Windows 7 updates downfall

[mojo]

My recently built system was running along just fine until allowing critical updates to run. The error message received after would not even allow a chance to repair the operating system with the system disk. It had changed my operating system enough that the disk didn't recognize it. When faced with this the only solution is a re-install of the operating system. The Microsoft techs can't solve it now. Even hitting shift F 10 while loading the operating system cant solve the bug so far of not partitioning the drive and use the command prompts to clean the ssd card to partition it still doesn't work. This is something I did not expect from downloading updates and the concern is everyone mentions to keep up to date. I hope this doesn't happen to others. Microsoft elevated my issue and will contact me on monday but their fix earlier didn't work.

[mojo]

The tv broke down last week and still waiting for the part...The computer yesterday... it's really quiet...lol...

[TargeT]

The tv broke down last week and still waiting for the part...The computer yesterday... it's really quiet...lol...

Its a forced technology break! must be time to go hiking or explore somewhere... maybe the universe knew you needed a little motivation ;)

[joeecho]

I reinstalled Windows7 on a fresh hard drive and everything worked fine EXCEPT when I went to update. Don't remember the message now but I did search for a fix and the suggested solution was so convoluted that I gave up for now. I've install/ reinstalled operating systems many times over the last 30 years or more with near zero problems until now. Frustrating to say the least.

I wonder if computers are going the way new vehicles where they have made it harder for backyard mechanic to repair/ replace even basic components.

[norman]

Since around the year 2002 "update" has become code word for "nobble".

Personal computing is already history. That was short and sweet.

[greybeard]

I reinstalled Windows7 on a fresh hard drive and everything worked fine EXCEPT when I went to update. Don't remember the message now but I did search for a fix and the suggested solution was so convoluted that I gave up for now. I've install/ reinstalled operating systems many times over the last 30 years or more with near zero problems until now. Frustrating to say the least.

I wonder if computers are going the way new vehicles where they have made it harder for backyard mechanic to repair/ replace even basic components.


Could I suggest you try UBUNTU ---its possible to run UBUNTU off a disc or usb to try it before you decide to make it permanent--even then you can use both windows and UBUNTU in separate partitions. I use the16.04version.
It comes with Libra Office and most of the software you will need free.
Chris

https://www.ubuntu.com/download

[TargeT]

I wonder if computers are going the way new vehicles where they have made it harder for backyard mechanic to repair/ replace even basic components.

They are easier than ever to repair now hardware wise.. software wise I think it's getting pretty damn easy as well... I have new cars & don't find them hard to work on, in fact its easier to diagnose with all the sensors and onboard computing power.



I reinstalled Windows7 on a fresh hard drive and everything worked fine EXCEPT when I went to update. Don't remember the message now but I did search for a fix and the suggested solution was so convoluted that I gave up for now. I've install/ reinstalled operating systems many times over the last 30 years or more with near zero problems until now. Frustrating to say the least.

I wonder if computers are going the way new vehicles where they have made it harder for backyard mechanic to repair/ replace even basic components.


Could I suggest you try UBUNTU ---its possible to run UBUNTU off a disc or usb to try it before you decide to make it permanent--even then you can use both windows and UBUNTU in separate partitions. I use the16.04version.
It comes with Libra Office and most of the software you will need free.
Chris

https://www.ubuntu.com/download

If your new to linux, unbuntu is a good start, but there's a lot of different linux distro's that are great too, here's a nice list for beginners: http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/which-is-the-best-distro-for-beginners-1213490

I have a thumbdrive with MINT on it, I boot to it every so often for one thing or another.

use windows 7 professional on everything else though.

[enigma3]

I turned off all updates to Windows 7. I did not want them to do an end around and install Windows 10. No problems so far.

[KiwiElf]

I turned off all updates to Windows 7. I did not want them to do an end around and install Windows 10. No problems so far.

Ahhh you read my mind, for when I will inevitably have to reinstall Windows 7 on a newer PC (or Bootcamp on a Mac). Was this a fresh/new install since Windows 10, enigma3?

[TargeT]

I turned off all updates to Windows 7. I did not want them to do an end around and install Windows 10. No problems so far.

Ahhh you read my mind, for when I will inevitably have to reinstall Windows 7 on a newer PC (or Bootcamp on a Mac). Was this a fresh/new install since Windows 10, enigma3?

I've got updates on still, Not sure if they are making updates or not, but if they are i'll take em!

no issues here, this install was done after I tested out windows 10 (it sucks).

