Left and Right - It seems so obvious!

[enfoldedblue]

So we are witnessing a deepening division in humanity that is particularly highlighted (but not limited to) the US. We have the left wing liberal perspective and the right wing conservative perspective. What is interesting is that because of the internet we can see each camp more easily than before, however, most who identify with a particular camp largely only expose themselves to the ideology of that camp. This creates a situation where they tend to see only the negative aspects of the opposing camp and the positives are neglected. For example in the left camp the right is portrayed being made up of racist, sexist homophobes with low IQ, and in the right camp the left is portrayed as being made up of socialist, money hating bleeding hearts with loose moral standards.

However, in reality both sides hold their share of positives and the healthiest perspective would obviously be one that married the two. We are being pitted against one another and I am sure everyone here knows why this is happening and who benefits.

So I am wondering what is stopping people from seeing this obvious situation and what can we do to stop people polarising politics. I would guess the first step would be look at ourselves on an individual level and recognize where we have internalised polarized perspectives.

Any other ideas?

[Sueanne47]

Is kindness, understanding and love ~lost in the process? its got that way. Its idolatry gone mad, no common sense, no investigation of what is really going on behind the scenes.

[DeDukshyn]

We can tell people what is really happening with the polarizing of these ends of the spectrum. Divide and Conquer, except we perpetually do it ourselves en mass for those who it benefits. Embarrassing.

When someone asks me what my political alignment is, most expect me to state my position on the sliding scale from Left to Center to Right. Sorry, I won't be caged into assisting perpetration of the divide and conquer strategies. I agree with particular points along that entire spectrum, and I am "wise" enough to know that such broad sweeping "views" are rarely good for "all" situations - meaning that in some scenarios one political point of view may be best, but in another, it may not be. Each issue, each arena would need to be defined. Saying a "liberal" or a "conservative" point of view is "better" in a sweeping generalization, is just a hair above useless completely.

These two "wings" are used to keep the rulers in power and keep their masses from complaining too much. When people get sick and tired of how conservative policies are destroying their country, they then vote in a liberal ... then when the liberal policies begin destroying a country, people vote conservative. But no one seems concerned that their countries are being destroyed, because they can always vote in the other party when things get "too bad". The rulers count on the polarization to continue to implement their grandiose plans of world domination, some of which require support from a liberal mindset to implement, and some that require a conservative mindset -- they just implement items that would have the most support under whatever ruling party happens to be in power. They could care less about your political alignment, as long as the ruling party changes power every few years to A) provide hope and sense of change for the people who are watching nasty things happen in their country or in the name of their country, seen as "implemented" by the ruling party - this keeps people "under control" when the supposed policies of the ruling party become unfavorable to the masses, and B) ensure thir plans move ahead unhindered whether what they want implemented is "Leftist" based or "Rightist" based. The rulers at this level are plenty smart enough to know that no one wing of the spectrum will get them their global domination -- they are agnostic to it completely - as you see it is a tool "they" crafted (long ago) to meet their ends. They see it like a farmer would utilize any tool to keep easy control of his "farm". ADDITION: Imagine cows aligning themselves with a tool that the farm uses to keep them in control, and then staunchly defending the tool, lets say the branding iron, and criticizing and talking down to the "idiotic" pigs who have aligned themselves with with their pigpen, who in turn think the same about the cows. This exactly what I think when I hear people engaged in "left vs right" arguments. It's really that stupid, and I actually get embarrassed for those people.

My hopes would be that once people are educated on this and can see it in action (because with this distinction, it becomes glaringly obvious that this is the case), then they will quietly lose their programmed fanboyism and start thinking with their brain again instead of mindlessly and lazily "aligning" themselves, which is actually just a depreciation of their ability to choose across the entire range of valid point of views - scenario dependent.

Again, my alignment? None. None whatsoever. I tend to appreciate many "leftist" points of views, but at the same time, those views aren't necessarily socialist, but some are, and I personally reject socialism if it is implemented past a certain point. I think everyone should have the right to bear arms, and that is a staunchly conservative view.

So let us throw off these old useless coats of programmed alignments and open our eyes to the spectrum of choices, and points of view, as they might apply to any specific scenario ... if we can do this en mass, we will have taken back a significant amount amount of power we have been "tricked" (or lulled, perhaps) into giving them directly through these divide and conquer methodologies they use against the masses.

