Jehovah; is he really who he says he is?

[6Denno]

Jehovah. He is described, or rather describes himself as an authoritarian parent that must be obeyed without a doubt 100% of the time no matter what. No matter what? Or else what right? I mean you don't expect people to just bow down to you for no reason, I mean you don't even have a body, you are just a voice in my head. Well turns out Jehovah is well aware of the power of fear, and how to design it in such a way that the fear propagates across generations. How else but with stories of his wrath to his enemies and his expectations and rewards of his followers. So who was his biggest fan? Abraham of course, who else, and how did he get to be Jehovah's favorite? Well he was willing to perform human sacrifice to show him how much he was into him, not to mention it was his own son, not to mention that this voice in his head actually asked him to, not to mention that this psychopath made his son carry his own death tools up a ****ing mountain. Of course many believers overlook these simple truths, and still remain fixated on the ridiculous notion that Jehovah is God and that he loves them. I see a lot of similarities between Jehovah and his style of rule and that of dictators. They both instill fear in their subjects so as to more easily control them, they both lie compulsively while still acting in contrary to what he says he does or will do. In an awakened earth, religions based on faith would not be able to have as much influence as they do now. Its almost unimaginable, the fact that billions of Christians and Muslims go through life in fear of these discarnate entities, then again it makes sense why the world is such a horrible place to a lot of people. Imagine how different things would be if all that fear could be turned into love. The thing about a story is that it doesn't need to be rational so as to make its point or to create the desired feeling, you know, cartoons are still funny even if the laws of mathematics don't apply to them, we can however always apply logic to a story so as to derive the real truth and not the truth of the storyteller. This is why I say that faith based religions couldn't stand a chance in an enlightened world, because an enlightened world is made up of thinkers, mathematical, logical thinkers, of course this is not to say that we will all be autistic, rather that we will apply logic to everything, including information from the right brain, in the form of dreams, desires, intuitions and more. Think of how differently the story would have gone had Abraham applied logic to the voices in his head asking him to sacrifice his own son, he would probably have diagnosed himself with paranoid schizophrenia with just a hint of psychopathy. This is not meant to be a offensive to anyone based on your belief system, just that the point of the article was to highlight that belief and faith systems can have catastrophic results. It is my view that those most in need of such knowledge are also the least likely to seek it, because the process of rethinking ones perspective of life is both painful and hard but the rewards are so great that it doesn't seem like it was so hard once on the other side, it all begins with a decision, just decide that maybe you could have been lied to as a child, not because your parents don't want you know the truth but because they know that as the truth and often go to great lengths to make sure you see it as truth too. I obviously don't expect any believer to agree with me, as it should be, all I ask is that you be conscious the next time you think about God and worshiping him. Thank You:flower:

[Bill Ryan]

An early scholar called Marcon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcionism) concluded that if one honestly studied the entire Bible — the Old and New Testaments together — one could see clearly that there were TWO DIFFERENT 'GODS' described: one a loving God, the one that Jesus knew and discussed — and the other, The Old Testament Jehovah, a cruel, badass 'God' who was very likely not the real one at all.

This heresy got him excommunicated from the early Roman Church. But he had a most excellent point.

The early Gnostics, of course, said pretty much exactly the same thing, pointing to the extremely unpleasant 'God' of much of the Old Testament as being the 'Demiurge'... an evil, Archontic impostor.

[Praxis]

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled wasn't convincing the world that he didn't exist but rather it was convincing people that HE was GOD.

The Cathars went further and saw the entire material plane as sinful and ruled by this imposter so the goal was to cleanse oneself of the body. Not in a suicide way of course but to live righteously and then go to the plane of GOD. They also viewed Jesus, at least some of them, as an emanation from heaven and not a flesh and blood being as he was too pure for that. Or at least this is what I understand of it. Man I of love Graham Hancocks and Robert Bauvals book on that subject!

[Foxie Loxie]

Welcome to Avalon, 6Denno! Love your reasoning! :highfive: Check out the videos here by Robert Stanley to zero in more on this "god"! Another good source are the videos by George Kavassilas! The works of Joseph Atwill add much to this discussion, if you are interested! The Library here is amazing, check it out! :star::star:

[Noelle]

Just the subject that I have been discussing (debating) with a family member over the last couple of days. I've been looking into the practice of sacrifice in Christianity, specifically Christ's death, which fulfilled the "old covenant sacrificial system"; the Eucharistic transubstantiation; and animal and human sacrifices, in the past up until to the present. It becomes more and more clear that Christianity is not what many Christians think it is.

[justntime2learn]

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled wasn't convincing the world that he didn't exist but rather it was convincing people that HE was GOD.

