Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

[Flash]

What!!!! Uk has 85 sharia courts and Germany uses sharia law!!!!

This is total injustice and blasphemy regarding our own laws and human rights. This is total disrespect of our own societies values and laws.

Who f... allowed this ??? the people???

So British Muslim women do not have the rights to their full inheritance, only half of their brother's, Muslim women in Britain can be beaten up, Muslim women in Britain can be divorced with 3 words, Muslim women in Britain..... and Germany.... etc etc.

Gosh, my own western culture discourages me, it is disgusting.



My question? How does one wake up an entire world that the Jesus Movement was ALSO hijacked & made into another "controlling" institution? :idea:


Theres a LOT of evidence that christianity and islam were practiced side by side, often in the same churches before both religions were perverted by the parasites.
See this fascinating video:
wfqSyFG3fMY

So yes.. clearly all three branches of the abrahamic religion (Islam, Christianity & Judaism) have been split, corrupted and turned against each other.

All the books were burned during the inquisition... our entire history was re-written at that time to what we think to be true now.

This really was the seed that grew into the situation we are at now with islam v the world (or, the world v islam?)

Popular culture encourages this three way divide where ever possible:
xagqiIVW6qk



The statement you made about Sharia law states, being encouraged by government are stated as fact and beyond that provide fuel for anti- Islamic fear.

That is only true for like 1/4th the planet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Application_of_Islamic_law_by_country)

The UK has 85 Sharia courts.

Sharia is part of Germany's private law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_law) through the regulations of the German international private law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_private_law). It applies to people with nationalities from countries using Sharia. (a law that only applies to people from certain countries... hmm... I thought the PC crowd woulda shot that one down on principle).

so.. yeah...

[turiya]

A woman isn't going to be stoned to death for serving someone a pulled pork sandwich, right?

Not today, no.. But we all should be aware of the "totalitarian tip toe"; we have countless historical examples, this is a real tactic and it works.

I wouldn't doubt that it does go on in America. It may not be put on the MSM news. It may be covered over & pushed under the rug by those family members that commit the crime. You may not see it on tv or hear on the radio.

Under Sharia Law, being stoned to death is known as an "honor killing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing)."

Some articles:

Honor killing in America: DOJ report says growing problem is hidden in stats (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/11/10/honor-killing-in-us-justice-department-mulls-guidelines-as-grim-toll-rises.html)
November 10, 2015

UK: Sharia court hands down sentence approving of honor killing (https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/01/uk-sharia-court-hands-down-sentence-of-honor-killing)
January 27, 2017 9:12 am By Christine Williams

It happened right on British soil. This is momentous, but not an aberration. It happened in a British Sharia court in Lancashire. The Plaintiff had been “disrespected” (i.e., dishonored) by a neighbor, so he demanded at the Sharia court that their children marry each other as compensation. Fast forward a bit, it turns out that the children were not happy with the arrangement; after all, they have begun to be enlightened to some degree by living in the free world. The neighbor reneged on his promise. This constituted even more “humiliation” for the Plaintiff: now his kids had also, in his view, been humiliated. So the Plaintiff wanted further compensation for his embarrassment and that of his children: he demanded that his neighbor’s children be killed, because in his eyes, the children were already married and they were thus committing adultery.

The Sharia court approved. The council of elders of this British Sharia court sanctioned honor killing. British Prime Minister Theresa May thinks that “many Britons ‘benefit greatly’ (http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/674489/Home-Secretary-Theresa-May-says-Britain-benefits-Sharia-Law) from Sharia Law.” Most shocking is not the tribal and brutal mentality of these immigrants who have been indiscriminately welcomed in from Sharia states, but the fact that Britain is allowing the practice of Sharia to override its own constitution and principles of human rights. Sharia itself asserts that no other law could stand above it, and British authorities are feeding that mindset.

SOURCE (https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/01/uk-sharia-court-hands-down-sentence-of-honor-killing)




Whatever the case, there should be one rule of law,
I certainly agree, I also think there should be a limited number of laws and they should be written to be easily understood as well as accurate.


Sharia Comes to Great Britain

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-p-l1bNYosc


the hijab shouldn't be allowed

I think perhaps they shouldn't be allowed to be enforced. but your right, it will just stay hidden.. this is a hard one, because the Hijab is just a symptom of a problem, and banning symptoms does nothing for the problem itself.

Yes, hidden like their Sharia Court decisions remain hidden.
ARTICLE:

Iranian American: ‘Sharia Law Is Here in the U.S.' (http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/penny-starr/iranian-american-sharia-law-here-us)
By Penny Starr | February 25, 2015

Journalist & FOX News contributor, Lisa Daftari, spoke at the Heritage Foundation on Feb. 20, 2015. Here's some of what she had to say:

"Sharia law is being followed by practitioners of radical Islam right here in the United States, even if many Americans think of the human rights abuses towards women by these practitioners as something that only takes place in the Middle East and Africa.

"And some might ask why should Americans care about what goes on in those countries?” asked Daftar, whose family fled Iran during the 1979 revolution that overthrew Mohammad Reza Pahlavi and established an Islamic state in the country. “How about tolerance for other practices; respect for Sharia law – the cultural and religious differences?

“Well the answer is it’s not just contained to that part of the world,” Daftari said. “It’s here.


Conservative Women's Network: Lisa Daftari (https://youtu.be/96uKBzfVHJw?t=11m23s)
@11m:23s
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/96uKBzfVHJw/mqdefault.jpg
VIDEO

“It’s in Europe. It’s in our cities. It’s in our places of work. It’s in our schools,” Daftari said. “Yes, Sharia law is here in the U.S., and this too is a war on women.”

Daftari, who spoke at the Conservative Women’s Network at the Heritage Foundation, focused her remarks on what she said is “the real war on women,” including “honor killings” that have taken place in the United States.

“Every year, about 26 women are killed in the U.S. by a relative in the name of family honor,” Daftari said.

She cited two such killings. On Jan. 1, 2008, a man shot his two teenage daughters, Amina and Sarah Said.

“It later came to light that these murders were premeditated as honor killings as retribution for [Amina] rejecting an arranged marriage to a man in Egypt,” Daftari said.

In an essay written in September 2014, Amina’s boyfriend, Joseph Moreno, said the couple hoped to marry and that the father has never been arrested and his whereabouts are unknown.

“In 2011 an Arizona judge sentenced an Iraqi man to more than 34 years in prison, Daftari said. “He ran over his 20-year-old daughter because he claimed she’d become too westernized.”

Faleh Hassan Al-Maleki was found guilty in the killing of his daughter Noor, according to an article posted on AZCentral.com.

Daftari said radical Islam is also being promoted by Muslim groups on college campuses in the U.S., based on her investigative reporting on the phenomenon.

Daftari cited other examples of human rights abuses against women around the globe that she said represent “the real war on women.”

“The real war on women is about the millions of women throughout the Middle East and the continent of Africa who are forced to undergo genital mutilation,” she said. “In 2013, 3.6 million were mutilated in these parts of the world. In Somalia, FGM (female genital mutilations) is at 99 percent.

“That means nearly every single woman,” Daftari said.

“The real war on women is about the many religious minorities who stand firmly behind their faith and beliefs in Muslim-dominated countries – Christians, Jews, Bahi’s and others facing minority taxes, imprisonment, persecution,” she said.

“The real war on women is about the women of Iran who cannot dress as they want, dance as they want, attend the schools or obtain the jobs that they want,” Daftari said. “They cannot file for divorce, even from a violent spouse, and even if they do, custody of all their children will go to the husband.”

Daftari also cited the case of a 26-year-old Iranian woman who was jailed and eventually executed because she fought back against the man who raped her.
CNSnews.com (http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/penny-starr/iranian-american-sharia-law-here-us)

[TargeT]

So British Muslim women do not have the rights to their full inheritance, only half of their brother's, Muslim women in Britain can be beaten up, Muslim women in Britain can be divorced with 3 words, Muslim women in Britain..... and Germany.... etc etc.


That's like the "totalitarian carpet bombing" not "tip toe" ... haha... it's a much more limited (supposedly) version... but I"m sure behind closed doors much of this does go on, but it is not yet officially sanctioned in it's entirety.

no it's not like that, but it's HEADED THAT WAY; the camels nose is under the tent edge in those countries, but the camel isn't in the tent yet (yet....)





HOW did this happen? PC culture (the psychological warfare tool that lets you feel superior for being stupid)

[turiya]

Yes Turiya, I took the video below from one of your post from another thread. I did think it is a must listen for eveyone on one hand, on the other hand, you had much heat on for your points of views, why not taking it on me this time around, and third, I was preparing for work and had not much time for credits and references (but not an excuse)

I thank you for bringing the video to our attention, I would not have found it without you, however, all that is in it, I already knew, had read it, had mostly heard it directly (no hearsay)

You wouldn't have found it otherwise, because I uploaded it to youtube for it to be an "unlisted" video. This is how I know you got it from my 'off-topic' thread. Really not a problem... :)

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Though I do see Islam as a very real threat to western life I agree with Saker that to see it as one large monolithic bogeyman is ridiculous as those who want us terrified of islam go out of their way to people western countries with muslims at the very same time they are frightening us. Here in the U.S. we have the Gulen school movement controversy and obama administration's quiet attempts to encourage supposed commonalities between muslims and american indians particularly for muslims to study american indian tribal governments so they also can formulate autonomy from american law. I won't even touch poor Europe, that deserves it's own thread.

But the continuing saga - create a conflict with two sides, fund both sides, create rubble from the conflict and fashion what you want from the rubble. That is the old, tired meme of our western ruling class. And that's only the main meme, they have their 'tributary' memes. Each time we think we get hip to their game we find another sophisticated twist like a hero is really a proponent or legislation we wanted passed has embedded in it hurtful legislation unbeknownst to us at the time and on and on.

Within the family unit, the one who acts out the most is seen as the problem and this is the one taken to the psychiatrist's office. This is called the "identified patient". But, in truth, the entire family contributes to the dysfunction. The dysfunction of the family is simply being acted out by the identified patient. For this person to heal, the family as a whole must heal. And so it is with the human family.

[Bruno]

I have seen numerous posts on Project Avalon recently about the sexist and abusive practices of Muslims and concerns about Sharia law becoming law in Western Nations. In general I think these concerns are fear mongering. While I do not want to allow Islamic extremists into my country neither do I want Christian extremists. It's not that I don't think people shouldn't be concerned about the ability of Islamic refugees to meld into society and that all people coming into my country of Canada should be willing to share our values. I just find in general that people seem quite hypocritical when they are talking about the poor treatment of Muslim women by their partners in one post and then in another talking about western feminism as a pysop meant to bring down society. You can't have it both ways. My own father who is part Native and who's European ancestors have been here for 5 generations wouldn't let my mother go back to school or work outside the home.

Women in North America are still twice as likely to be killed by their husband or intimate partner as they are by a stranger. In my local news in the past year I recall there was a Muslim father and son that killed the youngest daughter/sister in the family for inappropriate behavior, basically going out with friends unchaperoned. People were naturally outraged. However, there have also been numerous murders of women by their intimate partners by nonmuslims in my area over the past year for situations that are just as ridiculous, like trying to leave an abusive relationship with their partner or dressing like a "****". In my opinion when white men kill their partners or children it is treated like a sad mental health lapse not a problem with the core values of our culture.

I guess what I am trying to say is that if you are going to pretend that you don't want Muslims in your country because they threaten our values and one of those values is that women should have equal rights to work, live and dress as they choose then I think you need to reflect on what our own values regarding women's rights are.


I find the focus on Muslims terribly xenophobic and I personally think it plays into the elites plan to distract and promote fear. The Westboro baptist church in the US and the Bountiful settlement in Canada are two high profile but small Christain groups that scare me personally, however I don't think they are going to take over and destroy our society.

[TargeT]

Women in North America are still twice as likely to be killed by their husband or intimate partner as they are by a stranger.

And men are killed 4x as much as women (https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wicked-deeds/201510/white-females-are-rarely-murder-victims-or-perpetrators)... So for every 1 women killed by someone she knows, 4 men die... but women need help and men have the privilege of dying 4x more, right? (see how feminism falls flat?)


In my local news in the past year I recall there was a Muslim father and son that killed the youngest daughter/sister in the family for inappropriate behavior, basically going out with friends unchaperoned. People were naturally outraged. However, there have also been numerous murders of women by their intimate partners by nonmuslims in my area over the past year for situations that are just as ridiculous, like trying to leave an abusive relationship with their partner or dressing like a "****". In my opinion when white men kill their partners or children it is treated like a sad mental health lapse not a problem with the core values of our culture.

Seems kinda racist and misandrist.. but ok.

Lets play with numbers and references and hard data. please site where you found this (after that I'll show you the rates of violent homicide and how abnormally high they are in the Muslim communities) I only say this because I'm starting to think these ideas you have are not based in fact, but based in "what you heard".


I guess what I am trying to say is that if you are going to pretend that you don't want Muslims in your country because they threaten our values and one of those values is that women should have equal rights to work, live and dress as they choose then I think you need to reflect on what our own values regarding women's rights are.

In the US, women have equal rights to work, live and dress as they choose here, what needs to be addressed; that there are assholes in the world that don't act like we want to, and some times kill women (but kill men 4x more often)?

The fundamental difference here is this: our society agrees that men and women are equal (on the surface, in reality women are "more equal" than men most the time) and we have laws that not only illustrate that, but give women advantages over men.

Islam is the exact opposite (customs, laws, all of it).



I find the focus on Muslims terribly xenophobic and I personally think it plays into the elites plan to distract and promote fear. The Westboro baptist church in the US and the Bountiful settlement in Canada are two high profile but small Christain groups that scare me personally, however I don't think they are going to take over and destroy our society.

That's because there's less than 50 westboro babtist church members...

There's something like 2 billion Muslims and they are rapidly growing (http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/04/06/why-muslims-are-the-worlds-fastest-growing-religious-group/)

Xenophobic doesn't fit here, Islamophobic is far more accurate.... no one cares if people are immigrating from Japan or Canada, or Greece etc...

[Bruno]

I know you would be the first to reply TargeT. Here we go.

There are many places to find stats, here is one:

http://www.canadianwomen.org/facts-about-violence

Quote
5. Aren’t men just as likely to be victims of violence as women?

We strongly believe that ALL violence is unacceptable, and we applaud other campaigns that work to end violence. As a women’s organization, our mission focuses on women and girls. However, our teen violence prevention programs are co-ed, designed for both boys and girls.

While both men and women experience violence, statistics indicate that women do experience higher rates. Women’s risk of violent victimization was about 20% higher than men’s in 2014, according to self-reported data from the General Social Survey on Victimization.[31] This is due to the fact that rates of sexual assault have remained relatively stable, while rates of robbery and physical assault have gone down, and men are more likely to be the victims of those crimes.

