Excessive high potency Pot use can create perpetual nausea and vomiting

[Bob]

Wow.. did that come out of MSM? The war on drugs crew?

Well here is the story.. Too much cannabidiol, not THC (that gets you high) appears to turn ON excessive vomiting, abdominal pain and nausea... Just the right amount turns it off.. A delicate balance..

from - http://fusion.net/story/298223/pot-smokers-vomiting-showers-cannabinoid-hyperemesis-syndrome-chs/


A study conducted by the Denver Health Medical Center’s Department of Emergency Medicine actually looked into the prevalence of CHS (cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome) before and after medical legalization of marijuana in Colorado.

Sure enough, the researchers found that “the prevalence of cyclic vomiting visits increased from 41 per 113,262 emergency department (ED) visits to 87 per 125,095 ED visits after marijuana liberalization.” The upshot? The prevalence “nearly doubled,” say the researchers.

When emergency room doctors are presented with a patient vomiting uncontrollably, cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome is not a diagnosis that immediately comes to mind.


Eight years ago, Wendell Edgeman, then a 34-year-old pot smoker living in Seattle, began vomiting daily and had no idea why.

“As soon as I opened my eyes I would get a pain in my sternum. Then I would throw up for a couple hours,” Edgeman says. “Sometimes it would last for two to three days.” The vomiting bouts would stop then start, stop then start.

The common denominator - Edgeman was a continual habitual pot smoker. After nearly a decade of suffering, Edgeman took a chance. He stopped smoking weed, and within a month, the vomiting stopped, too.

A habitual alcohol user will experience extreme abdominal pains, liver issues, and suffer.. A small amount is great, a large amount induces suffering.. Apparently the same with pot..

[shaberon]

Well, yes, the extra 46 complaints from over 125,000 patients with no diagnosis attached tells us a whole lot.

Someone is allergic to everything. You can't take a peanut butter sandwich to school because of that.

[Bob]

Point being if you're constantly retching, and continually using pot, habitually maybe take a break and see if symptoms subside :)

[shaberon]

Oh sure, it sounds like the guy was overdoing it like maybe a lot. No one in Amsterdam is like that.

Of course, it says vomiting daily, but then the bouts are start and stop, and took over a month to finally cease after he quit.

Also, despite how they may pose it, some of those weeds have herbicides/chemical fertilizers.

[Bob]

Oh sure, it sounds like the guy was overdoing it like maybe a lot. No one in Amsterdam is like that.

Of course, it says vomiting daily, but then the bouts are start and stop, and took over a month to finally cease after he quit.

Also, despite how they may pose it, some of those weeds have herbicides/chemical fertilizers.

There has been a lot of government analysis of both the medicinal and recreational weed in Colorado.. And of all things recalls by sellers when the brands have shown pesticide residue. If the compound is excessive cannabidiol, not THC (that gets you high) that then says something which hasn't been revealed before. If the right amount heals, the wrong amount pushes one past the threshold, why push in excess? The GMO pot these days (specifically modified for maximum effects) isn't the pot of the 60's.. Understanding more about the substances within the plant obviously is needed.. Especially when concentrating substance(s)..

[Bob]

Vomiting and Mast Cells - histamine flooding..

Cannabidiol appears to control the excessive histamine release from those cells.. The histamine is a "flooding agent" used by the body to get rid of a foreign protein which it cannot tolerate or break down..

Again, the cannabidiol, not THC (that gets you high) from the plant is responsible for the miraculous healing properties according to numerous studies. The cannabidiol suppresses the mast cells from flooding and releasing histamine into tissues..

I would hypothecate, if the body has been over-saturated with cannabidiol, that the normal mast cell suppression could possibly be reduced, or the body may start to consider cannabidiol as a 'histamine trigger' and react as if one is having an allergy..

From http://mthfrliving.com/health-conditions/mast-cell-activation-disorder-histamine-intolerance/

Mast cells are part of our immune system and within them are granules that contain inflammation-causing chemicals. We generally need these for healing wounds, forming new blood vessels, remodeling tissues and to defend against pathogens. Their role in the allergic response is the way most of us are familiar with them as histamine is one of the chemicals found in mast cells.


Mast cells are innate immune cells that play a role in defending the body against bacteria, viruses, and parasites, but are best known for their participation in the allergic response. When mast cells degranulate, or burst open, histamine and other chemicals are released, leading to symptoms which we associate with allergies, including having a runny nose, wheezing, hives, etc. Most of us are familiar with the antihistamine drugs that are used to treat allergic symptoms, such as Claritin, Allegra, and [Zyrtec]. Although these medications do not prevent mast cells from releasing histamine, they prevent symptoms by blocking histamine receptors.

Symptoms from excessive histamine and mast cell release:

Certain triggers then cause them to degranulate excessively and release their chemicals, leading to an array of symptoms that often overlap with other chronic conditions. These symptoms range in severity and include:


Flushing, itching, rash, hives
Heart palpitations or irregularities, low blood pressure
Lightheadedness, shortness of breath, fatigue, weakness, dizziness
Headache, chest pain, joint pain
Nausea, loss of appetite, weight loss or gain
Fainting, cognitive problems, brain fog
Swelling of the liver (jaundice), spleen or lymph nodes
Gastrointestinal symptoms: diarrhea, stomach pain, vomiting, bloating
Wheezing, blurred vision, anxiety, sunlight sensitivity
Urinary frequency or pain
Bone pain
Anaphylaxis


Ask a user of the new stronger GMO weed if they have ever had any of the symptoms above..

