Intelligent Design

[starlight]

Hi all,

I recently came across a fairly interesting article with the main argument being that BECAUSE there is intelligent design all around us, there MUST be an intelligent creator:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-alan-lurie/why-atheists-refuse-to-consider-a-creator_b_1303613.html

Quote from article:
"Late in his life the previously ardent atheist Anthony Flew famously noted, “What I think the DNA material has done is that it has shown, by the almost unbelievable complexity of the arrangements which are needed to produce life, that intelligence must have been involved in getting these extraordinarily diverse elements to work together.”

I was discussing this exact topic the other night with one of my dear friends whom, like many others, steered away from religion once he started digging deeper into science. We talked for an hour about this subject, and at the end he was 100% convinced that there IS a creator and there could be no other explanation.

Personally, this makes complete sense to me. When looking at the biological make up of everything around us, it seems silly to say that it all appeared by "chance."

Many say science disproves a God... but could it perhaps be a way of explaining the intelligent design of creation by a divine being?

I welcome any and all contributions to this thread. :happythumbsup:

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Thanks. Intelligent design is absolutely evident, even to the closed-minded and the atheist - if only they'd think about it for a moment!

It occurs to me quite simply that everywhere we look around us, from the microscopic to macro- we see "order". I don't know if this is a provable scientific principle per se, but order, in my view, cannot 'by accident' emerge from chaos. Order, therefore, is put in order intentionally, by design, by that which created it. An intelligence, obviously.

[ghostrider]

Everyone is different, I follow something like what some ETs call the Creation... The Force in the Star Wars movies explains it in our terms here on Earth... Some other worlds call it the Power... It's an individual walk , people are free to term it to what best suits their understanding... I believe as long as we exercise self responsibility, we can't go wrong...

[Patient]

This thought just popped into my head as I read your post and I can't ignore the feeling it brought to me...

What if the creator is us - all of us - and we created a means for us to try out our creation in a physical form. As we experience life here, we see the mistakes that we make as human beings so it seems that there is a need to continue to experience life in this way and strive to correct our mistakes.

Of course we couldn't come here with our complete powers of creativity or it would be too quick and easy to change things - and if we all had the power to give ourselves anything we wanted in an instant, imagine the chaos around here with everything changing constantly. So, we made some rules for ourselves to follow.

When people mention an intelligent creator they immediately think of one entity. It could very well be all of us.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

^ You have the answer. Everything you said is to my understanding, and in a nutshell, completely correct.

[Foxie Loxie]

Here I am going to quote from a scientist who chose to withdraw from The System & went into hiding. I quote from The Blue Planet Project.

"THE SOURCE has to be a form of intelligent energy operating at the highest possible point of the Frequency Spectrum. If such an energy exists at all, it might permeate the Universe & maintain equal control of each component part. Because of its very high frequency, so high that the energy particles are virtually standing still, the Source has no need to replenish itself in any way that would be acceptable to our environmental sciences. It could actually create & destroy matter by manipulating the lower energies. It would be timeless, because it exists beyond all time fields. It would be infinite because it is not confined by Three-Dimensional Space.

Perhaps if we were in a pure energy state, each particle of energy would itself serve as a synapse, & information could be stored by a slight alteration in frequency....no complex circuitry would be required, & no physical body would be necessary either. The energy patterns would not need material form, it instead would permeate the entire Universe. ...impulse of low energy passing through your brain. If it were so desired, it would control those pulses & thus control your thoughts."

I am no longer in possession of this book, but I do remember I had quite a time trying to buy it after I heard it mentioned on the History Channel! ;)

[starlight]

WOW!

Thank you for your answers thus far. This topic is so interesting because there are no right or wrong answers. We are all blindly throwing darts here.


When people mention an intelligent creator they immediately think of one entity. It could very well be all of us.

You might be on to something, Patient. We are creators in our own physical world as we know it- we think, we act, we create. Our ability to act on free will is what makes us creators of our own physical reality. This reminds me of the 'butterfly effect.' This perspective really gets your mind thinking.

------------------


"THE SOURCE has to be a form of intelligent energy operating at the highest possible point of the Frequency Spectrum. If such an energy exists at all, it might permeate the Universe & maintain equal control of each component part. Because of its very high frequency, so high that the energy particles are virtually standing still, the Source has no need to replenish itself in any way that would be acceptable to our environmental sciences. It could actually create & destroy matter by manipulating the lower energies. It would be timeless, because it exists beyond all time fields. It would be infinite because it is not confined by Three-Dimensional Space.


What an interesting quote Foxie Loxie. I can't even imagine a source that fits such criteria. Its amazing to me that although we are an extremely intelligent species, there is MUCH more we have yet to learn and acknowledge. Maybe we will evolve to learn more as time moves forward?

[Bill Ryan]

Here I am going to quote from a scientist who chose to withdraw from The System & went into hiding. I quote from The Blue Planet Project.

" ... "

I am no longer in possession of this book, but I do remember I had quite a time trying to buy it after I heard it mentioned on the History Channel!

If I have this right, the bulk of it may be here:


http://v-j-enterprises.com/krill4.html

The author is cited as 'O.H. Krill', but it was actually co-written by John Lear and John Grace ('Valdemar Valerian'). It was Grace (as Valerian) who complied the 'Matrix' series of books:


http://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Valdemar%20Valerian%20-%20Matrix%20I-IV

That's not to say that any of this is incorrect... Lear and Grace knew a lot of stuff.

Re Intelligent Design, I'm pretty convinced that this was indeed the driving force behind the extraordinary biosphere we have on Planet Earth. But it's far more like someone's giant science project (maybe ourselves included). For the 'Intelligent Creator', we may have to look no further than a race (or maybe a number of races) of extremely advanced ET scientists.

[enigma3]

Intelligent design is close, but no cigar. THAT (God, Buddha Nature take your pick) is awareness infused with loving kindness, or compassion, or love, or whatever. And that is not intelligence but wisdom. THAT occupies all space. We as humans walk through it, not displace it. If our eyes were attuned to the molecular level only instead of the gross physical level we can experience with our senses, we would see mainly space. All that space between atoms, molecules, etc. That space IS awareness infused with love.
We all have seen many people who have gobs of intelligence but no wisdom. Afraid to open up their hearts and let wisdom flow.

[uzn]

Just to be a smartarse:
There is a saying:
With the first sip of the glas of Science one becomes an Atheist. But when you have drunken the whole glas at the bottom of the Glas you will find god ;)

[awakeningmom]

Here I am going to quote from a scientist who chose to withdraw from The System & went into hiding. I quote from The Blue Planet Project.

