Mandela Effect: is it real or not?

[mojo]

Hi all,
A lot of information is being produced about the Mandela effect and not sure if this has been proven true. Honestly only touched on the basic concepts and would say I'm still unsure about this until some definitive proof is available.

[East Sun]

I agree mojo,
If timelines are factual, and a lot of intelligent aware people seem to think so, then the Mandela effect
seems to also be factual.

When it comes to people saying that they remember movie lines being different I have my suspicions, not
of the people saying those things but that movies are screwed about with too often.
Movie makers run scenes many times and cut and shorten them for different releases, first for cinemas and
later for videos to go out to different places around the globe.

Mandela effect? Who knows?

[uzn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYonTBRM0VI

[Iloveyou]

If out of 10000 examples 9999 (add as many 0's or 9's as you wish) were proven false and only 1 were true or even maybe true - then it cannot be dismissed, is that right? My only example would be addidas/adidas. I swear it was addidas. But I cannot vote because I'd say: a little bit true :)


edit @uzn: yes, that information is on the net NOW.

[uzn]

it was never addidas. It comes from Adi Dassler that was his Name.
http://freelogozone.com/Data/Logo/adidas-originals-since-1949-logo-.png




http://www.adidas-group.com/media/filer_public_thumbnails/filer_public/58/ea/58ea2c0b-6129-4ee2-928d-ab7e71597dbf/1972.png__198x0_q85_crop-smart.png

[Kano]

it was never addidas. It comes from Adi Dassler that was his Name.

I think the whole point is that it was never addidas to you in your timeline. Similarly, like the thousands of South Africans that remember Nelson Mandela dying in the 80s, there were some who did not have that experience. Both perspectives were as real to the experiencer as your conviction about the spelling of Mr. Dassler's brand.

[Iloveyou]

Okay, I've found both versions on a Craigslist - equivalent, which should not be. So not convinced.

[uzn]

I think the whole point is that it was never addidas to you in your timeline. Similarly, like the thousands of South Africans that remember Nelson Mandela dying in the 80s, there were some who did not have that experience. Both perspectives were as real to the experiencer as your conviction about the spelling of Mr. Dassler's brand.

If you would do a little research you will find that the death of Mandela was written in a schoolbook where children had to write alternative stories. There was one fictive Story in there written by some child about the death of Mandela in prison. Mystery solved.

Just in case that you really want to look at the Book. It´s called "English Alive" published 1991. It´s a compilation of writings from Kids in High Schools in South America. The editors are Kathleen Heugh and Anita Kennet.

[Rawhide68]

I think it´s most of it has to do with people misremembering and companies changing Logo´s and and even brand names over the years.

But there is one Mandela effect that is undeniable in my opinion.

"Dolly's Braces"


In the Bond movie Moonraker from 1979, Jaws fall in love with a girl named Dolly and she had bracers attached to her upper teeth , smiling back to Jaws glitering garment.
I remember it well becasue I wathed the film with my friend Micke and he had a similar set of braces put in just some weeks before we watched the VHS.

Anyway now her braces are gone from all film clips ever to be found, they never existed !?
That freaks me out!

Here is a very intresting url to a guy who really investigated it in detail.

http://dolly.barriereader.co.uk/dolly.html

Update 2:nd of May

I noticed that a member from Finland "Wind" had posted about this "Dolly´s bracers" could be misremembering.

(synchronicity)

Here is a Finnsish commercial with the JAW actor Richard Kiel ,playing on the joke with Dolly´s metalliic smile flirt to Jaws.
Enjoy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BhLAWP7jGA

[Patient]

There are some things that I question my memory on - Jif/Jiffy peanut butter for example. I didn't eat it so I am not sure. Also, the company could have changed it. This is where people question the Mandela effect because commercial items could have been changed intentionally. But, if you have items in your possession that you can use to verify whether things changed or not, this is where you find the proof. There was one person who had his original VHS copy of Star Wars that he watched 1,000 times. Now he goes and finds a VCR and plays his old VHS tape to find that now C3PO has a silver leg when he recalls C3PO being all gold. (I also recall him being all gold.) Some people have a bible that has been in their possession their whole life and find that there are things in there that have changed.

I see many examples on the internet where things have changed, but it wasn't until I found my own item that solidified it for me. I have children, so we watched a lot of kid shows throughout the years. The "Berenstein Bears" was a show I saw 100's of times. It is now "Berenstain Bears". In my family, poop jokes are rampant. When the kids were young, if the show was called "BerenSTAIN Bears", we would have had many jokes about the Bears having a poop "stain" - see? But as we watched it as "Berenstein Bears" there was no joke. But i was still only testing my memory until I found a copy of the kids story book that we had stored in a box in the closet. I found it and expected to see Berenstein Bears, but the book had changed to "Berenstain Bears" and my mind reeled. No one had come into my home and changed the book. The book had changed - and it was the original story book the kids had in their possession.

I do not question whether things really did change or not, because I know they did. My question is why/how did they change and was this intentional or accidental and will there be more changes ahead?

[Patient]

I think it´s most of it has to do with people misremembering and companies changing Logo´s and and even brand names over the years.

But there is one Mandela effect that is undeniable in my opinion.

"Dolly's Braces"


In the Bond movie Moonraker from 1979, Jaws fall in love with a girl named Dolly and she had bracers attached to her upper teeth , smiling back to Jaws glitering garment.
I remember it well becasue I wathed the film with my friend Micke and he had a similar set of braces put in just some weeks before we watched the VHS.

Anyway now her braces are gone from all film clips ever to be found, they never existed !?
That freaks me out!

Here is a very intresting url to a guy who really investigated it in detail.

http://dolly.barriereader.co.uk/dolly.html

"Dolly's braces" is a really good example because with her now not having the braces, her scene in the movie does not make sense. The character "Jaws" meets her and when she smiles he falls in love with her. (He has metal teeth and due to the fact that she has braces he was attracted to her - Love at first site.) Now with her not having braces, there is no reason for that scene in the movie to play out as it does.