7 in 10 people who experience family violence are women and girls.[32]

Women are about four times as likely as men to be victims of intimate partner homicide.[33]

Women were 10 times more likely than men to be the victim of a police-reported sexual assault in 2008.[34]

In terms of domestic violence, some self-reported research shows men are almost as likely as women to experience it.[35]Although some people claim that men are too embarrassed to admit a woman has abused them, the reverse is actually true: in self-reported research, men tend to over-estimate their partner’s violence while under-estimating their own. At the same time, women over-estimate their own violence and under-estimate their partner's. This explains why self-reported research often shows similar levels of violence by men and women, even though other research clearly shows that women are disproportionately the victim.[36]

In addition, men are more likely to initiate violence, while women are more likely to use violence in self-defence.[37]

Most men are not abusive to their families. However, when family violence does occur, the victims are overwhelmingly women:

Women are twice as likely as men to be victims of family violence.[38]
Women who experience spousal violence are more likely to endure extreme forms assault including choking, beating, being threatened with a knife or gun, and sexual violence.[39]
About 80% of victims of dating violence are women.[40]
Girls are 1.5 times more likely than boys to experience violence at home.[41]
---------

Islamophobia or xenophobia? It's both TargeT. Xenophobia for me emphasizes peoples fear of difference. But if you prefer Islamophobia, fine.


As for the Westboro Baptist church comment. Yes, it's small. I brought it up because it makes the news. Just like isolated instances of extreme Muslims in North America make the news.

Please quote rates of violence in Muslim countries. I know they are horrifyingly high, but I would be more interested in rates of violence amoungst practicing Muslims in North America and compare them to any other practicing religious group.

[TargeT]

I know you would be the first to reply TargeT. Here we go.

There are many places to find stats, here is one:

http://www.canadianwomen.org/facts-about-violence
That was some AMAZING cherry picking of data, like. wow! notice how they changed the definition of violence and only focused on "in the home".. well yeah, cuz men die "out of the home" 90% of the time... haha that's just a cluster **** of disinformation and extremely biased.

Totally off topic tho, we can start another thread about women's oppression of men if you'd like ;)
---------




Islamophobia or xenophobia? It's both TargeT. Xenophobia for me emphasizes peoples fear of difference. But if you prefer Islamophobia, fine.

Words have definitions, if we change them arbitrarily we'll end up thinking many topics are what they are not; or at least we just won't communicate well.

Xenophobia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophobia) is a fear of foreigners, but encompassed in Islamophobia there are a lot of the same thoughts (fear of loosing identity, fear of aggression etc..)


As for the Westboro Baptist church comment. Yes, it's small. I brought it up because it makes the news. Just like isolated instances of extreme Muslims in North America make the news.

Please quote rates of violence in Muslim countries. I know they are horrifyingly high, but I would be more interested in rates of violence amoungst practicing Muslims in North America and compare them to any other practicing religious group.

Yeah, pointless to put up numbers of violence in the countries of origin, violence in the destination countries is what most people are concerned with. (and for you and I, we only care bout north america really)

US:
A report by the United States Department of Justice in 2000 found that 1.3% of women and 0.9% of men reported experiencing domestic violence in the past year. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence_in_the_United_States#Gender_aspects_of_abuse)

US:
A study of Muslim married female immigrants from Bangladesh residing in Houston, Texas revealed a 10% prevalence rate of spousal abuse. (http://www.api-gbv.org/violence/muslimwomen.php)

So that's almost 10x more?

of course, islamic women are highly encouraged to defer to their husbands, I doubt they report domestic violence as often (http://www.foxnews.com/story/2008/01/31/abuse-us-muslim-women-is-greater-than-reported-advocacy-groups-say.html); though undoubtedly more often than men of any origin.

there's 3.3 million (1% of the US) Muslims (roughly) in the country; most have not immigrated but some have.

That's a tiny percentage of the US population currently. They are over representing them selves with violence.

[Bruno]

That was some AMAZING cherry picking of data, like. wow! notice how they changed the definition of violence and only focused on "in the home".. well yeah, cuz men die "out of the home" 90% of the time... haha that's just a cluster **** of disinformation and extremely biased.

------
I thought this was a discussion of domestic violence and sexism in Muslim and nonmuslim populations? Not whether men or women get murdered more! Cherry picking? That's rich since you just shared data based on 63 participants opinions?
"A survey of 63 Muslim leaders showed that 10% of Muslims experienced physical abuse in their homes." (Is the quote I found from your linked article.)

Please compare apples to apples. If you can find me a stat that shows that Mosque attending Muslims batter their family members more than Church attending Christians I will be all ears. Not based on religious leaders opinions but on hospital or police data.

My original point is that if you are worried about immigrants coming here that treat women poorly than you should be worried about the people who have lived here for generations that treat women poorly. It is so hypocritical to be worried about immigrants influencing westerners in this regard. Especially since you (TargeT) don't believe that women have a hard time to begin with. :facepalm:

[TargeT]

That was some AMAZING cherry picking of data, like. wow! notice how they changed the definition of violence and only focused on "in the home".. well yeah, cuz men die "out of the home" 90% of the time... haha that's just a cluster **** of disinformation and extremely biased.

------
I thought this was a discussion of domestic violence and sexism in Muslim and nonmuslim populations? Not whether men or women get murdered more! Cherry picking? That's rich since you just shared data based on 63 participants opinions?
"A survey of 63 Muslim leaders showed that 10% of Muslims experienced physical abuse in their homes." (Is the quote I found from your linked article.)


Women in North America are still twice as likely to be killed by their husband or intimate partner as they are by a stranger. I didn't see anything about domestic violence in there, sorry didn't know you wanted to focus soley on that.

And the one I linked was 23 family's not 63 ;) (but there was that 63 one in there as well, it wasn't clearly from the US so I didn't include it).

It's very hard to gather statistics on 1% of 350,000,000 people when they are a fairly recent (in large numbers) addition to the region. That doesn't mean the statistics we do have should be tossed out.


Please compare apples to apples. If you can find me a stat that shows that Mosque attending Muslims batter their family members more than Church attending Christians I will be all ears.

I did, 23 families that moved from Bangladesh to Texas... you don't directly migrate from Bangladesh and NOT attend the mosque..


My original point is that if you are worried about immigrants coming here that treat women poorly than you should be worried about the people who have lived here for generations that treat women poorly. It is so hypocritical to be worried about immigrants influencing westerners in this regard.

Why wouldn't I be worried about both?? that's just not the topic of this thread, and I think I've shown that the "Muslim" issues are more pressing than "woman's rights" at this time.

I'm not at all worried about islam or muslims influencing the western world.. I am worried about people driving trucks through crowds, shooting randomly in night clubs, or schools etc... I don't see how this isn't a very clear distinction. There is no comparison here.


Especially since you (TargeT) don't believe that women have a hard time to begin with. :facepalm:

I never said that, everyone has a hard time..
Men are killed 400% more than women. Men represent 92% of on the job fatalities (https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshcfoi1.htm).. Men represent 99.999% of combat deaths. (http://www.cwc.lsu.edu/other/stats/warcost.htm)Men are: 76% of homicides – DOJ
80% of Suicides – CDC (http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/suifacts.htm)
There are estimated to be over 300,000 male rapes per year in American prisons and jails. (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/www.loompanics.com/Articles/RapeInPrison.html)
Meanwhile A United Nations statistical report (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita)compiled from government sources showed that more than 250,000 cases of male-female rape or attempted rape were recorded by police annually. The reported data covered 65 countries.

Or does dying VASTLY MORE (and being raped vastly more) than women not constitute "a hard time"?


Maybe you see why your anecdotal stories of "my father wouldn't let my mother leave the house" as cute, but not comparable.



You champion what you feel is an important issue, I get that... I do not focus on any one issue, I prefer the larger picture; and it includes ALL of that, but you have to start somewhere and some things are more pressing than others.



What I'm concerned about is the Quran, I've read a good portion of it... What I'm concerned about is the historical examples, and by history, I mean like 2 days ago...

2017.05.14

(https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=Last30)Afghanistan, (https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=Last30) Mehtralam (https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=Last30)
(https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=Last30)
(https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=Last30)Six children between the ages of 6 and 12 are dismembered by Sunni shrapnel. (https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=Last30)

[AutumnW]

Many of the sites frequented by people who are (perhaps justifiably islamophobic) are agenda driven and emotionally manipulative. There is a problem, granted, but perspective is lost when you immerse yourself in online tabloid style drek. The old, "if it bleeds, it leads," is worth reflecting on.

Your perspective is best served by remaining calm and assessing threat from a slightly detached perspective. That way propaganda can't get it's hooks into you. Propagandists and manipulators of all types, rely on emotional knee jerk reactions, where threat becomes exaggerated and our reasoning brains take a back seat.

Propaganda often leverages off of our own life experiences too. Flash, you would be understandably primed to accept questionable information about Islamic threat as true, because it would jive with your own negative experience.

Propagandists follow the line of least resistance, based on the belief structures and reliable emotional triggers of their Target audience. They ratchet up the storyline from there, in increments. They eventually have you believing EXACTLY what they want.

My personal take on the Islamic threat is that it is relatively small, relative to other risks. Are their beliefs annoying? For sure? I hate the crapola they believe. I hate that any Muslim mother has ever allowed her daughter to be genitally mutilated. It's repulsive. But...they are no threat to me. And I really do think that the greater society should work on improving itself so it can provide an alternative example that all radicalized individuals can more easily follow.

We need to be more dignified. We shouldn't be sexually promiscuous, as it ends up in a "hooking up" culture, which commodifies other human beings. We have to live and love in a way that others will want to be more like us. Right now we are no screaming Hell. And if I was an immigrant mother, I would be very worried my child would adopt the mainstream values of the dominant culture, in the U.S and Canada.

[TargeT]

We need to be more dignified. We shouldn't be sexually promiscuous, as it ends up in a "hooking up" culture, which commodifies other human beings. We have to live and love in a way that others will want to be more like us. Right now we are no screaming Hell.

When you look at the situation from a Islamic perspective, it's hard not to agree with them... our "culture" is pretty perverse. I'm fine with that view point, just not the actions taken because of it.


And if I was an immigrant mother, I would be very worried my child would adopt the mainstream values of the dominant culture, in the U.S and Canada.

And here's another reason I cast a dubious eye on Islamic migration to western cultures... we are, to a large majority, literally agents of "Satan" or the Djinn when they view us and how we live our lives.

Why would you ever go live with Satan if not to thwart him or try to "smite him"? (and they tell us this is the reason they "infiltrate" the infidels....)

For example:

chapter 8, verse 12: "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them."


chapter 9, verse 5: "Slay the idolaters wherever you find them and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush…."


chapter 5, verse 51 warns Muslims not to befriend Jews and Christians.


Infiltrating the Infidels
"Muslims know very well that the best way to conquer is not by the sword anymore," Fadi said.
"It's by infiltrating the societies, the political systems, and by basically taking their time to grow, to become a majority that at some point, they will have a voice that they can topple things basically to their advantage," he said.
With The Qur'an Dilemma, Fadi hopes to ensure that never happens.
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2011/september/ex-muslim-speaks-out-about-the-koran-dilemma/?mobile=false

[AutumnW]

I don't know, Target. The whole,"we are so awful we should protect ourselves from people who are sensitive to the worst aspects of our culture" should best be addressed by changing ourselves, the way we relate to each other.

And foreign cultures aside, we should do it because it is the right thing to do and it will help us to live better lives. Western culture is so freaking sick. I am so embarrassed by it all. Amd don't get me wrong, I find their religious practices and ,any more things about the Islamic world pretty darned grosse for different reasons.

You provided a link to CBN, that's the Christian Broadcasting Network and evangelical in nature. Can you see that CBN might have an agenda and might not be the best source of information?

[TargeT]

I don't know, Target. The whole,"we are so awful we should protect ourselves from people who are sensitive to the worst aspects of our culture" should best be addressed by changing ourselves, the way we relate to each other.

Yes, but we also live in reality, what you speak of, in the current Zeitgeist; would take what... decades? longer?

The finish line is the goal, but the next step comes first.


And foreign cultures aside, we should do it because it is the right thing to do and it will help us to live better lives. Western culture is so freaking sick. I am so embarrassed by it all. Amd don't get me wrong, I find their religious practices and ,any more things about the Islamic world pretty darned grosse for different reasons.

I completely agree, but mixing two ****ed up cultures together and expecting it to go well is just very NOT intelligent. If there are refugees in the middle east, they should go to the middle east, to similar cultures... I would never send a Sunni to a Shiite region (both Islamic, both in Iraq) because they would kill each other (during my first deployment I worked in the largest "detainment" facility in the world; it was in a mostly shiite region and every single prisoner was Sunni.. if they escaped they would be killed or sometimes returned to us).

This conversation gets stuck in the weeds a lot, to restate my position on this: don't mix oil and water cultures... no judgement on oil or water being worse, they both have their own issues... but why would you take two failing system that at least one is diametrically opposed to the other? I'm much more "ok" with mass Mexican (catholic primarily) immigration, because that's not an oil and water situation.


You provided a link to CBN, that's the Christian Broadcasting Network and evangelical in nature. Can you see that CBN might have an agenda and might not be the best source of information?

... this logical fallacy....

Please tell me how quotes from the Quran and an interview with someone is biased?

Want other links to the Quran? (btw, my whole point here is that the Quran has an anti-non believer agenda....)

http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=8&verse=12

http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=9&verse=5

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur%27an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Friendship_with_Non-Muslims

Skip the mental shortcut and address the data, the source is meaningless... Ignore the entire interview if you want, just read the passages from the Quran...

The situation should stay static till we both work out our issues.

[Flash]

Target, again with your false stats - how do you f.. do it to find stats and skew them completely


Or does dying VASTLY MORE (and being raped vastly more) than women not constitute "a hard time"?

THIS IS INCREDIBLE.

Where did you take those skewed stats - how did you proceed to be sooooooooo closed minded when it comes to violence against women

World stats, all over, show that on average 25% of women have been raped at least once in their life.

Now 7 billions divided by 2 ( I am generous cause past 30 there is more women than men), = 3,5 billion women from which 25% (divided by 4 ) = 800 million75 that have been raped.
So now, once and for all, tell yourself that you are completely beserk when it comes to women stats, women feeling, women lives and violence versus women and avoid a topic in which you are completely off. You would look much better

Now, if i extrapolate, are all your information as beserk and skewed. I should never ever read you, no more than I should Corey Goodie????? This is the feeling I get.

(not to undervalue violence against men, but definitley it is 2 weights 2 measures that you are using)
<
By the way, those creating wars die have their counterparts die in it, those that fills the jails get raped (moslty men in jail - but I bet that as many women get raped in women jails), etc etc.

This is the last straw, I will never believe again anything you post.



That was some AMAZING cherry picking of data, like. wow! notice how they changed the definition of violence and only focused on "in the home".. well yeah, cuz men die "out of the home" 90% of the time... haha that's just a cluster **** of disinformation and extremely biased.

------
I thought this was a discussion of domestic violence and sexism in Muslim and nonmuslim populations? Not whether men or women get murdered more! Cherry picking? That's rich since you just shared data based on 63 participants opinions?
"A survey of 63 Muslim leaders showed that 10% of Muslims experienced physical abuse in their homes." (Is the quote I found from your linked article.)


Women in North America are still twice as likely to be killed by their husband or intimate partner as they are by a stranger. I didn't see anything about domestic violence in there, sorry didn't know you wanted to focus soley on that.

And the one I linked was 23 family's not 63 ;) (but there was that 63 one in there as well, it wasn't clearly from the US so I didn't include it).

It's very hard to gather statistics on 1% of 350,000,000 people when they are a fairly recent (in large numbers) addition to the region. That doesn't mean the statistics we do have should be tossed out.


Please compare apples to apples. If you can find me a stat that shows that Mosque attending Muslims batter their family members more than Church attending Christians I will be all ears.