" ... "

I am no longer in possession of this book, but I do remember I had quite a time trying to buy it after I heard it mentioned on the History Channel!

If I have this right, the bulk of it may be here:


http://v-j-enterprises.com/krill4.html

The author is cited as 'O.H. Krill', but it was actually co-written by John Lear and John Grace ('Valdemar Valerian'). It was Grace (as Valerian) who complied the 'Matrix' series of books:


http://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Valdemar%20Valerian%20-%20Matrix%20I-IV

That's not to say that any of this is incorrect... Lear and Grace knew a lot of stuff.

Re Intelligent Design, I'm pretty convinced that this was indeed the driving force behind the extraordinary biosphere we have on Planet Earth. But it's far more like someone's giant science project (maybe ourselves included). For the 'Intelligent Creator', we may have to look no further than a race (or maybe a number of races) of extremely advanced ET scientists.

It makes a lot of sense to me that we are some advanced ETs' giant science experiment. This would explain the seeming indifference to what's happening down here in terms of human suffering. If we are simply "ants" or some (perceived as) lower life form, perhaps it is impossible to feel compassion or sympathy for the wars, genocides, murders, rapes, every day suffering etc. that occur here -- and perhaps maybe some of these events are even artificially introduced/induced to test our responses to these traumatic events? And if this is the case, perhaps those higher ET scientists are also someone else's science experiment, and so on and so on....Intelligent design doesn't necessarily mean ethical design....at least from the subjects' perspective.

[Ewan]

For the 'Intelligent Creator', we may have to look no further than a race (or maybe a number of races) of extremely advanced ET scientists.

But were the extremely advanced ET scientists designed or did they happen by chance? ;)


BTW: If you've read Journey of Souls or any of those books by Michael Newton there are several mentions of souls playing/studying with energy and designing things/life forms. Kind of suggests we created ourselves, or collectively at least we created everything and ergo, collectively, we are the ONE.

[uzn]

No Way, some of you are saying we all brought this into being. I for one distance myself totally from having anything to do with creating Mosquitos and Ticks. ;)

[Satori]

All very good and thoughtful points of view. How many angels do dance on the head of a needle? I long ago concluded, rightly or wrongly (and we'll never know), that on this topic above all others, we are all dancing and prancing around in the realm of the unknown and the unknowable. And I am OK with that.

[Foxie Loxie]

Well, Starlight, you certainly started an interesting discussion! :highfive: And Bill, I really appreciate the info you shared. I just LOVE this all being "someone else's big science project"! I think that puts it all in perspective! :sun:

[Ernie Nemeth]

Intelligent design is a phrase containing two words connected together to modify each other. The first word, intelligent, denotes intent. Only a sentient self-reflecting consciousness can have intent. The design part infers action. Only an intelligence capable of affecting change can design, or "have designs". Intelligent design = intelligent creator depends on what "design" one is talking about.

Does the apparent intelligent design of the creatures on planet earth automatically prove the existence of an intelligent creator, yes.

Does that intelligent creator necessarily have to be the Great Spirit god of all the universes? - no

If there are little creator gods with local jurisdiction does that prove the existence of a Supreme Creator god? yes! imo

[gord]

To me, this is evidence of intelligent design.
35027
Leonhard Euler discovered it. Who created it?

[Bill Ryan]

To me, this is evidence of intelligent design.

http://i3.cpcache.com/product_zoom/711147253/beautiful_eulers_identity_tshirt.jpg

Leonhard Euler discovered it. Who created it?

Thank you! :star:

A very brilliant man, and one of the greatest ever mathematicians.

https://plus.maths.org/issue51/features/aziz/Euler.jpg

Some quotes and trivia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euler's_identity):

Stanford University mathematics professor Keith Devlin said, "like a Shakespearean sonnet that captures the very essence of love, or a painting that brings out the beauty of the human form that is far more than just skin deep, Euler's equation reaches down into the very depths of existence".

Paul Nahin, a professor emeritus at the University of New Hampshire, describes Euler's identity as being "of exquisite beauty".

Benjamin Peirce, a noted American 19th-century philosopher, mathematician, and professor at Harvard University, after proving Euler's identity during a lecture, stated that the identity "is absolutely paradoxical; we cannot understand it, and we don't know what it means, but we have proved it, and therefore we know it must be the truth".

A poll of readers conducted by The Mathematical Intelligencer in 1990 named Euler's identity as the "most beautiful theorem in mathematics".

In another poll of readers that was conducted by Physics World in 2004, Euler's identity tied with Maxwell's equations as the "greatest equation ever".

A study of the brains of sixteen mathematicians found that the "emotional brain" (specifically, the medial orbitofrontal cortex, which lights up for beautiful music, poetry, pictures, etc.) lit up more consistently for Euler's identity than for any other formula.

[Chester]

from time to time I bring this one back... - justoneopinion


“I (as us all) am (are)
simply the ‘All that Is’
that found a way to trick Itself
that It wasn't Itself
and simultaneously
hid Itself within Itself
such that It might (re)discover Itself
alive and individuated
within Its self-created Magick Kingdom.”


justonequestion -

How intelligent I was (we were) in doing this is...

debatable.

[Observer1964]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/b6/18/c4/b618c45f14e39e083981e22c11b3fda4.jpg


https://vimeo.com/63521643


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BoCZxRtMGI

[eaglespirit]

Here I am going to quote from a scientist who chose to withdraw from The System & went into hiding. I quote from The Blue Planet Project.

" ... "

I am no longer in possession of this book, but I do remember I had quite a time trying to buy it after I heard it mentioned on the History Channel!

If I have this right, the bulk of it may be here:


http://v-j-enterprises.com/krill4.html

The author is cited as 'O.H. Krill', but it was actually co-written by John Lear and John Grace ('Valdemar Valerian'). It was Grace (as Valerian) who complied the 'Matrix' series of books:


http://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Valdemar%20Valerian%20-%20Matrix%20I-IV

That's not to say that any of this is incorrect... Lear and Grace knew a lot of stuff.

Re Intelligent Design, I'm pretty convinced that this was indeed the driving force behind the extraordinary biosphere we have on Planet Earth. But it's far more like someone's giant science project (maybe ourselves included). For the 'Intelligent Creator', we may have to look no further than a race (or maybe a number of races) of extremely advanced ET scientists.

It makes a lot of sense to me that we are some advanced ETs' giant science experiment. This would explain the seeming indifference to what's happening down here in terms of human suffering. If we are simply "ants" or some (perceived as) lower life form, perhaps it is impossible to feel compassion or sympathy for the wars, genocides, murders, rapes, every day suffering etc. that occur here -- and perhaps maybe some of these events are even artificially introduced/induced to test our responses to these traumatic events? And if this is the case, perhaps those higher ET scientists are also someone else's science experiment, and so on and so on....Intelligent design doesn't necessarily mean ethical design....at least from the subjects' perspective.

