'Flat Earth' Psychological Operations

[Omni]

deleted:::

[Bill Ryan]

.
Yep, excellent analysis. :thumbsup: See also this thread...


Flat Earth Idea - Why so popular? (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?89423-Flat-Earth-Idea-Why-so-popular)

... in which it was discussed intelligently by many members why on earth (sorry!) this gross idiocy -- which is what it is -- was suddenly raising its very silly head.

[Clear Light]

Ah, I've said this before (though not here on Avalon) but why don't all the FE believers simply pool their money together and charter a plane to see what happens when they reach the "edge" of *their* World ... because then they'd have (or not more likely) incontrovertible video evidence / photographic proof of their *claims* eh ?

[norman]

Don't expect this problem to go away, as long as the current regime are in power.

"Flat Earth" might have been comical and will go away but what their people have learned from it won't go away. It will come back in another form.

Well, unless they and all their shenanigans are overtaken by events.

[dim]

https://scontent-amt2-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/sh0.08/e35/p750x750/15099605_541410059401937_3329679890214551552_n.jpg?ig_cache_key=MTM5MTUzNDQ3NDgzMTE3MjA2MA%3D%3D.2

https://www.instagram.com/p/BNPuTtxBZHc/

[DarMar]

I am right, they are wrong is biggest implanted thought in reality we live. And in it's form is one of most dangerous to live in.
As we are living in this together, one stepping on others toe is just slowing progress, nothing else it does. Constant fight of day and night, red vs blue + vs - , plane vs globe holds person in locked thought. How can I prove my point is thought through the day.
And some of them can't wait end revelation so they can say "see, I told you so".
Curent dogma is biased rather towards choosing of offered opinions than created ones. So they can keep thoughts locked and in control and they are we. We like to hold things under our control it is also implanted by design in this enclosed reality we live in.
Is it really a sphere or is it a plane? Well to one's surprise it is none and both in same time. It really is how we choose to be. And do we really choose or we are fed with it until stage of over weight and inability to move and process our own?

See Tv is dead for most persons, many of them would proudly announce: "I'm not watching TV since..." but in same time can't get off youtube for days, in actuality it is the same crap over and over again. But we somehow choose it to be different.
It is because those in control are really, really smart and somehow manage to be at least two steps forward. We should never underestimate them and information/medium they are offering to us.
They know secret of life, sin (sinusoid) and that everything alive is moving, up and down, constant is death. So changing mask of same thing is what they/we do as far as we are born into it.

0,1% of flat earth videos on tube has it's stand points and beliefs, 99,9% are total repost of the same, repeated until boredom. Maybe you noticed how they did not created their belief by experience/knowledge but rather accepting offered truth?
Same goes for globers, simply following occult nasa/nazi guidance. Crowley and Parkinson school of occult imprinted on daily based scheme.
Those people are dangerous as they can obviously influence masses a they do. Masses are gimbal-locked, and that's sad. Saddest part is that is not magic, but rather trickery and illusion.
However you think flat earth contradictory opposition is nothing new and happens through time every now and than, comes in many aspects and forms. And is not here to discredit one branch of illusion, and not aimed towards discrediting cornspiracy. It is natural process of ups and downs, casts shadow on overall picture, can be pierced and understood if not standing in firm ground.
That force is not here to destroy you, because it can not, it is here to keep you locked in constant fight, in that way you/we produce motion/energy. That energy is used to manifest controlled state of reality, as simple as adding wood to fire to keep it burning.

In that sense I would not spend my energy to explain FE person that world is globe because it asks for lot of energy, and on end we did nothing but just s-witched poles to opposite of the same. After that we can continue to feel empty inside and search for more of the different-same.
I highly admire this perpetum mobile which is implanted in our core tbh. Seems endless and sometimes even hopeless, but luckily it is not magical like that, rather illusory trickery.
People who control most of it are aware of sacrifices and present to us all kind of sacrificial forms. But one ordinary Joe have barely will to sacrifice anything, and because of fear of loss to false identity he is kept locked in his safe zone, never learning power of experience.

I really intuitively feel that veil can be pierced by understanding and effort, and through that crack light can shine more obviously to percept and experience it rather than theorise fantasies.
I really feel that people on this forum platform are slowly but surely experiencing being overfed with trickery like nibiru, aliens, councils, grandmasters, leaders, followers, theories, kennedy, areas, fake ufo pictures/videos and such. Yes some of them are real, you can swear on it.. just don't sweat to it too much, is friendly advice.

As we can witness imprint is timeless, so i will just leave this here to be.


Stay sharp.

[LivioRazlo]

"I would rather have questions for which there are no answers than have answers that can't be questioned."

If FE'ers are so horribly wrong and ignorant, why do those of you continuously attack and berate any discussion of the subject?

Is it because your eyes might possibly be opened to truths which you conveniently suppressed because your ego couldn't handle it?

This forum is becoming far from the nexus of "science and spirituality" that it touts itself as.

[Bill Ryan]

"I would rather have questions for which there are no answers than have answers that can't be questioned."

If FE'ers are so horribly wrong and ignorant, why do those of you continuously attack and berate any discussion of the subject?

Is it because your eyes might possibly be opened to truths which you conveniently suppressed because your ego couldn't handle it?

This forum is becoming far from the nexus of "science and spirituality" that it touts itself as.

There's nothing to discuss.

But WHY the meme is being introduced, is interesting.

[Nick Matkin]

Mysterious Universe recently had a podcast explaining why Russia is behind many of the social media memes and how it's using social media (in particular) so sow doubt and discordance in the general populace. (Here: http://mysteriousuniverse.org/2016/12/16-21-mu-podcast/ first 10 minutes or so. More info about this aspect of fake news here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/russian-propaganda-effort-helped-spread-fake-news-during-election-experts-say/2016/11/24/793903b6-8a40-4ca9-b712-716af66098fe_story.html?utm_term=.b20cd87612a5)

No doubt there will be those who suggest it's being made to look like Russia is behind this, but the evidence suggests Russia really is.

[Maia Gabrial]

"I would rather have questions for which there are no answers than have answers that can't be questioned."

If FE'ers are so horribly wrong and ignorant, why do those of you continuously attack and berate any discussion of the subject?

Is it because your eyes might possibly be opened to truths which you conveniently suppressed because your ego couldn't handle it?

This forum is becoming far from the nexus of "science and spirituality" that it touts itself as.

Good point LivioRazlo. Mockery IS one of the ways that's used to silence someone who questions when the facts don't add up. And not just FE theory....

I've been mocked here on the forum for presenting some things I thought were interesting about the FE theory. Bill Ryan leads the charge most of the time against me. No offense, Bill, but you do that....

What I don't understand is why people believe the things they're told by the so called "experts" who don't always tell the truth. In school, I learned that in the olden days that the popular belief was that the Earth was flat. It wasn't that they were ignorant. Because it's all programming and not questioning. These days, intelligent people with scientific knowledge have questioned the earth model. Haven't you ever felt that something you heard didn't sound right and you just wanted to hear the truth? It's not just the shape of the planet either....

Has anyone, besides the astronauts EVER seen the Earth from outside the atmosphere? Wouldn't it be great if we at least knew what the shape of our own planet was without deception? The head of NASA said that it's pear-shaped, but the current shots showed it was still round....
I'm hearing a lie....

I know that if one of those off-worlders took me on a craft and showed me the truth, THEN and only THEN would I accept that it's round.... :becky:

[joeecho]

Scientific certainty is a god to those that believe it's infallibility, however, look at how many times that god of scientific certainty has been crushed over the centuries and yet people trust it religiously.

Don't attempt to undermine people's god, 'god forbid'.

A god built on apparent scientific certainty is like a Jenga tower. The game is designed to collapse, the only suspense is how long that (scientific) knowledge of the game keeps it going.

JENGA!

[Humanbean]

However tempting it is to denigrate and dismiss the outlandish claims of the flatearthers as the musings of idiots, fired up by a psyop operation devised to dis-rail a growing threat from the "conspiracy community", I personally am treading a little lighter these days when it comes to how I treat flatearth proponents. The trouble is, there are anomalies that they have seized upon which are genuinely baffling and "they" are often obviously intelligent and well educated professionals; sometimes pilots, sometimes radar operators, sometimes world shipping agents and employees, all genuinely confused by the data they are receiving in relation to the world model they understand to be true. This doesn't mean the world is flat nor that all these people might not be in the pay of the intelligence agencies and their dastardly plot. But some of the "proofs" are easily tested for yourself and the results can leave you scratching your head a bit. So plot or not, I have found value in their research, especially if you can remain blinkered to the implications in order to keep your sanity. And I have to say that they seem in many cases to be a most practical and pro-active bunch, climbing mountains to find 3 equal elevations in a row where the most distant should be hidden by the curve but is exactly in line with the first two. Firing a laser at a boat that is out of sight to the eye, apparently because of the curve of the earth, but on the boat itself the laser is apparent. I myself am an ex-private pilot and I was never taught, nor ever needed to adjust my attitude indicator to compensate for the fact I was flying over a curve, but by not adjusting it I should have been for ever gaining altitude as the gyroscope inside always maintains a attitude parallel to an imaginary flat plane. Nor was I ever taught to consider the coriolis effect during my navigation exams, which surely must come into effect when plotting a course, particularly when flying North/South. Also with the curvature of the earth being 8”per mile squared, I seem to be able to see way further than I should, just as the aforementioned radar operator said he could see objects 50miles away at sea level on his military radar and was a bit stumped by that too. Anyway I know this isn’t the thread for proofs and I don’t know what these anomalies are proof of, but they do seem to exist and are not just planted mis-direction. There’s a level of this that does have the giant whiff of a planted meme about it, but if it is, it’s the most exquisite work, because the more you look, the more you see. Right, I’ve got to stop this before I start down that hole again…surely the equatorial bulge caused by the earth’s spin should be where the water ends up, why so much land! Why can’t we feel the difference in centrifugal force between travelling 1000mile an hour at the equator and close to zero at the poles? Right, I’ve got to go, there are a couple of fellas in white coats at the door.

[provolon]

SO EARTH IS NOT FLAT???? just kidding... JUST KIDDING!!!!!

[norman]

There are 2 things in the alt' scene that I have trouble being kind about.

1) Flat Earthery

2) Pathetic mesmerizing youtube videos of absolute camera abuse and the chronically ill informed tripe the makers spout about what they see in the results.

Both cause me to get very close to personally abusive outburst.

[Sunny-side-up]

I do like the OP image though.
I haven't seen this representation before.
Not 'Flat-Earth' image but the lower half of a 'Torus' looking like a 'Roulette Wheel'
So we have 'Roulette-Earth'
What ever the shape of our Earth (Egg-Globe) this game is all rigged in the masters favour hehe

[Nick Matkin]

I'm pretty sure most of us on here understand why the Earth is not flat. This is not a matter of opinion - really it isn't.

Nevertheless there still might be one or two doubters. If so, please just watch this short video. It covers stuff of which you may have no knowledge.

If anyone still feels the need to unpick it point by point, please feel free to do so.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgY8zNZ35uw

[Hervé]

Why can’t we feel the difference in centrifugal force between travelling 1000mile an hour at the equator and close to zero at the poles?"We" don't, unless the transition is done in a very short period of time... like with getting one's "sea legs (http://www.marineinsight.com/life-at-sea/what-does-the-term-get-your-sea-legs-means/)" which works both ways: when getting on board and sailing and when getting off onto solid ground... but the folks who design and build "Cosmodromes" have a tendency to build them as close to the equator as possible in order to escape the exorbitant cost in rocket fuel it would take to get a Saturn V off the ground from, say, Alert (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alert,_Nunavut); rather than some Canaveral launch site.

[ThePythonicCow]

Why can’t we feel the difference in centrifugal force between travelling 1000mile an hour at the equator and close to zero at the poles?"We" don't, unless the transition is done in a very short period of time... like with getting one's "sea legs (http://www.marineinsight.com/life-at-sea/what-does-the-term-get-your-sea-legs-means/)" which works both ways: when getting on board and sailing and when getting off onto solid ground... but the folks who design and build "Cosmodromes" have a tendency to build them as close to the equator as possible in order to escape the exorbitant cost in rocket fuel it would take to get a Saturn V off the ground from, say, Alert (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alert,_Nunavut); rather than some Canaveral launch site.

From that hallmark of honest science, NASA (http://image.gsfc.nasa.gov/poetry/ask/a11511.html):
The effective acceleration of gravity at the poles is 980.665 cm/sec/sec while at the equator it is 3.39 cm/sec/sec less due to the centrifugal force. If you weighed 100 pounds at the north pole on a spring scale, at the equator you would weigh 99.65 pounds, or 5.5 ounces less.
If you drink a 5.5 ounce (156 gm) glass of water, to you feel substantially heavier? I don't.

The primary downward force you're feeling, if you are freely standing at any point on the earth's surface, is gravity, and that force is about the same everywhere on the earth's surface.

Variations in centrifugal force are small in comparison.

[Atlas]

@14:17: "Because scientists are convinced the Earth itself is hollow .... sorry .... because scientists are convinced the Earth is solid, they then reach the conclusion that all the planets must be solid. [...] That is an important realization which I came to, that either all the planets are solid or all are hollow. If some were solid and others were hollow, then astronomers would have noticed this a long time ago."
_nIOEkBNBKI

[Bill Ryan]

.
This thread is about Flat Earth Psychological Operations. (Psy-ops, for short.) That's well worth discussing. It's in the 'Mind Control' section.

If one can't see or understand the enormous mountain of evidence that's totally in-one's-face available that the Earth is [more or less*] spherical, as are the sun, the moon, and all the other stars and planets, a fact that can simply be seen by anyone through any telescope, or even a good pair of binoculars (and Maia Gabriel: the 'Ancients' -- who were pretty smart -- knew the Earth was round over 2,200 years ago: all they had to do was look at eclipses and figure out what the shadow geometry must be, and do a few clever experiments (http://khanacademy.org/partner-content/big-history-project/solar-system-and-earth/knowing-solar-system-earth/a/eratosthenes-of-cyrene)) -- then please take yourself elsewhere. I do mean that.

Or, read some books, learn very basic physics and very basic astronomy, and then come back and start again.

The really interesting question is what's going on so that a few people who are, or should be, as smart as the Greeks were, can't come to the conclusions that the Greeks did. (But then, the Greeks didn't have the internet. :facepalm: They actually studied nature, which they could see, and read books, and did math for themselves.)




* 'More or less', because of course it's not a perfect solid-billiard-ball sphere. The Earth is a kind of slightly bumpy oblate spheroid. (Meaning, there's a slight centrifugal bulge at the equator.) Some of you who may be interested in really finding out more can have fun looking that up. Here's (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/earth-is-not-round/) one place to start. :)

[Hervé]

[...]
Variations in centrifugal force are small in comparison.
Right... I was thinking "Escape velocity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_velocity)"...


The escape velocity relative to the surface of a rotating body depends on direction in which the escaping body travels. For example, as the Earth's rotational velocity is 465 m/s at the equator (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equator), a rocket launched tangentially from the Earth's equator to the east requires an initial velocity of about 10.735 km/s relative to Earth to escape whereas a rocket launched tangentially from the Earth's equator to the west requires an initial velocity of about 11.665 km/s relative to Earth. The surface velocity decreases with the cosine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trigonometric_function) of the geographic latitude, so space launch facilities are often located as close to the equator as feasible, e.g. the American Cape Canaveral (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Canaveral_Air_Force_Station) (latitude 28°28' N) and the French Guiana Space Centre (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guiana_Space_Centre) (latitude 5°14' N).

:focus:

[Humanbean]

Yeah just found a calculator for centrifugal acceleration, turns out there's a minus 0.00346 g effect at the equator.


Why can’t we feel the difference in centrifugal force between travelling 1000mile an hour at the equator and close to zero at the poles?"We" don't, unless the transition is done in a very short period of time... like with getting one's "sea legs (http://www.marineinsight.com/life-at-sea/what-does-the-term-get-your-sea-legs-means/)" which works both ways: when getting on board and sailing and when getting off onto solid ground... but the folks who design and build "Cosmodromes" have a tendency to build them as close to the equator as possible in order to escape the exorbitant cost in rocket fuel it would take to get a Saturn V off the ground from, say, Alert (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alert,_Nunavut); rather than some Canaveral launch site.