The Cathars went further and saw the entire material plane as sinful and ruled by this imposter so the goal was to cleanse oneself of the body. Not in a suicide way of course but to live righteously and then go to the plane of GOD. They also viewed Jesus, at least some of them, as an emanation from heaven and not a flesh and blood being as he was too pure for that. Or at least this is what I understand of it. Man I of love Graham Hancocks and Robert Bauvals book on that subject!

Brilliant!

Does anyone really believe that the Devil Comes with horns, forked tail and pitchfork?

Or does he come as everything you desire?

[Lifebringer]

There are two. While one was born of God, the other of Lucifer through occult spells and a virgin sacrifice. The one of Rome was of Zeus, Apollo, and other demi gods on the earth. One of Heaven. One copies or imitates, the other actually does the miracles and is the Redeemer/Salvation. The black one crucified was the real one NOT accepted. I AM THAT IAM. Ahayah Assur Ahayah, Son Y'ashayah. His name was removed from the diacese to put the pedophile Caesar Borgia Michaelangelo's lover and the 6th POPE's illigitimate son that raped his sister and killed his brother. This is Satan's deceit upon the world. Remember Christ told the Hebrew Isrealites that "They will hate you, as they did me." And they do hate us here. WE have only been given the 398 year history of slavery and post history, but the real history is that America and England forefathers KNEW who we were and why we were in Africa fleeing from persecution. They called us HEEBOES on the slave posters, but we came from IUDAH. WE are that tribe and and no one would buy our freedom. So...it stands to reason that if Deuteronomy 28:14 happened, then since Hopi prophecy has come(all 9) true, the curse came true that the book is true. This isn't the first destruction of the earth because the people lost their damn minds. WE were to be a sign to all nations that if the MOST HIGH God did it to his chosen, woe to those who don't heed when HE comes again. America NEVER repented and Obediah the only 1 chaptered book is all about this nation, ONLY the RCC and Kings of England removed the Apocrypha that explains that. This is why the word in the bible is played over. Had the POPEs left it alone, every gentile/other human on the earth would have understood God's word as Christ wanted to teach all even gentiles the word. By hiding our history from us, the world has suffered wars and all kinds of evil. WE were supposed to be HIS priests. Notice how our voices, naturally go beautifully transit when we sing. IT comes from our souls, when we mourn, when we praise and when we give thanks. That is what was lost to us. Culture, our place in the world, and our land. UNTIL WE ARE BACK IN OUR LAND, EXPECT MORE TO COME. TELL THE FAKERS TO LEAVE, THEY PUT US IN SLAVERY AND BLAMED AMERICAN WHITES when they had the banks, boats and paid the captains and took out insurance on us if we died on the year journey in the bottom of the ships. Deut 28:29-68 NOBODY FITS THIS BUT US. Seriously. WE are the "hardheaded yoke of iron people, brought in to "egypt again/slavery" He comes, I'm not worried. I've done my job to tell the gentiles so they can repent. Your blood is NOT on my hands now, see. That is my reward, to tell the word of truth to the gentiles in the last days. Repent America and save your remnant.
PS, You're right though, HE is serious about following HIS laws for the universe and worlds. I think that's why HE sent HIS Son to have a little talk with our people. They/we rejected HIM with the "sanhedrin after being subjected to colloseum life as gladiators and if you didn't bow to the enemy/Harod, Xerxes, then you were put to death. The swinging bodies leading to Rome, were like the South where Southern fruit was hung on trees. Blood on the ground and blood on the leaves. My cousin Billy Holiday sang that song. Just thought you should know. She was a DAY and took the name Holiday. As in Holy Day.

[Lifebringer]

They mixed pagan beliefs in our HOLY days.God told us they would "change the image" reject HIS real image. If you go to the site: "YES, THEY WERE BLACK" You will see when you scroll down a Ashkanazi Jewish person whitening up the images. Thank God someone caught him or his family would lose their place in the book of life.
POPE has the real paintings of the deciples/apostles and even PAUL was black Hebrew Isrealite. They screwed up bad and I see why Christ told John to warn of the awakening of his people in the last days. I was given a 3 books of info. Finished one, still have yet to afford to publish, too much life financial distractions. There are 3. Season Of The Witnesses, Exodust, and REturn of the Witnesses. This last one deals with us after the destruction returning to bring the true word to those that survive it and were spared through repentance. Amazing down loads from 2006-2017. I am still waiting for the other parts to the other two. Since finishing I've gotten a little more, but told to print the 1st. So.... still waiting for that income to do so. I imagine like in the days of the apostles, that the word would come to those who follow covenant. HE said, therefore I believe. He's coming for us. NO man may buy or sell us out of captivity. ONLY Christ. He's all we had here in America. The signs are all around us, but some are blind and politically detached to notice.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

NO I think Satan is reptilian because God commanded him to crawl on his belly.

