Ancient Russia (Megaliths, Caves, Sacred Sites etc)

[uzn]

The intention of this Thread is that we can put all things related to ancient Russia here and we dont have to start tons of Threads in the future.

Some of these megalitic sites are heavily eroded on the outside what made me think that some of them are not from the last cycle (juga) like Atlantis and Lemuria (Mu) but maybe two or three jugas old. In the Vedas it is said that we now live in the seventh juga. But thats just speculation from my side.

Somebody lost his marbles here ;)
This one is as big as all the other big stoneballs all around the world.
https://www.ancient-code.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Artificials-megaliths-6.jpg

Some more pictures and the Caves found near the Russian city Zayukovo in this Thread:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?99486-Strange-manufactured-Caves-found-near-Russian-city-Zayukovo

in the Vottovaara Mountain
https://www.ancient-code.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Vottovaara_mountain25.jpg

shattered building blocks?
https://www.ancient-code.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Artificials-megaliths-2.jpg

https://www.ancient-code.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Artificials-megaliths-4-1.jpg

https://www.ancient-code.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Artificials-megaliths-5.jpg

[uzn]

Ancient cavehousing on the Crimean Peninsula near the Mangup Fortress. Sometimes called Feodoro or Theodoro. But most call it Eski Kermen [Эски-Кермен]. That translates to "Old Fortress".
Wikipedia says its from the 14th century, but hey thats Wikipedia for you. We all know that Wikipedia is the smalest common nominator between the one eyed people.

Since there are cavepaintings in there my guess would be that these housecaves are at least 30.000-40.000 years old. Maybe much much older and the stoneage guys just found and used them.

Take a look at that, they hollowed the whole mountain !
http://newsinphoto.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/032011f9.jpg

http://newsinphoto.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/032011f8.jpg

These tracks look very familiar ;)
http://newsinphoto.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/032011f7.jpg

http://newsinphoto.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/032011f0.jpg

http://newsinphoto.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/032011ez.jpg

http://newsinphoto.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/032011es.jpg

http://newsinphoto.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/032011eu.jpg

[uzn]

http://newsinphoto.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/032011ev.jpg

http://newsinphoto.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/032011ex.jpg

http://newsinphoto.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/032011ey.jpg

http://newsinphoto.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/032011f1.jpg

http://newsinphoto.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/032011f2.jpg

http://newsinphoto.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/032011f3.jpg

http://newsinphoto.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/032011f4.jpg

http://newsinphoto.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/032011f5.jpg

http://newsinphoto.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/032011f6.jpg

[uzn]

with Cavepaintings ! That should give you a hint about the age of these cavehousings

http://newsinphoto.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/032011fB.jpg

http://newsinphoto.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/032011fC.jpg

This hollow Peak collapses at some point in time.
http://newsinphoto.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/032011fD.jpg

http://newsinphoto.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/032011fE.jpg

http://newsinphoto.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/032011fF.jpg

Thats the Roof / Window System
http://newsinphoto.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/032011fH.jpg

http://newsinphoto.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/032011fI.jpg

http://newsinphoto.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/032011fJ.jpg

http://newsinphoto.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/032011fK.jpg

[uzn]

http://newsinphoto.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/032011fL.jpg

more of these strange stonetracks. Very similar to the ones on Malta and in Turkey
http://newsinphoto.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/032011fM.jpg

http://newsinphoto.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/032011fN.jpg

http://restintauris.ru/images/dostop/i_eskikermen_4.jpg

http://restintauris.ru/images/dostop/i_mk_1.jpg

http://restintauris.ru/images/dostop/i_mk_3.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/9f/fe/32/9ffe322af6d0b0fdaa60984183328bbd.jpg

Thats the view from up there
http://newsinphoto.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/032011fO.jpg

[Justplain]

Hi Uzn, thanks for the great pics. Given the extent of errosion, and the size of the excavations, these sites could be millions of years old. Although the geological studies of this link are not limited to Russia, i believe its relevant to the cave dwellings of this ancient era.

Megalithic structures point to civilizations dating back over possibly millions of years:

http://earthbeforeflood.com/who_and_when_constructed_underwater_underground_terrestrial_megalithic_complex.html

Giant megaliths of the Ural Mountains:

aAFX_5fAEbc

Sylvie at the NewEarth youtube channel has an excellent analysis of an ancient quarry in Crimea whose leftovers show tech that was more advanced than current rock cutting tech:

0XhdckpIf6U

[Hervé]

Discovery of the Great Wall of Siberia, 1st millennium BC (http://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/discovered-great-wall-siberia-dating-1st-millennium-bc-008613)

Anna Liesowska Ancient Origins (http://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/discovered-great-wall-siberia-dating-1st-millennium-bc-008613)
Wed, 16 Aug 2017 01:56 UTC


https://www.sott.net/image/s20/415179/large/The_Great_Wall_of_Siberia.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s20/415179/full/The_Great_Wall_of_Siberia.jpg)

© Ancient-origins.net


Giant ramparts guarded Altai Mountains against attack from the north, says leading archaeologist Professor Andrey Borodovsky. The wall complex - now almost hidden to the naked eye - is believed to date from a long era that also saw such constructions as the Great Wall of China and Hadrian's Wall.

Concealed under thick layers of turf are huge stones put in place by ancient man, says the scientist. Six rows of a parallel wall system limited access to the Altai Mountain complex from the north via the valley of the Katun River. Their width is a substantial ten meters with an impressive height of up to eight meters.

It is not known who built the giant ramparts. 'To the east of these walls is a fairly wide passage, which is limited at the mountainside by another series of walls, oriented west-east across the Katun valley,' he said.

There are nine walls adjacent to the mountain slope.

Professor Andrey Borodovsky said: 'These walls were clearly made to cut off crowds of people, and make them go through a narrow passage in the direction chosen by the creators of the (construction).'

In this way access from the steppes to the mountains - the home of ancient civilizations, for example of the Pazyryk people - could be controlled.

Some of the walls were destroyed by the construction of the Chuya highway in tsarist times, modernized by Stalin using prisoner labor. [...]

Prof Borodovsky insists geophysical analysis using scans shows the structures here were manmade not natural. He has announced plans to conduct detailed research here next year, which - while not long in total length, with more than 1 kilometer identified - are high in historical significance.

So far archaeological evidence of man from the areas around the walls points to a medieval presence yet the researcher from the Institute of Archaeology and Ethnography in Novosibirsk is convinced proof will be found of their construction much earlier.

'Geophysics has clearly confirmed that the Souzga walls were artificially created,' he told The Siberian Times.

For more of this article, go here (http://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/discovered-great-wall-siberia-dating-1st-millennium-bc-008613).

===================================================

Thanks for the thread uzn :happythumbsup:

[CurEus]

I admire Sylie she is all over Europe filing, researching and investigating!! Good for her!

[uzn]

Dolmens of Russia

Lets take a look at the megalithic Dolmens of Russia. They are found all over the place and are said to be at least 25.000 years old. Some official reserches say they are just 4.000 years old.

Phsada Village, Russia
http://www.megalithic.co.uk/a558/a312/gallery/Eastern_Europe/Phsada_Village_6_4632.jpg

The openings are so small that a human can get in there but nothing bigger. Nowadays we use a similar technique for birds with Birdhouses. They protect the birds from bigger predators like cats and birds of prey.
http://www.ana-white.com/sites/default/files/3154824734_1364840461.jpg

The question is what where these guys protecting themselves from. And how could they build These massive Houses.

Krasnodar krai. Russia
http://c8.alamy.com/comp/H9766N/dolmen-krasnodar-krai-russia-H9766N.jpg

Most of them are in the Caucasian Mountains, not far from Tzelentzchik, Touapse, Novorossiysk and Sochi. There are hundreds if not thousands of them.

http://worldtruth.tv/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/48.jpg

http://worldtruth.tv/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/10.jpg

http://worldtruth.tv/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/53.jpg

http://worldtruth.tv/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/110-1.jpg

http://worldtruth.tv/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/55.jpg

http://worldtruth.tv/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/49.jpg

[uzn]

some of the Locations of the Dolmens.
http://worldtruth.tv/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/map.1-e1450309028964.jpg

http://worldtruth.tv/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/RobertTriest02.jpg

Some Videos about them

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA6N6VwBfZQ


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOMj7LV4IBI


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StxXBqgKZ6s

http://worldtruth.tv/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Dolmen_Russia_Kavkaz_Jane_1.jpg

https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4078/4777162872_6cb1b9eee0_b.jpg

https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4099/4777162352_7ef676bd8e_b.jpg

http://www.megalithic.co.uk/a558/a312/gallery/Eastern_Europe/sinegorsk_dolmen_1.png

here is a link with a lot of Dolmen Pictures:
https://hiveminer.com/Tags/caucasus%2Cdolmen

[uzn]

I would call them Savehouses ;)

https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4142/4777161402_a4fa3f7270_b.jpg

http://ancientmistery.weebly.com/uploads/2/6/1/1/26113502/dolmen-russia-kavkaz-doguab-1_orig.jpg

http://i2.wp.com/todiscoverrussia.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Sochi-Megaliths.jpg

http://media.istockphoto.com/photos/dolmen-in-the-forest-near-gelendzhyk-russia-picture-id649909282

http://s1.travelask.ru/system/images/files/000/034/004/original/33_%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B0_%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%81.jpg?1486381201

https://previews.123rf.com/images/vvoennyy/vvoennyy1310/vvoennyy131000126/22652069-big-shapsugskiy-dolmen-monument-of-prehistoric-architecture-in-caucasus-mountains-Russia-Stock-Photo.jpg

https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/dolmen-zhane-river-valley-russia-single-chamber-megalithic-tomb-middle-bronze-age-x-%C3%A2%E2%82%AC%E2%80%9C-bc-x-near-village-79596489.jpg

https://previews.123rf.com/images/sochicat/sochicat1304/sochicat130400092/19315393-Ancient-dolmen-in-the-beech-forest-near-Sochi-Russia-Stock-Photo.jpg

[uzn]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-imyy0pkMZnI/Tq8gNxq4ISI/AAAAAAAACFE/Gqx7D-6Y7mI/s1600/Volkinsky+dolmen+near+Sochi%252C+Russia.jpeg

https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/dolmen-valley-trough-kuapse-river-sochi-russia-constructions-large-stones-dating-back-to-ii-millennium-bc-68853429.jpg

https://rememberingletters.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/russia-dolmens-sochi-np.jpg

That´s just a small selection of them, there are tons more.

[uzn]

another good Video about some megalithic blocks.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3g8yspm1NaE

remember these giant blocks are very eroded on the outside. This could well be an old giant fortress that collapsed over millions of years.

In the norse mythology the gods made a deal with the giants so that the giants build them their fortress.

[Sunny-side-up]

UZN your first 4 posts/collections of images, fascinating, quite amazing.

Looks like a massive layer of 'Poly-Filler', that was quickly carved out before it fully set hard.

Such mysteries on in and around this planet, so glad to be in a time where we get to see them!

[Morbid]

this is in russian but has very visual footage.

uhVCe0dkAVM

[uzn]

More ancient russian Caves in Ani. Ani lies in Armenia. Ani is also called the land of the thousand churches. Everywhere there are old churches in the middle of nowhere like these.

http://www.peopleofar.com/wp-content/uploads/armenian-church-ani.jpg

http://www.peopleofar.com/wp-content/uploads/the-history-of-ani-21.jpg

http://peopleofar.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/armenian-cave-monastery.jpg

But there are also some very old Caves there:

http://peopleofar.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/caves-of-ani.jpg

http://peopleofar.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/rows-of-pigeon-holes-of-a-dovecote-inside-a-rectangular-chamber-in-the-igadzor-valley.jpg

http://peopleofar.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/ancient-ani-cave-complex.jpg

http://peopleofar.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/ancient-cave-dwellings-of-ani.jpg

http://peopleofar.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/ancient-armenian-cave-dwellings-of-ani.jpg


here is a good site with some interior pictures of these caves:
http://virtualani.org/caves/index.htm

[uzn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVxMwkO94tk

some more cave complexes in Armenia:

http://peopleofar.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/caves-near-the-village-of-tech.jpg

http://peopleofar.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/armenien_06.jpg

http://peopleofar.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/amg02_032_armenien07_833_khndzoresk.jpg

[Foxie Loxie]

WOW! This has all been amazing!! Thanks to everyone! I am wondering if the dolmens could have been used to shield people from comet debris? The caves in the hillsides make one think of the Ajanta caves of India. :highfive:

[mojo]

Whatever cut the stones it was like cutting through butter. What of further research about the culture and created structures? Archaeologist should be going bananas over this. The post above by justplain shows how difficult to do the work. Heres the link again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XhdckpIf6U

[uzn]

This is the Tomb of Mithrades in Kirch (nowadays Crimea). Sometimes also called Royal Tomb of Kirch. The official dating is about 600 - 400 BC. I am not so sure if it has anything to do with a persian Mithracult (Suncult).
It is inside a Mound. By the way, it´s just speculation that this is a burrial mound.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/%D0%9A%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%BB%D0%BE_%D0%91%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B8._%D0%9C%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%B8% D0%BB%D0%B0_%D0%9C%D0%B8%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B0.jpg
click for bigger view:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/%D0%9A%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%BB%D0%BE_%D0%91%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B8._%D0%9C%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%B8% D0%BB%D0%B0_%D0%9C%D0%B8%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B0.jpg

The Arch is very interesting, same arches have been used in pre-egypt (the big Pyramid) and in mayan architecture
Great pyramid (Grand Gallery)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/11_red_corbel_1.jpg

Mayan Arch
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/12/d8/ba/12d8baf4325b025171b1f463bcc92a5d--mayan-ruins-ancient-ruins.jpg



more pictures of the place

http://www.crimea-zmeinka.com/images/Kerch/Kerch-Tsarskiy-kurgan6.jpg

http://ukrainetrek.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/kerch-ukraine-travel-photo-22.jpg

http://www.megalithic.co.uk/a558/a312/gallery/Eastern_Europe/Ukraine/crimeatranscauca01telf_0126.jpg

https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/06/9e/bd/9c/caption.jpg

http://www.megalithic.co.uk/a558/a312/gallery/Eastern_Europe/Ukraine/cambridgeancient03buryuoft_0117-crop1.jpg

http://c7.alamy.com/comp/D9R5RW/tsarsky-kurgan-royal-burial-mound-who-probably-is-buried-the-king-D9R5RW.jpg

[uzn]

The Roof

http://www.crimea-zmeinka.com/images/Kerch/Kerch-Tsarskiy-kurgan3.jpg

http://www.cornucopia.net/library/_made/library/guide/Zarskij_Kurgan_Royal_Kurgan_ph_Cornucopia_vert_900_1200.JPG

https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/07/f4/5f/b1/caption.jpg

https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/0d/75/3b/12/photo1jpg.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fc/%D0%A6%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%81%D1%8C%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%BA%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B3%D0%B0%D0%BD_007.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/Crimea_Kerch_Tsar%27s_barrow-12.jpg

[Jayke]

this Kerch tomb is important, it predates Mithradates, he just fled to Kerch after he lost his final battle to Rome, implying it was already built and he just moved into the area...the architectural style of this kurgan is similar to those found in Egypt and Peru. And since the pre-Sumerian culture Aratta is just north of Kerch, I'd guess it's part of the same pre-deluvian culture...

http://www.richardcassaro.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/Richard-Cassaro-Triptych-3.png

The stepped entrance doorway, third picture down looks similar to the Kerch doorway, possible connection?