From that hallmark of honest science, NASA (http://image.gsfc.nasa.gov/poetry/ask/a11511.html):
The effective acceleration of gravity at the poles is 980.665 cm/sec/sec while at the equator it is 3.39 cm/sec/sec less due to the centrifugal force. If you weighed 100 pounds at the north pole on a spring scale, at the equator you would weigh 99.65 pounds, or 5.5 ounces less.
If you drink a 5.5 ounce (156 gm) glass of water, to you feel substantially heavier? I don't.

The primary downward force you're feeling, if you are freely standing at any point on the earth's surface, is gravity, and that force is about the same everywhere on the earth's surface.

Variations in centrifugal force are small in comparison.

[Omni]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BNPuTtxBZHc/

Thank You dim, that helps a lot. I have added the image to my website article.

[bluestflame]

microcosm macrocosm , cells of the body right down to atoms protons neutrons orbits

[DarMar]

Will try again.
Thought this topic is discussion about how FE psyop can and does influence "classical" conspiracy. It shortly turned into proving roundness/flatness of why's and dont's.
I would suggest that it is not the case.
can be proven because conspiracy usually does not discredit other conspiracy just like that, it rather just shifts perspective. Look at 9/11 or nibiru or any other ones. General conspiracy population are in constant search and new "evidence" rises on daily basis. As new evidence has been acquired, belief just get shifted to another side of the same.
Sometimes new beliefs get washed out and there is probability that old belief gets more supportive evidence, so one shifts back to old one.
Trick is simple... just keep it in constant motion as i stated earlier in post.

I will try and describe every point of why it could be psyop, in order to break that cord which ties and holds us to think freely.
Really if you dislike sardina fish taste, and other person adores it. He tells you how wonderfull taste it has, but you can not even smell it.. Believe it or not he is not send to discredit your taste nor belief, you both are FREE to coexist with completely different opinions. Yes, yes it is same as smoker and non smoker, vegan and meat eater. One always thinks/does what is best for him. And you can never change his belief no matter what, ONLY one who can change that is SELF and no one else.
So sending emissary to change your belief is complete nonsense. He can talk to you, he can try but acceptance comes from one place only ALWAYS.
Can it be manipulated, of course as we can witness in lot of cases, but ignorance is mother of manipulation, father is fear.

From some of my posts one can maybe conclude that I'm Fe person, but far from that.. Not either FE not globe, just simply aware that sword has two edges and both are part of the same.Trying to point at fact that both are illusion in order to understand further level of this dream state which we call awake state (life).
In coma while his spirit is absent:
- one visits jesus
- one sees universe of geometric space of cubes spheres and piramids
- one visits heaven/hell
- one visits aliens
- one visits distant worlds
- one experiences vibration of colors
- one just empty white space and other black space
- one rises above earth and sees it as a globe
- one rises above infinite plane

Who of them is right, who is wrong and why?
And who are we really to judge?

personal experience is what makes us different, one love big ass chicks, other small ass chicks. It simple is like that.


The Flat Earth Psy Op:


• Day and Night Happen Simultaneously in Different Time Zones

- same is on FE model, tbh it is EXACT the same if you convert it to spherical coordinates https://wiki.tfes.org/images/thumb/7/70/SunAnimation.gif/300px-SunAnimation.gif


• Flat Earth Sun Models are Completely Contrived

- this is biased opinion because each side states same the same. I find magical coincidence that sun is bigger than moon and is so much far away to apear in same size. Taking into point that one shines warm, other cold colors... redish/bluish, and on sight are same size, same moving patterns would rather propose intelligent design than accidental positioning.sizing happened through some kind of stellar explosion.


• Do Flat Earth Lunar and Solar Eclipse Models make any sense at all?

- Yes, lot more than spherical "coincidental" ones


• Eratosthenes' Calculation of Earth's Circumference would not work in a Flat Earth Model[1]

- are you sure? how sure are you?
https://s18.postimg.org/5gr8y9tcp/ERISTOTEL_DREAM2.jpg
Eratosthenes was suposedly living in ancient greek, do we live in ancient greek?
How do we know he said what he said?
We can read about it in books, hear in schools, that source is well known and on purpose biased.


• All Planets in our Solar System / the Sun are Spherical

Haumea would not agree with you
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/90/2003EL61art.jpg/220px-2003EL61art.jpg
and that is just a spect in a spectre.


• The Cosmos is Full of Spherical Objects

and tons of other shapes too
http://i.stack.imgur.com/rBOjx.jpg


• A Spherical Atmosphere Has Been Proven to Me, as I have witnessed a large asteroid fly in and out of the atmosphere

- Atmosphere contains decent amount of water, the further you see, the more through water you look. Water has property called refraction, it BENDS light so you can freely see curved motion even in completely flat atmosphere.
http://astar.tv/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/negative_refraction.jpg
http://sciencelearn.org.nz/var/sciencelearn/storage/images/contexts/light-and-sight/sci-media/video/refraction/668954-1-eng-NZ/Refraction.jpg




• Balloons can take a video camera up into the Earths Upper Atmosphere

- yes they can



• Fish Eye is not a Legible Explanation for the Full Curve Witnessed

and what is? did you know that ALL lenses have distortion? it is common knowledge among photography/video editing.


• I have Caught Flat Earth Videos with Proven Lies with Simple Fact Checking

- Me too, but i have never seen so much as in globers agenda. It is much powerful organisation, well estabilished in baal/ball (sun god) model, from craddle to the grave. Most of sports are based on chasing the ball too.. except fighting ones wich are happening in round or cubical cage. Says alot.


• Proven Liar: Math Boylan saying a Moon of Mars is "Opipapa" in his flat earth presentation

- proven liar and money gatherer is also Billy Carson yet somehow you decided to endorse him. see below for more detailed


• Motive: Flat Earth is Worse for Credibility than nearly any other Belief

Really? You mean more than praying mantis bug mom and dad?
More than little gray man autopsy?
More than there are certain group of people controlling us while we are the ones which surrender to their guidance FREELY. Giving them credit to do so and much of energy time and money.
Nah.. you give it too much credibility.


• Motive: CIA & Co-Conspirators have an Agenda to Discredit Conspiracy Truths and Conspiracy Aware People - What does Flat Earth do? Flat Earthers are completely discredited to the point of being effective eugenics hits, and conspiracy aware people are discredited by association

Flat earther breeds same air, living on same planet, he is nor above nor below your standpoint. We are all in same ****. Both sides are guided inteli-gently.
I have never heard that alien council agenda crap discredit them. Why so much directed energy towards help me i'm wounded by them? I never heard any FE person says that classical conspiracy is there to discredit them, yet in other way around it is praised.


• Motive: Predictive Programming related to this new surge of flat earth material must include a demographic of people that now negatively associate irrational beliefs to general conspiracy aware people (i.e. Several Motives have been established)

Predictive programming is big theme, it is implanted on every level in every day since birth on this planet. Through schooling, movies, commercials, music.. EVERYTHING. EVERY conspiracy theory is also in that pocket, 9-11 is well known predictive programing just to number one of those. They are all implanted to generate and maintain low negative vibration, and must admit does it's jobe well.


• Motive: Who does this surge in flat earth material tangibly benefit? It discredits conspiracy truths, so obviously it benefits those involved in a global conspiracy

It is a grain in desert. Who really does benefit all conspiracy material, not just FE.


• Method: Electromagnetic Mind Control Augments Psychological Operations

- I'm immune to that stuff, can be proven. So can everyone else be, simply by choice.


• Method: Electronic Control Grid can make a Concept Viral (and I believe did with flat earth)

- So can by any other factor also by choice.


--------------------------------

So i saw that Billy Carson aka 4biddenknowledge image posted, and againg sensed same as we are try to discuss here: attack.
For a starter that image is fakery:
https://s4.postimg.org/qrmszcqvx/edited_2.jpg

red circled 1 and 2 are different resolution and different compression.
number 2 is original part of image and circled number 1 is another (later edited)..
so in that manner i can do next:
https://s11.postimg.org/xxkty34r7/edited_1.jpg

How much about viable proof is some digital picture?
Well Billy is business man, he earns so much money on stuff he does through sites he does. It is his well living with that not our better. You can dig him all day through scam report sites, and you will bump into his name a lot.
He earns MILLIONS on selling crap, and when i say crap i mean crap. Fairytales.

Why are fairytales important? well there is very imaginative and creative type of humans and you know how he calls them? TARGETED AUDIENCE
And his pocket is "ka-ching"

Get it?
Who discredit who and for which benefit?
Get it?

You know which is difference between you and Billy C.?
You are creative person, among many things CREATING songs.
He sells created songs by others (he owns dicography).

You are searching truth.
He is offering truth.

I feel that is most important thing that person builds/destroys beliefs by self only rather than following/copying.
This post is not here to destroy anyone belief, it is rather here to point at how same both sides are.
Rest goes and depends on individual will as all in this universe.
We create, we direct, we manipulate, we acquire.
To say someone else is doing that for us is simply giving power away.

Really no FE can discredit and disempower you and your/our community.
We should not be in fear of them.
Really.

[Foxie Loxie]

@ Atlas......thanks for posting the Jan Lamprecht video! :clapping: This is why I LOVE Avalon; one can be exposed to ideas one would not normally think of! I found it most interesting that scientists found radiation from Chernobyl at the South Pole 2 1/2 years after it had happened! I must listen to this one again! :thumbsup:

[Omni]

Sorry DarMar, I'm not going to be enticed into a flat earth debate. If you want to believe the earth is flat that is fine. I can find all sorts of holes in your reasoning but I have better things to do than spend the next 30 minutes picking your post apart.

[onawah]

How many times does flat earth theory have to be shown as nonsense?
A waste of Avalon space.

[Bill Ryan]

How many times does flat earth theory have to be shown as nonsense?
A waste of Avalon space.

Yes. This isn't what this thread is about. 'Flat-Earthism' is a psy-op, very likely carefully introduced, or at least quietly encouraged, to discredit the alternative community.


'Fake news', anyone?

The moderators will defend the credibility and reputation of the forum from being discredited in this way. But discussing WHY this is so comparatively prevalent now is a very relevant topic, to better understand the climate of these sometimes confusing times.

It's about the proliferation of bad information, fueled by those who, maybe for no fault of their own, don't have a good enough background in very basic science or astronomy to understand what they're reading, hearing, or saying.

The mods (and most members!) have absolutely no problem with smart but non-scientific people who are genuinely confused, want to understand, and ask good questions. We're all here to help everyone if we can. But when someone is belligerent and defiant (and, with that, there's always a kind of 'I-know-better' arrogance), it presents a different problem.

[joeecho]

When is a 'PsyOps actually a CounterPsyOps? When one proceed no further because they believe it's a PsyOps and they are better then that.

As an example though not to be construed as fact, what if one day it was discovered that extraterrestrial observations were created by far advanced terrestrial entity/ activity and that it is all a psyops prep for a future event to "influence their emotions, motives, and objective reasoning, and ultimately the behavior of governments, organizations, groups, and individuals." Wouldn't it be the perfect coup de grâce to a one world government? Should we so easily dismiss that psyops possibility because we are near certain that extraterrestrials exist because of all the 'evidence'?

Am I CERTAIN of any of it either way? No. And neither does anyone else have to. Believe what you want to, believe what you can.

Keep an open mind, it's the close mind, on any subject, that is the most primed for mind control.

[Bill Ryan]

When is a 'PsyOps actually a CounterPsyOps? When one proceed no further because they believe it's a PsyOps and they are better then that.

As an example though not to be construed as fact, what if one day it was discovered that extraterrestrial observations were created by far advanced terrestrial entity/ activity and that it is all a psyops prep for a future event to "influence their emotions, motives, and objective reasoning, and ultimately the behavior of governments, organizations, groups, and individuals." Wouldn't it be the perfect coup de grâce to a one world government? Should we so easily dismiss that psyops possibility because we are near certain that extraterrestrials exist because of all the 'evidence'?

Am I CERTAIN of any of it either way? No. And neither does anyone else have to. Believe what you want to, believe what you can.

Keep an open mind, it's the close mind, on any subject, that is the most primed for mind control.

That's a complicated way of saying you're content to remain confused.

Certainty about some key things is healthy and valuable. Or else, you're in a swampy personal quicksand about everything.

The key is to apply logic and analysis and smart data-gathering to HELP and SUPPORT you to be personally certain.

Or else, you stand for absolutely nothing.

[joeecho]

When is a 'PsyOps actually a CounterPsyOps? When one proceed no further because they believe it's a PsyOps and they are better then that.

As an example though not to be construed as fact, what if one day it was discovered that extraterrestrial observations were created by far advanced terrestrial entity/ activity and that it is all a psyops prep for a future event to "influence their emotions, motives, and objective reasoning, and ultimately the behavior of governments, organizations, groups, and individuals." Wouldn't it be the perfect coup de grâce to a one world government? Should we so easily dismiss that psyops possibility because we are near certain that extraterrestrials exist because of all the 'evidence'?

Am I CERTAIN of any of it either way? No. And neither does anyone else have to. Believe what you want to, believe what you can.

Keep an open mind, it's the close mind, on any subject, that is the most primed for mind control.

That's a complicated way of saying you're content to remain confused.

Certainty about some key things is healthy and valuable. Or else, you're in a swampy personal quicksand about everything.

The key is to apply logic and analysis and smart data-gathering to HELP and SUPPORT you to be personally certain.

Or else, you stand for absolutely nothing.

That is only a perspective and thus limited in scope but by all means hold on to that notion if it works for you. Just know your vehicle has a gear you might not be aware, though, should you discover it, give it a whirl, it might surprise you what it can do.

For many, their "logic and analysis and smart data-gathering" is within a closed system and until they see that their "logic and analysis and smart data-gathering" will be rock solid to them and those who see the same.

A man will declares himself free until he meets the wall.

[norman]

Is there such a thing as Law of Repulsion ?

I always feel that I'm having my head messed with when I pay attention to anything like a Flat Earth youtube video. Just on that basis alone, I know I need to get out of there.

[Bill Ryan]

For many, their "logic and analysis and smart data-gathering" is within a closed system and until they see that their "logic and analysis and smart data-gathering" will be rock solid to them and those who see the same.

A man will declares himself free until he meets the wall.

Well, good luck! You may just find yourself blowing like a loose balloon in the wind.

One should apply logic and analysis and smart data-gathering. That's what distinguishes humans from other animals. :)

And it's a continuous feedback process. You don't do it just once. It's ongoing, like making decisions when driving down the highway, or flying a plane, or even just cooking a meal for your family.

But if you don't make those decisions, you risk driving off the road into the ditch. Or falling over when trying to walk. You have to have a number of certainties.

Reaching those certainties well (and the key word is well) -- is what defines intelligence.

To keep an 'open mind' about something as simple (and easy to figure out) as this is NOT intelligence of any kind. It's a red flag revealing a serious degree of personal confusion.

[bluestflame]

something about trees and fruit , i think it's being used to play on a distortion of " cognitive dissonance" cos there's still many that have thier own perception of exactly what that is , is playing on the fact peoples NATURAL reaction to reject it , trying to get us to deny and reject our own intuition

[ulli]

There is a world of fantasy, and the power of imagination is very real. We can enter it in dreams or trance states.
Unfortunately some can get trapped there and thus can never find real common ground with others, unless it is in the context of decrying the generally agreed-upon paradigm.
But it can never offer a map, at least not one that can be relied upon by all. Consensus there becomes impossible. It would also deny the existence of the five senses.
Meanwhile a person who has their basic sensual faculties functioning doesn't need to deny the existence of a sixth sense experience.

[joeecho]

Everyone walks their own dogma but some think they walk the biggest baddest dogma in town until...


Your perception of me is a reflection of you; my reaction to you is an awareness of me.

http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv229/Moodester/einstein-relativity.jpg

:focus:

[Verdilac]

There is a world of fantasy, and the power of imagination is very real. We can enter it in dreams or trance states.
Unfortunately some can get trapped there and thus can never find real common ground with others, unless it is in the context of decrying the generally agreed-upon paradigm.
But it can never offer a map, at least not one that can be relied upon by all. Consensus there becomes impossible. It would also deny the existence of the five senses.
Meanwhile a person who has their basic sensual faculties functioning doesn't need to deny the existence of a sixth sense experience.

You know something ulli, I loved what you wrote. I think the problem a lot of people may be having is there is nobody to bounce theories off in person & to come up with other angles of approach that would start things like fact finding missions, adventures & shared study. The disconnect may be happening because we are sat behind screens. This isn't a full communication experience for many people as it just doesn't give some what they need to learn, or come to conclusions they can trust 100%.
And so when something else comes along that sounds exiting or different they change there opinion rapidly, even if they had a good basic grasp on some fundamental principals in the first place, that have served them well and helped them to realise a lot of things.

