Trump is NOT the answer

[Dennis Leahy]

did you simply assign "Deep State" to Obama because he was from the other US political party, and that your major clue was, "if he's a Democrat, he's Deep State"...If you figured Obama out (not just that he was on the other political gang's team), why haven't you figured Trump out yet?

Dennis, in many of your posts you continue to advance the assumption that your readers somehow assume "Deep State" = "Democrat". I enjoy contemplating your posts but frankly you lose me a little bit when you continually push this assumption. First, the assumption is an oxymoron. "Deep State" is not partisan, by definition. Second, the implication you bestow on the reader--particularly those who either support Donald Trump or do not judge him to be a deep-state stooge--and/or who do not summarily dismiss him because he has an (R) next to his name --is the notion the reader subscribes to "Republican = Good", "Democrat = Bad." Your analogy is kind of like charging the reader with the belief that "the Commissioner of Baseball" = "New York Yankees..."

Yes, the term "deep state" has crept into the public lexicon and many people who understand the world through the propaganda arm of deep state itself (MSM) may equate "deep state" with "democrats". The irony is many of your readers, particularly those who support the current POTUS, are neither Republican or Democrat. I do understand the point you are making--but virtually everyone with whom I interact on this forum, even those who support Donald Trump, are fully aware that Rob Manfred (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commissioner_of_Baseball) is not part of the New York Yankees organization.


Have you ever actually looked at...Trump's actions?...didn't overturn the Patriot Act nor NDAA...

Presidents can't overturn or repeal Acts of Congress... the congress does that--and then the president can either execute or veto the Act--if and when Congress repeals the Patriot Act or NDAA and DJT vetos, I'm fully on board with your argument here--but regardless of whether or not DJT is a puppet of the Deep State, the claim that he hasn't overturned deep state legislation is not a very convincing argument by itself, in my opinion.


...brokered a huge arms deal to Saudi Arabia, knowingly attacked Syria with bogus "he gassed his own people!" lies known to be lies and exposed as lies by a few brave/crazy souls that wouldn't play along with the White Helmets and OPCW bosses lies, refused to help the Palestinian people and instead helped the genocidal Israeli government, finished off smashing Standing Rock for the oil companies, weakened the Clean Water Act and Clean Air Act (the last piece of either citizen-centric or eco-centric rather than corporate-centric legislation passed in the US), signed off on a foreign mining consortium that is well-known to be ecocidal and exploitative to create a sulfide mine in the headwaters of the Mississippi River, condones and praises torture, made racism safe again, made one of the most obvious 9/11 co-conspirators his personal lawyer, hobnobbed with Epstein and oopsie-doodle, suicided him for his own sake and all the other scum elite bastards that sexually exploit kids, and can't even successfully find and prosecute the DNC corporation operative that ordered the "Russian call girl pee pee" dossier or Seth Rich's murder.

As far as this entire paragraph goes, we can certainly discuss point by point if it serves the topic of this thread. And there is certainly some ground for agreement here. However, I would point out (with some degree of irony) that many of the points appear to me to be simplistic "partisan-like" spin on a much more complex dynamic.

As I often point out in these type of discussions, the United States Government is a colossal--I mean a vastly colossal corporate bureaucracy, with corruption deeply metastasized in every fiber of its over-reaching and rotting being. We can argue whether the current presidential administration is "at war with" or but "an extension of" said corruption, and this would be a valid discussion, also a complex and dynamic one. But to claim because POTUS has failed to root out all corruption and deep state shenanigans as evidence he is simply "more of the same" is not a very convincing argument, imho.

Hey, T, I appreciate your mind. I know you are a thinker, not just a regurgitator.

Rather than do the interspersed point-by-point reply, allow me to lump my reply here.
I see that you do understand that the deep state isn't partisan. I'd guess that if you did a forum search for those solely linking the Democrat corporation to the deep state, such as "DS/Dems", you'll find plenty. So, there are those that do still need a refresher course on who the deep state is, what the phrase means/meant before being hijacked by partisans. Always voting "against Democrats" in a binary system is Republican support, even if the person is registered as an independent, and exactly the same is true for "independents" that somehow seem to always vote against Republicans.

My bad on using the word "overturn", which has implications of the president having complete legislative power over Congress, but the gist is correct. Presidents have been subverting the Constitution increasingly over each successive regime turnover, in using Executive Orders to create policy (even if not correctly called "legislation.") And for those agenda items where the president somehow recognizes that the Congress needs to be consulted, the president champions an idea, like building a border wall between the US and Mexico. So, it's not correct to imply that Trump's hands are tied when he either doesn't even ask Congress (thus ignoring the issue, employing screaming silence as obfuscation), or doesn't expose and push Congress (the limp-wristed, "well I tried!" excuse.) Trump did not ask Congress to overturn the Patriot act and NDAA - and that is telling. It appears that "patriot" just means "agrees with and supports Trump", because there is simply no way that someone can be patriotic/support the Constitution and the citizens of the US and yet not be vehemently opposed to the Patriot Act and the NDAA.

"simplistic "partisan-like" spin"
I looked over the list of off-the-top-of-my-head issues with Trump, and other than the fact that is is obvious that I detest him as a person and as a president, I don't see what you see as partisan-like. The Democrats are warmongering imperialist corporatists; the Republicans are warmongering imperialist corporatists. I have made clear 100 times on this forum that these are a couple of evil corporations that are the public face of the Shadow Government/Deep State. Especially in a binary political system, to decry both mobster families (and the election system they control, and the mass media owned by the same Shadow Government) is about as far away from partisan as is possible. Any 'solution' I have proposed includes, as a key provision, eliminating political parties altogether. Saying that anything I write is "partisan-like" is about like calling me a black lesbian - the shoe doesn't fit. I'm stretching to see your perspective on this. Was it the "racist" accusation? I got that from listening to Trump's racist statements about Mexicans and Arabs/Muslims, not from the Democrat corporation also picking up on it. Most of the issues I listed are international aggression, which blows the Democrat mobsters skirt up just as high as it does the Republican mobsters skirt. Both wings in complete compliance to the Shadow Government decades-long agenda of imperialism, corporatism, full-spectrum dominance, hegemony, and full acquiescence to the military industrial complex corporations.

"But to claim because POTUS has failed to root out all corruption and deep state shenanigans as evidence he is simply "more of the same" is not a very convincing argument, imho."
As far as I can see, he hasn't rooted out any, much less all. I admit to not being able to stomach the "Q" propaganda, which I believe is the primary source for the supposition that Trump is actually going after the Shadow Government/Deep State, and not just (understandably) pissed off at the DNC corp. operatives within the system that smeared him sophomoricly, rather than addressing issues like torture as US policy, support of the MIC as US policy, support of massively bloated military which is used offensively and as as a corporate weapon, etc. The Democrat corporation can't go after Trump on major substance like foreign policy, because they espouse the same substance. Trump's actions prove he is indeed more of the same, maybe typified best by his attack on the sovereign nation of Venezuela, more of the same Shadow Government stomping out any socialism that springs up anywhere, as has been the underlying agenda since the McCarthy days and decades of war (slaughter, really) of anything that they can label "communism." I'll take the opportunity again to point out that the scariest concept for the elite is sharing, because they own the lion's share of land and resources, and it is what they claim as "theirs" that would be shared if any variant of communism or socialism were to emerge.

[T Smith]

Saying that anything I write is "partisan-like" is about like calling me a black lesbian - the shoe doesn't fit. I'm stretching to see your perspective on this.

Hi Dennis, in response to the above, my apologies if my comments imply I am calling you (or any of your writings) partisan... as an aside to the chuckle I got from your comparison, I would never call you partisan. I have been reading your posts for a very long time now and I know full well you are among the least partisan commentators on Avalon :) (You certainly don't make a secret of it). My comments are more in response to the last couple points you made about Trump "hobnobbing with Epstein" and having "him suicided," which seemed to me more like spin than reality; because Trump was once photographed with Epstein at a society party, or because he may have once said kind words in public about Epstein years ago, for whatever the purpose or reason, doesn't suggest to me he "hobnobbed" with Epstein, ran in Epstein's private circles, or is a pedophile. There is no evidence of that as far as I know. (If there were I would bet the farm relentless and vicious Trump detractors and their MSM lapdogs would be all over such evidence and would have beaten a much more concrete link between Trump and Epstein into our heads long ago...). Of course one with motive and agenda could still "spin" a random photograph of the two seen together in public or a comment made by Trump to imply a narrative suiting a slanderous agenda. But as far as my understanding goes, Trump was not among the many, many politicians and socialites who flew on the Lolita Express, nor did Trump ever visit the private island, etc. Those lists are long and wide and are posted in many places here on the forum. Trump is not on them. I also highly doubt Epstein had any dirt on Trump, nor did Trump have any real meaningful ties with Epstein. So there would also be no motive for Trump to "suicide Epstein..." So these comments sounded more like "partisan" spin to me, but since I know that is not your angle, I'm assuming either you (or I) may be misinformed on our respective viewpoints.

Moving on, I would make a similar point about Trump failing to prosecute the DNC corporation operative that ordered the "Russian call girl pee pee dossier" or Seth Rich's murder. I agree he has failed on this front, but it would seem to me he has failed not for a lack of trying or because he is secretly a deep-state stooge giving said criminals a pass. Hasn't Trump been angling to take down his detractors this whole time? Which, I would add, is a battle he is ill-equipped to win. Without the DOJ's willingness to do what is necessary, or the 100% commitment of all participants, witnesses, and actors involved to "battle the mobsters" to the death, as it were, there is just little-to-no path to victory there. For better or worse, I think Trump understands this and picks battles he thinks he can win, not battles that are feckless or might bear him embarrassment or drive him six feet under.

Even so, (to speak to another ire of yours) my understanding is Trump did dangle a pardon chip to Julian Assange if Assange would agree to reveal that Seth Rich was the Wikileaks source of the DNC hack, not the Russians... this would have been Trump's one silver bullet that may have--just may have--done the trick to bury the bastards (to channel the words of the greatly-missed Paul :) I'm certainly not agreeing with Trump's tactic if this is true--and if so, I am annoyed to learn Trump is holding a pardon over Assange to advance his agenda--I'm just pointing out Trump is trying to take down the pee-pee dossier criminals using less-than-clean tricks himself. He has merely failed. But not for the lack of trying.

To clarify the comments of my post, I do not take issue with the personal disappointments in the POTUS you laid out in your post; my disagreement lies in your dug-in stance implying Trump is not the answer because he is just another deep-state stooge carrying water for the PTB; this is not how I understand what is going on here. And whether we can agree or disagree on the varying line-item grievances we discuss when we assess Trump, the POTUS and person, I maintain he is a rouge actor in this equation and is trying on some fronts to root out the corruption and failing on others. On some fronts he is not present at all. All said, I do not subscribe to the notion he is just another a deep-state stooge. The evidence suggests otherwise to me. As such there is both potential and danger to both thwart or advance the deep state agenda.

Perhaps history will judge me naive, but for now let's agree to disagree on this last point...

Kind Regards,

T

[Dennis Leahy]

Ahhh, OK. Yes, that "had him suicided" was speculative.

The mainscream media did release the story of just Trump and Epstein and "28 calendar girls" at Mar Lago: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/party-planners-surprise-just-donald-trump-jeff-epstein-and-28-calendar-girls-2019-07-10 If nothing else, this (again) exposes Trump's character. I doubt that Trump jumped one of those girls - with 27 witnesses, but it is a pretty sleazy voyeuristic event to throw for yourself, that is, for yourself and and only your buddy Epstein and 28 "calendar girls." It's not proof of having Epstein silenced, even though we'd all have to admit that Trump certainly wishes that calendar girl event with Epstein had been - and remained - secret. Trump was rich enough (or had enough credit) to not need to go to pedo island, but rather to bring girls to himself. Again, not "suicided" proof, but proof of sleazy, low character at the very least.

I know that there are some people who believe Epstein - a quintessential sociopath - actually did kill himself. Sociopaths don't commit suicide. Someone would have to be as naive as a small town toddler to believe Epstein killed himself.

On reflection (didn't take much), I did overstep with that "had him suicided" comment. You're right - I did jump the shark there, and totally unnecessarily so, as there is plenty of uncontested, overt, history to assess Trump. A lot of bigwig pedophiles had a lot of reasons for ol' Jeff to "commit suicide." It did happen while in custody, with Trump as president, and with such an important witness snuffed, Trump (at the very least) lost the chance to glean a lot of data about bigwig pedophiles. So, to me, since Trump evidently didn't have the power - as sitting president!, with full disposal of alphabet agencies! - to find out who DID suicide him, then how can people believe that Trump is going to take down the Deep State? Doesn't that seem like a ridiculously silly notion if he couldn't even pick this low-hanging fruit?

My point is the same about Seth Rich's murder and who ordered the hit, as well as who ordered the pee pee dossier: this is comparatively low hanging fruit, and the Shadow Government/Deep State is like a herd of tyranosaurus rex compared to these mice. Trump & his 9/11 co-conspirator lawyer, and all the kings men, can't take down these criminals, then people have no business lionizing the guy due to his bluster and to believe he is going to take down the Deep State.

As for whether Trump is even aiming at the Deep State, we have to go back to what the Deep State/Shadow Government really is, and what their primary agenda is, and how they are actuating their agenda. Three US military generals and the USA budget tell us what the primary agenda of the Deep State is, and what their main tools are.

Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler told us all not only that "war is a racket", but admitted being duped into killing innocent people and taking over countries for corporations.

Gen. Eisenhower gave powerful testimony in his farewell speech, admitting that the Military Industrial Complex had already gotten out of hand and he knew they would wield "undue influence" (and we know they only metastasized exponentially after his warning.)

Gen. Wesley Clark told us after 9/11 that the then-current Pentagon brass didn't know what else to do other than to start a war. "If all you have is a hammer, everything starts looking like a nail."

The US military is the enforcement wing of the Deep State, doing their bidding (obfuscated, when necessary, with nebulous patriotic propaganda and demonization of a non-compliant foreign government heads of state.) The Deep State's major agenda is imperialism, resource theft, and (like the board game "Risk") geostrategic hegemony. It is accomplished using the US military. (Hey, who wants to pay a fair price for raw materials when you can get them for free by stealing them?) Socialism, or any other name for a government with foundational principles of sharing among the citizens rather than being funneled into oligarchs pockets, also needs to be wiped out, so some countries are destroyed or their governments are replaced with Deep State compliant puppets without a major geostrategic reason - except making an example of them, to dissuade other countries from becoming citizen-centric.

The US economy is outrageously dominated by purchases from the MIC. The US budget is dominated by MIC expenditure. Most large-scale non-military manufacturing was moved out of the US by corporate oligarchs, for greater profits, less (or no) worry about pollution, and wage exploitation of foreign workers. If Trump wanted to have a robust economy to ride to another term, (or just to be liked), the only short-term option was/is acquiescing to the Deep State's military agenda, and spearheading a nearly trillion dollar budget to go to the MIC. In fact, I believe they have painted themselves into a corner, (similar to Gen Clark's statement), and the only way at this point not to drop into a full-on economic depression/bust in the US was to prop up the economy's numbers through gigantic purchases from MIC corporations. He also had to pander to the fossil fuel cartel, but he was already an investor and they didn't have to twist his arm.

Rather than admitting that he was propping up the US economy from collapse by acquiescing to the Deep State's agenda, he pretends to be fighting the Deep State. Unprincipled, sociopathic, pragmatist, at best. The USA economy is now based on killing people, dropping bombs and shooting missiles...and then ordering another round of ammo and doing it again. And again. And again. A man of principle and integrity would have told the US citizens that there was going to be a major recession (at least), while the US tooled-up again to do its own manufacturing, and would have told US citizens that it would be wrong to continue on allowing the MIC and war to be the bulk of the US economy. Tariffs would be imposed (the only thing I agree with that Trump has done) or else no US-made goods could compete with the globalist's imports. But, none of that happened, because Trump is not a man of principle and integrity - he wanted to put one in the "win" column, and that meant dancing with the current military industrial complex corporations, the most overt sector of the Deep State.

He really is a pawn of the Deep State.

[onawah]

Trump "Coronavirus - Never Fear the Vaccine is Near"
Mar 3, 2020
2qboTbeRMns

[jaybee]

Moving on, I would make a similar point about Trump failing to prosecute the DNC corporation operative that ordered the "Russian call girl pee pee dossier" or Seth Rich's murder. I agree he has failed on this front, but it would seem to me he has failed not for a lack of trying or because he is secretly a deep-state stooge giving said criminals a pass. Hasn't Trump been angling to take down his detractors this whole time? Which, I would add, is a battle he is ill-equipped to win. Without the DOJ's willingness to do what is necessary, or the 100% commitment of all participants, witnesses, and actors involved to "battle the mobsters" to the death, as it were, there is just little-to-no path to victory there. For better or worse, I think Trump understands this and picks battles he thinks he can win, not battles that are feckless or might bear him embarrassment or drive him six feet under.


T


That's the way I'm thinking about all this and Trump -

He kind of parachuted into an established system that's dominated by 'mobster' like behavior and corruption, that has been deeply infiltrated by the Deep State Globalist who are working on their own agenda outside the democratic process - and there is a limit to what he can do especially when there is a Psychological Operation being waged against him 24/7 - and the MSM act as Gatekeepers spinning EVERYTHING into a negative where he is concerned - the only time he had a tiny bit of praise is when there was the token bombing in Syria after the chemical weapon hoax blamed on Assad --- Trump went on TV talking about 'beautiful babies' being gassed by the monster Assad and they (MSM and their paymasters) loved it - I think that at some point Trump probably found out he had been conned about it and wasn't pleased about that - but what can he do ? He is only one man surrounded by the enemy -

I feel that his detractors have an unrealistic view of what he CAN do and expect him to be a kind of Superman to combat the institutionalized corruption that is embedded in the system - then when he doesn't behave like Superman he is heavily criticized and hated -

At least Trump isn't trying to destroy America and kill American's - like the Globalists seem to be (ie advocating open borders and planning depopulation) -


The Globalists and New World Order are in both main Parties (ie the Republican Bushes) but I do think they have a much stronger grip on the Democrats and are using them as their political base at the moment....

[jaybee]

A man of principle and integrity would have told the US citizens that there was going to be a major recession (at least), while the US tooled-up again to do its own manufacturing, and would have told US citizens that it would be wrong to continue on allowing the MIC and war to be the bulk of the US economy. Tariffs would be imposed (the only thing I agree with that Trump has done) or else no US-made goods could compete with the globalist's imports. But, none of that happened, because Trump is not a man of principle and integrity - he wanted to put one in the "win" column, and that meant dancing with the current military industrial complex corporations, the most overt sector of the Deep State.

He really is a pawn of the Deep State.


He IS trying to keep the US economy afloat and may have to do things that you disagree with to do that - but the alternative might not be very good for the citizens of the US - ie Economy crash - widespread social unrest - massive increase in crime and poverty - I don't think he (or anyone) can do what you are asking - I myself would like what you are asking but the Globalists and Warmongers have too much of a grip and I think we have to be pragmatic about what's possible and what isn't -

I think Trump is trying to make manoeuvres in the direction you speak of but has to play it careful because of what he's up against -

Anyway perhaps the Corona Virus Thing will crash the economy and Trump will get the blame and all his detractors will be happy as they slowly die of the mysterious bio-weapon ... shaking their fists at the sky and cursing Trump with their last breath as the Real Perpetrators watch on with satisfaction of a job well done... ???

[jaybee]

Trump "Coronavirus - Never Fear the Vaccine is Near"
Mar 3, 2020
2qboTbeRMns


what a blummin nightmare this whole thing is - with the mysterious virus and then the inevitable clamor for a vaccine -
that will probably finish the job that the Virus started.... :(

I liked Trump's little quip at the end regarding the high numbers of deaths from regular flu and saying.... "I told the pharmaceutical companies you'll have to do a better job on that vaccine..."

I never have the flu jab myself and wouldn't trust a vaccine against Corona Virus - but how far will they go with it? Like would they make it compulsory for certain workers and then keep expanding out the compulsory part -

CAN there be a successful vaccine against a man made bio weapon virus....? They certainly won't be discussing THAT on the MSM...
Perhaps the Elite will have the top notch vaccine that works against it but the General Population will get 'something else' -

I could go on but I'm on paranoia overload now :)

As President, Trump will have no choice but to try and save as many lives as he can and if this means buying into the vaccination thing because there is no other option, he will have to do that - while crossing his fingers behind his back (even though the vaccine might not do any good in the long run)

[jaybee]

Everyone thinks they have an idea of what is going on but the truth is they only have what they have been told, or I should say fed! What they've been fed is agenda to groom them toward a particular course or action the leaders of this world want to go. Six people run the planet! Six! Three of those six are popes, the black pope, the white pope, and the one seen in the public by everyone! Who are the others? It doesn't really matter does it the fact is they run the show. Trump answers to one of those three, Hillary answers to one of those three, and every other prez or prez candidate or anyone in any position at all answers to them in the end! Q likely answers to them too if Q isn't one of them himself or herself!

They all work toward the same goal! That goal is to lead the sheep and the sheep don't need to know anything other than to follow their directions so they lead them right to where they want them! Trump leads the world in the exact same direction Obama took us painting blurry pictures for all to see so as to hide the fact he is actually on the same page as Obama in every way as far as doing the bidding of his masters is concerned. We still move toward the same new world order of a one world central bank and a one world government they always wanted and each day it gets closer to them reaching their goal! There seems to be a lot of smoke and mirror action with Trump shuffling people in and out so fast at times that it gets hard to focus but the fact is Trump answers to the same people Obama answered to.

By the way I knew Barry before anyone ever heard of him! Before he was a politician at all he was a "Bob Marley" wannabe and dressed like him too! And for that matter he smelled like him but the guy has never been honest about anything ever! Barry was a foreign student when I met him and he lived in Chicago at the time. My understanding when I met Barry and when my friend Harry met him, we both understood him to be from Nigeria as a foreign student going to school! He later lived next door to Harry my friend for over 10.5 years with Michelle and then when he got to councilman and started hanging with penguin suits suddenly Barry took on a new look after going to spa to get cleaned up, and Michelle smiled and showed her teeth for the first time and they were white!

Before this you never saw that side of either of them! Harry and I stood back and watched as the democratic party took this smelling foreigner off the street, cleaned him up and groomed him for president in disbelief much the same way they took Hillary early on when raw, sent her off to spa and next thing you know she is up there on the stage waving to someone like she knows them the same way all the others do! All phony! All taught to them just to deceive a dumb public to asleep at wheel or too busy struggling through life to see the con game these elitists play with us! Barry was a phony from the word go and we witnessed it! He told his mailman, who I know by the way, to his face that he was going to be president! Barry said that not as if, not as if I want to be prez, but point blank that he knew, he knew even then that he was set to be prez and said so to that man that I know and he has said this to me publicly and on tape that Barry did this yet no one hears! OUR ELECTION IS CRAP! HE was selected just like Trump was end of story~!


I enjoyed that post :)

The thing about Trump being selected though - if this were true wouldn't he have the teeny weenyist bit of support from the MSM who appear to be in complete tandem with, and controlled by, the Shadowy Deep State socially engineering the flock -

Whatever the good or bad about Trump I still feel his election victory was a nasty surprise to the Globalist Elite, who wanted Clinton -

Thank you. I believe that everyone is playing their role. Q even hints to this at times in posts made calling it a show all the time as if it is all scripted and one wonders based on the predictive accuracy if that isn't the case. It all indicates illusion of two sides when in fact there is just one dude behind both making each play their specific parts. At some point a larger part of the pop. will overwhelmingly come into the Trump camp to support him after the game plays out and one side falls. As a necessary part of the plan the plan requires the people to support it to drive it all home in the end so it has to be engineered to have support of the people behind the leader of the flock to work.

The people in this case will unknowingly demand the new world order just as I stated in another post. If they actually knew the facts of what was going on they'd never be behind it but the plan calls for making this old world order so uncomfortable, so horrid as to make the people demand change and then the people will literally shove the NWO right into place and the elitists close the gate and the hammer comes down on the world at that point cause the people walked themselves right into where the elitists running the show wanted them all along!

As I also pointed out when Trump took over he went right into North Korea, then Syria and he has been working both over and now Iran just as I predicted he would in 2016. He picked up right where Barry left off and once each of those last three countries with their own currencies falls they'll get new central FED banks and the new world order commences. I believe Trump was selected just to usher in their NWO!


So what you seem to be saying is that we are all doomed and nothing and no one can save us :)

I don't expect Trump (or Brexit) to save us but at least it's a bit of a fight back -

And if the NWO get their Agenda 21 and Agenda 30 or whatever it is... modern society will atrophy and fizzle out anyway -
The collapse of civilization is just round the corner as it always is - we won't be the first and we won't be the last -
Individuals are going to die anyway - none of us are going avoid that in these bodies -

so yes I supposed we are doomed :) - in the broad sense but can do we we can on a day to day basis - and hope for the best -

Cue for a song Monty Python Always look on the Bright Side of Life / Death...

I won't post it - you know how it goes - :thumb:

[T Smith]

That's the way I'm thinking about all this and Trump -

He kind of parachuted into an established system that's dominated by 'mobster' like behavior and corruption, that has been deeply infiltrated by the Deep State Globalist who are working on their own agenda outside the democratic process - and there is a limit to what he can do especially when there is a Psychological Operation being waged against him 24/7 - and the MSM act as Gatekeepers spinning EVERYTHING into a negative where he is concerned

Exactly right. I would take your cogent analysis one step further... the psychological operation isn't just being waged against Trump 24/7, but also against the people 24/7. The result is subtle and sophisticated propaganda/borderline mind-control NWO agitprop designed to instill irrational rage and hatred (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDYNVH0U3cs), i.e. (Orwell's Two Minutes of Hate, the role of Goldstein played by DJT (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvGmOZ5T6_Y)), in those who might otherwise maintain benign ideological or political differences, and especially among those with ideological and political differences most unaligned with the NWO agenda. The extremes of these generated aspersions range from Trump Derangement Syndrome to millions of people reduced to A Basket of Deplorables.

As far as I can tell, the progenitors of this psyop are currently deploying a mind-control weapon that affects us all, even those acutely aware of the psyop. The result has deeply divided people with moderately differing worldviews into bitter, quasi-violent tribal camps. This thread, among others on the forum, serves well to explore this dynamic.

I would challenge all to examine their hatred and direct their understanding and passions to the source...

[T Smith]

As President, Trump will have no choice but to try and save as many lives as he can and if this means buying into the vaccination thing because there is no other option, he will have to do that - while crossing his fingers behind his back (even though the vaccine might not do any good in the long run)

No power on Earth can stop or deter a fearful mob. The vaccine will push forward--likely manditorily depending on how much fear the underlying agenda can stir up among the people--regardless what Trump wants or thinks of it. I doubt the vaccine will save lives, but even if it saves some lives that may have been otherwise claimed by CoViD-19, it will kill, maim, and/or harm many more lives, either by design or otherwise (which is outside the scope of this discussion). Trump or any other leader will be left only to ride the wave on this one, wherever that wave takes us.

[Dennis Leahy]

If Trump was duped by his team or military brass into promoting and militarily acting upon the "Assad gassed his own people!" hoax, think about what that says. And, if anyone thinks Trump was a victim there, and now he knows it, why did he subsequently move troops into occupying Syrian oilfields - where they still are today. He also continues the Deep State rhetoric/propaganda about Assad. The objective is to prevent Syria from using their own best natural resource asset to rebuild their sovereign nation, the one who's refugees became the "refugee crisis" in Europe. Not allowing Syria to rebuild sure walks, talks, and smells like the Deep State globalists (I think more accurately noted as the Global Corporate Network.)

Since at least November of 1963, the CIA's tactic has been to hire hitmen rather than be hitmen. It works for plausible deniability and to obfuscate the origin of the vector of attack, and especially in foreign countries, only "local assets" can infiltrate. I hope that most of us are in agreement that the CIA are the visible face of, and high-level geostrategic managers for, the Deep State. I sure hope none of us are confused on that point. The CIA created alQaeda and ISIS, and used them as hitmen against Syria. CIA asset Barry was not able to check Syria off of the "7 countries in 5 years" hitlist that Wesley Clark told us about, but added the US military bombs and missiles to the CIA-fomented efforts to destroy much of the Syrian infrastructure (not the oilfields, notably) and cause a flood of refugees.

So, with eyes wide open, we note that Obama (using the US military as a tool) and the CIA tried to knock-off Syria (not just Assad), and create a flood of refugees - and we know this was Deep State operation (primarily geostrategic against Iran, and primarily for Israel.) If you give Trump a pass, saying that he was deliberately mis-advised about Assad "gassing his own people!", then are you also going to give Trump a pass for the continuing military occupation of Syria's oilfields, furthering the Deep State agenda? Why is it that Trumps affiliation with the Deep State and furthering Deep State agenda is somehow misrepresented as something other than assisting the Deep State?

Let's examine Venezuela for a minute. The Deep State "department of energy" is the oil syndicate. Venezuela nationalized its oil industry, "taking it away" from globalist oil companies. So it would make sense that the globalist's/Deep State's CIA would become involved (in the ways that John Perkins clued us into), and of course, they did. But why would Trump - if you believe he doesn't represent the Deep State and its interests - help the Deep State, doing everything possible to help destabilize Venezuela from the US government angle, such as freezing assets and creating sanctions (economic war via the US government), and using the power of the USA to recognize an obvious globalist (who will un-nationalize Venezuela's oil and "give it back" to the globalist oil syndicate, and end the social-ist programs funded by that Venezuelan oil) as the real president of Venezuela?

Trump is either a pawn of the Deep State, or a member of the Deep State, by his actions. If he is surrounded by Deep State and is really a good guy who cannot actuate his own goodness, but is forced to play along with the Deep State instead, then he IS a pawn of the Deep State and people should stop pretending he is something else.

I'm not expressing "hatred", I'm expressing dismay at my fellow citizens that fall for spin and propaganda and listen to pretty words instead of examining actions. I do have something akin to "hatred" for the psychopathic syndicate that controls (and owns) most of the world, the Deep State upper echelon, the US American Empire segment of the Global Syndicate, the Ruling Elite. I don't think it is misplaced nor unwarranted. I will again strongly recommend the Metanoia-Films.org documentary "The Power Principle (http://metanoia-films.org/the-power-principle/)" for everyone, and especially if you don't have a good understanding of who the syndicate is that causes hell on Earth and murders hundreds of millions of innocent souls for financial gain and for control.

[Ratszinger]

Everyone thinks they have an idea of what is going on but the truth is they only have what they have been told, or I should say fed! What they've been fed is agenda to groom them toward a particular course or action the leaders of this world want to go. Six people run the planet! Six! Three of those six are popes, the black pope, the white pope, and the one seen in the public by everyone! Who are the others? It doesn't really matter does it the fact is they run the show. Trump answers to one of those three, Hillary answers to one of those three, and every other prez or prez candidate or anyone in any position at all answers to them in the end! Q likely answers to them too if Q isn't one of them himself or herself!

They all work toward the same goal! That goal is to lead the sheep and the sheep don't need to know anything other than to follow their directions so they lead them right to where they want them! Trump leads the world in the exact same direction Obama took us painting blurry pictures for all to see so as to hide the fact he is actually on the same page as Obama in every way as far as doing the bidding of his masters is concerned. We still move toward the same new world order of a one world central bank and a one world government they always wanted and each day it gets closer to them reaching their goal! There seems to be a lot of smoke and mirror action with Trump shuffling people in and out so fast at times that it gets hard to focus but the fact is Trump answers to the same people Obama answered to.

By the way I knew Barry before anyone ever heard of him! Before he was a politician at all he was a "Bob Marley" wannabe and dressed like him too! And for that matter he smelled like him but the guy has never been honest about anything ever! Barry was a foreign student when I met him and he lived in Chicago at the time. My understanding when I met Barry and when my friend Harry met him, we both understood him to be from Nigeria as a foreign student going to school! He later lived next door to Harry my friend for over 10.5 years with Michelle and then when he got to councilman and started hanging with penguin suits suddenly Barry took on a new look after going to spa to get cleaned up, and Michelle smiled and showed her teeth for the first time and they were white!

Before this you never saw that side of either of them! Harry and I stood back and watched as the democratic party took this smelling foreigner off the street, cleaned him up and groomed him for president in disbelief much the same way they took Hillary early on when raw, sent her off to spa and next thing you know she is up there on the stage waving to someone like she knows them the same way all the others do! All phony! All taught to them just to deceive a dumb public to asleep at wheel or too busy struggling through life to see the con game these elitists play with us! Barry was a phony from the word go and we witnessed it! He told his mailman, who I know by the way, to his face that he was going to be president! Barry said that not as if, not as if I want to be prez, but point blank that he knew, he knew even then that he was set to be prez and said so to that man that I know and he has said this to me publicly and on tape that Barry did this yet no one hears! OUR ELECTION IS CRAP! HE was selected just like Trump was end of story~!


I enjoyed that post :)

The thing about Trump being selected though - if this were true wouldn't he have the teeny weenyist bit of support from the MSM who appear to be in complete tandem with, and controlled by, the Shadowy Deep State socially engineering the flock -

Whatever the good or bad about Trump I still feel his election victory was a nasty surprise to the Globalist Elite, who wanted Clinton -

Thank you. I believe that everyone is playing their role. Q even hints to this at times in posts made calling it a show all the time as if it is all scripted and one wonders based on the predictive accuracy if that isn't the case. It all indicates illusion of two sides when in fact there is just one dude behind both making each play their specific parts. At some point a larger part of the pop. will overwhelmingly come into the Trump camp to support him after the game plays out and one side falls. As a necessary part of the plan the plan requires the people to support it to drive it all home in the end so it has to be engineered to have support of the people behind the leader of the flock to work.

The people in this case will unknowingly demand the new world order just as I stated in another post. If they actually knew the facts of what was going on they'd never be behind it but the plan calls for making this old world order so uncomfortable, so horrid as to make the people demand change and then the people will literally shove the NWO right into place and the elitists close the gate and the hammer comes down on the world at that point cause the people walked themselves right into where the elitists running the show wanted them all along!

As I also pointed out when Trump took over he went right into North Korea, then Syria and he has been working both over and now Iran just as I predicted he would in 2016. He picked up right where Barry left off and once each of those last three countries with their own currencies falls they'll get new central FED banks and the new world order commences. I believe Trump was selected just to usher in their NWO!


So what you seem to be saying is that we are all doomed and nothing and no one can save us :)

I don't expect Trump (or Brexit) to save us but at least it's a bit of a fight back -

And if the NWO get their Agenda 21 and Agenda 30 or whatever it is... modern society will atrophy and fizzle out anyway -
The collapse of civilization is just round the corner as it always is - we won't be the first and we won't be the last -
Individuals are going to die anyway - none of us are going avoid that in these bodies -

so yes I supposed we are doomed :) - in the broad sense but can do we we can on a day to day basis - and hope for the best -

Cue for a song Monty Python Always look on the Bright Side of Life / Death...

I won't post it - you know how it goes - :thumb:

I would like it to be otherwise but as everyone can see right before our eyes the elitists are carrying on with their plans and depopulation is going on world wide it appears. If this coronavirus is what it is reported to be then it appears Trump has not stopped the plans they have told us were coming to fruition at all it's just biz as usual containing the herd. Sadly I do not believe any white hat dudes exist to save us. I think when you take a white hat guy and stick him in with a bunch of black hat guys that like putting good cells in with bad in a petri dish you witness those good cells turn bad right quick. Same way in D.C. as it is in a petri dish.

[RogeRio]

Trump is either a pawn of the Deep State, or a member of the Deep State, by his actions. If he is surrounded by Deep State and is really a good guy who cannot actuate his own goodness, but is forced to play along with the Deep State instead, then he IS a pawn of the Deep State and people should stop pretending he is something else.

may be much cartezian (yes-no, good-bad), which probably make it paradoxal.

Trump isn't a Iniciate, so he's not committed with Deep State cults (like iluminatti)
All US presidents are controlled by corporative Hidden Hands, all them are pawns..

Trump may be the less pawn and the less commited with deep State for some time
at least he says what he thinks, not what media wants him to say and do publicly,
but he obviously need to negotiate with powerful corporativism to be US president,
because none of them are 100% immune to such influences rooted in the system.

" a window of opportunity it is neither an entrance nor an exit big gateway "

[AutumnW]

Trump love is a religion. And many evangelicals are smitten because he promises to deliver them out of the **** show of everyday life as Moses promised to deliver the Israelites out of Egypt.

It boils down to belief and how this plays out. I give his believers this...they can look at this gasbag upside down, sideways and from every conceivable angle and if, during his current term they can manage to rationalize a treacherous goofball as a superlative human being, so be it. It's a forgivable delusion, at this point.

But come his next 4 years, when he will feel freer to act with impunity without having to pander in the leas to his voting bloc, watch the out. It's going to be a disaster for everybody, except possibly the most deranged theocrats and fanatics.

You have no idea how close you are to a full on overt fascist dictatorship right now.

[T Smith]

Trump love is a religion... I give his believers this...they can look at this gasbag upside down, sideways and from every conceivable angle and if, during his current term they can manage to rationalize a treacherous goofball as a superlative human being, so be it.

This is high praise (although I'm sure that's not your intent...) What power or quality do you suppose he possesses to elicit such beguiling and untenable allure?

[jaybee]

Trump is either a pawn of the Deep State, or a member of the Deep State, by his actions. If he is surrounded by Deep State and is really a good guy who cannot actuate his own goodness, but is forced to play along with the Deep State instead, then he IS a pawn of the Deep State and people should stop pretending he is something else.



I suppose the Deep State is seeking to make him a pawn in their power games and sometimes they succeed (for whatever reason) and sometimes they don't - maybe sometimes he let's them do it (in a deal making way) and sometimes he doesn't - sometimes he gets conned or acquesces because he needs the military on side or he would probably get ousted or assassinated pretty quick - I don't think it's an all or nothing situation - like with Syria - he was going to withdraw all the US troops then all hell broke loose from those who didn't want that - then he managed to pull the US troops out along the Northern border and all hell broke loose and the MSM went nuts accusing him of betraying the Kurds and sucking up to Russia - now he has compromised and kept 500 ish troops 'guarding' the Syrian Oil Fields - my own view is that those oil fields should be in Assad / Syrian control - but I don't know what has been going on behind the scenes to promp that decision - it might be to do with Iran and Israel somehow..? although it is sold about being to do with keeping a resurgent ISIS / IS out of them (the Oil Fields) - perhaps soon if he stays President for another 4 years he will manage to get the remaining troops out as he wanted to originally?
I just hope he knows what he's doing regarding the Oil Fields because Russia isn't happy about it and of course Assad / Syria isn't because the US doesn't have any right to be there -

Syria is a mess (thanks to the intervention of the US / UK etc) furthering the Globalist's plans to help create a Sunni lead Islamic State on the land (think that's what was basically going on) otherwise Assad and the Syrian Army could have mopped up the situation quite quickly with or without Russia's help - (?)



Trump is overseeing the end of the US war in Afghanistan (provided it all goes to plan and there aren't problems that stop it) and there is the (fragile) Peace Treaty with the Taliban that might or might not hold ...

Venezuela - I can't comment on that really but without the oil I expect no one would care what kind of government they have -

So - in conclusion, Trump might be unwittingly or knowingly a pawn of the Deep State sometimes - but they are bound to try and reign him in and control him - and with all his other duties he has to spend time on and all the negative spin and name calling and disrespect he has thrown at him 24/7.... he is still standing and even if it's only a temporary situation he has given the Political Elite and Deep State a run for their money :)

To compensate and punish us for Trump and Brexit and the rise of Populism in the West the Globalists appear to have accelerated their Agenda and now we have the Coronavirus Thing which is shaping up to be a BIG shake up world wide - :/ - to put it mildly :/

[jaybee]

That's the way I'm thinking about all this and Trump -

He kind of parachuted into an established system that's dominated by 'mobster' like behavior and corruption, that has been deeply infiltrated by the Deep State Globalist who are working on their own agenda outside the democratic process - and there is a limit to what he can do especially when there is a Psychological Operation being waged against him 24/7 - and the MSM act as Gatekeepers spinning EVERYTHING into a negative where he is concerned

Exactly right. I would take your cogent analysis one step further... the psychological operation isn't just being waged against Trump 24/7, but also against the people 24/7. The result is subtle and sophisticated propaganda/borderline mind-control NWO agitprop designed to instill irrational rage and hatred (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDYNVH0U3cs), i.e. (Orwell's Two Minutes of Hate, the role of Goldstein played by DJT (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvGmOZ5T6_Y)), in those who might otherwise maintain benign ideological or political differences, and especially among those with ideological and political differences most unaligned with the NWO agenda. The extremes of these generated aspersions range from Trump Derangement Syndrome to millions of people reduced to A Basket of Deplorables.

As far as I can tell, the progenitors of this psyop are currently deploying a mind-control weapon that affects us all, even those acutely aware of the psyop. The result has deeply divided people with moderately differing worldviews into bitter, quasi-violent tribal camps. This thread, among others on the forum, serves well to explore this dynamic.

