Trump is NOT the answer

[AutumnW]

I just wanted to create this thread for those who are completely opposed to the status quo but who DON'T think that Trump is the answer.

The swamp has been restocked, not drained and the real 'winner' of the election was Goldman Sachs.

[dim]

Until we mature enough to see the problem was always the virus of corruption inside us,
will always either blame or finding hope in the outside world.
So few ready to admit there's dirt in us, the darkness within. We usually blame others for the woes of the world.
And so it's sort of "natural" to try to find hope whenever you can, even in Trump, until we eventually get a nice disillusionment from this one also,
and we go like "this one didn't work out either" and on to the next "outer" thing/opportunity/person/whatever.
Until we exhaust all, everything, and all it remains is us ourselves bare, naked without skin in the wind
and when nothing works we forced to look where we've been avoiding for so long, inside.

Until then we must taste everything outside first, it's necessary. A required course.

[onawah]

William Engdahl | What is Trump’s True Agenda? | Nov. 30, 2016
(Borrowed from Helvitic's thread: )

Source: jaytaylormedia.com, williamengdahl.com

WEe5Q0NxKsE

William Engdahl says he believes Trump’s true agenda is to destroy China, Iran and Russia as America’s ruling elite move a one world government, just another actor for the elite, and Jesuit trained at that... -jaytaylormedia.com

[Helene West]

I just wanted to create this thread for those who are completely opposed to the status quo but who DON'T think that Trump is the answer.

The swamp has been restocked, not drained and the real 'winner' of the election was Goldman Sachs.

Thanks for this thread Autumn.
What you said is correct. It's surprising to me to hear normally intelligent alt radio hosts taking him so seriously. At least wait and see before you start with the compliments!

I got a bad vibe when I saw the new Time magazine cover. Trump's back is to us. I think the ruling class is into symbols and I don't believe that pose was an accident. I wonder if the message is - he's turned his back on us?

And the word 'Divided' in their 'Divided States of America'... Many of us have been voicing that sentiment or reading it for awhile now but this is like the ruling class is responding to our thoughts and fears with their byline by saying to us - "You better bloody believe we mean to divide you, we're succeeding and we're not finished". They are mocking us.
It remains to be seen how the anti-establishment candidate reverses everything he said to his constituency. It remains to be seen what kind of painful awakening that will be. People will be screaming "Suckers" from out their windows...
This could get scary besides disheartening. Glad I found some good company to ride things out with this forum...

[AutumnW]

Dim, you make a good point. Trump may turn out to be shadow work, for some. But for many others, a vote for Trump represented redeeming features of their personalities. This btw, is the defining feature of an interpersonal relationship with a psychopath. They take advantage of their target's best qualities, manipulate them, betray them and then discard them.

He and his minions manipulated their way in. After inauguration, it will be gloves off.

[AutumnW]

Hi Onawah,

Will listen later but just want to comment on what you wrote with regards the broadcast you posted. Trump (Goldman Sachs) clearly wants to go after Iran, reimpose sanctions etc... This makes ZERO sense, if they want to normalize relations with Russia -- his other stated goal. Iran and Russia are strong allies.

However, if they want to f*** China up badly, they will go after China's current source of petroleum, which happens to be Iran. And note that Bob Dole encouraged Trump, post election, to call Taiwan first, before mainland China. Hmmm...more than a breach of etiquette.

China is a MUCH bigger threat to the U.S, in terms of primacy of power, than Russia. However, what China and Russia have together, if the U.S. is unsuccessful in driving a wedge between them, is tremendous geopolitical synergy.

So I can see Trump and his war machinery turning on Russia too, if they feel that is necessary.

I don't think anybody can even imagine what this band of banksters and mobsters are capable of and how willing they will be to throw anybody under a bus who gets in their way.

[onawah]

Actually, I was just quoting what was on the site I linked to.
I have no idea what is going on on those international levels, but I have little doubt that Trump is a psychopath and also a tool of the controllers though they seem to be playing their hand more craftily than usual...
I can't imagine they would ever have permitted him to run if that weren't the case.
To think that he could escape their control just because he has money doesn't seem sensible to me.

Hi Onawah,

Will listen later but just want to comment on what you wrote with regards the broadcast you posted. Trump (Goldman Sachs) clearly wants to go after Iran, reimpose sanctions etc... This makes ZERO sense, if they want to normalize relations with Russia -- his other stated goal. Iran and Russia are strong allies.

[KiwiElf]

Then, who or what IS the answer?

[AutumnW]

Hi Helene,

I totally agree-- with one small difference. I think the media is primarily CIA and was backing Hillary.(I think??) Their portrayal of Trump on the cover, wasn't mocking but expressing disgust with Trump and that part of the deep state that supported him.

Note too, the placement of the M, in TIME, just over his head, like horns! :jaw:

[Rocky_Shorz]

CEO of Exxon as Secretary of State?

Well at least it won't be a secret any more that all of our wars are over oil, and Opium

Oil exec head of Energy Department...

Looks like Clean Energy is back to Science fiction

[AutumnW]

Then, who or what IS the answer?

Most of us haven't even formulated the right questions yet. The answers, might not make apparent sense, even if we are lucky enough to stumble on them.

[The Freedom Train]

then, who or what is the answer?

love, love, love.

[Helene West]

Hi Helene,

I totally agree-- with one small difference. I think the media is primarily CIA and was backing Hillary.(I think??) Their portrayal of Trump on the cover, wasn't mocking but expressing disgust with Trump and that part of the deep state that supported him.

Note too, the placement of the M, in TIME, just over his head, like horns! :jaw:

Hi Autumn
I feel there was a message to us. They didn't pose him with the chair's back to us and him turning around to look at us with a slight smirk on his face to make fun of him, that wouldn't make sense. The message is to us and his constituents are being told - 'I'm turning my back on you'.

As far as the CIA, they are the private police force of the ruling class who either changed their minds on installing Clinton when she showed she was more sick than was previously thought or they always intended to pull a bait and switch. Whichever, the CIA will also do what it is told.
The horns thing is apparently what they want most to concentrate on as many in media have taken that ball and are running with it. This reinforces the emphasis on a personality which is what they want most to concentrate on. Those who research the elites seem to have this consensus that those in power are into the occult and in the pseudo-morality of the occult they give warnings about their intentions for those who are aware. If we continue to stay in Rush Limbaugh or Chris Matthews mentality and concentrate on the demon trump, we won't see the real message.

I think we (the citizenry) were given 2 messages with that cover - that the ruling class is not finished dividing the citizenry and that trump will turn his back on most of what he said (not all of what he said because the chair was 3/4 turned around, it could have been facing against us completely but was not.)

It's almost all irrelevant anyhow since most brains have been so successfully deleted of class consciousness that we will never successfully go against those who rule. In 4 years it will be about ousting the demon trump, the Dems will probably get control again and everything will be about fighting racism, racism, sexism, etc that the ruling class will be even more protected with them...
And best of all, many in the Alt media are saying things like The Elites days are numbered, the oligarchy is losing control, etc. Hah, lol, 'silly rabbits, trix (tricks) are for kids'....

[meeradas]

Then, who or what IS the answer?

It's right here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?94907-Trump-is-NOT-the-answer&p=1119397&viewfull=1#post1119397), in post No. 2 of this thread.

[Helene West]

Until we exhaust all, everything, and all it remains is us ourselves bare, naked without skin in the wind
and when nothing works we forced to look where we've been avoiding for so long, inside.

Until then we must taste everything outside first, it's necessary. A required course.

This reminds me of something the High Sparrow in Game of Thrones would say...

[mgray]

Thanks for the Tthead. I will leave you with the thought that perhaps Trump is the answer to people who have a problem twith the socialistic principles of the Obama presidency.

It seems to be a global euphonium.

[KiwiElf]

Then, who or what IS the answer?

It's right here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?94907-Trump-is-NOT-the-answer&p=1119397&viewfull=1#post1119397), in post No. 2 of this thread.

It is AN answer (a very good one!) - and how do you suggest that be implemented? What's the goal (s) (or outcome), the "plan" and the action to follow?

[sunwings]

Hi Helene,

I totally agree-- with one small difference. I think the media is primarily CIA and was backing Hillary.(I think??) Their portrayal of Trump on the cover, wasn't mocking but expressing disgust with Trump and that part of the deep state that supported him.

Note too, the placement of the M, in TIME, just over his head, like horns! :jaw:

Yes you are right!

http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/58480214e02ba71b008b7d2f-1536/czeur4ixuaaryr.jpg

[littleOne]

I agree with you Dim, as the french diplomat and philosopher Joseph de Maistre said "Every country gets the government it deserves"

[transiten]

Until we mature enough to see the problem was always the virus of corruption inside us,
will always either blame or finding hope in the outside world.
So few ready to admit there's dirt in us, the darkness within. We usually blame others for the woes of the world.
And so it's sort of "natural" to try to find hope whenever you can, even in Trump, until we eventually get a nice disillusionment from this one also,
and we go like "this one didn't work out either" and on to the next "outer" thing/opportunity/person/whatever.
Until we exhaust all, everything, and all it remains is us ourselves bare, naked without skin in the wind
and when nothing works we forced to look where we've been avoiding for so long, inside.

Until then we must taste everything outside first, it's necessary. A required course.

I think we must hold two concepts in our mind at the same time. As I agree with yours dim - IMO- we must also call a lie a lie and evil evil, otherwise we will risk ending up in some wishy washy flower power passive state of mind:hippie:

[Lifebringer]

Two stale boxes of cookies, coming thru elections. We shoulda voted Bernie.:cocktail:

[Baby Steps]

top down is never the answer

Trump made it because he told more truths than others, so it was a bottom up process

but if you parachute a slightly more truthful person into a swamp of corruption, that, in itself is not a solution.

it may be at best a pause or reformulation of the war mongering.

much much more bottom up action is needed.

we are currently closer to midnight than we were during the Cuban missile crisis, and our leaders lack the will to step back

they must be made to, by public pressure

[Chester]

Then, who or what IS the answer?

It's right here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?94907-Trump-is-NOT-the-answer&p=1119397&viewfull=1#post1119397), in post No. 2 of this thread.

It is AN answer (a very good one!) - and how do you suggest that be implemented? What's the goal (s) (or outcome), the "plan" and the action to follow?

Each of us does their own work on "self." Some might call this "shadow work." This is my preferred term.

To the degree each of us does that (in whatever direction that work unfolds) the shared reality reflects the results back to us.


On another note...

Aqw8v1ILB2g

[Iloveyou]

Half a year ago I was thinking (from my European standpoint): What are they talking about (re the two candidates)? Obviously it's only a choice between pest and cholera. Then, roughly following the election campaign and the discussions, an analogy occured to me: Trump as President can be seen like just one more breathe (gasp) for a person who struggles to survive on the open sea. The other choice would have meant drowning immediately.

That's where so many people, who I meet on a daily basis, stand (knowingly or not): On the edge (to use a different picture), struggling to survive energetically and spiritually. Many only clinging to a cliff with their fingertips.

That's also the point, where the concept of different timelines comes into play, and the imperative to choose.

Insofar I think people made a good choice (way beyond only accepting the lesser evil).

edit: @#25: thank you and you're very welcome, Sam Hunter :)

[Chester]

Half a year ago I was thinking (from my European standpoint): What are they talking about (re the two candidates)? Obviously it's only a choice between pest and cholera. Then, roughly following the election campaign and the discussions, an analogy occured to me: Trump as President can be seen like just one more breathe (gasp) for a person who struggles to survive on the open sea. The other choice would have meant drowning immediately.

That's where so many people, who I meet on a daily basis, stand (knowingly or not): On the edge (to use a different picture), struggling to survive energetically and spiritually. Many only clinging to a cliff with their fingertips.

That's also the point, where the concept of different timelines comes into play, and the imperative to choose.

Insofar I think people made a good choice (way beyond only accepting the lesser evil).

Finally!

Thank you for this post. I have been struggling to find the words to describe how I felt and WoW!, Iloveyou... you nailed it.

Especially with this point -


Trump as President can be seen like just one more breathe (gasp) for a person who struggles to survive on the open sea. The other choice would have meant drowning immediately.

That is exactly how I saw it, felt it to be and feared would become true in the worst way if the alternative choice had "won."

With your permission, I am going to print this (with credit to you) and put a copy on my wall and when people ask me why I voted for Trump, I will point to your post text.

[Rich]

Then, who or what IS the answer?

It's right here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?94907-Trump-is-NOT-the-answer&p=1119397&viewfull=1#post1119397), in post No. 2 of this thread.

It is AN answer (a very good one!) - and how do you suggest that be implemented? What's the goal (s) (or outcome), the "plan" and the action to follow?
Trump is a reflection of our consciousness, so all we have to do is change our own minds.

[Chester]

Then, who or what IS the answer?

It's right here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?94907-Trump-is-NOT-the-answer&p=1119397&viewfull=1#post1119397), in post No. 2 of this thread.

It is AN answer (a very good one!) - and how do you suggest that be implemented? What's the goal (s) (or outcome), the "plan" and the action to follow?
Trump is a reflection of our consciousness, so all we have to do is change our own minds.

And along these same lines, Trump's election might be the reflection of changed minds.

[Truthster013]

I just wanted to create this thread for those who are completely opposed to the status quo but who DON'T think that Trump is the answer.

The swamp has been restocked, not drained and the real 'winner' of the election was Goldman Sachs.

In my opinion NO politician is the answer. The real problem for us in America is that the average citizen still believes who gets elected president makes a difference. I am frustrated when I hear both sides talking like if their candidate loses that America will be destroyed. American society is corrupt and is being destroyed because we can't stop thinking about what's in it for us. We are experiencing the full wrath of capitalism at it's best. The "system" only cares about making money. It does not care about 'doing the right thing'. Every politician, even those who go into office thinking they are going to change that culture, quickly find that this is just the way things are done. I wish more people would stop thinking a politician has ANYTHING to do with our future. Our culture has to change and no one person is going to do that.

[onawah]

The primaries were when the recount should have been demanded. Though Truthster013 is right, it can make a bit of difference, I think, if the person in the Oval Office at least doesn't make us want to hurl:yuck: whenever we see their face:evil:.

Two stale boxes of cookies, coming thru elections. We shoulda voted Bernie.:cocktail:

[AutumnW]

Thanks for the Tthead. I will leave you with the thought that perhaps Trump is the answer to people who have a problem twith the socialistic principles of the Obama presidency.

It seems to be a global euphonium.

The 'socialistic' principals of Obama? If you are referring to Obamacare or Abominable Care, I agree wholeheartedly. But technically speaking, this was NOT a failure of socialism but a hybrid monster more clearly defined as a 'PPT'.

Public Private Partnerships are notoriously vulnerable to corruption. The govt will underwrite projects that profit the private sector, while having the tax payer, and/or in this case the customer, absorb the risk and a disproportionate share of the cost.

My suspicions are Trump will not dismantle it to any appreciable degree as it is a perfect example of private predatory expansion into what should be the non-profit public sphere.

The take over of areas of the economy that were once either highly regulated or publicly held has been internationally rampant. The governments, installed with campaign money from the predatory sector usually 'explains' that the private sector will introduce lower prices through efficiencies of scale and private oversight.

What happens, as many in Britain can attest to, is sky high electrical costs, as a consequence.

When republican pressure led to the dismissal of the universal option in the medical insurance plan, I knew, based on experience, the American people were in for huge problems.

The U.S needs to keep it's military highly efficient, effective and small. They need to refrain from military adventurism. They need to reduce military spending to 10% of their budget, instead of the current 60% and start to turn some of those dollars into a system that honours life and health and peace.

Americans should be pummelled with massage therapy and their military should stop pummelling foreigners with heavy artillery.

[AutumnW]

Hi Helene,

I totally agree-- with one small difference. I think the media is primarily CIA and was backing Hillary.(I think??) Their portrayal of Trump on the cover, wasn't mocking but expressing disgust with Trump and that part of the deep state that supported him.

Note too, the placement of the M, in TIME, just over his head, like horns! :jaw:

Hi Autumn
I feel there was a message to us. They didn't pose him with the chair's back to us and him turning around to look at us with a slight smirk on his face to make fun of him, that wouldn't make sense. The message is to us and his constituents are being told - 'I'm turning my back on you'.

As far as the CIA, they are the private police force of the ruling class who either changed their minds on installing Clinton when she showed she was more sick than was previously thought or they always intended to pull a bait and switch. Whichever, the CIA will also do what it is told.
The horns thing is apparently what they want most to concentrate on as many in media have taken that ball and are running with it. This reinforces the emphasis on a personality which is what they want most to concentrate on. Those who research the elites seem to have this consensus that those in power are into the occult and in the pseudo-morality of the occult they give warnings about their intentions for those who are aware. If we continue to stay in Rush Limbaugh or Chris Matthews mentality and concentrate on the demon trump, we won't see the real message.

I think we (the citizenry) were given 2 messages with that cover - that the ruling class is not finished dividing the citizenry and that trump will turn his back on most of what he said (not all of what he said because the chair was 3/4 turned around, it could have been facing against us completely but was not.)

It's almost all irrelevant anyhow since most brains have been so successfully deleted of class consciousness that we will never successfully go against those who rule. In 4 years it will be about ousting the demon trump, the Dems will probably get control again and everything will be about fighting racism, racism, sexism, etc that the ruling class will be even more protected with them...
And best of all, many in the Alt media are saying things like The Elites days are numbered, the oligarchy is losing control, etc. Hah, lol, 'silly rabbits, trix (tricks) are for kids'....

Your symbolism is bang on. Agreed. I just don't think that mainstream media necessarily all back this guy. So the way he is presented isn't mocking Americans, but warning them.

The CIA, take orders from nobody. They are both publicly funded and self funding through front companies. ( see book, 'The Culture Cold War.') The congressional oversight committee created to keep tabs on them is prohibited from knowing how much money they spend in a given year. They hide behind the shield of 'national security' to disguise their true scope, their activities.

An interesting article came out in a respectable paper a while back. Think it might have been The Guardian, describing how fractured American policy had become in Syria, with the military fighting ISIS, and the CIA supporting them!

It is probably best to imagine the Deep State as being governed by war lords or mob bosses with their own agendas, some of which dovetail and others do not. Some are more beholden to the executive branch and others more split off.

The divisions you have emphasized are not just on the surface, they go deep into the covert world.

The U.S is becoming, like many third world nations, increasingly 'mobbed up.'

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Notice again how fast a discussion of Trump is interjected with how terrible Obama or Hillary is. It's almost as if some people are afraid to take a realistic and balanced look at the President Elect. The same probably would have happened if Hillary had been elected.

I think it is obvious to anyone who maintains an objective point of view that we are witnessing willful self-delusion. It is the maintenance and defense of a fragile reality model. Those who engage in this behavior are often indistinguishable from those they rant against. And, most importantly, are easily controlled by those who wish to exert control. In fact, they are the first to fall in line with the agenda being pushed.

I needed to say my peace on this. Thank you for reading.

To take it a step further into the realm of solution- Tune into your body. It will tell you what you need to know. It will tell you where you are being manipulated. Notice your breath. Where is there tension? Where is the difference between reaction and response? Do you feel emotion in response to information? Where is it in your body? Stay with it. Don't try to change it. Sit with it. Stay with it and breathe until it dissolves. This is the way.

[AutumnW]

Then, who or what IS the answer?

It's right here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?94907-Trump-is-NOT-the-answer&p=1119397&viewfull=1#post1119397), in post No. 2 of this thread.

It is AN answer (a very good one!) - and how do you suggest that be implemented? What's the goal (s) (or outcome), the "plan" and the action to follow?

Each of us does their own work on "self." Some might call this "shadow work." This is my preferred term.

To the degree each of us does that (in whatever direction that work unfolds) the shared reality reflects the results back to us.


On another note...

Aqw8v1ILB2g

Sam, this is only true, up to a point. It places far too much responsibility for changing the greater political shadow, on people who are doing their best already and who know themselves fairly well. The greater political shadow has to be vanquished, IMHO, by various means, not the least of which is externally imposed force. As Jesus overturned the tables of the money changers, in the temple, in a fit of temper.

Can you see Trump, with his Goldman Sachs cabinet, doing this? He hasn't overturned the tables, he has reinforced them so they can't tip over. And now he is sitting at those same tables, with the money changers to 'deal.'

Some of the best shadow work we do is to abandon the left/right, freedom loving/ freedom hating dichotomies that plague the mind and that are so susceptible to propaganda.

[ghostrider]

Then, who or what IS the answer? The answer is responsibility for self , thoughts, feelings and actions are not determined by who sits in the big chair miles away ... people always want change but want someone else to do it ... its up to each of us... thinking for ourselves , treating others how we want treated etc ...

[genevieve]

Too many of us in America still believe that being a citizen of the U.S. is what we are and what we're supposed to be.

Those of us born on the soil of one of the American states are American State Nationals. And then we sign up or get signed up as U.S. citizens. After that, we're subject to the federal government corporation's rules.

For more info on how this monstrous game came into being and how we're being used as fodder, check out http://annavonreitz.com/

Number 58, "The specific details of how you were defrauded," is a summary worth reading.


Peace Love Joy & Harmony,
genevieve

[DeDukshyn]

Until we exhaust all, everything, and all it remains is us ourselves bare, naked without skin in the wind
and when nothing works we forced to look where we've been avoiding for so long, inside.

Until then we must taste everything outside first, it's necessary. A required course.

This reminds me of something the High Sparrow in Game of Thrones would say...

Are you saying you judge the appropriateness or accuracy of words, based on judgments of a speaker? Any person with any intentions can say anything; words and concepts are not owned by the people who speak them, nor can their value or quality be determined by the speaker who speaks them. If a Satanist reads the Bible out loud, is now the Bible a work of Satan? Artificially joining the words to a speaker for judgement is like judging a person by their dress size. Inappropriate.

[AutumnW]

Then, who or what IS the answer? The answer is responsibility for self , thoughts, feelings and actions are not determined by who sits in the big chair miles away ... people always want change but want someone else to do it ... its up to each of us... thinking for ourselves , treating others how we want treated etc ...

There are two ideologies these days that strike me as fundamentalist, in nature. One is the one you espouse regarding the primacy of the individual over all circumstances, which lies at the heart of right wing libertarianism. Accordingly, all forces arrayed against the individual can be overcome and if they are not -- his or her fault. This is illogical.

The other ideology is the one that states that the individual is always and only a victim of circumstances and other people. They are completely unable to exercise freedom of choice...ever. Extreme versions of these ideas led to the 'safe space' movement. Again, illogical.

Move beyond black and white thinking and understand that those at the apex of power control us through these ridiculous perversions of thinking.

[Helene West]

Until we exhaust all, everything, and all it remains is us ourselves bare, naked without skin in the wind
and when nothing works we forced to look where we've been avoiding for so long, inside.

Until then we must taste everything outside first, it's necessary. A required course.

This reminds me of something the High Sparrow in Game of Thrones would say...

Are you saying you judge the appropriateness or accuracy of words, based on judgments of a speaker? Any person with any intentions can say anything; words and concepts are not owned by the people who speak them, nor can their value or quality be determined by the speaker who speaks them. If a Satanist reads the Bible out loud, is now the Bible a work of Satan? Artificially joining the words to a speaker for judgement is like judging a person by their dress size. Inappropriate.

It was a casual, humorous reaction to Dim's post. Sorry you got so deep and heavy about it.

[East Sun]

Those who are criticizing Trump even before he is in the White House should do some homework as to what we have narrowly missed. Whew, this may be due to a shift to
a positive time line or enough people who have woken up to the reality of our situation in the universe.

No one knows what Trump will or will not do, but we do know what the criminals of the past have done, so we can make sure that we never let 'them' try it again.
They are out, period.

Welcome to the new world....at long last.
Now we know and will be watching.

[ghostrider]

The unknown result of negative thinking is that it affects reality , the environment, the planet, each other, the future , and even the weather ... the thinking patterns of humans is like an electromagnetic wave , reaching out in all directions, from human to human, planet to planet, across the universe... our survival is tied to the way we think , past cultures go extinct by their thought patterns, doing things as a result of wrong thinking leads to wrong actions and the law of causality is set in motion... as long as a king, or governor, messiah is thought to be the answer, we will stumble in the dark ... we must be the star in our own lives ... just sayin , personal responsibility is the key to avoiding repeating the past...

[Helene West]

Two stale boxes of cookies, coming thru elections. We shoulda voted Bernie.:cocktail:

Bernie was probably the most hurtful of all. I believe he was part of the scam. His function was to corral the millenniums, manage & funnel their organized energy and ultimately say to them - hey, we fought a good fight but it's now time to come into the system - vote Hillary.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Bernie was probably the most hurtful of all. I believe he was part of the scam. His function was to corral the millenniums, manage & funnel their organized energy and ultimately say to them - hey, we fought a good fight but it's now time to come into the system - vote Hillary.

That's just ridiculous. The contrary evidence is overwhelming. No, I'm not going to spell it out for you. You can take the time to think it through yourself.

[onawah]

I'm very willing to give Trump the benefit of the doubt, but what will happen is obviously going to depend a lot on who he chooses to surround himself with, and so far, I'm not very encouraged.
Those who are criticizing Trump even before he is in the White House should do some homework as to what we have narrowly missed. Whew, this may be due to a shift to
a positive time line or enough people who have woken up to the reality of our situation in the universe.

No one knows what Trump will or will not do, but we do know what the criminals of the past have done, so we can make sure that we never let 'them' try it again.
They are out, period.

Welcome to the new world....at long last.
Now we know and will be watching.

[Helene West]

Bernie was probably the most hurtful of all. I believe he was part of the scam. His function was to corral the millenniums, manage & funnel their organized energy and ultimately say to them - hey, we fought a good fight but it's now time to come into the system - vote Hillary.

That's just ridiculous. The contrary evidence is overwhelming. No, I'm not going to spell it out for you. You can take the time to think it through yourself.

you're entitled to think what you want.
You want to believe Sanders is some shining beacon above reproach, him and his 'socialist' wife with her capitalist six figure salary who ran a new england college into the ground through mismanagement, fine.
He mysteriously didn't fight when he could have and should have and probably would have won if he had. But that was not going to happen because him winning was not part of the plan...
you attack the 'true believers' of the trump constituency but every group has their true believers what else is new? Many voted for trump not liking him at all, holding their nose at the polls because they hated or feared clinton more. Sanders has his 'true believers' of which you are free to be a believer all you want...
Our alphabet disinformation agencies do not exempt our favorite people or personal icons from their instructions or agendas. Our lives are way more scripted than we want to entertain.

[TargeT]

Notice again how fast a discussion of Trump is interjected with how terrible Obama or Hillary is. .

yeah, we should compare him to.. aliens?

humans are pattern comparison machines... how is this not an obvious comparison?


I agree there is a lot of delusion going on, all around; and your post is begging for a mirror. ;)


Funny how these old hang ups... hang us up, even when we have, intellectually at least, disavowed the dual party system.

[uzn]

Well and I thought Sauron was Person of the Year.
http://i.imgur.com/fzD5zQ8.jpg

[waves]

AND HILLARY SURE WASN'T THE ANSWER!! What's with these threads titles continuing to complain and whine about Trump as if implying the wrong person got elected....yet completely in denial about the mountains of evidence that Hillary was the most evil, criminal, lying, sold out, paedophilic psychopath to ever run for president.

The 'other answer' was a SURE bet of continuing down this same failed, corrupt path of descent into an orwellian society, the further destruction of the constitution, the rich getting richer, the support of big pharma, GMOs, big corps, big banks, globalism, wars, deteriorating infrastructure etc.. What are you saying with this title? Sounds like more fishing for sour grapes to justify your disdain for Trump supporters - with the same smug tone I still see 100x a day. Trump supporters are NOT saying he's got 'all the answers'. We're saying he's saying the right things... none of which Hillary said... and we are relieved out of our minds that a big wrench has been thrown into the downward spiral that would have continued with Hillary.

I love that the msm who hates him doesn't realize how much they're going to help him by scrutinizing his every move and holding him to his word like they never did for any other president. I predict Trump's ego won't be able to stand not 'winning' and he will love dissolving all their attempts to say he didn't deliver what he promised.

[Helene West]

[QUOTE=Helene West;1119418][QUOTE=AutumnW;1119411]Hi Helene,

The CIA, take orders from nobody. '

I guess we'll agree to disagree on a few points. To say CIA take orders from nobody would make them rulers. Those who own the gold and own the ability to print money, that's who rules.
I doubt those who rule give any more consideration to the average CIA agent than a town mayor gives to the average uniformed police officer no matter what side action they are involved with. I believe the job of the CIA is to protect the interests of the ruling class, the international corporate oligarchy.
But your main point - that trump is not the answer, most of us I think will agree with.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

you're entitled to think what you want.
You want to believe Sanders is some shining beacon above reproach, him and his 'socialist' wife with her capitalist six figure salary who ran a new england college into the ground through mismanagement, fine.


Please do not put words in my mouth or state what my position is on any subject. You clearly do not know me well enough to be qualified to do so.



He mysteriously didn't fight when he could have and should have and probably would have won if he had. But that was not going to happen because him winning was not part of the plan...

And there's clearly no possible other explanation for that.



you attack the 'true believers' of the trump constituency

I try to attack ideas, not people.


Sanders has his 'true believers' of which you are free to be a believer all you want...

Please do not put words in my mouth or state what my position is on any subject. You clearly do not know me well enough to be qualified to do so.

[East Sun]

the answer to what?.... remember Obama's change.....what change? I wanted to ask? yes we can....What? Did anyone ask? Do people think beyond a politician's stupid manipulation of the gullible.
I hope people learned from that.

were the journalists not allowed to be heard or did they not ask? what change. Obama? yes we can WHAT, Obama?

Trump is not the answer to what?
Time will tell if he is the answer anything. Maybe yes, maybe no.

But he is Better by far than anything else....

[amor]

Dear Autumn: I am proud of you. Your Genes are showing.

[turiya]

Yes, Trump is the answer... How quickly one forgets... Trump answers to the Russians...

I know because the MSM said its so...


http://cdn-img.easylogo.cn/gif/139/139331.gif
Former CIA chief:
Trump is Russia’s useful fool (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/former-cia-chief-trump-is-russias-useful-fool/2016/11/03/cda42ffe-a1d5-11e6-8d63-3e0a660f1f04_story.html?utm_term=.bbd8d4efbde0)
Washington Post:

...the American presidential candidate routinely comes to the defense of his Russian soul mate. In the face of a high-confidence judgment of the U.S. intelligence community that Russia hacked the Democratic National Committee and then weaponized embarrassing emails to sow confusion here, the man who would be president has declared: “Our country has no idea,” “I don’t think anybody knows it was Russia that broke into the DNC. . . . It could also be lots of other people” and “They always blame Russia.” -- SOURCE (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/former-cia-chief-trump-is-russias-useful-fool/2016/11/03/cda42ffe-a1d5-11e6-8d63-3e0a660f1f04_story.html?utm_term=.26b2e2fc868c)


Trump, Clinton spar over DNC hacks
(Published on Oct 19, 2016)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChJNrz8RfwA

http://www.gaystarnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Putin_Donald_Trump_Shirtless.jpg

[DeDukshyn]

Until we exhaust all, everything, and all it remains is us ourselves bare, naked without skin in the wind
and when nothing works we forced to look where we've been avoiding for so long, inside.

Until then we must taste everything outside first, it's necessary. A required course.

This reminds me of something the High Sparrow in Game of Thrones would say...

Are you saying you judge the appropriateness or accuracy of words, based on judgments of a speaker? Any person with any intentions can say anything; words and concepts are not owned by the people who speak them, nor can their value or quality be determined by the speaker who speaks them. If a Satanist reads the Bible out loud, is now the Bible a work of Satan? Artificially joining the words to a speaker for judgement is like judging a person by their dress size. Inappropriate.

It was a casual, humorous reaction to Dim's post. Sorry you got so deep and heavy about it.

lol, I debated whether I should have added a small disclaimer at the end -- indicating that it does indeed sound something like the high sparrow would say ... I guess had I done so you would've also seen my true intention ... perhaps equally not obvious in both.

[turiya]

Yes, Trump is the answer... How quickly one forgets... Trump answers to the Russians...

I know because the MSM said its so...


http://cdn-img.easylogo.cn/gif/139/139331.gif
Former CIA chief:
Trump is Russia’s useful fool (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/former-cia-chief-trump-is-russias-useful-fool/2016/11/03/cda42ffe-a1d5-11e6-8d63-3e0a660f1f04_story.html?utm_term=.bbd8d4efbde0)
Washington Post:

...the American presidential candidate routinely comes to the defense of his Russian soul mate. In the face of a high-confidence judgment of the U.S. intelligence community that Russia hacked the Democratic National Committee and then weaponized embarrassing emails to sow confusion here, the man who would be president has declared: “Our country has no idea,” “I don’t think anybody knows it was Russia that broke into the DNC. . . . It could also be lots of other people” and “They always blame Russia.” -- SOURCE (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/former-cia-chief-trump-is-russias-useful-fool/2016/11/03/cda42ffe-a1d5-11e6-8d63-3e0a660f1f04_story.html?utm_term=.26b2e2fc868c)


Trump, Clinton spar over DNC hacks
(Published on Oct 19, 2016)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChJNrz8RfwA

http://www.gaystarnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Putin_Donald_Trump_Shirtless.jpg

And, This is WHY Putin Envies Trump...


https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-XOJN7BfZbJs/WEs8pf4wnNI/AAAAAAAA7RA/DNm05I6Yke44ulqR7JV1Gkc1-qwiBZDlwCLcB/s1600/putin%2Benvies%2Btrump.jpg

[AutumnW]

[QUOTE=Helene West;1119418][QUOTE=AutumnW;1119411]Hi Helene,

The CIA, take orders from nobody. '

I guess we'll agree to disagree on a few points. To say CIA take orders from nobody would make them rulers. Those who own the gold and own the ability to print money, that's who rules.
I doubt those who rule give any more consideration to the average CIA agent than a town mayor gives to the average uniformed police officer no matter what side action they are involved with. I believe the job of the CIA is to protect the interests of the ruling class, the international corporate oligarchy.
But your main point - that trump is not the answer, most of us I think will agree with.

