It's So Obvious, Most Everyone Misses It...

[Hervé]

Did You Ever Watch One Of Those Classic "Westerns"?

If you did, this kind of picture may be familiar:


http://www.espaimon.com/eeuu.jpg
Monument Valley (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monument_Valley)

https://vacationnation.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/all-formations.png


Well, lately, I have been watching some of those "Westerns," fascinated by those vast expanses punctuated with these "buttes" and Mesas...

Anyway, while watching these kind of sceneries, something finally hit me like a few tons of bricks:


"Where did it go???"

"What did it???"


What is it that I am talking about?

China's version, which may give one a clue as to what I am hinting at:


https://www.sott.net/image/s19/390301/full/chrocks.jpg
zhangjiajie (http://china.org.cn/travel/2013-01/31/content_27850402_10.htm)




See?

Isn't it obvious?

No worries if you don't see it... it took me almost a life time to finally become cognizant of the obvious... :facepalm:

[Flash]

ok, please name the obvious for the blind ones like me. thanks (are we talking of helioports or something like that... or else?)


Did You Ever Watch One Of Those Classic "Westerns"?

If you did, this kind of picture may be familiar:


http://www.espaimon.com/eeuu.jpg
Monument Valley (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monument_Valley)

https://vacationnation.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/all-formations.png


Well, lately, I have been watching some of those "Westerns," fascinated by those vast expanses punctuated with these "buttes" and Mesas...

Anyway, while watching these kind of sceneries, something finally hit me like a few tons of bricks:


"Where did it go???"

"What did it???"


What is it that I am talking about?

China's version, which may give one a clue as to what I am hinting at:


https://www.sott.net/image/s19/390301/full/chrocks.jpg
zhangjiajie (http://china.org.cn/travel/2013-01/31/content_27850402_10.htm)




See?

Isn't it obvious?

No worries if you don't see it... it took me almost a life time to finally become cognizant of the obvious... :facepalm:

[Chester]

Stuff growing on the atolls, buttes and mesas.

[indigopete]

I think he's alluding to the massive rock mesa that's no longer there (leaving only those isolated stubs behind as remnants of the ancient rock-plateau expanse).

[DeDukshyn]

 
Near where I grew up there is a butte in the middle of the forest ...

https://s3.amazonaws.com/gs-geo-images/f0b519cc-ae24-4384-a895-b957416da216.jpg

I was told that it is an ancient volcanic core, such an explanation might not fit well for those Chinese towers though ...

[ErtheVessel]

I think maybe he's talking about water. A great ocean of water that carved the buttes over millennia?

[barneythez]

It might take me another life time to see it.

[enigma3]

At one time they were both plateaus. I also see that at least the USA ones have a conical eroded base and a vertical structure above the base. Especially with the Chinese ones I do not see either water or wind erosion. So what created them?? And over how long a period of time? The irregular nature of them suggests they were not "man" made.

In the last pic of the monuments buttes, in the bottom left corner, the lower part of that structure shows water and wind erosion. Above that is simple sedimentary collapse. That is the only pic where I see water or wind erosion. Nothing of that nature in the Chinese pics.

[Satori]

I live in New Mexico and have wandered around the "Four Corners" area of New Mexico, Arizona, Utah and Colorado. There are many of these formations throughout this area. Indeed, Monument Valley is near Kayenta, Arizona, which is not far from Four Corners. It is my understanding that the "monuments" are the remnants of the volcanic core of erstwhile relatively small valcanos. Over the vast expanses of time the more "earthen" outside parts of the valcano succumb to the erosion of rain and wind... leaving behind the volcanic core which is, or was, composed of harder material. Over even more time these monuments too will whittle away.

[Hervé]

I think he's alluding to the massive rock mesa that's no longer there (leaving only those isolated stubs behind as remnants of the ancient rock-plateau expanse).

:cheer2: :first: :cheer2:


That's correct!

