View Full Version : North Korea: To the rest of the free world it's wake-up time!!!
Before conflict begins it's disappointing to notice how quiet the rest of the World is on this matter. Where are the European leaders voices? What is their solution? Conflict will cause great tragedy and for freedom loving people we cannot standby quietly and let North Korea hold the rest of the world in fear. The leaders should be talking now individually or as a Union because when the bombing begins it will be too late for many...
Cidersomerset
4th July 2017, 19:05
funny enough I am just about to post this on the WW111 thread , the timing is odd
as the President of China is in Russia now and the world leaders are meeting at the
G20 this week. Its as if North Korea is 'bating' the world or sending President Trump
a 4th of July message and ensure Korea will be on the table in Hamburg.
Though I do not think they are touting for a war but just reminding the US in
particular not to do a Iraq or Libya on them as has been suggested in the western
media for decades but to actually end the Korean war from the 1950's which is still
technically not over as a peace agreement was never signed and an armistice has
been in effect all this time. Thus to lead the way to end sanctions and bring North
Korea into the 21st century from their point of view.
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North Korea missile 'could reach Alaska' - BBC News
rDAtGyt1T2w
Published on 4 Jul 2017
North Korea says it has successfully tested its first "intercontinental ballistic
missile". A state television announcement said the missile, which landed in the Sea
of Japan on Tuesday, could hit targets anywhere in the world. But the US and
Russia said the missile had a medium range and presented no threat to either
country. Seoul correspondent Steve Evans reports.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-40497972
====================================================
====================================================
'Freeze nuclear & missile activities': Russia, China call for moratorium on N. Korean tests
wFANOtIR_f0
Published on 4 Jul 2017
Moscow and Beijing have agreed that North Korea should freeze its nuclear and
missile programs, while the US and South Korea should abstain from holding war
games in the region, Russian President Vladimir Putin said.
===================================================
===================================================
North Korea a top priority as Trump attends first G20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4Njt16azMI
Published on 4 Jul 2017
Kristin Fisher reports from Warsaw, Poland
===================================================
===================================================
President Trump reacts to North Korean missile launch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS8slfT6gLE
Published on 4 Jul 2017
President Trump reacted on Twitter to North Korea's claims of a successful ICBM
launch, calling for China to use a "heavy move" in retaliation. Bloomberg News
White House reporter Toluse Olorunnipa joins CBSN to discuss.
No doubt Trump response will be to tweet.:bigsmile:
One question remain : Is Trump still up for a KFC summit with Kim Jong-un? Just kidding... :highfive:
In addition : So actually, nothing happened. N. Korea tested a missile, which it has every right to do, Trump tweeted, and that's it.
Matt P
4th July 2017, 19:34
How is a small country that is barely able to launch a missile, much less direct it to an exact location anywhere, a threat to countries that could completely destroy it overnight if they dared try to launch? This N Korea game has never made any sense.
Matt
Cidersomerset
4th July 2017, 19:55
This N Korea game has never made any sense.
It has some similarities to Israel in that both were created after
the end of WW II , Israel displaced the Palestinians as an on going
agreement by the French and British to set up a Jewish homeland
in the area after the collapse of the Ottoman empire in WW1.
Korea was part of the Japanese empire and split into two after
WW11 similar to Germany at the 38th parallel the border today
the rest you should look up if interested but like everything is
more complicated than at first sight particularly in the mainstream
press.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea
neutronstar
4th July 2017, 20:06
This N Korea game has never made any sense.
Matt
Yes it does. We still need enemies so we can make our military even bigger. Continued growth. It is the corporate model.
turiya
4th July 2017, 20:12
No doubt Trump response will be to tweet.:bigsmile:
________________________________
http://curezone.com/upload/_T_Forums/Turiya_Files_/AVALON/TRUMP/TRUMP_TWEETS/TRUMP_TWITTER_ICON_5.png (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/882061157900718081)
North Korea has just launched another
missile. Does this guy have anything better to
do with his life? Hard to believe that South
Korea.....
7:19 PM - 3 Jul 2017
________________________________
http://curezone.com/upload/_T_Forums/Turiya_Files_/AVALON/TRUMP/TRUMP_TWEETS/TRUMP_TWITTER_ICON_5.png (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/882062572081512449)
....and Japan will put up with this much
longer. Perhaps China will put a heavy move
on North Korea and end this nonsense once
and for all!
7:24 PM - 3 Jul 2017
________________________________
http://curezone.com/upload/_T_Forums/Turiya_Files_/AVALON/TRUMP/4CHAN_SMILEY_FACE1.png
This N Korea game has never made any sense.
Matt
Yes it does. We still need enemies so we can make our military even bigger. Continued growth. It is the corporate model.
The benefits of the corporate model are hard to see in Iraq neutronstar... Iraq was not responsible for the 9/11 attacks, many Americans continue to believe he was involved... Except for the curse of oil ! :playball:
Cidersomerset
4th July 2017, 20:43
A couple of short vids giving some background to the conflict in Korea
Korean War overview | The 20th century | World history | Khan Academy
MEGyRgYJKEY
Recorded 2011
==============================================
==============================================
Korean War - BBC 20th century history file
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLr8FlMPzPc
==============================================
Made as the US was getting more engulfed in another pointless South Asia
conflict in Vietnam that killed and maimed millions of soldiers and civilians .
M.A.S.H. was one of the great anti war movies later adapted to the classic TV show
MASH film opening - shows a forward medical base a few miles from the front
line somewhere in Korea, receiving casualties and rushing to save those they could.
HlnB34ZDo9g
MASH
… Drama · 1966
…This classic American war comedy received an Oscar® nomination for Best Picture
and spawned one of the most popular shows ever to run on television. It focuses on
three army surgeons (Donald Sutherland, Elliott Gould and Tom Skerritt) who develop
a lunatic lifestyle in order to handle the everyday horrors they encounter in the Korean
War. Sally Kellerman, Gary Burghoff and Robert Duvall co-star in this disarming mix
of slapstick, merciless fun and tragedy.
Actors:
… Donald Sutherland, Elliott Gould, Tom Skerritt, Sally Kellerman, Robert Duvall, Jo Ann Pflug, Rene Auberjonois
Director: Robert Altman
Mash Trailer 1970
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAVdl2N-zbc
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The problem with war apart from the horrors there has always been the thrills that
has made it for some the ultimate extreme sport , sick as that sounds it goes back
through out known history , and even today the vast majority of people serving
in the militaries of the world professional or drafted do not see conflict , but are
a deterent.
turiya
4th July 2017, 21:31
This N Korea game has never made any sense.
Matt
I think this video can point to a few good reasons (@8m29s - 13m) why North Korea?
Current Economic Collapse
News Brief - Episode 1323 (https://youtu.be/K4-1VwicKD4?t=8m29s)
(Published on Jul 4, 2017)
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/elRa8nEiNAk/hqdefault.jpg
VIDEO (https://youtu.be/K4-1VwicKD4?t=8m29s)
_________Relevant Articles_________
Putin, Xi Call For North Korean Freeze on Missile Tests (https://www.voanews.com/a/putin-xi-call-for-north-korean-freeze-on-missile-tests/3927712.html)
Russian President Vladimir Putin announced that he would coordinate with Chinese counterpart Xi Jinping to promote their plan to work with North Korea’s
“We’ve agreed to robustly promote our joint initiative to find a solution to the Korean issue based on the Russian step-by-step program, and the Chinese ideas of concurrently freezing DPRK’s nuclear activity
Source: voanews.com
North Korea Sitting on $6 Trillion in Mineral Resources (http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/north-korea-trillion-dollar-mineral-resources/2017/07/03/id/799604/)
North Korea has been using opium to keep the country operational, the CIA and other intel agencies don’t like the competition
NK is in a strategic location for China
North Korea has an estimated $6 trillion in minerals beneath its surface
Among the 200 minerals buried beneath the mountainous country are iron, gold, magnesite, zinc, copper, limestone, molybdenum and graphite. North Korea also has reserves of rare earth metals needed to make high tech products such as smartphones.
While a conservative estimate from South Korea’s state-owned mining company put the figure at $6 trillion, a South Korean research institute has said the value of North Korea’s minerals might be closer to $10 trillion
Source: newsmax.com
.
This N Korea game has never made any sense.
Matt
I think this video can point to a few good reasons (@8m29s - 13m) why North Korea?
Current Economic Collapse
News Brief - Episode 1323 (https://youtu.be/K4-1VwicKD4?t=8m29s)
(Published on Jul 4, 2017)
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/elRa8nEiNAk/hqdefault.jpg
VIDEO (https://youtu.be/K4-1VwicKD4?t=8m29s)
_________Relevant Articles_________
Putin, Xi Call For North Korean Freeze on Missile Tests (https://www.voanews.com/a/putin-xi-call-for-north-korean-freeze-on-missile-tests/3927712.html)
Russian President Vladimir Putin announced that he would coordinate with Chinese counterpart Xi Jinping to promote their plan to work with North Korea’s
“We’ve agreed to robustly promote our joint initiative to find a solution to the Korean issue based on the Russian step-by-step program, and the Chinese ideas of concurrently freezing DPRK’s nuclear activity
Source: voanews.com
North Korea Sitting on $6 Trillion in Mineral Resources (http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/north-korea-trillion-dollar-mineral-resources/2017/07/03/id/799604/)
North Korea has been using opium to keep the country operational, the CIA and other intel agencies don’t like the compeition
NK is in a strategic location for China
North Korea has an estimated $6 trillion in minerals beneath its surface
Among the 200 minerals buried beneath the mountainous country are iron, gold, magnesite, zinc, copper, limestone, molybdenum and graphite. North Korea also has reserves of rare earth metals needed to make high tech products such as smartphones.
