Cryptids and environmentalism, anyone?

[everydaypsyche]

Hello, all! I am very glad to join you here at Project Avalon and look forward to contributing to the forums here. I am a graduate student working on my final paper before I finish my M.A. in Folklore. I wanted to ask you a few questions. Since I am writing a paper on this subject, could I use your responses in the paper? I won't use your name or image (or anyone else's), just your responses to the questions here. If that’s okay with you let me know in your response. Though many researchers consider online forums fair game, I want my intentions clear, and I don’t want to violate anyone’s privacy. I can even post the final paper to the forum and continue the discussion.

Hey! I commented below, but thought the clarification would best be served up here:

Cryptids are a broad category. As far as I'm concerned, anything from Sasquatch and brownies to fairies and dragons are fair game. I'm kind of at the beginnings of all this, so I'm open to hearing about whatever experiences people want to share. My primary work at the moment is the study of belief systems, so I'd rather be more open than constrictive. Tell me what you think! The more detailed the better. Your experiences discussing, researching, searching relevant to cryptids are both welcome and appreciated. (Complete sentences are preferable, but share whatever you want to share and however you feel most confident.)




In your opinion, how do cryptids keep themselves concealed?
Do they conceal themselves intentionally? For what reason?
Do human beings pose a threat to cryptids? In what ways?
In general, are human–cryptid interactions peaceful, dangerous, a mixture of the two?
Do you enjoy films (or other media) about cryptids? What kinds?
How does this kind of popular media influence people's perceptions of cryptids?
Do you these films tend to anthropomorphize the creature? (manner, form, etc.)
Have you ever personally sought out a cryptid? What happened?
Have you ever spontaneously seen a cryptid? In what context?
Do you believe cryptids are a species that developed naturally or are they the result of otherworldly intervention?
Do you consider yourself an environmentalist?
How does your stance on environmentalism impact your views on cryptids?
What kinds of environmentalist agendas can benefit cryptids in the wild?


Edit:

Per Bill Ryan's suggestions, I'm going to add a few here.

Do you believe some authorities are fully aware of the existence of some cryptids, but for some reason are keeping this classified?
If so, which cryptids do you think may already be known, recognized, and possibly already studied by some government or agency scientists?
If so, what might be the reasons for the secrecy?

[The Freedom Train]

- In your opinion, how do cryptids keep themselves concealed?

My best guess is that they generally exist in a different dimension, or in a higher frequency band than our physical senses can perceive.

- Do they conceal themselves intentionally? For what reason?

Yes. Maybe so that we don't kill them? We have a way of shooting first and asking questions later.

- Do human beings pose a threat to cryptids? In what ways?

See above. After all, look at what we are doing to our own people - by that I mean a minority are the masterminds behind the global genocide agenda but there is a general consensus on fear of the unknown and we have not been taught to be aware of other life forms - fear in an unawakened individual could lead to hasty and fatal actions as a means of self defense. If their presence were common knowledge I would imagine that they would also be targets for culling.

- In general, are human–cryptid interactions peaceful, dangerous, a mixture of the two?

I am guessing it depends. If somehow a person who wasn't ready to see a cryptid saw one and got scared, things could get ugly.

- Do you enjoy films (or other media) about cryptids? What kinds?

At first, I couldn't think of any. I saw the movie Legend with Tom Cruise - that was pretty good. And then there are the Harry Potter movies, which my daughter and I both enjoyed, being fans of the books. The Lord of the Rings books were awesome I grew up with them - the movies were okay, a little overly dramatic for my liking.

- How does this kind of popular media influence people's perceptions of cryptids?

They don't seem to shine an unfavorable light on them, IMO, but I am not sure if it makes many people wonder if maybe they might be real. Perhaps showing them in a fictional way perpetuates the idea that they are mythical, fictional creatures.

- Have you ever personally sought out a cryptid? What happened?

It was not intentional, but once I saw a faerie in the woods. It looked exactly like the brownies in the movie Willow. It was a little man dressed in animals furs crouching on a large Boulder, looking at me. I was completely sober. It was like I was looking at a squirrel - it was a solid, very real, tiny man. I would have thought it was a hallucination, except my friend was with me, and saw him as well. I spent several days after that in shock - my sense of reality had just been shattered.

