If reincarnation is true...

[CO2]

If reincarnation is true then who was the first person to ever be created before they were created? Or didn't reincarnation apply to that person? Or they might be caught in a vacuum of some sort.

If reincarnation is true then who we are NOW will always be who we have always been; right?

If reincarnation is true and God is our real Self; then why does He keep forgetting who He is upon entering into another soulish body?

If reincarnation and freewill are true then why don't we assert our freewill and improve our memory to not forget who we were and to not make the same mistakes again that lands us into another cycle of memory lapse rebirth?

If reincarnation is true then why doesn't God improve His personal counseling skills to help us to not get reincarnated again in order that we might enjoy His perpetual creation while having an instilled memory?

If reincarnation is true then why didn't those who made it out of the vicious cycle not give us that information on how they managed?

Seems to me that karma isn't the issue here but rather irresponsibility on our part and God's.

Twenty thousand years of forward progress doesn't matter then if suddenly you get zip lined backwards again into another stupid, irresponsible forgetful body.

[enigma3]

Reincarnation is true in the unawakened state. After full awakening it disappears. Why aren't we born fully awakened? That is one of the great mysteries of all time.

There is no free will. God, or whatever one wishes to call That Which is One, creates everything. Our thoughts, our moods, our feelings, everything. Life in a body on such a place as earth is a spiritual proving ground. To the Buddhists we take thousands of births. No one incarnation is a big deal until the hand of Grace visits us to bring awakening. Those thousands of births represent a slow movement towards Understanding.

This cannot be understood through intellectual ideas. The intellect is useless in understanding the awakened state. Only the intuition counts.

[OMG]

If I don’t remember what I did in previous lives I would have no sense of making errors and therefore I wouldn’t be inclined to fix anything in this life time.

How can we progress if we are operating unconsciously or mechanically?

[Rich]

Reincarnation implies a reincarnating self. There is no such thing. The bundle of memories and hopes, called the "I", imagines itself existing everlastingly and creates time to accommodate its false eternity. ~Nisaragadatta

[Bubu]

fear of banishing makes people imagine continuous existence. Birth and death is a normal and continuous process so above is below. Cells in our body as well as stars born and die.

Matter represents a set of energy a combination of complex set of energies gives birth to consciousness. When body disintegrate so is consciousness cease to exist. The energy that makes up the matter will be preserve and use by other entities that is in the process of birthing or existing. When we eat veggies that veggie cease to exist and the energy is use to create cells in our body it becomes part of our existence . "truth is self explanatory"

As matter represents a combination of energy when matter disintegrates it also represents the breakdown/ transformation of energies that makes up the matter ,along with the consciousness. " truth is self explanatory". Birth and death is a normal process we are better of accepting it than entertain the illusion of infinite existence. reincarnation is another invented scam to keep people busy, confuse and unmindful of real issues IMO.

[Yetti]

According to the URANTIA book was : Andon and Fonda, but there are many symilar stories all over the world, depicting almost the same.. research. and dig into the Dolores cannon books , are awesome!

[Clear Light]

Reincarnation implies a reincarnating self. There is no such thing. The bundle of memories and hopes, called the "I", imagines itself existing everlastingly and creates time to accommodate its false eternity. ~Nisaragadatta

Ah, yes I agree :highfive: and with regards to Karma, IMO, it all belongs to the illusionary "self" ... BUT the "good news" for all is : "You are NOT that" !!!

Now, anybody for a little bit of humour, why not eh ? :wink:


34598

[ljwheat]

:grouphug: I believe to avoid eternal board-um , reincarnation is minds less ,, if we are truly not of this world,,, then there is no way of knowing what is not of this world.... no one knows, no religion knows, no being knows.. so how can one say reincarnation is so.... ? so now what......shrug it off and just live what we have....:grouphug:

[Satori]

This is one of those ponderable, but unprovable questions of life. That's one reason why we talk and write about it so much. No one can prove or disprove reincarnation. It's an article of faith. Like religion.

[ghostrider]

Nokodemjon , from the planet Sadar... it is said he was the first human form to complete the 60-80 billion material life, 60-80 million half spirit half material, then he entered into the first pure spirit level 4 billion years , then the last pure spirit level of Petale, then he merged to be one with the Creation, 12 billion years ago , he came back to the reincarnation cycle for the people fell away from the spirit teaching, wars ensued, he created a clone army and in 4 years restored peace, came to our universe 389,000 years ago as the first Enoch, of which there were three, the most recent was 9,000 years ago, he came back in the personalities we know as Enoch , Isaiah, Elijah, Jeremiah, Immanuel and Muhammad , teachers of spirit... not trying to ruffle the feathers, this is just my understanding of what i have read ... im not sure i should even say anymore, i dont want trouble ...believe freely as you like about reincarnation ...

[joeecho]

'IF' isn't true but true is.

Reincarnation is a story line that is lived, life is the constant.

[joeecho]

If one lives a life long enough and is observant on a whole diffferent level, one will witness reincarnation in action.

[dim]

I don't know why i'm compelled to reply to this, maybe cause i sense the same frustration i had.

The grip of the person construct entity is so tight on Us that everything is seen and diluted
through it without any chance of being detected initially.
It takes a long series of such questions to begin to detect that is the questioner that hasn't
been questioned.

A simple 101 sketch we can draw is this: Tao (god/brahman/pure awareness) > Soul > Person

The Tao/Dao/God out of her infinity creativity and in order to experience
something "Other" than Herself casts out waves of Souls.
But She can't do that unless She or a part of Her, goes to sleep.
This is the first I, the pure sense of I exist, like an erection out of a warm sea of pure intelligence and love,
like a balloon filled with water floating submerged inside an ocean.
The first sense of differentiation/individuality apart from the all knowing/loving sea of awareness
and along with it the first sense of fear. Both fear and excitement.
Like a baby reaching her arms to the yet unknown creation curious to find out about everything
and still turns her face back to the safety of the Mother.

This is what "reincarnates", simply means the Soul getting experiences through innumerous
lifetimes on not just earth but the universe itself.
Is just that balloon, or baby, accumulating knowledge and shaping Itself in a pristine
piece of art through the learning process of "fleshing" out the "academic" knowledge
It has as an All Knowing principle.

This "in flesh" procedure takes place through the "Person".
The Soul carefully chooses bodies and personalities that can help Her better
get what She wants everytime She attempts a new lifetime.
This "Person" is the culprit We all as Souls stumble upon and have hard time with.
It's grip is so tight on Us that we currently can't think of Ourselves as anything else
that this "person". We believe that We are it and rarely anyone of Us reaches the point to
question that assumption, therefor questions like:
"who was the first person to ever be created" arise.

The "person" cannot reincarnate, is just a temporary space suit to live and breathe on a planet
therefor there wasn't any "first" person that did reincarnate,
but because we unquestionably assume We are persons it feels natural to ask such questions.
However, they can't have a satisfying answer until the questioner is being questioned.
That that does indeed reincarnate, the Soul, we as persons currently have no idea about.
As the great Tao puts a part of It at sleep and imagines a separate I,
so does the Soul sleeps a "second" sleep (or fall from Grace if you like)
and imagines a separate self, the John Doe, the individual person and loves that dream
so much that forgets Herself in it and adopts this person as Herself
and She does that until life begins to be so dysfunctional and frustrating,
torn apart form one crisis to another without a moment's rest,
so She's compelled to search back to find Her origin and begins to inquiry about Her true nature
The first genuine "Who am I ?" arises to the person.

This journey can span out to thousands of years, and then a Soul is not a single one entity,
it's a vast collection of energies, an ecology of different entities and colors
making it unique and beautiful, but because currently we thing as persons
we tent to think Souls as individuals, not at all, a Soul is a wave of aspects
all working together, some incarnated and others not (spirit guides).

This little sketch should be giving a first glimpse of the vastness of what's going on,
therefor Nisargadatta's right again yet limited in perspective and although
towards the end of his life and under the pressure of many people he did admit
some aspects of reincarnation, we tend to put an enormous burden of "you should know everything" over the shoulders of some, sometimes completely illiterate, enlightened people.

tl;dr
the answer to the first question:
. No person reincarnates.
. The good news: you're not a person

if you still interested we can go through some more later on.

[Conde]

KGR_E67nk3Q

[Lifebringer]

I think its man's inability to follow the rules while tempted by prodigal son carnalism that leaves them in a primal state. The rebellion of man, is clearly still visible. Murder, lies, deceit, and theft still played upon the innocent.
With so many in the 2nd circuit of the brain, I'm thinking they are trying to keep man in this primal state of weakness that prohibits his/forward evolving. Cute trick, if you find the frequency to block a chakra or calcify pineal gland.

[Lifebringer]

Yes it was not Adam but the 1st spiritually conscious couple through various dna crossing in species.

[CO2]

(ADDRESSED TO "DIM"). This is a very deep rabbit hole. Thank you for the labor and time that it took writing it although a small shadow was cast upon it from your opening statement. I still managed to see through it (dimly) and will study it thoroughly (as I will with the others) to extract from it every ounce of juice.

I'll be honest; none of these replies are appealing to me because they are "spooky." I like feeling safe and secure with my OWN identity. I find assuring comfort in my shallow rabbit hole. As long as I keep my consciousness on my God consciousness; that primordial ether (CO2) will reshape and conform for me another greater body that will sustain my original (although expanding) personality. All life is based on that Carbon element. (I can eat a tree but I can't eat a wooden desk.) My soul eats the flesh and drinks the blood of my Christ consciousness; therefore I will continue onward alive knowing who I have always been. But again, much appreciation for your time and teaching.

I AM a champion of Carbon Dioxide only because I experienced Its Life giving affects (effects) after I normalized my breathing. After this the statement:" The Breath of Life," took on a whole new meaning to me. Carbon Dioxide has to be present even in the continuation of conscious awareness.

[lake]

If reincarnation is true

I will link to an old post, which answers your questions....but only from my limited perspective....

This post :) (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?74571-Quantum-Physics-the-Double-Slit-Experiment-and-the-Inseperability-of-Matter-and-Consciousness.&p=1036308&viewfull=1#post1036308)



:p

[petra]

Could it not be possible for reincarnation to be true for some, but not others? I find that plausible, because assuming it is the spirit which is reincarnating, the spirit would logically have to have been "born" at some point.

I've been told by a member of my family in no uncertain terms that there are "no new spirits being born" (probably came from chanelled source), and so the burning question then becomes WHY? Assuming THAT is true, sounds kindof sad, to me.

The part in the OP about God being irresponsible made me laugh a bit.... I mean really!!! Perhaps God's just trying to keep us safe, who knows.

[lake]

Could it not be possible for reincarnation to be true for some, but not others? I find that plausible, because assuming it is the spirit which is reincarnating, the spirit would logically have to have been "born" at some point.

I've been told by a member of my family in no uncertain terms that there are "no new spirits being born" and so the burning question then becomes WHY?


Nice to see ya Petra :bigsmile:

From my point of view....many do not exist and are created by YOU, so they in the 'normal' sequence cannot reincarnate!
But because YOU gave them a 'part to play' it is quite possible for them to begin a journey. To do this they would need to start questioning whether they have individualism? They would need to use the creation YOU gave to become self aware of others!
They can only BE as an individual, same as YOU.......there are not 2 of YOU....but there must be a unique perception, an interpretation which does not require another to confirm! (in this world)

It is possible that no new 'individuals' are 'becoming'!
It is possible that I am wrong and this world/place is a womb.......and that is why there is a want for a spiritual birth control??

Only thoughts, nothing more, considerations!
:p

[petra]

From my point of view....many do not exist and are created by YOU, so they in the 'normal' sequence cannot reincarnate!
But because YOU gave them a 'part to play' it is quite possible for them to begin a journey. To do this they would need to start questioning whether they have individualism? They would need to use the creation YOU gave to become self aware of others!
They can only BE as an individual, same as YOU.......there are not 2 of YOU....but there must be a unique perception, an interpretation which does not require another to confirm! (in this world)


I guess you mean what people refer to as "organic portals" - or empty people. I've heard of things like that, spiritless people and whatnot, just not sure what to make of it yet.

I've heard it proposed it's possible to "grow a spirit" in Ouspensky's book "The Fourth Way", and so I like to think that supposing some people are not really individuals yet - they can be - with a little work.




It is possible that no new 'individuals' are 'becoming'!
It is possible that I am wrong and this world/place is a womb.......and that is why there is a want for a spiritual birth control??

Only thoughts, nothing more, considerations!
:p

Spiritual birth control.... haha, well - I think that's a good idea!

There was a point where I felt like everyone else were just different expressions of me, that has gone, but I remember how it felt. I recall laughing about it and calling it the "same person glitch" :)

[lake]

I guess you mean what people refer to as "organic portals" - or empty people. I've heard of things like that, spiritless people and whatnot, just not sure what to make of it yet.

