Re: Voting opinion question...

[raregem]

Hi Avalonions-

I have worked at not sharing my thoughts in the last year or so b/c of the highly charged responses, which in turn charge me highly and I cannot speak with clarity. ugh
I choose PA b/c I do not have to tell the deeper info we have learned about our world and how deceptive it is.
I just had a conversation (of sorts,.lol) with my roomy -who speaks strongly for Hillary and against Trump. I spoke today about politics -finally gave my thoughts. He said I was only negative. I said I was not going to vote...he let me have it with both barrels.
I wanted to ask him who controls the Prez but, I did not think it was going to be received.
I believe PA is a place where I can ask your thoughts about voting or not voting. Maybe even why?
My reasoning: I think it makes zero difference b/c I feel it is a show for the masses ( making us think we are in control and have a voice) and voting is rigged.

The Chosen One will soon be known. That is how I see it. The end.

Your thoughts?

[TargeT]

IMO the loudest and most meaningful vote these days is the one not cast.


A victory, IMO, is a 2% voter turn out next month (or less!).

[Yetti]

Is very important to vote even if the system is rigged or apparently there is no chance for your candidate, but, is the ONLY option you have to express your opinion on the subject of , who you think should lead the way of USA .
The disaster of biblical proportions we live now is not the work of the mayority of us, is the work of two corrupt political PARTY AND A BUNCH OF LOBBYST WHO PUT THEIR PERSONAL GAIN WAY BEFORE YOUR NEEDS.
Consider to vote with your heart, and see clearly what's going on, in front of your very eyes: only 2 party show on mainstream media, why?.... they've been paid for. Not letting debate ANY other on the debates tells you how crocked and greedy they are, . is simple and you don't need glasses to see this.
I have seen twice in my life the perpetual govenment of 2 party destroy my country, Argentina , and Venezuela, and now we are on the verge to see USA destroy by the rotten side of politics manufacturing news to decive you 24/7. WALE UP AMERICA< is your last chance.
A simple example: monsanto has been hicked out of many country's , but here , they are protected by law signed by obama making illegal to sue monsanto, not enough the head of the dep of agricultuer is on the board of directos of this company, so smells fishy enough or you want more?

[Charles Harris]

The electoral college is the institution that decides who becomes president of the United States. WE as citizens vote for them and they are supposed to vote for whomever they have pledged to. Have you ever talked to or watched a politician speak? Shifty eyes and that plastered on smile,does not evoke confidence.
I grew up in a household that rarely voted and I personally have never once cast a ballot. Came really close the year Ron Paul was running but missed the polls closing by half an hour do to work. Looking back , I don't feel my vote would have made any difference in my day to day life. Elected officials will do what they will, may god have mercy.

[Charles Harris]

IMO the loudest and most meaningful vote these days is the one not cast.


A victory, IMO, is a 2% voter turn out next month (or less!).

Refrain from Beans!

[wnlight]

When you vote for anyone, you are supporting the voting system. You are voting for their corrupt system as being just and acceptable to you. You are playing their game.

[halcyon026]

I don't vote for a number of reasons

It's rigged.

The President doesn't actually have much power. Let's say we elect someone from the forum, do you think the Cabal would let them pass laws that outlaw money and banks? They own all the congressmen who can deny or allow any laws that would impact the Cabal, so how far do you think any decent President would get?? I'd say about as far as JFK.

If we assume this is a free will Universe then the Cabal would need our permission, they'd want a mass scale permission getting machine and they'd heavily advertise the use of it, they'd condition everyone to pressure everyone else to be doing it... Enter the "Voting" system, aka permission getting machine.

When you vote you are saying YES I support this voting system.
Yes, I agree to this. Yes I validate this. Yes this is a real thing. You are saying yes to all of it really... You're saying yes I allow this reality where your voting system is the tool I have for my freedom. And where will it get you? More of the same.

I think we are placing a vote for the future we want every time we pay taxes, cause we know $600B a year goes to the Military to run wars, and every time we burn gasoline, we are voting for the Cabal, supporting them.

