At what point did you realize that nothing will change?

[Dennis Leahy]

With obomber, when he picked "old guard" embedded career criminals to be his cabinet, I knew.

trump is doing exactly the same thing, and is reportedly considering sara "drill baby drill" palin to be the Secretary of the Interior (responsible for privatization of public lands, mining, oil, pipelines, fracking, etc.) trump is also considering ben carson for some cabinet level position. If you paid any attention to this guy, besides his alarming desire to forcibly inject every US citizen with vaccines with no exemptions, he is demonstrably a liar and idiot. pence is the new dick cheney, and will double-down on totalitarianism. trump's "great again" catchphrase is Orwellian doublespeak for "unfettered capitalism" and complete deregulation of corporations regardless the environmental and human outcome. Once the military generals and admirals pull him into a room and "explain" how everyone on Earth is a violent jihadist that wants to destroy america, trump will do whatever they recommend - and they recommend eternal war (masked as phony "humanitarian intervention") and a police and security state. trump's nationalism over globalism will erode very quickly, as he is obviously a fear-based reactionary and thus easily manipulated, plus he is surrounding himself with old guard, nefarious, sociopathic cronies.

Oh, by the way, had clinton won, this post would be about the nefarious clinton and HER embedded career criminal cabinet. My major point is that there will be no positive change in the USA, INC. with trump, just as there would have been nothing positive (for the US or for humanity) with a clinton win. (The problem is not half the duopoly; the problem is the duopoly.) It may seem like a big change occurred (because hillary fans are so pissed off), but soon you too will realize that almost nothing will change, and whatever does change will not be good for 99.999% of us.

Anarcho-capitalists that already have large sums of money to use to make more money should be thrilled, and will be financially rewarded in the short term. The rest of us 7.5 billion humans and quadrillions of non-human life forms, not so much.

What just happened was that most US citizens, whipped into an emotional frenzy with fear-based programming, american exceptionalism, and nearly DNA-etched partisan-worship, just took another sleeping pill to enjoy the "american dream" a little longer.

If you disagree with my premise, "At what point did you realize that nothing will change?", that's fine and you're free to post your disagreement here. But do remember this thread, and when you realize that trump was not the shining white knight (extremely white, by the way), that you believed he was, please post that here too.

[wnlight]

I am only looking for a reduced war aggression schedule. Yes, the old guard that Trump is picking says it all. BTW Dennis, you might now call "obomber" "oldbommer".

[Orph]

I realized the nothing will change when JFK was assassinated. I was just a kid at the time, but when LBJ took control, I knew that our political system was run by "bad guys". I could just "feel" it. As far as voting, ..... well, I found out that was a sham when I was in my middle to late twenties. I noticed that the politicians would speak to the common people about what they would do if elected. Then after they were elected you'd hear all kind of excuses as to why they couldn't get things done. Even then you could see the criminal element working behind the scenes.

So I stopped voting a long time ago. In more recent years I came to realize that voting is just another way of giving up your power to somebody, or something (government) else.

------ I'm voting for you, and I give you the right to run my life. I give you the right to tax me for all your needs, whether those needs are legal or not. (war). I give you the right to throw my dumb-a** in jail if I don't agree and comply with the laws that you enact, whether those laws be legal or not. (forced vaccinations). -----

So no, I don't vote. I do not agree to be ruled and governed by anybody. This is supposed to be the land of the free.

[onawah]

Great post, Dennis. Change won't come via politics, that's for sure.
But hopefully it will come.

[3(C)+me]

Before Trump:

Ongoing wars, fear porn, vaccinations, drones, black sites, Monstanto

Zbigniew Brzezinski will come in and read him the riot act and if he doesn't comply he will go the way of JFK or "see this clone, we will replace you and we will still get what we want"

After Trump

Ongoing wars, fear porn, vaccinations, drones, blacks sites, Monstanto



I could write this exact post if Killery won except I would include going to war with Russia.

The only change we will see is if we look outside our window and clean up our own individual mess and disengage from the machine as much as possible.
Get that organic garden going.

