What if TPTB have always been in firm control?

[syrwong]

Now Trump has won and everyone is happy, as can be seen in this forum some 97% supporting Trump.
In another poll in this forum, there is almost exactly half and half split believing Trump is or is not part of the establishment. In the real world certainly, this means the majority of people believe Trump is outside.
Combining the analysis, it means that the majority of people in the world think that the establishment has been defeated and the future should be optimistic.
But what if TPTB have always been in control, and it is the conspiracy that is getting much more sophisticated, much harder for the theorists to discern? I don’t know very much about this, but I can name one possibility that can turn things around.
The people of US do not directly vote for their president. It is the electoral college consisting of 548 members who will decide in 19, Dec the presidency by voting. If they vote by obligation the will of people of their state, Trump will be the president. But if some change their mind, which some states allow, or even if not allowed, their vote will still count and they would be fined $1000 dollars, the outcome may be very different. A few dozen switching vote is needed to make this happen.
The electoral vote is cast anonymously. So it is quite safe to act by what they think is appropriate. It has happened in US history some electors vote differently, but not enough to change the result.
This is a very mad world we live in. Though such a conspiracy is unlikely，it is still a real possibility. How real might it be? I would like to know the opinions of Avalonians.

[Kryztian]

97% of the people here on Avalon do not support Trump. There are certainly differences in how the two presidents are "packaged", how they are presented. Trump presents himself as the Washington outsider, even though he has some sinister connections himself, although they don't compare to the ones you acquire being Secretary of State. He has alluded to 9-11 truth, although, not very convincingly for some of us. He has spoken out vociferously against creepy trade agreements for which I am completely thankful for. But we know that both he and Hillary are card board cutouts, images associated with ideas projected by the media. We know that the President of the United States has the power to effect some positive changes in the world, or to carry out mass atrocitiy. We also know that he or she is surrounded by a very powerful network that frequently crush the will of the President.

We talk about elections on Avalon because we believe that, regardless who wins, there is a war on for our consciousness and the election process is reshaping and redefining how we think. It's a war forged on the one side by a psychopathic elite that know how to subtly manipulate human society through the subtle manipulation of language and images in the main stream, and on the other, by thoughtful, thinking, caring people who are trying to lift the veil of deception. You will find a lot of the latter here.

If you really the that TPTB are in 100% of our destiny and that our situation is hopeless, why not just stay in bed and despair all day long, because running to the computer and creating a post is going to make any difference? But it you think there is at least a glimmer of hope, a shadow of a chance, that We the People of Planet Earth might be able to forge our own destiny, might apply our critical thinking skills to create a more just, verdant, compassionate, truthful World, then please join us here!

[TargeT]

Now Trump has won and everyone is happy, as can be seen in this forum some 97% supporting Trump.

I'd say "support" is a bit too strong of a term.


In another poll in this forum, there is almost exactly half and half split believing Trump is or is not part of the establishment. In the real world certainly, this means the majority of people believe Trump is outside.

They thought Obama was too, nothing new here.. I'm sure Trump is playing ball with the people he needs to to be there.


Combining the analysis, it means that the majority of people in the world think that the establishment has been defeated and the future should be optimistic.

Yea, I think that's a fair conclusion; but only for the US & not everyone in it even, at the same time I'd say the majority of the worlds population does not see this as having anything to do with "the establishment"... the rest of the world is more influenced by our media than we are.


But what if TPTB have always been in control, and it is the conspiracy that is getting much more sophisticated, much harder for the theorists to discern?

You got it! that's exactly what's being going on, since as far back as we have records.


I don’t know very much about this, but I can name one possibility that can turn things around.
The people of US do not directly vote for their president. It is the electoral college consisting of 548 members who will decide in 19, Dec the presidency by voting. If they vote by obligation the will of people of their state, Trump will be the president. But if some change their mind, which some states allow, or even if not allowed, their vote will still count and they would be fined $1000 dollars, the outcome may be very different. A few dozen switching vote is needed to make this happen.
The electoral vote is cast anonymously. So it is quite safe to act by what they think is appropriate. It has happened in US history some electors vote differently, but not enough to change the result.
This is a very mad world we live in. Though such a conspiracy is unlikely，it is still a real possibility. How real might it be? I would like to know the opinions of Avalonians.

Why would it matter if they switched votes?

Every candidate we were offered was a part of "the establishment" in some way...

[syrwong]

I was not talking about hope or no hope. There is always hope in any circumstances, whatever state the world is in. I am just alerting that TPTB may not be as many think defeated. One must not underestimate the enemy and think that some disclosure by Wikileak is enough to bring down the elites. The wicked conspiracy may be deeper and more complex than we think. It is always better to overestimate than to underestimate your enemy .