[Flash]

you should add

true in the English speaking world saxon world

not true in the other languages worlds

Because I have observed a real diffenrence in between English and French worlds, and I have no idea how come. But I find it strange. And I do not stop repeating this.

Maybe someone will pick up the non English speaking world ball at some point and run with it.

[Wind]

Knowing psychology quite well and after studying the "effect", I'm inclined to think it's false memory syndrome. Most humans have a terrible memory, besides savants! We are not elephants. That being said there are a few anomalies which are hard to explain, but you have to remember that when humans can't always explain something rationally it doesn't mean that there would be something earth shattering explanation behind it. Usually the most simple explanation is the truth, not woo woo. I do believe in parallel universes though.

[Innocent Warrior]

Hi Wind :waving:


Knowing psychology quite well and after studying the "effect", I'm inclined to think it's false memory syndrome.

Cool, so I'll pick your brain a bit if I may?

What does psychology offer as an explanation for when reality conflicts with highly vivid memories? What alternative theory would you suggest, other than poor memory, that's not "woo woo" (if you have any)?

Thanks in advance.

[Innocent Warrior]

If anyone else has answers to my questions to Wind I'm open to them, I've experienced the Mandela Effect but if there are convincing alternative explanations I'm interested in reading them.

* * *

Here's a Mandela Effect test. This is an iconic movie scene so there might be others here who see a change or not. Don't say anything yet if you've seen this amongst the Mandela Effect material, does anyone see anything odd in the dance scene? This video was uploaded before the emergence of the Mandela Effect material, 2008.

G2UVsyVLLcE

[RunningDeer]

Mandela Effect (Tom Cruise In Risky Business
0CHYvlL52xc

[Wind]

Hi Wind :waving:

Hi Rachel. I had a feeling I would be seeing you here. :)


What does psychology offer as an explanation for when reality conflicts with highly vivid memories? What alternative theory would you suggest, other than poor memory, that's not "woo woo" (if you have any)?

How vivid are the memories? Are you absolutely certain of remembering some things? For example, I remember the Moonraker "braces scene" too, but then again... I think that I remember the girl in the movie having braces. I am not absolutely sure that she had braces and I believe that even I am able to misremember such thing with so many other people even though I could swear that the girl absolutely had braces in the movie. Yet now she doesn't! However, that's just the only example for me personally which gives even a tiny bit of credence to the theory of Mandela Effect. I saw the movie many years ago so my memory of the movie cannot be completely accurate by any means.

The subject of past and memories is quite interesting. I, like all of us can remember things from past so very clearly and yet we have forgotten some of the things we did yesterday. To my knowledge there's no other proper alternative to mandela effect than false memory syndrome, but then again I'm not sure. Maybe others would know better. It would be exciting and interesting if in reality we actually somehow switched timelines (God knows for what reason), but that's the less beliavable option. These days I take everything with a spoon of salt instead of a pinch. I'm open-minded though, I'm just constantly asking questions and challenging things, including the illusionary reality I perceive with all of my human senses.

I found this article:
https://aeon.co/ideas/on-shared-false-memories-what-lies-behind-the-mandela-effect

"Although it might be tempting to believe that the Mandela effect is evidence that parallel realities exist or that our universe is a glitchy simulation, a true scientist must test his or her alternative hypothesis by trying to disprove it. In light of known cognitive phenomena that can give rise to shared false memories, it’s highly unlikely that some of us are actually from an alternative universe crossing timelines with the present one. Nonetheless, the Mandela effect is still a fascinating case study in the quirks of human memory. For those who love thinking about how the mind works, it is perhaps even an example of the truth being stranger than fiction."

[East Sun]

Could Mandela have been cloned?

Speaking of real or not, I have a question?

When did Bin Laden die? Was it 2001 or when whats'iz name
was running for something and we saw the raid by the
Navy Seals and he was buried at sea?

An other Mandela effect or what? What do you think?

[Patient]

How vivid are the memories? Are you absolutely certain of remembering some things? For example, I remember the Moonraker "braces scene" too, but then again... I think that I remember the girl in the movie having braces. I am not absolutely sure that she had braces and I believe that even I am able to misremember such thing with so many other people even though I could swear that the girl absolutely had braces in the movie. Yet now she doesn't! However, that's just the only example for me personally which gives even a tiny bit of credence to the theory of Mandela Effect. I saw the movie many years ago so my memory of the movie cannot be completely accurate by any means.

The subject of past and memories is quite interesting. I, like all of us can remember things from past so very clearly and yet we have forgotten some of the things we did yesterday. To my knowledge there's no other proper alternative to mandela effect than false memory syndrome, but then again I'm not sure. Maybe others would know better. It would be exciting and interesting if in reality we actually somehow switched timelines (God knows for what reason), but that's the less beliavable option. These days I take everything with a spoon of salt instead of a pinch. I'm open-minded though, I'm just constantly asking questions and challenging things, including the illusionary reality I perceive with all of my human senses.




My whole family recalls the Berenstein Bears. Absolutely without a doubt.

It was not Bear stain. 100%

I have quite a few kids so we watched the show for about 10 years.

[Wind]

Here's one video psychology video I'm watching, sharing in case if it's of interest.

S_36C6i8PbY
And a couple shorter ones.

y9a5enhbHvs
aM_PZZxNsrw

Now this guy actually has a photographic memory. Then again, he's a savant.

ejhNxNIKvOI

[Patient]

The problem with this discussion is that for some people, things have changed and they know it. For others, things have not changed. With 2 distinct viewpoints one side will never be able to convince the other side.

[neutronstar]

His ray ban sunglasses. That is strange. I sometimes wonder if they have experimented with time travel, or viewing the past or present, or some other type of time manipulation, that there might have been small changes that occurred. Or it could be Hollywood messing with peoples minds.

