Not Quite Farewell

[Whiskey_Mystic]

From the Thread: Anti-Trump Riots Erupt in the Bay Area



I grew up there, it's always been brain dead liberals living in the Bay, total waste of flesh.

I just checked back into Avalon after years away. Comments like the one above are why I no longer frequent the site. It is easier to put labels on people and objectify them than to try to understand their perspective. But it is disappointing. Avalon was once a place where people from different backgrounds and with different points of view could come together in pursuit of common goals and to enrich each other. It is no longer that place. Attitudes like the one above appear to be dominant now.

I clearly do not belong here at Avalon any longer, so I will bid you all a final adieu. I wish you all the best in your search for truth. Thank you Bill for your wonderful contributions to the greater body of knowledge.

May all beings be free from suffering. May all beings be at peace.

[DbDraad]

Peace is not a one way street. You can't have it on one sided terms....I'm new here and don't post much, but go well and I hope you find peace.

[crosby]

Whiskey_Mystic, I wish you could stay. There are few of us old timers left, you will be missed very much. Please take care and perhaps pop in every once in awhile too visit.
warmest regards,
crosby (formerly corson)

[greybeard]

From the Thread: Anti-Trump Riots Erupt in the Bay Area



I grew up there, it's always been brain dead liberals living in the Bay, total waste of flesh.

I just checked back into Avalon after years away. Comments like the one above are why I no longer frequent the site. It is easier to put labels on people and objectify them than to try to understand their perspective. But it is disappointing. Avalon was once a place where people from different backgrounds and with different points of view could come together in pursuit of common goals and to enrich each other. It is no longer that place. Attitudes like the one above appear to be dominant now.

I clearly do not belong here at Avalon any longer, so I will bid you all a final adieu. I wish you all the best in your search for truth. Thank you Bill for your wonderful contributions to the greater body of knowledge.

May all beings be free from suffering. May all beings be at peace.

Unfortunately I agree, at least in part, and there have several time I have felt like leaving--however the spiritual section is alive and well and that keeps me here.
Its the blanket statements that get me--one or two of a certain --any persuasion, give the rest of that group a bad name and in the eyes of the poster--they are all bad guys---come on!!!!

Not a great deal of evidence, many assumptions. as in "Everybody knows this is true" kind of attitude.

I wish you well Whiskey Mystic
Chris.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Thank you, Chris and Crosby. I will indeed miss our talks.

[Hervé]

From the Thread: Anti-Trump Riots Erupt in the Bay Area



I grew up there, it's always been brain dead liberals living in the Bay, total waste of flesh.

I just checked back into Avalon after years away. Comments like the one above are why I no longer frequent the site. It is easier to put labels on people and objectify them than to try to understand their perspective. But it is disappointing. Avalon was once a place where people from different backgrounds and with different points of view could come together in pursuit of common goals and to enrich each other. It is no longer that place. Attitudes like the one above appear to be dominant now.

I clearly do not belong here at Avalon any longer, so I will bid you all a final adieu. I wish you all the best in your search for truth. Thank you Bill for your wonderful contributions to the greater body of knowledge.

May all beings be free from suffering. May all beings be at peace.

Did you send us a report (/!\)?

Did you try to curb such tendency directly on thread? Via PMs asking the author to edit the offending post?

Quitting won't alleviate the issue, just help it go unchecked and spread wider.

[Star Tsar]

Whiskey Mystic please do not let one user change your perception of Avalon. I too have concerns about that users posts...

[greybeard]

Quite a few try to balance the extremes--point to middle ground--however its a members right to post what they feel needs to be posted and thats ok as long as its within the forum guidelines.

Chris

[Enola]

Avalon can be a bit tabloid/populist at times. And sometimes I think it would be nice if there could be fewer threads in more depth instead of so many. I don't have the time to check up on hardly any of them.

[petra]

Another case of cherry picking out the crap and ignoring all of the good stuff... =/

Comments like those, I just ignore...

Farewell I suppose, but hopefully not forever

[Sueanne47]

Yes there is a lot of GOOD INFORMATION here on Avalon! its good to speak to others who give a different perspective on your own views. Sometimes we do get hurt by people's comments, Bill told me ~ "Do like a man did 2000 years ago and turn the other cheek" but if you feel like you can stand up for yourself..by all means do so! :muscle:

Good luck anyway Whiskey_Mystic. :flower:

[DNA]

From the Thread: Anti-Trump Riots Erupt in the Bay Area



I grew up there, it's always been brain dead liberals living in the Bay, total waste of flesh.

I just checked back into Avalon after years away. Comments like the one above are why I no longer frequent the site. It is easier to put labels on people and objectify them than to try to understand their perspective. But it is disappointing. Avalon was once a place where people from different backgrounds and with different points of view could come together in pursuit of common goals and to enrich each other. It is no longer that place. Attitudes like the one above appear to be dominant now.

I clearly do not belong here at Avalon any longer, so I will bid you all a final adieu. I wish you all the best in your search for truth. Thank you Bill for your wonderful contributions to the greater body of knowledge.

May all beings be free from suffering. May all beings be at peace.


I've long been a fan of your posts Whiskey, short to the point and I dare say eloquent.
I feel the root complaint of your post is a political one, and though you do not out and say it, I sense your personal political sensibilities have been offended in some manner.


All I can say is, if you are a Hillary supporter don't let the door hit you in the a$$ on your way out.


I kid I kid, I swear to God I'm kidding. :)

Dude I'm totally kidding. :moony: :love:
I understand what you are going through, dude I used to defend Obama right after he was elected, and argue with folks and on and on and on.
It takes some time and some work to realize party politics are a lie and the main stream media have been playing us for fools. Never before has it been so apparent as in the last election.
Trump seems to most of us to not be an entrenched tool of this mechanism and as such not the lesser of two evils, but a gift from God in so much that he may buck the system.
Some folks here take it for granted that everyone here has gone through a process and as such has come to these same sentiments. Some folks feel they can say things as Althena did in the quote you provided, and we should not allow our selves to make generalizations such as this considering we all ripen and or shake our chains of mental bondage at differing points in time.


Much love to you Whiskey.
Please Don't Go


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-l5FyA3pgo
w-l5FyA3pgo


We all need to stay

[Cardillac]

@Whisky-Mystic

if you choose to leave this forum have you found another forum/something better where you can voice your opinions?-

please let us know-

please continue to be well-

Larry

[Sierra]

I think the issue was a comment relegating an entire subset of people to the garbage bin with a blanket statement. Whether or not Althena made the comment based on election passions is unknown, and his raison d'etre is irrelevant anyhoo.

Whether election related or not, such comments are not acceptable on Avalon, and we should have done something sooner.

Apologies...

[mojo]

There are comments made about faith and other hot button issues that came up before. Fortunately our forum allowed people to say things and yet other members may not have agreed. It reminds me of the new attack on fake news. TPTB want to stifle the alternative news media by saying it's fake. Hopefully we as a people can continue to allow opposite views expressed and share our differing view.

[Maunagarjana]

The "truther community" is full of right wingers, especially in the US. Not just on this forum, but on every conspiracy related forum. Most of these folks used to listen to Rush Slimebaugh and Fox Snooze and then they discovered Alex Jones and David Icke and think they "woke up", not realizing that they are still carrying around much of their programming and biases from before. This has become abundantly clear to me. Right now we have people rooting for our new authoritarian white nationalist coddling President-Elect because Alex Jones told them he is anti-NWO. You can leave this forum, but it's unlikely that you'll be able to escape this state of affairs. It's gonna take a lot of whiskey and mysticism to insulate yourself from that.

[Sueanne47]

I was very offended at Turiya making this statement directed at me for doubting Mr Trump (I didnt report it ~ just let it ride) :

"Having much empathy for the cry babies that are showing themselves... even on this forum. Resisting change, makes growing up a difficult & painful process...having to take on one's responsibility..that's why the bird remain's in its cage with the door wide open."

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?90590-TRANSITIONED-into-Trump&p=1113796&viewfull=1#post1113796

[ThePythonicCow]

I have been reactive to the liberal side, marching with feminists in Equal Rights Ammendment (ERA) parades in the 1970's. My now ex-wife, a reliable Bay Area liberal herself, married me in the 1980's, thinking I was a reliable liberal myself.

I have been reactive to the conservative side, listening to Rush Limbaugh and Fox News, and proudly supporting the Bush Presidencies, in the 1990's (when the makings of my subsequent divorce first started taking shape.)

However I continued to get along just fine with all my in-laws, who were almost to a person Bay Area liberals, like my wife of the time. The key was joining them in quite genuine amusement at my right-wing nut job views and tin-foil-hat conspiracies.

In other words, allow, with genuine good humor, others their views, even including their ridicule of your views ... for there but for the grace of God and Rush go you.

Our reactions on these emotional, partisan, levels are genuine reactions ... but these reactions are a weak foundation for judging others, or even for judging ones self.

[Sueanne47]

I think its a mistake to put all our faith and trust into one person, when further down the line we find we were wrong about that person! and cause ourselves great embarrassment. :o We have to be careful when people are being smeared as well, lies can make the public not take notice of the whistleblower...when it is 'real' what they are saying.

[Eram]

Whiskey_Mystic, I hope that you can reconsider.
Your perspective is appreciated by many here, I'm sure of that and I HAVE been missing your posts.

[ceetee9]

I seldom comment on these types of farewell posts as I have mixed feelings about them. However, I feel compelled to say something this time.

I feel your frustration and angst Whiskey_Mystic and have considered walking away at times myself. Perhaps not for the same reasons that you do, but because I feel like the quality of many of the discussions—at least the ones that I have read—have degraded over the last 2 to 3 years. That's not to say there aren't any good posts here anymore, but just that there aren't near as many, IMO. There are still several very intelligent people here who post some very interesting and stimulating information and ideas.

But I think the most important thing is to not give up and walk away. None of us can ever hope to change anything for the better if we give up when the going gets tough or when things don't head in the direction we'd like them to. As you stated:


It is easier to put labels on people and objectify them than to try to understand their perspective. But it is disappointing.
Absolutely it is disappointing and extremely frustrating, but that's what we humans do all the time. We love to put labels on people and things so we don't have to think and evaluate each one individually. We label someone or group or something with a “good” label (i.e., label we relate to something we like) if we like them or it and we label someone or group or something with a “bad” label if we dislike them or it. This enables us to quickly and easily accept or dismiss the labelled person, group or thing with little to no thought process.

We just had an election where over 60 million people labelled a candidate as “good” and 60 million others labelled a candidate as “bad.” And I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of those 120+ million people didn't do any real investigation into, or give any real thought about, either candidate. They simply voted for the candidate of their political party/label of choice or the “lesser of the two evils” in their mind—which they, no doubt, derived from other labels. And I'm confident that we will continue this charade for many elections to come because, again, as you stated, it's easier to label people and objectify them than to put in the requisite time and effort to evaluate them in an attempt to understand them and what they truly stand for.


Avalon was once a place where people from different backgrounds and with different points of view could come together in pursuit of common goals and to enrich each other. It is no longer that place.I think it still is even if it isn't as diversified and rich as it once was. If more open minded thinkers stuck around and continued to contribute to the forum, I believe it can be again and even better.

Whatever you decide WM, I wish you well and please continue the good fight wherever you go.

[Sierra]

The "truther community" is full of right wingers, especially in the US. Not just on this forum, but on every conspiracy related forum. Most of these folks used to listen to Rush Slimebaugh and Fox Snooze and then they discovered Alex Jones and David Icke and think they "woke up", not realizing that they are still carrying around much of their programming and biases from before. This has become abundantly clear to me. Right now we have people rooting for our new authoritarian white nationalist coddling President-Elect because Alex Jones told them he is anti-NWO. You can leave this forum, but it's unlikely that you'll be able to escape this state of affairs. It's gonna take a lot of whiskey and mysticism to insulate yourself from that.

Hic! :party: :beer: :party:

Maunagarjana, I had no idea the truther community was right wing. Now all the ah... the... why the ah... what it is watchamacallit that is overwhelming Avalon... makes... sense.

[3(C)+me]

I have been on this forum for a long time. I come and go. Sometimes I post and sometimes I just want to lurk read here and there. When I first started waking up this place kept me sane. If you don't think I haven't been pissed off, mad as hell, tired of certain types of threads, tired of a certain poster you are so wrong.

But I have to remember some people are at certain stages and they need to work them out and I want to let them even if it drives me bonkers and it does.

Hell, I even had to apologize to someone because well, I was not very considerate with my response, let's put it that way.
If I am not happy with what I see going on, I just step away.
But this is a good forum, I get most of my information here and a few other places. Bill has gone through hell to keep this thing going, he is not perfect, he is a human being with flaws, Thank god he doesn't just say "to hell with it I am done".
And the Mod's can you imagine the things they have to deal with DAILY.
Sometimes I read a post, like this morning, someone posted, thank you and it just hit the spot. I love it when that happens.

Note: I see you live in the Bay area. This is what I have noticed. Their are people who love to hate on: San Fran, La, and the west coast in general. I have heard it all over the years just don't get me started on California earthquakes. Some people will be gleefully happy if it happens. How can you define 40 million people in a few choice words. Some people do. really.

[Mike]

When I first started here, I made it my business to really rip into these threads. They embarrassed me terribly.

Know what else I relentlessly laid into? People who "retired" several times and kept coming back. And also ..members who would get overly touchy about being reprimanded my a moderator, and would quit in an obnoxious huff.

I mean, how f#cking silly!....

....and then, eventually, I did all those things too....

I havent started a farewell thread yet, but dont put it past me. Intellectually I can rip it to bits...but on an emotional level, I sorta get it.

So, i'll bite:
Hey Mystic, youre a cool dude. I seem to recall us butting heads here n there, but I always admired you. Good luck with whatever direction you take.

[Anchor]

Or... you could do what I do and only wander in here when you feel called to do so.

If you do really leave, then so long, and travel well.

Anchor..

[indigopete]

From the Thread: Anti-Trump Riots Erupt in the Bay Area



I grew up there, it's always been brain dead liberals living in the Bay, total waste of flesh.

I just checked back into Avalon after years away. Comments like the one above are why I no longer frequent the site....I clearly do not belong here at Avalon any longer

You clearly do, since you expressed your view just as robustly as the "waste of flesh" contributor and therefore qualify ;)

Stick around !

[ghostrider]

These days people are just plain mean and full of hate ,the world needs perspective ... Wish you well ...

[TargeT]

These days people are just plain mean and full of hate ,the world needs perspective ... Wish you well ...

Perspective, yes... but who's perspective?

This thread is an excellent example of two perspectives meeting, the OP was so affected by it that he decided to vacate himself from a place he used to be interested in.

(very telling to the power of perspective & the power of those who can manage it effectively).

[ghostrider]

im talking about all the people who are quick to put people down, toss them in groups, and make rude comments just because they see things differently, if they would step back look in the mirror and ask am i part of the problem or part of the solution, maybe i should hold my lip if i dont have anything nice to say , all i am doing is spreading hate, division, and a cold hearted mindset, i have a roof over my head food on the table and good health if someone wants a different view , i should remember people are free in a free country, and i will get back what i give out, so i want good i must sow good to reap good , the law of causality... a reaction for every action , positive or negative the individual makes the choice on which polarity ...

[Ewan]

According the political compass I am Libertarian Left, (just a square or two away from Ghandi apparently), anyone from the diametrically opposed quadrant want a fight?

Economic Left/Right: -4.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.79

https://www.politicalcompass.org/

[Heart-2-Heart]

Whiskey-magic ..don't be a whiskey sour ..leave if you feel you have to ..but leave the door open..:heart:

[Eram]

According the political compass I am Libertarian Left, (just a square or two away from Ghandi apparently), anyone from the diametrically opposed quadrant want a fight?

Economic Left/Right: -4.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.79

https://www.politicalcompass.org/

Nice test.
I'm even more to the left and libertarian side of the spectrum it seems.
Economic Left/Right: -5.63
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.74

[Sierra]

These days people are just plain mean and full of hate ,the world needs perspective ... Wish you well ...

Perspective, yes... but who's perspective?

This thread is an excellent example of two perspectives meeting, the OP was so affected by it that he decided to vacate himself from a place he used to be interested in.

(very telling to the power of perspective & the power of those who can manage it effectively).

Mod hat on.

Target, I'm glad you are so happy with the election results, but to say, "...very telling to the power of perspective & the power of those who can manage it effectively.", is a polarizing and useless thing to say, good only to cause harm.

This is a reminder that an alt-right victory at the polls doesn't suddenly give you license to ditch community standards, and say whatever you feel like.