Well if I may ask?
Would you consider a being who had no empathy, compassion, guilt or remorse as having the same awareness as you?
Would said being be able to reincarnate?



There was a point where I felt like everyone else were just different expressions of me,

I could never prove it to another....but I have met and interacted with my emotions, as singular 'people', in this place!


:facepalm:

[dim]

(ADDRESSED TO "DIM"). This is a very deep rabbit hole. Thank you for the labor and time that it took writing it although a small shadow was cast upon it from your opening statement. I still managed to see through it (dimly) and will study it thoroughly (as I will with the others) to extract from it every ounce of juice.

I'll be honest; none of these replies are appealing to me because they are "spooky." I like feeling safe and secure with my OWN identity. I find assuring comfort in my shallow rabbit hole. As long as I keep my consciousness on my God consciousness; that primordial ether (CO2) will reshape and conform for me another greater body that will sustain my original (although expanding) personality. All life is based on that Carbon element. (I can eat a tree but I can't eat a wooden desk.) My soul eats the flesh and drinks the blood of my Christ consciousness; therefore I will continue onward alive knowing who I have always been. But again, much appreciation for your time and teaching.

I AM a champion of Carbon Dioxide only because I experienced Its Life giving affects (effects) after I normalized my breathing. After this the statement:" The Breath of Life," took on a whole new meaning to me. Carbon Dioxide has to be present even in the continuation of conscious awareness.

My apologies CO2
I see now that i was too quick to reply, i should've taken the time to feel your energy better,
you're not frustrated, you seem to have your stuff in order, you know your subject and the questions were purely rhetorical.
I thought i knew better, seems like i have long way to go.
Thanks.

[petra]

I guess you mean what people refer to as "organic portals" - or empty people. I've heard of things like that, spiritless people and whatnot, just not sure what to make of it yet.

Well if I may ask?
Would you consider a being who had no empathy, compassion, guilt or remorse as having the same awareness as you?
Would said being be able to reincarnate?


I suppose so, assuming reincarnation is indeed beneficial ;-)



I could never prove it to another....but I have met and interacted with my emotions, as singular 'people', in this place!


I've named thoughts or emotions as if they were characters! "Pissed off guy" is really pissed off, "really loud guy" is really loud, "TV guy" sends messages through the TV, and so on (try not to roll your eyes!!)

Maybe this foolishness is some kind of defense mechanism against this nonsense world? Trying to make sense out of stuff that's nonsense is enough to drive anyone into the nut house :)

[CO2]

No apology needed dim. Often times my words are empty anyway (at times filled with soul force); disguised to provoke a response(s) I need in order that I may see all points of view on subjects I'm not comfortable with. You were not wrong in your energy recognition of my thread because you detected something in my heart I had not seen myself. If your apology was sincere or not is something I am reading right now. You have a strong spirit and are a gifted teacher. Use your gift wisely. Your reply had enough power to make me ponder. That's very rare.

[dim]

Every soul has it's own pace of waking up, we can't force our each private truth down the throat of anyone
but on my haste i come out with a scent of a not so subtle patronizing, that's my apology for.

[joeecho]

Consider this angle:

Reincarnation as a first or second level illusion in so as incarnation is an illusory 'experience'.

It's like time, it has no actual demarcations though humans have given time relative demarcation.

The experience of incarnation is continuous but some remember distinct changes in their continuing incarnation as 'another' incarnation.

It's analogy would be when someone has had drastic changes during this physical life and can reflect back on 'that' part of their life and interpret it as a "whole life time ago".

[greybeard]

In a way I see the concept as a distraction--(a maybe so)
Its taking a person away from living the moment and perhaps finding the answer to the question--"Who/what am I"
On finding the answer to that question--the question and reincarnation becomes of no consequence.

Chris

[Justplain]

I have no recall of past lives, never had an inkling thought of it as a child that i can remember. My life experience seemed complete in and of itself.

Then, as a young adult i met a couple of women who remembered past life experiences. These were two genuine, spiritual people who's word i trusted. Neither of their experiences were anything to brag about, which added more to their credibility.

Now, you might question whether their past life memories were just somehow remote viewing someone else's past experience. This can be a good point.

Then my wife mentioned how her son from a previous marriage had pretended to drive a motorcycle at an age where he had never had exposure to that kind of vehicle. How could have he known?

Then i read about past life recalls of other children, with remarkable accuracy, and some with current life confirmation with still living people from the past life.

Then i read 'Journey of Souls' by Michael Newman, a psychotherapist, who recorded his patients' afterlife experiences between lives. This book explains how souls are indeed using incarnations to improve themselves. Eventually the soul rejoins the Creator at the highest consciousness level. We have amnesia to this on Earth in order not to confuse things (though i personally dont see the benefit of forgetting once you reach a certain level of awareness).

Is discussing this a distraction, perhaps. If we could remember past lives it would completely invalidate the current materialistic/darwinian world view. We do have a purpose here and it is by divine design.

Also, knowing how past lives affect the current is a useful exercise, especially when you cant explain some of the problems and barriers one is experiencing. Certainly past life experiences used for bragging about is just a waste of time. But if knowing helps your progress now, then why not?

[DouglasDanger]

Book of Nerd 1010:1 (not to be confused with the Book of Geek)

Think of reincarnation like this,
Your soul is a sim card,
Your body is the cell phone,
this current line of phones(body) has a broken link/blue tooth/connection, we cannot upload any of our media to source.
The sim card( soul) in the phone(body) has to be removed from the broken device( body) and manually uploaded,
The sim card (soul) is then formatted and reinstalled into a new phone (body) when we are reincarnated.

I realy should finish the Book of Nerd and the Book of Geek ;)

[Catsquotl]

That is a lot of if's which signifies that reincarnation as it is doesn't register as truth.
Now if it don't exist. these questions don't make sense.

So maybe it's time for a different question?

With Love
Eelco

[Bill Ryan]

http://nhne-pulse.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Reincarnation.jpg

[Yetti]

Hello! Ghostrider. Where you get this about Nokodemjon?

[Rich]

If reincarnation is true then who was the first person to ever be created before they were created? Or didn't reincarnation apply to that person? Or they might be caught in a vacuum of some sort.

If reincarnation is true then who we are NOW will always be who we have always been; right?

some good questions.
how far would one have to go back to not see a past anymore?

[findingneo]

EmEx very good question, and I had to giggle when I read CO2's questions. They are wonderful and I would have liked to have "Thank"(ed) CO2 for asking them, except that had been disabled. I have never asked anyone to regress that far back so I don't know. But great questions.

[Omni]

This is one of those ponderable, but unprovable questions of life. That's one reason why we talk and write about it so much. No one can prove or disprove reincarnation. It's an article of faith. Like religion.

I think eventually science will more or less prove reincarnation. We have archaic science in the public domain right now though....

[Rich]

EmEx very good question, and I had to giggle when I read CO2's questions. They are wonderful and I would have liked to have "Thank"(ed) CO2 for asking them, except that had been disabled. I have never asked anyone to regress that far back so I don't know. But great questions.
The mods didnt feel like he was a good match for the forum.

as you said in another post if we can go back one day we should be able to go back further.
Isn't that the exact same concept? but can there be a beginning? Probably the mind will always make something up.

[East Sun]

Dr. Stevenson(sp) did a lot of research into reincarnation and
proved to himself at least, that it is a real phenomena.

[Hervé]

Dr. Stevenson(sp) did a lot of research into reincarnation and
proved to himself at least, that it is a real phenomena.
see this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?82914-The-Reincarnation-Trap&p=1181626&viewfull=1#post1181626) (<---)

[avid]

I recently watched Pigtail Gurl's recent video, regarding karma, rebirth and saying NO to contracts made on our souls by nefarious means. This resonated well with me, made sense, and put lots of odd 'jigsaw pieces' together. We do NOT have to be part of the 'matrix', we can refuse, as we have free will. We do NOT have to reincarnate.
KOv6EQ1-5T8
We can just go back to source, peace, and oneness in love. Ah well, fingers, toes, eyes et al crossed.... Just say NO!

[Mercedes]

I loved her attitude and all arround vibe. We will succeed!!! Thank you Avid.

[findingneo]

Hi EmEx, what is thought of as the conscious self, that part of us that is conversing now, is given a connection to the subconscious during a past life regression. Usually, the two do not communicate. The conscious self is usually unaware of the existence of the subconscious, but the subconscious records everything that the conscious self experiences and does not talk to the conscious. The subconscious is connected to that universal consciousness and so can connect with all information, everywhere, anytime. When a connection is truly made between the conscious and subconscious, such as during a regression, you can access your subconscious which has access to all the answers. However, there are some places we are not allowed access to. Certainly, past life regression can seem like it is the mind making things up, but having been able to eventually track information from past lives where the information was not initially available to obtain, or when seemingly random circumstantial information purporting to a seemingly unrelated life circumstance can be pulled together when recorded history is researched, it goes beyond mere chance that going back in time is mere imagination. I can see how if you have not experienced something, it is hard to believe. I would feel that way too. But you are not dealing with your conscious self, but your subconscious. I just found it an interesting question, because if those questions were easily accessible, they would have been accessed by now. If you ever have a regression, and you ask the regressionist to ask those questions, I would love to hear what answer your subconscious gives. I have enough trouble dealing with the question I have asked since I was bout 6 years old. Regarding there being no ending to space and the infinity thing. That defies my understanding of reality in itself, so I just don't go there. No one could satisfy my comprehension of that. That is why I giggled. All hard questions. Reminded me of the questions I would ask as a kid. Great questions, hard to comprehend even if we had access to an answer I think.

[greybeard]

I think it important to be aware that words that come from a different age, a different culture a different language are not easily translated,
For example one translation, the word sin in the original context means "to fall short of the mark" which is rather different from the meaning assigned to it by religion.

Religions promoted fear, to control, to feed the need for a way to be saved.
A one stop shop to take away your "guilt" and everything else.
Your link to "God".
Non duality has a totally different philosophy.
Your are One with the Creator.
The human ego is the cause of acts defined as evil.
Edge God Out is one definition.

Reincarnation is a belief which is part of Maya---you have to learn from your mistakes till you are enlightened then you at are free of the wheel of Karma.

However the Mystics say otherwise---you are complete in your True Self--no improvement necessary or possible.
You are Consciousness which may condense itself from formless to become limited persona which has forgotten it True Self.

After this adventure into a seeming separate persona, on leaving the body there is the return to the eternal One Self which was never really left.
Its consciousness at play---the Cosmic dance.

So is there reincarnation--karma and all these similar concepts?---yes in the mirage of Maya--in ultimate, reality no.

You could say we are at the movies and in the movie at the same time.
A good movie can make you laugh make you cry--very real.
The only thing about it that is real is the screen its projected on.
We are the field of consciousness projecting life and being life.

I'm not saying I'm correct in these assumptions.

Ch

[Foxie Loxie]

Love that, Greybeard!! We are "at the movies & in the movies" at the same time! :clap2::tea:

[findingneo]

Hi Greybeard, you say that "Reincarnation is a belief which is part of Maya".

I think Maya it is an illusion too, but Maya or not, it is part of our reality, because our physical 3D world is Maya. Our 3D reality is the illusion.And it comes as a package deal.
It does not matter if you believe in reincarnation or not, because you are in it, like it or not.
You are as tied to the deeds of your reincarnation cycle just by being here. I don't know how many times I have tried to break a certain cycle. Every step of the way, you can't move forward or any direction, without creating karma. It is a flawed system.
Does it mean I will stop looking for a way out of the system? No. Just by talking about it, awareness of the system changes peoples perception of reality and how they behave.

You say Greybeard that you have to learn from your mistakes until you are enlightened, then you free yourself from the wheel of karma. I wish it was that easy. That is what I understood it to be for a long time. The fact that we are born without memory, means we have no idea for a long time during a lifetime, who we are. We are a spiritual being first, with that cliche, we are a spiritual being having a human experience. That human experience makes us forget. By the time we remember, we have clocked up heaps of karma to be added to the rest.

As far as becoming enlightened. Not sure about our starting point. I regressed a woman who is a university lecturer. She has status and professional respect. She is full of her own self worth, she is selfish and she does not believe in karma or the afterlife. She did a number of things that elevated her and allowed her to spend money for overseas trips that fraudulently took money from other peoples pockets who were not so well off, and as such, took the food from the mouths of their kids. According to the law, there was not proof. The lecturer is smug about it. She chuckled at her perceived superiority.

Prior to the above, I gave her a regression. She did not believe in karma, or that she could be regressed, or even that regression to past lives was real, or possible. Her soul took her right back to what she understood to be her first past life. She started to laugh loudly. She was looking down down from the top of a cliff onto a scene where her clan was going about their daily business, and she was a cave man. She was a man in that life and he loved his life. He has a woman who was his mate and he had a daughter and son who were still young. He loved them all very much. He had a beautiful relationship with his wife, he would take his son and teach him to hunt and he loved the bonding experiences. His wife would teach the daughter about which plants to gather, when and where for food, medicines, how to use them, and skills needed for survival. Unlike the impression I had that life as a cave man must have been extremely brutal, this life as a cave man was wonderful.

