Well, this sucks ! (really!)

[Bob]

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/7881/production/_92094803_cleaner2.jpg

Dutch inventors have unveiled a large outside air vacuum cleaner they say is capable of filtering large quantities of toxic particles from the atmosphere.

The purifier can clean about 800,000 cubic metres of air per hour, tech start-up Envinity Group said.

"A large column of air will pass through the filter and come out clear," Henk Boersen, the group's spokesman said.

The filter had been showcased at an exhibition in Amsterdam.

"It's a large industrial filter about 8m [26ft 2in] long, made of steel... placed basically on top of buildings and it works like a big vacuum cleaner," Mr Boersen explained.

The company said the vacuum cleaner was able to suck in air from a 300m radius and up to 7km (4.3 miles) from above, and filter out 100% of fine particles and 95% of ultra-fine particles.

Source - http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37773746


About 90% of EU residents are said to be exposed to high levels of such particles.

Last month, an air-purifying system designed by Dutch artist Daan Roosegaarde was installed in Beijing.

Smog Free Tower, which uses patented ozone-free ion technology, can clean up to 30,000 cubic metres of air an hour and collect more than 75% of the harmful particles, according to Studio Roosegaarde.

[Bob]

The Envinity Group - (https://envinitygroup.com/)


The issue of ultra-fine particles almost seemed to be subject to an international cover-up. (from their webpage:)

However, the impact of this invisible air pollution is slowly starting to get the attention it deserves, mainly due to media attention and scientific studies carried out by environmental and health institutes.

Socially sensitive topics, such as increasing maximum speed limits, expanding an airport’s aircraft movements or developing major infrastructure projects, are now accompanied by serious discussions regarding air quality and the effects on public health.




https://envinitygroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/ex.png

We've also discussed nanoparticle soot in another thread at length, the amount of harm created by nano-sized carbon entering tissues, cells.. (see: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?64534-DNA-Nano-Technology-triggering&p=865981&viewfull=1#post865981)

[Daozen]

This is awesome, Bob. Now to find out the price...

[fourty-two]

-great graphic
tnx

[Flash]

http://northseaenergy.nl/deelnemen/I have to presume the prices are here, but I do not read Dutch

ERAM please!!

[PathWalker]

I have ominous bad feeling about this technology.
It is not meant for public service, think the other way around.
Who wants it now, why it was revealed, and why at that location?

[Eram]

The company said the vacuum cleaner was able to suck in air from a 300m radius and up to 7km (4.3 miles) from above, and filter out 100% of fine particles and 95% of ultra-fine particles.



That looks promesing, but the first "yes but..." that comes to mind is: What about insects? Do these get vacumed up as well?



http://northseaenergy.nl/deelnemen/I have to presume the prices are here, but I do not read Dutch

ERAM please!!

This webpage does not seem to be about this invention Flash.
A quick search has not shown anything regarding price tags for this outside air vacuum cleaner.

If the insects survive.... I hope it will hit the markets soon. :clapping:

[Bob]

The company said the vacuum cleaner was able to suck in air from a 300m radius and up to 7km (4.3 miles) from above, and filter out 100% of fine particles and 95% of ultra-fine particles.



That looks promesing, but the first "yes but..." that comes to mind is: What about insects? Do these get vacumed up as well?



http://northseaenergy.nl/deelnemen/I have to presume the prices are here, but I do not read Dutch

ERAM please!!

This webpage does not seem to be about this invention Flash.
A quick search has not shown anything regarding price tags for this outside air vacuum cleaner.

If the insects survive.... I hope it will hit the markets soon. :clapping:

Wonder if they have a big window screen on the front of this vacuum cleaner? the title, this SUCKS ! or is it about helping people and animals, and ignoring insects?

-- so also then, the question about maintenance.. how is it cleaned? (the captured particles should be extremely dangerous if they are nano-chemicals <100 nanometer size) would a bug screen be cleaned? I look at my truck's windscreen and radiator, noting how many bugs are captured while driving..

[Dick]

http://northseaenergy.nl/deelnemen/I have to presume the prices are here, but I do not read Dutch

ERAM please!!

There is nothing about prices on that site, it is an list of partisipants from a expo.
On their site also no prices, only info about the filter and how it works.

Dick.

[Bob]

Below, one of the group's Managing Partner Peter van Wees posing next to a system he created to filter fine and ultra-fine particles from ambient air at the Offshore Energy 2016 Exhibition & Conference in Amsterdam.


http://cdn.phys.org/newman/gfx/news/hires/2016/oneofthegrou.jpg

Energy Research Centre of the Netherlands (ECN) tested the prototype.

Governments, businesses and airports are already interested in the project, Boersen said.