Any powerful group, acting without congressional oversight, has tremendous power. They also provide the briefings to the executive branch about what is going on in the world, through their clandestine networks. This is how they control foreign policy. During the Sputnik era, they scared the U.S to death by exaggerating or outright lying about the 'superior' achievements of the Russians. They created the Cold War and then, after several decades, helped the KGB collapse Russia.

They rule through control of information and through a lack of accountability to any other group.

What might be happening currently, is factions within the FBI, using Trump as their frontman, are involved in a pitched battle with the CIA for more power of their own. I am not sure where the different military intelligence agencies fit in to the picture.

Certainly up until recently, the CIA, like the KGB had more influence and control over the U.S than any branch of government.

[AutumnW]

Turiya, just one small request. I don't know if others have this problem but when I try to open a thread with a number of large photos, my computer goes down! So please stick around but refrain from posting too many pics.

And I don't know who posted about people 'whining and complaining' on this thread-- but to that individual, I would simply request that you refrain from insulting people. I also want to point out that nobody on these threads, so far as I can see, support or approve of Hillary, in any way. So I am requesting that whoever you are, you quit beating that dead horse.

Thank you

[AutumnW]

Dear Autumn: I am proud of you. Your Genes are showing.

I think the proper word here would be 'admire,' not "am proud of." Being proud of someone suggests a familial or close friends type relationship. That being said, I understand that this was meant sarcastically.

Now the reference to my genes, could also use improvement. My genetic heritage is Northern European. I think what you are referencing though, is my citizenship, which is quite different. Let me know if I'm mistaken. You might be a long lost cousin or a hidden half brother. And you might have been referring to Sweden rather than Canada. Just don't know.

But let's get back to Trump now, shall we?

[Dennis Leahy]

Then, who or what IS the answer?
In a country that wants to do more than pretend to be "of the people, by the people, and for the people", the answer is "the people."

(I don't know the NZ election system, but I'll bet it is actually controlled by the status quo Elite, not by the people.) In the US, the Elite have complete control of elections, and the elections are completely rigged at least a year in advance - by the Elites pre-selecting EVERY viable candidate. US elections are very much a pseudo-reality TV show. As long as the Elite are allowed to pre-select the entire pool of candidates that they then filter, making some of the candidates viable through the mass media the same Elite own, and using the media to smother all candidates not chosen by the Elite, the Elite win every election.

The answer is citizens taking over the election system, transforming the system - especially to reject any candidate tied to the corporate Elite.

In a citizen-controlled, strictly publicly-funded, strictly non-partisan, candidates-vetted-to-have-no-corporate-ties election system, the seats of government would be filled with ordinary citizens, people we've never heard of, people who can actually relate to the vast majority of people in the nation, actual representatives of the people.

Well, that's my answer anyway.

[KiwiElf]

Great answer Dennis (and that would have been similar to mine too - gotta start somewhere and I believe the global movement to do just that has started, not just in the USA!)

Pointless exercise being in denial about it, trying to rewind time or worrying about things that haven't yet occurred (and may never)... IMO.

Our system is (was?) very much in the pocket of the "Elites" Dennis, but hey, ours has just made a sudden change too; at least you guys voted - our "leader" has just unexpectedly quit, (other threads talk about the possible reasons for that), so we don't really have a choice until the general election in a year. ;)

Cheers - KE

:focus:

[Helene West]

Then, who or what IS the answer?
In a country that wants to do more than pretend to be "of the people, by the people, and for the people", the answer is "the people."

(I don't know the NZ election system, but I'll bet it is actually controlled by the status quo Elite, not by the people.) In the US, the Elite have complete control of elections, and the elections are completely rigged at least a year in advance - by the Elites pre-selecting EVERY viable candidate. US elections are very much a pseudo-reality TV show. As long as the Elite are allowed to pre-select the entire pool of candidates that they then filter, making some of the candidates viable through the mass media the same Elite own, and using the media to smother all candidates not chosen by the Elite, the Elite win every election.

The answer is citizens taking over the election system, transforming the system - especially to reject any candidate tied to the corporate Elite.

In a citizen-controlled, strictly publicly-funded, strictly non-partisan, candidates-vetted-to-have-no-corporate-ties election system, the seats of government would be filled with ordinary citizens, people we've never heard of, people who can actually relate to the vast majority of people in the nation, actual representatives of the people.

Well, that's my answer anyway.

I agree but with the caveat that the citizens can't control much if they don't control the $$$. We have been serfs since 1913.
And we've been dancing around that fact ever since....

[The Freedom Train]

I agree but with the caveat that the citizens can't control much if they don't control the $$$. We have been serfs since 1913.
And we've been dancing around that fact ever since....

Only since 1913?

[TargeT]

I agree but with the caveat that the citizens can't control much if they don't control the $$$. We have been serfs since 1913.
And we've been dancing around that fact ever since....

Only since 1913?

From what I"ve read, all of recorded history... the only difference is the context of the control structure... the patterns are all the same.

[Fellow Aspirant]

Bernie was probably the most hurtful of all. I believe he was part of the scam. His function was to corral the millenniums, manage & funnel their organized energy and ultimately say to them - hey, we fought a good fight but it's now time to come into the system - vote Hillary.

That's just ridiculous. The contrary evidence is overwhelming. No, I'm not going to spell it out for you. You can take the time to think it through yourself.

I couldn't have said it better myself, Bill - I mean, Whisky. Such a wrongheaded and ignorant misreading of Bernie cannot be allowed to stand unchallenged. It's pure bladderdash. Oops, I mean, balderdash.

B.

[Fellow Aspirant]

Bernie was probably the most hurtful of all. I believe he was part of the scam. His function was to corral the millenniums, manage & funnel their organized energy and ultimately say to them - hey, we fought a good fight but it's now time to come into the system - vote Hillary.

That's just ridiculous. The contrary evidence is overwhelming. No, I'm not going to spell it out for you. You can take the time to think it through yourself.

you're entitled to think what you want.
You want to believe Sanders is some shining beacon above reproach, him and his 'socialist' wife with her capitalist six figure salary who ran a new england college into the ground through mismanagement, fine.
He mysteriously didn't fight when he could have and should have and probably would have won if he had. But that was not going to happen because him winning was not part of the plan...
you attack the 'true believers' of the trump constituency but every group has their true believers what else is new? Many voted for trump not liking him at all, holding their nose at the polls because they hated or feared clinton more. Sanders has his 'true believers' of which you are free to be a believer all you want...
Our alphabet disinformation agencies do not exempt our favorite people or personal icons from their instructions or agendas. Our lives are way more scripted than we want to entertain.

I believe Sanders is a good man with a conscience who fights against corporate greed and government misuse of power. I believe this because I have listened to him and read his words. It's really that simple: I take him at his word and I have no difficulty understanding his meaning.

Trump supporters are famous for lauding him for "telling it like it is" which is completely without merit. If you want to listen to a guy who REALLY "tells it like it is", watch THIS ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVS-itGeeEA


B.

[KiwiElf]

At the end of the day, there were only two choices: Trump or Clinton. NONE of the others were even remotely close so arguing the virtues of the others is pointless - they didn't win.

America made it's choice: TRUMP IS IT for the time being, whether you like it or not, and that has happened for a reason. With respect, DEAL WITH IT and move forward. No amount of chatter on this thread is going to change it. :)

[AutumnW]

Kiwi elf,

If you find people analyzing current affairs annoying, you are free to deal with it by attending other threads.

[KiwiElf]

Analysing or in denial? (...going on the title of your thread). And please don't make inaccurate assumptions about me Autumn - you don't know me from a bar of soap. :)

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Anyone on this thread telling others what they can and can't talk about is also ridiculous and I'm just ignoring them.




I believe Sanders is a good man with a conscience who fights against corporate greed and government misuse of power. I believe this because I have listened to him and read his words. It's really that simple: I take him at his word and I have no difficulty understanding his meaning.

The best politicians are charismatic and convincing. That's their job. Their words are much less important than their actions. When evaluating any person, look at where they invest their energy.

[AutumnW]

Kiwi elf--Well that was rather hasty. I created this thread with the express purpose of discussing Trump, (in the negative, obviously). It's fine if pro Trump people want to join in on the discussion, or argue, as long as they are not bossy rude.

Because that would be a YUGE mistake. I want to make this thread GREAT again! :ROFL:

[TargeT]

Bernie was probably the most hurtful of all. I believe he was part of the scam. His function was to corral the millenniums, manage & funnel their organized energy and ultimately say to them - hey, we fought a good fight but it's now time to come into the system - vote Hillary.

That's just ridiculous. The contrary evidence is overwhelming. No, I'm not going to spell it out for you. You can take the time to think it through yourself.

I couldn't have said it better myself, Bill - I mean, Whisky. Such a wrongheaded and ignorant misreading of Bernie cannot be allowed to stand unchallenged. It's pure bladderdash. Oops, I mean, balderdash.

B.

his wife was on camera stating it was a "concern" that he might get the nomination...

I dunno... seems at LEAST open to question, certainly not worthy of this reaction.



The best politicians are charismatic and convincing. That's their job. Their words are much less important than their actions. When evaluating any person, look at where they invest their energy.

I'd caveat that with ***their public words***





Because that would be a YUGE mistake. I want to make this thread GREAT again! :ROFL:

I'll say one thing about the next 4 years... haha, there's gonna be some great comedy!

[Fellow Aspirant]

Anyone on this thread telling others what they can and can't talk about is also ridiculous and I'm just ignoring them.




I believe Sanders is a good man with a conscience who fights against corporate greed and government misuse of power. I believe this because I have listened to him and read his words. It's really that simple: I take him at his word and I have no difficulty understanding his meaning.

The best politicians are charismatic and convincing. That's their job. Their words are much less important than their actions. When evaluating any person, look at where they invest their energy.

I disagree about the primacy of actions over words. I'd give them equal heft. Trump got to where he is by using words that appealed to emotions. Now that he is in charge and his actions are in contradiction with his expressed intentions, he is using words to lull his followers back to sleep. I'm referring to his promises to "drain the swamp" and call Wall Street to account. Now that he has begun appointing former Goldman Sachs executives to positions of power, he is claiming that these men are the ones best suited for their roles because they are connected and understand how the system works (a claim he made for himself, as you will recall), that the rich should be put in charge because they know how to wield power. And his sheep are buying it - they listen to his words and they trust him. So, it doesn't seem to matter what a person does anymore, in this post-truth world, but what they say. If I didn't know better (maybe I don't!) I'd suspect Mr.Trump of using mass hypnosis, magik even, to "convince" his followers that he is working on their behalf. He distracts the audience (witness his profusion of tweets) with his words, and uses them to create illusions. Words are where he invests his energies. Ritual has always used the spoken word (and sound) as its core. Words define the meaning of our actions.

Thus, words are able to shape our realities.

And they're pretty useful in online forums.

Cheers,

Brian

[The Freedom Train]

From what I"ve read, all of recorded history... the only difference is the context of the control structure... the patterns are all the same.

Agreed.

.... and back to my ancient alien theories!!

[onawah]

Very good points.
trump got to where he is by using words that appealed to emotions. Now that he is in charge and his actions are in contradiction with his expressed intentions, he is using words to lull his followers back to sleep. I'm referring to his promises to "drain the swamp" and call wall street to account. Now that he has begun appointing former goldman sachs executives to positions of power, he is claiming that these men are the ones best suited for their roles because they are connected and understand how the system works (a claim he made for himself, as you will recall), that the rich should be put in charge because they know how to wield power. And his sheep are buying it - they listen to his words and they trust him. So, it doesn't seem to matter what a person does anymore, in this post-truth world, but what they say. If i didn't know better (maybe i don't!) i'd suspect mr.trump of using mass hypnosis, magik even, to "convince" his followers that he is working on their behalf. He distracts the audience (witness his profusion of tweets) with his words, and uses them to creates illusions. Words are where he invests his energies. Ritual has always used the spoken word (and sound) as its core. Words define the meaning of our actions.

Thus, words are able to shape our realities.

And they're pretty useful in online forums.

Cheers,

brian

[turiya]

...Trump got to where he is by using words that appealed to emotions. Now that he is in charge and his actions are in contradiction with his expressed intentions, he is using words to lull his followers back to sleep. I'm referring to his promises to "drain the swamp" and call Wall Street to account. Now that he has begun appointing former Goldman Sachs executives to positions of power, he is claiming that these men are the ones best suited for their roles because they are connected and understand how the system works (a claim he made for himself, as you will recall), that the rich should be put in charge because they know how to wield power. And his sheep are buying it - they listen to his words and they trust him. So, it doesn't seem to matter what a person does anymore, in this post-truth world, but what they say. If I didn't know better (maybe I don't!)

I'd suspect Mr.Trump of using mass hypnosis, magik even, to "convince" his followers that he is working on their behalf. He distracts the audience (witness his profusion of tweets) with his words, and uses them to creates illusions. Words are where he invests his energies. Ritual has always used the spoken word (and sound) as its core. Words define the meaning of our actions.

Thus, words are able to shape our realities.

And they're pretty useful in online forums.

Cheers, Brian


https://humorinamerica.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/debbranca20160926_low.jpg?w=620

All words are lies...

Hence, I understand your previously posted statement...
I believe Sanders is a good man with a conscience who fights against corporate greed and government misuse of power. I believe this because I have listened to him and read his words. It's really that simple: I take him at his word and I have no difficulty understanding his meaning.

The interpretation of words is subjective. That 'subjective' interpretation of words can be individual, or it can be a shared phenomenon. Understanding the human mind is helpful... And the best way to understand the mind of a human being is to know one's own mind...

The mind is a malleable tool. It is able to be hammered or pressed out of shape from the outside... by a constant stream information / misinformation coming from outside of oneself.

The MSM understands this. That is why they have also used words to stoke human emotions. The MSM, DNC, GOP have attempted to show that the words Trump has used in order to paint a picture of him as a representation of hate.

Misogynist, racist, bigot, Hitler, Islamophobic... pedofile... anti-semitic... tempermental... unfit, unstable, narcissistic. This tactic works because all human beings (whether they know it or not) have these characteristics embedded within themselves. Most people, in general, do not want to admit that these qualities are held within themselves, and would prefer to point their finger at somebody else. "Its not me, but the other... the neighbor down the street, the man / woman standing out there somewhere..." A certain degree of assoiation / disassociation transpires - depending how aware / unaware an individual is, or group of individuals.

For example, you are also doing the same with your statement above:
"...he [Trump] is using words to lull his followers back to sleep... And his sheep are buying it - they listen to his words and they trust him."
I would remind you that this is your interpretation... which is subjective. Hopefully, you can be honest and admit that you are still somewhat asleep yourself. Its a matter of degree. In a way, you are also using words to fan the flames of disinformation / misinformation.

Certainly Bermie, being one who has claimed to fight against corporate greed and government misuse of power, had said this, but in the end had endorsed Hillary Clinton... the queen of corporate greed & governmental misuse of power.

A proper position to take with Trump is to 'Wait & See'. As, Trump has noted in the 60 Minutes interview with Lesley Stahl:

"The whole place (D.C.) is one big Lobbyist. I'm saying that they know the system right now. But we're going to phase that out. You have to phase it out." You got to start somewhere...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0weVeBOF1Y

[lucidity]

Then, who or what IS the answer?

It's right here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?94907-Trump-is-NOT-the-answer&p=1119397&viewfull=1#post1119397), in post No. 2 of this thread.

This is ridiculous... this is worse than blaming the victim.
This is the victim blaming the victim.... strewth!

_we_ are not responsible for _THEIR_ corruption...
_we_ are not responsible for their war crimes, their looting of public and corporate wealth,
_we_ are not responsible for their paedophilia, or their satanic sacrifices of children and adults.

Since when is that _our_ fault ?

[AutumnW]

Great answer Dennis (and that would have been similar to mine too - gotta start somewhere and I believe the global movement to do just that has started, not just in the USA!)

Pointless exercise being in denial about it, trying to rewind time or worrying about things that haven't yet occurred (and may never)... IMO.

Our system is (was?) very much in the pocket of the "Elites" Dennis, but hey, ours has just made a sudden change too; at least you guys voted - our "leader" has just unexpectedly quit, (other threads talk about the possible reasons for that), so we don't really have a choice until the general election in a year. ;)

Cheers - KE

:focus:

Again, I want to make something really really clear here and Kiwi Elf it would help if you read what I say VERY carefully.

People, at least on this thread, who take great exception to Trump are NOT anti-demcratic, nor are they curled up in their safe spaces watching Winnie the Pooh videos.

Allow me to explain my own history a bit here. I helped to research a book about govt and media interaction and propaganda. It wasn't a big seller, but was an award winning, critical success. I have a fairly good grounding in espionage, social engineering projects. I also left the U.S with my late husband shortly after Bush junior became president partly due to fears of overt fascism taking over that country. I believe that 911 was an inside job.

I hope you don't think that those who are very worried about Trump do so from a naive perspective, or that a vote agains him, is somehow a vote FOR the elites.

Do you remember the Arab Spring revolution? Mubarek, the prime minister of Egypt, was overthrown by an apparent anti-authoritarian group, with the strong backing of the populace. One of the first things they did when they gained power was to tear up the constitution and establish themselves as a dictatorship. They tortured and terrorized and it was much worse than anything anyone had seen under Mubarek. I think Trump is going to do the same.

Think about what Trump brags about. He has all the police behind him -- total support, it would seem. He has the FBI, the national spook police network behind him. This isn't an innocent Andy of Mayberry, return to a bygone era of civil decency, kind of move.

These guys, in my opinion, will be cracking skulls, in a police state. Trump has brought up torture several times, in a rather cavalier way, that reflects his sentiments on the matter. And oh, didn't he say he wouldn't mind torturing people on domestic soil, too?

So many Trump supporters claim that anything is better than Hillary. Really? How about Idi Amin? Would he be better than Hillary? And bear in mind all of those on this thread expressing deep worry about Trump do NOT approve of the current administration or Hillary, either. If they do, they should speak up and prove me wrong.

It remains to be seen whether or not Trump's foreign policy makes America safer. I rather doubt it. Safer from war with Russia maybe, but he is already rattling sabres at China and they are much more of a threat.

People who voted for Trump, with the best of intentions, have just voted in an overt dictatorship, a police state that will ramp up like you can't imagine.

[onawah]

My thinking on the matter is that Trump's actions are going to bring things to the boil very quickly, because no matter how skillful a manipulator he may be, people are going to be much more alert now than they would have been if Hillary had been elected.
The Clintons were good at keeping things hidden, but I think Trump is arrogant enough that he believes he doesn't have to bother much with that.
But maybe the proverbial laboratory frog (having been alerted) in the beaker of water being heated will be quick enough to jump out before it comes to the boil this time.



Then, who or what IS the answer?
It's right here, in post No. 2 of this thread.
This is ridiculous... this is worse than blaming the victim.
This is the victim blaming the victim.... strewth!

_we_ are not responsible for _THEIR_ corruption...
_we_ are not responsible for their war crimes, their looting of public and corporate wealth,
_we_ are not responsible for their paedophilia, or their satanic sacrifices of children and adults.

Since when is that _our_ fault ?

It's not a question of blame, imho. It's a matter of not being evolved enough yet to deal with the sort of consciousness (if it can be called that) from which these kinds of acts originate.
We should know enough on this forum by now to understand the nature of the Reptilian agenda and the archonic influence that helped to create it.
Humanity has been affected and infected by this in many ways, but I think that, had we been left to our own devices and to the nurturing and positive influence of Gaia, this planet would be a peaceful place now.
Our challenge is to unite and evolve in spite of the roadblocks thrown in our path.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

People who voted for Trump, with the best of intentions, have just voted in an overt dictatorship, a police state that will ramp up like you can't imagine.

I think this would be true if he were left to his own devices. But I still think it likely that the old guard GOP will rally and try to impeach him in order to procure more power and economic opportunity for themselves. They have the Senate and House- now is their chance to take it all. And some will oppose Trump on idealogical grounds, like McCain. Some will side with Trump as they see opportunity to gain power and influence. The GOP civil war is quiet right now, but I believe it is raging full tilt behind the scenes.

Meanwhile, the DNC establishment has shown that it has not learned anything and it will also be at war with its now very large progressive wing for quite some time. One wonders if we might end up with four or five defacto parties, even if they continue to operate under the two existing brand names.

The installment of King Joffrey on the Iron Throne is not the end of the game by any stretch. Many moves will continue to be made.

https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.M89d80badf41bedfd205faba2d32e16a6o2&pid=15.1&P=0&w=270&h=172

[AutumnW]

Whisky Mystic and Onawah,

Thanks for your responses. You have both brought up very good points. Whiskey Mystic, I hope you are correct and maybe the less alarmist reaction is more sensible.

I fear that the extreme fascist forces will quickly consolidate and entrench their power and anybody who gets in their way will be pressured or blackmailed into submission. Once they have managed this, they will, very quickly, alter the constitution to grant themselves authoritarian power. At that point all bets are off. All dissenters will be incarcerated in private prisons. You're aware that the day after he was elected private prison stocks rose tremendously.

There will be such political turmoil, particularly if they do things like enforcing federal law into what has been the grey area of state's rights. I am thinking marijuana legalization in 26 states, here.

Onawah, what will be interesting is whether or not people will actually revolt,,or boil over, or if there will be a deathly stillness, a real deep fear of consequences. It's going to be interesting to witness.

[PurpleLama]

https://solari.com/audio/sr20161206FarrellTransition_InterviewHQ.mp3

Words from Catherine Austin Fitts and Dr. JP Farrell on which way they see the wind blowing. Enjoy!

[The Freedom Train]

All words are lies...

FIrst thing that comes to mind for me is, then why say anything at all?


A proper position to take with Trump is to 'Wait & See'.

Agreed.

I have my suspicions of course, but really who knows what is coming around the bend? Our fellow number crunching PA member here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?94880-I-Think-Something-Has-Gone-Wrong-With-Our-Timeline... has noted that even more scientifically based prognostications are not lending us much reliability as of late.

[AutumnW]

Love Catherine Austin Fitts, her take on corruption in govt, narco dollars, etc...I am not convinced that a vote for Trump represents a step towards a multi-polar world, though, as she suggests. Sometimes when really bright people are wrong, they aren't just a little wrong, they are 180 degrees off. That being said, I do HOPE she is right and that I am missing something.

CAF is a brilliant numbers person and has solid 'big picture' thinking based on those numbers AND, most critically, her own traumatic experiences with the powers that be. What I think she is missing, (and this was manifested by her strong endorsement of Mike Ruppert) is an ability to suss out conmen.

Ruppert developed a huge following, said ALOT of the right things, but ultimately proved to be a narcissist, more concerned with his image than the actual truth. Instead of helping the 911 Truth movement, he damaged it.

Her basic premise is a miscalculation--that on some level a decision has been made to sacrifice the empire for the sake of the nation. These powers have decided, unlike the current elites, that the nation shouldn't be sacrificed for the sake of the empire.

I hope she is right and if she is I will send Turiya a gift card for a double latte. If I am correct, I will send him a gift card for a flak jacket!

[Chris Gilbert]

Voting against the outward, perceived manipulation of the Elite and the media was definitely a good thing. I'm glad people are waking up in that respect.

However, I think that being on forums like this gives a skewed sense of how the majority voted. Many didn't vote to stop the Elite, they voted for "MURICA, THROW OUT MEXICANS!"

I have no delusions whatsoever about what kind of person Trump is. While I believe he is less likely to cause WWIII than Hillary, he is by no means a good person, and I suspect the next couple years will be some trying times.

[The Freedom Train]

Then, who or what IS the answer?

It's right here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?94907-Trump-is-NOT-the-answer&p=1119397&viewfull=1#post1119397), in post No. 2 of this thread.

This is ridiculous... this is worse than blaming the victim.
This is the victim blaming the victim.... strewth!

_we_ are not responsible for _THEIR_ corruption...
_we_ are not responsible for their war crimes, their looting of public and corporate wealth,
_we_ are not responsible for their paedophilia, or their satanic sacrifices of children and adults.

Since when is that _our_ fault?

Thank you for this post, lucidity - I meant to reply to that myself, and got lost in the sauce with several other posts I was making!

Agreed that the blame and shame campaign is used to divide and conquer us, to control us and keep us in disempowering positions of self loathing.

It used to irk me when staunch environmentalists I knew looked down upon average citizens for driving their cars around, among many other things. I just felt like geez can you blame them for doing what they need to do to get to and from work, transport their children to and fro, etc? It is not like we are given many viable options. And yes, it is possible in some instances to eschew automobiles completely, but good luck living in the country and going shopping with your kids on a saturday without one. And this too is coming from a position of privilege, since of course there are many who live without cars because they cannot afford them. I was one of those people for a number of years, and let me tell you, when I got a car it felt like an amazing freedom had been bestowed upon me (albeit with the insurance, registration, licensing, and repair shop gouging strings attached)

Unless we are able to completely check out of the system altogether (no money, no consumer goods, no nothing from the "outside world"), we end up leading compromised lives just to survive. Like when children are forced into drug trafficking, they do it for their survival. Is it right to blame them for their fate?

It is possible for people to make choices that go against the status quo, but they are difficult choices to make that result in a much more challenging existence.

These choices are usually more accessible to those who come from positions of relative comfort and privilege - making the divide and conquer blame and shame campaign even more ironic. The fact that children of rich families can go around expounding on the moral failings of those just trying to scrape by is so insidious in that it preys upon and utilizes the denouncers' desires for positive change and progress to oppress.

The flip side of this is that people who are so down and out and destitute that they literally have got nothing left to lose are also in a primed position to go against business as usual. Vagrants, for instance. But for anybody with a family, the decision to allow oneself to get to that point seems an impossible one to make. I used to fantasize about joining a traveling kitchen with the rainbow family. But the road life is hard and many of these people are alcoholics and drug addicts (of course so are most other people). Their diets are also not the greatest, and healthcare is limited. I am certain children have been lost to the system this way as well - when CPS somehow gets involved (maybe a child has a bad accident and needs to be taken to an emergency room) and the parents are deemed incapable of properly raising their children.

In that regard it's like we are stuck between a rock and a hard place as parents. If we choose non conformity in any ways, in the hopes that at least in part we can shield our children from our own compromised existences, we are flirting with the possibility that we could be declared incompetent as parents and have our children taken away from us (hello pizzagate). On the other hand, choosing conformity means we are required to offer our children up to the system, while also endeavoring to protect them and keep them safe in our care. Talk about cognitive dissonance!!!!

[The Freedom Train]

what will be interesting is whether or not people will actually revolt,,or boil over

What is mind bending to me is the thought that much of this revolting could lead to a scenario that dovetails quite nicely with NWO depopulation agendas.

And then there is the general trend (as I have personally noted and observed) amongst people who see how hopelessly effed the system is hoping and praying for some kind of major event to shake things up.

Is it possible that the NWO and the dissidents are actually hoping for the same thing?

Personally, I see that the ending of tyranny and oppression are essential, but I see the only real way of accomplishing this entails a collective shift in consciousness (as opposed to a solar flare, economic collapse, nuclear bomb explosion...) My hypothetical consciousness shift, which touches everyone, leads to effortless, natural change for the better. Otherwise, like I have said before in other posts, we will only recreate the dysfunction we wish to be freed from.

[Chester]

Perhaps the folks who are pushing for a "ban on 'Fake News'" are pushing one of many potential answers?

DDY6jQXNb90

At least, if they get their way they would have the final word... no wait, they would have the ONLY word. EVER.

[turiya]

All words are lies...

FIrst thing that comes to mind for me is, then why say anything at all?

Truth is found in absolute silence. Truth is found in-between the words. So, don't be distracted by what is said with words.

Truth can be 'felt' in-between the words that are said. Words cannot be the Truth, words can be the carrier of Truth. Words also carry lies. In fact, all words are lies. The more one is connected with their own inner silence, the more easier it is to see what people say is coming from their own inner silence, it also becomes easier to see what people are saying is not coming from their heart / silence - but simply saying what is not truthful.

[Ron Mauer Sr]

My wish is that humans become so clever, so smart, so intuitive that manipulation of humans is no longer possible.
I vote for help to get that part done.
Then we can take care of business properly.

[turiya]

My wish is that humans become so clever, so smart, so intuitive that manipulation of humans is no longer possible.
I vote for help to get that part done.
Then we can take care of business properly.

That time was once present, here, on this planet Earth.
My sense is, again, that day will soon be upon us.
Until then, we will have to put up with elections.

[Fellow Aspirant]

turiya

Regarding your claim ...

"All words are lies... "

Are yours?

There is an "intent" component at the heart of the act of lying. If there is no intent to deceive, then there is no lie. You begin from a nihilistic vacuum and proceed ... to where?

Your statement seems derived from the old philosophical nostrum "Everything I say is a lie" which, if one tries to get to the truth of it, becomes a frustrating exercise that sees the snake swallow its own tail ad infinitum. It's interesting but ultimately useless. And, like the exercise of trying to decipher the riddle of the snake, I find your argument rather circular.

If your claim is correct, then there is no possible hope for understanding anything that is written on this forum. If you truly believe what you have written, then there is no reason for you to engage with anyone on this forum other than to deceive and be deceived in turn. How can anyone around here take what you have to say seriously? Or pay you any heed at all? Why do you persist in such an exercise?

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are here to exchange honest and personal ideas. This requires that I assume you have simply erred by overstating your case. In future, then, please, for the sake of basic understanding, consider your words more carefully. We fellow members would like to understand what you have to say, but you have to respect the process that uses words to accomplish our goals.

Now, you were saying ... ?

Cheers,

Brian

[The Freedom Train]

Truth is found in absolute silence. Truth is found in-between the words. So, don't be distracted by what is said with words.

Truth can be 'felt' in-between the words that are said. Words cannot be the Truth, words can be the carrier of Truth. Words also carry lies. In fact, all words are lies. The more one is connected with their own inner silence, the more easier it is to see what people say is coming from their own inner silence, it also becomes easier to see what people are saying is not coming from their heart / silence - but simply saying what is not truthful.

True that. I definitely get what you are saying - words are pointers at best. I appreciate that you temper the statement, "all words are lies" with your explanation that people may speak from their own inner silence.

[Bruno]

The Time magazine cover shows Trump turning to those just off the stage... a reality tv angle... a wink and a nod to those that elected him in my mind.

Trump is just as much a puppet as Hilary. He wouldn't even have been allowed to run if he wasn't. His cabinet picks thus far prove that he is no different in my mind. If anything I think he will bring us into war more quickly and with less resistance from Americans because his brash, blunt and aggressive approach seems to be celebrated. He will go after China and Iran and his supporters will thank him for it at least initially. We will be knee deep in WW3 before 2017 is done. I think the powers that be had to use Trump because he gives the illusion of change.
He will be easy to use a fall guy for war because pretty much everything that comes out of his mouth is inflammatory.

[Chester]

I just wanted to create this thread for those who are completely opposed to the status quo but who DON'T think that Trump is the answer.

The swamp has been restocked, not drained and the real 'winner' of the election was Goldman Sachs.

Hi AutumnW,

Long ago I concluded that when I think, speak or take action, I do so based on a particular point of view as to which level of reality I may be operating from at that moment and which was the primary POV founding my thought, word or action.

My primary and all encompassing POV can be pointed to be describing "who I am." Who I am is "the timeless, formless eternal one life" (from Eckhart Tolle). Of course, I also draw the same conclusion about us all, all life, all manifest form that arises including that from which what has arisen rises. Within this "all that is" is the individual "I am" at the level of this one life. And additionally, I have a hope and desire that an essence of this individuation continues beyond the death of this physical body (and if so, that perhaps this essence preceded this current lifetime.




The reason I stated the above is because the rest of my post is founded by the POV of "this one life (of my own individuation)" and all life that shares this level of reality with "Sam Hunter."

I (Sam Hunter) have examined the world carefully for quite some time. I feel I have developed a reasonable degree of understanding about "what is" and also "what may be." I certainly do not think that what I think I know or what I think may be right or wrong for the world is in any way definitive, is in any way the most informed and and I certainly do not think I have the best ideas for the world to move forward.

I do believe our shared reality experience would be far more loving if each and every one of us placed as a priority on answering the very question I have answered - the question and answer with which I began this post. To me, if there be any real answer... that each of us answer the question "Who am I" is that answer.

So if someone asked me the question, "Who is the answer?"... I would say, "You... the man in the mirror."

So now for the reason I wrote this post. I have two questions which are stimulated by your thread's title.

Question One is - The answer to what?

and Question Two is, if we can agree on "the what," then how are we able to place that answer (or not) on any single individual's shoulders such that their words and actions over some finite period of time would fundamentally and profoundly change the world's shared reality experience for all and perhaps for all time?

So to summarize my questions -

What should Trump (or anyone) be the answer to?

And if we can identify "the what," who then could be the deliverer of this answer if anyone?

[turiya]

turiya

Regarding your claim ...

"All words are lies... "

Are yours?