[syrwong]

Why would it matter if they switched votes?

Every candidate we were offered was a part of "the establishment" in some way...

Very true, actually in almost the same way. Just that I find it strange this is not the dominant thinking here, as shown by the poll.

[lucidity]

many of us are _hopeful_ that Trump, despite the obviously adverse publicity, ends up being
a 'white hat' president. But time will tell... He's not done anything yet... he's not been sworn in.
Some important questions are:

=> Will he proceed with the pre-plans for a war with Russia ?
=> Will he stop the CIA funding of terrorists and mercenaries in Syria ?
=> Will he pursue a prosecution of the extant corruption in DOJ, CIA, FBI ?
=> Will the Clintons be prosecuted given the volumes of wikileaks evidence ?
=> Will he open a 9/11 enquiry... will there be 9/11 disclosure ?
=> Will he continue to export terrorism around the globe.. as has been the
USA's 'traditional' role ?

In my humble opinion, he needs to break up the corrupt relationships between
Wall Street and Congress and the Senate. He also needs to figure out a way
to make 'the press' free and independent. At the moment, the press is a play
thing and weapon of the Cabal. The mega media corporations need breaking
up such that each sub-company has less than 5% or 10% of the market.

He also needs to bring in very severe penalties for corruption in public office...
those penalties should include imprisonment. If trump begins to address the corruption issue.. he will be a hero to millions.

[syrwong]

many of us are _hopeful_ that Trump, despite the obviously adverse publicity, ends up being
a 'white hat' president. But time will tell... He's not done anything yet... he's not been sworn in.
Some important questions are:

=> Will he proceed with the pre-plans for a war with Russia ?
=> Will he stop the CIA funding of terrorists and mercenaries in Syria ?
=> Will he pursue a prosecution of the extant corruption in DOJ, CIA, FBI ?
=> Will the Clintons be prosecuted given the volumes of wikileaks evidence ?
=> Will he open a 9/11 enquiry... will there be 9/11 disclosure ?
=> Will he continue to export terrorism around the globe.. as has been the
USA's 'traditional' role ?

In my humble opinion, he needs to break up the corrupt relationships between
Wall Street and Congress and the Senate. He also needs to figure out a way
to make 'the press' free and independent. At the moment, the press is a play
thing and weapon of the Cabal. The mega media corporations need breaking
up such that each sub-company has less than 5% or 10% of the market.

He also needs to bring in very severe penalties for corruption in public office...
those penalties should include imprisonment. If trump begins to address the corruption issue.. he will be a hero to millions.

This is from the view that Trump is opposed to the establishment, as indicated by his election speeches. Even if this is true, I would think all the items are hard to achieve. These will require a fearless president who believes in the people and acts for the well being of the people. So far America has lacked one.

[TargeT]

This is from the view that Trump is opposed to the establishment, as indicated by his election speeches. Even if this is true, I would think all the items are hard to achieve. These will require a fearless president who believes in the people and acts for the well being of the people. So far America has lacked one.

Hope sure is addictive though, ain't it?


Sure seems like this time around we got a nice juicy drama filled election... which so far (other than a few small riots) hasn't actually produced anything.

No convictions anyway.

so in reality, we are basically exactly where we started, but maybe a bit more divided.

Trump is saying a lot of nice things, but I've heard nice things from pres-elect's before... I'll be impressed when nice things are done.

[Flash]

Yes, I have a strange feeling of many "déjà vu" with both of your comments.

When Bush II was elected (as if Bush I had not been enough in itself to ensure down to earth no change, only getting worst), and still more when Obama was first elected, the same feeling happened in people's hearts. Do we lose our memory with addiction? Or do we prefer to remember only the addiction rush?





This is from the view that Trump is opposed to the establishment, as indicated by his election speeches. Even if this is true, I would think all the items are hard to achieve. These will require a fearless president who believes in the people and acts for the well being of the people. So far America has lacked one.

Hope sure is addictive though, ain't it?


Sure seems like this time around we got a nice juicy drama filled election... which so far (other than a few small riots) hasn't actually produced anything.

No convictions anyway.

so in reality, we are basically exactly where we started, but maybe a bit more divided.

Trump is saying a lot of nice things, but I've heard nice things from pres-elect's before... I'll be impressed when nice things are done.