[Innocent Warrior]

Hi Wind :waving:

Hi Rachel. I had a feeling I would be seeing you here. :)


What does psychology offer as an explanation for when reality conflicts with highly vivid memories? What alternative theory would you suggest, other than poor memory, that's not "woo woo" (if you have any)?

How vivid are the memories? Are you absolutely certain of remembering some things? For example, I remember the Moonraker "braces scene" too, but then again... I think that I remember the girl in the movie having braces. I am not absolutely sure that she had braces and I believe that even I am able to misremember such thing with so many other people even though I could swear that the girl absolutely had braces in the movie. Yet now she doesn't! However, that's just the only example for me personally which gives even a tiny bit of credence to the theory of Mandela Effect. I saw the movie many years ago so my memory of the movie cannot be completely accurate by any means.

The subject of past and memories is quite interesting. I, like all of us can remember things from past so very clearly and yet we have forgotten some of the things we did yesterday. To my knowledge there's no other proper alternative to mandela effect than false memory syndrome, but then again I'm not sure. Maybe others would know better. It would be exciting and interesting if in reality we actually somehow switched timelines (God knows for what reason), but that's the less beliavable option. These days I take everything with a spoon of salt instead of a pinch. I'm open-minded though, I'm just constantly asking questions and challenging things, including the illusionary reality I perceive with all of my human senses.

I found this article:
https://aeon.co/ideas/on-shared-false-memories-what-lies-behind-the-mandela-effect

"Although it might be tempting to believe that the Mandela effect is evidence that parallel realities exist or that our universe is a glitchy simulation, a true scientist must test his or her alternative hypothesis by trying to disprove it. In light of known cognitive phenomena that can give rise to shared false memories, it’s highly unlikely that some of us are actually from an alternative universe crossing timelines with the present one. Nonetheless, the Mandela effect is still a fascinating case study in the quirks of human memory. For those who love thinking about how the mind works, it is perhaps even an example of the truth being stranger than fiction."

OK, well let me begin by saying I have plenty enough excitement in my life when it comes the strange and unusual, so we can safely put the need or temptation to believe because it's fascinating aside here. I also don't need to believe in the ME to know parallel realities exist, so there's no reward as such, I'm earnestly interested in understanding what's going on with it.

Regarding false memories, in my experience I don't see how it applies, unless I'm misunderstanding a part of the concept somewhere (let me know if I am). Let me explain. I can recall at least twice I've noticed changes before I saw it presented as a ME (I've actually only looked at ME videos a few times) so I didn't get the idea from anyone else, not only that, when I noticed them my response wasn't something like, "oh wow, ME", quite the opposite. Each time I noticed I thought to myself, "that's odd, I could have sworn it was such n such". I've observed my natural inclination is to initially discard my recollection and then I'm pretty blown away when I see it later on the internet. I've rarely looked at ME videos, too long in between to have seen them. What are the chances that out of all the little details that could possibly change, at least twice I've seen them first and then later seen loads of others online have seen the exact same detail change and remember it exactly the way I did. So yes, I'm certain.

Although it doesn't explain what I've observed thanks for your reply, appreciate it.

[ghostrider]

It became real for me in my lord of the rings six dvd collection ... the first one , the Hobbit an Unexpected Journey, has a line that was one way when I bought it, heard about the Mandela effect and now the line is changed ... Really freaked me out because I bought the collection two months ago, and watched it every night... The line is now , I do have some skill at Konckers if you must know... it should be, I do play a mean game of Knockers if you must know ... I drove my wife crazy watching the series every night, I know the lines, they have changed ... also gandoff hanging on the cliff should say run you fools , now he says fly you fools ... you can go on and on with examples of reality being different than what people remember ...

[Noelle]

The testimonials from Bible readers about verses changing truly bolsters the argument for the Mandela Effect. In this video, a devoted Bible reader tells about the change in Luke 12:51: "Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyYVBQPg1Nw

[ZShawn]

the verse in luke is mirrored in matthew 10:34 which says do not think i came to bring peace, but a sword.
which is as it has been for as long as I have read it... +3 decades

the one that baffles me is the lion shall lay down with the lamb from Isaiah
http://www.crosswalk.com/print/11605681/

which in all the imagery created for many decades even longer if one looks at old paintings, depict a lion and a lamb quite prominently yet the verse says wolf will dwell with the lamb....
so this is a very odd item as popular imagery relates a different idea than the verse depicts...
are things changing or are people collectively losing it?
the jury is still out on the long term issues related to electrosmog and other environmental toxins humanity is being exposed to....long term exposure to aluminum which is very high in soil and water samples for one....
who knows
i do not recall it ever saying wolf though, yet now it does

[EFO]

When I first saw the movie on HBO in 1998 I was impressed,even now I have the same feeling.It shows a lot of "things".

Dark City - Remix Trailer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADkB5oEe3Qc

Off topic:I will add it on "My favorite movie" thread.

[MythKitty]

I have an amazing memory for things of interest to me, things that were emotionally charged (unfortunate for my husband!), and things I've had to memorize and repeat time and again. When I first saw things online that were "wrong", I hadn't heard of the Mandela Effect, I just believed the individual who referenced the item in question wasn't really that familiar with it or didn't know how to spell.

Then I learned of the Mandela Effect and went through lists of changes people had noticed. Some of the changes mentioned contained things that I, too, thought were different than how they currently are, but I didn't have a deep connection to them so I chalked it up to faulty memory. However, there is one thing I am 100% certain of and that is the Lord's Prayer. Having been raised in church, as well as attending a Christian school for four years, I had recited the Lord's Prayer in unison with my peers too many times to count throughout childhood and my teenage years.

I still can't believe how the prayer now reads. I have no words...

Another thing I am 90% sure of, and my husband who collects coins is 100% sure of, is the man depicted on the US dime. There are other MEs I can relate to, but those two things stand out.