While a conservative estimate from South Korea’s state-owned mining company put the figure at $6 trillion, a South Korean research institute has said the value of North Korea’s minerals might be closer to $10 trillion
Source: newsmax.com
.
Same old same old its been in the news since 2014 :
s92zNjIbGps
neutronstar
4th July 2017, 21:55
This N Korea game has never made any sense.
Matt
Yes it does. We still need enemies so we can make our military even bigger. Continued growth. It is the corporate model.
The benefits of the corporate model are hard to see in Iraq neutronstar... Iraq was not responsible for the 9/11 attacks, many Americans continue to believe he was involved... Except for the curse of oil ! :playball:
Who said anything about benefits of the corporate model. The corporate model is a cancer to our society, but corporations benefited enormously in Iraq. First they made money making everything you need for warfare. Then they made money rebuilding the country, or trying to rebuild. That country is still a mess. Wars have been and always will be about profit.
And if you didn't get it in my first post. I was being sarcastic.
[QUOTE=mojo;1164422 and let North Korea hold the rest of the world in fear. ...[/QUOTE]
North korea holds the rest of the world in fear? funny, so US gov now is the hero? Maybe we should be more careful in putting thought in words.
If all the leaders of the world will follow north Korea example to stand up against the monster the world will be a lot better place sooner. Not saying that we should be madmen, just stand up against the aggressors. Our current president is one good example for world leaders thus its no wonder for me that the bastards is trying to create a Syria scenario in our country. I've known this even before it happened simply because our government resist the PTB. If more and more country will follow this example the PTB will loose sooner.
Cidersomerset
5th July 2017, 05:44
G20 protests: Police uses water cannons against crowd in Hamburg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6sYixb9D78
Published on 4 Jul 2017
As thousands of protesters converge on Hamburg to protest the G20 leaders summit,
city authorities have introduced unprecedented security measures. Footage shared on
social media shows dozens of police officers in full riot gear descending on the activists.
Behind the police, lines of water cannons that are being used against the protesters.
READ MORE: https://on.rt.com/8h0r
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North Korea conducts new missile test, launched towards Sea of Japan
HklxuRrSmp4
Published on 4 Jul 2017
North Korea claims it tested an intercontinental missile, however Russia's Defense Ministry
says it was only a medium-range missile. Donald Trump has tweeted his reaction, demanding
from China, a 'heavy move' on its neighbour.
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President Trump reacts to North Korean missile launch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS8slfT6gLE
Published on 4 Jul 2017
President Trump reacted on Twitter to North Korea's claims of a successful ICBM launch, calling
for China to use a "heavy move" in retaliation. Bloomberg News White House reporter Toluse
Olorunnipa joins CBSN to discuss
==============================================
Debate: N Korea’s latest missile launch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdtqbdaTfxU
Published on 4 Jul 2017
Where is the situation headed on the Korean peninsula after Pyongyang’s ‘successful ICBM launch’?
Do you think President Trump’s approach toward the North Korean missile and nukes programs would
de-escalate the tensions or simply exacerbate them?
mgray
5th July 2017, 11:50
I found it absolutely amazing that I woke up early Wednesday morning here in the States and found stock market futures in the green on this news. Around the globe there is no fear of a nuclear warhead being launched as markets move higher. I wrote (https://grayseconomy.com/2017/07/05/even-a-noko-nuclear-missile-cant-shake-the-stock-markets-fed-watch/) on this this morning
justntime2learn
5th July 2017, 16:17
How is a small country that is barely able to launch a missile, much less direct it to an exact location anywhere, a threat to countries that could completely destroy it overnight if they dared try to launch? This N Korea game has never made any sense.
Matt
I've always loved reading your posts Matt.
I'm just curious if the ballistic missile testing isn't a smokescreen to divert attention from what a possible North Korean agenda is.
As far as I know they have successfully tested A hydrogen bomb so couldn't they put one on a submarine and pull close to a harbor or even get close to a battle group and detonate?
Anyone know?
Are there other possibilities I haven't thought of?
Cidersomerset
5th July 2017, 19:53
keeping up the usual rhetoric and options open....( longer version )
Haley: Time to escalate response to N Korea
oJd-hixRKYk
Published on 5 Jul 2017
US Ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley says that sanctions against
North Korea has not worked and it is time to escalate actions against them in
wake of its latest missile test.
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U.S. And South Korea Hold Joint Missile Drills In Show Of Force Against North | NBC News
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qesylItd3mQ
Published on 5 Jul 2017
The day after North Korea test-fired an ICBM, U.S. and S. Korean military
conducted a missile drill to show battle readiness
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North Korea Releases Video Of ICBM Test | NBC News
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnD4R2qIiYE
Published on 5 Jul 2017
The day after North Korea test-fired an ICBM, U.S. and S. Korean military
conducted a missile drill to show battle readiness.
===================================================
U.N. Security Council holds emergency meeting after North Korea missile test
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoWfvycLsrU
Published on 5 Jul 2017
The U.N. Security Council is holding an emergency meeting following North Korea's
recent ICBM test. Bruce Klingner, former CIA deputy director for North Korea and
senior research fellow at the Heritage Foundation, joins CBSN to discuss the latest.
====================================================
Nikki Haley is an awesome Ambassador and that was the message that was needed to be delivered, ty Nikki now its time to see what the Europeans say that will be the test...not Russia or China that have different motives. The U.S. shouldnt act unilaterally until exhausting every option...
turiya
6th July 2017, 01:16
More from X22Report on North Korea... Particular video segment starts @8:05...
Did You Feel The Shift With China,
Russia & The US? - Episode 1324b (https://youtu.be/jMyKOLNiMrc?t=8m5s)
(Published on Jul 5, 2017)
https://img8.eadaily.com/c500x281/o/f3b/5cf29ac3f84e98e58bd87bbea59ad.jpg
VIDEO (https://youtu.be/jMyKOLNiMrc?t=8m5s)
__________Relevant Articles__________
________________________________
http://curezone.com/upload/_T_Forums/Turiya_Files_/AVALON/TRUMP/TRUMP_TWEETS/TRUMP_TWITTER_ICON_5.png (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/882558219285131265)
The United States made some of the worst
Trade Deals in world history.Why should we
continue these deals with countries that do
not help us?
4:14 AM - 5 Jul 2017
________________________________
http://curezone.com/upload/_T_Forums/Turiya_Files_/AVALON/TRUMP/TRUMP_TWEETS/TRUMP_TWITTER_ICON_5.png (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/882560030884716544)
Trade between China and North Korea grew
almost 40% in the first quarter. So much for
China working with us - but we had to give it
a try!
4:21 AM - 5 Jul 2017
________________________________
China Defends North Korea Efforts After Trump Outburst (http://news.antiwar.com/2017/07/04/china-defends-north-korea-efforts-after-trump-outburst/)
China’s Foreign Ministry spurned US demands for them to do more with respect to North Korea, saying that they’ve been making “relentless efforts” to reach a settlement (http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/china-defends-north-korea-efforts-after-donald-trump-outburst-1720407) to resolve the North Korea dispute. They added that all nations should show restraint after North Korea’s ICBM test.[/B]
Source: news.antiwar.com
The truth about North Korea: it’s booming (http://theduran.com/truth-north-korea-booming/)
The Financial Times article highlights an important point about North Korea. The negative growth of -1% of per capita GDP claimed by the Bank of Korea in Seoul, which is so obviously at odds with the true facts, reflects the uniformly negative reporting of North Korea by South Korea’s media and institutions. Many of the worst stories which circulate about North Korea, including the regular tales of power struggles and purges within the North Korean government, of corruption by Kim Jong-un and his entourage, and of economic failure and deprivation across the whole country, originate in South Korea (i.e. "Fake News" propaganda)
If North Korea really is achieving per capita annual GDP growth rates of 9% as claimed by the Hyundai Research Institute, and if salaries really have grown 250-1,200% over the last 10 years, then North Korea has the fastest growing economy in the industrialised world, and its people are seeing the fastest growth in real incomes in the world.
That no doubt explains the growing self-confidence of the North Korean leadership and the genuine popularity
One of the great problems of the West is that it always seem to struggle to recognise or adjust to a change of reality in any particular given situation.
Just as the West imposed economic sanctions on Russia in 2014 in the completely mistaken belief that Russia’s economy is a house of cards – which is what it was in the 1990s – so the West still believes that North Korea is a basket case one step away from total collapse, as it also was in the 1990s.
In the case of North Korea, what the West believes is the ‘magic bullet’ – Chinese sanctions – will never happen on anything like the scale the West wants or which would make a significant difference.
Source: theduran.com
TRUMP CALLS FOR U.N. EMERGENCY MEETING ON N. KOREA (http://www.wnd.com/2017/07/trump-calls-for-u-n-emergency-meeting-on-n-korea/)
U.S. threatens military force against North Korea (http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/north-korea-missiles-un-sanctions-us-1.4191601?cmp=rss)
U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley said on Wednesday that North Korea’s actions were “quickly closing off the possibility of a diplomatic solution” and the United States was prepared to defend itself and its allies.
She said the United States would propose new UN sanctions on North Korea “in the coming days.” She also warned that Washington was prepared to cut off trade with countries trading with North Korea in violation of UN resolutions.