There is an "intent" component at the heart of the act of lying. If there is no intent to deceive, then there is no lie. You begin from a nihilistic vacuum and proceed ... to where?

Your statement seems derived from the old philosophical nostrum "Everything I say is a lie" which, if one tries to get to the truth of it, becomes a frustrating exercise that sees the snake swallow its own tail ad infinitum. It's interesting but ultimately useless. And, like the exercise of trying to decipher the riddle of the snake, I find your argument rather circular.

If your claim is correct, then there is no possible hope for understanding anything that is written on this forum. If you truly believe what you have written, then there is no reason for you to engage with anyone on this forum other than to deceive and be deceived in turn. How can anyone around here take what you have to say seriously? Or pay you any heed at all? Why do you persist in such an exercise?

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are here to exchange honest and personal ideas. This requires that I assume you have simply erred by overstating your case. In future, then, please, for the sake of basic understanding, consider your words more carefully. We fellow members would like to understand what you have to say, but you have to respect the process that uses words to accomplish our goals.

Now, you were saying ... ?

Cheers,

Brian

First of all: This is not 'my' claim. It is wisdom that is handed down from ancient times...

For example, there is this story:

Master Lao Tzu gave the announcement to his many disciples that he was near the end of his time in his physical body & was leaving for the Himalayas. As he always felt that when the time came, he would like to pass away within the Himalayan mountains. Nobody was to go with him, nor was anybody to follow him. With respect, everyone gave him their fond farewell.

When he reached the border of China, there was a guard there that was also one of his disciples. The guard loved him very much, but told him that since he would not be seeing him ever again, that he wouldn't let him pass out of China without first spending some time in his hut to write down some words of wisdom.

Lao Tzu agreed and thus he began writing the Tao Te Ching. So for three days Lao Tzu was imprisoned by his own disciple. It is beautiful. It is very loving. He was forced – and that’s how this small book, the book of Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching, was born. He had to write it, because the disciple wouldn’t allow him to cross. And he was the guard and he had the authority, he could create trouble, so Lao Tzu had to write the book. In three days he finished it.

This is the first sentence of the book:

"The Tao that can be told of is not the True Tao."

This is the 1st thing Lao Tzu has to say: that whatsoever can be said cannot be true. This is the introduction for the book. It simply makes you alert: now words will be following, don’t become a victim of the words. Remember the wordless. Remember that which cannot be communicated through language, through words. The Tao can be communicated, but it can only be communicated from being to being. It can be communicated when you are with the Master, just with the Master, doing nothing, not even practicing anything. Just being with the Master it can be communicated. And the real Master is within.


Yes, you get my drift.... Don't take my word for it. Do your own research - looking at your own mind - to see if this is true for yourself.

If you take 'my' word for it, then it becomes "your belief" - believing what I say to be true. This is how all belief is created... this is the basis of all the established religions in this world. Belief is out of borrowed information... borrowed from others.

If you believe what I say to be true, then you are setting yourself up to be betrayed when what was said falls short from your own expectation. Finding oneself to be supposedly 'betrayed' by the words said by another / others, leads to pointing the finger at others for what is now your claim of being deceptively lied to.


If your claim is correct, then there is no possible hope for understanding anything that is written on this forum.

Like I said, its not 'my' claim... This world is built on borrowed information. This forum is part of this world we all live in. So yeah, you've been perfectly capable of living up to now in the world as it is, and have you found it somewhat difficult, at times, to understand whatever that goes on within it?

Your question becomes... back around to yourself... yes, its circular...


How does one go on living in a world that nobody seems to really understand?

The question comes back around to you...
Let alone this world, this forum... Have you yet come to completely understand yourself?
Have you come to completely know who you are?
If you don't, then how do you go on living?

[onawah]

Was the theory ever debunked that the elite would somehow manage it so that Obama remains in office (presumably due to some kind of event resulting in martial law)?
If that is still in the cards, then we would probably be seeing the "event" soon; more rioting perhaps?
But the picture is further complicated by the fact that new evidence is scheduled to be revealed in January showing that Obama's birth certificate and history were falsified (as well as questions re his Social Security number and his daughters' parentage).
Though no doubt that could all be suppressed or ignored if events are well enough orchestrated.
If the stories about how Trump was elected are really all just a part of the orchestration, then the election trauma-drama is probably not over yet.

[Rich]

I wouldn't call words lies while it is true we got to use them for this, including this forum.
It is however useful to remember that words are an invention, something that we made up, it's a make believe and not reality.

[AutumnW]

I just wanted to create this thread for those who are completely opposed to the status quo but who DON'T think that Trump is the answer.

The swamp has been restocked, not drained and the real 'winner' of the election was Goldman Sachs.

Hi AutumnW,

Long ago I concluded that when I think, speak or take action, I do so based on a particular point of view as to which level of reality I may be operating from at that moment and which was the primary POV founding my thought, word or action.

My primary and all encompassing POV can be pointed to be describing "who I am." Who I am is "the timeless, formless eternal one life" (from Eckhart Tolle). Of course, I also draw the same conclusion about us all, all life, all manifest form that arises including that from which what has arisen rises. Within this "all that is" is the individual "I am" at the level of this one life. And additionally, I have a hope and desire that an essence of this individuation continues beyond the death of this physical body (and if so, that perhaps this essence preceded this current lifetime.




The reason I stated the above is because the rest of my post is founded by the POV of "this one life (of my own individuation)" and all life that shares this level of reality with "Sam Hunter."

I (Sam Hunter) have examined the world carefully for quite some time. I feel I have developed a reasonable degree of understanding about "what is" and also "what may be." I certainly do not think that what I think I know or what I think may be right or wrong for the world is in any way definitive, is in any way the most informed and and I certainly do not think I have the best ideas for the world to move forward.

I do believe our shared reality experience would be far more loving if each and every one of us placed as a priority on answering the very question I have answered - the question and answer with which I began this post. To me, if there be any real answer... that each of us answer the question "Who am I" is that answer.

So if someone asked me the question, "Who is the answer?"... I would say, "You... the man in the mirror."

So now for the reason I wrote this post. I have two questions which are stimulated by your thread's title.

Question One is - The answer to what?

and Question Two is, if we can agree on "the what," then how are we able to place that answer (or not) on any single individual's shoulders such that their words and actions over some finite period of time would fundamentally and profoundly change the world's shared reality experience for all and perhaps for all time?

So to summarize my questions -

What should Trump (or anyone) be the answer to?

And if we can identify "the what," who then could be the deliverer of this answer if anyone?

Hi Sam,

Just quick here because unfortunately I am running low on energy! "Who am I?" is a question that can't necessarily be found through rumination and self reflection. We may never really know who we are, but we can glean some understanding by honestly looking at the footprints we leave all over others, if we are jerks. We can learn a bit about who we are by observing when and where we have left footprints, beside others, from holding them up. We can learn, 'who am I' by noting our their absence, when we were being held up by others.

"Who am I" can often only be known retrospectively and through the filters of our times. Sometimes the answer to 'who WAS I?' Are thrown at us in the present. I LOVED Barack Obama. That's who I was. But who am I now? I am a being who has been lied to and betrayed on every level, including the political one.

I am a person who understands that my best qualities and hopeful nature can and will be used against me. I was not even that naive. What was I? I was embodied hope, in a sense. That desire for change and a better world subsumed my common sense. Who am I now? Someone who finds hope in smaller things, in friends, family and my local sphere.

The man in the mirror is the answer, true. But he is not alone and he is not sitting still. He or she, together with vast numbers of others have a life force that expresses itself in movements of all kinds. And sometimes, feelings of hope and a zeal for change can be used against us.

So, I guess maybe I would summarize by using the universal again...who are you, Sam? With respect to Trump...you are hope. And Trump is NOT the answer, he is going to represent the antithesis of that, as would Hillary.

The only hope I have is that I am proved wrong! Because I can't know for sure.

[Fellow Aspirant]

turiya

You fail to grasp my point. Perhaps it is because I use words. What I am driving at is not profound, however. I am only taking exception to your claim that "All words are lies".
And yes, it IS your claim. They are your words. Nowhere in your "lesson" on the teachings of Lao Tzu is the word "lie". His message - using words :bigsmile: of course, is the same as every other great teacher who has become enlightened: the truth is ineffable. It cannot be expressed in words. This of course is ancient knowledge. And I agree with it - it's a given amongst those of us who aspire to enlightenment. But it does not mean that words cannot be useful tools for our explorations.

What I must call you to account for, however, is not this insight, so please spare me the third rate philosophizing. What I wish you to address is the falsehood of claiming that all words are lies. I maintain that in order to be considered a lie, a statement must contain the intent to deceive. Absent that, no statement can be a lie. What you are trying to say, I think, is that words are inadequate to convey the absolute, true sense of reality, the All. We can use words to try to describe the state of enlightenment, but we all know that words are only a poor approximation, at best. That should not and does not prevent us from trying, however. The great teachers use words and symbols and gestures and stories (in words) to show us the path toward enlightenment, but the journey is ours. To treat their words as lies shows contempt for their wisdom. So yeah, I get it. But don't expect me to treat all words as lies. To make such a claim is not to lie, but to reveal a lack of understanding.

Brian

[onawah]

Possibly the event that would provide an excuse for the declaration of martial law would be the assassination of Trump.
Or possibly a false flag event in which Trump is apparently assassinated, but is actually spirited away to be retired for the rest of his life to some island paradise, while Obama remains the pliant tool of the elite as POTUS.
With martial law, they wouldn't have to worry about alternative news getting the truth out about Obama's birth certificate or anything else, for that matter, and
the fake news could continue being faked.
The reason my suspicions keep on veering in this direction is that rather than public acceptance of the election results, tensions and disagreement seem to be on the increase...

Was the theory ever debunked that the elite would somehow manage it so that Obama remains in office (presumably due to some kind of event resulting in martial law)?
If that is still in the cards, then we would probably be seeing the "event" soon; more rioting perhaps?
But the picture is further complicated by the fact that new evidence is scheduled to be revealed in January showing that Obama's birth certificate and history were falsified (as well as questions re his Social Security number and his daughters' parentage).
Though no doubt that could all be suppressed or ignored if events are well enough orchestrated.
If the stories about how Trump was elected are really all just a part of the orchestration, then the election trauma-drama is probably not over yet.

[Chester]

Thanks, AutumnW, for the reply. It appears to me that your reply focused on the "who am I" self reflective question from the perspective of the individuated being, known as AutumnW. Unfortunately, the reason I explained my own view (a multi-level view which creates the situation that context be shared as to which level I am 'speaking' from when I make a post such as this), was to let you and readers know that my question was coming from the individuated being and his one life known as Sam Hunter and not from the Big Me level of being (if there be that) or my multi-life soul aspect of being (if their be one).

I feel I did a poor job of properly asking my question because of the lengthy preamble (yet again, here is a lengthy preamble). What I tried to do is explain that the way I view life is from the various levels of being based on the way I have answered the question, "Who (and perhaps what) am !."

I then hoped to convey that my question I wanted to ask was coming from the level of being I refer to as "This one life" (the being known as Sam Hunter). I then pointed out that when I am looking at life from this point of view, I see a shared reality of all and everything that is just another expression of the All That Is (which I see as Big Me, Big That). By saying that, from this primary level... I take the view that we are all Big That (which can be viewed as Big Me from an individual's perspective). I am using words here. For me, words are inadequate to describe this but I did my best with the words I have used to "point to this - the ineffable." It seems to me that this (the inadequacy of words) is what Turiya was pointing out and with which I very much agree.

And by the way, I wanted Barack Obama in 2008 because I liked the being I perceived him to be and I liked his message of real hope and change.

So before I try and ask the questions that are burning inside me I must restate -

It is important to me that the reader of my posts do not think that what I am pointing to is what anyone else should think or believe or have adopted as their own answer to the question, "Who/What am I?"




Back to the reason for my post and the goal I hope to achieve - answers to these two questions - I have my own too and would be glad to offer them, but I am very much interested in your reply, AutumnW and the reply from anyone else who might want to consider these two questions.

So let me simply ask -

1 - The answer to what?

and

2 - If we are able to agree on the what, is anyone an answer to that?

I am beginning to think that your thread title may have been trying to suggest this very thing... that not only is Trump not the answer, but perhaps no one is the answer. Am I on the right track? But this still leaves me wondering... answer to what?

So finally I ask the original question again... if I have it right... what is it that anyone might be the answer to?

I believe that the responses to this question are critical for this excellent thread to move past the duality hole it sometimes has descended into.

[Chester]

To Fellow Aspirant

I understood the words Turiya chose to make his point and when I read your post, you suggest the same point but with different words. The only thing I observed in both Turiya's post and yours is that it appeared Turiya's statement "All words are lies" was referring to (again I must use inadequate words) "Absolute Truth." Whereas your first few responses focused upon what, to me, is when words are used to describe a relative truth. Yet then, in Post #98, you refer to the Absolute Truth (again... my inadequate words) in saying "the truth is ineffable."

So when considering "Absolute Truth" I see the statement "All words are lies..." and the statement "the truth is ineffable" as pointing to the exact same thing.

So I ask this... I ask this to all of us here -

Why has so much polarization manifested on this forum over this recent US presidential election?

In fact, I now feel I need to make a thread dedicated to this discussion.

[ceetee9]

So I ask this... I ask this to all of us here -

Why has so much polarization manifested on this forum over this recent US presidential election?
Because, as Dim pointed out, we still don't want to look within--at least not very deeply--including those of us on PA. We continue to look outside for a savior to rescue us from our problems when the problem IS us. The savior is within. We need rescuing from ourselves and the only person who can do that is ourself. Until we start addressing our own demons, dislikes/hatreds, beliefs, motivations, intentions, manipulations, etc. in earnest, nothing of any real substance is ever going to change, IMHO.

[Lifebringer]

And pretty soon you won't be able to sit on the fence about the price of doing, believing, intentions of good.
The tipping points or short fuses, get more tilted and short.
God help us.
I believe in life everlasting to move on, who wants to drag chaos around unless necessary to teach a lesson?

[The Freedom Train]

To Fellow Aspirant

I understood the words Turiya chose to make his point and when I read your post, you suggest the same point but with different words. The only thing I observed in both Turiya's post and yours is that it appeared Turiya's statement "All words are lies" was referring to (again I must use inadequate words) "Absolute Truth." Whereas your first few responses focused upon what, to me, is when words are used to describe a relative truth. Yet then, in Post #98, you refer to the Absolute Truth (again... my inadequate words) in saying "the truth is ineffable."

So when considering "Absolute Truth" I see the statement "All words are lies..." and the statement "the truth is ineffable" as pointing to the exact same thing.

So I ask this... I ask this to all of us here -

Why has so much polarization manifested on this forum over this recent US presidential election?

In fact, I now feel I need to make a thread dedicated to this discussion.

Fantastic.

[The Freedom Train]

1 - The answer to what?

and

2 - If we are able to agree on the what, is anyone an answer to that?

I am beginning to think that your thread title may have been trying to suggest this very thing... that not only is Trump not the answer, but perhaps no one is the answer. Am I on the right track? But this still leaves me wondering... answer to what?

So finally I ask the original question again... if I have it right... what is it that anyone might be the answer to?

I believe that the responses to this question are critical for this excellent thread to move past the duality hole it sometimes has descended into.

I still think that the answer is LOVE. Which sounds totally flaky contrived unrealistic deluded etc to many I am sure. But as I have said before on other posts, one does not dismantle the master's house with the master's tools - I very much believe this to be true. I have seen it time and time again.

I see how whenever people come together in an effort to address problems, more problems are created through division, blame and shame, ego trips, etc - and of course the patterns that are aimed at being overthrown are inevitably recreated. History repeats itself. Etc.

So, to move from the duality of the mind to the unity and unconditional love of the heart is, to me, the only viable answer that will lead to a natural, effortless shift in the status quo. There will be no need for policing, laws, money.... with a collective shift in consciousness we would all be free to create and live the utopian ideal many of us yearn for.

SO how does this collective shift come about? I used to think I could will a personal shift into being for myself, and that the results of my conscious decision and actions would contribute to a "hundredth monkey" type scenario for the collective consciousness and vibrational level of all beings on the planet. I have my doubts now that my will has anything to do with it. In fact, I am beginning to suspect that my will is a roadblock to the process, and I have been endeavoring as of late to take my will out of that particular equation, and am focusing instead solely on the basics for what I need day to day to stay alive (some would call that survival mode, and admittedly it is not a very comfortable place to be. But is it comfortable to make a shift in consciousness that demotes the mind to a backseat position?).

Either I am being tricked into this latest mode of thinking and doing, or it is some kind of overwhelming trend in my life, governed and steered by a force much greater than myself (which is at least how it feels).

I think it basically comes down to control. Free will. Personal power versus a "higher power"

Self determination. Manifestation, Abraham Hicks and the Secret. Sorcery and the occult. Manipulation of the world to suit our needs and wants.

Releasement of ego. Recognizing control as an illusion. Flexible, supple surrender.

And then we have: chinese handcuffs, wheels of Karma, and the hydra. "resistance is futile"

So is it either or? Both and? Victims and victimizers. Controllers and controllees. Dog eat dog, eat or be eaten. How many versions of the truth are there?

[Rich]

Well said ceetee9, if we look at it in another way it does not matter who the president is, we have to think of it as a mirror, it reflects back our thoughts but It does not determine the choices we can make.

The problem is always the belief that we have no power and therefore we must blame someone else,
the reaction of blaming others is only logical if we have that belief, but the only thing that is really logical is love, because it does not omit truth.

[AutumnW]

We need to understand the varying perspectives of others and how they are formed. Most people, based on their own personal experiences, form their world view. If they don't agree with us, it isn't because they are 'in denial' deluded or all f"d up in the head.

It's a shadow play, where we have witnessed or experienced, first hand, the shadow aspect of their belief system, and reject it. We may have suffered deeply from being exposed to that shadow.

The shadow aspect of liberalism, is the idea that we have zero control over our lives, where every aspect of life, including tje dynamics of interpersonal relationships, can be reduced down to a series of automatic political reflexes. But that is the shadow aspect -- which those hiding in their safe spaces adhere to. Most liberals do not.

Right wing libertarianism imagines that the locus of control is within us and should only be exercised from within or voluntarily. Norman Vincent Peale espoused this, in "thePower of Positive Thinking." This fundamental ideology works well, in a society of caring individuals who respect the rule of law. If not, the fundamentals break down, revealing its shadow, in a "might makes right," form of fascism.

[AutumnW]

1 - The answer to what?

and

2 - If we are able to agree on the what, is anyone an answer to that?

I am beginning to think that your thread title may have been trying to suggest this very thing... that not only is Trump not the answer, but perhaps no one is the answer. Am I on the right track? But this still leaves me wondering... answer to what?

So finally I ask the original question again... if I have it right... what is it that anyone might be the answer to?

I believe that the responses to this question are critical for this excellent thread to move past the duality hole it sometimes has descended into.

I still think that the answer is LOVE. Which sounds totally flaky contrived unrealistic deluded etc to many I am sure. But as I have said before on other posts, one does not dismantle the master's house with the master's tools - I very much believe this to be true. I have seen it time and time again.

I see how whenever people come together in an effort to address problems, more problems are created through division, blame and shame, ego trips, etc - and of course the patterns that are aimed at being overthrown are inevitably recreated. History repeats itself. Etc.

So, to move from the duality of the mind to the unity and unconditional love of the heart is, to me, the only viable answer that will lead to a natural, effortless shift in the status quo. There will be no need for policing, laws, money.... with a collective shift in consciousness we would all be free to create and live the utopian ideal many of us yearn for.

SO how does this collective shift come about? I used to think I could will a personal shift into being for myself, and that the results of my conscious decision and actions would contribute to a "hundredth monkey" type scenario for the collective consciousness and vibrational level of all beings on the planet. I have my doubts now that my will has anything to do with it. In fact, I am beginning to suspect that my will is a roadblock to the process, and I have been endeavoring as of late to take my will out of that particular equation, and am focusing instead solely on the basics for what I need day to day to stay alive (some would call that survival mode, and admittedly it is not a very comfortable place to be. But is it comfortable to make a shift in consciousness that demotes the mind to a backseat position?).

Either I am being tricked into this latest mode of thinking and doing, or it is some kind of overwhelming trend in my life, governed and steered by a force much greater than myself (which is at least how it feels).

I think it basically comes down to control. Free will. Personal power versus a "higher power"

Self determination. Manifestation, Abraham Hicks and the Secret. Sorcery and the occult. Manipulation of the world to suit our needs and wants.

Releasement of ego. Recognizing control as an illusion. Flexible, supple surrender.

And then we have: chinese handcuffs, wheels of Karma, and the hydra. "resistance is futile"

So is it either or? Both and? Victims and victimizers. Controllers and controllees. Dog eat dog, eat or be eaten. How many versions of the truth are there?

There is nothing more hallowed, in my mind than those (most of us) stuck in survival mode, who are still able to step outside of those constraints to ponder, what life is about; to grapple with others over philosophical issues...to retain our humanity.

We are on a planet whose population has increased exponentially and we are sliding down an economic, ideological and political incline that ends in the third world. There isn't much we, as individuals can do about it, without interfering in the rights of others.

[KiwiElf]

Again, I want to make something really really clear here and Kiwi Elf it would help if you read what I say VERY carefully.

Why,... I'm flattered AutumnW... :bowing: (I'm really not the one you need to worry about) ;) ... (psssst... please look up the term, selective perception)... and btw, I wasn't the slightest bit annoyed by your discussion,.. it's very educational & interesting

Perhaps if the problem was more clearly defined, then it would be easier to arrive at THE answer :)

[AutumnW]

Again, I want to make something really really clear here and Kiwi Elf it would help if you read what I say VERY carefully.

Why,... I'm flattered AutumnW... :bowing: (I'm really not the one you need to worry about) ;) ... (psssst... please look up the term, selective perception)... and btw, I wasn't the slightest bit annoyed by your discussion,.. it's very educational & interesting

Perhaps if the problem was more clearly defined, then it would be easier to arrive at THE answer :)

Thanks for your post. I understand how you may have felt belittled and why you reacted the way you did. Take care!

[AutumnW]

Sam,

In answer to your post asking me to clarify what I meant by the term, "not the answer," -- it is a figure of speech, loosely meaning "not the answer to our problems." I was using it as in, "not the answer to our problems, foreign or domestic."

[Daozen]

The 'polarization' is not between Trump and Hilary supporters. I preferred Trump over Hilary, like I prefer Mussolini over Hitler.

The real split on this forum is between a hardcore clique of Willy Wonka fantasists who believe that Obama/The Blue Avians/The SSP/The White Dragon Society/The Resistance Movement/Trump is somehow going to magically gift us an easy ride to freedom, and the rest of us, who believe the process of human liberation will take real work and dedication. Trump is just the Savior of the Month.

Is the alt media as free as it claims to be? Is the split really between the alt media and the MSM? I see the alt media as a maximum security cuckoo's nest for potential disruptors. It is just as infiltrated as the MSM, if not more so. :raining:

[Chester]

Great AutumnW, thanks for clarifying... I now understand what you have been getting which is broad and generalized as opposed to something specific.

In fact, I could put in anyone's name in place of "Trump" and draw the same conclusion with only one exception.

That person being...

the name that points to myself.


If "I," Sam Hunter (Sam Hunter being this one life expression of the All That Is which I will further refer to simply as "I" for the rest of this post), perceive a problem and that problem appears to be something "I" have generated, then perhaps there are changes "I" need to make within so that "I" do not create the same problem again. In addition, "I" may need to make amends to others if the problem "I" created harmed others.

If "I" perceive a problem where it appears others and/or myself might be harmed, even if this something is something "I" did not create and "I" have the interest and wherewithal to change the effects of that problem, "I" operate such that "I" have the right and possibly the responsibility to act to do so.

In all of the above, it is all and only "I," myself, that acts such that "I" might resolve something "I" perceive as a problem.

[AutumnW]

The 'polarization' is not between Trump and Hilary supporters. I preferred Trump over Hilary, like I prefer Mussolini over Hitler.

The real split on this forum is between a hardcore clique of Willy Wonka fantasists who believe that Obama/The Blue Avians/The SSP/The White Dragon Society/The Resistance Movement/Trump is somehow going to magically gift us an easy ride to freedom, and the rest of us, who believe the process of human liberation will take real work and dedication. Trump is just the Savior of the Month.

Is the alt media as free as it claims to be? Is the split really between the alt media and the MSM? I see the alt media as a maximum security cuckoo's nest for potential disruptors. It is just as infiltrated as the MSM, if not more so. :raining:


Totally agree.

[TargeT]

The real split on this forum is between a hardcore clique of Willy Wonka fantasists who believe that Obama/The Blue Avians/The SSP/The White Dragon Society/The Resistance Movement/Trump is somehow going to magically gift us an easy ride to freedom, and the rest of us, who believe the process of human liberation will take real work and dedication.

But that's sort of always been a division, at least even since I joined P.A. it has been, right?

I think it must be very attractive and VERY relieving to think that "something" has things "in hand"... in fact I think it's what was engineered into us genetic-slave-labor Plebs, seeing an authority as a savior and someone who will "do for us".Once we have something to have faith in (be it religion, government, what ever) we tend to be pretty complacent and pliable.

I personally find this a very dis-empowering attitude as you are effectively giving up your power to an outside entity and hoping for the best, in my experience this type of situation (someone else saving you) rarely happens, and when it does it's never what you originally thought it was (ulterior motives..).

[Daozen]

Yes TargeT the split has always been there. In True-man show terms it is the dialogue between those who are invested in maintaining the illusion, and those who want to 'break out', whatever breakout means.

Note the mischacterizations. I read several boards, and Trump-promoting posters are all using the same playbook.

1) Anyone who disagrees with Trump is a 'butthurt liberal Hilary supporter' who needs to 'deal with it'
2) The MSM is 'controlled', the alt media is 'free'.
3) We are supposed to be shocked and surprised that Trump 'came out of nowhere' despite the fact that Oprah was asking him to run for President decades ago. The establisment knows we don't like them, so they try and paint their next choice as a maverick outsider, just like they did with Obama.

We are also told we need to 'wait and see' about Trump. Waiting and seeing is what this part of the media has been doing for nearly a decade.

The healthiest thing to do is take a step back, admit both sides of politics are co-opted, and try and build a future without them.

[pyrangello]

I would submit to you that the system that was created in what we live in today is on the brink and is close to becoming not workable . People who are in charge, want to stay in charge, of their wealth, and their comfort. They want to be able to move about in a lifestyle they are accustom too. Not in some box in the ground. I remember reading somewhere I believe on PA that the offspring of some of the most wealthy in the world ( 2/3rds) want a workable society , why not after all they are at the top anyways . I don't envy that but what I am saying is those that created what is now failing and being patched on a daily basis just to stay afloat may be saying uncle and realize it is time for a change and are willing to give this a shot . After all if this entire system collapses within it won't be safe to go anywhere for sometime and thats for everyone. And baby , it won't matter how much your worth at that point.

And one more thing , Like I have said before on this forum, Trump didn't need the fame, or the money or put his family thru the ringer or bring up any dirt from the past. The man doesn't drink or smoke and he is pulling Americas best talent from everywhere to steer one big axx ship. He didn't need to take this on, but he has kids and grand kids too, and like all of us , we will be leaving the earth one day and having our review of life , to feel everything that everyone else has felt as a result of our own actions both good or bad. I have faith and I certainly don't have horse blinders on but what one has to recognize the environment of running this country is much more larger than any of can realize.It is an entirely different level all together. And there are certainly a lot of dirty individuals out there to contend with as well, just as the saying goes swimming with the sharks. . And that's on a daily basis. Give the man his due for now, he earned it and hopefully for all the right reasons.

[TargeT]

both sides of politics are co-opted, and try and build a future without them.

Just a funny note, you say both sides but spent the majority of your post talking about one side.

It's pretty impressive how deeply rooted our "choice of sides" can be & how hard it is to shake it.... I still "tend" to be more "conservative" than not, that's how I was... programmed (raised).

[Daozen]

both sides of politics are co-opted, and try and build a future without them.

Just a funny note, you say both sides but spent the majority of your post talking about one side.



Hilary lost the election, and there's no Hilary_will_turn this_country_around meme being propagated in the alt media, so there's nothing to debunk. But I agree that our thoughts are colored by our upbringing.

[The Freedom Train]

I think it must be very attractive and VERY relieving to think that "something" has things "in hand"... in fact I think it's what was engineered into us genetic-slave-labor Plebs, seeing an authority as a savior and someone who will "do for us".Once we have something to have faith in (be it religion, government, what ever) we tend to be pretty complacent and pliable.

I personally find this a very dis-empowering attitude as you are effectively giving up your power to an outside entity and hoping for the best, in my experience this type of situation (someone else saving you) rarely happens, and when it does it's never what you originally thought it was (ulterior motives..).

It is amazing to me how, in mostly every discussion I find on this forum, for me it oftentimes boils down to philosophical concepts like free will versus determinism.

Since it seems to me like most people here on the forum are awakening, then the question remains - how much of that process is determined by the assertion of our own wills, and how much of that process is out of our direct, individual control?

I would like to add a musing I posted on another thread about dreams, regarding the collective awakening process:

"I would like to say that my hope is for all of us to fulfill this destiny collectively. I believe, in fact, as I move through each day and assimilate new information and experiences, that it is inevitable.

We are all in this together.

There is no need for a messiah, because we are all leading each other, unwittingly, to our collective salvation.

I am watching myself relax into the eternal flow, as +dim so eloquently puts it, in the face of extreme adversity and the most triggering events of my life. I am in awe of this process. The sense of calm, peace, stillness that I am experiencing is - ineffable. My mind cannot explain it. My mind wants to have a debate about control, and the rest of me wants to lie down quietly in bed. I feel like a caterpillar in a cocoon turning into goo."

So, on the one hand, I do see that we do not need a "messiah" - we are all the messiahs for each other here, without even knowing it (in that, by our very existence and presence we provide the mirrors for each other that facilitate the awakening process). And on the other hand, I see that our will seems to have very little to do with the actual awakening process. In fact, in my own experience, my own personal will (ego?) seems to get in the way.

so that's my two cents on the matter anyway.

[The Freedom Train]

Yes TargeT the split has always been there. In True-man show terms it is the dialogue between those who are invested in maintaining the illusion, and those who want to 'break out', whatever breakout means.

Note the mischacterizations. I read several boards, and Trump-promoting posters are all using the same playbook.

1) Anyone who disagrees with Trump is a 'butthurt liberal Hilary supporter' who needs to 'deal with it'
2) The MSM is 'controlled', the alt media is 'free'.
3) We are supposed to be shocked and surprised that Trump 'came out of nowhere' despite the fact that Oprah was asking him to run for President decades ago. The establisment knows we don't like them, so they try and paint their next choice as a maverick outsider, just like they did with Obama.

We are also told we need to 'wait and see' about Trump. Waiting and seeing is what this part of the media has been doing for nearly a decade.

The healthiest thing to do is take a step back, admit both sides of politics are co-opted, and try and build a future without them.

Right on. Regarding building a future without them - apparently it is a necessary part of the drama, for now.

[TargeT]

I think it must be very attractive and VERY relieving to think that "something" has things "in hand"... in fact I think it's what was engineered into us genetic-slave-labor Plebs, seeing an authority as a savior and someone who will "do for us".Once we have something to have faith in (be it religion, government, what ever) we tend to be pretty complacent and pliable.

I personally find this a very dis-empowering attitude as you are effectively giving up your power to an outside entity and hoping for the best, in my experience this type of situation (someone else saving you) rarely happens, and when it does it's never what you originally thought it was (ulterior motives..).

It is amazing to me how, in mostly every discussion I find on this forum, for me it oftentimes boils down to philosophical concepts like free will versus determinism.

I think its all about free will, not determinism at all. Determinism is another way of "giver your power up".

Free will however, doesn't mean "uncontested free will"... Between an easy choice and a hard choice, I'd rather see the outcome of the hard one; it's more telling to "who the person is". I'm also of a mind set that we are all the same thing, objectively experiencing our selves in a subjective way.

Now that has some philosophical implications that are far beyond the scope of this thread, but in short:

Yes we do have pre-programmed tendencies, but this is not determinism, more like... momentum. Momentum can be overcome, though the more of it there is the harder it is to do.... some of our programming has a LOT of momentum behind it, for example: the concept of individuality when we clearly are a part of a collective & will even die when separated from human contact for too long.

There are many such topics with a high level of kinetic energy...





So, on the one hand, I do see that we do not need a "messiah" - we are all the messiahs for each other here, without even knowing it (in that, by our very existence and presence we provide the mirrors for each other that facilitate the awakening process). And on the other hand, I see that our will seems to have very little to do with the actual awakening process. In fact, in my own experience, my own personal will (ego?) seems to get in the way.

so that's my two cents on the matter anyway.

I think our will has everything todo with it, but the disposition is, in the majority; lacking.

It is HARD to question strongly held beliefs, it is HARD to question things you "know" & self evaluate based on that... not many people are willing to do hard things even when they KNOW there will be great benefit.

[AutumnW]

I think it must be very attractive and VERY relieving to think that "something" has things "in hand"... in fact I think it's what was engineered into us genetic-slave-labor Plebs, seeing an authority as a savior and someone who will "do for us".Once we have something to have faith in (be it religion, government, what ever) we tend to be pretty complacent and pliable.

I personally find this a very dis-empowering attitude as you are effectively giving up your power to an outside entity and hoping for the best, in my experience this type of situation (someone else saving you) rarely happens, and when it does it's never what you originally thought it was (ulterior motives..).