Balancing, just the right amount to suppress the excessive histamine reaction is essential in helping to treat and probably cure innumerable amounts of diseases.. I cannot emphasize this enough. The cannabidiol substance deals effectively with the mast cells and histamine reaction.. but there are other plant substances in the hemp plant which can induce histamine reactions, and mast cell release.. and the reactions and symptoms.. Immune diseases with the symptoms listed above kill humanity.. Nature offers some ways to help, if JUST the right amount is used at just the right time (i.e. the effective practicing Shaman understands this)..

This is where proper science could help.. Suppressing research though, calling such compounds "scheduled drugs" stops critical research to understand potential benefits... allergies and the mechanism behind them may be a very very important focus of research.. allergies and the immune system go hand and hand..

[shaberon]

Wow, slight derail here but that's exactly what I got from: Ibuprofen. The histamine flooding and, not quite all those symptoms, but hives particularly for quite a while. It was a really horrible, extensive outbreak, unlike the handful of other times I have ever experienced it which only lasted an hour or so, this was like a week with no signs of slowing down. Wound up pigging out on cashews for the copper as I was under the impression the liver uses that in its processes. It gave me a mild case of dermatographism which still persists. Never touched any more drug store medicines since then.

It didn't cause any vomiting, nor did anaphylaxis from a hornet nest attack, but peoples' bodies can respond differently to the same stimulus. I am the type who is less sensitive to pain, but itching makes me furious. I didn't actually care about the hornet stings or that I almost died uncontrollably from the throat closure/possible heart problems, but no more hives or rashes, please.

And although I would have to say cannabis is considerably less harmful than many things we might ingest, it does have a playground of unique compounds inside it that deserve research for healing and harmful properties; same with the seeds, oils, fibers, etc., it's an incredibly versatile plant. Adverse reactions may be rare and/or related to an unreasonable level of consumption, but there's water toxicity, vitamin toxicity...with increasingly widespread use of cultured cannabis, seeing more cases along those lines seems inevitable.

[Bob]

Wow, slight derail here but that's exactly what I got from: Ibuprofen. The histamine flooding and, not quite all those symptoms, but hives particularly for quite a while. It was a really horrible, extensive outbreak, unlike the handful of other times I have ever experienced it which only lasted an hour or so, this was like a week with no signs of slowing down. Wound up pigging out on cashews for the copper as I was under the impression the liver uses that in its processes. It gave me a mild case of dermatographism which still persists. Never touched any more drug store medicines since then.

It didn't cause any vomiting, nor did anaphylaxis from a hornet nest attack, but peoples' bodies can respond differently to the same stimulus. I am the type who is less sensitive to pain, but itching makes me furious. I didn't actually care about the hornet stings or that I almost died uncontrollably from the throat closure/possible heart problems, but no more hives or rashes, please.

And although I would have to say cannabis is considerably less harmful than many things we might ingest, it does have a playground of unique compounds inside it that deserve research for healing and harmful properties; same with the seeds, oils, fibers, etc., it's an incredibly versatile plant. Adverse reactions may be rare and/or related to an unreasonable level of consumption, but there's water toxicity, vitamin toxicity...with increasingly widespread use of cultured cannabis, seeing more cases along those lines seems inevitable.

Absolutely WONDERFUL observation...

We are modulating our histamine response.. And tossing in Serotonin and cannabidiol triggers and receptors, opioid and endorphin and enkephalin triggers.. AND doing that needs to be properly balanced, and somehow properly balanced. Doing that just right and bliss and joy are triggered.. doing it wrong and ugh.. bad trip..

I recall studies in dolphin (re: John Lilly (http://www.whale.to/b/lilly12.html)) the amount of cannabid receptors are more-so concentrated than in the human brain..

But back to the histamines.. no doubt, at least for me [I could logically deduce]... [probably] excessive something in the 113 active cannabinoids identified in cannabis could very well be triggering the mast cells to release histamines.

When that happens the beneficial suppression [of inflammatory mast cell histamines] stops, and inflammation starts.. If the inflammation is excessive then the body start to exhibit nasty shut-down symptoms.. (see the list in POST #6 above for that list of symptoms)

[lucidity]

I have a (medical) question:
Which varieties of pot have the highest Cannabidiol levels ?

[lucidity]

Absolutely WONDERFUL observation...

We are modulating our histamine response.. And tossing in Serotonin and cannabidiol triggers and receptors, opioid and endorphin and enkephalin triggers.. AND doing that needs to be properly balanced, and somehow properly balanced. Doing that just right and bliss and joy are triggered.. doing it wrong and ugh.. bad trip..

I recall studying in dolphin the amount of cannabidiol receptors are more-so than in the human brain..

But back to the histamines.. no doubt, at least for me... excessive something in the 113 active cannabinoids identified in cannabis could very well be triggering the mast cells to release histamines. When that happens the beneficial suppression stops, and inflammation starts.. If the inflammation is excessive then the body start to exhibit nasty shut-down symptoms..

hi bob :-)

i'm just curious... were you high when you write this post ?

[Basho]

There's a rumor that the federal govt banned or is banning CBD. I've read that in MSM & alternative media. The timing of this article seems auspicious for the ban agenda to me. I don't doubt that this is possible but it is possible that they are making a rare incident seem like a regular occurrence to spread their fear propaganda.

[Bob]

Absolutely WONDERFUL observation...

We are modulating our histamine response.. And tossing in Serotonin and cannabidiol triggers and receptors, opioid and endorphin and enkephalin triggers.. AND doing that needs to be properly balanced, and somehow properly balanced. Doing that just right and bliss and joy are triggered.. doing it wrong and ugh.. bad trip..