[joeecho]

People, in general, have short memories.

http://quotes.lifehack.org/media/quotes/quote-Alphonse-Karr-the-more-things-change-the-more-they-21684.png

Trump won.

Tell them what they've won, Johnny!

http://circlecitygameshows.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/zonk-11.jpg

[Cidersomerset]

I knew there would not be a big change overnight after the election . The main
objective was not to elect Hillary by many , for the 101 reasons on all the threads
etc. Trump was not ideal but he was not Hillary .

As a business man he is going to pick from the pool of people willing to work for
him or serve their country and this is where his initial cabinet will be interesting and
whether he can keep the neo -cons out. There will be offensive choices to some
I suspect.

He is a conciliator and from his exceptance speech to his firstmeeting with Obama
he is showing respect and soaking in the atmosphere probably thinking ( How the
F----' did this really happen ).Though he has belief in what he is trying to do imo

From what I can tell he is as much of a democrat than republican so he should
adapt to one nation policies after the initial attempt at his election promises , some
of which were general and vague. Which is why all the scaremongering at the
moment imo.He is already adapting as he is settling in , some may say 'flip flopping'
others that he is being realistic when given the real facts ...

Its far to early to access anything and need to be given a chance imo.

=================================================

http://static.bbci.co.uk/frameworks/barlesque/3.20.5/orb/4/img/bbc-blocks-dark.png

Trump: Obamacare key provisions to remain

4 hours ago
From the section US Election 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Bj6zR7cNog
==============================================

Donald Trump: We'll keep parts of Obamacare

5Bj6zR7cNog

Published on 11 Nov 2016
President-elect Donald Trump talks about his plans for the Affordable
Healthcare Act in an interview with Lesley Stahl of CBS News.

====================================================
====================================================
====================================================

Some article I posted on turiyas thread yesterday , that illustrate my points ,theres
two months before hes in the white house. If he is not JFD or some other scandal
surfaces....

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?90590-TRANSITIONED-into-Trump&p=1113024&viewfull=1#post1113024


I thought this item amusing from CIA NN , the spooks reading and
analysing first Trump - Obama meeting yesterday .......

---------------------------------------------------------------------

The body language behind the Obama-Trump meeting

6Toeq3kIUVY

Published on 11 Nov 2016

President Obama and President-elect Donald Trump praised each other after their
first meeting, but what did their body language say? Expert Janine Driver explains.

====================================================
====================================================

Bernie Sanders says he will work with Donald Trump

XGZ3Jq7lTVo

Published on 10 Nov 2016

Sen. Bernie Sanders told CNN's Wolf Blitzer he will work with President-elect
Donald Trump on certain issues.

====================================================
====================================================

Rep. Chris Collins: Obamacare will remain for 2017

7Jwunvp04Ps

Published on 11 Nov 2016

Rep. Chris Collins (R-New York) discusses President-elect Donald Trump's plan with
Obamacare, stating that the Affordable Care Act will be around for the first year of
Trump's presidency.

[turiya]

trump is doing exactly the same thing, and is reportedly considering sara "drill baby drill" palin to be the Secretary of the Interior

Dear Dennis

Roger Stone, after having a private meeting with Donald, has said:

"Any of the names you see that have been floated out there for the various positions... whether its Chris Christie, Rudy Giuliani, or Jamie Dimon for Treasury, it not true... It is self-promotion in most cases. You should not read anything into that. No decisions are made, no lists are made... Its wildly premature.

Don't believe whatever you hear from the MSM about who is going to be in the Trump administration... Trump will let everyone know when its time...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5la_qpshiU



What do you mean nothing has changed?

There will be a heterosexual back in the White House as President. The First Lady will actually be a real woman - not a Transgender... His children are his children, not adopted... that's just the tip of the iceberg...


I leave it to John B Wells to say it better than most everybody else that I've heard...

"Look, when you change your transmission on your hot rod, you put in a little bit of the old trans fluid back in - cuz it helps the trans function better..."