Source: cbc.ca
Kim Jong-un gets what he wants: the Russian-Chinese joint statement on Korean conflict (full text and analysis) (http://theduran.com/russian-chinese-joint-statement-korea/)
Since this document is not easy to find, I set out the full text with the key points highlighted...
The Russian Federation and the People’s Republic of China are the Korean Peninsula’s neighbours, therefore the development of the situation in the region concerns the national interests of both countries. Russia and China will closely coordinate their efforts in order to promote a complex solution to the Korean Peninsula’s problems, including that of the nuclear issue, for the sake of achieving a lasting peace and stability in Northeast Asia. In the spirit of strategic cooperation the foreign ministries of Russia and China (hereinafter referred to as Parties) state the following:
1. The Parties are seriously worried by the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (DPRK)’s statement of July 4, 2017 about a ballistic missile launch and consider this statement unacceptable and in disharmony with the relevant UN Security Council resolutions.
2. The Parties express serious concern about the development of the situation on the Korean Peninsula and around it. Mounting political and military tension in that region, fraught with the eruption of an armed conflict, are calling on the international community to adopt collective measures to settle the situation peacefully through dialogue and consultations. The Parties oppose any statements or moves that might escalate tension or aggravate the contradictions and urge all countries concerned to maintain calm, renounce provocative moves or bellicose rhetoric, demonstrate readiness for dialogue without preconditions and work actively together to defuse tension.
3.The Parties are putting forward a joint initiative, which is based on the Chinese-proposed ideas of “double freezing” (missile and nuclear activities by the DPRK and large-scale joint exercises by the United States and the Republic of Korea) and “parallel advancement” towards the denuclearisation of the Korean Peninsula and the creation of peace mechanisms on the peninsula, and the Russian-proposed stage-by-stage Korean settlement plan.
The Parties propose the following:
The DPRK, by way of a voluntary political decision, announces a moratorium on the testing of nuclear explosive devices and ballistic missile tests, and the United States and the Republic of Korea should, accordingly, refrain from large-scale joint exercises. Simultaneously, the conflicting parties begin talks and assert common principles of their relations, including the non-use of force, the renunciation of aggression, peaceful coexistence and determination to do all they can to denuclearise the Korean Peninsula with a view to promoting a complex resolution of all problems, including the nuclear issue. During the negotiating process, all parties concerned push forward, in a format suitable to them, the creation on the peninsula and in Northeast Asia of a peace and security mechanism and consequently normalise relations between the countries in question.
The Parties urge the international community to support the aforementioned initiative that paves the real way for resolving the Korean Peninsula’s problems.
4.The Parties are resolutely committed to the international non-proliferation regime and are firmly aimed at the denuclearisation of the Korean Peninsula and a comprehensive and full implementation of the relevant UN Security Council resolutions. The Parties intend, jointly with other parties concerned, to continue making efforts to facilitate the balanced removal of the existing concerns via dialogue and consultations.
The Parties confirm that the DPRK’s justified concerns should be respected. Other states must make relevant efforts to have talks resumed and jointly to create an atmosphere of peacefulness and mutual trust.
The Parties are calling on all parties involved to comply with the commitments formulated in the Joint Statement of September 19, 2005, and to re-launch, as soon as possible, the dialogue on the comprehensive resolution of problems on the Korean Peninsula. Any possibility of using military means to solve the problems of the Korean Peninsula should be ruled out.
5. The Parties express support for the North and the South of the Korean Peninsula to conduct dialogue and consultations, display benevolence towards each other, improve relations, cooperate in the matter of a peaceful settlement, and play a due role in defusing the situation on the Korean Peninsula and in resolving its problems in a proper manner.
6. The Parties confirm that they are paying sufficient attention to the maintenance of the international and regional balance and stability, and emphasise that allied relations between separate states should not inflict damage on the interests of third parties. They are against any military presence of extra-regional forces in Northeast Asia and its build-up under the pretext of counteracting the DPRK’s missile and nuclear programmes.
The Parties confirm that the deployment of THAAD antimissile systems in Northeast Asia is inflicting serious damage on strategic security interests of regional states, including Russia and China, and does nothing to help achieve the aims of the Korean Peninsula’s denuclearisation, nor to ensure peace and stability in the region.
Russia and China are against the deployment of the said systems, call on the relevant countries to immediately stop and cancel the deployment process, and have agreed to adopt the necessary measures to protect the two countries’ security interests and to ensure a strategic balance in the region.
This statement was signed on July 4, 2017, in Moscow.
Source: theduran.com
Summary:
The key points to take away from this statement are the following
(1) The Russians and the Chinese are coordinating their positions on the Korean issue “in the spirit of their strategic cooperation” (ie. their alliance). What this means in effect is that China can count on Russia’s support in its dealings with the US on the Korean issue.
(2) The Russians and the Chinese accept that North Korea has justified security concerns and consider that these should be respected. In other words they both oppose regime change in North Korea.
(3) The Russians and the Chinese categorically oppose any US military action against North Korea. The Russians support the Chinese initiative whereby
==>(i) North Korea freezes its nuclear testing and ballistic missile programme;
==>(ii) the US and South Korea cease further joint military exercises on the Korean Peninsula;
==>(iii) the US and North Korea, and North Korea and South Korea commence direct talks with each other aimed at a comprehensive settlement of the conflict on the Korean Peninsula (“the comprehensive resolution of problems on the Korean Peninsula”).
(4) The Russians and the Chinese consider the US’s deployment of THAAD on the Korean Peninsula destabilising and a threat to the international balance of power.
S Korea Invites N Korea to Attend 2018 Pyeongchang Olympics Despite Missile Test (https://sputniknews.com/sport/201707051055249413-korea-pm-olympic-games/)
South Korean Prime Minister Lee Nak-yon on Wednesday invited North Korea to take part in the 2018 Pyeongchang Winter Olympic Games despite tensions over North Korea’s recent missile test.
Source: sputniknews.com
X22Report website (http://x22report.com/did-you-feel-the-shift-with-china-russia-the-us-episode-1324/)
N. Korea seriously growing economically - ?
Here is an interesting post talking about what's happening 'over there'...
Posted on May 13, 2017 by Dr. Eowyn
Below are night-time views of North and South Korea, showing the south ablaze with lights, while the north is in darkness.
Here’s a shot taken by an astronaut aboard the International Space Station in January 2014:
https://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2017/05/north-korea-nighttime-from-international-space-station-2014.jpg
See the big splash of light in South Korea?
That’s Seoul, the Republic of Korea’s capital.
Above Seoul is South Korea’s curvy borderline, and above that is the darkness that is North Korea, with one bright dot — the capital Pyongyang.
Above North Korea is northeast China, also lit up by lights.
{LIGHTS MEAN INDUSTRIAL BUSINESS, INDUSTRY and developed civilization (cities people with energy, communications), something N. Korea lacks as evidenced by satellite images..} ed.
2014 was no different than a nighttime satellite picture of the Korean peninsula taken in 2012:
https://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2017/05/2012-north-south-korea-night1.jpg
In 1953, when the armistice ending the Korean War was signed, North and South Korea had similar levels of economic development. (emphasis mine)
While South Korea has since nurtured high-tech industries and economic growth, North Korea has faced “chronic economic problems” under the repressive Kim dynasty.
A widespread famine in the 1990s, exacerbated by the Kim policy of “self reliance” and the closed economy that prevented food imports, killed between half a million and up to 3 million people, according to different estimates.
In 2017, with a gross domestic product estimated at $1.4 trillion by the International Monetary Fund, South Korea is among the dozen most prosperous countries in the world.
In contrast, North Korea’s GDP is estimated at around $25 billion. The per-capita GDP of North Korea was $1,013 in 2015, lagging behind even undeveloped countries like Myanmar and Bangladesh.
Source: Live Science
ref from - https://fellowshipoftheminds.com/2017/05/13/night-views-of-north-korea/
turiya
6th July 2017, 04:25
Thanks, Bob
Well, I guess time will only tell...
Here's the Duran article, which uses the Financial Times article as a reference...
(need to subscribe)
THEDURAN
The truth about North Korea: it’s booming (http://theduran.com/truth-north-korea-booming/)
Alexander Mercouris (http://theduran.com/author/alexander/)
1 day ago
As North Korea tests another long range missile reports from North Korea confirm that far from being in crisis its economy is in the midst of a boom.
Both the US and Russia say that the Hwasong-14 missile which was launched today is of intermediate range (https://www.rt.com/news/395213-north-korea-missile-russian-defense/), and is not as North Korea claims an intercontinental ballistic missile (“ICBM”). It seems that whilst the missile can cover all of Alaska it does not have the range to reach the rest of the continental United States.
Though this is almost certainly true – and is in accord both with what Chinese and Russians specialists say about the North Korean ballistic missile programme – the fact that the very first test of such a powerful and sophisticated missile appears to have been completely successful highlights North Korea’s growing mastery of ballistic missile technology.
This is all the more impressive because rocket technology upon which ballistic missile technology is based is by general acknowledgement one of the most difficult and complex, requiring a highly capable chemical and materials industry, and very high standards of manufacturing and of quality control, to be made to work effectively.
This highlights a point I have made previously (http://theduran.com/china-proposal-us-talk-north-korea/): whatever else it is, North Korea is not and cannot be the economic basket case and technological backwater which is described in the Western media
North Korea’s success in pursuing a ballistic missile and nuclear weapons programme shows North Korea must have a significant industrial and technology base, which must encompass fields like advanced chemistry and nuclear physics. North Korea’s success in making its own smart phones and tablets and in developing its own apparently extensive intranet (the “Kwangmyong (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwangmyong_%28network%29)“) suggests it must have a reasonably sophisticated computer and IT industry it can draw upon. Pictures of Pyongyang, which appear from time to time in the Western media, show it to be a highly modern even futuristic city, a significant fact in itself even if Pyongyang is a show-case which is not representative of the whole country.
