worth watching . But also Scott Bennett ties it into some of the recent disturbances
in the US and Canada , as we speculate all the time. There are also several shooting and
stabbing incidents and there are usually reports daily.....

https://www.davidicke.com/headlines

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Former Psyops Officer: Recent Domestic Terror Events Designed To Distract Attention Away From Syria

By David on 25 September 2016 GMT

https://www.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/chelsea-bombing.jpg

Scott Bennett, formerly of the U.S. Army 11th Psychological Operations Battalion, told RT the dumpster
bombing in New York, a pipe bomb explosion prior to a charity race in New Jersey for Marines and Navy
sailors, and a potential bomb threat resulting in the closing of 60 schools in the Canadian province of
Prince Edward Island were part of a psychological operation to draw attention away from an effort by
the US to step up the war in Syria.

Scrub to 12 minutes, 34 seconds on the video below to view Bennett’s claim.

PLVixaAgxVk

[Atlas]

[...] the dog will forever hate [...]
French had a similar technique:

At the end of the nineteenth century in Britanny, the sardine canneries were infested with rats. [...]

We had the idea of sewing a rat's ass with a big horsehair. Unable to normally reject the food, the rat, continuing to eat, became mad with grief and rage. It turned into a mini-beast, a real terror to his peers [...]

The worker who accepted to accomplish this dirty business got the favor of management, a salary increase and received a promotion as a forewoman.

Couseuse de cul de rat (http://revuedepresse.cafeduweb.com/lire/11858-les-pires-metiers-monde-branleurs-dindons.html): "A la fin du XIXème siècle, en Bretagne, les conserveries de sardines étaient infestées de rats. Personne ne savait comment se débarasser de ces petits animaux. Pas question d'introduire des chats, qui auraient préféré manger des sardines immobiles plutôt que des rongeurs fuyants. On eut l'idée de coudre le cul d'un rat vivant avec un gros crin de cheval. Dans l'impossibilité de rejeter normalement la nourriture, le rat, continuant à manger, devenait fou de douleur et de rage. Il se transformait en mini-fauve, véritable terreur pour ses congénères qu'il blessait et faisait fuir. L'ouvrière qui acceptait d'accomplir cette sale besogne obtenait les faveurs de la direction, une augmentation de salaire et recevait une promotion au titre de contremaîtresse. Mais pour les autres ouvrières de la sardinerie, la "couseuse de cul de rat" était une traîtresse. Car tant que l'une d'elles accepterait de coudre le cul des rats, cette répugnante pratique se perpétuerait."

:facepalm: insane..

[Cidersomerset]

Here is an interesting, very disgusting piece of suppressed history:
IRISH: THE FORGOTTEN WHITE SLAVES
Monday, March 16, 2015

Good point I was going to post yesterday about the Barbary Pirates and the slave
raids around the med and UK. Also around the same time of the Irish disaster , UK
citizens were also being sold into 'bondage' and the attempt after the death of
Charles the second , one of his 'bastard' son's James Duke of Monmouth tried to
seize the throne , against Charles 11 brother James 11. The result was the failure
of his claim at the Battle of Sedgemoor a couple miles from Bridgwater and many
citizens from the South west of England and elsewhere who got caught up in the
rebellion were either hung at the 'Bloody Assizes ' by the infamous Judge Jeffries,
and many were sold into bondage/slavery in the West Indies to man the
plantations. This was just before the African slave trade started in earnest
and when the call for abolishing the slave trade took off seriously in the 19th
century it was the MP for Bridgwater who was one of the first to petition for it to
end. Memories were still raw with what happened to family members 150 year
earlier...... I have got this in more detail in a thread somewhere...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Sedgemoor

http://www.bridgwatertowncouncil.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/btc-logo.jpg
http://www.bridgwatertowncouncil.gov.uk/history/bridgwater-and-slavery/

Of course various types of slavery still goes on today from all ethnic groups
Sex ,economic and more.....

Slavery Today

There are an estimated 20.9 Million people trapped in some form of slavery today.
It’s sometimes called “Modern-Day Slavery” and sometimes “Human Trafficking." At
all times it is slavery at its core.

read more....
http://www.endslaverynow.org/learn/slavery-today?gclid=CM7hl-rZqs8CFUaVGwod3BII1g

[Hervé]

[...]
Couseuse de cul de rat (http://revuedepresse.cafeduweb.com/lire/11858-les-pires-metiers-monde-branleurs-dindons.html): ...
[...]

:facepalm: insane..

:offtopic:

... or how to create a psychopath in just a few days... mental health and gut fauna and flora... there definitely is something to it!

:offtopic:

[AutumnW]

Let's be realistic about racism here. I read an article written by someone who worked in human resources for a large corporation. She said that all resumes sent in by people with names like, Latoya, shalalya, and other black sounding first names, as well as those with presidential last or first names, like Franklin, Roosevelt, etc.. were immediately trashed. THAT is institutional racism and THAT is almost impossible to prove.

[TargeT]

Let's be realistic about racism here. I read an article written by someone who worked in human resources for a large corporation. She said that all resumes sent in by people with names like, Latoya, shalalya, and other black sounding first names, as well as those with presidential last or first names, like Franklin, Roosevelt, etc.. were immediately trashed. THAT is institutional racism and THAT is almost impossible to prove.

That is highly illegal and I doubt it happens currently.

IN FACT, most HR departments of large corporations (I've worked for a few) use a mostly automated selection process & let department heads or hiring boards do the final selection. I don not believe this lady, nor what she told you.



Culture is the key.. not race. This is a very well done discussion on the topic.
TY1_UWMy83c

[DNA]

It is a culture thing Targe, but there are a lot of factors involved. You could say our very worth our self worth is often determined by our standing in society and if we are deemed a success or failure in that society we often agree with society's sentiment in this regard.
For instance a guy working a minimum wage job and barely making enough to eat for his family would often be considered a failure.
In the grand scheme of things this min wage guy has it far better than say a King of a middle ages European Kingdom or the Captain of a sea faring English Navy vessel from the 1600's in so far as living conditions, safety of self and family and food. But because of the internal agreement with society we often suffer internal hardship if deemed a failure by society.
This is why a counter culture exists.
When you have little to no chance of being a success in the greater more accepted culture at large, you create a new culture, with new rules for what a success is.
When you change the definition for success you are creating achievable goals and thus when you achieve these new goals you increase your status in the counter culture and thus your self worth.

[Innocent Warrior]

“Why doesn’t anybody talk about the racism against white people?” This is called "reverse racism." Reverse racism doesn’t and can’t exist because racism is one group exerting social, political and economic power over another group. The powerless group can’t exert power over the dominant group because the dominant group collectively possesses the majority of power. Look at the majority of people in power. They aren't Black, Hispanic, Syrian, Yemeni, Indigenous, etc. They're predominantly white or light skinned.... The darker the skin, the greater the oppression, generally speaking.

You're seeing what you want to and not what I wrote, they were the dominant group.

The dominant group in your personal experience doesn't necessarily represent the institutional power over the planet.

You could be a white rabbit living in a neighborhood of black rabbits while white rabbits assume political power over the whole kingdom.

So what is your point then? Are you saying people like me can't say there's any racism against white people because white people are oppressing dark skinned people on a global scale, or are you agreeing that the condescending point you made about my comment was completely invalid, because despite the larger scale there is most definately racism against white people?

[DNA]

“Why doesn’t anybody talk about the racism against white people?” This is called "reverse racism." Reverse racism doesn’t and can’t exist because racism is one group exerting social, political and economic power over another group. The powerless group can’t exert power over the dominant group because the dominant group collectively possesses the majority of power. Look at the majority of people in power. They aren't Black, Hispanic, Syrian, Yemeni, Indigenous, etc. They're predominantly white or light skinned.... The darker the skin, the greater the oppression, generally speaking.

You're seeing what you want to and not what I wrote, they were the dominant group.

The dominant group in your personal experience doesn't necessarily represent the institutional power over the planet.

You could be a white rabbit living in a neighborhood of black rabbits while white rabbits assume political power over the whole kingdom.


I think when someone is sharing something so personal and that has obviously affected them so much, we should take that individual sharing into account more so than push our own agenda.
I understand you are new here IF, but one of the reasons this forum is really special, is we care more about our fellow members and as such try to make being correct and or right take a back seat to what is really more important, and in this instance, it would be more important to validate someone's personal experience and allow them to share it than to argue over some trivial inconsequential such as the defining of a specific word the sharer used. In arguing over semantics you are really losing the important aspect of the post here, and that is someone is sharing their pain.

[Innocent Warrior]

DNA, if Intuitive Fish was correct then I wouldn’t mind at all, regardless of what I've gone through or how much pain I experience.

Not enough people are prepared to get their hands dirty. The dirty, messy truth of real life is too uncomfortable, too many prefer bombastic social engineering terms and programming, which is speeding us towards our own extinction, in the most horrific way.

I feel massive shame whenever I share anything personal like that but I did it anyway because I believe the truth of real life will give rise to empathy and compassion and turn this speeding train around. But you know what? It’s not worth it, there aren’t enough people like you in this world, DNA, and I’m done. I will never share anything personal again.

Intuitive Fish, never mind answering my questions to you, believe what you want, and...


And I know my place yeah, I’ve gotta keep my white privileged mouth shut and feel guilty for what has happened in the past.

thanks for proving my point.

[Intuitive Fish]

“Why doesn’t anybody talk about the racism against white people?” This is called "reverse racism." Reverse racism doesn’t and can’t exist because racism is one group exerting social, political and economic power over another group. The powerless group can’t exert power over the dominant group because the dominant group collectively possesses the majority of power. Look at the majority of people in power. They aren't Black, Hispanic, Syrian, Yemeni, Indigenous, etc. They're predominantly white or light skinned.... The darker the skin, the greater the oppression, generally speaking.

You're seeing what you want to and not what I wrote, they were the dominant group.

The dominant group in your personal experience doesn't necessarily represent the institutional power over the planet.

You could be a white rabbit living in a neighborhood of black rabbits while white rabbits assume political power over the whole kingdom.

So what is your point then? Are you saying people like me can't say there's any racism against white people because white people are oppressing dark skinned people on a global scale, or are you agreeing that the condescending point you made about my comment was completely invalid, because despite the larger scale there is most definately racism against white people?

I did not intend to be condescending and I'm sorry that I wasn't more clear about that since you shared your personal story, which I think is valid. Being treated wrongly is not right and it creates consequences and long-lasting traumas, affecting not only the rest of your life, but your relationships and therefore the world at large....

Explaining WHY that occurs and possibly occurred to you does not diminish your experience at all in my mind. My intention was to provide a bigger picture or more expansive perspective on why Black people might do the things they do. I'm watching their incredible plight, everyday struggles and excruciating tears while the majority of the world accuses POC's of being dangerous, violent, untrustworthy, lazy, ignorant, in gangs, on welfare, birthing too many kids, stealing jobs, criminals, terrorists, extremists, "3rd world," they need to go back to their own country and pay for the wall.... And it's just baffling how their narrative constantly gets silenced, erased or replaced with non-POC's experiences, thoughts and opinions.

So, yes. Everyone's experiences and thoughts are valid and everything affects our universal framework. But the Black community as a whole is and has been experiencing a crisis. There's a whole neighborhood of homes burning down but we're ignoring them and instead focusing on issues which only perpetuate more of those burning homes.

You're free to call out white racism if that's your view. My point was that, in my view, your experiences and others like them aren't a direct result of racism. They're a result of people lashing out in pain because they experience racism. So the problem isn't Black people. The problem is racism.

[Intuitive Fish]

“Why doesn’t anybody talk about the racism against white people?” This is called "reverse racism." Reverse racism doesn’t and can’t exist because racism is one group exerting social, political and economic power over another group. The powerless group can’t exert power over the dominant group because the dominant group collectively possesses the majority of power. Look at the majority of people in power. They aren't Black, Hispanic, Syrian, Yemeni, Indigenous, etc. They're predominantly white or light skinned.... The darker the skin, the greater the oppression, generally speaking.

You're seeing what you want to and not what I wrote, they were the dominant group.

The dominant group in your personal experience doesn't necessarily represent the institutional power over the planet.

You could be a white rabbit living in a neighborhood of black rabbits while white rabbits assume political power over the whole kingdom.


I think when someone is sharing something so personal and that has obviously affected them so much, we should take that individual sharing into account more so than push our own agenda.
I understand you are new here IF, but one of the reasons this forum is really special, is we care more about our fellow members and as such try to make being correct and or right take a back seat to what is really more important, and in this instance, it would be more important to validate someone's personal experience and allow them to share it than to argue over some trivial inconsequential such as the defining of a specific word the sharer used. In arguing over semantics you are really losing the important aspect of the post here, and that is someone is sharing their pain.

Noted.

I think I felt the need to defend the POC experience, which I trust is just as important as any forum member (if we can't respect all, how do we respect one?) but I can see how I came across as arguing semantics and I apologize for that.

[Intuitive Fish]

DNA, if Intuitive Fish was correct then I wouldn’t mind at all, regardless of what I've gone through or how much pain I experience.

Not enough people are prepared to get their hands dirty. The dirty, messy truth of real life is too uncomfortable, too many prefer bombastic social engineering terms and programming, which is speeding us towards our own extinction, in the most horrific way.

I feel massive shame whenever I share anything personal like that but I did it anyway because I believe the truth of real life will give rise to empathy and compassion and turn this speeding train around. But you know what? It’s not worth it, there aren’t enough people like you in this world, DNA, and I’m done. I will never share anything personal again.

Intuitive Fish, never mind answering my questions to you, believe what you want, and...


And I know my place yeah, I’ve gotta keep my white privileged mouth shut and feel guilty for what has happened in the past.

thanks for proving my point.

Innocent Warrior, I'm sorry, I replied to your last post before I read this one. I'd like to apologize again, if I may, for being insensitive to your sharing vulnerable and personal experiences. I was so looking forward to meeting new friends and possibly family in this forum and I didn't at all plan on jumping in right away to a controversial topic (controversial to this forum.) I think I'm trying to figure out if I can trust anyone here by noticing how people treat others who might be considered outsiders... or how I'm treated if I go out on a limb and voice my personal and vulnerable truths. Tbh, I was terrified and I'm still kinda waiting to get banned at any second! But your words are a good reminder that life is scary, relationships are complex, and stuff is beyond challenging and hard for everyone.... And at the end of the day, kindness, sensitivity and self-respect rule anything worth existing for.

[Intuitive Fish]

[QUOTE=Cidersomerset;1101266]I'm just looking at Davids headline page and heres a couple articles
if already posted I apologise , I had a quick skim thru the thread
but did not notice them.....


Charlotte Riots Show Hallmarks Of George Soros Operation

By David on 24 September 2016 GMT The Police State

ACTIVIST POST....


Charlotte Riots Show Hallmarks Of George Soros Operation

TOPICS:Civil UnrestGeorge SorosJoe Jankowski.

September 23, 2016

http://www.activistpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/soros-charlotte.jpg

By Joseph Jankowski

Cidersomerset, your post sparked some thoughts.

George Soros is a brilliant mastermind and an incredibly powerful human being. His brilliancy seems to lie in mixing truth and higher intelligence with outright, blatant evil.

Do you remember the last coup attempt in Turkey? They say Soros was behind that as well, and it makes sense. The people are incredibly suppressed under Erdogan's regime. Turkey is the last place I'd want to be. But what better way to justify the expansion of a dictatorship than to use the excuse of an attempted coup to execute members of your own military in cold blood, get rid of the majority of journalists and teachers and oppress your own people?

Maybe Soros is using the same playbook with Black uprisings. That doesn't mean the people attempting to climb out of an oppressive regime or institutional oppression are necessarily violent, wrong or at fault.... But that's exactly what they want us to believe.

Have you noticed what we've done to the word "terrorist"? It always seem to apply to POC's. If the terrorist is white, all of a sudden, he has a mental illness and needs to be rehabilitated.

They have an interest in fueling hate toward POC "rebels" so they can continue militarizing a police state. Few seem to notice that lately more and more funds are funneled into adding more police officers in U.S. cities, more "security" checkpoints, millions of dollars spent on riot gear.... All to protect us from the scary black people who are protesting because they can't even lay on the ground with their hands up in the air without getting shot by police.

[Innocent Warrior]

Innocent Warrior, I'm sorry, I replied to your last post before I read this one. I'd like to apologize again, if I may, for being insensitive to your sharing vulnerable and personal experiences. I was so looking forward to meeting new friends and possibly family in this forum and I didn't at all plan on jumping in right away to a controversial topic (controversial to this forum.) I think I'm trying to figure out if I can trust anyone here by noticing how people treat others who might be considered outsiders... or how I'm treated if I go out on a limb and voice my personal and vulnerable truths. Tbh, I was terrified and I'm still kinda waiting to get banned at any second! But your words are a good reminder that life is scary, relationships are complex, and stuff is beyond challenging and hard for everyone....

It's OK. :bearhug: I accept your apology but please don't at all feel bad about it. I don't want you or anyone to feel bad, I just didn't want to be dismissed. Don't worry about getting banned, you'll be fine and make friends and family here, I'm sure.


And at the end of the day, kindness, sensitivity and self-respect rule anything worth existing for.

Exactly, and to use DNA's analogy again, I'd like to see all the dogs and rats refuse to fight, figure out how to get out of the sack together and deal with the farmers.

[Flash]

You know what Intuitive Fish, you are showing here blatant discrimination not based on color of skin but based on size. This is in fact exactly the same, litterally racism.

I had an argument with Target on this. He was claiming that it is easy: eat less = lose weight, eat too much = gain weight. Very basic, transmitted to at least 2 generations right now. But false, as false as "black are lazy" or "white are always racists".

I was looking at a movie of a crowd of people assisting to a conference in the fifties and nobody was overweight, to my surprise. 20 years later, overweight people started to show up and now, 1/3 of children are overweight. There is certainly something else going on than "eat more = gain weight".

In fact, it is proven that children who had lots of antibiotics in childhood will have killed their guts bacteria and are often getting overweight later on. Also that pesticide kills good guts bacteria that are helping to control weight. And that hormonal disbalance creates more production of stomach hormones claiming hunger. And... that USA children are fed with growth hormone filled meat, milk and milk products (you get fat as an artificially fatten cow) and that ADHD could be blamed in parts on food colorant for which children will take stimulants (ritalin) and if not, self administer cafeine filled drinks.

And the list goes on and on and on.

And yes, these obese often by no fault of theirs are all ostracised, pushed away, laughed at, name it. Extremely harmful for self esteem.

And the comments you wrote here are a good example of it.

Division, division and again division, this time against the canary in the mine, namely the obese.

There is all kinds of racism.



Don’t say, “I don’t see color.” It’s important to acknowledge they’re a unique race, and so are their experiences.
Thank you Intuitive Fish, I agree with your post. Yet, I'm still unable to see any difference in color, human beings are only one race, different genetic makeups are sub-races of the same species.

I met a South African lady one day who told me: "I don't need to go to Africa to see monkeys, there are plenty of them at the local zoo already"...

...and she looked something like this:
http://cdn.quotesgram.com/small/1/25/251675026-obese-woman-very-fat.jpg

I didn't say anything but my first thought was: "I don't need to go anywhere to see a pig, here's one sitting just in front of me" :p

What I'm trying to say is that there are no races, religions or nationalities, there's only the human species, belonging to the family of great apes.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/79/2a/03/792a0335ea8315103135fe3bd4758fec.jpg

[AutumnW]

Let's be realistic about racism here. I read an article written by someone who worked in human resources for a large corporation. She said that all resumes sent in by people with names like, Latoya, shalalya, and other black sounding first names, as well as those with presidential last or first names, like Franklin, Roosevelt, etc.. were immediately trashed. THAT is institutional racism and THAT is almost impossible to prove.