I recall studying in dolphin the amount of cannabidiol receptors are more-so than in the human brain..

But back to the histamines.. no doubt, at least for me... excessive something in the 113 active cannabinoids identified in cannabis could very well be triggering the mast cells to release histamines. When that happens the beneficial suppression stops, and inflammation starts.. If the inflammation is excessive then the body start to exhibit nasty shut-down symptoms..

hi bob :-)

i'm just curious... were you high when you write this post ?

That was a bit rude. I don't use recreational drugs of any kind - I am able to technically research many reports and come up with observations and logical conclusions. My background includes being an EMT, MET, emergency rescue work, first responder.

[NancyV]

Thanks for this info! I've been dosing myself and my husband with CBD oil, high quality/potency and organic, for about 14 months now. I increased my husband's dosage a few months ago and he has been vomiting excessively for about 3 months now. We thought it was related to a cataract operation he had on only one eye which made him dizzy because the other eye was still impaired with a cataract. In fact they delayed operating on the other eye because he vomited as he was going into the operating room to get the second eye done. So he remained very dizzy for about a month waiting for the 2nd eye to have the cataract removed.

We thought the vomiting would end after his dizziness stopped, but it didn't. I then thought the vomiting was related to his kidney disease but he doesn't think so. His symptoms of nausea are similar to what was described with pain behind the sternum and then feeling sick for an hour or two and vomiting almost daily, at least 5 days a week. I will now stop the CBD oil for him completely and see if that stops the vomiting. He is allergic to many things so this could easily be one of them. Perhaps his system is just overloaded with CBD oil now and after stopping for a while I'll start him on a much smaller amount so he can perhaps get the benefits but not the potential drawbacks. It's definitely worth a try to see if CBD oil might be the cause of this vomiting.

I will continue taking CBD oil as it works very well for me. Once when we ran out and I didn't take it for a few days I started getting the painful leg cramps that I had been experiencing for several years. When I resumed the CBD oil the cramps again stopped. We don't smoke any marijuana at all so if the vomiting stops for my husband, I will at least be able to assume that CBD oil might be the culprit. Of course if this info is correct, no matter how small a percentage of people are affected this way it will be used to demonize CBD oil for everyone (unless supervised by a "professional") LOL. One thing we know for sure is that marijuana and it's products are going to go through the ongoing typical control struggle. Those who desire money, power and control always use everything to benefit their agenda.

[Bob]

I have a (medical) question:
Which varieties of pot have the highest Cannabidiol levels ?

PA is not a place where recreational "drug use" questions are specifically discussed. In keeping with that general policy, a brief observation which touches on a larger policy change happening around the world with legalization of cannabis for medical use and recreational use in some States of the US could be appropriate if for instance an "adverse health related question" comes up.. Such as in another thread it was noted that adulteration of "protein" with melamine plastic (contamination from some Chinese companies) poses a risk of death or serious injury to people and animals.

Cannabidiol is generally considered as a substance which tones down THC (the stuff that gets one high). It is generally noted as a controller of inflammation. Inflammation and disease go hand-n-hand. Inflammation is a natural response to a foreign protein in the body which activated the immune system, and the target areas where mast cells react (releasing histamine), induces a way to stop in invading protein from spreading for instance. When a full body histamine response starts to happen it can become life threatening. For instance the epinephrine pen, (adrenaline) acts as a histamine reverser given quickly enough..

Some good research material to answer that question yourself - https://books.google.com/books?id=IZrGAQAAQBAJ&pg=PA369&lpg=PA369&dq=lyceum+drug&source=bl&ots=yVZSV0yT9X&sig=IMejdnTboUmm09aAt1d1BUz9UsQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwibi-urr6bRAhXF2ywKHexCDJIQ6AEIgAEwFQ#v=onepage&q=lyceum%20drug&f=false

http://www.medicinalgenomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Bergamaschi_2011.pdf - safety and side effects of cannabidiol

Abstract:


Abstract: Cannabidiol (CBD), a major nonpsychotropic constituent of Cannabis, has multiple pharmacological actions,
including anxiolytic, antipsychotic, antiemetic and anti-inflammatory properties. However, little is known about its safety
and side effect profile in animals and humans. This review describes in vivo and in vitro reports of CBD administration
across a wide range of concentrations, based on reports retrieved from Web of Science, Scielo and Medline. The
keywords searched were “cannabinoids”, “cannabidiol” and “side effects”. Several studies suggest that CBD is non-toxic
in non-transformed cells and does not induce changes on food intake, does not induce catalepsy, does not affect
physiological parameters (heart rate, blood pressure and body temperature), does not affect gastrointestinal transit and
does not alter psychomotor or psychological functions. Also, chronic use and high doses up to 1,500 mg/day of CBD are
reportedly well tolerated in humans. Conversely, some studies reported that this cannabinoid can induce some side effects,
including inhibition of hepatic drug metabolism, alterations of in vitro cell viability, decreased fertilization capacity, and
decreased activities of p-glycoprotein and other drug transporters. Based on recent advances in cannabinoid administration
in humans, controlled CBD may be safe in humans and animals. However, further studies are needed to clarify these
reported in vitro and in vivo side effects.

There is a section in that publication that gets into chronic use and changes in the immune system (which is what I hypothesized early in this thread). The article is also very good for describing many types of tests and uses for cannabidiol for treating many disease symptoms. In dose determination studies in Rhesus monkeys, convulsions and emesis occurred at intermediate doses. That would suggest that the issue discussed in the OP post 1 could not just be an isolated case..

Their conclusion (brief) is as follows:


Several studies suggest that CBD is well tolerated and safe in humans at high doses and with chronic use.