What's "obviously" missing is the ginormous volume of sedimentary material that existed, once upon a time, between these buttes... from buttes to buttes!

Because one can follow, from butte to butte, the same sedimentary layers - bottom, middle and top - that are not in between them anymore: it's all gone!!!

I have no answer for where did it all go, except, maybe, into the Gulf of Mexico; nor do I know what abraded/eroded that enormous volume of rock except, maybe, a huge amount of water for a very long time... well, that's a lot of water!

As for China, the rock type being "limestone," it all got dissolved, again, with water action of the "karst (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karst)" type which is best known for sinkhole formation/generation.

Moral of the story: Sometimes, what's right in one's face is what's "missing," what's not there but should be :)

[ghostrider]

In the very ancient past, that area and many others are nuclear blast sites from nuclear wars of our ancestors the old Lyrians... the Gobi desert and Death Valley, etc ...

[The Freedom Train]

I think maybe he's talking about water. A great ocean of water that carved the buttes over millennia?

This was my thinking.

[7alon]

Herve if you are interested, I know just the video you may like to watch. :) It is an episode of the Joe Rogan Experience with Graham Hancock and Randall Carlson. This very long episode discusses the research both Graham and Randall have been doing, discussing the possibility of a cataclysmic impact over 10,000 years ago, which may have hit massive glaciers of ice in the northern hemisphere during the ice age. Geological evidence suggests this impact caused massive floods unlike anything we have ever witnessed, capable of wiping out civilisations, structures and more. Well worth the watch. :clapping:


0H5LCLljJho

[Shannon]

Herve if you are interested, I know just the video you may like to watch. :) It is an episode of the Joe Rogan Experience with Graham Hancock and Randall Carlson. This very long episode discusses the research both Graham and Randall have been doing, discussing the possibility of a cataclysmic impact over 10,000 years ago, which may have hit massive glaciers of ice in the northern hemisphere during the ice age. Geological evidence suggests this impact caused massive floods unlike anything we have ever witnessed, capable of wiping out civilisations, structures and more. Well worth the watch. :clapping:

Something appears to be wrong with the embed :(



It's fine now :)

I was thinking of the exact podcast. For the last few weeks I've been on a Randal Carlson binge and have a john goodman like Crush on him now. Lol!

These two together are great... and he takes these topics so seriously but explains them very well for dummies like me :)

[Eric J (Viking)]

Water has an massive eroding demolition effect, as the Oriville dam has demonstrated.

I also have wondered many times about this Herve. If we had a pole shift there would be massive amounts of sloshing water whilst it settles.

Maybe in the past that's happened?

Viking

[araucaria]

The formation of the Grand Canyon is likely a variant on the same phenomenon: not miles and miles wide, but a mile deep. http://biologos.org/blogs/archive/flood-geology-and-the-grand-canyon-what-does-the-evidence-really-say

[7alon]

Water has an massive eroding demolition effect, as the Oriville dam has demonstrated.

I also have wondered many times about this Herve. If we had a pole shift there would be massive amounts of sloshing water whilst it settles.

Maybe in the past that's happened?

Viking

Pole shifts do happen naturally over a very long period of time. However, maybe it is possible that something in the past hit earth hard enough to create one that occurred drastically faster?

[Lifebringer]

Misty environmental growth on them? Please explain.

[Foxie Loxie]

Very interesting takes on the formations! If we are to believe about The Great Flood...imagine what damage the strength of the water could do! This Flood is mentioned in the Atra-Hasis, as well! :raining: :raining::raining::raining:

[latina]

I have always wonder why is that we need to dig into the soil to find remains of whatever we are looking for (archaeologists anyway). It's like everything got covered with under eight feet of soil. Where all that soil came from? Does that mean that mountains are losing their tops and winds take that soil and redistribute it around the planet? Even in Egypt I'm very convinced if some cubic feet of sand were removed around the archaeological sites we could find all the answers there. There are tunnels under some houses close to the pyramids. Could it be that long time ago everything there was on the surface and after nuclear explosions got covered with sand? Even in the Easter Island they are now excavating around the heads and finding the bodies. That's an island loss in the middle of the ocean, how all those bodies got covered with soil? As to these buttes some theorize they are stumps of gigantic trees from a very remote past and a lot of them look like that (I'm not saying they are).