...Intelligent design doesn't necessarily mean ethical design

imho, it is our job, by choice, to bring the 'ethical design' to fruition through our very thoughts and deeds now...brought to culmination by our personal life changing experiences that we simply have to share(each in our own way) and help the 'now' awareness all around us!

Thank You Starlight and All : )

[kirolak]

I wonder if we are programmed to recognize order & chaos, & to assume that Order is the Ethical & Chaos the "non-ethical" ?

[petra]

Let's take our genetic code for an example. By definition, codes don't naturally occur - they have to be intelligently designed.
The Intelligent Creator in that case could foreseeably be an advanced alien lifeform.
But what about the sun and stars? The planets? Did aliens have a part in that too? Somehow I doubt it.
We know there was a Big Bang - but did it come from nothing? Somehow I doubt that too.

[Foxie Loxie]

Just wondering if someone could explain to a Clueless Grandmother what Euler's equation IS.... what the symbols means? :confused: I have SO appreciated the patience & caring from those on the Forum.

[Foxie Loxie]

Still wondering! :confused:

[eaglespirit]

Just wondering if someone could explain to a Clueless Grandmother what Euler's equation IS.... what the symbols means? :confused: I have SO appreciated the patience & caring from those on the Forum.

Hi Foxie Loxie....Wishing You Well !

Euler's Mathematical Beauty Equation simply means to me...
Infinity Now!!!

Co-Creating Life to the Highest and Fullest...Humbly and Gratefully! : )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euler%27s_identity#Mathematical_beauty

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=35027&d=1487885827

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?96229-Does-Intelligent-Design-Intelligent-Creator&p=1136476&viewfull=1#post1136476

[Omni]

I believe in intelligent design by extraterrestrials, not an omnipotent divine creator. It is my view that belief in God is a thing that primitive races do in the cosmic scheme of things. A classic cosmicly engineered strategic psyop to get people to rely on a higher power for everything. Lets Pray instead of taking action. Sounds like the new age instead it's lets meditate or send energy remotely instead of taking real action.

I have always been a heretic. Ever since I found out I was an atheist, I try to not take offense to people's ignorant comments about atheism. I guess it's justifiable because the moronic demographic of atheists are the focus. I've learned that atheism leads to persecution and judgmental people attacking you. I guess it is the same as all other belief systems, but i still don't like it. It's almost as if atheism is a bad word, and something you just don't mention to people unless you are feeling ballsy...

[Foxie Loxie]

Thanks, eaglespirit & Omnisense for responding. I do not have a mathematical mind so I had no clue what you all were talking about! :blushing: That we are Co-Creators, I can understand. I have often thought that it matters not what any of us BELIEVE; what matters is what IS....but none of us really know that either, correct?! :sherlock:

[Karma Ninja]

IF we stop and think about what might be the answer to the question "what is the meaning of everything?" we can twist and turn our minds around a lot of concepts. Intelligent design pops up in so many different theories. Mathematical theories, Physics theories, Religious theories and likely many others.

If we are more honest with ourselves, we will see that everything we know, whether it be words and languages or beliefs and faiths. Whether it be educated facts or wild theories. Whether we aspire or consider ourselves to be anything at all. Doctors or artists. Engineers or construction workers. Plumbers or cooks. It doesn't matter what it is we consider... We are considering it through someone else's rules, someone else's roles, someone else's labels, someone else's thoughts. We are all more clearly supporting characters in someone else's reality than we are co-creators of our own realities. This is the great fraud of the system. We are fooled into believing we possess types of freedoms when we really only ever have choices that are predefined by someone else. That is slavery and not freedom. It is likely that this is all by design.

We are most likely occupying someone else's intelligent design space. We may have the ability to break free and become co-creators of our own reality BUT we may be only bit players with no real say in the outcome of major shifts in our global well-being. It's mind blowing to consider it either way.

:ph34r:

[Foxie Loxie]

Very well put, Karma Ninja! For me, at my age, it blows my mind to think that my entire life has been "wasted" within someone else's playing field! :facepalm: I think that is what people like David Icke are trying to do....wake us up to what is REALLY going on & what we have been a part of. Who knew we are actually multidimensional beings capable of "unplugging" from the control system, to a certain extent?!

[Bill Ryan]

To me, this is evidence of intelligent design.

http://i3.cpcache.com/product_zoom/711147253/beautiful_eulers_identity_tshirt.jpg

Leonhard Euler discovered it. Who created it?

I came across this just now, and had to post it. :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dhHrg-KbJ0

[Pam]

Here I am going to quote from a scientist who chose to withdraw from The System & went into hiding. I quote from The Blue Planet Project.

"THE SOURCE has to be a form of intelligent energy operating at the highest possible point of the Frequency Spectrum. If such an energy exists at all, it might permeate the Universe & maintain equal control of each component part. Because of its very high frequency, so high that the energy particles are virtually standing still, the Source has no need to replenish itself in any way that would be acceptable to our environmental sciences. It could actually create & destroy matter by manipulating the lower energies. It would be timeless, because it exists beyond all time fields. It would be infinite because it is not confined by Three-Dimensional Space.

Perhaps if we were in a pure energy state, each particle of energy would itself serve as a synapse, & information could be stored by a slight alteration in frequency....no complex circuitry would be required, & no physical body would be necessary either. The energy patterns would not need material form, it instead would permeate the entire Universe. ...impulse of low energy passing through your brain. If it were so desired, it would control those pulses & thus control your thoughts."

I am no longer in possession of this book, but I do remember I had quite a time trying to buy it after I heard it mentioned on the History Channel! ;)


This post by dear Foxie Loxie contains what may be the most accurate description of the power and source of creation that I have ever heard.

Therefore, bumpety bump.

[Carmody]

I wonder if we are programmed to recognize order & chaos, & to assume that Order is the Ethical & Chaos the "non-ethical" ?

Chaos is dead and unliving.
Order is also dead and unlinving.

Life is the thing that is stretched between them.

Neither book end supports life or growth, or change, or difference, or differential.

All those things require order and chaos to be the bookends. Life can only exist as a form of contrast, a differential, discernment itself....and contrast can only exist between order and chaos.

One might even say that perfect order had a smashing, destructive form of chaos introduced into it, or that order was disrupted and could decay into chaos. Whatever the case, both order and chaos are required for life to exist.

We can strive for one or the other, yes, we can strive toward order if we perceive that we have come from chaos. but I'm not sure that moving from chaos to order is anything but a motion, the motion in the range of life, this all being the life and reality itself.