That is highly illegal and I doubt it happens currently.

IN FACT, most HR departments of large corporations (I've worked for a few) use a mostly automated selection process & let department heads or hiring boards do the final selection. I don not believe this lady, nor what she told you.



Culture is the key.. not race. This is a very well done discussion on the topic.
TY1_UWMy83c

Hi Target,

I have to respectfully disagree here. I think it happens a lot. Any time illegal discrimination is impossible to prove, the stage is set for it. Where I live in Canada, one of the most crazily politically correct places on Earth (except when it comes to Aboriginal people. They are invisible) illegal discrimination against people with children is routinely practised by landlords.

And the standard response to a tenant with kids who has applied fruitlessly for months trying to find a place to live is, "landlords can't discriminate! It's illegal! You should sue!!" There is clearly discrimination taking place here, but try to prove it, particularly in a tight rental market. Same for good corporate jobs in U.S (now, even crappy corporate jobs, I figure) in spite of the phony stats, unemployment is a big problem, so employees can pick and choose based on their preferences and prejudices.

[AutumnW]

“Why doesn’t anybody talk about the racism against white people?” This is called "reverse racism." Reverse racism doesn’t and can’t exist because racism is one group exerting social, political and economic power over another group. The powerless group can’t exert power over the dominant group because the dominant group collectively possesses the majority of power. Look at the majority of people in power. They aren't Black, Hispanic, Syrian, Yemeni, Indigenous, etc. They're predominantly white or light skinned.... The darker the skin, the greater the oppression, generally speaking.

You're seeing what you want to and not what I wrote, they were the dominant group.

The dominant group in your personal experience doesn't necessarily represent the institutional power over the planet.

You could be a white rabbit living in a neighborhood of black rabbits while white rabbits assume political power over the whole kingdom.

So what is your point then? Are you saying people like me can't say there's any racism against white people because white people are oppressing dark skinned people on a global scale, or are you agreeing that the condescending point you made about my comment was completely invalid, because despite the larger scale there is most definately racism against white people?

Hey, whoa here. I would say "racism" is a word better suited to the dominant culture when it has power over a group or groups, either currently or in the past.

This is particularly true if the dominant culture has regarded the lower social, economic status group (even if it is historical) as no more deserving of respect than monkeys.

Indeed, the aboriginals and blacks in the U.S. were referred to frequently as monkeys. When a black man was suspected, often on false or weak pretences, of having an affair or raping a white woman, it totally grossed out American southerners, because they also considered it a form of bestiality imposed on their lily white women by another species.

Innocent Warrior, you were the innocent victim of generations of hostility, resentment and deep hatred, based on race. But as your race wasn't beaten down and considered inferior, I wouldn't call it racism, I would call it tragic blow back and you didn't deserve it.

When I made my original statement about minorities having to look inward and understand that there slave masters are long gone and MANY others, regardless of race, do NOT have a low opinion of them. Many white people have as much understanding as they can without being black themselves. This goes for aboriginal Australians, too, I am hoping.

[AutumnW]

Innocent Warrior,

I want to encapsulate my long winded post. I think that "racism" exists where there is an assumption of inferiority. Hatred and hostility exists towards the dominant culture by those who feel their race or group is designated as,'lesser than.'

Let me give you an example. Even though it might not be politically correct, I DO NOT like the mainland Chinese, who have spirited vast sums of money out of their country (often illegally) and laundered it through Canadian real estate.

I do not think they are intellectually, racially inferior. Canadians regard them as equal, in every way, in that regard, as we do other people from elsewhere. What I have for them is resentment.

What many of them have for Canadians is utter contempt and a feeling of superiority. They don't like being here, it was just the easiest place to launder their money, in the developed world, on the planet.

They are often racist AND class-ist. They reserve their purest contempt for the assimilated Hong Kong Chinese who immigrated decades ago.

[AutumnW]

Don’t say, “I don’t see color.” It’s important to acknowledge they’re a unique race, and so are their experiences.
Thank you Intuitive Fish, I agree with your post. Yet, I'm still unable to see any difference in color, human beings are only one race, different genetic makeup are sub-races of the same species.

I met a South African lady one day who told me: "I don't need to go to Africa to see monkeys, there are plenty of them at the local zoo already"

...and she looked something like this:
http://cdn.quotesgram.com/small/1/25/251675026-obese-woman-very-fat.jpg

I didn't say anything but my first thought was: "I don't need to go anywhere to see a pig, here's one sitting just in front of me" :p

What I'm trying to say is that there are no races, religions or nationalities, there's only the human species, belonging to the family of great apes.

Hopefully I'm posting correctly. Someone please let me know if I'm not!

Atlas, yes, I understand your well-meaning intention and I think that's a legitimate perspective. But I'm not sure why you'd want to erase the diversity of races, religions and nationalities? Would you also eliminate the different kinds of plant life and fish in the sea?

To me, rich diverse cultures, languages, customs, religions and races... make up the beauty of existence on this planet and in this universe. We can equally respect each one while acknowledging their differences.

In fact, I have a motto that says unity means nothing if it doesn't include diversity. Otherwise, it's just communism. <--- If I could find the laughing smiley with the tears, I'd put it here.

I'll ignore your fat-shaming comment since that's a whole different topic. : )

Please DO start a thread about fat. That would be interesting. People often don't understand it, but I totally appreciate the point Atlas is making. Sometimes fat IS just gluttony, which is a self indulgent lack of self discipline. It is ironic that someone fat for these reasons, and who might easily be able to change, EVER refer to whole racial groups, who can do nothing about their colour and little about their other life circumstances

[RunningDeer]

You know what Intuitive Fish, you are showing here blatant discrimination not based on color of skin but based on size. This is in fact exactly the same, litterally racism.

I had an argument with Target on this. He was claiming that it is easy: eat less = lose weight, eat too much = gain weight. Very basic, transmitted to at least 2 generations right now. But false, as false as "black are lazy" or "white are always racists".

Hi Flash,

I may have misread your post to Elizabeth, i.e., Intuitive Fish. I’m stepping in with a technical clarification (as I understand it).

Atlas' post #69 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?93518-Charlotte-Riots...-NOT-protests....WTF-is-going-on-with-the-brewing-Race-war&p=1101442&viewfull=1#post1101442) was the one with the graphics of the lady and the monkey riding the pig.

This was the partial response from Elizabeth:


I'll ignore your fat-shaming comment since that's a whole different topic. : )

While I'm here, welcome to Avalon, Elizabeth. :wave:


*****

UPDATE: FYI - AutumnW has created a thread called, The Fat Thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?93607-The-Fat-Thread&p=1101857&viewfull=1#post1101857)

[TargeT]

Milwaukee apparently had the same situation as Charlotte.
7D7dljmZ9KY

[ozmirage]

Most Americans are kept ignorant of American law - and that's a tragedy.
An example is the accusation of murder for policemen who shoot suspects.
It is difficult, if not impossible to prove premeditation in such shootings. As to the charge of manslaughter, it has to be unlawful. If the officer is attempting to arrest, and the suspect resists, that is a felony, and the officer can escalate accordingly.
- - - -

● MURDER : (Law) the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.
● MANSLAUGHTER : (Law) The unlawful killing of one human by another without express or implied intent to do injury.
● HOMICIDE : (Law) the killing of a human being by another person.
● RESISTING ARREST : (Law) physical efforts to oppose a lawful arrest; the resistance is classified as assault and battery upon the person of the police officer attempting to make the arrest.
● SELF DEFENSE : (Law) The right to protect oneself against violence or threatened violence with whatever force or means are reasonably necessary.
● AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE : An affirmative defense to a civil lawsuit or criminal charge is a fact or set of facts other than those alleged by the plaintiff or prosecutor which, if proven by the defendant, defeats or mitigates the legal consequences of the defendant's otherwise unlawful conduct. In criminal prosecutions, examples of affirmative defenses are self defense, insanity, and the statute of limitations.
. . .
FUGITIVE - Running away or fleeing, as from the law.
Fugitives are EXCEPTED from the protections of law.
. . .
It's not the initial crime that is the problem, it's the subsequent behavior.
Once he is resisting arrest, he is engaged in a FELONY. He is engaged in assault and battery of the police officer(s). Their response can escalate accordingly, which is an affirmative defense against any charge of murder, manslaughter or homicide.

[Flash]

I had not even seen the comment of Intuitive Fish. Thanks for bringing it up Running Deer.

Yes, I think I should have written "you are showing here The blatant discrimination people have or do against obese people, all based on size.

I meant that in our societies, obese people are being discriminated against and most people doing it do not even realise they are doing it - it is just automatic thinking, just as racist will have automatic thinking on race. when in fact race is independent of the people will to change as well as obesity often is.

And I did not mean Intuitive Fish himself showing discrimination, but people in general.

I am revising sometimes two or three times what I write in order to be understandable. I still miss on some revisions it seems. In the last year I have lived 100% in French, being French speaking, and my English writing has taken a hike. Sorry.




You know what Intuitive Fish, you are showing here blatant discrimination not based on color of skin but based on size. This is in fact exactly the same, litterally racism.

I had an argument with Target on this. He was claiming that it is easy: eat less = lose weight, eat too much = gain weight. Very basic, transmitted to at least 2 generations right now. But false, as false as "black are lazy" or "white are always racists".

Hi Flash,

I may have misread your post to Elizabeth, i.e., Intuitive Fish. I’m stepping in with a technical clarification (as I understand it).

Atlas' post #69 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?93518-Charlotte-Riots...-NOT-protests....WTF-is-going-on-with-the-brewing-Race-war&p=1101442&viewfull=1#post1101442) was the one with the graphics of the lady and the monkey riding the pig.

This was the partial response from Elizabeth:


I'll ignore your fat-shaming comment since that's a whole different topic. : )

While I'm here, welcome to Avalon, Elizabeth. :wave:


*****

UPDATE: FYI - AutumnW has created a thread called, The Fat Thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?93607-The-Fat-Thread&p=1101857&viewfull=1#post1101857)

[Innocent Warrior]

Hey, whoa here. I would say "racism" is a word better suited to the dominant culture when it has power over a group or groups, either currently or in the past.

This is particularly true if the dominant culture has regarded the lower social, economic status group (even if it is historical) as no more deserving of respect than monkeys.

Indeed, the aboriginals and blacks in the U.S. were referred to frequently as monkeys. When a black man was suspected, often on false or weak pretences, of having an affair or raping a white woman, it totally grossed out American southerners, because they also considered it a form of bestiality imposed on their lily white women by another species.

Innocent Warrior, you were the innocent victim of generations of hostility, resentment and deep hatred, based on race. But as your race wasn't beaten down and considered inferior, I wouldn't call it racism, I would call it tragic blow back and you didn't deserve it.

When I made my original statement about minorities having to look inward and understand that there slave masters are long gone and MANY others, regardless of race, do NOT have a low opinion of them. Many white people have as much understanding as they can without being black themselves. This goes for aboriginal Australians, too, I am hoping.

From the Oxford Dictionary Of Sociology (2009) -

"race: The placing of the term ‘race’ in inverted commas is now seen by some sociologists as a useful way of indicating that this manner of categorizing individuals and population groups is not based on any biologically valid distinctions between the genetic make-up of differently identified ‘races’. Racial categorization is frequently (though not always) based on phenotypical differences, that is, differences of facial characteristics, skin colour, and so forth. But these do not correlate with genotypical differences (differences in genetic makeup). Nor, reputable scientific opinion now agrees, are there innate differences of personality, intelligence, and so forth, between populations categorised on either of these bases. The sociology of race is largely concerned with examining the causes and consequences of the socially constructed division of social groups according to their so-called race, regardless of whether this is legitimated by reference to any of the above factors, or none of them (as, for example, in the case of anti-semitism)."

It goes on for another one and a half pages on the arguments about what is wrong with that definition as a social construct but I’m not typing all that out. The above is the crux of what we’re taught (mostly, depends on the prof. sometimes). Not even the definition of race is black and white or one clear line of understanding, sociology often goes something like this; “it’s this, but then this sociologist’s study says this about that, but then earlier studies show this” etc. Trust me, you don’t want to get into lexical semantics, we could be here forever doing that. For example, here’s another excerpt from the definition of race -

"Early Marxist theories (notably, O. C. Cox, Class, Caste and Race, 1948) proposed a far simpler connection between race and class, seeing racism as a ruling-class ideology which developed under capitalism in order to divide—and hence help control—Black and White workers who shared a common and fundamental class indentity…” :clapping:

I was going to type out the definition of racism, from both the sociology dictionary and psychology dictionary because, if you want to get into lexical semantics, what we’ve been discussing here is actually two terms; 'racism' and ‘racialism’. In summary, racialism is the unequal treatment of a population group based on social definitions of ‘race’, while racism is a belief system that sustains racialism. Denial of racialism breeds more racialism and, IMO, is racism. Enough said.

[Intuitive Fish]

And at the end of the day, kindness, sensitivity and self-respect rule anything worth existing for.

Exactly, and to use DNA's analogy again, I'd like to see all the dogs and rats refuse to fight, figure out how to get out of the sack together and deal with the farmers.

Innocent Warrior, thanks so much for your reply. I'll send you a pm. Excellent point about the farmers.

Flash, yeah I'm with you on all of that. Fat-shaming, ableism, racism, sexism, queer-phobia, classism.... These are my topics. Interestingly, they all intersect and are not isolated issues, which goes to show we all have a lot more in common than we're led to think. Because there's a good chance you're oppressed in some shape or form!

RunningDeer, thank you for making the correction on Flash's post and for the welcome to Avalon. That made me happy. :sun:

Back to Target's original post and the title of this thread... something to consider is that protests by nature, or at least effective ones, aren't intended to be comfortable for the socioeconomic system and the people who uphold it. In fact, protests are meant to be a disruption of the normal flow of things. They're supposed to be disturbing and attention-grabbing because this is the only way particular voices on a particular issue can be heard by the mainstream media-controlled public.

And I'm not just arguing semantics because labeling the Charlotte demonstrations as riots carries with it more of those aforementioned dangerous stereotypes which affirm the belief that Black people are violent thugs....

In reality, their protests have been predominantly peaceful by far, and plenty of white people are involved in them too. Anonymous does their part with Operation KKK, Asian activists for Blacks, BLM and social media protestors, independent journalists.... Everyone has a part to play. Yesterday I saw a video of Black activists trying to speak at the Charlotte protest. There was a ring of white people standing around them facing the crowd and protecting them from hecklers. It was beautiful. That could be us! <--haha, joke

Anyway, Black protestors have exhausted all other means of procuring change (decades ago) and if we're not listening to their pain and what they have to say, who can blame them for only getting louder? That's like blaming a sharp bodily pain signaling to let you know you've got a disease.

[Intuitive Fish]

A few more thoughts....

On using "victimization" as an excuse for racism. The idea that oppressed people shouldn't feel victimized is a cover for victim-blaming and justifying/ignoring the perpetrator. But victimhood is real. If you're killed in a drone strike, you're a victim. If you're extrajudicially executed by police, you're a victim. If you're a targeted individual, you're a victim/survivor. Victims are victims. The spiritual "Thou Shalt Not Be Victimized" mandate has never made sense to me. Maybe it's a psyops. It's probably sitting next to the Positivity Program.

About using the excuse of Black on Black crime to justify racism mentioned by several people in this thread (not to mention notorious U.S. presidential candidates), I think this quote by a Black activist explains the issue really well:

"White people need to embrace that a black officer shooting an unarmed black man isn't proof that there was no racial bias in the shooting. Some black people would gladly throw another black person under the bus if it meant they'd be viewed more favorably by the white man. That's part of living in a society that teaches you to hate yourself and your blackness. You have this constant need to prove that you are so unlike those other blacks. You're one of the good ones. Historically, people of color have oppressed each other in pursuit of some degree of superficial privilege. Hell, before then, even European immigrants attacked each other to gain favor with English 'settlers'." Kat Blaque

And... as Mike mentioned earlier in this thread, arguing numbers, race populations and stats is pointless. It's an illusion. It's not about numbers, it's about power. Just look at the 1% which has more power than the rest of the population combined. If there's any truth to that, it makes the amount of anything entirely irrelevant.

[Intuitive Fish]

One last thought.

Back to my theory about the "white race." There's the Nordic race, the Aryan race, Hebrew, Arab, Filipino, Asian, Native American, African.... What the hail is the white race? This is not computing for me. There doesn't seem to actually be a white race, except as a concept. A very powerful concept intended as a disguised vehicle to carry notions of separation, hierarchy, white power, white nationalism, white supremacy.... So powerful that every individual clamors to identify or associate with it in hopes of obtaining white privileges or at least survival.

But no one needs to identify as the "white race." You could be of pure German descent and still not identify as "a white person" and its inherent nature of division and superiority. You could simply be "German" or a mixed race if anyone felt the need for that identity....

White implies a hierarchy and therefore, we've got masters and we've got slaves. Any time you have slaves, you're going to get uprisings when they become miserable enough, because nobody likes being a slave. It's not the nature of our core self.

Basically people are hurting people, because as well we all know, people lash out when they're in pain, or when they're afraid of losing their privilege and means of survival. It's often a misplaced lashing out, so then we have a vicious cycle deceptively known as "race wars." But the point here is that "race wars" began with the arbitrary notion that the shade of a person's skin determines their value. Thanks to the "master race" or "white race" concept, we're all fighting with each other over... nothing. Which keeps the masses weak, divided and incapable of changing anything at the systemic level.

I used to think the white supremacist was the hyper macho guy flying a confederate flag from his massive truck with 5 rifles on his gun rack, an elk head on his front grate and a scrotum sack on his trailer hitch. But now I'm thinking white supremacy is just a segregating mental concept which permeates the minds of us all.... Maybe it's even an identity war, because identities strangely need to be preserved at all cost.

Either way, identifying people according to skin color seems completely absurd to me. Didn't Europeans and Asians descend from Africans anyway? Diversity is imperative and beautiful. But we're interconnected at the core. I suspect that's what Atlas was getting at.

[TargeT]

A few more thoughts....

On using "victimization" as an excuse for racism.

No one did that, they said there is no racism, because there isn't.

Please , again for like the 5th time on this thread.. PLEASE SHOW ME RACISM

I've shown it to you, I"ve shown you "kill whites" chants in CURRENT riots, I've shown you multiple groups attacking any white person they can find.

I've shown you such clear evidence of racism that I can't even believe you feel comfortable typing the word out and coming back with these nothing arguments (no substance, blame shifting, straw man, it's a plethora of logical fallacy).


The idea that oppressed people shouldn't feel victimized is a cover for victim-blaming and justifying/ignoring the perpetrator.

Please show me these oppressed people.. and I want color photographs, no drawings or black and white photos from decades ago.


But victimhood is real. If you're killed in a drone strike, you're a victim.

So what's your thought on lumping blacks in america in with Yemen citizens that we drone to death.. I think your being DAMN disrespectful to those Yemen folk.


If you're extrajudicially executed by police, you're a victim. If you're a targeted individual, you're a victim/survivor. Victims are victims. The spiritual "Thou Shalt Not Be Victimized" mandate has never made sense to me. Maybe it's a psyops. It's probably sitting next to the Positivity Program.