[Creedence]

I just realised the initials for Mandela Effect are ME.

There is no such thing as coincidence.

[Innocent Warrior]

When I first saw the movie on HBO in 1998 I was impressed,even now I have the same feeling.It shows a lot of "things".

Dark City - Remix Trailer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADkB5oEe3Qc

Off topic:I will add it on "My favorite movie" thread.

I haven't seen it, looks interesting, thank you.

If you're interested in a movie about parallel realities, I found Singularity Principle interesting. Its strength is that it was co-written and co-directed by physicist Dr David Deranian who was careful to make sure it was scientifically accurate.

HohVB4jH1Aw

[EFO]

When I first saw the movie on HBO in 1998 I was impressed,even now I have the same feeling.It shows a lot of "things".

Dark City - Remix Trailer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADkB5oEe3Qc

Off topic:I will add it on "My favorite movie" thread.

I haven't seen it, looks interesting, thank you.

If you're interested in a movie about parallel realities, I found the Singularity Principle interesting. Its strength is that it was co-written and co-directed by physicist Dr David Deranian who was careful to make sure it was scientifically accurate.

HohVB4jH1Aw

Thanks for it and I will watch it tonight.

Well,regarding the trailer,somehow confirm my suspicion that we truly have not one but multiple parallel universes.Every second is a parallel universe.Perhaps in these parallel universes right when you read this post a mammoth cross your room and/or find yourself in a lab of advanced humankind in lets say 50000 years from now in 52017 simultaneously.Silly describing these universes.

[neutronstar]

also gandoff hanging on the cliff should say run you fools , now he says fly you fools ...

He did say run you fools. I didn't know it has changed.

[InCiDeR]

I have been investigating this phenomenon or anomaly for quite some time. The main reason is that I have encountered discrepancies myself, that my perceived reality do not match my memory. More of that later.

There is a rather comprehensive list of 3 000 discovered anomalies to date. Not all of them I consider valid, however many of them are very hard to explain. I will come back to them as well.

Anyhow, here are some interesting papers (with math) that might or might not tie into the so called Mandela Effect:

---

Excerpt://

In the mid-20th century, the ‘Many Worlds’ theory first speculated that multiple versions of reality branch out from one another as distinct entities existing in discrete locations, without any interaction.

This new theory suggests that all of these infinite multiple worlds overlap and occupy the same region of time and space simultaneously, just like a quantum state.

“All possibilities are therefore realized – in some universes the dinosaur-killing asteroid missed Earth. In others, Australia was colonized by the Portuguese,” Wiseman said in a press release.

“But critics question the reality of these other universes, since they do not influence our universe at all. On this score, our “Many Interacting Worlds” approach is completely different, as its name implies.”

---

Under this new interpretation, some worlds in parallel universes would be nearly identical. In others, the “Butterfly Effect” is responsible for completely different outcomes.

Each universe is equally real; it isn’t that one universe is the truth while others are bizarre copies or lesser in any way. Wiseman also believes that the quantum forces responsible for driving this shared existence are also responsible for causing quantum interactions between the worlds.

Similarity between worlds interact through quantum forces, which influences the outcome of the world by making them slightly dissimilar.

Though the theory states that the worlds interact with one another on the quantum level and not on a larger scale, Wiseman also believes the theory does not preclude that possibility, either.

//:Excerpt

---

Here is a short article (http://www.iflscience.com/physics/physicist-predicts-parallel-universes-overlap-and-interact)

Here is the whole review - with maths! (https://journals.aps.org/prx/pdf/10.1103/PhysRevX.4.041013)

---

Also:

Charles Sebens, a philosopher of physics at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor, says he is excited about the new approach to the theory of interaction between worlds.

He has independently developed similar ideas, to which he has given the paradoxical name of Newtonian quantum mechanics.

Essentially, he and Wiseman’s group take different approaches to the same general idea.

“They give very nice analyses of particular phenomena like ground-state energy and quantum tunnelling — I discuss probability and symmetry in more depth,” Sebens says.

“I think that together they do a nice job presenting this exciting new idea.” Sebens has written an article describing his approach which will be published in the journal Philosophy of Science.

---

Quantum Mechanics as Classical Physics (https://arxiv.org/pdf/1403.0014v4.pdf)

Philosophy of Science, 82 (April 2015) pp. 266–291


Quote:

Here I explore a novel no-collapse interpretation of quantum mechanics which combines aspects of two familiar and well-developed alternatives, Bohmian mechanics and the many-worlds interpretation.

Despite reproducing the empirical predictions of quantum mechanics, the theory looks surprisingly classical.

All there is at the fundamental level are particles interacting via Newtonian forces. There is no wave function. However, there are many worlds.

---

Further:

Max Tegmark, Parallel Universes (https://arxiv.org/pdf/astro-ph/0302131.pdf)


Quote:

"I survey physics theories involving parallel universes, which form a natural four-level hierarchy of multiverses allowing progressively greater diversity.

Level I:

A generic prediction of
inflation is an infinite ergodic universe, which contains Hubble volumes realizing all initial conditions
— including an identical copy of you about 10^10^29 m away.


Level II:

In chaotic inflation, other
thermalized regions may have different physical constants, dimensionality and particle content.


Level III:

In unitary quantum mechanics, other branches of the wavefunction add nothing qualitatively
new, which is ironic given that this level has historically been the most controversial.


Level IV:

Other mathematical structures give different fundamental equations of physics. The key question is not whether parallel universes exist (Level I is the uncontroversial cosmological concordance model),
but how many levels there are. I discuss how multiverse models can be falsified and argue that the there is a severe “measure problem” that must be solved to make testable predictions at levels II-IV"

---

There are similar theories (with math) popping up from several physicists all around the world.


So, maybe the idea of universes interacting is no longer so far-fetched after all! ;-)

[InCiDeR]

When it comes to false memories and the likes, the go to expert is usually considered to be Elizabeth Loftus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Loftus)

Even though I hold Elizabeth Loftus research in high regard, I consider this phenomenon to be slightly different than what her studies have explained and showed us.