Unfortunately, something as simple as a tooth abscess cut short lives. The father got an abscess and knew he would die. The whole family was devastated. He died and did not want to leave his family because the children were still too young to be without a father. His "wife" would moan and bang her head against the rock cave in mental anguish at the loss of her mate. He stayed with them in spirit until they were old enough and the children found their own mates. His perception of time in spirit, watching his children grow, was more like months than years.

The next life her soul took her to was that of a monk, another life as a man and thousands, if not tens of thousands of years later than her life as a cave man. He chose to leave his family from the time he was a young person to join a monastery and give his life to God. He loved having no possessions and living a very simple and frugal life, and a life spent in prayer and silence and the mundane chores that went with it. He loved "God" and was a perfect monk. At the end of that lifetime, and when he passed over, I asked what he/she was seeing? I was told to be quiet by her as she was having a conversation with "God" and it was private and I was interrupting. After several minutes of some smiles, nods and such, I asked what was going on. She answered that "God" had just been telling her what a good job she had done in that lifetime. Of course I don't know who this "God" really was.

So back to this lifetime and the regression has finished, I asked her among other things about her beliefs now. She said that she still did not believe in reincarnation, God (in whatever form), or karma. She did not reflect on what her Soul had shown her in any way. A few months later, she misled and defrauded creating hardship for others to fund her overseas trip, without remorse. So go figure?

So I do not think even the reincarnation cycle is as straightforward. Apart form the karma we are born with, the karmic debt is built upon the moment we are born into each lifetime, starting perhaps with our birth certificate these days. Our first contract. And not having memory of past lifetimes is an impediment.

"Ego is the cause of acts defined as evil". Sure, ego has a lot to answer for and perpetuates everything. We externalize our thoughts and project in onto others. But there are lots of hidden things pulling the strings too. Not knowing about those things perpetuates the intensity and lack of awareness of ego.

[Rich]

I think Maya it is an illusion too, but Maya or not, it is part of our reality, because our physical 3D world is Maya. Our 3D reality is the illusion.And it comes as a package deal.

I agree that if we think we exist in time we create a past and future because what we think is "now" cannot exist without them.
But I think more along the lines of how Bashar explains it, that the past is created from the moment of now instead of the past having created us.


If you consider that we do not come to a world but the world arises from your consciousness then the word incarnation is misleading - at least it is inaccurate.

[transiten]

There are several stories about reincarnation out there, I'm sorry I can't find them for you, they are really convincing. Just Google "reincatnation stories" and voilá!

[Michi]

There are several stories about reincarnation out there, I'm sorry I can't find them for you, they are really convincing. Just Google "reincatnation stories" and voilá!

One good place to start looking is at: https://www.nderf.org/

[Rich]

From ACIM;



Is Reincarnation So?

In the ultimate sense, reincarnation is impossible. There is no past or future,
and the idea of birth into a body has no meaning either once or many times.
Reincarnation cannot, then, be true in any real sense. Our only question
should be, "Is the concept helpful?" And that depends, of course, on what it
is used for. If it is used to strengthen the recognition of the eternal nature of
life, it is helpful indeed. Is any other question about it really useful in
lighting up the way? Like many other beliefs, it can be bitterly misused. At
least, such misuse offers preoccupation and perhaps pride in the past. At
worst, it induces inertia in the present. In between, many kinds of folly are
possible.

Reincarnation would not, under any circumstances, be the problem to be
dealt with <now>. If it were responsible for some of the difficulties the
individual faces now, his task would still be only to escape from them now.
If he is laying the groundwork for a future life, he can still work out his
salvation only now. To some, there may be comfort in the concept, and if it
heartens them its value is self-evident. It is certain, however, that the way to
salvation can be found by those who believe in reincarnation and by those
who do not. The idea cannot, therefore, be regarded as essential to the
curriculum. There is always some risk in seeing the present in terms of the
past. There is always some good in any thought which strengthens the idea
that life and the body are not the same.
For our purposes, it would not be helpful to take any definite stand on
reincarnation.

A teacher of God should be as helpful to those who believe in
it as to those who do not. If a definite stand were required of him, it would
merely limit his usefulness, as well as his own decision making. Our course
is not concerned with any concept that is not acceptable to anyone,
regardless of his formal beliefs. His ego will be enough for him to cope
with, and it is not the part of wisdom to add sectarian controversies to his
burdens. Nor would there be an advantage in his premature acceptance of
the course merely because it advocates a long-held belief of his own.
It cannot be too strongly emphasized that this course aims at a complete
reversal of thought. When this is finally accomplished, issues such as the
validity of reincarnation become meaningless. Until then, they are likely to
be merely controversial. The teacher of God is, therefore, wise to step away
from all such questions, for he has much to teach and learn apart from them.
He should both learn and teach that theoretical issues but waste time,
draining it away from its appointed purpose. If there are aspects to any
concept or belief that will be helpful, he will be told about it. He will also
be told how to use it. What more need he know?


Does this mean that the teacher of God should not believe in reincarnation
himself, or discuss it with others who do? The answer is, certainly not! If he
does believe in reincarnation, it would be a mistake for him to renounce the
belief unless his internal Teacher so advised. And this is most unlikely. He
might be advised that he is misusing the belief in some way that is
detrimental to his pupil's advance or his own. Reinterpretation would then
be recommended, because it is necessary. All that must be recognized,
however, is that birth was not the beginning, and death is not the end. Yet
even this much is not required of the beginner. He need merely accept the
idea that what he knows is not necessarily all there is to learn. His journey
has begun.

The emphasis of this course always remains the same;--it is at this moment
that complete salvation is offered you, and it is at this moment that you can
accept it. This is still your one responsibility. Atonement might be equated
with total escape from the past and total lack of interest in the future.
Heaven is here. There is nowhere else. Heaven is now. There is no other
time. No teaching that does not lead to this is of concern to God's teachers.
All beliefs will point to this if properly interpreted. In this sense, it can be
said that their truth lies in their usefulness. All beliefs that lead to progress
should be honored. This is the sole criterion this course requires. No more
than this is necessary.

[greybeard]

The challenge is the different levels of perception.
Now in Ultimate there is literally no other---One without a second--being an ancient and very clear description of Ultimate--which is unaware of being Ultimate.
Ultimate being a comparison of/with lesser definitions.

"Awareness" (Self)--does not need confirmation that it is. No subject--no object.

So to the Ultimate--there being no other--reincarnation is a thought perhaps, not a reality--there is only One as reality
--in order to have a reincarnation story, as EmEX pointed out there has to be time and of course others.

Im not an expert so the question remains "What is Truth"?

At the moment whatever gets me through the day is almost the priority.
The priority is that eternal question "Who am I?"

Chris

[Rich]

The challenge is the different levels of perception.


True, but there are no different levels of perception in reality, there is truth or no truth, hate or love, time or timelessness.
Defining ourselves through the past creates all problems, because it means that whatever we think we have done wrong or has happened is who we are and part of us.
Then we take the pain of the past with us into the present and say it is now.

[Hervé]

If reincarnation is true...

... well, then:


Your Life Before & After This One (https://www.henrymakow.com/2018/01/Your-Life-Before-After-This-One.html)

Henry Makow January 5, 2018


https://www.henrymakow.com/upload_images/IMG_1152.JPG


Michael Berg, 32, discovered that our life between lives can be accessed through hypnosis, among other techniques.

Understanding the nature of our existence as an immortal soul and the purpose of life, can help us with self-healing and help us deal with the social ills of our present world more effectively.


"Death is not the end of anything. It is just the beginning. Death is a natural path we all must take.

No one really dies. Only the physical vehicle dies. We continue on to our true home."(Disclaimer: I am reserving judgment here but feel this information is of widespread interest & merits consideration.)

By Michael Berg
(henrymakow.com)

I was born in 1985 in Israel. My family are European Jews.

From a very young age, I felt that religion simply didn't provide me with answers. Then in December 2007, my journey of self-discovery began. I was interested in the subject of hypnosis as a means of enhancing memory. My interest was purely academic. I had read that it was possible through hypnosis to tap into memories of past events normally hidden from our conscious mind.

I went into the "Google" search engine searching using the words "Hypnosis uncover memories". I couldn't imagine at the time that these three words would lead me into a journey that would eventually change my life and my perception of reality forever.


https://www.henrymakow.com/upload_images/Newton.jpg
(Dr. Michael Newton, 1931-2016)


Suddenly, I saw this interesting website that talked about hypnosis as a means to tap into our soul memories and our lives as spirits between incarnations. They talked of a groundbreaking therapeutic technique called "Spiritual regression" as a means to facilitate the process and that this hypnosis regression technique was developed and pioneered by a retired American psychologist named Dr. Michael Newton (https://www.newtoninstitute.org/about-tni/dr-michael-newton/).

Being a religious Jew at the time I "thought" I knew "everything" about the purpose of life and why we are here. I soon realized that neither Judaism nor any other religions provided us with the answers. But this new groundbreaking technique might be different.

Out of curiosity I read through the entire website and watched the interviews conducted by Dr. Michael Newton on the subject. While reading it, I felt something moving in me. For some reason, it ringed TRUE. For the first time, I read something that made sense to me about the purpose of life - who we are, why we are here, where do we come from and where we are going.

Needless to say, I was fascinated that it was possible to tap into our soul-self and our existence as souls in the afterlife. I contacted a therapist in the field of soul regression. He had a very long waiting list. In this case, you don't have much choice but to wait.

All you can do is give it a chance and be open-minded. It can potentially change your life. After that, needless to say, I had left Judaism behind me once I understood that it's meaningless. I also didn't like the anti-gentile hatred within the creed which was always a problem for me.

In the meantime, the entire subject of soul regression opened an all-new door of spiritual interest to me. It brought me to the subject of Out Of Body (OBE) travel.

After researching the subject I had my first full consciousness OBE in November 2011. I remember feeling like electricity going through my body, paralysis. I couldn't move my body and suddenly I saw myself in another place, in another reality. I was there; it was not a dream. It was so mind-blowing that I couldn't sleep that night at all. I was busy writing my experience in my diary.

THE HISTORY OF LIFE BETWEEN LIVES HYPNOTHERAPY.


https://www.henrymakow.com/upload_images/9780738704654.jpg



Life Between Lives (LBL) Regression is a deep hypnotic technique, developed by Dr. Michael Newton (1931-2016), an American psychologist, and is described in detail in his books, Journey of Souls, Destiny of Souls and Life Between Lives Hypnotherapy, as well as the latest book in the series, Memories of the Afterlife.


These books summarize the findings of Dr. Michael Newton and Members of The Newton Institute (Link below) who have taken many thousands of people into a superconscious state where they were able to "see" into the Spirit World - the place between our physical incarnations. The data shows that thousands of different people, from different races, ethnic groups, and religions - from atheists to religious fundamentalist had the same CONSISTENT accounts of what it is like in the Spirit World after we "die".

Based upon his groundbreaking regression technique with thousands of "Between lives" clients, Dr. Newton has been able to describe the realm of the spirit world which is consistent with, yet far more elaborated, than that found in the Near Death Experience (NDEs) and Out of Body (OBEs) literature. Dr. Newton's findings are among the most significant, in terms of both the depth and inspiration, of any in the metaphysical and spiritual literature. LBL takes one to that very special time a soul spends in the afterlife ("The Spirit World") between its physical incarnations.

During an LBL, one experiences oneself as an immortal soul, meets with their spirit guides, loved ones who had passed away and other beings who help one explore their soul lessons, life's purpose and other questions that you have prepared for the session. During this time in spirit, many experience healing, unconditional love and oneness with all things. LBL is a profound, life-transforming experience.

Additional research in the regression field was carried out by Psychiatrist Dr. Brian Weiss (linked below) while Robert Monroe and William Buhlman (linked below) pioneered the Out Of Body (OBE) field.


THE LESSONS I'VE LEARNED AND HOW UNDERSTANDING OUR IMMORTAL IDENTITY USING LBL & OBE METHODS CAN HELP US IN THE WORLD TODAY
We live in a world of real intolerance (Not the pseudo "intolerance" promoted by the establishment), where races and religions don't respect each other's differences and their RIGHT to be different. A world where peoples do not respect the right of others to be who they are (i.e. their God-given right to preserve their own kind - their racial, ethnic, cultural and religious identity). A world where 700,000 innocent civilians were murdered by religious intolerance in middle-east. A world where 0.2% of the world's population steals the productivity and national treasures of 95% of humanity. A materialistic world of "me", "me" and "me", where Globalism destroys everything that is God-given, natural and good in the world (i.e. family, race, nation etc.) for the sake of material gain and control.


https://www.henrymakow.com/upload_images/Journey-of-Souls.jpg



We live in a world where males and females are brainwashed [to] compete with each other (Feminism) rather than complement each-other and become ONE in flesh and in spirit as they were intended by Nature and God.