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBaJvXAeJ9o

[neutronstar]

Yes, sadly I am beginning to think that you are right. I was hoping for the sake of hope that Trump would offer change. Listening to his speeches, I agreed with a lot of what he said, but there was always a thought that this is just talk. Just like Obummer. Time will tell, but with these appointments it looks like it is business as usual.

[Cidersomerset]

I posted this on a couple threads yesterday...............If Trump can do as suggested
in this article , he would be a better candidate for a noble peace prize than Obama.
But can he get the military to go with him and defeat ISIS ? against decades of
CIA and other agencies and countries mischief ?


This is very promising if this interview is anything to go by.......( Infact it sounds
to good to be true ) :drum:...I suggest Listening to it twice he says a lot and lays it
out including Clintons collusion with the global elites and much more.

Trump has said he has been listening to advisors particularly military and geo
political and if he can ignore the neo -con/dems and the global oligarchs.
Maybe we can get rid of these war mongers and this 9/11 , war on terror false flag
operations started after the neo -con coup backed by Bush 1 after the cold war.

----------------------------------------------------------

'There was movement towards WWIII with Russia': World awaits Trump's future
policy on Middle East

BsbtFuOIUng

Published on 10 Nov 2016

The race is over. Donald Trump is president-elect, defeating HIllary Clinton and
putting a Republican back in the White House. The 2016 election campaign wasn’t
pretty, but it was entertaining. But what's next?

RT LIVE http://rt.com/on-air

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?69621-Ukraine-Crimea-Syria-Israel-Iran-Putin-and-World-War-III&p=1113056&viewfull=1#post1113056

[Ewan]

I actually think I realised before he was elected Dennis, when the FBI lapdog confirmed there was nothing criminal in Hillary's e-mails.

Worse perhaps was the realisation that nothing can change whilst there is a hidden hand, a puppet master - never has the illuminati pyramid seemed so relevant, (and the term illuminati is one I try to avoid as it triggers the accusation 'conspiracy nut' quicker than anything else).

To add to my current sombre frame of mind I'm refreshing my knowledge of the secret societies by reading John Coleman's books again.

[3(C)+me]

Let's go back to when Obama was elected.

The first black president!

A constitutional lawyer!

I even read threads even here that he was maybe the reincarnation of Abe Lincoln.!
Our Man Abe....

Idealism and naivete run amok


4ZUWJJ1kqnc

[Cidersomerset]

To add to my current sombre frame of mind I'm refreshing my knowledge
of the secret societies by reading John Coleman's books again.

Cheer UP Ewan ...Only a Scotsman can be so dour and correct at the same time...LOL

wpUMJC3-2MM


By the way heavy geo - engineering down here Thurs & Friday....

9EH1G4EwljM

[Sueanne47]

The worlds a stage and we are all merely players, Vatican is running *everything* :

-dyUjMQdjfQ

At 16.05 in the video DT is talking about NWO...then that we should stand up to anti-Catholic bias :

Dt7q-PGGntY

[Wind]

I'm sure we'll see soon enough, now won't we?

[wondering]

It has been less than FOUR DAYS since we have had election results....isn't it a little soon to be making dire, concrete predictions? At least any based on facts, which we have precious little access to overall. Let's just take a breath. LOL

[DeDukshyn]

Every four years we get our hopes up, don't we? Reminds me of the second coming ... always "just around the corner", just wait for it ...

No, we have to change the world, by being what we want the world to be in every thought, every conversation, every action, every word spoken. We must change our views, before the view can change. We all want to believe the problem is "out there" to the point that we don't do anything to change, because we don't realize that the only thing we can really affect is to change ourselves. Once we learn to shake off the old coats of automated emotional response, and triggered judgements, we become individually more effective more "awake", more "enlightened"; with this increased effectivity, we will begin to change the "view" automatically, with the little things in our lives. From there this change will begin to quietly spread; love becomes our driver for choice, and fearful decisions that keep us chained to their wishes dissolves and others' control over us dissolves with that.

The change we seek won't come from any politician, no single person can make this change, however, every single person can; and when politicians see that we have changed, their "styles" will also be forced to change.

