M.O.A.B. used in Afghanistan by the US

[Bob]

a Mother of All Bombs has been dropped in Afghanistan by the US.

The bomb is the largest conventional bomb, second only to a small nuke device.

The mushroom cloud resultant is very intimidating, and looks like a "mushroom cloud".

The target was called an I.S.I.S. target

reference: http://www.businessinsider.com/us-moab-mother-of-all-bombs-isis-afghanistan-2017-4


Four US officials with direct knowledge of the mission said the US had dropped the GBU-43/B Massive Ordnance Air Blast Bomb, aka the "Mother of All Bombs" or "MOAB," over the Achin district of Afghanistan's Nangarhar province, which borders northwest Pakistan.

The MOAB, which was developed during the Iraq war, is the US's largest non-nuclear bomb and had not been used in combat until now.

It weighs 21,000 pounds and was dropped from a C-130 aircraft a little after 7 p.m. local time on Thursday.

"This is a weapon that would be used against a large footprint on the ground," Starr said on CNN. The target in question was reportedly an ISIS complex with a camp and tunnels and where personnel were assembling.

The area is very close to the Pakistan border, Starr said, and "is still a border that is not really controlled."

"And they have seen ISIS develop on the Afghanistan side of the this border," she added.


http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/58efaec977bb701b008b8487-2272/moabbomb.jpg

"At 7:32 pm local time today, U.S. Forces - Afghanistan conducted a strike on an ISIS-K tunnel complex in Achin district, Nangarhar province, Afghanistan, as part of ongoing efforts to defeat ISIS-K in Afghanistan in 2017," US Central Command said in a statement.

"The strike used a GBU-43 bomb dropped from a U.S. aircraft," the statement said. "The strike was designed to minimize the risk to Afghan and U.S. Forces conducting clearing operations in the area while maximizing the destruction of ISIS-K fighters and facilities."

"As ISIS-K's losses have mounted, they are using IEDs, bunkers and tunnels to thicken their defense," Gen. John W. Nicholson, commander of US forces in Afghanistan, said in the statement, referring to the ISIS branch in Afghanistan and Pakistan, ISIS-Khorasan. "This is the right munition to reduce these obstacles and maintain the momentum of our offensive against ISIS-K."


http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/58efb1c277bb70b51a8b58e5-855/screen%20shot%202017-04-13%20at%2011233%20pm.png

[sheme]

Wow that sounds very serious.

[Bob]

Wow that sounds very serious.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9H50tHiHjs

The video explains the device


https://localtvwiti.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/gettyimages-2751809.jpg

over a mile in explosive radius, with penetration ability.. to get to tunnels, and bunker bust..

[norman]

That report is deliberately short of details. There must be a lot more to the way it explodes. For effective deep penetration, there has to be a sequential burst of separate explosions, with one clearing the way for the next to get deeper into the ground and so on. Although the video sounded like a single bang, I wonder if that was only because we just heard the first surface explosion and the rest were muffled enough to get lost in the general decaying rumble that we heard.

[Bob]

That report is deliberately short of details. There must be a lot more to the way it explodes. For effective deep penetration, there has to be a sequential burst of separate explosions, with one clearing the way for the next to get deeper into the ground and so on. Although the video sounded like a single bang, I wonder if that was only because we just heard the first surface explosion and the rest were muffled enough to get lost in the general decaying rumble that we heard.

I'd love to see those details and spec's. Reports are saying Obama was afraid to use this device for fear or something like that..

A thermobaric bomb does take the oxygen out of the air. I assume that means anyone caught in tunnels which supposedly this bomb was designed to get to, would have suffocated before the rebound thermal flash.

BTW, I met some of the design team in Eglin AFB, their "HERD" group back in the 90's. They are very very qualified to design awesome weapons. And fast too..

This link here http://www.weeklystandard.com/sucking-the-oxygen-out-of-a-cave/article/2300 is about a smaller version of a thermobaric device - here are some quotes:


The bomb is the BLU-118/B, better known as a thermobaric bomb. It was the first of its kind used in the war, although variations of the bomb have been used since Vietnam (namely, the 500-pound BLU-118 containing napalm).

Here's how your average fuel-air bomb works: A warhead containing a canister of aerosol liquid such as ethylene oxide or an explosive powder is dropped on a target. "A small initial explosive charge bursts this canister at a predetermined height, allowing the contents to form a concentrated explosive vapor cloud. This cloud is then ignited by a second, larger charge, to generate an intense fireball and blast overpressure. . . . Even if the FAE (fuel-air explosive) fails to detonate completely, it will generate a widespread burning effect," says Jane's. "The temperature can be as high as 3,000 degrees Celsius--more than twice that generated by a conventional explosive. The blast wave can travel at approximately 10,000 feet per second."

The Russians used thermobaric weapons during the 1994-1996 war in Chechnya and in Dagestan in 1999. According to GlobalSecurity.org, "conventional weapons could not force out the Chechens and the Russian Army looked for other ways to move them." The Russians ruled out chemical weapons and resorted to "ground-delivered thermobaric weapons." (It is believed that only the United States, Russia, and the United Kingdom possess versions of the thermobaric bomb.)

But the BLU-118/B (which Jane's believes to be the product of the Defense Threat Reduction Agency's Hard Target Defeat Program Office) takes the fuel-air bomb to the next level. First, the warhead is encased in a 2,000-pound bunker-busting bombshell. Rather than exploding over a widespread area above ground, the BLU-118/B penetrates deep into the ground, through concrete barriers, and then ignites everything inside. Says editor Robert Hewson, "The bomb can be delivered by an F-15 or a B-52 or even a B-2. It's a free-falling smart bomb, guided by a laser either from another plane or from the ground and either dropped on top of a cave or in its mouth, depending on the surrounding territory--ideally you want to drop it at the mouth of the cave."

Which makes this an ideal weapon in the current stage of the war. As Major A.C. Roper, spokesman for U.S. forces, put it, "The exact size of the enemy forces occupying a series of cave complexes is not known." And sending the Marines or the Army's 10th Mountain Division into every crawling space in the region could prove costly. So on March 2, as part of the ongoing Operation Anaconda, a thermobaric bomb was dropped on an area where suspected al Qaeda and Taliban forces were thought to be regrouping. But after the bomb was dropped, it was unclear whether the target was successfully hit or not (many suspect the latter).