I did, 23 families that moved from Bangladesh to Texas... you don't directly migrate from Bangladesh and NOT attend the mosque..


My original point is that if you are worried about immigrants coming here that treat women poorly than you should be worried about the people who have lived here for generations that treat women poorly. It is so hypocritical to be worried about immigrants influencing westerners in this regard.

Why wouldn't I be worried about both?? that's just not the topic of this thread, and I think I've shown that the "Muslim" issues are more pressing than "woman's rights" at this time.

I'm not at all worried about islam or muslims influencing the western world.. I am worried about people driving trucks through crowds, shooting randomly in night clubs, or schools etc... I don't see how this isn't a very clear distinction. There is no comparison here.


Especially since you (TargeT) don't believe that women have a hard time to begin with. :facepalm:

I never said that, everyone has a hard time..
Men are killed 400% more than women. Men represent 92% of on the job fatalities (https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshcfoi1.htm).. Men represent 99.999% of combat deaths. (http://www.cwc.lsu.edu/other/stats/warcost.htm)Men are: 76% of homicides – DOJ
80% of Suicides – CDC (http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/suifacts.htm)
There are estimated to be over 300,000 male rapes per year in American prisons and jails. (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/www.loompanics.com/Articles/RapeInPrison.html)
Meanwhile A United Nations statistical report (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita)compiled from government sources showed that more than 250,000 cases of male-female rape or attempted rape were recorded by police annually. The reported data covered 65 countries.

Or does dying VASTLY MORE (and being raped vastly more) than women not constitute "a hard time"?


Maybe you see why your anecdotal stories of "my father wouldn't let my mother leave the house" as cute, but not comparable.



You champion what you feel is an important issue, I get that... I do not focus on any one issue, I prefer the larger picture; and it includes ALL of that, but you have to start somewhere and some things are more pressing than others.



What I'm concerned about is the Quran, I've read a good portion of it... What I'm concerned about is the historical examples, and by history, I mean like 2 days ago...

2017.05.14

(https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=Last30)Afghanistan, (https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=Last30) Mehtralam (https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=Last30)
(https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=Last30)
(https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=Last30)Six children between the ages of 6 and 12 are dismembered by Sunni shrapnel. (https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=Last30)

[TargeT]

Target, again with your false stats - how do you f.. do it to find stats and skew them completely


Or does dying VASTLY MORE (and being raped vastly more) than women not constitute "a hard time"?THIS IS INCREDIBLE.

Where did you take those skewed stats - how did you proceed to be sooooooooo closed minded when it comes to violence against women

What would you say im being closed minded about exactly? I never said there is no violence against women, simply more against men (and how is that not just "common sense")?

Where did I get those Skewed stats? DOJ (Department of Justice) CDC (Center for Disease Control) all those words that are blue in my posts are links to the sources... I very purposefully do that to avoid questions like you just asked ;)


World stats, all over, show that on average 25% of women have been raped at least once in their life.

Can you source that?

Because I've read a lot of wild numbers that have been debunked over the years.. like college girls are more at risk of rape , when in reality NON-college females are 25% MORE likely to be raped (https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rsavcaf9513.pdf)

I don't care who lies to me or about what.. I dont like it. Manipulation of others is pretty F'd up... and this is an emotional manipulation topic... clearly evidenced by the constant derailments of this thread.



So now, once and for all, tell yourself that you are completely beserk when it comes to women stats, women feeling, women lives and violence versus women and avoid a topic in which you are completely off. You would look much better

ahhh, you mean the CDC and DOJ are completely berserk when it comes to women stats?

I'm not making this up, I'm reading it, and absorbing it for future use. Now granted the DOJ and CDC are not "penultimate" sources in my mind, but they are fairly reliable.


Now, if i extrapolate, are all your information as beserk and skewed. I should never ever read you, no more than I should Corey Goodie????? This is the feeling I get.

You mean the CDC and DOJ?

Do I get lynched with those orginizations because I repeated what they did studies on?





This is the last straw, I will never believe again anything you post.


I never asked you to.

In fact, I would hope that NO ONE "believes" what I say ever... do your OWN research...


but actually research, and maybe read my posts for what they are, not what you project on them.

I re-iterate, none of those stats are mine, I sourced them in the post you quoted....


Please start a "women are victims" thread if you choose, we can discuss this topic there; actually, don't do that. I don't think you are prepared to have a conversation on this topic unless all participants agree with you.

Looks like one of the links above is broke.. since your being so cagey I won't edit the original post, I'll post a different link here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2449454/More-men-raped-US-women-including-prison-sexual-abuse.html

[Chester]

I have seen numerous posts on Project Avalon recently about the sexist and abusive practices of Muslims and concerns about Sharia law becoming law in Western Nations. In general I think these concerns are fear mongering. While I do not want to allow Islamic extremists into my country neither do I want Christian extremists. It's not that I don't think people shouldn't be concerned about the ability of Islamic refugees to meld into society and that all people coming into my country of Canada should be willing to share our values. I just find in general that people seem quite hypocritical when they are talking about the poor treatment of Muslim women by their partners in one post and then in another talking about western feminism as a pysop meant to bring down society. You can't have it both ways. My own father who is part Native and who's European ancestors have been here for 5 generations wouldn't let my mother go back to school or work outside the home.


I believe I have identified what seems to be a difference. In my experience, I don't condone and, personally do not know (because I wouldn't care to associate with) anyone who condones any of the behaviors you mentioned above that are done by folks who happen to not be Muslim.

The thing that I have observed which is not at all "fear mongering" is that there seems to be far, far too many of those in various positions of power, whether they be a politician, or someone in media who has weight, or a business leader of notoriety going to great lengths to defend and protect those who do these terrible things that happen to be Muslim.

Please read carefully what I am suggesting appears to be the case. So many of these horrors are done by all sorts of humans of all sorts of ethnic or cultural backgrounds, religious backgrounds, nationalities, colors, genders (admittedly far more males but not exclusively males), sexual orientations, gender orientations yet you do not see the massive protective mechanisms defending so much of these atrocities near like we experience nowadays if "anything Muslim" is also associated with the picture.

Here is a great example -

Student Journalist Fired for Tweeting Video of Muslim Panelist’s Comments on Non-Believers Under Koranic Law (http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2017/05/16/student-journalist-fired-for-tweeting-video-of-muslim-panelists-comments-on-non-believers-under-koranic-law/)

Student journalist Andy Ngo was fired from his job at the Vanguard, the student newspaper of Portland State University, after a video he posted on Twitter was included in a Breitbart News report.

Student journalist Andy Ngo, a graduate student at Portland State University, was fired from his job at the school’s student newspaper after a video he tweeted of a campus interfaith panel was included in a report from Breitbart News.

The video, which went viral on social media, showed a Muslim student stating that non-believers, or apostates, would either be banished or killed in countries run under Islamic law.

“That is only considered a crime when the country is based on Koranic law,” the student said, speaking about the legality of being a non-believer in an Islamic country. “That means there is no other law than the Koran. So in that case, you are given the liberty to leave the country. You can go to a different country. I am not going to sugarcoat it. So if you go to a different country…but in a Muslim country, a country based on Koranic law, disbelieving or being an infidel, is not allowed, so you will be given the choice.”


...and so here we have a video of a panel where a Muslim states a fact that he knows is true (being a Muslim himself) and the journalist tweeted the video and is then fired from his position as a journalist for the Portland State University Vanguard.

I would bet this same journalist... if he had come upon a video of testimony from a daughter of a woman whose husband (the daughter's father) was of mixed Native American and European ancestry and had oppressed his wife to the degree she would not be allowed to go back to school or work outside the home... that he certainly would not have been fired and instead he may have been applauded for his investigative journalism.

THIS is the problem... we cannot TALK about the problem... AT ALL.

And because of this mind blowing protection blanket wrapped around anything Muslim, you cannot even point out real horrific acts! Real horrific practices. And in addition... you cannot at all touch any single "dot connector" regarding these behaviors if in any way that touches Muslim or any national identifier where the nation is known to be predominantly Muslim.

Its OFF limits.

and so I wish all our children from all families, cultures, nations, religions, genders, etc. etc...

Goooood Luck!

[Flash]

Here the USA stats dating late 1990's

I may have been a bit off (i do not think I am for the 2018's), but nevertheless, the difference between male and female is striking.

17 million women raped or attempted rape, 1 in 6
2 million men raped or attempted rape.

What I do not like in your stats Target are not the stats themselves, but the way you use them to make false deductions and false conclusions, to win your point.

I definitively cannot trust your conclusions, and this, on many topics. Sometimes I wonder if you do not do this on purpose te create discontent and bad vipes on the forum.

I have seen crooked researchers doing the same with their research, they usually work at Monsanto and ini the Pharmaceutical industries.

https://www.rainn.org/statistics/victims-sexual-violence

[TargeT]

I definitively cannot trust your conclusions, and this, on many topics. Sometimes I wonder if you do not do this on purpose te create discontent and bad vipes on the forum.
I have seen crooked researchers doing the same with their research, they usually work at Monsanto and ini the Pharmaceutical industries.


Well I work for the military industrial complex, how is that not worse ;)

<-- that picture is of me in my Army uniform

I think your clearly biased, watch the red pill (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/13/the-red-pill-screening-divides-campus-libertarians-from-pro-women-groups), at least expose your self to "the other side" a little.. and clearly from someone other than me (haha) since your so biased against me.




THIS is the problem... we cannot TALK about the problem... AT ALL.

And because of this mind blowing protection blanket wrapped around anything Muslim, you cannot even point out real horrific acts! Real horrific practices. And in addition... you cannot at all touch any single "dot connector" regarding these behaviors if in any way that touches Muslim or any national identifier where the nation is known to be predominantly Muslim.

Its OFF limits.


Same with free energy (though you wouldn't be fired, just character assassinated)

Same with LGBTQRSTUVWXYZ

Same with Racism

Same with Sexism

Same with 9/11-Kennedy-SSP-etc.... (though you wouldn't be fired, just character assassinated)

See the pattern? Every strong divide and conquer tactic has a built in self defense mechanism, it's a mind virus that protects itself viciously (we've seen that here on this very thread!). This is what I think a lot of conspiracy or "their actions" really boil down to.. "they" don't need to do anything since these mind viruses seem to work on us so well. We will pick it up and run with it, and defend it with vigor.

Not being able to even discuss these topics makes them unsolvable, and while there is encouragement from media / culture to up hold this status-quo; it doesn't seem like any direct effort is needed to "enforce" it (though there are direct efforts on racism, sexism and Islamophobia in the form of laws etc in various countries). We enforce it on ourselves.

Since there is a pattern we should be able to analyze it and come up with commonalities between the "un-discussable" topics; those already deeply embedded will have to fight their own way out but perhaps preventing more from getting sucked in is possible. There's got to be an "Achilles heel" to these types of memes.

[Bruno]

This thread is important Sam. There is much important discussion. In no way am I saying it's racist to point out the truth, that being that many (not all) Muslims have different values then "white" Americans. (Sharia law would only enter Canada over my dead body and the body of many Canadians.) I was trying to point out the hypocrisy of people spreading fear about Muslim immigrants bringing their sexist and violent attitudes to the West on this thread and then on others denying that there is even a need for feminism or that feminism its self is a pysop.

[Helene West]

In reading the above several posts it has me reflecting on the short time I've been on this board, particularly in regard to expressing oneself and accusations of twisting things, demanding proof and back-up, etc.

I've come to maybe a kooky conclusion - the people who may accuse you of twisting, manipulating info or want back-up of your views - those are the people to least give them to!

So I write something - someone says, no way, they want back-up of that. Hmmm, now i'm supposed to give my time and energy when I have a sneaky suspicion I know what will happen - you give them their proof - and they reject it! They find fault with it. LOL. and it could go on back and forth forever like that.

This society has become so divergent that I see a need for a new specialty genre in the professions - that of some type of cultural Liaison or Negotiators, and I mean a rigorous specialty with study in the Art of Impartiality AND sworn to never run for public office as a politician.

There is a reason it is one of the Beatitudes, blessed are the Peacemakers for they shall see God. Humans are not wired to be impartial, to do things like researching data points to support views that go against their world view and experience! We can't do it. It takes very unusual people.

I think it was late '70s early '80s a psychologist became famous for writing a book called Games People Play. He had patients suffering from depression to cancer, etc. His conclusion after many years of practice - that many humans would rather die than change! Even when the way they think was killing them, they would resist tooth and nail suggestions that their thinking was off and not serving them.

No one is twisting anything here, we're doing what we're wired to do, find support for our world view and experience.

==Edit== Games People Play about transactional analysis by Eric Berne

[AutumnW]

We need to be more dignified. We shouldn't be sexually promiscuous, as it ends up in a "hooking up" culture, which commodifies other human beings. We have to live and love in a way that others will want to be more like us. Right now we are no screaming Hell.

When you look at the situation from a Islamic perspective, it's hard not to agree with them... our "culture" is pretty perverse. I'm fine with that view point, just not the actions taken because of it.


And if I was an immigrant mother, I would be very worried my child would adopt the mainstream values of the dominant culture, in the U.S and Canada.

And here's another reason I cast a dubious eye on Islamic migration to western cultures... we are, to a large majority, literally agents of "Satan" or the Djinn when they view us and how we live our lives.

Why would you ever go live with Satan if not to thwart him or try to "smite him"? (and they tell us this is the reason they "infiltrate" the infidels....)

For example:

chapter 8, verse 12: "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them."


chapter 9, verse 5: "Slay the idolaters wherever you find them and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush…."


chapter 5, verse 51 warns Muslims not to befriend Jews and Christians.


Infiltrating the Infidels
"Muslims know very well that the best way to conquer is not by the sword anymore," Fadi said.
"It's by infiltrating the societies, the political systems, and by basically taking their time to grow, to become a majority that at some point, they will have a voice that they can topple things basically to their advantage," he said.
With The Qur'an Dilemma, Fadi hopes to ensure that never happens.
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2011/september/ex-muslim-speaks-out-about-the-koran-dilemma/?mobile=false

You make many good points in your post and I don't even have to read the quotes from the Quran. I know how awful they are. I know it's a bloody minded horrible book, bent on extreme exclusivity. I just don't think the majority of Muslims are radicalized to the extent they would take the whole of it that seriously. Just like Christians, even most fundamentalists, wouldn't sanction killing people because they are of another faith.

But I DO understand your feelings about potential risk of terrorism. I just can't determine what those risks are. They seem low to me but I could be mistaken. It seems to me the U.S is pretty darned careful about who it lets into the country, particularly if they are from the Middle East.

[Chester]

This thread is important Sam. There is much important discussion. In no way am I saying it's racist to point out the truth, that being that many (not all) Muslims have different values then "white" Americans. (Sharia law would only enter Canada over my dead body and the body of many Canadians.) I was trying to point out the hypocrisy of people spreading fear about Muslim immigrants bringing their sexist and violent attitudes to the West on this thread and then on others denying that there is even a need for feminism or that feminism its self is a pysop.

Ahhhh... OK. And now this is clearer (your goal), yet you might not like my own take on "feminism." This is because from my own experience with and investigation into the movement of "feminism" (as it has become)... the movement which most of us experience today, "feminism" holds to tenants that have been developed over the last fifty years to do anything but what the original and quite virtuous goals of "women's lib" (as we experienced arising in the 60s) rightfully sought.