It is amazing to me how, in mostly every discussion I find on this forum, for me it oftentimes boils down to philosophical concepts like free will versus determinism.

Since it seems to me like most people here on the forum are awakening, then the question remains - how much of that process is determined by the assertion of our own wills, and how much of that process is out of our direct, individual control?

I would like to add a musing I posted on another thread about dreams, regarding the collective awakening process:

"I would like to say that my hope is for all of us to fulfill this destiny collectively. I believe, in fact, as I move through each day and assimilate new information and experiences, that it is inevitable.

We are all in this together.

There is no need for a messiah, because we are all leading each other, unwittingly, to our collective salvation.

I am watching myself relax into the eternal flow, as +dim so eloquently puts it, in the face of extreme adversity and the most triggering events of my life. I am in awe of this process. The sense of calm, peace, stillness that I am experiencing is - ineffable. My mind cannot explain it. My mind wants to have a debate about control, and the rest of me wants to lie down quietly in bed. I feel like a caterpillar in a cocoon turning into goo."

So, on the one hand, I do see that we do not need a "messiah" - we are all the messiahs for each other here, without even knowing it (in that, by our very existence and presence we provide the mirrors for each other that facilitate the awakening process). And on the other hand, I see that our will seems to have very little to do with the actual awakening process. In fact, in my own experience, my own personal will (ego?) seems to get in the way.

so that's my two cents on the matter anyway.

Everybody ought to print out your post and paste it on their fridge! So eloquent and so true. You are wise and a true delight. Thank you.

[Ron Mauer Sr]

We are the answer, not political leaders. When humans become so clever, so smart, so intuitive that humans can no longer be manipulated we will have found the answer from within ourselves. Self empowerment and knowledge is required. Giving power away to politicians gets us more of what we have had from government.

[AutumnW]

Target,

After years of reading about how intelligence agencies and operations work and also about how psychopaths operate to hook people, it's readily apparent that an operative or a psychopath can get a read on you within five minutes. Once they get their read they can do an end run around your intuition. This is where people get so messed up by them.

Our intuition is the product of myriad insights gleaned from personal experience, social milieu etc.. through our formative years. After a certain point in our lives, confirmation bias takes over. Our minds become less plastic, with age and we become more set in our beliefs.

People think they can't be fooled, that their intuition will always protect them. In truth, anyone can be deceived along the lines of what they 'know' to be true. And intuition is a pretty deep form of 'knowing.'

[TargeT]

Target,

After years of reading about how intelligence agencies and operations work and also about how psychopaths operate to hook people, it's readily apparent that an operative or a psychopath can get a read on you within five minutes. Once they get their read they can do an end run around your intuition. This is where people get so messed up by them.

Oh yes, and look what we have now... Facebook, its ridiculously easy to profile people, even more so when they give intiment details on a daily basis... When facebook got popular the Alphabet agencies probably threw a party.

We are so ridiculously predictable and easy to read, yet at the same time CONVINCED we are unique and special (and thus: not extremely predicable habit creatures).

The cognitive dissonance is impressive.



Our intuition is the product of myriad insights gleaned from personal experience, social milieu etc.. through our formative years. After a certain point in our lives, confirmation bias takes over. Our minds become less plastic, with age and we become more set in our beliefs.

People think they can't be fooled, that their intuition will always protect them. In truth, anyone can be deceived along the lines of what they 'know' to be true. And intuition is a pretty deep form of 'knowing.'

I think it's worse than that.

I think most people don't have a good concept of what intuition is (or may be, I'm not sure I know for certain; but at least I acknowledge it and often depend on it). I think that modern media shows us sensational "magical" things to blind us from the actual, current "magical" things that are happening... if we expect fire balls and explosions how are we to be blamed when we miss a whisper and a nudge?

When I step back and look at it all there's no way I don't come to a conclusion that we are being manipulated by external forces that either are not effected by time as we are, or are "out side of " time.

But I always reign myself back to reality (Thanks Ego!) I'm special and not predictable at all, I'm totally not going to eat one of the 10 dinners I commonly eat tonight, I'm totally not going to drive the same route back home, at the same time, listening to the same radio station... Nope, that's someone else, I'm special!

[AutumnW]

Yep...Facebook. Getting people to actively spy on themselves! Perfect!

[Rich]

It is amazing to me how, in mostly every discussion I find on this forum, for me it oftentimes boils down to philosophical concepts like free will versus determinism.

In what way do you think it would make a difference if there is free will or determinism?

[The Freedom Train]

In what way do you think it would make a difference if there is free will or determinism?

In terms of the big picture, maybe no difference. Or all the difference in the world. Or maybe both at the same time. In terms of individual perspective and "progress" - same. In short, I have no idea!

¤=[Post Update]=¤


Everybody ought to print out your post and paste it on their fridge! So eloquent and so true. You are wise and a true delight. Thank you.
*blushing*

Thank you. I love you.

[East Sun]

He probably is not the answer to what a lot of people would wish for and i am not really a trump fan other than politics. as i said in a previous post, no one knows
what he will or will not do as president so cut him some slack and wait and see.
you can not please most people most of the time. no matter what he does he will be criticized and he knows that.

i wish it was in my power especially before the election to let women especially, know what the clintons are, period. don't expect me to educate you on that.......
I feel sorry for women who do not know the facts regarding that reality. but it can be easily found out......

the political system is skewed and all wrong as it has come to be.
ir's no wonder people argue undlesly when you/anyone is put in a situation where you have practially no choice.. you can choose this or that and nothing else LIVE WITH IT.
well no, we need a revival of the system. put your thinking caps on. we have four years or continue arguing on and on and on...........

not the answer? no, proably not But better than the alternative that's for damn sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[pyrangello]

To my Avalon family, I would like to please add one more thought to all of this, Yes we the people are the body that makes up a country, each of our countries, without us there is just land. We elect based on people to present a lead, if positive results come from that then more will follow and believe to make our countries and lives better. I gave our last president this same chance of optimism even though I did not cast my vote for him. I give this man the same optimism . Think of all the hurdles this man overcame, the R candidates, The entire Media, He used his own money for the most part to run and watched his family take the hits of all the allegations but yet he the man kept moving forward. And after the election Donald Trump said he doesn't want a salary for this job he volunteered for. Really. And he also said he will take limited vacations because in his words"there is a lot to take care of". I don't know about you but if I had his money and success and a beautiful wife, I think being propped up on the beach in the Caribbean with a margarita sure looks a heck of a lot better than swimming with the sharks and the snakes to try and get something done for a country and its people, that is unless your heart is in it .

I'm looking at this ridiculous wining cry baby BS the Democratic party is trying to pull, It ain't Bushes fault on this one. And now today since the DMC is saying it was Russia , people are coming forward that are disputing far to the contrary including the intelligence communities, then you have Ole Ms stein who from what hole she crawled out from , so they did a recount in Wisconsin and trump got 130 more votes, Michigan was heading the same way so that didn't work either, so now they are trying to work on the electoral votes, my god this sounds like a Soap opera drama of a bunch of wining babies who didn't get there way. Never mind the fact that the night of the election there were numerous reports of people voting and there votes that got switched from trump to Clinton right in front of them. Where were those investigations.Didn't here one report of it the other way. So thru all of this , thru all of the gauntlet of crap, the lies, and stuff none of us probably never knew about either, Trump prevailed.

I would submit to all of you to give this one thought, When General George Washington took the lead for this country (USA) to in fact become a country, during all the battles, all the lost battles, going from 23,000 volunteer militia troops to 4000. He never gave up . And what i consider angelic intervention and so did his men was the fact that he rode a white horse, was very tall for this time period, and never had a bullet hit him....................... Hmmmmmmmm!

[onawah]

I am just recalling how enthusiastic so many people were 8 years ago when we thought Obama won the election against all odds, thinking that a relatively unknown upstart, an apparent great friend of the people, etc. etc., with so many promises of changes he was going to bring about, was actually going to prevail.
It wasn't long before that all began to slowly unravel and we saw (at least, some of us did) how we had been played.
It doesn't seem to matter how deep we burrow into those rabbit holes, they just keep getting deeper and deeper and more and more complicated.
And so it doesn't seem too far afield to propose that really, nothing is as it seems.
I agree with Paul in that I think Trump may just be the elite's next move to bring about their NWO.
Perhaps they are just getting sneakier the more we are waking up, or at the very least, they are playing it cool and waiting for things to settle down before they play their hand.
Just because the Clintons are being routed doesn't mean the real behind the scenes controllers are worried, considering all the resources they have at their disposal.
But on the far end of all these moves and this waking up process, it may turn out to be like George Green predicted in his books beginning with Handbook for a New Paradigm http://www.trufax.org/handbooks/paradigmvol1.html
...it may turn out that he was right and it is necessary for this planet to be much more united before we will become a truly galactic civilization.
Maybe that's just part of the necessary evolution each world must go through.
Of course, the elite's ideas of how this should come about and what it should be like, and how the 99% feel about it are not going to be in agreement.
No doubt neither will have their way 100%, but hopefully it will result gradually in some sort of compromise that will make sense, and there will be the possibility for improvement and evolution.
There is no proven reason to believe this, but I think it is a possibility, and it's one I hope for.
We tend to dwell mostly on the bad news in conspiracy circles, and don't really get wind of much of whatever genuine good news there is, but possibly it's out there, just not being shared, or being twisted to look like nonsense.
In short, maybe we are at the end of the Kali Yuga now, and the only way from here is up.

[Fellow Aspirant]

Hi Sam

Well, I guess, to boil my argument down to a single word, I'd say "deception". As in ...

"I maintain that in order to be considered a lie, a statement must contain the intent to deceive. Absent that, no statement can be a lie.

I agree that we have a consensus on the ineffability of expressing the "All" or the "Truth" in words. I consider these two words to be interchangeable, given the proper context.

Any honest attempts to describe the state of knowing the Truth, or the All, or of the path toward them are, IMHO, valid - even if those attempts are expressed in words. No deception = no lies. That's all. :cool2:

Brian

[Chester]

Yet also, to attempt to describe that which cannot be could be considered... deceptive.

[Fellow Aspirant]

Yet also, to attempt to describe that which cannot be could be considered... deceptive.

Or valiant. Or courageous. Or foolish. Or maybe just too stubborn to give up trying to get a little closer to the truth.

If not, what are we here for, anyway? :popcorn:

Brian

[turiya]

turiya

You fail to grasp my point. Perhaps it is because I use words. What I am driving at is not profound, however. I am only taking exception to your claim that "All words are lies".
And yes, it IS your claim. They are your words. Nowhere in your "lesson" on the teachings of Lao Tzu is the word "lie". His message - using words :bigsmile: of course, is the same as every other great teacher who has become enlightened: the truth is ineffable. It cannot be expressed in words. This of course is ancient knowledge. And I agree with it - it's a given amongst those of us who aspire to enlightenment. But it does not mean that words cannot be useful tools for our explorations.

What I must call you to account for, however, is not this insight, so please spare me the third rate philosophizing. What I wish you to address is the falsehood of claiming that all words are lies. I maintain that in order to be considered a lie, a statement must contain the intent to deceive. Absent that, no statement can be a lie. What you are trying to say, I think, is that words are inadequate to convey the absolute, true sense of reality, the All. We can use words to try to describe the state of enlightenment, but we all know that words are only a poor approximation, at best. That should not and does not prevent us from trying, however. The great teachers use words and symbols and gestures and stories (in words) to show us the path toward enlightenment, but the journey is ours. To treat their words as lies shows contempt for their wisdom. So yeah, I get it. But don't expect me to treat all words as lies. To make such a claim is not to lie, but to reveal a lack of understanding.

Brian

Brian

Yes, misunderstanding is possible with word usage between two people, between many people, a crowd of people. But I have not failed to understand what you are meaning to say. On the contrary, you appear to not follow what it is I've written... its not a problem for me. It seems to be a problem for you.

You are revealing something significant, though. It is something significant about you.

Obviously, words are very dear to you - to the point that you think that they are 'your' words. And the words I speak are 'mine'. They are not. The words we choose to use - they are borrowed.

Think about it... When you came out of your mother's womb, did you bring any words with you? I would assume that you did not. It would be highly unlikely that it was the case that you brought 'your' words with you.

On the other hand, you were taught words, what they mean, and how to speak them. The definitions came along with them as the learning process took place. The word usage was taught. They came from others, parents, family members, friends, teachers - the society in which you live.

We use the words we learned from the time we entered into this world. We use them for the short time we are here. Then we leave this world. And when we go, we don't take words with us.

Another story...
If you are familiar with the historical figure named Jesus. If you know about the story of Jesus, then you may be familiar with the time he stood in front of Pontius Pilate. Standing there, Pilate asked Jesus "What is Truth?"

The answer Jesus gives was beautiful. But Pilate missed it. As any worldly person would miss, as perhaps you are also missing it... Pilate had totally missed the answer Jesus gave to him, it went entirely over his head.

Pilate asked Jesus, "What is Truth?" And Jesus responded with his silence, in his absolute stillness. Not even a vibration of a thought within the mind. That was the answer Jesus gave to him. He was demonstrating to Pontius Pilate what Truth is... Truth reveals itself in absolute silence. Silence is found in-between the thoughts that you think. In-between the words that are said. Within the profound silence of your being.

But Pilate missed it. He got impatient. Didn't understand the answer. Instead, he got angry, thinking Jesus must be so arrogant... in not answering him. He must have felt Jesus was treating him like a 3rd rate person. "How dare he do such a thing!"

This is ego. The ego of Pontius Pilate. He must have thought that Jesus wasn't respecting him. "How dare this 3rd rate person be like that to me! To not answer a simple question!"

If Jesus would have said anything at all, any word, it would have been untrue. It would have been a lie!

In fact, whether Jesus said anything or not Pilate would have misinterpreted what was said, just as he misinterpreted what was not said. Point being is that whatever word choice one makes, the chances are it will be misinterpreted by those that receive the uttered / written words. Because even while Jesus was absolutely silent, Pilate went on thinking - uttering words to himself. A man like Pilate doesn't know the meaning of being absolutely silent. A mind like Pilate's is a mind that is full of noise - the noise of a swirling whirlwind of words - a cloud of words cluttering up his mind. With a cluttered up intellect, clarity of perception is lost - and truth becomes unavailable.

From this standpoint... Knowing that all words are lies - then one will be in a position to not be deceived. If you think that you've been lied to, its only because you had an expectation of not being lied to by others. Knowing that all words are lies, then you know that a misunderstanding is quite possible, and most likely probable. Misunderstanding, misinterpretation, the perception of being lied to, it is actually the repsonsibility of the receiver of the spoken / written words... because of one's inability, incapability, to live without words.

How far have you come? How far have we all come?
Born into this world without words, and now one cannot live without them. How far does one move away from the truth of one's own being?

its not a problem... understanding comes through misunderstanding. Learning takes place through not knowing... it is not 3rd rate, as you say. Some day, some time, you will see it. You will come to know... what is meant... by the words I have chosen to use to point to the wordlessness. That will come later, perhaps - but that time is not now....

peace - out.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Autumn, I thought you might find this interesting.

At least more interesting than the derailment of this thread into the questions about what the nature of "is" is.

https://www.facebook.com/NowThisNews/videos/1266804300076358/

Live as I post. I will repost a recording if i find one.

EDIT: Link is now to recording.

[DNA]

I suppose the question here is to ask "do what degree to I distrust the mainstream media?".
For those who answer the question in the five to seven range, I can see distrusting Trump due to their being some grain of truth in what the MSM is stating.
For those who answer "10", as in I distrust the MSM so much I use them as an opposite barometer, then Trump being a possible answer is self evident.
The fact we have the CIA now trying to derail trump should also cause one to pause when questioning the hope folks here are placing in him.

[The Freedom Train]

I suppose the question here is to ask "do what degree to I distrust the mainstream media?".
For those who answer the question in the five to seven range, I can see distrusting Trump due to their being some grain of truth in what the MSM is stating.
For those who answer "10", as in I distrust the MSM so much I use them as an opposite barometer, then Trump being a possible answer is self evident.
The fact we have the CIA now trying to derail trump should also cause one to pause when questioning the hope folks here are placing in him.

I see what you are saying, but I still have the feeling that whatever we are being shown does not necessarily need to be taken at face value. Meaning, if the MSM is bashing Trump, does that really mean TPTB hate him? or is that what they want us to think? Feint, reverse feint.

There is always the possibility that Trump is "in on it" - that the MSM attacks of him were designed to divide and conquer we, the people. I still cannot shake the feeling that whoever is as visible and financially endowed as these people are is most likely in on the whole thing, whatever it is.

[Chester]

Consider the possibility that incredibly caring and intelligent people are performing the very most intelligent actions all and only to achieve a goal that has two very important sub goals... the first being to truly get the world out of the hands of a loose network of some pretty dark shadow actors and the second being to accomplish the first without pushing any of these folks who have the wherewithal to cause massive disruption or damage (and perhaps irreparable) to a point of desperation such that they may act on this capability.

[Sierra]

I definitely think Trump is part of the NWO. Look at his oilmen cabinet. Do his choices support his campaign rhetoric or the status quo?

His "plan to rebuild the infrastructure" requires money, lots of it. It is going to be paid for, not by us, but by what remains of our environment. (Trump has millions (through two companies) invested in the Dakota pipeline.) And do I think the billions reaped/raped by the destruction of our land, water, and air, will be used to rebuild the infrastructure or to line the pockets of the greedies?

I suspect it will be business as usual. Business as usually conducted by the NWO.

Open season is upon us.

[DNA]

I suppose the question here is to ask "do what degree to I distrust the mainstream media?".
For those who answer the question in the five to seven range, I can see distrusting Trump due to their being some grain of truth in what the MSM is stating.
For those who answer "10", as in I distrust the MSM so much I use them as an opposite barometer, then Trump being a possible answer is self evident.
The fact we have the CIA now trying to derail trump should also cause one to pause when questioning the hope folks here are placing in him.

I see what you are saying, but I still have the feeling that whatever we are being shown does not necessarily need to be taken at face value. Meaning, if the MSM is bashing Trump, does that really mean TPTB hate him? or is that what they want us to think? Feint, reverse feint.

There is always the possibility that Trump is "in on it" - that the MSM attacks of him were designed to divide and conquer we, the people. I still cannot shake the feeling that whoever is as visible and financially endowed as these people are is most likely in on the whole thing, whatever it is.


"Designed to divide and conquer"
I don't know about design. The design was evident in "Black lives matter" and the way the media would spin it as white against black.
Regardless of intent in so far as Trump is concerned, civil war is no longer a situation to sneer at.
Is civil war the intent in so far as the CIA is concerned when cohearsing the electoral college to not pledge their votes as their state has instructed?
Civil war is a very real possibility right now in so far as I'm concerned.

[The Freedom Train]

Civil war is a very real possibility right now in so far as I'm concerned.

Which would dovetail very nicely with NWO depopulation efforts and the exercise of military force in quelling the herd.

[DNA]

I definitely think Trump is part of the NWO. Look at his oilmen cabinet. Do his choices support his campaign rhetoric or the status quo?

His "plan to rebuild the infrastructure" requires money, lots of it. It is going to be paid for, not by us, but by what remains of our environment. (Trump has millions (through two companies) invested in the Dakota pipeline.) And do I think the billions reaped/raped by the destruction of our land, water, and air, will be used to rebuild the infrastructure or to line the pockets of the greedies?

I suspect it will be business as usual. Business as usually conducted by the NWO.

Open season is upon us.


I think Trump is the best presidential candidate to be elected in my lifetime.
God bless Trump, and God bless America.
I'm going to choose to be as optimistic as possible where as Trump is concerned.


My judgement will begin when we see Trump's foreign policy.
If Trump stops the war machine, the invasion of Syria, and ramp up to invading Iran, if Trump stops the killing and invading that has marked the presidential terms of the Demo-Con Barack Obama, then I will count Trump's election as a victory.

[Fellow Aspirant]

I have already answered this.

You fail to grasp my point. Perhaps it is because I use words. What I am driving at is not profound, however. I am only taking exception to your claim that "All words are lies".
And yes, it IS your claim. They are your words. Nowhere in your "lesson" on the teachings of Lao Tzu is the word "lie". His message - using words of course, is the same as every other great teacher who has become enlightened: the truth is ineffable. It cannot be expressed in words. This of course is ancient knowledge. And I agree with it - it's a given amongst those of us who aspire to enlightenment. But it does not mean that words cannot be useful tools for our explorations.

What I must call you to account for, however, is not this insight, so please spare me the third rate philosophizing. What I wish you to address is the falsehood of claiming that all words are lies. I maintain that in order to be considered a lie, a statement must contain the intent to deceive. Absent that, no statement can be a lie. What you are trying to say, I think, is that words are inadequate to convey the absolute, true sense of reality, the All. We can use words to try to describe the state of enlightenment, but we all know that words are only a poor approximation, at best. That should not and does not prevent us from trying, however. The great teachers use words and symbols and gestures and stories (in words) to show us the path toward enlightenment, but the journey is ours. To treat their words as lies shows contempt for their wisdom. So yeah, I get it. But don't expect me to treat all words as lies. To make such a claim is not to lie, but to reveal a lack of understanding.

Brian

[turiya]

With respect to Autumn... and this created thread...
response has been deleted...

[Eram]

I definitely think Trump is part of the NWO. Look at his oilmen cabinet. Do his choices support his campaign rhetoric or the status quo?



Actually... Yes they do!!

I have never heard him say anything remotely to not being in support of the oil industry.
Nor for the banking industry or militarily industrial complex for that matter.

Let's not kid ourselves about him being on the same page with most things that we have consensus on here on Avalon.

He is anti NWO though, by the mere fact that he is a nationalist and wants nothing to do with the globalist agenda.
He wants to end NAFTA and TPP, bring back the industries to the US, end the hot tensions with Russia, pull back out of Syria, which are point by point on the top of the list of the globalist agenda.

I'm very skeptical of Trump becoming a president that will do good on all fronts (environmental issues for instance), but I can't help but smile from ear to ear whenever I think about the big stick that he is driving into the spokes of the NWO at the moment.

[Sierra]

I definitely think Trump is part of the NWO. Look at his oilmen cabinet. Do his choices support his campaign rhetoric or the status quo?

His "plan to rebuild the infrastructure" requires money, lots of it. It is going to be paid for, not by us, but by what remains of our environment. (Trump has millions (through two companies) invested in the Dakota pipeline.) And do I think the billions reaped/raped by the destruction of our land, water, and air, will be used to rebuild the infrastructure or to line the pockets of the greedies?

I suspect it will be business as usual. Business as usually conducted by the NWO.

Open season is upon us.


I think Trump is the best presidential candidate to be elected in my lifetime.
God bless Trump, and God bless America.
I'm going to choose to be as optimistic as possible where as Trump is concerned.

Aw, that's so cute!


My judgement will begin when we see Trump's foreign policy.
If Trump stops the war machine, the invasion of Syria, and ramp up to invading Iran, if Trump stops the killing and invading that has marked the presidential terms of the Demo-Con Barack Obama, then I will count Trump's election as a victory.

Yes... you do know there is nothing left to bomb in Syria, right? The Middle Eastern wars started, and continued by the Repubo-Con Bushies, a CIA Borg clone, and a draft dodger like Trump? The Repubo-Cons that some hold responsible for the destruction of the two towers? When will people learn there is only one party in Washington DC?

And what do you think of that cabinet? Oh I guess you're right. The cabinet is irrelevant, we don't need an environment, and if Trump's sonny boys are killing nearly extinct lions and tigers and bears oh my, for the extremely expensive "sport" of a ducks-in-a-barrel-set-up, but hey, they just good ol boys, exercising the boyish hobbies of the 1%!

The choices we are presented with...

Operation Paper Clip did it. They really did it. A very, very, successful fifth column operation. (It was the temptation of more war toys that did it.)

You know how "they" say, to govern, to maintain power, one must have an enemy? Think about that. We've nearly finished genociding the Middle East, who is next?

Well, as Trump says, "And I say: Stop it, If it, if it helps. I will say this, and I will say right to the cameras: Stop it.”

How sweet is that. Right to the cameras he said it, by gum. (Did anyone take that comment seriously?)

Next assignment, learn to recognize a frickin' duck if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and sh--s like a duck.

Not that we had any choice... thank you for that Repubo-Cons. I would have voted for John Kasich as the least cringeworthy candidate against the Clinton Cartel, but instead I had to throw away my vote. That's because bad karma, I try to avoid it.

God Bless America. Sure. And begorrah, God is on our side.

Though I prefer, "And so as Tiny Tim observed, 'God bless us, every one!'"

[DNA]

Aw, that's so cute!


I laughed out loud when I wrote it, and yea I kind of thought it was going the cute angle as well. It's funny you noticed it. :)




Yes... you do know there is nothing left to bomb in Syria, right? The Middle Eastern wars started, and continued by the Repubo-Con Bushies, a CIA Borg clone, and a draft dodger like Trump? The Repubo-Cons that some hold responsible for the destruction of the two towers? When will people learn there is only one party in Washington DC?


I've got nothing against draft dodgers that are dodging a war no one should be fighting in the first place.
My affection for Trump has nothing to do with his being a Republican, it has to do with his seemingly not being a Neo-Con. I hated Bush and the obvious lie that was 9-11, but I sort of ended up hating Obama more, because he promised change from what we had experienced for the 8 years prior to his election and he only brought us more of the same.
This is not about Republican vs Democrat, those of us supporting Trump, especially here on Avalon are doing so because he represents change and he seems unincumbered and unowned by the Neo-Con establishment that's power is derived from the CIA. The very fact that the CIA is whipping together this Russia hacked the DNC so they affected the election and therefore we should have the electoral college vote their conscious against Trump should show you right there that the CIA does not own Trump and there for he is not a Neo-Con.
You say there is only one party in Washington DC, and you are right, and that party is the CIA and whom ever they put forth to be in positions of power.
Trump represents hope in so far as he may very well be able to avoid the yoke of the CIA.



And what do you think of that cabinet?


I said before the election and I've been quite vocal about this with friends and such that Trump's only avenue of success in so far as surviving and not being assassinated if elected was to enlist the help of the marines. Only a military might such as this can protect him and feed him truly relevant intel.
And low and behold to my utter delight he has so far selected not one, but two Marine Generals to his cabinet.
This is outstanding!!!
Secretary of Defense General : James Mattis
Homeland Security General John Kelly
And then there is
Environmental Protection Agency: Scott Pruitt
Someone who is a skeptic of the whole Climate change deal as presented by Al Gore, as many of us here on this forum are skeptical of such as well.
This bodes well for getting out of step with what the new world order wishes to impose on the US.



Oh I guess you're right. The cabinet is irrelevant, we don't need an environment,


Just where by chance do you think we are in the NWO's plans?
I'll tell you where I think we are. We are on the threshold to WWIII.
How would a few nukes getting dropped in your zip code affect your environment?


I would like to take a moment here and refer to Edgar Cayce.
Edgar Cayce is very specific in his prophecy that WWIII starts first and then the catastrophic earth changes begin well into the war.
Does anyone here not think the timing here is quite suspect?
Why do the earth changes start AFTER WWIII is well underway.
I do not think it is suspect, I think it is self explanatory.
You see once World War III starts, the PTB on both sides of the globe will begin using earthquake weaponry, technology that has been talked about on this forum, and I for one think that this technology absolutely exists.
So we have WWIII, a few nukes dropped, then the earthquake technology and then basically Edgar Cayce's shifting of the axis which will kill 99.99% of us.
How is that for affecting the environment?



and if Trump's sonny boys are killing nearly extinct lions and tigers and bears oh my, for the extremely expensive "sport" of a ducks-in-a-barrel-set-up, but hey, they just good ol boys, exercising the boyish hobbies of the 1%!


When the situation is as dire as my previous post states it is, I don't care one rat's ass about those lions, tigers and bears.
If the situations I've outlined comes to pass the only lions, tigers and bears left will be in an underground DUMB somewhere.
But, just to show you I've digested what you are stating, I would like to ask you a question.
How much do you think Trump's sonny boys paid for the tags that allowed them to hunt those animals?
I'm guessing upwards of $10,000 a pop.
Most wild life preserves in Africa have no government funding. None. They survive solely off of the tags they sell for big game hunters such as you have referenced. And if no big game hunters were there to buy these tags there would be no protection for these animal preserves and poachers and the like would take their fill, leaving these poor creatures that much closer to being extinct, so although you may not see it as such, everyone of those animals killed saved hundreds if not thousands more.


The choices we are presented with...

Operation Paper Clip did it. They really did it. A very, very, successful fifth column operation. (It was the temptation of more war toys that did it.)


I agree, and the Nazi's who came over to America via Project Paperclip took over the CIA, with which they are ruling the country with.
And as I've pointed out earlier, Trump does not seem to be in their pocket.


You know how "they" say, to govern, to maintain power, one must have an enemy? Think about that. We've nearly finished genociding the Middle East, who is next?


The USA has long gone past fighting the fake enemy that was created via 9/11 and the people are waking up realizing they have been duped.
These wars have always been about and continue to be about Rothschild banking interests in these countries and the propping up of the petro dollar.
More and more folks are waking up to this realization and understanding what the petrol dollar is and what it means.




Well, as Trump says, "And I say: Stop it, If it, if it helps. I will say this, and I will say right to the cameras: Stop it.”

How sweet is that. Right to the cameras he said it, by gum. (Did anyone take that comment seriously?)


I took it seriously, and I am taking it seriously.


Next assignment, learn to recognize a frickin' duck if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and sh--s like a duck.

Not that we had any choice... thank you for that Repubo-Cons. I would have voted for John Kasich as the least cringeworthy candidate against the Clinton Cartel, but instead I had to throw away my vote. That's because bad karma, I try to avoid it.

God Bless America. Sure. And begorrah, God is on our side.


There is nothing wrong with hope Sierra.
I dare to hope.
I dare to envision a better future and yes God bless America.
I could also say God Bless the World and hopefully Trump's election can have a positive effect on everyone in it. :)





Though I prefer, "And so as Tiny Tim observed, 'God bless us, every one!'"


No tongue in cheek here, I absolutely will say "God Bless us, every one"!
I think Sierra if we could talk about this you would find out that we probably agree on more points than we disagree on.
My points for supporting Trump are all based on tin foil hat Avalonian logic. :happythumbsup:
It's not like I'm some guy who just got through watching a FOX news marathon and my basis for choosing a candidate are mass media induced.

[onawah]

Trump and the Phantom of Democracy
DECEMBER 27, 2016
by NOZOMI HAYASE

While I too think we dodged a bullet when HRC got her comeuppance, Trump is hardly my ideal either.
In politics today, real heroes are not likely to appear; the game has just gotten too corrupt, so what we have is Trump instead of a real hero.
What concerns me now is that Wikileaks and Assange appear to have been silenced and while WW3 may well have been averted, fracking and Big Oil, GMOs, etc. are not trivial concerns.
If Trump acts against vaccination policies, that will be a heroic act, though that won't be enough, with all the other dire issues we are facing.
Global warming is a sham, but clearly climate change is not.
What's good for business is not necessarily going to be good for the planet.
It looks like it's going to be a whole new ball game, but still a very uncertain one.


After the Electoral College vote, the Trump presidency is now official. While denial and blame games continue, this was not a foreign government coup d’état. The truth is that democracy in America has been rotten to the core for decades. It is meddled with by corporate lobbyists, Big Pharma, Big Oil and Wall Street –those who are addicted to money and power.

American democracy is hollowed out, veiled with a loud media echo chamber, bringing feigned solidity to its emptiness. Out of this vacuum emerges a madness for power. U.S. politics is a contest for those who are driven by insatiable hunger of the most callous, cunning and manipulative members of society.

In this system, only people who lack empathy and have an ability to advance self-serving agendas without concerns for others can rise to the top. The results of this year’s presidential election simply means that this person who many saw as ‘unfit to be president’ was better suited to play this dirty game than his opponent, Hillary Clinton.

Ascent of Trump

Trump, a perceived outsider, seemed to appear out of nowhere. The former producer of the American game show The Apprentice sniffed the vulnerability of disfranchised Americans who are continually betrayed by the establishment. He then quickly moved in for the kill, turning the electoral arena into a new Reality TV.

With social media as a hunting ground, this new Republican contender made direct connection with his audience, pouring out his charm and grooming them with fake promises. Deploying words as weapons of control, he managed to garner favorable reactions from his followers. His language cast a magic spell on his supporters where any contradictory remarks and bombastic lies he made bypassed critical examination. Emotions triumphed over reason and under the grip of irrational logic, facts no longer seemed to matter. With a chameleon-like ability to shape-shift and say whatever his voters wanted to hear, he was able to create a mirage and ensnare the populace into his grandiose fantasy.

What was the press, as a supposed watchdog of power doing during this Trump’s uncanny rise in popularity? Mainstream media did nothing to prevent it and instead facilitated this process. His bombastic comments hit jackpot high ratings for the corporate media and rhetoric not bound by fact was not only tolerated, but was actively promoted with their shortsighted mentality of profit at any cost.

WikiLeaks and the Democratizing Power of the Internet

There are a few facts that are not fully understood regarding the 2016 U.S. presidential election. Buried by much of corporate media’s distortion that deflects the real issues, many seem unable to dig deeper. This year’s election was an unprecedented phenomenon. This is not only because the lesser evil game was fought between two of the historically most disliked candidates, but also because of the role played by a new actor from outside of the U.S. electoral arena. Days before the election, a Forbes article acknowledged the significance of WikiLeaks’ DNC emails, calling them a “Holy Grail of understanding of U.S. electoral politics.” It noted how “few understand the importance of WikiLeaks in the eventual writing of the history of presidential politics.”