[Jayke]

Another site with similar anti-deluvian architecture is the Belevi Mauseleum, to the East of Kerch, along the coast of the Black Sea. More architecture similar to that of Egypt and Peru.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ihd-zyh0Lw

[uzn]

There is another lost civilisation similiar to the babylonian one just a little above. Located at the Oxus and Uzboy river. For a lack of a better Name they been named the Oxus Culture.
Their civilisation stretched from Afganistan to Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan along the rivers.

http://greenash.net.au/media/cache/f8/a5/f8a541806a8af289ce8506de3ffd75b0.jpg

Googlemaps:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1zDFZw8vulwl-sGpYbtY95_KnIpU&ll=38.95673912477767%2C63.647232067187474&z=6

What really got my attention besides the big and ancient ruins was this Picture. This was taken by photographer Kenneth Garrett.
http://kennethgarrett.photoshelter.com (there you can download the pictures in ridiculus size)

All these following Pictures were excavated at the Gonor Depe site.

Look at the size of these figurines ! The grooves on the Horn are half the size of a groove of a Fingerprint. Just look at your fingertip and imagine the size. Amazing.

https://ssl.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I00005rVA_Dlr2jE/s/750/750/KLG7226r96f21.jpg
Mainstream archeologist will most likely say they did it with copparchissels ;)

Some more artefacts from the same site:
https://ssl.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000VaEKvrQitjc/s/750/750/KLG7226r3-f21.jpg

https://ssl.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000o_034JrvJH0/s/750/750/KLG7226-050529-00813.jpg

https://ssl.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000LfJf43D9Ssc/s/750/750/KLG7226r93-f5.jpg

They also had Cylinder Seals similar to the once the sumerians used.
https://ssl.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I00001XCcWB1WUbU/s/750/750/KLG7226r04f6-tr28.jpg

https://ssl.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000uEX0Yu.fEwY/s/750/750/KLG7226r3-f34.jpg

[uzn]

Mainstream archaelogy says it´s roundabout 4000 years old.

Turkmenistan; Gonor Depe site

https://ssl.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I00002qopoaKIElE/s/750/750/KLG7226r107-f8.jpg

https://ssl.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000OMMF_EIG0.w/s/750/750/KLG7226r99-f35.jpg

https://ssl.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000ysDhvPr6gf8/s/750/750/KLG7226r113f1-tr21.jpg

http://greenash.net.au/media/cache/67/87/6787d927be5ea589412f70a063d64329.jpg


Ayaz Kala (fortress 2) of Khwarezm (Chorasmia), today desert but in ancient times green and lush. (Uzbekistan)
http://greenash.net.au/media/cache/41/aa/41aaf12aee34f07e6f85c3a22ccd412b.jpg

Dev-kesken Kala as photographed by Soviet Archaeologist Sergey Tolstov in 1947.
http://greenash.net.au/media/cache/2b/fb/2bfb633bf77cb5d9f940a1daf80b72bc.jpg

Kampyr Tepe overlooking the fertile valley of the Bactrian Oxus.
http://greenash.net.au/media/cache/ef/5d/ef5df27a8a2ea2c43a6dfdfde10d8554.jpg

The formidable walls surrounding the ruins of Bactra, adjacent to modern-day Balkh.
http://greenash.net.au/media/cache/e0/68/e06897174a99d19a34c72c08d548f30d.jpg

There is a little more text about the Oxus Civilisation
http://discovermagazine.com/2006/nov/ancient-towns-excavated-turkmenistan

There is a Oxus Tresure on display in the British Museum. Mostly Gold stuff but no miniature figurines.
This Griffon Bracelet was filled with jewels. But greedy people came along.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/Armlet_from_the_Oxus_Treasure_BM_1897.12-31.116.jpg

The Goldstuff in the British Museum is viewable here on Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxus_Treasure

[uzn]

Martynivka Treasure (Ukrainian: Мартинівський скарб, Martynivsky skarb) is a hoard consisting of 116 silver items (weighing about 3.3 kg) found in 1909, in the village of Martynivka, Cherkasy Oblast, Ukraine. The treasure is currently preserved at the National Historical Museum of Ukraine in Kiev and the British Museum in London. It is dated approximately to the 6th-7th centuries AD.

One object of this treasure looks very interesting:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/Anty_bljashka.jpg

[uzn]

Seven headed Figure carved in Stone called the Khakassia petroglyph.
Unfortunately, the only info I could find about it is that it has been discovered in Khakassia region, Siberia and that it is dated to 5000 BC
(the petroglyph is also dated to 10 000 BC in other sources).

https://cogniarchae.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/siberia-khakassia-petroglyph-about-5-000-bce2.jpg

https://cogniarchae.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/siberia-khakassia-petroglyph-about-5-000-bce.jpg

Brahmi alphabet
https://cogniarchae.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/brahmi_cons.gif

Similar figures on a Stone
https://arcodabara.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/khakassia-petroglyph-pleiades.jpg

Some other seven headed images from other parts of the world
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/fe/09/10/fe091023a9f37877fab19135cd19f7a6.jpg

Source:
https://cogniarchae.wordpress.com/2016/11/06/the-great-riddle-of-a-seven-headed-figure/

[uzn]

Of Course there are also a lot of Stonecircles and Megaliths (Standing Stones) in Russia. Most are found in Siberia and Mongolia.

Some examples

http://www.adventuretravel.ru/Altai/archaeo/m52/inia_stellas.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/aa/48/8a/aa488a97010cab08efb6b07cb62b5fe6--ancient-artifacts-the-late.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c5/Deer_stones.jpg

This one is called the Deer Stone
http://www.viralspell.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/khirigsuur-1.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/61/Deer_stone%2C_Mongolia.jpg

http://ez.chita.ru/photobank/12-plitochnye_mogily_oz_nozhij_1.jpg

http://ez.chita.ru/photobank/plitochnaya_mogila_u_saxyurti.jpg

http://ez.chita.ru/photobank/s.3_plitochnaya_mogila.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/54/e9/f1/54e9f1b15894ff0595121507f4e0cad1--stone-carving-mongolia.jpg

[Bill Ryan]

Really, really fascinating. Thanks again. :star:

[Hervé]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/fe/09/10/fe091023a9f37877fab19135cd19f7a6.jpg



Fascinating... one body, seven "heads" or "lights"... could be a depiction of "chakras"... or seven independent "centers" controlling said "body" with one predominant, central one...

... or... in electrical universe's terms... the depiction of a catastrophe due to the incursion of a cometary body which exploded into seven glowing pieces...

... makes one wonder about what those menorah (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menorah_(Hanukkah)) or Medusa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medusa) tales are an allegory for...

... sorry... :focus:

[Elen]

This subject is what I love most of all uzn, thank you so much for sharing it! :sun:

[Hervé]

Unraveling the Mystery of the “Armenian Stonehenge” (http://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/unraveling-mystery-armenian-stonehenge-180964207/)

By Karine Vann (http://www.smithsonianmag.com/author/karine-vann/) smithsonian.com
July 27, 2017


https://thumbs-prod.si-cdn.com/2oj18rddqjMuaD9IeNsLSWqjliY=/fit-in/1072x0/https://public-media.smithsonianmag.com/filer/b8/45/b845ddca-396c-4ee1-b0a2-bbd134a0ef52/istock-636424988.jpg

(Ozbalci / iStock)


The misty and mountainous valleys of the south Caucasus have been host to human activity continuously for thousands of years, but only recently has the Western archaeological world had access to them.

From the cave in which researchers found the world’s oldest shoe (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/06/100609-worlds-oldest-leather-shoe-armenia-science/) and the oldest winemaking facility (https://www.google.com/search?q=areni+1+cave+national+geographic&oq=areni+1+cave+national+geographic&aqs=chrome..69i57.6105j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8), to traces of an Urartian city with hundreds of wine-holding vessels buried in the ground, the last four decades have witnessed extraordinary interest from scholars and tourists alike in the smallest republic in the former Soviet Union. None, however, are as quite as tantalizing as the 4.5 hectare archaeological site whose name is as contested as its mysterious origins.


https://thumbs-prod.si-cdn.com/xQyOnlxZ0CruunwtgQ4g8FnDQg8=/1024x596/https://public-media.smithsonianmag.com/filer/26/e9/26e961c2-7804-4340-ab34-7b96420f570b/aaeaaqaaaaaaaapwaaaajgrkowu1ytviltm3ntetndq5ni1intaxlte1yziwmjm4mdfhyg.jpg

Helicopter image of Karahundj (Aryans Tours)



Located in Armenia’s southernmost province, Zorats Karer, or as it is vernacularly known, Karahundj, is a site which has been inhabited numerous times across millennia, from prehistoric to medieval civilizations. It consists of a prehistoric mausoleum and nearby, over two hundred neighboring large stone monoliths, eighty of which have distinctive, well-polished holes bored near their upper edge.


In recent years, to the dismay of local scientists, the monoliths have garnered the interest of the international community after some pre-emptive research emerged drawing comparisons between the astronomical implications of Zorats Karer and that of the famous Stonehenge monument in England. Many touristic outlets responded to the comparison by branding Zorats Karer colloquially as the ‘Armenian Stonehenge’ and the resulting debate between the scientific community and popular culture has been a fierce one.


https://public-media.smithsonianmag.com/filer/24/c9/24c95515-f9a3-48ef-8a2e-f673db68c47a/aaeaaqaaaaaaaapoaaaajdnjy2nimmm3lwy1mwmtngq1yi1iztnmlwyxytcyztrhnzcwyw.jpg

(Wikipedia)



The first scholarly account of Zorats Karer took place in 1935 by ethnographer Stepan Lisitsian, who alleged that it once functioned as a station for holding animals. Later, in the 1950s, Marus Hasratyan discovered a set of 11th to 9th century BCE burial chambers. But the first investigation which garnered international attention to the complex was that of Soviet archaeologist Onnik Khnkikyan, who claimed in 1984 that the 223 megalithic stones in the complex may have been used, not for animal husbandry, but instead for prehistoric stargazing. He believed the holes on the stones, which are two inches in diameter and run up to twenty inches deep, may have been used as early telescopes for looking out into the distance or at the sky.

Intrigued by the astronomical implications, the next series of investigations were conducted by an astrophysicist named Elma Parsamian from the Byurakan Astrophysical (https://www.bao.am/)Observator (http://www.bao.am/)y (http://www.bao.am/), one of the main astronomy centers of the USSR. She and her colleagues observed the position of the holes according to an astronomical calendar and established that several of them aligned with the sunrise and sunset on the day of the summer solstice.


https://thumbs-prod.si-cdn.com/KK4NCB2vuRJHlv56CeY8tocFU50=/1024x596/https://public-media.smithsonianmag.com/filer/15/33/1533313b-daab-4e4e-bfc9-91d60bfcd601/the_sunrise_observation_in_the_summer_solstice_parsamian_1985.jpg

Image of Karahundj at Sunset, from Elma Parsamian’s investigations in 1984 (Elma Parsamian)



She is also responsible for suggesting the name Karahundj for the site, after a village 40km away by the same name. Prior to her investigations, locals referred to the site as Ghoshun Dash, which meant ‘Army of Stones’ in Turkic. Folk myth suggests the stones were erected in ancient times to commemorate soldiers killed in war. After the 1930s, locals transitioned to the Armenian translation, Zorats Karer. But Karahundj, Parsamian said, offered a more interesting name because Kar, means stone and hundj, a peculiar suffix which has no meaning in Armenian, sounds remarkably similar to the British ‘henge’. In recent years, this name has received extreme criticism from scholars and in scientific texts, the name Zorats Karer is used nearly exclusively.


Several years later, a radiophysicist named Paris Herouni performed a series of amateur studies branching off from Parsamian’s, using telescopic methods and the precession laws of Earth. He argued that the site actually dates back to around 5500 BCE., predating its British counterpart by over four thousand years. He strongly pioneered for a direct comparison to Stonehenge and even went so far as to etymologically trace the name Stonehenge to the word Karahundj, claiming it really had Armenian origins. He was also in correspondence with the leading scholar of the Stonehenge observatory theory, Gerald Hawkins, who approved of his work. His claims were quick to catch on, and other scholars who strongly contest his finding have found them difficult to dispel.


https://thumbs-prod.si-cdn.com/4ky0SgPv1sFoB4QSw8QXKctX3l8=/1024x596/https://public-media.smithsonianmag.com/filer/51/55/5155f3b7-6bdb-41bc-8032-8bd35756bd67/wwwanunner.jpg

A figure from Herouni’s book Armenians and Old Armenia where he points out this group of stones as an astronomical tool. (Armenians and Old Armenia)



The problem with the “Armenian Stonehenge” label, notes archaeo-astronomer Clive Ruggles in Ancient Astronomy: An Encyclopedia of Cosmologies and Myth (https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=Q9YYqiXm-lkC&oi=fnd&pg=PR9&dq=Carahunge%22,+Ancient+Astronomy:+An+Encyclopedia+of+Cosmologies+and+Myth&ots=aEsz3QJnXn&sig=XEtZse8H4La3FTMqNclGQQD9mas#v=onepage&q=carahunge&f=false), is that analyses that identify Stonehenge as an ancient observatory have today largely been dispelled. As a result, he says, the research drawing comparisons between the two sites is “less than helpful.”


According to Professor Pavel Avetisyan, an archaeologist at the National Academy of Sciences in Armenia, there is no scientific dispute about the monument. “Experts have a clear understanding of the area,” he says, “and believe that it is a multi-layered [multi-use] monument, which requires long-term excavation and study.” In 2000, he helped lead a team of German researchers from University of Munich in investigating the site. In their findings (http://www.biainili-urartu.de/Armenia/2000/Armenia-2000-Eng.html), they, too, criticized the observatory hypothesis, writing, “... [A]n exact investigation of the place yields other results. [Zora Karer], located on a rocky promontory, was mainly a necropolis from the Middle Bronze Age to the Iron Age. Enormous stone tombs of these periods can be found within the area.” Avetisyan's team dates the monument to no older than 2000 BCE, after Stonehenge, and also suggested the possibility that the place served as a refuge during times of war in the Hellenistic period.

“The view that the monument is an ancient observatory or that its name is Karahundj is elementary charlatanism, and nothing else. All of that,” says Avetisian, “has nothing to do with science.”

Unfortunately for Avetisyan, dispelling myths about Zorats Karer is difficult when so few resources exist in English to aid the curious Westerner. Richard Ney, an American who moved to Armenia in 1992, founded the Armenian Monuments Awareness Project (http://www.amap.am/) and authored the first English-language resource (http://www.armenianheritage.org/en/monument/Karahundj) to the site from 1997, has witnessed over two decades of back-and-forth. He believes Karahundj is “caught between two different branches of science with opposing views on how to derive fact. Both are credible,” he says, “and I feel both can be correct, but will never admit it.”

Despite all the controversy and whatever you end up deciding to call it, the monument itself is stunning and located in an area of Armenia well-endowed with natural beauty, making it an attractive journey for many tourists each year. It’s even become an object of contemporary interest to young urbanites and neo-Pagans from Yerevan, who are known to celebrate certain solstices there. In many ways, Zorats Karer is a testament to the elusive nature of archaeology, and it’s perhaps the case that the mystery is–and will remain–part of its appeal.



https://thumbs-prod.si-cdn.com/zcjA9xIGOvfcePexVUVHp4L-lSU=/fit-in/1072x0/https://public-media.smithsonianmag.com/filer/95/c4/95c440b0-0f03-4ee7-a645-1d7b75e1c0c2/istock-636424800.jpg

(Ozbalci / iStock)


https://thumbs-prod.si-cdn.com/zh-TQStlJn5PIQpKg2xJMo7F120=/fit-in/1072x0/https://public-media.smithsonianmag.com/filer/f8/9c/f89cebb1-aa73-42b0-ac6a-31adf76ac2bd/istock-636424630.jpg


(Ozbalci / iStock)


https://thumbs-prod.si-cdn.com/oeWe6sKLufrmjwoKviJc1Ay_ul4=/fit-in/1072x0/https://public-media.smithsonianmag.com/filer/3c/30/3c30033f-66a8-4b85-a5d1-c8ce80700714/zorats_karer_menhir4.jpg

(Wikipedia)

https://thumbs-prod.si-cdn.com/WsLnfwOhykD4dqXdBEbSl5WB_0E=/fit-in/1072x0/https://public-media.smithsonianmag.com/filer/a5/fe/a5fe9921-3bc9-470a-8c39-e9b2a99e9604/istock-185884003.jpg

(VvoeVale / iStock)

[Morbid]

ive been lucky enough to visit that armenian stone complex site. its located near main road towards iran surrounded by stunning mountain views. nature there is very unique with one of the kind lizards lurking all over it. lots of horses all over. the site is much bigger than you might anticipate. overall i highly recommend seeing armenia as the amount of ancient structures, churches, forts & settlements carved in rock is mind boggling.