[DbDraad]

I'm a Christian, not a very good one, but I try. Since I was a boy, the Abraham sacrificing Izaak story bothered me. Why would God ask such a thing from Abraham, when He was supposed to be all knowing? I actually asked God to "explain" it to me. I almost got my answer instantly...God did not need Abraham to prove anything to Him, God asked for the sacrifice to show Abraham how much he loved God. In Abraham's time, human sacrifice was common place...Abraham probably expected some similar sacrifice some or other time. God showed him he was different AND he showed Abraham his devotion at the same time.
I did not "hear" this in my head, I just "got" it. After years of being bothered, I "got" it after asking.

[DbDraad]

OP. :
How old was Abraham at that time, and what happenen before? Abraham trusted God for years and a seemingly irrational request did not dissuade him from that trust...and it panned out well in the end.

[Foxie Loxie]

Interesting to read all the replies! The events of my own life forced to me to reexamine the belief system I had been brought up in. That led me to try to uncover exactly where The Bible had come from & why we referred to it as The Word of God! A child only knows what he or she has been programmed to believe while growing up. Most never bother to question & simply follow along the path they have been shown. Herve actually had a great post here about all this, but I don't remember what it was called! :facepalm: Perhaps someone else might remember??? We each have to draw our own conclusions, so I won't tell you mine! :gossip:

[bbow73]

I think Christianity is very misunderstood. It's easy to take an unsophisticated snapshot of what we see and draw unflattering conclusions. It's easier to take experiences with hundred of unsophisticated Christians around you and on TV and draw more unflattering conclusions. And easier yet, take our own experience in an unsophisticated church filled with indoctrinated consumers and make they representative of an entire religion.

I hope this will help:
1. Genesis is basically Hebrew mythology. An example of what the early practicers of YWHism may have taken as not true stories but stories that contain truth.
The general theological vibe is akin to how a baby (or infant race) would perceive it's surroundings
2. 'The Law' is just a record of judicial precedent for a very pre-enlightenment nomadic people that made sense in a desert mobile community.
The theological vibe is like a child becoming aware of unspoken behavioral rules about what is fair or unfair and when those rules are broken
3. 'The Prophets' and/or period of the patriarchs is an example of how practicers of YWHism interpreted (again, often in a primitive fashion) the circumstances and events around them. Basically stories of some people that may have had divine encounters or just acted out their cultural norms.
theological vibe=teenager, "why am I being punished? I was a good Jew!!! why aren't the Babylonians being punished? they were bad!!!"
4 'The Writings' are very subjective expressions, momentary emotional reactions (sometimes nice and sometimes angry) about God or Israel or people they were at war with.
theological vibe=college kid that thinks they are the first to discover philosophy and weed. "maybe 'good' & 'bad' don't equate to being 'blessed' or 'cursed' in this life... what if there is something MORE???"
5 The Gospels, Imagine a non-human has some message of hope for humanity. It decides to take human for so that the audience won't freak out at the sight of it and maybe be able to listen. Then imagine it decides to use a human language and culture in addition to appearance to further the chances of being heard. And then imagine it uses the existing spiritual narrative as a construct to make the message easier to receive... and then it gets killed for being too weird.
Theological vibe, Unconditional love, anything else perpetuates a cycle of violence, suffering, negative reinforcement, etc
6. The Epistles, regular Joes trying to make sense of it all.
7. The Bible, an anthology of the most frequently referenced writings in one easy to use volume.
I usually say that any religion is more than it's sacred text. And on top of that a sacred text is more than the literal words on the papyrus. It is just as misguided to take such a text literally as it is to judge it literally.
8. The non-canonical writings, a combination of real but not very useful writings of antiquity, real writings with some fan fiction embellishment, & fan fiction
If you have any cynicism about the integrity of a writing included in the Bible then it seems that more cynicism would be appropriate for writings not included in the Bible. The Gnostic writings for example were not written by Jewish or Christian scribes, they were a sort of ancient near-east relativists that were attracted to various religions in a phase of controversy or radicalism and produced their own 'mystic' writings based on the particular religion they were fascinated with.

[LadyKitt]

Welcome to Avalon, 6Denno! Love your reasoning! :highfive: Check out the videos here by Robert Stanley to zero in more on this "god"! Another good source are the videos by George Kavassilas! The works of Joseph Atwill add much to this discussion, if you are interested! The Library here is amazing, check it out! :star::star:

Goodness, a new angle I'd not encountered yet. Thanks for sharing that Foxie, and for this discussion thread 6Denno. There are many major figures who are attempting to find and normalize approaches and manors of discussion for Christians who are exploring so many formerly taboo topics in the ufo, paranormal and other realms, such as Michael S. Heiser. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOZ0KaUBkoU) Although I left the Church a good 50 years ago, Christianity and all organized religions provide endless insights and explanations into humanity's twists and turns for the last 2,000 plus years.