However, in vitro and in vivo studies showed potential drug metabolism interactions, cytotoxicity, and decreased receptor activity.

This data highlights the need for careful monitoring of CBD use in humans, especially when CBD is used in clinical practice [..]

As was pointed out in one of the posts in this thread, the "right dose" for the particular condition has to be determined, and that data is not yet fully understood by practitioners. The most skilled plant Ethnobotanists and herbalists in North and South America have practiced and developed the "art" over thousands of years, passing the skills and knowledge from generation to generation.

Why something works for a particular issue with a particular individual and not for another appears to be individual body chemistry, psychological make-up, and how the immune system treats a foreign substance.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2086039 -


Many rainforest plant species, including trees and herbaceous plants, are employed as medicines by indigenous people. In much of the American tropics, locally harvested herbal medicines are used for a significant portion of the primary health care, in both rural and urban areas. An experienced curandero or herbal healer is familiar with those species with marked biological activity, which are often classified as 'powerful plants'.

The largest "technical related" website probably is Erowid - https://erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Cannabidiol.shtml which has a large section on "personal experiences" reported by experimenters, users..

A supplementary page on that website - https://erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Cannabis.shtml

They have a section on "Health Problems" which appear to have occurred - https://erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Cannabis_Health_Problems.shtml

This report in particular talks about "Convulsions" and is describing what appears to be a severe histamine possibly mast cell release - https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=59794


Within five minutes, I was lying on the floor. My heart was beating so hard that it hurt, and I was having trouble breathing. My body started uncontrollably convulsing and shaking although I was conscious and aware. I layed there as motionless as possible trying to lower my heartrate, but the convulsions kept getting worse. Every time I attempted to move, a terrible sensation rushed over me, forcing me to be still. I didn't think I would die or anything, but I was still frightened by the experience. I was calm and almost sleepy, so I knew that it wasn't anxiety that was causing this. This was a reaction of some sort. I am surprised I did not lose consciousness. After listening and feeling the awful, regular explosion of my heart for 35 more minutes or so, my brother knocked on the door and I managed to crawl to the handle and open it. I crawled the rest of the way to the recliner in the living room, and there I stayed for the rest of the night.

[Bob]

Thanks for this info! I've been dosing myself and my husband with CBD oil, high quality/potency and organic, for about 14 months now. I increased my husband's dosage a few months ago and he has been vomiting excessively for about 3 months now. We thought it was related to a cataract operation he had on only one eye which made him dizzy because the other eye was still impaired with a cataract. In fact they delayed operating on the other eye because he vomited as he was going into the operating room to get the second eye done. So he remained very dizzy for about a month waiting for the 2nd eye to have the cataract removed.

We thought the vomiting would end after his dizziness stopped, but it didn't. I then thought the vomiting was related to his kidney disease but he doesn't think so. His symptoms of nausea are similar to what was described with pain behind the sternum and then feeling sick for an hour or two and vomiting almost daily, at least 5 days a week. I will now stop the CBD oil for him completely and see if that stops the vomiting. He is allergic to many things so this could easily be one of them. Perhaps his system is just overloaded with CBD oil now and after stopping for a while I'll start him on a much smaller amount so he can perhaps get the benefits but not the potential drawbacks. It's definitely worth a try to see if CBD oil might be the cause of this vomiting.

I will continue taking CBD oil as it works very well for me. Once when we ran out and I didn't take it for a few days I started getting the painful leg cramps that I had been experiencing for several years. When I resumed the CBD oil the cramps again stopped. We don't smoke any marijuana at all so if the vomiting stops for my husband, I will at least be able to assume that CBD oil might be the culprit. Of course if this info is correct, no matter how small a percentage of people are affected this way it will be used to demonize CBD oil for everyone (unless supervised by a "professional") LOL. One thing we know for sure is that marijuana and it's products are going to go through the ongoing typical control struggle. Those who desire money, power and control always use everything to benefit their agenda.

Hi Nancy - thinking on the vomiting.. Allergy comes to mind, and possibly the anesthetic used combined with the CBD oil might be the reaction trigger.. A combination reaction.

In one of those technical reports a mention of suppression of certain cells happens with CBD.. If vertigo (sensations of spinning, out of balance) is happening that could possibly be related to one eye being clear and the other not.. The point being interactions between drugs, which may cause nervous system alteration (like anesthetics) and CBD are not known about fully. And this is where more scientific work needs to be accomplished and the studies published.

In Cataract surgery - http://www.medindia.net/doctors/drug_information/nepafenac_ophthalmic.htm a drug called Nepafenac is used which is classed as an anti-inflammation substance. CBD is also an anti-inflammation substance, and quite possibly one then could experience CBD over-dose reactions (i.e. the vomiting)..

On this page are listings of anti-inflammatory substances (meds) - http://www.medindia.net/drugs/therapeutic-classification/anti-inflammatory-agents.htm possibly going through that list to see what if any are being used for the cataract post-operative treatment could provide an idea what could be the interaction issue..

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Nope, i dont buy it. It'll take more than that to scare me lol

[Bob]

There's a rumor that the federal govt banned or is banning CBD. I've read that in MSM & alternative media. The timing of this article seems auspicious for the ban agenda to me. I don't doubt that this is possible but it is possible that they are making a rare incident seem like a regular occurrence to spread their fear propaganda.

Here is some data on that from Investor Politics - http://investorplace.com/investorpolitics/cbd-oil-illegal/ - earlier it was mentioned $$$ and politics play the role in controlling any product which can have a healthful or harmful effect..