I know I'm not alone in saying that some of us on Avalon may feel quite isolated in our own communities and that may also go some way to explain our lack of common ground with others on some occasions. Even so on the forum at times as we seem to be all on different learning curves, which is quite a statement for a forum, a good one I would say.

I know I have went off track with what I was saying but I'm writing this as I liked what was said in the above posts, so thank you for bearing with me.

[dim]

There's a Yes for every No and vice versa.
One can argue endlessly for even the simplest things like if 1+1 always equals 2 and take this debate to a thousand lifetimes ahead.
And then argue for the opposite for another thousand. That's the nature of the mind.
We derive our sense of self, our individuality, out of the firm hold of one side of the rope and never let it go, letting go would mean death to us.
And next year, or 10, this side can change, and we find ourselves holding the opposite as fiercely,
arguments don't matter, logic don't matter, only the sense of self matters. The Ego.

And it HAS to happen, Ego must have its way.
Until life becomes unbearable and the beginning of it's deconstruction begins, until then let us go ahead and debate more.
The more we exhaust its energy the sooner we liberate from it.

And btw 1+1 doesn't equal 2, it's only a social consensus, an abstraction. It's not real.
start from there, FE can wait.

[DarMar]

Sorry DarMar, I'm not going to be enticed into a flat earth debate.
I was on topic all the time.
Didn't delved to prove flatness of earth BECAUSE I DON'T MYSELF BELIEVE IN FLAT EARTH.
I tried to tell you that no one is doing psyop to you nor is that FE fama there to discredit rest of conspiracy 'aware' population.

At least you understand without spending too much time that you can go through my post and point holes in my reasoning, that's start.
Than i can do same to yours, than you can again find mine, than i go on yours, thay you on mine .. and then we are trapped.
It can be endless...

From that stand point one can feel very trapped, but it is not coming from outside source, and we are not powerless to put end on it.



There's a Yes for every No and vice versa.
One can argue endlessly for even the simplest things like if 1+1 always equals 2 and take this debate to a thousand lifetimes ahead.
And then argue for the opposite for another thousand. That's the nature of the mind.
We derive our sense of self, our individuality, out of the firm hold of one side of the rope and never let it go, letting go would mean death to us.
And next year, or 10, this side can change, and we find ourselves holding the opposite as fiercely,
arguments don't matter, logic don't matter, only the sense of self matters. The Ego.

And it HAS to happen, Ego must have its way.
Until life becomes unbearable and the beginning of it's deconstruction begins, until then let us go ahead and debate more.
The more we exhaust its energy the sooner we liberate from it.

And btw 1+1 doesn't equal 2, it's only a social consensus, an abstraction. It's not real.
start from there, FE can wait.

Yeah, on point 100%
Arguing can be quite nonsensical because from it everyone can conclude whatever that person can percept with his perceptors.

[Bill Ryan]

At least you understand without spending too much time that you can go through my post and point holes in my reasoning, that's start.
Than i can do same to yours, than you can again find mine, than i go on yours, thay you on mine .. and then we are trapped.
It can be endless...



You suffer from the same profound confusion as joeecho (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?94832-Flat-Earth-Psychological-Operations&p=1118626&viewfull=1#post1118626). (Pardon me, but I'll say that straight and honestly.) It's worrying even to read nonsense like this.

It states that you have unresolvable doubts. If that reflects the inner world you live in, it seems you cannot be truly certain about anything, maybe even your own existence. Pragmatically, that's pretty unhealthy.

Metaphysically, you could maybe question whether the cup of coffee you're holding as you read this is actually real. But I bet you drink it anyway. :)

Read this... possibly you've not come across it. It's become an English idiom referring to a pointless, fruitless, over-intellectual question.


How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_many_angels_can_dance_on_the_head_of_a_pin%3F)





The question "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" has been used many times as a dismissal of medieval angelology in particular, and of scholasticism in general. The phrase has been used also to criticize figures such as Duns Scotus and Thomas Aquinas, who explored the intersection between the philosophical aspects of space and the qualities attributed to angels. Another variety of the question is: "How many angels can stand on the point of a pin?"

Scholasticism used these kind of questions in dialectical reasoning to extend knowledge by inference, and to resolve contradictions. The need for rationality as complementary to faith was raised as an important point for Catholic theology at the Council of Trent. The question has also been linked to the fall of Constantinople, with the imagery of scholars debating about minutiae while the Turkish besieged the city.

In modern usage, it therefore has been used as a metaphor for wasting time debating topics of no practical value, or questions whose answers hold no intellectual consequence, while more urgent concerns pile up.
Exactly.

[dim]

Arguing can be quite nonsensical because from it everyone can conclude whatever that person can percept with his perceptors.

Except this "everyone" is always somebody else, can never be me, cause i'm sort of always right. Right ?
And that's sort of of true for "everyone".

[TheGoldenRule]

"I would rather have questions for which there are no answers than have answers that can't be questioned."

If FE'ers are so horribly wrong and ignorant, why do those of you continuously attack and berate any discussion of the subject?

Is it because your eyes might possibly be opened to truths which you conveniently suppressed because your ego couldn't handle it?

This forum is becoming far from the nexus of "science and spirituality" that it touts itself as.


Thank you, LivioRazio, for daring to speak up. You and I may be banned for expressing an opinion not endorsed by Project Avalon, though. That's often what happens in these forums.

Moving on, here is a perfect analogy for living on a ball/oblate spheroid/pear shape that no one can explain to me:

Place an ant on a basketball. Watch it crawl around. Unless it is at the very top of the ball, it will always be sideways or even upside down when on the lower portion of the ball.

Now, place a Human or animal on Earth. Watch it walk around. The miracle of all miracles will occur . . . the Human or animal is ALWAYS right side up, no matter where it is standing on the Earth ball.

Now, take the case of an airplane flying from the northern hemisphere to the southern hemisphere. Another miracle of all miracles will occur . . . the airplane is ALWAYS right side up, no matter where it is located above the Earth ball. (I won't even get into the aspect of the Earth supposedly spinning at 1,000 mph having no effect on the speed of an airplane in any direction.)

Anyway, I'm the crazy one for not understanding how things are always right side up on an Earth ball. The standard explanation, which is no explanation at all, is that it is "gravity". OK, so "gravity" magically sticks things to the Earth ball, while simultaneously making them upright, no matter their location? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. People and animals in Australia must be walking around on their heads, because they are always upright on the lower portion of the Earth ball.

Yes, I am truly nuts for not understanding how we live on a ball.

I won't be responding to or monitoring this post because I can't deal with closed minds that refuse to think logically, preferring their indoctrination by those who wish to keep Humans ignorant and/or misguided.

[Hervé]

[...]
I won't be responding to or monitoring this post because I can't deal with closed minds that refuse to think logically, preferring their indoctrination by those who wish to keep Humans ignorant and/or misguided.
One can't help but wonder why such an individual even bothered to submit a membership application to the forum.

[Bill Ryan]

[...]
I won't be responding to or monitoring this post because I can't deal with closed minds that refuse to think logically, preferring their indoctrination by those who wish to keep Humans ignorant and/or misguided.
One can't help but wonder why such an individual even bothered to submit a membership application to the forum.

No kidding.

Terminally, astonishingly, unintelligent. You think that people in Australia (or, if you’re in Australia, people in North America or Europe) don’t feel gravity under their feet?

It’s hard to respond to this kind of thing. As Groucho Marx once said,



“Why, a four-year-old child could understand this. Run out and find me a four-year-old child.”
If you can’t comprehend kindergarten simplicities like this, it’s a fair assumption that you’re unable to make much sense of all the other things that are happening in the world, which are a thousand (or a million!) times as complex.

Therefore you’re almost certainly unable to contribute anything very useful to this community — or (clearly!) learn anything from participating in it.


* Bill is almost lost for words *

Unsubscribed. We wish you well, but you absolutely do not belong here.

[norman]

Psychological provocateur. Even though it's tempting to explain what "the right way up" obviously is, it's not the point of such a post to inquire and learn.

The psyop walks in through an open door and drops your favorite vase on the tiles, and looks you in the eye and tells you to sweep up the mess if you care about it so much.

That's not 'thick as a brick', it's darker than ignorance.

[greybeard]

I sometimes wonder if these flat earth people actually believe what they say.
They might just want to provoke reaction--they sure succeed.

Chris

[Nick Matkin]

Yes, I am truly nuts for not understanding how we live on a ball.

I won't be responding to or monitoring this post because I can't deal with closed minds that refuse to think logically, preferring their indoctrination by those who wish to keep Humans ignorant and/or misguided.

Astonishing. Truly astonishing. These people walk amongst us, are able to vote and bare children. Perhaps terrifying would be a better adjective...

Apologies if that seems a little over the top, but I never cease to be deeply perplexed by some people's concept of reality and complete lack of comprehension of the physical world around them. How do they reach adulthood and yet sustain these mindsets?

This is surely worthy of study itself...

[Whiskey_Mystic]

I am part of a team that is launching a satellite into LEO to monitor the lunar surface. The SAT will orbit the very round Earth every ninety minutes. This won't work if the Earth is flat. If the SAT crashes into the flat earth instead, I will be sure to let everyone know right away. :wink:

[Nick Matkin]

I am part of a team that is launching a satellite into LEO to monitor the lunar surface. The SAT will orbit the very round Earth every ninety minutes. This won't work if the Earth is flat. If the SAT crashes into the flat earth instead, I will be sure to let everyone know right away. :wink:

Apparently people like you and me who actually use satellites (along with the thousands who design, manufacture and launch them) are all part of this bizarre cover-up.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

I am part of a team that is launching a satellite into LEO to monitor the lunar surface. The SAT will orbit the very round Earth every ninety minutes. This won't work if the Earth is flat. If the SAT crashes into the flat earth instead, I will be sure to let everyone know right away. :wink:

Apparently people like you and me who actually use satellites (along with the thousands who design, manufacture and launch them) are all part of this bizarre cover-up.

Awesome. I always wanted to be part of the cover up!

[ThePythonicCow]

They might just want to provoke reaction--they sure succeed
They also get to perpetuate the idea that there is no common, shared, reality or truth, on any topic whatsoever. Rather anyone's thoughts on any topic are all equally valid. The truth is whatever we think it is, on all topics. Moreover, any forum or organization that denies this and that limits members or discussions according to "their" ideas of what might be useful or helpful (or at least not destructively distracting) discussion or inquiry is a bunch of tyrannical, censoring, close-minded bastards.

[Bill Ryan]

They might just want to provoke reaction--they sure succeed
They also get to perpetuate the idea that there is no common, shared, reality or truth, on any topic whatsoever. Rather anyone's thoughts on any topic are all equally valid. The truth is whatever we think it is, on all topics. Moreover, any forum or organization that denies this and that limits members or discussions according to "their" ideas of what might be useful or helpful (or at least not destructively distracting) discussion or inquiry is a bunch of tyrannical, censoring, close-minded bastards.

A little less erudite is this exchange just now, on the mods Skype chat.





Bill: @ Debra [who lives in Australia], did you see that post by TheGoldenRule (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?94832-Flat-Earth-Psychological-Operations&p=1118723&viewfull=1#post1118723) on the Flat Earth thread? (I thought maybe you could post a photo of yourself standing on your head)
(or, maybe, trying to hang on, like an upside down ant on a basketball)
^^ read the post to make any sense of this!

Paul: Ah - that's why you moved to Ecuador, Bill. You got tired of standing at an angle.
Brilliant!

Bill: Yep... everything's horizontal, here :thumbsup:

:focus:

[Bill Ryan]

Bill: @ Debra [who lives in Australia], did you see that post by TheGoldenRule (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?94832-Flat-Earth-Psychological-Operations&p=1118723&viewfull=1#post1118723) on the Flat Earth thread? (I thought maybe you could post a photo of yourself standing on your head)
(or, maybe, trying to hang on, like an upside down ant on a basketball)
^^ read the post to make any sense of this!


Debra just sent us this selfie (it's summer there right now, great on the beach)

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/70/9c/3f/709c3f5b1090dba71d583bd0284eb86d.jpg

She snapped this photo on the way there...
http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/1307/meanwhile-australia-kangaroo-demotivational-posters-1373292555.jpg

[enfoldedblue]

I have two friends who have gone over to the flat earth side. It seems the movement is particularly dangerous (and appealing) to people who have recently awoken to the reality that all is not a it seems...and have recently realized that 'they' have been lying to us. Once a person accepts that 'they' have been purposely deceiving us, it becomes easy to fall prey to ideas like this. I haven't looked into it very much, but I know that whatever argument I raise to these friends they have a counter argument based on FE model. Whoever put this particular idea out obviously spent a lot of time on it. I imagine a team sitting around a table laughing at the absurdity and intricacies of their creation.

[norman]

......recently awoken to the reality that all is not as it seems...and have recently realized that 'they' have been lying to us. Once a person accepts that 'they' have been purposely deceiving us, it becomes easy to fall prey to ideas like this.........



It's like a fire wall.

It will become more obviously bogus if the internet is restricted but the flat earth meme is left unhindered. I don't think I've noticed any obviously FE sites in the Fake News lists.

[Bill Ryan]

It's like a fire wall.



Or, a giant pendulum swing.

* Bill is being serious now *


A person correctly comes to realize they've been lied to about a number of major things...
...and then decides that everything is a lie, with no exceptions.

[Debra]

Thank you Bill.

It is about time that we who have made the long Journey to experience the Reality of what is truly going on can now provide evidence that we are indeed positioned on the other side of this flat beautiful earth.

Google Earth i believe is a psyop but they slip up. Do the search yourself. Zoom in enough and you will see. Above flat earth photography does not lie!!!
34674
Wake up Avalon

[norman]

Spacial awareness is really something we master for ourselves without having to rely on trusted sources. It's more normal for a baby to achieve spacial awareness by about the time it can reach out and touch a line of noisy things across it's cot. From there it's pretty quick progress to riding a bike and falling out of trees etc. All done without having to believe anyone about anything.

I suppose the problems kick in after schools get there hands on them.

[Bill Ryan]

Spacial awareness is really something we master for ourselves without having to rely on trusted sources. It's more normal for a baby to achieve spacial awareness by about the time it can reach out and touch a line of noisy things across it's cot. From there it's pretty quick progress to riding a bike and falling out of trees etc. All done without having to believe anyone about anything.

I suppose the problems kick in after schools get there hands on them.

These are interesting questions. I think some folks make very good, workable sense of the world that's in front of their eyes, for all everyday practical purposes, but then can't, or don't extrapolate (or maybe even ever think about!) the bigger picture.

Here's a real example: a conversation I had with a good friend of mine, when we were both sharing a long car journey in our early 20s. She was an artist, and a very, very nice person indeed. The subject came up about stars, because we were driving at night under a clear sky.

I made some reference to stars each being like our sun (or, in many cases, much bigger), zillions of miles away, and many of them might have their own planetary systems that we knew absolutely nothing about.

My friend was utterly shocked. She'd had no idea what stars were. She worked in theater, and (this is not a joke), I honestly think she thought they were just like a bunch of stage lights somehow all hanging in the sky. She had never heard the idea that stars were suns like our own.

To this day, I remember how utterly astonished she was as I explained it all to her. Yet she was creative, smart, funny, able, a BA university graduate, and in every way an extremely lovely person.

[ulli]

Spacial awareness is really something we master for ourselves without having to rely on trusted sources. It's more normal for a baby to achieve spacial awareness by about the time it can reach out and touch a line of noisy things across it's cot. From there it's pretty quick progress to riding a bike and falling out of trees etc. All done without having to believe anyone about anything.

I suppose the problems kick in after schools get there hands on them.

These are interesting questions. I think some folks make very good, workable sense of the world that's in front of their eyes, for all everyday practical purposes, but then can't, or don't extrapolate (or maybe even ever think about!) the bigger picture.

Here's a real example: a conversation I had with a good friend of mine, when we were both sharing a long car journey in our early 20s. She was an artist, and a very, very nice person indeed. The subject came up about stars, because we were driving at night under a clear sky.

I made some reference to stars each being like our sun (or, in many cases, much bigger), zillions of miles away, and many of them might have their own planetary systems that we knew absolutely nothing about.

My friend was utterly shocked. She'd had no idea what stars were. She worked in theater, and (this is not a joke), I honestly think she thought they were just like a bunch of stage lights somehow all hanging in the sky. She had never heard the idea that stars were suns like our own.

To this day, I remember how utterly astonished she was as I explained it all to her. Yet she was creative, smart, funny, able, a BA university graduate, and in every way an extremely lovely person.