Kitt

[LadyKitt]

Lifebringer said: " They called us HEEBOES on the slave posters, but we came from IUDAH."

Hello Lifebringer, I looked up "Heeboes" in the Wikis and even the Urban Dictionary (a reach most likely), and finally a search engine produced a reference to Black Jews. Would you happen to have a link for additional research? Thanks. :)

[EFO]

Old testament (statement) with all his written and unwritten books/scrolls is a story,of an ancient civilization who inhabited Earth just before us,first spoken than written by our ancestors from our civilization with the warning that if we don't behave regarding planet's environment and human's interaction/s we'll be flushed away as previous was.This short message was,is and will be imprinted in every civilization who will inhabit this planet,until one will understand.Our civilization still don't understand,but we still have time,not much,but is still a chance.

New testament (statement) is an example of a being how humans should be to avoid to be flushed away,again.

How simple it is and it have nothing to do with actual practice of what is called religion.

If clerics will tell the truth will be an awakening,until than we'll sleep having all kind of dreams.

And a worth seeing movie
Pope Joan - movie trailer (2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKF4Lmt3NsM

[EFO]

And one more thing:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/fb/b2/f3/fbb2f3423d14c66631019519712e8c50.jpg

[LadyKitt]

Foxie Loxie said: "We each have to draw our own conclusions, so I won't tell you mine!"

No! Please don't ever think that! you have a combination of life experiences unique to you, and as this new information comes along your life's filter processes it and produces a perspective that someone like me might miss because I have not experienced the events of your life in the same way. Your conclusions and perspectives are priceless gems for me, and if you are uncomfortable sharing them here in this thread, please come visit me and we'll talk about it at our leisure, okay? :bigsmile:

[Tintin]

And one more thing:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/fb/b2/f3/fbb2f3423d14c66631019519712e8c50.jpg

Which is probably why they were inspired to name a pharmaceutical company after him. :handshake:

[Noelle]

I think Christianity is very misunderstood. It's easy to take an unsophisticated snapshot of what we see and draw unflattering conclusions. It's easier to take experiences with hundred of unsophisticated Christians around you and on TV and draw more unflattering conclusions. And easier yet, take our own experience in an unsophisticated church filled with indoctrinated consumers and make they representative of an entire religion.

I hope this will help:
1. Genesis is basically Hebrew mythology. An example of what the early practicers of YWHism may have taken as not true stories but stories that contain truth.
The general theological vibe is akin to how a baby (or infant race) would perceive it's surroundings
2. 'The Law' is just a record of judicial precedent for a very pre-enlightenment nomadic people that made sense in a desert mobile community.
The theological vibe is like a child becoming aware of unspoken behavioral rules about what is fair or unfair and when those rules are broken
3. 'The Prophets' and/or period of the patriarchs is an example of how practicers of YWHism interpreted (again, often in a primitive fashion) the circumstances and events around them. Basically stories of some people that may have had divine encounters or just acted out their cultural norms.
theological vibe=teenager, "why am I being punished? I was a good Jew!!! why aren't the Babylonians being punished? they were bad!!!"
4 'The Writings' are very subjective expressions, momentary emotional reactions (sometimes nice and sometimes angry) about God or Israel or people they were at war with.
theological vibe=college kid that thinks they are the first to discover philosophy and weed. "maybe 'good' & 'bad' don't equate to being 'blessed' or 'cursed' in this life... what if there is something MORE???"
5 The Gospels, Imagine a non-human has some message of hope for humanity. It decides to take human for so that the audience won't freak out at the sight of it and maybe be able to listen. Then imagine it decides to use a human language and culture in addition to appearance to further the chances of being heard. And then imagine it uses the existing spiritual narrative as a construct to make the message easier to receive... and then it gets killed for being too weird.
Theological vibe, Unconditional love, anything else perpetuates a cycle of violence, suffering, negative reinforcement, etc
6. The Epistles, regular Joes trying to make sense of it all.
7. The Bible, an anthology of the most frequently referenced writings in one easy to use volume.
I usually say that any religion is more than it's sacred text. And on top of that a sacred text is more than the literal words on the papyrus. It is just as misguided to take such a text literally as it is to judge it literally.
8. The non-canonical writings, a combination of real but not very useful writings of antiquity, real writings with some fan fiction embellishment, & fan fiction
If you have any cynicism about the integrity of a writing included in the Bible then it seems that more cynicism would be appropriate for writings not included in the Bible. The Gnostic writings for example were not written by Jewish or Christian scribes, they were a sort of ancient near-east relativists that were attracted to various religions in a phase of controversy or radicalism and produced their own 'mystic' writings based on the particular religion they were fascinated with.