[jcocks]

Martynivka Treasure (Ukrainian: Мартинівський скарб, Martynivsky skarb) is a hoard consisting of 116 silver items (weighing about 3.3 kg) found in 1909, in the village of Martynivka, Cherkasy Oblast, Ukraine. The treasure is currently preserved at the National Historical Museum of Ukraine in Kiev and the British Museum in London. It is dated approximately to the 6th-7th centuries AD.

One object of this treasure looks very interesting:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/Anty_bljashka.jpg

Certainly looks like a figure dressed in a protective suit with helmet and gloves to me. Space traveller? What do they claim it to be?


Seven headed Figure carved in Stone called the Khakassia petroglyph.
Unfortunately, the only info I could find about it is that it has been discovered in Khakassia region, Siberia and that it is dated to 5000 BC
(the petroglyph is also dated to 10 000 BC in other sources).

https://cogniarchae.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/siberia-khakassia-petroglyph-about-5-000-bce2.jpg

https://cogniarchae.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/siberia-khakassia-petroglyph-about-5-000-bce.jpg

Looks.......Jewish??!! Wow....

Certainly leaves me thinking......

[uzn]

@Herve: Armenian Stoneage with Vine and Shoes. That sounds like a good place to be in these times ;)



Certainly looks like a figure dressed in a protective suit with helmet and gloves to me. Space traveller? What do they claim it to be?


De usual: Either they say it´s the best the Artist could do, or it´s not getting mentioned much.



Here is another interesting Settlement in Russia: Arkaim
aka Swastika City aka Mandala City

Thats how it looked when it was found:

http://www.kramola.info/sites/default/files/any_images/4678789083.jpg

Arkaim is an archaeological site situated in the Southern Urals steppe, 8.2 kilometres (5.1 mi) north-to-northwest of Amurskiy, and 2.3 km (1.4 mi) south-to-southeast of Alexandronvskiy, two villages in the Chelyabinsk Oblast, Russia, just to the north from the Kazakhstani border.
The ancient Ural fortress is called Russian Stonehenge. In addition to streets and buildings ruins scientists found remnants of the water system, metallurgic furnaces, and mines. It is also believed to be one of the strongest anomaly zones in Russia.
The site is generally dated to the 17th century BC. Earlier dates, up to the 20th century BC, have been proposed. It was a settlement of the Sintashta-Petrovka culture. Newly found artifacts make the site itself much older; scientists agree on it being at least as old as Troy and the Egyptian pyramids; it dates back to the 4th millennium BC. It is said to be older then Stonehenge (3300 BC).

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/00/%D0%90%D1%80%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%B8%D0%BC_2015.jpg

Discovery and Excavation The site was discovered in 1987 by a team of Chelyabinsk scientists who were preparing the area to be flooded in order to create a reservoir, and examined in rescue excavations led by Gennadii Zdanovich. At first their findings were ignored by Soviet authorities, who planned to flood the site as they had flooded Sarkel earlier, but the attention attracted by news of the discovery forced the Soviet government to revoke its plans for flooding the area. It was designated a cultural reservation in 1991.

Russia's president Vladimir Putin visited the site in 2005, meeting in person with the chief archaeologist Gennady Zdanovich. The visit received much attention from Russian media. They presented Arkaim as the "homeland of the majority of contemporary people in Asia, and, partly, Europe". Nationalists called Arkaim the "city of Russian glory" and the "most ancient Slavic-Aryan town". Zdanovich reportedly presented Arkaim to the president as a possible "national idea of Russia",[14] a new idea of civilisation which Shnirelman calls the "Russian idea". According to several analysts, Putin's visit was undoubtedly a message, and it gave credit to the interpretation of Arkaim as an Aryan cult centre.

In order to gain publicity, the early investigators described Arkaim as "Swastika City", "Mandala City", and "the ancient capital of early Aryan civilization, as described in the Avesta and Vedas". The swastika description refers to the floor plan of the site, which (with some imagination) may appear similar to the swastika symbol, albeit with rounded arms (similar to the lauburu) attached to a central ring instead of a cross.
http://www.renegadetribune.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/picture2-5-2.png


Also the floorplan assembles in some way a Mandala.
http://krupadetarnawa.weebly.com/uploads/6/5/5/3/6553958/356969.jpg?630

two rather ok Videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oq5JMUWFtFM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4Mi4AeexG8

Since its discovery, Arkaim has attracted public and media attention in Russia, from a broad range of the population, including esoteric, New Age and pseudoscientific organizations. It is said to be the most enigmatic archaeological site within the territory of Russia, and as with many archaeological discoveries, many conflicting interpretations have been put forward.

There are many pictures of imagined buildings how it meight have looked but that´s pretty much just speculation.

more background about Arkaim:
http://www.crystalinks.com/arkaim.html
http://www.newdawnmagazine.com/articles/arkaim-russias-ancient-city-the-arctic-origin-of-civilisation

http://visitural.info/system/uploads/administrative_division_medium/image/98/______.jpg

[uzn]

Southern Siberia , Оkunev culture. Said to have been around in russia about 200 BC. The Stone Art is something I have never seen before. At closest it might be far related the the american Indians.
There is also a figure with seven "Serpents" at his Head.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/57/55/b1/5755b1a6f7cb46717577c0c7f0617ca8.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/69/cb/7a/69cb7a4ddbc3291599fdef43e53c68fd--ancient-indian-art-neolithic-art.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/7d/c0/ac/7dc0ace8e41296dbaf0936924956dcce--ancient-artifacts-native-americans.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/29/bd/1b/29bd1bf89571bcd8089d5b35f52c9574--ancient-artifacts-siberia.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/88/b2/56/88b256eb09dcb5fb461d127252abda3b.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-stqGwxkYetg/TaQuH0lAdmI/AAAAAAAABBg/_aAp8KmqMe8/s1600/%25D0%2598%25D0%25B7%25D0%25B2%25D0%25B0%25D1%258F%25D0%25BD%25D0%25B8%25D0%25B5+%25D1%2581+%25D0%25 BE%25D0%25B7%25D0%25B5%25D1%2580%25D0%25B0+%25D0%2591%25D0%25B5%25D0%25BB%25D1%2591.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/9d/0b/e3/9d0be3a4796e0447eac59ec78e86f922--russian-culture-glyphs.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/16/e8/67/16e8674cd42f545522f65b9e916d55e1--siberia.jpg

[uzn]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-V-EoOqjM430/TaQ2m-VzDZI/AAAAAAAABCQ/qMuMg7jA9m8/s1600/%25D0%25A8%25D0%25B8%25D1%2580%25D0%25B8%25D0%25BD%25D1%2581%25D0%25BA%25D0%25BE%25D0%25B5+%25D0%259 8%25D0%25B7%25D0%25B2%25D0%25B0%25D1%258F%25D0%25BD%25D0%25B8%25D0%25B5+%25D0%25B2%25D0%25B8%25D0%25 B4+%25D1%2581%25D0%25B1%25D0%25BE%25D0%25BA%25D1%2583+%25D0%25B8+%25D1%2581%25D0%25BF%25D0%25B5%25D1 %2580%25D0%25B5%25D0%25B4%25D0%25B8.jpg

http://arheologija.ru/wp-content/uploads/iskusstvo-bronzovogo-veka.jpg

http://arheologija.ru/wp-content/uploads/pozdniy-bronzovyiy-vek-18.jpg

http://arheologija.ru/wp-content/uploads/lichin.jpeg

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/69/6d/22/696d22883104cc3f01d12083371cf205--siberia.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/ea/65/ca/ea65cad14fdcf0ec578b64fe3c0de0ef.jpg

[uzn]

The Lord's Fortress in Georgia

Uplistsikhe, whose name translates to 'Fortress of the Lord', is an ancient rock-hewn town which played a significant role in Georgian history over a period of approximately 3,000 years.  Archaeological excavations have revealed extraordinary artifacts dating from the late Bronze Age all the way up to the late Middle Ages.

Even Wikipedia is very vague (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uplistsikhe):
Uplistsikhe (Georgian: უფლისციხე [upʰlistsʰixɛ]; literally, "the lord's fortress") is an ancient rock-hewn town in eastern Georgia, some 10 kilometers east of the town of Gori, Shida Kartli.
Built on a high rocky left bank of the Mtkvari River, it contains various structures dating from the Early Iron Age to the Late Middle Ages, and is notable for the unique combination of various styles of rock-cut cultures from Anatolia and Iran, as well as the co-existence of pagan and Christian architecture.

So they place it around 1000 BC. To me it loocks way more ancient, later used and even later built upon. Has a lot of similarities with the ancient cavehousing on the Crimean Peninsula near the Mangup Fortress. Sometimes called Feodoro or Theodoro. See second post in this Thread. But take a look yourself at the fortress of the Lord.

https://ge.rsp.travel/upload/ge/Georgia/uplistsikhe.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/11/2016_Uplisciche%2C_Rezerwat_historyczno-architektoniczny_%28026%29.jpg/1280px-2016_Uplisciche%2C_Rezerwat_historyczno-architektoniczny_%28026%29.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/63/August_2013_at_Uplistsikhe_18.jpg/1280px-August_2013_at_Uplistsikhe_18.jpg

http://krontour.ro/wp-content/gallery/azerbaijan-georgia-armenia/7.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-qX389sBsiug/Vi5HEGvjKdI/AAAAAAAACo4/NbePqaT1f_M/s1600/Uplistsikhe.Head.jpg

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/digitall_angell/38000872/2479989/2479989_original.jpg

http://media5.trover.com/T/576d9b567eb4f4290000e03c/fixedw_large_4x.jpg

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/digitall_angell/38000872/2472559/2472559_original.jpg

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/digitall_angell/38000872/2472388/2472388_original.jpg

[uzn]

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/digitall_angell/38000872/2470121/2470121_original.jpg

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/digitall_angell/38000872/2481592/2481592_original.jpg

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/digitall_angell/38000872/2480789/2480789_original.jpg

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/digitall_angell/38000872/2479225/2479225_original.jpg

There is also a big tunnel descending in the complex.
http://www.advantour.com/img/georgia/gori/uplistsikhe1.jpg

https://georgiabest.ru/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Tonnel-k-Kure.-Uplistsihe-Gruziya-1024x681.jpg

https://ourmanintbilisi.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/uplistsikhe5.jpg

https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/altes-technikger%C3%A4t-f%C3%BCr-wasser-der-alten-h%C3%B6hlenstadt-uplistsikhe-georgia-60589768.jpg

[uzn]

The whole Complex
https://dbf3bb47b670eaaa7be1-968fa800d06a2236454303935cd1d7a3.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/774921171374573218ufliscixe-kote%20gabrichidze.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-cfdQPcq6NTo/VWBUlGNrfqI/AAAAAAAAM7A/jXipyF50og4/s1600/544%2BRoof%2Bcarved%2Blike%2Bbeams%252C%2BUplistsikhe.JPG

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5131cf3de4b027b1c04f052d/t/57828ba959cc687a7d6740a2/1468173258867/

http://museum.ge/files/colection/kinophoto/janashia/07216-19498.jpg

http://hitchhikershandbook.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Uplistsikhe-Cave-Town-Georgia-by-Gerhard-Korts.jpg

https://jimholroyd365.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/p1290955.jpg

http://assets.atlasobscura.com/media/W1siZiIsInVwbG9hZHMvcGxhY2VfaW1hZ2VzLzVkNTI0NTEyZjcwM2UwZDgxNl9JTUdfNTIxMC5KUEciXSxbInAiLCJ0aHVtYiIs Ijk4MHg-Il0sWyJwIiwiY29udmVydCIsIi1xdWFsaXR5IDgxIC1hdXRvLW9yaWVudCJdXQ/5d524512f703e0d816_IMG_5210.JPG

[uzn]

http://assets.atlasobscura.com/media/W1siZiIsInVwbG9hZHMvcGxhY2VfaW1hZ2VzL2JiNzUwNWUzNDU1NjU5OGE0ZDdiM2UxNDY1NTUxZWE5ZTAyYjIzYWUuanBnIl0s WyJwIiwidGh1bWIiLCI5ODB4PiJdLFsicCIsImNvbnZlcnQiLCItcXVhbGl0eSA4MSAtYXV0by1vcmllbnQiXV0/bb7505e34556598a4d7b3e1465551ea9e02b23ae.jpg

http://assets.atlasobscura.com/media/W1siZiIsInVwbG9hZHMvcGxhY2VfaW1hZ2VzLzg1MGQ2M2FkNGMxZjg3YTZiMGY3ZWE1MjE0MDkyZjM4MTQzOGMyMmQuanBnIl0s WyJwIiwidGh1bWIiLCI5ODB4PiJdLFsicCIsImNvbnZlcnQiLCItcXVhbGl0eSA4MSAtYXV0by1vcmllbnQiXV0/850d63ad4c1f87a6b0f7ea5214092f381438c22d.jpg

http://assets.atlasobscura.com/media/W1siZiIsInVwbG9hZHMvcGxhY2VfaW1hZ2VzLzZkODk5OTQ1NzQ4NzdiODRmMzIyNDRiYTc1N2RjOTM5MGMzZGViMmUuanBnIl0s WyJwIiwidGh1bWIiLCI5ODB4PiJdLFsicCIsImNvbnZlcnQiLCItcXVhbGl0eSA4MSAtYXV0by1vcmllbnQiXV0/6d89994574877b84f32244ba757dc9390c3deb2e.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e5/2016_Uplisciche%2C_Rezerwat_historyczno-architektoniczny_%28019%29.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b6/2016_Uplisciche%2C_Rezerwat_historyczno-architektoniczny_%28025%29.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/August_2013_at_Uplistsikhe_26.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d6/August_2013_at_Uplistsikhe_27.jpg/2160px-August_2013_at_Uplistsikhe_27.jpg

That´s not 3000 years withering of these stairs, looks way more.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/August_2013_Uplistsikhe_06.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5e/August_2013_Uplistsikhe_14.jpg/2160px-August_2013_Uplistsikhe_14.jpg

[uzn]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ef/August_2013_Uplistsikhe_23.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/August_2013_Uplistsikhe_24.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/Uplis-Tsikhe_complex%2C_Georgia._2017_%281%29.jpg


There is also an orthodox church chisseled into there somewhere but I left it out and concentrated on the really old stuff.
Like These strange Tracks:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c3/2016_Uplisciche%2C_Rezerwat_historyczno-architektoniczny_%28002%29.jpg


Here a quick look around

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keN8jaC3iUU


and here a collection of images (maybe turn of the sound)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii8Do2R1Dj8

[Jayke]

Awesome pics uzn, it boggles the mind at how sophisticated this ancient society must've been :)

This vid below has already been posted in post 6 of this thread, but I feel it deserves highlighting again due to some interesting connections that can be made.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAFX_5fAEbc

At 5 minutes in it talks (and shows pictures) of a black pyramid, then talks of megalithic stones 10 times the size of those found at Baalbek, shows evidence of sulphur balls that could've been used in an ancient war to attack and decimate these ancient structures (could account for some of the pock like scars burnt into some of these ancient sites), a human tooth 1.5 times the size of ordinary teeth indicating the presence of giants.