This below is another system, placed in a recreational park:


https://3c1703fe8d.site.internapcdn.net/newman/gfx/news/hires/2015/smogvacuumcl.jpg

Specs:

This smog-sucking vacuum cleaner runs on just 1,400 watts, said Inhabitat, which is no more electricity than a water boiler. (such can be achieved using solar power)

The enabler is a low-energy ionization technology, which is patented.

The man behind this machine is Daan Roosegaarde.

There was a recent launch in Rotterdam; the tower is a 7.0 × 3.5 m modular system in a public park. The launch marked its first pilot.

"The first 7-meter high Smog Free Tower" equipped with environment-friendly and patented technology "is now open for public at Vierhavensstraat 52 in Rotterdam NL," announced the team.

The Smog Free Tower uses a similar technology as indoor air purifiers. "The technology is used indoors in hospitals, so it's safe and tested—we just built the largest one for outdoor use," said Roosegaarde.

[avid]

So does this say it's OK to spray crap into our skies, so long as the folk below are so special their localised air is filtered?
Oops, most folk can't afford to have their 'naturally occuring' air 'cleansed'. Polluters really should be stopped to make this charade unnecessary.... logic!

[countertheanimator]

Very useful. My town could use this. Or we could shut down the polluters...

[joeecho]

As an example, put these in China or Los Angeles without changing anything else, now that would be a test.

[Bob]

Joe - I would want to see if the weather changes in any way.. Taking out nanoparticles may do something with weather too.. And what about plant growth, what changes around the apparatus when it is operating. What would putting one of these within a greenhouse do?

[joeecho]

Joe - I would want to see if the weather changes in any way.. Taking out nanoparticles may do something with weather too.. And what about plant growth, what changes around the apparatus when it is operating. What would putting one of these within a greenhouse do?

Those are excellent points, Bob. I am glad you are thinking beyond the macro-world, especially as you know, everything is connected.

I am always interested in what new technology brings to the table. Like alternate energy, taking a gestalt approach, does a new technology ultimately take more steps forward then back? To me nothing 'new' is all good. If something appears all good someone/ something is suppressing the negative element.

[DbDraad]

I read a bit of Dutch. Those are prices for the different stands/plots at an exhibition/convention of some sorts.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


http://northseaenergy.nl/deelnemen/I have to presume the prices are here, but I do not read Dutch

ERAM please!!

Previous post was in response to this.

[The Freedom Train]

This is awesome, Bob. Now to find out the price...

Speaking of price, I wonder what kind of power this thing requires to operate?

Too bad they don't have any Tesla technology free energy device to run the dang thing.

Although I have to say the specs are not bad:

"This smog-sucking vacuum cleaner runs on just 1,400 watts, said Inhabitat, which is no more electricity than a water boiler. (such can be achieved using solar power) The enabler is a low-energy ionization technology, which is patented."

[Bob]

Hi - It looks like @"The Freedom Train" there appears to be different versions being made by a few organizations.

1400 watts is a reasonable power consumption for that one version mentioned - and that should be able to be addressed by solar/wind with backup batteries for night-time use.

If the concept across the board for these systems is based on an electrostatic air cleaner, instead of physical filters, this could trap nano-particles down to 20 nanometers (ultra-ultra-fine).. Which would be a great benefit to health across the board (carbon soot isn't good (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soot) for cells).


http://www.hongpo.com.sg/images/AirCleanerDiagram.png

http://labman.phys.utk.edu/phys136/modules/m5/images/dust.gif

[amor]

If the suction of this instrument is great, what about the poor birds?

[Bob]

good question. I didn't see any dead birds around the air cleaning machine at Vierhavensstraat 52 in Rotterdam NL. The people there seem to be happy around it, so it must not be noisy.. Apparently no little kids sucked in, no small dogs, no birds.. :)

The one at the D-751 art district didn't seem to have any dead animals/birds around it.


https://img.rt.com/files/2016.10/original/581058eec36188ed0b8b45ee.jpg

https://3c1703fe8d.site.internapcdn.net/newman/gfx/news/hires/2015/smogvacuumcl.jpg

and this one, the one which is shown off at the Energy Conference appears to have a screen at the front of it:


https://img.rt.com/files/2016.10/original/58105b29c361885a598b4586.jpg

Something to take a look at on RT

https://www.rt.com/usa/358109-asthma-ozone-study-gas/

Smog from oil, gas to cause over 750,000 asthma attacks in children – report, Sept. 2016

The nano-particles make up the smog.


https://img.rt.com/files/2016.09/original/57ca4430c36188a2408b4697.jpg


In Asia, there is a report that says the Killer Haze has been responsible for over 100,000 deaths.
(nanoparticles again)

https://www.rt.com/news/359909-killer-haze-kills-study/


The haze in Southeast Asia which lasted for several months last year resulted in some 91,600 deaths in Indonesia, 6,500 in Malaysia and 2,200 in Singapore, scientists from Harvard and Columbia Universities said in a new study published in the journal Environmental Research Letters on Monday.


