Cult vs religion

[bbow73]

I listen to UFO podcasts all day and there seems to be a lot of popular hosts and guests with impressive credentials that don't know the difference between a cult and a religion.
Here's the nut shell difference: MEMBERSHIP STATUS (or the social context of belief)

a cult is a group you are in, a religion is an ideology you believe

Here's the expository:
A cult is based on control and unquestioning loyalty to a central leader and community. The leader and community comes before family, career, bucket list... everything.

A religion might be based on control and unquestioning loyalty to a central leader and community BUT you don't have to associate with the leader or community. You may hold a Catholic or Hebrew or Muslim or Hindu belief and never go to a church, synagogue, mosque, temple or shrine or fire station or whatever.
With a religion you have autonomy, you might be a bad catholic or muslim and just never do any of the rites or traditions but you can still identify with the belief system.

You might subscribe to a cult belief but if you are not a member of a cult then you are not IN a cult. Just to clarify that, an autonomous individual (someone not a member of a cult) that believes something that cult believes is not a cult.

There are all kinds of cults and it can be confusing when a 'religious cult' is the only cult model you have seen or heard of.

And then some groups are 'cult-like' but not a cult. For example, forum moderators might weed out a type of person who's beliefs or behavior they don't don't agree with which might seem cult-like but its not a cult.

[Bill Ryan]

This is an excellent six-minute summary:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB-dJaCXAxA

[skyefire777]

I heard Bill say once on a video, that people engage in lazy thinking. I feel that Christianity or I should say some denominations and/or leaders have supplanted Father's intentions with the intention of their own interpretation of a particular scripture or teaching. It's not a cult per se, but it calls into question the idea of lazy thinking and how that leads down these cult or cultish roads whether that is religion, or UFOs or.... Jesus spoke in parables and stories that reached people where they were at, and on multiple levels. He seldon really told them what something meant, but injected "thinking" into the equation. There is a huge difference between what is corporate thinking and individual thinking and many Christians ( which, by the way, was meant as a derogatory handle historically) would rather enter into corporate lazy thinking than individual application and analysis. Generally, checking their brains at the door. I've seen it also as I am exposed to these new, "awakening" ideas, that we cannot just go along for the "Heaven's gate" comet ride.... but really do the thinking and analyzing. And if we do that, we position ourselves to be better informed and better listeners.

[bbow73]

fantastic video! Reminds me of Am-way and certain chapters of AA that went bad.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

I especially appreciate the distinction about the Jonestown murders. It really upsets me when I hear it referenced as mass voluntary suicides.

[bbow73]

I heard Bill say once on a video, that people engage in lazy thinking. I feel that Christianity or I should say some denominations and/or leaders have supplanted Father's intentions with the intention of their own interpretation of a particular scripture or teaching. It's not a cult per se, but it calls into question the idea of lazy thinking and how that leads down these cult or cultish roads whether that is religion, or UFOs or.... Jesus spoke in parables and stories that reached people where they were at, and on multiple levels. He seldon really told them what something meant, but injected "thinking" into the equation. There is a huge difference between what is corporate thinking and individual thinking and many Christians ( which, by the way, was meant as a derogatory handle historically) would rather enter into corporate lazy thinking than individual application and analysis. Generally, checking their brains at the door. I've seen it also as I am exposed to these new, "awakening" ideas, that we cannot just go along for the "Heaven's gate" comet ride.... but really do the thinking and analyzing. And if we do that, we position ourselves to be better informed and better listeners.

lately I've been feeling like mass media is a cult. when deep state issues come to the conversation I can't believe the resistance to just considering an alternate narrative... the pressure to conform or fear of thinking differently for the crowd... I feel like it wasn't this way in the 90s.

[Foxie Loxie]

Cult vs Religion....IS there a difference?? The experience of my lifetime has allowed me to consider this point. My adherence to the Belief System of what one would call "Christianity" led to great disaster in my own life. It is adherence to this System, not what one would call a cult, that has caused much distress in many people's lives, not just my own.

It doesn't matter which "splinter" of Christianity one adheres to, it all goes back to the Jesus Movement which was taken over by the Roman Gov't. & made into a System with which to control the masses. It has "worked" for centuries but I, myself, would not have even questioned the status quo except for the fact that I had to figure out WHY this System wasn't all it claimed to be. Thanks to Avalon I have been able to search out the answers I needed. So I guess my opinion is that, in the end, whether called a Religion or a Cult, the result is the same in our lives because the individual turns control of his or her life over to The Belief System OR the Cult Leader, whichever the case may be.

I wonder if 9/11 was a trigger point for many concerning mass media? From childhood each of us is "conditioned" & if we are never taught to think for ourselves, where IS the individual freedom? :idea:

[skyefire777]

Cult vs Religion....IS there a difference?? The experience of my lifetime has allowed me to consider this point. My adherence to the Belief System of what one would call "Christianity" led to great disaster in my own life. It is adherence to this System, not what one would call a cult, that has caused much distress in many people's lives, not just my own.