And the other data point I found significant is the mention of failed military bases set up in the area, failed because the area is so energetically charged that the copper wire used in the sites electronics kept burning out and becoming short circuited. This part reminded me of the energy weapons the Russians have been using to switch off the electronics of US navel ships, causing them to float defenceless in the ocean while Russian planes run mock attack drills across the ships hull. Could the Russian energy technology have been reverse engineered from these ancient sites?

There's also stories of 300,000 year old nano structures being found in the Ural Mountains, what have become known as out of place artefacts (https://www.ancient-code.com/300000-year-old-nanostructures-found-in-the-ural-mountains/)

There's also stories in Tibet of the first Buddha, a pre-historic Bon shaman who originated from Zhang Zhung 18,000 years ago (https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/9937506115/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=UMIYAN5Q7POE&coliid=I4689E8GNDS8M). Zhang Zhung is considered to be a land of the gods that existed to the west of Tibet, its interesting that Tibetan lamas still make a yearly pilgrimage to sites found in aratta above the Black Sea, according to Tim and Lee Hookers presentation on aratta (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hPiuS6UUc1Q).

Anyway, definitely a fascinating and as of yet vastly unexplored area of the world, a deeper study of which could radically alter our perceptions of world history. Again uzn, thanks for the thread :)

[Foxie Loxie]

Totally amazing, uzn! Had never heard of this place; thanks so much for posting! :highfive:

[uzn]

Big Stoneballs can also be found in russia. As in all other parts of the world. There are no real theories about how or why they are there. Some arue ist vulcanic clumps flew through the air and formed Stonespheres. But the size suggest thats not the case. Other more open minded persons speculate it could have been ancient ammo of sorts. But nobody really knows.

Some were found on the Champ Island, Franz Joseph Land, Russia


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoQ9jQtiqNo

http://www.lazerhorse.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Champ-Island-Stone-Spheres-arctic-boats.jpg

http://www.lazerhorse.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Champ-Island-Stone-Spheres-franz-josef.jpg

http://www.lazerhorse.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Champ-Island-Stone-Spheres-ball.jpg

http://www.lazerhorse.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Champ-Island-Stone-Spheres-bleak.jpg

http://www.lazerhorse.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Champ-Island-Stone-spheres-frozen.jpg

http://www.lazerhorse.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Champ-Island-Stone-balls-mystery.jpg

Source:
http://www.lazerhorse.org/2014/05/22/mysterious-stone-balls-champ-island/

[uzn]

https://www.slavorum.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Champ-Island-Stone-Spheres-franz-josef9.jpg


Huge stone spheres in Mangistau, Kazakhstan
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d4/c8/a3/d4c8a3c22ad19a08072efb55e0008627.jpg


These here are the famous Costa Rica Stone Spheres, very similar to the ones found on Champ Island
https://feel-planet.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Stone-spheres-of-Costa-Rica2.png

[Foxie Loxie]

WOW! Amazing again, uzn!! :highfive:

[Hervé]

One possibility among others: Concretions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concretion):


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e2/%D0%9A%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B5%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%B8_%D0%B2_%D0%97%D0%B0%D0%BF%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%BD%D 0%BE%D0%BC_%D0%9A%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B0%D1%85%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B5._Concretions._Western_Kazakh stan.JPG/1280px-%D0%9A%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B5%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%B8_%D0%B2_%D0%97%D0%B0%D0%BF%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%BD%D 0%BE%D0%BC_%D0%9A%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B0%D1%85%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B5._Concretions._Western_Kazakh stan.JPG
Concretions in Western Kazakhstan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakhstan)

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakhstan)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3a/07-ml-3-soil-mosaic-B019R1_br.jpg/1920px-07-ml-3-soil-mosaic-B019R1_br.jpg
Mosaic shows spherules, some partly embedded, spread over (smaller) soil grains on the Martian surface.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1e/MoerakiBouldersSunrise.jpg
Moeraki Boulders (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moeraki_Boulders), New Zealand

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d8/MoquiMarble1.jpg/1024px-MoquiMarble1.jpg
Moqui Marbles, hematite, goethite concretions, from the Navajo Sandstone of southeast Utah. The cube at the top is one cubic centimeter in size.





... another one is the occurrence of natural, high speed water tumblers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumble_finishing) that abrade/polish rocks into shape like I suspect this one to be a result of:



https://www.ancient-code.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Artificials-megaliths-6.jpg
... where a boulder got tumbled around in a mountain gulch (http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/gulches) AND drilled the hole it was tumbling in...



Never mind when both phenomena are combined: Nodules + wave actions:



https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/32/Bowling_Balls_Beach_2_edit.jpg/1024px-Bowling_Balls_Beach_2_edit.jpg
Concretions on Bowling Ball Beach (Mendocino County, California) weathered out of steeply tilted Cenozoic mudstone

[avid]

Logical, vibrational, love geological history. My earliest fanaticism, not the Beatles, but with a specialist hammer on Tallentire Hill looking for trilobites etc, and finding them hundreds of feet above sea level, so overwhelming... makes shopping in the local supermarket irrelevant in the great scheme of things! My old geology teacher 'Trigger' also taught my father and brother, so we have always had a great respect for Lakeland history, we can tap a geode, and love a drumlin. So lucky to live here... ❤️

[Bill Ryan]

Off-topic on this thread, but some stone spheres ('petrospheres', they're called) do seem pretty hard to explain. There are many in Costa Rica: just search for ["stone spheres" + "Costa Rica"] and you'll be inundated with interesting images.

Here are just a few:

http://www.crystalinks.com/CostaRicsaStonesSpheres2.jpg

http://temaonline.bg/userfiles/images/StoneLothrop.jpg

http://www.viewzone.com/balls2.jpg

:focus:

[Bill Ryan]

WOW! Amazing again, uzn!! :highfive:

Yes. This is a great thread. Like many others, I was very familiar with ancient anomalous megaliths in Central and South America, Europe, and the Middle East.

But very few of the sites posted here I knew much if anything about.... please keep it all coming.

:thumbsup:

[uzn]

Off-topic on this thread, but some stone spheres ('petrospheres', they're called) do seem pretty hard to explain. There are many in Costa Rica: just search for ["stone spheres" + "Costa Rica"] and you'll be inundated with interesting images.


I find some of them just a bit to perfect to be comforting ;)


Lets draw the attention to the biggest Cave complex in Georgia. It´s basically a City in a mountain. In the middle ages an earthquake took down a lot of the fasade.
It´s called City Cave Vardzia. The History is very foggy. Mainstream Archeologists want to give the ehole credit to some middle aged Monks.
Wikipedia is not so sure:
Soviet-era excavations have shown that the area of Vardzia was inhabited during the Bronze Age and indicated the reach of Trialeti culture.
(Yeah thanks Wikipedia, that leaves us with the typical guess of about 3000 -1000 BC).

But that´s about it. Well of course these caves are ancient and have been reutilized in the middle ages as a Monostary. And they did some serious rechisseling and added a basilika in there. But the old smell and feel is all in there:
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/gA2eB9V50nc/maxresdefault.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/00/A._Roinashvili._0306_-_Vardzia.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/A._Roinashvili._0302_-_Vardzia.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ac/A._Roinashvili._0305_-_Vardzia.jpg

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-6Ih7Reo0GR8/U0lsSV2MgvI/AAAAAAAAuS8/HO5fU5ZQjWc/s1600/vardzia+georgia+18.jpg

http://www.caucasianchallenge.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/5531011055_75e339cd4f_z.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-nHBoEs1oIM8/U0li_wIx5nI/AAAAAAAAuRk/HrRicnzyv5k/s1600/vardzia+georgia+9.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/Rock-hewn_steps_in_Vardzia.jpg


That is what the Monks used it for:
The greater Vardzia area includes also the early eleventh-century church at Zeda Vardzia and the tenth- to twelfth-century rock village and cave churches of Ananauri. The main lower site was carved from the cliff's central stratum of tufaceous breccia at an elevation of thirteen hundred metres above sea level. It is divided into an eastern and a western part by the Church of the Dormition. In the eastern part of the complex are seventy-nine separate cave dwellings, in eight tiers and with a total of 242 rooms, including six chapels, "Tamar's Room", a meeting room, reception chamber, pharmacy, and twenty-five wine cellars; 185 wine jars sunk into the floor document the importance of viticulture to the monastic economy. In the western part, between the bell tower and the main church, are a further forty houses, in thirteen tiers and with a total of 165 rooms, including six chapels, a refectory with a bakery, other ovens for baking bread, and a forge. Beyond the bell tower the complex rises to nineteen tiers, with steps leading to a cemetery. Infrastructure includes access tunnels, water facilities, and provision for defence

[uzn]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/Vardezia_city_cave%2C_Georgia.jpg


Here is a good view where one can see the part of the mountain that broke off during an earthquake.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/44/Vardzia_04.jpg

Here one of the original rooms
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/89/Vardzia_%2810%29.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-FER2UF5RwE0/UGcIIxYL_DI/AAAAAAAAAM8/JAkQNhPwGyU/s1600/Vardzia+011.JPG

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/57b9b98a29687f1ef5c622df/t/58039ff437c581885cbc5317/1476632571642/vardzia+cave+monastery

http://agenda.ge/uploads/files/Vardzia%20discovery.jpg

Tunnels of course
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/Vardzia_%2811%29.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6f/Vardzia_%2812%29.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bf/Vardzia_%289%29.jpg

[uzn]

https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/0c/8f/b8/f5/inside-vardzia.jpg

http://www.travelbenz.com/var/image_cache/x200q90files_flib_337.jpg

https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/04/7a/c1/13/vardzia.jpg

https://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/100216265.jpg

https://www.journalofnomads.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Vardzia-7.jpg

https://www.journalofnomads.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Vardzia-13.jpg

https://www.journalofnomads.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Vardzia-10.jpg


Here some russians having fun on their trip to Vardzia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOCcQsgLfy0

and a nice Picture collection by vlad9vt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xdat7pxAB_8

[Bill Ryan]

A brief note about those fascinating honeycombed 'cave cities'. There are a few of those in Tibet, including one spectacular one that looks a little similar.

Speculation is that when they were inhabited, there were extensive solid wooden structures (balconies, platforms, stairs) attached to the front of the cliffs, which have long since fallen away and been destroyed by the elements. That certainly seems to make a great deal of sense.

[uzn]

Some more pictures of the ancient Cavehousing complex wrongly called Fortress Mangup.
The 2nd up to the 4th post in this Thread are already of the same Cavehousings.

This is the remains of Fortress Mangup:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/Crimea_2Crimea_DSC_0031-1.jpg

These are the ancient Cavehomes. Clearly mistakeable with the above architectural style for the modern archeologist.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/Crimea_2Crimea_DSC_0003.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/be/Crimea_2Crimea_DSC_0008-1.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/Crimea_2Crimea_DSC_0012-1.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/Crimea_2Crimea_DSC_0014-1.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/98/Crimea_2Crimea_DSC_0015-1.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/71/Crimea_DSC_0839-1.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Crimea_DSC_0841-1.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/Crimea_DSC_0857-1.jpg

[uzn]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/da/Crimea_DSC_0864.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/Crimea_DSC_0865.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Crimea_DSC_0869.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/85/Crimea_DSC_0870.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/19/Crimea_DSC_0871.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/Crimea_DSC_0873.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a4/Crimea_DSC_0984-1.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/94/Crimea_DSC_0994.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/92/Crimea_DSC_0996-1.jpg

[uzn]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b3/Crimea_DSC_0998.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/Crimea_DSC_0999-1.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/Approaches_to_main_gate.JPG

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1e/Mangup_06.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/Mangup_07.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a1/Mangup_08.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/82/Mangup_13.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/27/Mangup_14.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6b/Mangup_15.jpg

[uzn]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2b/Mangup_16.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fc/Mangup_17.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9d/Mangup_19.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Mangup_Cave_Monastery.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/Mangup-IV-1.jpg

Some have even gone and made one of these caves their home.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c5/Mangup-Monastery.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b2/%D0%81%D0%BC%D0%BA%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D1%8C_%D0%B4%D0%BB%D1%8F_%D1%81%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B0_%D0%B6% D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%BA%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ab/%D0%93%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D1%86%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0 %B2%D1%8C.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/%D0%93%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B0_%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B5%D1%86_%C2%AB%D0%9C%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B3%D 1%83%D0%BF-%D0%9A%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B5%C2%BB4.jpg

[uzn]

This Mound is near Arkaim and look old and build. The russian text:Аркаим Исторический парк
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ed/%D0%90%D1%80%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%B8%D0%BC_%D0%98%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BA%D0 %B8%D0%B9_%D0%BF%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%BA_-_panoramio.jpg

Ewan said he never saw honeycomb Erosion like the one in Scotland. Check this out:
The Shakpak Ata caves in Kazakhstan

http://asiamixtravel.com/en/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/01/IMG_8286.jpg

There is a Mosque build in there and many of these Caves are used for living today.

http://silkadv.com/sites/default/files/Kazahstan/Tours/Mangyshlak/Religious_tours_to_Mangyshlak/Sacred_Shakpak_Ata_and_Sultan_Epe/0_1_Sakpak_Ii.JPG

https://tengrinews.kz/userdata/images/u161/resized/1d83aa57a0803bcd821964ea8628ba16.jpg

http://el.kz/storage/04/04f9d2a3956d953bfc4c9f7e76b71759.jpg

http://mangystau.info/_images/Svyatie_mesta/Shakpak_Ata/1%20(9).jpg

http://el.kz/storage/ec/ec778ae2a0d3e820ac74123b7b2408e5.jpg

http://photos.wikimapia.org/p/00/05/36/84/95_big.jpg

http://www.ptax.ru/images/Kaz2011/IMG_4449.jpg

[uzn]

http://www.unikaz.asia/sites/default/files/public/styles/uique_facts_full_image/public/upload/a-sliders/20140714/beket_ata_5.jpg?itok=QWXBd4m8

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KLshFJjdAw0/U-6O99Wxl1I/AAAAAAAAAu8/j8w-TNTTb4E/s1600/32.jpg

https://kazakhstanwonders.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/shakpak-ata.png?w=500&h=353

http://silkadv.com/sites/default/files/Kazahstan/Tours/Mangyshlak/Pilgrim_tours/Tmosque_Shakpak_Ata/0_3_Shakpak_Ata_kj.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8Lf8V3CQAIy4M-.jpg

https://kazakhstan.orexca.com/img/tours/mangyshlak/shopan-ata2-2.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-1jGlH6ZzPXU/U-6PAEWTymI/AAAAAAAAAvM/hAVa6bloD4c/s1600/34.jpg

http://www.unikaz.asia/sites/default/files/public/styles/uique_facts_full_image/public/upload/a-sliders/20140228/shakpak_ata_palomniki_o_belyalov_2123.jpg

https://zhanaozen1216.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/shakpak-ata-atrokhua.jpg

[uzn]

http://silkadv.com/sites/default/files/Kazahstan/Tours/Mangyshlak/Religious_tours_to_Mangyshlak/Sacred_Shakpak_Ata_and_Sultan_Epe/0_2_Ata_shakpak_kj.JPG

Underground halls of a mosque the Sultan-Epe
http://silkadv.com/sites/default/files/Kazahstan/Tours/Mangyshlak/Religious_tours_to_Mangyshlak/Sacred_Shakpak_Ata_and_Sultan_Epe/0_4_Vnizu_kk.JPG

The following pictures are of the underground mosque
http://silkadv.com/sites/default/files/Kazahstan/Excursions/One_days_tours_on_Mangyshlak/Mechet_Sultan_Epe/0_2_Epesha_o.JPG

https://kazakhstan.orexca.com/img/tours/sultan_epe/10-10.jpg

https://kazakhstan.orexca.com/img/tours/sultan_epe/4-4.jpg

https://kazakhstan.orexca.com/img/tours/sultan_epe/6-6.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/92/d3/7b/92d37b530da3210db3f94247c1308ca5.jpg

https://kazakhstan.orexca.com/img/tours/sultan_epe/7-7.jpg

https://tengrinews.kz/userdata/images/u161/resized/f3b134b8c34e8feb690f7839f4b65276.jpg

[uzn]

This is the entrance to the mosque
https://kazakhstan.orexca.com/img/tours/sultan_epe/5-5.jpg

some more pictures outside the mosque
https://aktau-mangistau.kz/uploads/ba2.jpg

https://aktau-mangistau.kz/uploads/ba6.jpg

https://aktau-mangistau.kz/uploads/bab5.jpg

https://sputniknews.kz/images/224/61/2246133.jpg

https://sputniknews.kz/images/215/47/2154750.jpg

https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4109/5038414612_2acdb453d3_b.jpg

https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4132/5037788539_13acaef174_b.jpg

I just have to post more of these Niches. Amazing, feels as if they were fluid at some point.
https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4112/5038408844_8b737953d3_b.jpg

[uzn]

If this is erosion then these are way old.
https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4145/5037789991_05958210f4_b.jpg

and two Videos, in the first it takes a while till they reach the Caves

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt3hT0ICrPw

Collection of pictures

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuJf4N-uksM

[uzn]

The Cave Complex "Dovbush Rocks"

Looks and feels very ancient.
Wikipedia is very short about it is an understatment:
The Rocks of Dovbush is a group of natural and man-made structures carved out of rock at around 980 m ASL in the Ivano-Frankivsk Oblast (province) of western Ukraine. The name of the formations comes from a leader of the opryshky movement, Oleksa Dovbush.
The rocks are a part of the Polyanytskiy Regional Landscape Park.
That´s it, no date no theory.