Pull back on your reins, please.

[TargeT]

These days people are just plain mean and full of hate ,the world needs perspective ... Wish you well ...

Perspective, yes... but who's perspective?

This thread is an excellent example of two perspectives meeting, the OP was so affected by it that he decided to vacate himself from a place he used to be interested in.

(very telling to the power of perspective & the power of those who can manage it effectively).

Mod hat on.

Target, I'm glad you are so happy with the election results, but to say, "...very telling to the power of perspective & the power of those who can manage it effectively.", is a polarizing and useless thing to say, good only to cause harm.

This is a reminder that an alt-right victory at the polls doesn't suddenly give you license to ditch community standards, and say whatever you feel like.

Pull back on your reins, please.

how is it polarizing, it's talking about 1 thing; perspective manipulation, that has little to do with elections, mostly to do with cultural "norms", media we consume and the region we live in... maybe mostly the region we live in.

I've been circling around this perspective management idea a lot lately, mostly trying to teach it to my kids (trying to cut short the "taken for granted" attitude that easily happens to us western civilization types).


I'm not a 1 topic guy & who cares who won, it was certainly the most interesting cycle I've seen. Hopefully the massive media gaffs will get people to do more personal research.





According the political compass I am Libertarian Left, (just a square or two away from Ghandi apparently), anyone from the diametrically opposed quadrant want a fight?

Economic Left/Right: -4.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.79

https://www.politicalcompass.org/

Nice test.
I'm even more to the left and libertarian side of the spectrum it seems.
Economic Left/Right: -5.63
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.74

Don't worry!

The Libertarian right will save us from the libertarian left! (that's kind of diametrically opposed)


Your Political Compass
Economic Left/Right: 2.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.72


Apparently I'm close to a radical libertarian? 0_o

[sunpaw]

Hello Whiskey_Mystic.

I thank you for your explanation, it brought up an issue I noticed myself. And sometimes not knowing what actually to do about it.
So reading now 'such comments' are sometimes rather unnoticed/unreported helps.

I also tried 'answering' - however, sometimes I really really wonder if its worth it. Since I read/write compassionate (which gets me also worked up at times).
Which I neither want nor like, and since I can't change that at the moment: I tend not to read even.

And wondering then how 'others' deal with it - seeing posting...

So thank you for your words, reading responses helped a bit. (However otherwise still same old. ;) sigh).

I wish you well.

Of course I'd like you to stay, like-minded. But I also understand there shall be other reasons than me and others wish you wouldn't leave.
So thank you very much for your gift, the very topic. All my best wishes for you.
Stay safe and enjoy :sun:

And thank's for the compass thingy.
I am
Economic Left/Right: -2.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.92

However some questions I could have answered either way depending on context I had in mind vs 'bigger picture' (as in: how would/do people misinterpret such a question. As its also not only an assumption but seen in practice. And which might as well contributed in general having the topic - and taking the survey - in the first place.. )

[Johnny]

These days people are just plain mean and full of hate ,the world needs perspective ... Wish you well ...

Perspective, yes... but who's perspective?

This thread is an excellent example of two perspectives meeting, the OP was so affected by it that he decided to vacate himself from a place he used to be interested in.

(very telling to the power of perspective & the power of those who can manage it effectively).

Mod hat on.

Target, I'm glad you are so happy with the election results, but to say, "...very telling to the power of perspective & the power of those who can manage it effectively.", is a polarizing and useless thing to say, good only to cause harm.

This is a reminder that an alt-right victory at the polls doesn't suddenly give you license to ditch community standards, and say whatever you feel like.

Pull back on your reins, please.

I was going to ask you: " how the heck do you get that to be an polarizing ?? " but I see Target came before me. He (Target) say :


This thread is an excellent example of two perspectives meeting and then he explain by:


(very telling to the power of perspective & the power of those who can manage it effectively).

I see nothing wrong in this.

Johnny :)

:focus:

[kirolak]

Fun test. . .I'm even more left & libertarian than you are :):blackwidow:

[sunpaw]

(very telling to the power of perspective & the power of those who can manage it effectively).

I personally didn't see that as a comment regarding election - it is a known concept, and applies not only to politics. It is neutral - since the very concept can be used 'for good', for good outcomes and so forth.
Which for example applies to self healing powers, or stay healthy too.

And I personally am irritated that seemingly not even known concepts are allowed to mention, additionally to seemingly favoring 'wings'.
When it came to Obama I didn't see such 'be careful', nor for some comments regarding Hillary. Which weren't only 'political' but also 'off'.
(which I don't include just yet. If wanted I provide the links)

And which I personally see as reasons the very topic (again) is here in the first place.

To outline further: regarding mod hat on on a concept (I personally even apply to the recent election, on any election even) - I might as well express that now (let know) Its wrong. In general, and the more on Avalon.
Reason for 'now': I rather express it now than seeing such gets favored and protected, and not expressing myself for the wrong reasons.

I didn't get that 'mod hat on' comment - but just because I didn't write that yet. And I, just for myself like to know: whats going on, where does the forum and the mods stand on this particular issue. I post my 'request' here.
And my main problem is: this is just wrong. And I prefer to know than to assume or tiptoe.

Again, thank you for the very comment. I just took the opportunity to get clarification due.

Thank you in advance.

[Deega]

Hey Whiskey-Mystic, I wish you stay!, if not!, then, may your next experience in another Forum be a wonderful experience, a fruitful one, may the best be with you in your next journey!

[DNA]

These days people are just plain mean and full of hate ,the world needs perspective ... Wish you well ...

Perspective, yes... but who's perspective?

This thread is an excellent example of two perspectives meeting, the OP was so affected by it that he decided to vacate himself from a place he used to be interested in.

(very telling to the power of perspective & the power of those who can manage it effectively).

Mod hat on.

Target, I'm glad you are so happy with the election results, but to say, "...very telling to the power of perspective & the power of those who can manage it effectively.", is a polarizing and useless thing to say, good only to cause harm.


Sierra I don't understand your problem here. My take from this is that Target is talking about the media and how people here on this forum are so obviously manipulated by it.
If you are a Hillary apologist then you would be one of the individuals the main stream media has affected, for there is no way in hell anyone who is well informed would want that monster leading a lemonade stand much less a country.
The last two months with the Wikileaks revelations and the undeniable fact that Hillary Clinton helped to destabilize countries in the middle east and have their regimes overthrown to the good of no one living in those countries.
Does not the voice of end these ceaseless wars have no place in the conversation?
I'm actually appalled you would wish to censor Target, which strangely enough is what the main stream media is attempting to do to alternative media sites.
If anyone needs to pull back on their reigns here in my opinion it is your self.
In my opinion your statement here is reactionary to previous conversations you've had with Target on other threads that having nothing to do with this thread.
Target's statement was kind of poetic, yours was kind of draconian.

[TargeT]

Her perception colored my words in a way that I did not intend (in a way that I can't even really understand) enough that she made a public statement on it.


I see it as another great example of the power of perception & how different it can be from individual to individual.


I'm sure in her mind she thought that she was doing exactly the right thing based on her perception.

Were I a more organized person I'd write up some formal paper on perception, reality and such... but I imagine there's plenty of good work out there on it already (haven't looked yet, plan to!)

[greybeard]

Her perception colored my words in a way that I did not intend (in a way that I can't even really understand) enough that she made a public statement on it.


I see it as another great example of the power of perception & how different it can be from individual to individual.


I'm sure in her mind she thought that she was doing exactly the right thing based on her perception.

Were I a more organized person I'd write up some formal paper on perception, reality and such... but I imagine there's plenty of good work out there on it already (haven't looked yet, plan to!)

I like Sierra and most time agree with her take on things.
Not this time---I think she unfortunately miss read what TargeT was saying and one misunderstanding led to another.
Unfortunate but there you go thats life.

Good book is "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" --enough said

Chris

[Sunny-side-up]

Sorry to see you go Whiskey_Mystic. I always appreciated your views and input.

Avalon is still that great site of wisdom and truth seekers, things like politics get people carried away a bit ha :(

Think about staying and keeping up the standards Whiskey_Mystic.

If you do go stay cool and report back any real items of worth you might deem worthy :sun:

[Bill Ryan]

From the Thread: Anti-Trump Riots Erupt in the Bay Area



I grew up there, it's always been brain dead liberals living in the Bay, total waste of flesh.

I just checked back into Avalon after years away. Comments like the one above are why I no longer frequent the site. It is easier to put labels on people and objectify them than to try to understand their perspective. But it is disappointing. Avalon was once a place where people from different backgrounds and with different points of view could come together in pursuit of common goals and to enrich each other. It is no longer that place. Attitudes like the one above appear to be dominant now.

I clearly do not belong here at Avalon any longer, so I will bid you all a final adieu. I wish you all the best in your search for truth. Thank you Bill for your wonderful contributions to the greater body of knowledge.

May all beings be free from suffering. May all beings be at peace.


Whiskey_Mystic, please do not let one user change your perception of Avalon. I too have concerns about that user's posts...

All the moderators have those same concerns, and have had for a while. This may be a good opportunity to clarify that.

Moderation is an inexact science (or, maybe it's an art!) -- and we usually, if we can, try to guide things along with a fairly non-interfering hand. That's kind of our default, as it were.

What's important to state is that just because we seem to let certain posts and threads stand, that doesn't necessarily mean we endorse them one bit.

I count Whiskey_Mystic as a personal friend (I met him back in 2011, and greatly enjoyed his highest-quality company). And yes, he would be missed.

Althena's crass, crude, unaware, arrogant, verbally violent, and entirely unintelligent remark about people in the Bay Area does NOT represent the forum or its membership. (I wonder how many Avalon members live there! :) )

And it certainly doesn't represent my view.

Althena lives in Patagonia, nearly 7,000 miles away from several million people all of whom he's he's castigating, and does not know. Although he says he grew up in the Bay Area, that was several decades ago, and broad-brush remarks like that need very great care, caution, and caveats. None of those were evident.

This is simple bigotry.

There is a problem here, but it's one that's really about a very few people screaming loudly and attracting a lot of attention in a large group of well over 1000 people. Althena -- do spend a moment searching -- has usually always just copied and pasted text (and copied screeching headlines, too) from other blogs and forums. He has rarely let us know any personal opinions which he has taken the time to craft with his own words.

So, this thread has been very useful. The moderators unanimously agree that Althena should go. This has been discussed between us before, but (see above), we never took any action.

We wish him well, but he has now been unsubscribed: not for any one transgression, but for a prevalent and unrelenting attitude that is NOT very helpful to make this world a better place.

When it comes to the point that the forum itself is identified by a returning, longstanding member as being in some way represented or typified by someone like him, then that reaches a tipping point. It means something is wrong.

What I WOULD request -- Whiskey, I'm addressing you directly here as a friend, and asking you personally -- is that you might take a few moments to chip in and add your own remedial balance to all this. These are important times -- critical, maybe -- and there are a lot of strong feelings swirling round.

All that can be understood. But how we express ourselves, even when upset and passionate, is always the measure of the person. We welcome anyone here, no matter what their political views, who can share their worldview in a careful* and intelligent* way.
* And -- a note to every one of us, maybe, self included. 'Careful' and 'intelligent' are two words that we might all take a moment to bookmark... and refer to often.

[Rocky_Shorz]

I myself think elections have been a hot spot for discussions since Avalon began...

After elections things calm down, but as long as crazy videos are being created, we have members who bring them forward.

There was a reason you came back after several years so before you stroll off, you might want to meditate with the TV fear porn shut off.

Those loading the lips on CNN and MSNBC are fueling a civil war in the US.

Heavy mind control being broadcast that gives me a headache every time I stop for a few minutes to see what is going on...

I come to Avalon daily and really think you searched for a reason to say goodbye...

There are always plenty of posts, blocking a vulgar poster makes it go away...

So, I'm not saying goodbye...

But will pour a Johny Walker Blue and toast until we meet again...


Avalon is a think-tank people go to for knowledge on taboo discussions, we look at both sides of every situation. Trump Depends on Drudge VT and Zero for real news...

We're do you think they go to find what is breaking?

It's Us...

Things are about to change quick, and we might be the place where a crazy world makes sense...

That is why we are gathered, to discuss the real story behind events that affect real people.

We have no agenda, thoughts and discussions change with the wind....

So remember, even the obnoxious ones have gathered for a reason, all sides, all minds...

Stay away from anything political, it's better for your health...

Cheers!!!

You want to start an important discussion, a smart doctor once said, for those who can't afford healthcare give them all cures, save the fancy hospitals and drugs for those who can afford them.

Make that the New Romney care...

[RunningDeer]

As many have expressed on this thread, their only intent is to make a simple point when they post. Or in one recent case, a new member began a thread with a simple mountain analogy. I saw it as one way to gauge others' interests, their perspective, and level of understanding. Within a couple of posts the thread went south. There was a rush to judgement rather than as Whiskey Mystic pointed out “try to understand their perspective".

To my way of thinking, that only shuts people down. People lurk. They don’t bother to check in. They unsubscribe. We all lose.

That’s also how I’ve interpreted Whiskey_Mystic farewell comments:

It is easier to put labels on people
objectify them
than to try to understand their perspective.

[Flash]

thank you Bill - he had been literally gross with me. In my views, he was not worth any response, because his were not that creative/thought of of course the views that were his own, not copies from other blogs/forums (contrarily to Target where I took time to speak with him because of his intelligence and good will). And if he reads this, assuming I was French speaking because I am from Quebec would not have made an a ss of him and me, as he said it did because I presumed he spoke Spanish since he lives in Argentina. He would not have made an a ss of him and me because assuming people from Quebec are French speaking is a right assumption (7 millions of them located in the same province), and I myself have French as my mothertongue.

Please Whisky Mistyc come back -



From the Thread: Anti-Trump Riots Erupt in the Bay Area



I grew up there, it's always been brain dead liberals living in the Bay, total waste of flesh.

I just checked back into Avalon after years away. Comments like the one above are why I no longer frequent the site. It is easier to put labels on people and objectify them than to try to understand their perspective. But it is disappointing. Avalon was once a place where people from different backgrounds and with different points of view could come together in pursuit of common goals and to enrich each other. It is no longer that place. Attitudes like the one above appear to be dominant now.

I clearly do not belong here at Avalon any longer, so I will bid you all a final adieu. I wish you all the best in your search for truth. Thank you Bill for your wonderful contributions to the greater body of knowledge.

May all beings be free from suffering. May all beings be at peace.


Whiskey_Mystic, please do not let one user change your perception of Avalon. I too have concerns about that user's posts...

All the moderators have those same concerns, and have had for a while. This may be a good opportunity to clarify that.

Moderation is an inexact science (or, maybe it's an art!) -- and we usually, if we can, try to guide things along with a fairly non-interfering hand. That's kind of our default, as it were.

What's important to state is that just because we seem to let certain posts and threads stand, that doesn't necessarily mean we endorse them one bit.

I count Whiskey_Mystic as a personal friend (I met him back in 2011, and greatly enjoyed his highest-quality company). And yes, he would be missed.

Althena's crass, crude, unaware, arrogant, verbally violent, and entirely unintelligent remark about people in the Bay Area does NOT represent the forum or its membership. (I wonder how many Avalon members live there! :) )

And it certainly doesn't represent my view.

Althena lives in Patagonia, nearly 7,000 miles away from several million people all of whom he's he's castigating, and does not know. Although he says he grew up in the Bay Area, that was several decades ago, and broad-brush remarks like that need very great care, caution, and caveats. None of those were evident.

This is simple bigotry.

There is a problem here, but it's one that's really about a very few people screaming loudly and attracting a lot of attention in a large group of well over 1000 people. Althena -- do spend a moment searching -- has usually always just copied and pasted test (and copied screeching headlines, too) from other blogs and forums. He has rarely let us know any personal opinions which he has taken the time to craft with his own words.

So, this thread has been very useful. The moderators unanimously agree that Althena should go. This has been discussed between us before, but (see above), we never took any action.

We wish him well, but he has now been unsubscribed: not for any one transgression, but for a prevalent and unrelenting attitude that is NOT very helpful to make this world a better place.

When it comes to the point that the forum itself is identified by a returning, longstanding member as being in some way represented or typified by someone like him, then that reaches a tipping point. It means something is wrong.

What I WOULD request -- Whiskey, I'm addressing you directly here as a friend, and asking you personally -- is that you might take a few moments to chip in and add your own remedial balance to all this. These are important times -- critical, maybe -- and there are a lot of strong feelings swirling round.