[KiwiElf]

Cool; I've had the Updates turned off for at least a couple of years and again no problems at all. It's when I have to reinstall 7 on a new(er) machine that I'm getting worried about, ie there's no way I'm going to install any updates on that either! ;)

[Andre]

My recently built system was running along just fine until allowing critical updates to run. The error message received after would not even allow a chance to repair the operating system with the system disk. It had changed my operating system enough that the disk didn't recognize it. When faced with this the only solution is a re-install of the operating system. The Microsoft techs can't solve it now. Even hitting shift F 10 while loading the operating system cant solve the bug so far of not partitioning the drive and use the command prompts to clean the ssd card to partition it still doesn't work. This is something I did not expect from downloading updates and the concern is everyone mentions to keep up to date. I hope this doesn't happen to others. Microsoft elevated my issue and will contact me on monday but their fix earlier didn't work.

I would be interested to know what Microsoft tells you. Hopefully, they can name the critical update that causes this problem. Since millions of users have Windows 7 installed and are constantly auto updating their OS, it would seem that this issue is related specifically to clean installs from Win 7 disks. In that regard, I'm wondering if you rebooted your new Win 7 installation before you ran critical updates? If you had, perhaps you could have checked other issues before running critical updates? In other words, were there a few things you could have done to avoid the error before running the update, e.g. check for no errors on start up and checking if the bios was up to date.

[joeecho]

I have new cars & don't find them hard to work on, in fact its easier to diagnose with all the sensors and onboard computing power.


I disagree. I will take working on a 1968 Chevrolet Camaro SS over say a 2010 Nissan 370Z any day of the week.




Could I suggest you try UBUNTU ---its possible to run UBUNTU off a disc or usb to try it before you decide to make it permanent--even then you can use both windows and UBUNTU in separate partitions. I use the16.04version.
It comes with Libra Office and most of the software you will need free.
Chris

https://www.ubuntu.com/download

Thanks for the suggestion Chris, that has crossed my mind before and this time I might very well make my jail break from Windows.

[KiwiElf]

Nissan 370Z? I'll stick to my RX8 - (& Macs) - just tip gas & oil in it and floor it! In RX8 parlance - that's a "tuneup/update" :) :P (kidding) ;)

[joeecho]

Nissan 370Z? I'll stick to my RX8 - (& Macs) - just tip gas & oil in it and floor it! In RX8 parlance - that's a "tuneup/update" :) :P (kidding) ;)

I've never owned a 370Z, just helped a friend with his. I did own a 68 Camaro though and over many years replaced just about everything except the engine block.

[KiwiElf]

The 370Z is a VERY expensive beastie to fix. But the good thing about older cars? NO COMPUTERS! Speaking of which, my trusty G4 Mac (2001 vintage) finally died last week; just replaced the power pack from one off a few second-hand ones I've had in storage as spare parts, and it's running again as smooth as a greased... ummm Camaro ? :))

They don't make 'em like that any more! ;)

(A little known Mac/STAR TREK factoid: Before Weta Studios became Weta Studios, they had dozens of G4 Macs networked together as a "Super Computer" to do all their CGI SFX, and originally did all the STAR TREK - THE NEXT GENERATION planet & Star Backgrounds for that series onwards (with earlier Macs & then later ST series, G4's). They didn't get their name in the end credits so they sneaked in what we call in advertising, an "embed". If you look closely at the opening title sequence, a fiery orange Saturn-like planet appears; as it rotates, there is a "landmass" of most of New Zealand ;))

:focus:

[Ewan]

My recently built system was running along just fine until allowing critical updates to run. The error message received after would not even allow a chance to repair the operating system with the system disk. It had changed my operating system enough that the disk didn't recognize it. When faced with this the only solution is a re-install of the operating system. The Microsoft techs can't solve it now. Even hitting shift F 10 while loading the operating system cant solve the bug so far of not partitioning the drive and use the command prompts to clean the ssd card to partition it still doesn't work. This is something I did not expect from downloading updates and the concern is everyone mentions to keep up to date. I hope this doesn't happen to others. Microsoft elevated my issue and will contact me on monday but their fix earlier didn't work.

I came very close to this problem twice following updates that I had no control over, even to the point Windows told me it could not repair the problem. Somehow I managed to force a restore point, sadly don't recall exactly how. I actually posted about them in the Win 10 thread. I finally discovered how to make sure Windows Update never ran again by closing down its permissions.

[Did You See Them]

After a clean install of windows don't bother with usual update method - just google and use the "windows offline updater" - much faster and also ignores those minor updates that causes a lot of problems, After finishing updating this way the other updates will come down without problem with the usual method. It all seems to revolve around the order updates are downloaded and installed. Have had to do this on numerous builds for the last month to avoid problems your talking about.

[TargeT]

there's no way I'm going to install any updates on that either! ;)

I'd advise against that, those updates are there mostly to fix security holes that people know about.

The common approach of a "hacker" will be to check for these vulnerabilities with a tool & if they exist to exploit them (many viruses and worms do the same thing).