Myself have a background as a psychologist/scientist with an orientation in cognition, memory and trauma.

The oddity when it comes to the Mandela Effect is that so many independent of each other remember or recall the exact same "faulty" details.

---

So, are our brain wired in the same way, therefore they are likely to remember the same things?

Well, both yes and no.

That might be the case when it comes to pareidolia, visual illusions, change blindness and other visuo-spatial perceptions and even some other sensory inputs where we "trick" the brain.

However, when it comes to more complex memory patterns (like some of the examples of this phenomenon), that is not the case.

Our encoding/storing and decoding/retrieval mechanisms and processes are the same. Probably even the storage area in the brain, even though that issue is much debated in general between scientist.

Some believe there are certain areas in the brain, like hippocampus, which are responsible for memory storage.

Others believe the brain work in a holographic way, meaning the memory is scattered all over the brain.

There are actually evidence for both positions, which in itself tell us we are just in the beginning of the process understanding the brain.

So, when it comes to the *brains processes* my first statement seems to be true. However, *what* is stored and retrieved is a whole different scenario.

Here our perception, contextual factors, environment, emotions, focus, culture familiarity, social influences etc etc comes into play. Both in the encoding as well as in the decoding process.

The later process is also very cue dependent and affected by our emotional state while processing and retrieving.

Therefore, *what* is stored and later remembered by different individuals is not likely to be the same. If not the contextual settings and other "clues" that are present also are the same.

Even Elizabeth Loftus studies shows us that no more than 20% of her test subjects actually created false memories, despite the fact the studies were made in controlled settings using forceful priming and suggestions.

Further, her studies also shows us that the retrieval of the false memory is cue dependent, meaning the test subject didn't spontaneously tell her about the false memory until they were asked (cue).

When it comes to this phenomenon we therefore have to show that the same variables were present when different, independent individuals stored and recalled a specific shared memory. The likelihood for that is slim, at best, non-existent, at worst.

I am not saying this is not a psychological phenomenon. I am saying it is a stretch to explain the phenomenon with current existing theories which are established in the field of psychological science.

If it is a pure psychological explanation, we probably have to combine some of the theories and even include some new hypothesis to give a likely explanation for this phenomenon as it is.

However, this has to be tested and researched first!

---

As I see it, nothing is proven yet. Similarity and correlation with existing theories do not equals causality. It might explain many of the cases, but not all of them.

So far there are no scientific studies made regarding this phenomenon, therefore no evidence of causality with existing theories are concluded.

However, it is in fact very tempting to draw conclusions based on early assumptions about this phenomenon, be it psychological theories or quantum theories or otherwise. But I try really hard to avoid biases or see something that isn't there!

Why is it tempting?

Well, the probability that hundreds of people independent of each other from different cultural, educational and environmental background and also using different mother language, remember the exact same thing, is extremely low... however not impossible... but nevertheless very very unlikely.

I believe most that have done research and science would agree with that statement.

In the history of psychological science that has never happened as far as I know. Not in this way. There are other similar things that have been taken place, however the circumstances and the variables were different.

They could more easily be referred to as "collective obsessional behavior" (mass delusions), "mass hypnosis", "confirmation bias", "cognitive dissonance" etc etc.

This case however do not really fulfill the criteria, why I find it extremely interesting.

But as a scientist I follow the evidence wherever they take me, however inappropriate and seemingly impossible. I work with data, probabilities, predictions, repeatability, and tests.

Many times I end up utterly surprised, because I reached a result that I didn't expect or wished for. I do not change the evidence or result to fit my hypothesis, neither do I force my mind to see something else due to cognitive dissonans.

I do not believe in facts, because there aren't any, only hypothesis and scientific theories, which only live long enough until proven otherwise.

I prefer to talk in tendencies... a ball have a tendency to fall back to earth if I throw it up in open airspace. No laws or fact... a very strong tendency with a probability close to 1.

So in this case I do not know what is causing it... yet! But I see clear tendencies that something has happened. I haven't ruled out any explanation... not even aliens hahaha ;-)

[ghostrider]

Check out Brian Mcfarlands youtube channel, he has a small group of researchers that find residual Effects from the original way people remember and he post the old way and the new way ... They do an open live stream on Fridays to discuss the Mandela effect and new effects are posted there daily ...

[Anchor]

My only example would be addidas/adidas. I swear it was addidas. But I cannot vote because I'd say: a little bit true :)


edit @uzn: yes, that information is on the net NOW.

It was always adidas, because if it were not, the "All Day I Dream About Sex" thing that I learned at school would not have worked ever.

That said, I voted "I'm convinced" because my wife and I tracked down some examples that show we experience it (but in different ways)

[Innocent Warrior]

His ray ban sunglasses. That is strange. I sometimes wonder if they have experimented with time travel, or viewing the past or present, or some other type of time manipulation, that there might have been small changes that occurred. Or it could be Hollywood messing with peoples minds.

Yeah, looks wierd without the sunglasses, I also remember his shirt was bigger and white, but not as vividly as the sunglasses, they were most iconic.

Hmm, time travel is an interesting and entertaining idea. :idea:

@Anchor That's how I remember adidas too.

[Noelle]

His ray ban sunglasses. That is strange. I sometimes wonder if they have experimented with time travel, or viewing the past or present, or some other type of time manipulation, that there might have been small changes that occurred. Or it could be Hollywood messing with peoples minds.

Yeah, looks wierd without the sunglasses, I also remember his shirt was bigger and white, but not as vividly as the sunglasses, they were most iconic.

Hmm, time travel is an interesting and entertaining idea. :idea:

@Anchor That's how I remember adidas too.

Thinking about explanations for the Mandela Effect this morning, and I wondered if we (our individual and collective consciousness), in the present, can change the past.