All that can be understood. But how we express ourselves, even when upset and passionate, is always the measure of the person. We welcome anyone here, no matter what their political views, who can share their worldview in a careful* and intelligent* way.
* And -- a note to every one of us, maybe, self included. 'Careful' and 'intelligent' are two words that we might might all take a moment to bookmark... and refer to often.

[Sierra]

Her perception colored my words in a way that I did not intend (in a way that I can't even really understand) enough that she made a public statement on it.


I see it as another great example of the power of perception & how different it can be from individual to individual.


I'm sure in her mind she thought that she was doing exactly the right thing based on her perception.

Were I a more organized person I'd write up some formal paper on perception, reality and such... but I imagine there's plenty of good work out there on it already (haven't looked yet, plan to!)

I like Sierra and most time agree with her take on things.
Not this time---I think she unfortunately miss read what TargeT was saying and one misunderstanding led to another.
Unfortunate but there you go thats life.

Good book is "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" --enough said

Chris

Greybeard, I trust, and respect your perceptions. :)

Apologies.

DNA: Hell no, I'm no Clinton apologist. I did not vote for her either. IMO both candidates were a set up to foment divisiveness, and polarize the population to attack one another, instead of the PTB. We're pretty much an ignorant loosh factory right now.

[Wind]

It's sometimes even quite important to disagree about things, since it can be healthy. That being said, it should be done without being too blunt or by being mean towards others. Words can be powerful tools, we should always think twice what to say or to post. Sometimes we can of course be emotional about some things and need a moment or two to cool down and think things through. It's natural...

I think this is a great community and I have lots of respect for it. It's always sad to see long standing members go...
Disagreements don't have to cause division amongst ourselves.

All the best.

[greybeard]

As many have expressed on this thread, their only intent is to make a simple point when they post. Or in one recent case, a new member began a thread with a simple mountain analogy. I saw it as one way to gage others interest, their perspective, and level of understanding. Within a couple of posts the thread went south. There was a rush to judgement rather than as Whiskey Mystic pointed out “try to understand their perspective".

To my way of thinking, that only shuts people down. People lurk. They don’t bother to check in. They unsubscribe. We all lose.

That’s also how I’ve interpreted Whiskey_Mystic farewell comments:

It is easier to put labels on people
objectify them
than to try to understand their perspective.



With respect Paula--when you have just joined a forum I would think it would be a good idea to interact with others fist, to test the water on the many threads to choose from.
First post is a thread quoting from a book you have written or have an interest in is not a particularly good idea.
When you are putting yourself up as an expert in a subject you should know better than to start off in a new forum in this manner.
She had every chance to start anew as I suggested--then she compared the reaction here unfavorably to other forums she had joined--oh well.
How many forums would that be I wonder.

Thats my opinion and Im not saying my take is correct--no doubt she had good intentions but shot herself in the foot.

There have been quite a few gurus of late who did not last but they were give a fair crack of the whip so to speak.

Chris

[RunningDeer]

With respect Paula--when you have just joined a forum I would think it would be a good idea to interact with others fist, to test the water on the many threads to choose from.
First post is a thread quoting from a book you have written or have an interest in is not a particularly good idea.
When you are putting yourself up as an expert in a subject you should know better than to start off in a new forum in this manner.
She had every chance to start anew as I suggested--then she compared the reaction here unfavorably to other forums she had joined--oh well.
How many forums would that be I wonder.

Thats my opinion and Im not saying my take is correct--no doubt she had good intentions but shot herself in the foot.

There have been quite a few gurus of late who did not last but they were give a fair crack of the whip so to speak.

Chris


When you are putting yourself up as an expert in a subject you should know better than to start off in a new forum in this manner.

With respect, Chris, that member joined on June 3, 2016. Her first thread was October 18, 2016. How long must one be a member to put forth ideas without be accused of claiming to be an expert?

The title of the thread included the word excerpt not expert. In no way did I read or did she infer she was an expert. From her work and the other partners, I’d say Avalon lost some interesting perspectives.


no doubt she had good intentions but shot herself in the foot.

Maybe so or maybe she felt cornered or ganged up on or felt unwelcomed? We’ll never know.

Paula

[greybeard]

I apologize for being in error Paula but how many posts were made before starting the thread?
However Quote from the book 'Advanced Teachings' by Mrs. Endall Beall being the title of the thread suggests some expert knowledge of the subject.
The lady is still a member and free to post whenever she so wishes.

With love Chris

[3(C)+me]

New members it can be tricky cuz you can get pounced on right out of the gate. They can make mistakes and the older members who have seen "experts" come upon the stage suggesting all kinds of insider info ask me anything come and gone. The new expert requesting questions so he can educate the masses only to learn he is just trying to get over and have a laugh.

Not saying suggested poster above is such. I doubt very much that is the case.

But with all the weird and extreme emotions running around the collective and some of us are kind of world weary, we can be very cynical at times and trigger happy. I know I have been myself.




* And -- a note to every one of us, maybe, self included. 'Careful' and 'intelligent' are two words that we might might all take a moment to bookmark... and refer to often.


Noted.

[RunningDeer]

I apologize for being in error Paula but how many posts were made before starting the thread?
However Quote from the book 'Advanced Teachings' by Mrs. Endall Beall being the title of the thread suggests some expert knowledge of the subject.
The lady is still a member and free to post whenever she so wishes.

With love Chris

The lady is still a member and free to post whenever she so wishes.

No, not really. She never got a fair chance to express her perspective. Unlike yourself and other strong folks, there are many bright, sensitive, caring people that don’t have the inclination to put themselves out there. They’re a quick study when the welcome mat is pulled out from under them.

Mrs. Endall Beall is a person that cared enough to go beyond the naysayers and post a bit more and then left. That’s unfortunate. That’s what’ll happen time and again until we stop with this rationale of why it’s okay to treat people that way.

We’re better than that.

Stepping away. I have no desire to do the intellectual shuffle, round and round and round.

A quote from one of her posts:




“…Who am I? I am nobody as I have explained in my written work. I am just one person sharing insights I’ve had of doing their own internal digging for a while, I am doing so because my spirit feels the push to do so as it is why I am here. My husband prompted me last year to share my insights because they are insights he thought should be shared in collaboration with the work he’s producing so I have put them out to the universe and let them fall where they may. My motivation to share is because someone out there may find inspiration in what I share; I do realize not everyone will…”

[Rocky_Shorz]

I think most people joining have been lurking for years, but might have one question left unanswered.

They Join, get accepted...

Then don't know how or where to ask their question...

Many move right into the different conversations and know everyone.

Then we have the stumble on that want to join the minute they find us...

Trouble always blows in and out from the 2nd group...

[Sueanne47]

Its great to be kind! ~

yZQN1dYK_gM

[Bluegreen]

The thought occurred to me very early on with the poster in question, Oh, here is a fear porner out to rile people up. Is there an agenda? Working for someone? I wasn't bothered, just kept it in mind.

Because I really don't have a problem with it. I can always tune it out. Much so-called 'fear porn' is actually 'valuable information' that 95% of the population, through no fault of their own, remain completely in the dark about because they have been programmed and conditioned since birth by the conspiricists themselves to dismiss out of hand. There are actually not that many websites on the worldwide web that offer this information to the public and I wish every one of them the best of luck despite the petty internal squabbles they all seem to get distracted with from time to time. We provide a public service.

My goal is to see the 99% prevail in my lifetime. I see this site and my participation as part of that effort.

[7alon]

From the Thread: Anti-Trump Riots Erupt in the Bay Area



I grew up there, it's always been brain dead liberals living in the Bay, total waste of flesh.

I just checked back into Avalon after years away. Comments like the one above are why I no longer frequent the site. It is easier to put labels on people and objectify them than to try to understand their perspective. But it is disappointing. Avalon was once a place where people from different backgrounds and with different points of view could come together in pursuit of common goals and to enrich each other. It is no longer that place. Attitudes like the one above appear to be dominant now.

I clearly do not belong here at Avalon any longer, so I will bid you all a final adieu. I wish you all the best in your search for truth. Thank you Bill for your wonderful contributions to the greater body of knowledge.

May all beings be free from suffering. May all beings be at peace.

While it is disheartening to witness crude posts, I believe most people on this forum provide constructive and friendly discussion. I think you belong in this community. Do not think that the questionable things that have been said/posted are not being seen/recognised by Bill, the moderators or the rest of the community. Leniency goes hand in hand with freedom of speech, but rest assured, I can attest to Bill and the moderators' ability to know when they are giving too much leniency and ability to explain how and why they've dealt with the situation.

[Eram]

.

Althena's crass, crude, unaware, arrogant, verbally violent, and entirely unintelligent remark about people in the Bay Area does NOT represent the forum or its membership. (I wonder how many Avalon members live there! :) )


So, this thread has been very useful. The moderators unanimously agree that Althena should go. This has been discussed between us before, but (see above), we never took any action.



Hi Bill,

Perhaps I'm missing some vital information here, but it seems to me that Althena has now been unsubscribed for only one remark that was out of line. A remark that many of us could have made in a moment of carelessness.

What happened to a slap on the wrist and some field trip experience?

I'm no expert on Althena's behavior on this forum, but I know he was active and I can't remember other posts where he was disrespectful to posters or people in general.

I'm a bit puzzled here...

[Tangri]

From the Thread: Anti-Trump Riots Erupt in the Bay Area



I grew up there, it's always been brain dead liberals living in the Bay, total waste of flesh.

I just checked back into Avalon after years away. Comments like the one above are why I no longer frequent the site. It is easier to put labels on people and objectify them than to try to understand their perspective. But it is disappointing. Avalon was once a place where people from different backgrounds and with different points of view could come together in pursuit of common goals and to enrich each other. It is no longer that place. Attitudes like the one above appear to be dominant now.

I clearly do not belong here at Avalon any longer, so I will bid you all a final adieu. I wish you all the best in your search for truth. Thank you Bill for your wonderful contributions to the greater body of knowledge.

May all beings be free from suffering. May all beings be at peace.

You were not alone there for a long time.

In my life I met a lot less intelligent people but rarely met an AU- artificial unintelligent, I thought he was one of them and stay away of him. He have caused lost of few post which could ignited a fire.
My last poster on my wall is raised up with similar reason.

"Having Intellectual-Conceptual, Integrative and Quantitative Abilities is a big handicap, servants and masters with same instinct, do not like this skill is surfing around."

[Bill Ryan]

Hi Bill,

Perhaps I'm missing some vital information here, but it seems to me that Althena has now been unsubscribed for only one remark that was out of line. A remark that many of us could have made in a moment of carelessness.



Thanks for the excellent question. The real issue was a prevalent attitude that was simplistic, brazen and (almost always) simply copied-and-pasted from other blogs, along with often hysterical, dramatic headlines. That's not the best way to conduct intelligent debate.

Moreover, it's not an example we want to see set, or (passively) to set ourselves by seeming to condone it.

The forum is not Facebook or Twitter, or a series of cheap-and-crude YouTube comments. It's a discussion forum dedicated and committed to facilitating learning on a wide range of fronts. We want members and guests to come here, and feel


Better informed, and more knowledgeable
Inspired and motivated (where possible/applicable)
Not quite so alone (as many feel they are)
Encouraged to see the entire human race as a vast spectrum of usually good people, not always well-informed and often manipulated, living lives in sometimes difficult (or even appalling) conditions, and usually all striving for the same goals


In contrast (@ Whiskey, please read this! :star: ), I'd like to highlight an exemplary exchange, from another thread. The forum at its finest. It starts here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?94442-will-Trump-give-presidential-pardons-to-Snowden-Assange-and-Manning&p=1112844&viewfull=1#post1112844), and is a dialog between bsbray (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/member.php?24475-bsbray) and Satori (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/member.php?720-Satori):

bsbray:



What is your experience in law again, Satori?
I'm just asking since, like I said, I have actually studied Constitutional law, and I have no idea where you are coming up with this stuff.
Satori:



I wondered when you would ask me that. I graduated from the University of San Francisco School of Law in 1980. I have been a trial lawyer for over 36 years. I am licensed in several jurisdictions, including the United States Supreme Court. I have handled numerous cases arising under the US Constitution. (I am also a student of Constitutional history.)
Here's one case along the lines of the challenge you put to me: Carlesi v. New York, 233 U.S. 51 (1914) There the state prosecuted a violation of the states forgery laws after the defendant was pardoned or received clemency for violation of the analogous federal law.
I've said my piece on this subject and I am done. I wish you well.
bsbray:



Good. I'm actually very happy to see that and I'm happy to have been wrong about it.
What I was taught was basically that state courts had no sovereignty in the face of federal court decisions, and this does seem to be the popular perception. I'm sure you remember when the federal courts struck down state challenges to Obamacare by ridiculously claiming that the states had no authority to challenge the law. This is the kind of thing I'm talking about. You have no chance in a joke system like that.
I'm aware that the original intent of the Constitution was along the lines of what you're arguing and I'm glad that there are people who are still keeping this tradition alive.

Cheers. :beer:
Satori:



Cheers to you too!

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Oh, now you done it. Wall of text headed straight for us!

There seems to be a lot of confusion over my reasons for wanting to leave and now I will test your endurance with a long and boring post all about it. Since I am lazy, I am posting my email to Bill rather than retype my points. It's rambling and incoherent, but somewhere in there are my thoughts.


Hi Bill,

Your post is persuasive. I will give it some thought.

My reasons for wanting to leave weren't really about the election. You knew I was frustrated with the community before. And yes, that's partly my own ego and arrogance. My own reactivity is an indicator of where I am still wounded and need to grow and heal. Stones to flowers.

I grew weary because it seemed like I was always having the same conversation on Avalon. As a serious student of of Taoism with a dedicated decades-old practice, I kept running into young "know-it-alls" for lack of a better term. The best way I can describe it is to try to talk with people who stand on the beach arguing about what's over the horizon when you consistently do the very difficult and personal work of sailing out there to have a look for yourself.

The other thing is the "Us vs. Them" duality that pervades the conspiracy communities. Many find meaning for their lives by succumbing to what I call "Luke Skywalker Syndrome." It's similar to what Chris Hedges was describing in "War is a Force that Gives Us Meaning".

My tribe, a gathering of extraordinary souls gathered around my Master (whom you have glimpsed in the "out there"), does not fight the good fight. We dissolve the fight. To engage it confrontationally is to enhance it. Fighting against it feeds that power behind it. We don't judge any aspect as good or bad or better than another. There is only the Tao. All else is illusion.

So then the final straw- I was a bit raw from the outbreak of emboldened hate when I logged into Avalon and I encountered a wall of static. For example, I encountered a bunch of nonsense about how all the protests are paid for by Soros. Maybe in a few cases he did, I don't know. But what I do know is that hundreds of people I know personally are not paid by anyone and I've watched thousands organize through social media and campus meetings. They are not paid. Most of them despised Hillary and would probably be protesting if she had won, too.

Then I ran into the post that I quoted and didn't see it challenged. It just felt like Avalon was not a place that would improve my quality of life nor benefit from my input. Since I hadn't really been contributing anyway, I felt like it was time to dust off my sandals.

Some of the responses were clearly of the "Don't let the door hit you" variety. Why not, they don't know me from Agamotto. As for the supportive ones, I was kinda shocked anyone remembered me.

As for my own politics, I am holding the energy for the manifestation of a new progressive party as neither party now represents the people. I understand why people voted for Trump. For many, it's the same reasons many of us donated money to Bernie. But I think anyone who saw Trump as an answer to "the system" should see by his cabinet picks that what will happen now is a final and full entrenchment of the American oligarchy. And you won't hear me say that HRC would have been any better. Maybe probably anyway.

Thanks for reading all this. I needed to get it out. I'll give it some thought. I am very aware that my stating publicly that Avalon is this or that bad thing might hurt your feelings. And for that I apologize. I just had to speak my heart at that time.

Best Regards,

(name removed)

In addition, It wasn't just the one post that pushed me toward the door. That thread had lots of gloating and divisive comments about the whiners and the crybabies. The entire thread disgusted me. Look, people are frightened. Terrified. Children are afraid their parents will be taken from them. People are afraid that they will be beaten, rounded up, and imprisoned for practicing their religion. People are afraid they will lose their health care and social security. People are afraid of war. I have friends in the Ukraine who are seriously concerned for their lives and loved ones. It does not matter if you agree with their reasons. Our brothers and sisters are afraid.

This is a time for compassion. For love. This is not a time for mean-spirited "In your face!" victory dances. If I even have to point that out, then maybe this isn't the right place for me anymore. That is what I was saying.