So when a bug like Heartbleed (http://heartbleed.com/) wreaks havoc then sort of "goes away" it's because people have patched the hole it was taking advantage of.. but it's still out there working against un-patched systems.

I'm really not sure why you'd turn them off.

[norman]

I'm really not sure why you'd turn them off.



I'll say my 2 cent.

I'm really only bothered about the 'hackers' that work for the same people who pull the strings at Microsoft. All versions of Windows since XP Service pack 2 have been nobbled by these people. Hot fix updates since that time have been a mixture of greater nobbles and customer happy clappy isms.

The entire 'hacking' world is like the entire illegal drug world. They only take out the ones who don't play by their rules.

[TargeT]

The entire 'hacking' world is like the entire illegal drug world. They only take out the ones who don't play by their rules.

Definitely true, but the script kiddies, the ones using "tools" not writing code... those are the ones I have a bit of concern about.

Still, your right, you should be absolutely fine with out any updates (I'd still toss on AV and firewall) & not going to nefarious websites or running software that is randomly emailed to you.


I scan for vulnerabilities, test and install updates on every system in my environment as a part of my job (actually quite a big part of my job). It's rare that I have issues as long as it's running on modern hardware (3years old or newer).

[norman]

... (I'd still toss on AV and firewall) ...



That makes sense for most people but any 'activist' with stuff on their computer that could be troublesome in alternate scenarios might like to consider that AV is a near perfect Trojan Horse for getting deep access to your PC. There are competing AV companies out there still, but Microsoft has just been served notice of a legal challenge for squeezing them out in favor of their own AV "solution".

Another factor that gets swept under the rug as soon as it pops up in the public eye is that all processor chips made in China are at risk (that's putting it mildly) of having back door bootable code built into them. The Android platform is now a well known glass house. I expect they ALL are.

I'm a born again Luddite about these things. I'd rather be forced off line than the alternative. Adobe Flash player has failed to update on my PC since well over 6 months ago. I get the update notices but the process never completes. I use Mixcloud, and they have just launched their new super duper website mechanics. It's all nobbles from wall to wall and my PC system can't even get an audio stream to run on the new platform. Luckily they still have an option to return to the old one, but for how long?

I have a plenty of older hardware ( the guts of about 20 PCs ) and a very early version of WinXP ( pre service pack 1 ) that doesn't require on line activation. That's my benchmark and I'm sticking to it. Setting a system is a long process but I get there in the end. I bought a quite modern PC with Win7 64pro hoping to work out how I could make it take my audio processing capabilities to the next level. I'm stumped for now. It has a RAID array and I haven't yet worked out how to make a cloned drive for it so I never have to worry about online activation if something bad happens and I need to start from scratch. Some good advice for how to make a time capsule clone would be very welcome TargeT ;)

[Lifebringer]

Just took a brisk walk in Texas. Maybe you need to download Microsoft "essentials." Brind and corrects past driver connects. Using grands pc now and had to add it because dufus "bing is loaded with crap." Worth a try to ensure certain stuff doesn't interrupt yer flow. They want you on win 10 now to the point of sneaking it in to gum up the works. Working fine now but before, they threw up bing in front of my default search. Sneaky little darlins, eh?
Out sneak them. I'm programmer from 80's and know there are patches, but they may be bootleg patches also and while sometime I go with company server, but Microsoft stopped win 7 updates. So check well.

[Lifebringer]

me too those old buddies come in handy, I'd check a pawn or thrift store, they're there because most people won't buy an old tried true, but that copy file on a port key, can be reloaded.
Godspeed.

[TargeT]

Some good advice for how to make a time capsule clone would be very welcome TargeT ;)

Lots of options depending on your hardware.

I'm going to assume your familiar with typical backup methods for windows & are looking for "something else".

You could do a P2V (physical to virtual) conversion (https://my.vmware.com/web/vmware/evalcenter?p=converter) and store the .vmdk files on an "offline" disk, I like these better than backups because you can just bring up the .vmdk in vmware player and have quick access to your "time capsule" back up.

Vmware P2v converter (https://my.vmware.com/web/vmware/evalcenter?p=converter) & vmware player (http://www.vmware.com/products/player/playerpro-evaluation.html) are what you'll need, both free & there's a ton of youtube content on Vmware so you can learn a lot about it pretty easily.

This is a "bit for bit" copy, so your going to need a large hard drive, just make sure when you do the p2v conversion that the disks you create are "thin" provisioned not "thick" or "lazy zero", that will save you a ton of space.

[Hervé]

[...]
... Some good advice for how to make a time capsule clone would be very welcome TargeT ;)

No, no, no... I am not Target :)

What I have done, is use something like Paragon (https://www.paragon-software.com/home/pm-express/) to partition disks and then do a "Copy Partition" onto an empty/blank partition on same hard drive or a separate hard drive... works like a charm for a backup snapshot of OS system partition from a specific time.