[wnlight]

I am not convinced, but I do remember "Dolly''s braces". I have not seen that movie recently nor a clip so, has it changed?

Also, C3PO' exterior originally was all gold - no silver leg. But I just looked on Google and found C3PO both ways - some where he is all gold and some with a silver lower right leg. So there! They filmed him both ways and created two sets of memories.

So it's no Woo Woo here. Movies are too easily changed.

[East Sun]

I have an amazing memory for things of interest to me, things that were emotionally charged (unfortunate for my husband!), and things I've had to memorize and repeat time and again. When I first saw things online that were "wrong", I hadn't heard of the Mandela Effect, I just believed the individual who referenced the item in question wasn't really that familiar with it or didn't know how to spell.

Then I learned of the Mandela Effect and went through lists of changes people had noticed. Some of the changes mentioned contained things that I, too, thought were different than how they currently are, but I didn't have a deep connection to them so I chalked it up to faulty memory. However, there is one thing I am 100% certain of and that is the Lord's Prayer. Having been raised in church, as well as attending a Christian school for four years, I had recited the Lord's Prayer in unison with my peers too many times to count throughout childhood and my teenage years.

I still can't believe how the prayer now reads. I have no words...

Another thing I am 90% sure of, and my husband who collects coins is 100% sure of, is the man depicted on the US dime. There are other MEs I can relate to, but those two things stand out.

You may not know this but there is a difference between the Catholic ending of the Lords prayer and
other versions. For example, in other versions it reads, "For thine is the....." etc.

It's many decades since last I read that so, it may have been changed again.

[East Sun]

The testimonials from Bible readers about verses changing truly bolsters the argument for the Mandela Effect. In this video, a devoted Bible reader tells about the change in Luke 12:51: "Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyYVBQPg1Nw

I'm curious LadyM, Do you have the same Bible from years back or a different one?

[Noelle]

The testimonials from Bible readers about verses changing truly bolsters the argument for the Mandela Effect. In this video, a devoted Bible reader tells about the change in Luke 12:51: "Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyYVBQPg1Nw

I'm curious LadyM, Do you have the same Bible from years back or a different one?

I don't read the Bible, though I am familiar with some verses. I was baptized as a Lutheran but have been religion-free most of my life. I own one; it was my grandmother's and it was given to me when she passed.

[Patient]

I am not convinced, but I do remember "Dolly''s braces". I have not seen that movie recently nor a clip so, has it changed?

Also, C3PO' exterior originally was all gold - no silver leg. But I just looked on Google and found C3PO both ways - some where he is all gold and some with a silver lower right leg. So there! They filmed him both ways and created two sets of memories.

So it's no Woo Woo here. Movies are too easily changed.

Yes, movies can be edited and re-released. Companies sometimes will alter their logos.

When I first heard about the Mandela Effect, all of the examples I saw were things on the internet. I could not have definitive proof by reading other people's claims so I searched my own life for my own proof. (In my previous post in this thread I explained the Berenstein Bears change.) I have a friend who collects toys and is a Star Wars fan. He brought out his old VHS tape and found that it was different than he remembered. He found the proof of the change with something he owns so he was able to see for himself. I encourage people to do the same. Look in your own life for changes. However, there will be a segment of the population that does not see anything changed.

As only a certain portion of the population recall things different than the other, there will never be total consensus on something that has changed. Something I find strange is that in my memory, there was never an image of C3PO with a silver leg and we now find that there is both; a fully gold C3PO and one silver leg C3PO. Whatever happened to alter things in our reality only affected a portion of the population and also was not complete in changing the entirety of some things. Perhaps the strength of the effect was only strong enough to 'push' (for lack of a better word) so far. Another thing that I have noticed is that the changes that have occurred are almost 'cosmetic' in that they have altered the appearance of things, but nothing that I have found has made a difference on a scale that alters our world financially or politically. It is as if the changes were done to things in a "safe" manner. If someone wanted to affect changes to see how the population would react to those changes, then they were very successful in choosing the right changes to affect a large portion of the population without affecting it in a destructive way.

If the timeline changes were random, then we could see many people having their families altered. Borders and the names of countries could be very different. Enormous changes in the development of rural and city areas. As far as I have seen, this did not happen. The changes that did occur cross a variety of content but are safe changes.

[Mercedes]

If anyone else has answers to my questions to Wind I'm open to them, I've experienced the Mandela Effect but if there are convincing alternative explanations I'm interested in reading them.

* * *

Here's a Mandela Effect test. This is an iconic movie scene so there might be others here who see a change or not. Don't say anything yet if you've seen this amongst the Mandela Effect material, does anyone see anything odd in the dance scene? This video was uploaded before the emergence of the Mandela Effect material, 2008.

G2UVsyVLLcE

Where are the sunglasses?

[mojo]

here's more about the dance scene...
im4P16m-4_o

Pfp_bwiOra0

[Rawhide68]

Doh, I´ll try again, learning how this forum works

[Rawhide68]

Hi Wind!

About Dolly´s braces, as I can see you´re from my lovely neighbouring country Finland :-)
Here is a Finnish commercial for "Sampo" staring the actual actor from the film Moonraker, Richard Kiel, playing on the joke that Dolly had braces.
Enjoy !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BhLAWP7jGA


I´m absolutely a billion 1000% sure that Dolly had braces!!!

As I said it´s a very vivid memory to me because my friend Micke who I watched the VHS film with had braces put in weeks before looking the same as Dolly´s , and we laughed about it together.
Micke died in a car accident some years later and that´s why I like to think of us laughing together, wich happened watching that film, comparing his braces to Dolly´s.

Peace and Love

[Rawhide68]

Did my reply disapear, errr, no I think Wind can see it now at least,mmm

[East Sun]

The testimonials from Bible readers about verses changing truly bolsters the argument for the Mandela Effect. In this video, a devoted Bible reader tells about the change in Luke 12:51: "Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyYVBQPg1Nw

I'm curious LadyM, Do you have the same Bible from years back or a different one?