Now I know some will think that the proper course would be to post my argument in that thread instead of taking my toys and going home. But the reason I took such a long break was because it seemed like making posts like that was all I was doing on Avalon. I even tried to host a thread about nonviolent communication (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?45205-How-to-be-the-Greatest-Forum-on-the-Entire-Internet).

Goddess, this post is an awful rambling mess, but there it is.

Dammit. When I sent Bill a request to retire my profile, I was afraid he would talk me out of it. I hate it when people post goodbye threads. Especially when they don't even leave. If I still decide to leave, I won't do it again as I will have already stated my Ninety-five Theses.

You are all right. There is much value in the Avalon community. I should have just waited a few days and maybe talked to Bill on the side. I apologize for the disruption, but I do think it also has value. I know that I can be a hothead. It's part of my charm. I am a Taoist by practice, but a hothead by nature. I also know that some people find me arrogant. That's because I am arrogant. They're not wrong. That's also part of my charm. And so I thank you all for being patient.

So, I am going to stay for now. I think that this thread has been useful to the community, to my surprise. Avalon, please take a pause and ask yourself what kind of community you want to be. What light will you shine forth?

p.s.s. Let's discuss the politics in another thread, mmmkay?

[Sierra]

In addition, It wasn't just the one post that pushed me toward the door. That thread had lots of gloating and divisive comments about the whiners and the crybabies. The entire thread disgusted me. Look, people are frightened. Terrified. Children are afraid their parents will be taken from them. People are afraid that they will be beaten, rounded up, and imprisoned for practicing their religion. People are afraid they will lose their health care and social security. People are afraid of war. I have friends in the Ukraine who are seriously concerned for their lives and loved ones. It does not matter if you agree with their reasons. Our brothers and sisters are afraid.

This is a time for compassion. For love. This is not a time for mean-spirited "In your face!" victory dances. If I even have to point that out, then maybe this isn't the right place for me anymore. That is what I was saying.

You soothe my heart, Whiskey. Thank you.

[Sueanne47]

We need more love on Avalon!

I'm glad you are staying Whiskey..

34614

[lake]

Well I am very much shocked....I find it difficult to read that which I just have .......but I find it more unconscionable to see those who would and have signed their being to it?

[Chester]

man... I sure do like Whiskey_Mystic... that post #62 is such an excellent, honest good post. Thanks and I really hope you stay.

[Deega]

Hey Whiskey_Mystic, to change our mind on things is very important, it's a mental health high at times, you did the right thing to stay, you make a courageous choice, great of you!

[lake]

Hey Whiskey_Mystic, to change our mind on things is very important, it's a mental health high at times, you did the right thing to stay, you make a courageous choice, great of you!

Really....No really.......You consider a person who wasn't personally physically harmed but ....well....was.......actually NOT HARMED AT ALL....to be courageous?

I went through the last 60 posts by the criminal already convicted and yes I did see a pattern....He/she had one 4 post disagreement with Flash. Then He/she THANKED Flash.

I could Look at ANY of YOU and find posts which may be considered as harm towards others???

Althena did not need to be banned....nor did C02....nor Jim Rich....nor Sweety.......plus many others.......I do not comprehend that which the forum is trying to create?

Unless.... .......the pattern I saw is of meaning and the reason for the banning!

[Bill Ryan]

I do not comprehend that which the forum is trying to create?



It seems that maybe you don't. :)

I can also answer Whiskey here, at the same time (most wonderful post of yours, btw :star: ) -- by referring to what I wrote (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?94588-A-Final-Farewell&p=1115253&viewfull=1#post1115253) a few hours ago:




The forum is not Facebook or Twitter, or a series of cheap-and-crude YouTube comments. It's a discussion forum dedicated and committed to facilitating learning on a wide range of fronts. We want members and guests to come here, and feel


Better informed, and more knowledgeable
Inspired and motivated (where possible/applicable)
Not quite so alone (as many feel they are)
Encouraged to see the entire human race as a vast spectrum of usually good people, not always well-informed and often manipulated, living lives in sometimes difficult (or even appalling) conditions, and usually all striving for the same goals.

[lake]

I do not comprehend that which the forum is trying to create?

It seems that maybe you don't. :)


Sorry Bill but you seem to have left the most salient point from my post out....the NEXT LINE....

Unless.... .......the pattern I saw is of meaning and the reason for the banning!

and yes I do realize that this is your forum and therefore your 'front room'!
:sherlock:

[Eram]

This is a time for compassion. For love. This is not a time for mean-spirited "In your face!" victory dances. If I even have to point that out, then maybe this isn't the right place for me anymore. That is what I was saying.


For me, this is the key sentence of both your disappointment with this forum as well as perhaps your lack of appreciation of what's going on in the world at this moment (and how people with different background and education are dealing with it).

Yes, "in your face victory dances" are out of order in every scenario, ... unless Jim Carry plays the lead.

Yet, there is an almost intuitive recognition by also the less educated part of society, that we are nearing a culmination point and that in order to get to the right side of this, is not possible to reach with love and compassion.

Evil does not always allow us these tools to be the end of our repertoire.

It is time to choose and make a stance.
Every writing on the wall is pointing to that.



I really hope you will become an active poster here again Whiskey.
Your posts are thought provoking and I'm a real sucker for that.

[Debra]

Thank you Whiskey :) this thread has been a gift in disguise. On a number of levels. And your level of member is highly cherished.

P.S. I love that you know yourself to be arrogant (*smiling*) It's extra nice to get a big glimpse of your study of humanity and holding ground for a healthy evolution.

Keep setting the bar higher. That's what we need.

[Bill Ryan]

I do not comprehend that which the forum is trying to create?

It seems that maybe you don't. :)


Sorry Bill but you seem to have left the most salient point from my post out....the NEXT LINE....

Unless.... .......the pattern I saw is of meaning and the reason for the banning!

This is off-topic here, but if you look at the Moderator Actions thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?78116-RECORD-of-MODERATOR-ACTIONS&p=1106167#post1106167), where reasons are given (or linked to) for any unsubscriptions that are made -- and that's not very often! -- you should find out all you need to know, if you want to know.

If, after reading the explanations, you don't understand why the members you listed were unsubscribed, I doubt if there's anything more that anyone can do to explain further.

:focus:

[Bill Ryan]

This is a time for compassion. For love. This is not a time for mean-spirited "In your face!" victory dances. If I even have to point that out, then maybe this isn't the right place for me anymore. That is what I was saying.


For me, this is the key sentence of both your disappointment with this forum as well as perhaps your lack of appreciation of what's going on in the world at this moment (and how people with different background and education are dealing with it).

Yes, "in your face victory dances" are out of order in every scenario, ... unless Jim Carry plays the lead.

Yes. The other mods will confirm that a week or so ago I gently reminded the team NOT to get sucked into the positionality... which is so very easy to do. Everyone has their opinions, sometimes strong, sometimes well-informed, sometimes both. The mods, as individual personalities, are no exceptions.

But it was clear that this was a time of unification that was needed, not further division. Understanding and listening, not conflict. I asked the mods to please be conscious and set an example in anything they posted.

Although I never asked this of the forum members as well, we've all very much appreciated those who are seeking to do exactly the same thing.

:star:

[Eram]

Hey Whiskey_Mystic, to change our mind on things is very important, it's a mental health high at times, you did the right thing to stay, you make a courageous choice, great of you!

Really....No really.......You consider a person who wasn't personally physically harmed but ....well....was.......actually NOT HARMED AT ALL....to be courageous?

I went through the last 60 posts by the criminal already convicted and yes I did see a pattern....He/she had one 4 post disagreement with Flash. Then He/she THANKED Flash.

I could Look at ANY of YOU and find posts which may be considered as harm towards others???

Althena did not need to be banned....nor did C02....nor Jim Rich....nor Sweety.......plus many others.......I do not comprehend that which the forum is trying to create?

Unless.... .......the pattern I saw is of meaning and the reason for the banning!

I also took the time to skim a few pages of Althenas posts now and though I agree with you on facts, I can't fault the mods team here.
If they want to up the quality of this forum, who are we to criticize?

People have been unsubscribed for those reasons in the hundreds I guess and after consideration, it seems to me that Althena has just managed to escape final scrutiny so far.

[ThePythonicCow]

Althena did not need to be banned....nor did C02....nor Jim Rich....nor Sweety.......plus many others.......I do not comprehend that which the forum is trying to create?
I agree ... that you do not comprehend :).

This forum is not like a public highway, on which any legally licensed vehicle, driven by a legally licensed and insured driver, in a safe and legal manner, is welcome to travel.

We endeavor to share our quite varied skills, energies, talents, and experiences toward a constellation of higher purposes, for the betterment and awareness of ourselves, our fellow humans and other life, embodied or not, in this corner of the galaxy. Those who rather too consistently distract from those endeavours may be asked to step aside, at least until such time as they show a change of heart and habit that will likely more often than not support our endeavors.

[Cidersomerset]

For many, it's the same reasons many of us donated money to Bernie.

I Have been posting a lot of AH Goodmans vids on the Hillary thread he was a strong
Bernie fan and donated and eventually voted for Jill Stein . He reviewed the wiki leaks
running up to the election and is carrying on from a realistic social American point of
view and is very good imo....

H. A. Goodman
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDB5XReUyyqt-FTNdkzFN-A/videos


Good luck mate .............( You just made me look up Taoism ) ...LOL

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoism

[lake]

I can agree with your post Paul....may I ask why you also left out the most important part of my post?

The last line?





Edit from Bill: Enough, please. You're derailing the thread. Do take this up with anyone you like by PM -- many thanks.

:focus:

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Yet, there is an almost intuitive recognition by also the less educated part of society, that we are nearing a culmination point and that in order to get to the right side of this, is not possible to reach with love and compassion.

Evil does not always allow us these tools to be the end of our repertoire.



I respectfully disagree. Evil and Good are merely concepts. They do not exist outside of the consciousness that creates them. The Sun shines upon the Earth. This is neither good nor evil. A cheetah kills and eats a gazelle. This is neither good nor evil. An earthquake decimates a village. This is neither good nor evil.

When one performs an exorcism or clearing of "negative" spirits, the least productive method is by labeling an entity as "evil" and confronting it as such. The effortless way is to approach it without judgement and understand it. Transform it as in a Tonglen type of practice. Those of you who have studied Aikido are probably familiar with this. Ice to water. Water to gas. The entire universe is enfolded within you. Dissolve it there.

I am no pacifist. I am a pragmatist. I also know that at the end of these lives it does not matter who shot you or why. It doesn't matter that your village was burned to the ground. It is extremely important and all-encompassing right up until that last moment of life. And then it is not. The only thing that matters then is who you have become as a result of the choices that you have made. In a thousand thousand lifetimes, the details are inconsequential.

My Teacher has said to me that we notice the alien invasion with the same amount of alarm that we notice that we are almost out of milk. We notice and we respond, but without getting caught up in the drama. We respond without engaging and getting caught up in the conflict. Because to oppose the other is to give it energy. To focus on it is to enhance it.

Remember how casually Neo combated the Smith at the end of The Matrix once he had awakened to his true nature? Intent of purpose, but without malice.

When the Buddha sat under the Bodhi Tree, an army of demons arose to oppose Him. They threw rocks at Him. The rocks transformed into flowers and fell at His feet.

Enough of my fortune cookie talk. Dr. King wants to say something.



The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral,
begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy.
Instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it.
Through violence you may murder the liar,
but you cannot murder the lie, nor establish the truth.
Through violence you may murder the hater,
but you do not murder hate.
In fact, violence merely increases hate.
So it goes.
Returning violence for violence multiplies violence,
adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness:
only light can do that.
Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that.

-Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

[greybeard]

Its a question of balance--thankfully its not my responsibility to decide as to whether a post is beyond the acceptable or not.
For me respect for others is important, though sometimes I fail in my intention most often thats more to do with content rather than poster.
Respect has also to be earned.

I dont think it realistic in the world of opposites to expect to have only love--only the positive.
The saying "That which brings you pleasure brings you pain" is fairly true. Two sides of the same coin--just depends which side we focus on.
Is the glass half empty or half full sums it up.

Its admirable to want to up the level of posts obviously but if you notice the threads that get the most attention you would probably see that is is the dramatic, headline, grabbers, that get the most attention and are the most divisive
Human nature is evolving though.

Chris

[TargeT]

Look, people are frightened. Terrified. Children are afraid their parents will be taken from them. People are afraid that they will be beaten, rounded up, and imprisoned for practicing their religion. People are afraid they will lose their health care and social security. People are afraid of war. I have friends in the Ukraine who are seriously concerned for their lives and loved ones. It does not matter if you agree with their reasons. Our brothers and sisters are afraid.

But why is this the case?

This is the best and most powerful year for perspective manipulation I've ever seen.

We have people who are genuinely terrified, who take to the streets to protest (and can get a bit carried away) over this fear.

But what IS this fear? we have zero contextual and historical examples to back this fear up, it's based on postulation and proselytization; yet is so powerful that it has people taking actual action in against what they fear may happen. (The fears may come true in the future, I happen to not think they will not).

The things I'm hearing today SHOULD have been said about Bush 2, but weren't (from a historical point of view I think they should have been said... hind sight is 20/20 etc..).

Now is the time for strong division, there has to be a reason for it; nothing like this is organic,,, not at THIS scale. THIS SHOULD BE THE FOCUS! <- (IMO)

Look at the energy taken up on the forum lately with these topics (I definitely contributed to it).

I think we are seeing the play out of a complex end game that is going exactly according to plan, I've been in this community a while and never seen sparks fly quite like this (there were a few times... haha). Even this forum is seemingly drawing lines along the current political divide.

I am deeply sorry that this has effected you as much as it has Whiskey, I'll put you up for a vacation in the tropics if you buy the plane ticket... blow some steam off, come somewhere that none of this SH*T matters... I've got a spare room ;)

I'm partial to Jameson myself, but I'm sure we could find some common ground ;)

I put myself on a P.A. Vacation not too long ago, maybe that's in order. Either way, Love your contributions and I hope you hang around.


We respond without engaging and getting caught up in the conflict. Because to oppose the other is to give it energy. To focus on it is to enhance it.


we are seeing the opposite of this currently, all around.

If that's Taoism, then I must be an unintentional practitioner (or at least strive to be).

[Innocent Warrior]

Can't see how calling out a fellow member is enriching. Amazing how cruel humans can be once they decide someone has done wrong in some way. Humiliation...nope you'll get no good-byes from me.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Hey look, some smart people! *points*

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?94534-Left-and-Right-It-seems-so-obvious-

[Bill Ryan]

Can't see how calling out a fellow member is enriching. Amazing how cruel humans can be once they decide someone has done wrong in some way. Humiliation...nope you'll get no good-byes from me.

A gentle clarification: Whiskey didn't call out the fellow member (Althena). He called out his set of opinions, based on what he said. That's not quite the same thing.

It was me who made the decision to unsubscribe him, and then publicly explain why.

We have to 'call someone out' when we unsubscribe them, or else it'd be like East Germany in the 60s (or Stalin's Russia) when people would just silently disappear in the middle of the night. The Moderator Actions thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?78116-RECORD-of-MODERATOR-ACTIONS) was created to provide that transparency. But to be transparent, we have to name names, and provide explanations for our decisions.

It's a hard balance to get right, as you know from your own experience as a moderator (a time which we all valued and appreciated greatly! :heart: ). When we decide that someone no longer properly belongs in this community -- taking everything into account, which we always try to do if we can -- then it's no minor thing to stress that we really DO wish them well. And, we do.

[DeDukshyn]

From my perspective, if it's any worth, I personally began avoiding Althena's threads and even some posts; I personally just felt that the majority of the content would just be "liberal bashing" or "democrat bashing" because that always seemed to be a main point in nearly every thread and most posts. Many, many posts by respected members with gentle reminders about how the two party system is a farce and the sides are not relevant fell on completely deaf ears. Blatantly and consistently marketing one's political alignment is far beneath the expectations of proper use of Avalon's platform in my opinion. Althena, for a year, refused to consider that maybe his attitude was exactly the expectation in reaction that the rulers have, so they can keep doing their thing, despite many opportunities for careful consideration of this.

The somewhat sad part about the way Althena posted was that if he'd just left out his consistent and incredibly slanted "opinions" in his posts, often the topic and remainder of the content was appropriate. Then again, the flip side of that is he was using acceptable stories / topics, to interject slanted political "opinions" (often blatant generalized attacks against certain groups of people).

It has been exactly the same ever since I read the first of his posts. This clearly was not a decision of a single post, but a single post has to be the straw that breaks the camel's back. It was the right decision, in my opinion; without regard to consideration of Whiskey's complaint, or "the post" in general.