[TargeT]

This video is so handy, I've used it dozens of times...

dbh5l0b2-0o

From the first 10 min of that, we know that the brain PHYSICALLY responds when a strongly held belief is challenged (and the validity of the belief is completely subjective to the individual who holds it).

We know that unless the person is very self aware (rare) that they will slip into a state of "fight or flight" response, a reptilian-brain response, and lose short term memory & even react aggressively (see all the HRC supporter videos from this cycle)

So what can you do?

I've tried a few things, but it seems custom to the individual,their level of belief and how /what the belief was formed on. Not an easy solution.

I think it's more important to try and change how these beliefs are set in the first place, and a big part of that is "the media".

[Sueanne47]

Well said DeDukshyn :star:

[enfoldedblue]

Yes Sueanne47 I agree that love, kindness and understanding are key and it is a good reminder that these are aspects that most people regardless of where they place themselves on the polarity hold dear. Really we have more commonalities than differences...we all want to be able to feel safe, to be self-determined, to have opportunities for growth and betterment.
Thanks Dedukshyn for laying it out clearly. I agree :) .

TargetT I look forward to watching that video when I have the chance I looks interesting. And of course you are right about the media!!!

[Sueanne47]

34592

Peace & love dear brothers & sisters.. :bearhug:

[Bubu]

This video is so handy, I've used it dozens of times...

dbh5l0b2-0o

From the first 10 min of that, we know that the brain PHYSICALLY responds when a strongly held belief is challenged (and the validity of the belief is completely subjective to the individual who holds it).

We know that unless the person is very self aware (rare) that they will slip into a state of "fight or flight" response, a reptilian-brain response, and lose short term memory & even react aggressively (see all the HRC supporter videos from this cycle)

So what can you do?

I've tried a few things, but it seems custom to the individual,their level of belief and how /what the belief was formed on. Not an easy solution.

I think it's more important to try and change how these beliefs are set in the first place, and a big part of that is "the media".

I think you are correct about the media and of course we have the formal education. How they do it is to promote fear of death and the illusion of separate and especial self (ego). People will give up freedom cause of fear of death. when ego is active its easy to pit people against one another. Also once the false truth is planted on a person its almost impossible for that person to accept that there can be other truth other than what he/she believes in. As far as I can see movies and news promote two things mainly; fear of death and competition.

I dont know about the video its something that I/we cant verify what I know is that mushrooms and the likes aids in the thinking process such that the person is able to see the truth. It has to be banned at all cost.

In the end its all boils down to "be the changed you wanted to see". be an example its the best way to educate.

[Ashy67]

When you have polarised political views each stand point can never be fully inclusive to everyone. It's tough to be completely inclusive because obviously someone will not agree with you. A shift in human consciousness is needed to allow a selfless stand point prevail and then maybe we can start from a new position. :happythumbsup:

[geobru]

The American eagle has two wings, a right wing and a left wing. In order to fly it needs both wings. Have you ever seen an eagle or any bird fly with only one wing?

[Dennis Leahy]

...However, in reality both sides hold their share of positives and the healthiest perspective would obviously be one that married the two. We are being pitted against one another and I am sure everyone here knows why this is happening and who benefits.

So I am wondering what is stopping people from seeing this obvious situation and what can we do to stop people polarising politics. I would guess the first step would be look at ourselves on an individual level and recognize where we have internalised polarized perspectives.

Any other ideas?It is polarized on purpose. We the people have absolutely no control over elections at all. All control is in duopoly hands. They want us to stay with the concept, the dichotomy, the binary choice that is no choice at all.

In my mind, the way to destroy the polarization is NOT the rank and file members of the two "rival" political gangs getting along together, or "blending" what they are told are the ideological differences of the two (faux opponent) camps. The way to destroy the polarization is to destroy all political parties. "Outlaw"/disallow political parties (and have "the people", not duopoly party insiders, running elections - every aspect.) No parties means every candidate is an independent (and, to see any real change, these people also must not be Elite-aligned corporate shills.) We would then find that there are almost never just 2 sides to any issue, there are many sides. Without the binary infrastructure (and binary loyalty), all the sides of an issue could be examined.