We live in a world where the Native Americans have to earn money they pay tax on that pays for the cops/guard/etc that are stopping them. They have to buy gas for their cars or take a plane that burns gas, to protest that they don't want oil pipe lines on their land or water. It is setup so that you are caught supporting them and their system. We can even take the new age or spiritual route and say that because we are aware it's all fake and the Cabal owns it all, we are somehow not a part of the problem, we too support them anytime we use money or oil. And I do every day... this is just the living truth of where we are in America. I'm not saying we should all start feeling horrible about ourselves, we should be loving ourselves.

I think non participation may have it's role in our freedom. If we stopped using their money and their oil and their corporations we might get their attention at least...

http://archive.kubatana.net/html/archive/opin/120702kuba.jpg

[ghostrider]

... I have had enough of the Bushes and Clintons in government, my vote will be against Hillary , no matter who wins war with Russia is coming ... you should vote , men, sons, fathers, nephews, all gave their lives for you to have a say ... even if you vote for none of the above, let your voicebe heard , and on record ...

[wnlight]

I don't know about your state, but in Texas you cannot vote for "none of the above". I suspect that is true in any state that uses machines. If you MUST vote, I suggest you vote for a party that cannot win. Hillary will win because they will turn enough votes around to give her a majority. So much for "let your voice be heard" in this crooked election. This is reality. Maybe people could change it by demonstrating against voting machines. Maybe. But election officials love them because there is no paper trail. Without the paper trail, recounts are meaningless.

[halcyon026]

If you're in the Matrix freeing minds, and the Machines have a voting system for your leaders and some people know you're stuck in the Matrix and could free you...
Do you teach everyone that in order to free yourself from the Machines you must vote in their system for a leader that will free you? You don't suppose the Machines just ignore any votes against their selected 'leaders'? Who is it here in these rigged fake systems, that you think is hearing our voice, it's a black hole by design. Who is taking it into account for anything? That looks more like asking for permission to be free to me... Can I please not use your money anymore? Can I please not burn your oil anymore? Can I please use the medicines I chose? Can I please have safe water to drink? Let me place my vote for that now because they say that's how I'll get my voice heard.

I'm not saying if 100 million Americans voted for Eckhart Tolle, that it wouldn't get the Cabals attention, they would take that into account so you could say those voices would be heard and then they'd take action to end the threat, IE: JFK. They could also simply not let any laws pass through their owned congressmen blocking everything, they own things at enough layers to prevent even Presidents from removing their power, Presidents powers are restricted by those who are "counting" your vote.

The Corporations own the Nations. Some keep voting at the Nations level, their Matrix/Systems level, it's a contained and controlled thing, they own things at a higher level, many layers higher. Their system is there to keep adding the laws they want, not remove them by giving a President power to do so, nor would they give up the power of counting the votes in their owned Nations.

To me being heard is doing what harms their agenda, IE not using money, not using oil, not using their systems. Using it only feeds them, it's designed that way.

Talking politics can feel upright. :)

[betoobig]

At an energy level voting is accepting a contract for someone to rule on you, accepting the system, accepting its rules, accepting slavery. IMO.
much love

[Baby Steps]

IMO the loudest and most meaningful vote these days is the one not cast.


A victory, IMO, is a 2% voter turn out next month (or less!).

what are the legalities if there was a really low turnout? anyway would they not just bus fake voters around and hack the machines anyway?
at this point, i think what would be good for the world would be a mass 'people power' protest in western countries that was so huge that its demands, that we remove all western illegal military intervention from Syria, were met by current governments.

this would infuse so much positive empowerment into the political process, we might see certain leopards trying to clean off certain spots!

[sunpaw]

I was *for voting* before I read the comments, so I figure I am on the wrong path...
So I just don't vote and it counts as silent protest? That's mag :cake:

[TargeT]

I was *for voting* before I read the comments, so I figure I am on the wrong path...
So I just don't vote and it counts as silent protest? That's mag :cake:

I think we have enough historical examples to show us that voting is pointless & is, by consent, endorsing the actions these "elected" officials take.