The same happened to me with a 'well-educated' employee years ago in Barbados. I had one of those astronomy books with realistic pictures, and started to show them to her.
Earth getting smaller and smaller as more solar system planets were shown.
I don't know which one of us was more shocked, when she suddenly exclaimed " That can't be!!!"
She, at discovering that the earth was a blue marble suspended in black space, or I at discovering that someone had never heard before that the earth was round.

[norman]

It's strictly off topic the say this, but, I've found lately that I can't have a serious conversation with a 'millennial' around here because they don't really know anything. I wouldn't mind that so much, if they weren't so cock sure they don't need to.

[Bill Ryan]

"That can't be!!!"


That's hilarious... you could write that scene into a movie :bigsmile:

[Verdilac]

It's like a fire wall.



Or, a giant pendulum swing.

* Bill is being serious now *


A person correctly comes to realize they've been lied to about a number of major things...
...and then decides that everything is a lie, with no exceptions.


I agree with the above very much and adding a little something if I may, and if I have permission.

When people decide everything is a lie with no exceptions it can be very hard to reach them on any level or stop them doing very silly things, very serious silly things which sadly there can be no coming back from.

Maybe its our job to try and steer said parties in a more positive direction with words, literature and learn experiences.

I have my concerns about trying steer anyone if I'm honest as its there learning experience & there life, but it is quite painful to lose people this way after they initially came to realise there was so much they were missing by not opening up.

[Omni]

Thanks for the laughs everyone :ROFL:

[onawah]

It just goes to show you what public schooling is doing to students' minds.:facepalm:

[Nick Matkin]

My friend was utterly shocked. She'd had no idea what stars were. She worked in theater, and (this is not a joke), I honestly think she thought they were just like a bunch of stage lights somehow all hanging in the sky. She had never heard the idea that stars were suns like our own.

I have come across this sort of thinking before, Bill. Not that particular subject, but the sort of thing that makes you think: "What? You might not understand it but you've never even thought about it?!"

One can imagine this being the case hundreds of years ago, but hasn't everyone we come into daily contact with been to school?

Perhaps it's because we usually surround ourselves with people of similar experiences, interests and educations and when we are confronted with something like this it takes us aback.

A recent expression I heard - and you need a slight understanding of mathematics to appreciate it...

*When you realise how stupid the average person is, it's very worrying when you realise half the population is even stupider than that!*

[Isserley]

Yet she was creative, smart, funny, able, a BA university graduate...

It's like finishing school and not knowing the alphabet? Universe material is in the textbooks for elementary schools.. perhaps pre-school children learn the basics of the universe.
Maybe it's a sign that we are on the path of returning to the Middle Ages when all sorts of unsubstantiated facts were considered as strict truth.

[bluestflame]

emotional investment

[sunwings]

Speaking as someone who went down the FE rabbit hole and came out for the better it is really smells of the Tavistock Institute to me. Youtube plays a massive role in pushing the agenda as your homepage quickly fills up with flat earth/ dome videos with millions of views. (11 million people cant be wrong you think:ROFL:)

34676

However hard they tried to tell me that the UN map or the flight paths of planes were proof of FE, there were very obvious scientific facts which they could not explain....

https://whotfetw.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/11140104_10201118154273518_5717127240094071216_n.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/uWjy03P.jpg

The only part of this Psyop which got my attention was Antarctica. The videos made it clear that it was the edge of the earth and that is why it was so protected. I realised there could be something there but it certainly wasn't the edge of the world! But what? Two years later Antarctica seems to be very active indeed .....

[DarMar]

You suffer from the same profound confusion as joeecho. (Pardon me, but I'll say that straight and honestly.)

When I was kid, I played doctor role several times too.
Sadly I must disappoint your diagnose as I'm not suffering any kind of your speculation. No matter what opinion you have it is still just an opinion.


It states that you have unresolvable doubts. If that reflects the inner world you live in, it seems you cannot be truly certain about anything, maybe even your own existence. Pragmatically, that's pretty unhealthy.

It states that debates can be endless without personal experience because they are build onto ideas. Rest is again assumption but health care is persistent :)



Metaphysically, you could maybe question whether the cup of coffee you're holding as you read this is actually real. But I bet you drink it anyway.

Metaphysically this comical event even happened in your head while typing this.

[Rich]

The earth is round. But the sun is flat!
This can be proven with a simple explanation;
If the sun was round the sun rays would miss earth or at least most of them would.
With a round sun there would be an ice age within a few hours...

This is what it really looks like:
https://s17.postimg.org/hdq4tice7/flat_sun_theory_bruce_iorio.jpg


If you make straight lines from a round object the distance between the lines increases more and more the further you go, meaning if the sun is round the rays would more or less miss earth:

https://s15.postimg.org/rbqsna1uj/Flat_Sun_explanation.png (https://postimg.org/image/ouf1g0hxz/)

[Hervé]

Yep... another one of these "dialogues de sourds" between ideas and their subjective realities (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?68916-Don-t-go-into-the-light-Discussion-thread&p=806378&viewfull=1#post806378) and a - somewhat - common 3D physical reality...

At least there is some common ground (:jester:) ... that there is an "Earth" and that people do walk on it!

See: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?91117-Elon-Musk-Nails-it-We-are-living-in-a-computer-simulation&p=1072735&viewfull=1#post1072735

[Bill Ryan]

The earth is round. But the sun is flat!


Well, I hope you realize that was an artistic joke! :bigsmile:

Here's more of Bruce Iorio's work.


http://fineartamerica.com/featured/earth-christmas-2-bruce-iorio.html

I liked this image of his... here, we have another model of the solar system. :)

http://projectavalon.net/earth-christmas-2-bruce-iorio.jpg

Here's another one (very neat! :star: ), though this was created by another artist, Bill Frymire.

http://www.billfrymire.com/gallery/weblarge/Christmas-tree-ornament-Earth-globe.jpg

[Whiskey_Mystic]

You're all wrong. It's turtles all the way down.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-e-gKYCmqmdE/UP31ZaYJAcI/AAAAAAAAAO8/H0brxdD0yJs/s1600/turtles+all+the+way+down.gif

[onawah]

Anti-logic: the education plague
Nov 25 by Jon Rappoport
https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2016/11/25/anti-logic-the-education-plague-4/

In all times and places, logic is never taught to the masses. There is no intention to do so.

Now, in our “egalitarian society,” education carries with it great PR pretension, a fakery that outflanks any other period in history.

Therefore, graduating students wrongly believe they know how to think.

In my latest collection, Power Outside The Matrix, I include a long audio tutorial, Analyzing Information in the Age of Disinformation, which is all about carrying out deep investigations of major official scenarios/stories, and discovering how and where these official structures can be penetrated, taken apart, and unfolded, so all their flaws and deceptions are exposed.

This training is meant to remedy the deep hole people find themselves in, when they go up against entrenched (or even alternative) “knowledge.”

For example, there is a particular logical fallacy I call: “this means that.”

It runs rampant throughout society. The fallacy bleeds into the reasoning process, into notions of self-worth, into people’s need to identify themselves with an “acceptable” position.

Take the concept of manmade global warming. For many people, affirming this as a reality means:

“I’m defending the sacred quality of life on Earth, I’m helping the planet, I’m exposing the nasty crimes of big corporations, I’m acknowledging and shining a spotlight on the selfish and petty actions of the masses, I’m in the vanguard of recognizing that this issue represents the greatest threat humankind has ever known, I’m transcending ‘profits over values’, I’m envisioning with others a better world, I’m aligning myself with the best international scientific minds, I’m experiencing the sensation of having a larger mission in life.”

This—manmade global warming—means all that.

Therefore, how do you approach rational discourse on the subject of manmade warming?

You don’t.

There is no logic to be found. There is only “this means that.”

The concept or idea or symbol of manmade warming is so fully packed with sentiment, it resists all attempts at entry.

Here is another example: “America must field a powerful military force all over the world.”

For many people this means: “US wars are good and righteous wars, support our troops, admire the representations of war in sports, praise large American corporations, vote for a ‘tough President’, winning is everything, expand the Pentagon budget, develop a kick-ass attitude, love technology in all forms and degrees, obey and agree with institutional authority, assume that bigger is always better.”

“This means that.”

Therefore, a rational discussion about the wisdom of deploying the US military all over the planet is impossible. The amount of packed sentiment is a suit of body and mind armor.

In the case of manmade warming, examining the science behind the hypothesis becomes completely irrelevant. To even begin to look at it feels like an act of betrayal to the person who has “this means that” firmly in place.

Nothing in the person’s education has ever challenged his reflexive hard-wired “this-that” formulation. A breakthrough has never been made in the area of logic.

Instead, education has, at best, skated across the surface of “this means that” and left it undisturbed.

With some degree of accuracy, one could say that all the other traditional logical fallacies—ad hominem attack, straw man, vague generality, circular reasoning, appeal to authority, etc.—spring from “this means that.”

When I attended college in the 1950s, it was my good fortune to have a logic professor who could analyze and separate a thousand angels dancing on the head of a pin—and at the same time, maintain his great and natural charm and sense of humor.

Our conversations outside of class were moments of excitement. They were also rugged mind workouts.

His parting shot to me, as I was about to graduate: “Know what you don’t know.”

Some 20 years later, when I began a career as a reporter, that piece of advice came back to me.

I was prepared to do investigations, because I could make assessments of what I didn’t know and therefore needed to find out.

I could evaluate sources, who would often try to deploy logical flaws to derail me.

One of the great delights of reporting is discovering that the story you’re working on isn’t the story. The story turns out to be something else entirely.

That was the case in 1987, when I got down to writing my first book, AIDS Inc (note: AIDS Inc is included as bonus in Power Outside The Matrix). People were coming at me from every direction, feeding me their half-baked theories about what AIDS “really was.”

They seemed to believe that, because they were departing from the conventional wisdom on the subject, they must be right.

Encountering that odd notion of self-entitlement stood me in good stead, from that time forward.

When I eventually arrived at the bottom of the AIDS story, I was shocked to see it wasn’t at all what I predicted it would be.

It’s astounding how many logical steps people are willing to skip over, when they have a “this means that” cooking in their heads.

Like a foreign traveler visiting a bizarre museum, I’ve encountered many varieties of sophistry over the past 30 years.

Logic isn’t the be-all and end-all. But it is, in the largest sense, an ever-expanding method you can use to probe deeper and deeper into an argument, a line of reasoning, and engage with the basic assumptions that underlie a position a person is occupying.

It’s as if you’re learning a story backwards, moving toward the beginning, where all the secrets are.

And chances are good that you will eventually encounter some form of the abiding “this means that,” hiding like a horned toad under a bush.

He’s there, he’s quiet, he’s waiting, and when you turn a branch away from a shadow, he stares at you and you know you’ve arrived at the nexus:

the unyielding stubborn source of confusion and illogic.

And sometimes, on good days, you can get the horned toad to tell his story. His real story. All the way through. And you can see him regain his lost sanity.

That’s an experience not to be missed. You’ll remember it for your whole life.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

"That can't be!!!"


That's hilarious... you could write that scene into a movie :bigsmile:

For me it was, "NO...WAY!"

Had almost exact same experience with a former gf. After leaving a pub late one night, I paused briefly by the car to admire the stars - millions of bright stars on a cold, very clear night. I pointed out various constellations to her, some notable stars, and then finally Venus. 'Venus?' she inquired, 'but isn't that a planet?'

'Yes,' (not a big deal), 'that's the planet Venus.'

'NO WAY!'

To her, Venus was just some 'space thing', far, far away (if it existed at all) and irrelevant, because it did not exist in her world. But here it was right in front of her, a sharp point of light, more brilliant than any other – clearly visible, and very real. I'll never forget the look on her face. For a brief moment awareness of her reality shifted, or expanded, and took in something she had never even conceived of before.

anyway, back to topic...

[onawah]

And God promised men...
https://almostinbadtaste.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/wives.jpg?w=764

[Nick Matkin]

I'm sorry everyone, but does Poe's Law apply to this post or not? :confused:


The earth is round. But the sun is flat!
This can be proven with a simple explanation;
If the sun was round the sun rays would miss earth or at least most of them would.
With a round sun there would be an ice age within a few hours...

This is what it really looks like:

https://s17.postimg.org/hdq4tice7/flat_sun_theory_bruce_iorio.jpg


If you make straight lines from a round object the distance between the lines increases more and more the further you go, meaning if the sun is round the rays would more or less miss earth:

https://s15.postimg.org/rbqsna1uj/Flat_Sun_explanation.png (https://postimg.org/image/ouf1g0hxz/)

[Bill Ryan]

I'm sorry everyone, but does Poe's Law apply to this post or not?

For reference! :)




Poe's law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law) is an Internet adage that states that, without a clear indicator of the author's intent, it is impossible to create a parody of extreme views so obviously exaggerated that it cannot be mistaken by some readers or viewers as a sincere expression of the parodied views.

[Rich]

I didn't get the wiki explanation, Urbandictionary (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Poe%27s%20Law) gives a more simple one, incidentally they use an example from a flat earth discussion as well:

Poe's Law
Similar to Murphy's Law, Poe's Law concerns internet debates, particularly regarding religion or politics.

"Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing."

In other words, No matter how bizzare, outrageous, or just plain idiotic a parody of a Fundamentalist may seem, there will always be someone who cannot tell that it is a parody, having seen similar REAL ideas from real religious/political Fundamentalists.

The following is an actual Internet post to Biblically defend a flat Earth:

"All I was saying was that either the earth is flat, and the bible is correct, or the earth is round, and the bible is incorect, i'm going to study the issue more and deside for myself which route I want to take. Either Atheist evolutionist, who agrees with all of mainstream sciences, or flat earth litteral bible believer.
I'm leaning toward being an atheist, because if I can't believe the bible to be completly litteraly true, then I can't believe Jesus when he speaks about heaven, etc..
That would make the moon landing a fake, and pretty much all of modern science false..."

Response:

"That's it, I'm claiming Poe's Law on this guy."

[Foxie Loxie]

@ Whiskey....You had me laughing out loud! :ROFL: Then it made me think of the photo I had seen of a turtle constructed of stones out in the woods here in the NE someplace! Love your Sense of Humor!! :happythumbsup:

[Verdilac]

@ Whiskey....You had me laughing out loud! :ROFL: Then it made me think of the photo I had seen of a turtle constructed of stones out in the woods here in the NE someplace! Love your Sense of Humor!! :happythumbsup:

You know what I cant figure out Foxie Loxie, and this also makes "me" chuckle. Why nobody ever seems to challenge a flat earther to explain why the water "Appears" flow down the plughole in the opposite direction in the northern & southern hemisphere .

It seems to me that we should have sticky with a picture of 2 plugholes draining , this may help explain the shape of the earth in very basic terms at a grass roots level.

[Gillian]

Sometime ago, I was developing a theory based on something Dolores Cannon said combined with the idea of dimensions. Dolores Cannon suggested that the earth would be moving into another dimension. Actually, she said that it would split itself into two dimensions, an old earth and a new earth. Some people would remain on the old earth and some would move to the new earth. As a flat earth would be a two-dimensional earth (I think I understand this and have watched Flatland and the two-dimensional clip from "What the Bleep" 2, many times), I wondered if those who were not going with the new earth would have to experience a two-dimensional earth for awhile. It is an interesting psychological enigma and, therefore, those that were going to reside on this other earth are convinced it is flat.

I certainly think the earth is somewhat round. I am very interested in the theory that the earth is expanding or stretching itself and have one foot in the plate tectonic camp and one in the expansion camp. I also don't know what to think of Dolores Cannon's information as I rather like that the human race is in this experience together and cannot be divided into two subsets. However, if the other subset doesn't start opening its eyes, I am happy to move on and let them catch up later.

[Hervé]

...

Right on time:

qzMQza8xZCc

THIS WILL SHOW LIVE and PRE-RECORDED FOOTAGE -
As the Space Station passes into a period of night every 45 mins video is unavailable - during this time, and other breaks in transmission, recorded footage is shown .

When back in daylight the live stream of earth will recommence

[Wind]

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh35/THA_BEAST_721/flatearthposter.jpg

[joeecho]

In a holographic universe, both are right and both are wrong to each other.

[Omni]

In a holographic universe, both are right and both are wrong to each other.

In the objective universe there is The Truth.