Specifically, this is a world of racial intolerance against the ethnic Europeans - a program of hatred, ethnic cleansing, and genocide against the native European peoples worldwide (aka "White Genocide") is being promoted and celebrated by Anti-European hatred and Anti-European racism.

This is a world where the native Europeans are being told that they shouldn't exist since their existence - their race and their DNA - is "evil".

I believe Humanity is a family of races, each of which makes up the whole. Each race has something to contribute, and each race deserves to survive and has a right to their own homeland. There's no need to hate each other, displace each-other and steal each other's land. women and wealth. We are all connected on a soul level. By harming other races we are really harming ourselves. By stealing from others, we are really stealing from ourselves.

People should have the right to believe any religion that they choose to as long as they respect each other. However, as the research shows, there really is no need to hate each other based on religious differences. In our true home (aka The Spirit World) there really are no "Christians" or "Muslims" or "Jews" or "Buddhists" or "Hindus". There are just souls and all are treated with love and care since we all come from the same Source. The truth is universal.


https://www.henrymakow.com/upload_images/Destiny-of-Souls.jpg



"God" IS Consciousness IS Love. We are all part of this all-knowing, all-powerful consciousness that drives the universe and which created everything in it. As souls, we all strive for perfection. The powers that be want us to become ego-based, fear-based individuals who care only about themselves and not about others.


Our mission here as a soul is to evolve in consciousness and become Love. We become love by overcoming fear and ego. Thus we become less about ourselves and more about others. This is how we evolve and grow as a soul. In practical terms, we do this by Loving, i.e. sacrificing and protecting first our own family, then our own race, then our nation, then the rest of mankind (The order is gradual as we must live in accordance with Natural Law for this to work).

We choose to come here to Earth for the purpose of evolving as a soul - we do this by overcoming Fear (Ego) and all negative emotions connected to fear. Our one ultimate goal is to become Love. This is the one main lesson we need to learn. This is how we seek perfection. Once we finish this one main lesson we won't need to return to this place.

FINAL WORDS
Death is not the end of anything. It is just the beginning. Death is a natural path we all must take. No one really dies. Only the physical vehicle dies. We continue on to our true home.


RELATED:

SOMETHING ANGELIC:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMyo8I8AKmY

Journey Between Lives - Interview with Dr. Michael Newton :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vk5bSG78pbQ&t=549s

A short intro to Dr. Michael Newton's groundbreaking work:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrRRmqyywcI

A 2000 C2C Interview with Dr. Michael Newton:
https://youtu.be/CePlzxZKYes

Another interview with Dr. Michael Newton:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvbgytCmfuo&t=244s

The Newton Institute For Life Between Lives:
https://www.newtoninstitute.org/

Audiobook version of Dr. Newton's book "Journey Of Souls":
https://archive.org/details/MichaelNewtonJourneyOfSouls

AfterlifeTV Interview Over LBL:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DM6jaQ_K0Eo

Psychiatrist Dr. Brian Weiss Regression Work :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29jdGCLohB4

Dr. Weiss's Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrXY1C9w3oRXWg83vd5sWvw

Out Of Body (OBE) Pioneer Robert Moroe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBii06UyWwY&t=794s

Out Of Body (OBE) William Buhlman's Channel (Providing methods to induce an OBE experience):
https://www.youtube.com/user/wbuhlman

[Orph]

People should have the right to believe any religion that they choose to as long as they respect each other. .......
............
............

Our mission here as a soul is to evolve in consciousness and become Love. We become love by overcoming fear and ego. Thus we become less about ourselves and more about others. This is how we evolve and grow as a soul. In practical terms, we do this by Loving, i.e. sacrificing and protecting first our own family, then our own race, then our nation, then the rest of mankind (The order is gradual as we must live in accordance with Natural Law for this to work).

We choose to come here to Earth for the purpose of evolving as a soul - we do this by overcoming Fear (Ego) and all negative emotions connected to fear. Our one ultimate goal is to become Love. This is the one main lesson we need to learn. This is how we seek perfection. Once we finish this one main lesson we won't need to return to this place.

"Freedom" means I have a right to believe in any religion. Even a religion that says I should hunt you down and and remove your physical presence from the face of this earth. If I don't have that right, then no one learns about what it means to truly hate, or to truly love. Painful lessons to be learned, yes. For both the 'hater' and the 'hated'. 'Tolerance' and 'love' have to come from within. We each have to learn that 'freely'.

When kids get into a fight, the parents come running out, stop the fight, and say "Now, say your sorry and shake hands". So the kids say "sorry" and shake hands. But are they really sorry? No. They're just going through the motions because their parents told them to.

So, (as I highlighted above), I wonder what he means when he says, "sacrificing and protecting our family, then our race". Does he mean it's okay to use physical violence against a hater to protect himself? But if a I'm not allowed to hate in the first place, (you know, only religions that practice tolerance are allowed), then he need not fear me anyway. So, what lesson did he learn.

Sure, society has man made laws against killing and theft and stuff. But I'm talking about the growth and learning of our individual soul. If growth of the soul is done by overcoming fear, then, it stands to reason that there has to be something to fear in the first place.

Oooooops.

Sorry, I got a bit off topic there. :blushing:

So, as to the topic at hand which is reincarnation, this gives us the chance to be both the hater and the hated. That way we get to learn both side, and see that really we are one. (There, now I'm back on topic). :clapping:

[greybeard]

The only thing I can be sure of is "i am" the rest is "May be so"
Ps.
"We can quote this person that person this book that book--but the bottom line is that is that you are taking some one elses word for it---as I do from time to time."

added for clarity

Ch

[Rich]

So, as to the topic at hand which is reincarnation, this gives us the chance to be both the hater and the hated. That way we get to learn both side, and see that really we are one. (There, now I'm back on topic). :clapping:
And why would you want to learn to be hated or hater? Where is the joy in that? Hate by default means suffering.

As ACIM explains, God created us perfect, if that is so, it would naturally negate the need for incarnation or reincarnation i.e. any kind of change.

[Rich]

"We can quote this person that person this book that book--but the bottom line is that is that you are taking some one elses word for it---as I do from time to time."

The question is what message/reality would you like to believe in?

[greybeard]

"We can quote this person that person this book that book--but the bottom line is that is that you are taking some one elses word for it---as I do from time to time."

The question is what message/reality would you like to believe in?

Dear EmEx a belief is a thought---it may be a reality, but many people are incorrect in their deeply held beliefs--wars are fought over beliefs.
I know I exist, thats not a belief, not at thought, this does not need thinking to confirm.
I know im being purist but Truth is pure--not contaminated by thought.
We are in the play of consciousness--thats a maybe so.
Reincarnation is valid in the cosmic dance.

These are my thoughts--so not necessarily true.

Ps some thoughts are very helpful, in current reality--smiling

Ch

[Foxie Loxie]

Since in 553 A.D. Justinian "outlawed" the belief in reincarnation.....it must be true! :bigsmile: It wouldn't do to have a populace that couldn't be enslaved by The Controllers!! :ROFL:

[Wind]

Even if they burned all of the books in the world the truth will never be erased or forgotten.

[DeeMetrios]

Nokodemjon , from the planet Sadar... it is said he was the first human form to complete the 60-80 billion material life, 60-80 million half spirit half material, then he entered into the first pure spirit level 4 billion years , then the last pure spirit level of Petale, then he merged to be one with the Creation, 12 billion years ago , he came back to the reincarnation cycle for the people fell away from the spirit teaching, wars ensued, he created a clone army and in 4 years restored peace, came to our universe 389,000 years ago as the first Enoch, of which there were three, the most recent was 9,000 years ago, he came back in the personalities we know as Enoch , Isaiah, Elijah, Jeremiah, Immanuel and Muhammad , teachers of spirit... not trying to ruffle the feathers, this is just my understanding of what i have read ... im not sure i should even say anymore, i dont want trouble ...believe freely as you like about reincarnation ...

wow !! .... & we are led to beleive that time is an illusion & all exists in the now ?

[ghostrider]

The future is always slipping into the past ... everything comes down to each individuals perspective and level of evolution ... it's up to you to decide how you view it ...

[Hervé]

[...]

wow !! .... & we are led to beleive that time is an illusion & all exists in the now ?
Well, that's not a lie, per se... it's just never explained correctly or accurately, just colossally mis-interpreted:

Because, who decides when "NOW" is? Only "something" that has a memory of yesterday, today and some expectation that tomorrow will be there... on time :)

Or, because the now moment contains the effects/memories of the past which are influencing (or not) the current moment as well as the potential effects on the future, whether immediate or long term.

When one loses grip of a glass made of glass above a tiled floor... memories of previous similar events predict it's gonna break unless one manages to make the glass land on one's foot or is telekinetic enough to make it fly to the kitchen counter... so that's a "NOW" moment with all of its three components: Past, Present and potential Future; all contained in one's mind all at once.

This Solar system is about 4.5 billion years old. Yet, a freshly expelled lava flow from Kilauea can argue with some Archean lava flow about "when did time start" for them... yesterday... or billion of years ago according to the memories recorded in their mineral contents... it's a sort of "recycling" of memories, much like re-incarnation is for living organisms (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100573-Living-samples-of-planet-s-oldest-life-forms).

[greybeard]

For something to be true it has to be undeniable and always true.
If I drop a hammer , its going to fall--if it hits my foot there is going to be pain.

In our world of duality we live with cause and effect-- the cause can be the same but have different end results.
A person may get shot, they may or may not die--depends on many things.

In non duality no one dies--the body does.
There would seem to be a cross over point between non-duality and duality.
Some might call that enlightenment.

The late Dr David Hawkins--claimed past lives as does Adyashanti--both enlightened it would seem.
Im open minded.

Chris

[Rich]

I know I exist, thats not a belief, not at thought, this does not need thinking to confirm.


Well said Chris, that's why ACIM says nothing needs to be done, it is our doing that seems to take us away from what we are,
that doing is ego (like another bob said in tims thread; the ego is an activity).
Yet what we are has been eternally established by God, and our thoughts are ineffectual to change this.

[Rich]

One more important thing to consider: we are not really incarnated, the world arises in our mind and then we attach to a body and say it is us.

[greybeard]

I know I exist, thats not a belief, not at thought, this does not need thinking to confirm.


Well said Chris, that's why ACIM says nothing needs to be done, it is our doing that seems to take us away from what we are,
that doing is ego (like another bob said in tims thread; the ego is an activity).
Yet what we are has been eternally established by God, and our thoughts are ineffectual to change this.
"

Yes EmEx---current mystics say much the same.

You will probably remember the exact quote from ACIM which starts. "The moment you take up a position know that you are identifying with an illusion"

There is a lot in "A course in miracles" worth considering.
Im not fond of the first part but the work book is excellent.

Ch

[Rich]

You will probably remember the exact quote from ACIM which starts. "The moment you take up a position know that you are identifying with an illusion"

Makes a lot of sense, might have read it but don't remember to be honest.


The "Hero" of the Dream

The body is the central figure in the dreaming of the world. There is no dream without it, nor does it exist without the dream in which it acts as if it were a person to be seen and be believed. It takes the central place in every dream, which tells the story of how it was made by other bodies, born into the world outside the body, lives a little while and dies, to be united in the dust with other bodies dying like itself. In the brief time allotted it to live, it seeks for other bodies as its friends and enemies. Its safety is its main concern. Its comfort is its guiding rule. It tries to look for pleasure, and avoid the things that would be hurtful. Above all, it tries to teach itself its pains and joys are different and can be told apart.

The dreaming of the world takes many forms, because the body seeks in many ways to prove it is autonomous and real. It puts things on itself that it has bought with little metal discs or paper strips the world proclaims as valuable and real. It works to get them, doing senseless things, and tosses them away for senseless things it does not need and does not even want.

It hires other bodies, that they may protect it and collect more senseless things that it can call its own. It looks about for special bodies that can share its dream. Sometimes it dreams it is a conqueror of bodies weaker than itself. But in some phases of the dream, it is the slave of bodies that would hurt and torture it.
The body's serial adventures, from the time of birth to dying are the theme of every dream the world has ever had. The "hero" of this dream will never change, nor will its purpose. Though the dream itself takes many forms, and seems to show a great variety of places and events wherein its "hero" finds itself, the dream has but one purpose, taught in many ways. This single lesson does it try to teach again, and still again, and yet once more; that it is cause and not effect. And you are its effect, and cannot be its cause.
Thus are you not the dreamer, but the dream. And so you wander idly in and out of places and events that it contrives. That this is all the body does is true, for it is but a figure in a dream. But who reacts to figures in a dream unless he sees them as if they were real? The instant that he sees them as they are they have no more effects on him, because he understands he gave them their effects by causing them and making them seem real.