[Hervé]

Thank you all for your interest and contributions :)

According to Wikipedia:
Monument Valley
Geography and geology (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monument_Valley)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/af/Colorado_Plateaus_map.png

The area is part of the Colorado Plateau (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_Plateau). The elevation of the valley floor ranges from 5,000 to 6,000 feet (1,500 to 1,800 m) above sea level. The floor is largely siltstone (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siltstone) of the Cutler Group (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutler_Group), or sand derived from it, deposited by the meandering rivers that carved the valley. The valley's vivid red color comes from iron oxide (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_oxide) exposed in the weathered siltstone (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siltstone). The darker, blue-gray rocks in the valley get their color from manganese oxide (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manganese_oxide).

The buttes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butte) are clearly stratified (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_strata), with three principal layers. The lowest layer is the Organ Rock Shale (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutler_Group), the middle is de Chelly Sandstone (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutler_Group), and the top layer is the Moenkopi Formation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moenkopi_Formation) capped by Shinarump Conglomerate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinarump_Conglomerate). The valley includes large stone structures including the famed "Eye of the Sun".
That the buttes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butte) are clearly stratified (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_strata) is indicative that the stratification occurred as a sedimentation process in a water environment such as a sea or an ocean and which are now found atop the elevated Colorado Plateau (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_Plateau) from an ancient ocean continental shelf or continental sea basin:
One of the most geologically intriguing features of the Colorado Plateau (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_Plateau#Geology) is its remarkable stability. Relatively little rock deformation such as faulting (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fault_%28geology%29) and folding (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fold_%28geology%29) has affected this high, thick crustal block within the last 600 million years or so. In contrast, provinces that have suffered severe deformation surround the plateau.
[...]
By 600 million years ago North America had been leveled off to a remarkably smooth surface.

Throughout the Paleozoic Era, tropical seas periodically inundated the Colorado Plateau region. Thick layers of limestone, sandstone, siltstone, and shale were laid down in the shallow marine waters. During times when the seas retreated, stream deposits and dune sands were deposited or older layers were removed by erosion. Over 300 million years passed as layer upon layer of sediment accumulated.

It was not until the upheavals that coincided with the formation of the supercontinent Pangea (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pangea) began about 250 million years ago that deposits of marine sediment waned and terrestrial deposits dominate.
[...]
Later a vast desert (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert) formed the Navajo and Temple Cap formations and dry near-shore environment formed the Carmel (see geology of the Zion and Kolob canyons area (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geology_of_the_Zion_and_Kolob_canyons_area) for details).

The area was again covered by a warm shallow sea when the Cretaceous Seaway (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cretaceous_Seaway) opened in late Mesozoic time. The Dakota Sandstone and the Tropic Shale were deposited in the warm shallow waters of this advancing and retreating seaway. Several other formations were also created but were mostly eroded (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erosion) following two major periods of uplift.
[...]
Tectonic activity resumed in Mid Cenozoic time and started to unevenly uplift and slightly tilt the Colorado Plateau region and the region to the west some 20 million years ago (as much as 3 kilometers of uplift occurred). Streams had their gradient (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stream_gradient) increased and they responded by downcutting (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downcutting) faster. Headward erosion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headward_erosion) and mass wasting (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_wasting) helped to erode cliffs back into their fault-bounded plateaus, widening the basins in-between. Some plateaus have been so severely reduced in size this way that they become mesas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesa) or even buttes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butte). Monoclines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monocline) form as a result of uplift bending the rock units. Eroded monoclines leave steeply tilted resistant rock called a hogback and the less steep version is a cuesta.
[...]
Eventually, the great block of Colorado Plateau crust rose a kilometer higher than the Basin and Range. As the land rose, the streams responded by cutting ever deeper stream channels. The most well-known of these streams, the Colorado River (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_River_%28US%29), began to carve the Grand Canyon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Canyon) less than 6 million years ago in response to sagging caused by the opening of the Gulf of California (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_California) to the southwest.