If you are being forced to choose between Pepsi and Coke, not choosing at all is the best option. Don't let them frame the situation by offering you a false choice, YOU frame the situation by avoiding the choice all together & working locally to improve your community with out "government help".

"be the change you want to see" don't vote for someone else to be the change.

[VirgoSun79]

I keep hearing people say, 'vote with your heart' --- I don't know what's going on in other peoples 'heart', but mine is calling bull****.
We get 2, not 1 but 2! Horrific and laughable choices, everyone calls it 'choose between 2 evils' (smile) - 'that's OK, that's just the way things are, but you have to vote"
What type of a slave mentality is that?!

"Vote with my heart?" - OK, cool, I will make sure I'm not voting.

[Franny]

A friend of mine posted this bit of wisdom this morning:

America 2016: choose between Caligula on the right and Bloody Mary on the left.
If you don't vote you are irresponsible and have no right to complain.

[amor]

There is merit in youtube videos. Coming from a low information world, you can learn things that would have appeared impossible to be. For instance, I learned that among all the reasons for which Kennedy could have been killed, the one outstanding reason was that he wanted "peace" between USA and Russia and the Military Industrial Complex and their profiteering bankers would thereby have their filthy hands chopped off. Also, the Military would be unable to have their secret nazi offworld space program along with their intention to genocide the world in favor of their own race. Where would they have been able to steal the government money from to build an underground world, complete with genetic experimentation labs, and advanced technologies for their new world of space flight, etc. We are asked to vote for people we know absolutely nothing about, especially not whose interests they are really there to serve; and after the scumbags duke it out in public, voting machines which are built in such a way that they can be manipulated via satellite from China are offered as the final arbiter of the outcome. Nevertheless, I am voting for Trump. I can only hope he reverses what Obama has illegally signed on for, especially extermination camps and the murder of 65,000 horses, tame and wild. Heartless bumb.

[Sierra]

We've got a marijuana legalization initiative on the ballot in California so I'm going to vote, and will have to vote for a president as well, to get my vote counted where it counts for something. Jill Stein or Gary Johnson I guess...

Though I assume it is a moot point to *not* vote for Killary, since as the Establishment choice, she is in like Flynn. The Electoral College vote is virtually sewn up at this point.

Spain has no central government right now, all government is taking place at the grass roots level, and Spain is doing just fine.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/03/world/europe/spain-socialists-sanchez-rajoy.html


Spaniards, Exhausted by Politics, Warm to Life Without a Government
MADRID — For the past 288 days, Spain has plodded along without an elected national government. For some Spaniards, this is a wonderful thing.

“No government, no thieves,” said Félix Pastor, a language teacher who, like many voters, is fed up with the corruption and scandals that tarnished the two previous governing parties.

Mr. Pastor, a wiry, animated 59-year-old, said Spain could last without a government “until hell freezes over” because politicians were in no position to do more harm.

After two grueling national elections in six months, and with a third vote possible in December, no party has won enough seats or forged the coalition needed to form a government. For the first time in Spain’s four decades as a modern democracy, this country of 47 million people has a caretaker government.

That has produced an unprecedented public spectacle: Politicians scheme and plot but reject the difficult compromises needed to form a government. Voters watch ruefully with a mix of fascination and contempt.

[betoobig]

We've got a marijuana legalization initiative on the ballot in California so I'm going to vote, and will have to vote for a president as well, to get my vote counted where it counts for something. Jill Stein or Gary Johnson I guess...

Though I assume it is a moot point to *not* vote for Killary, since as the Establishment choice, she is in like Flynn. The Electoral College vote is virtually sewn up at this point.
Spain has no central government right now, all government is taking place at the grass roots level, and Spain is doing just fine.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/03/world/europe/spain-socialists-sanchez-rajoy.html


Spaniards, Exhausted by Politics, Warm to Life Without a Government
MADRID — For the past 288 days, Spain has plodded along without an elected national government. For some Spaniards, this is a wonderful thing.