Not that this would reflect badly on the bomb itself. If a thermobaric bomb successfully hit the mouth of a cave, "it's goodbye to whoever's in that cave," says Hewson. "Even if you aren't hit by the blast, you'd be hit by the falling rubble." In other words, if you aren't incinerated, you'd probably be buried alive. "It doesn't matter. The end result is the same."

The significance of the thermobaric bomb cannot be underestimated. The Pentagon is hoping that this weapon will be useful not only against elusive enemies in cave complexes, but also on underground facilities, like, say, a chemical or biological plant in Iraq. "The United States didn't need to use the thermobaric bomb," Hewson argues. "The overriding reason for using it was to see how it worked." Against rogue states like Iraq, the bomb could penetrate underground targets where weapons of mass destruction are believed to be in development. Hewson mentions the anthrax scenario to best illustrate the BLU-118/B's usefulness: "Dropping a conventional bomb on a possible anthrax site will have limited damage and the anthrax could then escape into the air. With a thermobaric bomb, the underground facility is not only destroyed, it's incinerated. It'll kill everything inside."

In other words, testing out the 21,000 pound version of this on an ISIS target would or could be a precursor to a use of such, let's say North Korea, and/or Syria's biological and Chemical stocks, no matter where they are hidden... A way to take them out through incineration and burying seems like what a military strategy would be - contain destroy contain..

[TargeT]

The MOAB (massive ordnance air burst) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GBU-43/B_Massive_Ordnance_Air_Blast) bomb is just a single explosion, around 2 meters off the ground... it's NOT a "bunker buster" and is mostly a psychological weapon as far as effectiveness goes.

it WILL clear out caves very effectively if you can drop the bomb near the entrance (the shock wave will be funneled through the cave and destroy any soft targets with in).

This is the "big stick" for the "unwashed masses"... it makes a TON of noise and surface damage (we used similar bombs, though much smaller in 'Nam & Iraq to clear forest (aka Daisy cutter (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLU-82))).


This seems to explain it (and, why not use a MOAB, we only have like 13, and they are pretty useless over all):

According to a senior fellow at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_for_Defense_of_Democracies), the fact that the MOAB was dropped in the same province where Staff Sgt. Mark De Alencar of 7th Special Forces Group (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7th_Special_Forces_Group_%28United_States%29) was killed April 8 is probably not a coincidence. "There might have been a degree of payback here as well," Bill Roggio (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Roggio) told Air Force Times (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_Times). "There's certainly nothing wrong with that, especially if you're killing your enemy."

The bomb is the BLU-118/B, better known as a thermobaric bomb..

That's not correct, the BLU-118 (daisy cutter) is a conventional bomb.





In other words, testing out the 21,000 pound version of this on an ISIS target would or could be a precursor to a use of such, let's say North Korea, and/or Syria's biological and Chemical stocks, no matter where they are hidden... A way to take them out through incineration and burying seems like what a military strategy would be - contain destroy contain..

I highly doubt it, it's not very good at getting to "hidden" things... mostly just a devastating surface weapon.

We do have good bunker buster (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunker_buster)bombs.. this isn't one.

[Bob]

Target - what about a 1 .. 2 punch then, a bunker buster and then a thermobaric?

Such as from my post above, within the quote this"

"the BLU-118/B (which Jane's believes to be the product of the Defense Threat Reduction Agency's Hard Target Defeat Program Office) takes the fuel-air bomb to the next level.

First, the warhead is encased in a 2,000-pound bunker-busting bombshell.

Rather than exploding over a widespread area above ground, the BLU-118/B penetrates deep into the ground, through concrete barriers, and then ignites everything inside. Says editor Robert Hewson".

If a cruise is used first, then a smaller BLU-118/B buster/thermobaric is used to open up the site, in conjunction with the GBU-43/B airblast thermobaric afterwards, one would have good penetration, a 1 mile thermal burn to deal with chemicals/biologicals.

Peel back hardened structures, eliminate ground based anti-aircraft, get to the hidden chem/biologicals, burn them all.. ??

--update--

I looked up on http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/blu-118.htm (Global security.org) some of the details of the BLU-118/B

They are calling it a combo device, bunker busting and thermobaric

It is the "B" designation that makes it different than a conventional bomb apparently..

Here are the quoted details:


The BLU-118/B nomenclature was first reported on 21 December 2001, and this weapon is clearly unrelated to the BLU-118 500 lb. napalm canister used during the Vietnam war.

The BLU-118/B is a penetrating warhead filled with an advanced thermobaric explosive that, when detonated, generates higher sustained blast pressures in confined spaces such as tunnels and underground facilities.

The BLU-118/B uses the same penetrator body as the standard BLU-109 weapon. The significant difference is the replacement of the high explosive fill with a new thermobaric explosive that provides increased lethality in confined spaces.

The BLU-118/B warhead uses a Fuze Munition Unit (FMU)-143J/B to initiate the explosive. The FMU-143 fuze has been modified with a new booster and a 120-millisecond delay. All weapon guidance systems and employment options currently used with the BLU-109 warhead are compatible with the new BLU-118/B warhead.

BLU-118/B payload candidates included PBXIH-135 [one of the Navy's new insensitive polymer bonded explosives], HAS-13, or SFAE [solid fuel air explosive] loaded into existing BLU-109 Weapon Bodies. Conventional high explosives (CHE) are characterized by a sensitivity to mechanical or thermal energy. Insensitive high explosives (IHE), on the other hand, require extraordinarily high stimuli before violent reaction occurs.

Insensitive explosives reliably fulfil their performance, readiness and operational requirements on demand, but the violence of response to unplanned hazardous stimuli is restricted to an acceptable level.

This means that when a munition is in a fire, hit by a fragment, bullet or high velocity projectile or subject to some other hazard the result will not be a detonation or a violent reaction of the explosive and propellant; no more than severe burning will ocur [such a deflagration is an exothermic reaction that occurs particle to particle at subsonic speed].

Some insensitive explosives are known to react in a different way to conventional explosives. For instance, detonation reactions are slower but more energy is released in a way that has the potential to produce a lot more damage.

The BLU-118/B bomb body can be attached to a variety of laser guidance system packages, including the GBU-15, GBU-24, GBU-27, and GBU-28 laser guided bombs, as well as the AGM-130 missiles.