- Have you ever spontaneously seen a cryptid? In what context?

Oh, see above.

- Do you believe cryptids are a species that developed naturally or are they the result of otherworldly intervention?

Perhaps they are the earth's indigenous species, and we are the aliens.

- Do you consider yourself an environmentalist?

I suppose so. I started an environmental education non profit in 2007 and was a founding member of a local community gardening network in 2008. I regularly compost and recycle. I do my best to live lightly.

- How does your stance on environmentalism impact your views on cryptids?

Perhaps because I am more of a wish to live harmoniously in my environment, I am more apt to believe that these creatures mean no harm? I am interested in healing the world, and in healing myself, and work on myself with diet and meditation, for example. My small part in my lifestyle choices reflects a desire to live lightly. I struggle with the westernized civilization because it is all borne of destruction. Consider building a new house - clearing the land, and the harvesting of resources for construction. The building of roads, etc. Let alone our diets and the resources required to supply foodstuffs to the masses - transportation, and chemical sprays and preservatives for shelf life and food preservation, pest abatement. I normally shy away from saying I am an "environmentalist" because I see how backwards the way we live is, and I feel like I am a far cry from truly living up to the goal of living in harmony with my environment. I also don't appreciate the judgy attitudes that oftentimes go along with the lifestyle. In my opinion the only person who has the right to a moral high ground in that department is one who has eschewed all unnatural man made goods and is living fully in the natural environment - of course I would not expect such a person to be a snob, so problem solved there.

- What kinds of environmentalist agendas can benefit cryptids in the wild?

Ones that involve the ending of capitalism's endless growth, the preservation of the wilds, and the rewilding of humanity.

[Justplain]

Hi Everydaypsyche, i have only researched a bit on Sasquatch, so when i answer below, keep that in mind:

In your opinion, how do cryptids keep themselves concealed?
- reportedly Sasquatch have advanced psychic abilities, including cloaking and possibly teleportation, and likely telepathy

Do they conceal themselves intentionally? For what reason?
- yes, for self preservation

Do human beings pose a threat to cryptids? In what ways?
- very definitely, trophy hunters and corrupt government agencies hunt Sasquatch

In general, are human–cryptid interactions peaceful, dangerous, a mixture of the two?
- all of these, depending on the circumstances

Do you enjoy films (or other media) about cryptids? What kinds?
- most definitely, especially peaceful investigation

How does this kind of popular media influence people's perceptions of cryptids?
- good research documentaries help the public better understand

Have you ever personally sought out a cryptid? What happened?
- not really, not ever had an encounter

Have you ever spontaneously seen a cryptid? In what context?
- no

Do you believe cryptids are a species that developed naturally or are they the result of otherworldly intervention?
- i believe Sasquatch were developed, from what i've read, from a species of lemur

Do you consider yourself an environmentalist?
- not really, but am sympathetic

How does your stance on environmentalism impact your views on cryptids?
- there should be enough clean habitat for all nature's creatures to thrive

What kinds of environmentalist agendas can benefit cryptids in the wild?
- leave enough habitat for them and protect them from hunting, etc.

[everydaypsyche]

Thanks for your response! I think that the films & the media choose two versions of cryptids. There's the "scary" movie, like The Hollow (2015) that seem to be some kind of warning that cryptids are a naturally destructive force. Possibly that is a projection of our own feelings about our own monstrous destruction that you point out. There's this other side though--mostly in kid's films like the remake of Pete's Dragon, The Water Horse, Fern Gully, or E.T.--where kids have a privileged relationship with the creatures, protecting them from adult threats. It could be an exercise in building little environmentalists, as many children's books and films build implicit and explicit expectations for the world--acculturation.

[DeDukshyn]

 
I'll take part as well, I'll try to make it interesting ...





In your opinion, how do cryptids keep themselves concealed? Depends on the cryptid ... most are just rare and generally avoid humans. Some may have physical abilities of strength and speed which helps the get away quickly upon sighting. Some have natural or possibly self created camouflage and some perhaps can psychically alter their appearance in the mind of the beholder ("psychic camouflage")



Do they conceal themselves intentionally? For what reason? Mostly yes. Like many animals (lynx, wolverines), interactions with humans is something to be avoided. Humans are far too fearful which makes us incredibly unpredictable from individual to individual.