I would challenge all to examine their hatred and direct their understanding and passions to the source...


Well said - and I agree it does affect us all - to keep some long term friendships intact it's usually best to just steer clear of certain subjects - like Trump :)

Trying to understand what's going on is a work in progress but so many intelligent educated people are just indulging in the knee jerk reactions promoted by the 'program' - (IMO)

[T Smith]

I suppose the Deep State is seeking to make him a pawn in their power games and sometimes they succeed (for whatever reason) and sometimes they don't - maybe sometimes he let's them do it (in a deal making way) and sometimes he doesn't - sometimes he gets conned or acquesces because he needs the military on side or he would probably get ousted or assassinated pretty quick - I don't think it's an all or nothing situation -

In the game of chess a player sometimes gambits or his/her opponent outmaneuvers and corners a group of pieces, rendering them feckless to the battle or forces an unwanted move. Depending on the strength of board position, etc., sometimes unequal exchanges are made; you win some, you lose some. Sometimes the player executes an outright blunder. Sometimes the tables turn between players multiple times in a single game, both for better and worse, depending on the strength or success of any given strategy or move.

The question here isn't who is winning or what the score is, or even how good the players are, but whether Trump is at the table, looking across the board at the Deep State, or on the table, a mere Deep State pawn.

I think you've answered that question nicely...

[RogeRio]

The question here isn't who is winning or what the score is, or even how good the players are, but whether Trump is at the table, looking across the board at the Deep State, or on the table, a mere Deep State pawn.

I will try to go a little further: A surely elite (banker) man once said to me, about economic crisis:


when everything runs fine, everyone earns some money and thrives moderately, but throught crisis, people lose what they have saved and we get more rich quicker.I have no doubt that Covid-19 health threat is being explored by elite bankers to create another (worldwide economic) crisis, similar to the 2008 crisis, but this time the focus began in China and not inside US, which is the richest country in the world.

Interesting to note that (supposedly forged) crisis start after Trump administration made several restrictions on chinese business with US trades from China.

elite bankers don't want to break the whole world at once, so they move around pieces on the board to get advantages on a game that they can only win if there are opponents to play with them until the end, and I think that's exactly why the (bankers economic crisis) game never ends.

in that sense, it seems to me that Trump has been more an opponent to match the Deep State than an pawn committed to losing the game in the first and obvious moves possible to be played in this economic pattern (as a chess).

his ambition to want to be a rich, big famous and a paternalistic good man, is somehow forcing his opponents to expose themselves more than perhaps elites would like to be exposed to public opinion.

[Ratszinger]

Most had no clue in what was going to be the outcome... including those who you would consider to be "the controllers at the very top" . Face it - they had no clue... and are still running around - like chickens - trying to figure out what had happened???

You make for a good Conspiracy Theorist... but they were blind-sided with the rest of the sheople... plain & simple: Trump took most by surprise!

No matter what happens they have a plan for it. One way or the other no matter what happens that they lose control over, such as Trump. Lets say they did get him out somehow and replace him with a leftist talking head. Just for argument's sake it doesn't matter which they pick on the left they'll all direct the course of their agenda toward the same ultimate goal of a one world government, and a one world bank and a triad system of popes calling the shots for the entire planet. The white pope, the black pope, and the one everyone knows and sees all the time. So far I see nothing to indicate this plan has been stopped. The triad system of the London banking, Vatican City religious arm and District of Columbia military arm of world power is still in place and functioning and no matter which prez was there that would still be the case. The controllers don't lose control when they dictate to both sides. What happens is screw ups by the ones they command where chips fall where they may on occasion but they always have back up plans.

[Dennis Leahy]

I do have to say that the 5 corporations that own and control the mass media are bloodthirsty warmongers and imperialists. It is understandable when you also recognize not only the Global Corporate Network that they are part of, but especially their particular connections between other corporations within the GCN. An easy example that became apparent years ago was when Saturday Night Live TV show would go after W Bush for his stupidity, but not for his wars (or 9/11.) It was pointed out that NBC was owned by General Electric, who made various "defense"/military items, including trigger mechanisms for nuclear bombs. NBC wouldn't bite the hand that fed them, and GE didn't want a socially influential anti-war comedy show airing. So it wasn't.

That's a pretty tame example compared to the overt pro-war propaganda that has come from the media since that time, and exponentially higher cheering on Obama and Clinton slaughters in Libya and Syria, and a fever pitch of anti-Russia pulpit pounding and resisting announcements of troop withdrawals recently. Don't believe for a minute that this is "Democrat" or "liberal" media; this is Global Corporate Network media or call it "New World Order Media."

Some Trump supporters might see mainstream corporate media (and all the "alt" media that has been infiltrated and flipped) as Trump-hating media, (or Republican-hating, or conservative-hating), but that misses the point that what they are is really war-loving war profiteers (and have shown that they would be, no matter who the president is.) I hope I'm expressing myself clearly here, because this is a very important distinction. I'm not saying that there isn't also Trump-hating going on in the media - he's a quintessential narcissistic megalomaniacal racist-classist asshole, nearly a cartoon character, who makes a very easy target. But the same media will cheer on his (or any Democrat's or Republican's) actions of warmongering and massive support of the military industrial complex - because of the media ties within the Global Corporate Network.

Just as I was disgusted with the propaganda-driven brainwashing that turned the left - the anti-war left, the real left - into spineless blobs dispersed to the four winds, I am disgusted with the current frothing-at-the-mouth warmongering and support of the MIC, which is being driven by "patriots", the duopoly electorate, and the media... and supported by almost everyone that has a managed stock market portfolio, because if their portfolio value has risen, they are helping to support the MIC (and the corporatist oil syndicate, big pharma, big Ag, etc.)

However powerful the media propaganda machine is though, it is up to each one of us to lift the veil and see the evil agenda of the psychopathic overlords (New World Order, Deep State, whatever the hell we want to call the upper level of planetary ownership and control.) If anyone watches the documentary that I keep mentioning (The Power Principle, even just parts 1 and 2), it becomes crystal clear that the Ruling Elite agenda supersedes partisanship entirely.

As I have said before, the Democrats have been (until recently) much better liars, and the Republicans much more honest and overt in supporting war and corporatism. The Republicans were overtly anti-worker, anti-environmental protection, pro-war, and pro-corporate since I became politically aware in my teens, which is why I have never supported Republicans. Falling for the binary choice thinking, and because the Democrats actually were pro-worker and pro-environmental protection and pro- civil rights, I voted for Democrats at first, then went through an epiphany and recognized all politicians as "left-handed liars" and "right-handed liars" and didn't vote for decades, then again fell for supporting Democrats when the US Supreme Court handed W Bush the presidency and the 9/11 plan unfolded and the war machine ramped-up to heart-breaking and mentally overwhelming levels, and I supported Democrats again for a few years. I'm totally cured now.

I am as stunned by my fellow US citizens indefatigable support and mental gymnastics to excuse Obama's actions as I am with my fellow US citizens indefatigable support and mental gymnastics to excuse Trump's actions. Just as the wisdom in the phrase, "follow the money", I will keep saying, "observe the actions, ignore the words" to my fellow US citizens. It's more than just "OK" to lift the veil and stop supporting both US political corporations and their elite-aligned hucksters, and to stop supporting the Military Industrial Complex and the Global Corporate Network that all US presidents and congresspersons support (and are rewarded by.)

[onawah]

I don't know if he had any intel to back up his theory, but Dark Journalist recently said that he thought there might be a strong third party candidate in the POTUS election who wouldn't be able to win, but who would be able to bring enough attention to some of the darker agendas of both the Reps and the Dems that would disillusion enough people into abandoning the whole two party premise that they are keeping each other in check, creating healthy competition, etc.
I don't know how all that works, but if Tulsi Gabbard were to run as a third party candidate, I think she might be tough and honest enough to do that, and it could be interesting to watch.
It's no fun hoping for nation-wide disillusionment in the two party system which was working somewhat in the past though no longer, but it might have a positive effect.
And perhaps the ridiculous amount of money being spent on this campaign might finally bring about some campaign reform demands that would have to be respected.

[Gracy]

Hi Dennis. Years ago a close, and VERY left leaning relative of mine who was furious as all hell about Bush Jr. invading Iraq, literally stunned me in defense of their man Obama destroying Libya with this lil bit of mental gymnastics: “As the world’s lone superpower, we have to fulfill certain international obligations”.

I see much the same with Trump now. Pretty much no matter WHAT he does, the faithful are going to continually perform similar mental gymnastics in defending his doing the exact same type of things.

Here’s my point: I agree with you probably 90+% on these matters, and I also share your passion concerning this ever ongoing doublethink phenomena throughout our history, but after a certain point, do you think beating that same drum with the same people over and over may start spilling over into wheel spinning?

By this point the Trump supporters are highly unlikely to suddenly stop and say “omg Dennis you’re right, our man Trump is really just another DS puppet just like you say”, and people like you and I are equally unlikely to suddenly stop and say “omg Trump is cleaning the swamp after all I was just blind to it”.

So in essence, what are we doing here?

[Dennis Leahy]

...
So in essence, what are we doing here?

I guess my best answer is that my heart and mind and spirit won't let me sit by silently.

At one time, decades ago, I thought hard about joining a Buddhist monastery (Tassajara Zen Mountain Center), and also visited Paramahansa Yogananda's Self-Realization Fellowship center in Encinitas, Calif. - with the idea to dedicate the rest of my life to my own spiritual development/enlightenment. Then I realized that, for me, that was the easy way out, and have felt that I needed to try to foment deep change towards a much wider enlightenment - that of humanity. There is a cabal working tirelessly to keep a veil (or is it a black bag) over our heads, protecting the status quo of wealth and power consolidation and enslavement by trickery, by their propaganda of selfishness - the opposite of love. I saw/see their message of selfishness as their Achilles' Heel, and Internet connectivity as a powerful tool of dispelling their propaganda.

Why I bother with this thread, or why I bother with posting at Avalon is because I recognize a bunch of like-minded spirits here (even if some have departed and some are pretty quiet), as well as those that willingly hold the black bag over their own heads. Plus, Avalon has thousands of guests reading posts, and I feel like I have a better chance of espousing truth and turning on some lightbulbs here, more than anywhere else I know of. How about you?

[Ratszinger]

Hi Dennis. Years ago a close, and VERY left leaning relative of mine who was furious as all hell about Bush Jr. invading Iraq, literally stunned me in defense of their man Obama destroying Libya with this lil bit of mental gymnastics: “As the world’s lone superpower, we have to fulfill certain international obligations”.

I see much the same with Trump now. Pretty much no matter WHAT he does, the faithful are going to continually perform similar mental gymnastics in defending his doing the exact same type of things.

Here’s my point: I agree with you probably 90+% on these matters, and I also share your passion concerning this ever ongoing doublethink phenomena throughout our history, but after a certain point, do you think beating that same drum with the same people over and over may start spilling over into wheel spinning?

By this point the Trump supporters are highly unlikely to suddenly stop and say “omg Dennis you’re right, our man Trump is really just another DS puppet just like you say”, and people like you and I are equally unlikely to suddenly stop and say “omg Trump is cleaning the swamp after all I was just blind to it”.

So in essence, what are we doing here?

We're all here for the same reasons really! To become better life navigators. "Calm seas do not make for skillful sailors" proverbs

[RogeRio]

I guess my best answer is that my heart and mind and spirit won't let me sit by silently.


soul nonconformist is the best trigger to make changes, so its a wise and legitm posture.

may worth to also remember this famous phrase


The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing

[T Smith]

Just as the wisdom in the phrase, "follow the money", I will keep saying, "observe the actions, ignore the words" to my fellow US citizens. It's more than just "OK" to lift the veil and stop supporting both US political corporations and their elite-aligned hucksters, and to stop supporting the Military Industrial Complex and the Global Corporate Network that all US presidents and congresspersons support (and are rewarded by.)

Agreed. Sometimes, however, these actions are more complex. I'm convinced Trump is a wild-card in the equation -- this doesn't dispel or disprove your overall thesis -- it just throws a curve ball to it.

Consider: The MIC encourages imperialism, conflict, and quagmire -- the ends matter not so long as its real objective focuses on the means, which is ever-expansive warfare and endless, never-ending conflict (https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2008/01/mccain-nh-would-be-fine-keep-troops-iraq-hundred-years/) veiled, as it were, by whatever the pretext du jour suits the political climate. This is the Military Industrial Complex model. Who cares what the fighting is about, what dictator or system of government said aggression is overthrowing; who cares about what human injustices the fighting is supposedly waged in the name of, what governments require "regime change" due to ideological injustice to their subjects, etc., etc., or--here's an even more radical idea--who cares what resources are at stake or what oligarchic greed said aggression is supposedly propping up to enrich itself? These are all varying levels of pretext to ensure the MIC machine continually feeds itself and its real objective--which is never-ending conflict and warfare. The objective is conflict. This is the MIC model. The righteous, the greedy, and the politically impassioned can fight over a stake in equation, as long as the algorithm continues to run and churn out fat results.

This is where some misjudge Trump and why he is different, imho, and why Trump sometimes butts heads with MIC and MSM. He has his own agenda (shocking as it is--what?) potentially at odds with the aforementioned MIC agenda, when the only real objective is to feed the machine. Previous POTUS's and leaders fall in line with the real agenda. Not so, Trump. He follows the MAGA agenda, which is a grotesque amalgomaiton of populist idealism and what his DS handlers can get away with advancing, so I would submit Trump is potentially dangerous to the MIC. Yes, he loads up on all the tools and proves MAGA USA is a profitable consumer (which is why he is often confused with being a shill for the PTB), but he is nonetheless a rogue consumer of MIC wares, consuming off the reservation. Trump's objective is his objective, to wage war and win at whatever objective suits his policy agenda, not MIC policy agenda. Often these agendas cross, which is why some judge Trump to be a puppet of the corporate Global Network and MIC.

We can see this dynamic at play when Trump attempted to pull out of Syria, and now again with the Taliban peace agreement and pulling troops out of Afghanistan. As far as Trump is concerned (unlike the late McCain/Obama et. al who did carry water for the PTB) , there is just no reason to be there...

Trump isn't afraid to evoke the arsenal of MIC, but he'll do it on his terms and in his own way. This is either a terrifying or encouraging prospect, depending on one's perspective.

[AutumnW]

TSmith,

I'll make this as brief as I can make it. Your post above is bang on, imho. But I see Trump and his pals installing something worse than the Deep State status quo, and not entirely divorced from it. Military theocrats are just itching for his next 4 years. The tip of the spear of the military are the most radical "Christians" You see what he is doing now as encouraging. Many see it as terrifying.

[Gracy]

Why I bother with this thread, or why I bother with posting at Avalon is because I recognize a bunch of like-minded spirits here (even if some have departed and some are pretty quiet), as well as those that willingly hold the black bag over their own heads. Plus, Avalon has thousands of guests reading posts, and I feel like I have a better chance of espousing truth and turning on some lightbulbs here, more than anywhere else I know of. How about you?

That close relative I mentioned earlier, who unknowingly performed mental gymnastics to justify his man Obama's destruction of Libya while despising Bush Jr. for doing the same, is what they call an "any blue will due voter".

There's no changing that, so I no longer try, our relationship would be at risk if I did.

My dearest friend in this world. She's the polar opposite, a good old fashion born and raised Kentucky republican. Democrats are the problem, republicans are the answer, and Trump is basically a republican super hero.

Here again, there's no changing that, so I no longer try, our relationship would be at risk if I did.

Both of these relationships are far more important to me, than risking them by trying to make them see certain things the way I see them.

Now a forum like this is of course different, we're all here to openly discuss challenging and controversial issues, but at what cost, and to what ends do we go, to try and prove ourselves correct over others on any given issue?

Once our case has been thoroughly laid out that is.

[AutumnW]

Hi Dennis. Years ago a close, and VERY left leaning relative of mine who was furious as all hell about Bush Jr. invading Iraq, literally stunned me in defense of their man Obama destroying Libya with this lil bit of mental gymnastics: “As the world’s lone superpower, we have to fulfill certain international obligations”.

I see much the same with Trump now. Pretty much no matter WHAT he does, the faithful are going to continually perform similar mental gymnastics in defending his doing the exact same type of things.

Here’s my point: I agree with you probably 90+% on these matters, and I also share your passion concerning this ever ongoing doublethink phenomena throughout our history, but after a certain point, do you think beating that same drum with the same people over and over may start spilling over into wheel spinning?

By this point the Trump supporters are highly unlikely to suddenly stop and say “omg Dennis you’re right, our man Trump is really just another DS puppet just like you say”, and people like you and I are equally unlikely to suddenly stop and say “omg Trump is cleaning the swamp after all I was just blind to it”.

So in essence, what are we doing here?


There was no reason to kill Ghaddafi. It was a blood thirsty move by Obama and Hillary Clinton to satisfy God knows what exactly. And just watch the she-monster pop up as Biden's VP should he be elected. Very low chance of that!

I don't know about y'all but what I'm doing here is hoping that some readers file away the points we are making and prepare themselves for the next 4 years. If the pro Trump crowd are able to hold some of it in their minds, along with their powerful beliefs in Trump, without their heads exploding from cognitive dissonance, its worth the time and effort.

For those of you who feel Trump is going to make a positive difference in your lives, just please hope for the best but prepare for the worst...at least mentally.

I never thought Obama could make significant change, Gracy, but I DID like him as a person, until he chose his cabinet -- all bankers. Subsequent statements he made and offhand jokes about killing his daughter's date with a drone strike if he stepped out of line (Yeah, ha ha ha) had me detesting the dude. Of all the presidents in the last 100 years this one is the slickest pychopath. Not just a tool of the Deep State but a very very cold fish.

My lefty friend complained about illegal wars in Middle East but had shares in Raytheon. When we discussed how they made bombs that killed innocent civilians, including children, she replied, "I know. It's terrible, but the returns are fantastic, so I really can't sell!" Unbelievable.

[onawah]

Several similarities in our stories, Dennis.
My first spiritual teacher back in my Flower Child days was a man who had been a regular for years at SRF when Yogananada was still alive.
He also helped facilitate my first introduction to conspiracy theory, as he had served in the Air Force and had a pretty high security clearance.
He was a technician on those US military planes that circled the globe and carried nukes during the Cold War.
I heard some discussions between him and my partner at the time, a Marine Vet who also had high security clearance, about various classified technologies including mind control, teleportation, etc.
I used to frequent Green Gulch Zen Center (associated with Tassajara) when I lived in Marin County, CA, and I lived at a small Zen Center/commune in the mountains of Virginia for over a year.
I was torn for a long time between the sequestered, contemplative life and living in the world; I could still do the former at this point if I found the right place to do it, or possibly even a self-sustaining intentional community.
But I've lived in the world for the most part, though I've also attended meetings of various meditation groups, taken classes (such as at the U. of Trees), etc. along the way.
It's not so hard to find people devoted to a spiritual path, but finding people who are also "conspiracy theorists" is a lot trickier.
They seem to pull one in opposite directions at times.
It's led to a life of isolation in my small, rural part of the world, but I tend to be something of a hermit in any case, as INFJs often are, so that's also been somewhat intentional.

I must say though, that the 2016 election has created so much division and conflict, I sometimes feel more like I HAVE to stay mostly confined these days, as publicly voicing opinions such as I hold can lead to major ostracism, and I've managed to avoid that so far, at least.
I've stayed on Avalon for the same reasons as you, though I can get really frustrated at times with it.
But I try to take what works and leave the rest, which usually serves well enough.
And I continue to find new and important information here about various relevant subjects presented in an organized, easy to navigate venue, all in one forum, and I've not seen that anywhere else either.
(But I'm still spending way too much time here! :sad: Internet addiction is another topic, however, and a different kind of conflict. :smash::ballchain: )



...
So in essence, what are we doing here?

I guess my best answer is that my heart and mind and spirit won't let me sit by silently.

At one time, decades ago, I thought hard about joining a Buddhist monastery (Tassajara Zen Mountain Center), and also visited Paramahansa Yogananda's Self-Realization Fellowship center in Encinitas, Calif. - with the idea to dedicate the rest of my life to my own spiritual development/enlightenment. Then I realized that, for me, that was the easy way out, and have felt that I needed to try to foment deep change towards a much wider enlightenment - that of humanity. There is a cabal working tirelessly to keep a veil (or is it a black bag) over our heads, protecting the status quo of wealth and power consolidation and enslavement by trickery, by their propaganda of selfishness - the opposite of love. I saw/see their message of selfishness as their Achilles' Heel, and Internet connectivity as a powerful tool of dispelling their propaganda.

Why I bother with this thread, or why I bother with posting at Avalon is because I recognize a bunch of like-minded spirits here (even if some have departed and some are pretty quiet), as well as those that willingly hold the black bag over their own heads. Plus, Avalon has thousands of guests reading posts, and I feel like I have a better chance of espousing truth and turning on some lightbulbs here, more than anywhere else I know of. How about you?

[jaybee]

I don't know about y'all but what I'm doing here is hoping that some readers file away the points we are making and prepare themselves for the next 4 years. If the pro Trump crowd are able to hold some of it in their minds, along with their powerful beliefs in Trump, without their heads exploding from cognitive dissonance, its worth the time and effort.




That works both ways you know - :)

You are taking and presuming a position of superiority from the outset and I think that this is a component of the Psychological Operation against Trump - to instill those feelings in his detractors - in essence you view those who see it all differently as being in the Basket of Deplorables... !! (correct me if I'm wrong about that but have a good old contemplation on the point I'm making first - without your head exploding :nod:)

This automatic presumption of rightness and superiority is something that the PSYOP has tapped into and is exploiting - humans love and need validation and these are primitive needs - disagreeing with his policies and direction of his Presidency is a separate issue...

This is why (IMO) people find it so easy to call Trump names and insult everything about him - because they think they have the right to do that - indeed the DUTY to do that-

Now see what you've done with your presumption of superiority - :bigsmile:
(you're not the only one with that presumption)

And I recall T Smith's words in a previous post.....

"As far as I can tell, the progenitors of this psyop are currently deploying a mind-control weapon that affects us all, even those acutely aware of the psyop. The result has deeply divided people with moderately differing worldviews into bitter, quasi-violent tribal camps. This thread, among others on the forum, serves well to explore this dynamic."



:peace:


:grouphug:

[jaybee]

However powerful the media propaganda machine is though, it is up to each one of us to lift the veil and see the evil agenda of the psychopathic overlords (New World Order, Deep State, whatever the hell we want to call the upper level of planetary ownership and control.) If anyone watches the documentary that I keep mentioning (The Power Principle, even just parts 1 and 2), it becomes crystal clear that the Ruling Elite agenda supersedes partisanship entirely.


I couldn't agree more -

I started watching the first part of the video you recommended last night - so thanks for that -

link

http://metanoia-films.org/the-power-principle/

[jaybee]

Most had no clue in what was going to be the outcome... including those who you would consider to be "the controllers at the very top" . Face it - they had no clue... and are still running around - like chickens - trying to figure out what had happened???

You make for a good Conspiracy Theorist... but they were blind-sided with the rest of the sheople... plain & simple: Trump took most by surprise!

No matter what happens they have a plan for it. One way or the other no matter what happens that they lose control over, such as Trump. Lets say they did get him out somehow and replace him with a leftist talking head. Just for argument's sake it doesn't matter which they pick on the left they'll all direct the course of their agenda toward the same ultimate goal of a one world government, and a one world bank and a triad system of popes calling the shots for the entire planet. The white pope, the black pope, and the one everyone knows and sees all the time. So far I see nothing to indicate this plan has been stopped. The triad system of the London banking, Vatican City religious arm and District of Columbia military arm of world power is still in place and functioning and no matter which prez was there that would still be the case. The controllers don't lose control when they dictate to both sides. What happens is screw ups by the ones they command where chips fall where they may on occasion but they always have back up plans.


It looks like you are probably right and they are treating the Trump Presidency as a spur into action - doubling down on and speeding up their agenda.... this doesn't mean that Trump is part of their outfit but they are making the most of the situation and trying to use him for it - they probably enjoy the challenge it must be a bit boring when everything is so easy :) easy fooling the masses and manipulating them - Trump and Brexit has given them something to get their teeth into -

The adverts on British TV have started pushing a mixed race eugenics programme - the transgender thing is cranking up and with the 5G roll outs the transhuman part of it all is getting going...???

Then we have the Corona Virus and as yet we don't know how that will pan out - perhaps that's their counter attack - biological war waged against the whole world that need teaching a lesson... needs throwing into chaos for (their) order to be implemented... (grrrr)

I've said before, elsewhere - that the citizens of the West shouldn't expect any more mercy than has been shown to the citizens of Iraq, Libya and Syria (to name 3 countries under Globalist manipulation and attack)..... our turn could be just round the corner - dunno - I hope not but like you say - they DON'T give up and are NOT giving up any time soon -

[RogeRio]

Now see what you've done with your presumption of superiority - :bigsmile:
(you're not the only one with that presumption)


a old wise hint teach -- " is through presuming that people fall out on disagreement. "

It's interesting to note that from this (presumed) "superiority", It delivered the lowest types of moral attacks that have been seen in the political history of modern times. The Fake News Era grow fast.

if one say that they are being superior in the inferiority practice, may be a good way to judge that superiority (of moral violence), because out of the malicious moral argues, they have not much (political) interests to argue, unless human rights blah-blah-blah, climate change blah-blah-blah, multiculturalism blah-blah-blah, gender ideology blah-blah-blah, host mass refugies blah-blah-blah, blah-blah-blah ..

the results of mind control it's exactly make people not think well what's really going on, supporting what's don't matters much by making lot of insane noise to confuse who thinks with mere biased opinions.

so, the question is -- who uses such strategy deserves a vote ?

I think Trump was elected because of this .. Bolsonaro (Brazil's president) too.
(of evils, the smallest)

[TomKat]

While I was not shocked by Donald Trump's comments about women and minorities/immigrants I was and am shocked by the lack of concern over these comments by many. I know that people are racist and sexist and homophobic and many other not so nice things. It's just that in a civil society I thought we at least tried to rise above our more base nature's and when we are caught frolicking in the muck we at least try to apologize and do better, especially when we are looking to be a leader of not just other macho white men but everyone. When people in power behave in a way that suggests only a certain segment in society is worthy of respect I do find it frightening. I don't think that's an over reaction. I don't want a return to the 1950's or before in terms of women or minority rights so language does matter to me. I am happy that Trump won in the sense that it meant we didn't get Hilary. I am nervous about what someone like him means for civil rights though. The LGBT pages have already been removed from the White House website.

Most of the "outrageous" things Trump supposedly said are "rehypothecated" from original out-of-context quotes or things he supposedly said 20 years ago in a private, not public, forum. They essentially misrepresent then feign outrage at that misrepresentation, etc., ad naseum. It's not about Trump, it's about the HATE SPEECH of the Dems who will do or say anything to put Trump in a bad light. All because they lost an election, which they immediately set about trying to reverse. Yet, the Repubs don't seem to be responding with equal hate speech. Wonder why that is?

[Dennis Leahy]

Gracy May - I see that untruth and misrepresentation and omission of facts (everywhere, not just on this or other forums) is repeated ad infinitum: the strategy Goebbels spoke of. So, stating one's case and dropping it is ineffective. The advertising adage is that something needs to be presented at least 3 times for it to be remembered. I think we do need to state our case multiple times, not with the exact repetition that might be necessary to break through a barrier with non-thinking regurgitators (not who I bother to address), but presenting various angles and examples to underscore the premise.

Where I agree with you is the futility of intellectually squaring-off with one person (like I have seemingly done here with T Smith), and believing I can "flip" him. That would be folly. But, he is very bright and espousing his observations and analysis here, and I strongly suspect "speaks for others" that may hold some of the same opinions, observations, and analysis. So, addressing T isn't really just addressing T (as is true for him addressing me and yet also speaking to those that may hold similar opinions, observations, and analysis as mine.)

But do feel free to smack me up side the head with a dead fish if I do fall into the trap of ego-driven need to feel right or "win" a debate contest. I'm not immune, and have a few fish-smack marks on my head already.

[Dennis Leahy]

Because of the way that the Democrat corporation and the media outlets that fly the Democrat corporate flag (due to their corporate interconnections within the Global Corporate Network) so rabidly attacked Trump's character and him as a person (note again, they didn't attack him for his support of the MIC), when someone demonstrably less rabid (like me) underscores Trump's character, I think it is easy to lump that person in with the Democrats/Democrat-supporting media, and dismiss them as such.

I haven't had television in years, and only know about people like Rachel Maddow through the brief snippets of her grotesque schtick that I have endured in video clips. I'm against capitol punishment, but Hillary - who I think may have been the prime instigator of "Russiagate" - and those who amplified and repeated it, deserve punishment in the realm of the gallows for deliberately abusing their power and privilege to fabricate a nefarious narrative that put Russia on its heels and made Putin declare Russian possession of hypersonic missiles, incapable of being stopped by US current technology, as well as the demonizing of a nation to further fuel the MIC and a new cold war. I see Russiagate as a war crime.

Hopefully, that is enough of a disclaimer that when I highlight some of the reality of who Trump is, at his core, as a person, using what he himself said prior to the 2016 election, before anyone can say that military brass or a sense of forced obligation to the MIC molded Trump's words and actions, my words (highlighting Trump's own words) won't be dismissed as partisan poop.

I think that the statement Trump once made about "grabbing a woman by [her genitalia]" has a much more powerful message than the overt misogyny: take the same words and substitute male genitalia, and what becomes clear is classism, the power of wealth and the power over others inherent in being wealthy. Chest thumping plutocracy. I think this should be disturbing to about 99.9% of the US citizenry that aren't wealthy and never will be - and thus will never share in power over our own governance, or even have the power to deal with such a person on a business level. The "art of the deal" is not so impressive when you stop to realize that the wealthy can - and do, and Trump has - force an unfair deal, underpay an invoice, or even stiff a contractor that needs to be paid something or stands to lose their company. "It's just business" is a poor excuse for unethical behavior by the wealthy.

Another real stand-out for me was in campaigning (and after saying he was going to get to the bottom of 9/11), that trump, in a couple of phrases fired-off in campaigning, followed the official US government script on 9/11, participating in the (military tactic) of declaring an enemy and dehumanizing that enemy. It might help to see this in context, if you watch a video of Mike Prysner (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6L9NTpkYnI) first, mentioning how this dehumanization of a declared enemy is how soldiers can commit atrocities and believe they are doing good.

Once you watch/listen to Mike Prysner (please do), then please watch this short clip of Trump on the 2016 campaign trail. I have posted the same clip, recently, to underscore Trump's vehement support of torture - which in my mind, should have been enough all by itself to remove Trump from any imagined "good guy" list. I have no words to really describe the depth of my embarrassment, my shame, at being a US citizen, when this current and the previous two presidents took torture out of secrecy, codified its legality, and made it into US policy. So, the clip is a two-fer, highlighting Trump's core character:

FSnR6EJlK6E

Again, 1.) note his acquiescence to the official 9/11 narrative, declaring an enemy and using fearmongering to paint a picture of [Muslims/Arabs - implied, using "Middle East"] as a group enemy, painting them as scary monsters/dehumanizing them:

"They're chopping off our heads in the Middle East. They want to kill us. They want to kill us. They want to kill our country. They want to knock out our cities. ...They're chopping off heads. ... Our country's in trouble. We're in danger. We have people that want to do really bad things..."

and 2.) gleeful acquiescence to torture as US policy, and a desire to increase the degree of torture. (This is some really sick sh!t, and if anyone is as morally bankrupt as this and agrees with this, then they too are mentally ill, as well as ignorant that the rules in the Geneva Convention were supposed to protect your own country's soldiers from being tortured.)

Now, please don't anyone try to counter with the fact that the moderator used the word "terrorists", because (if you listened to Mike Prysner) anyone that did not obey soldiers was arrested and all "detainees" are treated as "terrorists." The same way that anyone in occupied land is re-framed as an "insurgent" (and killed or arrested and tortured) if they dare question the authority of the occupying force.

Trump's own words show his character, his core. I despise him as a person because of what he exposed of his core character - not what some talking head on the TV that I don't even own said. Trump's own words - pre-election. I feel this is necessary to expose, to prevent excuses for Trump's actions, which are consistent with the words he spoke before being controlled by "Deep State" or military or MIC forces already entrenched in the system/swamp before the 2016 election.

[Frank V]

I think this one belongs on this thread... :P



───────────────────────────────


Source: ELSEWHERE (https://www.elsewhere.co.nz/absurdelsewhere/9275/the-covfefe-virus-2020-more-dangerous-than-sars-and-the-coronavirus/)




THE COVFEFE VIRUS (2020): More dangerous than SARS and the Coronavirus


https://elsewhere.scdn3.secure.raxcdn.com/images/v95000/articles/photo-1579781403337-de692320718a-1.jpeg



An announcement today by WHO (World Health Officers) has confirmed that the Covfefe Virus is now a global pandemic as it spreads unchecked.

The virus – which is considered an extreme and aberrant form of what was called Benito's Disease which appeared in the Thirties in Italy – has spread at an alarming rate in the past five years.

It now infects most Western nations, areas of South America, Indonesia, Russia and the Middle East.

Dr Mohammad Lee of the Institute for Research in Infectious Diseases in Bonn noted that Covfefe first appeared in isolated pockets in the US in 2015/2016 and seems to have been spread by a single individual.

“Our Typhoid Mary of Covfefe, so to speak, seems to have been extremely mobile during that period and spread the infection into communities in the Midwest initially and then right across the continental United States.

“It is an extremely virulent disease and unlike most others isn't solely spread by human contact. In fact, many of those infected actually self-isolate or congregate with those similarly infected.

“What makes this virus unique is that it's transmitted by social media.”



https://elsewhere.scdn3.secure.raxcdn.com/downloads/images/2020/deadly.jpg


Symptoms of the disease were initially identified as arrogance, bullying, self-entitlement, congenital lying and a lack of self-awareness.

Over a remarkably short period of time however these traits have morphed into sexism, racism, a proclivity towards violent acts with little or no understanding of consequences and the infected person's innate belief in themselves as being right in all circumstances.

“The great concern now,” says Dr Mary Jean d'Arc of the Sorbonne's Infectious Social Media Unit in Paris, “is that through Twitter, various apps and algorithms which are instant and often seemingly persuasive, lies spread around the world like invisible drones while the truth is still eating its granola.

“We have located a key player in all of this whom we identify only as DT@WHinDC, but it is the infected who are the most active in spreading this almost uncontrollable disease.

“There are whole media networks which are very foxy in how they disseminate the misinformation which spreads the Covfefe Virus.”



https://elsewhere.scdn3.secure.raxcdn.com/downloads/images/2020/The_Covfefe_Presidency__34287334213_.jpg


While no nation yet has gone into complete lockdown to prevent the spread of the virus some countries -- notably the US and Britain – are moving towards an isolationist policy, ironically not to prevent the spread of the disease globally but to embed it within their own borders.

“By doing that Covfefe has the ability – through global media, travel of infected individuals and social media – to become even more powerful,” says Dr d'Arc.

As the virus has mutated there have been off shoots such as the recently identified Quixote Disease in which the infected individual imagines dangerous monsters and giants where there are none, and Munchausen's Syndrome in which those at the most serious end of the spectrum believe themselves to be superhuman and capable of incredible feats, despite all evidence to the contrary.

Rare individuals such as DT@WHinDC appear to have all of these.

When asked how people can best protect themselves from Covfefe and its mutations, University of Bristol researcher Dr Fiona Greenbelt expressed frustration.

“Christ, I don't know. Read a goddamn book? Get yourself educated? Don't believe the bull****? These seem pretty obvious to me . . . but frankly it's depressing. This thing looks out of control now.



https://elsewhere.scdn3.secure.raxcdn.com/downloads/images/2020/photo_1579781403337_de692320718a.jpg


“It's like this great orange-coloured dragon dragging a golf-cart full of psychotic dysfunctionalism which has mutant offspring with wild hair and profound self-belief in their own sense of what's best for everyone else. But, in truth, they are doing what's best for themselves.

“It's a disease which began as a psychosis but has taken on a political and social dimension.

“Seems madness is contagious after all. I'm heavily into self-medicating these days.

"Got anything good and strong?”


Source: ELSEWHERE (https://www.elsewhere.co.nz/absurdelsewhere/9275/the-covfefe-virus-2020-more-dangerous-than-sars-and-the-coronavirus/)

[AutumnW]

I don't know about y'all but what I'm doing here is hoping that some readers file away the points we are making and prepare themselves for the next 4 years. If the pro Trump crowd are able to hold some of it in their minds, along with their powerful beliefs in Trump, without their heads exploding from cognitive dissonance, its worth the time and effort.




That works both ways you know - :)

You are taking and presuming a position of superiority from the outset and I think that this is a component of the Psychological Operation against Trump - to instill those feelings in his detractors - in essence you view those who see it all differently as being in the Basket of Deplorables... !! (correct me if I'm wrong about that but have a good old contemplation on the point I'm making first - without your head exploding :nod:)

This automatic presumption of rightness and superiority is something that the PSYOP has tapped into and is exploiting - humans love and need validation and these are primitive needs - disagreeing with his policies and direction of his Presidency is a separate issue...

This is why (IMO) people find it so easy to call Trump names and insult everything about him - because they think they have the right to do that - indeed the DUTY to do that-

Now see what you've done with your presumption of superiority - :bigsmile:
(you're not the only one with that presumption)

And I recall T Smith's words in a previous post.....

"As far as I can tell, the progenitors of this psyop are currently deploying a mind-control weapon that affects us all, even those acutely aware of the psyop. The result has deeply divided people with moderately differing worldviews into bitter, quasi-violent tribal camps. This thread, among others on the forum, serves well to explore this dynamic."



:peace:


:grouphug:

I don't presume I am superior. If I did all the intelligent people who have their heads up Trump's arse wouldn't get under my skin. I'd just sigh and move on, like they're not worth my time. And for sure, if his royal orangeness makes good on even a few of his promises and doesn't turn the U.S. into an overt dictatorship I will be happy to admit that I somehow miscalculated the situation. But I do feel my take on Trump is superior, yes...just as you think yours is. Most people hold to an opinion because they think it is the correct or superior one.

[Snoweagle]

You left out the comma after "presume" and exclamation mark in place of the period.

Would have saved me time reading the rest.

Namaste.

[Antagenet]

I am so angry at Trump today I could ScREaM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjTEd6KtaTw

[onawah]

Trump’s Move to Suspend Enforcement of Environmental Laws is a Lifeline to the Oil Industry
The American Petroleum Institute sought the EPA’s help for companies hurt by COVID-19. One former EPA official called the suspension “an open license to pollute."

From Inside Climate News: A Pulitzer Prize-winning, non-profit, non-partisan news organization dedicated to covering climate change, energy and the environment.
BY MARIANNE LAVELLE
PHIL MCKENNA
David Hasemyer
DAVID HASEMYER
NICHOLAS KUSNETZ
MAR 27, 2020
https://insideclimatenews.org/news/27032020/coronavirus-covid-19-EPA-API-environmental-enforcement

(It may still be too soon to tell, but I wonder if those who still don't think Trump belongs to a faction of the Deep State (albeit a DIFFERENT faction than HRC, et al), can come up with a good explanation for this.

https://insideclimatenews.org/news/27032020/coronavirus-covid-19-EPA-API-environmental-enforcement

https://insideclimatenews.org/sites/default/files/styles/icn_full_wrap_wide/public/article_images/andrew-wheeler-900_mark-wilson-getty.jpg?itok=Mt6gif39
The Environmental Protection Agency, led by Andrew Wheeler, is suspending enforcement of environmental laws amid the coronavirus pandemic.


"The Trump administration's unprecedented decision https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-announces-enforcement-discretion-policy-covid-19-pandemic
...to suspend enforcement of U.S. environmental laws amid the COVID-19 crisis throws a lifeline to the oil industry as it copes with the greatest threat to its business in a generation.

The decision, announced late Thursday by the Environmental Protection Agency, comes after a detailed call for help from the industry's largest trade group, the American Petroleum Institute, five days earlier.

The EPA went further than meeting the oil industry's request—announcing a blanket policy suspending enforcement and civil penalties for any regulated entity that can show COVID-19 was the cause of a failure to comply with the law. But it is clear that a primary beneficiary will be the oil industry, which sought suspension of its obligations under consent decrees over past air and water pollution violations at its refineries, deferral of requirements on handling of fracking wastewater and a pause in reporting its greenhouse gas emissions and other pollution.On Friday afternoon, the EPA announced a separate action to relieve refineries of their legal obligation this year to produce "summer" blends of gasoline, designed to reduce smog-forming emissions.

Although the EPA sought to portray its suspension of enforcement activities as an action that would not pose a threat to human health or safety, experts are alarmed at the risks that the retreat poses, especially to the mostly poor and minority communities that have struggled with pollution from oil and gas operations in their midst.