It just seems to me, for the Syria/N. Korea chemical/biological stockpiles, a BLU-118/B buster/thermobaric used to open up the site, then use a GBU-43/B for a massive heat/thermal front to remove/incinerate any chem/biologicals which may be exposed by opening up a sealed bunker. Using the Cruise first would mess up ground strike back forces, possibly planes nearby rendered impossible to fly.. I think it's more than shock-'n'-awe going on here with the GBU-43/B test..

Global Security dot Org also agrees with you that the GBU-43 is NOT designed to be a bunker buster.. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/moab.htm


Eglin Air Force Base's Air Armament Center conducted the second live test of the largest conventional bomb in the US inventory at approximately 2:30 p.m. EST 21 November 2003. Designated the GBU-43/B, the 21,700-pound bomb was launched from an MC-130E Combat Talon I aircraft flown by a crew assigned to Eglin's 46th Test Wing.

Haaretz (Israel) http://www.haaretz.com/us-news/1.783372 seems to feel the GBR-43/B qualifies as an awesome terrible weapon. The aluminum/air reaction would be thermobaric.


The bomb is built by the Alabama-based aeronautics company Dynetics and weighs 9,525 kilograms (21,000 pounds), measures 9,15 meters (30 feet) and contains around 8,165 kilograms (18,000 pounds) of tritonal, a mixture of the explosive material TNT and aluminum powder. 


http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214914716300927 - "The term “thermobaric” is a compound word derived from the Greek words “therme” and “baros” meaning “heat” and “pressure” (implying the effects of temperature and pressure on the target), respectively."

The GBU-43/B then is capable of meeting those spec's.

Here is some science behind why GBU-43/B offers some awesome capabilities:


There has been a long bygone of studying the blast explosives, reactive metals and associated metal combustion technologies. The achievements of the development of Solid Fuel-Air-Explosive (SFAE) have been demonstrated by a 30–40% increase of internal blast over a conventional explosive. SFAE is a singular event having combined mixing and initiation of the reaction. In confined spaces, if the solid fuel is ignited early in the dispersion process, transition to full detonation is not a requirement for enhanced blast occurrence. A series of reflective shock waves generated by the detonation leads the hot detonation gases and metal particles to be mixed and the metal particles are compressed at the same time. These actions provide certain chemical kinetic support to maintain a hot environment, thus causing more metal to ignite and burn. This later-time metal combustion process produces a significant pressure rise over a longer time duration (10–50 msec). This phase is generally referred to as after burning or late-time impulse which can occur outside of where the detonation occurred and is responsible for more widespread damage.

Aluminum has been used as the metal of choice, due to its high heat of combustion, cost and availability.

Billets of SFAE made of aluminum provide savings in volume with increased fuel mass for blast performance. However, combustion efficiency has been an issue to be handled, especially in the case of high fuel content (35–60 wt%) with respect to the total weight of explosive composition.

Often poor combustion efficiency is observed in many of the thermobaric warhead tests, which means the severe ineffectiveness of the weapon.

This is due to the high ignition temperature, 2200 K, which is the typically required temperature for the proper combustion of aluminum.

As it is known, during the burning of aluminum, heat is produced and aluminum oxide (Al2O3) is formed.

However, the complete burning of all the metal requires maintaining the environment's hotness.

The science page is saying: "enhanced-blast weapons are primarily designed and effective to demolish bunkers, caves and enclosed structures (see Reference [40] for a review of thermobaric weapons)"

Reference 40: P. Marchandin, D. Watt
A review of thermobarics, solid fuel air explosives (SFAE) and reactive metals
Brussels, Belgium: Munitions Safety Information Analysis Center, NATO headquarters, December (2005)

So for Afghanistan, shock and awe (intimidation), create some suck out of air from caves/tunnels, nothing really for "bunker busting" with JUST GBU-43/B,

So if GBU-43/B was being then "tested on a live site" to note the range and effects (as was done in Nam with so many proof of concept weapons systems), that may then become one tool, for generating a large blast radius and heat. (I think would be good for burning up chem/biologicals).

But they really should use something like the BLU-118/B series to bunker bust and get penetration.. When the can is opened, and some heat added (from the thermo of the BLU-118/B), then maybe a wide spread "clean up sanitization" may be needed to get stuff which was released from the "sealed can" (read bunker)..

I suppose those are ways to avoid using tactical nukes, and stay away from that can of worms.. My gut is saying this "test" was more than retaliation from the enemy having killed a special forces..

I kinda believe that it is a test of the device for use in thermal "clearing", and it could be part of one effective strategy to hit Syria's chem/bio weapons as well as N. Korea's similar.. the temperatures created and the range of the thermal cloud could be a great neutralization system, a sterilization system, for chemicals and biologicals. I just think the order of the weapons used in the attack(s) are critical for the situation at hand..

[TargeT]

Target - what about a 1 .. 2 punch then, a bunker buster and then a thermobaric?


Well a bunker buster is sort of a "1,2 punch" in itself.. it penetrates THEN explodes (not explode for penetration) it's like a sabot round out of a tank..... that explodes after it penetrates... haha.

35162

35163




"the BLU-118/B

haha, ignore what I said.. that is a thermo.. I was thinking BLU-82 (damn military nomenclature is confusing as hell at times).


the MOAB isn't a thermo tho.. just a big ass bomb; the shock wave from it is more than enough to clear out a cave system... I think this was just us throwing a REALLY BIG shoe at a known cockroach hole, probably in retaliation for the SF guy that was lost (those guys have deep ties in the community).

Good description here:

The basic operational concept bears some similarity to the BLU-82 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLU-82) Daisy Cutter, which was used to clear heavily wooded areas in the Vietnam War (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War) and in Iraq (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq) to clear mines and later as a psychological weapon against the Iraqi military. After the psychological impact of the BLU-82 on enemy soldiers was witnessed, and no BLU-82 weapons remained, the MOAB was developed partly to continue the ability to intimidate Iraqi soldiers. Pentagon officials had suggested their intention to use MOAB as an anti-personnel weapon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-personnel_weapon), as part of the "shock and awe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_and_awe)" strategy integral to the 2003 invasion of Iraq (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq).

MOAB is big, but, a fraction of a nuclear bomb (MOAB is something like 11 tons of TNT..)
The MOAB has roughly 0.085% of the explosive energy of the Hiroshima bomb.