Nonetheless despite these obvious signs of industrial and technological strength and modernity there remains a widespread view that North Korea is a primitive basket-case of a country, with its people struggling in conditions barely above subsistence.
Frankly that doesn’t seem fully consistent with the known facts.
A recent article (https://www.ft.com/content/db738fb8-3ed2-11e7-82b6-896b95f30f58?mhq5j=e1) in of all places the Financial Times takes this point much further. It turns out that not only is North Korea far from being a basket case, but its economy is actually growing and at a blistering pace
At a time when the US is trying to squeeze the Kim regime through new sanctions — pressure that is likely to increase as a result of the death of US student Otto Warmbier who was jailed in North Korea — the economy is showing signs of vitality that could make it even harder to exert leverage on Pyongyang.
Any analysis of the North Korean economy has to proceed with some caution. Reliable economic data for the isolated nation are scarce and estimates vary wildly. Forecasts for 2015 growth in gross domestic product per capita ranged between -1 per cent by the Bank of Korea in Seoul to 9 per cent from the Hyundai Research Institute.
“The challenges of accurately computing North Korea’s GDP are many and are derived principally from a paucity of credible macroeconomic data,” says Kent Boydston, analyst at the Peterson Institute for International Economics. But for close watchers of the reclusive nation, the signs of change are clear. Notably, wages have surged, as has the growth of a moneyed class known as the donju. “The changes are obvious when you go to Pyongyang. There is vehicular traffic and the city has a skyline like never before,” says a former US intelligence official, pointing out the growing use of previously rare items like solar panels and air conditioners……..
The result, according to North Korea watchers such as Prof Lankov, is “a significant improvement in living standards” and economic vibrancy, most evident in the flourishing number of restaurants and markets. Known as jangmadang, these markets — both official and unofficial — have proliferated rapidly in recent years and are now increasingly the norm for purchasing consumer goods.
According to a survey of more than 1,000 defectors by the Korea Development Institute, a state-run think-tank in Seoul, more than 85 per cent of North Koreans now use these markets for food, compared with 6 per cent who rely on state rations.
Wages have also appeared to increase exponentially in recent years. According to the institute, salaries in the official state sector have increased more than 250 per cent in the past 10 years to about $85 (more than 75,000 North Korean won) a month, while wages in unofficial “side” jobs, such as private enterprises, have boomed more than 1,200 per cent. Lee Byung-ho, then head of South Korea’s intelligence service, estimated earlier this year that 40 per cent of North Korea’s population is now engaged in some type of private enterprise.
The Financial Times article highlights an important point about North Korea. The negative growth of -1% of per capita GDP claimed by the Bank of Korea in Seoul, which is so obviously at odds with the true facts, reflects the uniformly negative reporting of North Korea by South Korea’s media and institutions. Many of the worst stories which circulate about North Korea, including the regular tales of power struggles and purges within the North Korean government, of corruption by Kim Jong-un and his entourage, and of economic failure and deprivation across the whole country, originate in South Korea, which has an obvious interest in making these claims. They are nonetheless accepted far too uncritically in the West, where they are regularly reproduced as if they were axiomatically true.
If North Korea really is achieving per capita annual GDP growth rates of 9% as claimed by the Hyundai Research Institute, and if salaries really have grown 250-1,200% over the last 10 years, then North Korea has the fastest growing economy in the industrialised world, and its people are seeing the fastest growth in real incomes in the world.
That no doubt explains the growing self-confidence of the North Korean leadership and the genuine popularity (as opposed to personality cult) of Kim Jong-un, which even some Western observers are reluctantly admitting. (http://thediplomat.com/2015/09/how-popular-is-kim-jong-un/)
One of the great problems of the West is that it always seem to struggle to recognise or adjust to a change of reality in any particular given situation.
Just as the West imposed economic sanctions on Russia in 2014 in the completely mistaken belief that Russia’s economy is a house of cards – which is what it was in the 1990s – so the West still believes that North Korea is a basket case one step away from total collapse, as it also was in the 1990s.
The result in both cases is a fruitless search for sanctions in order to tip things over, and anger and bafflement when they fail to work.
In the case of North Korea, what the West believes is the ‘magic bullet’ – Chinese sanctions – will never happen on anything like the scale the West wants or which would make a significant difference. Given that this is so the thing to do is what the West has always and consistently refused to do and which the Chinese and the Russians are urging the West to do: open direct talks with Kim Jong-un. (https://www.rt.com/news/395244-north-korea-nuclear-us-drills-stop/)
In the meantime, whilst the West drags its heels about doing this, Kim Jong-un and North Korea continue to grow stronger, and the military balance in the north east Pacific continues to shift slowly but steadily in their favour.
SOURCE: THEDURAN (http://theduran.com/truth-north-korea-booming/)
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Here's an article from GlobalResearch...
https://store.globalresearch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/logo_store.png?w=240
Doom and Gloom or Economic Boom? The Myth of the “North Korean Economic Collapse” (http://www.globalresearch.ca/doom-and-gloom-or-economic-boom-the-myth-of-the-north-korean-economic-collapse/5380495)
By Henri Feron
Global Research, May 05, 2014
Its an intereting read. A large one. Will post part of it...
The DPRK is said to be an economist’s nightmare. There are almost no reliable statistics available, making any analysis speculative at best. The few useable figures that we have, though, fly in the face of the media’s curious insistence on a looming economic collapse.
Food production and trade volumes indicate that the DPRK has largely recovered from the economic catastrophe of the 1990s. Indeed, Pyongyang’s reported rising budget figures appear more plausible than Seoul’s pessimistic politicized estimates. Obviously, sanctions, while damaging, have failed to nail the country down. There are signs that it is now beginning to open up and prepare to exploit its substantial mineral wealth. Could we soon be witnessing the rise of Asia’s next economic tiger?
There is hardly an economy in the world that is as little understood as the economy of the Democractic People’s Republic of Korea (aka “North Korea”). Comprehensive government statistics have not been made public since the 1960s. Even if production figures were available, the non-convertibility of the domestic currency and the distortion of commodity prices in the DPRK’s planned economy would still prevent us from computing something as basic as a GDP or GDP growth figure1. In the end, this dearth of public or useable primary data means that outside analysis is generally based more on speculation or politicized conslusions than on actual information. Unfortunately, the greater the province of speculation, the greater also the possibility of distortion, and hence of misinformation, or even disinformation.
The dominant narrative in the Western press is that the DPRK is on the verge of collapse2. What commentators lack in hard data to prove this, they often try to invent. There is no way, it is suggested, that the economy could ever recover on its own from the combined economic, financial and energy crisis that hit it in the 1990s3. And indeed, though it remains difficult to quantify the damage done by the collapse of the Soviet Union, we know that the DPRK was then suddenly confronted with the loss of important export markets and a crippling reduction of fuel and gas imports. These two factors triggered a cataclysmic chain reaction that severely dislocated the Korean economy.
Perhaps the most dramatic aspect of the disaster was the collapse of food production. The sudden shortages of fuel, fertilizer and machinery, compounded by “a series of severe natural disasters” from 1995 to 19974, made the DPRK tumble from a self-reported food surplus in the 1980s to a severe food crisis in the 1990s....
A barrage of sanctions also seriously disrupted and continues to disrupt the DPRK’s ability to conduct international trade, making it even more difficult for the country to get back on its feet....
Financial sanctions curtail access to the global financial system by targeting entities or individuals engaging in certain prohibited transactions with or for the DPRK...
Given the formidable obstacles, the international press has drawn the conclusion (1) that the DPRK is one of the poorest countries in the world18. But it has also concluded (2) that its misery is almost entirely the result of systematic mismanagement19, and (3) that it will go from bad to worse as long as it refuses to implement liberal reforms20. Yet, these assertions, which have been repeated throughout the period of six decades of sanctions, are rarely supported by hard data. On the contrary, they run counter to the little reliable evidence available.
The “Black Hole”
If statistics on the DPRK economy are mentioned at all in the Western press, they generally stem from “secondary source” estimations rather than “primary source” figures from the DPRK government. The most commonly used of those estimates are those of the South Korean Bank of Korea (BOK) and of the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)21. Yet there are a number of reasons why these numbers in fact are nearly unuseable as evidence for the above three claims.
First, the numbers are equivocal. CIA numbers do present the DPRK as comparatively poor in terms of PPP-based GDP per capita. The $1800 figure from 2011 would place it 197th of 229 countries in the world, located among mostly African economies22. But as far as the CIA’s general GDP figure goes, the $40 billion figure catapults the economy into a comfortable middle position (106thof 229)23, which is not really what one would expect from “one of the poorest countries in the world.” Moreover, neither BOK nor CIA figures demonstrate that the DPRK economy is going “from bad to worse.”The CIA’s PPP figure has simply remained stuck at $40 billion for the past ten years. And according to BOK estimates, the DPRK’s GDP has been growing at an average of roughly 1% per year in the ten years from 2003 to 201224. These figures alone cannot prove recession, they would have to be combined with evidence of high inflation rates. This, again, is easier said than done, in the absence of access to something like a yearly and holistic consumer price index (CPI) figure.