"Air pollution leads to respiratory distress in downwind communities and respiratory distress in turn makes you more susceptible to the coronavirus," said Betsy Southerland, a former EPA official who worked at the agency from 1984 to 2017.

The agency's enforcement suspension demonstrates that as the oil industry faces an historic challenge—plummeting global demand that is driving it to a major shut-down of production—the Trump administration is positioning itself to sustain the business and assist in a rapid return to the fossil fuel status quo.

"This is an open license to pollute," said Gina McCarthy, president and CEO of the Natural Resources Defense Council, who served as administrator of the EPA during the Obama administration. "The administration should be giving its all toward making our country healthier right now. Instead it is taking advantage of an unprecedented public health crisis to do favors for polluters that threaten public health."

Judith Enck, who served as an EPA regional administrator from 2008 to 2017, calls the rules waiver "irresponsible" and fears that it will give the oil and gas industry carte blanche to pollute with little EPA accountability.

"This is a get out of jail free card, and don't think that the industry won't play it to their fullest advantage," she said.

An API spokesman said that the group "welcomed" EPA's action, stressing that the industry is "committed to prioritizing safe and reliable operations and is complying with requirements."

"Unfortunately, in some locations there may be limited personnel capacity to manage the full scope of the current regulatory requirements due to social distancing, contractor availability, and other COVID-19 impacts," the spokesman said. "Temporary relief from these requirements will allow operators and suppliers to prioritize their resources on those critical activities to enable the continued production of fuels and products."

The Worst Industry Crisis Since the 1973 Arab Oil Embargo
The oil industry's call for relief came amid what many analysts see as its worst crisis since the upheaval of the Arab oil embargo in 1973. Although in its request for help, API invoked the COVID-19 pandemic, the industry's woes escalated sharply with Saudi Arabia's March 7 announcement that it would begin increasing production, drawing on its prodigious spare capacity. The move caused oil prices to crash to less than half of what they were at the start of the year.

The point was to squeeze rival producer Russia, and by extension, frackers in the United States who had been stealing Saudi Arabia's market share. The rating agency Moody's expects a sharp increase in bankruptcies among U.S. frackers when the "staggering" amount of debt they used to finance their operations comes due.

On top of that pressure, stay-at-home orders across much of the country to slow the spread of the coronavirus have caused demand for oil to plummet. The oil consulting firm IHS Markit said that production will need to be shut down because the market is on track to produce far more oil than there is storage available to hold. The demand for gasoline in the United States could fall by more than 50 percent, an impact much greater than that of the 2008 recession.

Some oil and gas companies and their allies have sought massive federal government intervention. Some members of Congress and oil executives had reportedly called for direct financial support for the industry, perhaps through loans or trade actions against Saudi Arabia or Russia for boosting output.

Last week, a group of lawmakers called on the Trump administration to temporarily lower royalty rates for oil and gas extracted on public lands. Texas considered capping the state's oil output to try to boost prices and Sen. Kevin Cramer (R-N.D.) asked the administration to place an embargo on oil from Russia, Saudi Arabia and other oil producing nations. But API, representing the largest industry companies, has opposed trade sanctions or production quotas.

The EPA announced its plan to suspend enforcement of environmental laws after Congress passed a stimulus package that did not include funding to fill the Strategic Petroleum Reserve or other direct aid to the industry.

EPA Administrator Andrew Wheeler, a former coal lobbyist, said the policy would not apply to criminal violations of the law. He said the agency "expects regulated facilities to comply with regulatory requirements, where reasonably practicable."

"This temporary policy is designed to provide enforcement discretion under the current, extraordinary conditions, while ensuring facility operations continue to protect human health and the environment," Wheeler said. He offered no projected timeline for lifting the policy.

It's unclear whether the administration's easing of environmental laws will provide significant financial relief for the oil industry. Most experts view a fall in U.S. oil production as now inevitable. Rystad Energy projected that U.S. output will decline this year as companies slash spending by up to $100 billion. It said oil producers may drill only about two-thirds as many wells as planned for the year.

The Public's Exposure to Pollution Could Increase
Numerous former EPA officials from the Obama administration said the agency's unprecedented enforcement suspension was not necessary, because the EPA always has discretion to waive penalties in cases of hardship.

"It can be appropriate to do so, provided [it's] some narrowly constrained relief but imposing enforceable conditions that assure the public remains protected," said Cynthia Giles, who served as head of EPA's enforcement office during the Obama administration. "That's not what they've done here. This is a nationwide moratorium on enforcing the environmental laws, and it does not contain the kinds of protections that are needed to ensure that there's not unlawful air and water pollution and there's not a collapse in monitoring."

She added that the EPA's action was "wildly over broad."

"I am not aware of any instance when EPA ever relinquished this fundamental authority as it does in this memo," Giles said.

Enck, who served as EPA regional administrator for New Jersey and New York, said officials dealt with crisis conditions during Hurricane Sandy in 2012 without suspending rules protecting the public.

In that case, requests for waivers were assessed individually, said Enck, now a visiting professor and senior fellow at Bennington College in Vermont.

"I wanted to hear from the lawyers and the scientists," before we made any decisions," Enck said. "Our first responsibility was to the public, not the industry to make the right decisions."

Allowing a company to postpone the repair of equipment that leaks toxic gases into the atmosphere, as API has suggested, leaves the public exposed to those pollutants for longer periods of time, increases the risk of fire and explosion and is not just a paperwork concern, Giles and other former EPA officials and environmental organizations said in a letter of protest to the EPA.

Clean Air Act rules limiting hazardous air pollution, for example, require refineries to monitor benzene levels at their fence lines and to take corrective action whenever annual concentrations of this harmful pollutant exceed 9 micrograms per cubic meter.

Monitoring reports show that at least 10 refineries in Illinois, Louisiana, Mississippi, Pennsylvania, New Mexico and Texas exceeded this annual threshold in the fourth quarter of 2019, the environmental advocates said in their letter.

Pasadena Refining Systems in Texas reported that benzene levels along part of its boundary averaged 565 micrograms per cubic meter between Oct. 16 and Oct. 30 of 2019, or nearly six times the 10-hour exposure limit recommended by the National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health.

Rob Verchick, an environmental law professor at Loyola University and a deputy associate administrator for policy at the EPA during the Obama administration, said he would be particularly concerned about emergency releases from refineries and other petrochemical facilities during the regulatory suspension.

"These would affect poorer communities usually who are situated around facilities like this and those emergency releases are the kinds of things that send people to the hospital when they happen," he said.

Verchick said emergency releases occur when pressure within a petrochemical plant builds to a dangerous level and the pressurized gases, which often include harmful pollutants, are released into the atmosphere. To avoid such releases, the plants could also shut down temporarily and wait for the pressure to subside. Such shutdowns, however, take time and carry a financial burden because of decreased productivity.

Verchick said the regulatory suspension could increase the frequency of emergency releases and decrease reporting of such releases to the agency and to surrounding residents.

For people who live in nearby communities, Verchick said, the EPA's enforcement suspension would be "just open season on our population."

Mustafa Ali, vice president of environmental justice, climate and community revitalization for the National Wildlife Federation and former head of the environmental justice program at the EPA, said tying the suspension to COVID-19 is "nonsensical."

"We know that these are the communities where we have elevated levels of cancers and liver kidney, heart and lung diseases," he said. "You're going to put more pollution into these communities, then you're also going to create more chronic health conditions which make you more susceptible to COVID-19."

Ali added that in many instances, these are also medically underserved communities that will have a much more difficult time if their residents become infected.

David Uhlmann, director of the environmental law and policy program at the University of Michigan Law School, said it is important to remember that environmental laws rest on an honor system where companies are required to self-identify their pollution activities, self-monitor their compliance and self-report their violations. It might have been preferable to offer leniency on a case-by-case basis instead of a blanket waiver, he said, but the end result may not have been different.

"The Trump administration has such a deplorable record on environmental protection that the no-enforcement rule announced this week is immediately suspect," he said. "But this policy may be less nefarious than the alarming environmental rollbacks that the Trump EPA continues to pursue, even as the nation is fighting the COVID pandemic."

The Impact on Climate Change Could be Staggering
Whatever implications the enforcement suspension may have for the residents who live near refineries and other oil industry facilities, its impact on climate change could be staggering.

If an administration were in place that viewed action on the climate crisis as a priority, the slowdown in drilling could provide an opportunity to ease the economy into a clean energy transition that provides more stability for workers, analysts said.

"The fossil fuel industry is particularly capital-intensive," said Gernot Wagner, an economist at New York University who is co-author of the book Climate Shock. "Installing solar panels on people's roofs is famously labor-intensive. In a week when 3 million Americans have filed for unemployment, why not focus on actually helping those most affected by the crisis?"

Wagner was one of a group of academics who have called for Congress to address the COVID-19 crisis with a "green stimulus" package that addresses climate concerns at the same time it addresses the health and economic security of workers. The package Congress passed this week did not include any clean energy component, and the latest move by the Trump administration makes clear that is not part of its agenda.

"Loosening environmental restrictions is a particularly shortsighted way of attempting to stimulate economic activity," said Wagner. "Doing so during a public health crisis magnifies the concerns."

ABOUT THE AUTHOR

Marianne Lavelle
Marianne Lavelle is a reporter for InsideClimate News. She has covered environment, science, law, and business in Washington, D.C. for more than two decades. She has won the Polk Award, the Investigative Editors and Reporters Award, and numerous other honors. Lavelle spent four years as online energy news editor and writer at National Geographic. She also has worked at U.S. News and World Report magazine and The National Law Journal. While there, she led the award-winning 1992 investigation, "Unequal Protection," on the disparity in environmental law enforcement against polluters in minority and white communities.

[thepainterdoug]

the problem is the human being. plain and simple

im a stoic and love Seneca and Marcus Aureolas . / they say study nature and teach us to do the same. Nothing is even in nature . Beauty and horror live side by side everyday. Might makes right, but the small find a way to live around it. Its hard but honest. We are not.

its amazing to me how well things are working in our society . The humans true nature is demonstrated when things are lawless. Stealing, rape ,murder, and the worst of what you can think of has happened time after time in history and will continue to do so to this very day.

We are a country of laws. Thats our best attribute. Want to rape and pillage? you go to jail and pay the price. Its the law that keeps us generally safe

The political spectrum is an on going blame game with the media running its agenda. Who's a deep state ? who and by how much? A little, a lot? i don't care, as this is all arm chair quarterbacking and its own form of entertainment .

ohh Trump should of acted sooner! well how much sooner? and then why not another day before that? and another day before that? very easy to call when sitting on the sidelines.

All who know what a mutiny is ;the deck hands revolt, throw the captain and his elite overboard, then they are in charge and now need to order their friends around and it happens all over again in short time.

think joe biden going to do better? laughable. and should he get in, then reverse the roles and the same he said, she said , armchair quarterback game begins again .

its the haves and the have-nots . always was and always will be. what we need is a paradigm shift in the heart and in the soul.

then laws wouldn't be needed to keep us in line . it would be our own heart ,soul and karmic awareness. we would all know and want to do the right thing

Lets all do our best , stop arguing and adding negative, and take care of family and neighbor , for we are not yet ready to step up from those we tear down.
IMHO
blessings all / d

[onawah]

That will be much easier once we are really, finally CLEAR about who is doing what and why, all naivety or cynicism aside.
Posting information that needs to be considered is not "adding negative", but adding to CLARITY.
I agree with the views expressed in the discussion here:http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?102135-Dark-Journalist-Joseph-Farrell-UFO-X-Factor-Black-Budget-Secret-Space-Network-16-March-2018&p=1346423&viewfull=1#post1346423
...which are far from divisive or confined to black and white thinking, but are taking a reasoned look at all possible scenarios.
...And that can include a lot of possibilities in shades of gray that many are not taking the time, or taking a break from reactionary thinking, to consider.




Lets all do our best , stop arguing and adding negative, and take care of family and neighbor , for we are not yet ready to step up from those we tear down.
IMHO
blessings all / d

[thepainterdoug]

agreed onawah thanks

[onawah]

Lakota People's Law Project
Tell Congress: COVID aid oversight a must
3/31/20
(From their email update today. IF anyone knows what damage Trump's proposed oil industry bailout would cause, these people do! )

"As you have likely heard, the federal government recently passed a $2 trillion emergency relief package to aid Americans during the COVID-19 crisis. We’re so grateful to those of you who sent 13,000 emails to Congress demanding the CARES Act not bail out fossil fuel companies. It worked: the bill was revised — you and others stopped a $3 billion giveaway to oil companies! Other victories in the Act include expanded protections for unemployed workers, coverage for COVID-19 testing, and $64 million in aid to Indian Country. Even under quarantine, you are helping make a difference where it counts.

Despite those wins, Trump announced in a signing statement that he intends to ignore key congressional oversight provisions, leaving open the possibility that he will still earmark billions of dollars for the fossil fuel industry. Thankfully, such signing statements do not carry the force of law. As my comrade Chase Iron Eyes describes in our new video, Congress can take legal action. Click here to tell the House of Representatives to file a lawsuit against the executive branch and stop Trump from following through on his promise to bail out Big Oil.
https://www.lakotalaw.org/our-actions/no-big-oil-bailout?utm_source=ea&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=slushfund&utm_content=textlink&sourceid=1040582&contactdata=W6v6LfQpow48j%2fc0VHmjCKEpDk3SA%2fm2fPi18fdCA7heprdc3mB36%2by4H6sDhQVBSFbQlcRW8Crc6HzXG2 86wXdMlmoVUIIWZOiv5sZeGp3hn8MTOhKK02vM9AqiOQQfGjW1qNNjxytd8eZmcz5%2fLR0eGvYVYQk%2fUQWkxWwyWt5DIidGey AhQaJ76Vg5IQ9inUydjfyaDi3P6HFm6SALWnE7KoLV2A8Fww0LiTUE3%2bEKLshC8ZollALL6Ym8Q%2bLFExveoE7GVx8zq%2b4w cOWS2w%3d%3d&emci=ef371629-9273-ea11-a94c-00155d03b1e8&emdi=b1adcd71-b373-ea11-a94c-00155d03b1e8&ceid=4609486
Lakota Law
-xOTrDrZJ2Y
Chase Iron Eyes talks legal action against the White House.

In the midst of massive shelter-in-place orders, we’re seeing how quickly nature can start to rebound — bluer skies, cleaner water ways, thriving wildlife. Mother Earth is clearly sending us a message: we can’t go back to business-as-usual. The truth is, COVID-19 isn’t the primary reason the oil industry is now suffering. U.S. fracking simply can’t compete with cheap Saudi Oil and renewables. We must let the market dictate a shift to green alternatives before it’s too late, rather than continuing to subsidize dirty energy. Taking Trump’s Big Oil addiction to court can be an important step in severing our addiction to fossil fuels.

In more localized news, my part of Indian Country is beginning to feel the impacts of the pandemic, with confirmed cases near both Standing Rock and Yankton. Though we have no reported cases yet on Pine Ridge or Cheyenne River, limited testing means we can’t be sure the virus isn’t among us. We know that COVID-19 could disproportionately impact Native communities, and we’re remaining vigilant during these uncertain times. We organizers are sounding out tribal leaders (from a safe distance) on how LPLP can support public health in the days to come. Please stay tuned for ways you can assist our efforts on the reservations.

Thank you for your support. Wishing you and your family safety and health,

Madonna Thunder Hawk
Cheyenne River Organizer
The Lakota People's Law Project

P.S. We must prioritize the health of people and planet during a pandemic — not the extractive industry that routinely jeopardizes both. I ask you to use your voice again to engage your reps and the courts. Together, let’s stop Trump’s Big Oil bailout.
https://www.lakotalaw.org/our-actions/no-big-oil-bailout

[onawah]

Air Pollution, on the Rise Under Trump, Puts People at Risk of Severe Illness From Coronavirus
By Alex Formuzis, Senior VP, Communications and Strategic Campaigns
TUESDAY, MARCH 31, 2020
https://www.ewg.org/news-and-analysis/2020/03/air-pollution-rise-under-trump-puts-people-risk-severe-illness-coronavirus?utm_campaign=EWG+Content&utm_content=1585835592&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=twitter

(Bold letters my emphasis. Though I don't agree with EWG's perspective on "the virus", or climate change, increased pollution is definitely a BIG problem.)

"As the novel coronavirus sweeps across the U.S. and the number of people who have tested positive for COVID-19 climbs by the hour, the Americans at greatest risk are the elderly and those with underlying health conditions.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says the highest-risk group includes people who suffer from heart and lung disease and asthma – all conditions that can be caused or made worse by moderate to heavy air pollution. And the European Public Health Alliance, or EPHA, warns that people “living in polluted cities are more at risk from Covid-19.”

“Patients with chronic lung and heart conditions caused or worsened by long-term exposure to air pollution are less able to fight off lung infections and more likely to die” from COVID-19, said Dr. Sara De Matteis, associate professor of occupational and environmental medicine at Cagliari University, in Italy, and a member of EPHA.

That’s especially troubling in light of the rise in U.S. air pollution levels, and the weakening of air pollution regulations, during the Trump administration.

Trump’s Assault on Air Pollution Regulations

On Tuesday, the Trump administration released its final rule rolling back President Obama’s fuel efficiency standards for automobiles, which will allow cars and light trucks to cumulatively emit nearly 1 billion more tons of lung-damaging carbon dioxide over the lifetime of the vehicle fleet than under the standards put in place during the Obama administration, The New York Times reported.

“The new rule, which is expected to be implemented by late spring, will roll back a 2012 rule that required automakers’ fleets to average about 54 miles per gallon by 2025. Instead, the fleets would have to average about 40 miles per gallon,” the Times said.

Since taking office, President Trump and his administration have overseen an unprecedented assault on federal policies aimed at reducing industrial pollution from power plants, tail pipes and coal, oil and natural gas extraction operations, including carbon dioxide, nitrogen oxide, mercury and methane.

The administration has or is in the process of repealing at least 95 different environmental rules, with 25 having a direct and adverse impact on the nation’s air quality, and dozens of others that will indirectly increase air pollution.

Among the 16 rules Trump has officially repealed are the Clean Power Plan, President Obama’s signature climate change initiative. The plan set strict limits on carbon emissions coal-fired power plants, which contribute to the health issues that increase susceptibility to COVID-19.

The administration has repealed a rule requiring the oil and gas industry to report methane emissions. It is seeking to revoke California’s ability to set its own stringent auto emissions standards, and has abolished a requirement that each state track emissions from cars, light trucks and other vehicles traveling on federal highways.

On Tuesday, the Trump administration released its final rule rolling back President Obama’s fuel efficiency standards for automobiles, which will allow cars and light trucks to emit nearly 1 billion more tones of carbon dioxide over the lifetime of the vehicle fleet than under the standards put in place during the Obama administration, the New York Times reported.https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/30/climate/trump-fuel-economy.html?campaign_id=49&emc=edit_ca_20200331&instance_id=17209&nl=california-today&regi_id=60294474&segment_id=23394&te=1&user_id=c7c3c6675aeb4994d8b97480c795351f

The Environmental Protection Agency is poised to make significant changes to a 2011 rule that drove a 70 percent reduction in mercury emissions from coal-fired power plants, which could cause mercury emissions to go back up. Regular exposure to mercury can impair brain and nervous system development in babies and children, and damage the lungs and immune systems in adults and people of advanced age, putting them at greater risk of contracting COVID-19.

And last week the EPA said it will let the fossil fuel, chemical, electricity utilities and other industries use “enforcement discretion” to determine for themselves whether they should be required to monitor and report air and water pollution discharges.

Air Pollution on the Rise Under Trump

Economists at Carnegie Mellon recently published research showing an increase in one form of air pollution by 5.5 percent between 2016 and 2018 after it declined by 24 percent between 2009 and 2016.

Among the reasons the researchers suspect for the rise in annual average fine particulate matter, or PM2.5, are likely policies adopted by the Trump EPA, including significant decreases in Clean Air Act enforcement actions. PM2.5 most notably comes from coal mining and the burning of fossil fuels, including from power plants and combustible engines. The authors of the study estimate an additional 9,700 premature deaths in 2018 alone due to the spike in air pollution

In addition, EPA air emissions data published in June of last year showed a significant increase in bad air days between 2017 and 2019.

In Wake of Coronavirus, Worldwide Emissions Plummet – But Will Return

New satellite data show steep reductions in air pollution in the U.S., as major cities and states have ordered millions of Americans to shelter in place and many businesses to close.

But the damage from increased air pollution has already been done, leaving many people who suffer from underlying health problems and who live or work in dense urban areas or near big sources of emissions such as power plants, refineries and chemical plants at greater risk of contracting COVID-19.

During the 2003 SARS outbreak in China, caused by a similar coronavirus, residents of areas with the highest levels of air pollution were twice as likely to die as those who lived in places with lower levels, according to a study conducted by a team of scientists from China and the U.S.

To make up for lost production time, China is now easing restrictions on manufacturing and other industrial operations that have idled since the pandemic first exploded.

That will eventually happen in the U.S., when these unprecedented efforts to quell the coronavirus and flatten the curve of infection takes hold. Entire industries will ramp back up, and hundreds of millions of Americans will return to their daily commutes to work and school, producing a surge of tailpipe and factory emissions.

The lesson to be learned is that protecting public health does not depend solely on the response to an emergency or the regulation of a specific pollutant. Public health is the sum product of many interrelated policies and practices. Protections targeting a single industrial sector or geographic region have profound ripple effects throughout society.

Congress Must Act to Reduce Air Pollution Through Clean Energy Incentives

Key tax credits for renewable energy have helped spark a revolution in the wind, solar, battery storage and electric vehicle industries, and created more than 3.3 million clean energy jobs. Now those credits are expiring, and Congress failed to reinstate these incentives in the latest coronavirus stimulus package.

The next round of aid lawmakers consider must extend and expand these tax credits and take additional steps to bolster the clean energy industry. This will simultaneously address the three great crises confronting the nation: the pandemic, the economic collapse and climate change."

[onawah]

DESPICABLE!
4/9/20
From Lakota People's Law Project email update today

"Aƞpétu wašté (Good day)! I hope you are staying well, and I want you to know that we’re praying for all our relations impacted by the ongoing COVID-19 outbreak. One benefit of sheltering in place is that we’re able to keep our eyes peeled for important news. In case you missed it, I wanted to highlight a recent attack on Indigenous sovereignty and ask for your solidarity for our Mashpee relatives.

At the end of last month, the Department of Interior announced that 321 acres of land will be taken out of trust, effectively revoking the reservation status of the Mashpee Wampanoag people of Massachusetts. For those who learned the Thanksgiving story in elementary school, the Wampanoag people broke bread with the Pilgrims in Plymouth colony, and it was Wampanoag land that the Pilgrims took. And now, in the middle of an unprecedented global pandemic, President Trump’s cabinet is moving to rescind the sovereign status of these people.

The Lakota People’s Law Project stands with the Mashpee Wampanoag in the struggle to defend their birthright to live on the land of their ancestors, and we ask that you take a few moments to watch my video pIHFVOJhFhc
...and #StandWithMashpee too:
https://www.lakotalaw.org/resources/standwithmashpee?utm_source=ea&=&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=mashpee&utm_content=textlink&sourceid=1040762&emci=c15c1aa8-bf79-ea11-a94c-00155d03b1e8&emdi=e50e52d5-f579-ea11-a94c-00155d03b1e8&ceid=4609486
Lakota Law

President Obama placed the land in question into trust in 2015, but that decision has been reversed under Trump. A reinterpretation by our executive branch of a 2009 Supreme Court decision now only grants trust status to tribes recognized before 1934, when the Indian Reorganization Act was signed. Because the Mashpee weren’t federally recognized until 2007, they’ve now lost their status. As Jessie Little Doe Baird, vice chair of the tribe, said “they came for our children and took them to Carlisle because we were 'too Indian.' Today, they tell us we are not Indian enough."

The Mashpee, who have lived in the Massachusetts area for over 12,000 years, are being denied their right to autonomy. With federal trust status comes the right to manage, develop, and tax a parcel of land. This “disestablishment” of the Mashpee reservation will likely force the closure of the tribal court and police department; it will cost Native people their livelihoods in an already barren economic landscape.

This blatant land-grab isn’t even court-ordered — the directive came from Trump’s Department of the Interior. Now, the Mashpee have asked a D.C. court to issue an emergency restraining order to prevent the dissolution of trust status, and Massachusetts senators Elizabeth Warren and Ed Markey have vowed to combat this assault on the tribe’s self-determination, saying “We will not allow the Mashpee Wampanoag to lose their homeland.”

We Native people have struggled to retain less than 2.5 percent of our lands since European contact. The Indian Wars, in essence, have never truly ended. The United States’ long history of systemically suppressing Native rights continues, and in 2020, land trust removal is the latest iteration of that same legacy of colonialism. We are disheartened, but as Indigenous people and allies, we have each others’ backs in the face of adversity. You can stand for sovereignty by standing with the Mashpee people in their time of need.

Wopila — thank you. Solidarity forever,

Chase Iron Eyes
Lead Counsel
The Lakota People's Law Project "

[amor]

I believe that President Trump has basically a good heart. He has had to survive in business among the most devious, evil corporate and gangster types who are beyond thinking in any straight way. Every move they make is devious with a second and third agenda hidden underneath with the end result being thieving profit. He has had to learn to navigate this swamp, a perfect training ground for Washington.

Recently, Coast to Coast Radio had on someone who read "reverse speech." President Trump's speech in reverse had no hidden messages, he was clean and straightforward. On the other hand, the CDC on another recording came up at LYING on the topic of complicity with the the COVID 19 viral release. They have researched 19 viruses in sequence and PATENTED ALL OF THEM according to Project Camelot's discovery. Therefore, where did the virus come from???? The President is dealing with world class MURDERERS. It is time we pray for him and rise up and remove those who created these evil institutions, corporations, secret organizations and thieves.

[onawah]

EPA paving the way for industry pollution
4/17/20
By Emily Summerlin
http://www.panna.org/blog/epa-paving-way-industry-pollution?utm_source=blog&utm_medium=groundtruth&utm_campaign=gt&link_id=3&can_id=4870e31ee9d2b4c95e94bdd1b8471b48&email_referrer=email_778722&email_subject=covid-relief-for-farmers-epa-stops-regulating-pollution-pandemic-resources

"The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency recently announced that in the midst of the COVID-19 pandemic, the agency would be suspending enforcement of environmental laws.

The fact that this administration’s EPA would use this global emergency as an excuse for letting corporations get away with polluting is almost inconceivable. Yet here we are. Since the Trump administration came into office, I’ve watched EPA descend fairly quickly into almost blatant corporate cronyism, monitoring moves like appointing an oil and gas industry advocate as the agency head, reversing course on a planned ban of a dangerous pesticide, and allowing a marked increase of another dangerous pesticide in our water supply by weakening safeguards. But this takes the cake.

This was designated a temporary policy, but no end date has been set. For an agency with “environmental protection” in the name, this is an abdication of EPA’s duty.

Going above and beyond for industry
The agency had been under pressure from several industries, including the oil industry, to suspend enforcement of a number of environmental regulations due to the pandemic before this announcement was made, with several industries also asking for extensions on deadlines to meet various environmental goals outlined in legal settlements they had signed with EPA.

EPA Administrator Andrew Wheeler shared in a statement that the reasoning behind the decision was that EPA “recognizes challenges resulting from efforts to protect workers and the public from COVID-19 may directly impact the ability of regulated facilities to meet all federal regulatory requirements.”

However, the memo signed by the Administrator goes far beyond what industry was even asking for — the statement does not even protect EPA's obligation to act in the event of an imminent threat to public health.

Cynthia Giles, who headed the EPA’s Office of Enforcement during the Obama administration said, “EPA should never relinquish its right and its obligation to act immediately and decisively when there is threat to public health, no matter what the reason is. I am not aware of any instance when EPA ever relinquished this fundamental authority as it does in this memo.”

A one-way street
Critics have said that it’s not unreasonable to refrain from enforcement on a case-by-case basis if companies are short-staffed because they’re working to keep their employees safe and at home. But chemical plants and other facilities that are continuing to operate right now should also be able to comply with environmental laws.

New research has come out linking air pollution to higher COVID-19 death rates. EPA should be ensuring that polluting industries are held to an even higher standard right now, not left to their own devices.

Even more upsetting? While EPA makes excuses for why corporations can’t be forced to comply with environmental protection standards during this crisis, they are making no extra allowances for the public to respond to various proposals to weaken environmental standards, refusing to budge on comment deadlines and proceeding with a number of deregulatory actions.

Just last week, EPA announced approval of a pesticide that the agency itself has determined is likely to cause cancer and to drift hundreds of feet from where it is applied — and did so by sidestepping the usual public input process for the decision. The herbicide’s registration was opened for public comment, but not listed in the federal register.

Not so fast, EPA
If EPA thought they could sneak this announcement through while the world is preoccupied with the ongoing pandemic and everything that comes with it, they’re wrong. Public uproar was immediate, and advocacy groups sprung into action to combat this egregious move by the agency.

PAN’s partners at the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC) along with the Environmental Justice Health Alliance (EJHA) and the Climate Justice Alliance have filed a petition seeking the issuance of an emergency final rule protecting public health, in response to the agency’s non-enforcement policy.

The petition requests that EPA issue a rule requiring companies that take advantage of the non-enforcement policy to publicly disclose when they stop monitoring or reporting their air and water pollution emissions, along with a detailed justification for doing so. The petition also urges EPA to notify the public by publishing that information within one day of notice from the companies.

EPA hasn’t yet responded, but the pressure is on. Stay tuned for ways to take action. "

[onawah]

With All Eyes On COVID, Trump Continues His Environmental Assaults
BY ANDY SHARPLESS AND ANTHA WILLIAMS
APRIL 23, 2020
https://oceana.org/blog/all-eyes-covid-trump-continues-his-environmental-assaults?utm_campaign=enews&utm_content=202004enewsUS&utm_source=en&utm_medium=email

https://oceana.org/sites/default/files/styles/ntsc/public/oilrig_callout.jpg?itok=14XJlmBr

"As COVID-19 continues its deadly march across the United States, the public and the media are rightly captivated by the pandemic and this administration’s inadequate response. Unfortunately when it comes to President Trump’s environmental assaults, he’s proven he can walk and chew gum at the same time. In the past months as the coronavirus has commanded national attention, Trump has relaxed EPA oversight of polluters, proposed excluding climate change from public infrastructure planning and proceeded to auction off public lands and waters to fossil fuel companies.

We’ve spent our careers dealing with the aftereffects of fossil fuel disasters and working to protect our world’s ocean. And while we can’t leave anything on the field in the fight against the coronavirus, we also cannot abandon the fight against dangerous offshore drilling.

April 20 marked the 10-year anniversary of the worst human-caused environmental disaster in U.S. history: the deadly explosion of BP’s Deepwater Horizon oil rig. The disaster’s long-term economic, environmental and public health implications should be reminder enough that we can’t take our eyes off the activities of those who would give polluters and fossil fuel interests free rein to drill. An economy made vulnerable by the coronavirus simply cannot afford another disaster on the scale of Deepwater Horizon. Unfortunately, little has been done to protect people, ecosystems and wildlife from similar events in the future.

Deepwater Horizon exposed glaring shortfalls in our institutional safeguards, and yet despite the lessons made clear by the disaster and its aftermath, our leaders have been stubbornly blind to what should have been a teachable moment. Offshore oil and gas drilling remains as dirty and dangerous as it was 10 years ago — and President Trump’s campaign to radically expand offshore drilling still threatens nearly all our waters.

Oil from the BP spill washed ashore along more than 1,300 miles of coast across all five Gulf states, devastating marine life and ecosystems. The spill killed more than 150 whales and dolphins, and more than 1,000 washed up on shore over the following four years. Some estimates put the total bird mortality as high as 800,000. Oil killed up to 170,000 sea turtles — many of them endangered.

The Gulf economy reeled. Hotel owners described the phones going silent the days after the spill. Beach visits, boating and fishing plummeted, leading to a loss in the recreation industry of more than half a billion dollars. Fisheries closed, leaving some fishermen with no choice but to trade their trawl nets for booms and join the largely ineffective cleanup efforts. Government estimates put the total loss in the Gulf seafood industry at nearly a billion dollars.

More than 100,000 people were involved in the response, and in turn, were exposed to oil and the chemical dispersants that were required to address the manmade disaster. Cleanup workers reported respiratory problems, headaches, diarrhea, nausea and rashes. Some workers reported worsening health problems like blood disorders and heart problems even seven years after the disaster.

Now take a moment to imagine these tragedies taking place amid a global pandemic. Most experts say it’s only a matter of when, not if, another large-scale disaster will occur. Oil and gas companies are pushing their rigs farther out into the Gulf and into deeper waters, where risks of accidents are even higher, and where recovery and containment are even more difficult. President Trump and his allies remain focused on endangering our communities, economy and environment by expanding offshore drilling operations. It’s a catastrophe waiting to happen.

And beyond the immediate risks posed by offshore drilling to surrounding communities, this industry has brought us to our current global climate crisis. Hundred-year storms occurring multiple times a year, coastal flooding, massive wildfires and even plagues of locusts — all are linked to an unfolding climate catastrophe that comes from burning fossil fuels. All the signs point to the need for a rapid drawdown of fossil fuel production, and aggressive investment in clean renewable energy.

You’d think the Deepwater Horizon disaster would have been a wakeup call — the moment that we as a nation said “never again.” That should have been the moment we committed to the long-overdue phase out of our dependence on fossil fuels, while effectuating a focused investment plan for our clean energy future.

But we did not. And instead of working to prevent another spill, the oil and gas industry is working with President Trump to weaken the already inadequate rules put in place to prevent another tragedy.

Instead of protecting the local people and economies that provide billions in GDP and hundreds of thousands of jobs to coastal states, President Trump is threatening those clean coastal economies with his plan to expand offshore drilling to nearly every shore. This flies in the face of overwhelming opposition that has grown to include more than 380 municipalities and over 2,200 local, state and federal elected officials. Now, all the governors along the East and West coasts — Republicans and Democrats alike — are on the record against drilling, too.

It’s been 10 years since one of the worst preventable disasters this country has ever seen. We hope that this year we will finally learn from that awful lesson, reverse course and return to a path of progress — a path that leads to clean coasts, healthy oceans and a carbon-free future. The disaster we’re experiencing in real time should be a jarring wakeup call: It’s never too late to do the right thing, but the sooner we act, the more lives we’ll save."

By Antha Williams, who leads the Environment Program at Bloomberg Philanthropies; and Andrew Sharpless, the CEO of Oceana, the largest international advocacy organization dedicated solely to ocean conservation.

(I keep thinking about scenes from the movie The Day the Earth Stood Still
Dh9UsP9UMyQ
Fracking and other such dangerous practices only hastens the destruction.
Plandemics may reduce the population, but won't stop the destruction.
The only thing that might is the release of advanced. sustainable, clean technologies, and it doesn't look like the controllers are willing for that to happen.
What will it take?)

[onawah]

Sign the petition: Demand the Department of the Interior stop the sale of all public lands and waters to the oil and gas industry during the COVID-19 pandemic
5/8/20
https://actionnetwork.org/forms/sign-the-petition-demand-interior-department-stop-all-public-land-sales-to-the-fossil-fuel-industry-during-covid-19-pandemic?source=facebook&

"As the price of oil continues to drop, the oil and gas industry is trying everything to put their interests before COVID-19 relief. Right now, they’re positioned to gobble up giant swaths of public lands and waters on the cheap and are also pushing through massive new extraction projects while the country is reeling from COVID-19 and unable to fight back.

Here’s the background:

The oil and gas industry is actively pushing the Bureau of Land Management to allow new drilling and fracking leases near the Arches and Canyonlands national parks in Utah outside of the area’s “master leasing plan”. Allowing new oil and gas extraction to happen in Utah would advance the climate crisis, threaten the national parks, destroy treasured public lands, and put the great Colorado River at risk for contamination. One parcel the oil industry has requested is double the size of Arches national park itself!

The Department of the Interior cannot sit idly by and watch it happen. The National Environmental Policy Act says that the public must have enough time to analyze and comment on these projects in detail. This cannot adequately be done while communities closest to this potential oil and gas development and extraction are focused on paying their bills and keeping healthy. We must push the DOI to immediately suspend all current public comment periods, upcoming oil and gas lease sales, and new policy proposals for public lands and waters.

The Department of the Interior was created to serve people and give a voice to U.S. communities. Allowing the oil and gas industry to run amuck while the rest of the country is distracted by a global health and economic crisis will have deeply negative effects now and for decades to come. We must demand all oil and gas lease sales on public lands and in public waters stop immediately.

Sign the petition: Demand DOI stop oil and gas leases immediately — we’re in a time of crisis and cannot afford environmental catastrophes now or ever."
https://actionnetwork.org/forms/sign-the-petition-demand-interior-department-stop-all-public-land-sales-to-the-fossil-fuel-industry-during-covid-19-pandemic?source=facebook&
Participating Organizations:
CCAN Action
Climate Hawks Vote
Climate Reality
Daily Kos
Endangered Species Coalition
Friends of the Earth Action
Food & Water Action
Global Warming Solutions
Greenpeace USA
Interfaith Power & Light
LeftNet
Stand.earth
Waterkeeper Alliance "

[onawah]

Compare the information shared by two experts, Dr. Buttar and Dr. Zach. to what Trump says regarding the Plandemic, showing how very far behind the learning curve he still is.
I don't question that he is doing the best he can considering the murderous agenda he is up against, but just how MUCH he is apparently missing is not reassuring. Disagreeing with Fauci is not going to be nearly enough.
I hope enough of the public wake up a lot faster.
What we all really need to understand is how much the very toxic environment we have created on the planet is to our existence, not to mention our health, and Trump is far from strong on the environment.

EXCLUSIVE: Trump talks Michael Flynn, Obama admin and China with Maria Bartiromo
5/14/20
Fox Business
1.01M subscribers
"President Trump discusses battling coronavirus, reopening the U.S. economy and fallout from the Russia investigation on 'Mornings with Maria.' "U-7N8HAKWmc

DOCTOR WHO PREDICTED COVID-19 ANSWERS ALL
May 8, 2020
The HighWire with Del Bigtree
143K subscribers
"Triple board-certified M.D., Dr. Zach, joins Del in an evolutionary discussion on why Coronavirus is here, what it’s trying to tell us, and how we emerge from the darkness."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RAtFBvKrVw&feature=youtu.be


Krystal Tini Interviews Dr Buttar
26,442 views• 5/14/20
Dr Rashid A Buttar
316K subscribers

"Rashid A. Buttar, DO, FAAPM, FACAM, FAAIM: Dr. Rashid A. Buttar received his undergraduate degree from Washington University in St. Louis with a double major in Biology and Theology at age 21, and then attended medical school at the University of Osteopathic Medicine and Health Sciences, College of Osteopathic Medicine and Surgery in Des Moines, Iowa, graduating with his medical degree at age 25. He trained in General Surgery and Emergency Medicine and served as Brigade Surgeon for 2nd Infantry Division, Republic of South Korea, and later as Chief of the Department of Emergency Medicine at Moncrief Army Community Hospital at Ft. Jackson in Columbia, South Carolina while serving in the US Army.

Dr. Buttar became an Eagle Scout at the age of 14, becoming the youngest person in the US to get his Eagle that year, and made the list for promotion to Major in the US Army at the age of 28, becoming the youngest person to make the list for Major that year in the US Army just prior to finishing his service in the Armed Forces. During his military career, Dr. Buttar had the privilege of serving with and being attached to the 2nd Infantry Division, the 101st Air Assault Division and the 5th Special Forces Group. Dr. Buttar is board certified and a Diplomate in Clinical Metal Toxicology and Preventive Medicine, is board eligible in Emergency Medicine and has achieved fellowship status in three separate medical organizations (Fellow of the American College for Advancement in Medicine, Fellow of the American Academy of Preventive Medicine, and Fellow of the American Association of Integrative Medicine).

Dr. Buttar now serves as the Medical Director for the Centers for Advanced Medicine with clinics on the east and west coast. The Centers specialize in the treatment and needs of patients refractory to conventional treatments and who have failed the standard approach to their disease process. With a special emphasis on the interrelationship between environmental toxicity and the insidious disease processes and the “up-regulation” of the immune system, the Center has attracted patients from 89 different countries suffering from autism, cancer, heart disease, stroke and many other conditions too numerous to list."

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPCvAq9xjbE

[Kryztian]

[B]Compare the information shared by two experts, Dr. Buttar and Dr. Zach. to what Trump says regarding the Plandemic, showing how very far behind the learning curve he still is.
I don't question that he is doing the best he can considering the murderous agenda he is up against, but just how MUCH he is apparently missing is not reassuring. Disagreeing with Fauci is not going to be nearly enough.


Here is a person who does not get the flu shot and clearly believes in the power of his own immune system, but now he is holding up a future virus as the answer to all our problems? According to Judy Mikovits, Trump is hearing her story, and Trump has stopped funding to the WHO, so here's for holding on to the hope that he is a little smarter than he is letting on.