I am still new to Gnostic teachings, but how those who embraced them were persecuted under the Roman Catholic banner! And as far as I am concerned, all religious belief systems call for equal cynicism.

[Tintin]

Jehovah. He is described, or rather describes himself as an authoritarian parent that must be obeyed without a doubt 100% of the time no matter what. No matter what? Or else what right? I mean you don't expect people to just bow down to you for no reason, I mean you don't even have a body, you are just a voice in my head. Well turns out Jehovah is well aware of the power of fear, and how to design it in such a way that the fear propagates across generations. How else but with stories of his wrath to his enemies and his expectations and rewards of his followers. So who was his biggest fan? Abraham of course, who else, and how did he get to be Jehovah's favorite? Well he was willing to perform human sacrifice to show him how much he was into him, not to mention it was his own son, not to mention that this voice in his head actually asked him to, not to mention that this psychopath made his son carry his own death tools up a ****ing mountain. Of course many believers overlook these simple truths, and still remain fixated on the ridiculous notion that Jehovah is God and that he loves them. I see a lot of similarities between Jehovah and his style of rule and that of dictators. They both instill fear in their subjects so as to more easily control them, they both lie compulsively while still acting in contrary to what he says he does or will do. In an awakened earth, religions based on faith would not be able to have as much influence as they do now. Its almost unimaginable, the fact that billions of Christians and Muslims go through life in fear of these discarnate entities, then again it makes sense why the world is such a horrible place to a lot of people. Imagine how different things would be if all that fear could be turned into love. The thing about a story is that it doesn't need to be rational so as to make its point or to create the desired feeling, you know, cartoons are still funny even if the laws of mathematics don't apply to them, we can however always apply logic to a story so as to derive the real truth and not the truth of the storyteller. This is why I say that faith based religions couldn't stand a chance in an enlightened world, because an enlightened world is made up of thinkers, mathematical, logical thinkers, of course this is not to say that we will all be autistic, rather that we will apply logic to everything, including information from the right brain, in the form of dreams, desires, intuitions and more. Think of how differently the story would have gone had Abraham applied logic to the voices in his head asking him to sacrifice his own son, he would probably have diagnosed himself with paranoid schizophrenia with just a hint of psychopathy. This is not meant to be a offensive to anyone based on your belief system, just that the point of the article was to highlight that belief and faith systems can have catastrophic results. It is my view that those most in need of such knowledge are also the least likely to seek it, because the process of rethinking ones perspective of life is both painful and hard but the rewards are so great that it doesn't seem like it was so hard once on the other side, it all begins with a decision, just decide that maybe you could have been lied to as a child, not because your parents don't want you know the truth but because they know that as the truth and often go to great lengths to make sure you see it as truth too. I obviously don't expect any believer to agree with me, as it should be, all I ask is that you be conscious the next time you think about God and worshiping him. Thank You:flower:

This is very interesting indeed. I do need to source, and forgive me for not having it immediately to hand - I will share of course - the etymological interpretation of Jeh - oh - vah . There is much in the Bible (Book of the Els - gods) which is symbolical and conveying a message. I will share as soon as I remember the reference. This is another example of 'yes, you' being represented here: I'll root around and share as soon as I can. In the meantime thank you for sharing this.

[bbow73]

I am still new to Gnostic teachings, but how those who embraced them were persecuted under the Roman Catholic banner! And as far as I am concerned, all religious belief systems call for equal cynicism.

The Roman Catholic institution is just a monarchy, nothing spiritual about it, nothing representative about it beyond their own drones.
My cynicism is mostly like, is all religion just some crap people made up because they were like, "yea, that seems like the way things are"?

Anyway, Gnostic philosophy is super fun.
1. we live in an illusory world
2. we are a part of an alpha divinity through a 'divine spark'
3. we can wake up from the illusion
4. we can commune with the divine and surpass our archon/Demiurge oppression
that by itself is not very controversial, most major religions have an aspect of these 4 pillars. And of course there's more to it than that.

My problem with Gnostic beliefs is that it's so internal... almost a selfish pursuit. "I'm going to evolve, I'm going to become enlightened. I'm going on to this next level journey."
One of the things I actually did like about Christianity was that it would only manifest in community. You grew by loving an unloveable. You got fed by feeding others. You became free by reciprocating fear and anger with compassion. That and they usually had fried chicken at all their gatherings.