Things like XXclone (http://www.xxclone.com/) could work too...

[norman]

Does the fact that the system I want to clone is on a pair of drives in RAID array form complicate the issue ?

I've been using Macrium Reflect ( free version) for a couple of years to make exact clones ( IDE PATA single drives ). It's been perfect. I can pull a problem drive and plug in the clone and I'm right back up and running from where I was when I made the clone, and then I can put the problem drive in a USB dock and extract whatever files I still need from it.

[TargeT]

Does the fact that the system I want to clone is on a pair of drives in RAID array form complicate the issue ?

I've been using Macrium Reflect ( free version) for a couple of years to make exact clones ( IDE PATA single drives ). It's been perfect. I can pull a problem drive and plug in the clone and I'm right back up and running from where I was when I made the clone, and then I can put the problem drive in a USB dock and extract whatever files I still need from it.

Simple answer:
Vmware doesn't care what your converting, I use it at work on servers that have large complicated raid arrays. (the real answer is more complex, but not really relevant to this situation)


this is a "software" way to clone your entire system, similar to what you used to do with IDE drives, but easier & more efficient since you can boot strait from your clone any time you want, even run the clone and real computer at the same time to compare differences etc.. ;)

[KiwiElf]

there's no way I'm going to install any updates on that either! ;)

I'd advise against that, those updates are there mostly to fix security holes that people know about.

The common approach of a "hacker" will be to check for these vulnerabilities with a tool & if they exist to exploit them (many viruses and worms do the same thing).

So when a bug like Heartbleed (http://heartbleed.com/) wreaks havoc then sort of "goes away" it's because people have patched the hole it was taking advantage of.. but it's still out there working against un-patched systems.

I'm really not sure why you'd turn them off.

Easy answer: have never trusted MS or Windows, and it was a Windows Update that actually screwed my PC (the svchost for the updater went nuts and was permanently ON, taking up 50% of the processor and turning everything into a slideshow - it is a known XP fault and not fixable without a complete reinstall minus that particular update). The IT team cleaned it up and just said turn the auto update OFF, avoid dodgy websites (I do), and make sure I've got a really good Virus Protection proggy (I do). Since then it's been great! (Dedicated PC running XP, & Windows 7 on the MacBook Pro Bootcamp partition). My work stuff for graphic design is almost exclusively on the Macs and never had any probs with those.

[Basho]

I'm with you Norman. I used to work in IT & was a techie. Now I just have an older HP laptop running MacOs(hackintosh), which I hardly turn on anymore. Just use my second generation ipad or iphone to browse the web.

My life is much more free & easy now without the tech BS in my life that I wasted so much energy on. I plan on continuing on this minimal tech path. Going to switch to Linux when the need comes for a new machine. Macs are no different to windows machines now. Lots of unecessary headaches lol

[norman]

VM ware is totally new to me so it looks like I've got some learning to do, thanks T_T.

[Carmody]

me too those old buddies come in handy, I'd check a pawn or thrift store, they're there because most people won't buy an old tried true, but that copy file on a port key, can be reloaded.
Godspeed.

I go to places like reycycling drop off locations for electronic waste, People drop off their old PC's. Eventually one can have every version key in as many platforms as they may want. Just take home the side panel (with the key sticker) of the given stripped and ready to be desiccated desktop chassis, and it's probably all good. One can gather dozens (to hundreds, over time) of valid keys in that manner.

Around here, the recycling places are closed on weekends, and the stuff just piles up in the given lot or bin, and it is near to being the least desirable in the given scrap pile. Keys can sit there by the 10's by the given busy Sunday. Laptops, desktops, even the odd mac desktop and laptop. It's a nice warm weekend where I'm at, so the prediction is the pile will be middling to large.

To get my hands on the cleanest best version of the given OS I may choose, I go to the biggest independent PC shop in town, where they sell copies of the given best working version, with the best updates... for $10.

[TargeT]

VM ware is totally new to me so it looks like I've got some learning to do, thanks T_T.

its very "approachable".

I'm the VMware guy at my shop, been working with it for over a decade if you have any questions feel free to hit me up ;)


VMware (and tech like it) is what most of industry is running on these days.

I have 1 physical machine that is running 40 "virtual" servers (and it probably could run over 200, we are small though).

You want to see complicated headache tech? haha here's my server:
http://image.slidesharecdn.com/citrixday2015nuantix-150304072331-conversion-gate01/95/customer-case-citrix-et-nutanix-16-638.jpg

its actually 4 independant servers inside 1 case, they share the same bus so everything happens super fast and it's 10gig connections on the back end.

This thing almost cost as much as my house... (thank you tax payers)