Max Spiers: The Astral Plane under control?

[Noelle]

I hope I am posting this in the right sub-forum. If not, please let me know.
I watched my first Max Spiers video today (lecture in Poland in April 2016).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JukclW5_IGU

I heard about his death a while ago, but was reminded to checkout his work after watching Kerry Cassidy’s latest presentation in Prague, in which she talks about him and his suspicious death. My questions relate to Spiers’ remarks about how the Astral Plane, or the fourth dimension, is under the same controlling consciousness as that which manipulates the Physical Plane, or our 3-D existence. I’m often in the astral world, consciously exploring, and am really hoping that Spiers is wrong about this. Then, again, I have had a few encounters with reptilian-like beings in the astral, so maybe there is some truth to it. My questions are: Is this notion that the Astral Plane is under control widely accepted? If yes, who else has researched or provided testimony about this? Any resources (i.e., articles, videos, threads, etc.) that anyone can point me to would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

[white wizard]

Yes lower levels of the Astral plane are very controlled.

As you go higher up the control loosens. The Astral plane

Is massive and made up of many layers. You are free to

Travel to whichever part of the realm you vibrations

Matches. There is also control on a smaller scale when

You enter the in between lives plane where your soul is

Stationed in between incarnations. In this level control

Is dictated upon soul contracts reincarnation is a form

Of control used for both good and bad purposes.

Obviously your over soul wouldn't agree to reincarnation

If it didn't have a major benefit for you but reincarnation

Has the negative aspects of enslaving some souls

[Noelle]

Thank you for the response, White Wizard. When you say lower levels, do you mean those that are nearest to the Physical Plane? I've only encountered these reptilian-like entities when I am in the local astral, specifically while still in my home.

[shaberon]

The "lower astral", if you would call it that, is more or less just a living blueprint of the physical world. I wouldn't accept that a plane of existence is controlled, but the more that idea gets widespread, the more control there would be, so to even think about it, sounds like giving into it and becoming a participant yourself.

The astral world as a whole is illusionary and almost useless and, as long as you keep your mind focused above it, nothing there can affect you.

[lucidity]

Yes lower levels of the Astral plane are very controlled.

As you go higher up the control loosens. The Astral plane

Is massive and made up of many layers. You are free to

Travel to whichever part of the realm you vibrations

Matches. There is also control on a smaller scale when

You enter the in between lives plane where your soul is

Stationed in between incarnations. In this level control

Is dictated upon soul contracts reincarnation is a form

Of control used for both good and bad purposes.

Obviously your over soul wouldn't agree to reincarnation

If it didn't have a major benefit for you but reincarnation

Has the negative aspects of enslaving some souls

Where have you got this information from ?
Could you specify your source(s) ?

[NancyV]

I agree that there is a hierarchy of control in the astral planes, and I have also experienced that it is less powerful in the higher astral planes as the vibrational frequencies become finer and more powerful. However, this control only controls you if you accept that you are under it's control. So in essence you are the controller of your own illusions. I explored different "levels" of the astral planes for several months before I was able to raise my frequency to be able to travel into other higher frequency dimensions/planes. In the years that followed, when I was leaving my body several times a week, I rarely passed through the astral but would bypass it completely.

Just because other beings will try to convince you that you are under their control and do everything in their power to either entice you to stay in a wonderfully blissful place like some kind of "heaven", or frighten you into subservience with attacks from demon like beings or powerful negative entities, doesn't mean you need to accept the illusion they are trying to convince you is a reality. Nothing in the astral is actually a "reality" unless you want it to be and/or accept it. You may have to undergo many uncomfortable experiences as I did until you find your own way out. Some people may bypass the astral entirely. I rather enjoyed the battles, the games and the illusions for a short time (earth time). There is no time in the astral unless you are fixated on this illusion. So it felt like I was engaging there for eons, an eternity. It's almost impossible to describe "NO TIME" in human words.