WikiLeaks has shown how elections in the existence of a truly free press will never be the same as before. U.S. politics sponsored by corporate masters creates a milieu of deception, lies and fraud that is fraught with corruption. These power and money driven politicians can only thrive in secrecy. When their actions are exposed, like Hillary’s highly paid Goldman Sachs speeches, crafted public images that suck the masses into their illusions of grandeur tend to shatter. Contrary to liberal’s hysterical rants of ‘Russia hacked the election!’, the defeat of the Clinton dynasty was a testimony to the power of transparency.

WikiLeaks, the world’s first global 4th estate, which operates outside of any government was birthed on the Internet. It showed the potential for emancipation unleashed by this Net. Much of the force of democratization on the Internet is being subverted to create mass surveillance and censorship. Yet at the same time, its effect of empowering ordinary people cannot be denied.

In fact, Bernie Sander’s campaign was built on social media’s grassroots organizing. With independent campaign funding, this virtually unknown senator from Vermont successfully sparked the idea of socialism and raised issues of Wall Street corruption, economic injustice and poverty at a national level. Sander’s largest support came from millennials. It was these natives of the Internet that galvanized his political revolution.

Fake News and Fake Authority

Democrats appear to be disconnected with this new reality of the Internet’s bottom up spontaneous crowd gathering or even worse are acting as an adversary to it. This was shown in their reactions to the corruption revealed in the DNC email database and later to Trump’s winning of the election.

On the second day of the Democratic National Convention, hundreds of Sanders delegates who learned from WikiLeaks documents about mainstream media’s collusion and the DNC’s rigging of the primary walked out in protest. Chanting “This is what Democracy looks like!”, they vowed not to go with Hillary. This crisis of the American political system opened up an opportunity for real democracy. But then, Bernie turned away, urging his supporters to nominate Hillary and sided with the deeply corrupt Democratic Party. His failure to seize this historical moment helped throw the election to Trump, who the Clinton campaign had portrayed as a ‘pied piper candidate’.

After all this came the Fake News explosion. Some established liberal media, freaked out by the country quickly turning red in this Republican takeover created a new red scare. On November 24, an article in The Washington Post made wild accusations that Russia was engaging in propaganda during the election to spread ‘fake news’ in favor of Trump. The anonymous site that claimed to have identified these fake news sites that the author cited in the article, was shown to be nothing but a black list that labels anyone who challenges the official narrative as untrustworthy.

Despite U.S. Intelligence Chief James Clapper’s claim that intelligence agencies lacked strong evidence for WikiLeaks’ connection with an alleged Russian cyberattack, it was way easier for progressives to ignore facts and spread paranoia, blaming the loss of Clinton on anyone but themselves.

In the age of the Internet, fake news can easily be manufactured and spread. Yet, at the same time it can be quickly shut down with countering views that surround them. Also, in this new environment, traditional media has lost its monopolizing power to disseminate information. They no longer can claim themselves to be the sole purveyor of truth. In the case of The Washington Post’s fake news scandal, The Intercept and Matt Taibbi of Rolling Stone quickly denounced and challenged its claim, halting the spread of this fake news report. Social media networks also countered the gatekeepers who tried to dictate what is real through filtering any views that challenge the official narrative. In the end, this fake news article was debunked, with Wapo issuing a correction on that story shortly after its publication. What this has shown is the publisher’s false authority and the establishment’s desperate attempt to reassert their shrinking legitimacy to keep people under their sphere of influence.

From Regime Change to Game Changer

The election is over and liberal’s hope to stop the rise of demagoguery is lost. The president elect began recruiting some of his rich buddies into his cabinet. Recently, he convened a group of Silicon Valley tech leaders to invite them into his new ‘construction project to rebuild America’. As this void of American democracy is being filled with more blatant patronage networks, new insurgencies of civic power are also arising. The potent and creative power of the Internet is already here. Those who have experienced it will not easily succumb to the reality being handed down to them from the teetering Trump Tower.

Just as the power of the Internet can be used by the oligarchic class to corral the masses, it can also be used to empower the people, through its open network. When the liberating force of a free net is claimed by citizens to create movements across borders, linking diverse struggles, it can give all a chance to not only change a regime, but to change the game altogether.

One game changer is WikiLeaks. With the creative use of technology, this Internet of the media built a robust network that is resistant to censorship, making it possible for the organization to be free from state and corporate influence, allowing it to truly serve the interests of the people. It has gained its own credibility through a perfect record of authentication of documents and rigorous scientific journalism that publishes full and verifiable archives. Despite mainstream media’s smearing of the organization, public opinion polls indicate that Americans strongly approve WikiLeaks’ Podesta leaks.

Another democratic tool that is available to people everywhere is cryptocurrency like Bitcoin. With this new invention, ordinary people now have power to create their own money and peer-to-peer networks that are not intermediated by any governments, banks or corporations. Just as WikiLeaks distributes free speech beyond borders and lets truth be discovered through each individual’s participation, with Bitcoin, free speech becomes an app that can be downloaded from anywhere by anyone and values are created through people transacting freely, verified by a consensus of equal peers.

In Your Nothingness, We Find the All

On January, 20 2017, Trump will be sworn in with the Oath of Office. The White House will become his new executive boardroom. With United States Incorporated, the Constitution may be slowly shredded off from his business contract. With the president elect’s proposal on Twitter to give penalties, including jail time or loss of citizenship for burning the American flag, coupled with his recent call for the expansion of nuclear weapons, many are rightfully fearful of the future.

Yet, wars and destruction of civil society are already happening around the world. Crackdown on cash and schemes of demonetization are taking place in countries like Venezuela and India. When faced with the reality of their national currencies quickly disappearing or losing value, people are waking up to the fact that these claimed values are fake and that they are not backed by real economic activity or anything of true value. More and more people are seeing bubbles pumped up by toxic assets and fraud of financial engineering that rent-seeks earnings of hard working people and creates money out of thin air.

In his speech “Currency Wars and Bitcoin’s Neutrality”, technologist and author Andreas Antonopoulos spoke of how “cash is being eradicated around the world as a scourge.” He then pointed out how governments are waging currency wars against other countries and their own people in order to benefit from a crisis they artificially created. He emphasized how governments and central banks can’t win this game, because “cash is something that we can create, electronic cash, self sovereign cash, digital cash – Bitcoin.” He then noted how this math-based Internet of money offers an exit from this old world of currency wars. He alerted the Bitcoin community that as the battle intensifies, those who create a new infrastructure as an exit from nation-state gated economies, and those who point to this exit will be called traitors, criminals, thug and terrorists.

This war on cash and censorship with Fake News memes are attacks on our fundamental freedoms. It is a battle for truth, involving the question of who will define our human reality. This war is now full on, yet mostly brewing beneath the radar. Just before Christmas, President Obama quietly signed into law the 2017 National Defense Authorization Act. This included the ‘Countering Disinformation and Propaganda Act’, which was presented to help counter foreign enemy propaganda, yet is actually a McCarthy era-style censorship law.

In this war on the people, independent media that publishes voices of dissent are being punished. They are now being called Russian agents, spies or traitors by this increasingly authoritarian state. Those who create an exit from this oligarchic rule by bringing truth from outside national party political lines will likely be branded as terrorists.

We live in a time when traditional authority and leaders have failed us and there is vacuousness in this space where a center used to hold. In the story of Faust, Goethe wrote about a universal man following his thirst for knowledge. In this journey, Dr. Faust meets Mephisto (the devil) who tried to trick and tempt him to come under his control. In the scene A Dark Gallery, Faust told Mephisto, “In your Nothingness I hope to find my All”. He then took the key and entered into this mysterious unknown.

Our quest for real democracy invokes this thirst for knowledge. It invites us all to enter into the realm of Nothingness. We no longer want to believe; we want to know. We will no longer blindly accept a world conceived by a few elites. Now, in this chaos and abyss that we are descending into, we may be able to find the real source of our own legitimacy. With a knowledge that springs from deep within, we are able to penetrate the deception of those who seek to control us and recognize their emptiness. In their nothingness, we will find the creative power that has always been there, power that can bring life back to this phantom of democracy.

[onawah]

Trump and the Jesuits; these views from Prof. Veith of Trump are very necessary to get a clearer and broader picture of how he really figures in, imho.

W5fr0BwpO3A

YtRBexcpFTA

[bettye198]

An interesting thread. It expressed some untapped anger voiced in words, premonitions, predictions, fears. Since we went through all that during the long campaign, I will not add to the fuel. But one thing that stands out for those who did voice positivity: WE as a mass of concerned citizens were part of a huge shift in consciousness during that voting.

I personally felt the shift - the yearning for an end to the corruption ( I know in my dreams :) ) A new voice, a new cabinet, and the long list of promises. I happen to be one of those who helped move mountains with that energy shift and I believe it created a whole different vibe. Maybe for the first time EVER, more people voted, more people of all ages held hope in their hearts for something that is talked about endlessly in private circles. People were so fed up, me one of them, tired of the tirade of the same ole. I lived through decades of Presidencies and listened to family and friends for years belly aching. I wanted, as they did to be granted hope. If I sat with the mindset that was generally doom and gloom that initiated this thread I would go despondent. I would feel nothing could or would change for the better.

I am not blinded by the choices of his cabinet however, consider that the choices were based on the intel and the experience and the bravado needed. No employer adopts the mindset of his employees but with supervision and feedback, the employer will never leave anything to chance. Remember this President elect loves to FIRE.

Guess I am one to allow the best to come forward in an individual as long as they are not bent on criminal activities or demonic meanderings. There is cause for our country to be great again. We are slipping off the edge of a mammoth cliff.I look at other countries with wealth and technological advancement and I want to cry. Look at China with its 186 mph bullet trains getting more advanced. Look at the countries who consider their offspring as a legacy and give benefits to their parents. I am only accenting the positive of countries. We know the horrors that present elsewhere yet we are part of that. Poverty, pedophilia, unemployment, companies leaving, gangs controlling all the prisons, our children unable to pay back student loans, illegal welfare costing the state more money than you can imagine, crime and homocide increasing. And more. Where do we turn if not to a political system that can help undo the worst?

Just like all of you, I believe those who had that hope for a true change will continue to put that energy out there to shift the consciousness of the officials and politician that have said yes to Trumps request. I just can't let my thinking go south as I have with previous Presidents. United we stand, divided we fall.

[turiya]

Well said, bettye198.

As we should all know by now... politicians are not the real leaders... they are, in fact, the real followers - they follow the voice of the people. Granted, that voice resonates with a collective quality that is driven by the collective will of the people-at-large. Hence, an individual is chosen to lead because s/he resonates with the ever-changing voice of the collective... at least, that is how it is suppose to work, without the strings that can be pulled from behind the curtain.

I am not one to go to rallies with crowds & crowds of hundreds or even thousands of people. Nor go onto the streets to protest. Because when people gather together in masses, the collective consciousness of the people-at-large drops sharply. Mob rule is pretty degrading if you've ever seen it in action. It tends to drop to its lowest common denominator. If the collective resonates at an IQ of 80, with a level of a kind of "herd mentality", then a cattle prod will be chosen to corral the herd - to lead the cattle to where they will get their food & water.

For this, I was a little concerned when excited crowds of people began chanting various themes like... "Lock her up! Lock her up! Lock her up!" or "USA! USA! USA!", etc. The more the emotional level of the crowds rises, the more comes a drop in being consciously aware. Identification with a crowd mentality will subjugate identification with oneself - being an individual.

Because of this - without people en masse actually being aware of it -- the display of lowest common denominator consciousness of a large mass of people can, in fact, affect the man on the platform that is speaking, i.e. running for President. The only way for such an individual to be unaffected, is through one's own awareness of the situation that s/he is presented with, together with the ability to stand on one's own principles.

I think Trump is one of these type of people... we'll will still have to wait & see how things come out in the wash...

[The Freedom Train]

Trump and the Jesuits; these views from Prof. Veith of Trump are very necessary to get a clearer and broader picture of how he really figures in, imho.

A friend told me that Trump was a Knights Templar - I am not sure where he got that information from, but this is very interesting - thank you for posting!

[Cidersomerset]

I have been pro Trump in the Donald v Hillary battle , but the war is
far from over ..............

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?90590-Transition-into-Trump&p=1123802&viewfull=1#post1123802


Brandon Smith, of Alt-Market.com, nails it again. Here's some snippets from his latest piece,
explaining that Donald Trump is not the "great hope" for cleaning up the swamp in Washington. The
US Presidential election was a well scripted play, with a hero, Trump, and a villain, Hillary Clinton.
Trump won because the elite wanted him to win.


David Icke and others have been raising these concerns for months and
there are signs from his picks that things can go wrong. Everyone it seems
would rather Trump than Clinton , which is where I and many others are
coming from. Now whether he will be able to deliver the slow down of
'globalisation' is another . We know TPTB and their 'bankster ' puppets
always back both sides and many a dictator or Royal family , if they have
the power and resources that suit their control meme's.

Trump does have qualities that may protect against them , but he is open
to black mail , threats to his family and ultimately assassination if he does
cut the head from the tail of these power full blood line families and their
minions.

We certainly are living in interesting times and as David Icke said back
in 2009/10 when all the focus was on 2012 , is that he did not see that
date particularly significant, but the period of 2016/17/18 as pivotal
years and is why he started his on going world wide tour earlier this
year and will continue during this period. There is no doubt 2016 has
been dramatic and shows no sign of ending yet . If Clinton had got
in WW111 would probably being set in motion now with more help for
the rebels and ISIS in Syria and Iraq and possible more intrigue in the
Ukraine. At least Trump will hopefully slow this down and depending
which 'power group' behind the scenes ends up backing him , will
see how far they will let him go. I certainly wish him good luck.

I have put some good vids among the 'political/media chatter on Pauls
thread as the death throws of the Obama regime kick in....

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?95187-Obama-orders-Russia-expulsions-sanctions-for-interference-in-2016-election&p=1123720&viewfull=1#post1123720


Meanwhile two of Trumps ardent critics Tweedle Dee and Tweedle dum are
getting award for something or other ?


Ukraine: Poroshenko awards Orders of Ukraine to US Senators McCain and Graham

HnMb1R1XsyM

30 December 2016

President Petro Poroshenko presented US Senators John McCain and Lindsey
Graham with the Order of Freedom and the Order of Prince Yaroslav the Wise
respectively, ahead of a US delegation meeting in Kiev on Friday.


===========================================
===========================================
===========================================

You may or may not like or agree with David but he is a very hard working
researcher connecting dots in many areas and geo political views are
gained from a life time observation in and out of the mainstream....

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?69621-Ukraine-Crimea-Syria-Israel-Iran-Putin-and-World-War-III&p=1123453&viewfull=1#post1123453

David is one of the best geo political analysts and he gives his views on 2016 into 2017.....


2016 - 'It is, perhaps, the end of the beginning' - The David Icke Videocast/Podcast Trailer

-Uhxyev7gI4

Published on 29 Dec 2016

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?90590-Transition-into-Trump&p=1123802#post1123802

[onawah]

See more here:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?90590-Transition-into-Trump&p=1123782&viewfull=1#post1123782
as follows:

In: The Trump Card:
jLhzIHrEuTE
Prof. Walter Veith explains very well how the Hegelian Dialectic works and has been used in the two party systems, keeping control always in the controller's hands, and how this is even explained in the prophecies in the Book of Revelations and Book of Daniel.
(You don't have to be a believer in the Bible to see how this might be so, given what we've heard from whistleblowers about the Annunaki and how they may have used time travel to plan and manipulate our history over the centuries.)
How the controlling Jesuits and the Vatican have been working behind the scenes skillfully during the US 2016 election, though Trump and HRC were somewhat interchangeable candidates in their eyes.
How both candidates Trump and HRC are of the desirable bloodlines, both descendants of Charlmange, and how Obama's bloodline was acceptable as well.
How Trump's running mate Mike Pence describes himself as a thoroughly Catholic born-again Evangelical Catholic Christian Conservative, a Catholic Youth Minister who wanted to be a priest.
How Trump was influenced and shaped by his Jesuit schooling/training, having attended the Jesuit Fordham University for 2 years.
(Pence's rival for the Vice Presidency, Tim Kain, a Harvard Divinity School graduate who attended a Jesuit high school, is known as a " Pope Francis Catholic". )
How Trump has been described as a 'born again Christian", a Presbyterian Protestant and a Sunday church goer.
How Pope Francis has been calling for the union of Evangelicals, Catholics, Protestants (and indeed, all religions, including Islam) under the Church.
Not to mention a union of Church and State.
He takes a look at the long list of Trump's Evangelical Advisory Board including the likes of Michelle Bachman, Pentecostals Kenneth and Gloria Copeland, "megachurch pastor"Jack Graham, Jerry Fallwell Jr. and many others, many of whom have been negotiating with the papacy for reunion of all Christians, and the Church and State.
And there was, of course, heavy influencing from these people among their parishioners to vote for Trump.
It seems likely the Vatican's influence in this election has been misunderstood and underestimated.



Trump and the Jesuits; these views from Prof. Veith of Trump are very necessary to get a clearer and broader picture of how he really figures in, imho.

A friend told me that Trump was a Knights Templar - I am not sure where he got that information from, but this is very interesting - thank you for posting!

[jerry]

I agree he is not the answer, as there were none and is none with our current geo-political environment. With fake news and propaganda the division is mindbogglingly insane and at this point just grateful for the way things have played out so far.

[bettye198]

The Jesuit info posted has made me concerned from the start as I was raised Catholic and already my antennas were up with the Fordham Univ, Pence baptized Catholic and Tim Kaine doing the bidding as well. I fear that the Vatican will be sending in their messengers.

[onawah]

Agreed. I am having a hard time listening to Veith because he is so obviously extremely contemptuous of the Church, yet at the same time appears to be fascinated by the intelligence and the skill that has gone into their Machivellian manipulations over the centuries, fueled by an understanding of the susceptibilities of the human race which is almost uncanny.
I wish the talks were transcribed, because it would be so much easier to take in the information that way, uncolored by emotion.
I think I saw somewhere on the forum where someone claimed that he is serving the Church, which makes no sense unless his talks are actually designed to induce hopelessness.
He professes to be a Protestant, a Seventh Day Adventist to be precise, which is quite a departure from Catholicism, but still means that he believes the Bible is a true record.
Though his reasoning into the meaning of various passages and the interpretations that have been assigned to them by "authorities" is penetrating and very skillful in connecting the dots.
If he has researched sources like Sitchin, I haven't seen any sign of it so far, and it may be that his Christian programming is still too strong to allow him to entertain such possibilities.
But his knowledge of the workings of the minds behind Church doctrine has been very valuable to me, even though I have only explored a fraction of his work so far, and has triggered some thought processes into areas that have so far been very unilluminated, so for that I am thankful, and intend to continue exploring his material, revising according to my own understanding as I go.

The Jesuit info posted has made me concerned from the start as I was raised Catholic and already my antennas were up with the Fordham Univ, Pence baptized Catholic and Tim Kaine doing the bidding as well. I fear that the Vatican will be sending in their messengers.

[onawah]

On the other hand, he may be aware but not mention anything about the Sumerian clay tablets and what they said ( Sitchin's work, etc.), precisely because his background and support comes from the Seventh Day Adventist church, and such information would no doubt not be welcome there.


If he has researched sources like Sitchin, I haven't seen any sign of it so far, and it may be that his Christian programming is still too strong to allow him to entertain such possibilities.

[onawah]

I've copied following the part of the recent conversation on the Transition into Trump thread:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?90590-Transition-into-Trump&p=1124353&viewfull=1#post1124353

In short, it appears like the transition from Enlil's rule to Enki's, a slightly less despotic boss, but no real basic difference--a despot is a despot.Quote Posted by Paul (here)
Quote Posted by onawah (here)
I don't see how you've arrived at that conclusion, Paul.
Global chaos and misery seem to have always been the choice of the elites (and their masters) for the rest of us, so why would that change now?
Would you please explain? Thanks.
Quote Posted by Paul (here)
But international competition will be governed by the hidden hand of elites, so that the dreadful genocides, financial fraud, ecological holocaust, monetary and economic collapse, and destruction of cultures and people cannot and will not be allowed to happen again.
Ah - I am not saying that the elite will end those and other evils.

I am saying that the elite will condemn some of those evils, and throw under the bus some of the perpetrators of some of those evils. The elite will do this to build popular support, or at least mass acceptance, for the next round of changes, that increase the scope of the elite's global control over humanity.

I should have put the phrase "so that the dreadful genocides, financial fraud, ecological holocaust, monetary and economic collapse, and destruction of cultures and people cannot and will not be allowed to happen again" in quotes or something -- that will be the stated motive of the elite, not their real, hidden motive.

Though Enki has been portrayed as a kind of savior, such as here:
https://truthfrequencyradio.com/message-from-lord-enki-december-2013/
...it appears from the records we have of Annunaki rule, you can't have one without the other where Enki and Enlil (and Marduk, Anu and all the rest of them) are concerned.
It appears that Trump's ties with the Vatican put him squarely within that legacy.
And though his term in office may prove to be less terrible than HRC's would have been, it's still not going to be pretty.
The picture that our more positive whistleblowers have painted for us has been more life-affirming in the long run than anything that can be seen coming from a Trump presidency, which at best will simply be a stopgap measure.
The more positive future would entail an awakening humankind taking more charge of our own destiny, though possibly helped in some measure by more evolved ETs whose DNA we share, who see the Earth and her lifeforms as worthy of more than exploitation.
They have helped to avert nuclear wars, and assisted us in other ways as well, as William Tompkins and other whistleblowers have described.
There seems to me to be more potential in pursing a partnership with that kind of ally than with a Vatican controlled Trump presidency.

[AutumnW]

Autumn, I thought you might find this interesting.

At least more interesting than the derailment of this thread into the questions about what the nature of "is" is.

https://www.facebook.com/NowThisNews/videos/1266804300076358/

Live as I post. I will repost a recording if i find one.

EDIT: Link is now to recording.

I can't download the link. It looks like it would be an interesting conversation though.

[AutumnW]

I definitely think Trump is part of the NWO. Look at his oilmen cabinet. Do his choices support his campaign rhetoric or the status quo?

His "plan to rebuild the infrastructure" requires money, lots of it. It is going to be paid for, not by us, but by what remains of our environment. (Trump has millions (through two companies) invested in the Dakota pipeline.) And do I think the billions reaped/raped by the destruction of our land, water, and air, will be used to rebuild the infrastructure or to line the pockets of the greedies?

I suspect it will be business as usual. Business as usually conducted by the NWO.

Open season is upon us.

Here is a scenario that might possibly be true. First, one has to assume that intelligence agencies really run the world, not political figures AND that those agencies aren't under monolithic control. There are factions, rivalries and differing philosophies underpinning their agendas.





When I was studying the breakdown of the Soviet empire, in the eighties, what impressed me was who got the spoils after Gorbachev. Under Yeltsin, KGB did very well. Those who had access to military stockpiles, senior military officials, really cleaned up. The country was picked clean by scavengers, now known as the Oligarchs.

I think operatives within the KGB had help from American intelligence, prior to Glasnost to take it all down. It just has that very strong smell. I have the strong hunch that greedy agents who were also likely pro fascist, rather than Communist, got together with American intelligence of the same ilk and planned to dismember the country.

In this respect, one could draw a parallel between Obama, the great hope and change guy and Gorbachev. They softened the ground, angered people when they couldn't deliver, and then a tough guy was picked to replace him.

Is it possible that Trump is going to be the American's Yeltsin? How many more oligarchs will be created or further enriched by his gutting of environment, opening up National parks to mining, drilling, etc...Will he privatize social security? Where will it end?

Under Yeltsin, the Soviet Union's life expectancy for men dropped to the mid 50's. They have only slowly started to recover since Putin came to power. There are still monumental problems in Russia, though. My point is, Yeltsin nearly destroyed Russia and it was about greed. He was VERY much like Trump, personality wise.

[AutumnW]

I definitely think Trump is part of the NWO. Look at his oilmen cabinet. Do his choices support his campaign rhetoric or the status quo?



Actually... Yes they do!!

I have never heard him say anything remotely to not being in support of the oil industry.
Nor for the banking industry or militarily industrial complex for that matter.

Let's not kid ourselves about him being on the same page with most things that we have consensus on here on Avalon.

He is anti NWO though, by the mere fact that he is a nationalist and wants nothing to do with the globalist agenda.
He wants to end NAFTA and TPP, bring back the industries to the US, end the hot tensions with Russia, pull back out of Syria, which are point by point on the top of the list of the globalist agenda.

I'm very skeptical of Trump becoming a president that will do good on all fronts (environmental issues for instance), but I can't help but smile from ear to ear whenever I think about the big stick that he is driving into the spokes of the NWO at the moment.

He wants to dismember the U.S. IMHO and sell its parts off to the highest bidders. He is not a 'Nationalist'.

[East Sun]

bushes=nwo= failed
clintons=nwo=failed
pope=jesuit=nwo=failed
obama=nwo=failed

the people are waking up
trump= ???=???

[AutumnW]

If this is what a return to a multipolar world means, God Help America. The 'new world order,' that took a hard left -- the anti-democratic EU being the most extreme example, will likely collapse.

We are heading into terra incognita and I fear that, lacking a proper compass, we will end up taking a hard right turn. Many will not survive it.

[onawah]

Some good words for Trump from Simon Parkes here:
http://www.simonparkes.org/2017-radio-show-page-1
He said that Trump has a lot of Reptilian in his DNA, but that he also has spent time in the Pleiades, and that gives him the ability to avert some of the outcomes of the Reptilian agenda (such as WW3), as the Pleiadians are the ET race most able to resist Reptilian energies.
And he said that he thinks that is Trump's intention.

[onawah]

Borrowed from:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?95327-Obama-Federalizes-Elections.&p=1125594&viewfull=1#post1125594
oAp8AUZ9fRE
If Alex Jones is right, that Obama is federalizing the election process before he leaves office, possibly to overturn the last election's results and thus appear to trump Trump, then it would probably mean that either Obama would stay in office (which many have predicted has been the elite's plan all along), or HRC would be POTUS, which seems unlikely because she is in such poor health, and using clones alone may be too difficult and risky.
But all in all, it would serve the Reptilian agenda of producing as much chaos and confusion as possible, with plenty of Loosh for them to feast on.
And Obama would probably be an even more willing tool for the elite, now that conspiracy theorists know so much about him, his birth certificate, the likely real parentage of his daughters, etc.
They would be banking on gaining more and more control of the press so that the truth about these things could never become common knowledge.
Not to say that I think they will succeed, but it's best to be prepared for all eventualities.

[onawah]

What deal did Donald Trump make with Goldman Sachs?
Jan 12. 2017
by Jon Rappoport
http://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2017/01/12/what-deal-did-donald-trump-make-with-goldman-sachs


Wall Street On Parade (January 9) details the boggling Goldman Sachs presence on Trump’s team. My comments will follow the list of names.

“Trump nominated Steven Mnuchin, a 17-year veteran of Goldman Sachs to be his Treasury Secretary.”

“Stephen Bannon, another former Goldman Sachs banker, was named by Trump as his Chief Strategist in the White House.”

“The sitting President of Goldman Sachs, Gary Cohn, has been named by Trump as Director of the National Economic Council, which, according to its website, coordinates ‘policy-making for domestic and international economic issues’.”

“…Trump nominated a Goldman Sachs outside lawyer, Jay Clayton of Sullivan & Cromwell, to serve as Wall Street’s top cop as Chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission.”

“…Clayton’s wife currently works as a Vice President at Goldman Sachs.”

“According to Politico, Goldman Sachs partner, Dina Powell, President of the Goldman Sachs Foundation, is Ivanka’s ‘top adviser on policy and staffing’.”

“Then there is Erin Walsh who had worked at Goldman Sachs since 2010 as an Executive Director and head of its Office of Corporate Engagement for Asia Pacific…Walsh is now part of Trump’s transition landing team for the State Department and is engaged in prepping the just retired CEO of ExxonMobil, Rex Tillerson, for his Senate confirmation hearing this week to become the Secretary of the Department of State, according to Politico.”

“And there is yet another former Goldman Sachs banker, Anthony Scaramucci, who sits on Trump’s transition team.”

The first question is: would a Trump-Goldman deal benefit Trump in a personal way? Wall Street On Parade offers possible clues.

“Now the Dow Jones company, MarketWatch, has reported that Trump’s debt is held by more than 150 Wall Street firms. The New York Times has reported that Goldman Sachs Mortgage Company holds a loan on an office tower at 1290 Avenue of the Americas, a building that is 30 percent owned by Donald Trump.”

“Some of the Trump debt held by Wall Street firms, according to media reports, includes Donald Trump’s personal guarantee in the event of a default. The true owners of other Trump debt are shielded behind secretive Limited Liability Corporations…”

If Trump is in trouble with those loans, if he’s in danger of not being able to make his payments, then that fact could form the basis of a Goldman Sachs deal. Trump gets loan protection, Goldman gets a number of influential (and self-serving) seats at the big table in Trump’s administration.

Beyond this, Goldman Sachs is…I’ll let Matt Taibbi describe them. From his classic 2010 Rolling Stone article:

“The world’s most powerful investment bank is a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money. In fact, the history of the recent financial crisis [2008], which doubles as a history of the rapid decline and fall of the suddenly swindled dry American empire, reads like a Who’s Who of Goldman Sachs graduates.”

“By now, most of us know the major players. As George Bush’s last Treasury secretary, former Goldman CEO Henry Paulson was the architect of the bailout, a suspiciously self-serving plan to funnel trillions of Your Dollars to a handful of his old friends on Wall Street. Robert Rubin, Bill Clinton’s former Treasury secretary, spent 26 years at Goldman before becoming chairman of Citigroup — which in turn got a $300 billion taxpayer bailout from Paulson. There’s John Thain, the asshole chief of Merrill Lynch who bought an $87,000 area rug for his office as his company was imploding; a former Goldman banker, Thain enjoyed a multi-billion-dollar handout from Paulson, who used billions in taxpayer funds to help Bank of America rescue Thain’s sorry company. And Robert Steel, the former Goldmanite head of Wachovia, scored himself and his fellow executives $225 million in golden-parachute payments as his bank was self-destructing. There’s Joshua Bolten, Bush’s chief of staff during the bailout, and Mark Patterson, the current Treasury chief of staff, who was a Goldman lobbyist just a year ago, and Ed Liddy, the former Goldman director whom Paulson put in charge of bailed-out insurance giant AIG, which forked over $13 billion to Goldman after Liddy came on board. The heads of the Canadian and Italian national banks are Goldman alums, as is the head of the World Bank, the head of the New York Stock Exchange, the last two heads of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York — which, incidentally, is now in charge of overseeing Goldman…”

“The bank’s unprecedented reach and power have enabled it to turn all of America into a giant pump-and-dump scam, manipulating whole economic sectors for years at a time, moving the dice game as this or that market collapses, and all the time gorging itself on the unseen costs that are breaking families everywhere — high gas prices, rising consumer credit rates, half-eaten pension funds, mass layoffs, future taxes to pay off bailouts…”

So, Goldman Sachs wants to keep on doing what it has been doing. On the other hand, Trump wants a rising stock market—a symbolic signal that the economy is strong. Understanding that the market is manipulated by insiders, Trump would know where to go to make a deal.

Goldman gives him rising market numbers, and Trump gives them what they want. How much of what they want?

Another area where Goldman could provide help: assembling the funding for a major part of what appears to be an FDR New-Deal project to rebuild America’s infrastructure, putting large numbers of unemployed people back to work. The cost? At least a trillion dollars. Convincing Congress to back this plan—and also support Trump’s tax cuts—could run into a serious roadblock. The money has to come from somewhere.

It might be useful to analyze the ominous levels of public debt accumulated by state governments. The debt is floated on bond issues, and someone has to underwrite and guarantee those issues. Banks like Goldman Sachs are in that business. Trump may have approached Goldman with the premise that, by creating whole swaths of new jobs across the country, the states’ tax revenues will rise, and therefore the payback on Goldman’s investments will become more secure.

It seems certain that Trump is leaning heavily on Goldman to run interference for him. He is walking a risk-laden path.

Partnering with a vampire squid doesn’t inspire confidence.

Since I began writing and speaking about Trump (archive here), I’ve emphasized that his millions of supporters—who actually want more freedom and more of what America should stand for—have to hold his feet to the fire when he takes a direction that spells trouble and runs counter to his announced aims.

He is doing that now.

Here are two final quotes from Wall Street On Parade:

“During the primary campaign, when it emerged that Trump’s opponent Ted Cruz had received a loan from Goldman Sachs, Trump said that Cruz was ‘owned’ by Goldman Sachs.”

“During his political campaign, Donald Trump repeatedly railed against Wall Street with a specific focus on Goldman Sachs. In the final days of his campaign, Trump released an advertisement…that featured his opponent, Hillary Clinton, shaking hands with Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein. As the image flickers on the screen, Trump does a voice over, stating: ‘It’s a global power structure that is responsible for the economic decisions that have robbed our working class, stripped our country of its wealth, and put that money into the pockets of a handful of large corporations and political entities.’ As the ad ends, Trump bares his soul: ‘I’m doing this for the people and for the movement and we will take back this country for you and we will make America great again’.”

Has Trump convinced Goldman Sachs they can still make sky-high money in a genuinely strong American economy, with millions of new jobs? And without fake bubbles and crashes?

Has he decided he must have Goldman on his side, if he’s going to make economic progress—that, because of their power, there is no way around them?

Or is Goldman playing along and working Trump and outflanking him?