The reason why Trump won is because he was seen as "anti-establishment" - a perspective that those who have opened their eyes just a little , can relate to. This subtle change that is required is already occurring, it just needs to continue; Trump capitalized on that, but he won't be the change, he recognized that it is occurring in us and used that knowledge to win an election. The good news is that this all points to the fact that this subtle internal change that needs to occur in the masses before real change can actually occur, is happening. :)

[Cidersomerset]

Well things have not changed much and history is always repeating itself.
I was looking at some Robert Vaughn vids as he has just passed over and
what is happening in Syria/Iraq now echoes Vietnam and Robert explains
how the 1956 the South Vietnamese elections were manipulated....


Firing Line with William F. Buckley Jr. "Vietnam"

bH0KMR-odsA

Published on 24 Jan 2014
Full Episode:
http://digitalcollections.hoover.org/...

Taped on June 8, 1967
Guest(s): Robert Vaughn


Death threats....

M7qNBrfKvTk

[Sueanne47]

We could get drunk...and forget it for a bit ~

34577

[Craig]

I don't think I have ever had a point where I believe change will happen? If there was to be change would we still be in this incarnate?

[Satori]

On September 11, 2001. But to put a finer point on it, not long after that date, I realized that things were changing for the worse for Mr. and Mrs. Citizen of Spaceship Earth.

Things change. That is an immutable law of nature. The question is, in what direction is the change perceived as headed. Shall change be perceived as for the better or for the worse? That may be regarded by some as a relative question. It may depend on where one perceives himself or herself fitting into the equation. I personally believe many things are known to persons of average intelligence as clearly right and good, or clearly wrong and bad. Far too often people allow their personal agendas to cloud their judgement and convince themselves that what they know to be bad is good. Good (to them) only because it advances their agenda.

[3(C)+me]

:bump:
Bears repeating.

Every four years we get our hopes up, don't we? Reminds me of the second coming ... always "just around the corner", just wait for it ...

No, we have to change the world, by being what we want the world to be in every thought, every conversation, every action, every word spoken. We must change our views, before the view can change. We all want to believe the problem is "out there" to the point that we don't do anything to change, because we don't realize that the only thing we can really affect is to change ourselves. Once we learn to shake off the old coats of automated emotional response, and triggered judgements, we become individually more effective more "awake", more "enlightened"; with this increased effectivity, we will begin to change the "view" automatically, with the little things in our lives. From there this change will begin to quietly spread; love becomes our driver for choice, and fearful decisions that keep us chained to their wishes dissolves and others' control over us dissolves with that.

The change we seek won't come from any politician, no single person can make this change, however, every single person can; and when politicians see that we have changed, their "styles" will also be forced to change.

The reason why Trump won is because he was seen as "anti-establishment" - a perspective that those who have opened their eyes just a little , can relate to. This subtle change that is required is already occurring, it just needs to continue; Trump capitalized on that, but he won't be the change, he recognized that it is occurring in us and used that knowledge to win an election. The good news is that this all points to the fact that this subtle internal change that needs to occur in the masses before real change can actually occur, is happening. :)

[Ernie Nemeth]

The night before the election, I dared say, "It'd be funny if Trump won." My friend went ballistic. And he's Canadian.

Then Trump won. I was shocked. I thought there was no stopping the Neo-cons and their quickening agenda. Yet here we are.

It is important to remember who voted for him? It certainly wasn't only white males. There must have been a lot of people who secretly agreed with his crudely articulated ideals.

And there must have been a lot of people who loathed the idea of Clinton as president more than a wild-card Trump presidency.

Over-all I don't think this was an anti-establishment vote so much as an anti-policy one.

Dennis, I think you might be more impatient than me. While the populace still believes in this farce of a system, a majority-rule concoction paying lip service to justice and fairness, I am glad they have risen out of their stupor long enough to send an emphatic message to DC: change direction now!

It remains to be seen what the new kid will do with his mandate - or what he'll be allowed to do, or what has been planned all along to do or....

[turiya]

The night before the election, I dared say, "It'd be funny if Trump won." My friend went ballistic. And he's Canadian.