MOAB dropped on Manhattan:
35164

"Little boy" (nuclear) dropped on Manhattan:
35165

[kirolak]

Strange how something so lethal can look so beautifully streamlined. . :(

[mojo]

Wow thats a big bomb.....

bPXVGQnJm0w

...my career field in the Air Force was a 46250 and loaded every munition we had in the arsenal including nukes but never a bomb that big. The biggest bombs we had back in the 70's that I recall were the thousand pounders other than napalm which was probably a little heavier as a liquid in the tank. To skirt the laws of the Geneva convention which outlawed Napalm after Vietnam we called it incindergell.

Here's another one about big bombs
nF4JkJZvso4

[Bob]

GBU-43/B Massive Ordnance Air Blast Bomb, is what CentCom was reporting as the appropriate device for the intended target. The name ISIS-K is new to me, on searching the CentCom website only 3 references to that name appeared, referencing the April 13 bomb drop.. ref: https://search.usa.gov/search?affiliate=centcom&query=isis-k

However GBU-43/B is not the real biggie in the US arsenal..

( See in post #8 above, TargeT's first image - http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?97132-M.O.A.B.-used-in-Afghanistan-by-the-US&p=1146186&viewfull=1#post1146186 )

The GBU-57 is a 30,000 pound bomb with a penetration capability.. to not explode until it reaches its deep target.. ref: https://theaviationist.com/2013/10/28/b-2-mop/

GBU-57 is one of those things not talked about too much (there have been many modifications to increase penetration into hardened bunkers):


https://theaviationist.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/B-2-MOP.jpg

Shown above the image of a B-2 stealth bomber carrying its GBU-57 Massive Ordnance Penetrator bunker buster bomb. Versions are listed as GBU-57 A and B

The article:


From October 2013

By David Cenciotti
Even if B-52s have been used to test it, the B-2 Spirit stealth bomber is the only aircraft in the U.S. Air Force inventory currently capable to carry and release the heaviest U.S. bomb, the 30,000-lb GBU-57 Massive Ordnance Penetrator (MOP).

The heavy GBU-57 is a 20-foot long GPS-guided bomb believed to be able to penetrate 200 feet of concrete before exploding, thus being capable to hit and destroy deeply buried targets.

Like bunkers in Iran, Syria or North Korea….

There are not many images showing the GBU-57 and even less show the MOP next to its intended platform.

That’s why the top image, taken by Jim Mumaw in Jul. 2009, is extremely interesting and rare.

(Image credit: Jim Mumaw)

reference: http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/mopping-up-the-usas-30000-pound-bomb-03172/ the GBU 57

"The bunker-busting bomb has been in development since 2004, with early tests conducted by the US Defense Threat Reduction Agency (DTRA). The hard-penetrating weapon is intended to be carried on B-2A Spirit stealth bombers, thought to be capable of carrying two of the weapons in internal bays."


The GBU-57A/B MOP project began in 2004 as a proof of technology demonstration, with early tests conducted by the US Defense Threat Reduction Agency that focuses on securing and cooperatively destroying nuclear materials and bio-chemical weapons.

"This project’s goal is a GPS-guided, hard-penetrating weapon (the GBU-57A/B MOP) that can be carried aboard B-2A Spirit bombers to defeat “a specialized set of hard and deeply buried targets” like bunkers and tunnel facilities. Some graphics show expectations of over 60 feet of concrete destroyed, and a USAF article stated that the bomb was meant to penetrate 200 feet underground before exploding."

The Jerusalem Post reported on testing of this device, what and where it may be used:


June 7/13:

“In an effort to show Israel and other ally states that it is capable of striking Iran’s nuclear plants, the US has recently conducted a test of its bunker buster bomb, destroying a replica of an underground nuclear facility, Hebrew daily Yediot Aharonot reported on Friday.

The nuclear facility replica, that cost millions of dollars to build, was made of concrete and buried under dozens of feet of dirt and rocks, Yediot reported.”


http://media.defenceindustrydaily.com/images/ORD_MOP_Mockup_in_B-2_WLT_lg.jpg

Previously in 2012 the penetration ability, 28 January 2012, the Wall Street Journal reported that the Department of Defense had concluded that the GBU-57/B Massive Ordnance Penetrator was not capable of destroying certain facilities in Iran and had submitted a request for funds to upgrade the weapon. After being upgraded, it successfully passed the test.

[TargeT]

The GBU-57 is a 30,000 pound bomb with a penetration capability.. to not explode until it reaches its deep target.. ref: https://theaviationist.com/2013/10/28/b-2-mop/

GBU-57 is one of those things not talked about too much (there have been many modifications to increase penetration into hardened bunkers):


the GBU 57 was our answer to nuclear fall out from Bunker Buster Nuclear bombs.... we just built a bigger conventional bomb that penetrates (tough, from my understanding the whole project was a bust, I personally think the "upgrade" thing was just a PR cover to excuse the wasted money)..

[Bob]

The GBU-57 is a 30,000 pound bomb with a penetration capability.. to not explode until it reaches its deep target.. ref: https://theaviationist.com/2013/10/28/b-2-mop/

GBU-57 is one of those things not talked about too much (there have been many modifications to increase penetration into hardened bunkers):


the GBU 57 was our answer to nuclear fall out from Bunker Buster Nuclear bombs.... we just built a bigger conventional bomb that penetrates (tough, from my understanding the whole project was a bust, I personally think the "upgrade" thing was just a PR cover to excuse the wasted money)..

I was just reading that some strategists when thinking tactical nuclear uses in the theatre, want to put something like the mini-nuke on-board a GBU-57 style penetrator.. saying it is needed to keep fallout to a minimum, so why not explode a mini-nuke 200 feet underground. I can't say I understand that logic..

[TargeT]

why not explode a mini-nuke 200 feet underground. I can't say I understand that logic..

From what I recall the GBU-57 wasn't going much more than 30 feet... haha

a LOT of what gets published is basically sales pitch from the various vendors ;)

[mojo]

in a way it does sound like an Hammer talk, meet the ex wife ...:)

m0W8Zv27D-k

[Bob]

why not explode a mini-nuke 200 feet underground. I can't say I understand that logic..