Let´s take a look:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/98/%D0%9F%D0%B5%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%BF%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81_%D 0%B2_%D0%91%D1%83%D0%B1%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%89%D0%B5_01.jpg/1200px-%D0%9F%D0%B5%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%BF%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81_%D 0%B2_%D0%91%D1%83%D0%B1%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%89%D0%B5_01.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/Skeli_Dovbusha_1.JPG

This they call the Lion´s Face. Could have been carved to some extend.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/Skeli_Dovbusha_4.JPG

https://location4film.com.ua/uploads/location/2016/1cb253b903a561fe3675caf0edbcdf88ec231f6d.jpg

http://svit-mandry.com/upload/catalog_tours/100/32/skalydovbusha.jpg

https://s3.amazonaws.com/gs-geo-images/814e7375-b7f8-4563-9652-66db2919853a_l.jpg

Inside
https://thumb7.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/1340215/313317641/stock-photo-about-bolekhiv-village-in-the-carpathians-ukraine-placed-huge-rocks-dovbush-caves-inside-313317641.jpg

https://thumb7.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/1340215/345242414/stock-photo-about-bolekhiv-village-in-the-carpathians-ukraine-placed-huge-rocks-dovbush-caves-inside-345242414.jpg

[uzn]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/D8t2I0Q8I_8/maxresdefault.jpg

http://www.ukrainevacay.com/images/Tours/tours-lviv/Dovbush-Rocks/Dovbush-Rocks-and-Goshivsky-Monastery-1.jpg

http://www.ukrainevacay.com/images/Tours/tours-lviv/Dovbush-Rocks/Dovbush-Rocks-and-Goshivsky-Monastery-2.jpg

https://www.tkg.org.ua/files/images/0car06ns_monastery.jpg

http://worldtranslation.org/uploads/Image/News/Travel/Dovbush%20Rocks5.jpg

http://lviv.restgeo.com/ContentImage/i781f1638/skalnyy-monastyr-v-rozgirchomu-skalnyy-monastyr-v-s-rozgirche-lvovskoy-obl.jpg

On the territory surrounded by caves and rocks, there is an ancient well. Today its depth is 4 feet, although in ancient times it was much deeper.
Here is an oversight of the Caves in russian
https://ua.igotoworld.com/frontend/webcontent/websites/1/images/gallery/1943188_800x600_067.gif

http://www.geo.de/reisen/community/bild/regular/774172/In-den-Dovbush-Rocks.jpg

https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/dovbush-rocks-bubnyshche-legendary-place-ancient-cave-monastery-fantastic-boulders-amidst-beautiful-scenic-forests-66224639.jpg

[Ewan]

This aeration of the rock, I don't know how else to describe it, looks quite unusual and strange to me. Would our resident geologist, Hervé, or anyone, be able to give it a name?


http://www.unikaz.asia/sites/default/files/public/styles/uique_facts_full_image/public/upload/a-sliders/20140714/beket_ata_5.jpg?itok=QWXBd4m8


http://silkadv.com/sites/default/files/Kazahstan/Tours/Mangyshlak/Pilgrim_tours/Tmosque_Shakpak_Ata/0_3_Shakpak_Ata_kj.jpg

[uzn]

https://karpatytravel.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/197093_212434105439900_3777544_n.jpg

http://escapetourstravel.com/images/Ukraine/Lviv/dovbush-rocks-ukraine.jpg

In the second half of the Video they visit the site.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3e1VxiH_bw

Picture Collection

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8t2I0Q8I_8

[uzn]

This aeration of the rock, I don't know how else to describe it, looks quite unusual and strange to me. Would our resident geologist, Hervé, or anyone, be able to give it a name?


http://www.unikaz.asia/sites/default/files/public/styles/uique_facts_full_image/public/upload/a-sliders/20140714/beket_ata_5.jpg?itok=QWXBd4m8


http://silkadv.com/sites/default/files/Kazahstan/Tours/Mangyshlak/Pilgrim_tours/Tmosque_Shakpak_Ata/0_3_Shakpak_Ata_kj.jpg



It looks a lot like this there
http://es-kiz.ru/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/bc3e7d57959654a58e2faf94e4ca5372.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3266/2390536950_ff1652dfa9_b.jpg

https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4111/5037797401_f8336d4949_b.jpg

[Ewan]

Dang, that looks pretty natural - however unusual.

I was hoping we had discovered definitive proof of acoustic wave softening of stone to facillitate carving. :)

[Hervé]

Dang, that looks pretty natural - however unusual.
[...]Yep, it's called "weathering (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weathering)" or differential weathering/erosion :)


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/13/KharazaArch.jpg/1024px-KharazaArch.jpg
A natural arch (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_arch) produced by erosion of differentially weathered rock in Jebel Kharaz (Jordan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan))


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/12/Tafoni_03.jpg/1024px-Tafoni_03.jpg
Tafoni (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tafoni) at Salt Point State Park (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_Point_State_Park), Sonoma County, California (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonoma_County,_California).


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cd/Qobustan-salt.jpg/1024px-Qobustan-salt.jpg
Salt weathering of sandstone (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandstone) near Qobustan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qobustan,_Baku), Azerbaijan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azerbaijan).


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/ba/Salt_weathering_in_gozo.jpg/1024px-Salt_weathering_in_gozo.jpg
Salt weathering of building stone on the island of Gozo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gozo), Malta (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malta)


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5b/Pollution_-_Damaged_by_acid_rain.jpg/1024px-Pollution_-_Damaged_by_acid_rain.jpg
Weathering effect of acid rain (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_rain) on statues



... then there are the BIG ones:



https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/47/Sink_hole.jpg/1024px-Sink_hole.jpg
Bimmah or Falling Star Sinkhole in Oman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oman). Most sinkholes are caused by karst processes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karst_topography)—for example, the chemical dissolution of carbonate rocks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbonate_rocks)[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinkhole#cite_note-4) or suffosion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffosion) processes.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinkhole#cite_note-bgs-5)

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinkhole#cite_note-bgs-5)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e9/Karst_minerve.jpg/1920px-Karst_minerve.jpg
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e9/Karst_minerve.jpg/1920px-Karst_minerve.jpg)A karst landscape in Minerve, Hérault (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minerve,_H%C3%A9rault), France (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France)




... discovered definitive proof of acoustic wave softening of stone to facillitate carving. ... or how legends start around camp fires... :bigsmile:

[uzn]

let´s take a look at another topic the mainstream media would want to avoid most times, Elongated Skulls in russia.
Actually the first elongated skulls that were found in russia were the Omsk Skulls. Found near the siberian City Omsk. But back then nobody really paid much Attention. But more on them later. Among many alternative Researchers elongated skulls is quite a toppic.

Yakovenkovo, Crimea
The remains of a 1.5-year-old boy with a large elongated skull were found near the village of Yakovenkovo in the eastern part of the Crimean Peninsula, says the Archaeology Fund (www.archae.ru (http://www.archae.ru)), a group that organizes digs across Central Russia, Crimea and Northern Africa. The grave of boy dates back to the second century.

1,5 years old, that big skull, explain this quakademics ;)
https://i1.wp.com/maestroviejo.es/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/1071085549.jpg

https://i0.wp.com/cdnmundo2.img.sputniknews.com/images/107108/56/1071085633.jpg

Source:
https://www.rt.com/viral/397750-crimea-alien-grave-boy-skull/

Arkaim (for the Site see Post about Arkaim (aka Swastika City aka Mandala City)
The remains were found in Arkaim, near Chelyabinsk in central Russia, a settlement dating back almost 4,000 years. It is believed the woman belonged to a tribe that was part of what is now modern day Ukraine.

The skeleton is thought to date to the second or third century AD, making it considerably younger than the site.

Arkaim is located in the Southern Urals in Russia and is thought to date to the 17th century BC. The 220,000 square foot (20,000 square meter) settlement was protected by two circular walls before it was burned down and abandoned. It had a central square surrounded by two circles of houses separated by a street. Historian K.K. Bystrushkin likened the site to Stonehenge in 2003, saying both allowed ancient people to study the stars. But Arkaim is thought to have been more advanced. Stonehenge allows for observations of 10 astronomical phenomena using 22 elements, while Arkaim enables observations of 18 phenomena using 30 elements. This means that ancient people could have observed and tracked certain events in the sky by using the site in certain ways from particular positions, and that Arkaim offered more observable events than Stonehenge.

https://news.boyarka.name/uploads/posts/2015-07/1438086805_09997851.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pFy14ZMkV7c/VbmTNPZbbbI/AAAAAAAABH8/jZkvR5Tk2ag/s1600/b1280.jpg


http://i1.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article6148579.ece/ALTERNATES/s1200/PAY-skull.jpg


Kislovodsk

From the Museum of Kislovodsk. Kislovodsk is a city in the federal subject of Stavropol Krai in South Russia. The skulls were found in a valley on the outskirts of the city.

http://mtdata.ru/u25/photo5128/20722069488-0/original.jpg

https://cosmicktraveler.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/stavropol03.jpg

https://cosmicktraveler.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/stavropol.jpg




[Mod-edit: Thanks Hervé. I switched the pix.]

[uzn]

Pyatigorsk

In Pyatigorsk, Russia (South-West Russia, between the Black Sea and Caspian Sea), more elongated skulls. The Pyatigorsk museum of regional studies has them on display.

"The Pyatigorsk skull was found at the excavation site of the Khasaot burial ground in the vicinity of Kislovodsk," says Doctor of Historical Sciences Vladimir Kuznetsov, the author of numerous studies of history of the North Caucasus. "The skull is part of culture of the ancient Alani. Approximately, it dates back to the 3rd - 5th centuries A.D. These strange skulls appeared at the same time when the Sarmatian and Alani hordes came around. Some of the nomads moved for the North Caucasus in 15th century."

https://cosmicktraveler.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/pyatigorsk01.jpg


The Tobol River

The Tobol river runs through Kazakhstan and the Russian federation. The excavation was an old burial site, called Ustyug-1, which dated from the 4th to the 6th century BC, and is located in the middle reaches of the Tobol River. According to experts of the Institute of Northern Development SB RAS (IFSP SB RAS), one of the people buried in the cemetery underwent skull deformation. Anthropological reconstruction of the skull of the man, which was 35-40 years old, is shown below. Reconstruction was done by Elena Alekseeva. During the excavation, which was led by Natalia Matveeva, a professor of Tyumen State University, and doctor of historical sciences, the researchers studied 19 mounds and discovered the remains 30 men, women and children. The burials were located not only under the mounds, but also between them. Some of the graves had already been looted and destroyed. A lot of them had long skulls. Test were done by a professor Gerasimov, who said that the skull volume was about 1/4 more than a normal human skull.

http://infoglaz.ru/wp-content/uploads/Attachment1.jpg



Omsk

Then there is the following story about elongated skulls found nearby the city of Omsk in Siberia in the 1990's!

Russian archeologists in the Siberian city of Omsk have found unusual elongated human skulls found in nearby forest, in burial mounds. The archeological team has begun studying bizarre, elongated human skulls found in a nearby forest almost ten years ago. Scholars at the Omsk Museum of History and Culture have no conclusive answer as to the origins of these skulls, which were found in burial mounds that are believed to date from the 4th century A.D. Because of the skulls' bizarre shape they do not show them to the public, fearing that people might be too shocked.

http://static-1.mojvideo.com/foto123256-8671-363558/elongated-skulls-in-omsk-russia.jpg

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Sh9XFpLOKxg/UbeMCu6e9yI/AAAAAAAAB-c/MuSdZymnehE/s320/gu5012dd1d.jpg

http://www.perceptions.couk.com/imgs/elongatedskulls.jpg

[Foxie Loxie]

How interesting that elongated skulls have been found in Russia, as well! :sherlock:

[uzn]

I was still digging deeper and found something very cool. The Kislovodsk Coneheads Hat ;) I dunno if it´s more funny or more frightening ?
Imagine them running around with these ...
http://hroniki-mira.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/kislovodskrus1.jpg
The russian Coneheads had style.

[Bill Ryan]

http://hroniki-mira.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/kislovodskrus1.jpg


Amazing. THX. That's one of the most impressive skulls I've ever seen. (And I never knew they'd been found in Russia, either.)

[Ewan]

I was still digging deeper and found something very cool. The Kislovodsk Coneheads Hat ;) I dunno if it´s more funny or more frightening ?


That's clearly the Kislovodskian precursor to the tin hat, no?

[uzn]

Pyatigorsk Skull, another Picture of it:

http://www.porjati.net/uploads/posts/2014-09/1410389884_1228.jpg


I found another elongated Skull sitting in a little Museum somewhere in Russia. This Text should tell the place, my russian is a bit rusty ;)
Адрес: Омская область, р.п. Муромцево, Муромцевский историко-краеведческий музей, ул. Ленина, 62 Часы работы: понедельник, вторник, среда, четверг - с 9 -00 до 17-30; пятница, воскресенье - с 9-00 до 16-30 Телефоны: (38158) 22-229, с.т. 8-913-626-55-82, с.т.89514124647 (Марина Александровна) Цена билета: 100 руб. + доп. экскурсии.

https://www.2do2go.ru/uploads/6fd2e141e91f18d0bcabacaa5b13b097.jpg

http://strangeworlds.at.ua/kartinki1/9/okunevo11.jpeg


Here is another picture of a russian elogated Skull, (the rightmost one is a painting)
http://www.megaliths.org/photos/1480931876_0.jpg

[uzn]

Giant Footprint in Stone found in Lazovsky, Russia

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Giants/Footprint_005.jpg

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Giants/Footprint_004.jpg

https://megalithica.ru/assets/gallery/222/2398.JPG

[Foxie Loxie]

Absolutely LOVE the Big Footprint! There is one in Ecuador, if I remember correctly, as well as the one Michael Tellinger made famous. Can we assume this one is authentic? :confused:

[uzn]

Absolutely LOVE the Big Footprint! There is one in Ecuador, if I remember correctly, as well as the one Michael Tellinger made famous. Can we assume this one is authentic? :confused:

I think they are legit.. The pictures were uploaded on a Facebook Account by these russian Adventurers/Campers you see in the photos. From there they were copied in the Net. Should not be to hard to find that Facebook account.