Finally, I wouldn’t bother bringing any of this up if I didn’t think Trump wants to do good things for this country. I have enumerated those intentions of his in other articles. Right out front, he continues his war against major media. He doesn’t let up. This is vital, because those media have been functioning as the prime eyes, ears, and mouths of the nation—and they are falling rapidly from that precipice. Which is a cause for celebration.

Jon Rappoport

[DNA]

Borrowed from:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?95327-Obama-Federalizes-Elections.&p=1125594&viewfull=1#post1125594
oAp8AUZ9fRE
If Alex Jones is right, that Obama is federalizing the election process before he leaves office, possibly to overturn the last election's results and thus appear to trump Trump, then it would probably mean that either Obama would stay in office (which many have predicted has been the elite's plan all along), or HRC would be POTUS, which seems unlikely because she is in such poor health, and using clones alone may be too difficult and risky.
But all in all, it would serve the Reptilian agenda of producing as much chaos and confusion as possible, with plenty of Loosh for them to feast on.
And Obama would probably be an even more willing tool for the elite, now that conspiracy theorists know so much about him, his birth certificate, the likely real parentage of his daughters, etc.
They would be banking on gaining more and more control of the press so that the truth about these things could never become common knowledge.
Not to say that I think they will succeed, but it's best to be prepared for all eventualities.


This would cause a civil war.

[DNA]

Billy Meier's take found here. http://theyflyblog.com/2016/11/20/trump-according-to-billy-meier-and-the-plejaren/




There would have been a catastrophic global atomic war had Clinton won
In an excerpt from the 663th Contact Report, November 6, 2016, Billy Meier and Ptaah discussed the recent US presidential election (original German transcript here (http://www.figu.org/ch/verein/periodika/zeitzeichen/2016/nr-57)). While Trump is still regarded as “the lesser of two evils”, choosing him over Clinton avoided a catastrophic global atomic war at this time.

US-America’s election campaign 2016
Excerpt from the 663th contact report between Ptaah and Billy from 6th November 2016
Billy …However, what I want to ask now: Some time ago you told me that in the US the most primitive election campaign ever about the US-presidency fortunately decided thusly, that the majority of the US-population would vote for the lesser evil, by which a world war would be avoided. About that however,I was supposed to be silent,, because the ‘walls in the centre have ears’, consequently everything would be carried out into the world and therewith also to the USA, which would not be good and could negatively influence the electoral process if certain elements found out that Clinton will be ‘sawed off’ in the election and that Trump will take over.
Ptaah It would have been really dangerous if you had told anything, because a very unpleasant and dangerous uproar would have come about in certain inner circles of government and in certain secret services if they had heard about what I entrusted to you. It would have brought about election-manipulations beyond compare, as well as life-threatening attacks against Trump, and indeed in a secret service wise as well as from the ranks of fanatical Democrats**. He would not have received any help from the Republican party, even though he belongs to it, nevertheless, if I want to disclose my opinion on his behaviour, I must say that he really represents a separate party, namely his own, thus his own one-man-party as it were
As you have rightly assessed him, he is, at least as an election-campaigner in his campaign-motives, chaotic and a catastrophic human being. However, about that I must also say that he is otherwise well-meaning and not bad, also in regard to Russia and Putin with whom he, in an honest form, wants to strive for a peaceful political, military and economical agreement. This in contrast to Clinton, who harbours sneaky and evil warmongering thoughts against Russia and therefore wants to carry out military actions against the Russian military in Syria first, and then also wants to carry out war-attacks against Russia itself. A fact in regard to her thoughts of attack, which she, as an enemy of Putin and Russia, has been harbouring for a long time and which she also wants to carry out. And if she won the presidential election then a nuclear war would be unavoidable. But fortunately this will not come about as I already told you on the 30th June*. Of course next Wednesday the world will be shocked when Trump wins the election, because his mode of speaking was, and is, not the most cultivated one, however, he has good basic approaches in various directions, which he intends to implement if he is not interfered with by his advisors and those who are might-obsessed and want to direct him according to their scheme, and most likely also will in certain matters, as it has been the case with all US presidents and will continue to be so.
However, if he succeeds he will set out against globalisation and also against the USA interfering too much in foreign nations, as it has done up to now and thereby neglecting the order in its own country, rather building it up again [the order].
However, time will tell to what extent he will be able to push through his basic ideas, because beside him are all the might-obsessed ones around him, who do not let him act according to free will, but who will try to steer him at their own discretion, as it was the case with Obama (http://theyflyblog.com/2016/06/15/the-scapegoat/) also, who was lacking the necessities to be able to prevail.
And because Trump is not really a politician but a man of business, in this regard he will have a difficult standing as president in his own government department. This will also be the case in regard to foreign policies, whereby also the machinations of the EU dictatorship will be decisive for it, because once he has assumed presidency it will make an effort, through renewed negotiations, to restore the close relationships and connections with the White House and the US government which it lost through his election.
And as far as I know the EU dictatorship will try to pull the USA onto its side and together with it form a political, economic and military might-coalition, whereby already very early a forming of a coalition is attempted, indeed as soon as the first shock has passed, which will hit the dictatorship, because it does not expect Donald Trump but Hillary Clinton to win the election, who has an engaging and accommodating stand towards the EU dictatorship.
Billy We will see what happens, whereby I do not doubt that your prediction from June was right and that the catastrophic human being, that is to say, the lesser evil will win the US presidency – thus Trump. …
Billy Once more a question about Donald Trump: You said that this man is well-meaning, not bad and in some things completely misinformed – what is to be understood by that?
Ptaah He is not of low intelligence and not the bad human being that he will be accused of being by his adversaries, who will set upon him and also try to cause riots, because none of them know which insidious thoughts and plans his opponent Hillary Clinton really harbours, through which she would trigger a world-wide catastrophe if she came into power. As far as the election campaign speeches by Trump are concerned, these are, first of all, just campaign speeches, which must not be understood as effective in their entire form, because the entire radical appearing ‘calling-out’ as you have often described such speeches, are only partially or not at all to be taken seriously, because as a rule these are always relativised after taking office. Additionally Trump is in certain things that he champions wrongly informed, as for example in regard to climate change, as well as Obama Care and other things, wherefore however there is hope that he will think of something better in this regard.

[waves]

Billy Meier's take found here. http://theyflyblog.com/2016/11/20/trump-according-to-billy-meier-and-the-plejaren/

..... Additionally Trump is in certain things that he champions wrongly informed, as for example in regard to climate change, as well as Obama Care and other things, wherefore however there is hope that he will think of something better in this regard.

WOW. Didn't even know the Ptaah/Meier thing was still going on and haven't paid attention for a long long time, but this is very revealing. This tells me either Meier was a gigantic fraud from day one possibly with the PTB's intention of setting up a longterm propaganda outlet to influence the future alternative crowd, or it was taken over along the way and is now a total BS outlet. What a bunch of crock espousing the leftist agenda! It has the same sentence structure and pompous tone to me as the Marciniak/Lamb stuff, as if the same computer guy is still in charge of implanting these players. Every day I marvel more and more at how tangled this info/disinfo web is.

[Daozen]

I decided it's a total waste of time arguing about Trump, Putin, or any surface politics with people who are probably agenda driven cheerleaders... paid or unpaid. The people who said they were on our side turned out to be tricking their audiences into a globalist state. All these "enemies of the elite" are suddenly fawning over establisment leaders. Surprise, surprise... it was a trap. :)

When I see the alt media landscape in 2017... all I see is this:

https://i.imgflip.com/1i2m2d.jpg (https://imgflip.com/i/1i2m2d)via Imgflip Meme Generator (https://imgflip.com/memegenerator)

[eaglespirit]

Trump is NOT the answer

WE Shall See...and Feel and DO!!!
It is up to US, moreso now than ever...Right Now!

The portrait and actions are turning rightside up, imho!

All hidden agendas revealed!

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?30405-Here-and-Now...What-s-Happening&p=1128907&viewfull=1#post1128907

[Maia Gabrial]

It's funny, but I don't see him as "turning his back" on us as some have suggested. I see that he has "turned his attention" to us. The hardened look in his eyes tells me he means business. Serious business. We'll see in time what that is....
Will it all be that he just told everyone what they wanted to hear, just like Obama did??? Both made many promises. Obama ONLY kept the one about change. (I wouldn't be surprised if he thought he did a great job ruining America and the World! Good riddance....)

And remember when Obama said to judge him by the people he surrounded himself with? Well, look who Trump has surrounded himself with.... Omen of things to come???
We'll see....

Let's not forget that lamestream likes to play with double meanings to influence public's perceptions. We don't have to accept that we're a "divided" united states....as we were with Obama.

[onawah]

I think it can go either way with Trump, and it's not Trump who will be the deciding factor, it's humanity and how awake we are to the NWO agenda and whether we are astute enough to use the tools we have and the alliances we have made with other races to shape our own destiny.

[Chester]

I think it can go either way with Trump, and it's not Trump who will be the deciding factor, it's humanity and how awake we are to the NWO agenda and whether we are astute enough to use the tools we have and the alliances we have made with other races to shape our own destiny.

I agree with this too. If Trump can be positive for humanity, what we do very well could make a major difference. I also believe how things are done must be done extremely carefully, thoughtfully... the entire planet appears infected to some degree and some of the folks are waking up to it. This is where the "be the change" statement really makes sense. None of us are perfect but we can all do better and better. And then there are those so "ill" (I use this word to cover everything) that (and this is all and only my opinion) if we can always lead with compassion (with "tough love compassion" when required), perhaps even the very sickest might achieve grace and release themselves from their deeply embedded addictions.

[onawah]

If this was really Trump's response
https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16174891_1204779146225524_1732607979675882608_n.jpg?oh=8fb05b262434e099fd7ed9f3b3cc3451&oe=5903DF42

to staggering numbers of people (women especially) marching all over the WORLD on Inauguration Day
(...see videos of millions marching in major cities globally here [I don't see any of them on youtube at all] ) :
http://nbc4i.com/2017/01/21/more-than-1-million-attend-womens-march-events-worldwide/

http://commondreams.org/sites/default/files/styles/cd_large/public/headlines/womens-march-dc.jpg?itok=PYZF7gxr

...then he can expect that it's going to be no picnic living in the White House unless he does what's best for the people and the planet.

and just as an aside:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2tOCsMUcAA_fYE.jpg
...that's the young actress who plays Supergirl on the current TV series of that name.

[Innocent Warrior]

I don't believe he tweeted that.

[onawah]

BTW, I don't see those marches as being divisive or just anti-Trump,, I see them as as proof that people from ALL walks of life ARE waking up, are not being taken in anymore by political posturing, and are demanding that whatever gains have been made in the fight for the health and well being of humanity, for equality for women, for protection of the environment, for justice for minorities, etc. will be protected, and that there will be real progress made now for everyone, not just for the privileged few.
There is a lot of energy being generated by these kinds of demonstrations, and it feels to me like more positive energy than we've seen in a long time.

[onawah]

Probably not, but it's not uncharacteristic of other things he's said that were highly offensive.
But the continuing diviseness doesn't serve anyone.
Following is an email that came out today in Organic Consumers Association, and it's in the spirit of what I hope we will be seeing much more of:


I don't believe he tweeted that.

https://action.organicconsumers.org/content_item/oca-email?email_blast_KEY=1364712

Today, Donald Trump will be sworn in as president of the United States.

Today, I'm announcing our #ConsumerRevolution and #PoliticalRevolution 2017-2020 platforms.

If Hillary Clinton were placing her hand on a Bible today, promising to protect the U.S. Constitution, we would be organizing a massive movement to change her positions on many issues, including war, Big Ag and GMOs.

If Bernie Sanders were taking the oath of office today, we would be celebrating his authenticity, and his solid track record (not just lip-service) of support for at least 90 percent of the issues we care about. Then we’d get to work on the other 10 percent—with hope and enthusiasm.

But today, we will witness the swearing in of a president who has signaled loud and clear his intent to maximize the profits of giant corporations—like Exxon Mobil, BP, and Monsanto and Bayer (whose merger he's set to approve)—on a scale never before seen in our lifetimes. Public and environmental health be damned.

Trump has appointed a slate of millionaire and billionaire corporate cronies to key, powerful positions, with orders to immediately set to work rolling back any regulations or policies that even hint at cutting into corporate profits. We will have an EPA Administrator, an Energy Secretary and a head of the CIA who largely reject the international scientific consensus that human behavior is a contributing factor to global warming.

We will have billionaire bankers running the U.S. Treasury Department and the American economy.

And yesterday we learned, not surprisingly, that the new USDA Secretary of Agriculture will be former Georgia Governor Sonny Perdue. Another millionaire climate-denier, Perdue is a cheerleader for the worst of the worst agribusiness corporations. Based on his history, Perdue will have no interest in protecting the interests of rural farmers, farm workers or consumers from the routine poisoning of our food, water and air by factory farms, pesticides and GMOs.

We have our work cut out for us in the coming months and years. As Frances Fox Piven, a professor of political science and sociology, recently wrote, we’ll need to keep signing petitions, but that won't be enough. We’ll need to, as she said, “throw sand in the gears of everything” just to protect the most basic of human rights.

With that in mind, we have developed two platforms that will guide our work, beginning immediately.

#Consumer Revolution 2017-2020

Overarching goal: Force corporations that sell consumer products, including food, clothing, drugs and personal care products, to respond to consumer demand for truthfully labeled products that have a positive impact on human health and are produced using regenerative processes and practices that not only prevent harm to human health and the environment but also measurably improve soils and combat global warming.

(1) Move toward making organic, 100% grass-fed, and regenerative food and farming the norm, not just the 5-percent alternative in the marketplace, by doubling sales of organic to $80 billion by 2020, and by increasing sales of U.S. grass-fed meat and dairy, and organic and pastured poultry and pork by at least 400 percent by 2020.

(2) Achieve a 50-percent reduction in sales of GMO food and animal feed by 2020, with the aim of driving GMO animal feed off the market.

(3) Force major food brands and companies that fraudulently label their products as “natural,” “organic” or “GMO-free” to remove misleading labels and/or transition their products and production methods to organic and/or regenerative practices.

(4) Increase market share for clothing made from organic cotton, wool and other natural fibers through a high-profile “Care What You Wear” campaign that encourages consumers to boycott GMO cotton and synthetic fibers.

#PoliticalRevolution 2017-2020

Overarching goal: Reform the current political process to create a democracy that works for all people, not just wealthy corporations and the 1%, by uniting the food, climate, economic and social justice, natural health and peace movements in a coordinated effort to support candidates, elected public officials and policies, at the local, state and federal levels, that support our common goals.

(1) Support the candidates and elected officials endorsed by the post-Bernie Sanders movements, including “Brand New Congress” and “Our Revolution.”

(2) Lobby candidates and elected public officials to support OCA’s #ConsumerRevolution platform

(3) Lobby candidates and elected public officials to support the “Our Revolution” platform, with the addition of:

• on climate: a focus on regenerative agriculture and soil carbon sequestration as a global warming solution, in addition to fossil fuel emissions reduction and renewable energy

• on healthcare: a focus on "Medicare for all" that includes coverage for preventive, natural and alternative healthcare solutions

• on living wage: a focus on raising the minimum wage to $15 per hour so that lower-income Americans can afford organic food

(4) Organize local grassroots meet-ups and coalitions to run candidates, for local and state offices, who support our issues.

(5) Oppose any candidates or policies that promote racism, sexism, homophobia, militarism and all forms of discrimination, whenever and wherever they arise.

(6) Oppose any laws or illegal attempts to disenfranchise voters.

(7) Support the decriminalization of drug use, including the legalization of marijuana, and oppose the war on drugs.

(8) Combat climate change by promoting candidates and policies that advance regenerative food, farming and land use, in addition to fossil fuel emissions reduction and renewable energy, as solutions for achieving zero emissions, for reversing global warming by sequestering excess CO2 and greenhouse gases in soil and forests, and for addressing our public health, water and environmental crises.

Why do we need a revolution?

Our democracy is broken. Under the Trump Administration, we could witness the final collapse.

The handful of corporations that control our food, farming, energy and pharmaceutical industries have corrupted the marketplace to the point that it generates enormous profits for CEOs and shareholders at the expense of workers, consumer choice, human health and the environment.

Our political process no longer works for a majority of people in this country, much less for the future of the common good. The failure of this process can be traced to the disproportionate influence of corporations and the uber-wealthy (1%) on policymaking, either through direct lobbying or by using generous campaign contributions to buy the loyalty of incumbent and/or future politicians.

These systemic failures originated and are perpetuated from the top down. They will be corrected only by a bottom-up grassroots rejection of the status quo, by a critical mass of citizens who hold a new, more hopeful vision for a healthier, safer, more equitable future.

What can you do?

Today, I call on you personally to get involved in our consumer and political revolutions. OCA and our allies will be organizing as never before at the local and state levels, pulling together the energy and talents of people young and old, from environmental, social justice, peace—every movement that shares our vision.

We’ll need people who live in and understand the needs of rural communities. We’ll need city dwellers. We’ll need lawyers and accountants. Farmers and factory workers. Moms and Dads.

We will have to work together, for each other. Because it's clear that our elected officials will not be working for us.

It’s time to get out from behind our laptops and cell phones, to break out of our silos, to break the pattern of single-issue organizing. etc.

Maybe we've all learned something after all the years of lies and deceit.

[syrwong]

Top Russian officials certainly don't think Trump is the answer. From RT:

Regardless of the results of elections in any foreign nations, Russia should expect the sanctions imposed on it by the West to remain in place, Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev said.

“It’s time to discard the illusions that any sanctions imposed on our country would be lifted. Obviously, they are there to stay for a long time. And don’t lay your hopes on someone else’s elections,” he said Sunday, in a speech addressing a United Russia party meeting in Moscow.
Some political experts both in Russia and elsewhere suggested that the election of Donald Trump as the new US president may lead to the lifting of anti-Russian sanctions by America and its allies, based on Trump’s statements that he would work with Russia. Senior Russian officials warned against such optimism, saying that campaign rhetoric does not necessarily translate into policies.

To think Trump is the answer means to think democracy America style, or on the whole merely by electing the "right person" can solve the complex problems of the world. This is rather naive.

[onawah]

Not just rather naive--incredibly naive!!
After 8 years of Obama, "A Legacy of Ashes", I don't think it's too much to hope that humanity is wiser now.



To think Trump is the answer means to think democracy America style, or on the whole merely by electing the "right person" can solve the complex problems of the world. This is rather naive.

oeDZIyGkGNM

[Chester]

Probably not, but it's not uncharacteristic of other things he's said that were highly offensive.
But the continuing diviseness doesn't serve anyone.
Following is an email that came out today in Organic Consumers Association, and it's in the spirit of what I hope we will be seeing much more of:


I don't believe he tweeted that.

https://action.organicconsumers.org/content_item/oca-email?email_blast_KEY=1364712

Today, Donald Trump will be sworn in as president of the United States.

Today, I'm announcing our #ConsumerRevolution and #PoliticalRevolution 2017-2020 platforms.

If Hillary Clinton were placing her hand on a Bible today, promising to protect the U.S. Constitution, we would be organizing a massive movement to change her positions on many issues, including war, Big Ag and GMOs.

If Bernie Sanders were taking the oath of office today, we would be celebrating his authenticity, and his solid track record (not just lip-service) of support for at least 90 percent of the issues we care about. Then we’d get to work on the other 10 percent—with hope and enthusiasm.

But today, we will witness the swearing in of a president who has signaled loud and clear his intent to maximize the profits of giant corporations—like Exxon Mobil, BP, and Monsanto and Bayer (whose merger he's set to approve)—on a scale never before seen in our lifetimes. Public and environmental health be damned.

Trump has appointed a slate of millionaire and billionaire corporate cronies to key, powerful positions, with orders to immediately set to work rolling back any regulations or policies that even hint at cutting into corporate profits. We will have an EPA Administrator, an Energy Secretary and a head of the CIA who largely reject the international scientific consensus that human behavior is a contributing factor to global warming.

We will have billionaire bankers running the U.S. Treasury Department and the American economy.

And yesterday we learned, not surprisingly, that the new USDA Secretary of Agriculture will be former Georgia Governor Sonny Perdue. Another millionaire climate-denier, Perdue is a cheerleader for the worst of the worst agribusiness corporations. Based on his history, Perdue will have no interest in protecting the interests of rural farmers, farm workers or consumers from the routine poisoning of our food, water and air by factory farms, pesticides and GMOs.

We have our work cut out for us in the coming months and years. As Frances Fox Piven, a professor of political science and sociology, recently wrote, we’ll need to keep signing petitions, but that won't be enough. We’ll need to, as she said, “throw sand in the gears of everything” just to protect the most basic of human rights.

With that in mind, we have developed two platforms that will guide our work, beginning immediately.

#Consumer Revolution 2017-2020

Overarching goal: Force corporations that sell consumer products, including food, clothing, drugs and personal care products, to respond to consumer demand for truthfully labeled products that have a positive impact on human health and are produced using regenerative processes and practices that not only prevent harm to human health and the environment but also measurably improve soils and combat global warming.

(1) Move toward making organic, 100% grass-fed, and regenerative food and farming the norm, not just the 5-percent alternative in the marketplace, by doubling sales of organic to $80 billion by 2020, and by increasing sales of U.S. grass-fed meat and dairy, and organic and pastured poultry and pork by at least 400 percent by 2020.

(2) Achieve a 50-percent reduction in sales of GMO food and animal feed by 2020, with the aim of driving GMO animal feed off the market.

(3) Force major food brands and companies that fraudulently label their products as “natural,” “organic” or “GMO-free” to remove misleading labels and/or transition their products and production methods to organic and/or regenerative practices.

(4) Increase market share for clothing made from organic cotton, wool and other natural fibers through a high-profile “Care What You Wear” campaign that encourages consumers to boycott GMO cotton and synthetic fibers.

#PoliticalRevolution 2017-2020

Overarching goal: Reform the current political process to create a democracy that works for all people, not just wealthy corporations and the 1%, by uniting the food, climate, economic and social justice, natural health and peace movements in a coordinated effort to support candidates, elected public officials and policies, at the local, state and federal levels, that support our common goals.

(1) Support the candidates and elected officials endorsed by the post-Bernie Sanders movements, including “Brand New Congress” and “Our Revolution.”

(2) Lobby candidates and elected public officials to support OCA’s #ConsumerRevolution platform

(3) Lobby candidates and elected public officials to support the “Our Revolution” platform, with the addition of:

• on climate: a focus on regenerative agriculture and soil carbon sequestration as a global warming solution, in addition to fossil fuel emissions reduction and renewable energy

• on healthcare: a focus on "Medicare for all" that includes coverage for preventive, natural and alternative healthcare solutions

• on living wage: a focus on raising the minimum wage to $15 per hour so that lower-income Americans can afford organic food

(4) Organize local grassroots meet-ups and coalitions to run candidates, for local and state offices, who support our issues.

(5) Oppose any candidates or policies that promote racism, sexism, homophobia, militarism and all forms of discrimination, whenever and wherever they arise.

(6) Oppose any laws or illegal attempts to disenfranchise voters.

(7) Support the decriminalization of drug use, including the legalization of marijuana, and oppose the war on drugs.

(8) Combat climate change by promoting candidates and policies that advance regenerative food, farming and land use, in addition to fossil fuel emissions reduction and renewable energy, as solutions for achieving zero emissions, for reversing global warming by sequestering excess CO2 and greenhouse gases in soil and forests, and for addressing our public health, water and environmental crises.

Why do we need a revolution?

Our democracy is broken. Under the Trump Administration, we could witness the final collapse.

The handful of corporations that control our food, farming, energy and pharmaceutical industries have corrupted the marketplace to the point that it generates enormous profits for CEOs and shareholders at the expense of workers, consumer choice, human health and the environment.

Our political process no longer works for a majority of people in this country, much less for the future of the common good. The failure of this process can be traced to the disproportionate influence of corporations and the uber-wealthy (1%) on policymaking, either through direct lobbying or by using generous campaign contributions to buy the loyalty of incumbent and/or future politicians.

These systemic failures originated and are perpetuated from the top down. They will be corrected only by a bottom-up grassroots rejection of the status quo, by a critical mass of citizens who hold a new, more hopeful vision for a healthier, safer, more equitable future.

What can you do?

Today, I call on you personally to get involved in our consumer and political revolutions. OCA and our allies will be organizing as never before at the local and state levels, pulling together the energy and talents of people young and old, from environmental, social justice, peace—every movement that shares our vision.

We’ll need people who live in and understand the needs of rural communities. We’ll need city dwellers. We’ll need lawyers and accountants. Farmers and factory workers. Moms and Dads.

We will have to work together, for each other. Because it's clear that our elected officials will not be working for us.

It’s time to get out from behind our laptops and cell phones, to break out of our silos, to break the pattern of single-issue organizing. etc.

Maybe we've all learned something after all the years of lies and deceit.

I far prefer to be ruffled by words (as that is all they are) than crushed by actions.

[onawah]

Some of Trump's more offensive remarks, such as those about "grabbing pussy" were not just words, but were actions as well.
Perhaps to other men, that may not seem that threatening, but to a woman, to hear such remarks from someone who is now POTUS, and to know that he has bragged about doing such a thing repeatedly, is not a matter of "ruffled" feelings.
It is disturbing to many women around the world, obviously, that this kind of behavior is being minimized and discounted.
There were warning signs when people were cheering for Obama unreservedly upon his first being elected that were ignored.
Part of our learning process would obviously be NOT to repeat those same mistakes.

[DebJoy]

Not just rather naive--incredibly naive!!
After 8 years of Obama, "A Legacy of Ashes", I don't think it's too much to hope that humanity is wiser now.



To think Trump is the answer means to think democracy America style, or on the whole merely by electing the "right person" can solve the complex problems of the world. This is rather naive.



I feel many people have woken up, and others have gone further asleep. And perhaps more have woken up, when you look at first the blatant corruption around the Democrat primaries and the DNC, and second at the enormous MSM influence peddling to get Hillary in, and the demonization of Donald Trump. Many many people woke at that point, and started asking questions and starting reasoning for themselves. I applaud those people, and know that the trend will continue - you can only accept lies for so long.

[onawah]

What is most encouraging to me is the trend in questioning the whole 2 party system, which obviously doesn't work (though the 3 or 4 party system doesn't look like it would work any better.) Something new is needed.

[boolacalaca]

:ROFL: It cracks me up --- they say the people get the government they deserve
then they complain about government not being the answer
--- that seems to say the people are not the answer.
as Shakespeare would say, I think they "doth protest too much, methinks."
Perhaps they simply didn't get what they want, regardless of the answer.
Either that or it will always be frustrating to seek the answer when the question is not fully understood in the true scope it entails.
Arguing about who should win the Punch and Judy Show might miss the point.

[onawah]

True, the basic problem will probably not be resolved until many more people understand who is really controlling things on this planet and why, but there are usually many steps that have to be taken before an individual is ready to look that deeply and to ignore all the distractions, much less to be able to make sense of what they are seeing.
It can only progress at the rate at which individuals are ready to take the next step, and that varies from person to person.

[onawah]

Also, it depends on how much imagination we can bring to the process, if things are really ever going to change.
I like what Jon Rappaport says about Imagination
https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2017/01/22/power-beyond-mind-control-4/
Power beyond mind control
by Jon Rappoport
January 22, 2017


“All thought is not the same. There is random static. There is repetitious and circular rumination. There is thought devoted to solving a problem or analyzing a situation. Then there is thought that occurs when one is creating something that never existed before. To blithely say that ‘externally inserted’ mind control can replace all levels of thinking without a person being aware of what is going on is foolish.” (The Underground, Jon Rappoport)

Consciousness wants to create new consciousness, and it can. Imagination is how it does it. If there were some ultimate state of consciousness, imagination would always be able to play another card and take it further.

In any arena of life, and especially when it comes to the mind, perception, power, empathy, and so on, there is always a status quo. It’s merely the place where a person says, “Well, that’s enough. I’ll settle for what I have. I’ll stop here.”

Sooner or later, this leads to boredom, frustration, problems, and conflict. It leads to a decline.

Imagination, which knows no bounds, is the source for the most adventurous explorations. It can have great impact on the material world, of course, but one mustn’t therefore conclude it is composed of matter or energy. Imagination is non-material. To think otherwise winds you up in using some version of physics to depict imagination—and then you are imposing limits on it. This is an error. Imagination doesn’t obey any laws of physics.

If imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, we’ve flattered reality enough. It doesn’t need any more. Imagination creates new realities.

You can create the same thing over and over, and eventually you’ll be about as alive as a table. Inject imagination into the mix, and everything suddenly changes. You can steer that boat anywhere you want to.

The lowest common denominator of consensus signals an absence of imagination: everyone agrees; everyone is bored; everyone is obedient. On the opposite end of the spectrum, there are massive floods of unique individual creation, and then that sought-after thing called abundance is as natural as the sun rising in the morning.

Sitting around in a cosmic bus station waiting for reality is what reality is. Everything else is imagination.

There are those who believe life is a museum. You walk through the rooms, find one painting, stroll into it and take up permanent residence. But the museum is endless. If you were a painter, you’d never decide to live inside one of your canvases forever. You’d keep on painting.

The relentless and obsessive search for all those things on which we can agree is a confession of bankruptcy.

When we re-learn to live through and by imagination, we enter and invent new space and time.

With imagination, one can solve a problem. More importantly, one can skip ahead of the problem and render it null and void.

Imagination isn’t a system. It might invent systems, but it is non-material. It’s a capacity. It feels no compulsion to imitate reality. It makes realities. Its scope is limited only by a person’s imagining of how far imagination can go.

The human race is obsessed by the question: what exists? It appears to be a far easier question than: what do you want to create? This comparison explains why civilizations decline.

Imagination is a path. Walking on that path long enough, you find answers to all the questions you’ve ever asked, as an incidental side effect of the journey. You also find power that most people only dream of.

[Chester]

Some of Trump's more offensive remarks, such as those about "grabbing pussy" were not just words, but were actions as well.
Perhaps to other men, that may not seem that threatening, but to a woman, to hear such remarks from someone who is now POTUS, and to know that he has bragged about doing such a thing repeatedly, is not a matter of "ruffled" feelings.
It is disturbing to many women around the world, obviously, that this kind of behavior is being minimized and discounted.
There were warning signs when people were cheering for Obama unreservedly upon his first being elected that were ignored.
Part of our learning process would obviously be NOT to repeat those same mistakes.

Yet, when some folks here on the forum asked others to stop promoting someone who had been actively doing far worse (at least until that person got some serious counseling and took a break until his addictions were clearly under control), there was vigorous defense... recall? Consider also the difference in vulnerability levels of the ones who had experiences they later wished they hadn't.

Also, I am unsure how much of the world folks here have experienced, but from my own experience, I have concluded that the media implanted attitudes of some and IMO way too many women in the US, to some extent Canada, to some extent the UK and to some extent the rest of the "westernized" (cabal media influenced) non-Latin / non-Asian world which is at least reasonably civilized... are far more "uptight" about being their gender (or gender preference).

If the Billy Bush tape shocked anyone, it's my experience that they are living in an isolated world... and I am sorry to say this. If the Billy Bush tape shocked anyone, then write off 80% of the alpha-male population and note that most other males go along with the talk. Many of these same males are loved and appreciated by many females. And trust me, females can be just as raunchy. And trust me, at least in many of the parts of the world I have been too, I have met many females quite aggressive. Never forget there is still the animal in most of us. So many parts of the world celebrate this aspect of the human experience.

I will never forget when I started to notice the media portraying men as nothing but useful animals that weren't very smart but were good for moving the sofa when needed and good for when "she" wanted to grab him by his tie and lead him up the stairs to the bedroom (late 80s and ever since). I thank God, this didn't happen world-wide.

If anyone automatically concludes that "the 11 women" rolled out (obviously scripted) was real, then I consider the word 'naive' might apply... and I mean that with all due respect, I really do. Because what most of us here do know is that the cabal associated agencies and media organizations are fully capable of creating it all. This doesn't mean that I am saying some or all of it is untrue as I cannot know, but what I do know is that it is just as likely a fictitious creation. In fact, I make that most likely... and not because I want it that way as frankly, there's far, far more important matters at stake... but because it all seemed too convenient. Why suddenly just after the tape and just before the election do all these women suddenly "come forward." Still - Regardless if true or not, this all pales in comparison to the reports received by many credible third parties regarding the actions of the one I alluded to at the beginning of this post.

So what I am suggesting is that it appears to me the post I quote above is a case of selective outrage and not consistent. So there must be reasons that in one case, there is a relentless attempt to defend and in the case of another, far less is made into far more.

I recommend looking at 'the why' of this massive inconsistency.

In all fairness, perhaps there might be something significantly different about the two cases (if we assume the worst regarding DTJ and we accept the reality regarding "the other") I am failing to see.

[Helene West]

Some of Trump's more offensive remarks, such as those about "grabbing pussy" were not just words, but were actions as well.
Perhaps to other men, that may not seem that threatening, but to a woman, to hear such remarks from someone who is now POTUS, and to know that he has bragged about doing such a thing repeatedly, is not a matter of "ruffled" feelings.
It is disturbing to many women around the world, obviously, that this kind of behavior is being minimized and discounted.
There were warning signs when people were cheering for Obama unreservedly upon his first being elected that were ignored.
Part of our learning process would obviously be NOT to repeat those same mistakes.


Many of these disturbed, upset females are idealogues. It's the same with race issues. There is never any CONTEXT with ideologues, ideology before anything and everything.