What "feminism" today appears to be to folks like me is not only something that is harmful to women and women's rights but harmful to all human beings as a whole... whether that human was born physically female or male, who, if they enjoy any sexual activity in any way may choose the opposite "sex" (meaning gender) to participate with, may choose the same sex or may enjoy both, sometimes more than one or may simply have attractions or inclinations in any of those directions but have never acted upon these inclinations, maybe have no interest in sex and then those who decide to manipulate their own physically born gender to fit more with the gender they currently identify to be just because gender and/or sexual matters are linked to gender identity...

...in other words all humans fit somewhere in this description... and then there are the issues that "feminism" weaponized which may or may not have anything to do with the above breakdown of the human makeup but which often was linked to real issues whereby people's views would be hijacked through the human inclination to "identify" and thus then groupify. This creates factions and divisions where none need be. And yet this has been the result of "feminism" and its related offshoots of "radical fiminism" and results in new labels such as "feminazi" becoming further polarizing buzzwords....

just like "radical Islam" and on and on...

My opinion as to what I have experienced and thus concluded (for now as I always hold the right to change my mind partially or fully at any time) is that "feminism" (today's version) wishes the public to believe it acts as an "SJW" (social justice warrior) to make things better for woman (and all) but there is also quite a bit of evidence that the "feminist movement" was indeed funded by some of the infamous "elite" and their economically advantaged foundations along with friends in "deep state" / "three letter" agencies to ensure that the movement went the intended direction and enjoyed an increased probability to succeed in the form desired - which succeeded in producing today's version of "feminism."

see -

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/laurie-penny/2012/02/women-white-miller-woman-young-2

http://www.rense.com/general21/hw.htm

http://rense.com/general75/how.htm

https://jaysanalysis.com/2015/02/21/why-billionaire-oligarchs-bankroll-feminism/

[AutumnW]

This thread is important Sam. There is much important discussion. In no way am I saying it's racist to point out the truth, that being that many (not all) Muslims have different values then "white" Americans. (Sharia law would only enter Canada over my dead body and the body of many Canadians.) I was trying to point out the hypocrisy of people spreading fear about Muslim immigrants bringing their sexist and violent attitudes to the West on this thread and then on others denying that there is even a need for feminism or that feminism its self is a pysop.

Thanks for your input, Bruno. I look forward to reading your posts on any and all subjects. And thanks to Sam for starting the thread!

I want to point out something important here. It is REALLY important that those familiar with Canadian hate speech understand the subtext. The media in Canada, last time I checked was 80% Jewish owned. This has meant, historically, that you CANNOT say anything against Israel, as a reporter, or you will be fired. I know more than one individual in the media and this is their primary beef. They are not allowed to report stories with accuracy. It is not explicitly stated, upon termination, of course, but that is exactly what happens.

Before hate speech laws were inacted, particularly where Muslims were concerned, Canada was operating in a media atmosphere where Israel could not be criticized, but everybody else was fair game. Had those laws not been put in place, you would have had a Jewish media with a strong pro Israel bias, editing out all criticism of Israel, in an atmosphere where demonizing other ethnic groups would have been legally protected under "free speech."

So it's complicated and 'freedom' creates many paradoxes.

The Portland Islamic student who made the statements about the killing of those who have a different religion should have had his ass flown directly back to his country of origin, IMHO.

Bruno, under our hate speech laws, would this POS student have suffered any consequences? Would the university have come under scrutiny? This isn't freedom of speech. The student is using the American freedoms (such as they are) to endorse am extreme curtailment of freedom...to the point of endorsing murder.

[Chester]

Bruno, under our hate speech laws, would this POS student have suffered any consequences? Would the university have come under scrutiny? This isn't freedom of speech. The student is using the American freedoms (such as they are) to endorse am extreme curtailment of freedom...to the point of endorsing murder.

I sense the above was a misunderstanding of what the student had actually done... and I have placed this here for clarification purposes only for readers who might be catching up through this material after the fact... [see Autumn's reply a bit further on where she clarifies the misunderstanding].



The Portland Islamic student who made the statements about the killing of those who have a different religion should have had his ass flown directly back to his country of origin, IMHO.


Forgive me, Autumn, but I don't think we could have watched the same video...

...or, I missed something or terribly misunderstood something.

I will now review the video again.




OK, I am back... and note, I had watched that video four times prior to posting above (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?97318-Trump-Illegal-immigration-Sam-s-view&p=1153282&viewfull=1#post1153282) and now two more times...

- what you are suggesting this student stated is not at all what he stated.

What he stated is actually happening right now in places like Pakistan -

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/29/which-countries-still-outlaw-apostasy-and-blasphemy/


Last December [2015], for instance, authorities in Sudan charged 25 men for apostasy – the act of abandoning one’s faith — including by converting to another religion. The men face the death penalty for following a different interpretation of Islam than the one sanctioned by the government.

This probably brave young man stated fact and he is a Muslim... probably what others would "call" "a moderate Muslim" and if his ass was sent back to his country he may likely be facing the same fate as the twenty five men mentioned in the above quote.

[TargeT]

But I DO understand your feelings about potential risk of terrorism. I just can't determine what those risks are. They seem low to me but I could be mistaken. It seems to me the U.S is pretty darned careful about who it lets into the country, particularly if they are from the Middle East.

And even as careful as we are... for example, in the last 5-7 years or so:

we let in the underwear bomber (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/22/us/politics/anwar-awlaki-underwear-bomber-abdulmutallab.html?_r=0) (IMO probably a patsy.. but no proof)

We let in the Boston marathon bombers (https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/04/how-boston-bombing-suspects-became-us-citizens/316082/)

We let in people from the San Bernadino school shooting (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_San_Bernardino_attack#Raheel_Farook.2C_Tatiana_Farook.2C_and_Mariya_Chernykh)

We let the Minnesota mall stabber in (http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/18/us/minnesota-mall-stabbing/)

we let in the Ohio state staber (http://www.dailywire.com/news/11125/things-you-need-know-about-ohio-state-shootings-hank-berrien)

we let in the chattanooga shooter (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/12/16/chattanooga-shooting-terror-attack-fbi-director-james-comey-says.html)

And that list doubles if you include 2nd generation Muslims or Islamic converts inside the US.

Now I do agree this is a fairly small number of fatalities, we have much more dangerous issues to deal with with in our own boarders.. but we don't need to pull an Europe and bring in more trouble... we have our own issues already.. haha




The Portland Islamic student who made the statements about the killing of those who have a different religion should have had his ass flown directly back to his country of origin, IMHO.


Forgive me, Autumn, but I don't think we could have watched the same video...

I'll assume she just read what you wrote... it could be taken that way with out reviewing the article.

[AutumnW]

The Portland Islamic student who made the statements about the killing of those who have a different religion should have had his ass flown directly back to his country of origin, IMHO.


Forgive me, Autumn, but I don't think we could have watched the same video...

...or, I missed something or terribly misunderstood something.

I will now review the video again.




OK, I am back... and note, I had watched that video four times prior to posting above (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?97318-Trump-Illegal-immigration-Sam-s-view&p=1153282&viewfull=1#post1153282) and now two more times...

- what you are suggesting this student stated is not at all what he stated.

What he stated is actually happening right now in places like Pakistan -

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/29/which-countries-still-outlaw-apostasy-and-blasphemy/


Last December [2015], for instance, authorities in Sudan charged 25 men for apostasy – the act of abandoning one’s faith — including by converting to another religion. The men face the death penalty for following a different interpretation of Islam than the one sanctioned by the government.

This probably brave young man stated fact and he is a Muslim... probably what others would "call" "a moderate Muslim" and if his ass was sent back to his country he may likely be facing the same fate as the twenty five men mentioned in the above quote.

Oh, my bad! I shouldn't speed read subjects that require me to slooooowwww down. From now on consider me the sloth in Zootopia.

[ThePythonicCow]

Sierra and Dennis - two of the finest - it's been my pleasure and honor to serve with them.

I wish them both the best in their renewed focus elsewhere.

Until we meet again ...
Well, well. Fancy meeting Sierra again so soon. She's back in the backroom with the rest of us mods and admins!

http://thepythoniccow.us/thank-you-cow.jpeg
Welcome back, Sierra !

Now :focus: before I get in trouble with Bill for my off topic posts.

[TargeT]

But I DO understand your feelings about potential risk of terrorism. I just can't determine what those risks are. They seem low to me but I could be mistaken. It seems to me the U.S is pretty darned careful about who it lets into the country, particularly if they are from the Middle East.

And even as careful as we are... for example, in the last 5-7 years or so:

we let in the underwear bomber (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/22/us/politics/anwar-awlaki-underwear-bomber-abdulmutallab.html?_r=0) (IMO probably a patsy.. but no proof)

We let in the Boston marathon bombers (https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/04/how-boston-bombing-suspects-became-us-citizens/316082/)

We let in people from the San Bernadino school shooting (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_San_Bernardino_attack#Raheel_Farook.2C_Tatiana_Farook.2C_and_Mariya_Chernykh)

We let the Minnesota mall stabber in (http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/18/us/minnesota-mall-stabbing/)

we let in the Ohio state staber (http://www.dailywire.com/news/11125/things-you-need-know-about-ohio-state-shootings-hank-berrien)

we let in the chattanooga shooter (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/12/16/chattanooga-shooting-terror-attack-fbi-director-james-comey-says.html)

And that list doubles if you include 2nd generation Muslims or Islamic converts inside the US.



Wow, Point, set, match?

Turkish body guards assault peaceful protestors and send several to the hospital, then claim self defense.... and these are GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS of an Islamic country...
oHxAeRwfyGs

bbZD1GWmCXY

I never thought I would see something like this in the US.

This enrages me... this is why I will always inform people of what can happen with this culture.

[turiya]

Wow, Point, set, match?

Turkish body guards assault peaceful protestors and send several to the hospital, then claim self defense.... and these are GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS of an Islamic country...
oHxAeRwfyGs

bbZD1GWmCXY

I never thought I would see something like this in the US.

This enrages me... this is why I will always inform people of what can happen with this culture.


Pretty damn brutal... From my understanding, part of the problem is that the guys in suits have diplomatic passports, which means they are technically not subject to the rule of law within this country. They are not even given tickets for traffic violations...
Hence, the police officers are somewhat "handcuffed" as to what they can do with these Turkish security agents.


Here's former DHS whistleblower Philip Haney being interviewed by Fox & Friends...


Today's HEADLINES - delivered by John B Wells - #738 (https://youtu.be/RrORbW53iEg?t=33m22s)
(Published on May 10, 2017)
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/RrORbW53iEg/hqdefault.jpg
VIDEO (https://youtu.be/RrORbW53iEg?t=33m22s)
https://youtu.be/RrORbW53iEg?t=33m22s

[TargeT]

Pretty damn brutal... From my understanding, part of the problem is that the guys in suits have diplomatic passports, which means they are technically not subject to the rule of law within this country. They are not even given tickets for traffic violations...
Hence, the police officers are somewhat "handcuffed" as to what they can do with these Turkish security agents.


Cops have tazers and peperspay and are human ( i think?)

I would NOT stand by "handcuffed or not" and let 5 guys kick one guy in the face while he's down...

that's just despicable; cops taser the crap out of everyone else, and peper spray kids sitting on the ground with zipties on their hands... this doesn't line up. Almost fishy.

[turiya]

Pretty damn brutal... From my understanding, part of the problem is that the guys in suits have diplomatic passports, which means they are technically not subject to the rule of law within this country. They are not even given tickets for traffic violations...
Hence, the police officers are somewhat "handcuffed" as to what they can do with these Turkish security agents.


Cops have tazers and peperspay and are human ( i think?)

I would NOT stand by "handcuffed or not" and let 5 guys kick one guy in the face while he's down...

that's just despicable; cops taser the crap out of everyone else, and peper spray kids sitting on the ground with zipties on their hands... this doesn't line up. Almost fishy.

Still, I would like to hear what the officers that were involved in this have to say from there side and hear what they have to say about it. Could be they were given instructions from their superiors as to how far they could go with these guys. Tough job, no doubt.

more...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVijF45MYY0

and more... this one showing Erdogan, at the scene, stepping out of his car to watch...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ael30RH3gbU

https://i0.wp.com/investingmatters.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/erdy2.png?fit=554%2C307&ssl=1


And now, John McCain puts in his 2 cents...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5X2YWwq4jMo

[TargeT]

this doesn't line up. Almost fishy.

Could be they were given instructions from their superiors as to how far they could go with these guys.

Brawl breaks out, turks beat up US citizens, cops do nothing, Mccain comes out warhawkish...

Kinda stinks like deep state? are we trying to stand up a new boogy man since Syria and Iran failed to fit the bill?

The air space violations (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?97779-Turkey-violates-Greek-airspace-141-times-in-one-day), the protestor attack, the diplomatic crap in the EU (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/11/erdogan-brands-dutch-nazi-remnants-for-barring-turkish-mp)... Turkey influencing elections (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39262002)..Seems a bit much eh?

[turiya]

this doesn't line up. Almost fishy.

Could be they were given instructions from their superiors as to how far they could go with these guys.

Brawl breaks out, turks beat up US citizens, cops do nothing, Mccain comes out warhawkish...

Kinda stinks like deep state? are we trying to stand up a new boogy man since Syria and Iran failed to fit the bill?

The air space violations (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?97779-Turkey-violates-Greek-airspace-141-times-in-one-day), the protestor attack, the diplomatic crap in the EU (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/11/erdogan-brands-dutch-nazi-remnants-for-barring-turkish-mp)... Turkey influencing elections (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39262002)..Seems a bit much eh?

No, your intuitive sense may have it quite right.

I very much doubt that Erdogan would be aligned with the Deep State. Although, his nemesis - Fetullah Gulen (living in Pennsylvania) - is most definitely aligned with CIA, as "Graham E. Fuller, a former CIA agent, provided endorsement letters for Gulen's green card application." U.S. has refused to make extradition back to Turkey possible. He's suspected of hiring CIA assets as teachers in his many madrassas that he's established across the globe. See Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fethullah_G%C3%BClen)

There is suspicion that the last coup d'etat in Turkey was a CIA planned operation.

I would also bet that this is a big part of the issues that Trump & Erdogan were to negotiate over.
We'll have to see where this will go from here... it would be good if Trump addressed this particular incident, where its pretty obvious that Erdogan instructed his security agents to go on the attack w/ the Kurdish protesters...


________________Late Add________________


State Department condemns violence
by Erdogan security guards at D.C. protest (http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/17/turkish-ambassador-residence-fight-238487)
By Louis Nelson
05/17/2017 07:21 AM EDT



The State Department confirmed on Wednesday that Turkish security personnel were involved in a clash with protesters outside the Turkish ambassador’s residence in Northwest Washington a day earlier that left nine people injured and two in police custody.

“We are concerned by the violent incidents involving protestors and Turkish security personnel Tuesday evening. Violence is never an appropriate response to free speech, and we support the rights of people everywhere to free expression and peaceful protest,” the State Department said in a statement. “We are communicating our concern to the Turkish government in the strongest possible terms.”

"There could be a diplomatic immunity issue but that won't prevent us from doing what we need to do here at the metropolitan police department," Newsham said. "We don't know what happened before the video was turned on. It appears to be unprovoked. And it appears to be very brutal."

This isn’t the first time a D.C. visit by Erdogan sparked violence. In March 2016, Erdogan’s security guards reportedly attacked demonstrators and journalists outside the Brookings Institution in Washington.