[transiten]

Do flat earth pple ever ponder what will happen when they come to the edge of the flat earth? Will they tip over into the universe. Has anyone tried it? For my life I can't understand how reasoanbly intelligent pple like f.i. Santos Bonacci holds on to this flat earth theory :facepalm:

[Pharos]

Looking into an assertion, which on the surface seems blatantly false, such as the flat earth, might seem like a pointless exercise to some, but I would like to offer a different perspective. I have been looking into the flat earth mainly because of an article in "The Atlantic" monthly (In Defense of Flat Earthers January 27th 2016), but also because of a technique I was taught in school years ago.

I was told by one of my professors that when I was looking at a new project, if was stuck on an idea it was sometimes good to consider the most absurd scenarios and investigate them instead for a while. Often in doing so you could make out new avenues where logic would not take you.

It is interesting to observe how many people brush off the notion of flat earth with incredible force. One has to wonder, why such resistance... Are they soft headed, what harm can it do to listen to another point of view with an open mind? There is never any harm in considering new avenues... What harm does considering new paradigms cause. More importantly why jump straight to belief?

I don't "believe" the earth is flat, but there is definitely something that doesn't work well with the curvature equation we are currently working with. I know so because thirty years ago I was on a beach with someone who pointed out a shoreline in the distance, I argued that it was physically impossible to see that far. I was wrong. You can see much further into the distance than the earth curvature equation seems to allow for. That is undeniable. I verified this for myself and did the math. Does that make the earth flat, no, but it does point to some un resolved description of our reality.
For many flat-earthers, this is a starting point. Let's look at our source of information concerning the earth, images provided by NASA. NASA is not doing itself any favors by not providing multiple pictures of the earth. The ONE picture," the blue marble", the only picture from 1972 until the new ones last year, "the NEW blue marble" points to a miserable performance by a well funded agency to say the least. With an estimated fifteen to forty thousand satellites orbiting this earth, one has to wonder why no optics company if not NASA has found it of value to send a camera up in orbit even if only as a publicity vehicle. Curious indeed in an age where people film everything all the time. Add to that Mr Neil Degrasse Tyson's assertions that the planet is an "oblate spheroid" and one starts to wonder... I doubt they are hiding the "flat earth" But I've grown to suspect what is not being shown might be a much stranger reality.

I my work, I have had to research pictures of the globe a few times. I have yet to see a real "photograph" and certainly never any image of an "oblate spheroid". Last time I checked it is impossible to take a picture of something that is not there. Light aberrations, distortions, etc... still reflect aspects visible in our reality. Taking a picture of an "oblate spheroid" that looks perfectly spherical would cause distortions that would be detectable. So here we have Mr Neil DeGrasse Tyson claiming the earth is an "oblate spheroid", surrounded by "journalists" having a great big chuckle about flat earthers... instead of asking a simple question. Where is the non-computer generated image of this oblate spheroid?

I sense a distraction manœuvre in the making, active in both camps. On the sphere earth side there's a disingenuous aspect to many of the images, inconsistencies in the equations and strange observations when it comes to the building of large scale engineering projects such as railroad tracts and bridges.The narrative on the flat earth side shows many unanswered questions, irreconcilable observations with the mercator projection and at the moment there is no solid, workable map to describe the flat earth. The difference here is that there is a growing, thriving, dynamic group of people who have been energized by all the questions that the flat earth idea brings about. New advances such as the Nikon P900 have turned average people into passionate investigators, looking at the horizons for land masses beyond the reach of the naked eye, taking sharp images of the moon without telescopes, following chemtrail making orbs throughout the skies, and filming cloud formations going behind the sun. Those people don't really come across as the idiots described in certain posts... and I'm not sure the average person who reads science articles and sits back in their chair thinking they just got some answers by reading other peoples theories is any better off..

But it is at this fork in the road where one needs to consider why are we being offered these two very specific avenues in the first place, where's the slight of hand? If there's anything true about this realm we inhabit it is certainly that there is always another less travelled road we are being prodded not to consider.

As the article in the Atlantic Monthly points out, the flat earth shows an inquisitive mindset that one should not dismiss. Personally I have seen the most fantastic chemtrail photographs on the net provided by flat earth photographers. People are taking their money and buying balloons to take pictures in the upper atmosphere to see for themselves how the earth looks from higher altitudes. Folks are digging deep into the mathematics describing the sphere, looking into optics and perspective in fresh ways and discarding the notion that to understand the world all you need to to is to bury your head in a book written by someone you never met, who probably died a long time ago and might have been funded by some shady characters:)

Does Marty Leeds come across as an idiot, Michael Tellinger a unimaginative dunce, Santos Bonnaci an un-inquisitive novice? Who is August Piccard, and what did he see, Trekkies might want to know? Before you throw out the baby with the bathwater consider the thought that most of what we believe to be science fact, is offered only as "theories". There is no substitute for real life observation and direct contact with nature. The alchemist of old knew the value of hands on work combined with theoretical musings. This still holds true today.

There is much to be learned by crossing the divide into that unknown frightful territory across the way. Crying pys-ops every time someone does not agree with us is puerile. Every piece of information you come in contact with holds a measure of truth. The only path and tool we need to develop is the path of discernment.

[wondering]

Holy moley, Pharos! How well stated. You have struck a "truth nerve" in me and given me much to think about. Thank you.

[Pharos]

Thank you Wondering. I hope I didn't ruffle any feathers, which was not my intention.

I absolutely love your name! It points to a feeling that keeps on offering new vistas... It's nice to be reminded of that magical state.

[ThePythonicCow]

The last three posts seem to me to be sliding this thread from a discussion of "why Flat Earth is a Psy Op" (to quote the opening post), to yet another defense of and presentation of that Psy Op, as if it had some serious basis in experience and reasoning.

:focus:

[AutumnW]

Whoever came up with this weird disingenuous con should be sentence to a few days of clinging to the underside of flat earth by their fingernails.

[Pharos]

That is a very strange evaluation indeed... I can be accused of being many things, off topic is certainly not one of them. I clearly stated that I am not a flat-earther. This is a discussion about why or how the flat earth is a psy-op. It wouldn't be a psy-op if there was no information within the very topic to attract people.
Calling people names and and pointing out that they are stupid seems to be the extent of the critical thinking going on for much of this thread.
My point is that there are a few ideas within flat earth worth re-examining that have nothing to do with flat earth. These ideas are very cleverly embedded within the movement so to speak. Ideas about perspective , atmospheric distortions etc... The flat earth is a distraction but like all distraction they point us away from something. That something is what I assumed we are all curious about on this forum. I could be mistaken.
If you on the other hand feel that discussing this topic should be limited to wondering what makes people stupid, then indeed we should all get back in line and consider how superior we are to these fools:)

[ThePythonicCow]

That is a very strange evaluation indeed
Apparently what you thought you wrote is not what I thought I read :).

[wondering]

Paul, You commented that my response to Pharos was "off topic". In fact I was responding to his approach, as I understood it, of examining in a broader way the entire topic. I have seen far more outlandish comments made and not be labeled "off topic". I greatly appreciated his reference to Santos Bonnaci, with whom I was not previously familiar. I have since done a little research on him, to my delight. So in this instance one PA member was greatly enriched. But, back to topic....

[ThePythonicCow]

It is interesting to observe how many people brush off the notion of flat earth with incredible force. One has to wonder, why such resistance... Are they soft headed, what harm can it do to listen to another point of view with an open mind? There is never any harm in considering new avenues... What harm does considering new paradigms cause. More importantly why jump straight to belief?
...
I sense a distraction manœuvre in the making, active in both camps.
...
But it is at this fork in the road where one needs to consider why are we being offered these two very specific avenues in the first place, where's the slight of hand? If there's anything true about this realm we inhabit it is certainly that there is always another less travelled road we are being prodded not to consider.

As the article in the Atlantic Monthly points out, the flat earth shows an inquisitive mindset that one should not dismiss.
...
There is much to be learned by crossing the divide into that unknown frightful territory across the way. Crying pys-ops every time someone does not agree with us is puerile. Every piece of information you come in contact with holds a measure of truth. The only path and tool we need to develop is the path of discernment.




Paul, You commented that my response to Pharos was "off topic". In fact I was responding to his approach, as I understood it, of examining in a broader way the entire topic.

This thread has been about, if I understand correctly, presenting and discussing the evidence that the flat earth theories are a psy-op, and the consequences thereof.

Pharos said no - we should not dismiss the flat earth theories as a psy-op, and that crying psy-ops every time someone disagrees is puerile.

Well, yes, technically crying psy-ops every time might be called puerile. But that's not what this thread was doing. Calling out something as a psy-op when it is one is entirely reasonable.

Trying to rehabilitate a psy-op as "showing an inquisitive mindset" is a "distraction manœuvre in the making", not a "broader examination of the entire topic."

Pharos said we should use discernment. Yes we should. I discern, in line with what I thought was the topic of this thread, that flat earth theories are a psy-op, not worthy of our serious consideration, rather worthy of our dismissal.

[joeecho]

In a holographic universe, both are right and both are wrong to each other.

In the objective universe there is The Truth.

That's true but that is entirely different then THE truth.

[Ultima Thule]

In a holographic universe, both are right and both are wrong to each other.

In the objective universe there is The Truth.

That's true but that is entirely different then THE truth.

I would argue that there indeed is usually an objective truth to be observed, instead of a multitude of truths (even opposite ones) that can be seen by different observers - which to me, seems to be a popular concept nowadays. Just like saying that I live on a flat earth, instead of a round one - this is my truth.

Why? I base my argument on the following logic:
On a quantum level, there is a multitude of possibilities - a wave, if you will - that only is made into a permanent particle with a position, when observed by a consciousness. This lately has been replicated at over quantum levels, I propose that it works up to gargantuan levels. What that means - I further postulate that in our universe, everything is as is, laws of physics etc., because it was observed by a consciousness at the very first moment. (Explains to me, what big bang really might have been - the collapse of multitude of possibilities into a finite universe, at the moment of consciousness deciding to take a look. Everything would then not explode, but rather collapse into being).

So: I argue that no, one can not observe something and in reality see something completely else (and new) in an objective way, as whatever it is, it has been already observed by consciousness previously and thus is collapsed into whatever it is. Right and wrong do then exist, the cat is out of the Schrodingers box.

It is another thing to see only a partial picture and make differing conclusions or being deceived(psyop).
:focus:

UT

[Hervé]

From the evidence that there are serious $$ involved (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?89423-Flat-Earth-Idea-Why-so-popular&p=1053625&viewfull=1#post1053625) in the promotion of such an idea, it comes, then, that it is at least a movement culling the "believers" into some community of "like-thinkers" which can then be structured into some "Cargo Cult (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult)."

From the dumbing down of education in the western world and the promotion of ignorance via the MSMs, one can't help but start smelling a NWO agenda and/or "experiment."

An experiment... which can turn up a new flat earth religion which, after a few generation of brain washing, will relegate space travel and orbiting satellites into the realms of myths and legends that are taken seriously only by superstitious, ignorant weirdos... see?

Because... the NWO agenda is to gather together the planet's entire population under a single, new religion that has done away with the pre-existing ones. So, the "NWO" is fishing around to check which "idea" is gonna stick best.

Balderdash?

That could be if it weren't for an old experiment which generated the main three major religions now in existence on earth... yep, that was an experiment that yielded a successful result which, to date, lasted for a couple of millennia... and which took only a couple of generations to grow roots.

All that by following a formula that's being currently applied all over the world.

The formula?

I let you discover said formula via this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?86384-Here-The-So-called-Word-Of-God&p=1120106&viewfull=1#post1120106) (<---) and listening to the interview that it links to... it's 2 hours of your time which may drastically change your view of the world...

[ExomatrixTV]

upBE0_wAA70

~see also all my postings reactions on this thread:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?95559-John-B.-Wells-brilliant-take-on-Flat-Earthers--PsyOp-

35207http://projectavalon.net/forum4//forum4/images/misc/pencil.png

[Nasu]

My guess as to the common denominator as to why it has gained such ground is a lack of education amongst the newly awakened. Reasoning with a FE'er is futile and usually circular, as they have another YouTube "fact" to prove their theory, up their sleeve. But of course it's not their theory is it, that's the point...

All any of us can do is point to the historical books of the past five hundred years, the people Galileo, Copernicus, Hale, etc etc, the re discovery of ancient wisdom, the corroborated experiments in longitude and latitude for travel and conquest for example and the suppression of such materials by interested religious parties for clearly defined historical reasons.

Most educated people would simply call it history. Go and read some history. Scientific history at that. Bill mentioned that the Babylonians knew the earth to be round, they grouped the stars into the twelve houses of the zodiac and created the circular idea of the earth from the 360 days it took them to observe a full rotation or solar year. It turned out they were only off in their mathematical equations by five days...

The FE'ers have reasoned themselves into this mind game, if they choose to reason themselves out, it will take equal or greater work, on their part, not mine... N

[norman]

You know the saying " never let a good crisis go to waste" ? all this flat earth nonsense could be turned into a positive quite easily. Really, the only negative is that we give it our time and let it disturb us by arguing about it.

The good positive spin I want to express is that FE has sucked out all the feeble minded conspiracy theorists, well most of them. That leaves the rest of us to get on with the job without their dead weight slowing us down. All we have to do is disengage from them.

Whoever came up with the idea over estimated at least my own inkling to even be arsed with it all. It only ever distracts me when I see people I know getting chewed up about it.

[joeecho]

Second-dimensionality (flat) is a concept/ perception just like Third-dimensionality (sphere) with an infinite number of dimensions existing simultaneously. Therefore, there is not one dimensionality that holds sway regarding perception vs. reality.

[Atlas]

If the Earth was flat, Hitler would have known about it and the Nazis would already be on Mars.

Flat Earth Reality Makes Adolf Hitler Angry
1Zm6IefG4ks

[Wind]

VUvdLai3f1c

[Bill Ryan]

VUvdLai3f1c

OMG.

:bump: :bump: :bump: :bump: :bump:

This is really hilarious. :)

[Shannon]

VUvdLai3f1c

OMG.

:bump: :bump: :bump: :bump: :bump:

This is really hilarious. :)

Amazing! I love it so much :)

[ExomatrixTV]

~this thread has 109 Replies & 14,087+ views :muscle: combine these stats with: 59 replies & 11,338+ link: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?95559-John-B.-Wells-brilliant-take-on-Flat-Earthers--PsyOp-

Total both threads 168 replies & 25425 views! :thumbsup:

[ExomatrixTV]

http://www.popsci.com/10-ways-you-can-prove-earth-is-round ... another excellent post to prove the #FlatEarthPsyOp (exposing the #FlatEarthTards!)

[joeecho]

Anyone can set up the parameters of a situation and be 'right' 100% within those parameters. The whole thing falls apart outside those parameters. People do tend to wrap themselves up in a big warm fuzzy blanket of parameters be it 2d, 3d, 4d, etc.

http://www.crystalinks.com/13thfloor500.jpg

http://oi44.tinypic.com/330h091.jpg

Talk about psychology.....

[Ewan]

VUvdLai3f1c

I've watched this three days running now and every time I come a way with sore cheeks (not used to laughing/grinning so much) and a an improved feeling, just by the laughter is medicine philisophy I think.

[Wind]

Laughter is indeed the best medicine!

[joeecho]

Fourth-dimensional (4d) perception views third-dimensional (3d) perception much like 3d perception views second-dimensional (2d) perception. Where 3d views 2d as a false reality, 4d views 3d much the same way.

ANY victory claim by either 2d or 3d reality is rendered null and void from a greater dimensionality.

Third-dimensionality is only 'right' within the context of itself. Just like someone can be 'right' in their own mind and still be wrong. The irony of that last sentence is not lost on me nor should it be lost on you either, no matter what you believe is 'right'.

Let us transcend the 3d world my 3d friends.

No FEAR (okay, maybe a little fear :bigsmile: )

Best of voyage my fellow interdimensional travelers!

Joe

http://orig05.deviantart.net/9be4/f/2008/134/8/5/sphere_no_evil_by_fractalhead.jpg

[MorningFox]

I simply had to quote this post and bring it back to attention again, as it's probably the most important post in the whole thread. Well said Pharos.


Looking into an assertion, which on the surface seems blatantly false, such as the flat earth, might seem like a pointless exercise to some, but I would like to offer a different perspective. I have been looking into the flat earth mainly because of an article in "The Atlantic" monthly (In Defense of Flat Earthers January 27th 2016), but also because of a technique I was taught in school years ago.

I was told by one of my professors that when I was looking at a new project, if was stuck on an idea it was sometimes good to consider the most absurd scenarios and investigate them instead for a while. Often in doing so you could make out new avenues where logic would not take you.