Yes, and the few times that happens it's horrible, like this:

If these shootings are racially motivated, was this kid not white enough? (http://nypost.com/2016/07/14/body-cam-video-shows-cop-fatally-shooting-unarmed-teen/)


About using the excuse of Black on Black crime to justify racism mentioned by several people in this thread (not to mention notorious U.S. presidential candidates), I think this quote by a Black activist explains the issue really well:

"White people need to embrace that a black officer shooting an unarmed black man isn't proof that there was no racial bias in the shooting. Some black people would gladly throw another black person under the bus if it meant they'd be viewed more favorably by the white man. That's part of living in a society that teaches you to hate yourself and your blackness. You have this constant need to prove that you are so unlike those other blacks. You're one of the good ones. Historically, people of color have oppressed each other in pursuit of some degree of superficial privilege. Hell, before then, even European immigrants attacked each other to gain favor with English 'settlers'." Kat Blaque

Or cops are out of control and never get punished for it.. oh and they kill twice as many whites.. so there goes that theory,

You are looking for racism under evrey stone, you'll find it, confirmation bias alone will do that.. I'm telling you it's not there, not like you think it is.



And... as Mike mentioned earlier in this thread, arguing numbers, race populations and stats is pointless. It's an illusion. It's not about numbers, it's about power. Just look at the 1% which has more power than the rest of the population combined. If there's any truth to that, it makes the amount of anything entirely irrelevant.

and your feeding right into that agenda, lets punish whites and ignore cops shooting everyone all the time, lets ignore the fact that most major police forces have military grade APC's , C4, Robots and drones.... Lets look at eachother through warped lenses and start blaming though, that's the answer...


I think not.

[shaberon]

I'm curious about the "bussing" report.

Charlotte is practically in South Carolina to begin with, it is not all that far from Georgia, and bus is the cheapest way to go.

So a statistic of "70% out of state IDs" is not surprising. Plenty of people that live here have those anyway (the law gives you 30 days to update, but that is routinely ignored). Is it only this statistic that implies that bus loads of people were sent by an external sponsor? Or can people independently decide "I want to join this thing" and catch a ride?

[Intuitive Fish]

A few more thoughts....

On using "victimization" as an excuse for racism.

No one did that, they said there is no racism, because there isn't.

Please , again for like the 5th time on this thread.. PLEASE SHOW ME RACISM


One of these days, I will have mastered posting member quotes. [ Mod-edit: I added the missing close [/QUOTE], above. -- Paul ] But for now, I am thoroughly confused. And I'm a web designer, haha.

Dear TargeT, I've only got so much time I can devote to Avalon each evening so I didn't want to waste it on a non-conversation. But I'm in a snarky mood so... Warning: patronizing snark ahead.

I'm not your tutor, pal. And it's not my job to prove or convince you of anything. That's your job. Thankfully for you, there's this learning place called the world wide web. You can start with a simple internet search and type in "systemic racism" or "structural racism" if you were actually interested. But if you can't see the everyday racism which is everywhere, and especially in the confines of your own mind of denial, even Glorious Google can't help you.

Are you saying that millions of protestors, activists, grassroots organizations, social media hashtags, news stories, the mass incarceration of Black people, the hundreds of Black mothers on the pavement crying because she just lost her son to an extrajudicial police killing are all for nothing? And that people are sacrificing their time and resources, enduring endless hostility (from lovely people like you, bless you all) and even risking their lives just because they like sitting around twiddling their thumbs? It doesn't get any more "logical fallacy" than that, bro.

Look up Darren Seals. (I know you're not actually going to do that. I said that for other viewers.) He was a Ferguson protestor who was recently found shot dead in a burning car. He was the 6th Black Ferguson activist/protestor to "mysteriously" die in a similar manner. But I'm sure all of those news stories aren't real. Maybe they exist in some distant, unknown galaxy in a 6 times removed parallel dimension, but I'm sure it couldn't be happening on YOUR shift and on YOUR planet. No, no, noooooo.... That would make you responsible. You'd have to challenge your own belief patterns and admit you were mistaken (gasp!). You'd have to give up privileges that don't do much for you anyway. You'd have to have unpleasant convos like this one calling out racism because it sure isn't going to trot away on its own into the beautiful sunset. You'd have to question the MSM narrative being force-fed into your cerebral cortex. You'd have to see horrible violence against people that makes you cry for days and question existence - if you have a heart and its accompanying emotions, that is. And this is just the Black story. Latinxs, Asians, Natives, Middle Eastern.... We could be here for a few lifetimes talking about all the engineered ways people are judged for their skin color. But you don't have to worry about that. Because in your mind, racism doesn't exist. You're off the hook! Therefore, don't let this topic concern you for one more minute. Oh wait, you started this topic? Hmmm... maybe you're a teeny tiny bit concerned after all. I mean, why go through so much trouble proving that something that doesn't exist... doesn't exist?

Now here's the tricky part. Most people think in binary terms when it comes to racism. They think "Racism=bad and non-racism=good. Therefore, I can't be racist, because I'm not a bad person." But that's not how racism works. Even though it sprouts from white supremacy, there isn't a specific race to blame because it's a socially engineered mind program. We're all discriminatory to some degree as long as we're even remotely connected to any institutional system at all. Being racist doesn't make us bad people. It makes us controlled people. We might even be... victims. It takes a conscious effort to dismantle our own thought processes and I'm not even sure I'd recommend it because of those aforementioned fun things. So don't go spreading false information saying that I'm blaming white people. You conjured that one up all on your own.

[Atlas]

Darren Seals [...] a Ferguson protestor who was recently found shot dead in a burning car. He was the 6th Black Ferguson activist/protestor to "mysteriously" die in a similar manner.
The detectives told him to "choose your enemies wisely" (@0:47)
67gJv6JqEaM
The detective said: "you might want to pick your enemies better" (@14:03)
srdcOyFpd_I
My question is: why would the detectives suggest such a thing? did they try to warn him of a potential 'enemy' threat? if so, why didn't they try to protect him? was it because he was black? :sherlock:

[Flash]

Years ago, I was talking to a colleague at work about racism. He is black. He was describing to me how racism was lived on a daily basis, little snarky comments overheard for example, people sighing as if saying "well, I knew he was xyz", and this feeling that even when they do not talk or show anything, you can feel the subtle racism coming out of their pores.

I was listening and said in total surprise "wow, it truly looks and feel like I fell with mysoginistic men, they would not even talk but I can feel their stance, but could never name it since they said nothing, but I know"

He answered "yes, that is it" but the funnier part is that I could see in his non verbal language that we was not please at all to be compared, as a black person, to women situations.

Racism all along, white male on top, white fat male second, black male in third, black fat male fourth, white female fifth, white fat female sixt or equal to black slim female, and who knows, black fat females last??

Therefore yes, you are right racisim and mysogyny as well are socially engineered mind programs and yes, we are all discriminatory to some degree as long as we're even remotely connected to any institutional system at all.






A few more thoughts....

On using "victimization" as an excuse for racism.

No one did that, they said there is no racism, because there isn't.

Please , again for like the 5th time on this thread.. PLEASE SHOW ME RACISM


One of these days, I will have mastered posting member quotes. But for now, I am thoroughly confused. And I'm a web designer, haha.

Dear TargeT, I've only got so much time I can devote to Avalon each evening so I didn't want to waste it on a non-conversation. But I'm in a snarky mood so... Warning: patronizing snark ahead.

I'm not your tutor, pal. And it's not my job to prove or convince you of anything. That's your job. Thankfully for you, there's this learning place called the world wide web. You can start with a simple internet search and type in "systemic racism" or "structural racism" if you were actually interested. But if you can't see the everyday racism which is everywhere, and especially in the confines of your own mind of denial, even Glorious Google can't help you.

Are you saying that millions of protestors, activists, grassroots organizations, social media hashtags, news stories, the mass incarceration of Black people, the hundreds of Black mothers on the pavement crying because she just lost her son to an extrajudicial police killing are all for nothing? And that people are sacrificing their time and resources, enduring endless hostility (from lovely people like you, bless you all) and even risking their lives just because they like sitting around twiddling their thumbs? It doesn't get any more "logical fallacy" than that, bro.

Look up Darren Seals. (I know you're not actually going to do that. I said that for other viewers.) He was a Ferguson protestor who was recently found shot dead in a burning car. He was the 6th Black Ferguson activist/protestor to "mysteriously" die in a similar manner. But I'm sure all of those news stories aren't real. Maybe they exist in some distant, unknown galaxy in a 6 times removed parallel dimension, but I'm sure it couldn't be happening on YOUR shift and on YOUR planet. No, no, noooooo.... That would make you responsible. You'd have to challenge your own belief patterns and admit you were mistaken (gasp!). You'd have to give up privileges that don't do much for you anyway. You'd have to have unpleasant convos like this one calling out racism because it sure isn't going to trot away on its own into the beautiful sunset. You'd have to question the MSM narrative being force-fed into your cerebral cortex. You'd have to see horrible violence against people that makes you cry for days and question existence - if you have a heart and its accompanying emotions, that is. And this is just the Black story. Latinxs, Asians, Natives, Middle Eastern.... We could be here for a few lifetimes talking about all the engineered ways people are judged for their skin color. But you don't have to worry about that. Because in your mind, racism doesn't exist. You're off the hook! Therefore, don't let this topic concern you for one more minute. Oh wait, you started this topic? Hmmm... maybe you're a teeny tiny bit concerned after all. I mean, why go through so much trouble proving that something that doesn't exist... doesn't exist?

Now here's the tricky part. Most people think in binary terms when it comes to racism. They think "Racism=bad and non-racism=good. Therefore, I can't be racist, because I'm not a bad person." But that's not how racism works. Even though it sprouts from white supremacy, there isn't a specific race to blame because it's a socially engineered mind program. We're all discriminatory to some degree as long as we're even remotely connected to any institutional system at all. Being racist doesn't make us bad people. It makes us controlled people. We might even be... victims. It takes a conscious effort to dismantle our own thought processes and I'm not even sure I'd recommend it because of those aforementioned fun things. So don't go spreading false information saying that I'm blaming white people. You conjured that one up all on your own.

[RunningDeer]

One of these days, I will have mastered posting member quotes. But for now, I am thoroughly confused. And I'm a web designer, haha.
From "How to reply with quote" - post #2 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?66104-How-to-Tips-with-Visuals-for-Links-Quotes-Images-etc.&p=766952&viewfull=1#post766952).

step 1: (click @ bottom right of post you respond to)

http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii610/WhiteCrowBlackDeer/Computer_Tips/reply_zpsdgzpqeay.jpg


*****

step 2:

http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii610/WhiteCrowBlackDeer/Computer_Tips/after-quote_zpsmuoddsyv.jpg

:thumb:

[Hervé]

a repost from there:
... There may be a way to restore some sanity between those culturally ingrained behaviours and that's recalling past lives... like the Druze (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?92980-Past-Lives-Accounts&p=1094525&viewfull=1#post1094525) and others do.

I vaguely recall reading a book way back in the last century by a Palestinian woman who was recalling her latest past life as a Jewish woman... and comparing the suffering from both side of the fence... then, she compared another underlying cultural programming that deeply affects both camps : their treatment of women: an exact match of behaviour vis-à-vis the female of the species from the male portion of either camp. Like in many other cultures, women are considered belonging to a species well below batrachians in the "evolution" ladder... which is a world wide programming in existence even underneath the "veneer" of some so-called "modern" societies. Thanks to the programming/training of, so-called, "gods (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?38941-Biglino-s-Unexpected-Bible-Translating-it-literally-UFO-s&p=1090325&viewfull=1#post1090325)."

So, "genetics," "bloodlines," ethnicity and races? What's that got to do with the price of fish?

[ThePythonicCow]

One of these days, I will have mastered posting member quotes. But for now, I am thoroughly confused. And I'm a web designer, haha.
From "How to reply with quote" - post #2 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?66104-How-to-Tips-with-Visuals-for-Links-Quotes-Images-etc.&p=766952&viewfull=1#post766952).


The trick is how to trim the quoting down, as both you (Running Deer) and Intuitive Fish did (Good!), and still keep matching pairs of properly nested opening
and closing markers.

[RunningDeer]

One of these days, I will have mastered posting member quotes. But for now, I am thoroughly confused. And I'm a web designer, haha.


From "How to reply with quote" - post #2 (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?66104-How-to-Tips-with-Visuals-for-Links-Quotes-Images-etc.&p=766952&viewfull=1#post766952).



The trick is how to trim the quoting down, as both you (Running Deer) and Intuitive Fish did (Good!), and still keep matching pairs of properly nested opening
and closing markers.

Thanks, Paul. The beginning and end tag is critical. Some members break up the quoted material. See above for example.

[TargeT]

I'm not your tutor, pal. .

I'll tell you what.


You keep on thinking what you think (with apparently no evidence) and let the adults have a discussion here eh?

I'm certainly not covering this topic for my own edification,, mostly it's to illustrate how people who have the beliefs like you do have been manipulated into it and how this whole racing this is a distraction (it's not the issue it's played out to be).

Straw man me all you want (I assume you don't know what a straw man is: change my argument to one more easily defeat-able.. like "there is no racism" .... it's really a pathetic manipulative logical fallacy.. very irksome), pat your self on the back and confer with your echo chamber all you want, until you come up with actual proof (for you and others) of a thing, what are you actually believing in, the personality of the person who convinced you??

Are you telling me you see rampant racism in the Pacific North West?

[DNA]

I'm not your tutor, pal. .

I'll tell you what.


You keep on thinking what you think (with apparently no evidence) and let the adults have a discussion here eh?


Try not and make this personal Targe, insinuating Introspective Fish is a child is indeed a personal attack.
She has made far more sense than yourself in so far as your posting is concerned.
I would post more on the subject but I consider you a lost cause in so far as how entrenched you are in your reasoning.


Regardless please don't attack folks, especially a new member who shows so much potential in terms of her future contributions here.


I'm certainly not covering this topic for my own edification,, mostly it's to illustrate how people who have the beliefs like you do have been manipulated into it and how this whole racing this is a distraction (it's not the issue it's played out to be).


By your own estimation, which I might add no one is agreeing with you about. You are solely on your own on this one, and I for one find you are incredibly out gunned in this argument. Where as you are making the most elementary comparisons by splashing us with youtube videos showing stupid people doing stupid things she is pounding you with point after point.

You are drawing stick figures in this argument you are waging and Intuitive Fish is combating you with publication worthy writing.

[Matthew]

I'm not your tutor, pal. .

I'll tell you what.


You keep on thinking what you think (with apparently no evidence) and let the adults have a discussion here eh?


Try not and make this personal Targe, insinuating Introspective Fish is a child is indeed a personal attack.
She has made far more sense than yourself in so far as your posting is concerned.

loool stop right there.. now its my go ;) There's no need for that last bit. Same as I would say to both of you the content is excellent except the barbs.




I would post more on the subject but ....

The barbs don't do your excellent points and posts credit, both of yous. Barb spirals are boring. Other content excellent

[Mike]

I'm not your tutor, pal. .

I'll tell you what.


You keep on thinking what you think (with apparently no evidence) and let the adults have a discussion here eh?

I'm certainly not covering this topic for my own edification,, mostly it's to illustrate how people who have the beliefs like you do have been manipulated into it and how this whole racing this is a distraction (it's not the issue it's played out to be).

Straw man me all you want (I assume you don't know what a straw man is: change my argument to one more easily defeat-able.. like "there is no racism" .... it's really a pathetic manipulative logical fallacy.. very irksome), pat your self on the back and confer with your echo chamber all you want, until you come up with actual proof (for you and others) of a thing, what are you actually believing in, the personality of the person who convinced you??

Are you telling me you see rampant racism in the Pacific North West?



You play nice now, Target.

Trying to be clever doesn't suit you. Stick with your pie charts and we'll all just do our best to pretend you arent here, ok?

Your dedication to being wrong is almost admirable. Theres something in your stubbornness that I almost admire, honestly. But it still doesnt stop me from hoping that your responsibilities with the Hitler Youth with eventually cause you to give up your distorted anti-sanity crusade here on Avalon. Unlikely, but a guy can hope, can't he?

Till then, keep digging yourself that hole. They say if you dig far enough and long enough you'll eventually wind up in China. Not a bad idea actually. I don't think they can access avalon there.

[TargeT]

Regardless please don't attack folks,

I'm pretty sure you've never seen me attack some one ;)

I've repeatedly asked for some sort of "point" (which you so adamantly express I've been smashed and destroyed with, yet I see no "points" no evidence, no facts so far). Generally when requests are ignored, side stepped or when you are berated for asking them... well I have children, I see the same pattern ;)



By your own estimation, which I might add no one is agreeing with you about. You are solely on your own on this one, and I for one find you are incredibly out gunned in this argument.

I highly doubt I am on my own ;)

Out gunned yes, I'm quite used to that.. I'm challenging a meme that has been hard set into society for quite a few decades.... but the opposition has no ammunition.. so it's a bunch of empty tubes really isn't it?

I did it with global warming, that was a contentious journey

I did it with radiation, that was an uphill effort

I did it again with Fukushema....

Why would I back away from this one?


Where as you are making the most elementary comparisons by splashing us with youtube videos showing stupid people doing stupid things she is pounding you with point after point.

well you're not watching the videos so you can't really comment can you ;)

I posted a couple videos of people being stupid, then some really smart people analyzing culture and a few videos noting how disingenuous the BLM movement is.


You are drawing stick figures in this argument you are waging and Intuitive Fish is combating you with publication worthy writing.

Eloquent writing is meaningless when it's based on nothing.

Show me the structure!!



Trying to be clever doesn't suit you. Stick with your pie charts and we'll all just do our best to pretend you arent here, ok?

Your dedication to being wrong is almost admirable. Theres something in your stubbornness that I almost admire, honestly. But it still doesnt stop me from hoping that your responsibilities with the Hitler Youth with eventually cause you to give up your distorted anti-sanity crusade here on Avalon. Unlikely, but a guy can hope, can't he?


Pretty sure this isn't the first time I've been called a racist, or aligned with Hitler in this thread.... But I'm not female nor new, I'm a white male.. so F-me right?

anyone want to "white knight" for me?



no?

Yeah, I'm used to that.



Till then, keep digging yourself that hole. They say if you dig far enough and long enough you'll eventually wind up in China. Not a bad idea actually. I don't think they can access avalon there.

Growth is never achieved with out struggle.. so struggle I shall!

[RunningDeer]

Regardless please don't attack folks, especially a new member who shows so much potential in terms of her future contributions here.
Thanks, DNA. http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/Recovered/smileys-hugs-765537_zpso1eaenyy.gif
I second that.

[Bill Ryan]

Regardless please don't attack folks, especially a new member who shows so much potential in terms of her future contributions here.
Thanks, DNA. http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/Recovered/smileys-hugs-765537_zpso1eaenyy.gif
I second that.

[Mod note from Bill]

And I third it. :)

This has evolved to be a very valuable and interesting discussion on a difficult, sensitive and often complex topic.

Please always show every new member -- and everyone else watching who may be thinking of joining the community! -- that we're smart, articulate, well-informed, and pleasant people to hang out with, no matter what our personal views may be on a tricky topic.

:focus:

[TargeT]

Some people get the concept easily, like math (though I've always had to struggle with that one, I know a few people that take to it like a fish to water).

This guy has the right idea:
https://i.imgur.com/nOOSeUP.png

last line = important

[Dianamar]

If i may make an observation in my short time here.

This ties in with Racism , Misogyny , Misandry etc etc.

Some are perpetuating something from , i'm sure , old arguments here. This is true of white supremacy , blacktion , ( any other racial epitaph ) in the real world too ... Its perpetuated because of ego , on both parts , it is usually instigated by one who is still stuck in a situation from the past and usually nothing to do with the present however feels somehow vindicated when they " react "

sometimes we react to instigation for righteous reasons and continue the righteous behavior till we are acknowledged ... or brow beaten into submission by the many

sometimes we harp on about the past in the vein hope it will heal it whilst alienating the present ...

both are to blame

one should refrain

be the bigger one and don't fall for it

[Innocent Warrior]

TargeT, I've got the concept you're trying to convey and you're right, it's total BS and it's a trap but there is racism both sides. I meant it when I said I won't be sharing anything personal anymore before, so I won't go into it but to let you know how my story ended, suffice to say my sister never forgave me or the aborigines and she moved to the US and married a leader of a group with too many Ks in the name. No joke.