Do human beings pose a threat to cryptids? In what ways? Yes, mostly due to our fear -- human fear is often "resolved" with harm or killing. Also, to a lesser extent, trophy hunters. Military / government / (even private) research, DNA extraction, experimentation, etc.


In general, are human–cryptid interactions peaceful, dangerous, a mixture of the two? I never interacted with one, but if the cryptid cannot "read" a peaceful response in a human, anything may happen, but if it can read "peace" in the human, then an interaction of consequence may occur.


Do you enjoy films (or other media) about cryptids? What kinds? Yes indeed, because anything is possible in this arena. I recall liking a rather low budget movie called "mimic".


How does this kind of popular media influence people's perceptions of cryptids? Maybe gets a few people thinking about it a bit more - so maybe slightly positive.


Have you ever personally sought out a cryptid?What happened?
No. Nothing.


Have you ever spontaneously seen a cryptid? In what context? Can't think of one ...


Do you believe cryptids are a species that developed naturally or are they the result of otherworldly intervention? One of two --- Naturally developed, or, remnants of ancient "human" intervention - pre-history. Possibly some somewhat "trans-dimesional" ...


Do you consider yourself an environmentalist? Slightly, yes.


How does your stance on environmentalism impact your views on cryptids? Habitat for Earth creatures is shrinking everywhere. No matter the creature.


What kinds of environmentalist agendas can benefit cryptids in the wild? Most of them. Preserving very large areas for natural habitat without human impact are key.

[Bill Ryan]

Good thread, and welcome to the forum! :star:

A comment, and a suggestion for three further questions:


What's a cryptid — in the context you intend? Is it an unknown animal (like the Gorilla and Panda were before being officially recognized, and maybe now the Sasquatch/Yeti, lake and sea monsters, and giant snakes?)... or are we also talking about faeries, dogmen, mothmen, and chupacabras?

Three more important and interesting questions, I'd suggest:


Do you believe some authorities are fully aware of the existence of some cryptids, but for some reason are keeping this classified?
If so, which cryptids do you think may already be known, recognized, and possibly already studied by some government or agency scientists?
If so, what might be the reasons for the secrecy?

[everydaypsyche]

Thanks so much for your suggestions! I'm kind of at the beginnings of all this, so I'm open to hearing about whatever experiences people want to share. As you point out, it's a very broad category. I didn't want anyone to feel like I was limiting or delegitimizing an experience because of a limited definition if that makes sense. My primary work at the moment is the study of belief systems, so I'd rather be more open than constrictive.

[DeDukshyn]

Thanks so much for your suggestions! I'm kind of at the beginnings of all this, so I'm open to hearing about whatever experiences people want to share. As you point out, it's a very broad category. I didn't want anyone to feel like I was limiting or delegitimizing an experience because of a limited definition if that makes sense. My primary work at the moment is the study of belief systems, so I'd rather be more open than constrictive.

Just come out with it, then, all across the table. :)

I assumed by the lack of detail that Bill indicated as important that you were either gathering info for fiction or, as you suggested, just looking into people's responses as info gathering. Tell us the broader story behind what you are doing. :) Sounds quite interesting!

[mgray]

A Masters in Folklore, not there's a marketable degree. I hope you are not burdened by student loans?


 
I'll use this as a template for my answers


[QUOTE]
In your opinion, how do cryptids keep themselves concealed? Could be dimensional or avoidance through exceptional sensors.



Do they conceal themselves intentionally? For what reason? Yes. For safety. I am sure that while some Native Americans call the Big Foot a people, there were killings on both sides. Today there would be a high price on a body.


Do human beings pose a threat to cryptids? In what ways? Yes, see above.


In general, are human–cryptid interactions peaceful, dangerous, a mixture of the two? Cannot be sure of that having no direct knowledge of an interaction by anyone I know.


Do you enjoy films (or other media) about cryptids? What kinds? N/A


How does this kind of popular media influence people's perceptions of cryptids? N/A



Have you ever personally sought out a cryptid?What happened?
No.