Second, these numbers are rarely comparable with figures for other countries, for methodological reasons. Both institutions admit this, and yet many commentators seem to ignore it when they use them. The BOK’S GDP estimates, for instance, are unsuitable for international comparison with any economy except the South Korean one, because they were estimated on the basis of South Korean prices, exchange rates and value added ratios26. Meanwhile, CIA estimates are unsuitable for historical comparison, because the methodology it used changed over time27. Particularly striking is the sudden and unexplained “jump” from a $22.3 billion GDP figure in 2003 to a $40 billion one in 200428.
Third, these numbers are actually little more than wild guesses. Both institutions admit that they have far too little data to work with to provide reliable estimates. BOK officials, for instance, have conceded that the paucity and unreliability of price and exchange rate data for North Korea mean that an estimated GDP figure will “by nature be highly subjective, arbitrary and prone to errors.”29 The CIA, for its part, rounds PPP-based GDP figures for the DPRK to “the nearest $10 billion,” telling volumes about the confidence with which it makes its estimates30.
Four, these numbers cannot accurately reflect fundamental differences between market-driven and socialist economies. How meaningful or useful are the GDP per capita figures of the CIA and the BOK in measuring quality of life in a taxfree country with public food distribution as well as free housing, healthcare and education? What do prices or income really mean in such a system anyway? The use of GDP figures is notoriously controversial when it comes to judging the well-being or economic development of a people, and this is even truer in the case of socialist economies31.
Finally, there are good reasons to think that the numbers have been politically manipulated.According to Marcus Noland, executive vice-president and director of studies at the Peterson Institute for International Economics:
[The BOK’s GDP estimation] process is not particularly transparent and appears vulnerable to politicization. In 2000, the central bank delayed the announcement of the estimate until one week before the historic summit between South Korean President Kim Dae-jung and North Korean leader Kim Jong Il. The figures implied an extraordinary acceleration of North Korea’s growth rate to nearly 7 percent. This had never occurred before and has not been repeated since. Under current South Korean President Lee Myung-bak, a conservative, the central bank’s figures imply that the North Korean economy has barely grown at all32.As for the CIA numbers, suffice to say that they create a completely artificial impression of stagnation by systematically rounding the GDP figure to the nearest $10 billion.33
That is as far as I can get... more at this link (http://www.globalresearch.ca/doom-and-gloom-or-economic-boom-the-myth-of-the-north-korean-economic-collapse/5380495)
If 'government' employees/military are getting more "salary" then the rest of the people that certainly is lopsided and certainly not an indicator of how the "country" is doing economically. One military industrial focus group, in Pyongyang designed to bolster a totalitarian dictatorship's aims for regional conquest at least to me doesn't seem like a "country" and it's citizens are benefiting.
Here is some data about another 'reality' about what is happening within North Korea as far as 'economy'. Heritage foundation link
(http://www.heritage.org/index/country/northkorea)
North Korea remains an unreformed and closed state as Kim Jong-un maintains a despotic regime that resists economic reform. The government has experimented with a few market reforms but mainly administers a system of centralized planning and state control of the economy. The impoverished population is heavily dependent on food rations and government housing subsidies.
North Korea may be attempting modest economic opening by encouraging limited foreign direct investment, but the dominant influence of the military establishment makes any meaningful near-term change unlikely. Normal foreign trade is minimal, with China and South Korea being the country’s most important trading partners. No courts are independent of political interference.
In May 2016, North Korea convened the first Korea Workers’ Party Congress in 36 years and only the seventh in North Korean history, generating speculation about possible sweeping policy changes, but the congress merely affirmed North Korea’s dogged pursuit of nuclear weapons and continuance of socialist policies.
Kim Jong-un has warned that opening the country would expose it to the contagion of foreign influences. In 2016, North Korea conducted more nuclear and long-range missile tests in defiance of U.N. resolutions, earning widespread condemnation. The regime continues to threaten nuclear attacks on the United States and its allies and is augmenting its nuclear and missile-delivery capabilities.
Almost all property belongs to the state. Government control extends even to chattel property (domestically produced goods and all imports and exports).
A functioning, modern, and independent judiciary does not exist. Bribery is pervasive, and corruption is endemic at every level of the state and economy.
The ruling Workers’ Party, the Korean People’s Army, and members of the cabinet run companies that compete to earn foreign exchange.
GOVERNMENT SIZE
No effective tax system is in place. The government commands almost every part of the economy.
The government sets production levels for most products, and state-owned industries account for nearly all GDP. The state directs all significant economic activity.
Disproportionately high military spending further drains scarce resources. Despite an attempted state crackdown, black markets have grown.
The state continues to regulate the economy heavily through central planning and control.
Entrepreneurial activity remains virtually impossible.
As the main source of employment, the state determines wages. Factory managers have had limited autonomy to offer incentives to workers.
North Korea receives extensive food and energy subsidies from China.
Its monetary regime is completely controlled, leading to a total distortion of prices.
Trade and investment flows are impeded by the North Korean government and by actions that have resulted in multilateral economic sanctions.
There is virtually no functioning financial sector.
Access to financing is very limited and constrained by the repressive economic system.
The government provides most funding for industries and takes a percentage from enterprises.
Reading that to me, the other article saying N. Korea is an advanced 'leader' (paraphrased), seems ludicrous and well within misleading "fake news", and not a reflection of reality. Just saying how it looks to me and having had personal discussion with friends who have lived in Seoul for years and years, the evaluation above is very accurate.
Want to work in North Korea? What are the best paying Jobs?
I suppose one should take a look at the concept of what "forced labor" means - https://www.hrw.org/news/2012/06/13/north-korea-economic-system-built-forced-labor
Let's start here about "getting a job" in North Korea..
(New York) – The North Korean government continues to require forced, uncompensated labor from workers, including even schoolchildren and university students, Human Rights Watch said today. In recent interviews with Human Rights Watch, North Korean defectors say they have faced years of work for either no wages or symbolic compensation and either had to pay bribes or face severe punishments if they did not report for work at assigned workplaces.
Defectors reported to Human Rights Watch that they were required to work at an assigned workplace after completing school. The effective collapse of much of the North Korean economy means that many of these jobs are either unpaid or provide minimal substitute compensation in the form of food or other rations. Failure to report to an assigned job for those who try to earn money in other ways can result in being sent to a forced labor camp for six months to as long as two years.
“The harsh reality faced by North Korean workers and students is unpaid forced labor and exploitation,” said Phil Robertson, deputy Asia director at Human Rights Watch. “Those who refuse face being sent to forced labor camps where they must do hard labor, face physical abuse from guards, and are treated as less than human.”
Human Rights Watch interviewed approximately 65 defectors in South Korea and Thailand over the past six months. One female North Korean defector who left North Korea in December 2009 told Human Rights Watch that “anyone who quits his job … is legally punished for the reason of being unemployed …” and will be “taken to the forced labor camp for between three to six months. Anyone who doesn’t work is assumed to be a criminal in North Korea.” Another male who escaped from North Korea in March 2011 said that “… if you are placed somewhere [to work], you must go there without question” and “it is impossible to refuse working because you didn’t like it, it’s compulsory without a doubt.”
Another defector told Human Rights Watch “After I finished school, the authorities forced me to work at the government mine but it’s far away from my home. I had to take care of my sick father because my mother had died … so I had to bribe the authorities so they would put me in the ceramics factory nearby … then I was forced to labor at the ceramics factory …”
Failing to report to work can result in physical punishment at the hands of work-place managers. A defector told Human Rights Watch “The factory manager would summon me and beat me and curse at me because I didn’t go to work. Many people saw me getting beaten…. I told them I didn’t come to work because I didn’t have anything to eat…The more I talked, the angrier they got, and they kicked and beat me…It was not just me, it would happen to other people as well. If a person did not come to work, the authorities would go to their home to find them. They would beat them severely and curse at them, saying ‘Why didn’t you come to work?’”
North Korean defectors said that a lack of pay for work means economic survival for them and their families depends on their ability to do their own informal business. For this, bribes must be paid to local officials and to the enterprise manager to release a person from his or her daily work requirement for time to start their own business, such as home production, informal selling of goods at local markets, or itinerant trading between provinces or even across the border into China. One female defector told Human Rights Watch, “There were no rations so I presented some money to the company [where she worked] and started a business. Unemployed persons are supposed to go to the forced labor camp…so I constantly paid a certain amount of money to the company while I secretly ran a business…”
“North Korean government officials force people to work for free and don’t give them enough to eat, and then extort them when people try to organize other ways to survive” said Robertson. “This is truly a predatory regime, with an economic system built on exploitation and abuse.”
Article 31 of North Korea’s constitution clearly prohibits child labor while also setting the minimum age for children to work at 16. Yet parents told Human Rights Watch that children in secondary school studied in the morning but were regularly sent for unpaid school-organized work details in the afternoon. A former teacher who fled North Korea in 2011 told Human Rights Watch that, “I saw one teacher who would teach in the morning only and bring the students who were 11 or 12 years old to do outside work…in the afternoon. The kinds of work students did were planting, repairing roads, participating in the construction of a swimming pool…students would have lectures until 1 p.m. and then they suffered from [these] kinds of heavy labor….”
Another former student told Human Rights Watch “When I was between 11 and 15 years old I had to work on the government farm almost every day… We finished class at 1 p.m. and had to rush back home to eat lunch because the school didn’t provide food for the students. The school would announce that we’d have to meet back at the school field and bring our own farm tools. They forced everyone, even the small children, to work. In the morning the teacher would instruct the students what jobs they must do during the day and what tools they needed. I felt bad because this didn’t benefit our family and I had many responsibilities to do for my family but the government forced me to work for them. I was always very exhausted as a child.”