Dec 16, 2016, 5:35 pm EST | By Karl Utermohlen, InvestorPlace Writer

The Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) has made a ruling on CBD oil.


DEA Acting Administrator Chuck Rosenberg said the new law will pave way for the agency to exercise its power in tracking quantities of CBD oil.
The agency said these substances are federally illegal Schedule I substances. “Extracts of marihuana will continue to be treated as Schedule I controlled substances,” the notice says.
Some websites are selling the substance on their website, which they may legally be able to do if the THC percentage in hemp is 0.3% or less.
The code is 21 CFR Part 1308 and it mentions marijuana extracts.
However, the DEA says that this isn’t the case as all extracts that contain CBD also contain other cannabinoids, thus ensuring they are illegal.
The agency ensures that they could prosecute even if they find small traces of the substance.
CBD oil is often seen as an alternative way of consuming marijuana that doesn’t require smoking.


also - https://www.leafly.com/news/politics/new-dea-rule-says-cbd-oil-really-truly-no-joke-illegal


Today’s Federal Register (Dec. 14, 2016) contains an item (21 CFR Part 1308) that establishes a new drug code for “marihuana extract.”

“This code,” wrote DEA Acting Administrator Chuck Rosenberg, “will allow DEA and DEA-registered entities to track quantities of this material separately from quantities of marihuana.” The move, the Register entry explained, is meant to bring the US into compliance with international drug-control treaties.

There is no major change in law brought about by the Register item. Rather, it serves to clarify and reinforce the DEA’s position on all cannabis extracts, including CBD oil. That position is: They are all federally illegal Schedule I substances.

“Extracts of marihuana will continue to be treated as Schedule I controlled substances,” the notice says.

"What DEA Administrator Rosenberg seems to be saying with this clarification is: You may be able to grow hemp. But if you try to extract CBD oil from it, the DEA considers that a federal crime."


Although the DEA considers CBD oil to be a federally illegal Schedule I drug, there are temporary safeguards in place that protect patients in many states from federal prosecution over possession of the oil.

The Rohrabacher-Farr amendment is the most important of those protections.

Originally passed in 2014, the amendment to a Congressional appropriations bill prohibits the Justice Department from spending funds to interfere with the implementation of state medical cannabis laws. (It is silent on adult-use laws.)

In August, the federal 9th US Circuit Court upheld Rohrabacher-Farr in the face of a challenge brought by federal prosecutors.

more - https://www.leafly.com/news/politics/federal-court-bars-justice-department-from-prosecuting-medical-ca

==update==

"Robert Hoban, a Colorado cannabis attorney (https://hoban.law/node/2) and adjunct professor of law at the University of Denver, raised the notion that the rule itself may not be lawful. “This action is beyond the DEA’s authority,” Hoban told Leafly in an interview late this afternoon.

“The DEA can only carry out the law, they cannot create it.

"Here they’re purporting to create an entirely new category called ‘marijuana extracts,’ and by doing so wrest control over all cannabinoids. They want to call all cannabinoids illegal. But they don’t have the authority to do that.”

"The new DEA rule, Hoban said, may threaten hundreds, possibly thousands, of jobs and growing businesses. Those business owners based their investments and careers on previous definitions of hemp and cannabidiol in the Controlled Substances Act and modified by federal courts."

(above from "Leafy" - https://www.leafly.com/news/politics/new-dea-rule-says-cbd-oil-really-truly-no-joke-illegal )

reference - Robert Hoban, Colorado attorney -


In 2016, Bob was selected as a member of the Boulder Colorado inaugural Marijuana Policy Advisory Committee and asked to serve on the Colorado Department of Agriculture's Industrial Hemp Advisory Committee.

Former President of the Cannabis Business Alliance, Bob was also a member of the Colorado Medical Marijuana Enforcement Division Rules Committee and is currently a member of the National Hemp Association, National Cannabis Industry Association and Colorado Cannabis Chamber of Commerce.

In addition, Bob was involved as a drafter of Colorado’s marijuana regulatory legislation and has drafted over 30 bills for the Colorado General Assembly.

and


In August 2015, he taught an international travel course in Uruguay concerning that country's landmark cannabis regulatory framework [http://kdvr.com/2015/12/10/du-students-travel-to-uruguay-to-learn-about-the-cannabis-culture/].

In September, 2015, Mr. Hoban was hired by the University College of Professional and Continuing Studies at D.U. to develop and instruct medical marijuana and related regulatory courses in its Healthcare Leadership graduate program.

He will instruct a multi student research practicum in the Winter of 2016 concerning the legal, policy, and regulatory framework surrounding the rebirth of industrial hemp.

Because of this work, Mr. Hoban has worked with numerous state, local and international governments in developing both marijuana and industrial hemp regulations.

As part of this effort, Bob has drafted more than 30 bills for the Colorado General Assembly (eminent domain/land use, hemp/marijuana and transportation).

Questions to Robert Hoban could possibly be directed to their office:
DENVER OFFICE
The Equitable Building
730 17th Street, Suite 420
Denver, Colorado 80202

PHONE 303.674.7000
https://www.linkedin.com/in/hobanandfeola

[lucidity]

Absolutely WONDERFUL observation...

We are modulating our histamine response.. And tossing in Serotonin and cannabidiol triggers and receptors, opioid and endorphin and enkephalin triggers.. AND doing that needs to be properly balanced, and somehow properly balanced. Doing that just right and bliss and joy are triggered.. doing it wrong and ugh.. bad trip..

I recall studying in dolphin the amount of cannabidiol receptors are more-so than in the human brain..