Have you ever spontaneously seen a cryptid? In what context? No


Do you believe cryptids are a species that developed naturally or are they the result of otherworldly intervention? Not sure


Do you consider yourself an environmentalist? Somewhat


How does your stance on environmentalism impact your views on cryptids? Perseveration of lands would probably be the only environmentalism thought I have that would impact critics


What kinds of environmentalist agendas can benefit cryptids in the wild? See above

Good luck with you research and welcome

[Spellbound]

Do you enjoy films (or other media) about cryptids? What kinds?
[/LIST]

I do enjoy a good cryptid flick. There's a ton of Bigfoot movies out there dating back decades and I've seen most of them. The only Squatch flick that I've ever seen where Bigfoot is not referred to in a negative / monster type of manner is a You Tube movie about Bigfoot from 3 years ago called Howls.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfXtWOZusVM

As for flicks on other cryptids...Mothman Prophesies with Richard Gere was pretty good.

Dave - Toronto

[boja]

I would suggest as a good starting point for serious study of this subject,

Firstly, check out the work of DR MELBA KETCHUM at http://sasquatchgenomeproject.org/

Secondly check out the work of DAVID PAULIDES at http://www.canammissing.com/missing_411.html

In my humble opinion, these are 2 serious researchers currently working on this subject.

Clearly THERE IS A PHENOMENON HERE WHICH REQUIRES SCIENTIFIC STUDY.

Yes, the US government is fully aware of it, and is trying to hide it.
Just as with UFOs and ETs.

Here in England we have a man called Dr David Clarke who did a PhD in "Folklore".
Unfortunately, the BBC use him as their official DEBUNKER for anything & everything paranormal.
Perhaps they pay well !

[Bill Ryan]

Yes, the US government is fully aware of it, and is trying to hide it.
Just as with UFOs and ETs.



For sure. In this extraordinary account (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?38338-Face-of-Bigfoot&p=401578&viewfull=1#post401578), of the 1999 Nevada Battle Mountain forest fire, an adult Bigfoot was badly burned and emerged from the forest in front of all the firefighters. A vet and a medic were both summoned. The vet attended to it first, but withdrew, feeling the creature was human, and not an animal. It was treated by the medic. The creature was then transported to another location, and everyone involved was sworn to secrecy.

I'm convinced this story is fully accurate. The significance there (apart from the cover-up by the Bureau of Land Management) is that it's a human, not an animal. That of course exactly corresponds with the recent DNA analysis by Dr Melba Ketchum (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?89321-The-story-of-Zana-Zanya-Zena-a-female-Alma--wild-man--captured-in-1850-in-Georgia&p=1052282&viewfull=1#post1052282).

[everydaypsyche]

Thanks for the recommendations! I'll check them out. I don't come from a scientific research background. My bent is more inclined towards humanistic study and belief systems, so my primary research is actually responses to the questionnaire above. Everyone has opinions and experiences, and I find those much more interesting than empirical research

[william r sanford72]

Have you ever spontaneously seen a cryptid? In what context?

Yes.2 moments stand out the first and most recent was about 7 months ago.my son awakend me around 2am to tell me some thing like a huge rabbit was scratching on the window in his bedroom and he was somewhat alarmed.I went to the window and only caught a glimpse of the back end of what did appear to be a abnormal sized rabbit..as the tail was the size of a softball.not sure what it was.Strange detail is the dogs....they didn't bark chase or become alarmed..went outside to look around and never found a trace.yah I know how it sounds...giant rabbits.

The second one was an owl that was also abnormal in size as in around 5 foot tall.now the owl didn't scare me tho it did scare my wife as I had ample time to study the creature and even went into the house woke my spouse brought her outside to see it.Strange thing is at first she seen a gargoyle like creature with very red eyes....and become very frightend so much so that she froze...because this wasn't a creature that was far off in the woods or even a brief encounter..it sat on a large dead oak branch about 10 foot off the ground tho it was dark.I was able to study it for about 10 min when I decided to get thee wife so she could see it because I wasn't sure what I was looking at and just having another person see it.. and about another 10 min with my wife when I decided to approach it to make sure we were seeing what we were realy seeing...for some reason I decided against better judgment to get as close as poss.at about 10 feet I raised my hands to show I meant no harm when it lifted from the branch and took off. I recall hearing a gasp from my spouse as the wing span was something to behold.The owl just seemed to damn big to fly...

Sorry for the writing spelling puncts..I talk somewhat better than write.