These other beings who hang around the astral plane like being there and will stay as long as the vibrational frequency suits them. Ultimately each being is a part of me/us as we are all one and we are all collectively the Source....at all times and in no time.
:)

[Noelle]

Thanks for the responses, all. NancyV, well put. Some astral explorers who have written books talk about negative beings, such as Robert Bruce, though your energy would have to resonate in those lower frequencies to encounter them. William Buhlman says these beings are our own fears that we bring into an experience. In the encounters that I referred to, I never saw what they looked liked. I would feel something reach out for me from behind, put a hand (that felt claw-like and unfriendly) on my astral shoulder, arm, or leg. And these encounters always took place in my home (the local astral) and almost immediately after tuning out of the physical. I never had fear, just annoyance, and would tell whatever it was to "Get off me." In the higher levels, I have not experienced anything negative.

[etheric underground]

My understanding is that on completion of this experience we have an opportunity to judge our pros and cons, basically map
out and weigh the balance of our experience. We then through persuasive guides/ angelics/ family etc... decide to return to
complete our karmic debt or fulfil our requirement of 3d Experience to elevate ourselves.
Kicker being that many like Max have opened Pandora's box on the subject by explaining that often this process keeps us returning
to the prison planet believing we are achieving higher soul experiences but in actual fact are just fooled in returning as a battery pack
to be fed on by overlords in the 4th and 5th dimension.

[shaberon]

Good to see some agreement that total control of individuals is not the case.

Understanding that, it would then be accurate to say that yes, control systems in the physical world (especially hypnotic) are certainly a result of astral methods, mostly done by other human beings. This is not something to be underestimated; though one may extract one's self from the process, it will still be going on almost everywhere you look.

[Noelle]

There seems to be a lot of agreement among those who teach about the Planes of Existence, including the Theosophists, that the Physical Plane is a copy of the Astral Plane; in other words, the Astral Plane molds the Physical Plane. If this is true, then would not this grand manipulation in our physical reality have to emanate from the Astral Plane or maybe even a higher dimension? What etheric underground points out, how we get locked into reincarnating into the 3D reality, may support that.

PS: If this is all a high level virtual reality game, whoever/whatever created it could not have made it any tougher. :sun:

[shaberon]

If this is true, then would not this grand manipulation in our physical reality have to emanate from the Astral Plane or maybe even a higher dimension?

Yes, depending on the level of skill. If I look at certain New Guineans or Kurumbas, they effectively keep their tribes stuck in the stone age by crude astral magic, call it voodoo, ku, evil eye, etc. If I look at very intelligent types like Jesuits or Edward Bernays, they themselves employ crafty mental abilities, but the influence on others is still mostly via the astral. Since the mind or manas of most people remains turned downward into the astral as kama manas. That's how he convinced people they ate bacon for breakfast and benefited the pork industry immensely. But if one can keep the mind turned up towards the spirit, then he cannot convince me I eat bacon for breakfast. Unstoppable force hits immovable object = no effect.

Now for someone who can act freely in the astral, and is up to no good, they are going to try to hit the weakest spot. So if my appetite or instinct for eating pork is very weak, then they are going to push some other button like anger. Is there some dead Jesuit floating around out there punching me repeatedly in the solar plexus, probably so, metaphorically; maybe more like a telepathic blast of irritation. Does it get higher or deeper than the mind of a person bent on these fiendish works, no.

I would not say reincarnation is a choice or a trap any more than waking and sleeping are. You are locked in to a long cycle of it and it's pretty tough, but as each day one may become stronger and wiser, so with the lives. If it was easy, that would be like lifting a piece of tissue paper and calling it exercise.

[DNA]

I'm trying to make sense of this.
He is saying between 72' and 78' a series of God like soul entities were born on this planet, all male.
Satan, Lucifer are two different entities, Joshua, Yeweh, Thoth, and some 40ish other types were born here for some reason and the Annunaki are looking for them.
Basically I got twenty minutes into this and felt like the guy was coming off like Captain Crazy in search of the CoCo Puff Bird.
I mean no disrespect but that is just how the guy is coming off. If anyone wishes to enlighten me on and show me the error of my ways please do so.

[Noelle]

Thank you for the insight, shaberon. And DNA, I am not that familiar with Spiers, but I try to be open-minded and skeptical with information that I expose myself to. I plan on watching some Camelot videos on Spiers this weekend. I bet there is someone in this community who has more to share on Spiers' experiences; maybe there is even someone who knew him.