Then Trump won. I was shocked. I thought there was no stopping the Neo-cons and their quickening agenda. Yet here we are.


Ernie Nemeth

If you were paying attention, Trump is no Neo-con. Most, if not all Neo-cons, voted for Hillary.

Trump hesitated in giving support to 'insane' John McCain, Lindsay Graham is another Neo-con loser that hates Donald Trump, and probably voted for Hillary. Neo-con Daddy George H W Bush voted for Hillary Clinton (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/exclusive-george-hw-bush-to-vote-for-hillary-228395)

Hillary is a Neo-con herself. She proudly claims that Henry Kissinger is her friend & mentor. Neo-con Henry Kissisnger is the guy who came up with all this Regime Change foreign policy BS... And Hillary is following that playbook... that's why Libya, that's why Syria, that's why sending ISIS military equipment.


It remains to be seen what the new kid will do with his mandate - or what he'll be allowed to do, or what has been planned all along to do or....

The battle for the presidency has been fought & won by Trump... Now the real war begins.

From Politico article (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/exclusive-george-hw-bush-to-vote-for-hillary-228395):

Many former GOP officials from both Bush administrations have also announced their support for Clinton over Trump, including national security adviser Brent Scowcroft and former Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez.

One Bush official who has taken Trump's side is former Vice President Dan Quayle, who told POLITICO in an interview this summer he was still holding out hope both Bushes would back Trump. "Clearly in their heart of hearts I should hope they would want a Republican president, but they can speak for themselves," Quayle said in an interview in July.

[Patient]

One question that seems to always be around and debated is "How much power does the president actually have?" As Trump came to be president from the position of a business man as opposed to a career politician, I think we will quickly see how much freedom he has to act versus to being controlled.

Watching him throughout his campaign it seems pretty clear that he is not there to be a puppet. Even though many Americans have mixed feelings about what this means for their country, speaking from a person looking in from the outside (and I believe that being outside the USA one sees more than most people on the inside) I think that this may be the 'shake up' that the country needs. It might be a rough ride, but any shake-up is going to be bumpy. I have many friends in the USA and I am really hoping for the best for everyone.

So, even if nothing changes, I think that would be a big statement and maybe that would help to wake up the rest of the sleeping public.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Hi Turiya.

Please read again. When Trump won, the agenda of the Neo-cons was foiled.

[turiya]

Hi Turiya.

Please read again. When Trump won, the agenda of the Neo-cons was foiled.

:blushing: Oh yes, sorry, the double negative 'no stopping' threw me off. Thank you.

[Dennis Leahy]

On September 11, 2001. But to put a finer point on it, not long after that date, I realized that things were changing for the worse for Mr. and Mrs. Citizen of Spaceship Earth.

Things change. That is an immutable law of nature. The question is, in what direction is the change perceived as headed. Shall change be perceived as for the better or for the worse? That may be regarded by some as a relative question. It may depend on where one perceives himself or herself fitting into the equation. I personally believe many things are known to persons of average intelligence as clearly right and good, or clearly wrong and bad. Far too often people allow their personal agendas to cloud their judgement and convince themselves that what they know to be bad is good. Good (to them) only because it advances their agenda.
Right, but that's semantics. Of course there is always change. Maybe I should have said "change from the status quo", but I figured Avalon readers would know that was the topic.

[Bluegreen]

Have not reached that point yet

:)

[quiltinggrandma]

yes dennis,,i agree with you.Sorry folks,,i did not vote because i believe my vote does not count.Half the people in america thinks their vote counted.I agree with several here,that there is a plan in progress.

[Alien Ramone]

I started to wonder if anything would change over the last few days as I read articles about John Bolton being a likely pick for Secretary of State and about members of the establishment being considered for other positions, but The media might just be promoting NWO choices as likely Trump appointees. If Trump actually does appoint Neocon, John Bolton, as Secretary of State and people from Goldman Sachs and other big banks to other positions, then I will expect business as usual.