I have no set beliefs as far who what etc..i have no conclusions...I can only offer what I observed.There have been other strange events with orbs and what looked like glowing insects that reminded me of a cross between a dragon fly and lighting bug that were very close to the ground.The insides were transparent and were around 6 to 7 inches long.I could make out what appeared to bee a spirial like ribbon that reminded me of a dna strand in the abdomen of said insect/creature

Ok now I'm done and will say sorry yet again for the cringe worthy writing skills:facepalm:
and hope this helps with your paper and research.

:blushing:
William.

[Bill Ryan]

In your opinion, how do cryptids keep themselves concealed?
Some of them are rare, and some of them are cunning. (And, there are vast tracts of wilderness still where humans rarely go.)



Do they conceal themselves intentionally? For what reason?
All wild animals, justifiably afraid of or not trusting humans, conceal themselves intentionally!



Do human beings pose a threat to cryptids? In what ways?
Humans post a threat to every living thing on earth.



In general, are human–cryptid interactions peaceful, dangerous, a mixture of the two?
Peaceful. (I don't count David Paulides' reports, which may be of another phenomenon entirely.)



Do you enjoy films (or other media) about cryptids? What kinds?
Yes. But documentaries only.



How does this kind of popular media influence people's perceptions of cryptids?
If you mean fictionalized films, they're likely to distort opinion.



Do you [think] these films tend to anthropomorphize the creature? (manner, form, etc.)
No idea... I've not watched any. (As a researcher and serious student, I feel there's no reason for me to.)



Have you ever personally sought out a cryptid? What happened?
Yes... see this thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?93672-Another-vicarious-adventure-and-another-Avalon-Cairn--for-the-Wawa-Grande-this-time-). (These creatures are pretty much in my back yard, so to speak.) No contact yet. My next expedition is pretty soon... just waiting for a weather window.



Have you ever spontaneously seen a cryptid? In what context?
No. (But I did see what looked like Yeti tracks in the Himalayas in Dec 1981.)



Do you believe cryptids are a species that developed naturally or are they the result of otherworldly intervention?
Well, what's a 'cryptid'? (Serious question... it's important to define what you mean!)
If it's a flesh-and-blood animal, they developed naturally.



Do you consider yourself an environmentalist?
Another term that needs defining!
Am I campaigner? No (apart from maintaining this forum).
Am I passionate about environmental issues? Yes, absolutely.



How does your stance on environmentalism impact your views on cryptids?
They should be left alone... I rue the day when we see a Sasquatch in a cage. (I'm no fan of zoos, even the best ones, though I recognize that endangered species do have to be protected in an organized way.)



What kinds of environmentalist agendas can benefit cryptids in the wild?
I have no idea.

I'll also take the liberty of answering my own added questions (see my post #6 above (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?97266-Cryptids-and-environmentalism-anyone&p=1147998&viewfull=1#post1147998))


Do you believe some authorities are fully aware of the existence of some cryptids, but for some reason are keeping this classified?
In the case of Bigfoot/Sasquatch, absolutely. See this extraordinary account (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?38338-Face-of-Bigfoot&p=401578&viewfull=1#post401578), of the 1999 Nevada Battle Mountain forest fire, where an adult Bigfoot was badly burned and emerged from the forest in front of all the firefighters. A vet and a medic were both summoned. The vet attended to it first, but withdrew, feeling the creature was human, and not an animal. It was treated by the medic. The creature was then transported to another location, and everyone involved was sworn to secrecy.



If so, which cryptids do you think may already be known, recognized, and possibly already studied by some government or agency scientists?
Bigfoot/Sasquatch — I am personally certain.



If so, what might be the reasons for the secrecy?
Exactly as per UFO/ET secrecy... the public would not feel confident if it were admitted that there were very large (and possibly potentially frightening) animals in the North American forests which the authorities could do absolutely nothing about whatsoever.

[everydaypsyche]

Thanks so much for the time you took to respond! I really appreciate it, Bill. I do have a follow-up for you if you have the time. Throughout this thread, there is a big mixture of experiential data (stories people tell about their own or others' experiences) and empirical data (DNA and other forensic data like footprints). I consider photographs to be somewhere in between the two because the falsifiability** of photographs is often inconclusive with today's photo-editing software (or even without it if you remember the Cottingley Fairy Episode!).