The Pleistocene (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleistocene) epoch brought periodic ice ages (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age) and a cooler, wetter climate. This increased erosion at higher elevations with the introduction of alpine glaciers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpine_glacier) while mid-elevations were attacked by frost wedging (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frost_wedging) and lower areas by more vigorous stream scouring. Pluvial (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluvial) lakes also formed during this time. Glaciers and pluvial lakes disappeared and the climate warmed and became drier with the start of Holocene (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene) epoch.
I don't have any grand explanations/theories for the "obvious" that a huge amount of rock material was once there and has now gone "missing :)

As for the flash floods explanation of the Grand Canyon, there is this big stumbling block to it:


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/7f/b4/a8/7fb4a8cbfa2b952f8ef19cdda89fb4bf.jpg


http://grandcanyon.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/horseshoe-bend-2.jpg
Horseshoe Bend Arizona (https://grandcanyon.com/planning/east-planning/horseshoe-bend-the-intimate-grand-canyon-experience/)

http://www.airpano.ru/files/Goosenecks-Utah-USA/images/image1.jpg

http://americanindian.net/utah2006/goosnecks.jpg

http://geology.utah.gov/wp-content/uploads/Goosenecks4-1030x528.jpg
The Goosenecks (http://geology.utah.gov/map-pub/survey-notes/geosights/goosenecks-of-the-san-juan-river/) of the San Juan River (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Juan_River_(Colorado_River)), San Juan County, Utah


... that's the preservation of meanders... which shouldn't be there but punched through in the case of a powerful flash flood carving up the Colorado River (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_River) bed.

The above pictures show that said rivers preserved the initial meanders; it just deepened it right on the spot of the original footprint.

[araucaria]

Thanks Hervé, good point. Meanders are an interesting phenomenon, associated with sluggish water with hardly any gradient, such as deltas: the exact opposite of flash floods. They take the line of least resistance, which would mean that once a river bed has been begun, they will naturally continue along that lower path of least resistance; this habit forming so that a river may hit harder ground than it would have done at a higher point, but depth comes first. Crossing a delta, on the other hand, nothing is carved in stone, since it is all sand and pretty much levelling up all the time, hence no course is better than any other and river beds tend to wander. I read somewhere years ago that the relationship between the distance covered by meanders and a straight line averages out equal to pi, meaning that a river will go round in circles just to ensure minimum resistance to its flow (the same principle is at work in a pulley). Flooding on the other hand will take the shortest route, which may even at times be vertically upwards, working against gravity. The difference lies in the amount of energy involved, which is inversely proportional to the time available. So I would agree that meandering river beds are totally incompatible with catastrophist theories.

[animovado]

Looking at the pictures you posted and the question of where all this rock has been gone and the huge amount of water that eroded the lands, I remembered Frank Waters "Book of the Hopi" and Joseph F. Blumrichs "Kásskara and the seven worlds". There is no english or french edition of the latter, just the german (ironically it's translated from the American), but you'll find here (http://www.antonparks.com/main.php?lang=en&page=atlantis_mu) an english and an french excerpt.
In this book the hopi elder explains how their fourth world, the americas of today, emerged from the ocean and has been settled from South America and how the Wisconsin glaciation prevented migration from the north. Both natural phenomena include lots of water (http://scalgo.com/live/global?center=-10475904.0%2C5047697.7&zoom=5&tool=zoom&lrs=basic%2Cglobal%2Fhydrosheds%3Adem%2Cglobal%2Fhydrosheds%3Awatersheds%2Cglobal%2Fhydrosheds%3Asea-levels%2Cplaces&flooding=0).