1) My aunt tells me in the '60s when she was a girl and started getting breasts she couldn't go to the store for her mom without some adolescent boy or man saying something about her appearance or body parts. She says the sexism back then was intense. That is the era Trump grew up in and was a young man learning the culture and discovering his own sexuality within a sexist context, etc. He learned that behavior from males around him - that was the culture he was raised in. And what if it was a party, he was drunk and he did it once? Sexism is much less since that time, hell, today women can be a professional and dress showing half their cleavage and can still expect to be taken seriously.

2) Am I the only female here that will attest to what females act like around desirable, rich men? They want them to come on to them. They are out to seduce men like Trump when he was young. They want goodies, gifts and glamor. I have no doubt that many females on a mission threw themselves at him.

The above is not a defense, it's Context. I'm a female and have no apologies.

[Ron Mauer Sr]

We are being played.

34863


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[Innocent Warrior]

Probably not, but it's not uncharacteristic of other things he's said that were highly offensive.
But the continuing diviseness doesn't serve anyone.

I’m not suffering from delusions of Trump being the answer but I do think he’s the right man for the job at this time.

There’s a lot about Trump I appreciate but this isn’t the appropriate thread to discuss that and I don’t care to debate it.

When I don’t know whether to trust someone or not I just take them at face value and hold them to what they’re presenting them-self to be. Time always reveals the truth in this way because it’s impossible for them to hold their presented line if it isn’t true. This is where I’m at with Trump, I’m taking him at face value, nothing more, nothing less.

In the meantime, if I’m a fool then so be it, I’d rather be wrong and give people a chance to deliver than be clever and shut down someone who’s potentially genuinely trying to do the right thing, or not. If Trump does fail then I’ll see that by his actions, not because I believe cheap attempts at discrediting him, like the tweet you posted (I mean no disrespect to you as I write that), which is absolutely a fake.

[Chester]

Beautifully honest, Helene West... the thanks button not enough.

EDIT: My poor eyesight is no escuse for originally misspelling Helene... apologies, Helene, but I got it right, now. Fortunately I caught the mistake myself.

[onawah]

I posted that tweet, not because I believed it was genuinely Trump's, but because it was on a site where it would be highly visible, and because I didn't doubt that it would be regarded as genuine by many due to previous remarks that Trump has made that reflect a similar attitude.
If he is going to unite the people of the US, he is going to have to deal with women who don't find his attitude towards women to be appropriate for a man in his position, and there appear to be a lot of them, and they apparently aren't willing to just wait and see.
It also occurs to me that it may have been orchestrated so that HRC, a woman, would be defeated twice in her run for POTUS, in order to disempower women, and also that she was perhaps chosen precisely for that humiliation because she was so corruptible.
The more we learn about just how corrupt she was, the worse it makes women look as a whole, or so I think the controllers believe (because they want the power to remain in the hands of men, and always have, imho. )
Like Paul ( see his remarks here and in other posts: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?90590-Transition-into-Trump&p=1129091&viewfull=1#post1129091 )
....I am inclined to believe that this election, like so many others (perhaps ALL others) was skillfully manipulated from behind the scenes.
That is not to say that I believe Trump will not make some good changes, but I think they will be primarily changes that are allowed by those who still hold the puppet strings, and he was hand picked because he fit the role.
But I don't think anyone can call ALL the shots ALL the time, so there may also be a shift in the balance of power that is going on behind the scenes, and those changes may be more favorable over time to humanity.
That will depend to some extent on how we govern ourselves and interface with our government while these changes occur.
But all in all, however you look at all the different sides of the kaleidoscope, I have to agree with Ron--we are being played.


Probably not, but it's not uncharacteristic of other things he's said that were highly offensive.
But the continuing divisiveness doesn't serve anyone.

I’m not suffering from delusions of Trump being the answer but I do think he’s the right man for the job at this time.

There’s a lot about Trump I appreciate but this isn’t the appropriate thread to discuss that and I don’t care to debate it.

When I don’t know whether to trust someone or not I just take them at face value and hold them to what they’re presenting them-self to be. Time always reveals the truth in this way because it’s impossible for them to hold their presented line if it isn’t true. This is where I’m at with Trump, I’m taking him at face value, nothing more, nothing less.

In the meantime, if I’m a fool then so be it, I’d rather be wrong and give people a chance to deliver than be clever and shut down someone who’s potentially genuinely trying to do the right thing, or not. If Trump does fail then I’ll see that by his actions, not because I believe cheap attempts at discrediting him, like the tweet you posted (I mean no disrespect to you as I write that), which is absolutely a fake.

[NancyV]

I never found anything Trump did or said to be offensive, probably because I've heard much worse from many other men. One of the things I'm sick of is politicians pretending they never use so called offensive words or "locker room" talk because they all do. I found it much more offensive that Bill Clinton was screwing around with so many younger women and perhaps even being guilty of rape. I find it more offensive that Hillary Clinton was probably involved in enabling her husband and certainly demeaning and attacking the women who accused him of rape and/or having sex with them. I also find it more offensive that they have probably ordered more murders than we can imagine. I find it more offensive that Obama has killed so many civilians with drones. Of course I could go on and on but I think you get the idea.

Trump is a genuine A-hole. I just happen to like that type of man and have been married to a major A-hole for 21 years. I find macho type men to be lots of fun if you don't get easily offended. Could Trump have been set up to win?? Anything is possible but I don't think so. Too many of the elites seemed genuinely shocked that he won. I'm personally very happy that he won because I think we avoided a major war and a huge economic downturn that would have happened if Hillary had won.

I'm going to enjoy this very entertaining show for the next 4, hopefully 8, years!!

[Bruno]

While I was not shocked by Donald Trump's comments about women and minorities/immigrants I was and am shocked by the lack of concern over these comments by many. I know that people are racist and sexist and homophobic and many other not so nice things. It's just that in a civil society I thought we at least tried to rise above our more base nature's and when we are caught frolicking in the muck we at least try to apologize and do better, especially when we are looking to be a leader of not just other macho white men but everyone. When people in power behave in a way that suggests only a certain segment in society is worthy of respect I do find it frightening. I don't think that's an over reaction. I don't want a return to the 1950's or before in terms of women or minority rights so language does matter to me. I am happy that Trump won in the sense that it meant we didn't get Hilary. I am nervous about what someone like him means for civil rights though. The LGBT pages have already been removed from the White House website.

[onawah]

Agreed, but that didn't really leave us with much of a choice. And the controllers at the very top might not have clued the many shocked elites into what their planned outcome was going to be.

I found it much more offensive that Bill Clinton was screwing around with so many younger women and perhaps even being guilty of rape. I find it more offensive that Hillary Clinton was probably involved in enabling her husband and certainly demeaning and attacking the women who accused him of rape and/or having sex with them. I also find it more offensive that they have probably ordered more murders than we can imagine. I find it more offensive that Obama has killed so many civilians with drones. Of course I could go on and on but I think you get the idea.

Could Trump have been set up to win?? Anything is possible but I don't think so. Too many of the elites seemed genuinely shocked that he won.

[turiya]

Most had no clue in what was going to be the outcome... including those who you would consider to be "the controllers at the very top" . Face it - they had no clue... and are still running around - like chickens - trying to figure out what had happened???

You make for a good Conspiracy Theorist... but they were blind-sided with the rest of the sheople... plain & simple: Trump took most by surprise!

[onawah]

I don't think we really know who is really at the very top.

[turiya]

Nobody... cuz Trump is driving the train at the moment... at least, for here in America...

[onawah]

I will refer again to Paul's post here:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?90590-Transition-into-Trump&p=1129091&viewfull=1#post1129091
..and add that some whistleblowers have stated that the elite take orders from those who are probably not even on this planet, or in this dimension.

[onawah]

And will also refer to Curious77's post here:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?95617-Draco-Reptilian-control-of-governmentTompkins-interview-by-Kerry-Cassidy-Camelot&p=1129498#post1129498
Where, although Tompkins said that Trump is not a Reptilian, did NOT say that he is free of their influence.
And of course, Tompkins is not the only one who has talked at length about the role Reptilians have long taken in human affairs.

[Akasha]

Bit lost for words about the following video.

Vcd-yvudYSg

[onawah]

Without even checking all the info out in that video, I will just say it makes a lot more sense to me than all the pro Trump rhetoric we've been hearing.
I look forward to hearing what some other Avalonians have to say about it who are more politically inclined than I.

Bit lost for words about the following video.

Vcd-yvudYSg

[East Sun]

The answer to what?

You need a question before an answer.

Before he is president all the know-it-all's come out of the woodwork to
criticize him.
ANSWER TO WHAT?

I know one thing, before we start, he is an answer to what we
narrowly missed.
Regardless to what he does or does not do, anything will be better than
the 'alternative'.
Yes, we could argue forever as to what could have happened but I
for one could see 'them' --evil ones for what they are..............

There may not be an answer--ever,
So, we select what we can and adjust.............

[ThePythonicCow]

Bit lost for words about the following video.
That might actually be a useful video, if one can "translate" it accurately.

On the surface, the video lumps all the Rothschild, Zionist, Israelie, Neo-con, Ashkenazi Jews, Main Stream Media, Mossad, et al into one basket of evil, and all of us ordinary people into another basket of the desperate, demoralized and oppressed. The video presents this view [A] in opposition to the main alternative view , that Trump is opposed to the "bad" guys in Washington and the Main Stream Media, and will drain those swamps, as best he can. That alternative view [B] is in turn in opposition to the mainstream conventional view [C], that Trump is a dangerous buffoon, attacking American leadership.

Back in 1913 the big New York banks got the Federal Reserve act passed. This act transferred control of money creation from the US Treasury to the Federal Reserve (a private corporation owned by those big banks). [B]One key way that the big banks got this act accepted by the public was to publicly and avidly oppose the very act that they wrote and deeply wanted. Most people, naturally enough, figured that if the banks were against the act, it must be a "good" act, unlike the previous privately owned US National banks, which were owned by the big New York banks, and whose charters had been revoked.

Most people were wrong.

The big banks wrote the Federal Reserve act, in a secret meeting on Jekyll Island in 1910, and disguised their support of the act, by pretending to oppose it. Their deceit worked, and since then, the US Dollar has been lent into existence by those big banks and their agency, the Federal Reserve. December 23, 1913 is perhaps the foremost date in American history that should "live in infamy," not December 7, 1941. The Federal Reserve Act was enacted on December 23, 1913. The Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941, the date that US President Roosevelt then said should "live in infamy."

This same grand deception is being played out on us again!

This time it is the elite controlled main stream media that is playing the role of the apparent opposition. The main stream press mentioned Trump more than any other candidate during the year long Presidential campaign, ostensibly to attack and ridicule him. But as most any politician knows, any press is (usually) good press, even if it seems to be on the attack. Half (perhaps far more) of America now figures that the main stream press is a pit of deceitful snakes, and cheer Trump on, when he blatantly, in common language, attacks the bias of the main stream press.

The video you posted above is correct, I believe, in noting that the main stream media, and many of Trump's most valuable advisors, staff and supporters, both have deep ties to a common elite, which the video calls the Ashkenazi Jews.

My take is that the elite are moving us (humanity) through a transition, from the American century, to a multi-polar structure of multiple major nations and multiple major national currencies, all guided by the partially hidden hands of the global elite. The American Bush, Clinton, Obama, Neo-con, and Main Stream Media elements have been cast as the "bad" guys, to be thrown under the bus, symbolic of the demise of the century of American Exceptionalism.

I have no idea, and no way to find out, what percentage of the world's Ashkenazi Jews are trusted agents of these elite. It does however seem to me that the elite have infiltrated the Ashkenazi Jews for centuries (at least), to a greater extent than they have most other genetically identifiably (in this case, mitochondrial genetics, inherited from the maternal side) sub-groups of the human species. This means that while learning that someone is from Ashkenazi Jewish maternal ancestry tells me no more about them as individual persons than learning that they are Scottish or Chinese, on the other hand, learning that a substantial proportion of a leader's key advisors, staff and supporters are Ashkenazi Jews does lead me to suspect that that leader is somehow working with, for, or under the control or at least close surveillance of the most powerful elite on this planet.

So I think that that video, like most propaganda (and that video certainly has the "feel" of propaganda, intended to incite division and distrust), mixes some truth with some deception. I agree with that video that Trump is somehow working with, for, or under the control or at least close surveillance of the most powerful elite on this planet, and that the very strong presence of Ashkenazi Jews in his key advisors, staff and supporters is good evidence of this association.

I do not agree with the video in lumping the Neo-cons in with these same people. Rather I prefer to use the label "Neo-con" for those who spear headed the last few decades of the century of American Exceptionalism, including the Bush and Clinton crime syndicates, and their teleprompter reading agent, Obama. These that I call Neo-cons are the ones being thrown under the bus now.

I do not agree with the video's incitement to hatred of all Ashkenazi Jews. That plays right into the incitement of division, discord and distrust that the elite use, time and time again, to emotionally energize, while intellectually and spiritually camouflaging, their mass manipulations of humanity.

The way that the big cats drive change is to send two groups of smaller cats to fight to bloody death, like lions and Christians in a Roman colosseum. For big changes, the elite then use multiple variations and reflections of this tactic, until almost every person (who's awake enough to change TV channels on their remote control) has taken strong sides for or against one or another of these groups of combatants, and until almost every person is too confused by, but enmeshed within, this fabric of conflict, too distracted, confused and emotionally triggered, to see the hidden hands behind all this smoke and mirrors, conflict and chaos.

The Long March (http://www.history.com/topics/long-march) of the global elite continues.

[Mitm]

who the heck knows whats going on anymore... I just hope that there are some white hats, that are about to change the "system" so we can live without worrying about money, and concentrate on whats important in life..

[onawah]

I would also refer to Kerry's posts starting here:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?94769-Pizzagate-pedophilia-in-American-elite--with-links-to-related-threads-&p=1129274&viewfull=1#post1129274
and including her video.
She knows her way around these issues.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

And also this:



The Long March (http://www.history.com/topics/long-march) of the global elite continues.

[Daozen]

Bit lost for words about the following video.
One key way that the big banks got this act accepted by the public was to publicly and avidly oppose the very act that they wrote and deeply wanted. Most people, naturally enough, figured that if the banks were against the act, it must be a "good" act, unlike the previous privately owned US National banks, which were owned by the big New York banks, and whose charters had been revoked.

Most people were wrong.

The big banks wrote the Federal Reserve act, in a secret meeting on Jekyll Island in 1910, and disguised their support of the act, by pretending to oppose it. Their deceit worked, and since then, the US Dollar has been lent into existence by those big banks and their agency, the Federal Reserve. December 23, 1913 is perhaps the foremost date in American history that should "live in infamy," not December 7, 1941. The Federal Reserve Act was enacted on December 23, 1913. The Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941, the date that US President Roosevelt then said should "live in infamy."

This same grand deception is being played out on us again!



I was thinking the same thing. The establishment knows we don't trust them. it's easy enough for them to make someone look edgy and rebellious. The Grateful Dead's Bob Weir was a member of Bohemian Grove, to pick one example of many.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOs7eziJAv8

TPTB know that if they say "don't pick this guy" the electorate will go against their wishes and pick him. Espcially as Hilary was pushed up on stage coughing and spluttering, and grandstanding against Russia. Who would vote for a sick warmonger? In retrospect it was reverse psychology being played out on a mass scale.

If Trump does OK, good luck to him, but people are wasting a lot of psychic energy waiting on him to sort things out. The BRICS bank was a hero 3-4 years ago. They delivered nothing.

The best course of action -for me- is to detach from the political circus... and make progress in other fields.

[Yetti]

Yes, no, who knows let's see the first month of actions and then form a decent and intelligent opinion, without being biassed by main stream lies!

[ThePythonicCow]

I do not agree with the video's incitement to hatred of all Ashkenazi Jews.
Speaking of Ashkenazi Jews, here are some of the final words in Miles Mathis' latest political, geneological work, Hitler's Genealogy (http://mileswmathis.com/hiller.pdf):

Nazism is nothing but theater, and these people like Haider are simply crypto-Jews, directly related to the same families that have been pulling this con for a century. As in the US, they create two fake parties that appear to be opposed but that are really allied fascists. They then divert your attention from any real events with a constant stream of fiction.

In fact, I have already proved my point in this paper and don't feel obligated to say any more about Himmler. If you can read everything above and not gag on all of 20 th c. history, you need to go dunk your head in some ice water.

But on the way out I will tell how to read one last mystery. It has never been explained where the word Nazi came from. Wikipedia tells you to this day it comes from the German pronunciation of the word national. Right. And you believe that? Given what we learned above, maybe now you can see the truth: Nazi is simply a shortening of the word Ashkenazi.

Miles apparently missed school the day they taught political correctness ... and he's damn proud that he did.

Eustace Mullins, on page 129 of his 1987 book “The Curse Of Canaan: A Demonology Of History“ (http://www.scribd.com/doc/43083011/Eustace-Mullins-The-Curse-of-Canaan), as quoted at Before It's News (http://beforeitsnews.com/power-elite/2015/08/the-khazarians-arian-or-ashkenazi-nazi-2449650.html), made a similar comment:

[Adolf Hitler's] political party, the National Socialists, received the worldwide appellation of “Nazi” because it was the political party of the Ashkenazim, the German Jews (ashkenazim means Germany in Hebrew).

According to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eustace_Mullins), "Eustace Clarence Mullins Jr. (March 9, 1923 – February 2, 2010) was an antisemitic American writer, Holocaust denier, and disciple of the poet Ezra Pound." Neither Miles Mathis nor myself have earned a Wikipedia page, though I'd guess that Miles, like myself, would prefer, if we ever did earn such a page, that it be damning, as is Mullins' page now.

===

As I wrote above, I remain of the view that whoever are the global elite, whose hidden hand seems behind so many of the darker chapters in human history (whether publicly written or not), have infiltrated the Ashkenazi Jewish descendents more so than humanity in general. Or perhaps I should say that their way of thinking, their view of humanity and of their proper role in our civilization, has found a greater "home" in some of those descendents, and that the counter balancing views of the rest of us, more susceptible to mass propaganda, manipulation and genocidal conflict, has found a greater "home" in many other genetic (both cellular nuclear DNA and mitochondria DNA) pools of humanity.

It's as if the human species was susceptible to a great illness, manifest throughout the centuries in the most dreadful acts of brutality, tyranny and destruction, against each other and against other beings. No other species we know of leaves such a trail of mayhem in its wake.

===

So, as in this thread's title, Trump is not the answer (though I voted for him, and I'm glad I did, at one level of my being.) Rather the "Trump phenomenon", as well as its opposition, are signs of the times, yet another manifestation of this latest round of mass manipulation.

The best antidote to these mass viruses of our mind, body and psyche is our own well being - improved awareness of mind, health of body, and strength of psyche. Thus it is with any disease threat - our own well being is the best defense.

The best way to improved awareness is to try, somehow, to show others what one sees. It is the would be teacher who learns, more than the would be student of that teacher.

That's why I write here - thanks for reading.

[The Freedom Train]

The Long March of the global elite continues.

Having just read Animal Farm, I am reminded of Benjamin the donkey. I have never actually used Cliff's notes, but for those who have never read the book (and I highly suggest it - an excellent satire) I thought I would share a brief review of the character from the Cliff's notes website (which I just now discovered existed.)

"As horses are known for their strength, donkeys are known for their stubbornness, and Benjamin stubbornly refuses to become enthusiastic about the rebellion. While all of his comrades delight in the prospect of a new, animal-governed world, Benjamin only remarks, "Donkeys live a long time. None of you has ever seen a dead donkey."

While this reply puzzles the animals, the reader understands Benjamin's cynical yet not-unfounded point: In the initial moments of the rebellion, Animal Farm may seem a paradise, but in time it may come to be another form of the same tyranny at which they rebelled. Of course, Benjamin is proven right by the novel's end, and the only thing that he knows for sure — "Life would go on as it had always gone on — that is, badly" — proves to be a definitive remark about the animals' lives. Although pessimistic, he is a realist."

https://www.cliffsnotes.com/literature/a/animal-farm/character-analysis/benjamin

¤=[Post Update]=¤


I was thinking the same thing. The establishment knows we don't trust them. it's easy enough for them to make someone look edgy and rebellious. The Grateful Dead's Bob Weir was a member of Bohemian Grove, to pick one example of many.

TPTB know that if they say "don't pick this guy" the electorate will go against their wishes and pick him. Espcially as Hilary was pushed up on stage coughing and spluttering, and grandstanding against Russia. Who would vote for a sick warmonger? In retrospect it was reverse psychology being played out on a mass scale.

If Trump does OK, good luck to him, but people are wasting a lot of psychic energy waiting on him to sort things out. The BRICS bank was a hero 3-4 years ago. They delivered nothing.

The best course of action -for me- is to detach from the political circus... and make progress in other fields.

Fantastic.

[ThePythonicCow]

Another insight from page 144 of Eustace Mullins' 1987 book “The Curse Of Canaan: A Demonology Of History“ (http://www.scribd.com/doc/43083011/Eustace-Mullins-The-Curse-of-Canaan):

The Reagan presidency itself represents the high water mark for the black nobility Canaanitecontrol of our government. The Jesuits had boasted that a secret sign was to be given to the worldwhen the ecumenical movement had successfully overcome its worldwide opposition. This signwould be the swearing in of a U.S. President while facing the symbolic occult obelisk. On January20, 1981, for the first time in history, the swearing in ceremonies were moved to the west front of the Capitol. Reagan was sworn in while facing the Washington Monument, the mystical symbol of the Canaanites and the Babylonians.
Notice that to this day, or should I say last week, with the swearing in of Donald J Trump as the 45th President of the US, the swearing in still occurs on the west front of the Capitol, facing the obelisk that is the Washington Monument. The following image shows the east side of Capitol building in the foreground, and the Washington Monument in the background, with the reflecting pool leading to the Lincoln Monument behind that.

https://manuscriptroadtrip.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/national-mall-11.jpg

[onawah]

Thanks for writing, Paul!
For the first time in a long time, since even before the whole spectacle of the last election began, I feel like I have a real idea of what is actually going down, and though it's not comfortable, it's better than the constant flip flop that many of us have been doing all this time.
Being grounded sure beats being on perpetual unsure footing and somehow, as depressing as reality may be, I don't feel depressed-- just sane-- and that's something to build on, at least.
Anything feels better than feeling foolish, and fooled.



===

So, as in this thread's title, Trump is not the answer (though I voted for him, and I'm glad I did, at one level of my being.) Rather the "Trump phenomenon", as well as its opposition, are signs of the times, yet another manifestation of this latest round of mass manipulation.

The best antidote to these mass viruses of our mind, body and psyche is our own well being - improved awareness of mind, health of body, and strength of psyche. Thus it is with any disease threat - our own well being is the best defense.

The best way to improved awareness is to try, somehow, to show others what one sees. It is the would be teacher who learns, more than the would be student of that teacher.

That's why I write here - thanks for reading.

[TargeT]

The Long March (http://www.history.com/topics/long-march) of the global elite continues.

svwW312b1NI

No way anything but the desired person is getting into office.

[Helene West]

Trump has his fans but I've never felt that this board is a Trump Fan Club.
I feel there are more here like myself who hesitantly and with heavy heart voted for him cause we just weren't voting for clinton. We knew full well that it could turn into a horror show. Going to the polls is almost about voting for 'ambience' as opposed to voting for power, who you vote for is like voting for a Flavor of the Month, it sets a feeling, a mood in the atmosphere. The vibe obama engendered has already changed. I like the vibe feeling now produced by the trump crew already as opposed to the vibe of the crew that just left.

Superficial? shallow? of course! But none of us is going to stand on the street corner screaming "We are ruled by the zionist banking cartel! We've been serfs since 1913! If we don't free ourselves from the central banking system we will be impoverished controlled digital slaves!!" No one is going to do that. So I'm not looking at all these zionist vids that have recently been posted, what for? Is it going to help me? That group was controlling things before trump came on the scene.

The next step is how do we protect ourselves from any fallout, especially economic/financial? What would help me/others is perhaps a thread on money and how to protect ourselves when/if the financial markets start collapsing as trump may be used to be The Designated Scapegoat for their decision for an economic reset. I don't need to be convinced how the smallest, richest minority group in the world, (who can also turn around and claim being oppressed by anti-semites (lol!)) is ruling our lives. I don't believe many who voted for trump on this board felt 'Trump is the Answer'. I just didn't feel I had much of a choice.

[eaglespirit]

The Magic of Selfless Unification and Action Is Here, Helene West...
from spirit thought, our hearts are coming together and will bring on one little miracle after another
as protection of any fallout and the new co-creation of upward mobility...for spirit and science are becoming one now,
changing of the guards is ensuing! The 'white hats' (woman and men) in the mix of all of this are newly energized!

[Akasha]

Just to be clear, it wasn't my intention to be anti-Semitic by uploading the "Trump Is the Swamp" video just as I don't feel it was TruthMediaRevolution's for creating it. Rather I feel he was simply highlighting an indisputable pattern within the elite structure, which no doubt exists on (and above) both sides of the political spectrum too.

Being anti-Semitic requires that the person is against all Jews on principle with no exceptions, a term which I don't think applies in this case.

I would suggest he, like myself is quite simply "anti" the "Semites" and any other groups who are conspiring against humanity for their own personal gain.

Would he be "anti" these "Semites" for instance?

nMQ9C6vni0w

I really don't think so.

So I'd suggest we reserve the application of the term "anti-semitic" to those who really deserve it.

That said, thanks for not being "lost for words" like I was, Paul. Your commentary on the subject was very helpful.

[turiya]

The Long March (http://www.history.com/topics/long-march) of the global elite continues.


svwW312b1NI

No way anything but the desired person is getting into office.

LOL!!! I also have three opposing Trey Smith videos to play... Keep in mind, the 1st video was published 4 days before the 2016 Presidential Election...

In fact, ALL videos were published prior to the 2016 Presidential Election...

The second video involves The Trump Prophecy...

The third video involves Israel....

Enjoy!



Trump Prophecy: the Donald Trump "777"
Presidential Inauguration Prophecy 2017
(Published on Nov 4, 2016)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBJKwlQkq6o______________________________

TRUMP: the COMING LANDSLIDE ~Ancient Prophecy
Documentary of Donald Trump / 2016
(Published on Sep 29, 2016)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzuxTEq-plE______________________________

Enoch: Prophecy of Isis, Israel,
Rapture, World War 3, Antichrist,
End Times and Bible's Armeggedon
(Published on Dec 8, 2015)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FX3LacqYR58

I still say the Illuminati... the 'Contollers'... or whatever you want to call 'em... they got their hands full & are still running around - like chickens without their heads - wondering, "What the Hell Happened!!!"

[Helene West]

Some of Trump's more offensive remarks, such as those about "grabbing pussy" were not just words, but were actions as well.
Perhaps to other men, that may not seem that threatening, but to a woman, to hear such remarks from someone who is now POTUS, and to know that he has bragged about doing such a thing repeatedly, is not a matter of "ruffled" feelings.
It is disturbing to many women around the world, obviously, that this kind of behavior is being minimized and discounted.
There were warning signs when people were cheering for Obama unreservedly upon his first being elected that were ignored.
Part of our learning process would obviously be NOT to repeat those same mistakes.

Yet, when some folks here on the forum asked others to stop promoting someone who had been actively doing far worse (at least until that person got some serious counseling and took a break until his addictions were clearly under control), there was vigorous defense... recall? Consider also the difference in vulnerability levels of the ones who had experiences they later wished they hadn't.

Also, I am unsure how much of the world folks here have experienced, but from my own experience, I have concluded that the media implanted attitudes of some and IMO way too many women in the US, to some extent Canada, to some extent the UK and to some extent the rest of the "westernized" (cabal media influenced) non-Latin / non-Asian world which is at least reasonably civilized... are far more "uptight" about being their gender (or gender preference).

If the Billy Bush tape shocked anyone, it's my experience that they are living in an isolated world... and I am sorry to say this. If the Billy Bush tape shocked anyone, then write off 80% of the alpha-male population and note that most other males go along with the talk. Many of these same males are loved and appreciated by many females. And trust me, females can be just as raunchy. And trust me, at least in many of the parts of the world I have been too, I have met many females quite aggressive. Never forget there is still the animal in most of us. So many parts of the world celebrate this aspect of the human experience.

I will never forget when I started to notice the media portraying men as nothing but useful animals that weren't very smart but were good for moving the sofa when needed and good for when "she" wanted to grab him by his tie and lead him up the stairs to the bedroom (late 80s and ever since). I thank God, this didn't happen world-wide.

If anyone automatically concludes that "the 11 women" rolled out (obviously scripted) was real, then I consider the word 'naive' might apply... and I mean that with all due respect, I really do. Because what most of us here do know is that the cabal associated agencies and media organizations are fully capable of creating it all. This doesn't mean that I am saying some or all of it is untrue as I cannot know, but what I do know is that it is just as likely a fictitious creation. In fact, I make that most likely... and not because I want it that way as frankly, there's far, far more important matters at stake... but because it all seemed too convenient. Why suddenly just after the tape and just before the election do all these women suddenly "come forward." Still - Regardless if true or not, this all pales in comparison to the reports received by many credible third parties regarding the actions of the one I alluded to at the beginning of this post.

So what I am suggesting is that it appears to me the post I quote above is a case of selective outrage and not consistent. So there must be reasons that in one case, there is a relentless attempt to defend and in the case of another, far less is made into far more.

I recommend looking at 'the why' of this massive inconsistency.

In all fairness, perhaps there might be something significantly different about the two cases (if we assume the worst regarding DTJ and we accept the reality regarding "the other") I am failing to see.

I never really understood why there was never any alternatives in Feminism. It seemed from the get-go in the '70s that it was anti-male. Women give birth to males, we look to them for love and all the good things in life, or at least we did. Could you imagine how different society would have been if there was a contingent in the feminist ranks of women who appealed to the men, who appealed to them - help us - help us fight violence and disrespect against us, etc - 'we are your mothers, sisters, daughters, "we need your help"; something along these lines right there with Betty Friedan (anyone remember her?) and Gloria Steinem... I wonder what that would have been like - to have given the good men an opportunity to work with us instead of being framed as demons.... oh, well...

[Helene West]

Thanks Paul for letting me know that I apparently have a humdinger of a Miles essay awaiting me!
So this latest which I'm hoping to read tonight - The nazi's were Ashkenazi Jews? OMG!! How much deception exposure can one brain handle! I don't buy by a long shot everything Miles writes but that is sooo huge, Nazi is a shortened Ashkenazi, good grief...
I'll save further comments until I read it.

I just want to understand some points made previously - you're saying that for the past 1.5 years of media and organizational intense vitriol against trump - is all part of a hoax? The pleasant fantasy I have of a possible rift amongst the ruling class, with trump being part of the white hats contingent - is naive Fantasy. There is no rift in the ruling class, only further elaborate deception? I wouldn't dispute it, and I've entertained the thought on my own, but considering it is indeed a very large bummer.

Where i live the daily newspapers ridiculed and caricatured him mercilessly. I never saw a person so disrespected. Throughout it all, besides feeling like I was getting dirty just listening and reading some of this stuff, I did at times have a feeling of deliberate artifice about some of the vitriol. But you are contending it is all part of a hoax.
I will not dispute the premise, I've been too jaded, I can only hope and pray we have some shreds of goodness to hold on to in the coming months/years.

[Akasha]

The Long March (http://www.history.com/topics/long-march) of the global elite continues.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svwW312b1NI

No way anything but the desired person is getting into office.

LOL!!! I also have three opposing Trey Smith videos to play... Keep in mind, the 1st video was published 4 days before the 2016 Presidential Election...

In fact, ALL videos were published prior to the 2016 Presidential Election...

The second video involves The Trump Prophecy...

The third video involves Israel....

Enjoy!



Trump Prophecy: the Donald Trump "777"
Presidential Inauguration Prophecy 2017
(Published on Nov 4, 2016)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBJKwlQkq6o

TRUMP: the COMING LANDSLIDE ~Ancient Prophecy
Documentary of Donald Trump / 2016
(Published on Sep 29, 2016)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzuxTEq-plE

Enoch: Prophecy of Isis, Israel,
Rapture, World War 3, Antichrist,
End Times and Bible's Armeggedon
(Published on Dec 8, 2015)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FX3LacqYR58

I still say the Illuminati... the 'Contollers'... or whatever you want to call 'em... they got their hands full & are still running around - like chickens without their heads - wondering, "What the Hell Happened!!!"

Hi Turiya. Would you consider the possibility that with the descendants* of the authors of these prophecies now being in positions of significant or even ultimate power, they might not be using that power to ensure the fulfillment of such prophecies in order to maintain the the validity of evangelical Christianity, particularly as it relates to its ongoing, blind support for the Zionist entity?

(*I use the word “descendants” loosely, particularly in light of Koestler’s hypothesis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thirteenth_Tribe)).

[turiya]

Hi Turiya. Would you consider the possibility that with the descendants* of the authors of these prophecies now being in positions of significant or even ultimate power, they might not be using that power to ensure the fulfillment of such prophecies in order to maintain the the validity of evangelical Christianity, particularly as it relates to its the ongoing, blind support for the Zionist entity?

(*I use the word “descendants” loosely, particularly in light of Koestler’s hypothesis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thirteenth_Tribe)).

Probably so...
People are capable of being deluded on many levels.
'Zionist entity' is a pejorative term,
used as a means of expressing hostility towards Israel. (wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_entity))
In my view, all established religions as cults.
One cannot take a mass transit system to reach to heaven.
True religiousness is, and can only be, individual.