From what I recall the GBU-57 wasn't going much more than 30 feet... haha

a LOT of what gets published is basically sales pitch from the various vendors ;)

It certainly seems hilarious what the vendors talk about. I am actually eager to see the MOP in operation to see actually what it does. Do you think it will be Iran or N. Korea that it is used first?

Supposedly after the failed 30 foot fiasco in 2012, they upgraded something to get it to 200 feet. No idea what they did.

Folks on other threads seem to say Trump is playing Chicken.. I don't think so.. I think maybe we are into a longterm mess, similar to Nam but with new hardware..

[mgray]

Perhaps this is the wrong thread, but it appears Trump is flipping on his promises and becoming war-like to placate those that are against him like Sen John McCain.

[Bob]

Perhaps this is the wrong thread, but it appears Trump is flipping on his promises and becoming war-like to placate those that are against him like Sen John McCain.

I think such is fine here.. We're just talking about different types of bombs being used.. what their qualifications are and what their advantages and disadvantages are.

I think the war-like attitude is something to note. Other threads are saying it is "playing chicken" or messing around with the "art of the deal"..

I think when dealing with sociopaths such as Assad and Kim Jung Un, one needs to realize they are mentally highly unstable, schizophrenic no doubt too. Who knows what perceived demons they are battling.

I think they need more help than the rest of the "sane" (hmm) world does.. but that won't happen. They will be terminated one way or an other by the US, or China, but Putin no doubt wants to play his games too, as he did trying to re-establish the old Soviet block.. under his authoritarian rule. That is the difference between Russia (or China) and the US, how they occupy and dictate what happens in a "taken over" country.. Look at that to see.. Who establishes Policy in those taken over countries.. If they are free, they have no policy dictated to them..

[uzn]

https://i0.web.de/image/394/32273394,pd=3/mutter-bomben.jpg

[DNA]

I don't believe 90% of this story. Just how dangerous can cave dwelling ak carrying nomadic types be? Were they interfering with the Rockefeller-CIA opium fields? A moab would indeed send a message if that was the case.

[sheme]

Well it is done now- I hope the victims passed quickly - It was my understanding that these people worked for Obama and the cabal -perhaps that is why Obama failed to destroy the "enemy". It is also my understanding that Trump has handed the Army a free ticket to do what they feel is necessary, within reason that is. Perhaps due to the power change the Cabal has decided it's assets are now a liability and they need to be removed.

[norman]

Well it is done now- I hope the victims passed quickly - It was my understanding that these people worked for Obama and the cabal -perhaps that is why Obama failed to destroy the "enemy". It is also my understanding that Trump has handed the Army a free ticket to do what they feel is necessary, within reason that is. Perhaps due to the power change the Cabal has decided it's assets are now a liability and they need to be removed.

Good thinking there sheme. i hadn't thought of that dimension to things in a long while.

[ghostrider]

Scary , this is only what they are reporting, who knows what kind of bombs and how many they are dropping... feels like they leaked this out as a warning to North Korea ... they could have been using this kind of tactics on Isis all along, preventing them from forming in the first place... if the government was serious about defeating terrorist they could but, FIGHTING terrorist makes lots of money those invested in the stock market in companies with defense contracts ...

[joeecho]

Now that the seal is broken on the MOAB, what seal is next? The ATBIP or a TNW?

A dangerous game this slippery slope....

[mojo]

the ultimate ride...

snTaSJk0n_Y

[Bob]

I suppose then MoJo we could talk about what types of bombs will be used on N. Korea (to quote US CENTCOM, "the right bomb for the right target") - if N. Korea tries to strike US Japanese bases (KJU's threats to destroy the US (bases) ).. Wonder if KJU would try to launch one of his nukes on Japan's US bases.. If so what do you think the US would do, use conventional weapons on Pyongyang, or to strike their aircraft fields, and/or strike their nuke reactor(s), or stockpiles? Or go after the chem or biological weapons..

(I've felt the Blu-118/B with assorted cruise missiles and 1 or two of the GBU grade weapons would be great for dealing with bio/chem sites.. maybe even nuke sites)... Some folks are saying the US should just find where KJU is and use the right sized nuke on him (probably a nuclear "penetrator" guided bomb like b61-12 or equivalent to reach deep bunkers he may try to hide in) and end the fiasco (remove the king in Chess maneuver).. Who knows..

Considering that N. Korea has been buying from Chinese companies "restricted" technology, no doubt those economic interests in China are going to squeak a bit, but quite possibly Trump has assured China, don't worry, you will have many more business deals coming up and don't need the N. Korean market...

I believe Trump would declare a 30 days of Martial Law to deal with the violent peace-nicks ensuing from a nuke strike back on N. Korea (if they strike with a nuke on Japan)..

Wondering out loud...If Trump has said to China, "Hey fellas, who do you want as a tight business partner and Ally? That 'problem, N. Korea' or the US and it's massive markets? Wouldn't you want a very strong Ally to be able to make a strong statement about Russian imperialism?" Maybe China would jump on that, you suppose?

[mojo]

...good points, and China will be the surprise... their offer to Kim was a good one saying, gradually reduce your nuclear capabilities and China will defend you. The US armada playing the visible defensive roll against possible missile launch but unfortunately a target as well. But there's going to be new technology involved in solving this issue if China isnt able. Perhaps the big secret a black op project like the TR3B and or other reverse engineered craft planted right on top of N. Korea but invisible/cloaked to disarm any nuke about to go off. Just thinking out of the box a little but we know they have that craft.

[Atlas]

Some folks are saying the US should just find where KJU is and use the right sized nuke on him [...]
What if other countries decide to do the same and use the right sized nukes on their enemies?

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[CelineK]

anybody designing and creating weapons of mass destruction... should be put on trial for crimes against humanity

[Atlas]

I think when dealing with sociopaths such as Assad and Kim Jung Un, one needs to realize they are mentally highly unstable, schizophrenic no doubt too.
I think you're wrong.

The Illuminati Target: Bashar Al Assad
bSFkIxKaWeA

[norman]

Bashar al Assad has never been on my list of nutjobopaths. Every interview I've ever seen with him shows me he's a fairly normal man in a tough spot.

The west doesn't win an argument by superiority of intellect, it wins by superiority of force. That's no accident. It was built for that purpose. The citizen passengers of that get very inflated ideas about themselves because of it. It's hardly surprising that the so called elite who built the 'western' power platform are now deliberately hammering those people's expectations. Their expectations and lifestyles are artificially inflated. The monopoly of superior force, over time, interferes with the cultural evolutionary process.