[norman]

I think Trump has a limited range of things he can do to please the crowd who voted for him. Some of those things will be very hard to do and will require his genius to get it done properly. One of those is locking up the lower hanging crooks in Washington. Right now he has to avoid any talk of such things, but I think he will lock a few of them up eventually, but not very many.

At some level, the lower hanging crooks are connected to the network of higher level crooks. Charging into a prosecution mission with big muddy boots will kill his own presidency before he gets his foot in the door. Hillary has always threatened to take everyone else down with her if she goes down. Trump knows how that would play out. He's not stupid enough to get these things in the wrong sequence. Well, that's what I think, anyway.

[Satori]

I do not think there are any "ifs" about it. They have been, are, and will continue to be in " firm control." The coming global economic/financial/monetary re-set will enable them to maintain that control, to one degree or another.

[TigaHawk]

It's been proven that 99% of statistics are completely made up numbers!

People would like to believe that Trump is outside of the system, based on his election campaign.

I wonder how long it will take to really sink into peoples heads that people will say and promise whatever they feel will get them the votes, and once in power do whatever the hell they feel like because they are now in power and dont need the ok / support of the people that got them there any longer.

The entire system is rigged / defunct / never ever ever going to serve the purpose of the people and needs to be demolished and a new system - perhaps one that forces everyone to have a say so the real will of the people is enacted. That being said they need to demolish religion first, as those self righteous religious people that like condemning one group of people for wanting equal rights whilst running around eating seafood and bearing tattoo's would interfere with rational decision making.

[Inversion]

Ted Kennedy told George Green that they control both the Republicans and Democrats. It's just another system that provides an illusion of duality. The TPTB win either way because they stack the deck.

[ghostrider]

I think he is a true outsider, the other billionaire tycoons worked against him ... the pattern history has show is anyone that has good intentions for the whole of humanity is constantly attacked, killed, betrayed, shot at , crucified, lied about , put in jail, banished to an island all alone,i say just look back at history... the greater the message / potential for change , the greater the kick back ... snowen -hiding in a foriegn country , Julian assange hiding in foreign embassy, Edward Meier hiding in th remote swiss mountains, our own Bill Ryan up in the mountains of ecuador, these men must use care when , where, and how they travel...Avalon has had her share of cyber attacks, the world is not fully ready for the red pill ...

[Bubu]

I think he is a true outsider, the other billionaire tycoons worked against him ... the pattern history has show is anyone that has good intentions for the whole of humanity is constantly attacked, killed, betrayed, shot at , crucified, lied about , put in jail, banished to an island all alone,i say just look back at history... the greater the message / potential for change , the greater the kick back ... snowen -hiding in a foriegn country , Julian assange hiding in foreign embassy, Edward Meier hiding in th remote swiss mountains, our own Bill Ryan up in the mountains of ecuador, these men must use care when , where, and how they travel...Avalon has had her share of cyber attacks, the world is not fully ready for the red pill ...

I do think he is an outsider for now. but it really does not matter whether he is an outsider or otherwise. He will either be turned into an insider or turned into another JFK. trump is the kind that will be turned into an insider and it suites very well with the PTB. He will be allowed to do his thing while people are still watching intently. Once he gained the reputation of pro people he will be "pulled into a room" and made an offer he cannot resist. Having the first impression as pro people it will be difficult to notice the change. So while he is already working for the PTB people believe that he is on their side That would be a neat trick to gain followers as oppose to hillarys stinking reputation. Does not surprise me that trump won despite being an outsider.
People should realize or remember that its not the president that runs america and most countries.Although more and more people are seeing through the veil and more and more gets the balls to defy the PTB. Like our president. Luckily our president is the kind that wont be turned into an insider.

[Cara]

As some have said above, Trump is still president-elect and has not done anything much yet to prove whether he is or is not "establishment".

So there is not much evidence to make a judgement yet, however there are some early indications:

1. Trump is setting up a transition team and we have some ideas about who the people are who are on it.

Here is commentary from The Corbett Report about this team:
Meet the Neocons, 9/11 Criminals and Goldman Bankers On Team Trump (https://www.corbettreport.com/meet-the-neocons-911-criminals-and-goldman-bankers-on-team-trump/)
https://www.corbettreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/nif_teamtrump.jpg
It's pretty clear what James Corbett's view is from this! One could counter that there is no-one else in Washington D.C. political circles for Trump to call on so this might be who he has to work with in the interim. It's up to the individual to make this determination or.... wait and see.

2. There is a stock market response - this can be (but is not always) an indication or indirect proxy of establishment ties as it often represents establishment confidence/views as they are the main buyers / owners of market instruments.