Research in 2009 by the Citizen’s Alliance for North Korean Human Rights found that teachers and school administrators forced students to work in a variety of situations, including gathering foodstuffs for re-sale from mountainous areas, cutting down trees for use by the schools, collecting valuable raw materials according to a quota and submitting them for recycling as an alleged part of a government campaign, and working in agriculture on state-run farms. Students start working during middle-school years, when they are 11 years old, though in poorer provinces in the north, students are expected to be working as early as age 8 or 9.
These reports are consistent with the findings of the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child, which in 2009 stated that North Korean children “allegedly engage, as part of their schooling, in work which by far exceeds vocational education goals and is physically highly demanding.”
“While the North Korean government puts on grand shows of children dancing and performing in synchronized pageants for the world to see, the daily reality for many children is grinding, forced labor made worse by a lack of necessary food,” said Robertson.
The accounts of pervasive forced labor, and punishments for failure to comply with it, are corroborated by a 2009 study by the Korean Institution for National Unification (KINU). Based on refugee reports, KINU found that North Korean authorities operate a network of jip-kyul-so (collection center) and ro-dong-dan-ryeon-dae (labor training centers) camps that hold people for a variety of so-called crimes, including absence from scheduled work or training, travel without permission, overstaying a travel permission, including cross-border travel to China where authorities are convinced the person was not attempting to go to South Korea, and other crimes.
Human Rights Watch called for North Korea to join the International Labor Organization (ILO), which would commit the government to follow the ILO Declaration on Fundamental Principles and Rights at Work, which commits member states to eradicate forced labor, child labor, and respect the right to freedom of association and the right to collective bargaining. North Korea is one of few countries worldwide that are not members of the ILO and therefore do not comply with internationally recognized ILO standards.
“North Korea should end its holdout and join the International Labor Organization as a first clear step to eradicating forced labor,” said Robertson. “Adopting international standards will also steer the way to end child labor and ensure that childhood is a time for nurturing and learning – instead of toil and abuse.” ref: https://www.hrw.org/news/2012/06/13/north-korea-economic-system-built-forced-labor
So if one can actually 'get a job' in North Korea, what can one expect in salary and benefits?
'Best Jobs In North Korea' Pay $62 A Month; Now They're Diplomatic Pawns - ref: http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2013/04/03/176121772/best-jobs-in-north-korea-pay-62-a-month-now-theyre-diplomatic-pawns
At an industrial park where they build appliances and other products for companies from South Korea, 55,000 North Koreans typically earn about $62 each a month, a North Korea expert tells NPR.
And they've got some of the best jobs in one of the world's poorest nations, Aidan Foster-Carter from Leeds University said on All Things Considered this week. Per capita income in the North is estimated to be as little as $1,000 a year. Not only is the pay at the Kaesong Industrial Complex better than elsewhere (other estimates put it as high as $100 a month), but the workers are "reasonably well-looked after," Foster-Carter said.
Now those jobs and what's done at the Kaesong complex are in the international spotlight. On Wednesday, North Korean authorities blocked trucks and workers coming from the South to the complex about six miles inside North Korea.
As NPR's Louisa Lim told Morning Edition, North Korea's regime is skilled at "this sort of cycle of threats" — particularly at times, such as now, when the U.S. and South Korea are holding joint military exercises.
So, along with threats to fire missiles as the South and the U.S., leader Kim Jong Un and his generals have also shown their displeasure by cutting one of the last ties between North and South — the access given to companies from the South to workers at the Kaesong complex.
Experts hope the move is just the latest in decades of rhetoric from the North and that South Korean companies will have access to Kaesong again soon.
Meanwhile, here's more about the complex:
— The project was launched in 2003 in the hope it would both provide much-needed income for those in the North and build better relations with the South. Work began there the next year, according to Foster-Carter. Now, reports the BBC, there are 123 companies from the South with operations in the complex.
— Along with small appliances, the companies with operations in the complex make clothing, textiles, car parts and semiconductors.
About $470 million worth of goods were produced there last year, the BBC says.
— Everything made there is exported to the South.
And the employees make 62$ a month, and who get's the rest? In the previous post, it was emphasized by Heritage Institute's study on how North Korea 'works', those in power control it all, and it never comes down to the one's making it, doing the work, the toil.. Lopsided, most certainly.. Have they exploited people more so? More slave labor? Is that how the 'economy' is growing? Just asking..
If Us gov. did not meddle with the internal affairs, N korea would not be threatening america. If the US gov. did not send its armada to striking distance, N korea would not be threatening america. Its a fact that US gov. meddle with other countries affair for control. And now some people wants to convince the rest of us that N korea is the bad guy and US is the good guy. China and Russia are also bad guys because, "if they are not with us they are against us" Makes me think that there is more to this than just ignorance.
WhiteFeather
6th July 2017, 12:10
Call me crazy. I do not believe the hype of N Koreas ICBM missiles etc. Nor do I believe anything I hear on the lame stream news. But I do believe they are trying so dam hard in changing the N Korean banking system to a world bank run by the assclowns as we know them by The Rothschild World Banking System. Follow the money, not the so called Missiles, if actually there are any. I smell bullshyte.
turiya
6th July 2017, 13:34
Painting the picture that Kim Jong-un is a raving lunatic who is starving his population to death - its part of the Deep State playbook. Its a plan that's been used several times previously - Saddam Husein, Muammar Gaddafi, Bashar al Assad... World Bank / IMF Sanctions, Arab Spring, pass a U.N. resolution, NATO, Humanitarian Aid - Send in the Troops for Regime Change & to guard the poppy fields... send in the experts to set up a new infrastructure to mine and transport the bounty from newly captured resources... not to overlook where the gold is stashed.... Its getting pretty boring... [yawn icon]
:yawn:
Dictators don't have to be painted as "raving lunatics" - all they need is a population to enslave.. a way to propagandize their "right" to enslave, a military to threaten the rest of the world if anyone questions their motives.. Take their model, "China" who looks at their "pups" around the world to see 'it' grow.. and try to emulate it's pack leader..
JOSH GELERNTER (http://www.nationalreview.com/author/1139535) December 13, 2014 4:00 AM What that “Made in China” label really means.
This isn’t NRO’s dedicated China spot, but I’ve got one last CCP piece to write before moving back to more cheerful subjects. There was big news last week: that China had overtaken the U.S. as the world’s largest economy; the People’s Republic is on track to produce $17.6 trillion of goods and services this year, $200 billion ahead of the U.S.
A lot of acrimony has been heaped on Mr. Obama’s economics, which seem to have sludged our growth to a crawl.
And a lot of credit has been laid at the feet of Communist China’s march toward capitalism.
But there’s an element missing from the discussion. An economy is bound to grow when it’s got one billion, three hundred and fifty-seven million people available for slave labor. A hundred and fifty years ago, the United States finally stamped out its scourge of slavery.
Most of the civilized world either had beaten us to the punch or would follow soon after.
China has officially abolished slavery several times — in the 14th century, in the 18th, and again in the 20th. But it never really took: China’s Communist dictators operate more than a thousand 1,000 slave-labor camps.
The camps are called “laogai,” a contraction of “láodòng gǎizào,” which means “reform through labor.”
They were conceived under Mao; unlike Stalin’s gulags, they never closed — though the CCP has tried to abolish the name “laogai.”
In the Nineties, it redesignated the camps “prisons.”
The conditions, though, don’t seem to have changed.
Our picture of life in the laogai is murky, but here’s what has been reported: The prisoners are given uniforms and shoes. They have to purchase their own socks, underwear, and jackets. There are no showers, no baths, and no beds.
Prisoners sleep on the floor, in spaces less than a foot wide.
They work 15-hour days, followed by two hours of evening indoctrination; at night they’re not allowed to move from their sleeping-spots till 5:30 rolls around, when they’re woken for another day of hard labor. Fleas, bedbugs, and parasites are ubiquitous.
The prisoners starve on meager supplies of bread, gruel, and vegetable soup. Once every two weeks they get a meal of pork broth.
The camps currently billet between 3 and 5 million convicts — real criminals along with thought criminals guilty of opposing Communism, promoting freedom, or practicing religion — though the process doesn’t wait on conviction; Chinese law permits the police to hold anyone for four years before judicial proceedings.
At any given time — according to the Laogai Research Foundation — 500,000 Chinese citizens are in “arbitrary detention.” If a prisoner does get a hearing, he enters a legal system controlled, capriciously, by the Communist Party.
The laogai camps are estimated to have held between 40 and 50 million prisoners since they opened in 1949.
Which is about the population of South Korea. Between 15 and 20 million of those prisoners died or were killed. Which is two or three times the population of Hong Kong.
Or to put it another way: Between 50 and 300 thousand people were murdered during Japan’s rape of Nanking. China’s Communist Party has inflicted between 50 and 400 Nanking massacres on the country it dominates.
According to an article published in Human Events by a man named Michael Chapman, a large proportion of Chinese exports originate in the camps — a quarter of China’s tea, tens of thousands of tons of grain; “ . . .
Prisoners mine asbestos and other toxic chemicals with no protective gear, work with batteries and battery acid with no protection for their hands, tan hides while standing naked in vats filled three feet deep with chemicals used for the softening of animal skins, and work in improperly run mining facilities where explosions and other accidents are a common occurrence.”
And that work finds its way into American and European stores.