P.S. I won't type their name, refuse to, but they're still around and they're influencial people in society. If anyone remembers just one thing from what I've written, please make it this; "denial of racialism breeds more racialism".

I'm leaving now, all the best and be kind to each other.

[Intuitive Fish]

The trick is how to trim the quoting down, as both you (Running Deer) and Intuitive Fish did (Good!), and still keep matching pairs of properly nested opening
and closing markers.

Thanks so much, Paul. And yes, I was confused as to what to do with the various quote tags when quoting a partial quote, especially when they're nested. I think I was posting the wrong opening quote tag. I'll keep trying and learning.

Question: Should I quote and/or respond to multiple members in one post? Or it is better to post a new post for each response? I didn't see this question in the FAQ/Help.

[Intuitive Fish]

Years ago, I was talking to a colleague at work about racism. He is black. He was describing to me how racism was lived on a daily basis, little snarky comments overheard for example, people sighing as if saying "well, I knew he was xyz", and this feeling that even when they do not talk or show anything, you can feel the subtle racism coming out of their pores.

I was listening and said in total surprise "wow, it truly looks and feel like I fell with mysoginistic men, they would not even talk but I can feel their stance, but could never name it since they said nothing, but I know"

He answered "yes, that is it" but the funnier part is that I could see in his non verbal language that we was not please at all to be compared, as a black person, to women situations.

Racism all along, white male on top, white fat male second, black male in third, black fat male fourth, white female fifth, white fat female sixt or equal to black slim female, and who knows, black fat females last??

Therefore yes, you are right racisim and mysogyny as well are socially engineered mind programs and yes, we are all discriminatory to some degree as long as we're even remotely connected to any institutional system at all.



Flash, excellent, excellent observations. That's the frustrating thing about trying to explain racism. It's such a normalized and internalized way of being, it's almost as if racism has its own auric field.

Social inequality in general seems to be a form and fundamental aspect of feudalism, but goes back long before the 9th century so I'm sure there's a better term for it. I don't have the range to say anything more about that, but if true, feudalism gives us an idea of what we're working with.

There's a definite hierarchy of privilege and condensed power, although the lines are somewhat blurred to keep everyone thinking we have a chance to attain or cozy up to a higher power.... That seeking of attainment sustains the system.

You would think that people who are oppressed wouldn't oppress other people. They know how it feels so why would they do that to someone else? But the hierarchy pyramid is why we see for example, black people who are racist against other black people or they're prejudiced against another oppressed group. For example, gay men and atheists also have a reputation for being sexist. White feminism has systemic problems with racism. White feminism is essentially white supremacy under the disguise of being liberal or "progressive." So that's why it's important to address all social inequalities rather than focus on one, assuming we're here to evolve.

The further down the pyramid we go, the more oppression people experience, generally speaking. So the transwoman of color who's living in Liberia with a mental illness (yes, these people exist, and there's a growing number...) is going to have a REALLY tough time in life and has the least technical chance of surviving. The system is designed to annihilate them, although we also see them growing stronger because that's what oppression does to people, if it doesn't kill them. Sometimes I think, wait, who truly has the advantages here? But the privileged do have measurable and definable material/physical advantages.

So, currently we're seeing women's rights making progress with feminism, we're seeing POC's fighting for their liberation, also LGBTQIA's.... Non-standardized beauty and people with disabilities are just starting to bring awareness to their oppression and working to change those mentalities.... I suspect when people in poverty secure their human rights (such as through say, Basic Income - which is why that policy is mostly rejected) we might see some kind of collapse of capitalism and the royal family exposed.

But if so, what then? Would we live in a truly diverse world with equality? Or would we only evolve into another form of feudalism? Hunger Games, anyone? Haha! In Hunger Games, the oppressed rebels defeated the power at the top, only to become that same power. How do we break this evolutionary cycle which seems rather linear? And just as importantly, do we want to?

[Intuitive Fish]

I'm not your tutor, pal. .

I'll tell you what.


You keep on thinking what you think (with apparently no evidence) and let the adults have a discussion here eh?

I'm certainly not covering this topic for my own edification,, mostly it's to illustrate how people who have the beliefs like you do have been manipulated into it and how this whole racing this is a distraction (it's not the issue it's played out to be).

Straw man me all you want (I assume you don't know what a straw man is: change my argument to one more easily defeat-able.. like "there is no racism" .... it's really a pathetic manipulative logical fallacy.. very irksome), pat your self on the back and confer with your echo chamber all you want, until you come up with actual proof (for you and others) of a thing, what are you actually believing in, the personality of the person who convinced you??

Are you telling me you see rampant racism in the Pacific North West?

Haha! I'm actually starting to like you. You're fun. Cheers, bro.:fencing:

[Intuitive Fish]

I'm not your tutor, pal. .

I'll tell you what.


You keep on thinking what you think (with apparently no evidence) and let the adults have a discussion here eh?


Try not and make this personal Targe, insinuating Introspective Fish is a child is indeed a personal attack.
She has made far more sense than yourself in so far as your posting is concerned.

loool stop right there.. now its my go ;) There's no need for that last bit. Same as I would say to both of you the content is excellent except the barbs.




I would post more on the subject but ....

The barbs don't do your excellent points and posts credit, both of yous. Barb spirals are boring. Other content excellent

You know, I used to think the same and those jabs can be really disturbing and uncomfortable and even painful. But straightforward talk can break down barriers and bypass mindless conversation patterns when social courtesies cannot. That's why I like a good joke. I hope there are lots of jokesters in this forum. No better way to express a hard truth than cushioning it in a (relatively respectful) joke.

In fact, I'd say that politeness is deceptive most of the time. Who always genuinely feels polite? I can easily find myself in moralistic politeness so I win friends but that just kills the spirit of saying anything. Personally, I'd rather someone show their true colors and come right out and say what they're thinking so I know where they stand and therefore how to relate/connect, or not. Then you can trust that when they are kind, it's real.

[Intuitive Fish]

Sigh... just before I logged on to Avalon, yet another Black person was killed unjustly by police in the U.S.. His name was Alfred Olango. He was epileptic and having a seizure when he was shot. Police confiscated eyewitness phones but there are live witnesses sharing their testimonies on social media. There's been something like 20 of these extrajudicial executions since NFL Quarterback Colin Kaepernick refused to stand for the nation anthem.

Speaking of the U.S. national anthem, I mentioned earlier that it celebrates slavery and the death of slaves. We rarely sing the third verse for a reason:


And where is that band who so vauntingly swore,
That the havoc of war and the battle’s confusion
A home and a Country should leave us no more?
Their blood has wash’d out their foul footstep’s pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

You can read more about that in this Snopes article (http://www.snopes.com/2016/08/29/star-spangled-banner-and-slavery/).

But then there's this bold speech by AT&T CEO (!) Randall Stephenson today that confirms what I've been saying. This is kind of a big deal that it's coming from someone in his position, and also proof that we're making progress.

ThO74-oFt_Q

[T Smith]

Vasili, thank you so much for asking this question. To be honest, I was going to share this subject anyway even if no one asked, just in case any lurkers wanted to know. Here’s what I’ve learned so far:


Understand what racism is and be aware of social programming (which you do and are, but I’m putting this out there for anyone/everyone.) Here are a few racist statements from this thread:

“I’m overly cautious around black people with what I say and do.” This statement assumes all Black people (people with a certain skin color) are dangerous at some level to some degree.

“In Canada we do not have , sorry, ghettos. And we don't have inner-city gangs. It is these that allow hate to spread.” Ghettos specifically belong to Black people because of enforced poverty. This statement blanket assumes all Black people are or are associated with gangs and spreading hate.

“Of course, they have plenty of intra-community violence.” This statement assumes all people with black colored skin are violent.

“I’ve never been a racist but…” Anytime you hear this phrase you know a racist statement is coming! Aaaaand… here it is: “lately I have been getting very pissed off at the attempts by so many blacks to blame whites for many of the circumstances in their lives.” This statement blames Black people for the racism they’re oppressed with, from people who identify as white. (This quote is a case in point.)

“I still don't judge a person by their race but…” Oh no, not again! Here it comes…. “I certainly have become more and more upset with how many blacks seem to be so easily falling into the trap that has been laid for them.” Black-shaming, blaming, hating.

“We focus on Syrian refugees and not the civil war causing the refugee crisis.” This is a more subtle form of racism and likely unintentional but also common. It assumes that a war (or any event) takes precedence over the people that war/event affects. It also blames Syrian people for Western war profiteering and military occupation in foreign lands.... A non-racist way to say the same thing might be: “The best way to help Syrian refugees (the people losing their safety, land and their homes) is to put an end to war profiteering, war propaganda and aggressive military foreign policies.”

“Why doesn’t anybody talk about the racism against white people?” This is called "reverse racism." Reverse racism doesn’t and can’t exist because racism is one group exerting social, political and economic power over another group. The powerless group can’t exert power over the dominant group because the dominant group collectively possesses the majority of power. Look at the majority of people in power. They aren't Black, Hispanic, Syrian, Yemeni, Indigenous, etc. They're predominantly white or light skinned.... The darker the skin, the greater the oppression, generally speaking.

The above statement also attempts to justify discrimination toward POC’s based on a white person's experience, elevating a white person’s experience above POC's. Why do you think people of color distrust and react non-desirably to people who identify as white? Would you also blame Jews for fearing and hating Nazis? Not that these reactions resolve the issue, but the issue isn’t that people of color are horrible people (which is racism.) The issue is that racism creates division and conflict on multiple levels. The problem isn’t Black people. The problem is racist institutional powers that oppress Black people. Discrimination against POC’s occur at a systemic level. Not to disregard your personal traumas, Innocent Warrior, because those are important too, but as far as this topic is concerned, racism is an officially sanctioned reality hiding behind the scenes which keeps you hostile toward races without institutional power. You’re targeting the wrong group of people - powerless people who have been suppressed and violently oppressed since the dawn of white colonialism.


So, when you know common racist themes such as the ones I pointed out, it’s easier to catch them when they pop up in our thoughts.


When you catch them, you can correct the statement with a personal truth you genuinely believe. You might have to do this a lot!

Guilt and shame are pointless. Simply understand that racism is an institutional construct, stop doing the harmful thing (as much as possible), commit to listening and learning and find genuine ways to support POC’s.



Here are some other things to know that I’ve learned from POC’s:


Learn about their general histories (you might have to dig through underground info), their cultures, their slang and language, etc. This helps to understand their experiences.

Don’t steal their cultures. Whitewashing appropriation not only destroys their culture but “white people” are praised for doing/wearing many things POC’s are harassed, assaulted and killed for.

Be careful not to expect POC’s to speak “white English” because many don’t have an equal educational opportunity. Respect the way they speak even if it’s considered “broken” English or bad grammar.

Don’t fetishize them or their cultures.

Don’t use “not all white people…” to dismiss and erase the fact that all POC’s experience racism.

When they share their stories, don’t derail the topic onto a different oppression and be careful not to insert yourself into the story as if entitled.

Understand that POC’s are usually dealing with more than one kind of oppression such as involuntary poverty, classism, sexism, genderism, etc. Sometimes people focus on one and ignore the others, but all oppressions intersect.

Not all POC’s agree with each other and that’s okay. You are only responsible for **you** and your views and actions.

Don’t get your news about the Black, Muslim, Native Peoples... struggle from news networks, including alt media. Most media outlets are dominated by white people. Just look at highly influential late night TV shows… almost all are hosted by white males who claim to be "progressive." News outlets have a conflict of interest and either have to play it safe to maintain “integrity” and funding, or they have to wait for an “official statement.” I actually get my news from Twitter. Sure, it has its share of false info, but it’s the only way to get reporting from multiple sources with video footage and evidence from everyday people who are at the scene (as well as long Twitter threads meticulously scrutinizing said evidence) It’s also the only way to get the story in the first place as news outlets leave them out unless there’s a popular protest.


When you get to know people of color, their beliefs, struggles, etc, you’ll inevitably want to support them in their liberation (unless you don’t have a soul.) If you’re not a POC, here are some things to know when supporting them. I've learned a lot of these the hard way and am still learning:


Watch out for “white savior complex.”

Know that a “white” voice holds more weight and credibility than POC’s and can therefore easily hijack their narrative.

Share their own unedited words crediting them before assuming to speak for them.

Don’t expect them to educate anyone - this creates an extra burden for them on top of the burdens they’re already dealing with, plus they may not feel comfortable speaking about their experiences as there is always a backlash and repercussions in doing so; we should’ve already done our own research anyway.

Don’t say, “I don’t see color.” It’s important to acknowledge they’re a unique race, and so are their experiences.

Don’t equate your tough times with their tough times. They have unique and greater struggles within the system matrix.

Know that you’re going to mess up. Unintentional slips will slip. Simply admit the mistake, make any reparations if possible and welcomed, and move on.

Don’t use their friendship to alleviate guilt or as a token friend. Just be their friend (if consensual.) Don’t we all just want authentic friends?

There’s a lot I’m missing but this is already risking a tl;dr. But now that I think about it, this is good info for any relationship and can probably be filed under Common Sense or Basic Human Respect.


¤=[Post Update]=¤

I have a feeling a didn't respond in the right place and in the right way. Apologies!

Hello Intuitive Fish,

I mean no disrespect, and I appreciate your observations and the intent underlying your prescriptions, but at the risk of offending you and many others who will not share my point of view, I have to say I’m sorry. There is something inherently wrong with this worldview. I would go so far to say this is an entirely anti-human perspective.

Here are some troubling questions that come to mind when I attempt to ponder this program. Are we really such soulless beings who (that?) require this degree of corrective programming, as fashioned by progressive social engineers? Are we not capable of sentience and love as individuals? I would pose these as sincere questions open to discussion and debate. Your prescription, however, assumes an entirely Hobbesian formula and presumably answers these questions as given. And while I appreciate your reasoning, passion, and good intentions, if we get right down to the core of what this thread is about, we must ask ourselves whether we are divine spirits all (or some?) or merely soulless animals (all or some?) who require endless (and authoritarian) conditioning in order to achieve social justice, all in the name of aping the motions of elevated being (which of course, is much different from truly experiencing elevated being). Are we humans really so doomed, unconscious, and separated from Source, that we are not capable of self-directing our experience? Are we so bereft of spirituality, conscience, and the innate ability to experience God without a running program? If so, surely there are additional rules and guidelines necessary to govern my thoughts, feelings, and perceptions of reality and the very dynamic of the interpersonal relationships I share with my fellow humans? I’m sorry, I have more faith in humanity than that. We are more than that…

Regardless, it would be helpful for me if you would clarify on what grounds you submit I am incapable of sentient experience; is it because of my skin pigmentation or just because I have 46 chromosomes that I am incapable of transcending societal conditioning? I hope you can appreciate the paradox here, i.e., social engineers and anthropological technocrats prescribing conditioning in order to transcend conditioning.

I apologize for the rant. I for one am tired of the running wheel, of the shocks, of bells, of mazes. It’s time we all free ourselves of this nonsense and remember Who we are…

Kind Regards,

T Smith

[Eram]

Racism is one of a few subjects that is totally polarized in western society.

Racist thinking and acting is either something you give in to, or you completely utterly condemn it, like you are supposed to (according to current values).
The latter is a form of political correctness that has hypnotized all who have come to recognize the flaws in racist thinking.

There is no middle ground it seems and I think society is in dire need of one.

Behind every racist is a scared and insecure human being and behind every condemner is also a scared and insecure human being who is afraid of what racism brings about.

To condemn anything is to give it more energy and give it more power.
I think most people on Avalon have come to recognize this mechanism.
So it is with racism.


A racist who gets condemned and pointed at will only dig in deeper and lose any chance to build up more trust and confidence in things that scare him and drive him toward racist thinking.

We are in need of a more understanding and gentle approach toward racism.
Understand what's behind it and address that , instead of outlawing and condemning it only.


NB: the racism issue is so sensitive even that we cannot have a discussion about the possibility of social engineering in the BLM movement without totally derailing the topic into yes and no racism accusations. Just to illustrate my point. :)

[ThePythonicCow]

Question: Should I quote and/or respond to multiple members in one post? Or it is better to post a new post for each response? I didn't see this question in the FAQ/Help.
I'm not aware of a general rule of thumb on that.

I sometimes respond to several in the same post, if there is someway in which the replies are related and make a whole, and I sometimes reply in separate posts. If we reply in two separate reply posts, with less than three minutes between the replies, the forum software will automatically consolidate the two reply posts into one post.

I suggest experimenting, and seeing which works better, communicating your thoughts to more readers, in which situations.

[Ernie Nemeth]

I would not argue that racism is a manufactured phenomena based mostly on inaccurate generalisations.

I would also not argue that there have been many atrocities committed in the name of racism.

There seems to be a schism here, which usually points to a either a flaw in communication or in logic. And since the definition of racism has yet to be determined, maybe we are not talking about the same thing. The aborigines are a unique class as their removal from society has been systemic and ongoing for hundreds of years. What has happened to the natives of the Americas is on a scale all its own with only a few other examples of genocide that compare - like the race wars of Rwandan, for one. The most recent case of rampant racism has been the Jewish holocaust, where the complete eradication of the Jewish race was undertaken. It is a good case to study because it resulted in the formation of a country to extirpate their plight as political refugees with no official homeland.

It would seem that racism is equivalent to nationalism and that not all see eye to eye on what race their nation is. But nationalism has been diluted primarily by corporatism that seeks to blur borders and usurp national law. And by the globalists who wish to place a worldwide power structure above all nations that can then harmonize laws and regulations, and enforce them, globally.

The diluting of race, the mixing of the citizens of various nations, ties in nicely with the agenda of corporations and globalists in general who both wish to usurp the power of nations to enact and protect their own laws. The agenda is the integration of nations into economic regions and the restriction on a nation's ability to act independently. Without independence there is no state.

If on the basis of fear itself, an argument wishes to refute the need for fear in any form, then it argues against itself. And it argues against the inappropriateness of fear in the "face" of racism. But it is not fear that is passed on in racist propaganda, it is mistrust, it is specific behavior, it is hate. Hate is not fear. Fear comes from the repercussions of a hateful deed. Big difference.

Racism is not the color of one's skin, unless it is radicalized propaganda. Racism is misplaced nationalism, and the memory of old grudges of old nations.

Of course there is what we call racism, and like all other indoctrination, it is manufactured. It is a product of our need to gather together in greater and greater numbers, for the common good, in the face of adversity, and for the sake of safety and prosperity.

We are a social animal. We value the advantage of numbers. If the greatest numbers can best be appropriated by inciting violence based on racial differences then so it shall be. It is up to each to decide for themselves.

[TargeT]

We are a social animal. We value the advantage of numbers. If the greatest numbers can best be appropriated by inciting violence

I think humanity can be coaxed to violence when the right mentality is present, and that mentality is being fostered (fear of victimization, feeling of being cornered, feeling of separation from the "group" etc..)

X6RXCdMwKkg

[Intuitive Fish]

Hello Intuitive Fish,

I mean no disrespect, and I appreciate your observations and the intent underlying your prescriptions, but at the risk of offending you and many others who will not share my point of view, I have to say I’m sorry. There is something inherently wrong with this worldview. I would go so far to say this is an entirely anti-human perspective.