From 11 Nov 2016:

Dow Posts Best Week Since 2011 after Donald Trump Election Win (http://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/11/us-markets.html)
Next up for Trump Rally: Bulls Look for New S&P 500 High (http://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/10/next-up-for-trump-rally-bulls-look-for-new-sp-500-high.html)

From 14 Nov 2016:

Bond Selloff Abates as Dollar Retreats, Asian Stocks Stabilize (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-14/futures-outside-japan-tip-more-stock-losses-as-bond-rout-endures)
Trump Tech Meltdown Hits Fourth Day With Amazon Cut by $35 Billion (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-14/trump-tech-meltdown-hits-fourth-day-as-amazon-cut-by-35-billion)


So it would seem equity markets went up with the exception of Tech Stocks, which are in "meltdown" - not surprising given their strong and obvious support for Hillary Clinton. I don't really understand currency and bond trading that well to make a guess at what the trends here indicate.

Zerohedge had an article (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-07/your-complete-guide-election-night-what-watch-and-when) that included market strategy trading guidance documents from Goldman Sachs (chart 1 (http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2016/11/06/gs%20guide%201_0.png) and 2 (http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2016/11/06/gs%20guide%202_0.png)) and Credit Suisse (chart 1 (http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2016/11/06/survival%20guide%201_0.jpg), 2 (http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2016/11/06/survival%20guide%202_0.jpg) and 3 (http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2016/11/06/survival%20guide%203_0.jpg)). These can be used to see there will be ups and downs in different areas of the market depending on who won based on predicted policy.

It can also be interpreted to indicate that the establishment is not a single monolithic body but has different parties with different agendas at various levels.


And with that, into the realm of opinion....

3. There were one or two commentators who thought Trump represented a faction of the deep state.


First Joseph P. Farrell who talked about his speculation that Trump represented a dissatisfied faction of the deep state in his interview with Dark Journalist:
DEEP STATE OCCULT ELECTION 2016 - DARK JOURNALIST & DR. JOSEPH FARRELL (https://youtu.be/22x04yDk5yw)
Second, Charles Hugh Smith, economic commentator, who felt that the nature and targeting of the leaks against Hilary Clinton, indicated deep state involvement AGAINST HER and therefore, FOR TRUMP:
These Blast Points on Hillary's Campaign... Only The Deep State Is So Precise (http://www.oftwominds.com/blogoct16/Hillary-blast-points10-16.html)
If one reads/interprets the recent Dr. Steve Pieczenik videos (https://www.youtube.com/user/stevepieczenik) about US take-over in favour of Trump as a PsyOp (which some do), this is further evidence of deep state support for Trump.


My Personal Opinion:
I would like Trump to be a change for the better, but having seen the machinations of the power players and their agendas play out, I am not hopeful that he is anti-establishment. I tend to agree with the posts above and in other threads that read the situation as a pre-scripted drama that plays the audience - i.e. everyone but the power players.

We shall see. In my corporate career, we used to say:

Keep your expectations low. Then you can be pleasantly surprised when things turn out better than expected.

[Sueanne47]

Neo-Fascism is all the rage in Europe, and its coming to America :

http://www.salon.com/2015/12/08/fascism_is_all_the_rage_in_europe_and_its_coming_to_america/

[norman]

https://www.corbettreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/nif_teamtrump.jpg

Oh dear........

Alex Jones must be spitting lumps. At this rate, Dick Cheney had better be standing by his phone.

On the other hand, could it be possible that he's building a team that knows where all the bodies are buried ?

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[TargeT]

On the other hand, could it be possible that he's building a team that knows where all the bodies are buried ?




Hope sure is addictive though, ain't it?



hahaha, great example ;)

[Sueanne47]

https://www.corbettreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/nif_teamtrump.jpg

Oh dear........

Alex Jones must be spitting lumps. At this rate, Dick Cheney had better be standing by his phone.

On the other hand, could it be possible that he's building a team that knows where all the bodies are buried ?

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/image/jpeg;base64,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 WeMD94+grpD9lNOaaI3lql3cIOYB+zB/m9fy+tVq5n0tMunpHMNCZ57fuEgZnB8O1c8fOrwaJqW3d9zlx7iupWunGCIKBFEBwI7dAij8OaTcgR8DP41lrMm+jTP496OSSwSw 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He's a Jesuit like his father!! he's *definately* with establishment.

[syrwong]

I don't know what the establishment is, but I think in the world of politics it is very big and that it is very hard to be outside. If you are outside, you must be a church mouse compared to those inside.

[Atlas]

What if We Never Travel Faster Than Light?
3WtgmT5CYU8