[Bob]

I find it hilarious actually that Assad is considered a good guy.

I think it is tragic really... going back to 2013 the chemical weapons uses.. can't believe that is being ignored. Chemical weapons ARE WMDs in the same category as NUKES as far as US DTRA's concerned.

hundreds of posts to the effect - example - https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nearly-1500-killed-in-syrian-chemical-weapons-attack-us-says/2013/08/30/b2864662-1196-11e3-85b6-d27422650fd5_story.html

like they say, we disagree.

Should we ignore that google says "About 3,230,000 results" when searching on:
"2013 assad uses chemical weapons"

You want me to be forgetting 2013, and then take a stance to praise Assad as being someone who won't use WMDs. NP.. I just don't think so. Certainly not watching what may be what constitutes a cherry picked video.

[norman]

You're right, we'll have to just disagree and still be good friends.

I think in 2003 it was Bashar's father in charge. That makes it slightly more likely to be true but not much, to my mind.

[TargeT]

Bashar al Assad has never been on my list of nutjobopaths. Every interview I've ever seen with him shows me he's a fairly normal man in a tough spot.


Completely objectively: ignoring this specific situation:

have you ever met a sociopath/psychopath?

I knew one for months before I finally caught on, I thought he was awesome and my wife worked for him so we interacted a lot, he always had what seemed like insightful thoughtful ideas and comments (very short, not very fleshed out).

They don't even think like we do, it's very tricky.. you often have to fall back on just catching them in lies (or spending so much time around them they eventually let their mask slip).

if nothing else (and I don't trust US reporting much) that still leaves a question mark in my head in this situation.

[Bob]

In a few posts above, @CelineK brought up a very good suggestion.. :


anybody designing and creating weapons of mass destruction... should be put on trial for crimes against humanity

WMD's are chemicals, biologicals and Nuclear weapons.. weapons of potentially mass destruction.. inhumanity..

Kim Jung Un considers nuclear devices as his ACE in the hole, to threaten all on the Peninsula and Japan, and the US.. that KJU will strike first, preemptive strike.. Pure insanity.

It has also been said, that biologicals are the POOR MAN'S NUKE also such being used as the mindset of a madman, to terrorize others, to harm the innocents for their sociopathic or psychopathic visions of narcissistic grandeur.. As TargeT pointed out, unless one has experienced on first hand, it may be easy to poo poo it off. I've experienced a sociopathic stalker for 28 years these days who the Courts and police agree is criminally aggressive. Knowing what these people are first hand gives a most interesting perspective in being able to spot the dangers.. To use WMD's is worse than abhorrent.. Sociopathic and criminal in the minimum... if in a leader of a country, then questions about "crimes against humanity" would be a justified position I believe..

[norman]

Great point TargeT.

Here's another point that makes me think. The Ba'ath party, which Assad is officially the head of ( in Syria ) is very much controlled by Freemasonry. Bashar's father was always having a big battle with Freemason interference, and even won the battle for a while. It's very likely that Bashar, being a quiet little mouse type, has lost control of the Ba'athists at this point and it's completely run by Freemasons again. IF that is true, the likelihood that people within his military and political establishment are in cahoots with external actors pursuing something the Freemasons are on board with, is strong.

[sheme]

Watching RT TV last evening they reported that Edward Snowden claims that the MOAB hit CIA tunnels.

[norman]

Watching RT TV last evening they reported that Edward Snowden claims that the MOAB hit CIA tunnels.

https://theduran.com/snowden-afghan-bunker-moab-bomb/


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9UGqNNWsAI8G5O.jpg:small

[Bob]

Tora Bora (Pashto: تورا بورا‎black cave) is a cave complex situated in the White Mountains of eastern Afghanistan, near the Khyber Pass.

In 2001, the United States and its allies suspected the complex was being used by al-Qaed and was the location of its commander Osama bin Laden's headquarters.

Locations:

https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/assets/4232335/afghanistan_war_le_monde.jpg

The M.O.A.B. :

Thursday, it was dropped on a system of tunnels and caves used by ISIS forces in Nangarhar province, northeastern Afghanistan.

The Nangarhar province:

Nangarhar is one of the 34 provinces of Afghanistan, located in the eastern part of the country. It is divided into twenty-two districts and has a population of about 1,436,000. The city of Jalalabad is the capital of Nangarhar province.

Nangarhar was used by pro-Pakistani mujahideen (rebel forces) fighting against the Soviet-backed Democratic Republic of Afghanistan.

CIA officers had assisted the mujahideen in extending and shoring up the caves. In Operation Cyclone during the early 1980s, the CIA was assisting the mujahideen to use for resistance during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

The US then supported their effort and several years later, the Taliban formed and took control of the country, enforcing fundamentalist rule.

Several cave areas were used in much earlier periods, as the difficult terrain formed a natural defensive position and had been used by tribal warriors fighting foreign invaders.

The Battle of Tora Bora was a military engagement that took place in Afghanistan from December 6, 2001 to December 17, 2001, during the opening stages of the War in Afghanistan.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/Tora_Bora.JPG

Tora Bora was variously described by the western media to be an impregnable cave fortress housing 2000 men complete with a hospital, a hydroelectric power plant, offices, a hotel, arms and ammunition stores, roads large enough to drive a tank into, and elaborate tunnel and ventilation systems. Both the British and American press published elaborate plans of the base. This most likely was "fake news".

Rumsfeld, US DOD, said about the "cave-base", "there's not one of those, there are many of those". "Again, with the caves, they weren't these crazy mazes or labyrinths of caves.."


published by the Public Broadcasting Service, a Staff Sergeant from the U.S. Special Forces Operational Detachment Alpha (ODA) 572, who had been in the Battle of Tora Bora described the caves:
"Again, with the caves, they weren't these crazy mazes or labyrinths of caves that they described. Most of them were natural caves.

Some were supported with some pieces of wood maybe about the size of a 10-foot by 24-foot room, at the largest.

They weren't real big. I know they made a spectacle out of that, and how are we going to be able to get into them?

We worried about that too, because we see all these reports.

Then it turns out, when you actually go up there, there's really just small bunkers, and a lot of different ammo storage is up there. – Jeff, Staff Sgt. ODA 572

Who then is telling the truth, a staff Sgt, or the British and US press?