My 2 cents. :)

[Innocent Warrior]

Can't see how calling out a fellow member is enriching. Amazing how cruel humans can be once they decide someone has done wrong in some way. Humiliation...nope you'll get no good-byes from me.

A gentle clarification: Whiskey didn't call out the fellow member (Althena). He called out his set of opinions, based on what he said. That's not quite the same thing.

It was me who made the decision to unsubscribe him, and then publicly explain why.

We have to 'call someone out' when we unsubscribe them, or else it'd be like East Germany in the 60s (or Stalin's Russia) when people would just silently disappear in the middle of the night. The Moderator Actions thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?78116-RECORD-of-MODERATOR-ACTIONS) was created to provide that transparency. But to be transparent, we have to name names, and provide explanations for our decisions.

It's a hard balance to get right, as you know from your own experience as a moderator (a time which we all valued and appreciated greatly! :heart: ). When we decide that someone no longer properly belongs in this community -- taking everything into account, which we always try to do if we can -- then it's no minor thing to stress that we really DO wish them well. And, we do.

I didn't know he was unsubscribed and was referring to the quote in the OP of this thread. Perhaps I'm the only one who has a problem with that, probably, it's making an example of Althena AND his opinions, mentioning the opinions alone would have sufficed.

I know how much care you put into all the decisions you make, Bill, I have zero problem with yours and the mods' actions. Thank you for the clarification.

[Eram]

Yet, there is an almost intuitive recognition by also the less educated part of society, that we are nearing a culmination point and that in order to get to the right side of this, is not possible to reach with love and compassion.

Evil does not always allow us these tools to be the end of our repertoire.



I respectfully disagree. Evil and Good are merely concepts. They do not exist outside of the consciousness that creates them. The Sun shines upon the Earth. This is neither good nor evil. A cheetah kills and eats a gazelle. This is neither good nor evil. An earthquake decimates a village. This is neither good nor evil.

Well, then allow me to respectfully disagree right back at you. :)

Good and evil are human invented "subjective" words to describe the difference between all actions that promote evolution and devolution.

In your three examples to showcase the lack of good and evil, you forgot to implement the universally present force in all live to evolve toward a future with less friction toward all the laws that keep reality in place.

Every thought, emotion and action to promote this growth, could be named good and every thought, emotion and action to hinder this growth good be named evil.

In this context, a simple example to make this more visible is:
To love a child, to make it comfortable with the world(s) around it, to give it grounded self esteem, opportunity to ask questions, to learn and educate, to understand and apply and grow up to be a responsible caretaker of life is good in comparison a situation where you hinder this child in every way imaginable to achieve these goals, which you could label as evil.



When one performs an exorcism or clearing of "negative" spirits, the least productive method is by labeling an entity as "evil" and confronting it as such. The effortless way is to approach it without judgement and understand it. Transform it as in a Tonglen type of practice. Those of you who have studied Aikido are probably familiar with this. Ice to water. Water to gas. The entire universe is enfolded within you. Dissolve it there.

I am no pacifist. I am a pragmatist. I also know that at the end of these lives it does not matter who shot you or why. It doesn't matter that your village was burned to the ground. It is extremely important and all-encompassing right up until that last moment of life. And then it is not. The only thing that matters then is who you have become as a result of the choices that you have made. In a thousand thousand lifetimes, the details are inconsequential.

My Teacher has said to me that we notice the alien invasion with the same amount of alarm that we notice that we are almost out of milk. We notice and we respond, but without getting caught up in the drama. We respond without engaging and getting caught up in the conflict. Because to oppose the other is to give it energy. To focus on it is to enhance it.

Remember how casually Neo combated the Smith at the end of The Matrix once he had awakened to his true nature? Intent of purpose, but without malice.

When the Buddha sat under the Bodhi Tree, an army of demons arose to oppose Him. They threw rocks at Him. The rocks transformed into flowers and fell at His feet.

Yes, it's a very good thing to learn to train and balance the emotions to the point that whatever happens in and around us no longer effect us in ways that spin us out of control. This is what the beautiful story "where the wild things are" (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0386117/) is all about, to learn and balance the emotional forces within us.

By the way, I love your analogy of the sour milk and an alien invasion.
You used it before on this forum and it stuck with me ever since use it often when I try to explain this concept to others. :)

So to bring it back to the good and evil discussion.
Yes, things are coming to a culmination point and many many people sense it in one way or the other.

And to bring a famous quote to the table:
“Silence in the face of evil is itself evil.
Not to speak is to speak.
Not to act is to act.”
`Dietrich Bonhoeffer

It is time to rise up and make ourselves heard.
To overcome our laziness, passiveness and feelings of powerlessness and make a difference for the better in this world, in every way to fits us best.

[kemo]

I haven't read most of the posts in this thread, as I have effectively retired myself from this forum but fully agree with the OP. There is a group of highly vociferous and opinionated, and pretty right-wing, members of this forum who assume everyone agrees with their highly biased rants. The one mentioned by the OP is one but there are a bunch of others - you know who you are - who think anyone who doesn't agree with them is naive or stupid or a paid shill. I occasionally check any UFO/ET related stuff but never log in - this will be the one and only exception - and ignore the politically motivated ones - as I say mostly the usual suspects involved and all of a similar slant. I did take a peek a few weeks ago and practicaly all the latest threads were of that nature. Maybe I'm wrong but it has to be a reasonable assumption that the mods here and even the site owner agrees with the bigots. Now I'm sure there are many members who don't but here's the deal. For me - I did read one or two early posts in this thread on the lines of "don't throw out the baby with the bathwater" but this is missing the point. I don't wish to be a member of the same forum as some PA members. I'm damn glad I don't live next door to some of these guys or I'd have to move. That's me done - I had practically retired myself anyway and never posted much either. Bye. Don't anyone bother responding as I won't be reading it.

[greybeard]

I have thought about how I respond to posts that push my buttons.

First I try my best to be in the other shoes--very often I get their point of view and if I was them I would feel the same way.
However this may not be the way I feel at my core.
My response then is probably modified.

Fortunately I can separate the post from the poster--- I dont automatically thank or agree with all of a post just because a friend is the poster.
There have been times I have totally disagree with a post by a friend, or some one I have high regard for. this does not change my fondness or respect for the person.
Sometimes some one who normally pushes my buttons comes up with a brilliant post which I enjoy immensely, I may be drawn to comment or at least thank.

Life would be boring if we were all on the same page--in fact there would be little interaction on Avalon if we were of one mind.

Chris

Ps my core evaluation of a post is--does this raise or lower collective consciousness?

[Anchor]

We have to 'call someone out' when we unsubscribe them, or else it'd be like East Germany in the 60s (or Stalin's Russia) when people would just silently disappear in the middle of the night. The Moderator Actions thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?78116-RECORD-of-MODERATOR-ACTIONS) was created to provide that transparency. But to be transparent, we have to name names, and provide explanations for our decisions.

Yes - we have come a long way as a forum. There was a phase when we were a bit like that and it was against the forum policy to challenge the mods :)

Look how far we have come. Anyone here still remember the early days (I'm thinking 08, 09...) when we banned people ? We tried all sorts of stuff - the worst was "infraction" points and sliding scales of penalties - almost cringe-making to recall to be honest.

Happy to say, in hindsight we were not very good at it and the whole process just set off more forest fires. I know because I caused a few myself and it was just one reactionary mess after another. On top of that Avalon was for a while quite the target for trolls, wielding that ban-hammer was frequent hard work and you got to be the focus of a lot of harsh words for your troubles.

Then on top of all that, you end up being taken to task over both banning to many people and at the same time not banning enough - impossible.

I would not change that experience for anything, but sure would not want to repeat it, nor see it repeated.

This forum has achieve an excellent balance I think - a lot more mature and the transparency is great.

And you know what?

People still have problems with it.

.... and I think that is OK too - the day we all agree on everything is the day we don't really need to be alive on this planet and it will be time to go and get our lessons elsewhere.

[greybeard]

Yes Anchor those days are well remembered, however in hindsight it was part of the evolution of Avalon and I agree with everything you have posted here.
In truth I doubt if any other forum could have done any better,
If I drank I would toast Avalon--"Heres to the future. Wha's Like Us"

Chris

[Sueanne47]

I agree with Kemo, there are some people on the forum without love in their heart, who 'you can only get on with if you agree with them 100%'... if you disagree, you're likely to get a sarcastic backlash. I'm all for anyone to call me out if I'm wrong...I'm on a learning journey still. :nerd: After the election I foolishly posted "we have trump, brexit, now we need Marine le pen" (I didnt know at the time that Marine le Pen was a national front fascist leader! and I'm not that fond of trump either now that I found out about him).

We just have to hold our breath for 10 seconds before pressing the 'send' button!. :flower:

[RunningDeer]

I agree with Kemo, there are some people on the forum without love in their heart, who 'you can only get on with if you agree with them 100%'... if you disagree, you're likely to get a sarcastic backlash. I'm all for anyone to call me out if I'm wrong...I'm on a learning journey still. :nerd: After the election I foolishly posted "we have trump, brexit, now we need Marine le pen" (I didnt know at the time that Marine le Pen was a national front fascist leader! and I'm not that fond of trump either now that I found out about him).

We just have to hold our breath for 10 seconds before pressing the 'send' button!. :flower:


without love in their heart, who 'you can only get on with if you agree with them 100%’…

Yes, Sueanne47, sarcasm* is caustic. (shiver) There are times when I start to respond then realize that my words come from heavy judgement. So I pass. Other times, I consider the source and move on.

To your point of without love in their heart, who 'you can only get on with if you agree with them 100%’, sometimes it’s not that they don’t have love in their heart, it’s their level of awareness. What clouds them is how they allow ego be the talker.

One of the cool things about Avalon is I’ve watched how some shake out of the engrained, acid responses. They’ve softened their approach. What was once a jagged blast is now easily understood and considered.

* intended, hurtful sarcasm

[Sueanne47]

I just got a jagged blast from Herve : http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?79906-The-critical-methane-problem-we-all-face&p=1115482&viewfull=1#post1115482

With some people, you can just 'feel' their anger towards you. I try to avoid them as much as I can (I have about 6 here). I wouldnt stay here if it wasnt for the great friends I've found that make living worthwhile.

[Rich]

I was a bit sad for CO2 that he was banned, he was such a kind person, he probably didn't even know he was unfit for Avalon. I've seen people in my friends list banned after I came back from a 6 month break. No one knows who could be next, maybe me, maybe you.

Mods and Bill don't see this as a critic please, I agree with whatever your decisions may be on the forum.

[Mandala]

For what it may be worth, probably not much, I have been around for quite a while also. One thing I will say is that Bill and the mods do a better job than most of the forums out there moderating what goes on in this forum. This one still has dignity and class, while many or the others are mean, critical, divisive and downright vulgar.

We are a microcosm of the larger aspect of our world. We need to understand the power of our words. Words are often the first weapon drawn in a war. They can maim, harm, ruin trust and alienate people. Sarcasm can be witty and clever, but can also be the catalyst for crushing compromise and actually listening to others points of view.

We have a responsibility for policing our words and ourselves. It is up to us to be civil or to act as reptilians.

This election has been the meanest I've ever seen, and has brought out the worst in so many people. I reframed from using social media of any kind, posting any comments about my political views or trying to get others to see my viewpoint.

I was not really happy with the candidates running for office; however, we are in a tough spot. I have to believe everything happens for a reason and everyone on this timeline is going to experience this.

Lets stop being so full of hate and deal with the situation we have in the best possible manner.

Think, Listen, Speak, Listen

[Sueanne47]

I was a bit sad for CO2 that he was banned, he was such a kind person, he probably didn't even know he was unfit for Avalon. I've seen people in my friends list banned after I came back from a 6 month break. No one knows who could be next, maybe me, maybe you.

One of my friends was banned as well, this person had a great sense of humour which is what we need.

[RunningDeer]

I just got a jagged blast from Herve : http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?79906-The-critical-methane-problem-we-all-face&p=1115482&viewfull=1#post1115482

With some people, you can just 'feel' their anger towards you. I try to avoid them as much as I can (I have about 6 here). I wouldnt stay here if it wasnt for the great friends I've found that make living worthwhile.

I just got a jagged blast from...

Would you mind quitting your spreading fear porn? Inform yourself better?

This feels like an invitation to step in between endearing members. Having only one son, I never had the opportunity to perfect that art.

http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/Recovered/debate_zpsnxklp2jc.GIF................http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/Recovered/2mo5pow_zps9vhsc4hc.GIF


As for the comment, spreading fear porn, I agree. That's based on how you remind me of me a couple of years ago. In my mind, I believed that I helped get the word out, educate, wake people up. When in reality, though I was not aware of it at the time, it was a way to diffuse my personal fears. That realization was an important one.

Generally speaking, now I cherry pick what I post from sources such as: Cathrine Austin Fitts, Dark Journalist, Joseph P. Farrell and Greg Hunter. Sites/videos such as, X22Report, Christopher Green and Alex Jones, I’ll listen to every now and again because it's all the same with a new date and title. Too, I figured members that are interest will have bookmarked or can run a search.

What was once important to spend hours of study on “stuff” is now a waste of my precious time. My focus is on what feeds growth and balance of self. The rest is for curiosity, entertainment or when I need a coffee break from the real study and life. This is also one of the ways I contribute to the larger.

http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/Recovered/smileys-hugs-765537_zpso1eaenyy.gif

[Sueanne47]

But most up to date news ISNT good!!! okay I'll take the hint and wont post any news from now on..

[Carmody]

It's the macrocosm of the microcosm of going clear. The mind grasps for solidity via the reflection of that roiling in/out mirror called the ego and external world.

The individual contributive motions and sounds becomes the subtle directions of the baseline noise witnessed by the individual in the point of flow and flux.

Each kernel of corn pops differently than the next. That individual time of change engenders a desire for solidity of grip, usually with little in the way of understanding of the necessity of emptying and flow with the given flux, before the change can unfold.

As the individual undergoes change in times of a less settled nature, and expresses into the world their given moments of change in self, they add their noise, and the micro goes macro.

Existentialism for the world, in any manner, relatively speaking...is going to be a messy affair at best.

[RunningDeer]

But most up to date news ISNT good!!! okay I'll take the hint and wont post any news from now on..
No hint on my part. I took the time to share what I learned of myself. I'll not get those wasted, fear-filled years back. It is my hope that it'll save you time and possible arguments with loved ones that aren't ready to hear. To stay abreast is good. Don't let it consume. Don't let it take away from family, friends and your creativity.

[greybeard]

But most up to date news ISNT good!!! okay I'll take the hint and wont post any news from now on..
No hint on my part. I took the time to share what I learned of myself. I'll not get those wasted, fear-filled years back. It is my hope that it'll save you time and possible arguments with loved ones that aren't ready to hear. To stay abreast is good. Don't let it consume. Don't let it take away from family, friends and your creativity.

Well Paula we are definitely on the same page on this.
In the early days here I spent hours looking into this and that and one case in point I was obsessed with Nibru--though I did not see it that way.
I wanted Earth to have a new beginning for th evil to b destroyed and the good to survive

Every u tube video I could find on the subject I posted.
On that Herve pointed out several facts.pushed my buttons.
Also on the resonance of the Earth--Herve again correct
Herve has a scientist mind and for that I am grateful very direct, painfully so at times.

My dearest Sue and Im not being sarcastic--we share a birthday and a nature--times you might have thought I was being critical--if so it was because I was reminded of a younger me and the sleepless nights I spent full of adrenalin, even getting up in the middle of the night some times, to find something to expose the "bastids"

Did it raise my consciousness--did it better my life --did it improve my relationships?
Do I need to answer that?

Paula just trying to save you some pain, as I do with love.

Chris

[Billy]

I was a bit sad for CO2 that he was banned, he was such a kind person, he probably didn't even know he was unfit for Avalon. I've seen people in my friends list banned after I came back from a 6 month break. No one knows who could be next, maybe me, maybe you.

One of my friends was banned as well, this person had a great sense of humour which is what we need.

Having a "great" sense of humour is certainly a great gift and is always welcome on Avalon. As long as I have been a member here, I have never seen a member being banned for having a great sense of humour Susanne. Your friend would have been banned for other reasons that you do not mention. Members have been banned for various reasons. For example, using Avalon and members for their own hidden agendas. Stalking, being disrespectful towards other members. ECT.

[ThePythonicCow]

At the request of the original poster, I have (with pleasure) changed the title of this thread from "A Final Farewell" to "Not Quite Farewell".