All of existence is built on the concept and 'reality' of differential, differential that can only come into being via the existence of the two bookends--in the same space. Perfect order would allow for none of that. Perfect chaos would allow for none of that. Therefore...

One can even say that the idea of order, to strive, is tied to the origins of simple organisms and their self replication. Not exactly god, or whatnot, but wholly in the depth and reach of it, the idea of the bones themselves, and in every living thing on this earth.

If we encounter something other than DNA, then we may see what we might think of, in the depth of us to be - 'unholy.' A fear so deep and permeating that it would be indescribable and previously unknown.

[PurpleLama]

http://www.kbuxton.com/discordia/hodgepod.gif

[Bill Ryan]

:bump: :bump: :bump:

[Anka]

We cannot be scattered among all theories, we can't even coagulate them in a balanced, efficient way :flower:
Between the Miler-Urey experiment and unified field theory and all research or religions, we still count something in a game of hide and seek whose rules we don't really know.

Between "the river is for swimming and the mountain for climbing", we still have the creation at hand, but even this is maybe, just a game, it must always be a bigger game, in the end maybe it doesn't matter who makes the rules of the game, but in the tendency of what they are made of,
if that really matters, but I don't think so.

I am one of the preschoolers in this world, through our creative nature, we have the curiosity and instinct to tremble to know what is happening around us.
Unfortunately, nothing can reconcile us with our findings, although it is a relatively subjectively pleasant activity, the action really offers flexibility, the search can be acquired, but the term evolution does not always interpret a correct evaluation.
The effect can be as deceptive as it is true in equal proportions in that we look for tap water while we are drinking it, not knowing why we are thirsty or why we should drink it, even though we already have it discovered.

A spontaneous project of graphic projective imagination can be the expression of a correct projection of the realities dissipated loyally by a talent through which we substitute a kind of pictographic language, if we are maybe just a kind of test going through a seemingly incoherent path.
Children, lacking the appropriate language to express their perceptions, emotions, desires and needs, they draw in the language of drawing through lines and colors the permanent subjective meaning of the aspect of life, being basically just a drawing.

For me, intelligence without any reference as an opportunity, but encompassing all possibilities means everything I will never be able to comprehend, and this is a pleasant sign that I will have enough time to be able to count infinity,
it is an endless song in which I can interact with the very particles of genesis (as a totally wrong expression used in the absence of other words) but something comprising an intrinsic static relational dynamic completely externalized in essence of something else I do not know by telling life as a whole.
It is quite difficult to define even simple things from the position we are in, even if the cells work orderly for us. That is why transformation always hurts and counts the radical of each meaning in the billionth option to the totally unpredictable possible response power.

As terms used in extra context, we always revolve around an unknown discipline (technologically speaking containing endlessly unlimited extremes of knowledge we do not have) and the philosophy of reality always rolls the dice between metaphor and study, knowledge can be an indispensable tool but maybe we should throw the coin in the air betting on nothing.

Personally, I don't feel patronized by anything, but I can be sorely mistaken, also for fun and seriousness at the same time, I work with intuition, creation, metaphor as identity not as simulation, as vocation, I proclaim the specific in totally natural differences between incubation, preparation and inspiration, however
individual achievements are just experiences in relation and comparison with the product of an intelligence of a major reference ever.

We can be quite spiritual and refreshed as concept options, we can be flexible, fluent, original, we can think divergent, convergent, associated, we can have abilities in persevering or intrinsic will, we can require, reborn, create, subordinate any discipline, but ,
between expressiveness, inventiveness, productivity, innovation and the emergence of genius, at any level, we will always be just a kind of valuable reproduction (maybe) similar to our creative process (maybe), in the specified reference point, possibly non-existent but totally present.

I'm here to throw the ball blank, just apparently keeping the rules of a possible game, maybe someday I'll catch the ball on the other side.:blushing:
The code of genesis along the way becomes disproportionate to our way of using it, it might be worth mentioning that a "good, quiet and happy life" can shape it beyond its value, but perhaps also scientifically, spiritually or else debatable, everything is circumstantial.

For the defense, health, rehabilitation of humanity in any universal profile, I am here to offer a genuine hug..:bearhug:

Love,
Anca

[Merkaba360]

It's probably misleading to think of a 'creator' if energy is neither created or destroyed, just a transformation that flows between chaos and order as carmody points out. So, perhaps ultimately nothing is ever created, but i guess relatively, our limited perspective manifests new forms/perceptions in our field of experience which are created new in our experience , but not created in the ALL. If you are able to see space/time as a fractal, manifestation is something like exerting your force of will that shifts the fractal like a fluid that results in changes within your reality on whichever layer, physical being the hardest layer to change.

If you keep in mind that this is a holographic fractal, then we can apply the principle of correspondence (The Kybalion)- as above, so below; as below, so above. So, we can observe our own intelligent design in this world using will/intent. Will is intent in action or applied. First you intend to build/create something and then proceed to act on it with will. So, the fact that there is intelligent creation in our experience means there is corresponding intelligent creations/manifestations on all levels of existence throughout the cascading/repeating fractal. However, we could use the principle of gender for example. Gender exists on all levels for the same reason. But it is only similar to the other levels and plays out a bit different depending on the realm. So, I guess in the highest abstract realms, gender would be much more abstract and not so clear cut as it is with these more clear cut compartmentalized bodies.

Since our experience of gender and intelligent designing/creating is within this gross illusory realm, I suppose going to a higher realm with less illusion should make our perception on these matters shift. At the highest level, experience might not be distinct enough to really define these concepts. Perhaps, the intent of having this illusory world diametrically opposed to those fuzzy indistinct realms of wholeness, is to create (there's that word again :) a realm that makes these concepts of intelligent design and creators more clear and knowable. In other words, the source is hanging out in the fog of chaos.

Not sure if that makes much sense as im trying to translate some unclear things inside my mind lol. The damn paradox is a real pain in the neck.

[petra]

....When people mention an intelligent creator they immediately think of one entity. It could very well be all of us.

Us... the trees... maybe even the rocks too. Rocks are a bit of a stretch, but I don't think it as far-fetched as I once did!
Here is a link (https://philosophynow.org/issues/117/The_Private_Lives_Of_Rocks) to an article about awareness titled "The Private Lives of Rocks"



Do rocks have minds? A minority of modern philosophers are prepared (but only, perhaps, after some prodding) to admit they believe the answer is ‘yes’ – or at least, ‘sort of’.

[East Sun]

I have no idea what this plant is - does anyone know? One comment (so far) just says its real. Looks like its dispersing seeds through a trumpet. Interesting plant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq5VJRclD1I

Could it be that other world beings are planting those not found on Earth until now.
Plants and insects and maybe animals were created by aliens perhaps.