POLITICO (http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/17/turkish-ambassador-residence-fight-238487)

[Whiskey_Mystic]

In reading the above several posts it has me reflecting on the short time I've been on this board, particularly in regard to expressing oneself and accusations of twisting things, demanding proof and back-up, etc.

I've come to maybe a kooky conclusion - the people who may accuse you of twisting, manipulating info or want back-up of your views - those are the people to least give them to!

So I write something - someone says, no way, they want back-up of that. Hmmm, now i'm supposed to give my time and energy when I have a sneaky suspicion I know what will happen - you give them their proof - and they reject it! They find fault with it. LOL. and it could go on back and forth forever like that.

This society has become so divergent that I see a need for a new specialty genre in the professions - that of some type of cultural Liaison or Negotiators, and I mean a rigorous specialty with study in the Art of Impartiality AND sworn to never run for public office as a politician.

There is a reason it is one of the Beatitudes, blessed are the Peacemakers for they shall see God. Humans are not wired to be impartial, to do things like researching data points to support views that go against their world view and experience! We can't do it. It takes very unusual people.

I think it was late '70s early '80s a psychologist became famous for writing a book called Games People Play. He had patients suffering from depression to cancer, etc. His conclusion after many years of practice - that many humans would rather die than change! Even when the way they think was killing them, they would resist tooth and nail suggestions that their thinking was off and not serving them.

No one is twisting anything here, we're doing what we're wired to do, find support for our world view and experience.

==Edit== Games People Play about transactional analysis by Eric Berne

Good post, Helene. There is a difference between discussion and debate.

In a discussion, people share ideas and examine them together. All parties can walk away with an expanded view and more possibilities. The community is strengthened.

In a debate, people attempt to defeat the belief system of another. Their own belief system is staunchly defended. New possibilities are not created. There is no productive outcome save for the stroking of egos (some of us do enjoy the victory when we "win" a debate). The community is divided.

I am sometimes disappointed when I see debate in this way here on Avalon (I'm as guilty as any). I hope we can all remember that we are all on the same team. We have more in common than we have differences. We are a community and family, so let's treat each other with respect.

Especially, and I say again especially, when we disagree so strongly that we even feel deeply offended by the views of the other. That is the time to open your heart.

Many of us are passionate people. We can be aware of this and focus that passion where it can be useful. Deep breaths. Avalon can set the example for the other communities.

Thank you.

:focus:

[DNA]

I think it was late '70s early '80s a psychologist became famous for writing a book called Games People Play. He had patients suffering from depression to cancer, etc. His conclusion after many years of practice - that many humans would rather die than change! Even when the way they think was killing them, they would resist tooth and nail suggestions that their thinking was off and not serving them.
Wow, I'm a huge fan of TA, Transactional Analysis and I read the book "The Games People Play" back when I was 22. At the time I was fully immersed in TA, as it was the foundation piece for NLP.
People are absolutely programmed through their childhood in my opinion. When you say to your child "you're stupid and you'll never amount to anything" folks would be surprised how many times things like this stick. Also phrases like "you're just like you're father" when that father has been incarcerated and is spending most of his life in prison. I saw this play out with my best friend as an adolescence, his mom making these accusations and then the child growing up to try and fulfill this prophecy made by the mother. None of this is conscious but it is there just the same.
This is why young adults should go through elongated stretches of introspection and meditation in my opinion. Because if they do not, they do not truly ever became autonomous. And this is what we are seeing now. We are seeing young adults, "programmed" not just by their parents who have been programmed but by school and the media. And we have these folks operating on platforms set up by the Tavistock Insitute and played out by the elite who control the education system and the media.
I live in a rural setting, and you would not believe how much the folks here are not as affected by the media and the programming.
As far as school is concerned the education system here is hugely influenced by the religious sector here, and kids just aren't popping out like they do in big cities.
Hardly anyone here watches the MSM, and almost everyone here refers to it as the fake news.
I'm not the exception here I'm the norm, which is pretty cool. :)
But in regards to TA, yes I'm a huge fan of Eric Berne and I think he is right on the money. Folks could do worse than understanding TA in regards to getting a better understanding on themselves and humans in general.

[TargeT]

This is why young adults should go through elongated stretches of introspection and meditation in my opinion.

Walkabout
Finding your spirit animal

We used to do this stuff as a right of passage... now we stare at smartphones till we have to stumble out into the real world...

and the signs of this change are everywhere, in personal interactions, insecurity, the rise of ADHD (misdiagnosis imo... it should be referred to as a symptom of our media/entertainment addicted culture).


I have a 15 year old son, I'm trying to plan something for him, something impactful.. but how the hell do you even go about it anymore?? I didn't go through one until I was in my mid twenties and it wasn't on purpose.

More reading needed..

Do Mulsims have something like this? I know they understand child indoctrination / programming, they are pro's at that... so I kind wonder if they would or wouldn't have something like this.

[awakeningmom]

But I DO understand your feelings about potential risk of terrorism. I just can't determine what those risks are. They seem low to me but I could be mistaken. It seems to me the U.S is pretty darned careful about who it lets into the country, particularly if they are from the Middle East.

And even as careful as we are... for example, in the last 5-7 years or so:

we let in the underwear bomber (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/22/us/politics/anwar-awlaki-underwear-bomber-abdulmutallab.html?_r=0) (IMO probably a patsy.. but no proof)

We let in the Boston marathon bombers (https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/04/how-boston-bombing-suspects-became-us-citizens/316082/)

We let in people from the San Bernadino school shooting (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_San_Bernardino_attack#Raheel_Farook.2C_Tatiana_Farook.2C_and_Mariya_Chernykh)

We let the Minnesota mall stabber in (http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/18/us/minnesota-mall-stabbing/)

we let in the Ohio state staber (http://www.dailywire.com/news/11125/things-you-need-know-about-ohio-state-shootings-hank-berrien)

we let in the chattanooga shooter (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/12/16/chattanooga-shooting-terror-attack-fbi-director-james-comey-says.html)

And that list doubles if you include 2nd generation Muslims or Islamic converts inside the US.

Now I do agree this is a fairly small number of fatalities, we have much more dangerous issues to deal with with in our own boarders.. but we don't need to pull an Europe and bring in more trouble... we have our own issues already.. haha




The Portland Islamic student who made the statements about the killing of those who have a different religion should have had his ass flown directly back to his country of origin, IMHO.


Forgive me, Autumn, but I don't think we could have watched the same video...

I'll assume she just read what you wrote... it could be taken that way with out reviewing the article.

Target,
I find it pretty disappointing that you are using what are almost certainly state sponsored false flag incidents/events to support your anti-Muslim sentiment. San Bernadino? Boston Bombing? As if the Tsarnev brothers were anything more than alphabet agent patsies, just like the "19 Muslim hijackers" of 9/11." Yes, they might have been the Muslim/Arab faces plastered on MSM, but the forces behind them were almost certainly not Muslim/Arab. I thought we were all beyond the official narratives here.

And speaking of the "19 hijackers," how is it that DJT, who has openly accused Saudi Arabia of its involvement in 9/11, is now signing $110 Billion arms deals with Saudi Arabia? I'm eager to hear this one explained away with straight faces.

[Chester]

19... an interesting number

19 Killed in ‘Appalling Suicide Attack’ After Ariana Grande Concert in U.K. (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/deaths-injuries-confirmed-after-explosions-heard-u-k-concert-featuring-n763286)

"Just a coincidence, nothing to worry about here." ~ David Icke

[TargeT]

But I DO understand your feelings about potential risk of terrorism. I just can't determine what those risks are. They seem low to me but I could be mistaken. It seems to me the U.S is pretty darned careful about who it lets into the country, particularly if they are from the Middle East.

And even as careful as we are... for example, in the last 5-7 years or so:

we let in the underwear bomber (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/22/us/politics/anwar-awlaki-underwear-bomber-abdulmutallab.html?_r=0) (IMO probably a patsy.. but no proof)

We let in the Boston marathon bombers (https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/04/how-boston-bombing-suspects-became-us-citizens/316082/)

We let in people from the San Bernadino school shooting (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_San_Bernardino_attack#Raheel_Farook.2C_Tatiana_Farook.2C_and_Mariya_Chernykh)

We let the Minnesota mall stabber in (http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/18/us/minnesota-mall-stabbing/)

we let in the Ohio state staber (http://www.dailywire.com/news/11125/things-you-need-know-about-ohio-state-shootings-hank-berrien)

we let in the chattanooga shooter (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/12/16/chattanooga-shooting-terror-attack-fbi-director-james-comey-says.html)

And that list doubles if you include 2nd generation Muslims or Islamic converts inside the US.

Now I do agree this is a fairly small number of fatalities, we have much more dangerous issues to deal with with in our own boarders.. but we don't need to pull an Europe and bring in more trouble... we have our own issues already.. haha




The Portland Islamic student who made the statements about the killing of those who have a different religion should have had his ass flown directly back to his country of origin, IMHO.


Forgive me, Autumn, but I don't think we could have watched the same video...

I'll assume she just read what you wrote... it could be taken that way with out reviewing the article.

Target,
I find it pretty disappointing that you are using what are almost certainly state sponsored false flag incidents/events to support your anti-Muslim sentiment. San Bernadino? Boston Bombing? As if the Tsarnev brothers were anything more than alphabet agent patsies, just like the "19 Muslim hijackers" of 9/11." Yes, they might have been the Muslim/Arab faces plastered on MSM, but the forces behind them were almost certainly not Muslim/Arab. I thought we were all beyond the official narratives here.

And speaking of the "19 hijackers," how is it that DJT, who has openly accused Saudi Arabia of its involvement in 9/11, is now signing $110 Billion arms deals with Saudi Arabia? I'm eager to hear this one explained away with straight faces.

Of the 6 attacks I listed I'd say it was half and half on "authentic incidents" and "incidents the US either highly encouraged or helped to cause".

Not really sure why it's disappointing, the half that seem real are bad enough and the "encouraged" ones... well encouragement doesn't work if those base feelings and ideas aren't already present; besides NOT allowing mass immigration or "sanctuary" would not hurt, only help in many ways as currently these two cultures are not compatible.

[turiya]

I find it pretty disappointing that you are using what are almost certainly state sponsored false flag incidents/events to support your anti-Muslim sentiment. San Bernadino? Boston Bombing? As if the Tsarnev brothers were anything more than alphabet agent patsies, just like the "19 Muslim hijackers" of 9/11." Yes, they might have been the Muslim/Arab faces plastered on MSM, but the forces behind them were almost certainly not Muslim/Arab. I thought we were all beyond the official narratives here.

Yes. Let us not lose sight of exactly who the real terrorists are.
Certainly correct to call this terrorism State sponsored...
I would go a bit further to call it "Deep State Sponsored Terroism".

Yes, words are important. Words & their definitions are important. Words may look similar, may even sound very similar... and yet, have very different meanings. Words like 'Islam, Islamic, Islamist, Islamism. Essentially, a proper debate / discussion would be best to wrap one's mind around the distinct differences, and have a more clear understanding of "Islam vs Islamism."

Islamism is a concept whose meaning has been debated in both public and academic contexts.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamism#cite_note-Poljarevic-def-1) The term can refer to diverse forms of social and political activism advocating that public and political life should be guided by Islamic principles, or more specifically to movements which call for full implementation of sharia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia). It is commonly used interchangeably with the terms political Islam or Islamic fundamentalism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_fundamentalism). --Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamism)


What's the difference between Islam & Islamism?
(Published on Jan 11, 2015)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Bbshln8DKs



And speaking of the "19 hijackers," how is it that DJT, who has openly accused Saudi Arabia of its involvement in 9/11, is now signing $110 Billion arms deals with Saudi Arabia? I'm eager to hear this one explained away with straight faces.

Secondly, it may be good to go over the speech Trump gave to the Saudi royals...


Judge Jeanine on Trump's Saudi Gamble, 1643 (https://youtu.be/4b8HMFs7DYM?t=1m49s)
(Published on May 22, 2017)
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/4b8HMFs7DYM/hqdefault.jpg
VIDEO (https://youtu.be/4b8HMFs7DYM?t=1m49s)

Perhaps, it is the time to grow up & be more matured in one's thinking. I'm talking about those that are consumed by archaic ideologies - so, not to take offense. Its not about maintaining the divide nor the long-standing divisions. Just perhaps, Trump presence is moving toward having this world come more together.




.

[awakeningmom]

But I DO understand your feelings about potential risk of terrorism. I just can't determine what those risks are. They seem low to me but I could be mistaken. It seems to me the U.S is pretty darned careful about who it lets into the country, particularly if they are from the Middle East.

And even as careful as we are... for example, in the last 5-7 years or so:

we let in the underwear bomber (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/22/us/politics/anwar-awlaki-underwear-bomber-abdulmutallab.html?_r=0) (IMO probably a patsy.. but no proof)

We let in the Boston marathon bombers (https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/04/how-boston-bombing-suspects-became-us-citizens/316082/)

We let in people from the San Bernadino school shooting (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_San_Bernardino_attack#Raheel_Farook.2C_Tatiana_Farook.2C_and_Mariya_Chernykh)

We let the Minnesota mall stabber in (http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/18/us/minnesota-mall-stabbing/)

we let in the Ohio state staber (http://www.dailywire.com/news/11125/things-you-need-know-about-ohio-state-shootings-hank-berrien)

we let in the chattanooga shooter (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/12/16/chattanooga-shooting-terror-attack-fbi-director-james-comey-says.html)

And that list doubles if you include 2nd generation Muslims or Islamic converts inside the US.

Now I do agree this is a fairly small number of fatalities, we have much more dangerous issues to deal with with in our own boarders.. but we don't need to pull an Europe and bring in more trouble... we have our own issues already.. haha




The Portland Islamic student who made the statements about the killing of those who have a different religion should have had his ass flown directly back to his country of origin, IMHO.


Forgive me, Autumn, but I don't think we could have watched the same video...

I'll assume she just read what you wrote... it could be taken that way with out reviewing the article.

Target,
I find it pretty disappointing that you are using what are almost certainly state sponsored false flag incidents/events to support your anti-Muslim sentiment. San Bernadino? Boston Bombing? As if the Tsarnev brothers were anything more than alphabet agent patsies, just like the "19 Muslim hijackers" of 9/11." Yes, they might have been the Muslim/Arab faces plastered on MSM, but the forces behind them were almost certainly not Muslim/Arab. I thought we were all beyond the official narratives here.

And speaking of the "19 hijackers," how is it that DJT, who has openly accused Saudi Arabia of its involvement in 9/11, is now signing $110 Billion arms deals with Saudi Arabia? I'm eager to hear this one explained away with straight faces.

Of the 6 attacks I listed I'd say it was half and half on "authentic incidents" and "incidents the US either highly encouraged or helped to cause".

Not really sure why it's disappointing, the half that seem real are bad enough and the "encouraged" ones... well encouragement doesn't work if those base feelings and ideas aren't already present; besides NOT allowing mass immigration or "sanctuary" would not hurt, only help in many ways as currently these two cultures are not compatible.