Which cave complex did the M.O.A.B. attack?

references: assorted historical interviews and articles

[Bob]

CentCom is reporting, that 94 bodies have been found at this time.

the M.O.A.B. originally was designed at Eglin AFB's HERD division to be used against the forces of Saddam Hussein.

[Bob]

Just for some background - in the early 2000 year I was asked to meet with the Engineers at H.E.R.D. at Eglin AFB and again over at Tyndall AFB in Florida. So I have first hand experience about their "mindset". (High Energy Research Directorate) http://www.eglin.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/390999/afrl-munitions-directorate-history/ I don't believe I was misled, nor deceived about their mission or skills. I was honored that they respected my expertise and skill level and was privy to also meet privately on a couple occasions with the Colonel in Charge at Eglin.

[sheme]

Well your expertise and skill level are apreciated here Bob also your tolerance for the uninformed I thank you friend.

[Bob]

Well your expertise and skill level are appreciated here Bob also your tolerance for the uninformed I thank you friend.

What was hilarious was not about "new weapons" they were creating, what they wanted to know, could we FIND the weapons that they lost since the 50's.. there are MANY areas in Florida where unexploded ordnance exists, both onshore and offshore.. it is a serious problem..

So many areas around the world also have unexploded ordnance, such as from WW2, like all over England, France, which tend to turn up during building excavation.. Locations which were bombed from the air all over Europe.

Those over in Hawaii will know of Kahoʻolawe island. Kahoʻolawe is located about seven miles (11 km) southwest of Maui and also southeast of Lanai, and it is 11 mi (18 km) long by 6.0 mi (9.7 km) wide. This island was a test "bombing site" and training ground. There remains numerous unexploded ordnance on-shore and offshore. It is "off limits".


On December 7, 1941, after the Imperial Japanese Navy attacked Pearl Harbor and Oahu, the U.S. Army declared martial law throughout Hawaii, and it used Kahoʻolawe as a place to train American soldiers and Marines headed west to engage in the War in the Pacific. The use of Kahoʻolawe as a bombing range was believed to be critical, since the United States was executing a new type of war in the Pacific Islands.

It's a major problem, worldwide.

HERD provided a test location where bombs (unexploded) were located, the object was to find them non-invasively and not get killed while doing it :) I got a chance to play with their ordnance removal robot, which was kinda fun.. Another issue is mines which were planted during the many many wars which needed to be found (plastic casings), and IED (Improvised Explosive Devices), planted by terrorists.. Quite a challenge, the end result being a safer world for all..

All over Afghanistan mines and unexploded bombs exist.. One thing that the M.O.A.B device would do is "clear" many unexploded ordnance and mines with such a massive pressure wave..

Here are some interesting references:

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/seventy-years-world-war-two-thousands-tons-unexploded-bombs-germany-180957680/

There Are Still Thousands of Tons of Unexploded Bombs in Germany, Left Over From World War II
More than 70 years after being dropped in Europe, the ordnance is still inflicting harm and mayhem

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20150922-these-nazi-bombs-are-more-dangerous-now-than-ever-before -

Thousands of World War II bombs still lurk underground – and they’re even more dangerous now than in the 1940s, making defusing a risky, delicate process.
70 years after the war’s end, tens of thousands of similar items of unexploded ordnance (UXO) may still be awaiting discovery beneath the peaceful gardens, roads and buildings of post-war Britain, say experts. And they’re often more dangerous now than they were during the war.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/19/unexploded-bomb-found-river-thames-close-houses-parliament/

Two of London's busiest underground stations had to be evacuated after a unexploded Second World War bomb was discovered close by in the River Thames.

Police were called to Victoria Embankment close to Westminster Tube station at around 5.15pm following reports that workmen had dredged up a device while working in the river.

The ordnance was understood to be an unexploded Second World War bomb ..

[TargeT]

I wouldn't want to be in a cave near this thing.... Look at the shock wave!

MZ8j4QlYcYk

[mojo]

...sure hope the C-130 aircraft had loudspeakers over that cave system... this would be the last thing they hear...

uoaXWMlG5ZM

[TargeT]

...sure hope the C-130 aircraft had loudspeakers over that cave system... this would be the last thing they hear...



Judging by the size of the blast, hopefully they were above 8,000 feet.... haha (far from audible range)

[Carmody]

edited for posterity...

[Bob]

http://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/Images/2017/4/15/9c8dd307b59a4f758197495dc4bfefde_6.jpg

There is no appreciable "toxic residue" from having ignited the H6 explosive. The other component, Aluminum powder is converted to Aluminum Oxide. Aluminum Oxide is a stable form of Aluminum which is found as a major natural component of the earths crust - http://www.sandatlas.org/composition-of-the-earths-crust/ .

Now could Karzai possibly be talking about hidden chemical weapons that ISIS-K had squirreled away in the caves? Possibly some mini-nukes? (see below)

Is Karzai actually talking about Uranium or Plutonium being spread around by the M.O.A.B. having blown apart hidden nuclear weapons?

Would such have come from Pakistan (if there were hidden nukes), or from North Korea, or possibly some of the "missing nukes" from the ex-Soviet block countries?

Karzai's words about the "Poison" released I think is important to note. The M.O.A.B. does not create a toxic residue that would last any long time.

Karzai, former president of Afghanistan said this:





An attack that saw the United States drop the largest non-nuclear bomb on Afghanistan was a "brutal act" against Afghan people, the environment and the country's sovereignty, Hamid Karzai, former president, has told Al Jazeera.

"This was an inhuman act, a brutal act against an innocent country, against innocent people, against our land, against our sovereignty, against our soil and against our future," Karzai said in Kabul.

"A bomb of that magnitude has consequences for the environment, for our lives, for our plants, for our water, for our soil - this is poison."Karzai said he was speaking up because many Afghan officials - some of whom were part of his own cabinet - had endorsed the bombing.

"I considered it a treason and I stood up against them, and I will continue," he said.

"This poison will be there for years and years to come. How can we allow our country to be used this way And why? How many [ISIL fighters] have they killed, 100, 200, 300?

"Why should Afghanistan suffer in such a massive way with a bomb so big, so dangerous that they themselves call it the 'mother of all bombs'.