[greybeard]

No apology for reposting this.
Trump must be aware of VICTORY - Bill Gates, Anthony Fauci & Big Pharma lost a Massive Supreme Court Case in USA

Just perhaps he will now take action against these people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JG5b8Qt_CY

[onawah]

That's a very long, passionate rant in the video, apparently designed mostly to convince naysayers, but there is no info provided about a Supreme Court decision.
So until there is credible verification, I wouldn't jump to conclusions that the vaccine agenda has been turned upside down overnight, wonderful though that would be.


No apology for reposting this.
Trump must be aware of VICTORY - Bill Gates, Anthony Fauci & Big Pharma lost a Massive Supreme Court Case in USA

Just perhaps he will now take action against these people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JG5b8Qt_CY

[greybeard]

That's a very long, passionate rant in the video, apparently designed mostly to convince naysayers, but there is no info provided about a Supreme Court decision.
So until there is credible verification, I wouldn't jump to conclusions that the vaccine agenda has been turned upside down overnight, wonderful though that would be.

[QUOTE=greybeard;1356242]No apology for reposting this.
Trump must be aware of VICTORY - Bill Gates, Anthony Fauci & Big Pharma lost a Massive Supreme Court Case in USA

Just perhaps he will now take action against these people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JG5b8Qt_CY [QUOTE]

True Natalie--- sounds valid you guys in America must be able to check the validity of what he said--PLEASE do.

Chris

[greybeard]

Supreme Court rules vaccines are unavoidably unsafe - Opinion ...
www.hutchnews.com/a1f84eca-2bf8-5839-b94b-d0a0d1...

The Supreme Court has ruled vaccines are "unavoidably unsafe." Vaccines contain mercury, formaldehyde, aluminum, polysorbate 80, cell lines from aborted fetuses, tissue from hamsters, dog kidneys,...

I cant access this from UK.
Chris

[Kryztian]

but there is no info provided about a Supreme Court decision.
So until there is credible verification, I wouldn't jump to conclusions that the vaccine agenda has been turned upside down overnight,

I was looking for some verification on this too. Here is the article he is reading at the beginning of the video:

https://c-vine.com/blog/2020/04/24/who-cdc-gates-defunded-criminal-war-crime-trials-vaccine-fraud/

There are no links, court case numbers, dates, judge names or any details in the article that would connect it to verifiable court records . It is really hard to believe that it did happen, because Robert Kennedy Jr. and Del Bigtree would be telling us about it now in the many recent videos we have been watching.

Perhaps the author is not that good at verifying fact and citing references OR perhaps the author is a disinformation agent. I am sure that that the people pulling off the plandemic plan to use agents of disinformation to pull off their scam. It's hard to say what this is. I would be happy to be proven wrong, but for right now, I am not going to put any stock in this story and urge everyone to look at "information", whether they agree with it or disagree with it, with a skeptical eye.

[greybeard]

Thanks Kryztian that link is valuable in itself.
Im falling into the track of looking for good news rather than scientifically observing.
However, just maybe truth is coming out bit by bit.
Chris

[Tomkoyote]

eeLQuwa8ssc
Didn't he say not long ago that vaccine was not necessary, and now it is a mandate.
So we are back to what we feared the most - mandate vaccination deployed by the military. And they are going to start with the most vulnerable, the elderly, in nursing homes, senior citizens and the weak. Once vaccinated these people are the first to drop. Their immune system is already weak; one jab and they are gone.
We the people should demand that every member of the gov gets vaccinated starting at the top with Trump and all his cronies, minions and supporters before anybody else.

[onawah]

It may have been a state Supreme Court ruling, but if it were the US Supreme Court, it would be in all the headlines.
I think the national rulings have been more in favor of mandatory vaccines, unfortunately.

[onawah]

Trump Mobilizes Military to Deliver Coronavirus Vaccine – Appoints Another Bill Gates Funded Big Pharma Exec as Chief Military Advisor
5/15/20
https://vaccineimpact.com/2020/trump-mobilizes-military-to-deliver-coronavirus-vaccine-appoints-another-bill-gates-funded-big-pharma-exec-as-chief-military-advisor/
https://vaccineimpact.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2020/05/Moncef-Slaoui-Gustave-Perna.jpg
by Brian Shilhavy
Editor, Health Impact News

(MORE HYPERLINKS IN THE ARTICLE)
"
"President Trump announced today (May 14, 2020) that he is mobilizing the military to distribute over 300 million doses of a coronavirus vaccine by the end of the year.

Reuters reports:https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-trump/trump-says-will-mobilize-u-s-military-to-deliver-coronavirus-vaccine-idUSKBN22Q1Q2

President Donald Trump is mobilizing the U.S. military to distribute a novel coronavirus vaccine when one becomes available and will focus first on older Americans.

“You know it’s a massive job to give this vaccine,” Trump said in an interview broadcast Thursday on Fox Business Network. “Our military is now being mobilized so at the end of the year, we’re going to be able to give it to a lot of people very, very rapidly.”

He said he believes there will be a vaccine by the end of the year and the United States is mobilizing “our military and other forces” on that assumption.

The White House has set a target of having 300 million vaccine doses by the end of 2020.

Since the current population of the United States is around 330 million people, it would appear that the goal is to inject pretty much the entire population with this vaccine.

Who is the New Leader of Operation Warp Speed?Yesterday (May 13, 2020) President Trump announced that Moroccan-born Dr. Moncef Slaoui, the former chairman of GlaxoSmithKline’s vaccines division, would serve as Chief Adviser for Operation Warp Speed, the administration’s project to fast-track a COVID-19 vaccine.
Slaoui will work together with General Gustave Perna, who was appointed as the Chief Operation Officer for Operation Warp Speed.

Dr. Slaoui will become yet another member of President Trump’s medical advisors with strong ties to Bill Gates. During his days as chairman of GlaxoSmithKline’s vaccines division, Slaoui was instrumental in developing the vaccine Mosquirix, a malaria vaccine for use in tropical and subtropical areas. (Source.)

The drug was funded through The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.

In an article published on the website The Borgen Project, titled Mosquirix: New Malaria Vaccine Approved, author Katie Pickle stated in 2015 that:

'Thanks to the efforts of GlaxoSmithKline and the generous support of The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, the world’s first malaria vaccine has been approved by regulators at the European Medicine Agency.

GSK worked with the PATH Malaria Vaccine Initiative to create the immunization, which is meant for use in tropical and subtropical areas where the illness is prevalent and largely uncontrolled. Called RTS,S in its experimental stages, Mosquirix is designed for children 6-17 months old whose immune systems are still developing.

The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation contributed over $200 million to the drug’s research and development, and GSK is optimistic that it will be effective in reducing incidences of malaria in Sub-Saharan Africa where cases of malaria caused by the parasite are most common.'

The vaccine is not without its short-comings, as Pickle reported:

'The main road bump for Mosquirix? Distribution. The vaccine may exist, but to the young children in Africa who need it, it may as well be a fantasy.

The question is whether the distribution of the vaccination to areas where it is needed is worth the time and the money. The World Health Organization is skeptical of the feasibility of Mosquirix’s implementation and has not yet issued a recommendation for its use.

There is a reason that most vaccines are not made against parasites – unlike bacteria or a virus, a parasite has a complicated life cycle that transports it around the body. Parasites like those that cause malaria can remain living in the body for years.' (Source.https://borgenproject.org/malaria-vaccine-approved/)

Almost 5 years later now, the World Health Organization has approved the use of Mosquirix in African countries, but the problems remain. A report in JSTOR Daily https://daily.jstor.org/cracking-the-malaria-mystery-from-marshes-to-mosquirix/last month (April 2020) states:

'After 30 years of work, the first malaria vaccine was rolled out in Africa in 2019, despite concerns about it efficiency and safety. Named Mosquirix, it works by stimulating an immune response against a protein found on the sporozoites’ surface. Set up by WHO, the pilot effort aimed to vaccinate hundreds of thousands of children in Malawi, Ghana, and Kenya.'

Since leaving his position as the chairman of the vaccine division at GSK, Dr. Slaoui has taken on roles at several other biotech medical firms, usually sitting on their board of directors.

https://vaccineimpact.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2020/04/is-w-h-o-director-tedros-a-terro.jpg

Government watchdog groups were quick to point out the obvious conflicts of interest with Dr. Slaoui receiving funds to develop a COVID-19 vaccine, including sitting on the board with the same pharmaceutical company working with Dr. Anthony Fauci that has received hundreds of billions of dollars to develop a COVID-19 vaccine, Moderna, Inc.

Common Dreams Staff Writer Julia Conley writes:

'Government watchdog Public Citizen on Thursday condemned the Trump administration’s reported appointment of a former pharmaceutical executive to the White House’s task force aimed at swiftly developing a Covid-19 vaccine…

The administration named Moncef Slaoui, former head of GlaxoSmithKline’s vaccine division and a venture capitalist in the pharmaceutical field, to act as chief adviser for the program, called “Operation Warp Speed.”

Slaoui worked at GlaxoSmithKline for 30 years until 2017, and since then has sat on the boards of a number of pharmaceutical firms which are now researching potential vaccines for the coronavirus—leaving the former executive with what Public Citizen called “blatant financial conflicts of interest.”

Currently a partner at pharmaceutical investment firm Medicxi, Slaoui has earned $490,000 as a board member at Moderna, Inc. and also sits on the board of Lonza Group AG, a Swiss company which is contracting with Moderna to find a Covid-19 vaccine. His former employer, GlaxoSmithKine, is also working to develop an immunization.' https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/05/14/government-watchdog-sounds-alarm-over-appointment-former-pharma-executive-trumps Dr. Slaoui also has ties to Alphabet, the parent company of Google.

As a partner at Medicxi, a venture capital group that invests in pharmaceutical industry companies, he sits on the board of several companies that Medicxi has invested in, including serving as chairman of the board at Galvani Bioelectronics, a company formed in 2016 with funding from GSK and Google. (Source.)

As we have previously reported here at Health Impact News, Google is now a pharmaceutical company, and a major player in the biotech industry, which may explain why they suppress anything negative regarding vaccines in their search results.https://healthimpactnews.com/2019/google-is-now-a-pharmaceutical-company/

Galvani Bioelectronics is dedicated to the development of bioelectronic medicines – a new class of medicines consisting of miniaturised, implantable devices. (Source.)

While serving as chairman of the vaccine division of GSK, Dr. Slaoui helped develop several highly profitable vaccines, including:

• Rotarix®, to prevent infantile rotavirus gastroenteritis
• Synflorix®, to prevent pneumococcal disease
• Mosquirix, to prevent plasmodium malaria disease
• Shingrix, to prevent shingles
• Cervarix®, an HPV vaccine to prevent cervical cancer

Cervarix is GSK’s equivalent to Merck’s Gardasil HPV vaccine, which has been linked to serious injuries to young girls, including infertility.

https://vaccineimpact.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2020/05/05-05-20_Redfield_Birx_Featured_Image.jpg
Dr. Moncef Slaoui also sits on the board of the International AIDS Vaccine Initiative. (Source.)

As we have previously reported, especially through the investigative work of Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., Chairman of the Children’s Health Defense, Bill Gates, Dr. Anthony Fauci, Dr. Deborah Birx, and CDC Director Robert Redfield all have a long history of working together on trying to develop an HIV/AIDS vaccine. See:

CDC Director Dr. Redfield, Dr. Anthony Fauci, and Dr. Deborah Birx’s History of Corruption with the HIV Vaccine
And now we can add Dr. Moncef Slaoui to this team, all being employed by the U.S. Federal Government (except for Bill Gates who does not need to be employed by anyone) to fast-track the COVID-19 vaccine, that President Trump just announced will be deployed by the U.S. military."

Health Impact News UK Correspondent and Investigative Reporter Christina England contributed to this article.

Copyright 2020 Health Impact News. Free to republish using Creative Common standards with correct author attribution and links back to this original article."

See Also:
Who is Controlling the U.S. Response to COVID19: The White House or Bill Gates? https://vaccineimpact.com/2020/who-is-controlling-the-u-s-response-to-covid19-the-white-house-or-bill-gates/

[onawah]

Trump discusses the state of vaccine development
5/15/20
Fox News
(It looks like the majority of comments on the youtube page and in the chat are anti-vax. Let's hope Trump takes note, and is able to act accordingly. He did say" "not everyone will want to get it", at least....)

xb5p1IHH7qw

[onawah]

South Dakota Considers First State Bill To Outlaw All Vaccine AND Medical Mandates
(Published in early February, but certainly encouraging)
https://www.ageofautism.com/2020/02/south-dakota-considers-first-state-bill-to-outlaw-all-vaccine-and-medical-mandates.html?fbclid=IwAR3obVTcq925NiMk7td9COaQU8PTaF0f23MgLAxfabvo-SWSOGD8Pw8LfP0
Posted first by Wavydome here:http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?106821-The-US-Vaccine-issue-is-more-than-just-about-the-Shots-it-is-about-totalitarian-tiptoe&p=1356179&viewfull=1#post1356179

[magicmanx]

https://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=146888

[Tomkoyote]

He did say "not everyone will want to get it", at least....)
What do you mean Trump ???

Not everyone will want to get it.... it's their choice, we won't interfere
or
Not everyone will want to get it.... that's why we have the military ready to enforce it

I don't trust this guy a bit. He is like an eel can't grasp him, like a chameleon never sure of his color.

He is surrounded by sharks; if he wasn't one of them they would have digested him.

[ClearWater]

He did say "not everyone will want to get it", at least....)
What do you mean Trump ???

Not everyone will want to get it.... it's their choice, we won't interfere
or
Not everyone will want to get it.... that's why we have the military ready to enforce it

I don't trust this guy a bit. He is like an eel can't grasp him, like a chameleon never sure of his color.

He is surrounded by sharks; if he wasn't one of them they would have digested him.

Video footage of what he said can be found at the link in the post directly above yours. You can watch it and come to your own conclusion. :)

[Yetti]

tell us where will be now if Trump didn't win? total ww3 at least

[Luke Holiday]

He did say "not everyone will want to get it", at least....)
What do you mean Trump ???

Not everyone will want to get it.... it's their choice, we won't interfere
or
Not everyone will want to get it.... that's why we have the military ready to enforce it

I don't trust this guy a bit. He is like an eel can't grasp him, like a chameleon never sure of his color.

He is survrounded by sharks; if he wasn't one of them they would have digested him.

Agreed - he is surrounded by sharks - but one thing to remember is that his son, Baron, may have been damaged by a vaccine and early on in his campaign/presidency, DJT was committed to protecting anti vaxxers rights...

]https://bolenreport.com/barron-trump-suffer-vaccine-injury/

[Tomkoyote]

[QUOTE=Tomkoyote;1356471]DJT was committed to protecting anti vaxxers rights...
To me this is a non sense. "Anti vaxxer" has been manufactured by the same propagandists who manufactured "Conspiracy theory".

If I don't eat raw fish then I am an anti-fisher
If I don't meat then I am an anti-meater

"Anti vaxxer" was manufactured to confuse the cattle.
If DJT is committed to solve this issue, protecting "anti vaxxers" is like farting in the clouds.
I give zero credit to whoever wanting to "protects the rights of anti vaxxers"
I will give credit to whoever makes vaccination totally optional and also make it totally illegal to require vaccination before obtaining anything like, go to school, travel, apply for a job, etc...

[onawah]

Trump is ‘the most anti-nature President in U.S. history’—report
06/09/2020 9:21 am ET • Caroline Mulligan
https://www.frontpagelive.com/2020/06/09/trump-public-lands/?utm_source=facebook_infl&utm_medium=post&utm_campaign=trump+anti+nature&utm_content=002&utm_gen=utmdc
http://https://www.frontpagelive.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/trump-is-the-worst-president-for-americas-public-lands-1024x536.jpg
(This will no doubt have Trump fans up in arms, but Trump's record on the environment is undeniably terrible. Just ask the Native Americans. )

"Teddy Roosevelt must be turning in his grave: apparently, making America great again means undoing years of protections for public lands.

A new report from the Center for American Progress highlights just how much Trump has undermined conservation efforts. He’s removed or is attempting to remove protections from 35 million acres of public land.

To put that in perspective, that’s an area the size of Florida. It’s like if Trump eliminated a National Park 15 times the size of Yellowstone.

https://www.frontpagelive.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/trump-is-the-worst-president-for-americas-public-lands-2-1024x536.jpg

This attack on public lands is truly unprecedented. As the Center for American Progress puts it, “President Trump is the only president in U.S. history to have removed more public lands than he protected.” That why they call him “the most anti-nature president in U.S. history.”

This isn’t partisan politics
Trump’s actions are at odds with previous Republican presidents. Even George W. Bush placed protections on almost 4 million acres of land while he was president. H.W. Bush and Reagan conserved far more, at 17.8 million and 12.5 million acres, respectively.

Of course, those numbers are tiny compared to Obama’s 548 million acres. But the point still stands that what Trump has done isn’t business as usual. It’s his own, unique brand of pandering to gas and oil companies—and make no mistake, that’s exactly what he’s doing.

From protected lands to a polluter’s playground
Trump has targeted lands in 12 states, but Alaska has been one of the most impacted. Opening the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to oil and gas drilling is one of Trump’s primary goals. He’s also trying to undo an Obama-era prohibition on development in half of the National Petroleum Reserve-Alaska.

Other impacted states include Minnesota, where a metal company owned by Ivanka Trump’s landlord has long been trying to mine around the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness. Utah and Montana both had multiple sites stripped of their protections.

In the colonized U.S., exploiting land is par for the course
It’s worth noting that Indigenous peoples are often the ones most affected when lands are opened up for resource extraction.

Much of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge is located on the homelands of the Gwich’in people. Drilling on the Refuge would endanger the caribou that have been an integral part of the Gwich’in’s culture and survival for millennia.

Thousands of miles away, the Tohono O’odham have long performed religious ceremonies in the land that currently makes up the Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument. But Trump removed protections from that area to build his border wall.

And then there’s Bears Ears National Monument in Utah, which Trump reduced by about 85%. Over a dozen Indigenous nations, including the Jicarilla Apache, the Hopi, and the Navajo have connections to that area. Several tribes are currently fighting in the courts to save Bears Ears.

While the judicial system could reverse some of Trump’s decisions, it’s unlikely that all 35 million acres will be saved. We can only hope that Trump’s successor will be able to replace those protections before the mining and drilling companies can do too much harm."

[TargeT]

"national" parks are not allowed in the constitution... they should be "state" parks........

quit reading biased media, don't allow your self to be passive-agressively robbed of power..... the 10th AMENDMENT is real and MEANS so much.


I am a libertarian, but I will not discount trump's various "good" moves (as well as his various corporatocracy (https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/corporategovernance.asp) moves)


This attack on public lands is truly unprecedented. As the Center for American Progress puts it, “President Trump is the only president in U.S. history to have removed more public lands than he protected.” That why they call him “the most anti-nature president in U.S. history.”

The federal government has VERY limited property rights (ON PURPOSE!!!!!!! READ (Comprehend) the constitution!).......... I'm so shocked that this is even discussed... the STATES should manage these assets... we are the UNITED STATES not the FEDERAL states.

[onawah]

Not sure what your point is, Target.
The article looks quite credible to me, and never refers to parks as "national parks" but rather as "public lands".
Trump's policies obviously have had an impact on those "public lands", not to mention the imperiled status of endangered species.
The Native Americans are keeping track, even if the lamestream media isn't reporting it.


"national" parks are not allowed in the constitution... they should be "state" parks........

quit reading biased media, don't allow your self to be passive-agressively robbed of power..... the 10th AMENDMENT is real and MEANS so much.


I am a libertarian, but I will not discount trump's various "good" moves (as well as his various corporatocracy (https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/corporategovernance.asp) moves)


This attack on public lands is truly unprecedented. As the Center for American Progress puts it, “President Trump is the only president in U.S. history to have removed more public lands than he protected.” That why they call him “the most anti-nature president in U.S. history.”

The federal government has VERY limited property rights (ON PURPOSE!!!!!!! READ (Comprehend) the constitution!).......... I'm so shocked that this is even discussed... the STATES should manage these assets... we are the UNITED STATES not the FEDERAL states.

[Chester]

It may have been a state Supreme Court ruling, but if it were the US Supreme Court, it would be in all the headlines.
I think the national rulings have been more in favor of mandatory vaccines, unfortunately.

Here's the relevant court document - it is Federal Court and it is the grand pappy of them all, the Southern District of New York but all that seems to have come out of this case is an admission by the CDC they can't back up their claims that there we safety studies proving vaccines don't cause autism.

The finding of this document was done by a friend of ours who prefers to remain anonymous but I thank this friend greatly.

https://www.icandecide.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Stipulation-and-Order-Fully-Executed.pdf

[Kryztian]

The Tenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitutions states:


Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every power, jurisdiction, and right, which is not by this Confederation expressly delegated to the United States, in Congress assembled.

If the constitution didn't already give the power of owning land to the Federal government, then you would be correct Target. However, Article 4, Section 3, Clause 2 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Four_of_the_United_States_Constitution#Clause_2:_Property_Clause), is the property clause:


The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State

The constitution specifically states that the Federal government has this power. It is quite constitutional for the Federal Government to own land.

[Kryztian]

Mary Trump: How my family created the world’s most dangerous man
US president’s niece to publish ‘harrowing’ revelations in Too Much and Never Enough

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/mary-trump-how-my-family-created-the-world-s-most-dangerous-man-1.4280440


https://i.imgur.com/PV5hWhT.jpg

A niece of President Donald Trump will divulge a series of damaging stories about him in an upcoming book, the first time that the president could be forced to grapple with unflattering revelations by a member of his own family.

The niece, Mary Trump, will release the book, Too Much and Never Enough: How My Family Created the World’s Most Dangerous Man, on July 28th, according to her publisher, Simon & Schuster. The Daily Beast first reported on the book on Sunday. In the book, Mary Trump, who is 55, will say she was a primary source for the New York Times’s coverage of Trump’s finances and provided the newspaper with confidential tax documents. A spokeswoman for newspaper declined to comment on Sunday. The White House did not respond to a request for comment.

Three journalists from the New York Times received the Pulitzer Prize for explanatory reporting last year for their work providing an unprecedented look at the Trump family’s finances and contradicting Trump’s image as a self-made billionaire. Mary Trump is the daughter of Fred Trump jnr, the president’s older brother, who died in 1981. She has mostly kept out of the public eye, except for a family feud over the will of the Trump family patriarch, Fred Trump snr, who died in 1999.


* * * * *

I am not planning to buy or read this book. I certainly don't think Trump is "the world's most dangerous man" and I have to wonder if this book will keep the main stream media focused on his personality and away from the actual harm he is doing to the nation.

[onawah]

How Trump’s Consumer Safety Nominee Weakened Regulation of ‘Forever Chemicals’ in Consumer Products
By Scott Faber, Senior VP, Government Affairs
JUNE 16, 2020
https://www.ewg.org/news-and-analysis/2020/06/how-trump-s-consumer-safety-nominee-weakened-regulation-forever-chemicals?utm_campaign=EWG+Content&utm_content=1592935468&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=facebook

"There are many reasons for the Senate to oppose President Trump’s nominee to chair the Consumer Products Safety Commission, Nancy Beck.

Since 1980, the use of methylene chloride in paint strippers has killed scores of people. But while in a top position at the Environmental Protection Agency’s Office of Chemical Safety, Beck delayed a proposed ban of methylene chloride in paint strippers. People died.

Beck also stymied a proposed ban of some uses of the known carcinogen TCE, which contaminates hundreds of military bases, and played down the impact of TCE on fetal hearts. Beck twisted federal law to frustrate EPA’s efforts to finally ban asbestos – an interpretation recently deemed illegal.

But it’s Beck’s efforts to weaken consumer protections from the toxic fluorinated chemicals known as PFAS – also called “forever” chemicals because they never break down and build up in our blood – that should give senators the most serious pause.

Records released by the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee show that Beck succeeded in weakening a regulation that requires companies to notify and get permission from the EPA before they start using so-called long-chain PFAS like PFOA – the most notorious of the PFAS chemicals, linked to cancer and other serious health effects – in consumer products ranging from carpets to wiring to clothing.

In 2015, the EPA proposed a Significant New Use Rule, or SNUR, for long-chain PFAS that applied to many products. What that means is that manufacturers of everyday products would not only have to let the EPA know they were planning to use PFOA or other long-chain PFAS but would also have to seek the agency’s approval.

In 2017, when Beck took a senior position in the EPA’s chemical safety office, she sought to exploit a provision in a new toxic chemical law to weaken the SNUR for PFAS. After she left the EPA to work at the White House, records show, Beck continued her crusade against PFAS regulation.

Earlier this year, Beck succeeded in her quest to narrow the scope of the rule by limiting it to the surface coatings of products. As a result of her efforts, a company could use PFOA inside a product without getting the EPA’s permission – even though many products degrade over time or wind up being disposed of in a landfill or incinerator.

Since PFAS never break down, it’s only a matter of when, not whether, people will be exposed to PFAS in products. But Beck has imposed her baseless view on the EPA that using PFOA and other long-chain PFAS inside products does not create “reasonable potential for exposure.” This is bad science – combined with bad intentions.

The PFAS rule is not final. But if left unchanged, many new uses of long-chain PFAS, like PFOA in consumer products, will escape the EPA’s oversight and regulation. Ultimately, PFAS will end up in our food, or our drinking water – and in us.

If confirmed to chair the Consumer Products Safety Commission, Beck would be in the position of deciding whether to ban toxic flame retardants in children’s products and other consumer products. While Beck directed science policy at the American Chemistry Council, the powerful chemical manufacturers’ lobby opposed such a ban.

Is someone who delayed a ban of a paint-stripping chemical that kills workers and consumers and weakened regulation of toxic forever chemicals in consumer products the right person to chair the agency charged with protecting consumers from unsafe products?

Retired Marine Corps Master Sgt. Jerry Ensminger, who lost his nine-year-old daughter to leukemia after she was exposed to TCE pollution at Camp LeJeune, said Beck “has shown us exactly who she is. Over and over again. She is not somebody who is ever going to use her authority or power to protect people from toxic chemicals, from dangerous products, or from careless companies. That is not who Nancy Beck is.”

He's right. We know who Nancy Beck is."

[onawah]

DOJ's New WikiLeaks Indictment Has Significant, Convenient Plot Holes
Trump’s Charges Against Julian Assange Would Effectively Criminalize Investigative Journalism
Ever since the Pentagon Papers case, an Espionage Act loophole has been waiting for a president thuggish enough to make use of it
The indictment of Assange is a blueprint for making journalists into felons
Media analysis of Julian Assange’s superseding indictment
Trump Justice Department’s Prosecution Of Julian Assange Relies On Contrived Conspiracy Theory
Prosecuting Julian Assange for espionage is a coup attempt against the First Amendment


Much more here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?101183-Current-Wikileaks-and-Assange-News-Releases&p=1362815&viewfull=1#post1362815

[onawah]

The Deep State Chaos Op
Review from Alexandra Bruce of Forbidden Knowledge of the last DJ interview with C.A. Fitts
9/28/20
https://forbiddenknowledgetv.net/dark-journalist-catherine-austin-fitts-the-deep-state-chaos-op/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1675&v=kcKtelC7upM&feature=emb_logo
(Also posted here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?102135-Dark-Journalist-Joseph-Farrell-UFO-X-Factor-Black-Budget-Secret-Space-Network-16-March-2018&p=1380484&viewfull=1#post1380484)

"Catherine Austin Fitts joins Dark Journalist to discuss the CoronaHoax Flu d'État - and she says some unexpected things, here:

In this non-subscriber Part 1 episode, Fitts isn't totally anti-Trump. She notes his impressive physical and mental stamina, for having survived the siege of the past 4 years but she pulls no punches in her criticisms and in some very incendiary insinuations against him:

"I'm not going to give him a pass on COVID-19. He basically bankrupted hundreds of thousands of legitimate businesses and is allowing the private equity guys to make a fortune taking over that market share.

"I mean, it's pretty simple. Over here, you got Main Street. You shut them down and you say they're 'non-essential' and then you give zero percent cost of capital to these big guys, who go in and take all the market. It's the ultimate in economic warfare. He just destroyed Main Street.

"That was him. People say, 'Oh no, it's the governors, the state governors." No. It's not the state governors. If you had told the truth about all of this, it would have shut it down, right away, number one. But number two, if the CDC has the power to stop evictions nationwide, they have the power to stop these shutdowns. There was no scientific basis for them.

"Trump has to take responsibility for not stopping the riots. He has to take responsibility for shutting down and destroying Main Street. He just bankrupted millions of legitimate people who supported him."

Fitts also seems to suggest that Trump may be in on the riots on some level, as well as members of the Pentagon.

That the riots are so incredibly illegal, breaking many laws, that they could be legally shut down in a matter 24 hours, this suggests to her that Trump supports the riots on some level and she wonders aloud if they're being financed by FASB 56 (Federal Accounting Standards Advisory Board Statement 56), which Trump approved in 2018 and which authorizes the Government’s use of secret accounting books on a permanent basis, so that the US Treasury can be looted endlessly to finance Black Budget projects into perpetuity.

She says here, "NSA is tracking them all. The Fed and Treasury, FinCEN know where all the money is, so they know where the money's coming from and the Department of Justice can shut them down.

"So, you have total intelligence about who they are, where they're coming and who's financing them, and they're breaking the law and Department of Justice can shut it down in 24 hours.

"I mean, I know what the Department of Justice could do to me, right? I had a business. I was a fine, upstanding citizen in Washington and I know what was done to me. So don't tell me they can't shut this down. They can shut this down like that. And if they're not doing it, there's a reason...

"Those aren't street revolts. That's an operation, right? So, let's call what it is. It's a multi-layered op. It's an op and somebody's financing the op...

"Way back in the beginning, during Minneapolis, Trump said, 'I'm going to send in' - I forget, it was the National Guard or the Army or whatever - and the and the DoD went ballistic. And I'll tell you how they behaved. They behaved like people who had negotiated contracts with private firms for all of this and you had a Scope of Work and you had priced it on a very tight Scope of Work and that Scope of Work did not include doing this in the face of soldiers with guns trying to stop them. That would have blown the price, like a hundred times and called for a different army.

"It looked exactly like a big contracting Scope of Work mess...I've said, 'Okay, they're on both sides.' They negotiated with the team to go in and do this. They don't want to send in a team to stop the team, they just are paying to go in and do this. I mean, that's my question. Are these riots being financed with FASB 56 money?"

Fitts suggests an incredibly underhanded agenda behind allowing the rioters to continue tearing the country down and it's because the US is effectively bankrupt. However, "You still have obligations. You have military pensions, you have Social Security, you have all these healthcare obligations, so you've pulled the assets out but you haven't gotten rid of the liabilities.

"Well, how do you get rid of the liabilities? If you have a civil war and people demand that their states secede from the nation, you can say, 'Well, the people didn't want the vehicle anymore, so they they would rather walk away. They chose to secede rather than get Social Security.'

"You need a war to get the people to self-destruct their own covenant. In other words, they are owed trillions of dollars in healthcare, trillions of dollars in retirement obligations, trillions of dollars in many different regulatory obligations and now, what you want to do is you want to slither out of them without admitting that you stole all the money.

"Your job is not just to slither out of Social Security and FDIC insurance and all these other obligations, your job is to make sure you can keep the $21 trillion. And if you destroy the mechanism, then they have no vehicle to ever get the $21 trillion back. If you bankrupt the country now...I would argue you can put that $21 trillion back on the plate and claw it or assets back in a bankruptcy to help pay for those obligations, to keep your promise...

"You need the mechanism to be destroyed and you need the people to destroy the mechanism. Remember, you're trying to get the younger generation to support you destroying their family wealth and the money they stand to inherit.

"I just had a back and forth with a wonderful young man on my subscriber you know the forum on our website, where he was saying he wants to secede from the nation and, who cares about the obligations to all those Boomers who betrayed him and sold him down the river?

"And I said, 'Wait a minute. Let's get the state of play correct. You had this group steal all the money. Those greedy Boomers were sitting there, paying for your college, taking care of their grandparents, doing philanthropy, keeping the civic life in their community going and they got snookered. They put all that money in the pension fund that these guys then stole, so you know they're not your enemy it's a little bit like the Harry Potter game, you know, make the insiders out to be Wizards and your stupid parents out to be Muggles.

"Who cares about the Muggles? Let's ditch them! Not realizing you're not ditching them, you're ditching the inheritance they were going to leave you, right? If you look at the inter-generational politics and the sexual and racial politics of a lot of these games, it's amazing but it's all designed to divide and conquer.""

[chancy]

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/adi-donald-trump-won-t-185335323.html

Adiós, Donald Trump. I won’t forgive or forget what you did to my Miami | Opinion
[Miami Herald]
Fabiola Santiago
Miami HeraldNovember 7, 2020
Adiós, Donald Trump. I won’t forgive or forget what you did to my Miami | OpinionAdiós, Donald Trump. I won’t forgive or forget what you did to my Miami | Opinion

Adiós, President Donald Trump.

You came to Miami and used our love of homelands lost, our wounds as exiles to manipulate our people into thinking you’d be a messiah for the Americas when you were only thinking about your interests all along. You and only you, first and foremost.

You divided family, neighbors, friends, colleagues.

I’ll never forget that the last time I saw a coworker with whom I shared good times and good work. His look of disgust, then avoidance of me. He didn’t like my columns exposing your racism and anti-immigrant agenda.

He died, and that’s how you left things between us.

He, dazzled by your promises of a free Cuba and your Make America Great Again charade. Me, chronicling the damage done to the soul of a city that uplifted, not rejected, immigrants until you came along, demanded acquiescence, and the spineless Republican leadership complied.

Always the campaigner and never the leader the nation needed, you turned toxic campaign lines into toxic policies that separated families, ripping children from their parents’ arms. Your nasty, soul-crushing rhetoric had people in this town who came as children and who know the suffering justifying you. They should have known better.

No matter the issues, no matter the politics, I had never felt ashamed of my community — until you came along, appealed to the worst in us and stunk up Miami-Dade with fumes of racist, homophobic, classist evil.

I am still broken inside from seeing and hearing my people turned into wholesale liars and fascists, echoing you and your white-supremacist dog whistles. They not only hurt Miami, they also put in jeopardy the cause of a free Cuba. You lose advocates and allies when you act like you want to replace communism with fascism.

I may forgive (though never forget) the walking wounded in Miami-Dade who fell for your falsehoods, but I won’t forgive you, the Chusma-in-Chief, who elevated the vulgar to presidential heights.

Joe Biden will be the healing voice this community and America need.

Good riddance to you — no thanks to battleground Florida in which your surrogates resurrected its dormant Jim Crow ways in a pitiful attempt to disenfranchise Blacks and Latinos, part of a social-engineering experiment you and your advisors concocted to halt the browning of America.

Hello, President Joe Biden. Hello Vice President Kamala Harris, history-maker, the first woman to hold that office in a country that, at least in its politics, is more machista than Latin America.

Thank you, Pennsylvania, cradle of the Declaration of Independence.

In Florida, Democrat Joe Biden couldn’t shake the lies you and the GOP told. The disinformation campaign you ran calling Democrats radical socialists and communists ran deep and dark, and Biden lost the state.

In Florida, Biden couldn’t shake Trump’s lie that Democrats are radical socialists | Opinion

Thankfully, the rest of the nation didn’t need Florida to send you packing to your former “Winter White House,” Mar-a-Lago.
Disciples remain

But, ugh, to have you as a full time Florida resident now.

What a curse: more of you.

You’ll be happy in this state, solidly in Republican control now thanks to you. No doubt, your faithful soldiers, led by your disciple Gov. Ron DeSantis, will continue singing your praises and spinning the undemocratic falsehood that the election was stolen from you ‘til kingdom come.

They will continue using their alliance with you to uplift themselves, making bad political trouble when what they should be doing is helping heal the country, our state, our neighborhoods.

But I hope you’ll tire of us. I hope your change of address to South Florida was only for show and motivated by our accessible and expedient (in most cases) vote-by-mail system, the one you continue to degrade with lies.

Why don’t you stay away locked up in your gaudy Trump Tower?

Or claim asylum in Russia? Anywhere but here will do.

We’ve got a lot of mending to do here.

Despite your brief reign, Trumpism will remain alive and well in Miami-Dade, I know.

Here we often talk about how when the Castros’ evil dictatorship finally dies out in Cuba, the country will need not only physical, but also psychological and societal, reconstruction.

The same applies to us. We have a similar arduous task ahead in our cities and our nation. We need a soul makeover, we need political surgery to retake healthy debate on issues, not engage in fear-mongering and red-baiting.

You were the caudillo we fled, no savior of Cuba or Venezuela or Nicaragua, and you almost destroyed the best of the United States, its democratic checks and balances, in four endlessly long years.

Trump isn’t our savior from socialism, Florida Latinos. He’s the ‘caudillo’ we fled | Opinion

Unfortunately, Trumpism will linger the way Castroism does in Cuba and Chavismo in Venezuela. That’s the legacy of dictatorships, authoritarianism and populism.

For now, all we can do is celebrate that your re-election campaign is dead, grateful for the good sense of other battleground states in the nation.

“I’d been waiting to fly my flag until it had the correct meaning again!” texted my friend Ileana Oroza, a retired Cuban-American journalist and educator, with a photograph of Old Glory flying in the wind from her balcony in Miami Beach.

I choked up when she sent it, this symbol of democracy and decency prevailing in our country.

Adiós, Donald Trump. Good riddance to your brief, dishonest and hateful reign.

You were the caudillo we fled, no savior of Cuba or Venezuela or Nicaragua, and you almost destroyed the best of the United States, its democratic checks and balances, in four endlessly long years.

Trump isn’t our savior from socialism, Florida Latinos. He’s the ‘caudillo’ we fled | Opinion

Unfortunately, Trumpism will linger the way Castroism does in Cuba and Chavismo in Venezuela. That’s the legacy of dictatorships, authoritarianism and populism.

For now, all we can do is celebrate that your re-election campaign is dead, grateful for the good sense of other battleground states in the nation.

“I’d been waiting to fly my flag until it had the correct meaning again!” texted my friend Ileana Oroza, a retired Cuban-American journalist and educator, with a photograph of Old Glory flying in the wind from her balcony in Miami Beach.

I choked up when she sent it, this symbol of democracy and decency prevailing in our country.

Adiós, Donald Trump. Good riddance to your brief, dishonest and hateful reign.

There's nothing else to say or comment on...............

[Kamikaze]

delete it all.

[PurpleLama]

Yeah, these people really hate DJT, so obvious....

6HpwNRSE4nM

[Sue (Ayt)]

Again the media steps in to try to foment division.
Watch for it.
Sadly, I suspect that they will NOT stop.

Out of curiosity, whether we were pro-Trump or anti-Trump, can we agree that the media has been purposely creating anger and fear?
Can we continue to examine everything to guard against divisive propaganda?

(Below is a link from 2013 about the author of the OP article, Fabiola Santiago.)
Fabiola Santiago just may be the Miami Herald's most fraudulent columnist (http://randompixels.blogspot.com/2013/07/fabiola-santiago-just-may-be-miami.html)

[Arak]

Again the media steps in to try to foment division.
Watch for it.
Sadly, I suspect that they will NOT stop.

Out of curiosity, whether we were pro-Trump or anti-Trump, can we agree that the media has been purposely creating anger and fear?
Can we continue to examine everything to guard against divisive propaganda?
..

I have studied a bit of communication and media research and history while doing master’s degree and indeed, media lives from fear. It just has been found a long time ago, during WW2 if I remember right, that negative information that generates fear spreads much better. In the days of digital advertising (which I know alot about btw) the one who has most visitors prevails. And you get visitors by generating shocking news, which often contain the element of fear.

[Philippe]

You know a lot about digital advertising. No doubt knowing Finland for having worked there. All creative energy of a whole generation of programmers goes in this technology. All manipulators. The digitization is the greatest threat to our civilization says Paul Roberts. I despise these hidden programmers who destroy democracy and now even elections. I can only say this bluntly, sorry.

[Haujean Contactee]

At least 90% of the corporate media is owned by a handful of globalist corporations and the CIA is in full control over it. From day to day you can watch a talking point and even a word or a phrase be repeated on your local news all the way up to the national networks. We first learned about how the CIA controls the media in the "Church Hearings" where "Operation Mockingbird" was first exposed. They have carefully crafted a false reality for nearly a century. Before the CIA the ruling elites had a less sophisticated means of spreading propaganda. And now with social media censorship combined with holywood filth and the CIA media shills they have created a virtual reality to trap your mind so that you sell out yourself, your family, and your country to a sinister globalist agenda. Every nation in the transatlantic system has fallen victim to the very same program. Since Trump took office we have been hit with a nonstop assault of the worst propaganda from literally every direction. From movies to TV shows, late night comedians, university professors, media mockingbird shills, on down, they have hit us with everything they have to maintain control. And the weakest of mind and heart are the ones that fall for it while the rest of us see it all for exactly what it is.