Here are some troubling questions that come to mind when I attempt to ponder this program. Are we really such soulless beings who (that?) require this degree of corrective programming, as fashioned by progressive social engineers? Are we not capable of sentience and love as individuals? I would pose these as sincere questions open to discussion and debate. Your prescription, however, assumes an entirely Hobbesian formula and presumably answers these questions as given. And while I appreciate your reasoning, passion, and good intentions, if we get right down to the core of what this thread is about, we must ask ourselves whether we are divine spirits all (or some?) or merely soulless animals (all or some?) who require endless (and authoritarian) conditioning in order to achieve social justice, all in the name of aping the motions of elevated being (which of course, is much different from truly experiencing elevated being). Are we humans really so doomed, unconscious, and separated from Source, that we are not capable of self-directing our experience? Are we so bereft of spirituality, conscience, and the innate ability to experience God without a running program? If so, surely there are additional rules and guidelines necessary to govern my thoughts, feelings, and perceptions of reality and the very dynamic of the interpersonal relationships I share with my fellow humans? I’m sorry, I have more faith in humanity than that. We are more than that…

Regardless, it would be helpful for me if you would clarify on what grounds you submit I am incapable of sentient experience; is it because of my skin pigmentation or just because I have 46 chromosomes that I am incapable of transcending societal conditioning? I hope you can appreciate the paradox here, i.e., social engineers and anthropological technocrats prescribing conditioning in order to transcend conditioning.

I apologize for the rant. I for one am tired of the running wheel, of the shocks, of bells, of mazes. It’s time we all free ourselves of this nonsense and remember Who we are…

Kind Regards,

T Smith

Hi, T Smith. Thanks for your post and for your question.

If I thought humans were so incapable, doomed and unconscious, then why would I waste energy calling people to standards of human respect that I know we're not only capable of, but would prefer and would make a better world for all? You might want to check on why you're holding that idea.

They aren't rules or guidelines. They're voices of pain: people letting us know how we can help them in their struggle. I'm simply repeating what I've learned from them. If you wanted to help Native Peoples protesting the Dakota Access Pipeline, wouldn't you ask them what supplies they need in their camp? It's the same concept.

Now I don't think everyone is ready to wake up to this issue, which is A-okay, but I do think everyone is capable of waking up. I don't think you're incapable at all. I think you are perfectly capable, competent, proficient and intelligent.... I believe in you. You can do it! I'll be your cheerleader on the sidelines chanting posi mantras, and doing jumps and backflips. Then I'll throw my pompoms up in the air as we celebrate your victory. Maybe we could even have a couple of beers together - even though I can't stand beer or the inherently sexist implications of cheerleading, but that's beside the point. I'd be happy to do that for someone so capable, awesome and spectacular as yourself.

Remember, you are capable! ;)

[Intuitive Fish]

Racism is one of a few subjects that is totally polarized in western society.

Racist thinking and acting is either something you give in to, or you completely utterly condemn it, like you are supposed to (according to current values).
The latter is a form of political correctness that has hypnotized all who have come to recognize the flaws in racist thinking.

There is no middle ground it seems and I think society is in dire need of one.

Behind every racist is a scared and insecure human being and behind every condemner is also a scared and insecure human being who is afraid of what racism brings about.

To condemn anything is to give it more energy and give it more power.
I think most people on Avalon have come to recognize this mechanism.
So it is with racism.


A racist who gets condemned and pointed at will only dig in deeper and lose any chance to build up more trust and confidence in things that scare him and drive him toward racist thinking.

We are in need of a more understanding and gentle approach toward racism.
Understand what's behind it and address that , instead of outlawing and condemning it only.


NB: the racism issue is so sensitive even that we cannot have a discussion about the possibility of social engineering in the BLM movement without totally derailing the topic into yes and no racism accusations. Just to illustrate my point. :)

Sure, there are better ways to communicate than others but it's tempting to take a really awful subject and try to pretty it up so no one gets their feelings hurt. That certainly doesn't work when there's a long-held deeply embedded belief that permeates every area of our minds and society. It also doesn't work when suffering has reached its limit and so have oppressed people. I think Blacks deserve a lot of credit for handling decades of state violence as peacefully as they have.

The only way to eradicate something is to starve it, which means we need to stop feeding racism, which to me, means letting people know that they're feeding it. Bringing awareness to the issue doesn't mean we're empowering racism. Racism is already empowered in a zillion mindless everyday ways.

I personally bring awareness so we can all start catching those hidden thought patterns and correcting them. I don't think there's a right and wrong way to address the issues, and it wouldn't matter anyway. People are going to do what they're going to do. Activism looks different for every activist in various situations.... But it's interesting when people who don't experience racism criticize people in the trenches working to dissolve racism have opinions on how to do that.

You could look at it as a personal attack and being condemned. Or you can look at it as being enlightened to a reality that other people experience which you don't and didn't know about until now, so you can understand and help change that reality for the sake of global welfare and human harmony. Either way, your viewpoint affects your reality and also others'. If you look at it as being condemned, that's exactly how you'll feel. And that will affect your environment.

Now I've got some really good news for you. And I'm not selling anything! Bringing awareness to an issue is not the same as condemning people. Sure, we're all complicit in racism to some degree but nobody gave us a choice when we were born into this socioeconomic hierarchy. (And who knows if we didn't set this whole joint up ourselves before erasing our memory and incarnating into it?) From my viewpoint, there's simply no reason to blame anyone (for racism in general) especially since feeling guilt and shame only propagates more racism as that guilt and shame is projected onto people of color, so we don't have to face it in our own self. But non-POC's tend to take the POC struggle and erase it by making it about them (no matter how it's communicated) and then they need someone to blame who isn't them.

If you really, really have to blame something, don't blame the victims, don't blame the allies or the activists, blame the system matrix. Or blame racism itself which creates all the broken relationships, violence and suffering. You just might want to watch out for that false duality paradigm I mentioned earlier: "Racism = bad and non-racism = good. Therefore I'm not racist because I'm not a bad person, or I don't want to be perceived as a bad person."

Thank you for your post. Smiles!

[Intuitive Fish]

I'm not your tutor, pal. .

I'll tell you what.


You keep on thinking what you think (with apparently no evidence) and let the adults have a discussion here eh?

I'm certainly not covering this topic for my own edification,, mostly it's to illustrate how people who have the beliefs like you do have been manipulated into it and how this whole racing this is a distraction (it's not the issue it's played out to be).

Straw man me all you want (I assume you don't know what a straw man is: change my argument to one more easily defeat-able.. like "there is no racism" .... it's really a pathetic manipulative logical fallacy.. very irksome), pat your self on the back and confer with your echo chamber all you want, until you come up with actual proof (for you and others) of a thing, what are you actually believing in, the personality of the person who convinced you??

Are you telling me you see rampant racism in the Pacific North West?

Cool sauce, bro. Straw man, logical fallacy.... You forgot ad hominems. I'm sure I had some ad homs and other hipster terms commonly used to automatically dismiss what a person says without considering them because they're afraid of human intimacy and especially intimacy with their own thoughts.

For me, this is not an argument, so I'm not sure why you're applying debate rules here. There's no debate in my mind that groups of people are treated with hostility just because their skin color isn't "white." I'm simply one soul transferring thoughts to other souls saying, hey everyone, there are these souls here who are suffering and maybe we could help them out and help each other figure this out.

Now if you're not interested in or ready for that human act of kindness, that is perfectly fine. It's already happening with or without your involvement. But the extensive and elaborate mental gymnastics in this thread used to avoid even considering the issue is nothing short of amazing. I'm impressed! Those mental gymnastics look tiring but I'd say nothing more about them if they weren't unknowingly propagating dangerous racist themes. You want proof of racism? Read your own posts, bro.

I wasn't planning to find myself in the position of defending entire human races on a forum of intelligent, consciously aware people. And I'm wondering how that disparity is even possible. I don't have an answer for that, except that the waking up process can be hard. It automatically implies change, and change can be scary and traumatic even if its beneficial. Those are actually legitimate reasons, now that I think about it.

But I have another hypothesis/theory and it goes back to what I first mentioned. There seems to be nothing so terrifying as human intimacy. If we were to let go of all those internalized discriminatory thought processes that keep us divided from other people, we're all going to end up mighty close to each other. You're going to have to actually step outside of this forum. We're ALL going to have to live and enjoy life together, stop using each other, actually feel each other's traumas and joys, call out each other's BS and be interested in other people's histories, cultures and experiences.... Because we're all interconnected, we might even get close to nature and animals too, as well as the planet and the eternal omniverse. Yikes! But I'm not sure why real, authentic soul-connections are so terrifying because I can't think of a better reason to exist. Can you?

[Intuitive Fish]

This site documents eyewitness videos, testimonies, police cam footage and police reports which expose police brutality. The sheer volume of police crimes against Black people reveals just how prevalent this issue is, and how much MSM and even alt media works to keep it mostly hidden from you.

Warning: raw graphic violence and resulting heartbreak.

https://photographyisnotacrime.com/2016/09/22/st-louis-cop-charged-murder-video-footage-shows-planting-gun-unarmed-driver/ (St. Louis Cop Charged with Murder After Video Footage Shows Him Planting Gun on Unarmed Driver - PINAC News)

Here's an example of recent police shooting of Keith Lamont Scott:

jiH-DKZCxgA

[Sean]

Not gonna make a long post here, but, as a black man myself..What popped into my head yesterday was, "feared on the one hand, pitied on the other, but never being considered actually REAL". As I read some the comments in this thread, I see so much ignorance, denialism of my direct life experience, and (intuitive fish, this last bit is directed at one of your posts) toxic paternalism.

This comes down to, really, one thing: The perceived value of a " black life". The perception is that it has little value. That's why its so easy for some of you to deny the deep institutional racism that exists in America, why you back the police no matter how many unarmed black men they shoot and kill. Some of you live in a "bubble of whiteness" that allows you to act like this isn't really happening. Well, it is. Really. Its not just economics. "Racism on both sides" is a Dodge, because, generally speaking, black racism has little power/effect. The power in America is disproportionally distributed outside of black america. I won't bother to refute every point I see here..

Bottom line: We are humans who are seen as sub-humans. Our dehumanization was by design. So much easier to kill us, and BE SUPPORTED FOR DOING SO,if you can convince white america that killing black people is akin to putting down a rabid dog.

I'm an actor, a VO artist, a blues harmonica player, an empath, and a GA PILOT, for ****'s sake.

But to most of white america, I'm just a ****** looking to steal, or rape their wife/daughter.

Some of you are really sick.

[ulli]

Not gonna make a long post here, but, as a black man myself..What popped into my head yesterday was, "feared on the one hand, pitied in the other, but never being considered actually REAL". As I read some the comments in this thread, I see so much ignorance, denialism of my direct life experience, and toxic paternalism.

This comes down to, really, one thing: The perceived value of a " black life". The perception is that it has little value. That's why its so easy for some of you to deny the deep institutional racism that exists in America, why you back the police no matter how many unarmed black men they shoot and kill. Some of you live in a "bubble of whiteness" that allows you to act like this isn't really happening. Well, it is. Really. Its not just economics. "Racism on both sides" is a Dodge, because, generally speaking, black racism has little power/effect. The power in America is disproportionally distributed outside of black america. I won't bother to refute every point I see here..

Bottom line: We are humans who are seen as sub-humans. Our dehumanization was by design. So much easier to kill us, and BE SUPPORTED FOR DOING SO,if you can convince white america that killing black people is akin to putting down a rabid dog.

I'm an actor, a VO artist, a blues harmonica player, an empath, and a GA PILOT, for ****'s sake.

But to most of white america, I'm just a ****** looking to steal, or rape their wife/daughter.

Some of you are really sick.

It is built into the imperialist white culture, to never feel guilty about the atrocities they commit.
The same bullying culture that destroys foreign governments and kills their civilians with the excuse of defending "our freedom".
Only when there is a total decimation of that culture, the way Germany was decimated by the Allies, can such a meme as collective guilt be introduced into the culture.

Meanwhile the freedoms the American way of life offers will continue to produce the inevitable results of people's choices...more and more selfish arrogance at one end of the stick of choice, but also some great altruism among those who decide not to turn to that path of divisiveness and bullying and covering-up of their deep insecurities behind the facade of superior strength, at the other end.
Because the reality is that on this planet we are all equally beggars.
The reality is also that at the soul level the one who is mistreated will shine brighter than the one who commits the atrocity.
Some of us whites have met those angelic shining lights, and more so in the black community than the white world.

[TargeT]

Cool sauce, bro. Straw man, logical fallacy.... You forgot ad hominems. I'm sure I had some ad homs and other hipster terms commonly used to automatically dismiss what a person says without considering them because they're afraid of human intimacy and especially intimacy with their own thoughts.

Yes, that is the purpose of logical fallacies, to dismiss what a person is saying... thats why I pointed out the ones I thought I saw (I think mike may have brushed against Ad Hominem when he mentioned me and hitler youth together, but I don't think you did)


For me, this is not an argument, so I'm not sure why you're applying debate rules here. There's no debate in my mind that groups of people are treated with hostility just because their skin color isn't "white." I'm simply one soul transferring thoughts to other souls saying, hey everyone, there are these souls here who are suffering and maybe we could help them out and help each other figure this out.

Now if you're not interested in or ready for that human act of kindness, that is perfectly fine. It's already happening with or without your involvement. But the extensive and elaborate mental gymnastics in this thread used to avoid even considering the issue is nothing short of amazing. I'm impressed! Those mental gymnastics look tiring but I'd say nothing more about them if they weren't unknowingly propagating dangerous racist themes. You want proof of racism? Read your own posts, bro.

I wasn't planning to find myself in the position of defending entire human races on a forum of intelligent, consciously aware people. And I'm wondering how that disparity is even possible. I don't have an answer for that, except that the waking up process can be hard. It automatically implies change, and change can be scary and traumatic even if its beneficial. Those are actually legitimate reasons, now that I think about it.

But I have another hypothesis/theory and it goes back to what I first mentioned. There seems to be nothing so terrifying as human intimacy. If we were to let go of all those internalized discriminatory thought processes that keep us divided from other people, we're all going to end up mighty close to each other. You're going to have to actually step outside of this forum. We're ALL going to have to live and enjoy life together, stop using each other, actually feel each other's traumas and joys, call out each other's BS and be interested in other people's histories, cultures and experiences.... Because we're all interconnected, we might even get close to nature and animals too, as well as the planet and the eternal omniverse. Yikes! But I'm not sure why real, authentic soul-connections are so terrifying because I can't think of a better reason to exist. Can you?


I love communicating in text, it's so efficient!(?)!.

I have no idea what your talking about right now, it's fun to read, but I'm not sure how it applies to the original post of this thread.


This site documents eyewitness videos, testimonies, police cam footage and police reports which expose police brutality. The sheer volume of police crimes against Black people reveals just how prevalent this issue is, and how much MSM and even alt media works to keep it mostly hidden from you.


I agree, here's the ugly truth:
http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/1638F/production/_90432019_us_officer_killings_624.png

Doesn't look so racist to me... maybe racist against whites?

When the crime rates are considered, I'd say the white deaths are over represented here...

This is NOT a race issue, this is a POLICE OUT OF CONTROL issue.

If anything I think this is a "leftist" issue, not a race issue... that's where every single mentality I see as toxic comes from and is spread from..

This is what you get with that leftist mentality:
uGRFEiLBZCE

Racism against white people openly embraced by modern culture.
ZpnyoffFloY

[Basho]

Some people get the concept easily, like math (though I've always had to struggle with that one, I know a few people that take to it like a fish to water).

This guy has the right idea:
https://i.imgur.com/nOOSeUP.png

last line = important

That's a great statement in that photo but how about changing the last line from you're an American.. To you're a human being, act like one.

The you're American line just negates the whole sentiment & creates yet another division.

[Sierra]

Because the reality is that on this planet we are all equally beggars.
The reality is also that at the soul level the one who is mistreated will shine brighter than the one who commits the atrocity.
Some of us whites have met those angelic shining lights, and more so in the black community than the white world.

True. I grew up in one of the most exclusive neighborhoods in San Francisco, three ambassador families (Spain, Germany and Yugoslavia) lived up the block, and around the corner. Much later in life, I lived in East Palo Alto, a black community. I'd take the East Palo Alto neighbors (despite some scary people down the street living in a penal half way house) over the Forest Hill neighbors any day of the week. They were NEIGHBORS, in the original sense of the word, not just occupants of the houses around us.

TargeT, your repeated assertions that more whites are killed by police than blacks makes no sense. (Per your graph on page seven of this thread: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?93518-Charlotte-Riots...-NOT-protests....WTF-is-going-on-with-the-brewing-Race-war&p=1102590&viewfull=1#post1102590) 494 whites to 258 blacks, when blacks comprise 15% of the population?

We see in the news, white males commit crimes of rage that take out multiples of people, whether family or fellow elementary, high school or college students, girlfriends etc. Blacks can be killed walking while black, driving while black, hands in the air, shot in the back, proven to be unarmed after the killing is done.

There is no comparison. It is racism.

[Mike]

i think what this thread could use is a little comic relief. this clip is great. less than 3 mins long. have a listen.
7LyqBb6HBSk


workingactor, this next one is for you. i think youll see the humor there. i see what youre saying, i really do, but you have to appreciate the fact that youre treading into very subtle territory there. there is a certain element within the black community that complains (justifiably!) that they get no white support; but on the flip side, there is another element that feels condescended towards or pitied whenever they get that support. so for a lot of us whites that want to offer support, we can't win! anyway, bill burr explains this situation quite hilariously in this clip.

8h5kg5f8Im0

[Atlas]

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/44908464/avalon/divs/blackvswhite.jpg

Racism Destroyed In One Minute!
HIi_sUEpQOc

[TargeT]

TargeT, your repeated assertions that more whites are killed by police than blacks makes no sense. (Per your graph on page seven of this thread: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?93518-Charlotte-Riots...-NOT-protests....WTF-is-going-on-with-the-brewing-Race-war&p=1102590&viewfull=1#post1102590) 494 whites to 258 blacks, [b]when blacks comprise 15% of the population?[We see in the news, white males commit crimes of rage that take out multiples of people, whether family or fellow elementary, high school or college students, girlfriends etc. Blacks can be killed walking while black, driving while black, hands in the air, shot in the back, proven to be unarmed after the killing is done.
There is no comparison. It is racism.

If you are basing anything off the "news" then that is exactly part of what I'm talking about.
How much of your own research on this have you done, have you looked into the numbers from local counties in the south, ? how about Texas?

5 min, should answer most of the questions on this:
UQCQFH5wOJo
There are highly highly different cultures represented in these numbers, if you have never been into a "ghetto" or "projects" settings it's hard to explain to you.

These communities live in a very different way than most people are used to, and violence is a big part of it.

[Atlas]

Is she black? Is she White? No, she is...
http://www.oddities123.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/indian-albinos-6.jpg
...Indian!

Indian-origin lawyer shoots at 9 in US, killed by police (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/nri/us-canada-news/Indian-origin-lawyer-shoots-at-9-in-US-killed-by-police/articleshow/54538321.cms)

An Indian-origin lawyer with apparent Nazi sympathies went on an early morning rampage in US' Houston city, shooting at nine people on Monday before he was killed by police, according to authorities.

[T Smith]

This comes down to, really, one thing: The perceived value of a " black life". The perception is that it has little value....

Bottom line: We are humans who are seen as sub-humans. Our dehumanization was by design. So much easier to kill us, and BE SUPPORTED FOR DOING SO,if you can convince white america that killing black people is akin to putting down a rabid dog.

I'm an actor, a VO artist, a blues harmonica player, an empath, and a GA PILOT, for ****'s sake.

But to most of white america, I'm just a ****** looking to steal, or rape their wife/daughter.

Some of you are really sick.

This is a very troubling and unsettling perspective...on so many levels.