[Akasha]

Hi Turiya. Would you consider the possibility that with the descendants* of the authors of these prophecies now being in positions of significant or even ultimate power, they might not be using that power to ensure the fulfillment of such prophecies in order to maintain the the validity of evangelical Christianity, particularly as it relates to its the ongoing, blind support for the Zionist entity?

(*I use the word “descendants” loosely, particularly in light of Koestler’s hypothesis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thirteenth_Tribe)).

Probably so...
People are capable of being deluded on many levels.
'Zionist entity' is a pejorative term,
used as a means of expressing hostility towards Israel. (wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_entity))
In my view, all established religions as cults.
One cannot take a mass transit system to reach to heaven.
True religiousness is, and can only be, individual.

Opinion on Apartheid South Africa was largely pejorative too and rightly so.

There are also many Jews who refer to Israel as the Zionist entity (see the video in post 220).
(http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?94907-Trump-is-NOT-the-answer&p=1129650&viewfull=1#post1129650)It's not just Arabs as we are led to believe in the wiki page you linked to.

The following video is also worth considering in light of wiki's consistant pro-Zionist bias.

g8bHXxfyZKI


@2.20 “.....We wanna be the guys who influence what is written there, how it’s written and to ensure it’s (get this) balanced and Zionist in nature”.....

I'm in complete agreement with you on your "all established religions are cults" comment btw.....

.....and apologies to all for going off topic. Back to Trump?

[Innocent Warrior]

Could Trump have been set up to win?? Anything is possible but I don't think so. Too many of the elites seemed genuinely shocked that he won.

I've just seen this email now (dated 23rd April, 2015, tweeted by Wikileaks recently), if my understanding of it is correct it shows Trump was elevated in the media by the DNC in accordance with their "Pied Piper" strategy, which evidently backfired on them.

From the DNC plan (email attachment memo) -


...Our Goals & Strategy

Our hope is that the goal of a potential HRC campaign and the DNC would be one-in-the-same: to make whomever the Republicans nominate unpalatable to a majority of the electorate. We have outlined three strategies to obtain our goal:

1) Force all Republican candidates to lock themselves into extreme conservative positions that will hurt them in a general election;
2) Undermine any credibility/trust Republican presidential candidates have to make inroads to our coalition or independents;
3) Muddy the waters on any potential attack lodged against HRC.

Operationalizing the Strategy

Pied Piper Candidates

There are two ways to approach the strategies mentioned above. The first is to use the field as a whole to inflict damage on itself similar to what happened to Mitt Romney in 2012. The variety of candidates is a positive here, and many of the lesser known can serve as a cudgel to move the more established candidates further to the right. In this scenario, we don’t want to marginalize the more extreme candidates, but make them more “Pied Piper” candidates who actually represent the mainstream of the Republican Party. Pied Piper candidates include, but aren’t limited to:

• Ted Cruz
• Donald Trump
• Ben Carson

We need to be elevating the Pied Piper candidates so that they are leaders of the pack and tell the press to them seriously.

Undermining Their Message & Credibility

Most of the more-established candidates will want to focus on building a winning general election coalition. The “Pied Pipers” of the field will mitigate this to a degree, but more will need to be done on certain candidates to undermine their credibility among our coalition (communities of color, millennials, women) and independent voters. In this regard, the goal here would be to show that they are just the same as every other GOP candidate: extremely conservative on these issues...

Email HERE (https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/1120#source).
Email attachment HERE (https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/1120#source).

* * *

UPDATE - Deleted all text about Wikileaks tweets concerning Trump's tax returns. Assuming my understanding of the term "breach of promise" is not complete, a misunderstanding on my part is the only thing that makes sense. Apologies for any confusion.

[Cidersomerset]

This is a good discussion.......whether you are pro or anti Trump....


Robert Steele "Did Lynn Rothschild Buy Donald Trump For $20 Billion? Or Is He For Real?"

cwCx5ZKABDA

Published on 26 Jan 2017
Please Support The Show – http://paypal.me/richieallen

[Bill Ryan]

This is a good discussion.......whether you are pro or anti Trump....



Yes, it is. :star: Kudos to all.

The less vitriolic and emotional, and more information-based, the better for everyone.

:focus:

[petra]

Just before his inauguration day, Canada's Comedy Network re-ran a roast of Trump from 2011

Well I watched most of it, and none of the comedians I really found very funny except maybe the "Situation" guy

Then toward the end Trump got a chance to "roast" them a little, and I was laughing so much I went into fits. It's pretty bad when he ends up being the funniest person at his own roast :)

[ALLARON]

I love Robert Steele and consider him a friend, but he's not right on everything. His discounting of Putin's influence and Sputnik 2 clouds his theory.

[awakeningmom]

Bit lost for words about the following video.
One key way that the big banks got this act accepted by the public was to publicly and avidly oppose the very act that they wrote and deeply wanted. Most people, naturally enough, figured that if the banks were against the act, it must be a "good" act, unlike the previous privately owned US National banks, which were owned by the big New York banks, and whose charters had been revoked.

Most people were wrong.

The big banks wrote the Federal Reserve act, in a secret meeting on Jekyll Island in 1910, and disguised their support of the act, by pretending to oppose it. Their deceit worked, and since then, the US Dollar has been lent into existence by those big banks and their agency, the Federal Reserve. December 23, 1913 is perhaps the foremost date in American history that should "live in infamy," not December 7, 1941. The Federal Reserve Act was enacted on December 23, 1913. The Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941, the date that US President Roosevelt then said should "live in infamy."

This same grand deception is being played out on us again!



I was thinking the same thing. The establishment knows we don't trust them. it's easy enough for them to make someone look edgy and rebellious. The Grateful Dead's Bob Weir was a member of Bohemian Grove, to pick one example of many.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOs7eziJAv8

TPTB know that if they say "don't pick this guy" the electorate will go against their wishes and pick him. Espcially as Hilary was pushed up on stage coughing and spluttering, and grandstanding against Russia. Who would vote for a sick warmonger? In retrospect it was reverse psychology being played out on a mass scale.

If Trump does OK, good luck to him, but people are wasting a lot of psychic energy waiting on him to sort things out. The BRICS bank was a hero 3-4 years ago. They delivered nothing.

The best course of action -for me- is to detach from the political circus... and make progress in other fields.


Tend to agree with this post -- and with what Paul wrote in his longer post at #208. Never believed DT was anything but another side of the same coin as HRC -- there's just no way anyone gets to be President in this corrupt system by legitimate "votes" of the People. And until DT starts an investigation into 9-11, and starts openly calling it an inside job, which will NEVER happen, then I know that the same Military-Industrial-Corporate elite powers are still in control of this Prison Planet, which seems hell bent on its continued march towards a horrific dystopian future. What do they envison, I wonder? With Pizzagate revealing the complete depravity of the elites in stunningly horrific fashion, is the ultimate object of a NWO a society of mindless chipped slaves accepting an elite world of pedophilia and human sacrifice openly? And who is trying to stop this with any real means to do so?

I want to stay out of the political debates and divides going on (even among those I thought were like-minded) because all it does is depress me, and I feel even more alienated than I did before as I see many in the so-called alternative world falling for DT. (as an aside: Why isn't Alex Jones pushing for 9-11 truth anymore BTW? He seems to have Trump's ear....wouldn't this be the key to changing everything?)

Unfortunately, trying to focus on building up physical, mental, psychic, and emotional strength to fight off this march towards an intended dystopian future necessarily becomes political when we are still trying to fight for clean air, water, non GMO food, clean and 100% optional vaccines (or none), etc. and those who have the power to make the laws on these issues make these things either more or less assured for the rest of us. Every day we must be warriors just to stay healthy and to try to convince others to stay healthy. Every day we need to stay vigilant just to make sure more basic human and civil rights are not eroded. What battles to pick? Should we simply turn inward? Will disengaging from it all just ensure a quicker downfall of these things needed for healthy human life?

And then I wonder if all the talk of getting to a higher level of consciousness to see the "game" being played and to step out of it is just a lot of mind-control bunk to get us to remain passive to what's actually going on.

This "game" is exhausting. There doesn't seem to be a spiritual point to it anymore for me, with such uneven sides and so little assistance.

[onawah]

I certainly get that feeling as well at times, but eventually I find that what seemed like the deepest darkest pit of ennui and disillusionment gradually becomes the new ground that I am standing on, and with it, a whole new perspective develops, with renewed purpose and motivation to keep on, even if it's just working more on my health or taking a calm, wait and see attitude, or even striking out on a different path to see where it might lead.
I think if enough people just keep our center and work from there, accumulating knowledge and wisdom and strength as we go, it will catch on and the maelstrom of insanity that circles around us is eventually going to run out of juice.
cwCx5ZKABDA
The conversation between Robert Steele and Richie Allen is interesting. I was leaning toward the theory that Trump was bought by the Rothchilds. but even if Trump is all that Steele says that he is, I wonder how likely it is that he will see all the dangers that Steele pointed out and take action in time to save himself?

Jordan Maxwell's interview with Richie from yesterday is also very interesting. Maxwell's expanded view of history and current events is not a pretty one, and it's certainly not easy to listen to, but it certainly is eye-opening. If nothing else, it should teach us not to be naive.

gJ6l_1JYkTE




This "game" is exhausting. There doesn't seem to be a spiritual point to it anymore for me, with such uneven sides and so little assistance.

[onawah]

But anybody who is still running around like chickens without their heads wondering, "What the Hell Happened!!!" would be, by definition, not actually a Controller.
I think there are quite possibly conflicting camps of Controllers who are disputing with each other as to what the desired outcomes of their plans are, but anyone who doesn't know what's really going on is not on their level of control, they are simply minions.
I would imagine the rule we see in the top secret echelons of "knowing only what you need to know" is true right up to the base of the top levels as well.
The Reptilian mindset, which their minions are steeped in as well, it seems, means that those at the top feel no need to clue their minions in on what is going on--the only duty of minions is to do what they are told.
Though no doubt there is revolt going on at those lower levels as well...



I still say the Illuminati... the 'Contollers'... or whatever you want to call 'em... they got their hands full & are still running around - like chickens without their heads - wondering, "What the Hell Happened!!!"

[onawah]

Trump appears to be following Robert Steele's advice and pursuing investigating election fraud.
Lhgtg-4EU8U
I like it that Steele also gives credit to Jon Rappaport's work.

I certainly get that feeling as well at times, but eventually I find that what seemed like the deepest darkest pit of ennui and disillusionment gradually becomes the new ground that I am standing on, and with it, a whole new perspective develops, with renewed purpose and motivation to keep on, even if it's just working more on my health or taking a calm, wait and see attitude, or even striking out on a different path to see where it might lead.
I think if enough people just keep our center and work from there, accumulating knowledge and wisdom and strength as we go, it will catch on and the maelstrom of insanity that circles around us is eventually going to run out of juice.
cwCx5ZKABDA
The conversation between Robert Steele and Richie Allen is interesting. I was leaning toward the theory that Trump was bought by the Rothchilds. but even if Trump is all that Steele says that he is, I wonder how likely it is that he will see all the dangers that Steele pointed out and take action in time to save himself?

[Eram]

I am (perhaps was) a mild fan of Trump, or better said: I like the fact that he appears to be anti establishment and even more anti globalist.
Also his common sense notions that the intervention policies by Obama, Bush, Clinton and pappa Bush are not working and bleeding the US dry, were points that got me on board.
Making friends with Russia, ....yeah, good common sense idea.

Now it appears that Trump is continuing the Obama's policy of drone bombing (in Jemen so far) and also even weaponizing so called moderates in Syria.
Also his idea for safe havens for refugees in Syria. How will he want to implement that without a no fly zone, .... colliding with Russia?

If this is all true and he keeps on pursuing that line, nothing will come of the hope that the US will stop bombing and killing people abroad. Nothing will come of the hope that the tensions between big players in the world will end.

KURd2NjwASE

[TargeT]

If this is all true and he keeps on pursuing that line, nothing will come of the hope that the US will stop bombing and killing people abroad. Nothing will come of the hope that the tensions between big players in the world will end.



so far he has done what he's said, or close to it.

he wants to go after ISIS, he wants to "grow the military".


so don't expect a quiet four years for the military industrial complex.... a large troop deployment to the middle east would not surprise me at this point.

[Eram]

If this is all true and he keeps on pursuing that line, nothing will come of the hope that the US will stop bombing and killing people abroad. Nothing will come of the hope that the tensions between big players in the world will end.



so far he has done what he's said, or close to it.

he wants to go after ISIS, he wants to "grow the military".


so don't expect a quiet four years for the military industrial complex.... a large troop deployment to the middle east would not surprise me at this point.

Yes, I paid close attention to all that he has said in his campaign and after, but ISIS is not in Jemen, so why drone bomb people there if he says that he wants to the interventionism? You cannot both declare war to radicalized Muslims and not intervene. That was a first red flag for me when he said those words at his day of inauguration.

Going after ISIS without interventionism, should be done in cooperation and with the approval of Assad in Syria and the same for Iraq, which has approved.

Do you think that approval will come if Trump keeps sending weapons to Syrian rebels?

Zero Hedge with offered two sources for its claim that Trump sent military equipment to Syrian Rebels.

What do you think about that Target? True, false? What if true?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-31/trump-administration-sends-military-supplies-syrian-alliance

[TargeT]

Yes, I paid close attention to all that he has said in his campaign and after, but ISIS is not in Jemen, so why drone bomb people there if he says that he wants to the interventionism? You cannot both declare war to radicalized Muslims and not intervene. That was a first red flag for me when he said those words at his day of inauguration.

As far as the US military is concerned,, ISIS = Yemen, been like that for years now.



Do you think that approval will come if Trump keeps sending weapons to Syrian rebels?

I doubt that will continue, in fact I'd bet that's one of the first things that stops... but that needs to be watched, those types of policy decisions will be very telling... "too soon" is all i can say for now.


Zero Hedge with offered two sources for its claim that Trump sent military equipment to Syrian Rebels.

What do you think about that Target? True, false? What if true?

"too soon" is all I can say on that; there's a bit of inertia built up from the previous administration, it doesn't go away in a week (but it doesn't last long either).

I can't read that link (I think zerohedge blocks military networks.. haha!), did trump have any involvement in it, make a statement or anything? or was this just something that was done after he swore in and is attributed to his administration?

[eaglespirit]

Compelled to bring this here, now...my thoughts elsewhere:

I am bringing this here because I have very personal hard core experience with this getting large commercial building projects back online and on time....and did it a number of times successfully:

The world is watching Trump trade some “chaos” to get the benefits of entrepreneurial management. It’s fast and messy, but he’s testing in real time. He’s watching protests. He’s watching news coverage. He’s watching social media. And he’s rapidly adjusting as needed. The net effect of Trump’s bias for action in his first week is that he created a presidential brand of being the most action-oriented president of all time. Your first impression will be sticky. If things work out for Trump, you will forget any temporary “chaos” and remember him as the most effective president in history. Success fixes everything. Every entrepreneur knows that.

The smartest person I know told me that the secret to business success does NOT necessarily involve hiring the right people. We just think it does. The real secret to success is firing the people that you discover to be the wrong fit until eventually you END UP with the right people. No one is psychic enough to do hiring right every time. Job applicants are good at misrepresenting themselves. But a good leader knows which employees to fire and does it quickly and humanely.

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?90590-Transition-into-Trump&p=1131222&viewfull=1#post1131222

[Eram]

Yes, I paid close attention to all that he has said in his campaign and after, but ISIS is not in Jemen, so why drone bomb people there if he says that he wants to the interventionism? You cannot both declare war to radicalized Muslims and not intervene. That was a first red flag for me when he said those words at his day of inauguration.

As far as the US military is concerned,, ISIS = Yemen, been like that for years now.



Do you think that approval will come if Trump keeps sending weapons to Syrian rebels?

I doubt that will continue, in fact I'd bet that's one of the first things that stops... but that needs to be watched, those types of policy decisions will be very telling... "too soon" is all i can say for now.


Zero Hedge with offered two sources for its claim that Trump sent military equipment to Syrian Rebels.

What do you think about that Target? True, false? What if true?

"too soon" is all I can say on that; there's a bit of inertia built up from the previous administration, it doesn't go away in a week (but it doesn't last long either).

I can't read that link (I think zerohedge blocks military networks.. haha!), did trump have any involvement in it, make a statement or anything? or was this just something that was done after he swore in and is attributed to his administration?

Thanks for your response Target.

Perhaps you're right that the weapon equipment was not ordered or condoned by Trump. I really hope so.
Reuters was one of the sources and the rebels themselves the others, so a spin, or a lie is also possible imo.


About Yemen = ISIS as far as US military is concerned:
You'd have to explain that, because all I know is that there where, or perhaps are trainings- camps for Al Qaida there, but ISIS in Yemen is something that I've never heard of before and I don't think that's the case at all.

When Trump spoke those words at his inauguration about "eradicating radical Islam terrorism from the face of the earth", I knew that we were in trouble, because this pledge both totally collides with his intent to end interventionism and (taken into a context in which he probably meant it: Taking a big hammer (military) and go after terrorists in the middle east) will never work, because this is fighting fire with fire.

Yes, ISIS can be defeated and perhaps some sort of order can be restored in Iraq and Syria, but to send the military after radical Islam terrorism will be a bad bad move that the whole world will suffer from.

[TargeT]

Perhaps you're right that the weapon equipment was not ordered or condoned by Trump. I really hope so.

Oh, as for that, I can GUARANTEE that it was not ordered by trump; I know our logistic systems... we just can't react in a week or two with the rumored order to an overseas location ;)

now condoned or not, that's the question.



Reuters was one of the sources and the rebels themselves the others, so a spin, or a lie is also possible imo.

Used to be I'd take it at face value, now.... your definitely right to leave the door open to subversive actions.



About Yemen = ISIS as far as US military is concerned:
You'd have to explain that, because all I know is that there where, or perhaps are trainings- camps for Al Qaida there, but ISIS in Yemen is something that I've never heard of before and I don't think that's the case at all.

Oh I don't know how much it ACTUALLY has to do with ISIS or if Yemen just didn't play ball at some point or what, but they are on our "****list" as it were.. (in reality I'm sure it's just us backing Saudi which is fighting with Yemen right now) I was not attempting to justify it, just explaining the thinking proccess.


When Trump spoke those words at his inauguration about "eradicating radical Islam terrorism from the face of the earth", I knew that we were in trouble

Well, There are different levels of "consciousness" out there, different levels of understanding on a geopolitical level... he could very well think that Isis is exactly what he is told it is & therefor rightly wants to eradicate it. Or it's welcome to the new boss, same as the old boss.

time will tell imo, "too soon" for now.


Yes, ISIS can be defeated and perhaps some sort of order can be restored in Iraq and Syria, but to send the military after radical Islam terrorism will be a bad bad move that the whole world will suffer from.

I don't think many people fully grasp the "terror" situation.

Nearly every single weapon used in the last 20 years or so has come from a super power, every IED that goes off is because we gave them 155mm artillery shells during the iran contra situation (they used a tiny bit of clever re-working and made very effective weapons out of those relics). Everything is from us.

If we quit supplying them, just the US alone and actually went after them it would be like a month (or less) long campaign.

We can literally watch nearly all of the middle east if we want to, live, and on a clear day with resolution fine enough to read what ever letter your standing on the corner holding. This isn't classified anymore, it's basically common knowledge... but i guess people forget that.

everything during the last 8 years has been a show. We have been arming both sides and trying to get the chaos stirred up to a point that would give us an excuse to "intervene" ( like we always do) if we just stop doing that it's over on it's own in a year or two.

[TargeT]

How Government $ach$ Won The (s)Election


RplnqsLas0g

After appointing Goldman bankers to head the Treasury and the SEC and key economic advisory positions, it looks like the Trump era will be business as usual for Government Sachs. Today Carey Wedler of TheAntiMedia.org joins us to discuss her recent article, "Actually, Goldman Sachs 'Hacked' the Election."

Looks like the Trumpet could be just another Goldman Sachs puppet.

[abmqa]

We can literally watch nearly all of the middle east if we want to, live, and on a clear day with resolution fine enough to read what ever letter your standing on the corner holding. This isn't classified anymore, it's basically common knowledge... but i guess people forget that.


I would hope that we have 24/7 drone / satellite (as well as other assets) coverage of what are determined to be critical threats.

I have been retired from the Air Force since the late 90's. I was an ELINT analyst/technician and had several very interesting assignments. I can assure you, we do have an extremely vast and powerful intelligence capability.

As a Airman and later NCO, I had assignments where some of the things I was tasked with doing, the average American has no clue about. Yet they were key to helping assure the security of the United States and her partners.

[onawah]

Trump’s toxic agriculture policy will be as grotesque as Obama’s
https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2017/02/01/trumps-toxic-agriculture-policy-will-be-as-grotesque-as-obamas/
by Jon Rappoport
February 1, 2017


In articles about Trump, I have praised the man for certain things he’s done and is doing. But that isn’t a reason for closing my eyes and accepting his programs wholeheartedly.

This is what I predicted in recent articles. Unless some miracle turnaround occurs, Trump’s pick for Secretary of Agriculture, Sonny Perdue, will be a catastrophe. Lights out. Bang.

Big Ag vs. the small American farmer? No contest.

Katherine Paul, the associate director of the Organic Consumers Association, has the story:

“Trump heaped predictable praise on Sonny Perdue, promising that the former governor of Georgia will ‘deliver big results for all Americans who earn their living off the land’.”

“The Grocery Manufacturers Association (GMA), that multi-billion-dollar lobbying group that represents Monsanto, Dow, Dupont, Coca-Cola, General Mills (you get the picture) rushed to praise Perdue’s nomination. In a statement, GMA’s president said her group ‘looks forward to working with [Perdue] on issues key to keeping America’s food the safest and most affordable food supply in the history of the world’. Coming from the GMA, leader of the charge to keep labels off GMO foods, we know that ‘safest and most affordable food’ is code for ‘industrial chemical GMO food’.”

“And by now, we also all know that Perdue, who was named 2009 Governor of the Year by the Biotechnology Innovation Organization, counts both Monsanto and Coca-Cola among his many corporate campaign donors.”

“A former fertilizer salesman, Perdue at one time owned Houston Fertilizer and Grain which, after its acquisition of Milner Milling Co., morphed into AGrowStar, a grain business with operations across Georgia and South Carolina. His supporters cite his business operations as proof that he’s qualified to lead the USDA. They fail to mention the role chemical fertilizers play in water pollution and global warming [I reject that latter connection], much less the cost to farmers of relying on synthetic inputs…”

“Perdue has no qualms about taking government handouts. Environmental Working Group (EWG) reports that between 1995 and 2014, he cashed in on $278,679 in taxpayer-funded subsidies for his various businesses. Will he be open to overhauling the current system which doles out $25 billion/year in subsidies (paid out mostly to large producers, not small farmers) for commodity crops, like wheat, GMO corn, GMO cotton and GMO soy?”

“At a 2003 meeting organized by his wife (then first lady of Georgia) and sponsored by Coca-Cola and Chick-fil-A, Perdue praised the soda giant for its ‘its continued effort to grow its business presence and invest in Georgia, as the Company prepares to open a $100 million plus expansion to its Atlanta production facilities’.”

“Before his nomination, Perdue served on Trump’s ag advisory committee whose talking points, as reported on November 15, by Politico, ‘offer a roadmap on how President-Elect Donald Trump’s agriculture secretary could shape agricultural policies, including the sweeping promise to “defend American agriculture against its critics,”’. Of course, what the committee means by ‘American’ agriculture is industrial factory farm and GMO commodity agriculture. And we all know who the committee sees as its critics—that would be us and a host of other groups that advocate for healthy food and a clean environment.”

“…in 2009, Perdue signed a bill that blocked local communities in Georgia from regulating animal cruelty, worker safety and pollution related to factory farms. That’s hardly ‘looking out’ for the little guy.”

—No need to read between the lines. Perdue will be Big Ag’s man in Washington.

But just in case you think he’ll reverse all the wonderful farm policies promoted by Obama, read on. Obama was nothing less than Monsanto’s man in the Oval Office. Here is my piece, from 2013:

After his victory in the 2008 election, Obama filled key posts with Monsanto people, in federal agencies that wield tremendous force in food issues, the USDA and the FDA:

At the USDA, as the director of the National Institute of Food and Agriculture, Roger Beachy, former director of the Monsanto Danforth Center.

As deputy commissioner of the FDA, the new food-safety-issues czar, the infamous Michael Taylor, former vice-president for public policy for Monsanto. Taylor had been instrumental in getting approval for Monsanto’s genetically engineered bovine growth hormone.

As commissioner of the USDA, Iowa governor, Tom Vilsack. Vilsack had set up a national group, the Governors’ Biotechnology Partnership, and had been given a Governor of the Year Award by the Biotechnology Industry Organization, whose members include Monsanto.

As the new Agriculture Trade Representative, who would push GMOs for export, Islam Siddiqui, a former Monsanto lobbyist.

As the new counsel for the USDA, Ramona Romero, who had been corporate counsel for another biotech giant, DuPont.

As the new head of the USAID, Rajiv Shah, who had previously worked in key positions for the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, a major funder of GMO agriculture research.

We should also remember that Obama’s secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, once worked for the Rose law firm. That firm was counsel to Monsanto.

Obama nominated Elena Kagan to the US Supreme Court. Kagan, as federal solicitor general, had previously argued for Monsanto in the Monsanto v. Geertson seed case before the Supreme Court.

The deck was stacked. Obama hadn’t simply made honest mistakes. Obama hadn’t just failed to exercise proper oversight in selecting appointees. He was staking out territory on behalf of Monsanto and other GMO corporate giants.

And now let us look at what key Obama appointees have wrought for their true bosses. Let’s see what GMO crops have walked through the open door of the Obama presidency.

* Monsanto GMO alfalfa.

* Monsanto GMO sugar beets.

* Monsanto GMO Bt soybean.

* Coming soon: Monsanto’s GMO sweet corn.

* Syngenta GMO corn for ethanol.

* Syngenta GMO stacked corn.

* Pioneer GMO soybean.

* Syngenta GMO Bt cotton.

* Bayer GMO cotton.

* ATryn, an anti-clotting agent from the milk of transgenic goats.

* A GMO papaya strain.

* And soon, genetically engineered salmon and apples.

This is an extraordinary parade.

Obama was, all along, a stealth operative on behalf of Monsanto, biotech, GMOs, and corporate control of the future of agriculture.

He didn’t make that many key political appointments and allow that many new GMO crops to enter the food chain through a lack of oversight.

Nor is it coincidental that two of the Obama’s biggest supporters, Bill Gates and George Soros, purchased 900,000 and 500,000 shares of Monsanto, respectively, in 2010.

Obama, while on the campaign trail in 2008, was promising transparency in government, was claiming that every person has the right to know what’s in his food (GMO labeling). But clearly, that was all cover and fluff. He was lying through his teeth and he knew it. He hasn’t changed. He’s been a covert agent since the beginning.

Imposter. Charlatan. These words fit Obama. He doesn’t care that GMO food is taking over the country and the world. He wants it to happen. He’s always wanted it to happen.

Obama, Monsanto, DuPont, and Dow, among others, are prepared to do whatever is necessary to make GMO food and their attendant pesticides dominate America and, through exports, the world.Whether Trump has his eyes open or closed, he’s walking down the same path. His meetings with small farmers, and his pledge to protect clean water and air, were so much fluff.

Theoretically, he has time to reverse course, but don’t bet on it, don’t hold your breath—unless you’re living in an area downwind from a corporate factory farm, where the air is full of gently wafting toxic pesticides and GMOs.

Jon Rappoport

I'm just not buying it that Trump's picks are going to be doing things differently than they were before, just because it's Trump calling the shots now.

[AutumnW]

Bit lost for words about the following video.

Vcd-yvudYSg

Hi Akasha! I haven't watched the video yet, but am sure it highlights Trump's devil's deal with 'Net-a-yahoo.' I agree completely with Target's assessment about Middle Eastern wars for profit and control -- and the necessity of an arms embargo on that region. That won't sit well with Israel though. They are one of the world's largest arms manufacturers, themselves. Israel would also like to see Iran obliterated.

I sense that Trump just might be foolhardy enough to take on Iran. And I mean, bomb it to glass. It would make Israel happy.

Trump appears to be Israeli payback to the democrats who dared distance themselves from Israel's dear leader.

[AutumnW]

We can literally watch nearly all of the middle east if we want to, live, and on a clear day with resolution fine enough to read what ever letter your standing on the corner holding. This isn't classified anymore, it's basically common knowledge... but i guess people forget that.


I would hope that we have 24/7 drone / satellite (as well as other assets) coverage of what are determined to be critical threats.

I have been retired from the Air Force since the late 90's. I was an ELINT analyst/technician and had several very interesting assignments. I can assure you, we do have an extremely vast and powerful intelligence capability.

As a Airman and later NCO, I had assignments where some of the things I was tasked with doing, the average American has no clue about. Yet they were key to helping assure the security of the United States and her partners.

There has only ever been one critical nuclear threat in the Middle East, and that was and is Israel. Pakistan, to some degree, as well. Iran needed to be watched carefully and that situation was contained by previous administration.

I don't notice Saudi Arabia, another actual Wahhabist threat, being drone struck. What with all the princes, you might just hit one by accident!

The only people who seem to be targeted are those who happen to be powerless and no threat whatsoever.

[AutumnW]

If this is all true and he keeps on pursuing that line, nothing will come of the hope that the US will stop bombing and killing people abroad. Nothing will come of the hope that the tensions between big players in the world will end.




so far he has done what he's said, or close to it.

he wants to go after ISIS, he wants to "grow the military".


so don't expect a quiet four years for the military industrial complex.... a large troop deployment to the middle east would not surprise me at this point.

Any ideas where this will happen, Target?

[TargeT]

If this is all true and he keeps on pursuing that line, nothing will come of the hope that the US will stop bombing and killing people abroad. Nothing will come of the hope that the tensions between big players in the world will end.




so far he has done what he's said, or close to it.

he wants to go after ISIS, he wants to "grow the military".


so don't expect a quiet four years for the military industrial complex.... a large troop deployment to the middle east would not surprise me at this point.

Any ideas where this will happen, Target?

I don't think it will be soon, so not even a guess on when right now ;)

Just guessing, why would we build the military up more? our budget is already 610something billion dollars.

Ever seen the comparison chart of every aircraft carrier in the world?
https://i.imgur.com/nXZsdLM.jpg

Not even sure why we would need a "build up" really.

[abmqa]

Perhaps you're right that the weapon equipment was not ordered or condoned by Trump. I really hope so.

Oh, as for that, I can GUARANTEE that it was not ordered by trump; I know our logistic systems... we just can't react in a week or two with the rumored order to an overseas location ;)

now condoned or not, that's the question.



Reuters was one of the sources and the rebels themselves the others, so a spin, or a lie is also possible imo.

Used to be I'd take it at face value, now.... your definitely right to leave the door open to subversive actions.



About Yemen = ISIS as far as US military is concerned:
You'd have to explain that, because all I know is that there where, or perhaps are trainings- camps for Al Qaida there, but ISIS in Yemen is something that I've never heard of before and I don't think that's the case at all.

Oh I don't know how much it ACTUALLY has to do with ISIS or if Yemen just didn't play ball at some point or what, but they are on our "****list" as it were.. (in reality I'm sure it's just us backing Saudi which is fighting with Yemen right now) I was not attempting to justify it, just explaining the thinking proccess.


When Trump spoke those words at his inauguration about "eradicating radical Islam terrorism from the face of the earth", I knew that we were in trouble

Well, There are different levels of "consciousness" out there, different levels of understanding on a geopolitical level... he could very well think that Isis is exactly what he is told it is & therefor rightly wants to eradicate it. Or it's welcome to the new boss, same as the old boss.

time will tell imo, "too soon" for now.


Yes, ISIS can be defeated and perhaps some sort of order can be restored in Iraq and Syria, but to send the military after radical Islam terrorism will be a bad bad move that the whole world will suffer from.

I don't think many people fully grasp the "terror" situation.

Nearly every single weapon used in the last 20 years or so has come from a super power, every IED that goes off is because we gave them 155mm artillery shells during the iran contra situation (they used a tiny bit of clever re-working and made very effective weapons out of those relics). Everything is from us.

If we quit supplying them, just the US alone and actually went after them it would be like a month (or less) long campaign.

We can literally watch nearly all of the middle east if we want to, live, and on a clear day with resolution fine enough to read what ever letter your standing on the corner holding. This isn't classified anymore, it's basically common knowledge... but i guess people forget that.

everything during the last 8 years has been a show. We have been arming both sides and trying to get the chaos stirred up to a point that would give us an excuse to "intervene" ( like we always do) if we just stop doing that it's over on it's own in a year or two.






If this is all true and he keeps on pursuing that line, nothing will come of the hope that the US will stop bombing and killing people abroad. Nothing will come of the hope that the tensions between big players in the world will end.




so far he has done what he's said, or close to it.

he wants to go after ISIS, he wants to "grow the military".


so don't expect a quiet four years for the military industrial complex.... a large troop deployment to the middle east would not surprise me at this point.

Any ideas where this will happen, Target?

I don't think it will be soon, so not even a guess on when right now ;)

Just guessing, why would we build the military up more? our budget is already 610something billion dollars.

Ever seen the comparison chart of every aircraft carrier in the world?
https://i.imgur.com/nXZsdLM.jpg

Not even sure why we would need a "build up" really.

After upsetting close ally Australia, looks like we are losing friends. Should major military action become necessary we may not have a large coalition willing to assist, as in the past. I would say that we might need a build up. But omg that's a lot of naval power!

Hard to see those numbers as real. Wow!