They will stage terrorist attacks, stage coups of world leaders, rig elections, release genetically engineered viruses, corrupt our institutions of learning, shut down or buy out our independent media sources, strip us of our means and right to personal defense, divide our families and friends, harass and intimidate us, corrupt our minds and hearts, and finally censor and arrest us for our universal right to free expression and personal liberty. And it doesn't matter which country you are in because the system is active in every nation under the transatlantic umbrella.

From my experience you can't waste your time on the weak minded even if you convince them that they are wrong because you will never get them to stand up for themselves and our collective community. You have to find like minds and hearts and educate and empower them to force the change that is necessary to stop this disgusting evil death cult. The future that they have for us is not our future. And don't ever lay down, give in, and accept it. Ignore those who say, "you can't do anything about it", because they are only speaking about their self. They never had it in them to begin with and they likely never will in this life and possibly the next. Don't let the darkness envelope you because our future is bright but only if we look within ourselves for what we need to turn this around. A fractional 1% of evil people and their hordes of deluded minions cannot stop a unified majority.

[IChingUChing]

"Joe Biden will be the healing voice this community and America need."

How can anybody seriously believe this?

A. Joe Biden, I mean Joe Biden the healing voice of anything?

B. It was up to the writer to heal his relationship with his colleague.

C. Same goes for the individuals making up the community.

Come on, stop looking for messiahs to heal everything for us. We have to become the change we are looking for. If we can't change our own hearts, Joe Biden certainly can't!

[Haujean Contactee]

"Joe Biden will be the healing voice this community and America need."

How can anybody seriously believe this?

A. Joe Biden, I mean Joe Biden the healing voice of anything?

B. It was up to the writer to heal his relationship with his colleague.

C. Same goes for the individuals making up the community.

Come on, stop looking for messiahs to heal everything for us. We have to become the change we are looking for. If we can't change our own hearts, Joe Biden certainly can't!

These people are suffering from a CIA induced case of Stockholm Syndrome. They now see their abuser as their source of comfort while they turn against those who are trying to help them.

[Arak]

You know a lot about digital advertising. No doubt knowing Finland for having worked there. All creative energy of a whole generation of programmers goes in this technology. All manipulators. The digitization is the greatest threat to our civilization says Paul Roberts. I despise these hidden programmers who destroy democracy and now even elections. I can only say this bluntly, sorry.
Yes. But tbh, media and advertising have had the same power already for decades. Digital advertising just provides the tools for bigger client pool. Before you had to have huge budgets to spread the message with TV and print... I dont think there is undo, the best is to learn the tricks and use them to advance preferred agenda. Sad but that is the reality.

[happyuk]

Pompous and tedious.
Liberal use of terms "racist", "fascist", "white-supremacist" but no understanding of what these terms actually mean.
Yawn. Anyone reading this is on a hiding to nothing.
Trump a white-supremacist? Seriously??

If you're going to write about Trump's undoubted shortcomings, at least do so in a manner that isn't insulting to the intelligence.

[Sue (Ayt)]

Yes. But tbh, media and advertising have had the same power already for decades. Digital advertising just provides the tools for bigger client pool. Before you had to have huge budgets to spread the message with TV and print... I dont think there is undo, the best is to learn the tricks and use them to advance preferred agenda. Sad but that is the reality.

Although I don't fully understand it, the Smith-Mundt Act which safeguarded against propaganda was ammended and then passed in 2013 by Obama.
Maybe someone with more knowledge about this could explain what exactly happened with that, but blatant media twisting and lying sure seemed to accelerate after that! Before, although there has always been right or left leaning media, false info still appeared to be illegal.

"The SMA established that via the Broadcasting Board of Governors (BBG), Voice of America (VOA), and Radio Free Europe (RFE), the U.S. State Department and Office of Public Affairs were authorized to disseminate propaganda to foreign publics, but were strictly prohibited from releasing that same propaganda in America for public consumption. Put simply, our government was permitted to lie to people in other countries, but not to us here at home.

This prohibition was lifted in 2012, when the SMMA was signed into law by President Obama, allowing the same propaganda disseminated by our government to foreign publics, to now be released in the U.S. for the very first time."
The Smith-Mundt Modernization Act of 2012 (https://www.rcreader.com/commentary/smith-mundt-modernization-act-2012)

[Patient]

Also, subliminal advertising use to have regulations, but not anymore. With the advances in technology the majority of people are very susceptible to all kinds of manipulation.

People need to be made aware of what they are faced with on a daily basis. It is tough to break through once a person is buried under.

[TargeT]

I can't say I understand why it was deleted. I've seen equally negative posts (many) about Biden and Harris.

It was not a comment based on data, negative posts about the Bidens are data based.

This is a large difference.

[Forest Denizen]

Right. Okay. Thanks for that.

[Tinman]

Sorry, not humiliated at all. A vile hateful man does not deserve my respect and I stand by my words.

[TargeT]

Sorry, not humiliated at all. A vile hateful man does not deserve my respect and I stand by my words.

Do you have anything to show as examples of this conclusion you have come to or are you satisfied that it is how you feel?

[Tinman]

I can't say I understand why it was deleted. I've seen equally negative posts (many) about Biden and Harris.

It was not a comment based on data, negative posts about the bidens are data based.

This is a large difference.




All the data I need are to listen to the filth that comes out of trump’s mouth, and watch his actions. He is a proven pathological liar and his words are hateful. I don’t need more data than that. There are 4 years worth of videos and tweets that show all who care to listen and read what kind of a hateful man he is.

[AutumnW]

Mod note from Bill:

Tinman, thanks for quoting your post immediately above. That will help readers to see why it was deleted.

:focus:

Tinman is talking about a much reviled public figure, not a fellow forum member. Is the forum now "cleansing" itself using a strange 'higher ground' principle? You would be wise, Mr. Ryan, to curb your own enthusiasm.

[Justplain]

The in-your-face censorship of alternate viewpoints, including scientific ones, is blatantly obvious in the Covid19 scamdemic, and the 2020 US election. The only thing that would shove this BS back in their faces would be Trump getting the courts to force a supervised recount in all the contested states, and overturning the result of this election. That would send a lot of people for a loop.

[Deneon]

Let me preface this that if there has been any voter fraud or irregularities, that should be brought to light. If that means Trump actually won, so be it.

Having said that, I really don't understand the support for Trump on this forum. He is about a spiritually aware as a pair of tweezers.

I would think that most people on this forum would choose love over hate, unity over division, kindness over anger and truth above lies. I can understand that you like some of what he and his administration have done over the past 4 years. You can agree or disagree with that. But this man has never uttered a kind word out of his mouth, does everything he can to divide the american people, has demonstrably told lies everyday for the past 4 years and I doubt he loves anything or anyone but himself. I won't even say he's sexist and racist, because that could lead to heated debates. But the 4 points I mentioned before I don't think are up for debate, right?

I understand he's an outsider, but does that mean he is a good president to lead the USA? You could put a baboon in office and the same thing can be said. Would that be a good idea? The end (ending the globalist elite control) does not justify the means (supporting this horrible, narcissistic bully). I don't believe he will actually make a dent in the global elite control, but even *if* you believe that.. Can you really look past this man's personality, and character? I can't, and I don't understand how so many people apparently can. Especially on a forum like this.

[Open Minded Dude]

The original article has the usual ingredients of a 'Liberal' view. Contains all the Orange-Man-Bad-For-Whatever-Happens-To-Us/Me and even the Russia-Is-Bad rhethoric. Boring.

It is also interesting to see how these people blame anyone but themselves if they do not get on with people who have another worldview opinion. Instead of working on their own ego and learn to open their minds they just play the blame game searching for a boogeyman.

[AriG]

Let me preface this that if there has been any voter fraud or irregularities, that should be brought to light. If that means Trump actually won, so be it.

Having said that, I really don't understand the support for Trump on this forum. He is about a spiritually aware as a pair of tweezers.

I would think that most people on this forum would choose love over hate, unity over division, kindness over anger and truth above lies. I can understand that you like some of what he and his administration have done over the past 4 years. You can agree or disagree with that. But this man has never uttered a kind word out of his mouth, does everything he can to divide the american people, has demonstrably told lies everyday for the past 4 years and I doubt he loves anything or anyone but himself. I won't even say he's sexist and racist, because that could lead to heated debates. But the 4 points I mentioned before I don't think are up for debate, right?

I understand he's an outsider, but does that mean he is a good president to lead the USA? You could put a baboon in office and the same thing can be said. Would that be a good idea? The end (ending the globalist elite control) does not justify the means (supporting this horrible, narcissistic bully). I don't believe he will actually make a dent in the global elite control, but even *if* you believe that.. Can you really look past this man's personality, and character? I can't, and I don't understand how so many people apparently can. Especially on a forum like this.

You, quite honestly? Don’t sound very spiritual in your observations.

Here is a really good example of how you have lost the script:

https://humansarefree.com/2020/10/archbishop-carlo-maria-vigano-warns-trump-about-great-reset-plot-to-subdue-humanity-destroy-freedom.html

[Billy Vasiliadis]

Very well said Deneon. The point you make about the end not justifying the means is something worth considering deeply. The end and the means are inseparable, as I have heard many awake and aware people repeat time and time again. This quote from Eckhart Tolle says it well:

"But the end and the means are one. And if the means did not contribute to human happiness, neither will the end".

For whatever disagreements we may have around Trump and what his presidency means, if we can engage in the kind of discourse Deneon has shown, I feel like we can get through these disagreements with some grace and shared learning.

[Ratszinger]

Let me preface this that if there has been any voter fraud or irregularities, that should be brought to light. If that means Trump actually won, so be it.

Having said that, I really don't understand the support for Trump on this forum. He is about a spiritually aware as a pair of tweezers.

I would think that most people on this forum would choose love over hate, unity over division, kindness over anger and truth above lies. I can understand that you like some of what he and his administration have done over the past 4 years. You can agree or disagree with that. But this man has never uttered a kind word out of his mouth, does everything he can to divide the american people, has demonstrably told lies everyday for the past 4 years and I doubt he loves anything or anyone but himself. I won't even say he's sexist and racist, because that could lead to heated debates. But the 4 points I mentioned before I don't think are up for debate, right?

I understand he's an outsider, but does that mean he is a good president to lead the USA? You could put a baboon in office and the same thing can be said. Would that be a good idea? The end (ending the globalist elite control) does not justify the means (supporting this horrible, narcissistic bully). I don't believe he will actually make a dent in the global elite control, but even *if* you believe that.. Can you really look past this man's personality, and character? I can't, and I don't understand how so many people apparently can. Especially on a forum like this.

All that has ever been elected into office since I was first able to vote have been liars. One of things you ask you answer yourself. His personality, his very character ugly as it is, naive as it is politically, as narcissistic as it is demands that he wear it on his sleeves!! No president has ever been more honest! His body language even when he lies indicates he believes he speaks a truth! Clinton lied, Nixon lied, both the Bushes lived on lies, Hillary lies. Where do you see choosing truth here on these people and how is that you can write such an intelligent post and miss completely that the people you suggest we drift to are just as bad if not worse than Trump with one exception they all wear phony masks of decency! We all knew what Trump was and we do now! If there is one thing great about him it's that we don't really have surprises he is just the same as he always was! Brutally honest if anything to the point people think he is just some ass high on himself. I don't understand how you can call Trump a baboon and miss completely the sexual predator apes and underhanded liars sending us and our men off into needless conflicts that came before him or miss the divide Obama caused all by himself! Ferguson, MO. ring any bells with you? The changes already in place will be in place for decades due to Trump. 300 judges? Three nominations for peace prizes? Gee how could we support such a fiend?

[Deneon]

There is a huge difference about being honest about yourself, and being truthful in your statements.

You’re right when you say he doesn’t hide how he feels or what he thinks. Also you’re probably right that he believes everything he says is true. Thats is different from being truthful though. Just because he believes his lies are truth, doesn’t make it so. You say “even if he lies he thinks he’s telling the truth” like it’s an admirable quality. I don’t think it is.

Never have I mentioned Democrats, Biden, Obama, or that anyone else is a better choice. I specifically did not mention any of that, because that’s not what I’m curious about. I’m not from the US so I don’t have a horse in this race. It just surprises me how fiercely Trump is being defended sometimes. Most of the posts on here don’t talk about him the lesser of two evils, or the least bad choice, but they genuinely think he’s a good president. It’s something I find very difficult to grasp, and I think I’m usually pretty good looking at something from all sides.

Bill in this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?112845-Biden-Declared-Winner&p=1388864&viewfull=1#post1388864) said the following about the way we should conduct ourselves on this forum:




However, as always, we reserve the right to delete or edit any posts not for their factual content, but for the WAY they may be expressed.

That matters. Please be the change you want to see in the world.



I agree wholeheartedly. It matters how we express ourselves in this forum. And to me, it certainly matters how the head of state, who represents 330 million people (or should anyway), expresses himself. And in my view, he does not do that very well.

[Bill Ryan]

It matters how we express ourselves in this forum. And to me, it certainly matters how the head of state, who represents 330 million people (or should anyway), expresses himself. And in my view, he does not do that very well.Thanks. :sun: I saw you'd read my post here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?112845-Biden-Declared-Winner&p=1388864&viewfull=1#post1388864), and I'm pleased you did. I was sincere in what I wrote about our having a potentially interesting conversation over coffee. :coffee:

I agree about Trump's oratory. While every previous President has always had their speeches carefully written for them (of course!), Trump often does his own thing, and he's not always very good. I suspect (but I do not know) that he resists all professional public-speaking coaching.

Some of his speeches in his rallies have been energetic, articulate, focused and (in my purely personal view) inspiring, but I've often been facepalm-disappointed in some of his press conference statements, which have sometimes been unfocused, unemphatic, and rambling. In those instances, I could have done better myself, and so could you.

:)

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

But this man has never uttered a kind word out of his mouth, does everything he can to divide the american people, has demonstrably told lies everyday for the past 4 years and I doubt he loves anything or anyone but himself.

Thank you for the calm, measured post, but with respect, one cannot formulate an accurate hypothesis, of any kind, with incomplete data. Or I could say, with faulty data. Because that is what the media portray: a faulty, skewed, perception of things. Particularly when it comes to Trump.

You ask, what kind words has the man ever uttered? A reasonable question when no kind words are ever shown on television. One example.

_QUEwObOaVU


I won't even say he's sexist and racist, because that could lead to heated debates

With respect, but you did say it. I get it though. People say he's a racist, a sexist, a bigot and a bully. They say this endlessly, all day long without a moment's thought. Because that's what they've been told – spoon fed – by the fakestream media, for four years and more.

But where is the solid evidence of this – particularly racism, for which he is constantly charged, tried and convicted for?

https://twitter.com/DanScavino/status/1311438454799073280

45038

[ClearWater]

Hypothetically, if you knew that a person/people were despicable, hateful, evil lawbreakers who espoused the opposite of everything they believe and actually do, and if you saw them blatantly deceiving those you care about, would you talk about them respectfully? Would you treat them with the respect that others may interpret them as deserving, even when you know they are liars and imposters? Or would you call them out?

I'm not saying this is 100% the case with those Trump has talked poorly about, but I do think it's what he believes of them. If history were to prove beyond doubt that the people he speaks badly of are actually bad people, what would we think of him if he had treated them 'nicely'? Again, not saying this is the reality, just trying to offer another perspective for consideration.

[AriG]

I am going to say this as diplomatically as I can- actions speak louder than words.

In the current culture cancel climate wherein AOC is forming a McCarthy style coalition to dox anyone who supported Trump and deny them access to employment, it is my opinion that the focus should not be on lecturing the President, or members of this forum for their support of him or focusing on his style rather than what he has and will accomplish (primarily keeping us out of the great reset).

Regarding his “honesty”, it has been reported that there were numerous attempts on his life prior to his innaguration, the biased media has disavowed and censored him and the entire corrupt system has rigged the election. I’d be mad as hell if I were he and probably would understand that the only way to get attention would be through blatant speech and honesty. I’d much rather have that than this brain dead sock puppet Biden, who has already announced his intentions just this morning, to undo Trumps work against the NWO. But hey, he said he was going to screw us politely with a smile on his face!

[AutumnW]

Another Mod note from Bill:

We already have a thread, that's public and has always been open, titled Trump is NOT the answer (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?94907-Trump-is-NOT-the-answer).

I've moved a handful of posts from this thread (which is about Biden having been announced by the mainstream media as the victor) to that one, where criticism of Trump's policies and personality can be shared. We've had that thread available to all for 4 years.

However, as always, we reserve the right to delete or edit any posts not for their factual content, but for the WAY they may be expressed.

That matters. Please be the change you want to see in the world.

Here's an example of an admirable Trump-critical post that I copy here as a case study of a strong opinion that was expressed immaculately, and which I thanked. (I moved that post too, only because the Trump is NOT the answer (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?94907-Trump-is-NOT-the-answer) thread is a better home for it. Below is what Deneon wrote which I truly respect. Kudos to him. :highfive:

Tinman, you might a leaf from his book. I'd be really interested to share a coffee with Deneon to discuss his views. I think we'd have an interesting and intelligent conversation, and both might learn something from each other.

With yourself, I might decline the offer, because on the evidence you present about yourself (not Trump) the experience might not be courteous or pleasant.


Let me preface this that if there has been any voter fraud or irregularities, that should be brought to light. If that means Trump actually won, so be it.

Having said that, I really don't understand the support for Trump on this forum. He is about a spiritually aware as a pair of tweezers.

I would think that most people on this forum would choose love over hate, unity over division, kindness over anger and truth above lies. I can understand that you like some of what he and his administration have done over the past 4 years. You can agree or disagree with that. But this man has never uttered a kind word out of his mouth, does everything he can to divide the american people, has demonstrably told lies everyday for the past 4 years and I doubt he loves anything or anyone but himself. I won't even say he's sexist and racist, because that could lead to heated debates. But the 4 points I mentioned before I don't think are up for debate, right?

I understand he's an outsider, but does that mean he is a good president to lead the USA? You could put a baboon in office and the same thing can be said. Would that be a good idea? The end (ending the globalist elite control) does not justify the means (supporting this horrible, narcissistic bully). I don't believe he will actually make a dent in the global elite control, but even *if* you believe that.. Can you really look past this man's personality, and character? I can't, and I don't understand how so many people apparently can. Especially on a forum like this.

:focus:

Very nice post by Deneon. I don't know how calling Trump a baboon and horrible narcissistic bully and questioning how anyone could vote for him is more polite than Tinman's post though.

Disappearing comments to forum Siberia is particularly telling and indicates bias on your part, imho.

Do better, Bill. Please, just do better. You've lost the respect of many former members and you seem to be working on losing the respect of current members sitting in the shadows feeling too overwhelmed by the alt-right to post here.

[AutumnW]

I am going to say this as diplomatically as I can- actions speak louder than words.

In the current culture cancel climate wherein AOC is forming a McCarthy style coalition to dox anyone who supported Trump and deny them access to employment, it is my opinion that the focus should not be on lecturing the President, or members of this forum for their support of him or focusing on his style rather than what he has and will accomplish (primarily keeping us out of the great reset).

Regarding his “honesty”, it has been reported that there were numerous attempts on his life prior to his innaguration, the biased media has disavowed and censored him and the entire corrupt system has rigged the election. I’d be mad as hell if I were he and probably would understand that the only way to get attention would be through blatant speech and honesty. I’d much rather have that than this brain dead sock puppet Biden, who has already announced his intentions just this morning, to undo Trumps work against the NWO. But hey, he said he was going to screw us politely with a smile on his face!

In the current culture cancel climate wherein AOC is forming a McCarthy style coalition to dox anyone who supported Trump and deny them access to employment, it is my opinion that the focus should not be on lecturing the President, or members of this forum for their support of him or focusing on his style rather than what he has and will accomplish (primarily keeping us out of the great reset).

Factually incorrect. Please JUST STOP.

[AutumnW]

Hypothetically, if you knew that a person/people were despicable, hateful, evil lawbreakers who espoused the opposite of everything they believe and actually do, and if you saw them blatantly deceiving those you care about, would you talk about them respectfully? Would you treat them with the respect that others may interpret them as deserving, even when you know they are liars and imposters? Or would you call them out?

I'm not saying this is 100% the case with those Trump has talked poorly about, but I do think it's what he believes of them. If history were to prove beyond doubt that the people he speaks badly of are actually bad people, what would we think of him if he had treated them 'nicely'? Again, not saying this is the reality, just trying to offer another perspective for consideration.

When you talk about evil bad people that Trump is calling out, exactly who do you mean? Just a few examples will suffice. If this is a Qanon scripted remark, where Hillary is involved in pedophile rings etc...human sacrifice and yadayadayada, back it up. And I mean solidly -- back it up.

[AriG]

Autumn w

Just who in the hell do you think you are to not only tell me to stop but to disavow my comments as factually incorrect without supporting it. You exemplify everything that is currently wrong with MSM. I woo NOT stop - you are neither a censor or a fact checker. You can go elsewhere if you don’t like my comments that’s how freedom works!

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Google it. Autumn.

[AutumnW]

J. Christian Adams was a member of President Donald Trump's "election integrity commission."[12] It purported to "study the registration and voting processes used in Federal elections." According to the Guardian, the commission was "formed in response to the president’s unfounded claim that up to 5 [million] illegal votes were cast in the 2016 election."[12] At the announcement of said commission, Vice President Mike Pence promised that "this bipartisan group will perform a truly nonpartisan service to the American people.” The Washington Post characterized those remarks as "all well and good" until Pence introduced the co-chair of the commission, Kris Kobach. Which was, "a bit like a wolf standing up and giving a speech about how predators and prey will work together to establish peace on the prairie, and then introducing his vice chair, a bobcat." The commission was sharply criticized for Pence's characterization of the commission's lack of "preconceived notions or preordained results."[13]

When Trump appointed PLIF's J. Christian Adams to the commission, the Guardian noted his record as a litigant and activist against racial minority groups

https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Public_Interest_Legal_Foundation

[AutumnW]

Hey, where's Target to point out the one brown person in the PILF to render the above post meaningless? Come on Target, I know you're out there. :clapping:

[PurpleLama]

https://mobile.twitter.com/AOC/status/1324807776510595078


https://mobile.twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1325836769644982273

[AutumnW]

AriG, I asked you to stop posting factually incorrect information.

If it is your opinion that AOC is doing these things, or even someone else's opinion, make that clear. If it is your opinion that this is what will happen sometime in the future, make that clear as well.

It sure as heck isn't happening now and don't ask me for proof, because I can't prove a negative. The onus is on you to differentiate proven fact from your opinion.

And as I started this thread, I will leave of my own accord, if you don't mind.

[AutumnW]

Purple Llama,

Looks like AOC is saying those around Trump, the sycophants, will be deleting some of their pics and tweets, now that he is no longer in power. The use of the word, 'sycophants' indicates close association, not the general public and nowhere does it say, these people will be denied jobs in the future. Obviously, they won't be asked to work within the Democratic party. That's no surprise.

[AriG]

Autumn

It was reported on one news network and on fox. Look it up.

And it is with great pleasure that I leave a thread started by perhaps one of the rudest people I’ve encountered. You started a thread- if you want an echo chamber, turn to a co-worker at the troll farm and have your feathers stroked.

[safara]

I fully get that a change is needed, and someone "outside" of the establishment is required to Fight the Power.

I have just never understood why Trump was the person elected to do this.

The man to me has no decourum, and as such I feel has been hard for the rest of the world to take seriously in any way, regardless of the message.

I am not a US voter and have no say in the matter. If this was concerning the premier of a smaller country that had minimal sway on the rest of the world, then prolly no great shakes - however, the USA is the worlds largest imperial aggressor with military bases all over the world, so it does matter globally who is running that.

There must be something to him for people in the USA. A lot of people voted for him. Back then, and now. But surely there must have been someone with some gravitas. I just dont get that Trump was the best option.

[TargeT]

Hey, where's Target to point out the one brown person in the PILF to render the above post meaningless? Come on Target, I know you're out there. :clapping:

brown person? does that matter?

[Gracy]

Purple Llama,

Looks like AOC is saying those around Trump, the sycophants, will be deleting some of their pics and tweets, now that he is no longer in power. The use of the word, 'sycophants' indicates close association, not the general public and nowhere does it say, these people will be denied jobs in the future.

At first blush I also associated AOC's tweet with the Trump Accountability Project, but upon further inspection it does indeed look as if she's just telling people to get screen grabs before they possibly start disappearing.

I don't see, and can't find, any clear connection between the two.

[TargeT]

https://mobile.twitter.com/AOC/status/1324807776510595078



I am going to say this as diplomatically as I can- actions speak louder than words.

In the current culture cancel climate wherein AOC is forming a McCarthy style coalition to dox anyone who supported Trump and deny them access to employment, it is my opinion that the focus should not be on lecturing the President, or members of this forum for their support of him or focusing on his style rather than what he has and will accomplish (primarily keeping us out of the great reset).

Regarding his “honesty”, it has been reported that there were numerous attempts on his life prior to his innaguration, the biased media has disavowed and censored him and the entire corrupt system has rigged the election. I’d be mad as hell if I were he and probably would understand that the only way to get attention would be through blatant speech and honesty. I’d much rather have that than this brain dead sock puppet Biden, who has already announced his intentions just this morning, to undo Trumps work against the NWO. But hey, he said he was going to screw us politely with a smile on his face!

In the current culture cancel climate wherein AOC is forming a McCarthy style coalition to dox anyone who supported Trump and deny them access to employment, it is my opinion that the focus should not be on lecturing the President, or members of this forum for their support of him or focusing on his style rather than what he has and will accomplish (primarily keeping us out of the great reset).

Factually incorrect. Please JUST STOP.

it certainly seems to be the case,

or is 'creating lists' to "hold people accountable" not exactly that?

Don't they already have a website that plots the location of every RNC donator... basically Doxxing & threatening, there's no other reason for a geocoded list of political donors....

I am confused how this can be seen in any type of good light.

Also, is there comparable doxing by republicans of similar status?



When you talk about evil bad people that Trump is calling out, exactly who do you mean? Just a few examples will suffice. If this is a Qanon scripted remark, where Hillary is involved in pedophile rings etc...human sacrifice and yadayadayada, back it up. And I mean solidly -- back it up.

Hunter
Biden
LAPTOP

[AutumnW]

The U.S. is a pro-war two party duopoly whose manufacturing base is almost exclusively related to the military. Biden is almost as bad as Trump. But...and it's a big but, he will make peace with Iran. If you look at the situation that was being created in the Middle East, just prior to the election, Netanyahu and Jared Kushner formed non aggression pacts between Israel and countries surrounding Iran. This, after initiating sanctions to weaken Iran.

Why was Iran not included in these efforts? Because they were designed to bring on a huge conflagration against Iran. It's not so much what Trump has done, it is what he and Israeli radical government had plans for...in his second term. The Christo-fascists surrounding Trump didn't go all hell bent for leather in his first term because Trump wanted to be reelected and they needed four years to build up their weaponry.

You have no idea the bullet that has been dodged with a Biden victory. Sure, Biden will rattle sabres at Russia, and won't challenge the military industrial complex, but he is not in the pocket of the lunatic Christian element that cloaks itself in the glory of Christ in an age where run away conflicts have a chance of going nuclear.

This is my opinion. I have circumstantial evidence to back it and that is all.

[ClearWater]

Hypothetically, if you knew that a person/people were despicable, hateful, evil lawbreakers who espoused the opposite of everything they believe and actually do, and if you saw them blatantly deceiving those you care about, would you talk about them respectfully? Would you treat them with the respect that others may interpret them as deserving, even when you know they are liars and imposters? Or would you call them out?

I'm not saying this is 100% the case with those Trump has talked poorly about, but I do think it's what he believes of them. If history were to prove beyond doubt that the people he speaks badly of are actually bad people, what would we think of him if he had treated them 'nicely'? Again, not saying this is the reality, just trying to offer another perspective for consideration.

When you talk about evil bad people that Trump is calling out, exactly who do you mean? Just a few examples will suffice. If this is a Qanon scripted remark, where Hillary is involved in pedophile rings etc...human sacrifice and yadayadayada, back it up. And I mean solidly -- back it up.

It looks like the point of my post has been missed. I have not and will not accuse anyone of being evil or bad without being completely sure that they are.

I posed a hypothetical to point out the fact that our impressions of how any person speaks to any other person are dependent upon our perception of both persons. And further, that we very often don't really know how accurate our perceptions are.

[PurpleLama]

https://mobile.twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1325836769644982273

Added also to my post above, "not just what's best for the nation....but how any future employers...."

Y'all might not see what AOC is laying down, but Tapper sure does.

[AutumnW]

https://mobile.twitter.com/AOC/status/1324807776510595078



I am going to say this as diplomatically as I can- actions speak louder than words.

In the current culture cancel climate wherein AOC is forming a McCarthy style coalition to dox anyone who supported Trump and deny them access to employment, it is my opinion that the focus should not be on lecturing the President, or members of this forum for their support of him or focusing on his style rather than what he has and will accomplish (primarily keeping us out of the great reset).

Regarding his “honesty”, it has been reported that there were numerous attempts on his life prior to his innaguration, the biased media has disavowed and censored him and the entire corrupt system has rigged the election. I’d be mad as hell if I were he and probably would understand that the only way to get attention would be through blatant speech and honesty. I’d much rather have that than this brain dead sock puppet Biden, who has already announced his intentions just this morning, to undo Trumps work against the NWO. But hey, he said he was going to screw us politely with a smile on his face!

In the current culture cancel climate wherein AOC is forming a McCarthy style coalition to dox anyone who supported Trump and deny them access to employment, it is my opinion that the focus should not be on lecturing the President, or members of this forum for their support of him or focusing on his style rather than what he has and will accomplish (primarily keeping us out of the great reset).

Factually incorrect. Please JUST STOP.

it certainly seems to be the case,

or is 'creating lists' to "hold people accountable" not exactly that?

Don't they already have a website that plots the location of every RNC donator... basically Doxxing & threatening, there's no other reason for a geocoded list of political donors....

I am confused how this can be seen in any type of good light.

Also, is there comparable doxing by republicans of similar status?



When you talk about evil bad people that Trump is calling out, exactly who do you mean? Just a few examples will suffice. If this is a Qanon scripted remark, where Hillary is involved in pedophile rings etc...human sacrifice and yadayadayada, back it up. And I mean solidly -- back it up.

Hunter
Biden
LAPTOP

I don't trust Fox news, Target. And as far as Hunter Biden's laptop goes, I would just love to see Ivanka and Jared's laptops. Do I think Biden and his family are wonderful people? No. I am looking at it geo-politically and trying to figure out what the least worst result for the American people will be.

As I am Canadian, I am also interested in Biden's America first trade policy. It looks like the Dems have learned they have to support their original working class base. Big of them! They should never have left them in the first place, to become the elitist boneheads they became. As a Canadian, I hope it doesn't hurt us, trade wise. As we provide mainly raw materials, and Americans do the manufacturing, the relationship should be symbiotic.

Anyway, my opinions, for what they are worth.

[AutumnW]

https://mobile.twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1325836769644982273

Added also to my post above, "not just what's best for the nation....but how any future employers...."

Y'all might not see what AOC is laying down, but Tapper sure does.

Again, he is likely talking about those in Trump's immediate sphere. And yes, if they publicly encourage civil unrest during a transfer of power, future employers may not hire them. No surprise there.

[PurpleLama]

https://mobile.twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1325836769644982273

Added also to my post above, "not just what's best for the nation....but how any future employers...."

Y'all might not see what AOC is laying down, but Tapper sure does.

Again, he is likely talking about those in Trump's immediate sphere. And yes, if they publicly encourage civil unrest during a transfer of power, future employers may not hire them. No surprise there.

I disagree, sycophants can very much be the same as supporters in this context. It is ironic to see you invoke the spectre of civil unrest, as that encouragement has come solidly from the left, in the USA, this year. Historically, we have taken a very dim view of punishing people for their political stances in this country, and it shows mental sickness, in my opinion, that people hate Trump so much that they would wish such ill on his political supporters.

[AutumnW]

Hypothetically, if you knew that a person/people were despicable, hateful, evil lawbreakers who espoused the opposite of everything they believe and actually do, and if you saw them blatantly deceiving those you care about, would you talk about them respectfully? Would you treat them with the respect that others may interpret them as deserving, even when you know they are liars and imposters? Or would you call them out?

I'm not saying this is 100% the case with those Trump has talked poorly about, but I do think it's what he believes of them. If history were to prove beyond doubt that the people he speaks badly of are actually bad people, what would we think of him if he had treated them 'nicely'? Again, not saying this is the reality, just trying to offer another perspective for consideration.

When you talk about evil bad people that Trump is calling out, exactly who do you mean? Just a few examples will suffice. If this is a Qanon scripted remark, where Hillary is involved in pedophile rings etc...human sacrifice and yadayadayada, back it up. And I mean solidly -- back it up.

It looks like the point of my post has been missed. I have not and will not accuse anyone of being evil or bad without being completely sure that they are.

I posed a hypothetical to point out the fact that our impressions of how any person speaks to any other person are dependent upon our perception of both persons. And further, that we very often don't really know how accurate our perceptions are.

Sorry Clearwater, I misinterpreted you. And I do agree with your hypothetical argument. I don't think it applies to Trump but that is purely a matter of opinion. Peace:thumbsup:

[AutumnW]

https://mobile.twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1325836769644982273

Added also to my post above, "not just what's best for the nation....but how any future employers...."

Y'all might not see what AOC is laying down, but Tapper sure does.

Again, he is likely talking about those in Trump's immediate sphere. And yes, if they publicly encourage civil unrest during a transfer of power, future employers may not hire them. No surprise there.

I disagree, sycophants can very much be the same as supporters in this context. It is ironic to see you invoke the spectre of civil unrest, as that encouragement has come solidly from the left, in the USA, this year. Historically, we have taken a very dim view of punishing people for their political stances in this country, and it shows mental sickness, in my opinion, that people hate Trump so much that they would wish such ill on his political supporters.

Think about that for a little bit. If you were a politician hoping for as many votes as possible from both sides, would you make that kind of comment? Of course not. It makes no sense. A sycophant is someone within somebody's circle. Your interpretation only works if you consider Trump's base a kind of cult whose members are within his 'circle.'

Miriam Webster definition:

a servile self-seeking flatterer

Used in a sentence, Miriam Webster:

And swirling all around were coteries of agents, managers, execs, and moneymen; publicists and journalists, gawkers and sycophants.

[Gracy]

https://mobile.twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1325836769644982273

Added also to my post above, "not just what's best for the nation....but how any future employers...."

Y'all might not see what AOC is laying down, but Tapper sure does.

One of the people I watch every now and then on YouTube went down that road as well, stating something along the lines of "these people don't deserve to work any more", and I found it deeply disturbing that this idea is starting to gain traction. This is scary s##t!

However, I still don't see any clear connection between AOC's tweet and the Trump Accountability Project. Perhaps she is involved with it, and is just being coy, but I simply don't see her actually saying it.

Now also, to me anyway, Tapper is not threatening future employment the way the TAP is either. It rather looks to me that he's talking about right now, if people are tweeting about standing in the way of a peaceful transfer of power that future employers may well see it and frown upon that.

Not that I approve, but there again I think it's a stretch to infer that he's talking about being part of purposely ruining people's lives through cancel culture. Just like AOC's tweet I may be wrong, maybe he's just playing footsy with that lynch mob mentality as well, but until I actually see them saying it I'm not going to hang 'em high from the other direction.

[carnavas]

The U.S. is a pro-war two party duopoly whose manufacturing base is almost exclusively related to the military. Biden is almost as bad as Trump. But...and it's a big but, he will make peace with Iran. If you look at the situation that was being created in the Middle East, just prior to the election, Netanyahu and Jared Kushner formed non aggression pacts between Israel and countries surrounding Iran. This, after initiating sanctions to weaken Iran.


I’m an Iranian and Iran will never make peace with Biden.
Iran is stuck and can’t go back on his picture of an American opposing regime of 42 years and Biden can do nothing. They need a very big or out of context excuse like too many sanctions or just the simple fact that Trump is an exception within americas politics who we could maybe come to a personal peace deal with while still maintaining the opposition stance. With Trump there is hope for us but with Biden I am sure every thing will be as bad as it is for 4 more consecutive years. The more Trump is shunned and censored within America the more the possibility of Iran getting along with him in his second term because they won’t see him in the same group as recently previous presidents.

Oh and I should add that Trump is doing a sacrifice as he is going to implement more sanctions on Iran within the coming two months and Iran will be pressured to deal and if he doesn’t win the presidency all of it will be written on behalf of Biden as he will be the president at the time there comes a peace deal.

[AutumnW]

Autumn

It was reported on one news network and on fox. Look it up.
ye
And it is with great pleasure that I leave a thread started by perhaps one of the rudest people I’ve encountered. You started a thread- if you want an echo chamber, turn to a co-worker at the troll farm and have your feathers stroked.

Sorry you're leaving my 'echo chamber' thread. Goodbye

[AutumnW]

The U.S. is a pro-war two party duopoly whose manufacturing base is almost exclusively related to the military. Biden is almost as bad as Trump. But...and it's a big but, he will make peace with Iran. If you look at the situation that was being created in the Middle East, just prior to the election, Netanyahu and Jared Kushner formed non aggression pacts between Israel and countries surrounding Iran. This, after initiating sanctions to weaken Iran.


I’m an Iranian and Iran will never make peace with biden.
Iran is stuck and can’t go back on his picture of an American opposing regime of 42 years and biden can do nothing. They need a very big or out of context excuse like too many sanctions or just the simple fact that Trump is an exception within americas politics who we could maybe come to a personal peace deal with while still maintaining the opposition stance. With trump there is hope for us but with biden I am sure every thing will be as bad it is for 4 more consecutive years. The more Trump is shunned and censored within Amercia the more the possibility of Iran getting along with him in his second term because they won’t see him in the same group as recently previous presidents.

You weren't worried about war on you and your people, by a super power? Sure Iran needs change, but bombing them back to the Middle Ages isn't the way to go about it.

[AriG]

Just popped back in one final comment. LOL Autumn W is a Canadian. News flash- we don’t want foreign entities interfering in our election by posing on line as a legitimate source. If they (Canada) had their way, Biden would be elected and we would all be forced into A Trudeau style lockdown that not only includes mandatory lockdowns , but wearing masks while in blackface. $1600 fines for going to a park. Yep, that’s what we American patriots want. Canadians butting in to our affairs! I haven’t laughed this hard in a very long time. In the famous words of South Park @blame Canada” god help us.

[TargeT]

Biden is already signaling for extreme lockouts

CEXgq8S0bts

Biden actually seems worse now that he's saying he won



Autumn

It was reported on one news network and on fox. Look it up.
ye
And it is with great pleasure that I leave a thread started by perhaps one of the rudest people I’ve encountered. You started a thread- if you want an echo chamber, turn to a co-worker at the troll farm and have your feathers stroked.

Sorry you're leaving my 'echo chamber' thread. Goodbye
The echo seems a bit underwhelming

[AutumnW]

https://mobile.twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1325836769644982273

Added also to my post above, "not just what's best for the nation....but how any future employers...."

Y'all might not see what AOC is laying down, but Tapper sure does.

One of the people I watch every now and then on YouTube went down that road as well, stating something along the lines of "these people don't deserve to work any more", and I found it deeply disturbing that this idea is starting to gain traction. This is scary s##t!

However, I still don't see any clear connection between AOC's tweet and the Trump Accountability Project. Perhaps she is involved with it, and is just being coy, but I simply don't see her actually saying it.

Now also, to me anyway, Tapper is not threatening future employment the way the TAP is either. It rather looks to me that he's talking about right now, if people are tweeting about standing in the way of a peaceful transfer of power that future employers may well see it and frown upon that.

Not that I approve, but there again I think it's a stretch to infer that he's talking about being part of purposely ruining people's lives through cancel culture. Just like AOC's tweet I may be wrong, maybe he's just playing footsy with that lynch mob mentality as well, but until I actually see them saying it I'm not going to hang 'em high from the other direction.

I just read a blip from the pro-republican Washington Times about Trump loyalists being expunged from Washington. Am unclear what that means. Does it mean people in purely bureaucratic positions will lose their jobs, even if they have nothing to do with fomenting some kind of right wing coup? I find this highly unlikely. Anyone suggesting this be done has a screw loose, plus the idea, if carried out would set a dangerous precedent.

[carnavas]

You weren't worried about war on you and your people, by a super power? Sure Iran needs change, but bombing them back to the Middle Ages isn't the way to go about it.

Trump sure had some very bad advisor regarding Iran that led to some bad adversaries but he is no war monger while Obama was the one who brought war just behind our doors.