[guyres]

If there is natural laws, what is not under control ?

[Chris Gilbert]

Are there baddies in the astral, manipulation and control of the reincarnation process? Yeah it's out there. It's also possible for someone who went to New York City and encountered gangsters or loan sharks to assume that the entire city is like that. Earth, the astral, and the Universe are BIG places. There is manipulation that can occur, but to assume it's all micro controlled is ignorant.

[white wizard]

Delores cannon, Andrew Bartzis, and Micheal Newton all have some good pieces to the astral/afterlife world's. And yes the higher astral realms do have minor forms of control. First of you have to be let into these realms by councils if do not have soul code DNA to immigrate to earth's Astral planes. You can't just come to earth planes there is a selection process. Once your here of course that's different. And yes reincarnation is a form Of control and has been used to enslave some beings by manipulation there incarnational paths to keep them stuck here making repeating the same lessons. This doesn't mean everyone's enslaved my soul contracts to earth are incarnational not reincarnational which means I can choose to incarnate on multiple planets and do not accumulate karma like other souls here. There are entire collectives of thousands of souls which form higher over souls. These higher over souls have agendas and can manipulate there entire collective to incarnate to achieve a major goal over several lifetimes and yes those goals can be extremely negative. Hitler was sold out by his soul collective he allowed his group to accumulate massive karma to achieve a goal and after his lifetime he was basically stuck with all that karma and told u can repay it back or loose your soul identity. He chose not to and the energy that made up that being was recycled back into the source. Overall alot of souls benefit from reincarnation if they hadn't their over souls would have never agreed to enter reincarnation. That being said, it is also clear that it can be used by some very smart and negative beings to carry out agendas in duality for a variety of reasons

[tajgill]

From my understanding the Astral plane can be "hijacked" to a certain degree. Max spoke about pocket dimensions in one of his talks. These are dimensions between the 3rd and 4th dimensions. The elite use these dimensions to hold meetings etc in the astral and Sarah Adams talked about once stumbling into one of these meeting when she was staying at a hotel and went astral. I have spoke about this a lot with Sarah and if you are not familiar with astral and are new to it you can not be sure that you are actually in astral as opposed to a hijacked version of the astral. Of course this has a lot to do with your vibration and how aware you are when in astral. People who are new to astral can often get hijacked and they think they are in astral when they are actually in one of these fabricated dimensions that look and feel just like astral but are not. I hope that makes sense, if not I am happy to elaborate further. Thanks.

[Noelle]

Thanks, tajgill. I've been out in the astral quite a bit -- consciously -- and don't think I've ever stumbled into any meetings. But during at least two experiences, I traveled through this starry tunnel that ended at a doorway -- an intricate double door that reminded me of a Classical Greek temple entrance way. I then flew into a large structure that appeared to a be a series of vast rooms where there were other humans, no doubt in astral form, talking and possibly studying. I never felt welcomed there. I sensed whoever was in there was annoyed by my presence. I'm not sure what this place is, an astral learning center, a meeting place?

[Mike]

One gets the impression that he is watching sand pass thru an hour glass and must quickly give the entire history of the universe before the bad guys arrive and blow up the lecture hall.

I simply don't know what to make of his information. It's interesting. It would make for a good movie. But ultimately its just another story with no verfiable bits at all. Its all nebulous, oddly familiar bits n pieces we've all heard before mixed in with a few new odds n ends. Someone will arrive next week with a similiar sounding background but an entirely different story, and we'll all be left scratching our heads.

Id *like* to believe him. But id like to believe Ben Fulford and David Wilcock too; they make me feel good. I want to admire him. If he is what he says he is, he is worthy of deep respect and empathy. But there is a stubborn gap between how I want to feel and how I do feel, and no amount of illuminatti story telling will fill it.

I was sorry to hear he'd passed. He appears to be a young man. Anyone know how he died?

[Noelle]

Nothing at all wrong with your skepticism. It's healthy! The last I heard, his death was suspicious.

Conspiracy theorist Max Spiers vomited black fluid before he died, inquest hears

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/max-spiers-conspiracy-theorist-vomit-black-fluid-death-inquest-coroner-canterbury-a7478786.html