“No government, no thieves,” said Félix Pastor, a language teacher who, like many voters, is fed up with the corruption and scandals that tarnished the two previous governing parties.

Mr. Pastor, a wiry, animated 59-year-old, said Spain could last without a government “until hell freezes over” because politicians were in no position to do more harm.

After two grueling national elections in six months, and with a third vote possible in December, no party has won enough seats or forged the coalition needed to form a government. For the first time in Spain’s four decades as a modern democracy, this country of 47 million people has a caretaker government.

That has produced an unprecedented public spectacle: Politicians scheme and plot but reject the difficult compromises needed to form a government. Voters watch ruefully with a mix of fascination and contempt.

sorry to say but that is not true. untill a new gov is elected the one who was there before is still there. too bad. they are coming up with new laws, for example: any forest that gets burned, now, you can build on it afterwords. too bad. i really whish that was true.. They are still there f++++ing around. Actual minister of interior was caught talking about riigging the elections, they dont even know how to do that right...lol. They are still doing harm. The only good news around here is that fracking companies are walking out of the country.
Much love

¤=[Post Update]=¤


I keep hearing people say, 'vote with your heart' --- I don't know what's going on in other peoples 'heart', but mine is calling bull****.
We get 2, not 1 but 2! Horrific and laughable choices, everyone calls it 'choose between 2 evils' (smile) - 'that's OK, that's just the way things are, but you have to vote"
What type of a slave mentality is that?!




"Vote with my heart?" - OK, cool, I will make sure I'm not voting.

Voting with the heart, i love that concept.... i may start voting... i vote for Source!!!
much love

[norman]

I wish I could say I don't have a dog in this fight, but tragically, every person on the face of this planet has a dog in this fight. That's how bad things are.

Russia and China are both making plans for war. I've no idea who it is that scares them the most Trump or Clinton. Personally, I've heard nothing from Trump that makes me think he's a war monger, despite his political rallying for a powerful military and to wipe out IS fast. I would think Russia would be happy with that. On the other hand, perhaps deals have made years ago that totally depend on Clinton finishing off whatever part of the deals the US was obligated to do. That's possible more of a China issue in my guessosphere.

[TargeT]

We've got a marijuana legalization initiative on the ballot in California so I'm going to vote,

Just to be clear, I absolutely support voting for local / small government (anything closer to the natural tribal system). Though I still do not pin my hopes on the state governments, at least they seem to be a bit less maniacal. I'm not quite an anarchist ;)

I abstain (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstention) from the federal system.




Spain has no central government right now, all government is taking place at the grass roots level, and Spain is doing just fine.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/03/world/europe/spain-socialists-sanchez-rajoy.html


Spaniards, Exhausted by Politics, Warm to Life Without a Government
MADRID — For the past 288 days, Spain has plodded along without an elected national government. For some Spaniards, this is a wonderful thing.

“No government, no thieves,” said Félix Pastor, a language teacher who, like many voters, is fed up with the corruption and scandals that tarnished the two previous governing parties.

Mr. Pastor, a wiry, animated 59-year-old, said Spain could last without a government “until hell freezes over” because politicians were in no position to do more harm.

After two grueling national elections in six months, and with a third vote possible in December, no party has won enough seats or forged the coalition needed to form a government. For the first time in Spain’s four decades as a modern democracy, this country of 47 million people has a caretaker government.

That has produced an unprecedented public spectacle: Politicians scheme and plot but reject the difficult compromises needed to form a government. Voters watch ruefully with a mix of fascination and contempt.

At first I thought this was awesome, but then as I read more it's just more incompetence.. they still have a caretaker government running things (probably worse, that's UN-elected bureaucrats ).

[Hervé]

...