I think we all live in our own bubbles, to some degree. Existing in my own bubble, I accept that I may be ignorant and naive, but I have to say with some degree of force that I do not know one White person who, given a truth serum and confessing what they really think in the deep dark recesses of their souls, would ever submit that Black lives have little value or that Blacks are sub-humans... that's heavy. And that's not to say I do not know some White people who use racial slurs or who are insensitive to racial plight or generally clueless and unconscious altogether, but this is quite a bit different from the conviction that White people generally see Blacks as sub-human. For sure there may be some White people (and people of all colors) who may think so, but I have to believe these cases are exceptions--and rare exceptions; they are not the norm.

What is most troubling about your post is I believe you 100%. And I am troubled by the prospect that your reality may be closer to truth than my own reality.

I will only add that, aside from your direct personal experience that leads you to this conclusion, bear in mind there is very sophisticated social engineering afoot designed to instill distrust, suspicion, and division among all us plebs, (Whites, Blacks, Hispanics, Asians alike) that may be distorting all our realities, and all our bubbles, the objective of which I still have some trouble grasping in full. But the program is obvious. It's about control and enslavement. And you are right, it is all by design. Moreover, at the risk of being too blunt and insensitive, I wouldn't flatter yourself too much. If Blacks were the majority group among our multicultural population that seemingly requires management, control, enslavement, and ultimately, culling, you better believe both the majority and the minority groups (whatever their colors) would maintain inculcated perceptions accordingly.

To provide a concrete example of how social engineering plays out and why, we all know the catalyst of the Charlotte "protests" was a police shooting of a Black man. The details are cloudy, i.e., we may never know whether this shooting was justified or not (it probably wasn't), but regardless, the perception is the shooting was motivated by the very dynamic you describe in your post, hence the protests. The irony is the cop was Black himself, so the dynamic you describe cannot be attributed to White people alone (more aptly to the White-dominated power structure, of which the Black cop is part, if we must assign blame to racial divisions). On the very same day of the Charlotte shooting, however, five White people across the country were shot dead by cops in five separate unsung incidents, some of which were presumably the result of excessive force, yet we hear nothing about this police brutality (whether justified or not), nor are these executions controversial in any way. They are non events. And the reason they are non events is because we are all on a need-to-know basis. It doesn't fit the narrative, nor the agenda. Nor does it provide any valuable stimulus to the desired responses all, hence we don't need to know. This type of thing happens all the time.

My only point here has nothing whatsoever to do with race; it is to point out that much of our "understanding" of reality, including our very perceptions of race, are influenced via mediated experience, which is very easy to weaponize by those who control the narrative and therefore become "engineers" of sorts who shape our very understandings of reality. It is not an exact science; it is an art. These synthetic perceptions may even be powerful enough to lead some people to believe most White people think Blacks are sub-human, and others that most Blacks are ******* looking to steal, or rape their wife/daughters....

I don't know the answer; but discourse is always good.

[Intuitive Fish]

Hi Elizabeth, welcome to the forum. Your post is very thoughtful and thought provoking.


While we’re all being played with behind-the-scenes “divide and conquer” tactics, what exactly is dividing and conquering us?



It's really very simple. Who is conquering us? Social engineers erecting a fascist neo-feudalism-sociopolitical global order, which includes a eugenics agenda and a multitude of social programs designed to dumb down, impoverish, and equalize the masses (regardless of color) and render them manageable and subservient on a macro scale. This is a program of equalized slavery. And one very easy to sell to a social order structured by stratified classes and a tarnished history of racial inequality.

T Smith, sorry for not replying to your post sooner. I sort of have to wait until these responses "come to me" if you catch my drift (which is often in the middle of the night while I'm trying to sleep... grrr...) You're exemplifying one of the most deceptive racist beliefs which has played out over and over in this thread through various forms. Hiding it in elaborate intellectual exercise or emotional appeals doesn't make it any less deceptive or damaging. This belief assumes we live in a world of equality; therefore, the suffering of white people is equal to the suffering of people of color.

Okay. So, let's remove POC's from this scenario for a moment and come at this from a different angle. Let's say you're a middle class white person. I'm not assuming you're either one of those. I'm just using this as a hypothetical example. Do you think as a middle class white person, you would have equal power and privilege as say, the Rothschilds? Are you able to influence governments, media, and the economy so that you can benefit from the masses without any concern for them? Probably not, right?

Now think about what that means for you. You're likely to be a slave to your job because you can't survive otherwise. Which means your job tells you where to go to school, how much you get paid, when you take vacations, determines the amount of taxes you pay, where you live, what type of house you live in, your neighborhood, the vehicle you commute to work with... and all the hoops you have to jump through in order to keep your job or move up the corporate ladder. Meanwhile, the Rothschilds are enjoying luxury, comfort, prestige, freedom, travel, higher intel, and lots of time to develop their next social engineering scheme....

Now I'm oversimplifying and generalizing for the sake of clarity, but hold that difference of equality between you and the Rothschilds, and apply that to you and people of color. It's the same scenario, except now you're in the position of the Rothschild, relatively speaking. Black people (since that's the particular group we're talking about in this thread) experience all the enslavement you do, but are more likely to live in a nation of poverty, live in poverty, be suspended from school, not get hired at a job they prefer and are skilled at, get paid less, fall to illness, unable to pay the cost of medicine, unable to get their voter ID, be profiled and pulled over by police, harassed by police, be arrested, lose a court case, be imprisoned, serve a longer sentence, and be killed without a trial than you as a white person.

It's a lot easier to see inequality when you're suffering from it. But why is it so hard to see inequality when you benefit from it? Because you don't want to give up your privileges of course. Plus your life sucks too. But systemic privilege and power means you've been given a VIP pass and cheat sheet in the game of life and this creates suffering for others. You're also conditioned to protect those privileges at all cost and resist anything perceived as a threat by using your platform of entitlement to destroy a perceived threat mentally, emotionally and physically.... But if you could see the prison you live in, you'd probably want to give up those puppet privileges or use them to dismantle the system because they're nothing more than bribes to maintain your own enslavement. Black activists aren't fighting a racial war. They're protesting the institutional system. You should join them.

Plus, the macrocosm has a symbiotic relationship with the micro. If you live in a system of slavery which creates broken and toxic relationships, you're less likely to experience fulfilling relationships in your personal life as well. So there's your motive to wake up and do the work of dismantling the hierarchical system you both suffer and benefit from and which creates slavery for all, starting with supporting people who systemically suffer from it the most. You want to start with people who suffer the most because you possess more power, privilege, access to resources and therefore ability and responsibility to do so, if they want support, and in the way they ask.

"The people at the top of a society almost always feel themselves to be genuinely superior to the rest, not just luckily born, and to have earned their place." - Nicholas Lehmann

[Intuitive Fish]

Here is an interesting, very disgusting piece of suppressed history:


IRISH: THE FORGOTTEN WHITE SLAVES (http://settingrecordstraight.blogspot.fr/2015/03/irish-forgotten-white-slaves.html)

Monday, March 16, 2015



https://www.sott.net/image/s17/346448/large/irish_slaves.jpg


They came as slaves: human cargo transported on British ships bound for the Americas. They were shipped by the hundreds of thousands and included men, women, and even the youngest of children.

Whenever they rebelled or even disobeyed an order, they were punished in the harshest ways. Slave owners would hang their human property by their hands and set their hands or feet on fire as one form of punishment. Some were burned alive and had their heads placed on pikes in the marketplace as a warning to other captives.



Another premise commonly used to justify racism against people of color is "Something, something Irish slaves." Or the Italians, Jews, Catholics, etc.

First of all, it's interesting to see people use this scenario because in their minds the white people story takes precedence over the POC experience. White people are more valuable to society and therefore, a relatively rare white occurrence is more valuable and can therefore be used to erase POC's and fuel the white agenda.

Secondly, believe it or not, the Irish weren't considered white. (Remember "white people" is a concept or construct and even some races of color are included in it.) There's a book called How the Irish Became White by Noel Ignatiev which explains how they assimilated into "White America" by supporting anti-black unions, etc... and were then able to join certain societies such as the KKK. Same with Italians and Catholics who also assimilated by supporting white standards. So that's why they're considered "white" today.

That's not to disregard the suffering of the Irish. They suffered horrifically at the founding of this country and they're still oppressed today in the UK. I believe they have the highest poverty rate there. But their oppression is more along the lines of xenophobia than racism, and shouldn't be used to dismiss other people's oppression anyway which is still happening around the globe.

The main point is that "white" isn't a race or even a skin color. "White" is a mind control concept which inherently breeds racism and all kinds of other hierarchical divisions.

[Intuitive Fish]

Not gonna make a long post here, but, as a black man myself..What popped into my head yesterday was, "feared on the one hand, pitied on the other, but never being considered actually REAL". As I read some the comments in this thread, I see so much ignorance, denialism of my direct life experience, and (intuitive fish, this last bit is directed at one of your posts) toxic paternalism.

Noted. Thank you for sharing.



This comes down to, really, one thing: The perceived value of a " black life". The perception is that it has little value. That's why its so easy for some of you to deny the deep institutional racism that exists in America, why you back the police no matter how many unarmed black men they shoot and kill. Some of you live in a "bubble of whiteness" that allows you to act like this isn't really happening. Well, it is. Really. Its not just economics. "Racism on both sides" is a Dodge, because, generally speaking, black racism has little power/effect. The power in America is disproportionally distributed outside of black america. I won't bother to refute every point I see here..

Bottom line: We are humans who are seen as sub-humans. Our dehumanization was by design. So much easier to kill us, and BE SUPPORTED FOR DOING SO,if you can convince white america that killing black people is akin to putting down a rabid dog.

I'm an actor, a VO artist, a blues harmonica player, an empath, and a GA PILOT, for ****'s sake.

But to most of white america, I'm just a ****** looking to steal, or rape their wife/daughter.

Some of you are really sick.

[bluestflame]

https://scontent.fmel3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14492575_1103255269724055_4617353917370720727_n.jpg?oh=c154f50627bd06c6a7864c2cbe364e02&oe=58696A44 just a reminder

[Hervé]

[...]
The main point is that "white" isn't a race or even a skin color. "White" is a mind control concept which inherently breeds racism and all kinds of other hierarchical divisions.

Right... the "white/blue" blooded bags of bones claiming to descend from some "gods (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?38941-Biglino-s-Unexpected-Bible-Translating-it-literally-UFO-s&p=1090325&viewfull=1#post1090325)" to rule over the Gentiles, Goyim, Infidels, Miscreants, Serfs, soul-less Sheeple, Zombies, PLFs, Organic Portals, etc.:


‘Kill the worthless dog’: Saudi princess ‘abuses’ Paris decorator, Twitter users enraged (https://www.rt.com/news/361061-saudi-princess-paris-decorator/)
(https://www.rt.com/news/361061-saudi-princess-paris-decorator/)
Published time: 29 Sep, 2016 12:32
Edited time: 29 Sep, 2016 13:11
Get short URL (http://on.rt.com/7qlh)


https://cdn.rt.com/files/2016.09/original/57ecdba7c4618800088b46ab.jpg
File photo © Fahad Shadeed / Reuters


A Saudi Arabian princess sparked a tsunami of angry remarks online, after it became known that she had allegedly made a Parisian decorator kiss her feet and told her bodyguards to “maim” and “kill” the worker.

The incident took place this past summer, but only became known to the public this week, after the victim of the alleged royal assault filed an official complaint with the French authorities.

The man, whose name also remains unknown, claims that he was invited to the princess’s residence in the prestigious 16th district of Paris to do some basic redecorating, Le Point newspaper reported (http://www.lepoint.fr/faits-divers/une-princesse-saoudienne-ordonne-de-frapper-et-tuer-un-artisan-parisien-28-09-2016-2071859_2627.php) on Tuesday.

Upon arrival, the man started taking pictures of the room he was assigned to decorate, which is a standard procedure aimed at being able to return the furniture back to where it had been after the work is completed.

The princess, however, allegedly accused the decorator of planning to sell the pictures to the media and lost her temper. According to the victim, two of the royal’s armed bodyguards grabbed him, tied his hands together, hit him in the head and made him kneel and kiss the woman’s toes.

The decorator also said the princess ordered them to “kill the dog, he does not deserve to live,” referring to the man.


via GIPHY (https://giphy.com/gifs/off-with-his-head-5qTamQs4OhanK)


The decorator says the ordeal lasted some four hours before a third bodyguard arrived, took a copy of his ID and kicked him out, allegedly telling him never to return to district 16.

The man later asked for payment – some US $21,000 – for the work he’d already done, and for his equipment, which was still at the apartment. He allegedly never received a reply, however. He also reported the incident to the French police, showing bruises on his head, which he said were caused by the attack. The Paris prosecutor has not yet indicated whether the man’s complaint will be investigated.


L'important ‏@Limportant_fr (https://twitter.com/Limportant_fr) Sep 28 (https://twitter.com/Limportant_fr/status/781355313979072512) Une princesse saoudienne ordonne de frapper et tuer un artisan parisien http://limportant.fr/infos-societe/9/328776 … (https://t.co/DZ4eQUcMU0)


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ctfug_kWYAQFyeA.jpg

15 retweets 4 likes

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/686911911498235905/vdoRTB-3_bigger.jpg sylviegorette ‏@sylviegorette (https://twitter.com/sylviegorette)

@Limportant_fr (https://twitter.com/Limportant_fr) Elle se croit où cette pétasse ? et personne ne va rien lui dire évidement !!While some commentators on Twitter merely expressed hope that “justice surpasses the diplomatic barriers” and the unnamed multimillionaire daughter of the former Saudi King Khaled will be punished – although doubting that “anyone will tell her off for what she did” – the majority of the remarks were far from diplomatic.

People offered a number of measures to “teach the little princess-tyrant manners,” such as deporting her or seizing the apartment where the incident took place.

Many said that the fact the alleged events took place in France is “frightful,” resorting to sarcasm with a post that “All is well... France will soon be a colony of crazy Allah-followers.” While others said that “these Saudi ways, their human rights record and selling arms to and supporting ISIS [Islamic State/IS]” will keep being ignored for their oil.

==================================================

Yep... give power to individuals like that Victoria "F**k the EU" Nuland or a Samantha Power...

[Atlas]

Saudi princess ‘abuses’ Paris decorator
Saudi Princess Arrested In Orlando (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/princess-arrested-in-orlando/) (2001)

She was arrested on charges of beating Memet Ismiyati, her Indonesian maid. Neighbors called police after Ismiyati, 36, ran crying from the apartment she shared with the princess. She told deputies al-Saud beat her, hit her head against a wall and pushed her down a flight of stairs. [...] Investigators said she stole $6,000 worth of electronics equipment and furniture from her former chauffeur.

In 1995, another Saudi princess was accused of beating her servants while visiting Orlando. Princess Maha Al-Sudairi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maha_al-Sudairi), wife of the heir to the Saudi throne, reportedly beat a servant suspected of stealing $200,000 in cash and jewelry in front of off-duty deputies providing her security.

[Billy Vasiliadis]

Intuitive fish, your posts are making me feel awful......and that is probably a good thing.

[TargeT]

Intuitive fish, your posts are making me feel awful......and that is probably a good thing.

It certainly is what the "program" is suppose to do, especially if you aren't doing your own research.

[ThePythonicCow]

Doesn't look so racist to me... maybe racist against whites?
If some stat's don't show racism, but many honorable people report experiencing it, in various wide spread and long standing ways, then perhaps the racism is there, but just doesn't show in those particular stats. Given that most such stats, on a wide variety of matters, are cooked or selected to make a point, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if such stats didn't turn out to be the last word on this, or most any other matter of importance.

[TargeT]

Doesn't look so racist to me... maybe racist against whites?
If some stat's don't show racism, but many honorable people report experiencing it, in various wide spread and long standing ways, then perhaps the racism is there, but just doesn't show in those particular stats. Given that most such stats, on a wide variety of matters, are cooked or selected to make a point, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if such stats didn't turn out to be the last word on this, or most any other matter of importance.

the stats support reality, which I am trying to explain (I'm sure that some small percentage of cases were racially influenced, but I doubt many).

I live and work in the communities I'm talking about here, black crime is disproportionate because of the culture that exists in many of those neighborhoods encourages it, these crime stats aren't due to racism they are due to the cultures involved.. the "slums" where Puerto Rican's live are VASTLY different than the the west Indian's (aka, Caribbean blacks) in the projects who have adopted American black culture & listen to ganster rap, sell drugs and "act hard" all the time..

Yes I live in the 3rd highest murder rate in the world (that stat seems to shifts from year to year... top 10 easy) but it's (almost) all "project on project" crime.. aside from that people out side those communities don't get bothered (well, don't get "murdered", robberies etc still happen).

There is a perverted concept of "honor" that will lead to violence SO FAST it's amazing.

I've had to help put horses down that were hacked at with a machete after a confrontation over "who started a race first", once that "honor" is infringed on there is almost nothing to stop the situation from turning violent in one way or another.


Average income here is 20,000$ a year... I Live in the example of what we are talking about here.... there IS a problem, but it's not police and it's not racism... it's this prevalent "thug" culture that (I think) is fallen back on when there is nothing else to replace it (Plus it's COMPLETELY glorified by modern media) & an EASY way to "get rich" due to the drug war.

It may be a systemic problem, but it's not racism; it's pure culture.

"white trash" (funny how that's totally acceptable to use... isn't it?) communities have a similar issues. With poverty, violence is a ready fall back and crime is seen as "inevitable" due to that "trailer park" culture, I've seen what those areas are like also.. it's not too different, just a bit less violent over all.

Don't see that in the Hispanic communities, I grew up in their neighborhoods and while they had their own elements (Latin Kings etc..) the family structure was so strong and parental involvement so present that these things didn't have the same opportunities to crop up.

I haven't spent any time in other minority communities, but I'd imagine they have something similar to the Hispanic communities... a different culture; one that supports personal pride and success.

This really does a fairly good job of breaking numbers down, but numbers alone don't tell the tale, you have to understand the culture of these neighborhoods...

UQCQFH5wOJo

[ThePythonicCow]

I live and work in the communities I'm talking about here, black crime is disproportionate because of the culture that exists in many of those neighborhoods encourages, these crime stats aren't due to racism they are due to the cultures involved.
What I'm getting from your posts and other posts above is that the world is not homogenous. I trust that you, as an honorable person, are reporting what you observe, and I trust that others, in other communities and locations, are reporting what they observe. Even two people, standing side by side, watching the same thing happen, may see it through two very different, both honorable and perceptive, pairs of eyes.

If an owner of horses consistently mistreats and disrespects those horses, then those horses will become nasty and untrustworthy.

The mistreatment of whole classes, races, genders, etc, etc and the differences in cultural and community norms, are both long standing in this human civlization. After a point, it becomes pretty much impossible to say which is to blame for which ... humanity is an amazingly convoluted mix of the divine and the disgusting.

So ... what I'm trying to say is: It might be worthwhile to try to avoid appearing to dismiss what someone else reports of they experiences, on the grounds that you have experienced otherwise, and even have stats that are consistent with your experience.

How can we work, individually and together, to clean up some of this mess we humans find ourselves in?

P.S. == after watching the first little bit of the video in your post above ... all of this is complicated by the use of racial distrust as one of the many ways to "divide and conquer" humanity, by the Elite Bastards, who likely have co-opted the Black Lives Matter movement, as they have so many other movements.

[Sierra]

If you are basing anything off the "news" then that is exactly part of what I'm talking about.

I base my comment, on the graph you displayed. I pointed out that the graph told a lie. To compare 500 whites killed by cops to 250 blacks killed by cops, when blacks make up 15% of the population, is statistical manipulation. It paints a false picture of reality.