[Noelle]

I am still new to Gnostic teachings, but how those who embraced them were persecuted under the Roman Catholic banner! And as far as I am concerned, all religious belief systems call for equal cynicism.

The Roman Catholic institution is just a monarchy, nothing spiritual about it, nothing representative about it beyond their own drones.
My cynicism is mostly like, is all religion just some crap people made up because they were like, "yea, that seems like the way things are"?

Anyway, Gnostic philosophy is super fun.
1. we live in an illusory world
2. we are a part of an alpha divinity through a 'divine spark'
3. we can wake up from the illusion
4. we can commune with the divine and surpass our archon/Demiurge oppression
that by itself is not very controversial, most major religions have an aspect of these 4 pillars. And of course there's more to it than that.

My problem with Gnostic beliefs is that it's so internal... almost a selfish pursuit. "I'm going to evolve, I'm going to become enlightened. I'm going on to this next level journey."
One of the things I actually did like about Christianity was that it would only manifest in community. You grew by loving an unloveable. You got fed by feeding others. You became free by reciprocating fear and anger with compassion. That and they usually had fried chicken at all their gatherings.

If I was forced to pick between the two, I would go with the "fun" one. Maybe if the Gnostic version had prevailed, instead of what we have now, we would have had more spiritually empowered individuals, which would have manifested in more spiritually empowered communities.

[bbow73]

I guess my point is that it doesn't matter what religion you choose, but how you do it. Whatever form your spiritual expression takes there's an inward path that focuses on yourself and an outward path that focuses on others. My inward focused friends are generally inconsiderate and unsatisfied.

[ghostrider]

For what it's worth, it is said Jehovah was the son of Jehav, son of Arus II, son of king Arus the barbarian ... He was of Lyrian descent originally, migrated to the Sirrus star system, then on to Earth, Mars, and Malona a destroyed planet which now circles as the asteroid belt... the scientists of king Arus secretly mated with wild earth females creating a new life form, us ... Arus sought to capture his rouge scientist, instead found a new way to control the new humans, religion...His sons carried on his total control up until around 1,500 years ago, they developed a degree of spirituality, and decided to leave the newly created humans to the course of natural evolution... He returned to the pleadies, where he lives in peace in an allied federation with the plejaren ... this is some information contained in the Edward Meier contact notes... its up to the individual what you choose to believe... not trying to sway anyone, just offering what I have read ... according to the plejaren Jehovah was a Lyrian ET , a blood thirsty tyrant , until he grew up spiritually and changed his mind...

[EFO]

For what it's worth, it is said Jehovah was the son of Jehav, son of Arus II, son of king Arus the barbarian ... He was of Lyrian descent originally, migrated to the Sirrus star system, then on to Earth, Mars, and Malona a destroyed planet which now circles as the asteroid belt... the scientists of king Arus secretly mated with wild earth females creating a new life form, us ... Arus sought to capture his rouge scientist, instead found a new way to control the new humans, religion...His sons carried on his total control up until around 1,500 years ago, they developed a degree of spirituality, and decided to leave the newly created humans to the course of natural evolution... He returned to the pleadies, where he lives in peace in an allied federation with the plejaren ... this is some information contained in the Edward Meier contact notes... its up to the individual what you choose to believe... not trying to sway anyone, just offering what I have read ... according to the plejaren Jehovah was a Lyrian ET , a blood thirsty tyrant , until he grew up spiritually and changed his mind...

So,nothing divine about jehovah.

[bbow73]

For what it's worth, it is said Jehovah was the son of Jehav, son of Arus II, son of king Arus the barbarian ... He was of Lyrian descent originally, migrated to the Sirrus star system, then on to Earth, Mars, and Malona a destroyed planet which now circles as the asteroid belt... the scientists of king Arus secretly mated with wild earth females creating a new life form, us ... Arus sought to capture his rouge scientist, instead found a new way to control the new humans, religion...His sons carried on his total control up until around 1,500 years ago, they developed a degree of spirituality, and decided to leave the newly created humans to the course of natural evolution... He returned to the pleadies, where he lives in peace in an allied federation with the plejaren ... this is some information contained in the Edward Meier contact notes... its up to the individual what you choose to believe... not trying to sway anyone, just offering what I have read ... according to the plejaren Jehovah was a Lyrian ET , a blood thirsty tyrant , until he grew up spiritually and changed his mind...

who said this?

[conk]

Go to Mary Sparrowdancer's website: http://www.sparrowdancer.com/ Scroll down to the story, "The Gospel of Judas, Barbelo and Long-Kept Secrets" Very intriguing. A good who is who story.