[Cristian]

I was a bit sad for CO2 that he was banned, he was such a kind person, he probably didn't even know he was unfit for Avalon. I've seen people in my friends list banned after I came back from a 6 month break. No one knows who could be next, maybe me, maybe you.

Mods and Bill don't see this as a critic please, I agree with whatever your decisions may be on the forum.

CO2 ban was an interesting one.

Nobody can argue about the decision ...yet many were left grasping for words.

Avalon and Bill himself do have a trace of elitism in their decision making. But to their credit there is a lot of silliness going around.

Herve has an intelligence and arrogance of his own. Is that good or bad?

I don't know.

If you attract life force sooner or later you have to set up rules. You have to get your cats to not pee all over, your dogs to not assault the neighbors and your forum users to not act completely stupid .

How you accomplish that is always the issue.

And your own limitations show up ...when you want/try to impose something.

Nobody wants silly members ...but who's to say who's silly or not? Based on what criteria ?

And yes, someone can be silly in 10 threads and strike gold in the 11'th.

Who's to know?

[Billy]

There has been quite a few mentions of different polarities in this thread. For example, left and right as far as political opinions go. Being balanced has also been mentioned. But what exactly is being in a balanced state mean.?

What I have learned through my lives journey, is that there is a balanced positive and an unbalanced positive, a balanced negative and unbalanced negative. When a balanced positive and a balanced negative meet in the middle of the person, that person becomes balanced.
It is the same with left and right in the political arena. There are unbalanced left supporters and balanced left supporters, unbalanced right supporters and balanced right supporters. The solution's are to be found somewhere in the neutral centre's of both balanced energies.

We are all aware that the world is riding a storm at this time. Crazy times indeed. Emotions are heightened but we all know the value of riding this storm together. During the Scottish referendum and brexit I made myself a promise that I would not lose good friends because of different political opinions. My friends and I had hot debates but that promise worked. The love and care I have for my friends way outweighed any political outcome.

My inner intentions are for all outcomes to be for the betterment of all.

We can all do this if we stick together and focus more on solutions, rather than dramatic unbalanced fear porn.

Love to all :heart: :grouphug:

[Bill Ryan]

I haven't read most of the posts in this thread, as I have effectively retired myself from this forum but fully agree with the OP. There is a group of highly vociferous and opinionated, and pretty right-wing, members of this forum who assume everyone agrees with their highly biased rants. The one mentioned by the OP is one but there are a bunch of others - you know who you are - who think anyone who doesn't agree with them is naive or stupid or a paid shill. I occasionally check any UFO/ET related stuff but never log in - this will be the one and only exception - and ignore the politically motivated ones - as I say mostly the usual suspects involved and all of a similar slant. I did take a peek a few weeks ago and practicaly all the latest threads were of that nature. Maybe I'm wrong but it has to be a reasonable assumption that the mods here and even the site owner agrees with the bigots. Now I'm sure there are many members who don't but here's the deal. For me - I did read one or two early posts in this thread on the lines of "don't throw out the baby with the bathwater" but this is missing the point. I don't wish to be a member of the same forum as some PA members. I'm damn glad I don't live next door to some of these guys or I'd have to move. That's me done - I had practically retired myself anyway and never posted much either. Bye. Don't anyone bother responding as I won't be reading it.

Hey there, this is Bill here, responding personally. I totally get what you're saying.


I haven't read most of the posts in this thread
...
Don't anyone bother responding as I won't be reading it.

I get that, too, but I hope that you do read this, and I also hope you do read most of the posts on the thread. It may be well worth it, and that's a kind of promise.

If you did read everything -- including what I and quite a few others have written -- you'd see that some of what you passionately feel to be the case may not be so, at all... most certainly including the mods (and the 'site owner') agreeing with unreasonable and extreme views.

We do not. It's important, in fact, that we continue to moderate/ facilitate/ preside over a respectful, balanced and intelligent discussion. This can be more than tricky, but that's what we're honestly trying to do.

If you only have a few minutes (logged in or not), do please read this post of mine. (#44, two days ago.) You may possibly be reassured.


http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?94588-Not-Quite-Farewell&p=1115071&viewfull=1#post1115071

We understand, and absolutely wish you well -- and I would like to personally ask you to maybe take a moment revisit some of your conclusions about


'practically all the forum threads being politically motivated' (not the case, at all)
and that 'it's a reasonable assumption that the mods here and even the site owner agrees with the bigots' (very, very far from the case).

In fact, one such 'bigot' has been unsubscribed, as he'd been a concern of ours for quite some time (and of other members too, as has been communicated to us, with appreciation).

To step into the site owners' shoes a little more :) -- please do read my post #44 linked above (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?94588-Not-Quite-Farewell&p=1115071&viewfull=1#post1115071). And also, please, these two subsequent posts of yesterday. Both may be helpful, and even important.


#61: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?94588-Not-Quite-Farewell&p=1115253&viewfull=1#post1115253
#74: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?94588-Not-Quite-Farewell&p=1115338&viewfull=1#post1115338

Thanks again for your post, and for giving me an opportunity to clarify further -- totally on behalf of the whole mods team, too. It was genuinely helpful.

In these times, we have to speak our truth, but (as I've mentioned) it's how we speak our truth that really matters.

[Mike]

Getting comfortable in uncomfortable situations is a crucial life skill. If you don't run off immediately, if you sort of marinate in the discomfort..in a way, over time, you kind of inoculate yourself against it...much like a child playing in dirt naturally inoculates himself against bacteria and so forth.

Im not a man who deliberately seeks pain, and I wouldnt suggest that for anybody else. Yet, we frequently refer to ourselves as the "front line" here. Forget the illuminati..what kind of chance do we have in our everyday lives if we are to get too touchy in a forum environment like this? The earth is an uncomfortable place....cant hide from it. Or run from it. We have to learn to swim in it, wallow in it, marinate in it....learn how to deal with it.

If we always retreat at the first whiff of "bad energy", we'll be retreating forever. And, one day, you wont be able to retreat, and having never dealt with this negativity before, youll find yourself in a very vulnerable position.

Theres a healthy space between emotional sensitivity and emotional toughness. In these polarizing times, thats right where you wanna be

[Gekko]

Though I agree with perspectives from OP and others in this thread, I disagree with banning people short of them making threats against or persistently harassing another member with hate speech. What appear as ignorant views or attitudes don't disappear when the person representing them is silenced.

There seems to be a dynamic which happens on many forums when a certain view (or collection of commonly associated views) gains popularity. Those who correctly or incorrectly perceive themselves to be in the minority on that topic go mute for fear of backlash if they contradict "the bandwagon", or they simply lose interest in posting. Which again contributes to the perception that the forum is almost entirely of one mindset.

Maybe it's a shared responsibility that we express what's important to us and engage problematic viewpoints/trends as we come across them?

[Ernie Nemeth]

How many times have we seen people sweep through this forum with novel concepts and entrance everyone with their keen acumen. They collect like-minded individuals like knick knacks. They talk with authority and soon begin to proselytize (don't you hate it when spell check can't suggest the word you want?, took me twenty minutes to find it by hand). Then in a few weeks or months their true colors come out and soon after they are gone, often taking long-standing members with them. 777 comes to mind, having come back to tell us so.

Some people have an agenda. Some people just don't know how to behave. Some people just have a knack of making friends and seeming sincere. Some people just come here to learn. And some people come here to gather support. Others come here to become part of the "in" crowd. Some come just so as not to be alone, lurking around the fringes, wishing they knew how to seem like someone worthy of note or friendship. Still others come to see their words in print in a safe environment.

Bill and the mods work to make everyone welcome. It can't be an easy job.

In here, it is easy to see why the world is in the state it is in because even here, with like-minded, best-intentioned participants, we still cannot come to any consensus on anything. Makes me wonder and even despair at whether there even is a solution.

[Matthew]

In the case of CO2 I regretfully share my opinion they were an expert troll. Trolls are people too and appreciate friendship and banter while parodying the subject matter pretending to be serious. This is my humble opinion but because of what I believe I was relieved at the moderation.

On the other hand I let the moderator team know how unhappy I was about the wording of the OP in this thread. I'm glad I didn't weigh in by posting though (I clicked report this thread) because despite what I still believe to be unfortunate wording a voice needed to be heard I guess, .. judging from the reaction of 'the old guard' the voice just hanging on by a thread had company. I started out being quite unhappy about a few things in this thread but with hyndsight I'm reassured by the moderation policy of listening. I'm very glad a group here got their voice back.

[Sueanne47]

Amazing how cruel humans can be once they decide someone has done wrong in some way

How true is that? Members and Mods both join in like a pack of wolves to pick apart someone....knowing full well their words can make someone leave..or is that the intention?, I've been accused yesterday of posting 'fear porn' when all I have posted is NEWS and information on a subject....not fair.

Even 'friends' can turn on you...how can we have friendship here without trust?

[greybeard]

Friendship can be sharing a part of them selves, of their some what painful experience, in the hope of preventing suffering Sueanne--sometimes love is tough.
As I said some time ago you are free to post as you wish, that has responsibility as per Bills post here.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?78116-RECORD-of-MODERATOR-ACTIONS&p=1115478&viewfull=1#post1115478


is that we continue to stick to good journalism, respect for all views, and intelligent, measured discussion of all these very important issues.


http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?94588-Not-Quite-Farewell&p=1115318&viewfull=1#post1115318



The forum is not Facebook or Twitter, or a series of cheap-and-crude YouTube comments. It's a discussion forum dedicated and committed to facilitating learning on a wide range of fronts. We want members and guests to come here, and feel


Better informed, and more knowledgeable
Inspired and motivated (where possible/applicable)
Not quite so alone (as many feel they are)
Encouraged to see the entire human race as a vast spectrum of usually good people, not always well-informed and often manipulated, living lives in sometimes difficult (or even appalling) conditions, and usually all striving for the same goals.



Bill is not for sensational video headlines.

Sueanne please do not take anything to heart, you are above that--you are a good member.

With love
Chris

[DeDukshyn]

To add ...

Any stranger or loose acquaintance will tell you you look good today or that your new hair looks great or whatever. A true friend will tell you when you have spinach stuck in your teeth.



Friendship can be sharing a part of them selves, of their some what painful experience, in the hope of preventing suffering Sueanne--sometimes love is tough.
As I said some time ago you are free to post as you wish, that has responsibility as per Bills post here.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?78116-RECORD-of-MODERATOR-ACTIONS&p=1115478&viewfull=1#post1115478


is that we continue to stick to good journalism, respect for all views, and intelligent, measured discussion of all these very important issues.


http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?94588-Not-Quite-Farewell&p=1115318&viewfull=1#post1115318



The forum is not Facebook or Twitter, or a series of cheap-and-crude YouTube comments. It's a discussion forum dedicated and committed to facilitating learning on a wide range of fronts. We want members and guests to come here, and feel


Better informed, and more knowledgeable
Inspired and motivated (where possible/applicable)
Not quite so alone (as many feel they are)
Encouraged to see the entire human race as a vast spectrum of usually good people, not always well-informed and often manipulated, living lives in sometimes difficult (or even appalling) conditions, and usually all striving for the same goals.



Bill is not for sensational video headlines.

Sueanne please do not take anything to heart, you are above that--you are a good member.

With love
Chris

[Innocent Warrior]

Amazing how cruel humans can be once they decide someone has done wrong in some way

How true is that? Members and Mods both join in like a pack of wolves to pick apart someone....knowing full well their words can make someone leave..or is that the intention?, I've been accused yesterday of posting 'fear porn' when all I have posted is NEWS and information on a subject....not fair.

Even 'friends' can turn on you...how can we have friendship here without trust?

Suesanne, you seem like a nice lady, try not to take things personally and try to see the intent behind people's posts before becoming offended and then if you still think a certain post is out of line then report it to bring it to the attention of the mods. As you can see in my reply to Bill, I didn't appreciate the manner in which the OP conveyed his point and Bill clarified his intent, so OK, I'm no longer bothered and mentioned what I think would have been a kinder way to effectively go about expressing his intent. And here I am, no ban hammer or ill feelings, Bill, admin and mods are reasonable people.

I was a moderator for about eight months I think, plenty of time to see how the staff operates, enough time to observe what motivates these people who are kind enough to volunteer their time in order to maintain a safe and respectable environment for us members. I may not always agree with everything and the mods don't always agree with each other about various things but their motivation and reason for being here is flawless. Bill, admin and mods don't deserve to be likened to a pack of wolves, if you have any problems with them then I suggest you send them a private message, like I said, they're reasonable people. Take the time to get to know people and you'll find your time here on Avalon will be a more pleasant experience for you.

[RunningDeer]

Members and Mods both join in like a pack of wolves to pick apart someone....knowing full well their words can make someone leave..or is that the intention?...

Even 'friends' can turn on you...how can we have friendship here without trust?
Sueanne47, sometimes a visual help put things into perspective. Since you joined on July 16, 2016, you’ve got a total of 65 threads (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/search.php?searchid=14355475) and 1549 posts (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/search.php?searchid=14355478) in four months. By comparison here’s a sampling of thread counts of people from your friends’ list and/or threads you frequent on the forum:


Sueanne47 - 65 threads in 4 months
Baby Steps - 17 threads in 2 yrs.
BeTooBig - 35 threads in 2 1/2 yrs.
Chris - 28 threads in almost 7 yrs.
DeDukshyn - 32 threads in 6 yrs.
RunningDeer - 91 threads in almost 5 yrs.
Sstarss - 0 threads in 2 1/2 yrs.
Wind - 14 threads in 5 yrs.

Food for thought: how many pack of wolves and friends in your 3D life are there that express appreciation, thanks, support, read, and respond to such an extensive amount of material?


http://avalonlibrary.net/paula/General/thanks_zpspagkncx7.JPG

[Ewan]

Amazing how cruel humans can be once they decide someone has done wrong in some way

How true is that? Members and Mods both join in like a pack of wolves to pick apart someone....knowing full well their words can make someone leave..or is that the intention?, I've been accused yesterday of posting 'fear porn' when all I have posted is NEWS and information on a subject....not fair.

Even 'friends' can turn on you...how can we have friendship here without trust?

Hi Sue, I know exactly how you feel because I have felt just like that myself before. Most of those feelings belong in the past though, sometimes, I admit, they still surface, but they no longer hang around very long. I came to understand that what was 'feeling' upset was not really me but an image of me. A story, it was my story, no-one had the right to interfere with my story.

Except I also came to realise, through bouts of introspection, that much of the wisdom found in the eastern philosophies is indeed wise. The injunction, 'Know thyself', is so simple to say but has such great depth in can take a lifetime to appreciate.

The expression 'fear porn' is used where information has been taken and sensationalised for dramatic effect. It also usely indicates that the information is not strictly accurate, or worse, deliberately altered to look even more dramatic.

Herve just pointed out that the video you posted wasn't strictly accurate and even explained why. He then applied the label 'fear-porn' so you would know what it was.

There is another way to handle this. You could feel grateful or appreciative for having your own awareness expanded, think of it as a gift. :)

The ego will view it one way, the real you will view it another. Which voice will you listen to? Know this, the ego always speaks first, long and loud. Spirit waits quietly to communicate when all is still. God bless.

[uzn]

Hi Ewan, did you know that "Know Thyself" (in greek) was carved in Stone above the entrance to the Temple of Delphy (where the Oracle was)? ;)

[TargeT]

RunningDeer - 91 threads in almost 5 yrs.


omg spammer!

;)

I've only got 83 in 6 years

Guess I'm not much of an original contributor, more of a conversation participant.

Taking criticism is difficult, I'm working through a period with my two girls where any criticism of action whatsoever causes tears & flared emotions. I don't even have very good advice, for myself when I get that initial "feeling" of emotion I start to analyze the situation. Especially if I feel like I have to reply sooner than later (the sense of urgency is another good indicator).

I try my best to do all my thinking and interacting in a conscious, purposeful way, when emotional states are involved it's much harder to stay true to my core self.

anyway, I'm having fun reading some of my way-back-early posts now that I've gotten to dig into the search engine.. I mostly still agree with myself (not sure if that's a good thing or bad thing).

[greybeard]

Is int life strange thats two friends gone Lake and Sueanne at the same time.
Farewell.
Oh well --it is as it is.
Chris

[Ewan]

I do hope hindsight kicks in for Sue at some point, pretty sure we've all been there.

[AutumnW]

Youtube videos with sensational material, that reflect the opinion of the person who put the youtube video together, aren't, in my opinion, 'news.' They can be very compelling and make you think, but they are not necessarily factual. Same with esoteric sites and political/esoteric blogs.