But back to the histamines.. no doubt, at least for me... excessive something in the 113 active cannabinoids identified in cannabis could very well be triggering the mast cells to release histamines. When that happens the beneficial suppression stops, and inflammation starts.. If the inflammation is excessive then the body start to exhibit nasty shut-down symptoms..

hi bob :-)

i'm just curious... were you high when you write this post ?

That was a bit rude. I don't use recreational drugs of any kind - I am able to technically research many reports and come up with observations and logical conclusions. My background includes being an EMT, MET, emergency rescue work, first responder.

My apologies... It wasn't intended to be rude.

[peggy englebrake]

The problem is not the plant. The problem is the genetic manipulation of a beneficial plant and the "regulated" growing of the plant (meaning you can't really trust what other harmful agents have been spayed on it) in order to control and make a profit by the US Govt, Inc. As long as we continue to allow a corrupt government to control any of our health issues we are giving permission to being poisoned, abused and bankrupted. Pharmaceutical medicines are poison. (My background; 45 years as a Emergency Medicine doctor, now alternative healer).

[Bob]

The problem is not the plant. The problem is the genetic manipulation of a beneficial plant and the "regulated" growing of the plant (meaning you can't really trust what other harmful agents have been spayed on it) in order to control and make a profit by the US Govt, Inc. As long as we continue to allow a corrupt government to control any of our health issues we are giving permission to being poisoned, abused and bankrupted. Pharmaceutical medicines are poison. (My background; 45 years as a Emergency Medicine doctor, now alternative healer).

It would be great Penny to have the proper chemical analysis done on the plant that he was consuming.. Such as was it "sprayed" with something to enhance the effects, something extracted.. The studies though of CBD (Cannabidiol), the inactive non psychotropic component of the cannabis plant is the subject of studies which showed some reactivity in Rhesus monkeys did happen with moderate amounts - convulsions and emesis.. My personal belief in dealing with allergies, is a person can over time become reactive (allergic) to a protein where at first they are not reacting negatively to it.. I would have wanted to see the doctors in Colorado Springs, CO who published the alert try using a proper anti-histamine and see if the emesis and convulsions stopped.

BUT DEA is insisting that CBD oil has to be classed Schedule 1, no medical use determined.. and a 'high' potential for abuse.. Sounds really odd considering how many effective medical uses have been observed and the potential for abuse is nil with pure CBD.

[peggy englebrake]

A plant heals not just by it's chemical components, but by it's essence or energy. How a plant is grown (it's physical and spiritual surroundings) and how it is harvested also effect the intended results. Throughout my medical career I was aware of the constant indoctrination from "authoritarian" sources that a "sick person" should not be given anything in their medicine that makes them feel good (like eliminating the THC's). Really? Feeling bad helps you to heal? The "cancer treatments" only deplete the immune system. Those cancer patients need to feel depressed, nauseated, victimized. But of course the western medical system is about control and greed, not healing.

[Bob]

A plant heals not just by it's chemical components, but by it's essence or energy. How a plant is grown (it's physical and spiritual surroundings) and how it is harvested also effect the intended results. Throughout my medical career I was aware of the constant indoctrination from "authoritarian" sources that a "sick person" should not be given anything in their medicine that makes them feel good (like eliminating the THC's). Really? Feeling bad helps you to heal? The "cancer treatments" only deplete the immune system. Those cancer patients need to feel depressed, nauseated, victimized. But of course the western medical system is about control and greed, not healing.

GMO production pot as shown in some of the commercial green houses in Colorado certainly don't appear to have an ideal essence or energy present.. Batch product CBD may also have similar issues. So as to using cannabis or CBD then "industrially created" along that holistic healing method certainly would not qualify.

As far as energetically documenting the healing quality of a plant or plant based product to be consumed or otherwise utilized (talisman use for instance), being able to document such and to then be able to create the appropriate reports for "Agencies" who demand "proof" and who setup the laws behind use or not, requires documentation.. Chemical mass spectrographic, or FTIR identification is the gold standard in documentation and of course Forensic's labs..

So to document what happened with the person consuming excessive CBD, what documentation using what analysis can be determined - what other substance(s) may the person have been using, what "practices" (or lack thereof) would the person have been experiencing? What lighting, what job, (environmental factors).. I didn't see any of that in the Colorado Report which was behind the OP post 1's reference. So in looking at what the "Agencies" would want to know what can be documented to verify that CBD was the culprit, and not some additional spray on the raw cannabis that the person was consuming.. How much per day? What THC content (and CBD content), for how many days..

Statistically it becomes difficult to look at CBD if it has been classed as Schedule 1 when much documentation exists that CBD is tolerated well, and it's potential for abuse is NIL.. (those two issues alone make it something that Schedule 1 labeling is not appropriate).. DEA argues a slight trace of THC (schedule 1) is present.. So they want to lump the whole product line as schedule 1.

What trace of Cocaine is present in different sold food products? Or other schedule 1 drugs?

This is a bit alarming - Drugs found in Puget Sound salmon from tainted wastewater


From Prozac to caffeine to cholesterol medicine, from ibuprofen to bug spray, researchers found an alphabet soup of drugs and other personal-care products in sewage-treatment wastewater and in the tissue of juvenile chinook in Puget Sound.

Will the DEA then bad such fish? http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/drugs-flooding-into-puget-sound-and-its-salmon/

A trace of THC found in CBD (Cannabidiol) which has no psychoactive properties, had no potential for abuse, has medical benefits and causing it to be labeled Schedule-1 just seems like tossing the baby out with the bathwater. That CBD may have a situation with overdose or allergic reaction may trigger convulsions or emesis (vomiting) is concerning.. Finding out why is needed, and finding out if it was something else in the cannabis consumed is important.. Remove variables in other words..