[DbDraad]

For Christians: we assume the Bible is the Word of God, but humans have been taking care of it for 2000 years. Satan would have tried to corrupt it for that whole time, but God and the Holy Spirit would not have allowed too much corruption. The various churches would have been corrupted by Satan even more. We are not to follow like sheep, but we must seek the truth. Blind faith is useless, God wants intelligent faith. We seek the truth in order to find it. The Spirit will guide us.

[shaberon]

... specifically Christ's death,... the Eucharistic transubstantiation...It becomes more and more clear that Christianity is not what many Christians think it is.

Christ not being anyone's personal name, if anything, being a spiritual principle, it couldn't die. A person may be called Chrestos, meaning "good, useful, reliable" rather than Christos.

The early followers of Jesus were almost all Gnostics (Ebionite, Marcionite, Nazarean), and yes, they were heavily persecuted and eventually killed by an institution which became the church, which has no scriptural basis. Subsequently they proceeded to invent numerous things, such as the Eucharistic Transubstantion as mentioned, Virgin birth, Vicarious Atonement, Confession, and so on, which rendered the Western branch into its current state, a sort of exclusivist cult, modernized vessel of Jehovah, who, at best, was an old tribal power.

To the extent there could be considered a "Creator" of this world, it is neither perfect nor the true deity, neither did it create but rather shaped eternal matter. So to yearn for this type of being is not something I personally could ever contemplate.

The scripture as generally known conflates Jehovah, Adonai Tsabaoth and Elohim, generally putting these forth as "pick a name, they're all the same", whereas they ought to be distinguished.

[Paprika]

Some additional viewpoints to throw into the discussion:

1. Genesis Of The Grail Kings - a book (https://www.amazon.com/Genesis-Grail-Kings-Explosive-Bloodline/dp/1931412936/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1498083678&sr=1-2&keywords=genesis+of+the+grail+kings) by Laurence Gardner

http://www.graal.co.uk/images/books/genesis_of_the_grail_kings_230x354.jpg

Whereas Bloodline of the Holy Grail traced the line of Messianic kingly descent over the past 2,000 years, this second book goes back to the beginning of this line 4,000 years earlier in Mesopotamia. It ties the Old Testament to its earlier influences in Sumer, relating the accounts in Genesis to their original Mesopotamian sources and showing how stories ranging from Adam & Eve's Garden of Eden and Cain & Abel to Noah's Flood have their own "genesis" in the much older stories of the Anunnaki taken from the remarkable Sumerian cuneiform tablets that have only been uncovered within the past hundred years.

Genesis of The Grail Kings Full Lecture Transcript


It is worth remembering, therefore, that the biblical edict to abstain from blood came not from Enki the Wise, but from Enlil-Jehovah, the god of wrath and vengeance who had instigated the Flood, wrought havoc in Ur and Babylon, and had endeavoured to deceive Adam by saying that he would die if he ate from the Tree of Knowledge.

Read the full lecture here (http://www.graal.co.uk/genesis_lecture_full_1.php).

2. Is Jehovah an E.T.? - a book (https://www.amazon.com/Jehovah-E-T-Dorothy-Leon/dp/1886940835/ref=la_B001K7VOC0_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1498083380&sr=1-1) by Dorothy Leon

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51SF3YEB07L._SX299_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

This book describes the origins and activities of various space beings who have posed as "gods". Pinpoints the many Biblical scriptures and other "sacred texts" that describe spacecraft. Exposes recent alien visitations that have inspired modern religions. Using quotes from Biblical scriptures and other sacred writings, this book offers new interpretation to cherished concepts. * Jehovah and JHWH are not the same being. * We were manipulated and duped by E.T.'s posing as "gods". * There is a true God far beyond these imposters. * The "Ark fo the Covenant" was a communication device. * Jesus was sent to nullify Jehovah, the "Father of Lies". * Jesus taught us to see beyond the controlling E.T.'s to the inner Devine Forces.

A reader of this book posted excerpts from each chapter posted here (http://www.ghanaforum.com/showthread.php/20671-Is-Jehovah-an-E-T-(Extraterrestrial)-By-Dorothy-Leon).

{warning, the audio quality of the first video below starts off sketchy, but improves within a couple of minutes after they switch Dorothy's mic}

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y57UbkMZXBE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_ww8HXpcf8

[Spiral]

I am still new to Gnostic teachings, but how those who embraced them were persecuted under the Roman Catholic banner! And as far as I am concerned, all religious belief systems call for equal cynicism.

The Roman Catholic institution is just a monarchy, nothing spiritual about it, nothing representative about it beyond their own drones.
My cynicism is mostly like, is all religion just some crap people made up because they were like, "yea, that seems like the way things are"?