I had a conversation with a friend the other day who frequents a site full of VERY 'clever' people who had put together a list of people who were part of 'the cabal,' (whatever that is, exactly.) They included a very well respected woman, often quoted on these forums, because she had an association with a certain political heavyweight -- also on the list.

They included an explanation of why this association was so damning. I was able to cut the 'information,' to shreds because I spoke in detail with the political heavyweight and posed questions to him directly relating to the matter involved.

This was several years ago. There is nothing, absolutely nothing to the claim. Not only should he not be on their list, neither should the woman they slimed.

The times are ripe for demonizing, witch hunts, etc...Extreme negative stereotyping based on selective footage used to create youtube videos is highly problematic.

[Innocent Warrior]

I do hope hindsight kicks in for Sue at some point, pretty sure we've all been there.

I was there after being a member for one week.

I almost sent what I posted to Sue in a PM because two members had already replied to her post, think I'll go that way next time if the same situation arises again. We know where we're all coming from and we know we're all reaching out to her but it can easily be taken the other way when you're not so familiar with everyone and it can feel like you're getting ganged up on. It can be tough here when you're not familiar with everyone and don't understand where they're coming from, that's partly why I spent so much of my time on Wind's thread, it's a safe place.

[Curious77]

mojo -- Very much agree with that assessment -- "conspiracy theory" doesn't work any more -- so now they're trying "fake news" -- but most of us understand the MSM are finished -- viewers are dwindling. It's pretty much over and they know it.

Our governments have never been more corrupt -- it's a time to unite (as it always has been) and to pool our imaginations, intelligence and try to pull this out.

Even if we have only ten years before the Global Warming wild card takes it all away -- I would like the final days to actually be a time when we've all worked together everywhere -- for true equality for all and not the fakery of our Founders who actually created an Elite Patriarchy, endowed them with land grants and immense influence and control over our government, the nation's wealth and natural resources. All while proclaiming "All are equal!." What farce.
They guaranteed the Civil War by protecting the system of slavery for Elites - even down to the "Runaway Slave Act" and into another 100 years of Segregation. They committed genocide vs the natives Americans here while kidnapping their children for the final blow of destroying the native languages, their customs -- torturing their children in their custody in US "Church Schools run by Catholic and Mormon Church." There the children were abused in every way possible -- beaten, hung, psychologically and sexually abused.

Here we are today with the right wing having risen by violence and assassination, by lies and right wing propaganda -- and pretty much everywhere.
Because the US conspired before the end of WWII to permit only right wing governments to take office in countries over which they had control at the time -- Germany, Italy, Japan -- ensuring that liberals would be kept out of office in nations over which the US had control at that time. That idea was obviously soon brought home to the US, as well.

Two years before the end of WWII, American citizens were being betrayed by Allen Dulles and the Elites he represented who had set up Hitler -- they moved to bring the Gestapo from Germany to the US as the CIA with Operation Paperclip. They moved on our American free press with Operation Mockingbird. And they moved on other nations with Operation Gladio.

We just watched an election where we had two criminally minded candidates running -- Clinton at the least representing NWO interests -- and Trump "volatile" and childish in his concept of government -- dragging along his past failures and some very questionable attitudes towards women.

Here we are, folks. I personally think we need to be discussing what to do to save freedom and democracy -- if we ever had it.
We have the wild card of Global Warming coming at us -- we've just had 9 earthquakes over 6 in the last 30 days which recalls the Pentagon's secret memo to W in 2004 warning him that Global Warming is a greater threat to the US than "terrorism." "Earthquakes" were scrubbed some time ago from the memo.

Are we to argue about which criminal will steal faster or slower from the public and the Treasury?

Both parties are now owned by Koch Bros. and other large corporations -- parties are meaningless -- they are ONE.

I voted for Jill Stein -- but it was probably my last vote. And raising $2.5 million in just two days to ask for a recount in three states that would likely turn the election over in favor of Hillary is questionable for me. Who financed this -- the HRC campaign? And what of spending $2.5 million in this way when our nation needs so much -- send it to the natives trying to overturn DAPL? Use it to protect the Bees.

For the last 50 years we've been voting on hack-able computers --
See: Votescam -- The Stealing of America
http://www.votescam.org/

The book was written at the end of an investigation by two journalists in Florida (one who had been running for office) into the computer voting machines. They were already quite familiar with how machines could be rigged to steal votes.
When the book was published and sent on to bookstores and put up on shelves, it
was quickly taken down again and repacked and sent back to publishers.
I doubt there ever was a "Southern Strategy" -- only the computer which began coming in during the late 1960's. Large computers used by MSM came in about 1965 and gave them immense new powers to proclaim winners and losers - often based on only 1% or less of the vote. Previously, they could only report actual votes tallied.

Are we really going to say, "So they stole everything -- I'm on my way" ... ???





See: Operation Mockingbird — scroll down to “History” — which was being written two years before the end of WWII.

See: Operation Paperclip — Wiki’s figures are low — at the minimum 64,000+ which included families but more likely 200,000 according to Kay Griggs/YouTube.

See: Operation Gladio — US program to keep right wing governments in place in the countries over which they had control after WWII — Germany, Japan, Italy. In Italy, US actually resurrected the Mafia in order to ensure the plan would be carried out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip

[Curious77]

Autumn --

True YouTube videos aren't necessarily factual -- nor non-factual.

They will play you a repeat of how ABC cut the immediate report after JFK's death where Malcolm Kilduff points to his right temple, almost at the hairline to let Americans know how their president was wounded from the FRONT -- and which exited out the back right side of his head creating a huge gaping wound. Kilduff was Assistant Press Secretary to JFK.

If you don't know that the video was cut in order to cut out that part, then that's all you'll your see is the video without the truth.

If you happen to know that there is another video there which is the FULL video and which reports the actual truth of the wound, then you are better informed about what really happened that day.

One of our MSM network's eliminated the truth and created that fake video.

Everyone has to be able to deal with these situations now -- presuming that MSM is reliable is fantasy. And the greatest evidence for that is 9/11 and the role MSM played in allowing that false flag operation to go forward unchallenged.

MSM has long been lying to the American public --
They've also created taboo subjects which can't be discussed -- from Chemtrails to the truth about vaccines -- on and on.

Don't let anyone create a taboo subject or convince you that MSM is broadcasting truth or has a monopoly on truth -- just the opposite is true.
You have to use your own judgment about what is true.

[AutumnW]

Curious,

You are absolutely correct. A vote against many politically slanted youtube vidoes, that appear to be blatant propaganda, is not a vote FOR the MSM, which is another form of extreme and intentional propaganda.

The 'liberals' have been demonized in any number of ways, not the least of which, is handing the reins of academic power over to the extreme progressive feminist left, through gender studies programs at universities.

Who on earth would support anything or anyone affiliated with this bunch of Stalinist mad hatters? Any reasonable thinking person would and should be afraid of these f***-ups ever gaining real hard power outside of the PC wonderland they inhabit.

But...here's the thing and you will hopefully carefully consider what I am saying here. Who has funded these studies on campuses across the Western world? Are they a bunch of old lefties, imposing their own agendas? Or is the funding coming from the hard right?

Have they deliberately promoted the loonie left and helped them gain traction, so the entire progressive movement, (originally formed to address matters of income disparity and real macro-aggressions against ethnic minorities at a time blacks were still being lynched) looks insane?

If that was their intent, they have succeeded. And it is no wonder Trump, with all of his overt lies, bullying tactics, rudeness must seem like a breath of fresh air to so many people. And with the help of Breitbart creating videos that rightfully slam sjw's and the loonie left, everything appears to have fallen into place and mainly through social media.

I ask you, again, who is funding gender studies programs? I think it is the hard right themselves. You know that the hard right helped Ralph Nader, knowing he didn't have a chance. And he was denied a chance, after being funded because the media ignored him. But he did draw enough votes away from the party they wished to defeat to score a victory, and the right has 'doubled down' and gotten even harder, ever since.

[Snoweagle]

Thought I would share

A few days ago at lunch time, I stopped to buy some bread to make some sandwiches. At the bakery stall I was heartened by the selection of bread rolls which tempted my options for something different. There were soft white, crispy white, soft granary, crispy granary, crispy finger rolls, low GI rolls and others, yet one was new to me and that was the high protein brown rolls on the top shelf.

So I purchased two of the following, soft white, soft granary and just to try, the bad boy High protein ones.

That lunchtime whilst I sat with others I displayed my selection and the discussion around the group was of their favourite rolls whether locally, nationally or those overseas, each to their preferences of filling and variety of recipes.

Having already ate a white and a granary filled roll, I then displayed my high protein bad boys to the group. Very brown in colour and triangular in shape, I held them up and twisted each to form a six pointed star and waved it around proclaiming them now to be special. I had sliced one along two edges so it looked like a beak then mimicked Kermit the frog before I filled and ate.

Later that afternoon I was startled when I realised my constitution required a bathroom visit. At the time, as unusual for that time of day for this process to take place, I shrugged off the significance. However, another two hours passed and the same thing happened and I was now concerned that this was a precursor warning of dire anatomical consequences. Yet my bathroom sorties were normal. I was being cleansed maybe.

This was all well and good physiologically but it was screwing with my planned affairs of the day and caused me some concern as to the seriousness of how the condition might impact on me. Furthermore, I also considered how anyone impacted as I had been would do so if they had ate the same whilst picnicing in a public place. Not good.

Anyway I arrived home that evening and again another sortie though this was the last and everything was normal so those bad boy rolls certainly did live up to their claim.

Later that evening I pondered this event and considered writing to the Baker and advising them of my plight that day. Yet, I had to accept that not everybody may have been affected as I had nor could I exclude that my diet as a whole may have included something else I was now blaming on the bad boys.

If I had written to the Baker, how would they react to my isolated incident. Had I incurred any misfortune? No. Were there any after effects? No. Did I experience any discomfort? No. But it messed with my time and I was concerned was my only complaint. Ok and I felt cleansed though I hadn't expected that as a by product of a sandwich. It was so unexpected.

Can you imagine the glazed eyes of disbelief from the Baker at my tale. Do you think for one minute they would change the recipe at my plight? What about hanging a warning to other shoppers? Hardly. And how would my good standing fare with the Baker if I'd had made a scene or threats of some kind.

It was entirely my choice whether I venture purchasing anything else marked high protein in the future. My choice.

So where am I going with this?

Aren't our comments here on this forum just like those rolls?
We each know our preferences and tolerances or rather we claim to know them yet are often torn by the ways we differ on both or how we present them to each other.

Aren't our comments of different recipes, often a kaleidoscope of flavours yet for the most part enjoyable across the spectrum?
Indeed our preferences are many and our selections are our own choices.

Aren't our comments upsetting to some and welcomed by others just like my rolls?
Of course. We are all different. We agree to disagree yet some tastes are just unpalatable at times and impact our choices.

Over all this, the Baker has to manage the congress at their stall. Here on this forum the administrators are our Baker.

When we consider the variety and flavours being displayed it is often very difficult to fine tune the recipe to suit all choices. Even the Baker has standards which they must guard with a gloved hand and temper the mix to maintain balance for the whole group.

When things are fine, we rarely reach out and thank the Baker. Yet we feel the need to tear them a new one when we believe we have been singled out in some way.

I will not be writing to my the Baker of my rolls as I accept now that I have both lost and gained something from the choice I made that day. I am also thankful that should I have need to I am able to approach them openly and respectfully for the essential role they play in my lfe.

Likewise, here at Avalon, the administrators must ensure our recipes produce the appropriate flavours for us to enjoy too.

Source of rolls: Lidl (UK)

[Craig]

Ah yes Snoweagle,

I can safely say that many a time what I have said has given people the desire to drop sorties, but not through acts of malice, just having it fall on deaf ears, but hopefully we will all open up at some stage.

great story though, I am now very hungry.

[Cartomancer]

I hear ya big guy. I too came back after a long absence. I still read things here a few times a week though. I will still post things here and there if relevant.

[Praxis]

You will be missed Whiskey.

I think we here should take a moment to consider what is pushing quality people like Whiskey and abmqa away from this site.

[RunningDeer]

You will be missed Whiskey.

I think we here should take a moment to consider what is pushing quality people like Whiskey and abmqa away from this site.

Whiskey_Mystic left and returned and left again. And if I recall correctly, there was one other time as well. I’m incline to believe that it’s an internal push rather than something external pushing one away.

There are times when our life perspectives no longer match the majority. For some, there’s no desire to express these perspective or deal with the nay sayers or debaters.

For others, they come to a place where time spent here is time not spent elsewhere. The only way they can change it, is to make a clean break.

[Foxie Loxie]

"Good thinking, 99"!!!! ;)

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Shame to see you go Whiskey :(

Yet, I never understood this need to 'retire', to delete Avalon - as if to make a statement.

I've let myself down in the past with a thread that got to me, or something I posted I wish I hadn't. There's times where I drifted away, or had to contend with real life. There was no need to up and resign. Or go on a sabbatical. I just didn't log in.

#perplexed

[Bill Ryan]

You will be missed Whiskey.

I think we here should take a moment to consider what is pushing quality people like Whiskey and abmqa away from this site.

I've met Whiskey_Mystic, and enjoyed a wonderful, long, relaxed conversation with him. He's also assisted me in other ways, and he's a very good man. In his e-mail to me requesting retirement, he said he'd buy me dinner the next time we met, and I very much appreciate and look forward to that. :sun:

I've not met abqma, but I've had some really interesting PM exchanges with him. He's a qualified, educated, interesting, and highly intelligent man.

And so is Praxis, very evidently. He sent me a long PM yesterday, and I owe him an equally thoughtful reply.

So, there's no animosity here. I highly respect them all.

But in just that manner in which one treats friends whom one respects, I would share with each one of them my perspective of the truth:

That in my strong opinion, they each have some fixed ideas, always of course courteously and intelligently expressed, and do not correctly understand some of the really important things that are happening in the world all around us... right now.

[Ewan]

and do not correctly understand some of the really important things that are happening in the world all around us... right now.



Please compose a post with your views on this subject when you have time, it would be much appreciated I am sure.

[Rich]

Yet, I never understood this need to 'retire', to delete Avalon - as if to make a statement.

Maybe if someone doesn't feel in alignment with what the forum represents or if their expectations are not met or are disappointed in some way or if they spend too much time on the forum (I think all of these I have felt at one point or another).

[Mike]

I've always felt that one of the most important abilities one can have on this planet is the ability to be comfortable with the uncomfortable. The earth is an uncomfortable place. If you spend all your time seeking out the perfect environment, you'll spend your whole life seeking.

There is a strong temptation to say 'screw this, I'm outta here' when the conversation isn't so warm and fuzzy, or when there's some controversy on a certain thread or something. Been there, done that. But it accomplishes nothing; it satisfies a certain ego itch that's saying 'well if you can't see it my way, f#ck all this'. It's easy to feel self righteous in a situation like that; it's easy to feel like you're doing the right thing. But it's largely and ego thing.

I would argue that this is the perfect time to practice being uncomfortable. Stay with it, marinate in it. I'm not suggesting you stay in the thread and hammer home your point. Maybe stop posting there altogether, but don't run off in a huff. There's some real value in that imho. It's akin to playing in dirt to inoculate oneself against germs and so on. Over time, you'll find that you won't be so damn sensitive about things. After all, if we can't do it here, what chance do we have in our everyday lives??? Running and hiding doesn't help, it just further enables a weakness.

[Bill Ryan]

and do not correctly understand some of the really important things that are happening in the world all around us... right now.



Please compose a post with your views on this subject when you have time, it would be much appreciated I am sure.

Sure.


No matter what one's views on Trump, we all dodged a bullet (or MUCH bigger/worse) when Hillary was not elected.
NWO-agenda-promoted migration, and forced cultural integration, is a real problem in Europe and a potential problem in North America. (Some would dispute the word 'potential'.)
'Racism' is not an issue, or the issue. (Nor is skin color.) That accusation is very often just a deliberate smear on good people. NWO-agenda-promoted racial conflict IS an issue.
What we understand to be liberal freedom of thought, expression and action is under serious, severe threat, in many parts of the world.
We're closer to a no-turning-back crossroads, relating to the future of civilization, than we have ever been in my lifetime.

[DNA]

I'm continuing with Bill's vein in my own words and thoughts.

The elite/globalists know what they are doing.
They have a plan.
There is a desired destruction they have for what we would call the middle class of the western world.
For clarification, that class would be everyone from the working class Joe to the self made millionaires who own their own businesses.
This "middle class" is the world under the elite that does not rely on public assistance. Folks can be very rich and still be considered middle class by the elite.