It is interesting to observe how many people brush off the notion of flat earth with incredible force. One has to wonder, why such resistance... Are they soft headed, what harm can it do to listen to another point of view with an open mind? There is never any harm in considering new avenues... What harm does considering new paradigms cause. More importantly why jump straight to belief?

I don't "believe" the earth is flat, but there is definitely something that doesn't work well with the curvature equation we are currently working with. I know so because thirty years ago I was on a beach with someone who pointed out a shoreline in the distance, I argued that it was physically impossible to see that far. I was wrong. You can see much further into the distance than the earth curvature equation seems to allow for. That is undeniable. I verified this for myself and did the math. Does that make the earth flat, no, but it does point to some un resolved description of our reality.
For many flat-earthers, this is a starting point. Let's look at our source of information concerning the earth, images provided by NASA. NASA is not doing itself any favors by not providing multiple pictures of the earth. The ONE picture," the blue marble", the only picture from 1972 until the new ones last year, "the NEW blue marble" points to a miserable performance by a well funded agency to say the least. With an estimated fifteen to forty thousand satellites orbiting this earth, one has to wonder why no optics company if not NASA has found it of value to send a camera up in orbit even if only as a publicity vehicle. Curious indeed in an age where people film everything all the time. Add to that Mr Neil Degrasse Tyson's assertions that the planet is an "oblate spheroid" and one starts to wonder... I doubt they are hiding the "flat earth" But I've grown to suspect what is not being shown might be a much stranger reality.

I my work, I have had to research pictures of the globe a few times. I have yet to see a real "photograph" and certainly never any image of an "oblate spheroid". Last time I checked it is impossible to take a picture of something that is not there. Light aberrations, distortions, etc... still reflect aspects visible in our reality. Taking a picture of an "oblate spheroid" that looks perfectly spherical would cause distortions that would be detectable. So here we have Mr Neil DeGrasse Tyson claiming the earth is an "oblate spheroid", surrounded by "journalists" having a great big chuckle about flat earthers... instead of asking a simple question. Where is the non-computer generated image of this oblate spheroid?

I sense a distraction manœuvre in the making, active in both camps. On the sphere earth side there's a disingenuous aspect to many of the images, inconsistencies in the equations and strange observations when it comes to the building of large scale engineering projects such as railroad tracts and bridges.The narrative on the flat earth side shows many unanswered questions, irreconcilable observations with the mercator projection and at the moment there is no solid, workable map to describe the flat earth. The difference here is that there is a growing, thriving, dynamic group of people who have been energized by all the questions that the flat earth idea brings about. New advances such as the Nikon P900 have turned average people into passionate investigators, looking at the horizons for land masses beyond the reach of the naked eye, taking sharp images of the moon without telescopes, following chemtrail making orbs throughout the skies, and filming cloud formations going behind the sun. Those people don't really come across as the idiots described in certain posts... and I'm not sure the average person who reads science articles and sits back in their chair thinking they just got some answers by reading other peoples theories is any better off..

But it is at this fork in the road where one needs to consider why are we being offered these two very specific avenues in the first place, where's the slight of hand? If there's anything true about this realm we inhabit it is certainly that there is always another less travelled road we are being prodded not to consider.

As the article in the Atlantic Monthly points out, the flat earth shows an inquisitive mindset that one should not dismiss. Personally I have seen the most fantastic chemtrail photographs on the net provided by flat earth photographers. People are taking their money and buying balloons to take pictures in the upper atmosphere to see for themselves how the earth looks from higher altitudes. Folks are digging deep into the mathematics describing the sphere, looking into optics and perspective in fresh ways and discarding the notion that to understand the world all you need to to is to bury your head in a book written by someone you never met, who probably died a long time ago and might have been funded by some shady characters:)

Does Marty Leeds come across as an idiot, Michael Tellinger a unimaginative dunce, Santos Bonnaci an un-inquisitive novice? Who is August Piccard, and what did he see, Trekkies might want to know? Before you throw out the baby with the bathwater consider the thought that most of what we believe to be science fact, is offered only as "theories". There is no substitute for real life observation and direct contact with nature. The alchemist of old knew the value of hands on work combined with theoretical musings. This still holds true today.

There is much to be learned by crossing the divide into that unknown frightful territory across the way. Crying pys-ops every time someone does not agree with us is puerile. Every piece of information you come in contact with holds a measure of truth. The only path and tool we need to develop is the path of discernment.

[Bill Ryan]

...as it's probably the most important post in the whole thread.

With respect, I'd profoundly disagree. :)

You're missing the point of the thread... which is that this new meme is a psy-op.

This fact of the shape of the planet (and every other planet and star!) isn't the kind of thing that's subject to someone's subjective opinion.

[MorningFox]

I'm not convinced that it definitely is a psy-op...

I'm certainly not convinced that the earth is flat and it seems like a ridiculous notion, as it would to most rational people, however there are inconsistencies in the story we're fed. This has simply opened my mind up further to the lies and the bull**** designed to keep our minds in prison. I knew nasa was full of it just like everyone else but I had no idea of the sheer level of fakery including the images of earth and our planets.

How do you explain that there isn't a single real image of the whole earth, let alone a live feed from orbit?

How do you explain that you can zoom in on the horizon and see things that should be invisible below the curvature of the earth?

It may or may not be a psy-op but regardless has only opened my eyes further in the persuit of truth. Some of the flat earth theory assertions are ridiculous, but anyone who is unable to filter them out didn't really have much hope in the first place. This is less about the earth being flat than it is about questioning what we're told, and I think it helps with that. For me at least.

With all due respect it's surprising that you of all people, Bill, would suggest not even looking in to something. Personally I believe the best course of action is to make your own conclusions based on reviewing all possible information available to you. I don't see how one can get a true picture by only selectively taking in certain information. Truth is truth.

[Wind]

I wouldn't want to to think, pardon my crude words... That there are so many retards out there. That's why this must be a psy-ops indeed, it's too widespread not to be artificially genereted or then something has seriously happened to the IQ levels of humans. Too much fluoride and heavy metals in their brains? Job well done.

The powers that be want conspiracy oriented people to look like complete dimwits who can't be taken seriously. They can just say in the media; "Oh that guy is a 9/11 conspiracy theorist, he must also be a flat earther" (a dummy who gets laughed at).

It's another thing to entertain some theories and critical thinking is extremely important because without that we're totally blind to the lies and dangers out there. We have been lied for our whole lives pretty much about everything. That being said, anyone with a basic knowledge about things just has to aknowledge that the Flat earth "theory" is a ridiculous one at best and at worst a psy-ops which makes people look retarded. God gave you brains for a reason.

bwPnGUPXuQU

[Omni]

Yesterday I bought a new domain I plan on covering the flat earth psyop, and many other psyops. I could not believe it when I saw the domain was available. I am working on my book projects mainly right now, but in the future I plan on dissecting psychological operations on this domain: http://www.psyop.info

[Omni]

How do you explain that there isn't a single real image of the whole earth, let alone a live feed from orbit?

How do you explain that you can zoom in on the horizon and see things that should be invisible below the curvature of the earth?
These do have explanations actually... One reason they would not want to give any live feed from orbit, and maybe even a full picture of earth is there are secrets openly observable out in space. Like extraterrestrial presences, Nazi UFOs and the like... They can resourcefully package something with a true and deeper conspiracy explanation with a false conclusion. This is definitely something happening.


It may or may not be a psy-op but regardless has only opened my eyes further in the persuit of truth. Some of the flat earth theory assertions are ridiculous, but anyone who is unable to filter them out didn't really have much hope in the first place. This is less about the earth being flat than it is about questioning what we're told, and I think it helps with that. For me at least.
Alt media was well questioning what we were told before flat earth. And what this makes me think of is how the auto-hoax crowd has formed conveniently powerful after these flat earth operations. The auto-hoax crowd is just as bad for truth credibility as flat earth.

[Omni]

wtf? Is Trump a flat earther?

http://cnn.com.de/news/donald-trump-says-earth-flat/

Is CNN making this up or what? This article is a hit piece against the internet, and if Trump is not a flat earther him as well (not saying this is happening either way). It has predictive programming to formulate NLP/programming surrounding the premise of the internet. This promotes comments like "well it is the internet" when hardcore truth is being exposed...

You can expect more flat earther articles like this. Check these predictive programming quotes:


After declaring that the world is flat, Mr. Trump, as he has done before, again cited “the Internet” as his primary source of information.


The flat earth conspiracy theory, like most conspiracy theories, is propagated primarily via the Internet. Internet forums and YouTube channels are dedicated to “enlightening” the vast majority who, as truthers explain, naively buy into the “globe earth theory” that has been sold to them since birth.

An NLP hit piece on the word "truther" is embedded into that one.

[Bill Ryan]

wtf? Is Trump a flat earther?

http://cnn.com.de/news/donald-trump-says-earth-flat/

Is CNN making this up or what?

CNN.com.de (http://CNN.com.de) is nothing to do with CNN. It's a fake news site (a 'satirical' site :facepalm: ) made up to look like CNN.

[Clear Light]

wtf? Is Trump a flat earther?

http://cnn.com.de/news/donald-trump-says-earth-flat/

Is CNN making this up or what? This article is a hit piece against the internet, and if Trump is not a flat earther him as well (not saying this is happening either way). It has predictive programming to formulate NLP/programming surrounding the premise of the internet. This promotes comments like "well it is the internet" when hardcore truth is being exposed...



From the "Contact Us" page (http://cnn.com.de/contact/) of the above website cnn.com.de :


Thank you for contacting Carla’s Nice Nunnery (CNN) owned and operated by The Reverend Paul Horner!
http://cnn.com.de/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/carlas.png

[joeecho]

Pathetic Censorship.

[Omni]

wtf? Is Trump a flat earther?

http://cnn.com.de/news/donald-trump-says-earth-flat/

Is CNN making this up or what?

CNN.com.de (http://CNN.com.de) is nothing to do with CNN. It's a fake news site (a 'satirical' site :facepalm: ) made up to look like CNN.

Thanks. I thought it was a domain like co.uk.

[Clear Light]

Last edited by Bill Ryan; Today at 20:38.


Pathetic Censorship.

Oh ! Yes, so it seems Joeecho ... but in the interests of Diplomacy I'm going to describe it as "unnecessary" Censorship ... care to explain why Bill ? Although I suppose as the Membership Guidelines (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/faq.php?faq=avalonguidelines#faq_membershipguidelines) state :


4. POSTS CAN BE EDITED OR DELETED IF NECESSARY

Individual posts may at any time be subject to modifications (edits) by the moderation team. We would only do that to remove something that’s inappropriate (or, in some cases, factually incorrect). In our effort to uphold these guidelines and preserve the community spirit of the forum, posts may be edited, moved, or deleted with or without explanation. Usually, of course, we would make efforts to contact the member concerned immediately, either before or after editing or deleting a post that doesn’t quite meet the guidelines here.


From Bill: Yes. Did not belong on this thread.

:focus:

[MorningFox]

Hi Bill, are you not going to answer my questions or indeed respond to my reply at all?

Best
MF

[Bill Ryan]

Hi Bill, are you not going to answer my questions or indeed respond to my reply at all?

Best
MF

Okay! (If I really have to :) )




With all due respect it's surprising that you of all people, Bill, would suggest not even looking in to something. Personally I believe the best course of action is to make your own conclusions based on reviewing all possible information available to you. I don't see how one can get a true picture by only selectively taking in certain information. Truth is truth.

What on earth (pun not intended) makes you think I've not 'looked into it'? Of course I have — meaning, I'm totally aware of all the truths and falsehoods.

But it doesn't take very long. :) I've been studying astronomy and astrophysics since I was aged 12, when my mother would bring me books on cosmology from the local library for me to read after school. That's why I decided to major in Math.

:focus:

[MorningFox]

I didn't suggest for a minute that you haven't looked in to it. I said I find it surprising that you'd try and persuade others not to look in to it and draw their own conclusions.

I did ask two questions regarding the total lack of images/live feed of a whole earth and objects on the horizon not disappearing behind the curvature. Do you not think those are worth discussing?

If you're able to explain those then I'm completely open to being corrected, but thus far no one seems to be able to and you seem to have conveniently ignored them.

Again I'm not suggesting these are proofs of a flat earth, I'm suggesting they are things worth discussing. I for one would not be aware of them if it weren't for the flat earth movement, regardless of how ridiculous it may or may not be.

[Bill Ryan]

Sigh! :facepalm:

Objects do disappear behind the horizon. Of course they do. Ask anyone who's ever been ocean sailing. (Or in a plane!)

Live feeds from space? Here's one. It took me 30 seconds to find the link.


https://www.cosmosplus.com/live (http://www.cosmosplus.com/live)

If you want to know whether the Earth is round or flat, go channel Eratosthenes.


https://khanacademy.org/partner-content/big-history-project/solar-system-and-earth/knowing-solar-system-earth/a/eratosthenes-of-cyrene

2,200 years ago, he was a lot smarter than 95% (and almost certainly 99.999%) of people lazily and credulously watching YouTube in the modern era. He didn't need a live feed from anywhere to figure it all out. :) (All you really have to do is track the movements of the moon, sun and stars... and see what shape the shadow is during an eclipse.)

:focus:

[Hervé]

Interesting...

When one applies what's left of their inquisitive skills and abilities to realizing that Earth cannot be flat... then said inquisitive skills and abilities are freed enough to also realize that "Flat Earth" is indeed a psy-op designed to mis/re-direct said inquisitive skills and abilities away from the shape of some kardashian's behind or the latest gossips around some star-of-the-day... and towards more important endeavors... like why the "establishment" is so insistent on running wars in the Middle East and funding terrorists there to keep the area in a very unstable state that's been the lot of Africa and is now spreading to Europe and Asia... or the unsavory cultural practice (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?27790-While-you-were-out---business-as-usual) of - and benefits (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?25102-For-an-idea-on-the-big-picture) to - said "establishment" resulting from these wars?

Rome is burning but the "Romans" are more interested in what's happening in the "Arena" and which whistleblower is gonna be eaten first - alive or dead - by the wild beasts and trolls? Or who's gonna win: The Blue Avians or the Red/White Dragons?

Yep! "Divide and Conquer" people's attention so that neither pitchforks nor torches get a chance to come out.

[Rocky_Shorz]

It's the dang child prophet's fault in Russia...

People get close to him even after he passed at 11yo they get miraculously healed.

He gave incredible insight into fracking destroying water supplies, etc etc...

But then one day said the earth is flat, sitting on 3 pillars...

It is written in the Bible that way too.

The world we live in is round, unless it is all a holographs, we are really on a civilization relocation flight across the universe.

I'm not sure if it is psy op or a bunch of rich bastards making a $1 bet at the country club.

They fooled the public on climate change, why not flat earth...

Is the whole flat earth movement created just to tell the holy see, your God doesn't know everything, flat earth came from his wisdom...

Pretty elaborate hoax for all of us to hear and shrug.

Since fisherman didn't read or write, they had to find someone that could write the story and forgot to check what kind of mushrooms were in his oatmeal each morning...

Not a big deal as long as that's the only trip out moment we are questioning...

[MorningFox]

Sigh! :facepalm:

Objects do disappear behind the horizon. Of course they do. Ask anyone who's ever been ocean sailing. (Or in a plane!)

Live feeds from space? Here's one. It took me 30 seconds to find the link.


https://www.cosmosplus.com/live (http://www.cosmosplus.com/live)

If you want to know whether the Earth is round or flat, go channel Eratosthenes.


https://khanacademy.org/partner-content/big-history-project/solar-system-and-earth/knowing-solar-system-earth/a/eratosthenes-of-cyrene

2,200 years ago, he was a lot smarter than 95% (and almost certainly 99.999%) of people lazily and credulously watching YouTube in the modern era. He didn't need a live feed from anywhere to figure it all out. :) (All you really have to do is track the movements of the moon, sun and stars... and see what shape the shadow is during an eclipse.)

:focus:

Well once again you've either misread or simply misunderstood my response. You haven't shown me an image or live feed of the whole earth. And to say 'ask anyone who's been at sea' isn't exactly a solid argument... Of course objects dissappear to the naked eye but there are countless videos and photographs with zoom lenses showing objects brought back in to view at certain distances that mathematically should not be possible to do so. The member I quoted above said he's done this experiment himself.

I also started multiple times that I don't doubt the earth is round, however the flat earth theory raises some points worth discussing.

The fact you've rudely and arrogantly 'sighed' at my perfectly respectful, reasonable and rational response while providing no evidence whatsoever to answer my two questions, suggests we should probably end our correspondence here.