Sources - burning fires, oil and gas well flaring, poor combustion in dirty diesel emissions, internal combustion engines (no or poor pollution control for emissions in Asia), dirty coal powerplants...

Seems if any bird comes near one of these, they would stay away.. Seems saving hundreds of thousands of human lives may be the focus.

[Daozen]

I've been to Shenzhen in Guandong. The pollution is insane...

*

Large scale electrostatic air cleaning. Why didn't we think of that sooner?

Now how long before we get units that are 2-3 meters high, cost less than 200USD, and can stand in someone's garden?

[Bob]

I've been to Shenzhen in Guandong. The pollution is insane...

*

Large scale electrostatic air cleaning. Why didn't we think of that sooner?

Now how long before we get units that are 2-3 meters high, cost less than 200USD, and can stand in someone's garden?

That sounds like a public service crowdfunding project :)

We can call it - Save the Planet's Air

Motto - All life should have a breath of fresh air..

[Lifebringer]

Hope it's not made by Volkswagon. :coffee::thumbsup:

[araucaria]

Joe - I would want to see if the weather changes in any way.. Taking out nanoparticles may do something with weather too.. And what about plant growth, what changes around the apparatus when it is operating. What would putting one of these within a greenhouse do?
And what about rain: don't raindrops form around dust particles?
And what about wind: that's an awful lot of air passing through a tiny point, presumably at high speed?

[Bob]

Joe - I would want to see if the weather changes in any way.. Taking out nanoparticles may do something with weather too.. And what about plant growth, what changes around the apparatus when it is operating. What would putting one of these within a greenhouse do?
And what about rain: don't raindrops form around dust particles?
And what about wind: that's an awful lot of air passing through a tiny point, presumably at high speed?

Absolutely perfectly asked question. By the looks of it, the roof top units would have a lot of wind, but the ground towers don't appear to have a lot of wind.

The assumptions: with rain, the storm fronts are going to be forming at 3000 meters up (about 10,000 feet) on average, down to about 900 meters (about 3000 feet) with thunderstorm peaks up to about 15,240 meters at the tops (average), or 50,000 foot tops.


The company (The Envinity Group) said the vacuum cleaner was able to suck in air from a 300m radius and up to 7km (4.3 miles) from above, and filter out 100% of fine particles and 95% of ultra-fine particles.

A 1900 foot diameter circle (~600 meters), with an altitude up to 22,704 feet (4.3 miles) or 6,900 meters altitude definitely is within the rain forming altitudes. My question precisely matches yours araucaria.. Rain forms around the dust particles or salt particles (from sea spray), or smoke particles.

Let's look at particle size for rain to form:


From operational NOAA weather satellites which retrieve data regarding cloud droplet effective radius.

Effective Radius: a quantity defined as the sum of the cube of the radii divided by the sum of the square of the radii of the particles in the measurement volume.

It was found that clouds required droplets with effective radii of at least 14 microns for onset of precipitation (Rosenfeld and Gutman 1994).

Satellite measurements of cloud particle sizes in clouds containing smoke from forest fires over the Amazon (Kaufman and Fraser 1997) and over Sumatra (Rosenfeld and Lensky 1998) showed that smoke caused cloud droplet sizes much smaller than the 14-micron precipitation threshold.

The Dutch turbine/electrostatic air cleaner is different than the original inventor's electrostatic tower (tested in China). The Dutch system is going for high power turbine plus cleaning both able to get down into particle sizes into the nano-scale <100 nanometers. 14 microns is 14,000 nanometers..

Sucking out particles below the 14,000 nanometer scales shouldn't affect weather, but would stop the dangerous biological particle sizes causing the most health damage. A ground based electrostatic system (with slight air movement with gentle fans) would not then affect weather but would it appears create a bubble of clean air of having removed the dangerous <100 nanometer particles.

The Dutch roof-top turbine though can reach and capture the larger particles (what they are calling the "fine particles", see image below), which would indeed affect weather (rain drop formation).

This is from the Dutch page:


https://envinitygroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/ex.png

The situation with the Dutch roof-top units is then if one is using it continually, it most likely is going to get very DRY (no rain), and then those Envinity Group vacuum cleaner systems (rooftop mounted), operating at FULL SPEED could be classified as a WEATHER MODIFICATION system. Quite possibly something environmentally classed as a weather weapon !! Hmmmmm.......