[Franny]

I'm not so sure presidents pick their people. According to Tufts professor Michael Glennon the US govt is a machine that just keeps rolling no matter who is in the WH, tho he puts it much more eloquently.

https://www.sott.net/article/287681-Vote-all-you-want-the-secret-government-wont-change

[nancy]

For me, it was when he started giving Hillary all those accolades. I think that's when my stomach hit the floor.

[jaybee]

.

when i read the OP of this thread the words that sprang to mind were ...

'Abandon all hope ye who enter here'

Has it come to this that we should abandon hope thereby becoming hopeless..?

I'n not suggesting suddenly everything will instantly change for the better because that's not how it works but to succumb to blanket cynicism is to admit defeat and I don't think that is healthy - or productive -

People all over the world including me were rooting for Trump because we wanted the West to have a better and more respectful relationship with Russia - Clinton was leading the political march to a serious conflict with Russia which was just madness and a huge concern for the planet -

Trump has his work cut out obviously but actively lowering the energy and discouraging hope is aiding and abetting the warmongers, IMO --

.

[jaybee]

'There was movement towards WWIII with Russia': World awaits Trump's future
policy on Middle East

BsbtFuOIUng

Published on 10 Nov 2016




thanks for that Cidersomerset -

it's not going to be easy reeling in the Western Globalist Warmongers who appear to be working with Saudi Arabia to redraw the map of the Middle East in preparation for the next step of their agenda - but at least with Trump as president there is a glimmer of light - with Clinton there was non -

The globalists have shown no mercy towards the citizens of Iraq, Libya and Syria and neither would they towards Western countries who try and step in their way -

.

[Alien Ramone]

I'm not so sure presidents pick their people. According to Tufts professor Michael Glennon the US govt is a machine that just keeps rolling no matter who is in the WH, tho he puts it much more eloquently.

https://www.sott.net/article/287681-Vote-all-you-want-the-secret-government-wont-change

I view it as working differently, because the President can go directly to the people saying who the cabinet picks will be and whether the U.S. is going to engage in a military conflict or not. I have always thought of the NWO as working based on influence, not complete control. Presidents can follow what the NWO wants them to do to their own benefit or reap the consequences, particularly if the NWO has something on them that could bring them down, since the NWO owns the mainstream media. I think that the Clintons and Barack Obama were NWO backed and their VPs and cabinet were probably for the most part chosen for them. I don't think Trump is NWO backed or that Pence was chosen by the NWO. I think the NWO started co-opting Reagan at the point where Reagan was choosing a VP. I will initially base my opinion of whether Trump is co-opted on his cabinet picks.

In relation to the secret government, I view that as being the NWO with their influence on government and with the overseeing of certain projects such as contact with aliens and the secret space program that are funded by the government with money that goes through the Navy budget, but overseen by NWO military contractors and thus inaccessible to the President.

[mgray]

I cannot remember the comedian -- it may have been Bill Hicks who said this -- but either way I believe Donald Trump has viewed the JFK assassination tape from the vantage point of the shooter, not the Zapruder version.

That said, although he is viewed as an outsider, Trump will only be able to effect change on the periphery. But that could be enough to make life more tolerable for us.

The "system" has its own life cycle, and there is not much any one Administration can do towards changing that agenda.

[Pam]

If somehow, we could get Jesus Christ or Buddha in office as president, nothing much would happen or should I say could happen. The system we call our government is so permeated with corruption at so many levels, so riddled with little pockets of self interest that benefiting the citizens is the last thing on the list.

If you voted democrat, you might get a tad more entitlements but really, is it realistic in any way to hope that a system that" loses" the equivalent of 30,000.00 dollars for every man, woman and child in a year is going to get fixed by any one person? I find myself looking at the candidates as which one I could tolerate the most. Which ones face on the National Enquirer in the grocery store will be least offensive. What a crappy way to see things..

There seems to be something inherent in the human race that makes us self destructive. We have so much abundance on this planet. We could all live in wonderful communities, but we ruin it all, or we let someone else ruin it. We stand by while some have way more than they could ever use and others have nothing. I don't get it but it is what we do, whether by commission or omission.