And just to give you something russian (sort of) ;)
This Stature was found on the bottom of Lake Baikal, Siberia in 2014
https://ak2.picdn.net/shutterstock/videos/8463682/thumb/1.jpg

https://ak9.picdn.net/shutterstock/videos/9889523/thumb/1.jpg

Definitly chinese, looks somewhat similar to the Sanxingdui Culture
http://www.chinadiscovery.com/assets/images/chengdu/sanxingdui-museum/bronze-human-head-with-gold-mask.jpg
(chinese stature for reference)

It´s no big mystery, the chinese were there at some point in time.

The Chinese also had a Fort in the siberian middle of nowhere called Por Bajin. Officially around the 7 century, but later abandoned. The sientists could not figure out what the Cinese were doing there.

Official Dating 1300 years ago. Russian president Vladimir Putin visited the island with Prince Albert of Monaco in 2007 and said: 'I have been to many places, I have seen many things, but I have never seen anything of the kind'

Thats how they found it:
http://listverse.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/022.jpg

http://img.over-blog-kiwi.com/1/47/74/29/20150624/ob_52bcfc_inside-por-bajin-in-winter.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/6c/a8/38/6ca83813bcb60a2e4367d80e2f69a276.jpg


That´s after the excavation:
The Bridge is new.
http://lifeglobe.net/media/entry/7258/2.jpg

[WhiteFeather]

What a splendid thread. Wow. Thanks to all whom have contributed. I feel like im home looking at all of these images. Possibly a place I may have lived in a previous incarnation. :bigsmile:

[Hervé]

Absolutely LOVE the Big Footprint! There is one in Ecuador, if I remember correctly, as well as the one Michael Tellinger made famous. Can we assume this one is authentic? :confused:

I think they are legit.. [...]
The pictures and their object may be totally legit... amongst the possible interpretations, I am favoring this one regarding the Tellinger case:


Well, the trouble with plutonic rocks like granite is that they solidify deep within the earth's crust.

So, there is no way to leave a surface print on such a material by walking earth surface.

The only possibility is that some astral sculptor had some fun shaping a xenolith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenolith) into a footprint "plaster" while exploring the inner earth :)
... which would be the differential weathering out of a "xenolith." That doesn't rule out the xenolith to be the foot of one of those giant statues the ancient Egyptians were imitating... :bigsmile:

"Real" ancient foot prints of biological bodies are found, usually, on paleo/ancient horizontal flat surfaces... like here (http://www.news.com.au/technology/science/evolution/footprint-find-on-crete-may-push-back-date-humans-began-to-walk-upright/news-story/2e60cbd7386573dd2a45c5cc9d79297d) (<---).

[Sunny-side-up]

What a splendid thread. Wow. Thanks to all whom have contributed. I feel like im home looking at all of these images. Possibly a place I may have lived in a previous incarnation. :bigsmile:

Yes same with me WhiteFeather, especially the series of images in the 4th post of this great OP, feels like a real heart conection.
All the images and posts in this op just turn my mind to wonderment.
All those individual beings trying to live a safe life together and in such organised scale.

[uzn]

A really nice Mound was Salbyk kurgan surrounded by balbals with kurgan obelisk on the top. Unfortunatly after the excavation not much was left of it.

Photographed before excavation, early 20th-century, Minusinsk territory, Siberia

http://68.media.tumblr.com/7c29257c2c780557baa72bd627369d4c/tumblr_olbrmtkE7I1s4dksfo1_1280.jpg

Officially dated about 500 BC and to be Scythian.

http://68.media.tumblr.com/575c4421d4a680cd0464f75836156376/tumblr_n470996Rgj1s4dksfo1_1280.jpg

Though I doubt the dating on both Mounds

Birdview
http://xn--80abubbalb5cgec5b4kf.xn--p1ai/find/salbik/Salbyk-55.jpg

The Excavation:
A misfortune in the field was Kiselev´s downfall: the gigantic Salbyk Kurgan, which he excavated in 1954-6, turned out to have been stripped bare in antiquity. (They say ;))

http://earth-chronicles.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/MyuP8RnpZBY.jpg

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/aldanov/11891766/2490792/2490792_original.jpg

http://www.megalithic.co.uk/a558/a312/gallery/Eastern_Europe/mrr_22.jpg

http://xn--80abubbalb5cgec5b4kf.xn--p1ai/find/salbik/Salbyk-76.jpg

These were found nearby

http://xn--80abubbalb5cgec5b4kf.xn--p1ai/find/salbik/Salbyk-60.jpg

[uzn]

http://xn--80abubbalb5cgec5b4kf.xn--p1ai/find/salbik/Salbyk-105.jpg

http://xn--80abubbalb5cgec5b4kf.xn--p1ai/find/salbik/Salbyk-71.jpg

Today only the big megalithic Stones remain without the energetic Aura of the once magnificent Mound.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/%D0%A1%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B1%D1%8B%D0%BA%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%BA%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B3%D0%B0%D0%BD1.J PG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TCz543If2Z4/U_POFF_hDqI/AAAAAAAAHpQ/4VtyrJnCXMU/s1600/salb%C4%B1k.png

http://khakassia.travel/assets/images/kulturnoe-nasledie/salbyk/salbyk-bolshie-galereya-2.png

http://khakassia.travel/assets/images/kulturnoe-nasledie/salbyk/salbyk-lena-3.jpg

http://khakassia.travel/assets/images/kulturnoe-nasledie/salbyk/salbyk-lena.jpg

https://i.vivaster.com/images/excursion/photo/img_563b3dbba64284_67477922.jpeg

https://i.vivaster.com/images/excursion/photo/img_563b3dba856c93_64263768.jpeg

[uzn]

http://khakassia.travel/assets/images/kulturnoe-nasledie/salbyk/salbyk-bolshie-galereya-1.png

Just for scale
https://www.baby.ru/storage/2/9/2/4/94489.1260899195.jpeg

https://s.drom.ru/4/pubs/4483/26123/1282643.jpg

http://khakassia.travel/assets/images/kulturnoe-nasledie/salbyk/salbyk-lena2.jpg

[uzn]

Prehistorical petroglyphs carved in rocks. Siberian Altai Mountains Russia
Most look like one would expect, Hunters with bow or spear, Deers, Animals and so on. As in this picture (look closely):
https://earth-chronicles.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/095169482c98507ba5fb6159a01bf650.jpg

But some of them look quite different:
http://earth-chronicles.ru/Publications_11/175/petroglif.jpg

http://travel-altai.com/images/regions/chuya/kalbak-tash/petroglyphes-kalbak-tash1.jpg

http://www.altaiproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Kalbak-Tash-petroglyph-shaman-perhaps.jpg

http://static2.bigstockphoto.com/thumbs/9/3/1/large1500/139335497.jpg

http://static3.bigstockphoto.com/thumbs/9/3/1/large1500/139335515.jpg

[Foxie Loxie]

Eric VonDaniken would LOVE this one!! Cute "skirt" on that one stone! :eyebrows:

[uzn]

These objects come from the region known as Perm, in northeast Russia. All are cast, in various copper alloys. Official Dating of these artefacts is around 500-800. I just find them interesting.

This one they call the "Elk Men". The official Interpretation is that these guys are, well Elk men.
http://paranormal-news.ru/_nw/74/88832495.jpg

https://rgdn.info/assets/uploads/images/photos/86029-pobeda-nad-jivotnim-nathalom-8-.jpg

http://www.visitperm.ru/upload/medialibrary/c3c/c3ccf2619f5d6dc084f19e3641c25bd7.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-I67S0OTcaJ0/TkB_Oh9FtcI/AAAAAAAAGjk/DeTOr15IyjE/s1600/Shaman%2BRussia%2B2nd%2Bc.jpg

https://rgdn.info/assets/uploads/images/photos/6fa08-pticethelovek-9-.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/12/3d/c0/123dc0e44d54484e0ad87813ebd6ce0f.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/1f/a9/da/1fa9dab4ecfbe733bd7b98180947b1aa.jpg

http://silaev-ag.ru/UserFiles/Image/pub/adler-9.gif

[uzn]

Perm continued:
http://planetguide.ru/eimage/2013/09/03/03135225a04517722.jpg

http://www.perm-animal-style.ru/wp-content/gallery/chelovekolosi/chelovekolosi-16.jpg

http://udmurt-history.ru/images/stories/images01/nyrgynda-bronze-metal-plate.jpg

http://atlas.ukhta-lib.ru/images/nature/ancient/ancient-06.jpg

http://www.kulturologia.ru/files/u1834/perm-animal-style-6.jpg

http://i75.beon.ru/86/0/2860086/49/120267849/permanimalstyle8.jpeg

http://slavyanskaya-kultura.ru/upload/wysiwyg/3bb4455b5b02acc4510b6fc4f0a377dc.jpg

http://travellingnorth.nl/onewebmedia/Finno-Ugrian%20amulet.jpg

[uzn]

Perm continued:

This one has an elongated Skull, but you know, Elk People ;)
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/b8/01/89/b801896307a6738b28d66ed0e2bfa46e--ancient-art-archaeology.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/ed/2a/9d/ed2a9d72251d964a39b9756687d7567c.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/51/1e/78/511e78e513ced59d7a2dc1744d1bd6bf.jpg

http://paranormal-news.ru/_nw/74/s86503447.jpg

http://paranormal-news.ru/_nw/74/s12816571.jpg

http://paranormal-news.ru/_nw/74/33526560.jpg

http://contents.i.sdska.ru/_i/news/c/regions/59/afisha/2013/11/exp18_7.jpg

https://rgdn.info/assets/uploads/images/photos/ee48e-holy-family-3.jpg

[uzn]

These things were worn around the Neck in Perm Russia. Official called "Sun Symbols".

http://www.perm-animal-style.ru/wp-content/gallery/solar/solar-symbol-1.jpg

http://www.perm-animal-style.ru/wp-content/gallery/solar/solar-symbol-2.jpg

http://www.perm-animal-style.ru/wp-content/gallery/solar/solar-symbol-3.jpg

http://www.perm-animal-style.ru/wp-content/gallery/solar/solar-symbol-4.jpg

http://www.perm-animal-style.ru/wp-content/gallery/solar/solar-symbol-5.jpg

http://www.perm-animal-style.ru/wp-content/gallery/solar/solar-symbols-6.jpg

http://www.perm-animal-style.ru/wp-content/gallery/solar/2015-09-01.jpg

http://www.perm-animal-style.ru/wp-content/gallery/solar/2015-09-02.jpg

http://www.perm-animal-style.ru/wp-content/gallery/solar/2015-09-03.jpg

[uzn]

http://www.perm-animal-style.ru/wp-content/gallery/solar/2015-09-04.jpg

More plates from Pern Russia:

http://www.perm-animal-style.ru/wp-content/gallery/birds/image_8.jpg

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Ragnar_Saage/publication/289498334/figure/fig4/AS:325739376332804@1454673727342/Fig-5-Plaquette-of-a-long-tailed-bird-of-prey-22-Note-the-head-of-a-human-behind-the.png

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Ragnar_Saage/publication/289498334/figure/fig1/AS:325739376332801@1454673727225/Fig-2-Iron-points-From-left-7-9-10-8-6-Photo-Tonno-Jonuks.png

Observe the strange head
https://i.pinimg.com/236x/67/34/38/673438e2b5d4906ed669e7eee91c4c65--boh-ethnic-jewelry.jpg

http://www.russia-ic.com/img/culture_art/animalstyle-3.jpg



One more interesting Artefacts from Siberia:
http://travellingnorth.nl/onewebmedia/Russian%20Siberian%20bronze%20ornitomorphic%20pendant%204.jpg

[uzn]

Just to finish with the Perm Culture. They found parts of the skin of one of these People. And they had quite similar tatoos compared to the above artefacts. Only the skin has been dated to be 2300 years old. So around 500 BC. The scematic sictures just show the tatoos they found intact with the skin. It could have been way more tatoos.

https://classconnection.s3.amazonaws.com/474/flashcards/881474/jpg/e3_2_6_early_farmers_tattooed_body-1-1428FE57CB917CC2BB0-thumb400.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/b9/56/a1/b956a112307357d4d91f412a376487e9--historical-tattoos-ancient-tattoo.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ff/30/dc/ff30dc4e28da7edd3e5baad305aa4c99.jpg

[uzn]

From the Voice of Russia:

300-million-year-old UFO tooth-wheel found in Russian city of Vladivostok

http://truehumanhistory.weebly.com/uploads/5/0/0/8/5008251/6024030_orig.jpg

Lighting the fire during a cold winter evening a resident of Vladivostok found a rail-shaped metal detail which was pressed in one of the pieces of coal that the man used to heat his home. Mesmerized by his discovery, the responsible citizen decided to seek help from the scientists of Primorye region. After the metal object was studied by the leading experts the man was shocked to learn about the assumed age of his discovery. The metal detail was supposedly 300 million years old and yet the scientists suggest that it was not created by nature but was rather manufactured by someone. The question of who might have made an aluminum gear in the dawn of time remains unanswered.

Nowadays, finding a strange artifact in coal is a relatively frequent occurrence. The first discovery of this sort was made in 1851 when the workers in one of the Massachusetts mines extracted a zinc silver-incrusted vase from a block of unmined coal which dated all the way back to the Cambrian era which was approximately 500 million years ago. Sixty one years later, American scientists from Oklahoma discovered an iron pot which was pressed into a piece of coal aged 312 million years old. Then, in 1974, an aluminum assembly part of unknown origin was found in a sandstone quarry in Romania. Reminiscent of a hammer or a support leg of a spacecraft “Apollo”, the piece dated back to the Jurassic era and could not have been manufactured by a human. All of these discoveries not only puzzled the experts but also undermined the most fundamental doctrines of modern science.

The metal detail which was recently found by Vladivostok resident is yet another discovery which perplexed the scientists. The coal in which the metal object was pressed was delivered to Primorye from Chernogorodskiy mines of Khakasia region. Knowing that the coal deposits of this region date 300 million years back, Russian experts inferred that the metal detail found in these deposits must be an age-mate of the coal.