It's a possibility.

[Pam]

I have no idea what this plant is - does anyone know? One comment (so far) just says its real. Looks like its dispersing seeds through a trumpet. Interesting plant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq5VJRclD1I

Could it be that other world beings are planting those not found on Earth until now.
Plants and insects and maybe animals were created by aliens perhaps.

It's a possibility.

They say in the comments that it is made by a graphic artist. I think it is wonderful whether it is the product of someone's imagination or a strange anomaly of nature. I love everything about it, the colors, the shapes and the sounds. It reminds me of those little "puff ball mushrooms" which expel their spores when squeezed. Their colonies are called "fairie rings"!!!!

Real or imaginationed it is a very interesting creature!!! As we progress into the new era, our abilities to create will become more spontaneous, we could have a reality with all these wonderful kind of life forms.

[Ankle Biter]

....When people mention an intelligent creator they immediately think of one entity. It could very well be all of us.

Us... the trees... maybe even the rocks too. Rocks are a bit of a stretch, but I don't think it as far-fetched as I once did!
Here is a link (https://philosophynow.org/issues/117/The_Private_Lives_Of_Rocks) to an article about awareness titled "The Private Lives of Rocks"



Do rocks have minds? A minority of modern philosophers are prepared (but only, perhaps, after some prodding) to admit they believe the answer is ‘yes’ – or at least, ‘sort of’.


Interesting article and I somewhat agree with the idea.. And I'm happy to hear that someone called Petra is open to the idea as well :lol:

[Bill Ryan]

Bumping this very interesting thread with this, copied over from Animals are Magical (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?106567-Animals-are-Magical).

(Personal statement: :) In my view, Intelligent Design is obvious. Who the designer is or was, I do not know.)





Leaf mimicry is an especially clever form of camouflage. For some animals, looking like a leaf serves as protection from hungry predators. For others, it is a useful way to wait in plain sight for unwitting prey. The adaptation is most common among insects but can also be found in reptiles, amphibians, and even fish!


https://i.imgur.com/JptKjRs.mp4





Leaf butterfly lives in the tropical zones of Asia and Africa. When danger is detected, the butterfly snaps its wings and instantly becomes like a dry leaf.


https://i.imgur.com/ngHNmnO.mp4

[rgray222]

Scientists are trying to make a case that the Intelligent Design theory came into being in the early 1990s but nothing could be further from the truth. Ever since man looked at the stars he/she has theorized that there must be a Creator responsible for everything in their view including other men/women. intelligent Design and Creationism are essentially the same things, evolution was a radical and flawed theory and very late to the party. Evolution as we know is just another stage in the Intelligent Design process. If you just ponder the size, scope, and energy of the cosmos conclusions about creationism/intelligent design can not be denied. If you just start reading about a full eclipse (lunar or solar) you must conclude that this could not possibly be a happenstance accident. If you have any doubts just peruse the the animals are magical thread (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?106567-Animals-are-Magical) (as Bill has suggested)

I have been convinced at an early age that every answer we need about life resides in each of us. Your own thoughts over a period of time should be enough to satisfy even the most skeptical. While it is fun to chase outside validation it is much more satisfying to reach your own conclusion.

[Harmony]

Nature is amazing. The following video is about a type of camouflage as well.
0wtLrlIKvJE


0b4tmbE5jj4

[Bill Ryan]

The owl moth and the owl butterfly

Moth:

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/101439890_3845996988764419_2784585803691121051_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=S0YvbEYSxMwAX-9dG1J&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=00_AfBlKx4lRMM4__ATCg8n8Z4CIwIBU_He_in7XS57Fxii8w&oe=6395299A

Butterfly:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/66/Owl_moth_%28Automeris_belti_belti%29.jpg/800px-Owl_moth_%28Automeris_belti_belti%29.jpg?20211002172215~~~

There's absolutely NO WAY something like that could ever have evolved through Darwinian Natural Selection. Literally, not a chance. :)

[Matthew]

Darwinian Natural Selection is at play, but is it the whole story? Doesn't necessarily mean Darwin wasn't onto something. At least Darwin was trying to understand what we can see... a noble cause. And he was a non conformist so I like the chap. I have a different opinion to Darwin about God and I see God in everything, especially fruit trees. As far as I'm concerned the fruit tree could abide in God, pray in it's own tree like way, and be blessed by God and so evolves into a force for life providing delicious fruit etc. I'm not trying to convince anyone, and I'm entitled to my belief. Darwin sort of went as far as we can with observations, trying to watch evolution happening. Crazy stuff, I'm not sure how anyone can be anything other than mystified? But our productive culture doesn't hold onto mysteries very well, everything must be certain.

[Pam]

Darwinian Natural Selection is at play, but is it the whole story? Doesn't necessarily mean Darwin wasn't onto something. At least Darwins work except for his sketches those were great, was trying to understand what we can see... a noble cause. And he was a non conformist so I like the chap. I have a different opinion to Darwin about God and I see God in everything, especially fruit trees. As far as I'm concerned the fruit tree could abide in God, pray in it's own tree like way, and be blessed by God and so evolves into a force for life providing delicious fruit etc. I'm not trying to convince anyone, and I'm entitled to my belief. Darwin sort of went as far as we can with observations, trying to watch evolution happening. Crazy stuff, I'm not sure how anyone can be anything other than mystified? But our productive culture doesn't hold onto mysteries very well, everything must be certain.

You are one of my very favorite people on this forum and I dearly value your opinion, but I can't find any redeeming qualities about Darwin. I don't know, he may have been very sincere and a nice guy but even as a little kid natural selection just doesn't work. What I do see is a magnificent creation and creatures, and flora with an incredible ability to adapt a huge amount.

I spent many years living in more urban settings where nature is controlled and sanitized and then moved to a rural setting where nature was, uncensored, non-sanitized nature and I have seen natures incredible ability to adapt to changes and many times to do it in one generation. It is mind boggling. I believe adaption is highly underrated.

I see intelligent design all around me that still brings me to my knees in a state of awe at the expression of the whole chain of life. Funny, I remember being told when I was a little kid that my tonsils could be removed because they don't serve any purpose, they are remnants of evolution, the same with the appendix. How about "junk" DNA. There may have been dramatic changes but I don't believe if they were that is was through natural selection.