From interviews that I have done, I see a range of people who find one more convincing than another.

Do you personally favor empirical or experiential data?

**The ability to prove something either true or false.

[Bill Ryan]

Do you personally favor empirical or experiential data?



Both. In a court of law, forensic evidence can be used to convict a murderer, but so can eye-witness testimony. (Legally, that's proof, too.)

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Interesting study, and the best of luck with it! As you are primarily concerned with belief systems, I'll add my own, to the key questions, for variety's sake, as they may (and usually do) differ from others.

-- Do you believe cryptids are a species that developed naturally or are they the result of otherworldly intervention?
I would say the vast majority of what would be called a cryptid, or an as yet unidentified species, are purely natural. Even the fairy could be categorized as such, but I would view those as 'elementals', or nature energies, and not a 'species' exactly. But Bigfoot, the Sasquatch, that is something pretty unique in my opinion. I do not believe they are naturally selected species indigenous to this planet. There are many eye-witness accounts of anomalous lights in the sky, bona fide UFO activity, seen in the presence or vicinity of Bigfoot sightings. I do think there is an ET connection - at least with some types of the Bigfoot or 'wildman' phenomenon, particularly those in North American.

I am inclined to believe - this is not though, I'm sorry to say, based on anything substantial, it's just a theory - that Bigfoot is a kind of refugee, brought here from another (dead or dying) planet, by advanced extra-terrestrials in order to preserve their kind. Perhaps they are the result of alien seeding on that world, and are a developing species just as Humans are (in my opinion). Earth was either similar enough to their homeworld that they could easily integrate here, or they were adapted to suit our planetary conditions. But I do quite believe they are not originally of this earth.

-- Do they conceal themselves intentionally? For what reason?
The Sasquatch lives in harmony with its environment. Humans do not. Humans are destructive, hostile, and ignorant. It is no wonder that they would want to hide from us at all costs. They are in tune with their surroundings and all living things. They are highly sensitive, emotionally and spiritually. Just for self-preservation, I think they are hard-wired to avoid human contact.

-- In your opinion, how do cryptids keep themselves concealed?
I have two answers to that.

One, they are telepathic beings. They can sense human presence long before humans are aware of them. This gives them plenty of time to hide. Where they hide is probably underground, in natural tunnels and cave systems. They also limit their movements above ground during daylight hours, travelling and hunting mostly by night when there is less chance of human discovery. Bigfoot is also scarce in population, living in small communities, maybe as individual families. (All these factors could explain why encounters are relatively rare).

Two, there are a number of testimonies where a Sasquatch has vanished in more mysterious ways. I suspect that, given their extra-terrestrial origins and their high level awareness and sensitivity, they have the ability to shift or alter their vibration, and phase out of our perceivable dimension and into another. An extreme ability such as this would make it effectively impossible to track, confine, or capture a Sasquatch that did not wish to be tracked, confined, or captured.

-- Do you believe some authorities are fully aware of the existence of some cryptids, but for some reason are keeping this classified?
Yes, completely.

-- If so, what might be the reasons for the secrecy?
If Sasquatch is not native to this planet, then as technically 'an alien' it is reason number one why the government would want it kept secret. But even if it weren't, it still has a definite connection with the UFO phenomenon. Anything thus associated is subject to secrecy.

And even if it wasn't alien, and had no connection at all to UFOs, there is still a very good reason to keep it secret. If sasquatch were captured and studied, it could shed light on actual Human origins and Human evolution that are incompatible with the comfortable, 'official' Darwinian version of the story. It would turn anthropology, and well as religion on its head, and open up a right can of worms. And that is something they do not want!

[TargeT]

Thanks so much for your suggestions! I'm kind of at the beginnings of all this, so I'm open to hearing about whatever experiences people want to share. As you point out, it's a very broad category. I didn't want anyone to feel like I was limiting or delegitimizing an experience because of a limited definition if that makes sense. My primary work at the moment is the study of belief systems, so I'd rather be more open than constrictive.

A budding Chaos mage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_magic)... enjoy your ride, belief systems are everywhere and a very powerful tool when understood.





Do you personally favor empirical or experiential data?



Both. In a court of law, forensic evidence can be used to convict a murderer, but so can eye-witness testimony. (Legally, that's proof, too.)