And I'd wager to bet that nearly ALL of them were some form of state sponsored terrorism, with convenient low intelligence patsies. Including Paris. And any other time we get an "Allah Akbar" message that is conveniently left at the scene of the crime (e.g., in Boston, in a boat, scrawled with a pencil conveniently left in the boat, and found a month after the whole incident, if I recall). Which ones seem "real" to you? And my point is that you seem to suggest that these people were let in through "normal" immigration or travel channels, when it seems pretty clear that those who were not US Citizens already were brought in through abnormal channels to achieve the goals of synthetic terrorism (as Webster Tarpley describes in his excellent analysis on 911), namely: the goals of scapegoating Muslims and allowing a convenient excuse for Western acts of aggression/violence/destruction in the Middle East in order to plunder its resources (which of course includes women and children for human trafficking, along with the oil and other natural resources).

It's "disappointing" because you are using suspect examples of terrorism/violence to support your theory that Muslims are particularly violent, using events/incidents that were clearly orchestrated by non-Muslims to achieve that very blame-the-Muslims purpose.

[awakeningmom]

I find it pretty disappointing that you are using what are almost certainly state sponsored false flag incidents/events to support your anti-Muslim sentiment. San Bernadino? Boston Bombing? As if the Tsarnev brothers were anything more than alphabet agent patsies, just like the "19 Muslim hijackers" of 9/11." Yes, they might have been the Muslim/Arab faces plastered on MSM, but the forces behind them were almost certainly not Muslim/Arab. I thought we were all beyond the official narratives here.

Yes. Let us not lose sight of exactly who the real terrorists are.
Certainly correct to call this terrorism State sponsored...
I would go a bit further to call it "Deep State Sponsored Terroism".

Yes, words are important. Words & their definitions are important. Words may look similar, may even sound very similar... and yet, have very different meanings. Words like 'Islam, Islamic, Islamist, Islamism. Essentially, a proper debate / discussion would be best to wrap one's mind around the distinct differences, and have a more clear understanding of "Islam vs Islamism."

Islamism is a concept whose meaning has been debated in both public and academic contexts.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamism#cite_note-Poljarevic-def-1) The term can refer to diverse forms of social and political activism advocating that public and political life should be guided by Islamic principles, or more specifically to movements which call for full implementation of sharia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia). It is commonly used interchangeably with the terms political Islam or Islamic fundamentalism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_fundamentalism). --Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamism)


What's the difference between Islam & Islamism?
(Published on Jan 11, 2015)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Bbshln8DKs



And speaking of the "19 hijackers," how is it that DJT, who has openly accused Saudi Arabia of its involvement in 9/11, is now signing $110 Billion arms deals with Saudi Arabia? I'm eager to hear this one explained away with straight faces.

Secondly, it may be good to go over the speech Trump gave to the Saudi royals...


Judge Jeanine on Trump's Saudi Gamble, 1643 (https://youtu.be/4b8HMFs7DYM?t=1m49s)
(Published on May 22, 2017)
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/4b8HMFs7DYM/hqdefault.jpg
VIDEO (https://youtu.be/4b8HMFs7DYM?t=1m49s)

Perhaps, it is the time to grow up & be more matured in one's thinking. I'm talking about those that are consumed by archaic ideologies - so, not to take offense. Its not about maintaining the divide nor the long-standing divisions. Just perhaps, Trump presence is moving toward having this world come more together.




.

Sorry Turiya, I know how deluded you are about Trump, and it's no use arguing with you and the rest of the posters on here who can't see what DJT really is. I guess I just don't get how people who understand the entire history of the Deep State can possibly think that DJT is some lone cowboy hero trying to "make the world come more together." Doesn't matter that he bombed Syria and hasn't prosecuted HRC or investigated her crimes and wants to nominate a neocon to head the FBI. Doesn't matter that DJT appears to be making a pilgrimage of the NWO strongholds in his first official global tour. I think it would take DJT appointing HRC to be FBI director for those of you still on the Trump train to finally understand you've been conned. He is NOT your friend. He is NOT helping the little folks. The fix is and has been in. You've been "trumped."

IMO, DJT's speech in Saudi Arabia was ridiculous/hypocritical, particularly for someone who allegedly believes that country helped orchestrate the worst terrorist attack against our/"his" people in our history. Is that what we do? Give multi-billion dollar arms deals to those who allegedly attacked us? Tough non-interventionist "populist" talk as a candidate; war-mongering NWO business as usual as President.

[TargeT]

It's "disappointing" because you are using suspect examples of terrorism/violence to support your theory that Muslims are particularly violent, using events/incidents that were clearly orchestrated by non-Muslims to achieve that very blame-the-Muslims purpose.

yea, I'm a stickler for data points, and I don't weigh personal testimony as heavily.. so the same goes for how I back up my statements.

we've heard at least 2 people in this thread, in this tiny internet forum that have had extremely violent negative interactions with followers of Islam ( I don't count myself because I was wearing a military uniform at the time, so kind of fair game i guess? I will say that I never shot first, or usually even second.) Just by the numbers (and assuming accuracy) that's a pretty significant number as well.

I won't even use the Turkey ambassador incident because I think that was encouraged to happen (but the key word there is encouraged, that is important and does bear consideration.)



IMO, DJT's speech in Saudi Arabia was ridiculous/hypocritical, particularly for someone who allegedly believes that country helped orchestrate the worst terrorist attack against our/"his" people in our history. Is that what we do? Give multi-billion dollar arms deals to those who allegedly attacked us? Tough non-interventionist "populist" talk as a candidate; war-mongering NWO business as usual as President.

Yeah, those arms deals are hardly a benefit to Saudi.. they are almost all benefit (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/sep/13/us-saudi-arabia-arms-deal) to us. Saudi is more like the middle eastern branch of the US (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/washington/14arms.html), we taught them how to produce oil, we force them into multi billion dollar purchases like this (https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/defence-notes/analysis-saudi-arabia-close-customer-part-2-air/) (be it from Boeing, Lockheed, name your favorite military industrial complex mega corp (https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/landwarfareintl/analysis-saudi-arabia-difficult-customer/)) which existentially is a bribe back home for who ever closes the deal (doubt DJT had much to do with it other than standing in front of a camera as it closed).

Presidents are like substitute teachers, it might seem like they are in charge; but they really don't effect much lasting change.

[Chester]

Sorry Turiya, I know how deluded you are about Trump, and it's no use arguing with you and the rest of the posters on here who can't see what DJT really is. I guess I just don't get how people who understand the entire history of the Deep State can possibly think that DJT is some lone cowboy hero trying to "make the world come more together." Doesn't matter that he bombed Syria and hasn't prosecuted HRC or investigated her crimes and wants to nominate a neocon to head the FBI. Doesn't matter that DJT appears to be making a pilgrimage of the NWO strongholds in his first official global tour. I think it would take DJT appointing HRC to be FBI director for those of you still on the Trump train to finally understand you've been conned. He is NOT your friend. He is NOT helping the little folks. The fix is and has been in. You've been "trumped."

IMO, DJT's speech in Saudi Arabia was ridiculous/hypocritical, particularly for someone who allegedly believes that country helped orchestrate the worst terrorist attack against our/"his" people in our history. Is that what we do? Give multi-billion dollar arms deals to those who allegedly attacked us? Tough non-interventionist "populist" talk as a candidate; war-mongering NWO business as usual as President.

He isn't some lone cowboy by the way... I think you are forgetting about the millions of deplorables too, yes?

N2IAo_r6Gms

Each day there's more and more winning... it just doesn't stop and I think that's what gets to some folks more than anything.

daOH-pTd_nk

[awakeningmom]

It's "disappointing" because you are using suspect examples of terrorism/violence to support your theory that Muslims are particularly violent, using events/incidents that were clearly orchestrated by non-Muslims to achieve that very blame-the-Muslims purpose.

yea, I'm a stickler for data points, and I don't weigh personal testimony as heavily.. so the same goes for how I back up my statements.

we've heard at least 2 people in this thread, in this tiny internet forum that have had extremely violent negative interactions with followers of Islam ( I don't count myself because I was wearing a military uniform at the time, so kind of fair game i guess? I will say that I never shot first, or usually even second.) Just by the numbers (and assuming accuracy) that's a pretty significant number as well.

I won't even use the Turkey ambassador incident because I think that was encouraged to happen (but the key word there is encouraged, that is important and does bear consideration.)



IMO, DJT's speech in Saudi Arabia was ridiculous/hypocritical, particularly for someone who allegedly believes that country helped orchestrate the worst terrorist attack against our/"his" people in our history. Is that what we do? Give multi-billion dollar arms deals to those who allegedly attacked us? Tough non-interventionist "populist" talk as a candidate; war-mongering NWO business as usual as President.

Yeah, those arms deals are hardly a benefit to Saudi.. they are almost all benefit (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/sep/13/us-saudi-arabia-arms-deal) to us. Saudi is more like the middle eastern branch of the US (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/washington/14arms.html), we taught them how to produce oil, we force them into multi billion dollar purchases like this (https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/defence-notes/analysis-saudi-arabia-close-customer-part-2-air/) (be it from Boeing, Lockheed, name your favorite military industrial complex mega corp (https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/landwarfareintl/analysis-saudi-arabia-difficult-customer/)) which existentially is a bribe back home for who ever closes the deal (doubt DJT had much to do with it other than standing in front of a camera as it closed).

Presidents are like substitute teachers, it might seem like they are in charge; but they really don't effect much lasting change.

I don't even know what you mean by you saying you are a "stickler for data points"? You are relying on clearly suspect and likely erroneous "data points" to support your argument. If you are saying that "WE" (meaning our immigration services/customs/traditional routes of US entry) have already made mistakes by letting in violent Muslims who end up committing terrorist acts against us, but then you list numerous false flag incidents of synthetic terrorism for support, where the supposed Muslim terrorist was likely a patsy set up by non-Muslim agents and deliberately brought into this country by non-Muslim alphabet agents, you are hardly making a logical/credible argument. How does this false/incorrect data support your argument that we need to be more careful in letting in Muslims via our customs/immigration services at all?

And using a small "data point" consisting of anecdotal evidence of two members who had violent/negative experiences with followers of Islam to support a generalized view of all Muslims/Followers of Islam is absurd. I once taught a class where I had seven Saudi nationals in it - five men and two women. They were all respectful, intelligent, personable human beings -- at least from what I experienced. Maybe that means that ALL Saudi Nationals are respectful, intelligent and personable?

And I assume when you experienced your own violent interactions with Muslims/Followers of Islam while in your uniform, you were presumably representing the Aggressor/Colonizer on their own soil -- supporting a war against a country that never attacked us first.

[awakeningmom]

Sorry Turiya, I know how deluded you are about Trump, and it's no use arguing with you and the rest of the posters on here who can't see what DJT really is. I guess I just don't get how people who understand the entire history of the Deep State can possibly think that DJT is some lone cowboy hero trying to "make the world come more together." Doesn't matter that he bombed Syria and hasn't prosecuted HRC or investigated her crimes and wants to nominate a neocon to head the FBI. Doesn't matter that DJT appears to be making a pilgrimage of the NWO strongholds in his first official global tour. I think it would take DJT appointing HRC to be FBI director for those of you still on the Trump train to finally understand you've been conned. He is NOT your friend. He is NOT helping the little folks. The fix is and has been in. You've been "trumped."

IMO, DJT's speech in Saudi Arabia was ridiculous/hypocritical, particularly for someone who allegedly believes that country helped orchestrate the worst terrorist attack against our/"his" people in our history. Is that what we do? Give multi-billion dollar arms deals to those who allegedly attacked us? Tough non-interventionist "populist" talk as a candidate; war-mongering NWO business as usual as President.

He isn't some lone cowboy by the way... I think you are forgetting about the millions of deplorables too, yes?

N2IAo_r6Gms

Each day there's more and more winning... it just doesn't stop and I think that's what gets to some folks more than anything.

daOH-pTd_nk

Sam, sorry, but just how are the "millions of deplorables" changing the world for the better -- or making any impact on foreign/domestic policy that helps us regular middle/working class folk and/or stops the NWO? Are we staying out of Middle Eastern conflicts? Are we not engaging in any more false flag acts of terrorism? Are we coming clean about who ISIS really is? Are we prosecuting the pedos? Is HRC going to jail? Is Podesta? Have we chosen a director of the FBI who will actually re-open an investigation into Pedogate? Have we required GMO labeling or stopped genetic engineering of our food supply entirely? Have we stopped harmful mandatory vaccinations both in and out of the military? Have we come clean about 911 or even reopened an investigation?

No, didn't think so. When will y'all recognize your own cognitive dissonance over what you thought DJT would do....and what he's actually doing.

[AutumnW]

Awakening Mom,

I think all but the most stubborn Trump supporters agree with you that everything changed after the election. I am totally with Target on the substitute teacher comparison. Presidents are figureheads now, nothing more. I am totally with you that Trump EVER gave a hot damn about anything other than 'winning.' And I'm on record here, on this forum, pre-election, with my predictions for 'his' foreign policy. The only mistake I made was underestimating how extreme the turnaround would be. Gave me whiplash.

[awakeningmom]

Hi Autumn,
I mostly agree with the substitute teacher analogy too, to the extent that I don't think Trump can really do/change anything, even if he wanted to (and I never believed he really wanted to anyway. He's an elite, and his primary objective is to remain an elite and to keep the elite class/elite deviance going). But that's my whole point: I don't see how people who claim to know 9/11 was a false flag operation and who have gone down the Deep State rabbit hole (or even read Jim Marr's Rule by Secrecy) can possibly believe that Trump is there as a surprise populist making the centuries-old PTB shake in their murderous, power and wealth-beyond-our-wildest-dreams boots. It was most certainly a different group of "deplorables" who put DJT there than the ones Sam is referencing.

[Chester]

What's going to happen if the US economy actually turns around for the better for folks in the US?

What's going to happen if the US remains as it is now, far safer than Europe and gets even safer than it has been for most folks in the US?

What's going to happen if gangs like MS-13 actually find their ranks depleted because most end up deported and/or in prison?

What's going to happen if a border wall gets built and the drug traffic gets reduced and "other drug rouites" become exposed?

What's going to happen if VISA overstays become reduced because US laws become enforced?

What's going to happen when the wall is built, the laws and policies are enforced and everyone in the US illegally is given a legitimate opportunity to gain legal residency and remain (if they want) in the US unless of course you are a violent criminal?

To folks here in the US - What's going to happen if your sister can now get a job again? Your father can now get a job again? Your daughter can now get a job again? Your brother can now get a job again, etc., etc. etc.?

What's going to happen if your business can now land contracts which your business can actually fulfill because of the lifting of all the onerous regulations that prevented this in the past 8 years?

What's going to happen when your kid can finally get a meal at school they actually want to eat?

What's going to happen when your kid, based on your efforts in working towards making sure your child can go to a school best suited for your child and which you desire your child to go to is suddenly your choice again?

What's going to happen when threatening nations start to respect the US (ooops this is actually already happening....)

What's going to happen when healthcare reform incorporates each and every individual's personal responsibility to do their own part based on their own realistic abilities while ensuring those with pre-existing conditions have healthcare yet within a system that doesn't break the back of the taxpayer? As opposed to a system that was meant to implode right about now and was put in place by those deluded enough to think that the American people would vote in another Obama or worse because the planned solution was "single payer"?

What's going to happen when folks who can work actually have to go to work where they may just discover something they never even thought was meaningful? Self respect?

What's going to happen when all that happens but you aren't an American and so all that winning just pisses you off more and more instead of being happy that a nation of folks finally took back their sovereignty and lived up to personal responsibility?

I think Trump is right... I might actually get tired of all that winning... for a few minutes at least.