How much of your own research on this have you done, have you looked into the numbers from local counties in the south, ? how about Texas? I don't know Texas, I know California. I am old TargeT. I saw when a black man (a janitor even, my mother explained to me) could buy a modest house in S.E. Los Angeles (which at the time was a safe community), and raise a family as the sole breadwinner . I saw Watts explode. I saw the Black Panthers form. I saw racial tensions in San Francisco where I grew up. I saw white punks in my HS, carrying pistols. I saw me crashing into a phalanx of black girls in a high school corridor, unaware of the racial epithets scrawled on the walls of the HS the night before, laughing, apologizing profusely, met with grins of relief.

Getting down to personal experience, I lived and worked in E. Palo Alto, one of the few places in the Palo Alto/Stanford University area where I could afford a place of my own (which was critical to my mental health). The Murder Capital of the West until Oakland took over the title. East PA was a predominantly black community, where the servants of the Palo Alto, Stanford, Atherton, Menlo Park residents lived. The community was so poor, they could not anchor a Safeway in their town.

I lived there years, seven I think, long enough to see the cycle, the rise and fall of violence. The East PA police force consisted of 24 men, eight men per shift for a community of roughly 25,000 people. When it got rough, the surrounding police forces of Redwood City, Menlo Park, Atherton, Palo Alto, Mountain View, San Carlos would loan men to help police the town.

The black community's most profitable business area at the time, was Whiskey Gulch, a one block freeway exit that merged onto University Avenue that went straight to Stanford University. (Palo Alto by law, is (was?) dry until you get to Whiskey Gulch, which is where the university students would buy their booze.).

Palo Alto tried to steal Whiskey Gulch, and the adjoining patch of dirt. When E. PA won the lawsuit, they tore down Whiskey Gulch and built a Four Seasons Hotel there. (I'm highlighting University Ave, Palo Alto, and the Four Seasons Hotel by the 101 freeway.)

http://projectavalon.net/Sierra_map_1a.gif

Can you believe it, rich as Croesus is Palo Alto, with a University, an extremely high end shopping center anchored by Saks Fifth, Neiman Marcus, Bloomingdales, Nordstrom, SLAC directly up the hill, SRI down the road, a downtown where at the time, a storefront could rent for 10,000.00 a month, Stanford Hospital, a huge medical community etc. in other words, bags and bags of money, tried to rip off a poor black community. Pure. Unadulterated. Greed. A lot of lawyers in Palo Alto.

After I left, IKEA, Home Depot, anchored big boxes in E. PA, creating their first tax base. There is now a Nordstrom's Rack I see, from the map.

http://projectavalon.net/Sierra_map_2a.gif

I assume, given the tight, tight housing market of Silicon Valley that the housing prices in E. PA have shot out of sight, and unless in possession of inherited property, most blacks have been priced out of the area.


... if you have never been into a "ghetto" or "projects" settings it's hard to explain to you. These communities live in a very different way than most people are used to, and violence is a big part of it.

I do know, despite your assumption I don't. I sure as hell do not know the depth of experience of one born and raised in a ghetto, daily suffering dirty looks, provocation, mistreatment even as a tiny child, but I know what I saw.


If friends came over for New Year's Eve, they'd hide in the stairwell of our apartment while David and I would cackle madly into our champagne, waiting for the elephant gun to climax and silence the crescendo of firepower at midnight
Sending people knocking on our door in the night in search of the drug dealer to the matching building next door
Circling the craps game in the parking garage of my apt building
Circling the drunks in the parking garage of my apt building
Homeless, and crippled young man wildly lurching awake, grabbing the hood of my truck, as I start out for work in the morning
Shattered glass littering the street in front of the penal halfway house down the street, the pack of ex-cons with bats
Cop in front, black guy playing "Cop Killer" on his boom box strolling back and forth. Slowly. He'd never get away with it today
Watching my husband put himself in harm's way to help a woman screaming, a man raging in agony in front of our apt
10 year old neighborhood psychopath on his bike, oldest and coldest eyes, always circling, always cruising for an opportunity as people came home from work.


And I still thought they were the best neighbors. Better than lawyers, doctors, and CEOs for sure. Just had to keep an eye peeled, and not be stupid, same as anywhere.

Sorry. I don't like the 1%. Shove a shiv into you over nothing. Not human. You think I digress?

I don't.

You see entrenched polarity, look for the third party. In our case, the driver is a history of slavery, brought to us courtesy of the English ruling class, feeding their 17th, 18th, 19th century sources of obscene wealth via sugar and coffee plantations worked by slaves. Slavery requires EXTREME mental gymnastics, gross distortion of human empathy, to justify such egregious behavior. It requires separation into human and not human.

*The poorest nation on Earth? The one nation on Earth, able to throw out the colonial bastards that enslaved them. To this day, no investment, no trade. Now that is racism. Centuries of entrenched, resentful, racism still driving the market. (Think Cuba, carefully preserving their 1950 retro cars, because there is still no trade after 60 some years.)

* http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2012/09/14/10-poorest-countries-in-world.html

* In Haiti, the highest in the world, 77% of residents live in poverty.

1. Haiti
Poverty rate: 77%
Population: 10,123,787
GDP: $7.35 billion (66th lowest)
GDP per capita: $726 (22nd lowest)

The World Bank notes that more than half of Haiti’s population lives on less than $1 a day, while about 80% of the country lives on less than $2 a day. The country’s estimated unemployment rate as of 2010 was 40.6%. The impoverished nation is in a state of rebuilding since a devastating earthquake hit the country in 2010. According to a USAID report, the death toll from the earthquake was between 46,000 and 85,000, while the official figure by the Haitian government estimated the death toll at 316,000. The World Bank estimates that damages from earthquake totaled $8 billion, or about 120% of gross domestic product.

Do note the disparity in death toll as reported by the first world, and the locals. 85,000 dead opposed to 316,000 dead. Stupid locals, what do they know, right?

Some real good gaslighting there.

(Saw a photograph of Bush and Clinton, engulfed in hilarity, standing in the Haitan ruins after the earthquake. Made me want to vomit. Must have had a nice butt ****ing night with the orphans, bodies so easily disposed of in the wreckage one can assume.)

Those resentful of losing their profits, and power over other human beings, have long memories. Those extreme mental, and emotional distortions get passed down generation to generation, same as any other attribute learned at one's mother's knee.

[Billy Vasiliadis]

There is a perverted concept of "honor" that will lead to violence SO FAST it's amazing.


I remember seeing this, when I was in high school, amongst some of the youth who grew up and lived in public housing. It was pretty scary how quickly things could escalate, out of seemingly nothing, into violence. The best way to solve an issue was to use your fists, a chain, knife etc. No thought seemed to be given to the consequences of seriously harming and potentially even killing someone. Having a conversation was out of the equation. It is a mentality that I cannot understand. I just chalked it up to being born into and growing up in an environment where dealing with issues in that way was the norm. I think, like you wrote, it has something to do with a distorted concept of 'honour', although I am sure there is far more to the picture than that. It is one thing to hear about it, but to see it in person is quite unnerving.

[Hervé]

Something to keep in mind... there is a hidden, third party intention behind all of this: Speaking of "Street Crimes," Riots, etc... (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?27884-Speaking-of-Street-Crimes-Riots-etc...) (<---).
(http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?27884-Speaking-of-Street-Crimes-Riots-etc...)

[TargeT]

in other words, bags and bags of money, tried to rip off a poor black community. Pure. Unadulterated. Greed. A lot of lawyers in Palo Alto.

Greed isn't enough, it has to be racism? Do you honestly think this was done because there were some black people there, or because it's adjacent property that was being bought up for its location.

Why do you have to go to racism? what makes you think that? just a feeling? were they yelling racial slurrs as they closed the real estate deals?

Gentrification is what your talking about, and it's not racist, it's just economics, it's a system that is designed with out empathy & based on greed....



You see entrenched polarity, look for the third party. In our case, the driver is a history of slavery, brought to us courtesy of the English ruling class, feeding their 17th, 18th, 19th century sources of obscene wealth via sugar and coffee plantations worked by slaves. Slavery requires EXTREME mental gymnastics, gross distortion of human empathy, to justify such egregious behavior. It requires separation into human and not human.

how is that anywhere near relevant to today.

This shows that it's not, at all relevant:


Culture is the key.. not race. This is a very well done discussion on the topic.
TY1_UWMy83c






*The poorest nation on Earth? The one nation on Earth, able to throw out the colonial bastards that enslaved them. To this day, no investment, no trade. Now that is racism. Centuries of entrenched, resentful, racism still driving the market. (Think Cuba, carefully preserving their 1950 retro cars, because there is still no trade after 60 some years.)
(Saw a photograph of Bush and Clinton, engulfed in hilarity, standing in the Haitan ruins after the earthquake. Made me want to vomit. Must have had a nice butt ****ing night with the orphans, bodies so easily disposed of in the wreckage one can assume.)
Those resentful of losing their profits, and power over other human beings, have long memories. Those extreme mental, and emotional distortions get passed down generation to generation, same as any other attribute learned at one's mother's knee.

how is that racism and not blatant greed?

why does it have to do with race?

Seriously you are giving examples of what I speak of in this thread: a system out of control... but not racism.

Why do you connect these things with racism , to me I see greed and sociopathic behavior; I'm not saying I agree with it. It's not how we should treat people, but it's NOT racism.





Greed doesn't have time for racism, Captilizm doesn't.. it's a machine that will seek the most efficient path, no matter who it devours.

[Sierra]

Good G*d Target.

What was that yo daddy taught you? Be tough?

Your filters are fierce, lol.

Yeah, imo, simple "innocent" greed is not enough. It's racism, when I stick the spade in the ground.

Love, Sierra

P.S. (Here are some burned to the ground towns. Thousands died. There are more...) (Greed does not explain burning, literally bombing from air, entire towns to the ground.)
http://sfbayview.com/2011/02/what-happened-to-black-wall-street-on-june-1-1921/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosewood_massacre

[T Smith]

Hello Intuitive Fish,

I mean no disrespect, and I appreciate your observations and the intent underlying your prescriptions, but at the risk of offending you and many others who will not share my point of view, I have to say I’m sorry. There is something inherently wrong with this worldview. I would go so far to say this is an entirely anti-human perspective.

Here are some troubling questions that come to mind when I attempt to ponder this program. Are we really such soulless beings who (that?) require this degree of corrective programming, as fashioned by progressive social engineers? Are we not capable of sentience and love as individuals? I would pose these as sincere questions open to discussion and debate. Your prescription, however, assumes an entirely Hobbesian formula and presumably answers these questions as given. And while I appreciate your reasoning, passion, and good intentions, if we get right down to the core of what this thread is about, we must ask ourselves whether we are divine spirits all (or some?) or merely soulless animals (all or some?) who require endless (and authoritarian) conditioning in order to achieve social justice, all in the name of aping the motions of elevated being (which of course, is much different from truly experiencing elevated being). Are we humans really so doomed, unconscious, and separated from Source, that we are not capable of self-directing our experience? Are we so bereft of spirituality, conscience, and the innate ability to experience God without a running program? If so, surely there are additional rules and guidelines necessary to govern my thoughts, feelings, and perceptions of reality and the very dynamic of the interpersonal relationships I share with my fellow humans? I’m sorry, I have more faith in humanity than that. We are more than that…

Regardless, it would be helpful for me if you would clarify on what grounds you submit I am incapable of sentient experience; is it because of my skin pigmentation or just because I have 46 chromosomes that I am incapable of transcending societal conditioning? I hope you can appreciate the paradox here, i.e., social engineers and anthropological technocrats prescribing conditioning in order to transcend conditioning.

I apologize for the rant. I for one am tired of the running wheel, of the shocks, of bells, of mazes. It’s time we all free ourselves of this nonsense and remember Who we are…

Kind Regards,

T Smith

Hi, T Smith. Thanks for your post and for your question.

If I thought humans were so incapable, doomed and unconscious, then why would I waste energy calling people to standards of human respect that I know we're not only capable of, but would prefer and would make a better world for all? You might want to check on why you're holding that idea.

They aren't rules or guidelines. They're voices of pain: people letting us know how we can help them in their struggle. I'm simply repeating what I've learned from them. If you wanted to help Native Peoples protesting the Dakota Access Pipeline, wouldn't you ask them what supplies they need in their camp? It's the same concept.

Now I don't think everyone is ready to wake up to this issue, which is A-okay, but I do think everyone is capable of waking up. I don't think you're incapable at all. I think you are perfectly capable, competent, proficient and intelligent.... I believe in you. You can do it! I'll be your cheerleader on the sidelines chanting posi mantras, and doing jumps and backflips. Then I'll throw my pompoms up in the air as we celebrate your victory. Maybe we could even have a couple of beers together - even though I can't stand beer or the inherently sexist implications of cheerleading, but that's beside the point. I'd be happy to do that for someone so capable, awesome and spectacular as yourself.

Remember, you are capable! ;)

Hello Intuitive Fish,

Thank you for the explanation.

I think at the end of the day we are both on the same page. We just maintain a different point of view. And to answer your questions, yes, I am inclined to do what I can to make the world a better place. And yes, I am open to provide whatever assistance I can. You can count me in if this includes helping Native Peoples protesting the Dakota Access Pipeline or reaching out and supporting the oppressed in their struggles, if called upon or when appropriate (but as pointed out by you, and others, this alone might be construed as toxically paternalistic or racist, or even white savior complex, or whatever other term of the day that so happens to characterize my so-called racist and seemingly wicked proclivities). But more to the point, assuming the role of "social justice warrior" and condemning inappropriately (and authoritatively), and repeating the memes in your post, even if they are genuine (as opposed to synthetically instilled per a more sinister agenda), may be doing more harm than good to the cause.

This is a dizzying problem and begs the question: what is racism? What does that even mean? Whenever I get into these kinds of discussions my head spins. Your definition seemingly casts such a vast dragnet over the implications and meaning of racism it becomes impossible to escape the conclusion that everyone and everything is racist, save for POC, who, at the same time, are exempted completely from the dragnet simply because of their race. But this just seems absurd to me. First, it's not true, and second, it's just absurd. We obviously maintain two different meanings and definitions of the words "racist" and "racism", so perhaps, to have a useful conversation we should define these terms precisely at the outset. Perhaps we should come up with totally new words altogether to describe the dynamic you're talking about.

I won't belabor the point, but I don't think it's helpful to throw such a vast dragnet over our understanding of what "racism" actually is, to such degree that the term itself becomes watered down and fully synonymous with "being white". First, I don't believe that's accurate; second, it's way too simplistic; and third, and perhaps most sinister, promoting this meme actually encourages balkanization, division, and racial resentment among all cultures and colors within the social divide. I can promise you this is not an accident and is by design. It encourages POC to distrust and dislike middle-class Whites (per this meme all Whites are wicked and racist, especially those better off within the social structure); it encourages Whites--and especially non-thinking and non-educated Whites--to become distrustful and racist toward POC, as they understand they are targets of hate and are suspect simply because they are branded racists. At the end of the day, promoting this meme encourages a form of racism in its truest form. Social engineers understand this dialectic very well. Through universities, media, Hollywood, public education, and other indoctrination programs, they thus enlist a whole army of unwitting and well-meaning social justice warriors (of all colors) who buy into the program and become pawns in a much more diabolical scheme, promoting racism in the name of eradicating it.

I do appreciate your point of view, however, and I promise I won't make you compromise your beliefs by ever asking you to pick up a set of pom-poms.:o But if you ever do develop a taste for well-crafted beer, I'd love to share a pint or two :beer: with you so we can hash this out further!

Kind Regards,

T Smith

[Intuitive Fish]

I love communicating in text, it's so efficient!(?)!.

I have no idea what your talking about right now, it's fun to read, but I'm not sure how it applies to the original post of this thread.



I know, right? I mean, why talk about love and genuine human relationships? What even are those? I can see why you're confused. ;) My ad hom comment was sarcasm and so was that last line. The reason I change the subject and don't answer your questions in my replies is because they're not genuine questions and people's lives and experiences aren't a theoretical debate.

Just because you don't experience racism doesn't mean you get to use your platform to define reality for everyone else. Furthermore, your posts are aggressive, domineering, and dangerously fuel white supremacy (which incites more violence) among other abuse tactics and problematic beliefs. Meanwhile, you use the "don't be politically correct" umbrella to keep anyone from holding you accountable for your words and influence.

Let's talk about political correctness because I see this argument everywhere (not just here.) On one hand, calling for political correctness can create subservient, docile humanoids. People need to be able talk about "weird" stuff like UFO's and metaphysics and conspiracy theories or anything outside the accepted norm without being viewed as weird, automatically wrong, or silenced or shut down. People also need to be able to challenge institutional powers, religions and corporate monopolies. That's when it's not okay to call for political correctness.

But free speech doesn't mean you get to say whatever you want without consequences. That's why Steve Clevenger from the Seattle Mariners was suspended from the rest of this year's MLB (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2016/09/23/steve-clevenger-suspended-racist-charlotte-tweets-seattle-mariners/90908618/) for bordering hate speech. Not that I'm into commercialized sports but many people are, so that was a significant action.

Sometimes people represent the company they work for, or the platform they use to speak. For example, Leslie Jones, an actress in the recent Ghostbusters film remake was harassed incessantly on Twitter (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/20/technology/twitter-bars-milo-yiannopoulos-in-crackdown-on-abusive-comments.html?_r=0) by racist trolls intended to drive her and other dark-skinned people off the site. It keeps entire demographics from feeling safe or from even wanting to use the site. So Twitter banned the main guy leading that effort.

Twitter has also abused that power by censoring the wrong people, news stories and topics with their political and media bias, but the point is that words hold power and affect everyone around you and therefore, you can't just say whatever you want. That doesn't mean you have to preach happy positivity; it means you can't use your freedom to infringe on the freedom of others.

Racism is the global default. (This includes people who profusely claim they aren't racist.) As I mentioned earlier but I think is worth repeating, racism is so normalized, we can't see it, even here in the Pacific Northwest. It takes very little effort to vomit racist themes and incite others to chime in. The real integrity is to dismantle your own humanly-degrading beliefs, words and behaviors and be brave enough to hold others, including friends, accountable for the same.

[Intuitive Fish]

More of the 911 negotiator transcripts of the Orlando shooter at Pulse Nightclub were recently released....

Whether or not Orlando was a false flag event, everybody hates the shooter, right? He killed innocent people in cold blood murder. What could be worse than that? Not that returning violence with violence resolves anything, and in fact only continues the cycle.

But both major U.S Presidential candidates used the Orlando event to gain public support for war-mongering and arms deal profiteering in these same countries under the banner of "annihilating extremists". So it's in political interest for us to fear this shooter and everyone else with similar skin tones, or to at least ignore U.S. military campaigns in the Middle East. And that's why it took so long for these transcripts to be released, which was done under the radar and have already been taken down. But here's a screenshot and a news story (https://www.rt.com/usa/360462-omar-mateen-negotiation-transcript/).

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3113375/pages/NEGOTIATION1-p1-normal.gif

If we take a look at mass shooters and suicide bombers in Europe and the Pulse Nightclub shooter's reasoning, we see a completely different perspective. The perspective of a group of people who've had their power removed from them and are violently oppressed. They have little to no resources, weapons, sustenance, respect, media platforms, funding or support to do so. If they do fight back, they're punished even more. So this person sounds like he reached his limit and did all he knew to help and avenge his people, as well as get the attention of the public.

And here's an article published today by RT which shows that artificially producing fear and fueling hate toward certain groups has been and most likely is a political operation. So yes, it is absolutely wise to question media stories and official stats.

Pentagon paid PR firm $540mn to make fake terrorist videos (https://www.rt.com/usa/361385-pentagon-pr-firm-terrorist-videos/)


"The Pentagon paid a UK PR firm half a billion dollars to create fake terrorist videos in Iraq in a secret propaganda campaign exposed by the Bureau of Investigative Journalism.