Here is where I question Darwin's theory. Why are most humans created so they could not survive in their environment,(I realize there are very mild climates and this would not be true everywhere) just as they are. You could say we adapted by increasing our intellect but that still doesn't make sense. You see dramatic changes that animals have to their coats for example throughout the seasons. In the winter in cold climates their coats get thicker and there are probably so many adaptions I don't know about. They don't have to make a coat and get shoes or else they freeze. ( I realize there are exceptions) and particularly aberrations in weather could cause deaths.

Wouldn't we have naturally selected into a species that could live without having to make clothes and improves intellect? It doesn't fit with the way the rest of the life cycles are on the planet that I have observed for a long time now.

It makes no sense that we would evolve into creatures that are in many cases unprepared to deal with the natural world. We don't fit in properly with the rest of the planet in my assessment. We are a cancer to the cycle of life , we take more than we need and destroy even to our own detriment.Apparently many of us are willing to endanger our own offspring for non survival reasons (not everyone once again).That does not fit in with the rest of the world, at least not to my knowledge. It the species with the most desirable characteristics for survival are the ones that carry on, there's something amiss here. Because humanity is becoming wimpier (certainly not everywhere) and less able to adapt to the natural world, not the other way around.

I see the harmony and life cycles of animals and plants, the give and take and humans don't fit into that cyclic design. It tells me there is something up, but I don't think it is natural selection. I am just coming to understand the level and depth of the lies we have come to accept as fact, as our history. I haven't even skimmed the top, yet. I used to always talk about us coming to the grand finale of some big inversion event. I didn't see we our already in it. Have always been in it. I just couldn't deal with the level of evil that is out there. Our experience is the inversion. It doesn't mean we are all evil ,,, but our mettle is definitely being tested.

On the other hand , I think adaption is not given enough credit. Adaption is awesome and it can be quick when it needs to.

Darwin could have been a wonderful and nice guy but all of us have been programmed to varied degrees.Everything good here is weaponized and manipulated for purposes of control. Darwins whole "theory" of evolution, which indicates that he didn't state it was a fact reminds me of how they took one of the CEOs of big pharma, I think it was Moderna stating that they "hope" their injection prevents transmission was turned into a vicious hate campaign and a belief that we are saving others by poisoning ourselves....

Anyway, I love good old fashioned debate so I am throwing my two cents. At this point in my life I just feel dumber and dumber.. I am not so sure about being right about anything..... for all I know a neanderthal could walk down the street in 5 minutes and I wouldn't blink an eye...and I refuse to ever quit believing in Sasquatch.

I adore you Matthew, your contributions are deeply valued.

These are my opinions, I am in no way criticizing you . You are a very bright man and I feel I can debate a bit and not have you take it personally. How could I? You have what I feel is one of the most important and timely threads on the forum?

With great respect,
Pam

Sometimes I just love to write. I am grateful to have a place to do so. I also welcome any challenges. One thing I know for sure is that I know nothing for sure:heart2:

[Matthew]

Wow there's a lot to digest here, thank you for the kind words.



blah blah

...

I see intelligent design all around me that still brings me to my knees in a state of awe at the expression of the whole chain of life. Funny, I remember being told when I was a little kid that my tonsils could be removed because they don't serve any purpose, they are remnants of evolution, the same with the appendix. How about "junk" DNA. There may have been dramatic changes but I don't believe if they were that is was through natural selection.


Yeah the tonsil thing is weird. Mine were removed and I didn't even get ice cream, no I was given crisps to 'scrape the clots off'. I expect I had my tonsils for a reason, the NHS really liked to remove them. They're making it up as they go a long ;) "junk" DNA yes you have a point. "Junk" is one of our cultural words to use instead of the word "mystery"... something we don't understand.



Here is where I question Darwin's theory. Why are most humans created so they could not survive in their environment,(I realize there are very mild climates and this would not be true everywhere) just as they are. You could say we adapted by increasing our intellect but that still doesn't make sense. You see dramatic changes that animals have to their coats for example throughout the seasons. In the winter in cold climates their coats get thicker and there are probably so many adaptions I don't know about. They don't have to make a coat and get shoes or else they freeze. ( I realize there are exceptions) and particularly aberrations in weather could cause deaths.

Wouldn't we have naturally selected into a species that could live without having to make clothes and improves intellect? It doesn't fit with the way the rest of the life cycles are on the planet that I have observed for a long time now.

It makes no sense that we would evolve into creatures that are in many cases unprepared to deal with the natural world. We don't fit in properly with the rest of the planet in my assessment. We are a cancer to the cycle of life , we take more than we need and destroy even to our own detriment.Apparently many of us are willing to endanger our own offspring for non survival reasons (not everyone once again).That does not fit in with the rest of the world, at least not to my knowledge. It the species with the most desirable characteristics for survival are the ones that carry on, there's something amiss here. Because humanity is becoming wimpier (certainly not everywhere) and less able to adapt to the natural world, not the other way around.


We don't even seem to fit on this planet... blue eyes suck. And we have gone from the macho 1970's to gentrified urban values post-2000; everyone has soft hands. Everyone I know does, ok not all, but most do. Nerds. My hands are the same as the nerds. I'm a nerd. I'm retro learning from a suburban life back to old ways and traditions. It's slow going. My high tech life is too useful atm. But we are strange against other nature around us,... the nurturing time a human young needs is ridiculously long. The intrinsic behaviour of a squirrel or a bird... yes we don't have that. We have an affinity with square-edged engineering, discovering things, and then making a weapon out of them. We are REALLY good at this :thumbsup: And following leaders with obedience, we're really rather jolly good at that. A+ score, very well done humanity :clapping:



I see the harmony and life cycles of animals and plants, the give and take and humans don't fit into that cyclic design. It tells me there is something up, but I don't think it is natural selection. I am just coming to understand the level and depth of the lies we have come to accept as fact, as our history. I haven't even skimmed the top, yet. I used to always talk about us coming to the grand finale of some big inversion event. I didn't see we our already in it. Have always been in it. I just couldn't deal with the level of evil that is out there. Our experience is the inversion. It doesn't mean we are all evil ,,, but our mettle is definitely being tested.

On the other hand , I think adaption is not given enough credit. Adaption is awesome and it can be quick when it needs to.


Some big inversion event is a frightening idea, it's crossed my mind. Suddenly there are desperate people with families to feed, and no experience or even pre-thought to the existential upset... a total desperate surprise. I'm sure we're utterly vulnerable to that. I'm sure there would be adaption like you say, but the future is unknown, it's really annoying.



Darwin could have been a wonderful and nice guy but all of us have been programmed to varied degrees.Everything good here is weaponized and manipulated for purposes of control. Darwins whole "theory" of evolution, which indicates that he didn't state it was a fact reminds me of how they took one of the CEOs of big pharma, I think it was Moderna stating that they "hope" their injection prevents transmission was turned into a vicious hate campaign and a belief that we are saving others by poisoning ourselves....