The "goal" for this destruction of the middle class is to have as many people as possible on public assistance, and then yank that public assistance.
This would cause mass famine, homelessness and utter misery.
After a certain amount of time has passed they would offer a solution, at a time when everyone would be willing to do anything to improve their situation.
This solution would be a one world government, ruled by the elite, and there would be no end in sight once they initiated this way of rule.

I've never had a beef with Middle Easterners. Never.
I've never blamed anyone from the Middle East for 9/11.
I've been in disgust with the USA's foreign policy of regime change, destabilization and drone/missile bombing of the Middle East.
The USA's war machine has acted on the behest of the elite for the last twenty years at least in my opinion.

The elite know they could not depend on people born within western countries to wreak havoc and mayhem in the same country they were born in, so they have devised a plan to import provocateurs on a massive scale with this importing of Muslim refugees. Who better to wreak havoc than those who have been the victims of western meddling, bombing and regime change for the past fifty years?

The plan is easy to see.
Folks who refuse to do so, do so at their own peril in my opinion.
The world is on a precipice, all of our lives are hanging in the balance.

[Iloveyou]

I‘d like to add an additional parallel storyline to the above:

With the refugee/immigrant influx they created a large, heterogeneous group of people (including criminal gangs and provocateurs brought in on purpose) as scapegoat - so that the population is divided in opposite factions and ready to fight each other - to keep them busy and distract them from looking at the satanic pedophilia practices of the elite (which are essential for their existence).

[Bill Ryan]

I‘d like to add an additional parallel storyline to the above:

With the refugee/immigrant influx they created a large, heterogeneous group of people (including criminal gangs and provocateurs brought in on purpose) as scapegoat - so that the population is divided in opposite factions and ready to fight each other - to keep them busy and distract them from looking at the satanic pedophilia practices of the elite (which are essential for their existence).

I'd say there's a huge amount of truth in that. :thumbsup:

The point it that it's a deliberate agenda. And it's gradually destroying Europe. (The USA is next, folks.)

Anyone who's concerned about these issues is NOT a racist. And they are NOT against liberty and freedom for all good people.

[DeDukshyn]

Anyone who's concerned about these issues is NOT a racist. ....

Not necessarily; any racist could feel concerned and use that as a justification point to continue their racist behaviour :). In fact, that's what the elite are counting on.

However, a person who is completely race neutral, or anti-racist, should be legitimately concerned that this is happening, and ensure to not get into the "race game" by being clear and concise in their communication, to assist in abating the potential for racial tensions.

[Bill Ryan]

Anyone who's concerned about these issues is NOT a racist. ....

Not necessarily; any racist could feel concerned and use that as a justification point to continue their racist behaviour :). In fact, that's what the elite are counting on.

However, a person who is completely race neutral, or anti-racist, should be legitimately concerned that this is happening, and ensure to not get into the "race game" by being clear and concise in their communication, to assist in abating the potential for racial tensions.

Right. :thumbsup:

My point, in context, is that one or two people have become disenchanted with the forum because they feel there are rather too many 'racist' views expressed.

That's entirely incorrect, and it's an error to project that on to good people who care about some major events that are happening in the world.

[DeDukshyn]

Anyone who's concerned about these issues is NOT a racist. ....

Not necessarily; any racist could feel concerned and use that as a justification point to continue their racist behaviour :). In fact, that's what the elite are counting on.

However, a person who is completely race neutral, or anti-racist, should be legitimately concerned that this is happening, and ensure to not get into the "race game" by being clear and concise in their communication, to assist in abating the potential for racial tensions.

Right. :thumbsup:

My point, in context, is that one or two people have become disenchanted with the forum because they feel there are rather too many 'racist' views expressed.

That's entirely incorrect, and it's an error to project that on to good people who care about some major events that are happening in the world.

My experience is that there are some people on the forum with some views that might easily qualify as racist, being "concerned" does not vindicate those views. Maybe this is how some of those vocal members who are claiming the racism feel.

It's hard to really know and balance, because not everyone expresses themselves they way they truly feel, a non-racist person might have somewhat lazy ways to express their views, making them appear racist or "more" racist than they are; or vise versa.

This is why I always stress the importance of clear, concise communication devoid of generalizations - it is incredibly important when discussing these topics. I'm on your side on this, but I disagree that it is that simple.

We all need to extend some trust as well, to those who appear to be making racist remarks, that it may just be in their expression and not react. Totally agree on that.

[Bill Ryan]

Anyone who's concerned about these issues is NOT a racist. ....

Not necessarily; any racist could feel concerned and use that as a justification point to continue their racist behaviour :). In fact, that's what the elite are counting on.

However, a person who is completely race neutral, or anti-racist, should be legitimately concerned that this is happening, and ensure to not get into the "race game" by being clear and concise in their communication, to assist in abating the potential for racial tensions.

Right. :thumbsup:

My point, in context, is that one or two people have become disenchanted with the forum because they feel there are rather too many 'racist' views expressed.

That's entirely incorrect, and it's an error to project that on to good people who care about some major events that are happening in the world.

My experience is that there are some people on the forum with some views that might easily qualify as racist, being "concerned" does not vindicate those views. Maybe this is how some of those vocal members who are claiming the racism feel.

It's hard to really know and balance, because not everyone expresses themselves they way they truly feel, a non-racist person might have somewhat lazy ways to express their views, making them appear racist or "more" racist than they are; or vise versa.

This is why I always stress the importance of clear, concise communication devoid of generalizations - it is incredibly important when discussing these topics. I'm on your side on this, but I disagree that it is that simple.

We all need to extend some trust as well, to those who appear to be making racist remarks, that it may just be in their expression and not react. Totally agree on that.

Great post, and I'd expect nothing less. :)

BUT... re
some views that might easily qualify as racist...what's the 'qualification', and who sets it??

(Btw, this exchange might best be moved over to the Racism (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?100738-Racism) thread, and I may do that later.)

[DeDukshyn]

BUT... re
some views that might easily qualify as racist...what's the 'qualification', and who sets it??


If someone says, "Muslims are ruining <blah blah blah>" (I know Muslims aren't a race, just an example), when they more intended to express something different, should their wording be ignored, even if some of us interpret what they say as just a rough expression that they probably meant to say differently? Would not addressing it be potentially enabling wording that is not really appropriate for what the intended expression was?

So "qualification" may well vary a large amount, and, in the case of this forum, it is yourself and the mods that ultimately determine this, as it relates to user activities on it.

In the larger scenario, the qualifiers are each individual. And as established, this will vary a large amount from view to view. If one is ultimately concerned, they will take great care to express themselves on the "safe" side of that variability. Those who do not, may be less concerned about the overall larger picture, and more about their views on race. Should we use this as a "litmus test" for "qualification"? I don't know, but perhaps we can use it to provide guidance around communication.

[Tangri]

Anyone who's concerned about these issues is NOT a racist. ....

Not necessarily; any racist could feel concerned and use that as a justification point to continue their racist behaviour :). In fact, that's what the elite are counting on.

However, a person who is completely race neutral, or anti-racist, should be legitimately concerned that this is happening, and ensure to not get into the "race game" by being clear and concise in their communication, to assist in abating the potential for racial tensions.

Right. :thumbsup:

My point, in context, is that one or two people have become disenchanted with the forum because they feel there are rather too many 'racist' views expressed.

That's entirely incorrect, and it's an error to project that on to good people who care about some major events that are happening in the world.

My experience is that there are some people on the forum with some views that might easily qualify as racist, being "concerned" does not vindicate those views. Maybe this is how some of those vocal members who are claiming the racism feel.

It's hard to really know and balance, because not everyone expresses themselves they way they truly feel, a non-racist person might have somewhat lazy ways to express their views, making them appear racist or "more" racist than they are; or vise versa.

This is why I always stress the importance of clear, concise communication devoid of generalizations - it is incredibly important when discussing these topics. I'm on your side on this, but I disagree that it is that simple.

We all need to extend some trust as well, to those who appear to be making racist remarks, that it may just be in their expression and not react. Totally agree on that.

Thank you,

Nazi s invaded south America with their money years ago and now relatively(for locals) rich Europeans do same, takes no attention for South America's immigration problem. Only west is complaining( like crocodile tears).

There was the member of Avalon who wrote " all Muslims are snake, it is hard to separate which one is Poisson " when I opposed that post, I was forced kindly to get silent for that good intended member.

[Bill Ryan]

There was the member of Avalon who wrote " all Muslims are snake, it is hard to separate which one is Poisson " when I opposed that post, I was forced kindly to get silent for that good intended member.

That's not what she said... your memory has changed it. And you were never 'forced' into silence.

Here's the original quote (she edited her post after it had been reported). I'm not defending this, but please get your quotes 100% correct. As DeDukshyn will agree, it matters (a lot!) on topics like this.


http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?97318-Trump-Illegal-immigration-Sam-s-view&p=1149600&viewfull=1#post1149600

:focus:

[DeDukshyn]

There was the member of Avalon who wrote " all Muslims are snake, it is hard to separate which one is Poisson " when I opposed that post, I was forced kindly to get silent for that good intended member.

That's not what she said... your memory has changed it. And you were never 'forced' into silence.

Here's the original quote (she edited her post after it had been reported). I'm not defending this, but please get your quotes 100% correct. As DeDukshyn will agree, it matters (a lot!) on topics like this.


http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?97318-Trump-Illegal-immigration-Sam-s-view&p=1149600&viewfull=1#post1149600

:focus:

<reviews Bill's linked post>

That post was on the bleeding edge, lol. And I commend Dennis and Rachel for handling it the way they did. That post is an excellent example of the need to take care with your communications; Marique could have made some good points, without the gross negative generalizations (that rendered her view false) and it would have had more value if she had. But we're not the "post police" (well maybe I am sometimes ;)) except where forum rules are clearly broken. There was certainly a very general anti-muslim tone in that post and the points fall apart when seen as coming from a "racists" perspective (as can be seen by the two mods responses to that post). so it is somewhat self correcting (with the help of people who see things objectively and can communicate clearly that objectivity). Anyway, my intention was not to get into this specific conversation ... cheers!

[Tangri]

There was the member of Avalon who wrote " all Muslims are snake, it is hard to separate which one is Poisson " when I opposed that post, I was forced kindly to get silent for that good intended member.

That's not what she said... your memory has changed it. And you were never 'forced' into silence.


Here's the original quote (she edited her post after it had been reported). I'm not defending this, but please get your quotes 100% correct. As DeDukshyn will agree, it matters (a lot!) on topics like this.



http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?97318-Trump-Illegal-immigration-Sam-s-view&p=1149600&viewfull=1#post1149600


:focus:


- ". That's not what she said... your memory has changed it."

If My memory changed it, is it done by words or meaning? Lets compare it if there is any my ill intention on it.

She wrote "Would you put your child in a room with many poisonous snakes and some snakes that are not, would you risk it that they may get bitten by a poisonous snake."

I remember and quoted as " all Muslims are snake, it is hard to separate which one is Poisson (you are claiming -it was not what she said.

Quote from her post-would you risk it that they may get bitten by a poisonous snake.-) My recollection was right, it was hard for her to separate not poisonous snakes from whole snake group for her risk assessment.

With this sentence ( many poisonous snakes and some snakes that are not)

All they are snakes and poisonous with few exception.
Post#192



http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?97318-Trump-Illegal-immigration-Sam-s-view&p=1152666&viewfull=1#post1152666


(she edited her post after it had been reported)Not quite well, as it has been done at her post #204

"Something I am not proud of and working on trying to change, but yes, I can honestly say that I would not shut my kids in a room of poisonous deadly snakes along with non poisonous ones, and hope that they are not bitten and killed. I stand by that."
-------------------
"And you were never 'forced' into silence"

I wrote "I was forced kindly to get silent"

Referring to this post;

"Deep breaths! You have the option of private message if you wish to continue personal discussions." Post#213 (it was kindly for me)

I was driven to private room to discus her racistic remarks.

She never apologized and mod team supported her as she was the victim there.
De Dukshyn's quote;

"So "qualification" may well vary a large amount, and, in the case of this forum, it is yourself and the mods that ultimately determine this, as it relates to user activities on it. "ps" you gave Dennis Leahy post's link as a sample not mine.( I hope , it was an honest mistake not a deliberate one)

[Michelle Marie]

Looks like she apologized. How about some "Love and Hope"?

Racism and racist remarks come from people who have not learned something yet. But with interaction, and love, we can give them the space to grow.

I got in big trouble in my family for NOT being racist. Wasn't treated well. Things did change over time.

I'm sure it was love that changed things. I did not become racist. The change was on the other end, and I was accepted.

This thread is about immigration, which does not signify racism, but maybe the infiltration of a culture that wants to stay intact. From the discussions regarding immigration that I have seen, there are standards of people (wanting upstanding citizens, not gangs or criminals) and common sense immigration laws.

Having goodwill toward all, we should be able to come up with wise solutions that protect cultures while offering limited (based on standards of moral and ethical conduct) and lawful immigration.

It's good to have discussion and learn from each other. I sure do appreciate all the views that broaden my understanding.

MM :)

[DeDukshyn]

... you gave Dennis Leahy post's link as a sample not mine.( I hope , it was an honest mistake not a deliberate one)

Just to clarify this ...

I had to think about that for a moment. But rather than assume it was a mistake I asked, "why did Bill do that?" then I found the answer back in Bill's post. Bill said that the original post had been edited by the user. I just checked and it had been more or less deleted by the user, so Dennis' post that captured it in a quote looks like only place where that post still exists. Which is clearly the one you were referring to about the snakes.

Anyhoo ... back to topic ...






Mod note from Bill: Thanks, that's entirely correct.
:thumbsup:

[Tangri]

I will go into silent after your kindly post and it's supportive thanks by highly respected Moderators , administrators and greetings member, with holding my rights to remind later on suitable post.

"This thread is about immigration, which does not signify racism."

Just last friendly reminder; this thread was for, "TO FIND OUT" why people living Avalon and erasing their post

[Tangri]

... you gave Dennis Leahy post's link as a sample not mine.( I hope , it was an honest mistake not a deliberate one)

Just to clarify this ...

I had to think about that for a moment. But rather than assume it was a mistake I asked, "why did Bill do that?" then I found the answer back in Bill's post. Bill said that the original post had been edited by the user. I just checked and it had been more or less deleted by the user, so Dennis' post that captured it in a quote looks like only place where that post still exists. Which is clearly the one you were referring to about the snakes.

Anyhoo ... back to topic ...






Mod note from Bill: Thanks, that's entirely correct.
:thumbsup:


Did you read her post #204 after editing first one?

[DeDukshyn]

... you gave Dennis Leahy post's link as a sample not mine.( I hope , it was an honest mistake not a deliberate one)

Just to clarify this ...

I had to think about that for a moment. But rather than assume it was a mistake I asked, "why did Bill do that?" then I found the answer back in Bill's post. Bill said that the original post had been edited by the user. I just checked and it had been more or less deleted by the user, so Dennis' post that captured it in a quote looks like only place where that post still exists. Which is clearly the one you were referring to about the snakes.

Anyhoo ... back to topic ...






Mod note from Bill: Thanks, that's entirely correct.
:thumbsup:


Did you read her post #204 after editing first one?

No. Mostly because I don't really care about this specific incident at all. My points were intended to be able to apply broadly . I try to stay out of the details of actual "incidents" themselves on purpose. I digressed a little from that to make the comment on that post. You may have noticed this is my style. I tend to take the more philosophical approach. :)

[Tangri]

... you gave Dennis Leahy post's link as a sample not mine.( I hope , it was an honest mistake not a deliberate one)

Just to clarify this ...

I had to think about that for a moment. But rather than assume it was a mistake I asked, "why did Bill do that?" then I found the answer back in Bill's post. Bill said that the original post had been edited by the user. I just checked and it had been more or less deleted by the user, so Dennis' post that captured it in a quote looks like only place where that post still exists. Which is clearly the one you were referring to about the snakes.

Anyhoo ... back to topic ...





Mod note from Bill: Thanks, that's entirely correct.
:thumbsup:


Did you read her post #204 after editing first one?

No. Mostly because I don't really care about this specific incident at all. My points were intended to be able to apply broadly . I try to stay out of the details actual "incidents" themselves on purpose. I digressed a little from that to make the comment on that post. You may have noticed this is my style. I tend to take the more philosophical approach. :)
Thank you, but my question was used as plural as some one edit your post.

Now I will " tend to take the more philosophical approach"