The citizens are angry. I would like to see that anger turned into something constructive and it will not be found on any ballet anywhere on the planet. I would love to know what it is about us humans?

[animovado]

At the moment it became clear that I'm looking in the wrong direction and seeking in places which are just reflecting change, that's actually happening somewhere else, if it's happening at all.
It's not the button, it's the one who's pushing. More and more people are leaving the old paradigm behind and start their own way of living, testing basic democratic ideas in companies,
schools, communities and urban quarters.

[3(C)+me]

.

when i read the OP of this thread the words that sprang to mind were ...

'Abandon all hope ye who enter here'

Has it come to this that we should abandon hope thereby becoming hopeless..?

I'n not suggesting suddenly everything will instantly change for the better because that's not how it works but to succumb to blanket cynicism is to admit defeat and I don't think that is healthy - or productive -

People all over the world including me were rooting for Trump because we wanted the West to have a better and more respectful relationship with Russia - Clinton was leading the political march to a serious conflict with Russia which was just madness and a huge concern for the planet -

Trump has his work cut out obviously but actively lowering the energy and discouraging hope is aiding and abetting the warmongers, IMO --

.

Ya know it is not easy growing up. We look to our parents to show us the way, we let them guide us. Then we have teachers, employers, authority figures and we continue to believe they know what is best for us. We even want to believe when we know they are clueless, liars, ego manics, and have handlers who tell them what has to be done, but still want to believe.

I think the human race has to collectively get to the point where they actually become adults. What shape is my world in and what do I want and do not want. Who am I lying to, how do I not take care of myself, what am I still afraid of.

Do I want to live in fear or peace? Do I want to believe in liars or do I want to get down to dealing with my out personal stuff and fix that, cuz that is the way you are going to change the world. That is the way it has always been.

It's not about "out their" anymore.

[jaybee]

.

when i read the OP of this thread the words that sprang to mind were ...

'Abandon all hope ye who enter here'

Has it come to this that we should abandon hope thereby becoming hopeless..?

I'n not suggesting suddenly everything will instantly change for the better because that's not how it works but to succumb to blanket cynicism is to admit defeat and I don't think that is healthy - or productive -

People all over the world including me were rooting for Trump because we wanted the West to have a better and more respectful relationship with Russia - Clinton was leading the political march to a serious conflict with Russia which was just madness and a huge concern for the planet -

Trump has his work cut out obviously but actively lowering the energy and discouraging hope is aiding and abetting the warmongers, IMO --

.

Ya know it is not easy growing up. We look to our parents to show us the way, we let them guide us. Then we have teachers, employers, authority figures and we continue to believe they know what is best for us. We even want to believe when we know they are clueless, liars, ego manics, and have handlers who tell them what has to be done, but still want to believe.

I think the human race has to collectively get to the point where they actually become adults. What shape is my world in and what do I want and do not want. Who am I lying to, how do I not take care of myself, what am I still afraid of.

Do I want to live in fear or peace? Do I want to believe in liars or do I want to get down to dealing with my out personal stuff and fix that, cuz that is the way you are going to change the world. That is the way it has always been.

It's not about "out their" anymore.

.
while I take the point you are making I don't completely agree that dealing with personal stuff is the whole story and think that we are affected by outside forces as well -

for example when our world is fairly settled in terms of shelter, water, food and various degrees of interaction we have the luxury of concentrating on personal stuff - but say someone in Iraq, Libya or Syria who has had their lives and security completely wrecked by the interference of outside forces - those outside forces dictate a lot of what that person can and can't do --

the build up towards war with Russia is real as far as I can see and probably fits in with the globalization agenda - provocation, limited conflict, wider conflict then a possibility of all out war leading to either invasion of Russia and expansion of Europe or destruction of the West as we know it -

now all our worlds, inner and outer, would be affected by something like this and that's why I believe that Trumps willingness to respect Putin and Russia is a step in the right direction and was one of the reasons he had as much support as he did .. a lot of it outside the US -

I definitely want to live in Peace (inside and out) but I can't personally go and negotiate with Russia and America etc for that - but what I can do is not become totally cynical thereby contributing to negative energy spreading around the collective consciousness like a virus - this doesn't mean becoming happy clappy niave --- just believing that the power of good is there waiting to heal when we are ready - and when we give it a chance -

that Clinton was unsuccessful I take as a hopeful sign that the brakes have been applied a bit and 'we' may actually avoid war with Russia -

:thumb:

.