...


Well, I suppose he was the figure head in an assault against some social/political battle, and he is a cherished scientist ...which goes against him now you point that out. I liked that he tried to measure what he could, as much as a man or woman could do, ...but he is far too popular to be trusted using Lloyd Pie logic.

I like nature, I'm drawn to it, to get closer to the soil. Nature is my teacher and I love it. Except the cat that peed on my chimenea, I chased that little bastard off.

[Pam]

Wow there's a lot to digest here, thank you for the kind words.



blah blah

...

I see intelligent design all around me that still brings me to my knees in a state of awe at the expression of the whole chain of life. Funny, I remember being told when I was a little kid that my tonsils could be removed because they don't serve any purpose, they are remnants of evolution, the same with the appendix. How about "junk" DNA. There may have been dramatic changes but I don't believe if they were that is was through natural selection.


Yeah the tonsil thing is weird. Mine were removed and I didn't even get ice cream, no I was given crisps to 'scrape the clots off'. I expect I had my tonsils for a reason, the NHS really liked to remove them. They're making it up as they go a long ;) "junk" DNA yes you have a point. "Junk" is one of our cultural words to use instead of the word "mystery"... something we don't understand.



Here is where I question Darwin's theory. Why are most humans created so they could not survive in their environment,(I realize there are very mild climates and this would not be true everywhere) just as they are. You could say we adapted by increasing our intellect but that still doesn't make sense. You see dramatic changes that animals have to their coats for example throughout the seasons. In the winter in cold climates their coats get thicker and there are probably so many adaptions I don't know about. They don't have to make a coat and get shoes or else they freeze. ( I realize there are exceptions) and particularly aberrations in weather could cause deaths.

Wouldn't we have naturally selected into a species that could live without having to make clothes and improves intellect? It doesn't fit with the way the rest of the life cycles are on the planet that I have observed for a long time now.

It makes no sense that we would evolve into creatures that are in many cases unprepared to deal with the natural world. We don't fit in properly with the rest of the planet in my assessment. We are a cancer to the cycle of life , we take more than we need and destroy even to our own detriment.Apparently many of us are willing to endanger our own offspring for non survival reasons (not everyone once again).That does not fit in with the rest of the world, at least not to my knowledge. It the species with the most desirable characteristics for survival are the ones that carry on, there's something amiss here. Because humanity is becoming wimpier (certainly not everywhere) and less able to adapt to the natural world, not the other way around.


We don't even seem to fit on this planet... blue eyes suck. And we have gone from the macho 1970's to gentrified urban values post-2000; everyone has soft hands. Everyone I know does, ok not all, but most do. Nerds. My hands are the same as the nerds. I'm a nerd. I'm retro learning from a suburban life back to old ways and traditions. It's slow going. My high tech life is too useful atm. But we are strange against other nature around us,... the nurturing time a human young needs is ridiculously long. The intrinsic behaviour of a squirrel or a bird... yes we don't have that. We have an affinity with square-edged engineering, discovering things, and then making a weapon out of them. We are REALLY good at this :thumbsup: And following leaders with obedience, we're really rather jolly good at that. A+ score, very well done humanity :clapping:



I see the harmony and life cycles of animals and plants, the give and take and humans don't fit into that cyclic design. It tells me there is something up, but I don't think it is natural selection. I am just coming to understand the level and depth of the lies we have come to accept as fact, as our history. I haven't even skimmed the top, yet. I used to always talk about us coming to the grand finale of some big inversion event. I didn't see we our already in it. Have always been in it. I just couldn't deal with the level of evil that is out there. Our experience is the inversion. It doesn't mean we are all evil ,,, but our mettle is definitely being tested.

On the other hand , I think adaption is not given enough credit. Adaption is awesome and it can be quick when it needs to.


Some big inversion event is a frightening idea, it's crossed my mind. Suddenly there are desperate people with families to feed, and no experience or even pre-thought to the existential upset... a total desperate surprise. I'm sure we're utterly vulnerable to that. I'm sure there would be adaption like you say, but the future is unknown, it's really annoying.



Darwin could have been a wonderful and nice guy but all of us have been programmed to varied degrees.Everything good here is weaponized and manipulated for purposes of control. Darwins whole "theory" of evolution, which indicates that he didn't state it was a fact reminds me of how they took one of the CEOs of big pharma, I think it was Moderna stating that they "hope" their injection prevents transmission was turned into a vicious hate campaign and a belief that we are saving others by poisoning ourselves....

...


Well, I suppose he was the figure head in an assault against some social/political battle, and he is a cherished scientist ...which goes against him now you point that out. I liked that he tried to measure what he could, as much as a man or woman could do, ...but he is far too popular to be trusted using Lloyd Pie logic.

I like nature, I'm drawn to it, to get closer to the soil. Nature is my teacher and I love it. Except the cat that peed on my chimenea, I chased that little bastard off.

I really appreciated that you responded to all my questions that have not been satisfied since I was a kid. It's simple stuff. I remember asking my mom why we have baby toes. Why was this one toe so much more little than the other toes. She told me that we had come from ape like creatures and most likely the little toe would diminish with natural selection. I remember climbing into a tree, staying there for a long time. I was sure I feel it if any of man ancestors had been apes or monkeys! I never could feel the connection.... and I wonder my my mom used to call me the "odd ball kid". Guess she was right..


Still can't come to terms with seeing one side of the moon, although they have some pretty impressive explanations on You Tube.....anyway, I'm glad your here Matthew!!!!

[Matthew]

...
Still can't come to terms with seeing one side of the moon, although they have some pretty impressive explanations on You Tube....

There is plenty I haven't even thought about, and lots of rabbit holes I didn't even know existed. I distrust popular culture easily though, and always still now find myself looking at old things in a new way, with that ensuing sinking feeling; makes me wonder if I am a masochist. But I'm not, the world is just this way. I don't trust certainty and a side-effect of that is that I keep an open mind if nothing else :Angel:

[Pam]

...
Still can't come to terms with seeing one side of the moon, although they have some pretty impressive explanations on You Tube....

There is plenty I haven't even thought about, and lots of rabbit holes I didn't even know existed. I distrust popular culture easily though, and always still now find myself looking at old things in a new way, with that ensuing sinking feeling; makes me wonder if I am a masochist. But I'm not, the world is just this way. I don't trust certainty and a side-effect of that is that I keep an open mind if nothing else :Angel:

Don't you agree that once we have come to understand the level of programming and how it permeates everything, thanks in great part to your thread, we have to go back if we are honest with ourselves and reexamine many of the things I know I was happy to believe the "experts"and "authorities" had figured out. were mostly nothing but programming. I'm sure there was and is truth and accuracy thrown in there but the point is once you see the level of deception you realize you don't really have the luxury of just accepting what you read or see. There is a heavy price to pay for that though. That false sense of security, at least any I thought I had is permanently gone and that can be very, very hard.