I don't read the Bible, though I am familiar with some verses. I was baptized as a Lutheran but have been religion-free most of my life. I own one; it was my grandmother's and it was given to me when she passed.

The reason I asked was to see if you read from an old version of the Bible or a modern one although there might not be any difference. Thanks!

[Noelle]

The testimonials from Bible readers about verses changing truly bolsters the argument for the Mandela Effect. In this video, a devoted Bible reader tells about the change in Luke 12:51: "Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyYVBQPg1Nw

I'm curious LadyM, Do you have the same Bible from years back or a different one?

I don't read the Bible, though I am familiar with some verses. I was baptized as a Lutheran but have been religion-free most of my life. I own one; it was my grandmother's and it was given to me when she passed.

The reason I asked was to see if you read from an old version of the Bible or a modern one although there might not be any difference. Thanks!

No worries. I looked it up in my grandmother's Bible, published in 1986, and it does have "division." With all the people that read and meditate on the verses in the Bible, this is bothersome (to say the least).

[East Sun]

LadyM,
Some people would say that it does not matter, the message is the same.
Once at Barnes and Noble where there was a shelf of Bibles I checked different Bibles and noticed a big difference in their wording of well known passages.

For example one said, "through a glass darkly...." while another said "through a mirror dimly" but it does
not really matter. As I said the message is clear enough. There are countless examples like this depending on which Bible you pick.

Similarly, lines from movies also, as I indicated in my second post in this thread. Just saying, as a common phrase goes. Thanks!:sun:

[neutronstar]

His ray ban sunglasses. That is strange. I sometimes wonder if they have experimented with time travel, or viewing the past or present, or some other type of time manipulation, that there might have been small changes that occurred. Or it could be Hollywood messing with peoples minds.

Yeah, looks wierd without the sunglasses, I also remember his shirt was bigger and white, but not as vividly as the sunglasses, they were most iconic.

Hmm, time travel is an interesting and entertaining idea. :idea:

@Anchor That's how I remember adidas too.

Thinking about explanations for the Mandela Effect this morning, and I wondered if we (our individual and collective consciousness), in the present, can change the past.

I could think of a lot and I am not sure if you could ever prove any of them. I think of the universe as a dvd. Past, present, and future are happening all at the same time, but unlike a movie where there is only one out come, this reality is dynamic. There are multiple possibilities that depend on our choices we make.

Sometimes I wonder if we could spontaneously switch to other time lines that are only slightly different. I think though, time experiments by a black project would seem more likely to me.

Or in the case of movies, it could be simply a re edited version. I do know of some movies where they film multiple endings and sometimes switch them in a re release.

[Rawhide68]

I Have been thinking about this a lot.
Mandela effect as the Mandala effect wich makes more sense to the whole subject if you look up the word "mandala"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandala
By the way Nelson Mandelas grandson is named Mandla Mandela, just a funny detail fact.

[Noelle]

His ray ban sunglasses. That is strange. I sometimes wonder if they have experimented with time travel, or viewing the past or present, or some other type of time manipulation, that there might have been small changes that occurred. Or it could be Hollywood messing with peoples minds.

Yeah, looks wierd without the sunglasses, I also remember his shirt was bigger and white, but not as vividly as the sunglasses, they were most iconic.

Hmm, time travel is an interesting and entertaining idea. :idea:

@Anchor That's how I remember adidas too.

Thinking about explanations for the Mandela Effect this morning, and I wondered if we (our individual and collective consciousness), in the present, can change the past.

I could think of a lot and I am not sure if you could ever prove any of them. I think of the universe as a dvd. Past, present, and future are happening all at the same time, but unlike a movie where there is only one out come, this reality is dynamic. There are multiple possibilities that depend on our choices we make.

Sometimes I wonder if we could spontaneously switch to other time lines that are only slightly different. I think though, time experiments by a black project would seem more likely to me.

Or in the case of movies, it could be simply a re edited version. I do know of some movies where they film multiple endings and sometimes switch them in a re release.

Yes, many point to DWAVE (quantum computing), CERN, and other projects and technologies as a possible cause. But our reality is one of illusions and inversions. It really could be something so far out there that most people -- even in this forum -- may not have considered it.

[MythKitty]

Check out Brian Mcfarlands youtube channel

I just did a search for his channel and I can't find it. I didn't realize there are so many Brian Mcfarlands in the world. Could you please provide a link?

Did you mean Brian MacFarlane (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FikvyV4sgQ8)?

[Did You See Them]

I certainly remember Dolly's braces - that was the "joke" ! Two very different people in looks and size that meet and have one thing in common - braces !
That scene now does not make sense.
No idea what the up shot of this so called Mandela effect is but there are a few examples I noticed years ago that have led me not to dismiss this as just miss remembering things.

[ZShawn]

given that the majority of these bits of weirdness are in movies it fits into the it really doesn't matter category and totally could be a mind f**k
things are now digital and can be edited easily and the entirely of popular media is controlled by a few conglomerates :sherlock:
fraud exists on a massive level on this planet, our whole culture is built on it and from it, which makes something like this kind of .... inevitable
but then there are a few items which really boggle the logic....timeline shifting then becomes a plausibility

[TinFoilSuit]

As minor and inconsequential as most of these seem, I do think it matters - quite a bit. At what point do important historical records become altered? 50 years from now, will it be commonly known that George W Bush was a Rhodes Scholar genius with a 200 IQ?

The thing that stands out to me is that there are just so many things that are changing - not just one or two. And that so many folks remember it a certain way.