It doesn't matter which "splinter" of Christianity one adheres to, it all goes back to the Jesus Movement which was taken over by the Roman Gov't. & made into a System with which to control the masses. It has "worked" for centuries but I, myself, would not have even questioned the status quo except for the fact that I had to figure out WHY this System wasn't all it claimed to be. Thanks to Avalon I have been able to search out the answers I needed. So I guess my opinion is that, in the end, whether called a Religion or a Cult, the result is the same in our lives because the individual turns control of his or her life over to The Belief System OR the Cult Leader, whichever the case may be.

I wonder if 9/11 was a trigger point for many concerning mass media? From childhood each of us is "conditioned" & if we are never taught to think for ourselves, where IS the individual freedom? :idea:

Really good point as even as kids we were taught a particular way of problem solving and anything outside the box was frowned on or rejected. So yeah, where is the individual freedom of thought.

[bbow73]

the short answer is yes there is a difference, either read the original post or watch Bill's video link.

I'm sorry your experience was bad. I've also had bad experiences with many religious groups including one cult.

I'd like you to consider the possibility that your negative experience might be coloring your perception of all religious groups.
It does matter what splinter group you adhere to. Each religious community is it's own micro culture. Their system of belief will be intermingled with their own micro-cultural distinctions.
For example: one Baptist church believes in "substitutionary atonement" (Jesus died to pay for our sins) and another doesn't (God loves unconditionally and there is no literal Hell).

This is also why it doesn't matter if the Roman Empire took control of one Christian institution... there are hundreds of other institutions independent of Roman control.

I'm considering writing a piece about the fear of being open minded. My theory is that it's okay to consider an opposing paradigm based on the idea that if your original paradigm holds value and the new paradigm is inferior then you will return to the original paradigm... and be a more enlightened person for it

[sigma6]

"Man cannot live on bread (material reality) alone..." anymore than a computer can function without an operating system...
we need a 'program'... something that gives us a context, a way to connect with the world, preferably something about our origin, our purpose, an explanation of our relationship to the external reality we find ourselves in...
something that makes sense, explains who we are and why we're here...

Consciousness isn't an accident or "epi-phenomena", nor an "emergent property"... the new 'catch phrases' of a shallow and immature 'scientific enquiry'... still trying to distract and undermine the supremacy of the world of non-material... where consciousness originates from... our existence and very being (ability to contemplate reality, exercise logic, reason, etc..) was supposed to be the prima facie evidence of this... but we have tried in vain to scientifically 'disprove' our own reality for over a century ... the irony is asinine

As you ultimately pointed out, and by definition, religions and cults can have huge overlaps... and are very much the same thing quite often... the thing I think people are trying to grasp at is "universal principle" which I think starts with understanding the fundamental nature of reality starting with the quantum, and seeing how that principle is fractally reproduced at every stage of higher complexity... through to atoms, the periodic table, right up to the fundamental principles or right and wrong... there is order in the universe... to negate it or attack it is fundamentally evil, i.e. the good (truth/order/higher complexity) will overcome evil (falsehood/negation/destruction/

Just as the pyramid at the subatomic, quantum level still expresses itself at the physical level in the literal physical structure of a pyramid in our '3-d space' (itself a construct) right up to the planetary level via torsion physics, what Richard Hoagland talks about, the 19.4 degrees where 'the pyramid corners coincides with the earth's surface in Hawaii, etc... or Nassim Haramein's research on the Tetragrammaton, the original object of "worship" by the 'original Hebrews'... it's all fractal, meaning a continuous re-expression of the same principle... some call it "love" a very big word in this universe... and no wonder... '; D

To not understand this is to feel disconnected from reality, with no point of reference... existential crisis... a ship without a sail... and the mind hungers for truth...

On the other hand the implications of discovering this can be quite humbling, and many turn away from it... disillusioned... the 'ego' becomes disappointed, 'rebels' at the thought of finding out it is only a shadow of it's former 'self'...

[bbow73]

sigma6, you have the pedal to the metal and I'll do my best to keep up.

it seems like there are a few... things? truths? I don't know, that transcend generations and cultures that we all experience the same way. I don't know what you want to call it, security, attachment, love... and we all seem to have a shared experience when this is taken... a feeling of injustice, unfairness, insecurity... hurt.
I haven't really worked it all out in my head but it seems like there is a sort of existential fractal expressed through consciousness... ugh, I don't know if that makes any sense at all. I also perceive a sort of spiritual counter fractal (one that is also consistent across generations and cultures) that manifests as oppression, control... selfishness. This is what I think happens when a genuine spiritual community crosses into becoming a cult. Control is about the insecurity of the oppressor, it's a negative spectre.

I don't know, that's all I got. I've been introduced to some new lines of thought from... a teacher (I guess you would call her a spiritual guru) that uses a lot of psycho-social terminology that I'm already familiar with. Maybe I shouldn't have posted this, I'm still transitioning and haven't integrated everything I've taken in recently.