[Dennis Leahy]

.

when i read the OP of this thread the words that sprang to mind were ...

'Abandon all hope ye who enter here'

Has it come to this that we should abandon hope thereby becoming hopeless..?

I'n not suggesting suddenly everything will instantly change for the better because that's not how it works but to succumb to blanket cynicism is to admit defeat and I don't think that is healthy - or productive -

People all over the world including me were rooting for Trump because we wanted the West to have a better and more respectful relationship with Russia - Clinton was leading the political march to a serious conflict with Russia which was just madness and a huge concern for the planet -

Trump has his work cut out obviously but actively lowering the energy and discouraging hope is aiding and abetting the warmongers, IMO --

.OK, OK... "nothing will change as long as the current system is intact" (and I want to transform it) "Change", change from the status quo, is not possible while the status quo controls the entire electoral paradigm. It is not admitting defeat, it's an awake and honest look at the reality that we allow to continue.

[3(C)+me]

How about this for a hopeful note:
I think we can all see the cracks in the system. We here on this forum can see that the system is really at this point limping along.
Some people can't see that yet, holding on to the old system with it's worn out values and the corruption that is beginning to show itself.

I think for me personally, one of the hardest things is to see how some people are going to lose it, we see it now in the streets. They can't grasp a new way of thinking, they can't process it. They shut down or react.
The pent up emotions along with some mind control programing via smartphones and still deeply stuck in duality so much so they can't see that there are other options.

I have hope for this world, but some damage is going to happen. Some people will not get past being angry and not knowing what to do about it.
This collective screaming may go on for a while.
I think the real change is going to be grass roots, groups of people giving up on government and dealing with things in groups. It will be more efficient more immediate. More home schooling that kind of thing.
Its going to be from the bottom up.

[Sueanne47]

The Jesuit play their Trump card, 'DT is creating his own swamp importing Neocon toads from the swamp he just drained'

'He will make hillary & Obama look good' :

CbtriB71x5E

[Pam]

.

when i read the OP of this thread the words that sprang to mind were ...

'Abandon all hope ye who enter here'

Has it come to this that we should abandon hope thereby becoming hopeless..?

I'n not suggesting suddenly everything will instantly change for the better because that's not how it works but to succumb to blanket cynicism is to admit defeat and I don't think that is healthy - or productive -

People all over the world including me were rooting for Trump because we wanted the West to have a better and more respectful relationship with Russia - Clinton was leading the political march to a serious conflict with Russia which was just madness and a huge concern for the planet -

Trump has his work cut out obviously but actively lowering the energy and discouraging hope is aiding and abetting the warmongers, IMO --

.

Ya know it is not easy growing up. We look to our parents to show us the way, we let them guide us. Then we have teachers, employers, authority figures and we continue to believe they know what is best for us. We even want to believe when we know they are clueless, liars, ego manics, and have handlers who tell them what has to be done, but still want to believe.

I think the human race has to collectively get to the point where they actually become adults. What shape is my world in and what do I want and do not want. Who am I lying to, how do I not take care of myself, what am I still afraid of.

Do I want to live in fear or peace? Do I want to believe in liars or do I want to get down to dealing with my out personal stuff and fix that, cuz that is the way you are going to change the world. That is the way it has always been.

It's not about "out their" anymore.



Great post!! This is a big part of the puzzle.

!

[Helene West]

I think Mark Twain had said if voting mattered we wouldn't be allowed to do it.

[petra]

Something changed for me - I actually feel safer with that asshole as president!! It's like, a great big relief! Perhaps I'll be eating my words - who knows - but the way I see it, change is happening right now. And now. And now also :)