When geologists broke the piece of coal in which the metal object was pressed into and spot-treated in with special chemical agents, it turned out that the metal detail was unusually light and soft. No more than seven centimeters long, the object was found to be composed of 98 percent aluminum and 2 percent magnesium. On the one hand, such an alloy stalled the scientists because nearly pure aluminum is very rarely found in nature. Thus, the detail was most definitely created artificially. On the other hand, however, when it became clear that the object was made from aluminum-magnesium alloy the experts quickly found an answer to the question of how a metal detail could withstand the ravages of time so well. The scientists explained that pure aluminum is increasingly prone to oxidization which contributes to the creation of a special layer protecting it from further corrosion. As a result, the metal detail made 98 percent from aluminum can endure not only high pressure but also heat and other severe natural conditions.
Another question that interests Russian scientists is whether the aluminum alloy is of Earthly origin. It is known from the study of meteorites that there exists extra-terrestrial aluminum-26 which subsequently breaks down to magnesium-26. The presence of 2 percent of magnesium in the alloy might well point to the alien origin of the aluminum detail. Nonetheless, further testing is needed to confirm this hypothesis.
The last property of the object that puzzled the scientists was its distinctive shape which was reminiscent of a modern tooth-wheel. It is hard to imagine that an object could take regular shape of a tooth-wheel with six identical ‘teeth’ naturally. Moreover, the intervals between the ‘teeth’ of the gear are curiously large in relation to the size of the ‘teeth’ themselves which might mean that the detail was a part of a complicated mechanism. Nowadays, such ‘spare parts’ are used in construction of microscopes and other mechanical appliances. This poses yet another unanswerable question to the modern scientists: how can the metal tooth-wheel be 300 million years old if the regular-shaped ‘wheel’ itself was created by man millions of years later.
After the discovery came public, conspirators were quick to dub it ‘a UFO tooth-wheel’. Russian scientists, however, do not jump to conclusions and will run further tests to learn more about the strange artifact.

Source:
https://sputniknews.com/voiceofrussia/2013_01_19/300-million-year-old-UFO-tooth-wheel-found-in-Russian-city-of-Vladivostok/

[Ewan]

http://static2.bigstockphoto.com/thumbs/9/3/1/large1500/139335497.jpg


That one is quite a curious image, I should say more curious.. these are not identations but a build-up. Very much like the type of limescale deposit you see on concrete abutments (under bridges and the like) which are formed by water run off over quite a period of time. These can form in as little as 20 years... (not 2 - 2.5 thousand - think stalgmites and stactites in caves).. and are, I think, caused by acidic water leaching calcium hydroxide out of the concrete.

You can see the shadows lie outside the design, as opposed to the engraved markings where shadows are quite clearly inside the design.

Regardless of how it was formed the other images are still curious. This..

https://earth-chronicles.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/095169482c98507ba5fb6159a01bf650.jpg

...doesn't really seem to indicate 2,000+ years of weathering - unless lower images are indeed the close-ups of that very same rockwall.

But yeah, rockets man! Dividing the above pic into a 10x10 grid it looks like a plane at 6,6 or 6,7. :)

[Hervé]

[...]... these are not identations but a build-up.... [...]
Looks like your mind is playing a pareidolia trick on you... so, time to educate your mind by switching imagining the sun light coming from upper right to imagining the sun light coming from upper left... see?

[uzn]

...doesn't really seem to indicate 2,000+ years of weathering - unless lower images are indeed the close-ups of that very same rockwall.



Thas picture was just to illustrate typical petroglyphs in the Siberian Altai Mountains, the below petroglyphs are not found on this mountainside. I dont regard them petroglyphs as relevant or important. Hopefully funny, maybe interesting.

I leave you with a beautiful picture of a siberian shaman for now
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/db/7b/30/db7b304590ec2132a2b84e1f37685de6--kazakhstan-silk-road.jpg

[Ewan]

[...]... these are not identations but a build-up.... [...]
Looks like your mind is playing a pareidolia trick on you... so, time to educate your mind by switching imagining the sun light coming from upper right to imagining the sun light coming from upper left... see?

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about....

https://www.sott.net/image/s18/370498/full/Capture.jpg

...(exits stage left, blushing furiously).

[Hervé]

[...]... these are not identations but a build-up.... [...]
Looks like your mind is playing a pareidolia trick on you... so, time to educate your mind by switching imagining the sun light coming from upper right to imagining the sun light coming from upper left... see?

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about....
[...]
All right, the picture commented on is an actual 3D object which can be reconstructed in one's mind (pareidolia) either as gouged grooves on a flat, smoothed, polished surface (glacial abrasion) or as built up deposits similar to calcite deposits.

All depends on how the mind interprets the shadows position in the picture (2D rendering of an actual, real 3D object) and the location of the light source generating them (sun):


sun in upper right corner of picture ===> deposit built up



sun in upper left corner of picture ===> grooves

The Necker cube is different in that it is a 2D graphic which the mind reconstruct (perception) as a 3D object in 2 possible ways... which way is the correct one would be dispelled by an actual picture of an actual 3D cube.

This is not and actual "optical illusion" per se as it is not one's optical gears that are being fooled, but a "perception illusion" since it is one's mind that's being tricked one way or the other.

[uzn]

Tombs of the Genii at the river Kora in soviet Turkestan have been called The Mother of all Megaliths.

This Sketch of these five Megaliths was included in the Book The early Dawn of Civilization. Unfortunatly I just were able to find this Version of the Sketch (somebody put some bars and a tree on it).
http://www.ufoforum.it/public/data/Thethirdeye/201479192444_n3tp.jpg
The Sketch was made 1876.

Here a painted interpretation of above Sketch
http://68.media.tumblr.com/bb737f8e85131502fed3d8ec1e515290/tumblr_n1rbstWH8u1s4dksfo1_400.jpg


The sketch portrays the Tombs of the Genii, as they appeared circa 1876. These towering standing stones were -- and perhaps still are -- located on the Kora River in what was Soviet Turkestan, Siberia. When you learn of their sizes, you'll realize that these lithic monsters must still be there, because modern machinery would be taxed to nudge them.
The largest of these standing stones rises 75 feet above ground level and probably penetrates 12 feet below. Its weight is in the neighborhood of 3,800 tons! This is more than 10 times the weight of Er Grah, the largest standing stone in Brittany and more than twice the size of the massive Trilithon still languishing in its quarry at Baalbek, Lebanon. This latter stone is routinely claimed to be the largest dressed monolith in the world. It isn't!
While the Siberian monolith is probably more recent than the Baalbek stone and not as finely finished, it is an unparalleled example of stone quarrying, transportation, and erection. The stones of the Great Pyramid and those Easter Island statues are puny in comparison. Who erected these giant megaliths and how did they wrestle them into place?
(Howard, John Eliot; "The Early Dawn of Civilization...," Victoria Institute, Journal of the Transactions, 9:239, 1876. Cr. E. von Fange)

I looked for pictures of these Monoliths but could not find any. Either they are out of sight or have been destroyed.

Source:
http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf131/sf131p02.htm

There is another account of a sighting of these Monoliths (Tombs of the Genii)by Thomas Witlam Atkinson:


Recently I posted a story regarding super-megaliths being seen and recorded in the Gora Valley of southern Kazakhstan. Some questioned their reality. But the story is true. I can confirm they were encountered by British explorer Thomas Witlam Atkinson (1799–1861), in the company of local men, during his celebrated journey through Siberia in the 1850s. There were five standing monoliths, with a sixth horizontal on the ground. They were rectilinear in shape and the size of a fair sized English church tower. Close by was a large stone tumuli (kurgan). Locals saw them as marking the tombs of Genii, with the kurgan being the alleged tomb of a local chief who had dared to enter the valley after the burial of the genii.

The fact that Atkinson was an architect, stonemason and accomplished painter means that his description and detailed illustration of the monoliths are most assuredly accurate. The pressing questions are a) are they natural or artificial constructions (i.e. were they upended intentionally like a regular standing stone), and b) if they do exist, why in this digital age of global communication has no one ever reported their existence in modern times?

Without these questions being answered, the whole matter can go no further. Personally I have never seen monoliths upended through the forces of nature like this anywhere in the world, and can think of no geological process that would do this only to five monoliths all placed in close proximity, with no evidence of similar activity anywhere else in the world. As I mentioned before, if there was enough interest, I would organise an exploratory tour out there. So if you are interested, let me know and I will see what we can arrange.

Thomas Witlam Atkinson's biography can be found here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Witlam_Atkinson

Thomas Witlam Atkinson (1799–1861)
https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/1970463_728755660488052_2098266078_n.jpg?oh=760bcee28c1b0c6cca6520cce8344495&oe=5A13AFB5

Map of celebrated journeys across the Central Asian continent, including that of Thomas Witlam Atkinson:
https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/s720x720/1796053_728756433821308_216099170_o.jpg?oh=1b71fd6b2927b747a0c293d5ebee4530&oe=5A4C9213

Source:
https://www.facebook.com/notes/andrew-collins/the-super-megaliths-in-the-gora-valley-southern-kazakhstan-by-andrew-collins/810170392331164/

[Ewan]

[...]... these are not identations but a build-up.... [...]
Looks like your mind is playing a pareidolia trick on you... so, time to educate your mind by switching imagining the sun light coming from upper right to imagining the sun light coming from upper left... see?

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about....
[...]
All right, the picture commented on is an actual 3D object which can be reconstructed in one's mind (pareidolia) either as gouged grooves on a flat, smoothed, polished surface (glacial abrasion) or as built up deposits similar to calcite deposits.

All depends on how the mind interprets the shadows position in the picture (2D rendering of an actual, real 3D object) and the location of the light source generating them (sun):


sun in upper right corner of picture ===> deposit built up



sun in upper left corner of picture ===> grooves

The Necker cube is different in that it is a 2D graphic which the mind reconstruct (perception) as a 3D object in 2 possible ways... which way is the correct one would be dispelled by an actual picture of an actual 3D cube.

This is not and actual "optical illusion" per se as it is not one's optical gears that are being fooled, but a "perception illusion" since it is one's mind that's being tricked one way or the other.

You trimmed my post a little short. The .... was followed later by another little series of dots, thereby indicating a continuation of the preceding, as such ...(exits stage left, blushing furiously).
The first part of the sentence was like a petulant protest by way of defence, followed by self-deprecating humour to indicate it was not a serious statement. I guess lost in translation applies?

For what its worth, as I responded to the first quote, waiting for the page to load, that actual photo stopped in front of me and I could clearly see it was indentations. There was a momentary feeling of dismay at my mistake then an interesting 30 seconds or so as I tried to see it the same way as yesterday. I found it quite difficult to flip the views, hence posting the necker cube as a much simpler exercise of the same type phenomenon and by way of saying I understood despite my protestation to the contrary.

Jokes don't really work if you have to explain them. :)

[Foxie Loxie]

Got'cha.......:ROFL:

[Hervé]

[...]
Jokes don't really work if you have to explain them. :)
Right... and, when in doubt, take Poe's law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law) into account... we have many, many guest readers...

[uzn]

Scythian gold in The Museum of Russian Art
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3e/db/13/3edb1335b1060f54e890ef68827f664f.jpg

[uzn]

The oldest and highest wooden statue in the world.
Scientists close to precise dating of the Shigir Idol, twice as ancient as the Egyptian Pyramids (after conventional dating).

Meet the Shigir Idol.

The Shigir Idol (Russian: Шигирский идол), is the most ancient wooden sculpture in the world, made during the Mesolithic period and was carved around 11,000 years ago. It is displayed in the Sverdlovsk Regional Museum of Local Lore in Yekaterinburg, Russia.

The idol was discovered on January 24, 1894 at a depth of 4 m (13 ft) in the peat bog of Shigir, on the eastern slope of the Middle Urals, approximately 100 km (62 mi) from Yekaterinburg. Investigations in this area had begun 40 years earlier after the discovery of a variety of prehistoric objects in an open-air gold mine.
It was extracted in several parts; professor D. I. Lobanov combined the main fragments to reconstitute a sculpture 2.80 m (9 ft 2 in) high.
In 1914, archaeologist Vladimir Tolmachev (ru) proposed a variant of this reconstruction by integrating the unused fragments. The reconstruction suggested that the original height of the statue was 5.3 metres.
Some of these fragments were later lost, so only Tolmachev's drawings of them remain.

The radiocarbon dating carried out by G. I. Zajtseva of the Institute of the History for the Material Culture (ru) in Saint-Petersburg, confirmed by the Geological Institute of Russian Academy of Sciences in Moscow, gave an age of 9,500 years. A later German analysis gave an age of 11,000 years. It is the most ancient known wooden sculpture of its kind in the world.
(Wikipedia)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/72/%D0%91%D0%BE%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%88%D0%BE%D0%B9_%D1%88% D0%B8%D0%B3%D0%B8%D1%80%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D 0%B8%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%BB.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/60/Shigir_idol.jpg

Siberian Times article:
Is this the world's oldest secret code?
http://siberiantimes.com/science/casestudy/features/is-this-the-worlds-oldest-secret-code/

http://siberiantimes.com/science/casestudy/features/is-this-the-worlds-oldest-secret-code/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7xT6DI3YbM

http://siberiantimes.com/upload/information_system_26/1/7/3/item_1736/information_items_1736.jpg

The Shigir Idol is twice as old as the Pyramids and Stonehenge - and is by far the oldest wooden structure in the world.
Even more mysteriously, it is covered in what experts describe as ‘encrypted code’ - a message from a lost civilisation.
Professor Mikhail Zhilin of the Russian Academy of Sciences’ Institute of Archeology said: ‘The ornament is covered with nothing but encrypted information. People were passing on knowledge with the help of the Idol.’
Russian experts think that the strange carvings may contain a belief system, the equivalent of the Bible’s Genesis.
That means the sculpture dates from the very beginning of the Holocene epoch - the era when man rose to dominate the world.’

https://www.realmofhistory.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/shigir-idol-worlds-oldest-wooden-statue_2.jpg

https://www.realmofhistory.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/shigir-idol-worlds-oldest-wooden-statue_1.jpg

http://www.ancient-origins.net/sites/default/files/field/image/Shigir-Idol.jpg

[uzn]

a good article about the Okunev Culture of Khakassia. I already posted several standing stones and engravings in earlier posts.

Okunev sculptures – the mystery of Khakassia

Imagine yourself in the front of a stone statue reaching a height of 1 to 3.5 meters. There’s a huge mask on the top, as well as ancient animals and strange symbols around. These monuments are in the prairies and meadows of Khakassia. Overlooking the landscape, they are visible from everywhere. The most famous of these are in the museums today—specifically The State Hermitage in St. Petersburg, Minusinsk and Abakan museums. In ancient times they could be seen from the burial mounds and near to lakes.

The history of discovery

In the 18th century members of the expedition of the Russian Academy of Sciences found stone sculptures at Lake Shira. They described the scene of the ancient shamans who performed shamanistic rituals. The scientists suggested that the stele was much older than people who offered worship to it. In the 19th century, stone idols were thoroughly researched. Because of the lack of textual sources, scientists searched for analogies in other cultures. Statue hats were compared with medieval Mongolian caps. Later on the parallels were expanded: masks were compared with petroglyphs of the Amur river. Additionally, relief on the stone was compared with ritual body coloring in Eskimo and Indian cultures. It’s believed that these steles are like a prayer to the god of that location—a god expressed in the figure.

http://toururu.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/2205025_ok.jpg
Okunev statue from Ust Abakan region. 220x50x25 centimeters. Abakan museum.

Is it a sculpture or not?

This is not a sculpture, although it would seem that it is because of the hewn shoulders & neck in the stone. It’s not simply a relief, as the drawing is a part of the stone figure. The scientists have not agreed what exactly is in front of them or what kind of art these stone steles are. They have therefore taken a different approach to analysing this phenomenon. They have chosen a special name: stone steles, or ‘Stone women’.

Space and time

In the 1960s these statues were connected to the independent archaeological culture of Okunevskaya (2 — 1 000 BC). Famous Khakassian archaeologist, Kyzlasov, discovered solar symbols as a significant part of Khakassian ancient art, which has since formed a part of the flag and the emblem of the Khakassian republic.

http://toururu.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/statue_ok.jpg
Okunev statue from Kopensky mound. Abakan museum.

Each statue is inscribed in space in her own way. Draw a circle around the figure and pay attention to how the pattern changes. It follows a person, some sections & curves disappear, while others appear from a different view. Most likely this technique reflects a special ritual and mythological sense, and says in a special language something that us modern people fail to understand. Harmony and movements, internal and external, Cosmos and human; all merged into stone statues.