How willing are you to escape effects of all the dreams the world has ever had? Is it your wish to let no dream appear to be the cause of what it is you do? Then let us merely look upon the dream's beginning, for the part you see is but the second part, whose cause lies in the first. No one asleep and dreaming in the world remembers his attack upon himself. No one believes there really was a time when he knew nothing of a body, and could never have conceived this world as real. He would have seen at once that these ideas are one illusion, too ridiculous for anything but to be laughed away. How serious they now appear to be! And no one can remember when they would have met with laughter and with disbelief. We can remember this, if we but look directly at their cause. And we will see the grounds for laughter, not a cause for fear.

Let us return the dream he gave away unto the dreamer, who perceives the dream as separate from himself and done to him. Into eternity, where all is one, there crept a tiny, mad idea, at which the Son of God remembered not to laugh. In his forgetting did the thought become a serious idea, and possible of both accomplishment and real effects. Together, we can laugh them both away, and understand that time cannot intrude upon eternity. It is a joke to think that time can come to circumvent eternity, which means there is no time.

A timelessness in which is time made real; a part of God that can attack itself; a separate brother as an enemy; a mind within a body all are forms of circularity whose ending starts at its beginning, ending at its cause. The world you see depicts exactly what you thought you did. Except that now you think that what you did is being done to you. The guilt for what you thought is being placed outside yourself, and on a guilty world that dreams your dreams and thinks your thoughts instead of you. It brings its vengeance, not your own. It keeps you narrowly confined within a body, which it punishes because of all the sinful things the body does within its dream. You have no power to make the body stop its evil deeds because you did not make it, and cannot control its actions nor its purpose nor its fate.

The world but demonstrates an ancient truth; you will believe that others do to you exactly what you think you did to them. But once deluded into blaming them you will not see the cause of what they do, because you want the guilt to rest on them. How childish is the petulant device to keep your innocence by pushing guilt outside yourself, but never letting go! It is not easy to perceive the jest when all around you do your eyes behold its heavy consequences, but without their trifling cause. Without the cause do its effects seem serious and sad indeed. Yet they but follow. And it is their cause that follows nothing and is but a jest.
In gentle laughter does the Holy Spirit perceive the cause, and looks not to effects. How else could He correct your error, who have overlooked the cause entirely? He bids you bring each terrible effect to Him that you may look together on its foolish cause and laugh with Him a while. You judge effects, but He has judged their cause. And by His judgment are effects removed. Perhaps you come in tears. But hear Him say, "My brother, holy Son of God, behold your idle dream, in which this could occur. "And you will leave the holy instant with your laughter and your brother's joined with His.

The secret of salvation is but this: that you are doing this unto yourself. No matter what the form of the attack, this still is true. Whoever takes the role of enemy and of attacker, still is this the truth. Whatever seems to be the cause of any pain and suffering you feel, this is still true. For you would not react at all to figures in a dream you knew that you were dreaming. Let them be as hateful and as vicious as they may, they could have no effect on you unless you failed to recognize it is your dream.

This single lesson learned will set you free from suffering, whatever form it takes. The Holy Spirit will repeat this one inclusive lesson of deliverance
until it has been learned, regardless of the form of suffering that brings you pain. Whatever hurt you bring to Him He will make answer with this very simple truth. For this one answer takes away the cause of every form of sorrow and of pain. The form affects His answer not at all, for He would teach you but the single cause of all of them, no matter what their form. And you will understand that miracles reflect the simple statement, " I have done this thing, and it is this I would undo. "
Bring, then, all forms of suffering to Him Who knows that every one is like the rest. He sees no differences where none exists, and He will teach you how each one is caused. None has a different cause from all the rest, and all of them are easily undone by but a single lesson truly learned.

Salvation is a secret you have kept but from yourself. The universe proclaims it so. Yet to its witnesses you pay no heed at all. For they attest the thing you do not want to know. They seem to keep it secret from you. Yet you need but learn you chose but not to listen, not to see.
How differently will you perceive the world when this is recognized! When you forgive the world your guilt, you will be free of it. Its innocence does not demand your guilt, nor does your guiltlessness rest on its sins. This is the obvious; a secret kept from no one but yourself. And it is this that has maintained you separate from the world, and kept your brother separate from you. Now need you but to learn that both of you are innocent or guilty. The one thing that is impossible is that you be unlike each other; that they both be true. This is the only secret yet to learn. And it will be no secret you are healed.

[DeeMetrios]

& if time is an illusion ...
.......
Why is it always "past life regression" ?

[Wind]

Because they did happen in the past when viewed from the historical viewpoint. In this physical world there is time... Which is relative.

[petra]

If reincarnation is true then why doesn't God improve His personal counseling skills to help us to not get reincarnated again in order that we might enjoy His perpetual creation while having an instilled memory?

This made me chuckle! "Gee Whiz, God. I can't even enjoy your creation properly - a little help please??" :)

I think something of this sort is already happening, but it would not be God who is learning because God is perfect. I get the impression that there's other beings besides us, who are learning too, but that's just a feeling.


Seems to me that karma isn't the issue here but rather irresponsibility on our part and God's.

The word irresponsible really stands out to me because that is exactly what my thoughts were telling me that I was. Irresponsible. The reason why is just part of a delusion - but the FEELING is what's important. What if you doomed the entire planet by accident? What if that carried over to all the other planets too? Imagine how awful you'd feel - well that's how I felt. For me it was like a whole new feeling I couldn't compare to any other feelings, so I named it the "Doom feeling". Feels really.... doomy :P

I think of God as being perfect, but sometimes I wonder with all the gross crap going on if it takes a toll on God. If we're suffering, that would mean God is suffering too wouldn't it? I just do not feel that suffering should be a necessary thing in order to increase our awareness - there's just GOT to be a better way of teaching than THAT.

[Joe Akulis]

I just do not feel that suffering should be a necessary thing in order to increase our awareness - there's just GOT to be a better way of teaching than THAT.

Are you thinking of suffering in terms of, "Well, you were a jerk to 100 people in a past life so that's why you were born with epilepsy in this life? That's definitely one factor that can contribute to the general field of "suffering", if you believe in some of the reincarnation and karma theories.

And based on a lot of regression stories, and other contributions to the field of study, like the Edgar Cayce library, it seems like most people are making that choice themselves -- to come back and find out what it's like when someone else is a jerk to you, so that next time you are placed in the position where it is possible for you to choose to be a jerk to someone else, you will be less likely to make that choice, thanks to your own subconscious experience and memories.

In cases like that, you could say that suffering isn't necessary; it's something you volunteered to understand better.

I think there is also a larger game at play when it comes to the topic of suffering. And that's the big dogs who have taken up a very serious pursuit of the art of domination. I bet there are certain people who are attracted to this place just so they can work on that kind of craft. Much like it appears the person who was General Patton has come here many times to pursue the art of leading large groups of people in combat. There are people who want to get better at playing God: manipulating the masses, causing and turning a blind eye to all the problems they create for others who are here for millions of other reasons. This takes being a jerk to a whole different level. :-)

I wonder if the divine governors who keep watch on our world are perhaps allowing some of this to take place because of the value of the experience gained by the folks who choose that line of pursuit. It gets into that yin/yang, light/dark, duality side of things I suppose.

Do you think you would agree to be abused in a particular lifetime so that a loved one could have another chance to properly meet their karma and have the choice to be a jerk to you again and finally decide not to? Is that partly what love is? One of us making a sacrifice so that someone else might make greater spiritual gains?

All of these questions come into play when you start learning about reincarnation. It's gets pretty deep, but it is way better than not having any answers at all as to why suffering exists. I'll take those conversations any day over, "God's ways are mysterious." :-)

Much love to all on this thread!
Joe

[petra]

I just do not feel that suffering should be a necessary thing in order to increase our awareness - there's just GOT to be a better way of teaching than THAT.

Are you thinking of suffering in terms of, "Well, you were a jerk to 100 people in a past life so that's why you were born with epilepsy in this life? That's definitely one factor that can contribute to the general field of "suffering", if you believe in some of the reincarnation and karma theories.

And based on a lot of regression stories, and other contributions to the field of study, like the Edgar Cayce library, it seems like most people are making that choice themselves -- to come back and find out what it's like when someone else is a jerk to you, so that next time you are placed in the position where it is possible for you to choose to be a jerk to someone else, you will be less likely to make that choice, thanks to your own subconscious experience and memories.

In cases like that, you could say that suffering isn't necessary; it's something you volunteered to understand better.

I'm not really thinking in any specific terms, I just feel as if there'd be a better way to learn "what not to do" than having to suffer through the results of your own (or other's) mistakes. You mentioned Cayce and although I haven't read much of his material (just material about him) I happen to recall he could see auras. I realize Cayce was special but I can't help but wonder what the world would be like if we could all "see" each other's feelings.



Do you think you would agree to be abused in a particular lifetime so that a loved one could have another chance to properly meet their karma and have the choice to be a jerk to you again and finally decide not to? Is that partly what love is? One of us making a sacrifice so that someone else might make greater spiritual gains?

Absolutely. Feels as if I already did that.... thanks this example Joe, seems as if you've really been around the block :) I imagine this has already happened over the course of existence a great many times. I think pretty much -any- parent would be willing to suffer (or even die) for their child, with very few exceptions.



All of these questions come into play when you start learning about reincarnation. It's gets pretty deep, but it is way better than not having any answers at all as to why suffering exists. I'll take those conversations any day over, "God's ways are mysterious." :-)

Ha ha I know that wall :) I never gave reincarnation much thought until a few years ago when I joined PA. Now it's becoming more interesting, I'm just dubious if it applies to me or not. I know if I started having memories of being a person who existed in the past, I'd be suspicious. If I woke up one morning and suddenly knew how to read German, I'd be VERY suspicious.

[greybeard]

As far as pain goes
We live in a world of duality--opposites.
There is a saying "That which gives you pleasure gives you pain" Just two sides of the same coin.

The path of non-duality--says that nothing is personal--life happens.
Into everyones life a drop of rain must fall.
Sometimes its a deluge--- but thats life doing what it does.

The mystics say that you in your essence is perfect--no lessons needed, no improvement possible.
Persona is forever changing. The Self is unchanging, Eternal, timeless.
One soul in the disguise of the many.

So reincarnation is most likely part of the grand play of consciousness.

All dreams seem very real--till awakening happens.
Self realization is simply awakening from the illusion of separation.

Make what you will of that.

Chris

[petra]

I guess I'd end up with the mystics then. Not to say my essence is perfect, I just don't feel as if I am learning anything of value, and so I question the need for lessons at all.

The lessons I am learning aren't really nice either, like "Trust no one" is probably the most valuable thing I have learned so far and that's kind of sad. Every time I sit down and honesty try to think of what I have learned so far (spiritually speaking) I am drawing a blank. I'm getting stuck because I don't think it's even possible for me to learn anything spiritual - and I really don't feel like it's just a simple case of me being an idiot. I simply don't expect to ever be able to understand, and if I ever do I am going to be very very surprised.

[Valerie Villars]

Petra, perhaps you came here to suffer to help heal the karmic ties of others. I know much of my own suffering feels unjust. What if you came to suffer as part of the hardcore gang who could take it and transmit what it is like to be human and suffer, not because of some karmic tie of your own? What if we really are living libraries and your soul is so strong and has so much courage that you were actually selected to come here and do battle, so to speak? What if? Makes things seem a little more bearable, doesn't it? You can hold your head a little higher and tell the naysayers to shove it up their a*s.

What if?

"High station in life is earned by the gallantry with which appalling experiences are survived with grace." - not sure who the author is

[Rich]

I guess I'd end up with the mystics then. Not to say my essence is perfect, I just don't feel as if I am learning anything of value, and so I question the need for lessons at all.

The lessons I am learning aren't really nice either, like "Trust no one" is probably the most valuable thing I have learned so far and that's kind of sad. Every time I sit down and honesty try to think of what I have learned so far (spiritually speaking) I am drawing a blank. I'm getting stuck because I don't think it's even possible for me to learn anything spiritual

You have learned to the degree that you are at peace/feel good, your mood/feelings will tell you how much you have learned. In other words, if we are unhappy we have a thought that is not true.

While spiritual concepts may be helpful, it is more of an unlearning of the false concepts we hold on to. The truth we cannot unknow, but it can be covered up.

[greybeard]

Em Ex has it .
All beliefs concepts are released in order to reveal what is always there--the Self--in other words Realization of the Self.
This not to say that life will not continue as before "Chopping wood . fetching water" --all real enough in this realm.
What changes is identification with the story of me.

The ancient teaching is Neity neity---not this not this.
Eventually or quickly a the case might be- there is no separation---no subject no object--just what is.
No longer an actor in the play of consciousness.

Reincarnation it would seem is part of the play.
Real enough to the participants.

‘All the world ‘s a stage, and all the men and women merely players. They have their exits and their entrances; And one man in his time plays many parts.’