I HEAVILY favor one over the other, memories and recollection never seem very reliabl (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4409058/)e, and we don't even need to get into memory revision etc (https://qz.com/605597/the-dangerous-psychology-of-how-false-confessions-rewrite-witnesses-memories/)...

[everydaypsyche]

Sorry for the late reply! I study belief systems. I'm personally interested in cryptids, so this is the area I chose for my final research project. I noticed that a lot of contemporary films have been using cryptids as a vehicle for discussing environmental issues like deforestation (Ferngully or the remake of Pete's Dragon), testing on the environment or animal testing (E.T. or The Water Horse), or environmental guardians (Pom Poko, Princess Mononoke, or even allegorically in The Lorax). I wanted to see how/if this environmental connection is involved in people's experience, insight, and interpretation of cryptids outside of the cinematic context.

[TargeT]

I wanted to see how/if this environmental connection is involved in people's experience, insight, and interpretation of cryptids outside of the cinematic context.

I think it was a simple case of contextual obfuscation; the cryptids add just enough "mystery" and intrigue to allow the plot to be (sometimes obviously) environmentalist propaganda.

[DeDukshyn]

I wanted to see how/if this environmental connection is involved in people's experience, insight, and interpretation of cryptids outside of the cinematic context.

I think it was a simple case of contextual obfuscation; the cryptids add just enough "mystery" and intrigue to allow the plot to be (sometimes obviously) environmentalist propaganda.

What is that line between genuine environmental concern and awareness raising, and propaganda?

[TargeT]

What is that line between genuine environmental concern and awareness raising, and propaganda?

I'd say it's mostly in the portrayal of the antagonists.

If the antagonists were not shown as polarized (usually comically evil (http://villains.wikia.com/wiki/Hexxus)) and simply criticized for their actions and encouraged to mitigate them... like the ending of ferngully was the clear cutting team altering their lumber harvesting to a more sustainable approach or something similar.

Basically, be "real", "truthful" and helpful in the message.

As it is, most "environmental messages" can easily be considered another divide and conquer tactic.. more polarization, more separation... the same MO is used on so many fronts.

[DeDukshyn]

What is that line between genuine environmental concern and awareness raising, and propaganda?

I'd say it's mostly in the portrayal of the antagonists.

If the antagonists were not shown as polarized (usually comically evil (http://villains.wikia.com/wiki/Hexxus)) and simply criticized for their actions and encouraged to mitigate them... like the ending of ferngully was the clear cutting team altering their lumber harvesting to a more sustainable approach or something similar.

Basically, be "real", "truthful" and helpful in the message.

As it is, most "environmental messages" can easily be considered another divide and conquer tactic.. more polarization, more separation... the same MO is used on so many fronts.

It's just a "right / left" political entity that which you refer, so yes I see that. However, bringing awareness to the issues has to occur first before any talk on "how" can occur, but again I do see the usage of emotional alignment for marketing purposes for the movie itself - but not as much to the extent of "propoganda".

Anyone in their right mind is not going to say that our environment is doing perfectly well and we'll be ok in this area in 100 years (if nothing changes). We live relatively short lives in comparison to the slow detriment to our environment of the last few hundred years (I am talking unsustainable deforestation, improper use of agra land and related chemical poisonings of our land and waters, major industrial pollutions, etc. "Climate change" is a non-issue compared to these things), so we aren't actively seeing the long term effects at all. I am not sure I would label anything that seeks to bring awareness and compassion to sustaining our home as "propoganda", but I might label it, in a similar vein, as "marketing".

[TargeT]

we aren't actively seeing the long term effects at all..

This is perhaps what I get hung up on, I see vilification of industry and the only solutions are very extreme... I think the polarization takes it beyond "awareness raising" and puts it firmly in "divide and conquer" only because you generaly get 3 outcomes from that type of marketing (very good word to describe it).

Rejection
indifference
acceptance

Rejection causes division with those that accept, indifferent causes division with both camps "how can you not care"... it's just too much emotional manipulation for rationality to win through. Then people get more set in their mind sets and further divided (as they run off to their echo chambers for cherry picked data that supports what ever side they support)

I draw a very hard line against manipulation (especially emotional manipulation) so I probably am being a bit extreme in my view here.