Just think about why the terrorist attacks went down across the whole globe in Trump’s term esp with Daesh. (And how suspicious that just before the elections they somehow pop out somewhere like Afghanistan and attacks in France)

[AutumnW]

Just popped back in one final comment. LOL Autumn W is a Canadian. News flash- we don’t want foreign entities interfering in our election by posing on line as a legitimate source. If they (Canada) had their way, Biden would be elected and we would all be forced into A Trudeau style lockdown that not only includes mandatory lockdowns , but wearing masks while in blackface. $1600 fines for going to a park. Yep, that’s what we American patriots want. Canadians butting in to our affairs! I haven’t laughed this hard in a very long time. In the famous words of South Park @blame Canada” god help us.

I have no desire to fight with you, Ari, so calm down.

Everything you have written above is either a gross exaggeration or completely incorrect. Trump is my president too, unfortunately. We are within the American sphere but we can't vote. At the same time, we have to follow the dictates of the president. If not, we will pay dearly.

We have no lockdowns currently. If cases explode we will have to do something like that, I suppose.

[AutumnW]

You weren't worried about war on you and your people, by a super power? Sure Iran needs change, but bombing them back to the Middle Ages isn't the way to go about it.

Trump sure had some very bad advisor regarding Iran that led to some bad adversaries but he is no war monger while Obama was the one who brought war just behind our doors.

Just think about why the terrorist attacks went down across the whole globe in Trump’s term esp with Daesh. (And how suspicious that just before the elections they somehow pop out somewhere like Afghanistan and attacks in France)

Carnavas, Imho, Trump is a war monger. He is clearly aligned with Israel's Netanyahu and appears to be doing his bidding. Sheldon Addelson bankrolled Trump's campaign.

Adelson’s warmongering pro-Israel views are no secret; he has even called for “an atomic weapon” to be fired at Iran. If a mega-donor connected to say, Big Pharma, broke with Trump, the Times would surely connect the dots. But somehow the Israel factor goes unreported.

https://mondoweiss.net/2020/08/trumps-quarrel-with-mega-donor-sheldon-adelson-could-be-good-news-for-mideast-peace/

Oh, I stand corrected. As it turns out, Adelson's refusal to give more to Trump's campaign, last summer, caused a breach. As such, Trump may not have bombed Iran after all. Big of him. He's really on moral high ground there!

My best wishes to you, Carnavas. I hope things improve in the Middle East soon.

[Bill Ryan]

Mod note from Bill:

I've just moved several posts from the Biden Declared Winner (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?112845-Biden-Declared-Winner) thread that I think more properly belong here.

What I would want to point out as another reminder, to avoid more unpleasant mudfighting, is that there's an easy way to ignore members who you might find irritating right now — whoever you are, and whatever your political values may be. Please see this thread:


How to "ignore" another member (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111465-How-to-ignore-another-member)

And copied below is the post I made there (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111465-How-to-ignore-another-member&p=1388478&viewfull=1#post1388478) a couple days ago. There are several interesting replies to that which follow, as well.

~~~
I'm drawing attention again to this thread because at a time when many people's emotions may be running a little high, some members are sure to be posting some things that may irk others.

The common factor is that many people are feeling a need to express themselves — whatever it is that they want to express. And that's 100% fine. It has to be.

So to avoid being irked by someone, it may well be easiest, kindest, and leave less mud on the walls NOT to get into firefights with anyone whose posts feel upsetting — but simply to ignore them.

This thread explains how to do that, and it's very very simple. The irksome people, whoever they may be for you, will just [almost!] vanish. Not from everyone else's view... but just from yours. :)


https://az705183.vo.msecnd.net/onlinesupportmedia/onlinesupport/media/skype/fa300xx/ninja_40x40_1.gif



:focus:

[AriG]

Just popped back in one final comment. LOL Autumn W is a Canadian. News flash- we don’t want foreign entities interfering in our election by posing on line as a legitimate source. If they (Canada) had their way, Biden would be elected and we would all be forced into A Trudeau style lockdown that not only includes mandatory lockdowns , but wearing masks while in blackface. $1600 fines for going to a park. Yep, that’s what we American patriots want. Canadians butting in to our affairs! I haven’t laughed this hard in a very long time. In the famous words of South Park @blame Canada” god help us.

I have no desire to fight with you, Ari, so calm down.

Everything you have written above is either a gross exaggeration or completely incorrect. Trump is my president too, unfortunately. We are within the American sphere but we can't vote. At the same time, we have to follow the dictates of the president. If not, we will pay dearly.

We have no lockdowns currently. If cases explode we will have to do something like that, I suppose.

Autumn,

You have told me to “stop” and “calm down” after I made a very rational post. That is incredibly condescending and unconstrutive. I think that you need to examine your agenda and the manner in which you treat people who contribute to “your thread”.

What you could have done is ask for clarification and links. What you did was say “just stop”. Now you chant “calm down”. I am not emotionally hijacked. I am amused and a bit insulted. I presumed that all of these great awakened ones here would have already heard the news about AOC’s witch hunt. Maybe I should not have presumed.

I also didn’t link as quite honestly? Most posts on this forum are way too heavy with links and lacking in personal insight. Just repeating. And a large number of posts aren’t post but rather a thesis. Not conversational at all. And, ironically, you are asking for concrete evidence in a site where gosh, 50% of the content cannot provide concrete evidence.

So I would suggest that if you don’t want a fight, don’t pick one by insulting posters with “just stop” and “calm down”. It’s lazy and condescending. And insulting!

And if Canada feels that it is being ruled by the US? I would recommend growing a backbone and establish yourselves as a sovereign nation, although no one there seems to understand that concept given your current head of state. Mother of a pedo and promoter of pedophelia. Just thoughts. Maybe you could use a PM a bit more like Trump ;)

[AriG]

Mod note from Bill:

I've just moved several posts from the Biden Declared Winner (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?112845-Biden-Declared-Winner) thread that I think more properly belong here.

What I would want to point out as another reminder, to avoid more unpleasant mudfighting, is that there's an easy way to ignore members who you might find irritating right now — whoever you are, and whatever your political values may be. Please see this thread:


How to "ignore" another member (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111465-How-to-ignore-another-member)

And copied below is the post I made there (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111465-How-to-ignore-another-member&p=1388478&viewfull=1#post1388478) a couple days ago. There are several interesting replies to that which follow, as well.

~~~
I'm drawing attention again to this thread because at a time when many people's emotions may be running a little high, some members are sure to be posting some things that may irk others.

The common factor is that many people are feeling a need to express themselves — whatever it is that they want to express. And that's 100% fine. It has to be.

So to avoid being irked by someone, it may well be easiest, kindest, and leave less mud on the walls NOT to get into firefights with anyone whose posts feel upsetting — but simply to ignore them.

This thread explains how to do that, and it's very very simple. The irksome people, whoever they may be for you, will just [almost!] vanish. Not from everyone else's view... but just from yours. :)


https://az705183.vo.msecnd.net/onlinesupportmedia/onlinesupport/media/skype/fa300xx/ninja_40x40_1.gif



:focus:



Bill, I have a lot of respect for you, but do you really want to be the Alternative Media version of YouTube? Discourse isn’t always pretty and sometimes, it is incredibly productive to be “irked”. Step out of the comfort zone and all.

I really do love you Bill, but in a world where voices and insights are sanitized or disappeared, I find this very disturbing coming from a truth seeker. Also very worried that your very valuable site might start to be perceived as a pressure release valve rather than the very informative source of alternative information that it is.

Pains me to even bring it up, but I have to

With much love and respect,

Ari

[PurpleLama]

https://mobile.twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1325836769644982273

Added also to my post above, "not just what's best for the nation....but how any future employers...."

Y'all might not see what AOC is laying down, but Tapper sure does.

One of the people I watch every now and then on YouTube went down that road as well, stating something along the lines of "these people don't deserve to work any more", and I found it deeply disturbing that this idea is starting to gain traction. This is scary s##t!

However, I still don't see any clear connection between AOC's tweet and the Trump Accountability Project. Perhaps she is involved with it, and is just being coy, but I simply don't see her actually saying it.

Now also, to me anyway, Tapper is not threatening future employment the way the TAP is either. It rather looks to me that he's talking about right now, if people are tweeting about standing in the way of a peaceful transfer of power that future employers may well see it and frown upon that.

Not that I approve, but there again I think it's a stretch to infer that he's talking about being part of purposely ruining people's lives through cancel culture. Just like AOC's tweet I may be wrong, maybe he's just playing footsy with that lynch mob mentality as well, but until I actually see them saying it I'm not going to hang 'em high from the other direction.

It might be that you are exactly correct, and I sincerely hope you are. But, at the same time, it is not too much of a stretch to see a pattern forming, and given the stakes I think it is worth being a little snake eyed.

The totalitarian tiptoe can go a lot of different ways, and I stand by the assertion that the hatred of Trump reaches the level of mental illness with so many who are unfortunately so programmed.

In all this I am not concerned for myself, as I am not much of a Trump supporter, and I am not concerned for him, as he got himself into this, but there are a lot of good and well meaning people who love him because they believe he is honestly trying to do the best (as he sees it) for this country and I worry what may come if a trend actually develops from the dots we are seeing laid out, ripe for connection.

And Autumn, I find it hard to believe that you have never seen the word sycophant used as a pejorative when describing a supporter of something you don't like. But, this is not the first time I thought you were being disengenuous, either.

[Bill Ryan]

Mod note from Bill:

I've just moved several posts from the Biden Declared Winner (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?112845-Biden-Declared-Winner) thread that I think more properly belong here.

What I would want to point out as another reminder, to avoid more unpleasant mudfighting, is that there's an easy way to ignore members who you might find irritating right now — whoever you are, and whatever your political values may be. Please see this thread:


How to "ignore" another member (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111465-How-to-ignore-another-member)

And copied below is the post I made there (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111465-How-to-ignore-another-member&p=1388478&viewfull=1#post1388478) a couple days ago. There are several interesting replies to that which follow, as well.

~~~
I'm drawing attention again to this thread because at a time when many people's emotions may be running a little high, some members are sure to be posting some things that may irk others.

The common factor is that many people are feeling a need to express themselves — whatever it is that they want to express. And that's 100% fine. It has to be.

So to avoid being irked by someone, it may well be easiest, kindest, and leave less mud on the walls NOT to get into firefights with anyone whose posts feel upsetting — but simply to ignore them.

This thread explains how to do that, and it's very very simple. The irksome people, whoever they may be for you, will just [almost!] vanish. Not from everyone else's view... but just from yours. :)


https://az705183.vo.msecnd.net/onlinesupportmedia/onlinesupport/media/skype/fa300xx/ninja_40x40_1.gif



:focus:




Bill, I have a lot of respect for you, but do you really want to be the Alternative Media version of YouTube? Discourse isn’t always pretty and sometimes, it is incredibly productive to be “irked”. Step out of the comfort zone and all.

I really do love you Bill, but in a world where voices and insights are sanitized or disappeared, I find this very disturbing coming from a truth seeker. Also very worried that your very valuable site might start to be perceived as a pressure release valve rather than the very informative source of alternative information that it is.

Pains me to even bring it up, but I have to

With much love and respect,

Ari
Ari, it's a member's own choice. Nothing we're imposing. YouTube autocratically silences voices whether one likes it or not.

It's all part of sovereign freedom to be able to walk out of a room and not listen to someone any more. We're just letting people know there's a door there.

(That's a VERY poor, imperfect analogy, but you may get the point!)

:heart:

[AriG]

Mod note from Bill:

I've just moved several posts from the Biden Declared Winner (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?112845-Biden-Declared-Winner) thread that I think more properly belong here.

What I would want to point out as another reminder, to avoid more unpleasant mudfighting, is that there's an easy way to ignore members who you might find irritating right now — whoever you are, and whatever your political values may be. Please see this thread:


How to "ignore" another member (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111465-How-to-ignore-another-member)

And copied below is the post I made there (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111465-How-to-ignore-another-member&p=1388478&viewfull=1#post1388478) a couple days ago. There are several interesting replies to that which follow, as well.

~~~
I'm drawing attention again to this thread because at a time when many people's emotions may be running a little high, some members are sure to be posting some things that may irk others.

The common factor is that many people are feeling a need to express themselves — whatever it is that they want to express. And that's 100% fine. It has to be.

So to avoid being irked by someone, it may well be easiest, kindest, and leave less mud on the walls NOT to get into firefights with anyone whose posts feel upsetting — but simply to ignore them.

This thread explains how to do that, and it's very very simple. The irksome people, whoever they may be for you, will just [almost!] vanish. Not from everyone else's view... but just from yours. :)


https://az705183.vo.msecnd.net/onlinesupportmedia/onlinesupport/media/skype/fa300xx/ninja_40x40_1.gif



:focus:




Bill, I have a lot of respect for you, but do you really want to be the Alternative Media version of YouTube? Discourse isn’t always pretty and sometimes, it is incredibly productive to be “irked”. Step out of the comfort zone and all.

I really do love you Bill, but in a world where voices and insights are sanitized or disappeared, I find this very disturbing coming from a truth seeker. Also very worried that your very valuable site might start to be perceived as a pressure release valve rather than the very informative source of alternative information that it is.

Pains me to even bring it up, but I have to

With much love and respect,

Ari
Ari, it's a member's own choice. Nothing we're imposing. YouTube autocratically silences voices whether one likes it or not.

It's all part of sovereign freedom to be able to walk out of a room and not listen to someone any more. We're just letting people know there's a door there.

(That's a VERY poor, imperfect analogy, but you may get the point!)

:heart:

Yes but, if members here are emotionally incapable of just not reading a post without a filter? They need to get off the computer and get some sunshine. Lol

[AutumnW]

Just popped back in one final comment. LOL Autumn W is a Canadian. News flash- we don’t want foreign entities interfering in our election by posing on line as a legitimate source. If they (Canada) had their way, Biden would be elected and we would all be forced into A Trudeau style lockdown that not only includes mandatory lockdowns , but wearing masks while in blackface. $1600 fines for going to a park. Yep, that’s what we American patriots want. Canadians butting in to our affairs! I haven’t laughed this hard in a very long time. In the famous words of South Park @blame Canada” god help us.

I have no desire to fight with you, Ari, so calm down.

Everything you have written above is either a gross exaggeration or completely incorrect. Trump is my president too, unfortunately. We are within the American sphere but we can't vote. At the same time, we have to follow the dictates of the president. If not, we will pay dearly.

We have no lockdowns currently. If cases explode we will have to do something like that, I suppose.

Autumn,

You have told me to “stop” and “calm down” after I made a very rational post. That is incredibly condescending and unconstrutive. I think that you need to examine your agenda and the manner in which you treat people who contribute to “your thread”.

What you could have done is ask for clarification and links. What you did was say “just stop”. Now you chant “calm down”. I am not emotionally hijacked. I am amused and a bit insulted. I presumed that all of these great awakened ones here would have already heard the news about AOC’s witch hunt. Maybe I should not have presumed.

I also didn’t link as quite honestly? Most posts on this forum are way too heavy with links and lacking in personal insight. Just repeating. And a large number of posts aren’t post but rather a thesis. Not conversational at all. And, ironically, you are asking for concrete evidence in a site where gosh, 50% of the content cannot provide concrete evidence.

So I would suggest that if you don’t want a fight, don’t pick one by insulting posters with “just stop” and “calm down”. It’s lazy and condescending. And insulting!

And if Canada feels that it is being ruled by the US? I would recommend growing a backbone and establish yourselves as a sovereign nation, although no one there seems to understand that concept given your current head of state. Mother of a pedo and promoter of pedophelia. Just thoughts. Maybe you could use a PM a bit more like Trump ;)

Ari, I suggest you reread Bill's post and put me on ignore. I had some confidence that you would be able to contain yourself but by the looks of your post above, the penchant for high drama over substance is clear. I am sorry if you felt insulted though. That was never my intent.

[AriG]

Just popped back in one final comment. LOL Autumn W is a Canadian. News flash- we don’t want foreign entities interfering in our election by posing on line as a legitimate source. If they (Canada) had their way, Biden would be elected and we would all be forced into A Trudeau style lockdown that not only includes mandatory lockdowns , but wearing masks while in blackface. $1600 fines for going to a park. Yep, that’s what we American patriots want. Canadians butting in to our affairs! I haven’t laughed this hard in a very long time. In the famous words of South Park @blame Canada” god help us.

I have no desire to fight with you, Ari, so calm down.

Everything you have written above is either a gross exaggeration or completely incorrect. Trump is my president too, unfortunately. We are within the American sphere but we can't vote. At the same time, we have to follow the dictates of the president. If not, we will pay dearly.

We have no lockdowns currently. If cases explode we will have to do something like that, I suppose.

Autumn,

You have told me to “stop” and “calm down” after I made a very rational post. That is incredibly condescending and unconstrutive. I think that you need to examine your agenda and the manner in which you treat people who contribute to “your thread”.

What you could have done is ask for clarification and links. What you did was say “just stop”. Now you chant “calm down”. I am not emotionally hijacked. I am amused and a bit insulted. I presumed that all of these great awakened ones here would have already heard the news about AOC’s witch hunt. Maybe I should not have presumed.

I also didn’t link as quite honestly? Most posts on this forum are way too heavy with links and lacking in personal insight. Just repeating. And a large number of posts aren’t post but rather a thesis. Not conversational at all. And, ironically, you are asking for concrete evidence in a site where gosh, 50% of the content cannot provide concrete evidence.

So I would suggest that if you don’t want a fight, don’t pick one by insulting posters with “just stop” and “calm down”. It’s lazy and condescending. And insulting!

And if Canada feels that it is being ruled by the US? I would recommend growing a backbone and establish yourselves as a sovereign nation, although no one there seems to understand that concept given your current head of state. Mother of a pedo and promoter of pedophelia. Just thoughts. Maybe you could use a PM a bit more like Trump ;)

Ari, I suggest you reread Bill's post and put me on ignore. I had some confidence that you would be able to contain yourself but by the looks of your post above, the penchant for high drama over substance is clear. I am sorry if you felt insulted though. That was never my intent.

Where exactly is the “substance” in “just stop” and “calm down” - you, dear autumn, are the one promoting high drama. I am perfectly self contained. Always have been (ok, there was tha one time ;))

I think that you don’t like being challenged. And you have no sense of irony and no sense of humor (ref. My Canada post).

The reality here is that you want to control the content of your thread. But funny enough? You cannot. That is the whole point of a forum. Dissenting voices are equal to authoritarian voices.

Keep going, attempt to belittle and discredit people with whom you disagree. George Orwell ( Eric Arthur Blair) would call you in from central casting.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Popcorn anyone ? 😂

[Savannah]

Mod note from Bill:

I've just moved several posts from the Biden Declared Winner (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?112845-Biden-Declared-Winner) thread that I think more properly belong here.

What I would want to point out as another reminder, to avoid more unpleasant mudfighting, is that there's an easy way to ignore members who you might find irritating right now — whoever you are, and whatever your political values may be. Please see this thread:


How to "ignore" another member (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111465-How-to-ignore-another-member)