:pound:



Clinton and Trump more unpopular than Putin among American voters (http://www.moonofalabama.org/2016/10/an-election-of-leaks-and-counter-leaks.html)


Bernhard Moon of Alabama (http://www.moonofalabama.org/2016/10/an-election-of-leaks-and-counter-leaks.html) Sun, 09 Oct 2016 16:07 UTC

The tape of Trump talking dirty was released just in time to sidetrack from the release of more of Clinton's dirty secrets by Wikileaks. Trump's talk was juvenile and sexist bragging in front of other "boys". Surprising it was not. There will be more releases like that, all timed to run cover for Clinton.

The just released emails (https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/) of her campaign chairman John Podesta about Clinton's talk to Wall Street and other Clinton related issues are indeed revealing. She is (https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/927) the sell-out you would expect her to be:
*CLINTON SAYS YOU NEED TO HAVE A PRIVATE AND PUBLIC POSITION ON POLICY*

Clinton: "But if everybody's watching, you know, all of the back room discussions and the deals, you know, then people get a little nervous, to say the least. So, you need both a public and a private position." It is funny how the U.S. electorate has a deeper "very negative" (http://graphics.wsj.com/elections/2016/donald-trump-and-hillary-clintons-popularity-problem/?mod=e2tw) view of Trump (-44%) and Clinton (-41%) than of the much vilified Russian President Putin (-38%).


https://www.sott.net/image/s17/349850/large/dislike.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s17/349850/full/dislike.jpg)

When Trump will come back in the polls (not "if"), it will be a devious fight with daily "leaks" followed by counter leaks and a lot of dirty laundry washed in front of the public. Good.

Many of the people who will vote will vote against a candidate, not for the one that they will mark on their ballot. I expect a very low turn out election, barely giving a mandate, to whomever may win or get selected to have won.


Related:

The tweets fly in the sex scandal drudge match between Trump and the Clintons (https://www.sott.net/article/330570-The-tweets-fly-in-the-sex-scandal-drudge-match-between-Trump-and-the-Clintons)
Panicked GOP brass urge Trump to quit race amid tape scandal (https://www.sott.net/article/330556-Panicked-GOP-brass-urge-Trump-to-quit-race-amid-tape-scandal)
BREAKING: Months before Trump declared candidacy Clinton campaign wrote about "Elevating" him as a "Pied Piper" Candidate (https://www.sott.net/article/330542-BREAKING-Months-before-Trump-declared-candidacy-Clinton-campaign-wrote-about-Elevating-him-as-a-Pied-Piper-Candidate)

[Cardillac]

"it's not who votes that counts but who counts the votes"; we need to deal with that concept-

Larry

[raregem]

I want to thank you all for answering this post.
It actually helped me prove my point without having to teach my roomy whats beyond the "what to think network".
Been there, done that, many times with people, got the tattered t-shirt !

He came to me today and apologized.( Rare to get an apology from him) He said he took it too far. I thanked him and told him I had put a poll online and that I had about 2/3 rds understand my view to not vote and 1/3 agreed with him to vote.
Right or wrong the opinions of each side does matter and should be respected as such.

[raregem]

A friend of mine posted this bit of wisdom this morning:

America 2016: choose between Caligula on the right and Bloody Mary on the left.
If you don't vote you are irresponsible and have no right to complain.

This is what I have heard since I was old enough to legally vote. I voted.
Then I learned about the under belly of politics. I grew up in our state capitol, dated and hung around politicians. I had the opportunity to catch glimpses of life for major players, to see and hear "secrets". It was surprising, almost unreal. They also enjoyed lots of alcohol.
I no longer take the "feel less than a true patriot" line for bait. I no longer agree with that statement. Look where we are in my entire voting history (decades). I ended with both winners and losers and still we are no better off than when I was born in 1959.
It isn't working. It may be the best or only thing we have in the US. It is still not working for the health of our nation. I think we must change our approach. Voting isn't working and I refuse to feel guilty. I did not create this but I am willing to help change this if at all possible. Voting- like things stand today- is not the answer for me.
p.s. If, anyone has a response please, do not berate me but, guide me to understand your views. ty