Best
Oriens

[Humanbean]

Sigh! :facepalm:

Objects do disappear behind the horizon. Of course they do. Ask anyone who's ever been ocean sailing. (Or in a plane!)

Live feeds from space? Here's one. It took me 30 seconds to find the link.


https://www.cosmosplus.com/live (http://www.cosmosplus.com/live)

If you want to know whether the Earth is round or flat, go channel Eratosthenes.


https://khanacademy.org/partner-content/big-history-project/solar-system-and-earth/knowing-solar-system-earth/a/eratosthenes-of-cyrene

2,200 years ago, he was a lot smarter than 95% (and almost certainly 99.999%) of people lazily and credulously watching YouTube in the modern era. He didn't need a live feed from anywhere to figure it all out. :) (All you really have to do is track the movements of the moon, sun and stars... and see what shape the shadow is during an eclipse.)

:focus:

Well once again you've either misread or simply misunderstood my response. You haven't shown me an image or live feed of the whole earth. And to say 'ask anyone who's been at sea' isn't a solid argument... Of course objects dissappear to the naked eye but there are countless videos and photographs with zoom lenses showing objects still visible at certain distances when mathematically they should be hidden below the curve.

The fact you've rudely and arrogantly 'sighed' at my perfectly respectful, reasonable and rational response while providing no evidence whatsoever to defend your points, suggests we should probably end our correspondence here.

I think MorningFox has a point here, I have been as deep into the flat earth rabbit hole as it's comfortable to be and have emerged in the sure knowledge that the earth is not flat, but through all that time I kept an open mind as there are some anomalies and omissions that were of interest to me. At no time did I get the impression MorningFox was suggesting that objects did not disappear below the horizon, but that they appear to regularly defy the curvature of the earth equation and are consistently visable at greater distances than that eqaution would stipulate. And yes, the apparant omission of on board cameras on deep space vehicles; how hard would it be to stick a rear facing 100 megapixel camera on these craft. We should be inundated by non-composite images of earth from a distance, it would be good business if nothing else, but we are not, why? Because the earth is flat? No. But why? UFO's the SSP? I don't know, but the question hadn't arisen in my mind until I decided to look into what these flat earth "nutters" were going on about. Also, if this is a psy-op, which on the balance of probability it is, then why haven't they played the card? I haven't heard the "alt right" being labled as flatearthers by the mainstream media much at all. They could have killed Trump by assosiation with that, but as far as I can see, no one is being vilified as a literal "flat earther" in the mainstream press, they have kept their powder pretty dry for a psy-op, question is, why?

[Atlas]

The Earth is flat in a sense because we all live on the surface. (so that it's flat under our feet)

ALERT to the Surface Dwellers!
ZIyO7t4vnTA

[Hervé]

[...]
... objects did not disappear below the horizon, but that they appear to regularly defy the curvature of the earth equation and are consistently visable at greater distances than that eqaution would stipulate....
[...]
... because neither basic geometry nor mathematics can solve problems due to atmospheric optics of refraction/reflection due to [curved] atmospheric layering of varying density and therefore varying refractive indices (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refractive_index)... mirages kind of optical phenomena (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirage).

:focus: ... you know... the Psy-op angle...

[Rocky_Shorz]

That was something that caught me by surprise, out fishing the island would appear 15-20 miles out, on a Cruise ship, the Island would appear from 40-50 miles out... an old salt I used to meet out fishing mention a crows nest added 10 miles to vision for the ship.

A flat earth, light would be on or off for half a planet at a time, no timezones...

If you went to the edge of the flat earth and fell forward would you hit the other side?

I've been around the world searching for bars on the edge, and damn if I don't hit ground every time I fall on my face.

Splane that one Lucy...

[Bill Ryan]

...suggests we should probably end our correspondence here.


I agree.

Your logic kind of confuses me. You say that you 'don't doubt' that the pink elephant in the corner of the room doesn't exist, but you say you still want to 'discuss' it. (Huh?)

:focus: ...

...again, please. This thread is about the psy-op (one of two threads on that topic). It's not to present a critique of evidence.

I won't spend any more of my time debating the pink elephant, except to discuss what kind of projected 'hologram' it may be, and who's doing the 'projecting' — and why.

If you're in doubt about anything at all that every other forum member knows is real, please go elsewhere and come back when you've figured it out. Compared with what's important (and real) in the world, debating this particular phantom elephant is a monumental waste of time.

[MorningFox]

You still completely miss the point that the anomalies I mentioned are worth discussing, not the earth being flat. The flat earth theory is what highlights these and begs more questions about our reality. I thought we're all looking for the truth here? For someone like you to suggest not even looking in to that is simply bonkers.

I was on topic in that I was suggesting that a psy-op that highlights more inconsistencies in the lies we're being fed, while having some very obvious non-truths that anyone with a basic IQ can debunk, doesn't seem like a particularly impactful psy-op to me. It's far more likely that there are so many people on the earth investigating this reality that sometimes there will be theories coming up that are incorrect. In my opinion no one should ever tell someone not to look in to something to draw their own conclusions.

I'll leave this thread now.

Best

[Eram]

You still completely miss the point that the anomalies I mentioned are worth discussing, not the earth being flat. The flat earth theory is what highlights these and begs more questions about our reality. I thought we're all looking for the truth here? For someone like you to suggest not even looking in to that is simply bonkers.

I was on topic in that I was suggesting that a psy-op that highlights more inconsistencies in the lies we're being fed, while having some very obvious non-truths that anyone with a basic IQ can debunk, doesn't seem like a particularly impactful psy-op to me. It's far more likely that there are so many people on the earth investigating this reality that sometimes there will be theories coming up that are incorrect. In my opinion no one should ever tell someone not to look in to something to draw their own conclusions.

I'll leave this thread now.

Best

Good point Morning Fox, however... If you can remember when this particular theory made it's way into the truther community.. It was all over the place out of nowhere. It went almost viral over night. And it kept being pushed for a long time. several years.
To me that's the signature of a psy op.

[Omni]

I won't spend any more of my time debating the pink elephant, except to discuss what kind of projected 'hologram' it may be, and who's doing the 'projecting' — and why.

Do you see any additional tactical reasons to perpetrate flat earth Bill? Other than discrediting the truth by association? It also divides people pretty well. I'd love to hear any intelligent tactical analysis.

And also, who do you think is behind flat earth psyops? It seems like the CIA to me but I am curious about your opinion Bill.





From Bill: see my post below... written before I'd read this. :)

[Bill Ryan]

doesn't seem like a particularly impactful psy-op to me.

Well, it's working. :)

And you're helping it to work, though I do know you don't mean to.

Can you see that someone, somewhere (paid or otherwise!) might be saying, somewhere on the net: "Look at those crazies on Project Avalon. They argue about the Flat Earth."

Job done.

[Rocky_Shorz]

Would they really spend millions on forum trolls to attack anyone derailing the flat earth nonsense?

I don't see them targeting efforts to abort ww III, or expose truths.

It's all about a $1 bet at the country club on whether they can convince blithering idiots the world is flat.

[Omni]

Would they really spend millions on forum trolls to attack anyone derailing the flat earth nonsense?

They can mind control unwitting assets to do this for pennies once the hardware is set up and methodologies developed with electromagnetic technologies. Plus the mind control assets do not have threat to whistleblow. It is a proxy conspiracy in a large way at this point .

[Rocky_Shorz]

I'm starting to wonder if Koch put up $100,000 prize for the most convincing argument, once they have it they will hand it over to mainstream news to watch Rachel Maddow choke out the lies while they sit around the country club laughing.


To understand how sick this family is, you have to understand they were in more than oil in Germany..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhDb677FPlU

This child prophet from Russia was under 5 when he named the plans of evil was to drill for oil everywhere in the world to turn water black as sludge that can't be boiled out.

They control pumping poisonous chemtrails worldwide to destroy our air.

Consider this my reply to your flat earth game...

Still laughing? :wizard:


Trump touring a chemtrails plane?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1ed6z3S1sk

[Bill Ryan]

Trump touring a chemtrails plane?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1ed6z3S1sk

No. Planes with tanks like that are just ballast-testing flight stability (https://www.wired.com/2010/02/peek-inside-boeing-747-8/) under different conditions of load.

:focus:

[Rocky_Shorz]

Would they really spend millions on forum trolls to attack anyone derailing the flat earth nonsense?

They can mind control unwitting assets to do this for pennies once the hardware is set up and methodologies developed with electromagnetic technologies. Plus the mind control assets do not have threat to whistleblow. It is a proxy conspiracy in a large way at this point .

Well I consider you an absolute expert on the subject of mind control. They have attempted access on me but it's painful like they are pounding a square peg in a round hole. I destroy the satellite circuits to make it go away...

When I was shielding Trump from the AI, they got pissed and sent a black chopper to heart attack me...

Lucky I was wearing my Batman underwear, the attack bounced and took out Rockefeller..

They have backed off, only way they can mess with me is by tweeking my spell check so I sound stupid until going back and fixing it...

[Rocky_Shorz]

Imagine a mind control weapon in a nation they want to have a Revolution...

This is from France 3-4 days ago


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hmn_dgWI8r0

[ExomatrixTV]

BACKUP UPLOAD: ZhcRpbKFJYA (the original is gone)

[DarMar]

poor guy on video above, i wouldn't trust him to guard my bicycle.. nuff said

on psyop topic:

gB_Dwr4OfAk

And THAT is what i call psyop. The ones who fail to see that is a psyop is very happy person because he has very freshly unused brain, almost like new..

edit for adding to the fire:
Aqq4C1J3ioM

The guy also on end of second vid posts picture of flat domed earth, which I don't believe is case, I really don't believe we live on flat pancake :)
I stressed that several times, but there is writing "do not swallow" on zippo gasoline bottle for reason, sometimes even that won't help.

[Rocky_Shorz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqzW6vmUDeY

Check out the latest images from China on their moon mission...

I would safely say those behind the flat earth psyop are part of moon denial psy ops too.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph3d_4EguJY

This is the org behind new age programming, strong funding from CIA and Soros.

Linked today to the flat earth psyop.

Free eBook on it here


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTjygesWoU4

[ExomatrixTV]

CuwjWZV8EA0

[DarMar]

KcqFDUJsBE0

[Bill Ryan]

A 'celebrity', popularizing science. He's being pushed, so that his statements on serious issues (like the Apollo Moon Landings, maybe, or UFOs) get traction in popular culture. That would be the strategic goal.

Yes, I'm sure he's carefully managed and used. He 'acts' (always playing himself) in a popular TV shows. His personality is being marketed.
In the video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuwjWZV8EA0) posted by ExomatrixTV, above, Tyson's there to debunk the Flat Earth, and (in so doing) he adds clever fuel to the idea that 'all conspiracy theorists' believe this nonsense.

When Tyson talks about the 'anti-intellectual strain sweeping the country', and 'a failure of the education system', he's 100% right.

Note that the guy making the video is a Flat Earther.

[Pam]

Let's see, Tyson has told us that the earth is really oblate and even agrees in at least one interview that it is "pear like" in shape, bulging below the equator. We can't have it both ways. Who is correct here, NASA, with their perfect sphere or Neal with his pear?

[Bill Ryan]

Let's see, Tyson has told us that the earth is really oblate and even agrees in at least one interview that it is "pear like" in shape, bulging below the equator. We can't have it both ways. Who is correct here, NASA, with their perfect sphere or Neal with his pear?

The 'oblation' isn't visible to the naked eye. The difference is 13 miles in a diameter of 7,900 miles. That's a distortion from the perfectly spherical of a bit more than a tenth of 1%. You couldn't see that even with a magnifying glass on a beachball in your hand. :)

[DarMar]

A 'celebrity', popularizing science. He's being pushed, so that his statements on serious issues (like the Apollo Moon Landings, maybe, or UFOs) get traction in popular culture. That would be the strategic goal.
Strategic goal has nothing to do with our everyday interest. While he theorises wild Disney animation fantasies, we are facing real problems here on ground like hunger, wars, debts, imprisoment(slavery), de-education are just dome of our everyday reality. Declassifying Pluto or classifying it is not helpin us solve REAL problems we have at this moment in time. Just perpetuating our imagination and expectations of what can be tomorrow, while living in NOW is completely ignored by masses.


In the video posted by ExomatrixTV, above, Tyson's there to debunk the Flat Earth, and (in so doing) he adds clever fuel to the idea that 'all conspiracy theorists' believe this nonsense.
Tysons debunks are completely childish and child show ready, for me personally he can not debunk anything, at least until now he didn't.
Few times I tried to explain that physics they explain works on both models (flat and spherical) THE SAME.. His Tower explanation is nonsense. If you go into some really long and tall hallway and put apple on far end of that hall, lie down on floor and try to observe, after that stick yourself to ceiling with duct-ape, what a wonder... you will se further, it is called common perspective and no magic applied there. His so called explanation is ridiculous and childish would be far away from what i would call scientific explanation. But i must admit i like his explanation of gravity too, by yelling bitch in mic and throwing it down :slaps my face: .. If that is science, I'm out of any comments. Kids tho on other hand may laugh at it and accept it as common knowledge, so.. no wonder population is not educated enough, presentations are awkward and nonsensical.


When Tyson talks about the 'anti-intellectual strain sweeping the country', and 'a failure of the education system', he's 100% right.
I would strongly agree, sad story is not only the country but whole world, it would be very nice of us pushing that panic button and starting to act on serious everyday issues we are facing, not fairy tales which i would state is a real psyop here.
Our dear funny Neil is part of psyop, well funded and pushed, not ever Mark S. nor Eric D. are not even close to being pushed or financed or marketed like that. If they are psyop, than it is really bad one imho. And those two i mentioned are really only ones dedicated and lets say more famous, rest youtubers are small copycats which only repeats what those two say. And those two are divided and calling each other shill :D That being said it is a really bad psy operation.


Note that the guy making the video is a Flat Earther.
Guy in the video is HUMAN BEIGN same as you and me, in this video presenting FACT which is observable. None of us is all knowing, and we should learn from best sides not worst sides of opinion. He may with time learn that he is not living on flat plane, atm flat earth is basis of his research and he came to this Neil thing in which he is 100% right, and is tangible and observable. On videos i posted above one can observe ISS and Apollo psyop, also observable. Christian, muslim, white, yellow, black, sphere, flat .. in essence we are all the same but divided to be conquered easier, we are standing on same ground facing same problems, lets take best part out of each other and not degrading each other for worst parts, let's do as best we can from what we have and not degrade and humiliate each other. The guy in videos have more questions than answers in most of times anyways.

---

What am I trying to address here and tried few times is fact that flat earth is not psyop to discredit conspiracy researchers community, and if it is, it is really bad planned and executed.
NASA/ufo/alien on other hand is a real (observable) psyop, maybe after all that 2012, nibiru, and what ever predictions in community failed some people have loosen their tights so they created flat earth to strengthen NASA/UFO community.Controlled opposition is best (and really only one possible type of opposition in this heavily dedicated controlled system).

What psyop looks like? look at for.e. Roswell.. To even day today you don't know if it was aliens, germans, japanese, space clowns, balloons, tin foil... And hard fact is one will never know because it is past tense and NOT observable, yet being discussed, researched, energy being directed towards it while facing aways from real problems we see everyday.

And that my friends is not accidental it is deliberate ergo psychological operation.

edit: for synchronicity reason, after finished writing this, turning on youtube this popped first as suggested, gotta love how it works :)
2eB046f998U

[Omni]

Flat Earth PSYOP:
http://www.psyop.info/2017/05/flat-earth-psychological-operations-the-flat-earth-psyop.html


In the video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuwjWZV8EA0) posted by ExomatrixTV, above, Tyson's there to debunk the Flat Earth, and (in so doing) he adds clever fuel to the idea that 'all conspiracy theorists' believe this nonsense.

And this is what the flat earth PSYOP was designed to do. If he is doing that he is some sort of shill IMO.

[Bill Ryan]

Flat Earth PSYOP:
http://www.psyop.info/2017/05/flat-earth-psychological-operations-the-flat-earth-psyop.html


In the video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuwjWZV8EA0) posted by ExomatrixTV, above, Tyson's there to debunk the Flat Earth, and (in so doing) he adds clever fuel to the idea that 'all conspiracy theorists' believe this nonsense.

And this is what the flat earth PSYOP was designed to do. If he is doing that he is some sort of shill IMO.

Yes. The test would be to see if that was just a one-off, or whether he's rolled out to make the point more and more.