As much as some of us can try to rationalize, I cannot agree that:

- Desi Arnaz never ever said "Lucy you got some splaining to do"
- Hannibal said "Morning" instead of "Hello Clarice"
- ET said "ET home phone" and not "ET Phone Home"
- Lone Ranger said "Hi-yo Silver" and not "Hi ho Silver"
- White Out is now Wite Out
- Sketchers is now Skechers
- Wynona Ryder is now Winona Ryder
- Jamie Gertz is now Jami Gertz
- Depends is now Depend
- Herbal Essence is now Herbal Essences
- Ed McMahon never handed out giant checks for Publishers Clearing House
- Captain Kirk never said "Beam me up Scotty"
- That Dolly had a completely white smile :bigsmile:

Sorry, not buying it. But also, I guess I can't entirely be convinced that this is the result of the efforts of some sinister group of folks. Maybe it's just more evidence that the Universe is not what most of us think it is.

How exciting!

TFS

[justntime2learn]

The testimonials from Bible readers about verses changing truly bolsters the argument for the Mandela Effect. In this video, a devoted Bible reader tells about the change in Luke 12:51: "Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyYVBQPg1Nw

I'm curious LadyM, Do you have the same Bible from years back or a different one?

I don't read the Bible, though I am familiar with some verses. I was baptized as a Lutheran but have been religion-free most of my life. I own one; it was my grandmother's and it was given to me when she passed.

The reason I asked was to see if you read from an old version of the Bible or a modern one although there might not be any difference. Thanks!

No worries. I looked it up in my grandmother's Bible, published in 1986, and it does have "division." With all the people that read and meditate on the verses in the Bible, this is bothersome (to say the least).

I always thought one of the ten commandments was "Thou shalt not kill" , but everything I find now is "Thou shalt not murder".

I was a Catholic from birth until 2010 and still got it wrong. Which one do you remember?

[Noelle]

The testimonials from Bible readers about verses changing truly bolsters the argument for the Mandela Effect. In this video, a devoted Bible reader tells about the change in Luke 12:51: "Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyYVBQPg1Nw

I'm curious LadyM, Do you have the same Bible from years back or a different one?

I don't read the Bible, though I am familiar with some verses. I was baptized as a Lutheran but have been religion-free most of my life. I own one; it was my grandmother's and it was given to me when she passed.

The reason I asked was to see if you read from an old version of the Bible or a modern one although there might not be any difference. Thanks!

No worries. I looked it up in my grandmother's Bible, published in 1986, and it does have "division." With all the people that read and meditate on the verses in the Bible, this is bothersome (to say the least).

I always thought one of the ten commandments was "Thou shalt not kill" , but everything I find now is "Thou shalt not murder".

I was a Catholic from birth until 2010 and still got it wrong. Which one do you remember?

I remember "kill." I went to BibleGateway and, by golly, you're right.

[Rawhide68]

Most of it is probably explained by simple stuff like companys change their logos as brand names. simply Occam's razor works here.

Moonraker is a different cup of tea.
Me sitting beside my friend Micke back then watching Moonraker on VHS, Looking at Dolly´s bracers smiling back to Jaw.
We laughed are ass(es) off, because Micke had just recently put in similar braces as Dolly had. It´s a very strong memory for me!

So it´s probably like UFO sightings. If you havnt had one (close and intensive) you tend to disbelieve it as a defense for your own beliefsystem and survival.

Then their still lures this momory that everyone has of Disneys Snowwhite "Mirror mirror on the wall" changed to "Magic mirror on the wall"
How did that happen?

I watched that film over and over again due to the fact that I had ambitions of becoming an animator back in the days.
She always said mirror mirror... Not "Magic"!

Others who have strong religious belief´s are sure that some of the words in the bible is not as it used to be. I listened to a priest on a podcast and he was almost crying when he told for example lion and lamb,now is wolf and lamb , whinebags had turned to bottles.

Here is a clip for Avalon member "Wind" from Finland from the late Dr Rauni Kilde from Finland.
She had a close encouter with a UFO that changed her life.

pLJvs5s5laA

[seehas]

Hi everyone,

ive started the first poll on the ME (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?95399-The-Mandela-Effect-Poll) some time ago on PA , and im still today a little confused why this topic isnt a bigger one in this forum since its to the core what this forum is all about.

@Rawhide68
Its absolutely like u said, either u are affected by the ME or its not important to you its also great to learn about your own ignorance, if i wasnt affected i would probably dismiss this thread like a "flatearthers thread" this teaches me to stay open even to topics that sound way to outlandish.

for me there have been many things that seemed weird to me, it started last year with car logos "volkswagen, volvo, ford" when i was driving a brand new volkswagen car from my company i was looking at the logo and i said to myself "wow they changed it" but it realy got me when i saw the james bond - moonraker in tv last year ... i just couldnt belive it "my wife was asking what happened she wast in the room at the moment dolly smiled without braces, i just said THEY REMOVED HERE BRACES..WTF , later investigation showed they didnt removed it she never had them.

this is a impossible to miss remember fact, ive seen the movie as a kid plenty of times and i joked with family members about the braces ... just impossible to miss remember.

another big one for myself is the zapruder-JFK-shooting, when the zapruderfilm made it to the internet in the 90s ive watched it hundred of times and watched every person on that movie, i wanted to see the shooter... and my movie NEVER had 6 people in the car, now its just another movie.

my personal opinion about the ME is, its not CERN - they want you to belive its CERN because it takes away the power from the people and fear is beeing injected (old and good working tactic), the ME didnt happened the first time i belive it happened allways but without the Internet it wasnt a topic for the masses.

the ME is a highly spiritual topic and its all about who we are and why we are here - i wish to read more about it on PA but i respect its not for interest for everyone "yet".

the future is full of surprises ;)

is the ME what dolores cannon was talking about back in the days?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UmkhFlMHZ0

[mojo]

...leaning very much on the new Immersion Theory to help explain Mandela and Sacred Geometry and living in a computer simulation. I think the free Masons knew it way back and kept it secret and perhaps the Egyptians of the Pyramid times and even before them at Babylon where they were building a portal in the sky. The ones that built the ancient megalithic sites also knew it, ie The Gate of the Gods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97FhauH1J58