What an interesting stance, it seems. No civilians hurt, ISIS leaders targeted as well as infrastructure, and weapons caches. Was Karzai in league with the original ex-Soviet invaders?

From:
http://www.understandingwar.org/russia-and-afghanistan

Understanding war - Russia and Afghanistan


Afghanistan is overwhelmingly Muslim (99 percent), and Islam is the second largest religion in Russia, with around fifteen to twenty million adherents in the country, or ten to fifteen percent of the population. But these demographic details have minimum bearing on the relations between the two countries.

Most Russian Muslims live in the North Caucasus and Middle Volga Regions. Russia and Afghanistan also share sizeable Turkic ethnic minorities, such as the Uzbeks and Turkmen.

History

In December 1979, in the midst of the Cold War, the Soviet 40th Army invaded Afghanistan in order to prop up the communist government of the People’s Democratic Party of Afghanistan (PDPA) against a growing insurgency.

At the time, the United States had been making headway in the Middle East at Moscow’s expense, successfully courting Egypt, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and others. The Soviet Union feared the loss of its communist proxy in Afghanistan.

Thus, over the course of the 1980's, the Soviet Union poured in billions of dollars (US) into the war in Afghanistan, and at its peak, more than 100,000 Soviet soldiers were fighting in the country.

However, the Afghan resistance (the mujahideen) was heavily supported by a wide variety of international actors, including the US, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, China, and Egypt. In the end, the mujahideen prevailed and the Soviet Army was forced to withdraw from Afghanistan in February 1989, having lost tens of thousands killed and wounded.

Even after the collapse of the Soviet Union, Moscow continued to supply and arm the communist regime of Dr. Najibullah, but this was not enough, and Kabul fell to the mujahideen in 1992.

The different mujahideen factions could not agree on how to share power, and the country quickly descended into a bloody civil war. In 1994, a movement of Pashtun fundamentalist students most of whom were trained in madrasas (religious schools) in the refugee camps in Pakistan seized Kandahar and started a campaign to wrest the country from the hands of the warlords.

Known as the Taliban, this force marched into Kabul in 1996 and took control of most of the rest of the country by 1998.

Many mujahideen warlords were forced to flee to the north, where they joined the United Islamic Front for the Salvation of Afghanistan or Northern Alliance, led by Burhanuddin Rabbani and Ahmad Shah Massoud.

Even though Rabbani and Massoud’s Jamiat-e Islami was one of the main mujahideen factions responsible for the defeat of the Soviet Army during the 1980s, Moscow decided to lend its support to the Northern Alliance, as did Iran, India, and others. Russia did not want to see a fundamentalist state emerge in Afghanistan.

More importantly, the Taliban and their al-Qaeda allies were providing training and sanctuary to Chechen rebels, Central Asian militants, and others whom Moscow deemed as a threat.

Russia did not take part in the U.S.-led invasion to overthrow the Taliban in 2001, but Moscow shared intelligence with Washington during the invasion.

Russia has also allowed the U.S.-led coalition to send logistical and military supplies through Russian territory, and Moscow has been a major arms supplier to the Afghan government.

Political Interests, Ethnic Separatism, Islamism, and Terrorism

Moscow fears the rise of Islamic extremism among Russia’s substantial Muslim population, in addition to separatist movements among certain ethnic groups, particularly the Chechens.

The Kremlin views these forces as a severe threat to the state, and thus it willingly supported the U.S.-led overthrow of the Taliban—a movement which had provided aid to these groups.

Moscow has also used its participation in America’s “War on Terror” as an excuse for heavy-handedness in its crackdown on Islamist and separatist movements in Chechnya and elsewhere.

Outside its borders, Russia is concerned about the growth of Islamism and terrorism in its traditional sphere of influence or “near abroad”—the Balkans, the Caucasus, and Central Asia.

Many militants from these areas have significant ties to the Taliban, al-Qaeda, or other groups in Afghanistan, and therefore Russia does not want to see a Taliban comeback in Kabul or a failed state emerge in Afghanistan.

While the Kremlin may disapprove of NATO’s presence along its southern frontier, it does not want to see Afghanistan become a safe haven for a separatist, terrorist, or Islamist forces.

NATO

Russia has always been suspicious of the former anti-Soviet alliance, especially as many of its former satellite states in Eastern Europe and the Balkans accede to the North Atlantic Treaty. Unsurprisingly, Moscow is wary of the presence of so many NATO and US troops along its southern frontier. Russia supported the overthrow of the Taliban and wanted to see a stable government emerge in Kabul. It allowed the US and its partners to set up bases in its “near abroad” in Central Asia—Uzbekistan and later Kyrgyzstan—and allowed for the transport of supplies through Russian territory.

However, in recent years, Russia has shifted its policy towards its “near abroad,” seeking a more assertive role in the former Soviet territories, including the Central Asian states, Ukraine, Georgia, and the Baltic states. In February 2009, the Kyrgyz government announced that it would close the US airbase at Manas, a decision largely seen as a quid pro quo for the multi-billion dollar Russian aid package previously promised to Kyrgyzstan.

It comes at a critical time for the U.S. and NATO mission in Afghanistan, as growing unrest in Pakistan has put the eastern supply route—through which 75 percent of coalition supplies travel—in jeopardy. The coalition has therefore begun looking into alternate supply routes in Central Asia: Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, and Turkmenistan. (Iran refused to allow NATO supplies to be transported through its territory.)

Moscow has seized the opportunity and has volunteered to transport more coalition supplies through Russia. This increased dependence on Russia would give Moscow more power in its dealings with NATO and greater leverage on issues such as the US’s proposed missile defense shield, the Iranian nuclear program, and the Kremlin’s increasingly aggressive moves in its “near abroad”—Eastern Europe, the Balkans, the Caucasus, and Central Asia.

Economic Interests , Economic Aid, Trade, and Investment

Moscow has not contributed much monetarily to Afghanistan’s reconstruction.

However, Russia has delivered both military and humanitarian aid, and the Kremlin did decide to cancel 90 percent of Afghanistan’s debt (worth US$ ten billion), most of which consisted of military sales to the PDPA regime during the 1970's and 1980's.

Russia continues to be a major arms supplier to Kabul, although most of the weapons and equipment is being purchased with U.S. money.

Russian companies, including state-owned enterprises, have invested in Afghanistan, often winning lucrative contracts.