[shaberon]

On the cocaine question, you may remember a situation from several years ago where numerous bank employees were fired for testing positive. Later, it turned out that cash (particularly $100 bills) often is coated with the residue from people rolling it into tubes to snort the stuff. Cash is particularly filthy, with generally the more circulated (i. e., lower denominations) being more foul than a crisp new "yard".

Sadly, so many things work their way into the water system, from brake fluid to the secreted metabolites of anti-psychotic drugs. Considering all the environmental factors, it would seem really difficult to find a pure "control subject" in terms of any human being. I can attest to the fact that one of the drinking reservoirs for a local city is fed by a great deal of storm drain runoff from the next city, and is also a scene for boats and people swimming in it (some have said they get a rash from being in this water).

So if you *could* study CBD, it might be next to impossible to remove the variables.

[Bob]

Again a Brilliant Post Shaberon - :)

I would think USDA or FDA (having been re-structured) to look at contamination, adulteration and safety (no harmful GMO's or pesticides) is correct.. Where is the concern to see that the uncontrolled emission of substances into the water, in some cases the water used in agriculture is addressed? I recall Beluga Whales in the St. Lawrence Seaway are considered if they die hazardous waste due to the dioxins present.. (one can only think Kodak may understand more than they are revealing upstream) http://www.rochestercitynewspaper.com/rochester/whos-worrying-about-the-water/Content?oid=2538327

If the 'protector' agencies can't figure out research is needed, and blankedly stop safe exploration where are we? Back to the Inquisition days? Dark ages? Where is the research being conducted of the Amazon rainforest plant products? The research of the sea? the immense storehouse of amazing substances nature brings to us? Restructuring of the DEA appears to be needed, maybe Trump will take a look at that..

[sdv]

Hi folks

Vomiting as a possible side-effect was documented by Robert S. De Ropp in his book The Master Game. Here he refers to red oil of hashish ...


Of the drugs that can more properly be called "psychedelics," the substance variously known as
hashish, marihuana, bhang, charas, etc., which is derived from the resinous flowers of the common
hemp (Cannabis sativa), is the most subtle, the most harmless and the most interesting. The drug is
not a narcotic, is not habit-forming, is mild in its action and nontoxic. Were it not for the barbedwire
entanglement of prohibitive legislation that has been erected around this harmless weed by
various busybodies who take a professional pride in curtailing the liberties of their fellow-men, it
would certainly be the material of choice for one interested in exploring drug-induced changes in
consciousness. The effects of this botanical have been described at some length in a previous
book.23 A few additional observations derived from the author's experiences while working on the
chemistry of the drug may be of interest.
Red oil of hemp, a partially purified extract,26 was used in these experiments. A dose of thirty
milligrams taken orally after a fast of twenty-four hours began to produce its effect an hour after
ingestion. This first, "induction" phase of the drug's action was experienced as being somewhat
unpleasant. There was a reddening of the conjunctivae, a dryness in the mouth, an uneasiness in the
stomach. An overdose of the preparation (up to loomg) induced vomiting. This vomiting was of an
especially disagreeable character because hashish, at this stage, inhibits the secretion of saliva,
exerting in this respect an action similar to that of the drugs scopolamine or atropine. Such action is
called "anticholin-ergic" and indicates that the drug is blocking the activity of that part of the
autonomic nervous system called "parasympathetic." So far as concerns the stop-start mechanism in
the brain, hashish, at this stage, presses the stop button.

[Bob]

In 2015 there was a cannabis recall - http://www.thecannabist.co/2015/12/07/pot-pesticides-marijuana/44740/

There was mention in an earlier post that possibly pesticide contamination was responsible for the person in the OP post 1 having continual vomiting and convulsions from excessive cannabis consumption. The report was generated by a MD out of a Colorado Springs hospital.

What would have been appropriate to test is what pesticide residuals may have been present and if the person with the symptoms had residual pesticides (or their decomposition products present) somewhere in their system. Colorado's Department of Agriculture has a list of the potentially used pesticides which left on the plant being consumed could be highly dangerous:

These below are the five most common state-banned pesticides which were seen in the marijuana recalls issued by Denver’s Department of Environmental Health in 2015 — and what pesticide experts know about them.


Myclobutanil: Fungicide. Active ingredient in Eagle 20 pesticide brand. Considered “slightly hazardous” by the World Health Organization, a “Bad Actor” by the Pesticide Action Network and its own label warns of nervous system problems and toxic fumes.

Imidacloprid: Insecticide. Found in Merit and Mallet pesticide brands. Considered “moderately hazardous” by the WHO, and the National Pesticide Information Center says it’s moderately toxic if ingested or inhaled.

Abamectin and the avermectin chemical family: Insecticide. Found in Avid and Lucid pesticide brands. PAN lists avermectin as a “Bad Actor,” and Avid labels say it’s “harmful if inhaled.”

Etoxazole: Insecticide. Found in TetraSan 5 WDG pesticide brand, which is primarily used on ornamental and landscape plants.

Spiromesifen: Insecticide. Found in Oberon, Judo and Forbid brand pesticides.


So to complicate the issue of trying to determine the cause(s), pesticide/fungicide residues could be possible in CBD oil, and in high potency cannabis. Consuming the pesticides/fungicides is not healthy, and damage to the nervous system is possible, as well as many organs.