(As You Like it Act 2, Scene 7)

https://www.nosweatshakespeare.com/quotes/famous-shakespeare-quotes/

[Navigator]

... In other words, if we are unhappy we have a thought that is not true.
...



Aligns perfectly with:
"All human suffering is created by a denial of the Truth" -- I can't recall the author of that one ...

Almost as soon as one has labeled something and "language-ized" it, it's truth has been denied. Our language is structured thus that it is automatically reductive.

If I say "this is a tree" - I have denied the tree it's truth. The truth is, I have no connection with the tree (that I am consciously speaking from), I do not understand the tree, how it works, what it's spirit is, what is the force behind its animation ... I don't know anything like this. So for me to reduce the object to the guttural sound "tree" without actually having that sound be an intimate connection, means I have denied truth, and reduced this beautiful living thing to a sound for purpose of a label.


"This is a tree" -- a "sin" is automatically created by denying the tree its Truth.

"I call this a tree" -- avoids the "sin" by putting the acknowledgment of "tree" being a label, between my myself and the life-form we call a tree.

So subtle but so important ... to not deny Truth - can be done simply with subtle changes in the way we communicate. (okay, maybe not "simply", but it can be done through augmenting verbal communication)


I'm probably way off topic, just thought I'd add that in. :)

[petra]

Wow. Interesting way of putting it! If we are unhappy.... we have a thought that is not true. This is making much more sense to me than human suffering being caused by denial.

"I call this a tree" is really a wonderful way of explaining the language difference, I'm even glad you used a tree. I love trees! Though in my case I'd be more like "I call this a big tall green thing with branches and leaves on the branches".... perhaps that's a bit extreme, maybe I should just draw a diagram :)

[DeeMetrios]

Because they did happen in the past when viewed from the historical viewpoint. In this physical world there is time... Which is relative.

so ...... "future life regression" should be possible ?

does reincarnation happen in chronological order ?

[greybeard]

Because they did happen in the past when viewed from the historical viewpoint. In this physical world there is time... Which is relative.

so ...... "future life regression" should be possible ?

does reincarnation happen in chronological order ?

Dee Metrios
It would seem that past lives are in chronological order.
In a dream anything is possible--so in theory it would be possible to come back from the future.
I dont think any of it relevant to this lifetime--this moment.

It would seem possible that a person male now was female in previous life times--or a tree for that matter.
There is nothing but consciousness, which is formless, therefore it can take on, incarnate, as any form.

Chris

[DeeMetrios]

thank you chris ...

[petra]

I feel as if I have had "glimpses" of "future incarnations" of myself, so I think it's possible to see into your own future in that manner. I should say though, I don't believe it's possible to predict the future this way.

Additionally there was a time when I was concerned I might be "chanelling" some kind of entity against my will, and a friend of mine suggested perhaps I was chanelling my future self. At the time I dismissed it as foolish because really, I don't see "me in the future" being all that much smarter than "me right now". But a after a while I began to consider I could be in contact with a future incarnation of myself. Let's assume for a moment that is what's actually happening. If that is the case, I would assume my "future incarnation" and myself that I know as ME would have to be aware at the same time in order to communicate with each other.

I guess it boils down to whether or not it's possible to be incarnated in two places at the one time. Then there's the whole idea of "time" and perception of time too.

On my drive home yesterday I was thinking about what Emex said again, and something amusing happened in my thoughts too.

ME (pondering): If we are unhappy.... we have a thought that is not true.....
Train of thought #1: But I'm always unhappy...
Train of thought #2: That is not true!
ME: Oh come ON (sarcastically)

[Rich]

I feel as if I have had "glimpses" of "future incarnations" of myself, so I think it's possible to see into your own future in that manner. I should say though, I don't believe it's possible to predict the future this way.
According to Bashar all incarnations happen all at once, and every moment is here, we just look at whatever event we think is happening now.



On my drive home yesterday I was thinking about what Emex said again, and something amusing happened in my thoughts too.

ME (pondering): If we are unhappy.... we have a thought that is not true.....
Train of thought #1: But I'm always unhappy...
Train of thought #2: That is not true!
ME: Oh come ON (sarcastically)
^^
ACIM tells us there are no neutral thoughts.
Love either exists or it does not, and if it does,
suffering is not possible, unless we believe
a thought that is not true.


When you are sad, know this need not be. Depression comes from a sense of being deprived of something you want and do not have. Remember that you are deprived of nothing except by your own decisions, and then decide otherwise.

[petra]

According to Bashar all incarnations happen all at once, and every moment is here, we just look at whatever event we think is happening now.


All incarnations happening at once sounds right to me, or better yet feels right, it's just hard to make sense of with our idea of time as a measurement. But I do remember a time when it did make sense!

For a while I felt as if every other person was just like "another me". That would be a bit extreme though wouldn't it. I panicked a bit then - I was calling it the "same person glitch" ha ha



ACIM tells us there are no neutral thoughts.
Love either exists or it does not, and if it does,
suffering is not possible, unless we believe
a thought that is not true.


I had to look up ACIM, and as soon as I looked it up I understand why I don't understand... :) Feels like going in a circle, like when people say God is Love, that makes no sense to me either. I believe in God and I believe in Love, but you can't say "God is Love"... because if you do, in my mind, you're breaking the language!



When you are sad, know this need not be. Depression comes from a sense of being deprived of something you want and do not have. Remember that you are deprived of nothing except by your own decisions, and then decide otherwise.


In regards to this quote, I'm getting nowhere with this either. Sadness just kind of comes upon me in waves sometimes. I consider some times when I am watching TV and I cry a lot (and not just at the sad parts). I could be watching a cartoon and crying. Crying feels good sometimes... I don't necessarily think it's a "negative emotion" (which would be different from a negative thought). and I have to practically fight with my thoughts so they will LET ME CRY.

I'm sure everyone has had times when they're so happy they could cry, but what about happy and sad at once. I think I've had that too, and that particular feeling is really puzzling to me. I don't even know what to call it, so I've been calling it "Happy-Sad Feeling"

[Ewan]

As long as you are caught up in time much of this will elude you. To be caught up in time is to be caught up in mind.

If you can ask yourself "What's wrong with this moment?" and arrive at the answer "Absolutely nothing." regardless of circumstance you are on the right path to freedom.

I've recently been reading the findings of Pribram (The Holographic Brain) and related spin-offs and ultimately there IS nothing out there! Our brains are like radio receivers tuned to a limited frequency range for the materialisation of a 3d universe in front of our eyes. (Damn it, language is so confusing!)

Wave interference patterns are decoded by our brains and via the optic nerves we 'see' the 3D representation of that interference pattern. So we can reach out and take that apple from the tree, just as Eve demonstrated to Adam, and the universe doesn't collapse.

The power of belief, especially when it is reinforced by virtually everyone you meet, can literally create a world for you to live in.

It also explains how faith can move mountains, literally.

(Now don't get me wrong, I'm not some guru floating around in neon clouds looking down on you simpletons. When I reach out my hand and take a bottle of be, erm.. apple, I'm utterly convinced I'm holding something solid and if I hold enough solid things for long enough I'll get completely dru, erm... sated with apples. That's a powerful thing to overthrow, your entire foundations built on an axiomatic belief system.)

That may explain reincarnation in a nutshell, if you can make sense of it. As long as you believe in this world you will keep coming here, or somehwere similar.

Unfortunately the logical understanding of it is merely the first step in what will prove to be a very long path, unless you find a shortcut - and there be dragons!

[DeeMetrios]

According to Bashar all incarnations happen all at once, and every moment is here, we just look at whatever event we think is happening now.


hmmmmm , leaves me even more confused , hehe :bigsmile: & sorry for going of topic but ...
Bashar , never resonated with me , disconnected more dots than connected & thus I only spent 4 or 5 hrs listening to him .
Im grateful I discovered Kryon who speaks thru Lee Carrol back then in 2012 , his wisdom & energy make Bashar seems like an ego maniac in comparison .
cheers

[O Donna]

One way I have viewed reincarnation is as an individual consciousness constantly reinventing itself.

[Miaspri]

I love the Lee Carroll/Kryon channellings. Very informative and loving.

[conk]

I know I exist, thats not a belief, not at thought, this does not need thinking to confirm.


Well said Chris, that's why ACIM says nothing needs to be done, it is our doing that seems to take us away from what we are,
that doing is ego (like another bob said in tims thread; the ego is an activity).
Yet what we are has been eternally established by God, and our thoughts are ineffectual to change this.
"

Yes EmEx---current mystics say much the same.

You will probably remember the exact quote from ACIM which starts. "The moment you take up a position know that you are identifying with an illusion"

There is a lot in "A course in miracles" worth considering.
Im not fond of the first part but the work book is excellent.

Ch

Dr. Hawkins says we only need use the workbook, that all can be gleaned from it. There are also briefs and summaries that are quite good. It's interesting to simply open up the ACIM book to any page and marvel at the content that is germane in that instant.

[greybeard]

Hi Conk
Its nice to see the late Dr David Hawkins quoted.
I devoured his books.
He also said that the work book was possibly channeled from a different source.
Whatever, for anyone serious about their spiritual evolution ---getting off the wheel of birth and death (reincarnation) --its a good course of daily lessons.

Ch

[Bo Atkinson]

The original post asked three “who questions” and three “why questions”, (generally aimed at the sensibility of life’s official purposes). I finally found a very satisfying, new presentation to process all these related questions, after decades of searching through life purposes. More importantly, how to get “an internal broadband connection”, largely working through dream-visions. This new dream practice provides far clearer symbolic answers, which are occasionally fun loving.

My skeptical inquirer, always sittings on my shoulder, is humored and my earlier life difficulties are cleared up. I’ve always been inclined to something like self advancement, rather than praying for external help. I was reluctant at first, to accept this dream vision guidance. It also turns out that presenting this curious availability to others, is key to expanding one’s own internal broadband/infinite-band connection. So the mentioned presentation is much more than these mere paragraphs suggest.

I refer to a presenter who writes more with “street smarts”, rather than as a great intellect, (or as a mystic would write). This was in fact planned by the “Real Guides”, who set up his life, (over previous life times, as he explains it). This is a rare window of opportunity, for all, before the world inclines more intensively, into the heavier controlled-prison-planet-mode. After the guides attract those who are truly ready to leave our local universe: physical-astral-causal-mental-psychic body life . Only the “risk takers” will work diligently to see this aspect. As the most comfortable people will just ignore this intensive presentation, as they ignore ongoing evidence of ecocide and transhumanism, etc.. These factors are the outcome and choice of the world owners.

The deal is, that this world is actually owned by the current controllers and most humans choose to stay inside their lovely reincarnation merry-go-round. Most are inclining to remain with the controllers. Even many decisive people will go on living prone to recycle, onwards through continued, (memory wiped), reincarnations. It is entirely a matter of choice, their is no revolution planned here, at all. Reincarnation is not the focus of this NU Presentation, (which is about much more than the local, unlit universe) .

Following are some excerpted paragraphs and definitions, not intellectualized and somewhat emphasized through special, street-smart jargon), copy-pasted from NU Book 6:

“Modern science has no Real Explanation to a person's Dream Visions. They can only observe and see what comes from it, as each person tells their tale of the worlds beyond. Here again is where many humans have lost their TruSight for anything more than their Literal Senses, as most people feel more secure with an 'officialness' statement from some governing agency that will most likely deny anything of Real Value, unless it suits their purposes. Agencies like the FDA, the AMA, the UN, the FBI, the CIA, and so many other contrived government takeovers, have forced their way into people's lives to where most people are so afraid to make a professional decision on their own. Maybe at one time these agencies had their place, but today it is the almighty dollar that talks louder and is more convincing. So, it is really up to each person to decide if what they are experiencing is Real to them or not. None of what anyone does is a put down, but it only makes sense to wakeup to what is really going on with this world and those who have been hired to run it. I am providing the option to excel past reincarnation and karma, and each and every person who sincerely does The NU-U Sessions, will at some point Realize and PerSeeve what I am Presenting.”
~~~~~~
“There comes a time when each of us wants to know where we have come from and the many experiences we have gone through. No matter what becomes of our life, it has all been from the choices we have made. Eventually, after the longest road of endeavor, we do long for Something Real, from chasing all that we have and always ending up with basically nothing, but a lot of memories. Then we forget everything and are once again somewhere we have no idea of.” (reincarnated once more)
~~~~~~~

“REALFREEDOM...This is the position all The Real UNUversal Guides have with The TruReality LifeIS, and they are making this opportunity available right Now to others. The RealGuides take over the karma of their NUStudents from the Lords of Karma and make sure it is worked off in this lifetime. The RealGuides provide The RealGift for ALL!

"THE NU~U SESSIONS...When Paul was here he had his techniques, and so it is with The NU-U Sessions. Doing The NU~U Sessions at least once a day before bedtime connects one in their DreamVisions to The RealGuidance. Sit in silence for 15 to 30 minutes and just relax without doing anything. Look for The RealLight and listen for The Sound of THE IS, then softly Sing... “NU~U~U~U and draw it out”
NUSTUDENT...One who is studying the written works of THE NUMAN and practicing The RealConnection, The NU-U Sessions.