A quick Internet search will yield photos of notes slipped into Chinese products on sale everywhere from Kmart to Saks.
Notes begging for help, signed by Chinese slaves.
One that turned up in Northern Ireland says, “We work 15 hours every day and eat food that wouldn’t even be fed to pigs and dogs.” It was written in Chinese; one that turned up in Oregon was written in English.
“People who work here have to work 15 hours a day without Saturday, Sunday break and any holidays.
Otherwise, they will suffer torturement. . . .
Many of them are Falun Gong practitioners, who are totally innocent people only because they have different believe to CCPG.
They often suffer more punishment than others.” The CCPG is the Chinese Communist Party Government; the writer of that note identifies himself as a worker in the Masanjia labor camp.
Former Masanjia inmates have been interviewed by the New York Times. They described “frequent beating, days of sleep deprivation, and prisoners chained up in painful positions for weeks on end.”
One told the Times, “Sometime the guards would drag me around by my hair or apply electric batons to my skin for so long the smell of burning flesh would fill the room.”
Another said, “I still can’t forget the pleas and howling.” About half of Masanjia’s inmates are in for refusing to renounce their religion — mostly followers of Falun Gong and Christians.
Another note from China turned up in Brazil. It was written in English and just four words long: “I slave. Help me.” And remember: The camps’ prisoners are just the formal slaves.
In a more general sense, all of China’s one and a third billion people are slaves; without freedom of speech, of assembly, of religion, of movement, of the press, and without a government that derives its powers from the consent of the governed.
So, China’s got a leg up in the economy-building race.
The same one that Germany had at its camps.
So this Christmas season, look out for that “Made in Nazi Germany” sticker.
Or maybe this will bring it home: This Christmas, remember that “Made in China” may mean “Made by Chinese Christians.” Happy holidays.
— Josh Gelernter writes weekly for NRO and is a regular contributor to The Weekly Standard.
- hearing the bash the US drum won't make me believe China, and North Korea are the good guys.
Boring? Hardly.
ref: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/394565/chinas-slaves-josh-gelernter
The Philippines now has a president that really works for the good of the Filipino people. thus he opposed the global oppressors. In western media he is depicted as a murderous dictator who oppresses his people while in reality a big Majority of Filipinos love him.
Foxie Loxie
6th July 2017, 19:46
Thank you, Bubu, for your input! I had come to that conclusion & it seems "refreshing", to say the least!! :clapping:
Drawing a parallel between the new Philipine leader and North Korea is folley...
Drawing a parallel between the new Philippine leader and North Korea is folley...
Yes true but nevertheless they are doing the same thing to both. We have now a brewing Syria scenario in marawi city, where at least six arab looking people fighting with the rebels have been killed or captured. Our president repeatedly declared that ISIS now is in the country. And then of course as I have said they are painting both as evil. You see its not about that its about control and whoever have this agenda should never be trusted
turiya
7th July 2017, 01:42
Its also folly for Americans to say that America has delivered such profound wonder to the rest of the world... to have been such a great model of a country to follow in this world, and having done such great things to other innocent people in this world, let alone to its very own citizens in this world...
Yes, its folly to say that a small little dictator in the Middle East, Northern Africa, Central America or Asia, has done more harm to the citizens of this world than the United States government has done, with its collateral damage of drone strikes, depleted uranium ammunition, in its attempts to spread its cancerous ideological bull crap throughout the rest of this world, while claiming to deliver humanitarian aid for the sake of saving lives in this world... (humanitarian - now, that's a good one... ha! ha!)
Its only not a folly, I suppose, if one can't see the hypocrisy that comes with pointing a finger elsewhere.
The Most Honest Three Minutes
In Television History (https://youtu.be/XGa57az2VqY)
(Published on Feb 25, 2013)
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ML3qYHWRIZk/hqdefault.jpg
VIDEO (https://youtu.be/XGa57az2VqY)
Thank you, Bubu, for your input! I had come to that conclusion & it seems "refreshing", to say the least!! :clapping:
you are welcome
thunder24
7th July 2017, 03:05
Call me crazy. I do not believe the hype of N Koreas ICBM missiles etc. Nor do I believe anything I hear on the lame stream news. But I do believe they are trying so dam hard in changing the N Korean banking system to a world bank run by the assclowns as we know them by The Rothschild World Banking System. Follow the money, not the so called Missiles, if actually there are any. I smell bullshyte.
When you consider poppy bush was CIA. And you consider his son going to china for satellite contracts, and that china is "handling" north Korea, and that scuttle butt says Cia runs NoRtH Korea.... then you can see an even bigger picture of Deep State World Wide... muah ,muahhha, mauhahahahahhahahahahahahahaha....
then if you see the similarities in prince charles and H.w. and the queen you see they related, then you hit the reptillian shiiiiiieeeettttt..... then the archons... and realize thoth wasnt bull sheeeting when he said they came up from the deep and took the form of men...
. "Entered I my body.
Created the circles that know not angles,
created the form
that from my form was formed.
Made my body into a circle
and lost the pursuers in the circles of time.
But, even yet, when free from my body,
cautious ever must I be
not to move through angles,
else my soul may never be free" http://www.crystalinks.com/emerald8bw.html are these angles equivalent to degrees within certain secret societies... i.e. gadiatons robbers
david icke has it right, but he calls them the wrong thing...... again i say.. muah muahhha, muahahahahhahahaha kinninigan
upon further review, the bush's name is neil...and well do your own homework
Rocky_Shorz
7th July 2017, 05:13
Casting aside the viel of Propoganda Fake news, what is North Korea like?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRnV2P5T5VA
CIA Pharmaceutical Wing to fund a Nuclear program to destroy the US...
Seriously?
If Trump is going to lie about Syria's gas attack, can we believe anything that crosses his lips on North Korea?
I still say if you want to end this quick, have the President give Kim a gift.
Trump's Fatboy Cake of the Week Club!!!
Hand deliver heart stopping goodness weekly.
thunder24
7th July 2017, 05:34
CIA Pharmaceutical Wing to fund a Nuclear program to destroy the US...
Seriously?
If Trump is going to lie about Syria's gas attack, can we believe anything that crosses his lips on North Korea?
I still say if you want to end this quick, have the President give Kim a gift.
Trump's Fatboy Cake of the Week Club!!!
Hand deliver heart stopping goodness weekly.
i don't think nukes are made to destroy humans... do you?
Rocky_Shorz
7th July 2017, 05:47
Well the nukes didn't kill many on 9/11
If everyone would have taken Cheney's blue pill, no one would have been missed...
turiya
7th July 2017, 11:15
Solving the North Korea Situation
Guest Post
by Scott Adams (http://blog.dilbert.com/post/162632490866/solving-the-north-korea-situation)
I have some spare time this morning so I thought I would solve the North Korean nuclear threat problem.
The current frame on how all sides are approaching the problem is a win-lose setup. Either North Korea wins – and develops nukes that can reach the mainland USA – or the United States wins, and North Korea abandons its nuclear plans, loses face, loses leverage, and loses security. Our current framing of the situation doesn’t have a path to success.
So how do you fix that situation?
First we must acknowledge that a win-lose model has no chance of success in this specific case because North Korea responds to threats by working harder to build nukes. That’s no good. You need some form of a win-win setup to make any kind of deal. That’s what I’m about to suggest. And by winning, I mean both sides get what they need, even if it isn’t exactly what they said they want.
What the U.S. wants is a nuclear-free North Korea. That would be our win.
What North Korea wants is an ironclad national defense, prestige, prosperity, and maybe even reunification of the Koreas on their terms. So let me describe a way to get there.
The main principle to keep in mind is that you can almost always reach a deal when two parties want different things. If we frame the situation as North Korea wanting nuclear weapons, and the U.S. not wanting them to have those nukes, no deal can be reached. There is no way for North Korea to simultaneously have nukes while having no nukes.
So you need to reframe the situation. The following deal structure does that.
Proposed North Korean Peace Deal
China, Russia, and U.S. sign a military security agreement to protect
BOTH
North Korea and South Korea from attack
BY ANYONE
for 100 years, in return for North Korea suspending its ICBM and nuclear weapons programs and allowing inspectors to confirm they are sticking to the deal.
At the end of a hundred years, North Korea and South Korea agree to unify under one rule. No other details on how that happens will be in the agreement. North Korea will be free to tell its people that the Kim dynasty negotiated to be the rulers of the unified country in a hundred years. South Korea will be free to announce that unification is a goal with no details attached. We will all be dead in 100 years, so we can agree to anything today. (That’s the key to making this work – all players will be dead before the end of it.)
The U.S. withdraws military assets from South Korea.
South Korea and North Korea reduce their non-nuclear military assets that point at each other.
Over the course of the 100-year deal, there could be a number of confidence-building steps in the agreement. For example, in ten years you might have a robust tourist arrangement. In twenty years, perhaps you can do business across borders. In fifty years, perhaps a unified currency (by then digital).
A hundred years is plenty of time for the Kim family to make their fortunes and move to Switzerland, or wherever, before unification is an issue. The deal might require some sort of International amnesty agreement for any North Korean leaders looking to get out of the country before unification.
Under this proposed deal structure all sides get what they want. North Korea’s leader can tell his people that their nuclear program was a big success because it resulted in the United States withdrawing forces, and it led to an eventual Korean unification on his terms. There is no opposition press in North Korea to dispute that framing. This looks like total victory to North Korea. That’s a win.
For the United States, a credible deal to get rid of North Korean nukes is a win. China and Russia would look like the adults in the room. They win too.