And copied below is the post I made there (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111465-How-to-ignore-another-member&p=1388478&viewfull=1#post1388478) a couple days ago. There are several interesting replies to that which follow, as well.

~~~
I'm drawing attention again to this thread because at a time when many people's emotions may be running a little high, some members are sure to be posting some things that may irk others.

The common factor is that many people are feeling a need to express themselves — whatever it is that they want to express. And that's 100% fine. It has to be.

So to avoid being irked by someone, it may well be easiest, kindest, and leave less mud on the walls NOT to get into firefights with anyone whose posts feel upsetting — but simply to ignore them.

This thread explains how to do that, and it's very very simple. The irksome people, whoever they may be for you, will just [almost!] vanish. Not from everyone else's view... but just from yours. :)


https://az705183.vo.msecnd.net/onlinesupportmedia/onlinesupport/media/skype/fa300xx/ninja_40x40_1.gif



:focus:




Bill, I have a lot of respect for you, but do you really want to be the Alternative Media version of YouTube? Discourse isn’t always pretty and sometimes, it is incredibly productive to be “irked”. Step out of the comfort zone and all.

I really do love you Bill, but in a world where voices and insights are sanitized or disappeared, I find this very disturbing coming from a truth seeker. Also very worried that your very valuable site might start to be perceived as a pressure release valve rather than the very informative source of alternative information that it is.

Pains me to even bring it up, but I have to

With much love and respect,

Ari
Ari, it's a member's own choice. Nothing we're imposing. YouTube autocratically silences voices whether one likes it or not.

It's all part of sovereign freedom to be able to walk out of a room and not listen to someone any more. We're just letting people know there's a door there.

(That's a VERY poor, imperfect analogy, but you may get the point!)

:heart:

Actually I thought that was Brilliant. Thank you Bill, I'm walking out now :thumbsup:

[AutumnW]

https://mobile.twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1325836769644982273

Added also to my post above, "not just what's best for the nation....but how any future employers...."

Y'all might not see what AOC is laying down, but Tapper sure does.

One of the people I watch every now and then on YouTube went down that road as well, stating something along the lines of "these people don't deserve to work any more", and I found it deeply disturbing that this idea is starting to gain traction. This is scary s##t!

However, I still don't see any clear connection between AOC's tweet and the Trump Accountability Project. Perhaps she is involved with it, and is just being coy, but I simply don't see her actually saying it.

Now also, to me anyway, Tapper is not threatening future employment the way the TAP is either. It rather looks to me that he's talking about right now, if people are tweeting about standing in the way of a peaceful transfer of power that future employers may well see it and frown upon that.

Not that I approve, but there again I think it's a stretch to infer that he's talking about being part of purposely ruining people's lives through cancel culture. Just like AOC's tweet I may be wrong, maybe he's just playing footsy with that lynch mob mentality as well, but until I actually see them saying it I'm not going to hang 'em high from the other direction.

It might be that you are exactly correct, and I sincerely hope you are. But, at the same time, it is not too much of a stretch to see a pattern forming, and given the stakes I think it is worth being a little snake eyed.

The totalitarian tiptoe can go a lot of different ways, and I stand by the assertion that the hatred of Trump reaches the level of mental illness with so many who are unfortunately so programmed.

In all this I am not concerned for myself, as I am not much of a Trump supporter, and I am not concerned for him, as he got himself into this, but there are a lot of good and well meaning people who love him because they believe he is honestly trying to do the best (as he sees it) for this country and I worry what may come if a trend actually develops from the dots we are seeing laid out, ripe for connection.

And Autumn, I find it hard to believe that you have never seen the word sycophant used as a pejorative when describing a supporter of something you don't like. But, this is not the first time I thought you were being disengenuous, either.

Oh, now I am disengenuous too. As well as being condescending, disrespectful, belittling, a troll working on a farm, on and on and on. A little push back and people go insane -- and on a thread devoted to Trump not being the answer.
I have only ever seen the word sycophant used as I described and as the dictionary defines.

Are you expecting me to undermine my own understanding of the word and then go on to question someone else's intent, who appeared to be using it as it is defined?

That's rather convoluted. Maybe I don't get your point, if so, please try to word it another way.

[East Sun]

The election results are not over yet. Trump although not liked as a person because of
his obvious ego attitude may have been chosen for that reason among many other traits as the best
person to have the guts to destroy the criminal entities on the other side.

He'll go to court as he has to, to get fair play for what has to be done to save this USA. He's our only chance
and we need to stand by him as the US President. He has a hard task in front of him and no other person in the
USA could do a better job. He will take the criminals to court and imprison the ones who are a detriment to us at this time.

Actually he is our only hope.

[AriG]

The election results are not over yet. Trump although not liked as a person because of
his obvious ego attitude may have been chosen for that reason among many other traits as the best
person to have the guts to destroy the criminal entities on the other side.

He'll go to court as he has to, to get fair play for what has to be done to save this USA. He's our only chance
and we need to stand by him as the US President. He has a hard task in front of him and no other person in the
USA could do a better job. He will take the criminals to court and imprison the ones who are a detriment to us at this time.

Actually he is our only hope.

Amen! Brother/sister/non-binary Eieio 😘

[syrwong]

No one comes on stage in this system by surprise. The system managers know very well who will become important. Bill Gate did not become computer entrepreneur through hard working in a garage, nor did he venture aimlessly into vaccine business. This must be so for Trump. He was allowed to be the president. Allowed to be a billionaire in the first place, escaping bankruptcy a number of times. The billionaires are members of a club and you are not in it unless they nuture you. He is not the answer because even if he is, he has no successor. I believe the system only needs him for four years, then takes on a dive to somewhere.

[AriG]

No one comes on stage in this system by surprise. The system managers know very well who will become important. Bill Gate did not become computer entrepreneur through hard working in a garage, nor did he venture aimlessly into vaccine business. This must be so for Trump. He was allowed to be the president. Allowed to be a billionaire in the first place, escaping bankruptcy a number of times. The billionaires are members of a club and you are not in it unless they nuture you. He is not the answer because even if he is, he has no successor. I believe the system only needs him for four years, then takes on a dive to somewhere.

And what if he bucks the system as a white hat and thumbs his nose at the program? Donald Trump’s father made his fortune in a huge HUD project in Cincinnati, called Swifton Commons. Prior to that, they were irrelevant. Trump might have grown up as a quasi millionaire,!but the billions were of his own doing, and those billions are assets not liquid. Meaning, that they are tied to mortgages in REITS ( real estate investment trusts) Trumps liquidity is questionable. He was a CEO, with perhaps a million or two in annual compensation and options on privately held dividends. Trump is from a working family who had the advantage of being “outlyers@ ( right place/right time). What they were and are not is part of the matrix. Beneficiaries of the matrix , yes. Architects of the matrix? No.

[Gracy]

https://mobile.twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1325836769644982273

Added also to my post above, "not just what's best for the nation....but how any future employers...."

Y'all might not see what AOC is laying down, but Tapper sure does.

One of the people I watch every now and then on YouTube went down that road as well, stating something along the lines of "these people don't deserve to work any more", and I found it deeply disturbing that this idea is starting to gain traction. This is scary s##t!

However, I still don't see any clear connection between AOC's tweet and the Trump Accountability Project. Perhaps she is involved with it, and is just being coy, but I simply don't see her actually saying it.

Now also, to me anyway, Tapper is not threatening future employment the way the TAP is either. It rather looks to me that he's talking about right now, if people are tweeting about standing in the way of a peaceful transfer of power that future employers may well see it and frown upon that.

Not that I approve, but there again I think it's a stretch to infer that he's talking about being part of purposely ruining people's lives through cancel culture. Just like AOC's tweet I may be wrong, maybe he's just playing footsy with that lynch mob mentality as well, but until I actually see them saying it I'm not going to hang 'em high from the other direction.

It might be that you are exactly correct, and I sincerely hope you are. But, at the same time, it is not too much of a stretch to see a pattern forming, and given the stakes I think it is worth being a little snake eyed.

I sincerely hope I'm exactly correct as well, watching it with snake eyes right along with you. I full well understand the powder keg we're sitting on here in the States, and the last thing we need are lit matches.

A witch hunt would turn real ugly, real fast, with no winners... To followers of the establishment Left that just won, I would advise take the W, and go home. Call it a day while you still can.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Do better, Bill. Please, just do better. You've lost the respect of many former members and you seem to be working on losing the respect of current members sitting in the shadows feeling too overwhelmed by the alt-right to post here.

Precisely who are these "alt-right" people you talk of? You allege the same here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?110573-Look-Who-s-Coming-to-the-Rescue--Bill-Gates...&p=1352366&viewfull=1#post1352366), and here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?110757-Trump-administration-will-sign-order-temporarily-banning-ALL-immigration-to-the-US&p=1352373&viewfull=1#post1352373) for example. There are no such ones on this forum. They would be shown the door immediately. You tarnish the forum's name, and all of its posters, but using this insult.

It also demonstrates your lack of grasp if this is what you truly believe.

45057

I invoke Godwin's Law (https://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/godwin%27s+law), a close enough correlation here, which states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Hitler approaches 1" —​​that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Hitler.

At which point you lose by default.

I would say what you are really overwhelmed by is indoctrination. It has conjured a series of shadows and mirages that have shrouded your view of things. There's only one cure for that. Dig more, search more, think more.

[Patient]

Fyi; I beleive that our election was stolen from us as well - Trudeau was elected by using the same software that was used by Bidens' group.

So yeah, Canada and the U.S are close friends.

The goal of our enemy would be to have us all fighting amongst ourselves.

[Bill Ryan]

Precisely who are these "alt-right" people you talk of? Yes, the "alt-right" label is very misunderstood, misused, and even abused.

The forum members are almost uniformly libertarian or classic liberal — depending on the definitions.

They're:


Anti censorship
Anti authoritarian
Pro free speech
Anti political correctness and identity politics (such as espoused by SJWs)
Anti war
Anti NWO
Anti vaccines and big pharma (largely)
Pro environment
Pro All Lives Matter
Anti racism and prejudice of any kind
Pro personal freedom in almost every way.

The questions then are ONLY about how this translates into real-life politics. But it may be helpful to realize how fully the membership here is in fundamental agreement about a great many very important things.

:focus:

[Journeyman]

Fyi; I beleive that our election was stolen from us as well - Trudeau was elected by using the same software that was used by Bidens' group.

So yeah, Canada and the U.S are close friends.

The goal of our enemy would be to have us all fighting amongst ourselves.

Looking on from afar, it looks like conflict, division and chaos were the objectives of this election, regardless of who finally holds power. :(

[Bill Ryan]

Looking on from afar, it looks like conflict, division and chaos were the objectives of this election, regardless of who finally holds power. :(You may well be right. One of the many scenarios in this yet-to-be-finalized movie script is that the Deep State might "allow" Trump to have a second term, because I'd argue that's the election outcome that would most likely set off further chaos, widespread destruction, and domestic terrorism in the US.

(But that would still be best for the country. Those wounds can be healed in time. But a Biden presidency — or a Harris-Clinton one — would be deathly fatal to the US as we know it.)

[Forest Denizen]

Yes, the "alt-right" label is very misunderstood, misused, and even abused.

The forum members are almost uniformly libertarian or classic liberal — depending on the definitions.

They're:


Anti censorship
Anti authoritarian
Pro free speech
Anti political correctness and identity politics (such as espoused by SJWs)
Anti war
Anti NWO
Anti vaccines and big pharma (largely)
Pro environment
Pro All Lives Matter
Anti racism and prejudice of any kind
Pro personal freedom in almost every way.


The questions then are ONLY about how this translates into real-life politics. But it may be helpful to realize how fully the membership here is in fundamental agreement about a great many very important things.

:focus:

Bill, it’s nice to hear you state the above forum member attributes; however, you then go on to say, in response to Journeyman..





Looking on from afar, it looks like conflict, division and chaos were the objectives of this election, regardless of who finally holds power. :(You may well be right. One of the many scenarios in this yet-to-be-finalized movie script is that the Deep State might "allow" Trump to have a second term, because I'd argue that's the election outcome that would most likely set off further chaos, widespread destruction, and domestic terrorism in the US.

(But that would still be best for the country. Those wounds can be healed in time. But a Biden presidency — or a Harris-Clinton one — would be deathly fatal to the US as we know it.)

With the utmost respect, Bill, the problem with you doing this is that there are quite a few forum members who hold an opposing viewpoint. They feel that Trump has been devastating for the US in a number of ways and that the continuation of a Trump presidency would be deathly fatal to the US as we know it.

You have asked the Moderators to walk a fine line here and avoid taking a position in this political battle and yet you have done exactly that, in a thread entitled Trump is NOT the answer no less. Your opinion is of enormous import on this forum (your forum).

What has happened is a number of members have been cowed into silence by a very vocal group of Trump supporters, yourself included. I don’t know what the answer to this dilemma is but I felt I should point this out :flower:

[rgray222]

Looking on from afar, it looks like conflict, division and chaos were the objectives of this election, regardless of who finally holds power. :(You may well be right. One of the many scenarios in this yet-to-be-finalized movie script is that the Deep State might "allow" Trump to have a second term, because I'd argue that's the election outcome that would most likely set off further chaos, widespread destruction, and domestic terrorism in the US.

(But that would still be best for the country. Those wounds can be healed in time. But a Biden presidency — or a Harris-Clinton one — would be deathly fatal to the US as we know it.)

Yes, the conflict, division and chaos were intentional but it was all for the purpose of getting rid of Trump. This entire mechanism, big tech, mainstream media and key states with Biden governors and mayors were all in place since 2016. They fully intended to implement everything you are seeing today after the 2016 election. Hillary losing caught everyone off guard. Just prior to the 2016 election they started to believe their own polls. They literally did not believe that Hillary could lose. Proof of this was the Comey press conference giving Hillary legitimacy just prior to the election. They did not want to deal with Hillary's criminal behaviour after the election was over. Also, the reason they choose Comey to hold this press conference about Hillary is that most Americans would simply say the FBI already investigated, case closed. Comey should no more of held that press conference than the man in the moon. That is the function of the DOJ, FBI only investigates, DOJ prosecutes or finds innocence.

When you look at this current election objectionably there is no way that Trump lost the election. I honestly believe that he won the popular vote and the electoral college vote. (spare me the conspiracy and the sore loser talk it's my opinion). There was a true red wave moving through election night. Every state, every county was moving rapidly in Trump's direction. It was brought to a screeching halt and each day small increments of Biden votes showed up and hardly ever a Trump vote was found. Every single one of these states is run by Democrats with the exception of Georgia. All one hundred and fifty-nine counties in Georgia had reported election results and votes were counted with the exception of one county. Fulton County which is where Atlanta resides. Fulton Country has a strong Democrat machine in place (one of the strongest in the country) with enough votes to sway the election. In Pennsylvania, there was a block of 23,962 votes found after the election all for Biden, not one vote for Trump. This is an impossibility. Democrats have rationalized this away.

At this juncture barring a miracle, I think Biden has the election sewed up. It is just too hard to unravel the mess that was intentionally created to give cover to the cheating and theft.

If this is not investigated with a vengeance we will never see another businessperson in the White House. The system demands career politicians that will keep the wars going and play the game.

Hong Kong and the USA are fighting two entirely different wars but they are inextricably linked together, the outcome of the two conflicts will be indistinguishable. There is a long term plan playing out and it does not include and independent President of the USA or millions of independent people residing in Hong Kong. More later.

[AutumnW]

Bill,

Anti racist? The forum is full of anti-racists? I perused the forum for less than 5 minutes after replying to some posts. This is what pops up on a thread written by Ernie Nemeth.


It is the white races that are under siege, the majority, and we had better ready ourselves for the onslaught. And although it is the medical tyranny being rolled out in the country right now, making it seem as though it is not about race, watch who ends up in those interment camps, and who doesn't.

That's for starters. I could go down the rest of your list, I am sure and note all of the contradictions.

[TargeT]

With the utmost respect, Bill, the problem with you doing this is that there are quite a few forum members who hold an opposing viewpoint. They feel that Trump has been devastating for the US in a number of ways and that the continuation of a Trump presidency would be deathly fatal to the US as we know it.


This is an open debate, facts have been offered and there is a very clear conclusion; when this post started it was needed as we "didn't know".


we have 4 years of DATA that backs up Bill's conclusion (not opinion).



This statement alone should be easily and clearly backed up by data:

They feel that Trump has been devastating for the US in a number of ways

That is the point of this thread.

I haven't seen anything to back up that statement other than putting the emphasis on "feel"; and that's ok but it's not tracking reality very closely currently.


no one is cowed into silence, they are asked for the reasons behind particular stances, this is the place for those reasons; un backed statements are not overly helpful.



aka: build your case



Bill,

Anti racist? The forum is full of anti-racists? I perused the forum for less than 5 minutes after replying to some posts. This is what pops up on a thread written by Ernie Nemeth.


It is the white races that are under siege, the majority, and we had better ready ourselves for the onslaught. And although it is the medical tyranny being rolled out in the country right now, making it seem as though it is not about race, watch who ends up in those interment camps, and who doesn't.

That's for starters. I could go down the rest of your list, I am sure and note all of the contradictions.

So you are saying that Ernie's very real observation mean's he's racist?


That is a fact based observation, please tell us how it is incorrect and where you see the "racism" in it?



There is only one party that wants domestic conflict. Though both parties mirror each other when it comes to making war on brown people elsewhere, the Dems have largely tried to avoid or calm down conflict on home turf.

The republicans, through pouring gasoline on simmering fires, did so to service their desire for a police state. This is the real totalitarian tip toe that the alt right ignores. They have this fear of 'socialism' and 'communism' taking over, while ignoring the elephant in the room, encroaching hard fascism.

it doesn't seem that you are in touch with reality....

Almost all violence over the last 4 years has come from "left" orginizations, BLM, ANTIFA, LBGQT orgs...

I'm a bit astounded this is your view point, but the rest of your posts make a bit more sense in light of that.

[AutumnW]

Fyi; I beleive that our election was stolen from us as well - Trudeau was elected by using the same software that was used by Bidens' group.

So yeah, Canada and the U.S are close friends.

The goal of our enemy would be to have us all fighting amongst ourselves.

Looking on from afar, it looks like conflict, division and chaos were the objectives of this election, regardless of who finally holds power. :(

There is only one party that wants domestic conflict. Though both parties mirror each other when it comes to making war on brown people elsewhere, the Dems have largely tried to avoid or calm down conflict on home turf.

The republicans, through pouring gasoline on simmering fires, did so to service their desire for a police state. This is the real totalitarian tip toe that the alt right ignores. They have this fear of 'socialism' and 'communism' taking over, while ignoring the elephant in the room, encroaching hard fascism.

[Gwin Ru]

...

... if one is interested in finding out how machiavelically machiavelian the behind the scene is, please see this 1:24:12 long video: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?112361-The-Global-Financial-System-Explained-Kim-Goguen-LifeForce-the-Assemblies&p=1389253&viewfull=1#post1389253

[AutumnW]

(But that would still be best for the country. Those wounds can be healed in time. But a Biden presidency — or a Harris-Clinton one — would be deathly fatal to the US as we know it.)


With the utmost respect, Bill, the problem with you doing this is that there are quite a few forum members who hold an opposing viewpoint. They feel that Trump has been devastating for the US in a number of ways and that the continuation of a Trump presidency would be deathly fatal to the US as we know it.



This is an open debate, facts have been offered and there is a very clear conclusion; when this post started it was needed as we "didn't know".


we have 4 years of DATA that backs up Bill's conclusion (not opinion).



This statement alone should be easily and clearly backed up by data:

They feel that Trump has been devastating for the US in a number of ways

That is the point of this thread.

I haven't seen anything to back up that statement other than putting the emphasis on "feel"; and that's ok but it's not tracking reality very closely currently.


no one is cowed into silence, they are asked for the reasons behind particular stances, this is the place for those reasons; un backed statements are not overly helpful.



aka: build your case



Bill,

Anti racist? The forum is full of anti-racists? I perused the forum for less than 5 minutes after replying to some posts. This is what pops up on a thread written by Ernie Nemeth.


It is the white races that are under siege, the majority, and we had better ready ourselves for the onslaught. And although it is the medical tyranny being rolled out in the country right now, making it seem as though it is not about race, watch who ends up in those interment camps, and who doesn't.

That's for starters. I could go down the rest of your list, I am sure and note all of the contradictions.


So you are saying that Ernie's very real observation mean's he's racist?


That is a fact based observation, please tell us how it is incorrect and where you see the "racism" in it?

=====================================================

This isn't addressed to me but I will respond anyway. People are cowed into silence or have left in disgust. Able, intelligent and emotionally intelligent people. This "make your case," is beyond belief.

There are so many examples it is mind boggling. YOu, Target, who years ago stated there was no racism in the U.S. and then went on to insist other posters 'prove' that there is.

Trump's words and actions during the race riots, for one, betray his intent. He is a hard authoritarian. He trumpets at rallies, repeatedly that he has all the cops on his side.

Who does that? Seriously, what politician in their right mind would make a statement like that if they aren't trying to drive home the point that they have police backing, "so don't step out of line?" That's one example and it means something. It is 'felt' by those hearing it. And their 'feelings' are legitimate.

How do you think prey animals survive in the wild? Does a gazelle see a lion approaching and then proceed to work out logically whether they are in danger or not?

There is thinking, and then there is over thinking. Over thinkers are generally those whose emotions are not synchronized with their logic.

It takes both and there is an interplay between them that produces a symphony of appropriate reactions. Without the feeling part, you are basically wandering the musical landscape of life with a freaking kazoo.

[AutumnW]

With the utmost respect, Bill, the problem with you doing this is that there are quite a few forum members who hold an opposing viewpoint. They feel that Trump has been devastating for the US in a number of ways and that the continuation of a Trump presidency would be deathly fatal to the US as we know it.


This is an open debate, facts have been offered and there is a very clear conclusion; when this post started it was needed as we "didn't know".


we have 4 years of DATA that backs up Bill's conclusion (not opinion).



This statement alone should be easily and clearly backed up by data:

They feel that Trump has been devastating for the US in a number of ways

That is the point of this thread.

I haven't seen anything to back up that statement other than putting the emphasis on "feel"; and that's ok but it's not tracking reality very closely currently.


no one is cowed into silence, they are asked for the reasons behind particular stances, this is the place for those reasons; un backed statements are not overly helpful.



aka: build your case



Bill,

Anti racist? The forum is full of anti-racists? I perused the forum for less than 5 minutes after replying to some posts. This is what pops up on a thread written by Ernie Nemeth.


It is the white races that are under siege, the majority, and we had better ready ourselves for the onslaught. And although it is the medical tyranny being rolled out in the country right now, making it seem as though it is not about race, watch who ends up in those interment camps, and who doesn't.

That's for starters. I could go down the rest of your list, I am sure and note all of the contradictions.

So you are saying that Ernie's very real observation mean's he's racist?


That is a fact based observation, please tell us how it is incorrect and where you see the "racism" in it?



There is only one party that wants domestic conflict. Though both parties mirror each other when it comes to making war on brown people elsewhere, the Dems have largely tried to avoid or calm down conflict on home turf.

The republicans, through pouring gasoline on simmering fires, did so to service their desire for a police state. This is the real totalitarian tip toe that the alt right ignores. They have this fear of 'socialism' and 'communism' taking over, while ignoring the elephant in the room, encroaching hard fascism.

it doesn't seem that you are in touch with reality....

Almost all violence over the last 4 years has come from "left" orginizations, BLM, ANTIFA, LBGQT orgs...

I'm a bit astounded this is your view point, but the rest of your posts make a bit more sense in light of that.

I can turn this right back on you, Target. Build your case.

[TargeT]

This "make your case," is beyond belief.

What is the alternative? I thought in the contest of ideas we try to back our statements with data and not only do those participating in the discussion gain knowledge due to this, but so do the readers that are interested.

How do you propose this works?



There are so many examples it is mind boggling. YOu, Target, who years ago stated there was no racism in the U.S. and then went on to insist other posters 'prove' that there is.

I still think it is vastly over played and used to divide..., though I find it ironic to point out that the only actual system based racism from a legal standpoint is usually against those who are often claimed to be racists.. thats funny to me anywya.



Trump's words and actions during the race riots, for one, betray his intent. He is a hard authoritarian. He trumpets at rallies, repeatedly that he has all the cops on his side.

Should be easily proven, I have yet to see it and I've spent hours on this topic.

COPS are public servants and a symbol of society to the vast majority of society... your conclusion that him supporting people that literally put their lives on the line to help others is a threat doesn't make sense. It's a large voterbase as well, why can't he just be pandering for votes?? (which is more likely.....)


Does a gazelle see a lion approaching and then proceed to work out logically whether they are in danger or not?

So bigotry is ok?


[
I can turn this right back on you, Target. Build your case.

Which point would you like clarification on?

[AutumnW]

Target,

As much as I like Ernie, I think anyone making the statement that the white race is under siege, is likely a racist. Nobody should be gobsmacked with horror that most people would reach that conclusion. They may try to get around it using tortured logic, devoid of emotional intelligence and that would be their problem. It becomes MY problem when this line of thinking gains popularity and is expressed at the polls. Like I said before, the U.S. has dodged the hard fascist, racist bullet.

Prove me wrong. (See, again, two can play that game)

[TargeT]

Target,

I think anyone making the statement that the white race is under siege, is likely a racist.

I do not think that (see, no data makes it hard...) and I wonder at a person that is that judgmental.



Nobody should be gobsmacked with horror that most people would reach that conclusion.

That someone speculating about situations they have personal experience makes them racist? yes I am horrified by that conclusion.


Like I said before, the U.S. has dodged the hard fascist, racist bullet.

Prove me wrong. (See, again, two can play that game)

the election is not certified and trump will win

so what bullet did we dodge?

[AutumnW]

This "make your case," is beyond belief.

What is the alternative? I thought in the contest of ideas we try to back our statements with data and not only do those participating in the discussion gain knowledge due to this, but so do the readers that are interested.

How do you propose this works?



There are so many examples it is mind boggling. YOu, Target, who years ago stated there was no racism in the U.S. and then went on to insist other posters 'prove' that there is.

I still think it is vastly over played and used to divide..., though I find it ironic to point out that the only actual system based racism from a legal standpoint is usually against those who are often claimed to be racists.. thats funny to me anywya.



Trump's words and actions during the race riots, for one, betray his intent. He is a hard authoritarian. He trumpets at rallies, repeatedly that he has all the cops on his side.

Should be easily proven, I have yet to see it and I've spent hours on this topic.

COPS are public servants and a symbol of society to the vast majority of society... your conclusion that him supporting people that literally put their lives on the line to help others is a threat doesn't make sense. It's a large voterbase as well, why can't he just be pandering for votes?? (which is more likely.....)


Does a gazelle see a lion approaching and then proceed to work out logically whether they are in danger or not?

So bigotry is ok?


[
I can turn this right back on you, Target. Build your case.

Which point would you like clarification on?

"still think it is vastly over played and used to divide..., though I find it ironic to point out that the only actual system based racism from a legal standpoint is usually against those who are often claimed to be racists.. thats funny to me anywya."

System based racism against white people. Sure Target, whatever you say.

[T Smith]

In the current culture cancel climate wherein AOC is forming a McCarthy style coalition to dox anyone who supported Trump and deny them access to employment, it is my opinion that the focus should not be on lecturing the President, or members of this forum for their support of him or focusing on his style rather than what he has and will accomplish (primarily keeping us out of the great reset).



Factually incorrect. Please JUST STOP.

AriG's comments are not factually incorrect, Autumn. While AOC did not explicitly call for Trump supporters to be denied access to employment (perhaps that is what you are objecting to), her recent tweet calls for her followers to take down names. You can read it yourself here (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/aoc-donald-trump-2020-election-b1652462.html).

The tweet then inspired, and AOC herself reportedly posted a link (https://disrn.com/news/leftists-never-trumpers-compiling-lists-of-trump-supporters-in-trump-accountability-project) to, an anti-trump organization to do exactly what AriG describes. Read it through (https://www.trumpaccountability.net). I'm having difficulty reconciling how The Trump Accountability Project is not a McCarthy-style coalition.

[Lunesoleil]

1325548800270864389
REMINDER: Listen at 48 seconds to what Newt Gingrich says: "Trump is not part of the Club, he did not go through the Initiation Rites, he does not belong to the secret society!" This is why the Deep State hates it!

:cocktail: :cocktail:

[T Smith]

I fully get that a change is needed, and someone "outside" of the establishment is required to Fight the Power.

I have just never understood why Trump was the person elected to do this.

The man to me has no decourum, and as such I feel has been hard for the rest of the world to take seriously in any way, regardless of the message.



Hi safara, I will give you my opinion about this. And this is just an opinion. Our government is so corrupted and laden with organized crime--it has been dominated by Machiavellian actors willing to do anything to retain and expand their power, including murder, sex trafficking--and yes this corruption runs so deep it even characterizes demonic possession if one choses to look at this from a spiritual angle--someone challenging the system with promises to clean it up with "decorum" would simply get steamrolled and crushed. They wouldn't last one minute in the ring.

In other words, you can't fight the mob with preacher's manners.

I understand why many do not like Donald Trump. The irony is, the very traits so many despise are the very reasons many, many others do like him....

[Mike]

Target,

As much as I like Ernie, I think anyone making the statement that the white race is under siege, is likely a racist. Nobody should be gobsmacked with horror that most people would reach that conclusion. They may try to get around it using tortured logic, devoid of emotional intelligence and that would be their problem. It becomes MY problem when this line of thinking gains popularity and is expressed at the polls. Like I said before, the U.S. has dodged the hard fascist, racist bullet.

Prove me wrong. (See, again, two can play that game)



Hi Jess, Critical Race Theory is nothing but repackaged racism, directed at whites. It begins and ends with the premise that all white people are racist.:) I challenge you to arrive at a more racist statement than that.

It's a doctrine that's not just being taught to university students - my 10 year old niece is being taught this sh!t too. Corporate America/Big Tech is being indoctrinated as well, and the media is right behind them, supporting it all.

Critical Race Theory also states that if you disagree with it's premise, it's just further proof of your racism. Because to them, it's not a premise. It's the absolute truth. They are right, and you are wrong.

I can't think of anything more fascist and racist than that! Trump is actively trying to get CRT out of schools and gov entities.

This is very easy, straightforward logic. Not tortured in the least.

[AutumnW]

"Individuals who worked for the Trump for President campaign, Republican National Committee, and affiliated organinzations and contributed to undermining confidence in the American electoral process and the objectivity of fair journalism with baseless claims."

TSmith,

I don't see anything about taking down names. I do see that this organization's agenda is to disallow profiting from helping him get elected. It seems to be aimed at those close to the hard fascists though. In other words, those who were willing to throw the US under the bus, through propaganda and other means, shouldn't profit from it. These would be people like Rupert Murdoch, etc...

¤=[Post Update]=¤



Target,

As much as I like Ernie, I think anyone making the statement that the white race is under siege, is likely a racist. Nobody should be gobsmacked with horror that most people would reach that conclusion. They may try to get around it using tortured logic, devoid of emotional intelligence and that would be their problem. It becomes MY problem when this line of thinking gains popularity and is expressed at the polls. Like I said before, the U.S. has dodged the hard fascist, racist bullet.

Prove me wrong. (See, again, two can play that game)



Hi Jess, Critical Race Theory is nothing but repackaged racism, directed at whites. It begins and ends with the premise that all white people are racist.:) I challenge you to arrive at a more racist statement than that.

It's a doctrine that's not just being taught to university students - my 10 year old niece is being taught this sh!t too. Corporate America/Big Tech is being indoctrinated as well, and the media is right behind them, supporting it all.

Critical Race Theory also states that if you disagree with it's premise, it's just further proof of your racism. Because to them, it's not a premise. It's the absolute truth. They are right, and you are wrong.

I can't think of anything more fascist and racist than that! Trump is actively trying to get CRT out of schools and gov entities.

This is very easy, straightforward logic. Not tortured in the least.

Not talking about 'critical race theory.' I am talking about reality.

[AriG]

(But that would still be best for the country. Those wounds can be healed in time. But a Biden presidency — or a Harris-Clinton one — would be deathly fatal to the US as we know it.)


With the utmost respect, Bill, the problem with you doing this is that there are quite a few forum members who hold an opposing viewpoint. They feel that Trump has been devastating for the US in a number of ways and that the continuation of a Trump presidency would be deathly fatal to the US as we know it.



This is an open debate, facts have been offered and there is a very clear conclusion; when this post started it was needed as we "didn't know".


we have 4 years of DATA that backs up Bill's conclusion (not opinion).



This statement alone should be easily and clearly backed up by data:

They feel that Trump has been devastating for the US in a number of ways

That is the point of this thread.

I haven't seen anything to back up that statement other than putting the emphasis on "feel"; and that's ok but it's not tracking reality very closely currently.


no one is cowed into silence, they are asked for the reasons behind particular stances, this is the place for those reasons; un backed statements are not overly helpful.



aka: build your case



Bill,

Anti racist? The forum is full of anti-racists? I perused the forum for less than 5 minutes after replying to some posts. This is what pops up on a thread written by Ernie Nemeth.


It is the white races that are under siege, the majority, and we had better ready ourselves for the onslaught. And although it is the medical tyranny being rolled out in the country right now, making it seem as though it is not about race, watch who ends up in those interment camps, and who doesn't.

That's for starters. I could go down the rest of your list, I am sure and note all of the contradictions.


So you are saying that Ernie's very real observation mean's he's racist?


That is a fact based observation, please tell us how it is incorrect and where you see the "racism" in it?

=====================================================

This isn't addressed to me but I will respond anyway. People are cowed into silence or have left in disgust. Able, intelligent and emotionally intelligent people. This "make your case," is beyond belief.

There are so many examples it is mind boggling. YOu, Target, who years ago stated there was no racism in the U.S. and then went on to insist other posters 'prove' that there is.

Trump's words and actions during the race riots, for one, betray his intent. He is a hard authoritarian. He trumpets at rallies, repeatedly that he has all the cops on his side.

Who does that? Seriously, what politician in their right mind would make a statement like that if they aren't trying to drive home the point that they have police backing, "so don't step out of line?" That's one example and it means something. It is 'felt' by those hearing it. And their 'feelings' are legitimate.

How do you think prey animals survive in the wild? Does a gazelle see a lion approaching and then proceed to work out logically whether they are in danger or not?

There is thinking, and then there is over thinking. Over thinkers are generally those whose emotions are not synchronized with their logic.

It takes both and there is an interplay between them that produces a symphony of appropriate reactions. Without the feeling part, you are basically wandering the musical landscape of life with a freaking kazoo.

I apologize for not highlighting just the relevant portion of this post, but I am usually replying from my phone. oooot and aboot as they say.

This is in response to the criticism of Ernie”s observation about white races in the crosshairs. A real world example:

My hisband worked for a very large technology company. He had over 300 people on his team. A decision was made that a black manager would need to be released from employ. Non performance after a generous progressive disciplinary process that lasted months, leaving little doubt with that manager that their future with the company was in serious jeopardy.

As part of the separation process, Department Heads, HR and legal would consult to ensure that they had violated no laws and had accumulated a sufficient paper trail to support the decision. In the meeting regarding the black manager, my hisband was asked by the head of legal, to “find a white guy to terminate as well, as insurance”. Of course, husband refused and took it to the COO.

As it would appear that very large corporations are so fearful of the race card, that they are willing to cherry pick someone based upon their white race, malign and terminate them to cover their asses. Now that isn’t just racism, it’s institutional racism and it is being directed toward the “ white guy” every day in corporations worldwide.

Another example is the application of what used to be called “affirmative action” being used as a tool for employment, college admissions, etc, essentially handicapping the scores of minority applicants. Skill set not relevant.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

If anyone is feeling a need for some humor and a break from all the stress, check out this site and by all means, watch the embedded video 😂

https://thetrumpybear.com/

[Ernie Nemeth]

The idea that there is 'systemic racism' is a racist statement. What there is is 'systemic minorityism'. That is because we live in a democracy where the majority 50% + 1 rule the minority. That is what has been turned into systemic racism. And since the majority is white, of many sub-races however, systemic racism was invented to explain it.

But no, there is no systemic racism, but there is indeed systemic minorityism.

But if all minorities group themselves under the banner of POC, they would as a coalition attain majority far faster than as separate minorities. This is the liberal realization that galvanized the new reforming a few years back now. That is what I am talking about. My racism is well in check, thanks. (and with the greatest respect for Autumn's opinion, regardless of intent)

[AutumnW]

AriG, That never should have happened to your husband. It's not only unfair, it's stupid. Unfortunately blowback from real racism can take some bizarre forms and your husband and his company seems to have been victims of it.

It would be lovely if sanity would prevail.

[AutumnW]

The idea that there is 'systemic racism' is a racist statement. What there is is 'systemic minorityism'. That is because we live in a democracy where the majority 50% + 1 rule the minority. That is what has been turned into systemic racism. And since the majority is white, of many sub-races however, systemic racism was invented to explain it.

But no, there is no systemic racism, but there is indeed systemic minorityism.

But if all minorities group themselves under the banner of POC, they would as a coalition attain majority far faster than as separate minorities. This is the liberal realization that galvanized the new reforming a few years back now. That is what I am talking about. My racism is well in check, thanks. (and with the greatest respect for Autumn's opinion, regardless of intent)

See my comments above, ERnie. Just because there are bizarre blowback reactions misapplied and strange doesn't obliterate the reality that real racism exists. And Canada is particularly racist, imho. That's why we have had such a crackdown on hate speech written into law. Government is trying to deal with a white population that is, imho, more racist than white Americans.Our generation, not so bad, but parent's generation...OMG

See below.

"Speaking in her Atikamekw language Echaquan asked for someone online to help and to “come see me”. According to family members, Echaquan said she was over medicated and had been administered morphine, despite being allergic to it. In the seven-minute video, Echaquan can be seen writhing and shouting as a nurse and healthcare aide are heard telling her, in French, that she was “stupid as hell” and would be “better off dead”.

https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2020/10/5/it-was-sheer-hatred-indigenous-peoples-react-to-echaquan-death

[Mike]

"Individuals who worked for the Trump for President campaign, Republican National Committee, and affiliated organinzations and contributed to undermining confidence in the American electoral process and the objectivity of fair journalism with baseless claims."

TSmith,

I don't see anything about taking down names. I do see that this organization's agenda is to disallow profiting from helping him get elected. It seems to be aimed at those close to the hard fascists though. In other words, those who were willing to throw the US under the bus, through propaganda and other means, shouldn't profit from it. These would be people like Rupert Murdoch, etc...

¤=[Post Update]=¤



Target,

As much as I like Ernie, I think anyone making the statement that the white race is under siege, is likely a racist. Nobody should be gobsmacked with horror that most people would reach that conclusion. They may try to get around it using tortured logic, devoid of emotional intelligence and that would be their problem. It becomes MY problem when this line of thinking gains popularity and is expressed at the polls. Like I said before, the U.S. has dodged the hard fascist, racist bullet.

Prove me wrong. (See, again, two can play that game)



Hi Jess, Critical Race Theory is nothing but repackaged racism, directed at whites. It begins and ends with the premise that all white people are racist.:) I challenge you to arrive at a more racist statement than that.

It's a doctrine that's not just being taught to university students - my 10 year old niece is being taught this sh!t too. Corporate America/Big Tech is being indoctrinated as well, and the media is right behind them, supporting it all.

Critical Race Theory also states that if you disagree with it's premise, it's just further proof of your racism. Because to them, it's not a premise. It's the absolute truth. They are right, and you are wrong.

I can't think of anything more fascist and racist than that! Trump is actively trying to get CRT out of schools and gov entities.

This is very easy, straightforward logic. Not tortured in the least.

Not talking about 'critical race theory.' I am talking about reality.


You are denying reality.

Point is, CRT is now the foundational reality for our kids, university students, professors, corporate america, government, and our media. What's left?

They're all being taught the same thing - whites are bad, evil, racist people. So yeah , Ernie is right.

[AutumnW]

CRT is a smokescreen and a wedge social issue. Who benefits from pushing it? Is it helping Democrats. Nope. They lose votes over it. Is it possible it has become a 'false flag?' beginning say, 5 o r 6 years ago? Not saying I believe this, but it does make me wonder. That totalitarian tip toe coming from the left that you fear, might have been given a big boost from the right. They have all bases covered. Think they're dummies, behind the scenes?

[Gracy]

CRT is a smokescreen and a wedge social issue. Who benefits from pushing it? Is it helping Democrats. Nope. They lose votes over it. Is it possible it has become a 'false flag?' beginning say, 5 o r 6 years ago? Not saying I believe this, but it does make me wonder. That totalitarian tip toe coming from the left that you fear, might have been given a big boost from the right. They have all bases covered. Think they're dummies, behind the scenes?

Okay AutumnW, I don't see how you can implicate the Right in any of this, at all, in the slightest. The Right has plenty to answer for such as neoconservatism for instance, but Critical Race Theory? Whew... I'm afraid that falls squarely on the faction of America's Left that I utterly detest with every fiber of my being. I reckon the only argument I have with those sounding the alarm bells on it, is a matter of how deeply that poison has permeated American society.

I happen to see this as that it's very close to reaching it's ceiling so to speak, and will soon enough join the ever growing graveyard of terrible ideas, but that's for a different conversation.

[Mike]

CRT is a smokescreen and a wedge social issue. Who benefits from pushing it? Is it helping Democrats. Nope. They lose votes over it. Is it possible it has become a 'false flag?' beginning say, 5 o r 6 years ago? Not saying I believe this, but it does make me wonder. That totalitarian tip toe coming from the left that you fear, might have been given a big boost from the right. They have all bases covered. Think they're dummies, behind the scenes?



Ive said over and over again here that recent events have a lot less to do with racism than most of us think. So in that sense I agree with you that CRT is a smokescreen. But, except for a very small number of people, the ones teaching and learning it truly believe in it. And it is immensely harmful. It's like a cultural cancer.

These highly polarizing social issues that we're dealing with in America (and across the world) are perfect vehicles to usher in Marxism. Race issues, gender issues, trans issues...they all seek to weaponize our compassion. They use a murky vocabulary designed to deceive. "Equity" is one such word.. It means forced outcomes. It means Marxism.

I would guess that 95% of people here in the states do not know that. They just hear the word "equality" or "equity", and immediately jump on board. And if you oppose it? Well you must be racist then!

When you have Marxism hiding in the comfy confines of polarizing social issues, it is very difficult to criticize it, for the reason i just laid out...you will labeled a racist, a transphobe, a misogynist. And therein lies it's genius.

It won't allow us to make very basic observations without emotional accusations involving one or 3 of the things i just mentioned (racism, transphobia, misogyny). Your exchange with Target, regarding Ernie, illustrated this pretty well. Whether a smokesceen or not in the grand scheme of things, CRT has and is continuing to create a very anti-white ethos. As the years go on it will only get worse. It will be just as bad for blacks as it will be for whites. But, however you cut it, it has put white folks under siege. That seems quite clear to me. But uttering it invites all sorts of unfair accusations

[AriG]

Notes on critical race theory. I have personally experienced this phenomenon from both sides, having lived on or near the Mason Dixon line most of my life.

Racism is real. I can attest. I am a while woman in my fifties. I have on a number of occasions had social and or transactional interactions with other white people who “make assumptions” about where I may or may not stand regarding race. I have had merchants bemoan how the blacks have changed the landscape and brought in crime. Mind you, said merchants had just met me and would have no idea as to my familial or social relationships. Disgusting.

I have also been subjected to reverse racism. In 2007/2008, we were recruited to be therapeutic foster parents for severely abused/neglected children. Our first family group consisted of an African American sibling group of three. Ages 5, 3 and 18 months. These children (all from different fathers) had witnessed their mothers new man murder the eldest sibling (7 years) because he failed a math quiz. It took us months of coaching and support of these babies to get them to sleep through the night. Want to know why they sent the entire group back to father #2 even though two of them were not related and even though father #2 was a convicted felon? It was because I didn’t do a good enough job styling black hair and because the five year old had gained weight and could fit into her four year wardrobe any longer. Mind you, a wardrobe that I had replaced. But I bought Levi’s and not something called “apple bottoms”.

The second family group was two boys aged 4 and 18 months. Both failure to thrive. Due to u discovered food allergies that I uncovered. Their mother was schizophrenic and no fathers in the picture. We fixed them with love nutrition, and education. But, whenever we would take them out in public? African American adults would verbally assault us for having them with us.

So it goes both ways. Wrongs don’t make rights. This must stop on both sides, immediately. How can we make that happen?

And, btw? This all occurred during the Obama/Biden administration yep. Shows to go ya, race is irrelevant. Let’s get over it. Trump is not a racist. He has a lot of flaws but racism is t one.

[PurpleLama]

I happen to see this as that it's very close to reaching it's ceiling so to speak, and will soon enough join the ever growing graveyard of terrible ideas, but that's for a different conversation.

Once again, I really hope you are right. But this thing has been festering in the background for decades, and is just starting to break out into the mainstream. I am not a pessimist by nature, but I am indeed afraid that this movement is just getting started.

To bring it back to topic, with DJT in office we might have a chance, but under Biden the critical theorists will feel they have a mandate. We finally repudiated all the backward racist Trump sycophants, so lets proceed to the compulsory anti-racist or whatever conditioning we think you need this week to keep your social credit score high enough to post online, take a bus to the store, have a job.

Lord have mercy, I hope you are right.

[T Smith]

TSmith,

I don't see anything about taking down names.



Then who are all these people/names? (https://projects.propublica.org/trump-town/staffers/category/sge?page=1). These are staffers, department heads, consultants, Trump Administration mid-to-low level employees, etc., no? This looks like a doxxing list to me.




I do see that this organization's agenda is to disallow profiting from helping him get elected.



I suppose you could argue the verbiage and meaning of "profiting from" is vague, but I infer this to mean those connected to/associated with the Trump Administration need be purged from future employment opportunities in government/D.C. And even if we give the intent of this project the benefit of the doubt, its Bolshevik-style list is pretty creepy.... I sure wouldn't want to be on one.

[AutumnW]

CRT is a smokescreen and a wedge social issue. Who benefits from pushing it? Is it helping Democrats. Nope. They lose votes over it. Is it possible it has become a 'false flag?' beginning say, 5 o r 6 years ago? Not saying I believe this, but it does make me wonder. That totalitarian tip toe coming from the left that you fear, might have been given a big boost from the right. They have all bases covered. Think they're dummies, behind the scenes?

Okay AutumnW, I don't see how you can implicate the Right in any of this, at all, in the slightest. The Right has plenty to answer for such as neoconservatism for instance, but Critical Race Theory? Whew... I'm afraid that falls squarely on the faction of America's Left that I utterly detest with every fiber of my being. I reckon the only argument I have with those sounding the alarm bells on it, is a matter of how deeply that poison has permeated American society.

I happen to see this as that it's very close to reaching it's ceiling so to speak, and will soon enough join the ever growing graveyard of terrible ideas, but that's for a different conversation.

I don't think you get that I am not saying I believe this but that it is plausible. I clearly qualified that.

It is possible that CRT, which is highly divisive and has come to be associated with the moderate left, was receiving funding from a segment of society that knew exactly how corrosive it could be? I don't know much about CRT, but what I have read sounds completely ludicrous. Could it have been given some help from those who wanted to have all 'liberals' tarred with the same brush?

Sure. It's possible. Why not? I don't for a minute think that all these shrill, earnest nutcases in academia are in on some kind of plot, but its amazing how much traction stupid ideas get if they have a LOT of money behind them from foundations etc...Read the 'Cultural Cold War'

Back in the day Ralph Nader, a far left guy received campaign financing from republicans...to split the dem's vote. Not a direct parallel but close enough.

Am I blaming the right for the weird left? No. I am saying the hard fascists have plans that go back decades and they might be boosting CRT for the backlash.

I mean, you do understand how deep cover works, right?

[AutumnW]

TSmith,

I don't see anything about taking down names.



Then who are all these people/names? (https://projects.propublica.org/trump-town/staffers/category/sge?page=1). These are staffers, department heads, consultants, Trump Administration mid-to-low level employees, etc., no? This looks like a doxxing list to me.




I do see that this organization's agenda is to disallow profiting from helping him get elected.



I suppose you could argue the verbiage and meaning of "profiting from" is vague, but I infer this to mean those connected to/associated with the Trump Administration need be purged from future employment opportunities in government/D.C. And even if we give the intent of this project the benefit of the doubt, its Bolshevik-style list is pretty creepy.... I sure wouldn't want to be on one.

I see a list of senior government appointees on a Columbia Journalism Review page. It seems to be politically neutral and doesn't include addresses or other private information. Am I missing something?

[AutumnW]

CRT is a smokescreen and a wedge social issue. Who benefits from pushing it? Is it helping Democrats. Nope. They lose votes over it. Is it possible it has become a 'false flag?' beginning say, 5 o r 6 years ago? Not saying I believe this, but it does make me wonder. That totalitarian tip toe coming from the left that you fear, might have been given a big boost from the right. They have all bases covered. Think they're dummies, behind the scenes?



Ive said over and over again here that recent events have a lot less to do with racism than most of us think. So in that sense I agree with you that CRT is a smokescreen. But, except for a very small number of people, the ones teaching and learning it truly believe in it. And it is immensely harmful. It's like a cultural cancer.

These highly polarizing social issues that we're dealing with in America (and across the world) are perfect vehicles to usher in Marxism. Race issues, gender issues, trans issues...they all seek to weaponize our compassion. They use a murky vocabulary designed to deceive. "Equity" is one such word.. It means forced outcomes. It means Marxism.

I would guess that 95% of people here in the states do not know that. They just hear the word "equality" or "equity", and immediately jump on board. And if you oppose it? Well you must be racist then!

When you have Marxism hiding in the comfy confines of polarizing social issues, it is very difficult to criticize it, for the reason i just laid out...you will labeled a racist, a transphobe, a misogynist. And therein lies it's genius.

It won't allow us to make very basic observations without emotional accusations involving one or 3 of the things i just mentioned (racism, transphobia, misogyny). Your exchange with Target, regarding Ernie, illustrated this pretty well. Whether a smokesceen or not in the grand scheme of things, CRT has and is continuing to create a very anti-white ethos. As the years go on it will only get worse. It will be just as bad for blacks as it will be for whites. But, however you cut it, it has put white folks under siege. That seems quite clear to me. But uttering it invites all sorts of unfair accusations


Hey Mike, Hold on there. I agree with you. I am just asking you to take a step back, breathe and mentally peel back a couple layers of the onion. The backlash it is getting is well deserved. The backlash may be supporting the real goals of actual hard core racists and extreme fascism. And that is putting it mildly. That's a maybe but worth thinking about, imho.

Ludicrous, is Canadians being hyper aware of race through CRT, the media etc...while real ugly racism, life ending and life threatening racism is ignored or blown off--because it is unseen. It happens to the vulnerable who are out of sight and out of mind.

[Gracy]

Am I blaming the right for the weird left? No. I am saying the hard fascists have plans that go back decades and they might be boosting CRT for the backlash.

I mean, you do understand how deep cover works, right?

Sure, I get it, I just don't see any more evidence for that, than I see in this supposed widespread voter fraud. I'm not from Missouri, but I do have a deep appreciation for the "show me" sentiment.

[Deborah (ahamkara)]

I enjoy the healthy debate of ideas, but I would like to point out that the overconfident use of the term “racist” is dangerous, divisive, and inflammatory.. .

Someone can make what you “feel” to be a stupid statement without being stupid. One can make a joke about women in what you might “feel” to be in poor taste and not be a sexist. To call someone a derogatory term without really knowing or understanding that person’s true feelings and actions creates a great deal of friction and bad feeling. I don’t see the point. If a person is actually a racist, it would be far more constructive to provide evidence that supports a counter argument.

[AutumnW]