[awakeningmom]

I admire your optimism, Sam. I just don't share it. And again just don't understand how someone as perceptive as you on so many other issues on this forum can't see through the lies, the deceptions, and the business as usual that's going on right now with DJT. Or maybe the issues that are most important to you are not the ones that are most important to me. I'd like to drain the swamp of the murderous pedophiles as the very first line of business. I'd like every single American to understand what happened on 911 and to never let that happen again. Cleaning up the incredible darkness at the top is the only way, in my opinion, to "Make America Great Again" (not sure it ever was GREAT, but it sure seemed better). And I just don't see it happening.

[Chester]

Sam, sorry, but just how are the "millions of deplorables" changing the world for the better -- or making any impact on foreign/domestic policy that helps us regular middle/working class folk and/or stops the NWO? Are we staying out of Middle Eastern conflicts? Are we not engaging in any more false flag acts of terrorism? Are we coming clean about who ISIS really is? Are we prosecuting the pedos? Is HRC going to jail? Is Podesta? Have we chosen a director of the FBI who will actually re-open an investigation into Pedogate? Have we required GMO labeling or stopped genetic engineering of our food supply entirely? Have we stopped harmful mandatory vaccinations both in and out of the military? Have we come clean about 911 or even reopened an investigation?

No, didn't think so. When will y'all recognize your own cognitive dissonance over what you thought DJT would do....and what he's actually doing.

I think I just look at the world... how this world works, how it changes... and, because I approach things like an odds maker, I look at things with an eye to what is more realistic and what is less realistic. Take Seth Rich for example - he wanted to change the world and... well, he did perhaps. BUT, he had just one shot and now he's dead. Some folks realize that they could do a lot more over a much longer period of time and so perhaps they take baby steps, one by one by one where, over time, they accomplish far more than what your ideals (as well as mine) might think needs to be done and done now.

There's no way anyone is ever going to come clean regarding JFK and so what are the cahnces that happens with 9/11? Do you think its realistic to take down the Clinton machine (and its legacies) by holding their feet to the fire for the Lolita Express, Mena, Arkansas, Whitewater... the trail of dead folks, the Uranium deal and all the pay for play BS and even if you did, it would do nothing but satisfy the same sort of folks that used to go watch public hangings and just like killing off the head of Al-Qaeda or ISIS (ISIL/Daesh) you'll just get a new guy tomorrow...

I like long winning streaks and this is what has begun the day Trump was inaugurated and his magic pen began to sign and rescind and then when Neil Gorsuch was confirmed... "Ballgame!" was heard echoing across the wilderness.

[AutumnW]

Hi Autumn,
I mostly agree with the substitute teacher analogy too, to the extent that I don't think Trump can really do/change anything, even if he wanted to (and I never believed he really wanted to anyway. He's an elite, and his primary objective is to remain an elite and to keep the elite class/elite deviance going). But that's my whole point: I don't see how people who claim to know 9/11 was a false flag operation and who have gone down the Deep State rabbit hole (or even read Jim Marr's Rule by Secrecy) can possibly believe that Trump is there as a surprise populist making the centuries-old PTB shake in their murderous, power and wealth-beyond-our-wildest-dreams boots. It was most certainly a different group of "deplorables" who put DJT there than the ones Sam is referencing.

Agreed. I think it has to do with the fact that people (including me) don't quite know the who what where and how of the 'deep state.'

I figured that military intelligence, representing the overt military powers had lined up with Trump and stood a chance of defeating the letter agencies.

I was either totally wrong on that, or military intelligence is entirely fractured within a fractured military.

Or, the military is monolithic, IS lined up behind Trump and they have gotten their way. For military people who like to see planets go 'boom', it's looking awfully good!

[AutumnW]

Sam, There aren't any nations threatening the U.S. This newfound respect for the U.S. is due to its role as international bully. Trillions of dollars worth of armaments garners a lot of 'respect.'

[Chester]

Sam, There aren't any nations threatening the U.S. This newfound respect for the U.S. is due to its role as international bully. Trillions of dollars worth of armaments garners a lot of 'respect.'

When nations threaten other nations (ala NK), that threatens global stability which threatens the US. The difference between the US and most other nations is that the US has more ways to do something about it.

[turiya]

Sorry Turiya, I know how deluded you are about Trump, and it's no use arguing with you and the rest of the posters on here who can't see what DJT really is.
You are right, 'awakeningmom', there is no use arguing w/ me and the rest of us that can see what 'left'-overs, like you, can't see what this particular indivdual is about. Take off your blinders & step off the pedestal that you think you are standing on. Try walking on the Earth with your feet on the ground.

Like I had once before told other individuals - like Dennis - 'Believing that things will never change is also a kind of brainwashing' - an autohypnosis of sorts. One may consider at some time, or other, to purge oneself of the negativity that one has allowed oneself to be programmed with. Wake up to this fact. Try it & you just might like it.


I guess I just don't get how people who understand the entire history of the Deep State can possibly think that DJT is some lone cowboy hero trying to "make the world come more together."
Funny that you should say this about Donald Trump being a 'lone cowboy hero'.... There's an Irishman that I've gotten to know & became friends with. He works at a local spring water facility where I go & pickup jugs of spring water that I get for drinking purposes. I live in a college town. And, unlike so many that are utterly brainwashed by the liberal media outlets, he is one of us 'deplorables' that are keenly aware & paying attention. I said to him, "So Deck, how is every thing looking from where you are sitting?"

He goes, "Man, this guy - Donald Trump - he is unbelievable! He's like a John Wayne taking on all these criminals! And, he's beating all of them off. It's incredible!" lol! I could help but laugh when he said that. And its true!

Yes, the analogy is fitting. This man is like a 'lone cowboy hero', one that only comes along every 80 years or so. He's also been called a 'Gray Champion' by Neil Howe, co-author of the book, The Fourth Turning (https://www.amazon.com/Fourth-Turning-American-Prophecy-Rendezvous/dp/0767900464).

If you were interested at all in paying attention, you might also be able to see what has been going on & what been continuously coming at him - non stop. He deals with it. He's surrounded by Washington criminals. But no, you may be one of these people that are still "shattered" by the unexpected election win. Eyes swollen, red with tears, Take off your blinders, open your eyes, and see what is going on, here & now. You may just be pleasantly surprised, once you get over the negativity & frustration of not getting what you wanted.

First of all - face it! You got Berned! He ended up supporting 'Crooked Hillary' - the queen of corruption!

Now, move along, grab a bag of popcorn & watch the show... which involves taking out the Deep State, getting this country off of foreign oil & having it become part of the Asian Silk Road trade route, preparing this country for the economic collapse, and all the while... moving this country away from & out of being the policman of the world - those days are gone. Sit back, eat your popcorn & just try to enjoy the show...

[Chester]

I admire your optimism, Sam. I just don't share it. And again just don't understand how someone as perceptive as you on so many other issues on this forum can't see through the lies, the deceptions, and the business as usual that's going on right now with DJT. Or maybe the issues that are most important to you are not the ones that are most important to me. I'd like to drain the swamp of the murderous pedophiles as the very first line of business. I'd like every single American to understand what happened on 911 and to never let that happen again. Cleaning up the incredible darkness at the top is the only way, in my opinion, to "Make America Great Again" (not sure it ever was GREAT, but it sure seemed better). And I just don't see it happening.

See these posts (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?97841-DNC-So-the-wagons-are-circling-on-the-Seth-Rich-Story-may-he-rest-in-peace-&p=1154621&viewfull=1#post1154621) and then consider the seriousness of what the entire world is up against... its not going to go away with ideologically based expectations of perfection from anyone... Sean Hannity, for now, backed down despite his desire to go forward. The family of Seth Rish essentially implored Hannity to back down. This is the reality of our world. People can be made to be afraid and then... they back down. Those who don't, often end up dead or worse... their loved ones dead.

I accept that this is our world because I have no choice. But I also believe that change, one step at a time, can be for the better and I understand the chess game played by folks like Trump at the highest levels of the world chess game.

Take for example "the Syria strike / MOAB" back to back events. Look at how little damage all that actually caused. Yet look at the effect. This was "the best worst choice" as that's all he was handed... terrible choices. He knows it was probably a FF. But he also knows he either better play to stay in the game or... [your imagination can fill in the blanks].

[awakeningmom]

Sorry Turiya, I know how deluded you are about Trump, and it's no use arguing with you and the rest of the posters on here who can't see what DJT really is.
You are right, 'awakeningmom', there is no use arguing w/ me and the rest of us that can see what 'left'-overs, like you, can't see what this particular indivdual is about. Take off your blinders & step off the pedestal that you think you are standing on. Try walking on the Earth with your feet on the ground.

Like I had once before told other individuals - like Dennis - 'Believing that things will never change is also a kind of brainwashing' - an autohypnosis of sorts. One may consider at some time, or other, to purge oneself of the negativity that one has allowed oneself to be programmed with. Wake up to this fact. Try it & you just might like it.


I guess I just don't get how people who understand the entire history of the Deep State can possibly think that DJT is some lone cowboy hero trying to "make the world come more together."
Funny that you should say this about Donald Trump being a 'lone cowboy hero'.... There's an Irishman that I've gotten to know & became friends with. He works at a local spring water facility where I go & pickup jugs of spring water that I get for drinking purposes. I live in a college town. And, unlike so many that are utterly brainwashed by the liberal media outlets, he is one of us 'deplorables' that are keenly aware & paying attention. I said to him, "So Deck, how is every thing looking from where you are sitting?"

He goes, "Man, this guy - Donald Trump - he is unbelievable! He's like a John Wayne taking on all these criminals! And, he's beating all of them off. It's incredible!" lol! I could help but laugh when he said that. And its true!

Yes, the analogy is fitting. This man is like a 'lone cowboy hero', one that only comes along every 80 years or so. He's also been called a 'Gray Champion' by Neil Howe, co-author of the book, The Fourth Turning (https://www.amazon.com/Fourth-Turning-American-Prophecy-Rendezvous/dp/0767900464).

If you were interested at all in paying attention, you might also be able to see what has been going on & what been continuously coming at him - non stop. He deals with it. He's surrounded by Washington criminals. But no, you may be one of these people that are still "shattered" by the unexpected election win. Eyes swollen, red with tears, Take off your blinders, open your eyes, and see what is going on, here & now. You may just be pleasantly surprised, once you get over the negativity & frustration of not getting what you wanted.

First of all - face it! You got Berned! He ended up supporting 'Crooked Hillary' - the queen of corruption!

Now, move along, grab a bag of popcorn & watch the show... which involves taking out the Deep State, getting this country off of foreign oil & having it become part of the Asian Silk Road trade route, preparing this country for the economic collapse, and all the while... moving this country away from & out of being the policman of the world - those days are gone. Sit back, eat your popcorn & just try to enjoy the show...

Turiya, it's hard to take a guy who posts youtube videos from right wing Limited Hangouts in support of his position telling me to "take off my blinders" and "get my feet on the ground" too seriously. I will trust that I am at least as "well informed" as you are -- and unlike you, I don't have a hero in the race to champion. And I guess you haven't read my posts very carefully if you think I just didn't get what I wanted and am now just frustrated. Do you think I wanted the criminal HRC in charge? No, I want her in JAIL, where candidate DJT had said he would put her, but as President DJT won't do jack. And nope, not a Bernie fan either. Because they are ALL compromised, and they are ALL puppets run by the same Deep State hands. Also, I wasn't surprised by the DJT win in the slightest; nor was I shattered, since the "alternative" was just as bad. On election night, I made popcorn, sat back, and watched the show unfold....because that's what this is...theater.

I'm not sure how sharing the story of the local spring water guy lends credibility or strengthens your position? Perhaps he draws from the same hopium pipe you are smoking?

I don't want to be stuck in the negative, just calling it like I see it. It's depressing as hell. I guess we can both look back in a year at these posts and see who was closer to the truth about DJT. But if your hero turns out to be on the dark side, will you simply justify/rationalize it and say he was pressured/blackmailed/threatened....? Does he get a forever pass, no matter the political/economic/military choices he (apparently) makes?

[awakeningmom]

Sam, sorry, but just how are the "millions of deplorables" changing the world for the better -- or making any impact on foreign/domestic policy that helps us regular middle/working class folk and/or stops the NWO? Are we staying out of Middle Eastern conflicts? Are we not engaging in any more false flag acts of terrorism? Are we coming clean about who ISIS really is? Are we prosecuting the pedos? Is HRC going to jail? Is Podesta? Have we chosen a director of the FBI who will actually re-open an investigation into Pedogate? Have we required GMO labeling or stopped genetic engineering of our food supply entirely? Have we stopped harmful mandatory vaccinations both in and out of the military? Have we come clean about 911 or even reopened an investigation?

No, didn't think so. When will y'all recognize your own cognitive dissonance over what you thought DJT would do....and what he's actually doing.

I think I just look at the world... how this world works, how it changes... and, because I approach things like an odds maker, I look at things with an eye to what is more realistic and what is less realistic. Take Seth Rich for example - he wanted to change the world and... well, he did perhaps. BUT, he had just one shot and now he's dead. Some folks realize that they could do a lot more over a much longer period of time and so perhaps they take baby steps, one by one by one where, over time, they accomplish far more than what your ideals (as well as mine) might think needs to be done and done now.

There's no way anyone is ever going to come clean regarding JFK and so what are the cahnces that happens with 9/11? Do you think its realistic to take down the Clinton machine (and its legacies) by holding their feet to the fire for the Lolita Express, Mena, Arkansas, Whitewater... the trail of dead folks, the Uranium deal and all the pay for play BS and even if you did, it would do nothing but satisfy the same sort of folks that used to go watch public hangings and just like killing off the head of Al-Qaeda or ISIS (ISIL/Daesh) you'll just get a new guy tomorrow...

I like long winning streaks and this is what has begun the day Trump was inaugurated and his magic pen began to sign and rescind and then when Neil Gorsuch was confirmed... "Ballgame!" was heard echoing across the wilderness.

But Sam, if there's "no way anyone is ever going to come clean" (about JFK, 9/11, etc....) then who are the good guys? How do you recognize them? What do they do to make themselves good? If the Clinton machine can't be taken down, and just continues on it merry way to its next criminal enterprise (human trafficking, open pedophilia etc.), then aren't the PTB just multiple criminal cabals in-fighting with one another over who gets the (most) spoils and who gets to be the Godfather of them all, with little concern for the lives of the rest of us?

And if we are ok with that, and accepting of that, then aren't we just as impotent/useless as the "normies" who are simply fighting over the issues we've been trained to fight over all of our lives as Republicans/Democrats? (e.g., less/more taxes, gay/no gay marriage, big military/reduced military, free market/safety net, etc....). Isn't part of being part of a science/spirituality/conspiracy forum an attempt to understand, dissect, and transcend the false matrix, with its false left-right paradigm and its false official narratives that keep us from focusing on the true battle at hand here?

I'm beyond "it's the Economy, Stupid." No, it's not.

[turiya]

http://www.phillip-butler.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/127.jpg

____________________________

http://www.turkheritage.org/Uploads/the_hill_logo.jpeg
Trump wins endorsement of
John Wayne's daughter (http://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/266302-trump-wins-endorsement-of-john-waynes-daughter)

By Ben Kamisar
01/19/16

http://thehill.com/sites/default/files/blogs/aissawaynetrump_011916getty.jpg

The daughter of acclaimed move star John Wayne lauded Donald Trump as a candidate evocative of her late father as she endorsed him at an event Tuesday.