PathWalker in Post #6 says "have a bad feeling" about the Dutch Vacuum Cleaner (roof top) system.. Maybe this ultra-high-altitude reaching situation is the reason ?? (reaches into rain forming altitudes)..

The question then for the Dutch Envinity Group: - can the roof top vacuum cleaner be operated so that it does NOT reach out into raincloud forming altitudes? and stays no higher than 900 meters above the roof-top (3000 feet max). That should be more than adequate to remove surface (ground) pollution where people live, considering there are hilly areas where pollution can reach, assuming 3000 feet, there-abouts is the altitude of the hills.

As to the system (the ground based tower) tested in China. This I am not concerned about as far as sucking in insects, birds, small children, or removing particles needed to form rain. The altitudes that the rain clouds form are much higher than the polluted air at ground level. Ground level cleaning seems to be safe. The question would be how many of the ground based units would be needed and at what spacing..

References: particle size for rain droplets - http://ag.arizona.edu/oals/ALN/aln49/rosenfeld.html
Cloud formation - http://science.nationalgeographic.com/science/earth/earths-atmosphere/clouds-article/


http://images.nationalgeographic.com/wpf/media-live/photos/000/012/cache/sunset-thunderstom_1235_600x450.jpg


Clouds form when humid air cools enough for water vapor to condense into droplets or ice crystals. The altitude at which this happens depends on the humidity and the rate at which temperature drops with elevation.

Normally, water vapor can only condense onto condensation nuclei—tiny particles that serve as kernels around which drops can form.

Condensation nuclei are often nothing but natural dust.

But soot particles from automobile exhaust or other types of pollution can also serve the purpose.

One study has found that changing levels of air pollution cause different rates of cloud formation (and rain) on weekends and weekdays, at least in humid climates with lots of cities.

[araucaria]

Thanks Bob. Also, you can look at the situation from the opposite angle. My cousin is a motor-cyclist. One time he told me he actually preferred riding in the rain, despite the hazard, because the air is so much cleaner. Which suggests that possibly the better way to clean the air would be to induce rainfall rather than stop it.

[Bob]

Thanks Bob. Also, you can look at the situation from the opposite angle. My cousin is a motor-cyclist. One time he told me he actually preferred riding in the rain, despite the hazard, because the air is so much cleaner. Which suggests that possibly the better way to clean the air would be to induce rainfall rather than stop it.

I've studied some of the areas around Lagos and Delta State in Nigeria (first hand experience on the ground in Lagos), and the people report that the smog from the flaring from the oil/gas wells definitely has modified the weather.. that it rains and the rain damages the crops due to the acid quantity, and the skin burning (getting sores), from whatever is in the toxic smoke particles..

They're saying they don't like the extra rain induced because it is damaging rain, over there in Nigeria..

In the weather threads, if you have seen those, we've shown some of the weather modifying apparatus, which use nanoparticles, and "blower arrays".. The Dutch system, with the strong turbine with that outreach so far up into the atmosphere if many of those are built and installed in a city, could be able to modify weather, and not just clean the air of smog..

I am concerned about the nanoparticles, moreso than smog induced ozone.. although the reactivity of the ground level ozone is pretty bad, the nanoparticles can get into the dna and induce mutation, and increase cellular "stress" leading to plaque in the arteries and veins. (heart disease)..

It just seems being very informed about the atmosphere, what's in it, what we breath is pretty essential these days. (I do like the ground level low airspeed systems, something one can put outside in the garden, or have a few around a recreational park. I don't think those will mess with weather, but may very well clear the air..

Wonder if those can be installed in the exhaust system of "dirty vehicle" engines??

===update===

thought i would add some notes about rain in Mexico City. Quite some years ago I was able to review the results of a type of radionic-like system which did perform "air cleaning", and the process was to momentarily evoke "particulate capture" and nucleation, thereby capturing the pollution particles and washing such out as "rain". When the system was operating, between 44-52% pollution reduction happened (washed out of the atmosphere).. average about 48%. The rain does clear it out, and that system in particular facilitated smog "clumping" to the water rain. And it washed it out of the air pretty fast, over a 24 hour period.

The issue where continual overload happens in Nigeria, some liken the air pollution from flaring being the equivalent to 60,000 vehicles locally stuck not moving, polluting the air 24/7.. The continual overload isn't able to be easily cleaned with rain.

Scientific American points out world wide pollution from oil well flaring is like having 70,000,000 vehicles stuck in traffic polluting.. nasty stuff.. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/landmark-deal-curbs-flaring-pollution/

Who are these polluters? Here is the worldwide list:


https://www.scientificamerican.com/sciam/assets/Image/gasflares.jpg