Anyway, Gnostic philosophy is super fun.
1. we live in an illusory world
2. we are a part of an alpha divinity through a 'divine spark'
3. we can wake up from the illusion
4. we can commune with the divine and surpass our archon/Demiurge oppression
that by itself is not very controversial, most major religions have an aspect of these 4 pillars. And of course there's more to it than that.

My problem with Gnostic beliefs is that it's so internal... almost a selfish pursuit. "I'm going to evolve, I'm going to become enlightened. I'm going on to this next level journey."
One of the things I actually did like about Christianity was that it would only manifest in community. You grew by loving an unloveable. You got fed by feeding others. You became free by reciprocating fear and anger with compassion. That and they usually had fried chicken at all their gatherings.

I wasted a lot on Gnosis, prolly because of interference via abductions, Catholicism on the other hand has a lot going for it, which is why everyone attacks it, the Communion is about as powerful as you can get, which is proved by black magicians trying to steal consecrated hosts !

This all goes beyond being here, and getting beyond being here is the only goal anyone should be attaining too !

[ghostrider]

Semjase, the plejaren woman who began speaking with Edward Meier in January 1975... Her race is a splinter group of Lyrian descent, the other group went to the Orion region...

[bbow73]

Go to Mary Sparrowdancer's website: http://www.sparrowdancer.com/ Scroll down to the story, "The Gospel of Judas, Barbelo and Long-Kept Secrets" Very intriguing. A good who is who story.

okay, I see whats going on. The Gnostic writings are not Christian writings. They are mystic writings that appropriate a variety of religions, and in the case of 'forbidden' or 'lost' or 'secret' Gospels they are appropriating Christian narratives. It's fan fiction. Don't get me wrong, there is a lot to enjoy from Gnostic philosophy (especially if you liked the movie The Matrix) but there are no manuscripts or fragments that will support authorship or authenticity.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


For Christians: we assume the Bible is the Word of God, but humans have been taking care of it for 2000 years. Satan would have tried to corrupt it for that whole time, but God and the Holy Spirit would not have allowed too much corruption. The various churches would have been corrupted by Satan even more. We are not to follow like sheep, but we must seek the truth. Blind faith is useless, God wants intelligent faith. We seek the truth in order to find it. The Spirit will guide us.

please don't lump all Christians together. The circle I ran in didn't profess the Bible to be the word of God, we understood that Jesus was the word of God. Also we didn't believe in Satan or Hell.

[bbow73]

[QUOTE=bbow73;1161707]
I wasted a lot on Gnosis, prolly because of interference via abductions, Catholicism on the other hand has a lot going for it...

I should have worded my post more carefully, I try to make a distinction between the Roman Catholic entity and the religion of Catholicism. One of my favorite teachers is a Franciscan. Taught me a lot about the value and method of incorporating personal experience and mindful tradition into my theology.

[6Denno]

You are right,we should be free to show other people our perspectives. Especially here where the ratio of awake people to sleepwalkers is drastically different from the one out there.

[Foxie Loxie]

I would strongly suggest anyone who has not done so, should check out the life story of Robert Stanley. What he has lived through & his slant on "The Father" is most unique & seems to go a long way in adding to our understanding the bigger picture of things. It really doesn't matter which version of the Christian church one subscribes to...ALL are based upon what happened in the 300's when a "control" was placed upon which books could be circulated & which could not. Control of the masses is what Rome wanted, & they achieved that! :Angel:

[DbDraad]

Go to Mary Sparrowdancer's website: http://www.sparrowdancer.com/ Scroll down to the story, "The Gospel of Judas, Barbelo and Long-Kept Secrets" Very intriguing. A good who is who story.

okay, I see whats going on. The Gnostic writings are not Christian writings. They are mystic writings that appropriate a variety of religions, and in the case of 'forbidden' or 'lost' or 'secret' Gospels they are appropriating Christian narratives. It's fan fiction. Don't get me wrong, there is a lot to enjoy from Gnostic philosophy (especially if you liked the movie The Matrix) but there are no manuscripts or fragments that will support authorship or authenticity.

¤=[Post Update]=¤


For Christians: we assume the Bible is the Word of God, but humans have been taking care of it for 2000 years. Satan would have tried to corrupt it for that whole time, but God and the Holy Spirit would not have allowed too much corruption. The various churches would have been corrupted by Satan even more. We are not to follow like sheep, but we must seek the truth. Blind faith is useless, God wants intelligent faith. We seek the truth in order to find it. The Spirit will guide us.

please don't lump all Christians together. The circle I ran in didn't profess the Bible to be the word of God, we understood that Jesus was the word of God. Also we didn't believe in Satan or Hell.

My apologies, not trying to lump all Christians together and I agree that Jesus is actually the "Word of God". ...actual point being that the Bible might have been and lots of churches have definitely been corrupted over the years.