The Cultural Cold War---by Frances Saunders

“Frances Stonor Saunders has almost single-handedly started off a branch of sub-history: the cultural cold war. . . . An extraordinarily good book, and I recommend it to anyone.” —Ian McEwan

During the Cold War, freedom of expression was vaunted as liberal democracy’s most cherished possession—but such freedom was put in service of a hidden agenda. In The Cultural Cold War, Frances Stonor Saunders reveals the extraordinary efforts of a secret campaign in which some of the most vocal exponents of intellectual freedom in the West were working for or subsidized by the CIA—whether they knew it or not.

https://thenewpress.com/books/cultural-cold-war

[AutumnW]

Am I blaming the right for the weird left? No. I am saying the hard fascists have plans that go back decades and they might be boosting CRT for the backlash.

I mean, you do understand how deep cover works, right?

Sure, I get it, I just don't see any more evidence for that, than I see in this supposed widespread voter fraud. I'm not from Missouri, but I do have a deep appreciation for the "show me" sentiment.

I am not saying "I believe" "I am certain" I am saying it is worthy of consideration. If more people would qualify their ideas as that, rather than beliefs it would be helpful.

[AriG]

Something just occurred. What in the hell are we doing? To quote the great mind of Einstein (although he too has been partially debunked, but whatever)

“ No problem has ever been solved with the same level of consciousness that created it”. You all know the meme.

Why in the hell are we in the quagmire of common thought here? Can we not take this to the next dimension or two to earnestly try to figure out what is happening and how we as a collective, might combine energy to will the best possible outcome for humanity, not only in the present, but for those who inherit the “future”? Certainly we are better than splitting semantic hairs here.

[AutumnW]

The idea that there is 'systemic racism' is a racist statement. What there is is 'systemic minorityism'. That is because we live in a democracy where the majority 50% + 1 rule the minority. That is what has been turned into systemic racism. And since the majority is white, of many sub-races however, systemic racism was invented to explain it.

But no, there is no systemic racism, but there is indeed systemic minorityism.

But if all minorities group themselves under the banner of POC, they would as a coalition attain majority far faster than as separate minorities. This is the liberal realization that galvanized the new reforming a few years back now. That is what I am talking about. My racism is well in check, thanks. (and with the greatest respect for Autumn's opinion, regardless of intent)

Ernie, I have had some close associations in Canada with both the rcmp and indigenous people, so believe me when I say there is definitely systemic racism in policing and the criminal justice system. Take a look too, at the article from Al Jazeera who did the best reporting of the recent incident in Quebec. This isn't a one off. Apparently it is quite common. We are a racist society.

If whites feel under seige it is because their is over focus and politically correct attitude in some corporate areas, while other social areas receive no attention whatsoever. And those areas like prisons, hospitals, anywhere people are vulnerable, have been ignored. Maybe because, in the case of the police, they are darned near impossible to police.

[AutumnW]

AriG,

How sad your adopted children were mistreated through the warped ideology of PC. I admire you so much for taking all of that on. Peace Sister.

[AriG]

AriG,

How sad your adopted children were mistreated through the warped ideology of PC. I admire you so much for taking all of that on. Peace Sister.

Thank you Autumn, and I am
Truly sorry for not recognizing.... strike that, for failing to understand your POV prior to overreacting.

Life is a lesson...to better days

Xoxo

[onawah]

I am just jumping in here briefly to report that, though I have contributed a lot of criticism of Trump's policies in this thread over the last few years, I voted Republican for the first time ever, for him, and though still not a fan, have come to think that he is more than just the lesser of two evils.
I highly recommend Dark Journalist's show from tonight with featured guest Dr. Joseph Farrell.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?102135-Dark-Journalist-Joseph-Farrell-UFO-X-Factor-Black-Budget-Secret-Space-Network-16-March-2018&p=1389362&viewfull=1#post1389362
Their topic of discussion was Trump, this election and what it could mean for the future, etc.
They are both great researchers and dot connectors, so most likely everyone could learn something of value from it.
And it's very nice to see two Avalon members ironing out their differences constructively without having to resort to the Ignore option, or Mods stepping in. :clapping:

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

But, except for a very small number of people, the ones teaching and learning it truly believe in it. And it is immensely harmful. It's like a cultural cancer.

These highly polarizing social issues that we're dealing with in America (and across the world) are perfect vehicles to usher in Marxism. Race issues, gender issues, trans issues...they all seek to weaponize our compassion. They use a murky vocabulary designed to deceive. "Equity" is one such word.. It means forced outcomes. It means Marxism.

I would guess that 95% of people here in the states do not know that. They just hear the word "equality" or "equity", and immediately jump on board. And if you oppose it? Well you must be racist then!

When you have Marxism hiding in the comfy confines of polarizing social issues, it is very difficult to criticize it, for the reason i just laid out...you will labeled a racist, a transphobe, a misogynist. And therein lies it's genius.

Nail that b*stard to the wall. 100%!! :clapping: :clapping:

:heart:

[Lunesoleil]

mJN4dd7JDL8

This man is convinced that Trump is America's savior
:Avalon:

[Merlinus]

Yep, politicians are selected not elected, All of this is a farce. Trump is controlled, absolutely.

[abc]

I always find it hard to like politicians. I can't trust them. In my opinion, politicians only pretend to be with the people to get themselves elected and then discard any care towards said people.

[pueblo]

Yep, politicians are selected not elected, All of this is a farce. Trump is controlled, absolutely.

Who do you believe is controlling Trump?


I always find it hard to like politicians. I can't trust them. In my opinion, politicians only pretend to be with the people to get themselves elected and then discard any care towards said people.

I agree about trusting politicians. Trump though is not a career politician, does this fact make him any easier for you to like/trust?

[Zamolxe]

In light of the recent events that have unfolded, I wanted to start a new discussion after many years of being inactive.

In the past weeks, I've been reading all the threads related to the 2020 presidential elections - threads mostly gravitating around the fraud that has been described by the president and his allies.

I got to a point where I thought that most of the Avalon users hold Trump in high regards. But yesterday, I've seen members posting opposing views, which makes me think that they have just been silent around this subject.

So I would like to know.. concretely, what makes you consider Trump as a savior figure?
What accomplishments/policies do you resonate with?

Thanks!

[Metaphor]

I don´t deem trump as a saviour or anything. He was and perhaps still is a beacon of hope that the deep state and the satanic pedos are not unchallenged. Thats all I think of him. Being anti-Biden doesnt mean im pro-Trump. He´s just the devil you know. A day like today I feel that we cannot put our hopes to a politician, it has to be we that take things in our own hands.
We are waiting for "Gandalf the White" (https://www.google.se/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi-yOaczonuAhWwlosKHf4UAfQQygQwC3oECAIQCQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FGandalf%23Gandalf_the_White&usg=AOvVaw1a4K6TtwJ6hcrkeY1VTe2F) to come. But will he? or are we the ones we have been waiting for?

[pueblo]

There is already a thread addressing this..

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?112366-Why-Trump&highlight=trump%3F

[Zamolxe]

There is already a thread addressing this..

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?112366-Why-Trump&highlight=trump%3F

Sorry, seems I didn't do a good enough search.
Don't know if a mod should close this thread.

[Zamolxe]

I don´t deem trump as a saviour or anything. He was and perhaps still is a beacon of hope that the deep state and the satanic pedos are not unchallenged. Thats all I think of him. Being anti-Biden doesnt mean im pro-Trump. He´s just the devil you know. A day like today I feel that we cannot put our hopes to a politician, it has to be we that take things in our own hands.
We are waiting for "Gandalf the White" (https://www.google.se/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi-yOaczonuAhWwlosKHf4UAfQQygQwC3oECAIQCQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FGandalf%23Gandalf_the_White&usg=AOvVaw1a4K6TtwJ6hcrkeY1VTe2F) to come. But will he? or are we the ones we have been waiting for?

I understand your point of view, I don't like Biden either, and who wouldn't support an anti-deep state and anti-"satanic pedos" candidate.

But my question is, what has he done concretely that makes you believe he is those 2 things. I'm trying to find the precise actions that place him in those shoes. What I have seen until now, is only internet vloggers/bloggers stating that they have "insider" information that he is acting against the DS and satanic pedos.

[Mike]

He was trying to defund critical race theory. That was it for me. I regard crt as the biggest cancer threatening western civilization at the moment. In my view, he was the only thing separating us from that weird brand of insanity.

I don't think he was playing 3d chess or anything like that. I don't view him as a savior. I view him as the last line of defense against the likely destruction of the republic. It should have never gotten that far though. The fate of the country (and maybe the world) should have never wound up in his hands and his hands alone. Not fair. We all bear some responsibility for that. The clues were everywhere, but we didn't take them seriously enough. And now it's all this.

I want to blame Biden voters, but I can't. They're remarkably naive, but Ive been sleepwalking for a long time. Ive only just recently discovered what the hell is going on in this country. It's kind of like when i first discovered the bushel of nose hairs i have. My nose was itching all day, and when i looked closely i saw all these hideous nose hairs tickling the outer rim. And I thought, how the hell did those f#ckers sneak up on me without me noticing???

I want to take official responsiblity for my idiocy, just so i have the chance to sleep at night.

[Metaphor]

I don´t deem trump as a saviour or anything. He was and perhaps still is a beacon of hope that the deep state and the satanic pedos are not unchallenged. Thats all I think of him. Being anti-Biden doesnt mean im pro-Trump. He´s just the devil you know. A day like today I feel that we cannot put our hopes to a politician, it has to be we that take things in our own hands.
We are waiting for "Gandalf the White" (https://www.google.se/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi-yOaczonuAhWwlosKHf4UAfQQygQwC3oECAIQCQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FGandalf%23Gandalf_the_White&usg=AOvVaw1a4K6TtwJ6hcrkeY1VTe2F) to come. But will he? or are we the ones we have been waiting for?

I understand your point of view, I don't like Biden either, and who wouldn't support an anti-deep state and anti-"satanic pedos" candidate.

But my question is, what has he done concretely that makes you believe he is those 2 things. I'm trying to find the precise actions that place him in those shoes. What I have seen until now, is only internet vloggers/bloggers stating that they have "insider" information that he is acting against the DS and satanic pedos.

Hello again. No I don´t belive anything. it´s as you say a lot of people around trump that say and claim a lot of things. I have with great precaution followed this, and kind of fed of the hope that it gave, just to make it through the day. I just came for the "hopium". Like a junkie. Nothing more than that.

[Zamolxe]

He was trying to defund critical race theory. That was it for me. I regard crt as the biggest cancer threatening western civilization at the moment. In my view, he was the only thing separating us from that weird brand of insanity.

I don't think he was playing 3d chess or anything like that. I don't view him as a savior. I view him as the last line of defense against the likely destruction of the republic. It should have never gotten that far though. The fate of the country (and maybe the world) should have never wound up in his hands and his hands alone. Not fair. We all bear some responsibility for that. The clues were everywhere, but we didn't take them seriously enough. And now it's all this.

I want to blame Biden voters, but I can't. They're remarkably naive, but Ive been sleepwalking for a long time. Ive only just recently discovered what the hell is going on in this country. It's kind of like when i first discovered the bushel of nose hairs i have. My nose was itching all day, and when i looked closely i saw all these hideous nose hairs tickling the outer rim. And I thought, how the hell did those f#ckers sneak up on me without me noticing???

I want to take official responsiblity for my idiocy, just so i have the chance to sleep at night.


Thanks for the reply, had to google critical race theory and it led me to a very interesting subject to read about further.

It would seem that you are in a separate group that has a specific concern regarding the direction of american culture and society... and you saw Trump as necessary for turning away from that direction. I can understand people seeing having him president as being useful in regards to their own concerns and issues...

What I am trying to find is what actions has he taken that makes people see him as playing the "3d chess" that you mentioned. People that not see him only as necessary, but as a "savior" and as "the greatest president in history".

[Strat]

What I am trying to find is what actions has he taken that makes people see him as playing the "3d chess" that you mentioned. People that not see him only as necessary, but as a "savior" and as "the greatest president in history".

I don't mean to hijack your thread but as an American who loves reading US history, I can't take people who believe this seriously. I assume people who say this don't read US history, are trolling, are being facetious, or maybe they just can't stand the left so much that they say things like this as a kind of push back. I am pro Trump, but I don't get carried away with it.

[Bill Ryan]

So I would like to know.. concretely, what makes you consider Trump as a savior figure?

I do appreciate your very civil question. The best simple answer may be this:

As I've posted several times, it's not because of who he is. It's because of who he's not.

I'd encourage you (or anyone else!) to read my two long and detailed personal Q&A posts here, quite carefully. There's a lot of information there.


#1182 (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?104824-Bill-Ryan-s-personal-Question-and-Answer-thread.-Pile-it-on.--&p=1391628&viewfull=1#post1391628) (20 November)
#1207 (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?104824-Bill-Ryan-s-personal-Question-and-Answer-thread.-Pile-it-on.--&p=1398038&viewfull=1#post1398038) (21 December)

[Zamolxe]

What I am trying to find is what actions has he taken that makes people see him as playing the "3d chess" that you mentioned. People that not see him only as necessary, but as a "savior" and as "the greatest president in history".

I don't mean to hijack your thread but as an American who loves reading US history, I can't take people who believe this seriously. I assume people who say this don't read US history, are trolling, are being facetious, or maybe they just can't stand the left so much that they say things like this as a kind of push back. I am pro Trump, but I don't get carried away with it.

Well, Trump himself has said it multiple times, so how can you be pro Trump if you don't take him seriously? Also, most of the opinion-show tv/radio hosts that he keeps retweeting have also said it multiple times.

[Strat]

Well, Trump himself has said it multiple times, so how can you be pro Trump if you don't take him seriously?

I think we have a slight miscommunication. When I say I'm pro Trump I mean I prefer him over the alternative. He says and does dumb things and we've had other presidents that have done more for the country in worse situations. This is a very large topic and I'm trying to keep it brief so apologies if my 2 cents aren't very helpful.

[Zamolxe]

So I would like to know.. concretely, what makes you consider Trump as a savior figure?

I do appreciate your very civil question. The best simple answer may be this:

As I've posted several times, it's not because of who he is. It's because of who he's not.

I'd encourage you (or anyone else!) to read my two long and detailed personal Q&A posts here, quite carefully. There's a lot of information there.


#1182 (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?104824-Bill-Ryan-s-personal-Question-and-Answer-thread.-Pile-it-on.--&p=1391628&viewfull=1#post1391628) (20 November)
#1207 (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?104824-Bill-Ryan-s-personal-Question-and-Answer-thread.-Pile-it-on.--&p=1398038&viewfull=1#post1398038) (21 December)


Thanks for the reply, I read the posts and went down the thread for more details.

So from what I can see, what he is not is part of the deep state.

The purpose of this thread was to centralize the actions he took that literally show he is not part of the deep state. Have the actual facts listed here.
Because besides his rhetoric and countless claims on the internet that he is fighting the deep state behind closed doors, I don't know of any concrete activity of his against the deep state.

Opposed to that, I do know a number of arguments based on facts that would prove the exact contrary.


Also, there was a list in one of those posts:


The forum members are almost uniformly libertarian or classic liberal — depending on the definitions.
They're:


Anti censorship
Anti authoritarian
Pro free speech
Anti political correctness and identity politics (such as espoused by SJWs)
Anti war
Anti NWO
Anti vaccines and big pharma (largely)
Pro environment
Pro All Lives Matter
Anti racism and prejudice of any kind
Pro personal freedom in almost every way.



There are also countless factual examples that would place Trump in complete antithesis of multiple points in that list.

[Old Student]

I'm sorry, but you're going to have to explain to this "naive" non-Trump supporter exactly what it means to defund a theory. That seems like a nonsensical statement, you know, the type that can't even be proven false because a statement needs to mean something before it can be proven either way.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Trump is not savoir. It's called a real grassroots movement, unlike that fomented by the left. It's about systemic corruption on a scale closing in on insurmountable power. It is about the technocracy that seeks to dominate and dictate policy to governments and peoples all over the world. It is about as Americans call it, Liberty. It's as close to freedom the world has ever been able to dream. And it is a dream far from realization, and slipping further and further into wistful fantasy. Trump drew a line in the sand and invited freedom loving patriots to join the cause. His call is so loud and so clear that freedom loving people in other lands who had almost forgotten their own wish had their dreams rekindled - and their hope revitalized.

World-wide Systemic Corruption and the technocracy that supports it must be addressed, opposed, and ultimately defeated. Without Trump, we must find another champion to lead us in the charge. Such men and women are truly needles in a haystack. Who else is there?

And don't think this can be done by community opposition either. That did not work in China and it won't work here either. The technocracy is a monster, a massive behemoth with tentacles in every institution on the planet and enjoying the favor of elite friends with empires and global influence.

One side of the narrative has been effectively silenced - THEY SILENCED THE VOICE OF THE AMERICAN PRESIDENT! The technocracy muted the leader of the free world, wrangled him in legal battles, and threatened him with treason and perdition.

When they silenced him they silenced us, maybe we missed that?

Will we ever be heard again?

Maybe I'll meet you guys in the gulag detention camps the western world did not build by the thousands...

[PurpleLama]

I'm sorry, but you're going to have to explain to this "naive" non-Trump supporter exactly what it means to defund a theory. That seems like a nonsensical statement, you know, the type that can't even be proven false because a statement needs to mean something before it can be proven either way.

You don't know anything about corpratized diversity or racial sensitivity training? Never heard of Ibram Kendi or anti-racism? How about Robin DiAngelo? You need to know about what is being discussed, what Mike is pointing at is going on in public schools, and in corporate offices all across the country, and is rapidly becoming pervasive. In this case I would not suggest you are being naive, but uninformed? Yes. There is a remedy for that!

In a nut shell, critical theory comes from combining critical systems theory and postmodernism, to apply to humans and their relationships, and interpret every interaction in the worst possible light. From critical race theory comes many ideas, formost being that to be white is to be born racist, and to be born black one is automatically oppressed and incapable of racism, while this is somewhat generalized example it is still fairly emblematic.

[Zamolxe]

Trump is not savoir. It's called a real grassroots movement, unlike that fomented by the left. It's about systemic corruption on a scale closing in on insurmountable power. It is about the technocracy that seeks to dominate and dictate policy to governments and peoples all over the world. It is about as Americans call it, Liberty. It's as close to freedom the world has ever been able to dream. And it is a dream far from realization, and slipping further and further into wistful fantasy. Trump drew a line in the sand and invited freedom loving patriots to join the cause. His call is so loud and so clear that freedom loving people in other lands who had almost forgotten their own wish had their dreams rekindled - and their hope revitalized.

World-wide Systemic Corruption and the technocracy that supports it must be addressed, opposed, and ultimately defeated. Without Trump, we must find another champion to lead us in the charge. Such men and women are truly needles in a haystack. Who else is there?

And don't think this can be done by community opposition either. That did not work in China and it won't work here either. The technocracy is a monster, a massive behemoth with tentacles in every institution on the planet and enjoying the favor of elite friends with empires and global influence.

One side of the narrative has been effectively silenced - THEY SILENCED THE VOICE OF THE AMERICAN PRESIDENT! The technocracy muted the leader of the free world, wrangled him in legal battles, and threatened him with treason and perdition.

When they silenced him they silenced us, maybe we missed that?

Will we ever be heard again?

Maybe I'll meet you guys in the gulag detention camps the western world did not build by the thousands...

I completely agree with you, World-wide Systemic Corruption is rampant and it needs to be addressed... not today, but yesterday.

As you mentioned lines in the sand, my question is... how long do we wait for the promises to be fulfilled, for the war cries to actually lead to a battle... when do we cross the line from:
- "a champion to lead us in the charge"
to
- a con man, a grifter that uses empty rhetoric, populist demagogy to fulfill his own political fantasies and fill his own pockets

How much time do we have to wait to see him act according to his promises of "draining the swamp"?
When do we start thinking critically and realize that maybe it was just wishful thinking?
Accepting that we are wrong is the first step to moving forward, cognitive dissonance does not help at all with advancing to the next step of the fight.

Again, the purpose of this thread was to centralize the facts and after that, decide if he was a con-man or a champion.
After all, 4 years have passed, so what do we get when we tally up his achievements?


Just to make things clear, I do not support Biden or the democrats, but this discussion is about Trump and his accomplishments after 4 years in office.

[Ernie Nemeth]

His greatest accomplishment is the rallying call to all peoples of the world to resist the corruption and stand up for the truth.

His greatest accomplishment is calling **** as he sees it, without niceties. Like The Biden Crime Family, or The China Flu, or Antifa is a terrorist organization, or the corrupt media, as a few examples.

He modernized the armed forces, built the wall, brought troops home from endless wars, never started a war, revamped the veterans bill, established standard funding for minority advanced learning, peace deals in the middle east, space force, reworked the trade deals in the country's best interest, has a strong upstanding family, brought the vaccine in record time but also therapeutics. Had the best economic recovery of American history - twice! That's just the few off the top of my head.

[Old Student]

You don't know anything about corpratized diversity or racial sensitivity training?

I didn't say that. I do know about Critical Race Theory, I know where it was conceived, who conceived it, what it says, and all sorts of other goodies about it. I'm not a fan.

What I said was, the statement, "He defunded critical race theory," is nonsensical. It doesn't make any sense. It's like saying, "He scrapped funding for General Relativity."

I'm not ignorant of C.R.T., nor of Trump's disastrous term in office. When listing his accomplishments or supposed accomplishments, one of them can't be that he defunded a theory. Theories are not funded or defunded, and saying they are is nonsense.

[PurpleLama]

You don't know anything about corpratized diversity or racial sensitivity training?

I didn't say that. I do know about Critical Race Theory, I know where it was conceived, who conceived it, what it says, and all sorts of other goodies about it. I'm not a fan.

What I said was, the statement, "He defunded critical race theory," is nonsensical. It doesn't make any sense. It's like saying, "He scrapped funding for General Relativity."

I'm not ignorant of C.R.T., nor of Trump's disastrous term in office. When listing his accomplishments or supposed accomplishments, one of them can't be that he defunded a theory. Theories are not funded or defunded, and saying they are is nonsense.

He passed an executive order that basically banned it from the government and any company that contracts from the government. So, while Mike may have given up some clarity for the sake of brevity, I think the statement that Trump "defunded CRT" is not unfair to say.

Apologies for assuming that you meant that you were unfamiliar with these concepts, many people have heard of "diversity training" while having never heard of CRT nor what it entails.

Here you can read it for yourself. (https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-order-combating-race-sex-stereotyping/)

[DeDukshyn]

I consider Trump a buffoon. The policies and changes that he has set forth have led things backwards in a lot of sense. What he has done - the changes he has made will only lead us back to where we were headed anyway, but what that has done is provide a disruption. A useful disruption to the globalists plans. He has bought us time to be able to help the masses see what is really going on in this world.

I think the concept that he is some saviour or working for the "light", or playing "4D chess" is complete and utter nonsense - a far exaggeration from what he has actually accomplished, but like I said, his disruptive buffoonery has bought us time - time needed to help the masses wake up.

From my view it really is as simple as that.

[ExomatrixTV]

593244428222243


source (https://www.facebook.com/dcairforcetv/videos/593244428222243)

You can thank me posting this after you watched this video carefully.

cheers,
John

[Zamolxe]

His greatest accomplishment is the rallying call to all peoples of the world to resist the corruption and stand up for the truth.

His greatest accomplishment is calling **** as he sees it, without niceties. Like The Biden Crime Family, or The China Flu, or Antifa is a terrorist organization, or the corrupt media, as a few examples.

He modernized the armed forces, built the wall, brought troops home from endless wars, never started a war, revamped the veterans bill, established standard funding for minority advanced learning, peace deals in the middle east, space force, reworked the trade deals in the country's best interest, has a strong upstanding family, brought the vaccine in record time but also therapeutics. Had the best economic recovery of American history - twice! That's just the few off the top of my head.


Thanks for the reply, this is indeed a list of accomplishments.

I agree that he expanded the Veterans Choice Program, built part of the wall (over 300 miles of wall have been built, though just 5 miles are new - and not paid by Mexico, rather, for example, by a 31% spending cut to the Environmental Protection Agency)

Also, I do believe that with his strong arm tactics he managed to rework a number of trade deals. But we do have to agree that this can't be dragged on forever, diplomacy has a certain meaning. You cannot unilaterally break previous agreements and expect that everyone will roll over for you.
In this way, he probably was very useful for the next administration, as he did what they wouldn't dare do.

But I don't agree with some points in the list:

Space force - he broke parts of the airforce and created a new Organizational Unit. I don't really see why this is a presidential achievement.

Regarding ME peace, there still is no plan on the horizon to end the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, he actually exacerbated it.

Regarding vaccines - I fail to see why this is his accomplishment.
The Trump administration announced Operation Warp Speed to help with vaccines on May 15, 2020, months after the start of the Phase 1 study and the original design of the vaccine by Moderna.
Also, Pfizer COVID-19 Vaccine R&D Wasn't Part of 'Warp Speed' Program and it became available at the same time.
Meanwhile, other countries have developed vaccines during the exact same time-frame without Trump's help.
So what has Trump done exclusively regarding vaccines that makes this "his" accomplishment?
Besides that, I do not know of any therapeutics being developed through warp-speed, could you provide any info, as you mark this as his accomplishment?


But I don't see any of these points being remotely related to "fighting the deep-state"

[Zamolxe]

Regarding not starting wars - I do agree, but he did come close with Iran.

And here is a list of actions that don't really show him as anti-war:


"The Trump administration informed Congress that it would go ahead with $8 billion worth of arms sales to Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and the United Arab Emirates — despite congressional objections that it would lead to Saudis dropping bombs on civilians in Yemen."


Attacking syria with 59 Tomahawk missiles - killed approx 100 syrians


"Donald Trump has insisted that the US military presence in Syria is “only for the oil”, contradicting his own officials who have insisted that the remaining forces were there to fight Isis.
Following Trump’s earlier insistence that his administration was solely interested in “keeping” Syrian oil, the US military deployed mechanised military units to oil fields in the east of the country.
Trump Says U.S. Troops Stayed in Syria 'Because I Kept the Oil'
In the wake of President Donald Trump’s abrupt decision to remove U.S. troops from northeastern Syria — Trump has acquiesced in a different U.S. troop presence in Syria: near Kurdish-held oil fields.
This adjusted U.S. military presence in Syria has raised a range of concerns. Some are legal questions about a deployment seemingly focused, at least geographically, on another country’s natural resources. Others are messaging concerns, given how much this action “plays into toxic Middle Eastern conspiracy theories” of Americans’ desire to profit from Middle Eastern oil"

Trump administration helped GOP donors get Syria oil deal
"Rayburn also admitted that the Trump administration had actually pushed for Delta Crescent Energy — and no other companies — to receive permission to exploit Syrian oil."


His aggression towards Iran, airstrike that killed Qassim Suleimani. Threatening sites “important to Iran & the Iranian culture”.


"Trump Inherited the Drone War but Ditched Accountability"

"Trump's air strikes in Afghanistan dramatically increased civilian deaths: Report
The US's easing of restrictions on aerial strikes has led to an increase of attacks across the Middle East, Afghanistan and neighbouring countries"

"This administration has not only surpassed the previous one’s drone strike volume overseas, it has made the drone wars even more secretive, if that’s possible.
According to a 2018 report in The Daily Beast, Obama launched 186 drone strikes in Yemen, Somalia and Pakistan during his first two years in office. In Trump’s first two years, he launched 238."

And his most recent action (which has gone completely under the radar here on Avalon):
"President Donald Trump has pardoned four Blackwater security guards who were given lengthy prison sentences for killing 14 civilians in Baghdad in 2007, a massacre that caused international uproar"

[Ernie Nemeth]

Every action that opposes the plan of the deep state is fighting the deep state. The problem is that now we know that the deep state is far more pervasive and set in place than we had ever imagined. Thanks to Trump's efforts this truth has been highlighted, another accomplishment.

I will not enter a debate about the merits of my statements. Nit pick if you must. And divide us further, or not, as you see fit.

This is my response to any refutations: what are Biden's accomplishments, the unrivaled most popular President in America's history, by far? And as a counter, do you believe there was extensive election fraud? Because if not we are not on the same page or even in the same book.

Everything is on the line, maybe this is not evident to some as yet.

[Zamolxe]

This is my response to any refutations: what are Biden's accomplishments, the unrivaled most popular President in America's history, by far?

First of all, I do not believe Biden has or will have any accomplishments against the deep state, I don't view him any more positively. And I do not like to use whataboutism in an argument.



Every action that opposes the plan of the deep state is fighting the deep state.

Even if we agree or not if the points on your list are accurate, I still don't see which of those are "actions that oppose the plan of the deep state"

I thought Avalon was a place safe for discussion or fact based debates. Why do you see fit to consider this as "nit picking" or "dividing you further"?



And as a counter, do you believe there was extensive election fraud? Because if not we are not on the same page or even in the same book.

Why would this be a counter? And if, let's say, I wouldn't consider there was extensive election fraud, would that disqualify me from a discussion?
Should all discussions be between people with the same point of view? Wouldn't this be dangerous, as in closing yourself in a bubble where you echo your own beliefs?

[42]

So I would like to know.. concretely, what makes you consider Trump as a savior figure?

I do appreciate your very civil question. The best simple answer may be this:

As I've posted several times, it's not because of who he is. It's because of who he's not.

I'd encourage you (or anyone else!) to read my two long and detailed personal Q&A posts here, quite carefully. There's a lot of information there.


#1182 (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?104824-Bill-Ryan-s-personal-Question-and-Answer-thread.-Pile-it-on.--&p=1391628&viewfull=1#post1391628) (20 November)
#1207 (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?104824-Bill-Ryan-s-personal-Question-and-Answer-thread.-Pile-it-on.--&p=1398038&viewfull=1#post1398038) (21 December)


Bill - a very civil reply i hope...i so far have tried to resist commenting on this topic as I am not a US citizen and I fundamentally despise politics, as politics is typically service to self (the politician) not service to others (the citizens).

Obviously government is essential to keep a country running, however...politics and politicians are different from government in that they are an unnecessary and tribal distraction; as this forum is witnessing!

You have posted several times that your position is that "it's because of who he's not". Patently, yesterday and for the last 4 years Trump has demonstrated that "what he is not" is fit for office.

Across the world, leaders have united in stating their dismay at his deplorable destruction of democracy. Republicans and Democrats alike are calling for his immediate removal from office. After Trump running a toxic 19 month campaign for election, US voting citizens made the choice to vote him in. Their choice came home to roost yesterday.

What Trump "is not" is fit for office. 25th amendment now.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Zamolxe, you have every right to any opinion, of course.

I just don't feel like debate right now. sorry

[Lunesoleil]

I think we have a slight miscommunication. When I say I'm pro Trump I mean I prefer him over the alternative. He says and does dumb things and we've had other presidents that have done more for the country in worse situations. This is a very large topic and I'm trying to keep it brief so apologies if my 2 cents aren't very helpful.

Supporters of Maduro from Venezuela are not going to like Trump. There was also the installation of the border wall with Mexico, another argument to hate Trump or to increase the tax on the export of French wine. Do nothing against pollution, Trump is recognized as the most polluting on the planet, in reality other countries do little. better. In a few weeks, I became pro-Trump and don't know why, because I have this impression that this president is missing something. I read that Nancy Pelosi would have asked for his dismissal, afraid of what? Don't really know if anything will change before January 20th. It's been a long time since I believe in Santa Claus ...

[chrifri]

So I would like to know.. concretely, what makes you consider Trump as a savior figure?

I do appreciate your very civil question. The best simple answer may be this:

As I've posted several times, it's not because of who he is. It's because of who he's not.

I'd encourage you (or anyone else!) to read my two long and detailed personal Q&A posts here, quite carefully. There's a lot of information there.


#1182 (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?104824-Bill-Ryan-s-personal-Question-and-Answer-thread.-Pile-it-on.--&p=1391628&viewfull=1#post1391628) (20 November)
#1207 (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?104824-Bill-Ryan-s-personal-Question-and-Answer-thread.-Pile-it-on.--&p=1398038&viewfull=1#post1398038) (21 December)


Bill - a very civil reply i hope...i so far have tried to resist commenting on this topic as I am not a US citizen and I fundamentally despise politics, as politics is typically service to self (the politician) not service to others (the citizens).

Obviously government is essential to keep a country running, however...politics and politicians are different from government in that they are an unnecessary and tribal distraction; as this forum is witnessing!

You have posted several times that your position is that "it's because of who he's not". Patently, yesterday and for the last 4 years Trump has demonstrated that "what he is not" is fit for office.

Across the world, leaders have united in stating their dismay at his deplorable destruction of democracy. Republicans and Democrats alike are calling for his immediate removal from office. After Trump running a toxic 19 month campaign for election, US voting citizens made the choice to vote him in. Their choice came home to roost yesterday.

What Trump "is not" is fit for office. 25th amendment now.

Dear 42
I am not a Trump fan and never was. I am not US citizen and, as you, did resist so far to comment on this topic. I am completely in agreement with your comment regarding politicians and their self service.

Nevertheless I have a few questions regarding your comment
1. What happened yesterday that showed us that Trump is not fit for office? Have I missed something?
2. Do you really believe that it is important what the World leaders state? After all, as you correctly mentioned, politics and politicians are typically for self service. Is it more important what the World leaders state or does it matter what the majority of voters voted for? (although not being a Trump fan I have no doubt at all that there was massive fraud and that the election was stolen)
3. Why do you believe that Trump is not fit for office? Do you believe Biden is fit for this task?

personally I believe that most politicians are not fit for office. Especially all those being interested mostly in self service only and all those that probably are corrupt or compromised (maybe most of them)

In that sense, most of Sakers comments on the following link, seem to be correct
http://thesaker.is/mind-blowing-hypocrisy/

[42]

So I would like to know.. concretely, what makes you consider Trump as a savior figure?

I do appreciate your very civil question. The best simple answer may be this:

As I've posted several times, it's not because of who he is. It's because of who he's not.

I'd encourage you (or anyone else!) to read my two long and detailed personal Q&A posts here, quite carefully. There's a lot of information there.


#1182 (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?104824-Bill-Ryan-s-personal-Question-and-Answer-thread.-Pile-it-on.--&p=1391628&viewfull=1#post1391628) (20 November)
#1207 (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?104824-Bill-Ryan-s-personal-Question-and-Answer-thread.-Pile-it-on.--&p=1398038&viewfull=1#post1398038) (21 December)


Bill - a very civil reply i hope...i so far have tried to resist commenting on this topic as I am not a US citizen and I fundamentally despise politics, as politics is typically service to self (the politician) not service to others (the citizens).

Obviously government is essential to keep a country running, however...politics and politicians are different from government in that they are an unnecessary and tribal distraction; as this forum is witnessing!

You have posted several times that your position is that "it's because of who he's not". Patently, yesterday and for the last 4 years Trump has demonstrated that "what he is not" is fit for office.

Across the world, leaders have united in stating their dismay at his deplorable destruction of democracy. Republicans and Democrats alike are calling for his immediate removal from office. After Trump running a toxic 19 month campaign for election, US voting citizens made the choice to vote him in. Their choice came home to roost yesterday.

What Trump "is not" is fit for office. 25th amendment now.

Dear 42
I am not a Trump fan and never was. I am not US citizen and, as you, did resist so far to comment on this topic. I am completely in agreement with your comment regarding politicians and their self service.

Nevertheless I have a few questions regarding your comment
1. What happened yesterday that showed us that Trump is not fit for office? Have I missed something?
2. Do you really believe that it is important what the World leaders state? After all, as you correctly mentioned, politics and politicians are typically for self service. Is it more important what the World leaders state or does it matter what the majority of voters voted for? (although not being a Trump fan I have no doubt at all that there was massive fraud and that the election was stolen)
3. Why do you believe that Trump is not fit for office? Do you believe Biden is fit for this task?

personally I believe that most politicians are not fit for office. Especially all those being interested mostly in self service only and all those that probably are corrupt or compromised (maybe most of them)

In that sense, most of Sakers comments on the following link, seem to be correct
http://thesaker.is/mind-blowing-hypocrisy/

1. He clearly encouraged demonstrators to march and used inflammatory language that is inconsistent with discouraging violence
2. When a large number of world leaders ( former US allies who Trump has deliberately distanced with his America first policies) see the situation the same way (unacceptable and provocative) it is a data set worth considering
3. I make no claims that Biden is a better choice. I do claim, however, that Trump has done nothing to bring his country or his former allies to a better more harmonious alignment. He is a divider not an aligner. Disruptive, narcissistic and delusional to boot. I don't drink his Koolaid.

[Lunesoleil]

6Yv80etxATs
Vidéo pro-Biden

Favorite video of Biden supporters, found on an astrologer's FB profile ... I understood why Trump's discussion was closed and reopened after the election. I'm also a member of a group, where I found out that they were pro-Biden ... there are a lot of videos like this on YouTube, which are not blocked, she Vote Him Away, these are active energies, like the rest and act in the shadows in the form of an influence ...

[chrifri]

So I would like to know.. concretely, what makes you consider Trump as a savior figure?

I do appreciate your very civil question. The best simple answer may be this:

As I've posted several times, it's not because of who he is. It's because of who he's not.

I'd encourage you (or anyone else!) to read my two long and detailed personal Q&A posts here, quite carefully. There's a lot of information there.


#1182 (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?104824-Bill-Ryan-s-personal-Question-and-Answer-thread.-Pile-it-on.--&p=1391628&viewfull=1#post1391628) (20 November)
#1207 (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?104824-Bill-Ryan-s-personal-Question-and-Answer-thread.-Pile-it-on.--&p=1398038&viewfull=1#post1398038) (21 December)


Bill - a very civil reply i hope...i so far have tried to resist commenting on this topic as I am not a US citizen and I fundamentally despise politics, as politics is typically service to self (the politician) not service to others (the citizens).

Obviously government is essential to keep a country running, however...politics and politicians are different from government in that they are an unnecessary and tribal distraction; as this forum is witnessing!

You have posted several times that your position is that "it's because of who he's not". Patently, yesterday and for the last 4 years Trump has demonstrated that "what he is not" is fit for office.

Across the world, leaders have united in stating their dismay at his deplorable destruction of democracy. Republicans and Democrats alike are calling for his immediate removal from office. After Trump running a toxic 19 month campaign for election, US voting citizens made the choice to vote him in. Their choice came home to roost yesterday.

What Trump "is not" is fit for office. 25th amendment now.

Dear 42
I am not a Trump fan and never was. I am not US citizen and, as you, did resist so far to comment on this topic. I am completely in agreement with your comment regarding politicians and their self service.

Nevertheless I have a few questions regarding your comment
1. What happened yesterday that showed us that Trump is not fit for office? Have I missed something?
2. Do you really believe that it is important what the World leaders state? After all, as you correctly mentioned, politics and politicians are typically for self service. Is it more important what the World leaders state or does it matter what the majority of voters voted for? (although not being a Trump fan I have no doubt at all that there was massive fraud and that the election was stolen)
3. Why do you believe that Trump is not fit for office? Do you believe Biden is fit for this task?

personally I believe that most politicians are not fit for office. Especially all those being interested mostly in self service only and all those that probably are corrupt or compromised (maybe most of them)

In that sense, most of Sakers comments on the following link, seem to be correct
http://thesaker.is/mind-blowing-hypocrisy/

1. He clearly encouraged demonstrators to march and used inflammatory language that is inconsistent with discouraging violence
2. When a large number of world leaders ( former US allies who Trump has deliberately distanced with his America first policies) see the situation the same way (unacceptable and provocative) it is a data set worth considering
3. I make no claims that Biden is a better choice. I do claim, however, that Trump has done nothing to bring his country or his former allies to a better more harmonious alignment. He is a divider not an aligner. Disruptive, narcissistic and delusional to boot. I don't drink his Koolaid.

Thanks 42
To 1. Do you have any video evidence that he did that? I am asking because in the video I saw he clearly told his followers to keep peace and to go home.
2. Word leaders as Macron who is clearly acting against his people. Merkel who, as Macron acts absolutely against Germans, Boris who keeps his people in prison (although at home) and others, all 100% globalists. None of them acting in our favor. Do all those leaders that work against the people have moral ground to state anything?
3. I am not sure if being in alignment with other self serving leaders is good or not. In any case, in my opinion it does not matter if we like Trump or not or if the world leaders are for Trump or not, what matters is the people that have voted form him and what matters are rigged elections.
Although I am not pro Trump I do honestly believe that the other choice 4 years ago would have been very bad for all of us and I must say that I truly believe that Biden is not really good news.

[rgray222]

First and foremost Donald Trump is not a politician, this one fact alone makes him appealing to a lot of people. Secondly, his wealth gives him some immunity from what many politicians want which is power and wealth. Trump supporters live under no misapprehension of who Donald Trump is; they fully understand that he is antagonistic, confrontational, and that he embellishes all the time. They simply accept these character traits and knew about them before they ever cast a ballot. Several of these characteristics are positive attributes, not negative. Nobody thinks that Trump is a savior but they think he is good for the world. Above all, with Trump, it is NOT business as usual.


One of the main reasons many people support Trump is because he is against wars that have been raging in the middle east for over 20 years. Politicians on both sides constantly find reasons to keep these wars going.
Trump support freedom for people in every way possible, freedom of speech, freedom of movement, freedom from censorship etc.
The citizens of the USA were told that they would never see a growth rate above 3 percent. They called it the new normal. He proved that they were lying.
People were sarcastically told that Trump would need a magic wand to create jobs especially manufacturing jobs. He either had a wand or proved that they were lying.
Trump created an economy pre-COVID with historically low unemployment rates for blacks, Latinos, women.
Small business ownership by minorities increased by almost 400% prior to Covid restrictions decimating the economy.
Trump is in favor of robust immigration but legal immigration. Both parties caused the immigration problem and both parties refused to fix it. A wall was the only solution available.
Americans watched in horror as politicians negotiated horrible trade deals around the world. The Chinese Trade deals were disastrous and NAFTA and CAFTA equally bad. We were told by politicians that they would be good for the country. Then Americans watched as millions upon millions of jobs moved to China, Mexico, and elsewhere around the world.
Americans watched as Obama shipped $150 Billion dollars to Iran in two unmarked military airplanes. No comment needed
Americans watched in horror as Obama signed a nuclear deal with the Iranians which gave them a clear path to nuclear weapons after 10 years. Even his own party and the media were outraged when it happened.
Trump promised that he would take on the terrorist and he has. People understand he will never get rid of them but he has destroyed their power base and diminished their numbers.
Trump removed the USA from the Paris Climate Accord that has been deemed a dismal failure even by the UN.
He is not afraid to take on the mainstream media who have been delivering untruthful news for many years. I am sure you know but the reason he uses Twitter is to bypass the media and speak directly to the public.


There are many other reasons that people support Trump and these are just a few that come to mind but I don't think we are ever going to go back to business as usual. Politicians have wondered for a long time how far they could push the silent majority before they would speak up and they have found out.

[Old Student]

First off, they are not the silent majority, Trump lost the popular election in both 2016 and 2020.

Second off, there are hundreds of thousands of dead people who would not agree with you that this man has done anything other than a horrible job. Some deaths from Covid were inevitable. But we have done by far the worst in the world in dealing with the pandemic. We did that because your wonderful shake people up and not censor idiot campaigned against mitigation and hired a jackass from Hoover Institution with a plan to get everyone infected and let god sort it out.

Now he has tried to overthrow the peaceful transfer of power by force and violence. He needs to go to Florence ADX like any other terrorist. He's killed far more people than Osama bin Laden, and his traitor friends in the Congress and the Capitol Police need to face charges. Insurrection isn't legal nor permitted by the Constitution.

[Gracy]

First and foremost Donald Trump is not a politician,

If I graduate police academy then I am now a cop; if I graduate medical school, then I am now a doctor.

And if I win a presidential election? Then I am now a politician.

DJT is now a hard nosed politician, I can't possibly imagine a credible argument against this.

[DeDukshyn]

First and foremost Donald Trump is not a politician,

If I graduate police academy then I am now a cop; if I graduate medical school, then I am now a doctor.

And if I win a presidential election? Then I am now a politician.

DJT is now a hard nosed politician, I can't possibly imagine a credible argument against this.

I agree ... Trump is a politician, so was Bush Jr (skull and bones member - part of a crime family), Arnold Schwarzenegger (bodybuilder / actor), Jesse Ventura (entertainment wrestler / actor), etc.

Being a politician, isn't necessarily any badge of honour - any clown or corrupt criminal can be a politician. But I will say that a politician and a leader are not the same things - let us not confuse those two terms.

[Old Student]

He passed an executive order that basically banned it from the government and any company that contracts from the government. So, while Mike may have given up some clarity for the sake of brevity, I think the statement that Trump "defunded CRT" is not unfair to say.

And is this also a shorthand for the "sake of brevity"? He signs executive orders, he does not pass them. That's a very important distinction. He has had zero input from Congress or the Court (the other two branches of government) when he signs an executive order. In fact, he's not allowed to do executive orders having to do with funding at all, except in a declared emergency. Even the Senate, a branch of Congress, is not allowed to do funding by themselves, all bills or provisions having to do with funding must start in the House of Representatives per the Constitution.

So what he did was sign either a meaningless piece of paper for show to dupe people who don't keep track of how the government works, or he asserted that the country is in a state of emergency because of critical race theory.

Which was it? Because while I'm not CRT's biggest fan, there is no way that its existence constitutes a national emergency.

[Anka]

Hi Zamolxe,

I am quite far from anything that could be called controversy or debate, and far too curious to understand that I do not want to know the course of correlations in this "cosmic wedding of worldly events."

Because in the light of any antithesis between two phenomena, the central panel of the design between a perfectly practically confirmed concordance, the objective nature of the perception and the reflective justice could lead to as many argumentative antinomies as aspects and perspectives ...
So between "I don't like Biden" and "Why Trump is considered a savior", apart from the question you asked, did you manage to find the answer?
Because this is really a place for any rational debate, and the concrete factual events of the world really affect people.
If everything leads to hope, when you look at a loaded weapon, what's the difference?

[Grey Brain]

I think people like him for different reasons, but those that see him as a 'savior' tend to be those that are newly waking up to some ugly truths in the world ~ child trafficking, corrupt political system, globalist controllers, war mongering, etc... meanwhile, here comes Trump. There are some stark contrasts between him and basically anyone else in politics (that gained any traction). He addressed the aforementioned issues directly, hitting the nail on the head. He also projected the notion of increased prosperity, that never hurts. I mean, to be fair, it could have been anyone with some juice/swagger/pull/inserttermhere talking about draining the swamp, stopping the globalists, ending wars, standing up for the little guy... putting some extra change in your pocket even -- this gave people HOPE - and thus, he was propelled onwards and upwards. Makes perfect sense to me, anyway. What do we all want fixed anyway? I think everyone can agree that getting rid of all the corrupt politicians/controlling parties and their atrocious mechanisms of gaining money and power would be absolutely great for humanity. If anyone presents the prospect of being able to put events in motion that will accomplish this - they are going to be revered by many.

[Zamolxe]

I think people like him for different reasons, but those that see him as a 'savior' tend to be those that are newly waking up to some ugly truths in the world ~ child trafficking, corrupt political system, globalist controllers, war mongering, etc... meanwhile, here comes Trump. There are some stark contrasts between him and basically anyone else in politics (that gained any traction). He addressed the aforementioned issues directly, hitting the nail on the head. He also projected the notion of increased prosperity, that never hurts. I mean, to be fair, it could have been anyone with some juice/swagger/pull/inserttermhere talking about draining the swamp, stopping the globalists, ending wars, standing up for the little guy... putting some extra change in your pocket even -- this gave people HOPE - and thus, he was propelled onwards and upwards. Makes perfect sense to me, anyway. What do we all want fixed anyway? I think everyone can agree that getting rid of all the corrupt politicians/controlling parties and their atrocious mechanisms of gaining money and power would be absolutely great for humanity. If anyone presents the prospect of being able to put events in motion that will accomplish this - they are going to be revered by many.


I completely agree that if a "political" candidate starts talking about all those things ("child trafficking, corrupt political system, globalist controllers, war mongering, the notion of increased prosperity, draining the swamp, stopping the globalists, ending wars, standing up for the little guy"), people would... and should... start paying attention to him, as he might be a good choice.

The point of this thread is to figure out when do we start practicing critical thinking and start discerning empty rhetoric from clear actions. I keep hearing the same lines "people like him because he spoke against...".
Is that all that takes to become president? Just have rallies and speeches in which you attack the most populist issues... and then take absolutely no actions towards those goals?

It's been 4 years, more than enough time to hold him accountable and see what he's done.

What has he done against the deep state?

Regarding not starting wars, please see my earlier post:

Regarding not starting wars - I do agree, but he did come close with Iran.

And here is a list of actions that don't really show him as anti-war:

[Zamolxe]

First and foremost Donald Trump is not a politician, this one fact alone makes him appealing to a lot of people. Secondly, his wealth gives him some immunity from what many politicians want which is power and wealth. Trump supporters live under no misapprehension of who Donald Trump is; they fully understand that he is antagonistic, confrontational, and that he embellishes all the time. They simply accept these character traits and knew about them before they ever cast a ballot. Several of these characteristics are positive attributes, not negative. Nobody thinks that Trump is a savior but they think he is good for the world. Above all, with Trump, it is NOT business as usual.


One of the main reasons many people support Trump is because he is against wars that have been raging in the middle east for over 20 years. Politicians on both sides constantly find reasons to keep these wars going.
Trump support freedom for people in every way possible, freedom of speech, freedom of movement, freedom from censorship etc.
The citizens of the USA were told that they would never see a growth rate above 3 percent. They called it the new normal. He proved that they were lying.
People were sarcastically told that Trump would need a magic wand to create jobs especially manufacturing jobs. He either had a wand or proved that they were lying.
Trump created an economy pre-COVID with historically low unemployment rates for blacks, Latinos, women.
Small business ownership by minorities increased by almost 400% prior to Covid restrictions decimating the economy.
Trump is in favor of robust immigration but legal immigration. Both parties caused the immigration problem and both parties refused to fix it. A wall was the only solution available.
Americans watched in horror as politicians negotiated horrible trade deals around the world. The Chinese Trade deals were disastrous and NAFTA and CAFTA equally bad. We were told by politicians that they would be good for the country. Then Americans watched as millions upon millions of jobs moved to China, Mexico, and elsewhere around the world.
Americans watched as Obama shipped $150 Billion dollars to Iran in two unmarked military airplanes. No comment needed
Americans watched in horror as Obama signed a nuclear deal with the Iranians which gave them a clear path to nuclear weapons after 10 years. Even his own party and the media were outraged when it happened.
Trump promised that he would take on the terrorist and he has. People understand he will never get rid of them but he has destroyed their power base and diminished their numbers.
Trump removed the USA from the Paris Climate Accord that has been deemed a dismal failure even by the UN.
He is not afraid to take on the mainstream media who have been delivering untruthful news for many years. I am sure you know but the reason he uses Twitter is to bypass the media and speak directly to the public.


There are many other reasons that people support Trump and these are just a few that come to mind but I don't think we are ever going to go back to business as usual. Politicians have wondered for a long time how far they could push the silent majority before they would speak up and they have found out.

Thanks for your reply,

I'll give you my opinion on the points you raised:

First of all,



his wealth gives him some immunity from what many politicians want which is power and wealth.


Even if he is a billionaire, it doesn't mean that he doesn't have to work extra hard to keep his wealth and not lose it. The more money you have, the easier it is to fail (see all his bankruptcies and all the huge loans he has and cannot currently pay off - see Deutsche Bank issue)

Also, he didn't act this way during his 4 years in office with his multiple conflicts of interest - government officials and special interest groups being hosted at trump hotels and his golf clubs. Overcharging the secret service and officials for their stay at his properties. Having Qatari, Kuweiti and Saudi delegations repeatedly organize events at his hotels, placing huge amounts of money in his pockets. Basically, they bought his influence with direct payments.

Remember the time he kept pushing to hold the G7 summit at a Trump resort?
"Legal experts debated whether hosting the G7 at a Trump-owned property would violate the Constitution's emoluments clauses."
Eventually, after all the criticism, he had to back down and host it at Camp David.

If you would really care about being "different" than all the swamp creatures, you would try do divest from your companies and not link ANY state activity with your business.

But he did exactly the opposite.