"Policking" is the artificial bickering, the backroom "deal-making", (and lots of shadowboxing), of 2 parties. No parties would be the end of "politics." There is no job opening for "politician"; we hire (or should be hiring) legislators, executives, and judicial branch members. The dubious (and often illegal) "politicking" going on in back rooms would be eliminated.

[Marikins]

Dennis Leahy, this is brilliant:

"In my mind, the way to destroy the polarization is NOT the rank and file members of the two "rival" political gangs getting along together, or "blending" what they are told are the ideological differences of the two (faux opponent) camps. The way to destroy the polarization is to destroy all political parties."

I believe we should vote on all significant matters ourselves, and your system would help us elect custodians of the lesser matters.

[ceetee9]

When someone asks me what my political alignment is, most expect me to state my position on the sliding scale from Left to Center to Right. Sorry, I won't be caged into assisting perpetration of the divide and conquer strategies. I agree with particular points along that entire spectrum, and I am "wise" enough to know that such broad sweeping "views" are rarely good for "all" situations - meaning that in some scenarios one political point of view may be best, but in another, it may not be. Each issue, each arena would need to be defined. Saying a "liberal" or a "conservative" point of view is "better" in a sweeping generalization, is just a hair above useless completely.
I'm with you DeDukshyn. I refuse to be categorized. No party has a corner on all the good ideas. I evaluate a principle or idea based on its merits and decide for myself whether I believe it is a good or bad idea regardless of whether it came from the left or the right.

Without question the two party system is a dinosaur that is used to divide and conquer and to control and manipulate the masses, but I also think the majority of people like, or at least tolerate, the system because it enables them to abdicate their responsibility to think. You simply join a party that you've been programmed to believe espouses your particular views and beliefs and, voila, no need to think. You just pull the lever for the candidates of, and the bills supported by, your party and then go on about your business. It's really quite a beautiful system of control for the elite when you think about it. Oh yeah, that's right, the masses aren't going to think about it. And that is why we will continue to ride the Conservative versus Liberal Merry-Go-Round and continue to expect a different result/"change" election after election after election. :bounce:

[conk]

A universal constant is that of different states of the same thing. A range, a continuum, a scale from this to that. There is no light and darkness. There is light or an absence of light. No hot or cold, only heat or absence of heat. So, there is no left or right, only a positional point on the scale of ideology.

[lunaflare]

The American eagle has two wings, a right wing and a left wing. In order to fly it needs both wings. Have you ever seen an eagle or any bird fly with only one wing?

Nope, never seen this geobru.
When "wings" are mentioned, I think of the stage metaphor penned by Shakespeare (As You Like It):

All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances....(etc.).

I find I enter and exit from both wings and my world view is shaped by these experiences. My stage (perspective/experience) is therefore in a constant state of transformation.

These days, I hold varying view points that may fit with a Republican or Democrat.
Interestingly, as the social mores of the world change, I find Democrats more conservative in their viewpoints.
For example; issues relating to immigration, gun control and abortion.

I would venture to say that a balanced left brain/right brain approach to life, leads to peace and calm.
But Drama/Comedy/Tragedy seem to be part of our current script; our personal and collective play, in which we are the players.
If we so choose.

[TargeT]

by Shakespeare (As You Like It):

All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances....(etc.).


How profound is that collection of words.


We put on a mask to goto work, to be in public, when our fiends visit (that's the only time you TRULY clean your house, right?)

We wear makeup, we wear cloths that alter the perception of others to us ( why else would we pick them unless they make us "look good")

We even act and say things differently depending on the context, on our environment (Why was this trump election such a surprise?... Thte "silent" (too socially embarrassed) trump supporters), well maybe it was just media collusion.. those waters are a bit too muddied to say for sure.


But this speaks to a powerful truth about the lies we tell each-other, a very interesting facet of sociology.

[Chester]

The American eagle has two wings, a right wing and a left wing. In order to fly it needs both wings. Have you ever seen an eagle or any bird fly with only one wing?

No, but I sure have seen birds grounded by broken wings.