"America needs help and we need a strong leader. We need someone, like Mr. Trump, with leadership qualities, someone with courage, someone that's strong — like John Wayne," Aissa Wayne told the audience at an event with Trump at the John Wayne Birthplace Museum in Winterset, Iowa.

"If John Wayne were around, he’d be standing right here.”

Trump later praised Aissa Wayne for her endorsement, joking about whether the iconic star of Westerns including "True Grit" would have approved of the endorsement.

"John Wayne would be very proud of you right now, I think? Maybe he would say, 'What are you doing?'" Trump said.

Trump went on to note that he's a "long-time fan" of John Wayne and said that he met the actor before his death in 1979.

"I met him one time and it made such an impression. When you talk about bigger than life, there aren't too many people bigger than life," Trump said.

"He said some things to me that were very special."

Ethan Wayne, the president of John Wayne Enterprises, noted in a statement that Aissa Wayne "acted independently of both organizations and the Wayne family in her endorsement of Donald Trump."
"No one can speak on behalf of John Wayne and neither the family nor the Foundation endorses candidates in his name," he added.


_____________________________


On election night, I made popcorn, sat back, and watched the show unfold....because that's what this is...theater.
I am glad to read that you were entertained through the election night process. Trump makes himself an easy target, being as animated a character as he is.


I'm not sure how sharing the story of the local spring water guy lends credibility or strengthens your position?

It just shows that you are not alone in using this kind analogous picture of Donald Trump. Including this story in a reply to you is an offer for you to keep the conversation / discussion on the lighter side, rather than getting bogged down with flavoring it with the weight that comes along with being so serious regarding a theater show.... along the lines of... "being in the world, and not having the world be in you".

Keeping a sense of humor handy would be a good thing to keep close, especially with the oncoming onslaught that is already making its appearance known on this side of the horizon.

Just a thought....

[turiya]

Caravan to Midnite Philip Haney, Former DHS Whistleblower May 10, 2017 Interview...


Philip Haney: 'See Something, Say Nothing' Inteview
(May 10, 2017)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1hfQ2H9e4A
Philip Haney, one of the founding officers of Homeland Security (ret.) starts off telling us his views on how ‘the swamp’ should be drained…

[Chester]

But Sam, if there's "no way anyone is ever going to come clean" (about JFK, 9/11, etc....) then who are the good guys? How do you recognize them? What do they do to make themselves good? If the Clinton machine can't be taken down, and just continues on it merry way to its next criminal enterprise (human trafficking, open pedophilia etc.), then aren't the PTB just multiple criminal cabals in-fighting with one another over who gets the (most) spoils and who gets to be the Godfather of them all, with little concern for the lives of the rest of us?

And if we are ok with that, and accepting of that, then aren't we just as impotent/useless as the "normies" who are simply fighting over the issues we've been trained to fight over all of our lives as Republicans/Democrats? (e.g., less/more taxes, gay/no gay marriage, big military/reduced military, free market/safety net, etc....). Isn't part of being part of a science/spirituality/conspiracy forum an attempt to understand, dissect, and transcend the false matrix, with its false left-right paradigm and its false official narratives that keep us from focusing on the true battle at hand here?

I'm beyond "it's the Economy, Stupid." No, it's not.

What I perceive within many of your recent posts is what I call, "black and whiteism." One might also see it as presentation of a "binary choice." What I tried to suggest is that there's far more "feet on the ground" reality when one looks at all possibility between two extremes.

I, personally, would love that the world suddenly magically transform as to how my wife and I engage/interact with each other as its really, really good, really really loving, really really respectful, really really appreciative of each other, there's no abuse ever, there's kindness day and night between each other, there's affection and love making... its just absolutely beautiful.

But when I am realistic, I realize that the chances the world becomes a reflection of the relationship my wife and I experience... that if it ever achieves the dynamic my marital relationship has achieved, it will most likely only happen step by step and in baby steps.

I want folks in charge who step in the direction I perceive as having the greatest chance that one day the world reflects my own desire which is what Cristina and I have manifested on our tiny little two person level. And the only person that has been in this whole political scene over the last few years that I perceive to step in this direction is Donald J. Trump.

I cannot communicate this any clearer.

What I can add and say from experience is that when I have attempted to achieve lofty goals, I had to start at the end or the bottom and work myself step by step towards that goal and I had to do so in a way I would not 'fall on my own sword' as they say or get myself ousted or killed not because I am afraid for my life (would I make the posts I make here as I do if I were? Would I use my real name? State my location?) I wouldn't want to go too far because I would realize that if I were depowered or snuffed out, the chances that the goals I hold dear to and that I desire to see met would likely be reduced and perhaps, greatly reduced.

If (and most here believe and in speaking for myself, I certainly am 'open minded about) Saudi Arabia played a role in 9/11 (as well as Mossad, elements within the US intel, military and governmental agencies) and if JFK was a coup by the then CIA/younger Deep State (something I most certainly bet on), I believe that if Trump tried to expose all that he would see a fate like Seth Rich or we might find ourselves in a nuke war with North Korea or we might see a few moves made by those who can that would result in a collapse of the economy (which would go global too) and the FED and politicians would ensure that it collapses as hard as it could all and only to to let Trump know further what's at stake and who (at this time) is in charge... and in fact, this is most likely exactly what the Syrian 'gas attack' was all about... a warning shot over the bow... which IMO now that time has marched on and I can look back upon... he played it the best way he could.

The world is controlled by both an 'above the table' loosely connected set of groups of humans that are pretty clearly now (Thank You DJT) connected with a 'media' that twists what they wish for you to see then think and conclude and all of this is connected with deep state groupifications that are also then connected with all sorts of under the table groups and no single group much less small set of individuals are at the top and in fact this very structure is what ensures the longevity of the life of this very monster.

And now I will extend into a deeper "opinion" (I emphasize that all this is is just opinion)

Underlying it all is human beings and what we are all (and for each of us to varying degrees) capable of thinking, speaking/writing and doing. And all of this is founded by intention and intention is, at least in large part, driven by attitude.

When the majority of folks have an attitude of gratitude for this strange experience we call life but which is actually (a metaphor here) an entrance into a virtual reality where one takes on the persona of a character which is partially determined by the genetic entity one incarnates within and their own being (which I call the spirit being which is then effected by this thing we call 'soul'). Each and every individual has the wonderful opportunity to chose the earthly material and usually far more selfish choices and/or has the opportunity to walk the path of meaning (which is a soul journey IMO) and most of us are somewhere between the two extremes.

My above view is foundational to my "odds making" with regards to what I might give the best chances to when it comes to various baby steps as I see very little if any chance that everyone suddenly decides life should be all and only about "meaningfulness at the level of the soul." Some folks think what is far more and maybe only meaningful for them is based on material matters, whether those be purely selfish or for their family and loved ones or... as we see the good hearted within the liberal left... good for all. Yet void of meaning at the level of the soul which, for me... is where all the real action takes place and resides.

[turiya]

In other words, Existence provides for whatever is needed at the time of its being needed. If one thinks that they have control over their own existence (i.e. the ability to choose how one's life will unfold), then try telling Existence what your plans are... and then, see how that works out for you.

As a good example of this:

Existence has provided, at this particular time, that Donald Trump is to be America's president. The Deep State has attempted to tell Existence what their plans are... that Hillary should be president, that there should be more wars, a World War 3, and, that now Trump is to be their puppet to help make this all happen for them. If he chooses not to be their puppet, then there will be impeachment... If that doesn't work out, then there will be an assassination....

Be sure to pay close attention... as you will see how Existence responds to the Deep State cabal telling Existence what their plans are...

Be sure to have plenty of popcorn on hand while you enjoy seeing just how Existence manages how things will actually be played out... The Deep State cabal is simply dreaming that they are in control... Existence will also wake these people up, as well, whenever the right time for that comes into being.
In the meantime, here's more on the Radical Muslim Immigration Invasion meme....



Why Jihadis Attack Concerts:
Understanding the Manchester Massacre
(Published on May 23, 2017)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFo_rR90Tr8

Published on May 23, 2017

On the four-year anniversary of the murder of British soldier Lee Rigby by two converts to Islam, a Muslim suicide bomber named Salman Abedi attacked exiting fans at an Ariana Grande concert in Manchester, killing 22 and injuring 59 others. Can we understand this brutal attack? Only if we turn to the Muslim sources.

For more on jihad, watch these videos by David Wood:



"Three Stages of Jihad (https://youtu.be/ERou_Q5l9Gw)":



"The Jihad Triangle (https://youtu.be/QjvfaZIDLCg)":



"Understanding Vehicular Jihad (https://youtu.be/_oFzQSMSVgI)":



"The Two Faces of Islam: Why All Muslims Benefit from Terrorism (https://youtu.be/ObIThAi07Tg)":



"France's Recipe for Endless Islamic Terror (https://youtu.be/k6ePVxRLDM0)":


___________________________________

Related News:
Snyder: Desperate Liberals Try To Blame The Manchester Terror Attack On Anyone Other Than Islamic Terrorists (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-24/snyder-desperate-liberals-try-blame-manchester-terror-attack-anyone-other-islamic-te)
ZeroHedge
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/fp_thumb/images/user3303/imageroot/20170524_libs.jpg (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-24/snyder-desperate-liberals-try-blame-manchester-terror-attack-anyone-other-islamic-te)
"The left just can’t seem to understand that Islamic terrorists are going to try to destroy our way of life no matter how nice we are to them."

May 25, 2017 2:00 AM


San Francisco Launches Public Defender Office Dedicated To Illegal Immigrants (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-24/san-francisco-launches-public-defender-office-dedicated-illegal-immigrants)

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/fp_thumb/images/user230519/imageroot/2017.05.24%20-%20San%20Fran.JPG (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-24/san-francisco-launches-public-defender-office-dedicated-illegal-immigrants)
To our complete 'shock', the liberal bastion of California's northern shores has just announced that it will create a brand new branch of the Public Defender's office to specifically defend illegal immigrants in deportation cases. Adding insult to injury, taxpayers will have to pony up an additional $200,000 each year to cover the cost of 3 public defenders and a paralegal, all of whom will be dedicated to making sure that federal laws are ignored.

May 24, 2017 11:55 PM


"He Wanted Revenge": The Story Of The Manchester Suicide Bomber Emerges (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-24/he-wanted-revenge-story-manchester-suicide-bomber-emerges)

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/fp_thumb/images/user5/imageroot/salman%20abedi_0.jpg (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-24/he-wanted-revenge-story-manchester-suicide-bomber-emerges)
"I think he saw children—Muslim children—dying everywhere, and wanted revenge. He saw the explosives America drops on children in Syria, and he wanted revenge,” Salman Abedi's sister said. “Whether he got that is between him and God."

May 24, 2017 7:05 PM


BBC Anchor Admits "Europe Has To Get Used To Bombings" (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-23/bbc-anchor-admits-europe-has-get-used-bombings)

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/fp_thumb/images/user3303/imageroot/20170523_bbc.jpg (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-23/bbc-anchor-admits-europe-has-get-used-bombings)
"Europe is getting used to attacks like this...we have to because we are never going to be able to totally wipe this out..."

May 23, 2017 5:15 PM
.

[Chester]

If you were President of the United States and had a Congress that would put your own hand crafted bill on your desk for you to sign into law and you wanted to craft a comprehensive immigration reform, what would be the high level elements of your bill?

I am very happy to share mine. Let's see what others might come up with. Helene? You ready to contribute your comprehensive plan for reforming the entire US immigration fiasco?

[turiya]

Trump throws wrench in U.N. plan (http://www.wnd.com/2017/07/trump-throws-wrench-in-u-n-plan-to-replace-u-s-population/)
to 'replace' U.S. population (http://www.wnd.com/2017/07/trump-throws-wrench-in-u-n-plan-to-replace-u-s-population/)

http://www.wnd.com/files/2017/03/daadab-refugee-camp-kenya.jpg
Most Somali refugees start out here, at the United Nations Daadab refugee camp on the Kenya-Somalia border. Between 5.000 and 11,000 Somalis per year are sent to the United States and distributed to dozens of cities, along with thousands of other U.N.-selected ‘refugees’ from Syria, Sudan, Iraq and Afghanistan.
WASHINGTON – In the last year of his presidency, Barack Obama and his administration worked tirelessly with the United Nations to expand the definition of “refugee” to include economic migrants and drastically increase the numbers being resettled in the United States.

And he found a willing partner in the Republican-controlled Congress, which funded not only more refugees but provisions for record numbers of unaccompanied minor children, so-called UACs, showing up at the border from Central America.

In the fall of 2016 Obama hosted the U.N. Leaders’ Summit on Refugees in New York, where he and other world leaders used rhetoric strikingly similar to the concept of “replacement migration,” a U.N. plot to replace the population of a given country with migrants and “refugees” from the developing world.

WND recently reported on the scheme, revealed in a U.N. document prepared in the year 2000 entitled “Replacement Migration: Is It a Solution to Declining and Aging Populations?” (http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/migration/migration.htm)

More at the link: WND (http://www.wnd.com/2017/07/trump-throws-wrench-in-u-n-plan-to-replace-u-s-population/)

[Chester]

Trump’s Immigration Bill Will Not Pass the Senate

Sen. David Perdue (R-GA), Sen. Tom Cotton (R-AK), and Trump introduced the bill last week called the RAISE Act, which would overhaul our current legal immigration system into a “merit-based” points system, not unlike systems already in place in countries such as Canada and Australia.

read here (http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/08/07/marco-rubio-trumps-immigration-bill-will-not-pass-senate/)

[Chester]

Finally I have an opportunity to share my view.

I just caught this article -

McClatchy: Trump Aides Plot Big Immigration Deal — That Breaks a Campaign Promise - here...

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/08/22/mcclatchy-donald-trumps-aides-plot-big-immigration-deal-breaks-campaign-promise/

which links to this article - http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/white-house/article168425547.html

where you see my comment which shares the view I have held about the matter since day one and which was exactly what I told my wife (whose from Colombia) that Trump would end up doing - something I told her just after he was elected.

my comment - [click to enlarge]

36019

[Chester]

The one reply I got -

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/white-house/article168425547.html

Christine Golden
What about the American families who must compete with illegal aliens for jobs, housing, and social benefits? What about the taxpayers who must pay for their healthcare, education, and benefits? How about we do the right thing by them?


my response -

Christine Golden, I understand this completely. I have three sons in their mid twenties that are in that fight. One of them has a work partner (illegal) who my son says is a very hard worker and is paid much less than my son (has been their longer, knows the job just as well as he if not better and gets paid 30% or so less). My son also understands the "taking of personal responsibility." He understands that his parents’ generation is greatly responsible for this situation. He has a daughter and a son on the way. His conclusion is that family is supreme and that despite that folks like his work partner impact pay and jobs, the fact that this situation is at least in part the fault of America (and his parents’ generation) and that families could be torn apart, the right call is to a.) build the wall now (as much to slow the illegal drug traffic as to stop those forms of crossings) b.) be far more cautious with visas from countries that have a high rate of overstay c.) resolve with compassion the DACA and then DAPA situation by allowing them (after serious vetting) to be given residency (not citizenship and voting) (and hold them to high standards to retain that residency) then... d.) enforce the laws on the books sending the signals that the US will enforce immigration like almost every other country does (which is quite strictly).

Note I am a Trump voter and a Trump agenda supporter. Yet the above is how I would comprehensively handle the entire immigration issue.