South Korea wins too, obviously.
And this deal would probably result in Nobel Peace Prizes for the leaders of all countries involved.
Students of history will recall that Great Britain agreed to lease Hong Kong from China for 99 years to avoid any risk of China taking Hong Kong militarily. The long lease period allowed both countries to agree to a deal that could not have been reached for a shorter time period. And it gave everyone time to plan for the peaceful transfer. No two situations are alike, but you can see how a hundred-year deal makes it easy to agree to difficult things today. We’ll all be dead before any of it matters. And if you work toward a common goal for a hundred years, the odds are good that it can happen. One way or another.
This is the sort of deal that would have been impossible in prior years. But the Trump administration understands the structure of dealmaking. This solution is available for the taking.
Update: President Trump tweeted that trade between China and North Korea is up 40% in the first quarter. Look at how he frames it:
https://68.media.tumblr.com/e1612a402fdc57a556a3becd967c9524/tumblr_inline_osmm95O2sA1t63ajm_500.pngThis is what I have been describing as Trump’s go-to strategy of creating two ways to win and no way to lose. In this case, China either clamped down on North Korea (we win), or we can say we tried to get them to help and they refused.
That’s a free pass to do whatever we need to do, no matter how much China dislikes it. Hey, we tried it the other way. Clearly it didn’t work.
And it sets the table for all sides to get more serious about solving this non-militarily. Would you want President Trump to have a free pass to kill you?
My suggested deal structure is the only non-military option, as far as I can tell.
The Burning Platform (https://www.theburningplatform.com/2017/07/06/solving-the-north-korea-situation/#more-154123)
Baby Steps
7th July 2017, 11:48
The current global situation - where the US takes out whichever of the weak countries it chooses, with impunity- is the greatest driver of nuclear proliferation ever- because these countries see that the only way to survive is to arm.
China wants to retain a communist North Korea that it can control, in order to buffer possible attacks from the south. It also prevents the formation of a western oriented military colossus on it's border, as has happened in Europe when Germany re-unified.
The problem is that these communist command economies do not work for their people, especially they cannot organise agriculture. Command economies struggle to coexist with the information freedom that modern communications provide. For a threatened power establishment like Kim's, it's survival is provided to him by the narrative that there is a great threat from the South, that we need to arm against, we need a war footing, as our survival is threatened.
The USA kindly props up this narrative with it's annual drills, that sound insignificant when reported in the Western Media, but in reality amount to 'war moves' because a North Korean observer is always seeing preparation for attack, or attack moves, that stop at the brink. They are indistinguishable from the real thing. It must be very scary for them. These drills can be reduced or made to appear less threatening- but they are not.
By the same token, it should be emphasised that each time Japan sees a missile blip - it CANNOT KNOW whether this is a real attack, until the missile crashes. This really is intolerable for them, I would think. The Japanese are probably very keen to set up their own ICBM force, and US guarantees are preventing this - or so we are told.
I agree that the solution appears easy- but the Chinese would probably insist behind closed doors that NK is allowed to retain a tactical nuclear capability. Why not allow that?
Then provide guarantees against any moves toward unification, and hope that a dawning era of peace does not trigger a bloody implosion of the abominable NK regime - help them to pursue the Chinese model of economic development.
So yes, there is all to play for.
But that is not the problem.
the problem is the Western Deep state that WANTS catastrophe. That is where the work is needed.
turiya
7th July 2017, 22:18
X22Report Political News... North Korea news starts @8:44
The War Cry Is Getting Louder & Louder,
It's Time To Silence It - Episode 1325b (https://youtu.be/njO_arIv43g?t=8m44s)
(Published on Jul 6, 2017)
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/njO_arIv43g/hqdefault.jpg
VIDEO (https://youtu.be/njO_arIv43g?t=8m44s)
______________Relevant Articles______________
South Korea’s Moon Says Ready to Meet North’s Kim Under ‘Right Conditions’ (https://sputniknews.com/asia/201707061055287011-south-korea-dprk-meeting/)
South Korean President Moon Jae-in said Thursday he is ready to meet North Korean leader Kim Jong Un under the “right conditions.”
“When the right conditions are fostered and when there is a chance to reverse the current tension and situation of confrontation on the Korean Peninsula, I am ready to meet with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un at any time and any place,” Moon said.
Source: sputniknews.com
Rep. Tulsi Gabbard Statement on North Korea’s ICBM Test (https://www.antiwar.com/blog/2017/07/06/rep-tulsi-gabbard-statement-on-north-koreas-icbm-test/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+AWCBlog+%28Antiwar.com+Blog%29)
Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (https://gabbard.house.gov/) (D-HI) released the following statement after North Korea’s recent successful Intercontinental Ballistic Missile test:
==>U.S. leaders need to understand that Kim Jong Un maintains a tight grip on North Korea’s nuclear weapons as a deterrent against regime change. The Trump Administration would be far more credible in finding a diplomatic solution with North Korea if we weren’t currently waging a regime change war in Syria, and contemplating a regime change war in Iran.
==>“The North Korean regime witnessed the regime change wars the U.S. led in Libya and Iraq and what we’re now doing in Syria, and fear they will become like Gadhafi who, after giving up his nuclear weapons program, was deposed by the United States.
==>“As long as the U.S. is waging regime change wars, we are far less likely to reach a diplomatic solution in North Korea because they have no reason to believe our promises. In fact, we are far more likely to see nuclear proliferation by countries like North Korea who see nuclear weapons as their only deterrent against regime change.
==>“Serious diplomacy on the Korean Peninsula will require an end to our regime change war in Syria and a public statement that the U.S. will not engage in regime change wars and nation-building overseas, including in Iran and North Korea. We should focus our limited resources on rebuilding our own country and seriously commit ourselves to de-escalating this dangerous stand-off with North Korea and negotiate a peaceful diplomatic solution.”
Source: news.antiwar.com
US Claims of North Korean ‘Labor Camps’ in Russia Baseless (https://sputniknews.com/russia/201707061055278251-us-north-korea-russia-labor-camps/)
The State Department’s report published last week alleges that North Korea “operated labor camps on Russian soil and subjected thousands of North Korean workers to forced labor.”
“The allegations of so-called forced labor of North Korean citizens in so-called North Korean labor camps on Russian soil in the US report on the situation with human trafficking are groundless,” Zakharova told a weekly briefing.
She asserted “there is no doubt that such fabrications… are pursuing the sole purpose of using the human rights tool to exert unilateral pressure on North Korea, creating artificial obstacles to restricting cooperation.”
Source: sputniknews.com
Trump Plans “Pretty Severe Things” In Retaliation Against North Korea (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-07-06/trump-plans-pretty-severe-things-retaliation-against-north-korea)
“I have some pretty severe things we’re thinking about,” Trump said at a news conference in Warsaw. “Doesn’t mean we’re going to do them. I don’t draw red lines.”
Definition of severe
1a : strict in judgment, discipline, or government b: of a strict or stern bearing or manner : austere (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/austere)
2: rigorous in restraint, punishment, or requirement : stringent (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/stringent)
“I think we will just take a look at what happens over the coming weeks and months with respect to North Korea,[/B]” Mr. Trump added. “It’s a shame they’re behaving this way and they’re behaving in a very dangerous manner, and something will have to be done about it.”
Source: zerohedge.com
[B]Trump warns N. Korea to face repercussions after “very, very bad behavior” of missile launch (https://www.rt.com/news/395445-trump-north-korea-consequences/)
Russia and China leaders have agreed on a joint initiative on Tuesday suggesting that North Korea should suspend its ballistic missile program, while the US and South Korea should put off military exercises in a bid to cool the tensions. The initiative, is based on Chinese proposed ideas of a ‘double freezing’ [of missile and nuclear activities by the DPRK and large-scale joint exercises by the United States and the Republic of Korea] and ‘parallel advancement’ for the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula, as well as establishing a peace mechanism on the peninsula,”
Source: sott.net
Cidersomerset
8th July 2017, 14:41
Bill Clinton Paved The Way For A Nuclear North Korea
vcqRh_DCe8Y
Published on 8 Jul 2017
justntime2learn
8th July 2017, 15:37
Bill Clinton Paved The Way For A Nuclear North Korea
vcqRh_DCe8Y
Published on 8 Jul 2017
The vid has already been removed Cider and says video unavailable.
Looks like you may be on to something!
Cidersomerset
8th July 2017, 15:43
The vid has already been removed Cider.
Looks like you may be on to something!
Uhm.... the vid I posted was a five minute segment from this longer interview,
its the beginning part and sounds the same though in the deleted one there
was a visual article about Clinton , maybe they had to edit it ?
Secret To Why Globalists Hate Christianity Revealed/US General: We Are Prepared To Strike N. Korea
oIVVPSL6MVg
Published on 7 Jul 2017
Alex Jones and Steve Quayle discuss why the globalist elite are determined to destroy and undermine Christians.
justntime2learn
8th July 2017, 16:24
The vid has already been removed Cider.
Looks like you may be on to something!
Uhm.... the vid I posted was a five minute segment from this longer interview,
its the beginning part and sounds the same though in the deleted one there
was a visual article about Clinton , maybe they had to edit it ?
Secret To Why Globalists Hate Christianity Revealed/US General: We Are Prepared To Strike N. Korea
oIVVPSL6MVg
Published on 7 Jul 2017
Alex Jones and Steve Quayle discuss why the globalist elite are determined to destroy and undermine Christians.
Thank you Cider :) Just finished the entire video and found it very informing and solidifying.
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