[enfoldedblue]

Thanks everyone for your interesting comments. I have been very busy the last little while and haven't been able to contribute much. However, when I logged in today I saw the thread started by Whiskey Mystic and thought of how it is an example of the effects of the divide and conquer propaganda that is being spread. The thread was about a member who had referred to people who identify with the left as wastes of flesh...or something like that. That made me think of the dangers of dehumanizing people who think differently. When we cease to feel compassion or try to understand the other side it becomes easy to perceive them as less than, which can quickly translate to not worthy of existence which easily leads to human atrocities.

In fact I think that most human problems are connected to self-worth. From a higher perspective we are all expressions of the divine and innately worthy for nothing more than that. However in this society we are taught that worth is something that is earned, not something innate. So deep down everyone grapples with issues of self-worth. In order to prove our worth we strive for external things that society has assigned worth to. Instead of being driven by passion we are often driven by a sense of lack. This creates a situation where we believe that we can raise our own value through devaluing another which is a really sad state of affairs.

[DeDukshyn]

Thanks everyone for your interesting comments. I have been very busy the last little while and haven't been able to contribute much. However, when I logged in today I saw the thread started by Whiskey Mystic and thought of how it is an example of the effects of the divide and conquer propaganda that is being spread. The thread was about a member who had referred to people who identify with the left as wastes of flesh...or something like that. That made me think of the dangers of dehumanizing people who think differently. When we cease to feel compassion or try to understand the other side it becomes easy to perceive them as less than, which can quickly translate to not worthy of existence which easily leads to human atrocities.

In fact I think that most human problems are connected to self-worth. From a higher perspective we are all expressions of the divine and innately worthy for nothing more than that. However in this society we are taught that worth is something that is earned, not something innate. So deep down everyone grapples with issues of self-worth. In order to prove our worth we strive for external things that society has assigned worth to. Instead of being driven by passion we are often driven by a sense of lack. This creates a situation where we believe that we can raise our own value through devaluing another which is a really sad state of affairs.

It was that exact post that was the catalyst for me to comment both there and here. :) I had assumed it was the same for you, given the timing. :) Interesting thing, "timing" ...

[enfoldedblue]

Thanks everyone for your interesting comments. I have been very busy the last little while and haven't been able to contribute much. However, when I logged in today I saw the thread started by Whiskey Mystic and thought of how it is an example of the effects of the divide and conquer propaganda that is being spread. The thread was about a member who had referred to people who identify with the left as wastes of flesh...or something like that. That made me think of the dangers of dehumanizing people who think differently. When we cease to feel compassion or try to understand the other side it becomes easy to perceive them as less than, which can quickly translate to not worthy of existence which easily leads to human atrocities.

In fact I think that most human problems are connected to self-worth. From a higher perspective we are all expressions of the divine and innately worthy for nothing more than that. However in this society we are taught that worth is something that is earned, not something innate. So deep down everyone grapples with issues of self-worth. In order to prove our worth we strive for external things that society has assigned worth to. Instead of being driven by passion we are often driven by a sense of lack. This creates a situation where we believe that we can raise our own value through devaluing another which is a really sad state of affairs.

It was that exact post that was the catalyst for me to comment both there and here. :) I had assumed it was the same for you, given the timing. :) Interesting thing, "timing" ...

Actually speaking of timing...did you notice the time this thread was initially posted (ps I didn't do it on purpose...lol)

[DeDukshyn]

Thanks everyone for your interesting comments. I have been very busy the last little while and haven't been able to contribute much. However, when I logged in today I saw the thread started by Whiskey Mystic and thought of how it is an example of the effects of the divide and conquer propaganda that is being spread. The thread was about a member who had referred to people who identify with the left as wastes of flesh...or something like that. That made me think of the dangers of dehumanizing people who think differently. When we cease to feel compassion or try to understand the other side it becomes easy to perceive them as less than, which can quickly translate to not worthy of existence which easily leads to human atrocities.

In fact I think that most human problems are connected to self-worth. From a higher perspective we are all expressions of the divine and innately worthy for nothing more than that. However in this society we are taught that worth is something that is earned, not something innate. So deep down everyone grapples with issues of self-worth. In order to prove our worth we strive for external things that society has assigned worth to. Instead of being driven by passion we are often driven by a sense of lack. This creates a situation where we believe that we can raise our own value through devaluing another which is a really sad state of affairs.

It was that exact post that was the catalyst for me to comment both there and here. :) I had assumed it was the same for you, given the timing. :) Interesting thing, "timing" ...