"THE NU / UTUN...The RealAwareniss, The RealU that Becomes NU when The RealConnection is made by The Real UNUversal Guides. A soul is unaware until they become 'NU.' Also 'Utun & YU'

"REALGUIDANCE...Unlike the systems of the earth and what is taught here, The RealGuides provide a directness and assurance not found amongst the REPSystems with their dictators and rulers. There are many levels of guidance, but only Rebazar Tarzs and The Real UNUversal Guides are direct with THE ALLIS.

"REAL EXPERIENCE...This is where we are shown What IS Real Now as apposed to just reading something and then 'believing' it to be so. With RealExperience we eventually have our own life without any restrictions from the three lower levels and the Authoritarians.

"DREAMVISIONS...These are the nightly experiences and episodes one has with The RealGuides where The NUStudent is taken to Unseen Worlds and shown The UNUversal Files and all that is Real and True. This is the first steps to The Real UNUverses of THE IS.

"THE THREE LOWER LEVELS...These positions entail the physical material RoundWorlds of human residence and unawareness as the lowest reality of phenomena in life. Above this is the Astral Heaven where most people go after their departure from the earth or other RoundWorlds, where the brother of the Kalaum God rules as Lord Jehovah and other identities bestowed upon him. Above The First Heaven of Man is the Causal and Mental Worlds ruled by Lord Kalaum, the god of all faiths and beliefs of the lower levels. The Two Heavens of man reside as the destined destinations of all unaware Souls who will 'meet their maker,' so to speak in their afterlife and be directed by the Lords of Karma as to where they must go and continue their lower process until they one day meet with The Real UNUversal Guides to take them into The TruReality LifeIS.

"THE GODS OF MAN...These entities are the governors, the lords and rulers within the Two Heavens of Man that most of the unaware keep thinking is The TruReality. These creatures oversee The Dualistic Powers of good and bad and they do not promote The Real Connection, The SoundLight Reality of THE ALLIS. These gods are also known as the Space Gods, as their job is to make sure all Souls stay unaware of The Real UNUverses of Real Freedom and PurLight.

"THE TWO HEAVENS OF MAN...The Astral and Mental Worlds above the physical realm. Wonderful places to visit, but without The Real Guides, one will be returning for more lifetimes of searching for The RealLight of THE IS. THE NUWAVIS HERE & NOW!

"THE ROUNDWORLDS...The lowest order of life on small and insignificant rocks in black space unaware humans think of as Life, but are actually a 'Place in Life' for educational experiences like prisons for captives. RealGuidance & RealEducation allows one to escape.

"THE REPSYSTEMS...Religious, Educational, Political and SciFi- Social Systems that have been established by the whims of the human mind. Because these systems use the best resources, they have the best fronts to present to the unaware public. It is for sure an honest mistake most people are making, but one of choice.

'THE KALUAM GOD...The Lord God of all the followers of the Belief Systems on earth and up to The Mental Worlds. His identity will differ from faith to faith, but they are all still him. He is The Three Headed God with the Deceptive Faces of Benevolence, Fear and Influence.

"JEHOVAH...Brother of The Kalaum God, ruler and god of The Astral Worlds. He is a little bit nicer than his brother, the Kalaum God.

"THE AUTHORITARIANS AND BRUTALITARIANS...These people (The REPSystems) and their contrived agencies are The TaskMasters for The Gods of Man on earth. They make all the rules and regulations to make sure all the unaware humans stay asleep to The TruReality and never escape the drudgery of reincarnation and karma and their 9 to 5 boring jobs. In our modern society these offenders burden people as slaves to paperwork as one way to keep them confused along with all the worthless political issues of the day. These stinkers especially love people who are couch potatoes.

"TAPLINING...These are the unseen connections made by the Dark Forces and their Korporate Krones to Kontrol unsuspecting souls who rely on their ignorant position of looking to the Invented REPSystems and their Gods of Men for their livelihood. TapLines are placed in mainly the Astral Body as people 'Agree' to deception, such as the HeadMasters of Korporations who lure people into MemberShrimps.

"DREAMARENA...This is usually a person's own Dream Worlds and their decided areas of experience besides their physical life.

"THE LORDS OF KARMA...Assigned to make sure each unaware Soul gets their due rewards and punishments in the three lower levels.

"SPIRITUAL...A term widely used for eons as the identifying label as something divine, and so it is with those who practice all the religious, political, occult and various psychic sciences, but has nothing to do with The TruReality LifeIS, THE ALLIS, nor The Real UNUversal Guides. The RealGuides do not recognize the shortcomings of what humans have invented and look to as Something Real. The RealGuides provide What IS Real, moreso than anything spiritual.

"SOUL...Those lost and unaware individuals who are originally from The TruReality LifeIS, THE ALLIS. Until one Becomes NU with The RealConnection, they will continue to recycle into brand new bodies unconsciously until they meets The Real

"UNUversal Guides. YU Now have a Real Opportunity like never before to Become MoreAware and Totally Free, but YU must take The Risk or stay the same!

"BELIEF, FAITH AND HOPE...These three are The Trinity of the REPSystems, those who have established these ideas firmly in the subconscious of their followers for lifetimes. They only apply to the first three levels of life and do not exist in The Real UNUverses where there is only REALTRUTH & REALFREEDOM, THE ALLIS.

"HUMAN HISTORY...The events of the past that all of us have been through and lived before. When our present Human History of this earth is looked at closely it is seen that many of the establishments of today were directly from Purposely Planned conflicts and takeovers that have become common place. The decisions that were made way back when are Now what most people are living and Waking Up to.

"TAPLINING ALIENS... This world is finally Waking Up to what has been taking place for eons, TapLining! As each one of us have our own journey, those who have become the most Deceptive and Corrupt are now living a life they never wanted, but they have become the Effect of what they have created for themselves, and because they have, they are trapped into a continual downward spiral. They are the Reptilian Alien TapLiners and they have been in Kontrol of the earth!

"FOR MORE INFORMATION ABOUT WAKING UP NOW...
'THE ADVENTURIS SERIES' 'THE TRUCOMPLETENESS COURSE'
EMAIL DUANE&EVA... DUANETHEGREATWRITER@INBOX.COM
www.DuaneTheGreatWriter.Info
www.TheNUPresentation.Info
THE NUPRESENTATION FOUNDATION
ALLHUMANITARIAN DEVELOPERS AND EDUCATORS

Updated PDF Version, NU Book 6 (http://www.wonderfulworldwideeducators.com/store/products/58422-your-dreamvisions-nubook-six-pdf)
Three choices of printed NU Book 6 (http://www.wonderfulworldwideeducators.com/store/products/101593-nubook-six-your-dreamvisions-the-realside-lifeis)
[/URL]
[URL="https://www.lulu.com/shop/view-cart.ep"]Older reduced cost e-versions of NU Book 6 on Lulu (http://www.wonderfulworldwideeducators.com/store/products/58422-your-dreamvisions-nubook-six-pdf)

Addendum: As of June 2018, I am seeing a whole new side of the NU Presentation:
http://harmoniouspalette.com/Blog2018.html#june2018 (Addendum: As of June 2018, I am seeing a whole new side of the NU Presentation:
http://harmoniouspalette.com/Blog2018.html#june2018)

[onawah]

Amazing Things Kids Have Said About Past Lives That Even Skeptics Can't Explain
UAMN TV
Published on Jul 6, 2018

"Young children sometimes report details of a previous life, which upon checking turn out to be accurate and which they could not have known about in any other way than reincarnation. Reveals overwhelming evidence of past life memories in children. Not only are such experiences real, they are far more common than most people realize.

The interesting thing is that 100 percent of subjects who report past life remembrance are children. They can happen any time to any very young child, but parents often don't notice because they don't know it's possible or don't know what to look for..."

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[Didgevillage]

It would seem that past lives are in chronological order.



I heard Barbara Marciniak say that you can reincarnate into the past with the full knowledge that you have gained in the current life, thus creating a new timeline.

"Timeline" is a difficult concept, but the past doesn't appear to be constant as the phenomenon of "Mandela effects" shows. New timelines get created while some timelines collapse.

As for Mandela effects, I really don't care about popular culture, but such things as the mask of Tutankhamen (one cobra vs cobra and vulture) and the USSR flag hoisted on the Reichstag building in May 1945 (a star added to hammer and sickle) seem more significant.

[East Sun]

When my wife was a child she told her father that she used to be a man.

When my son was very young he told me that he used to be the Daddy of me.

Dr Stephenson(sp) did a lot of research on reincarnation and wrote a book on it.

ES

[Didgevillage]

Most of Dr Stephenson's work involves cultures where reincarnation is taken for granted.

This clip is relatively good. But there is more to the story. The boy remembered members of the aircraft carrier when he was taken to their reunion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYE0WEFz_OA

My question is:
Why do we (or many of us) believe that "science" can explain everything and that it is superior to the supernatural?

[frankstien]

I had an experience once when I was really down and upset about an event in my life. At the time I was doing the Chinese exercise Tai Chi. I had just started the form when a voice spoke to me from the top of my head. It said "Hey who is this Frank Stien guy, and what's he up to anyway?" At first I was completely freaked out, then I started to smile because I recognized this voice and knew I had heard it before, and not this life, but in a previous one. In that moment I knew reincarnation was real, and that our spirit never dies, that there is really nothing to be afraid of. This voice, like an old friend, helped me see it's just a show on stage and I am an actor
on that stage. The voice was humoring me because I was taking things a little TOO seriously, and I needed to get my life in cosmic perspective.
The late comedian Bill Hicks spoke of this stage or as he called it - a ride.

Bill Hicks - It's Just A Ride
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[Rich]

Valuable points frankstien, I also read about someone who had a near death experience mention the same thing about taking herself too serious.
We are not the body, this body is like an avatar, in order to experience this dimension.
Similar like we do when we play a character in a computer game, it's not really "us" but we have to use the character to act and experience the game.

[Ernie Nemeth]

A video game is far more 'real' in that sense, I would say.

In 'real' life we come into the body and retain no memory of our 'true' lives. We are given no operating instructions or mode of use manual. There are no rules and the 'game' itself is rigged. Blind, deaf, and dumb, we stumble through life until we are dead. We accumulate knowledge and experience but none of it is ever irrefutable or correct because the rules continually change and the facts collected can transmute from right to wrong on a whim. And there is no reset - at least no memory of one...

So, no, 'real' life is nothing like a video game - a video game is played on a level playing field and its appeal is its immutable rules and laws that anyone can excel at if they take the time.

'Real' life is a cruel joke in comparison.

Which brings up the point of how our little programmed 'games' are far more fair, equitable, and enviable than the 'reality' we live in that was supposedly created by a god. I guess gods have a lot to learn from our programmers...

[TomKat]

I like what Brad Steiger said about reincarnation. Paraphrased: If you are Joe, you will always be Joe... unless you reincarnate. If you then reincarnate as Betty, you will always be Betty... unless you reincarnate.

I like it because it's simple and doesn't require the whole Higher Self/Oversoul structure of Jane Roberts and many others.

[Kryztian]

The Strange Case of the Reincarnation of Anne Frank
https://mysteriousuniverse.org/2021/11/the-strange-case-of-the-reincarnation-of-anne-frank/
Brent Swancer

We have long been enamored with the thought of what happens to us after we die. It is a conundrum that has consumed scientists, philosophers, and great thinkers since time unremembered and perhaps always will. We have no more of an answer to this fundamental existential question now than we did since the very first flickers of consciousness bubbled up into the brains of our long forgotten ancestors, but there have been many ideas. One of these is the idea that we are some how reborn and recycled into a new body after death, and the cases of reincarnation are varied and at times very bizarre. A very intriguing case revolves around a woman who from childhood would insist that she was the reincarnation of the famous Anne Frank, in a case that has never been satisfactorily explained.

Many readers will immediately know the name of Annelies Marie Frank, or more popularly known as Anne Frank. Born in 1929 in Frankfurt, Germany, she had the bad fortune of being born Jewish in a place that was not welcoming to them at all at the time. Her family moved to Amsterdam, Netherlands, in 1934 when Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Party gained control over Germany, when she was at the age of four and a half, but this did little to protect them. When the Germans occupied the Netherlands in 1940, they began persecuting the Jewish population there as much as anywhere else, and as it intensified, Anne and her family went into hiding to live in cramped hidden rooms behind a bookcase in the place of work of Anne’s father, Otto Frank. There they stayed hidden in the shadows and Anne would write a diary every day of the horrors of war and their predicament, all the way up until they were discovered and arrested by the Gestapo in August 1944 and sent off to concentration camps. Anne would die around 15th April 1945 at the notorious Bergen-Belsen concentration camp. The only survivor of the family during the war would be Otto Frank, who would later find that his daughter’s diary had been saved by his secretary, and it would later be published in 1947 as The Diary of a Young Girl, later known as The Diary of Anne Frank, perhaps one of the most well-known memoirs there is, and the second biggest selling book after the Bible. It is all a very tragic tale, and although Anne Frank lives on in her book and the hearts of millions, it seems that she may have lived on in other ways as well.