[samildamach]

Recent thinking on tonsils has changed.
There now considered a vital part of the immune system as a first defence in blocking germs entering the body threw nose and throat.they also contain large amounts of white blood cells .
Makes me think is junk dna really junk or is are understanding of it's nature not Good enough?

[lunaflare]

The intricacies and symmetrical beauty of crop circles blow my mind.

[Ewan]

Scientists Speak Out About Evidence of Intelligent Design in Nature - 2m 50s

cEps6lzWUKk

[Bill Ryan]

Bumping this marvelous thread with the natural marvel shared by RunningDeer today. (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?30405-Here-and-Now...What-s-Happening&p=1623922&viewfull=1#post1623922)


Architectural Wonder

The weaver bird builds a false, second door to its nest to protect its eggs from snakes.

https://i.imgur.com/riExn6q.jpg

[HiddenWindow]

It seems that humans will always be divided on the issue of intelligent design. However, I wonder what the other animals think? Have you ever noticed that animals don't end their own lives like humans do? They can be in mortal agony and crushing despair, yet they carry on until the end. Now, some will say this is because animals are stupid, or some will argue that animals are, "more machine than mind". However this provokes one of the main questions of life: Why is there any life at all?

Imagine you were one of the first multicellular organism to crawl from the primordial soup. You go from non-existence to an existence of cold, fear, and pain. Why would such an organism choose to live and reproduce when life is so undesirable? Moreover, why would billions of fellow organisms chose the exact same mode of existence? In my opinion there are two viable options:

Option one: No mater how terrible existence is, it is preferable to the veil that lies beyond or before death ( a mightily disturbing thought)

Option two: Non nobis solum ( not for ourselves alone). There is something that drives life outside of basic reason or experience.

[Bill Ryan]

Option two: Non nobis solum ( not for ourselves alone). There is something that drives life outside of basic reason or experience.Yep, you got it. :)

[Bill Ryan]

Bumping this thread with a remarkable short video posted by grapevine on the Magical Animals thread.

(https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?106567-Animals-are-Magical&p=1667774&viewfull=1#post1667774)~~~

EkDYPDEqP5U

[rgray222]

For atheism to work, you have to believe in two lies. Firstly, the idea of atheism depends on believing that the Big Bang is a common misconception. Secondly, Atheism is simply the lack of belief in deities. These two lies set the basis for atheism. If you have no desire for a deeper explanation of how or why the universe was created, then atheism works fine.

For many, exploring the joy and magnificence of the universe and for others, probing the pain and suffering, can deliver proof of intelligent design. The mere fact that you are reading this post, taking your next breath and contemplating existence is astonishing.


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/b6/18/c4/b618c45f14e39e083981e22c11b3fda4.jpg

[Ernie Nemeth]

The Big Bang, as billed, is a common misconception. Proved recently by the James Webb Satellite and massive early galaxies that should not be there.

The Big Bang Theory also assumes there was a time when matter travelled faster than the speed of light. Called the inflationary period.

Assumptions kill us every time.

[Bill Ryan]

Copying this post by Eva2 on the Animals are Magical thread. (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?106567-Animals-are-Magical&p=1669980&viewfull=1#post1669980) :heart:

(Darwinian natural selection here? Not a chance. Lamarkian evolution? Conceivably, at least in part. Some kind of 'intelligence' involved? Certainly.)

~~~

'The woodpecker’s tongue is one of nature’s most astonishing adaptations. Far longer than its beak, the tongue extends back into the skull, wrapping around it—sometimes even looping over the top and around the eye socket. This isn't just to catch insects buried deep within tree bark; it's also a vital piece of shock-absorbing anatomy. As the bird slams its beak into wood at speeds of up to 20 times per second, the tongue’s unique path acts like a biological seatbelt, distributing impact forces and helping to protect the brain from trauma. This remarkable design, supported by a specialized structure called the hyoid apparatus, allows the woodpecker to perform its relentless pecking without suffering concussions—a feat no human could match unprotected.'

https://scontent.fcxh3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/500326918_1118074957024530_6607445782155940715_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=aa7b47&_nc_ohc=ctUak_5GZ84Q7kNvwGA11c-&_nc_oc=AdnBLi-Kj0GGA6wF2CDubr-Cf7KtScHybi2P0a_dSTIludPEn9iUh-7fkLsUwP7rn8S1Ah-W7cZrGBYc9-9fvwm9&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fcxh3-1.fna&_nc_gid=q7FPCmnydHprtWBtk9I0EQ&oh=00_AfKukY7xHvRz7rSxMkIsuC7PcRXtaSf7qexXXqHPDL7oSQ&oe=683C257F

[Bill Ryan]

Another example, I'd strongly argue, of a 'self-defense' survival mechanism that could not have evolved through 'natural selection'.

Copying this post by rgray222 on the Animals are Magical thread:

(https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?106567-Animals-are-Magical&p=1692607&viewfull=1#post1692607)~~~

The Velvet Worm (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onychophora) or (Onychophora) has super powers.

https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aoyGEb3_460svav1.mp4

[rgray222]

https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aqyOKyj_460svav1.mp4

[Bill Ryan]

Copying this post by rgray222 on the Animals re Magical thread: (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?106567-Animals-are-Magical&p=1696977&viewfull=1#post1696977)

~~~

https://avalonlibrary.net/Bill/mouse_in_beehive.jpg

[grapevine]

The Great Hornbill

The female seals herself into the nest while sitting on her eggs and the family relies on the male to bring food until the fledglings' maiden flight
up5R8fHg4bo

For perspective . . . these are very large birds
qFPh5rpZIyo

Heres a female breaking free from the nest all on her own
9WMDqynBTnI

[Ewan]

The thynnine male wasp is the sole pollinator of.... Drakaea livida below.

https://static.inaturalist.org/photos/95363792/medium.jpeg

Now here is the female thynnine wasp, pictured next to her mimic.

https://toplist.info/images/800px/drakaea-glyptodon-868852.jpg

The female cannot fly, she climbs to the top of stalks to be accessible to passing males who would be attracted by the pheromones she releases. The problem is the nearby flower releases very similar pheromones confusing her potential lovers.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/41/18/c4/4118c42997f03d1d4d352a4e50394829.jpg

The flower flips over and pushes the back of the wasp onto the stamen where the pollen is deposited.

--------

6yLnKfhmUzg