PR firm Bell Pottinger, known for its array of controversial clients including the Saudi government and Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet’s foundation, worked with the US military to create the propaganda in a secretive operation.

The firm reported to the CIA, the National Security Council and the Pentagon on the project with a mandate to portray Al-Qaeda in a negative light and track suspected sympathizers...."

Not to compare Black and Brown people because their experiences are all unique, but it's the same game play with Black Lives Matter and other Black activists and protests. It's in state interest to paint Blacks in a fearsome light so they can pour more funds into militarizing police and state violence in which Blacks, Hispanics, and people in poverty are most often profiled and targeted... only continuing the cycle.

[Intuitive Fish]

The reason I think racism and human discrimination is such an important topic is because it's a link to the broader scheme of things, namely the entire system matrix we're all somewhat caught under, however that system or its structural source might be defined.

The belief in human hierarchy (the belief that some humans possess more power than others which manifests and maintains that reality) not only creates our current institutional systems which flows through Earth's planetary and atmospheric grids, but upholds that power structure and essentially results in humans destroying each other in all kinds of creative ways.

But we seem to be experiencing some extent of a global awakening (with an extra amount of backlash and resistance) so that's why we see more people saying, "Hey, I might not fit these long-standing human standards, but I don't deserve to be ostracized or treated this way. It's not okay to treat my people and my culture this way, and it's not okay to mistreat others either."

There's a growing amount of self-respect. So that's why we're seeing more and more individuals and groups bravely challenging, questioning the lines of control, generally beginning with people who experience the most fatal oppression, possibly because they've reached their limit on how much they can take. So it's worth the bullying and punishment they'll inevitably get in return.

They're the ones who are actively and effectively dismantling the system's infrastructure. They're actually instigating the change we've all longed for with the simple but powerful revolutionary act of daring to stand up for themselves more often within society (as opposed to living "off the grid" or being sheltered from it.)

I'm watching this occur worldwide and thinking, "So this is how the power at the top is going to crumble. Interesting." And it really does begin at the individual level by embracing self-love and personal power.

Anyway, remove the arbitrary racist and discriminatory thought patterns, and we potentially dismantle the entire hierarchical system network itself.

[Intuitive Fish]

Hello Intuitive Fish,

Thank you for the explanation.

I think at the end of the day we are both on the same page. We just maintain a different point of view. And to answer your questions, yes, I am inclined to do what I can to make the world a better place. And yes, I am open to provide whatever assistance I can. You can count me in if this includes helping Native Peoples protesting the Dakota Access Pipeline or reaching out and supporting the oppressed in their struggles, if called upon or when appropriate (but as pointed out by you, and others, this alone might be construed as toxically paternalistic or racist, or even white savior complex, or whatever other term of the day that so happens to characterize my so-called racist and seemingly wicked proclivities). But more to the point, assuming the role of "social justice warrior" and condemning inappropriately (and authoritatively), and repeating the memes in your post, even if they are genuine (as opposed to synthetically instilled per a more sinister agenda), may be doing more harm than good to the cause.

This is a dizzying problem and begs the question: what is racism? What does that even mean? Whenever I get into these kinds of discussions my head spins. Your definition seemingly casts such a vast dragnet over the implications and meaning of racism it becomes impossible to escape the conclusion that everyone and everything is racist, save for POC, who, at the same time, are exempted completely from the dragnet simply because of their race. But this just seems absurd to me. First, it's not true, and second, it's just absurd. We obviously maintain two different meanings and definitions of the words "racist" and "racism", so perhaps, to have a useful conversation we should define these terms precisely at the outset. Perhaps we should come up with totally new words altogether to describe the dynamic you're talking about.

I won't belabor the point, but I don't think it's helpful to throw such a vast dragnet over our understanding of what "racism" actually is, to such degree that the term itself becomes watered down and fully synonymous with "being white". First, I don't believe that's accurate; second, it's way too simplistic; and third, and perhaps most sinister, promoting this meme actually encourages balkanization, division, and racial resentment among all cultures and colors within the social divide. I can promise you this is not an accident and is by design. It encourages POC to distrust and dislike middle-class Whites (per this meme all Whites are wicked and racist, especially those better off within the social structure); it encourages Whites--and especially non-thinking and non-educated Whites--to become distrustful and racist toward POC, as they understand they are targets of hate and are suspect simply because they are branded racists. At the end of the day, promoting this meme encourages a form of racism in its truest form. Social engineers understand this dialectic very well. Through universities, media, Hollywood, public education, and other indoctrination programs, they thus enlist a whole army of unwitting and well-meaning social justice warriors (of all colors) who buy into the program and become pawns in a much more diabolical scheme, promoting racism in the name of eradicating it.

I do appreciate your point of view, however, and I promise I won't make you compromise your beliefs by ever asking you to pick up a set of pom-poms.:o But if you ever do develop a taste for well-crafted beer, I'd love to share a pint or two :beer: with you so we can hash this out further!

Kind Regards,

T Smith

Ah, resorting to the ol' "jab her in her weak spot" desperate attempt to shut her down, complete with "let's avoid the subject of racism by microanalysing definitions...."

I won't deny that I felt long ago I was overstepping my bounds on this topic by assuming to speak for Black people and others without experiencing their experiences. And I won't deny I've probably drifted into that arena of self-righteousness when it comes to seeing something so blatantly that others can't seem to see....

And for those reasons I'd like to thank everyone for the discussion and bow out of this thread.

But I do wonder why POC's seem to be eerily quiet here, for the most part. Where are they? Do they feel safe and respected here? Do they feel they can freely add their voices to the whole topic which is about them? If not, we're certainly not doing ourselves, or this forum, any favors.

So, cheers! :beer: I'm going to go find a nice, sweet topic on say, rose quartz crystals or friendly aliens. ;) Respect to all!

[TargeT]

Ah, resorting to the ol' "jab her in her weak spot" desperate attempt to shut her down, complete with "let's avoid the subject of racism by microanalysing definitions...."

You have a very interesting communication style & the more you write the more "leftist" talking points I see; which I suppose explains why you are so triggered at this point.

Both sides of the spectrum have valid points (right/left) with a lot of silliness mixed in; be-careful what you choose to pick up from those pools.


I'd like to thank everyone for the discussion and bow out of this thread.

best of luck

[TargeT]

Found an interesting concept today:


The backfire effect is a name for the finding that, given evidence against their beliefs, people can reject the evidence and believe even more strongly.[43][44] The phrase was first coined by Brendan Nyhan and Jason Reifler.[45] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias#backfire_effect)

I guess at times, discussions can be rather pointless & just entrench opposing view holders further into their position.. confirmation bias is a hell of a thing.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Thought of you , Target...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/policing-racism-peel-ontario-1.3784966

White police officer and young black man swap lives for a day, haven't read it yet. Posting it here, now , without bias.

[TargeT]

P.S. (Here are some burned to the ground towns. Thousands died. There are more...) (Greed does not explain burning, literally bombing from air, entire towns to the ground.)
http://sfbayview.com/2011/02/what-happened-to-black-wall-street-on-june-1-1921/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosewood_massacre

More black and white stuff eh?

Got anything newer than 80-90 years ago? Please explain why you feel these are relevant to today.


Thought of you , Target...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/policing-racism-peel-ontario-1.3784966

White police officer and young black man swap lives for a day, haven't read it yet. Posting it here, now , without bias.

Out come is much like I suspected.. both sides agree more common ground and communication needs to happen; but it's Canada, I'm not at all familiar with that culture other than I assume it's a more leftist, yet calmer version of the US (which is odd for leftists, as they usualy are the violent ones).

Lots of trepidation from the young black man, feelings & stories of past wrong's not set right... upset at the lack of acknowledgement of a 'possible', "out there" problem, upset with the police's "patting themselves on the back" attitude when they aren't "helping the community enough"(or correctly?).

I understand his desire to be treated completely as an individual.. but that's just not how humans work. If it's late at night, and I'm quietly walking down one of the "bad" streets in our town and a woman is on the same side approaching from the opposite direction; should I expect her to have no "caution" based reactions? I'm 5'11" and 210lbs, broad shoulders & obviously male. Do I take offense at her pausing when she sees us alone on a street together? (these are the same streets that I don't let anyone walk down alone, I walk people to their cars or give them a ride to where they parked..)

When I walk my LARGE south African boerboel (https://www.google.com/search?q=south+african+boerboel&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj81aiFoMLPAhUL1R4KHUzKD3IQ_AUICCgB&biw=1920&bih=950) down the street, and people two or three blocks away obviously see me, then immediately cross the street. Is that wrong of them or is that natural behavior when faced with something that could be threatening.. (I don't walk her in town anymore)

How much claimed racism is literally people just acting like people always act; we observe patterns and use them to make future decisions, that's why we are intelligent.... why should we stop this or feel guilty about it?

The young black man in this article/video does not appear to be a member of whom I have been speaking of in the majority of my comments on problematic cultures. I'd like to see that one attempted ("unemployed" 28 year old project resident trades places with a cop).

It seems like they cherry picked two of the most non-confrontational types for both subjects in this article; it read like the opposite of what a US MSM article would read like... haha


More interesting discussion relevant to the OP:
a9yGCa87SGQ

[Sierra]

Those who do not know their history are doomed to repeat it. Utterly relevant. :)

Another question would be, (since you seem to insist there is no such thing as racism) how again is this not racism when 3,000 people are killed in one night, their town bombed and burned to the ground because one white woman accused one black man of rape?

Is that an example of entrenched bias?

I think I'm out of here too, since I receive no thoughtful response, merely gaslit blowoffs. No point in spending energy.

Well, karma got Carmody, lol (H&N thread). Karma tends to get most people who can't see straight.

See ya round Target.

[TargeT]

(since you seem to insist there is no such thing as racism)
I certainly don't think there is no such thing as racism, I've never said that. I went to school with a racist asshole.

I was specifically speaking about the BLM movement and it's claims.


how again is this not racism when 3,000 people are killed in one night, their town bombed and burned to the ground because one white woman accused one black man of rape?

Is that an example of entrenched bias?

yes, around a century ago..

If you wanted to show racism, I'd go with something more along these lines:

Blatant killing of innocents, thousands killed? And happening this year? (https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/category/projects/drones/drones-graphs/)


since I receive no thoughtful response, merely gaslit blowoffs. No point in spending energy.

Well, karma got Carmody, lol (H&N thread). Karma tends to get most people who can't see straight.

See ya round Target.

Gas lighting accusations, Karma "getting" people?

Sounds like a typical response to a strongly held belief being challenged, I understand that phenomenon; it's detailed in the first 10 min of my favorite internet video:

dbh5l0b2-0o

I think it's very valid to point out that your examples are close to a century old; now I guess I"m off to see about this rumor you bring up concerning Carmody and some H&N thread is all about.

[RunningDeer]

(since you seem to insist there is no such thing as racism)
...it's detailed in the first 10 min of my favorite internet video:

dbh5l0b2-0o
Thread - Athene's Theory of Everything (plus outline) & pdf (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?88122-Athene-s-Theory-of-Everything--plus-outline-&p=1036654&viewfull=1#post1036654)

Athene's Theory of Everything is a 50 minute video with the main point being self-aware. Included is an outline with time links for those that prefer to digest in sections.

Here's the transcript of the video - Athene’s Theory of Everything.pdf (http://bin.smwcentral.net/u/16068/athene%2527s%2Btheory%2Bof%2Beverything.pdf) - (some parts are incomplete)

Opening statement:

The following documentary presents new developments in neuroscience and a solution to the many current unsolved problems in physics. While it keeps clear of metaphysical correlations and is solely focused on scientifically verifiable data, it also has philosophical repercussions pertaining to life, death and the origin of the universe.

Due to its many layers and density in presentation, it may require multiple viewings to fully comprehend its implications, even though considerable efforts has been made to simplify the complex scientific concepts that are discussed.

Chapter One: God is in the neurons - 1:23 (https://youtu.be/dbh5l0b2-0o?t=1m2s)


Part 1: Social Neuroscience - 2:55 (https://youtu.be/dbh5l0b2-0o?t=2m55s)

Part 2: Mirror Neurons & Consciousness - 5:23 (https://youtu.be/dbh5l0b2-0o?t=5m23s)

Part 3: God Is in the Neurons - 10:30 (https://youtu.be/dbh5l0b2-0o?t=10m30s)

Part 4: I am Athene - 12:57 (https://youtu.be/dbh5l0b2-0o?t=12m57s)


Chapter Two: The Grand Scheme of Things - 21:06 (https://youtu.be/dbh5l0b2-0o?t=21m6s)


Introduction - 21:26 (https://youtu.be/dbh5l0b2-0o?t=21m26s)

Intro continued - Einstein’s Theory of Relativity - 22:56 (https://youtu.be/dbh5l0b2-0o?t=22m56s)

Intro continued - Quantum Physics - 24:22 (https://youtu.be/dbh5l0b2-0o?t=24m22s)


Chapter Two (continued)

Part 1: De Broglie’s Equations - 25:50 (https://youtu.be/dbh5l0b2-0o?t=25m50s)

Part 2: Antimatter & Unperturbed Time - 29:04 (https://youtu.be/dbh5l0b2-0o?t=29m4s)

Part 3: Theory of Everything - 32:47 (https://youtu.be/dbh5l0b2-0o?t=32m47s)




a) Quanta & Continuity - 33:33 (https://youtu.be/dbh5l0b2-0o?t=33m33s)
b) Quantum Superposition - 38:22 (https://youtu.be/dbh5l0b2-0o?t=38m22s)
c) Time - 40:32 (https://youtu.be/dbh5l0b2-0o?t=40m32s)
d) Neurological Implications - 43:59 (https://youtu.be/dbh5l0b2-0o?t=43m59s)
e) A Limited Interpretation - 45:38 (https://youtu.be/dbh5l0b2-0o?t=45m38s)



Epilogue - 46:46 (https://youtu.be/dbh5l0b2-0o?t=46m46s)

[TargeT]

So this is a vastly more eloquent argument that parallels mine from the "black" perspective.

There's obviously a ton of research done on this, it's a very interesting perspective:
h9mV2fRF5Xk

I completely agree with his statements, we have "racism" via inertia going on right now, no actual systemic racism, but it's not needed as the patterns and cultures are already set in place that are detrimental to a lot of those individuals.

He does do a bit of exaggeration and doesn't fully comprehend a few of the things he brings up (for instance: the reason "blacks" get longer sentences is usually because they are repeat offenders) but the majority of this is fairly objective and accurate (from what I've checked up on).

http://static.prisonpolicy.org/images/pie2016_race.jpg

I love his solution also, Prison reform! prisons for profit are terrible for everyone.

http://static.prisonpolicy.org/images/pie2016.jpg


And once we have wrapped our minds around the “whole pie” of mass incarceration, we should zoom out and note that being locked up is just one piece of the larger pie of correctional control. There are another 820,000 people on parole (a type of conditional release from prison) and a staggering 3.8 million people on probation (what is typically an alternative sentence).
http://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2016.html

[TargeT]

https://i.imgur.com/lQJ1MFm.jpg

[Atlas]

Kentucky Judge gives man 60 days in jail for using racial slur :facepalm:
5d-SK5Rzpr8
Are Cops Racist?
VUergCWTxRw

[TargeT]

**** white people, still going strong and unopposed:

BXpi3F0E5ro

[PurpleLama]

https://accredited-times.com/2016/11/17/the-oppression-pyramid-a-lesson-in-critical-race-theory/


(satire)

[TargeT]

MTV's got it going strong!

(I found this satirically humorous as well)

I think this sort of highlights how easy it is for us to have cognitive dissonance and not even really realize it.
8i0M3gnueP0

[TargeT]

It's only ok to be racist if your the RIGHT KIND of racist... apparently?


Twitter User Replaces Word 'White' With 'Black,' Gets Banned
http://www.informationliberation.com/files/twitter-censor.png
A Twitter user conducted an interesting experiment to sniff out double standards in the site's censorship policy concerning race.

The person wrote the same comment on two different accounts with only two words changed, then reported each for abusive behavior.

The first comment read: "I ****ing hate white people and their inconsiderate asses for voting for Trump. **** you."

The second: "I ****ing hate black people and their inconsiderate asses for voting for Clinton. **** you."

The first was found not to be in "violation of Twitter's Rules regarding abusive behavior," while the second resulted in the user's account being banned.
http://www.informationliberation.com/files/isAtFdh.png

http://www.informationliberation.com/files/QTO3Hbl.png

http://www.informationliberation.com/files/0hOGOLz.png

http://www.informationliberation.com/files/JGyctVN1.jpg
http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=55863

[KiwiElf]

Yesssss ... add all the other prejudices to that too. This is off topic, but a good example of the PC hypocrisy, tapping into the same kind of hatred generation and double standards we can all relate to here:

A lot of PC people are pushing for black actor Idris Elba to play the next James Bond (Idris is a great actor and starred most recently as the villain in STAR TREK BEYOND). Well let's make Bond gay as well! DUH!

I criticised the poor choices of actors in the recent MTV remake of The Rocky Horror Picture Show (they used real transgender actress, Laverne Cox ie male-female, also a terrific actress) to play Frank as a female, & a black Dr Scott, and Tim Curry (who played Frank in the original 1975 version) as the Criminologist - with most of his original lines missing!. Bad move. It wasn't really the actors that made it bad tho; they just sanitised and changed it too much. It went from raunchy to PC-family-hour prissy! (trailers here):

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1267299/?ref_=nv_sr_1

Sorry. It bombed big time. I suggested in that particular forum, well let's get a white actor to play the part of Dr Martin Luther King, and we'll make Batman a transvestite.

Ouch. Speaking of protests, I almost started WW3. I'd inadvertantly pressed their "hate" button by exposing the double standard. :silent:

In the new Netflix Lost In Space TV series remake, it's already been confirmed that black actress Taylor Russell will play the oldest daughter, Judy Robinson (now that might work!)

http://tvline.com/2016/09/16/lost-in-space-remake-netflix-taylor-russell-cast-judy-robinson/

This whole PC thing is just outta control! If it ain't broke, don't fix it! (... and don't change it just for the sake of changing it OR making it PC when it was never an issue to begin with!)

:focus:

[ThePythonicCow]

Sorry. It bombed big time. I suggested in that particular forum, well let's get a white actor to play the part of Dr Martin Luther King, and we'll make Batman a transvestite.
Instead of Superman and Clark Kent being the same person, in alternative clothing, we could have Superman and Lois Lane being the same person :)

(and who better to star in this leading role than Bruce Caitlyn Jenner?)

[KiwiElf]

LOL now that would be really funny! :)

[TargeT]

Sorry. It bombed big time. I suggested in that particular forum, well let's get a white actor to play the part of Dr Martin Luther King, and we'll make Batman a transvestite.
Instead of Superman and Clark Kent being the same person, in alternative clothing, we could have Superman and Lois Lane being the same person :)

(and who better to star in this leading role than Bruce Caitlyn Jenner?)

or even better, every other time he changes from superman he becomes either lois lane, Clark Kent, or an attack helicopter (he/she/it is gender fluid after all).

All jokes aside,

I think it's perfectly ok to have what ever sexual orientation you want, even if it changes daily.. but why does it have to be such a big deal?

The US was founded by protestants, we are still influenced by this and (in general) uncomfortable with the topic of "sex" sometimes to the point of fearful of it (depending on the person spoken to).

it doesn't logic, the forcing of confusing pro-nouns... none of the PC stuff does to me though, so there's that.

[TargeT]

Racism claims being applied everywhere these days, but how often are they analysed?
R3vGeTZw7uE