[Hervé]

[...]
Because one can follow, from butte to butte, the same sedimentary layers - bottom, middle and top - that are not in between them anymore: it's all gone!!!

I have no answer for where did it all go, except, maybe, into the Gulf of Mexico; nor do I know what abraded/eroded that enormous volume of rock except, maybe, a huge amount of water for a very long time... well, that's a lot of water!
[...]
About that water, here is a very interesting tidbit from a P. Lescaudron article I posted here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?p=1169912#post1169912) (<---):


[...]

While researching the topic of the frozen mammoths, I discovered an unexpected anomaly. The Younger Dryas was a 1400-year global cooling period (see red curve on the right) which led to an increase in the size of ice sheets.


https://www.sott.net/image/s20/409741/medium/sea_level_temp_YD.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s20/409741/full/sea_level_temp_YD.jpg)
Sea level VS global temperature (20000BP-Now)


However during the same time (13000BP-11500BP) sea levels rose by about 20 meters (RisingSeas:Past,Present,FutureByVivienGornitz) (from -70 to -50m).

Cooling usually means an increase in ice sheet size that leads to a drop in sea level (the sea water being transformed into ice). Yet during the Younger Dryas, the exact opposite happened.

Where did all this extra water come from?

[...]

... the above basically means that water evaporated from oceans got trapped within ice sheets and glaciers, hence not re-circulated back into oceans which would normally lead to a drop of oceans level.

So, not only was there enough ADDITIONAL water to compensate for the frozen water trapped in ice sheets but more than enough to raise ocean levels by 20 meters on top of the removed water!

Hmmmm... maybe there is something to NASA's insistence in considering comets as being balls of "dirty ice"...

[Jake]

http://energyfanatics.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/devils-tower.jpg

i was thinking they look like giant petrified trees,, very ancient...

jake

[Hervé]

Dry Falls – Video

By Robert (https://www.iceagenow.info/author/xilef/) August 15, 2017 (https://www.iceagenow.info/dry-falls-video/)

Nick on the Rocks –

One of the largest waterfalls in the history of earth.

Ten times the combined flow of all the rivers on earth.


BnYjRtos6L8
_________________________

[Hervé]

[...]
About that water, here is a very interesting tidbit from a P. Lescaudron article I posted here (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?p=1169912#post1169912) (<---):


[...]
While researching the topic of the frozen mammoths, I discovered an unexpected anomaly. The Younger Dryas was a 1400-year global cooling period (see red curve on the right) which led to an increase in the size of ice sheets.


https://www.sott.net/image/s20/409741/medium/sea_level_temp_YD.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s20/409741/full/sea_level_temp_YD.jpg)
Sea level VS global temperature (20000BP-Now)


However during the same time (13000BP-11500BP) sea levels rose by about 20 meters (RisingSeas:Past,Present,FutureByVivienGornitz) (from -70 to -50m).

Cooling usually means an increase in ice sheet size that leads to a drop in sea level (the sea water being transformed into ice). Yet during the Younger Dryas, the exact opposite happened.

Where did all this extra water come from?
[...]
Regarding this water level anomaly, Pierre Lescaudron expanded quite a bit on it in this long but comprehensive and excellent new article:
Did Earth Steal Martian Water? (https://www.sott.net/article/420386-Did-Earth-Steal-Martian-Water#)

Pierre Lescaudron Sott.net (https://www.sott.net/article/420386-Did-Earth-Steal-Martian-Water#)
Sat, 14 Sep 2019 18:31 UTC
Also reposted here: Re: Bolides, Comets, Asteroids, Meteors And Falling Skies (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?88088-Bolides-Comets-Asteroids-Meteors-And-Falling-Skies&p=1314118&viewfull=1#post1314118)

[Ratszinger]

Electric universe theory.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAUvesyvZ3o