In 1954, a girl named Barbro Karlen was born to Christian parents in the country of Sweden, and from an early age was plagued by nightmares that caused her to wake screaming in the middle if the night. When she was just 3 years old, she surprised her parents when she calmly said that her name was not Barbro, but rather Anne. At first this seemed like just a whim, but it soon became obvious that the girl was serious, insisting on being called Anne and later even claiming that her parents were not her real parents and that her full name was in fact “Anne Frank.” Throughout all of this she had recurring nightmares of men in uniform kicking down her door, and at the time Barbro’s parents did not understand the meaning of all of this because they had never heard of Anne Frank and of course their young daughter wouldn’t have heard of her either, as the book had only been translated into a few languages and not Swedish at that point. To them their daughter was just going through some fantasy, but things would get stranger.

Her parents would bring her to see a psychiatrist, but she would not open up about these experiences to him, and so he told them that she was just a normal little girl going through some troubles. He told them that she would grow out of it, and so life went on. By the age of 12, Barbro had gone on to become quite the literary prodigy, penning a book of poetry called Man on Earth, which far from just a child’s scribbled ramblings would go onto become one of the most popular books in her native Sweden, and she would write nine more volumes in the series. During this time, she kept mostly quiet with the talk of Anne Frank, and was even herself starting to think she might be losing her mind. Even when she learned who Anne Frank was, she was so shocked and so tired of being treated like an over imaginative child that she kept it all to herself.

Things got a bit eerie when her parents took her to Amsterdam on a vacation to visit as part of a European tour, and as soon as they were there, they decided to visit the Anne Frank house. Although Barbro had never been to Amsterdam and had no instructions, she immediately knew how to get to the Anne Frank house, taking them unerringly through a walk through the twisting streets of the city to arrive at their destination. Once they were there, she was able to find her way around the house, making comments about how the place had used to look and what pictures had been in her room, and her parents were finally starting to see what all of this talk of being Anne Frank was, even beginning to believe she might be the girl reincarnated. In his book Born Again, Walter Semkiw, MD would write of this strange visit:


That’s strange,” Barbro said, when they stood in front of the steps up to the house. “It didn’t look like this before.” She looked wonderingly and her parents didn’t know what to say. They entered the house and went up the long narrow staircase. Barbro, who had been so carefree when showing them the way, suddenly went white in the face. She broke out in a cold sweat and reached for her mother’s hand. Her mother was horrified when she felt Barbro’s hand, which was as cold as ice.

When they entered the hiding place, the same terrors overcame Barbro that she had experienced so many times in her dreams. She found it hard to breathe and panic spread through her body. When they went into one of the smaller rooms, she suddenly stood still and brightened up a little. Barbro looked at the wall in front of her and exclaimed, “Look, the pictures of the film stars are still there!” The pictures of the movie stars that Anne had clipped and affixed to the wall, which Barbro saw at that moment, made her feel happy, almost as if she had come home.

Her mother stared at the blank wall and couldn’t understand this at all. “What pictures? The wall is bare?” Barbro looked again and she saw that this was true. The wall was bare! Her mother was so confounded that she felt driven to ask one of the guides whether there had been pictures on the wall at one time. “Oh yes,” the guide replied, “they had only been taken down temporarily to be mounted under glass so that they wouldn’t be destroyed or stolen.” Barbro’s mother didn’t know what to say. “How in the world could you find your way here first of all, then insist that the steps outside were different and then see the pictures on the wall when they weren’t there?"

In her adolescent years these past life memories would begin to fade away and she took up a semblance of a normal life, working with the Swedish Police Service, but this would change when she was in her forties and had an aversion to one of the police officers she worked with. She did not know why at first, until she came to the conclusion that he was a reincarnated Nazi guard, after which all of her past life memories came flooding back. It was with this resurgence of memories that she decided to write a book on her experiences titled And the Wolves Howled.

In addition to all of this inexplicable knowledge, Barbro also demonstrated many strange similarities to Anne Frank throughout her life. For instance, from a young age she had been terrified of men in uniform, and also had an aversion to eating beans, something Frank had mostly subsisted on during her time in hiding. She also would not take showers, only baths, and she also mostly loathed having her hair cut, something that was shaved off when arriving at a concentration camp. She was also a child writing prodigy, like Frank, and was even noticed to have similar facial features to Frank. Coincidence or not? Perhaps strangest of all is that in later years Barbro would meet Frank’s last living relative, her cousin, Buddy Elias, who after talking in depth with her was convinced that she was indeed the reincarnation of Anne Frank. In the end we are left with a case of the reincarnation of a very famous individual that has all of the hallmarks of such cases, including access to knowledge one should not known, phobias from a past life, and other similarities to the deceased person in question. Is Barbro Karlen really the reincarnation of Anne Frank, or is there some other explanation? Whatever the case may be, it has gone on to become one of the more remarkable cases on past lives.

https://mysteriousuniverse.org/2021/11/the-strange-case-of-the-reincarnation-of-anne-frank/

[lovelytony22]

The Bible doesn't support reincarnation. And please, don't make a mistake and tell me Elijah was reincarnated as John the Baptist.

"And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment." (Hebrews 9:27)

[gini]

7-Year-Old Says He Was in 9/11 Plane Crash - The Ghost Inside My Child (S1 Flashback) -JVBSiyVElbU

[wondering]

lovelytony22, It is my understanding that one of the Vatican Councils (Trent, perhaps), altered the bible as they wished, removing references to reincarnation in favor of one life, heaven, hell afterward. You can only avoid hell by following our teachings. It makes sense to me. I'm sorry I can't give references that support this off the top of my head and I don't want to take time to look for it. (also, I'm too lazy) If it interests you, it could be a place to start to determine whether the bible really never did support reincarnation. Just a thought in response to your statement. I think so many bible passages can be endlessly interpreted in more than one way.

[Casey Claar]

It becomes clearer, doesn't it?... that we are never talking about a thing unto itself, but rather the ways in which it is possible to experience a thing unto itself.

There is dualism.
There is qualified non-dualism.
There is absolute non-dualism. — ALL AT ONCE

It is maybe only when we take all these ( ideas ) in together that we have the clearest, fullest picture.

I was helped to understand this some time ago, so share it now.

[Gomba]

If you die you can do many things besidess reincarnating. You can stay as ghost on earth, which doesnt seem such a fun choice. You can create your own dream like world with your imagination and hang out there, you can even cocreate things like that with other people (just like we cocreate this reality).
You can incarnate wherever whenever to an experience that is compatible with you. I mean even if you want to incarnate next life as a 9D arcturian that is not goint to work out if you are not a frequency match for that experience.
Seemingly almost everyone is reincarnating in a chronological order, but this is most likely due to the people's concept that you have to move in to that drection. while if you wanted you could reincarnate back to ancient egypt or 5 million years ago, or into the future.
You can also relive the same life again, yes really and people who feel like they messed up do this trying to correct their mistake in that life.

The fact that you can reincarnate back and forth in time means that you that there might be your own incarnations out there alive as of now. I never really heard actual stories when this happened but still possible.

Now, many notices that people usually reincarnate on earth again and again, and nowhere else from the billions of planets around the univere.
Seemingly people below a certain vibration cant get out the planet, they get stopped by the Van Allen belts. I dont know how is this possible to be honest because while disincarnated time and space do not really exist (they are just mental constructs) so you could teleport out, or go back in time when there were no Van Allen bands. But maybe people just try to move conventionally by the Van Allen bands, get stuck and conclude that there is no way out, they might not even know they cna teleport etc..
I'd appreciate some comments on this!

Also, the above is the reason why I think calling Earth a "Prison planet" is a reasonable perspective, they want to get out but they cant.

[Casey Claar]

Now, many notices that people usually reincarnate on earth again and again, and nowhere else from the billions of planets around the universe.

Seemingly people below a certain vibration cant get out the planet, they get stopped by the Van Allen belts. I dont know how is this possible to be honest because while disincarnated time and space do not really exist (they are just mental constructs) so you could teleport out, or go back in time when there were no Van Allen bands. But maybe people just try to move conventionally by the Van Allen bands, get stuck and conclude that there is no way out, they might not even know they cna teleport etc..
I'd appreciate some comments on this!

Also, the above is the reason why I think calling Earth a "Prison planet" is a reasonable perspective, they want to get out but they cant.

Hi, Gomba

What I would say is this.

3D-Earth is a curriculum. It is not a sentence, in that we come here simply to serve time, there is a curriculum to fulfill. Some might even say "frequency keys to pick up". Regardless of anything out there in space, such as the Van Allen radiation belt ( which can be thought of as a door our acquired frequency-keys unlock ), 3D-Earth is a free-will duality system and 3D, in particular, is a juncture at which each of us invokes our choice and decides upon the polarity through which we will graduate. It is not something that can just be said, the chosen polarity has to be enacted to a degree enough to make the proverbial grade. So, getting out of here, if we choose to look at it like this has everything to do with ourself, our own choice and ACTUALLY enacting it. And less, or,...only secondarily to do with what lay out there in space. We really do have to learn to reel the attention in. We, our very own self is at the helm of it all, at the helm of absolutely everything. Any other focus but this puts us smack dab in the middle of an illusion. A perpetual hamster wheel.

Now this said,

Where we leave off in an incarnation, is where we ( ourself, a being in creation ) are left at. I don't know many souls ( souls, not personas ) who would leave any fractal of themselves unfinished, unrefined. For one, potential damage to other-selves could be invoked through that unfinished fractal. And, two, what does not grow suffers entropy. What does not e-volve, de-volves. What soul would actively choose or allow it? Incarnation, in all accuracy is all at once *not linear. Yes it is true an incarnational self, between lives, ie: in the life-between-life area, can pop around and experience itself as/through any point within its total potential evolution. But only an incarnational self who enacts the evolution in real time, in "physical space" actualizes and becomes that evolution, that evolved/enlightened being.

There is a very large difference between trying on an idea for size,
and being the one who actually brought it into being.

[Gomba]

Thank you for your reply!

I agree with all above and I hold the same perspective. With "I think calling Earth a "Prison planet" is a reasonable perspective, they want to get out but they cant." I was refering to the fact that multiple perspectives can be true at the same time.
So for example one can argue that a person literally confined in prison is not actually confined at all, he could just walk trough the wall or teleport out. Well, this is true because the walls being hard and impenetrable are just self imposed limitations, mental constructs. It can be done but its extremely hard to pull off.

Otherwise, If we dont accept the fact that multiple perspectives are true at the same time then not even a 5D perspective can cut it, a 7D might have different views, but then again at 8D there might be another way to look at it. But still if only one perspective is true then we have to trace it back to source itself, but at that point the perspective would be something ridiculously reductionist and inexplicable like "the one is" .

[Casey Claar]

Thank you for your reply!

I agree with all above and I hold the same perspective. With "I think calling Earth a "Prison planet" is a reasonable perspective, they want to get out but they cant." I was refering to the fact that multiple perspectives can be true at the same time.
So for example one can argue that a person literally confined in prison is not actually confined at all, he could just walk trough the wall or teleport out. Well, this is true because the walls being hard and impenetrable are just self imposed limitations, mental constructs. It can be done but its extremely hard to pull off.

Otherwise, If we dont accept the fact that multiple perspectives are true at the same time then not even a 5D perspective can cut it, a 7D might have different views, but then again at 8D there might be another way to look at it. But still if only one perspective is true then we have to trace it back to source itself, but at that point the perspective would be something ridiculously reductionist and inexplicable like "the one is" .

Hello again, Gomba.

Yes even though not all perspectives are true, all perspectives are valid in that they indeed can be experienced ( real as real can be ). Thought is what the world is made of. If we hold a particular thought, crystalize it in our being, we in a sense freeze that idea in time within ourselves and begin seeing life here through its lens. Any of us can form a lens, a perspective, such as being imprisoned, but by doing this we have just imprisoned ourselves. There is a very large difference between fixing the attention on reality itself and the way it works, on the one hand, and forming a perspective, or feeling a particular way about something on the other. Not many of us are yet venturing out beyond the latter. This said,— I sense there is some truth in the idea that a fraction of those here on Earth were sent ( "sentenced" if anyone insists, lol ) due to poor behavior elsewhere, and even a fraction who of their own accord felt they were escaping payment for that poor behavior by coming. To those of us this applies to I would point out only one thing: the cause is so much more freeing than a perpetual focus on the effect/result. If anyone, anywhere is landing on anything save the self as an answer, this one is not yet arriving at anything real. There is only one key that fits a perceived locked door and this is the self. — stories to the contrary free no-one.