Other insecticides could have been present in the cannabis consumed could be an organophosphate. Organophosphates are nerve poisons.

see - http://beyondpesticides.org/dailynewsblog/2015/10/colorado-consumers-sue-over-illegal-pesticides-in-marijuana/

Colorado’s largest pot grower, LivWell Inc., was sued over illegal pesticide use in a law suit filed Monday in Denver District Court. Two marijuana users, one of whom suffers from a brain tumor and holds a medical card to use the product, allege that the grower used a potentially dangerous pesticide in the production of marijuana they later purchased. The suit asks for an undisclosed amount of damages and also claims that an implied promise to consumers was breached when LivWell sold high-grade and medical-grade marijuana treated with unapproved pesticides to consumers.

The main pesticide at issue in this case is myclobutanil or Eagle 20, which is the same product that led to tens thousands of plants being quarantined last spring after testing positive for the fungicide during a routine inspection by the Denver Department of Environmental Health. Growers claim that without the fungicide their plants are endangered. The 40-page lawsuit claims that myclobutanil, when heated, breaks down to “poisonous hydrogen cyanide” and alleges that consumers who smoke marijuana treated with Eagle 20 ingest the gas.”

The suit also takes issue with the fact that, although myclobutanil is used on other food crops, there are no allowable levels for it on marijuana because it is an illegal crop under federal law.

There is ongoing debate in Colorado over what pesticides are safe to use on marijuana. In other words, the "pot" is not "clean weed"... both for commercial/recreational grown cannabis as well as medical cannabis..

Similarly in Washington State pesticide toxicity in May of 2016 resulted in a recall. http://beyondpesticides.org/dailynewsblog/2016/05/washington-state-institutes-recall-procedures-for-marijuana-tainted-pot/

The issue is, legislators are picking what "below the threshold level" is considered "safe" for consumption..

it is not all good news as the state also set allowable levels for unapproved pesticides on pot.

Washington State currently lists over 200 pesticide products as permitted in cannabis production, despite their lack of compliance with federal and state testing requirements for the range of consumer, worker, and environmental exposures.

Outside of that list, the state previously employed a “zero tolerance” policy for marijuana testing positive for any other pesticides.

However, amid concerns of drift from neighboring food-crop farms, as well as alleged difficulties for labs to test for zero residue, the LCB set thresholds for unapproved pesticides that mirror levels adopted by Oregon.

According to the new rules, anything testing below the threshold levels is considered safe, despite the lack of testing for increased exposure through inhalation, ingestion, and skin absorption of pesticide-treated marijuana.

[NancyV]

Just wanted to thank you again for posting this info, Bob! I stopped giving my husband the CBD oil on the night of the 3rd after reading this in the afternoon. The next morning he felt only slightly nauseated for a couple of minutes. Yesterday he had no nausea at all and felt fine all day. This is a huge change from his vomiting almost every day for the last few months.

I will still continue taking CBD oil as I don't seem to have a negative reaction to the dosage we were both taking, but I may cut the dosage down a bit. I usually figure if a little bit is good then a LOT must be better! This attitude has gotten me into trouble many times... LOL

The funny thing is I know that even a small amount of energy can have a big effect, such as in homeopathic remedies... or even in the placebo effect where if you think you are going to get better, you do. But I still tend to overdo way too many things so apparently I still need to learn finesse and appropriate action, not smashing things with a hammer! (my excuse is that I'm a taurus, one that is more like the bull in the china shop)

After a couple of weeks I will start him on just a few drops and see what the appropriate dosage is. (unless he refuses the experiment). I have poisoned him so many times that we had a good laugh about me poisoning him yet again.

[Bob]

Good to hear the results Nancy :) Thanks for the report and observations.

SDV (above post 25) mentioned from within a report that some part of the parasympathetic nervous system is being affected with the writer talking about orally ingesting "a red (hemp extract) oil". The red oil is a concentrate containing presumably all of the constituents extracted, THC included with the CBD.

Also the potential for pesticide contamination exists with products obtained from commercial growers (post 26 above). Does one know if the CBD is guaranteed pure and an analysis exists (to be seen) from a chromatographic analysis? Certified pesticide free?

I was looking at some old research papers "BULLETIN OF THE NEW YORK ACADEMY OF MEDICINE NOVEMBER, 1942" and noticed that they said, Cannabidiol (CBD) when treated by Ozone converts over to Formaldehyde (which is quite toxic). Possibly one then taking ozone therapy and CBD could be risking toxicity. The allergy issue still comes to mind.

[NancyV]

Good to hear the results Nancy :) Thanks for the report and observations.

SDV (above post 25) mentioned from within a report that some part of the parasympathetic nervous system is being affected with the writer talking about orally ingesting "a red (hemp extract) oil". The red oil is a concentrate containing presumably all of the constituents extracted, THC included with the CBD.

Also the potential for pesticide contamination exists with products obtained from commercial growers (post 26 above). Does one know if the CBD is guaranteed pure and an analysis exists (to be seen) from a chromatographic analysis? Certified pesticide free?

I was looking at some old research papers "BULLETIN OF THE NEW YORK ACADEMY OF MEDICINE NOVEMBER, 1942" and noticed that they said, Cannabidiol (CBD) when treated by Ozone converts over to Formaldehyde (which is quite toxic). Possibly one then taking ozone therapy and CBD could be risking toxicity. The allergy issue still comes to mind.

I'm pretty sure that in this case it's an allergy, Bob. I've seen test results on the CBD oil I buy and it has a negligible amount of THC. We don't get at all high from it and it is legal. Also this is from organically grown hemp. The company appears to care a lot about purity and quality. I would not have bought it if I thought there were any pesticides used. Plus I'm never surprised when my husband has an allergic reaction as he is allergic to so many weird things. :)