Actually speaking of timing...did you notice the time this thread was initially posted (ps I didn't do it on purpose...lol)

Well I'm in a way different timezone, but I assume 11:11 for you :) Very interesting indeed ...

[enfoldedblue]

Haha I didn't even think of the time zones. Sorry for my localcentricity :) Yes here in my time zone it is 11:11

[Baby Steps]

So we are witnessing a deepening division in humanity that is particularly highlighted (but not limited to) the US. We have the left wing liberal perspective and the right wing conservative perspective. What is interesting is that because of the internet we can see each camp more easily than before, however, most who identify with a particular camp largely only expose themselves to the ideology of that camp. This creates a situation where they tend to see only the negative aspects of the opposing camp and the positives are neglected. For example in the left camp the right is portrayed being made up of racist, sexist homophobes with low IQ, and in the right camp the left is portrayed as being made up of socialist, money hating bleeding hearts with loose moral standards.

However, in reality both sides hold their share of positives and the healthiest perspective would obviously be one that married the two. We are being pitted against one another and I am sure everyone here knows why this is happening and who benefits.

So I am wondering what is stopping people from seeing this obvious situation and what can we do to stop people polarising politics. I would guess the first step would be look at ourselves on an individual level and recognize where we have internalised polarized perspectives.

Any other ideas?

This is very important. We have seen , with the recent election, a proliferation of hysterical material from the extremes, together with fake news on both sides. I personally have experienced , as many, the low to no quality of some of the news that pops up on social media. One, as a careful consumer of news, becomes more cautious as to what one can believe, and one needs to confirm and research more, as the overall quality deteriorates.

There is also the ‘echo tunnel’ phenomenon, whereby one can become polarised, if one’s feed is more from one side or the other. I applaud face book for providing opposite viewpoints below an item, this is helpful. I do not agree with any kind of censorship, and we can see that the ‘false news’ meme is driven by partisan forces who will not recognise the bias, manipulation, and disinformation on more mainstream platforms.

From a philosophical viewpoint, the political spectrum from right to left is a personal judgement between a more individualistic and self reliant view to a more collectivised social view. Any evaluation of our societies will see a balance somewhere in the middle, and the individual may feel more inclined to one pole or the other, and wish to take society in one direction or the other, but ultimately the question for that individual is – what do the majority want? Again it is somewhere in the middle, and that is how I feel. But seeking a balance or accommodation between polarities for it’s own sake is sterile, because that leaves out TRUTH. So many people, when looking at the political scene, think that they can arrive at a view, by considering the spectrum of viewpoints, and selecting one that feels right for them.

This is when they are caught in the false left-right paradigm. It is a distraction from TRUTH. People increasingly are employing their own critical thinking to what is going on and coming to conclusions that are not supported by many (or any) of the mainstream left-right commentators.

That does not make them extremists, just critical thinkers. If, for example, one decided that Trump had made the most coherent foreign policy statements to come out of Washington since the second world war, that is a viewpoint that is defensible, but one could fall into the trap of taking on board the entire Trump policy dogma, some of which may be bonkers, and getting sucked back into silly debates.
If, for example, one believed that 9-11 was an inside job, and one surveyed the political landscape looking for a ‘shade’ of opinion that supported this idea, one could be labelled a dangerous extremist.
Our Political discourse is dangerously built on falsehood. Whether we are inclined to use tax to support socialised medicine or not is less important that the fact that the whole system is rigged to divert us from the truth, and what our political discourse desperately needs is an injection of TRUTH on all subjects. It is so heavily corrupted that it is in danger of becoming an irrelevant puppet show.

[Sueanne47]

How can people possibly find truth, justice and goodness in a governing body that is a devil worshipping, fascist, corrupt dictatorship???!!

[enfoldedblue]

Thanks for bringing the whole 'fake news' idea to the table Baby Steps. It does add a whole new dimension to the situation with both positive and negative qualities. I was telling a friend the other day (who has become convinced that the Earth is flat) that if a person consumes enough information about something they can be convinced of anything. This works for both sides of the equation. I think part of the lesson in this is to stop looking to an external authority to discern the truth. I think the more we learn to cultivate internally generated discernment, that is not dictated by the sways of polarity, the better off we will be.