[Omni]

Flat Earth PSYOP:
http://www.psyop.info/2017/05/flat-earth-psychological-operations-the-flat-earth-psyop.html


In the video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuwjWZV8EA0) posted by ExomatrixTV, above, Tyson's there to debunk the Flat Earth, and (in so doing) he adds clever fuel to the idea that 'all conspiracy theorists' believe this nonsense.

And this is what the flat earth PSYOP was designed to do. If he is doing that he is some sort of shill IMO.

Yes. The test would be to see if that was just a one-off, or whether he's rolled out to make the point more and more.
I would bet he throws in some mind controlled comment in future videos like "Like the conspiracy believers did with flat earth" or "like the conspiracy crowd does by believing flat earth" etcetc. Something to further exploit the objective of tarring all conspiracy belief as nonsensical beliefs by lunatics.

Thing is with some shills they don't shill one subject always. They have a precise formula behind their mind control that is similar to what you see in the Bible, Quran, and New Age PSYOPS (http://www.psyop.info/2017/05/birds-eye-view-of-new-age-psychological-operations-psyops.html). That is, truth and/or quality things mixed with strategic behavior or belief modification. Or another scenario with this guy is that he isn't a shill, but was mind controlled something to sabotage his work. It is very complicated. All the dirty tactics I witness on a daily basis due to being a targeted individual I see elsewhere in the world.

[Hervé]

The premise for the "Flat Earth" and similar Psy-op experiments:


[...]

EDUCATION

https://www.henrymakow.com/upload_images/russell.jpg
(Bertrand Russell, product of an old Illuminati family)

Lord Bertrand Russell joined with the Frankfurt School in their effort at mass social engineering and spilled the beans in his 1951 book, The Impact of Science on Society.

He wrote:

'Physiology and psychology afford fields for scientific technique which still await development.' The importance of mass psychology "has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda. Of these the most influential is what is called 'education.' The social psychologists of the future will try different methods of producing an unshakable conviction that snow is black."
Russell said education will affirm:
"First, that the influence of home is obstructive.

Second, that not much can be done unless indoctrination begins before the age of ten.

Third, that verses set to music and repeatedly intoned are very effective.

Fourth, that the opinion that snow is white must be held to show a morbid taste for eccentricity. But I anticipate. It is for future scientists to make these maxims precise and discover exactly how much it costs per head to make children believe that snow is black, and how much less it would cost to make them believe it is dark grey . When the technique has been perfected, every government that has been in charge of education for a generation will be able to control its subjects securely without the need of armies or policemen."
Writing in 1992 in Fidelio Magazine, [The Frankfurt School and Political Correctness] (http://www.schillerinstitute.org/fid_91-96/921_frankfurt.html)Michael Minnicino observed how the heirs of Marcuse and Adorno now completely dominate the universities, 'teaching their own students to replace reason with 'Politically Correct' ritual exercises.

There are very few theoretical books on arts, letters, or language which do not openly acknowledge their debt to the Frankfurt School. The witchhunt on today's campuses is merely the implementation of Marcuse's concept of 'repressive toleration'- 'tolerance for movements from the left, but intolerance for movements from the right'-enforced by the students of the Frankfurt School'.

[...]
... so... you are still operating under the mistaken belief that snow defines the color "white"? Well, let me 'splain how US Aid works... and, guess who/what is holding the purse cordons/strings with respect to universities' State and Federal fundings...

Indeed, echoing Plato’s Plan (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?86384-Here-The-So-called-Word-Of-God&p=1131232&viewfull=1#post1131232) on how to create a new nation/World Order over a couple of generations like he did with the Bible.

[Hervé]

Now... there may be another facet to that "Flat Earth" thingy... and that's of a test to weed out/hired "incompetent" people... you know... like police officers hired due to below average IQ... while Trump needs to close the door to such for his government:

Dunning-Kruger effect - The illusion of competence (https://aeon.co/ideas/what-know-it-alls-dont-know-or-the-illusion-of-competence)

Kate Fehlhaber/Edited by Pam Weintraub
Aeon (https://aeon.co/ideas/what-know-it-alls-dont-know-or-the-illusion-of-competence)
Wed, 17 May 2017 20:56 UTC


https://www.sott.net/image/s19/396490/large/idea_sized_dakota_crash_.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s19/396490/full/idea_sized_dakota_crash_.jpg)
Look out! Head-on car crash in rural South Dakota in 1932. Eighty per cent of drivers rate themselves as above average. © Photo courtesy Wikipedia


One day in 1995, a large, heavy middle-aged man robbed two Pittsburgh banks in broad daylight. He didn't wear a mask or any sort of disguise. And he smiled at surveillance cameras before walking out of each bank. Later that night, police arrested a surprised McArthur Wheeler. When they showed him the surveillance tapes, Wheeler stared in disbelief. 'But I wore the juice,' he mumbled. Apparently, Wheeler thought that rubbing lemon juice on his skin would render him invisible to videotape cameras. After all, lemon juice is used as invisible ink so, as long as he didn't come near a heat source, he should have been completely invisible.

Police concluded that Wheeler was not crazy or on drugs - just incredibly mistaken.

The saga caught the eye of the psychologist David Dunning at Cornell University, who enlisted his graduate student, Justin Kruger, to see what was going on. They reasoned that, while almost everyone holds favourable views of their abilities in various social and intellectual domains, some people mistakenly assess their abilities as being much higher than they actually are. This 'illusion of confidence' is now called the 'Dunning-Kruger effect', and describes the cognitive bias to inflate self-assessment.

To investigate this phenomenon in the lab, Dunning and Kruger designed some clever experiments. In one study (http://psych.colorado.edu/%7Evanboven/teaching/p7536_heurbias/p7536_readings/kruger_dunning.pdf), they asked undergraduate students a series of questions about grammar, logic and jokes, and then asked each student to estimate his or her score overall, as well as their relative rank compared to the other students. Interestingly, students who scored the lowest in these cognitive tasks always overestimated how well they did - by a lot. Students who scored in the bottom quartile estimated that they had performed better than two-thirds of the other students!

This 'illusion of confidence' extends beyond the classroom and permeates everyday life. In a follow-up study (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2702783/), Dunning and Kruger left the lab and went to a gun range, where they quizzed gun hobbyists about gun safety. Similar to their previous findings, those who answered the fewest questions correctly wildly overestimated their knowledge about firearms.

Outside of factual knowledge, though, the Dunning-Kruger effect can also be observed in people's self-assessment of a myriad of other personal abilities. If you watch any talent show on television today, you will see the shock on the faces of contestants who don't make it past auditions and are rejected by the judges. While it is almost comical to us, these people are genuinely unaware of how much they have been misled by their illusory superiority.

Sure, it's typical for people to overestimate their abilities. One study (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0001457586900047) found that 80 per cent of drivers rate themselves as above average - a statistical impossibility. And similar trends have been found when people rate their relative popularity (https://www.jstor.org/stable/3090112?seq=1) and cognitive abilities (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2429993/).

The problem is that when people are incompetent, not only do they reach wrong conclusions and make unfortunate choices but, also, they are robbed of the ability to realise their mistakes.

In a semester-long study (http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=buy.optionToBuy&id=2000-03003-015) of college students, good students could better predict their performance on future exams given feedback about their scores and relative percentile. However, the poorest performers showed no recognition, despite clear and repeated feedback that they were doing badly. Instead of being confused, perplexed or thoughtful about their erroneous ways, incompetent people insist that their ways are correct. As Charles Darwin wrote in The Descent of Man (1871): 'Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.'

Interestingly, really smart people also fail to accurately self-assess their abilities. As much as D- and F-grade students overestimate their abilities, A-grade students underestimate theirs.

In their classic study, Dunning and Kruger found that high-performing students, whose cognitive scores were in the top quartile, underestimated their relative competence. These students presumed that if these cognitive tasks were easy for them, then they must be just as easy or even easier for everyone else.

This so-called 'imposter syndrome' can be likened to the inverse of the Dunning-Kruger effect, whereby high achievers fail to recognise their talents and think that others are equally competent. The difference is that competent people can and do adjust their self-assessment given appropriate feedback, while incompetent individuals cannot.

And therein lies the key to not ending up like the witless bank robber. Sometimes we try things that lead to favourable outcomes, but other times - like the lemon juice idea - our approaches are imperfect, irrational, inept or just plain stupid. The trick is to not be fooled by illusions of superiority and to learn to accurately reevaluate our competence. After all, as Confucius reportedly said, real knowledge is knowing the extent of one's ignorance.

=========================================

... guess who is still blaming it on the Russians...

[Bill Ryan]

One study (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0001457586900047) found that 80 per cent of drivers rate themselves as above average - a statistical impossibility.

Yes. The problem with the world is that there are too many people of below average intelligence. :)

(That was a really great article.)

[Omni]

I think I could have figured out one of the prime motives behind flat earth. Added to my updated article: Here (http://www.psyop.info/2017/05/flat-earth-psychological-operations-the-flat-earth-psyop.html)...


• Misrepresentation of NASA opposition through flat earth PSYOPS: NASA is so full of **** it needed a massive co-opted opposition to better conceal it’s secrets (which are hidden in plain sight on the internet, often on flat earth sites now)
• Flat Earth discredits NASA Opposition, especially to the scientific community

Another comment of mine; I could see NASA intentionally doing things to flare up the flat earthers... :facepalm:

[mojo]

Not to justify a hypothesis but perhaps to explain, maybe the people that accept the so-called flat earth hypothesis are recognizing reality in a way that is different? Another hypothesis that is gaining in popularity, is that we are living within a larger matrix more like a computer simulation. The recognition that something is not quite right about this current 3-D model and so seeing this they put a name on it to try and explain it?

[Bill Ryan]

Not to justify a hypothesis but perhaps to explain, maybe the people that accept the so-called flat earth hypothesis are recognizing reality in a way that is different?

No: they're just irrational. Not an insult, but truly, in the precise definition of the word.


ir·ra·tion·al
i(r)ˈraSH(ə)nəl/
adjective

not consistent with or using reason

[Omni]

I got into it with a flat earth twitter account @flatearthcity, it produced some gems:


https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-b0_HeUvxpf8/WR9qNrBLYCI/AAAAAAAAGaM/kAbEBV4GPh85Sy6x8JkZIWVLapF1bWR2gCPcB/s1600/flatearth_debunked-rebuked-destroyed.jpg

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-vfmul8wX7l4/WR9xmH9_PGI/AAAAAAAAGaU/501RIKPtrhMRuRcD_SQQJrS5KxSw99chwCLcB/s1600/flatearth_debunked-rebuked-destroyed2.jpg

He actually retweeted my flat earth article to his flat earther followers twice:


https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xtAAkQLxLmA/WR91tdMaUcI/AAAAAAAAGaY/w7wnbD3N6FE2k3AkGxwParulyl4TO1FJgCLcB/s1600/flatearth5.png

:ROFL:

[Omni]

Bullet point addendum (http://www.psyop.info/2017/05/flat-earth-psychological-operations-the-flat-earth-psyop.html):


• It appears one of the objectives with the flat earth PSYOP is to make people believe that satellites do not exist, and thus further cover up one of the biggest actual conspiracies in the world, murderous satellite based directed energy weapon terrorism

[Ankle Biter]

Good point Morning Fox, however... If you can remember when this particular theory made it's way into the truther community.. It was all over the place out of nowhere. It went almost viral over night. And it kept being pushed for a long time. several years.
To me that's the signature of a psy op.

The thing for me is that there is a disproportionate representation in real life FE's compared to what I've encountered online. A poll on another website showed about 35% supporting FE hypothesis. Which statistically is a significant presence. However I'm yet to engage in conversation with someone in real life who supports this idea. Now I meet a lot of different people everyday and aren't afraid to talk about things that are not part of ordinary mainstream thought. Also if someone else is going to talk to me about things less ordinary I'm always careful to not belittle or impose "overstander" type behaviour and get all egotistical. I enjoy people who speak their mind and encourage conversation no matter how bizarre. But not a single person I've met has proven to be a FE'er. Maybe the time will come by the law of averages. Even if that 35% were 50% trolls that still leaves a good chance of meeting one. Better odds than meeting a South Paw and I am a South Paw. lol.

A psy-op it may be then. And so much media dedicated to it that perhaps many people are subscribing to the idea. Has anyone here met with and engaged in conversation in real life someone that believes the world to be flat?

[thedood73]

Here's an instant debunk of flat earth theory...the pole stars. Basically in the N hemisphere the night sky rotatesanti-clockwise around Polaris. In the S hemisphere the night sky revolves in a clockwise direction around Sigma octantis identified by The Southern Cross. This is because of the opposing perspective caused by standing upside down in relation to the opposing hemisphere... impossible on a flat earth plane
Flat Earth “Theory” And The Pole Stars Conundum-
https://chizzlewit.wordpress.com/2014/04/26/flat-earth-theory-and-the-pole-stars-conundum/

[Bill Ryan]

Has anyone here met with and engaged in conversation in real life someone that believes the world to be flat?

Great question. Not one, ever. They only ever appear online.

[justanotheralien]

I know that if one of those off-worlders took me on a craft and showed me the truth, THEN and only THEN would I accept that it's round.... :becky:Unfortunately, Maia, all sources of light will curve due to perception mechanics. The eye works as a lens and will curve even a "flat earth" if the distance between the eye and observed object becomes great enough. Both the sun and moon could be square for that matter and still manifest as round if these two bodies are away that far as we're been told. Same principle counts for all stars we're able to count.

For the record; square holograms will curve into a ball as well. It's all about perception and distance, in addition to what we believe we see and are taught to see. Which would proof only one thing and that is that we don't necessarily see what we see.

One more correction; and correct me if I'm wrong but I can't remember any scriptures saying "the earth is flat". Which makes me believe the "flat earth" concept was launched by people in the know and with the purpose of have it stand in the way for all of us.
We all remember school and that "in the old days people believed the earth was flat", don't we? Could it be the choice of words and definition itself that has truthers all together caught up in counting trees while not seeing the forest?

Today's "flat earth" concept comes without a cosmology other than "when you get to the edge you fall down", while in the old days there actually existed a cosmology in many cultures all around the world. It may not have been a true model but It wasn't called "flat earth".

If we pick our words, definitions and belief systems a bit more carefully there could be very little to argue in this flat earth/globe earth issue. The answer may be found somewhere in the middle. There IS a psy-op of course, but a bit too simple to go after those that question our current cosmology. There's hundreds of good reasons to question our perception of the physical reality that surrounds us. Look at NASA for Christ sake.

[Nick Matkin]

One study (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0001457586900047) found that 80 per cent of drivers rate themselves as above average - a statistical impossibility.

Yes. The problem with the world is that there are too many people of below average intelligence. :)

(That was a really great article.)


I hope I'm not repeating something already posted on this thread, but anyway...

Realise how stupid the average person is, then realise that half the population is stupider than that!

[thedood73]

Come to Glastonbury, its crawling with flat earthers, some of whom will rant and rave about it. My local pub had to put up a sign saying 'No Flat Earthers...'

[sheme]

I know of someone who walked around the Earth even across the Bering straits he travelled clockwise around the planet and never fell off how did that happen if the world is flat?

[enfoldedblue]

I personally know of two people that have gone flat. One I know really well. He was in the military for many years. When he left he began waking up. As he began to explore down the rabbit hole he realized the extent that he had been deceived by the TPTB. Anyway as he read about false flags, occult influence etc he started noticing a funnel effect that that seemed to be pushing him towards 1. flat earth theory and 2. Christianity.

He was aware that this was occurring however, as he continued to 'investigate' flat earth claims he became more and more convinced that it was real. The last time we spoke he was a pretty firm believer.

The other person I know because she was briefly dating a good friend. She is someone who when I first met was bright, open and super interesting. She was highly aware of the conspiracy side of things and was not afraid to share her views. However, over the last year or so (I only have internet interaction) she has come to embrace FET. Interestingly I have also noticed that she seems to have also embraced more right wing Christian ideals. Her posts seem increasingly angry and attack anything perceived as left leaning (example: acceptance of homosexuality) as part of the controllers agenda to corrupt our souls.

To me it seems this psy-op has been highly successful as it has ensnared two of the most open-minded questioning people I know.

[Zampano]

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36641814_10155560442111299_941904641753350144_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=b11f702e0adb280108d71541b3b906b4&oe=5BF604ED

[Omni]

I have revamped the OP with my psyop.wiki flat earth article.

[Bill Ryan]

I have revamped the OP with my psyop.wiki flat earth article.

:bump:

Yes. It's a major rewrite, worth reading carefully from the beginning.


Post #1, here. (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?94832-Flat-Earth-Psychological-Operations&p=1118231&viewfull=1#post1118231)