What are these statues about?

All sculptures have a common design & composition. But despite this, they are extremely varied.
The general pattern: the mask with transverse stripes, the complex relief in the middle of a statue, and a solar symbol. This represents a demonic creature or a shaman from mythological stories. This pattern was a part of the representation of the ancient people from the model of world in which people used to live.
Stone women: the phenomenon has no analogues anywhere in the world. Until now, scientists have set out different versions of the origin of these monuments, trying to uncover the meaning of the images. They are looking for similar artefacts around the world, but are yet to find any.

http://toururu.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/girl.jpg
280x50x35 centimeters. Minusinsk museum.

Source:
http://toururu.com/okunev-sculptures-mystery-of-khakassia/

[uzn]

some more Okunev Steles.


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/08/19/16/3765A7E000000578-3749106-image-a-74_1471621879966.jpg

http://elbilge.ucoz.com/_ph/29/127843214.jpg

http://elbilge.ucoz.com/_ph/29/217459191.jpg

http://elbilge.ucoz.com/_ph/29/473126542.jpg

http://historylib.org/historybooks/Igor-Kolomiytsev_Narod-nevidimka/1364128076_08fc.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-6aw3-Tcx2cY/UuueYjErMwI/AAAAAAAABS8/LLWFEcT-O_s/s1600/min17.png

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-VbNaMjw3Oj0/UuuecFVIlLI/AAAAAAAABTE/IUMF1depeCE/s1600/min19.png

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-5grpmAH43VY/UuugRWSg7uI/AAAAAAAABUE/WzpCS1L2F30/s1600/min6.png

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-0bsIK9Ed-uc/UuucnVzdrfI/AAAAAAAABR4/vhSuX972Ry0/s1600/min10.png

[uzn]

Here some of their more often used Symbols:
http://elbilge.ucoz.com/_ph/25/957824981.gif

https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/7-caf19f4def.jpg

https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/8-c33502d675.png

https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/10-826b100eab.jpg

https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/11-58479c7162.jpg

https://html2-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/14-89e658cc9b.jpg

https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/15-61734c4778.jpg

https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/16-5d35a75119.jpg

https://html2-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/17-dcd6cbd928.jpg

[uzn]

https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/18-1588107384.png

https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/19-5e5968e5a5.jpg

https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/20-e463159f0c.jpg

https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/21-bf6a588d4c.jpg

https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/22-57bd8d13b2.jpg

https://html2-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/24-2958f94918.jpg

https://html2-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/25-bdca03df8a.png

https://html2-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/53-e5a5108185.png

https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/60-6ccefd789e.png

[uzn]

https://html2-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/62-1e4745832b.jpg

https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/63-4dcce3118a.jpg

https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/74-9416d5b929.jpg

https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/75-09d5aeea53.png

https://html2-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/76-8b92f6428a.jpg

https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/77-d4a7fdd0a7.jpg

https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/81-4b3b2206bb.jpg

https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/85-84cdb5819e.jpg

https://html2-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/87-e9c318d21b.jpg

[uzn]

https://html2-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/95-c3e2cfd234.jpg

https://html2-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/94-e050b79f00.jpg

https://html2-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/99-3624023218.jpg

https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/98-9b0a3ec8bd.jpg

https://html2-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/112-71509a2336.jpg

https://html2-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/113-316a806540.jpg

https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/116-395a09d3e7.jpg

https://html2-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/120-dabf2b2e0b.jpg

https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/126-d9622a2759.jpg

[uzn]

https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/131-feb20d41fc.jpg

https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/147-46beb136a8.jpg

https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/148-a440e03237.jpg

https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/149-6df76bd52f.jpg

https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/150-5670722bf9.jpg

https://html2-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/151-94c46c012b.jpg

https://html2-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/156-8e7d9cfa84.jpg

https://html2-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/157-2e936a315c.jpg

https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/158-8bc811e35f.jpg

[uzn]

https://html2-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/159-b606b9c921.jpg

https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/161-538361f978.jpg

https://html2-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/162-f7f993c566.jpg

There are also gravings of stange creatures:
https://html2-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/71-dd32838058.jpg

https://html2-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/107-e2d305d6a3.jpg

https://html2-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/72-c01c4a882d.jpg

https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/69-2037919e1f.jpg




...and a cool siberian Shaman ;)
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/dd/3b/80/dd3b80d66269c5ab567f87928eff086e.jpg

[Bill Ryan]

Feedback from a reader here! :)

I'd love to see more of the Russian (and Asian) megaliths. Meaning, the impossibly huge stones that have apparently been carved and somehow moved. I know that some have been recently discovered, I believe in the Caucasus (did I get that right?), and I'd imagine that investigations have been continuing.

:star:

[Billy]

There are also gravings of stange creatures:
https://html2-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/71-dd32838058.jpg

https://html2-f.scribdassets.com/4ucdd89zi81v7eu4/images/107-e2d305d6a3.jpg

Wow, you could have knocked me down with a feather when I saw those strange creatures.
This is from my cave painting thread after my trip to India in 2015.

Seen here. Scroll down the page to view.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?89076-5-000yr-old-cave-painting-of-alien-craft-in-Hampi-India./page3

3619936200

My artist impression of what I saw.
3620136202

[uzn]

Wow, you could have knocked me down with a feather when I saw those strange creatures.
This is from my cave painting thread after my trip to India in 2015.



Thanks, very interesting. I always wonder why these cavepainters paint sometimes very stange things. Maybe it was like: Here kid look at our fabulus hunting scenes, and these were the animals we ate. And by the way over there are the Monsters from the next valley to the right and over there are the stange people that come down at night from the sky. ;)

[uzn]

Now we go back quite a bit to about 26000 years ago.
These Siberians have no name but the place where they were found. The places are Mal'ta and Buret' in Siberia.
So they call them the Mal'ta–Buret' culture.

Wikipedia is very shortcomming:

The Mal'ta–Buret' culture is an archaeological culture of the Upper Paleolithic (c. 24,000 to 15,000 BP) on the upper Angara River in the area west of Lake Baikal in the Irkutsk Oblast, Siberia, Russian Federation. The type sites are named for the villages of Mal'ta (Мальта), Usolsky District and Buret' (Буреть), Bokhansky District (both in Irkutsk Oblast).

Much of what is known about Mal'ta comes from the Russian archaeologist Mikhail Gerasimov. Better known later for his contribution to the branch of anthropology known as forensic facial reconstruction, Gerasimov made revolutionary discoveries when he excavated Mal'ta in 1927. Until his findings, the Upper Paleolithic societies of Northern Asia were virtually unknown. Over the remainder of his career Gerasimov twice more visited Mal'ta to excavate and research the site.


http://donsmaps.com/images24/maltaburetbaikalmap.jpg

http://donsmaps.com/images24/maltamap2.jpg
Map showing the Mal'ta site beside the river Belaya, and the Buret' site about 15 km away beside the Angara River, which flows from North to South in this satellite photo.

Remember when you look at the stuff, that´s up to 26000 years old (officially). That´s in a time when people were supposed to throw sticks at Mammuts and smear paint on walls in caves.

Why I bring this up is that they have found engravings, figurines, sophisticated tools and symbols. These are well worth a look or two.

First let´s look at the most known object from this excacation: the Venus of Mal'ta (don´t get confused with Malta-Gibraltar here)
I have no clue why archeologists whenever they find a feminine figure say: It´s the Venus of this and that? Beats me.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/Mal%27ta_%28venus_figurine%29.gif

http://www.visual-arts-cork.com/images-art/malta-venus.jpg
That´s not that unusual for europe and russia at that time.

Gerasimov with his colleagues in archaeology during the excavations at Mal'ta, 1957 and 1958.
http://donsmaps.com/images11/malta0203.jpg

http://donsmaps.com/images11/malta0204.jpg

http://donsmaps.com/images25/stonecirclehut.jpg
Circular dwelling made with a stone wall base, from Mal'ta, Siberia.

http://donsmaps.com/images34/siberianvenus4.jpg

http://donsmaps.com/images25/maltaimg_1531.jpg

[uzn]

http://donsmaps.com/images25/maltaimg_1530.jpg

http://donsmaps.com/images24/malta3front.jpg
Mal'ta, Height 42 mm, Width 8 mm

http://donsmaps.com/images31/ribbedvenus.jpg

http://donsmaps.com/images31/pockmarkedvenus.jpg
Height 44 mm.

http://donsmaps.com/images31/mammothontusk.jpg
Fragment of a mammoth tusk showing a mammoth.
Mammoth tusk; carved, polished and engraved. 83 x 32 mm
Maltinsko-buretskaya Culture. 23 000 - 19 000 BP
Malta Site (Excavations of M.M. Gerasimov, 1928-1930), Siberia, the River Belaya, near Irkutsk, Russia

http://donsmaps.com/images25/birdsmalta.jpg
They say these are birdcarvings. With the left one I am not so sure.

http://donsmaps.com/images31/birdmalta.jpg

Now the first things that seem a bit strange. The Archeologists say these are stylised representations of birds. Some might look somewhat like birds but many don´t for me. And they made quite a lot of them.

Found during the excavations of 1956 - 1957, in the 'male habitat' areas, to the right of the fireplaces.
They are made of mammoth ivory and, although their dimensions are unequal - the largest measuring 150 mm, and the smallest 50 mm, they are, by their form and style, remarkably homogeneous. The head has an irregular rhomboid outline, pointed upward and reminiscent, both in its form and how it connects to the neck, of the head of a snake. It carries no figurative detail.

http://donsmaps.com/images11/malta0207.jpg

http://donsmaps.com/images36/img_6786birdnumber2.jpg

[uzn]

http://donsmaps.com/images31/091_hermitage_museum_2014.jpg

http://donsmaps.com/images24/maltahermitagebirds2.jpg
Mammoth tusk; carved. Heights 117, 103, 100 mm.
Maltinsko-buretskaya Culture. 23 000 - 19 000 BP
Malta Site (Excavations of M.M. Gerasimov, 1928-1930), Siberia, the River Belaya, near Irkutsk, Russia
?
http://donsmaps.com/images31/083_hermitage_museum_2014.jpg

Maybe for time measurement:
http://donsmaps.com/images31/082_hermitage_museum_2014.jpg

This is an odd object, somewhere between a spoon and a venus figure.
http://donsmaps.com/images31/084_hermitage_museum_2014.jpg

Plate, or buckle, magic token for the shaman?
http://donsmaps.com/images26/thehermitage183.jpg

A nice Necklace with an interesting thing on it. Galaxy? Ufo? Or just a bone to show the animals that he/her meant business?
http://donsmaps.com/images24/maltabracelet.jpg

http://donsmaps.com/images26/thehermitage181.jpg

http://donsmaps.com/images26/thehermitage185.jpg

[uzn]

That´s a sketch of the original excavation site, no photos.
http://donsmaps.com/images29/maltaboyposition.jpg

http://www.anthropark.wz.cz/postgravet6.JPG

These next plate meight be some sort of calendar. We see spirals all over earth from ancient people.

http://donsmaps.com/images31/spiralholeplaque.jpg

This could be snakes or sperm ?

http://greywolf.druidry.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/maltaspiralplateback.jpg
Mammoth tusk; carved, polished and engraved. 138 x 81 mm.
Mal'ta Site (excavations by M.M. Gerasimov, 1928-1930), Siberia, the River Belaya, near Irkutsk, Russia
Maltinsko-buretskaya Culture. 23 000 - 19 000 BP.

http://www.proza.ru/pics/2010/12/22/1475.jpg

http://www.anthropark.wz.cz/postgravet4.JPG

http://donsmaps.com/images26/thehermitage193.jpg
This tool from a reindeer-hunter settlement at Mal'ta in Siberia had a flint blade set into a reindeer antler handle. This was uncovered during the excavation of 1956, and is an extremely rare find.

http://donsmaps.com/images24/kashim.jpg
Section of a house in Siberia, possibly similar to those at Buret', showing the corridor to the outside, and the fact that there were two modes of use, one for summer, and the other for winter, which cut down on the loss of heat from the building.

[uzn]

Here is some russian research about the "Spiral plate" and how it is an exact calendar. And some other things found there related to timetracking. I´ll post the link below but it´s in russian. The pictures bring the idea across quite well.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Zu0tDx9MvtY/UkHmkqG8KzI/AAAAAAAAA8I/eYxh9ausdwQ/s1600/20.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-tVJa5GEwpfI/UkHmoRX5tJI/AAAAAAAAA8Q/X7gF82824tQ/s1600/21.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-N4P6L-xJSzU/UkHmtU7wCXI/AAAAAAAAA8Y/rxS727If50w/s1600/22.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-XqUk4V8MLSA/Ukb_CLLfHgI/AAAAAAAAA84/USIpV3wv7XM/s1600/24.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-DJl_Qj5w7m8/UkVi-JOSoDI/AAAAAAAAA8k/3Ep10Arv7d8/s1600/25.jpg

The russian link:
http://bekshok.blogspot.de/2013/09/blog-post.html

This here is from the Wolfcamp at Mezin roundabout 15000 BC.
http://donsmaps.com/images25/mezinabracelets.jpg

[avid]

Amazing symmetry, logic defies a 'natural' explanation, thank you, we have definitely been 'pre-owned' by others who were obviously much more technologically advanced than us now.

[Tintin]

http://donsmaps.com/images25/maltaimg_1530.jpg

http://donsmaps.com/images24/malta3front.jpg
Mal'ta, Height 42 mm, Width 8 mm

http://donsmaps.com/images31/ribbedvenus.jpg

http://donsmaps.com/images31/pockmarkedvenus.jpg
Height 44 mm.

http://donsmaps.com/images31/mammothontusk.jpg
Fragment of a mammoth tusk showing a mammoth.
Mammoth tusk; carved, polished and engraved. 83 x 32 mm
Maltinsko-buretskaya Culture. 23 000 - 19 000 BP
Malta Site (Excavations of M.M. Gerasimov, 1928-1930), Siberia, the River Belaya, near Irkutsk, Russia

http://donsmaps.com/images25/birdsmalta.jpg
They say these are birdcarvings. With the left one I am not so sure.

http://donsmaps.com/images31/birdmalta.jpg

Now the first things that seem a bit strange. The Archeologists say these are stylised representations of birds. Some might look somewhat like birds but many don´t for me. And they made quite a lot of them.

Found during the excavations of 1956 - 1957, in the 'male habitat' areas, to the right of the fireplaces.
They are made of mammoth ivory and, although their dimensions are unequal - the largest measuring 150 mm, and the smallest 50 mm, they are, by their form and style, remarkably homogeneous. The head has an irregular rhomboid outline, pointed upward and reminiscent, both in its form and how it connects to the neck, of the head of a snake. It carries no figurative detail.

http://donsmaps.com/images11/malta0207.jpg

http://donsmaps.com/images36/img_6786birdnumber2.jpg

The last image here reminds me a little of what was thought to be an obstetric implement from Klaus Dona's equally remarkable catalogue of finds. This is a truly fantastic thread going on here. Are these images to be made available, or, already available maybe, in the Avalon Library?

[uzn]

Are these images to be made available, or, already available maybe, in the Avalon Library?

Don´t think so. But would be great. In the meantime I would advice everybody that is interested in the ancient world to copy the pictures locally. Since some of them are only up on one site or on one Pinterest account and could go down eventually.

[Morbid]

These things were worn around the Neck in Perm Russia. Official called "Sun Symbols".

http://www.perm-animal-style.ru/wp-content/gallery/solar/solar-symbol-1.jpg

http://www.perm-animal-style.ru/wp-content/gallery/solar/solar-symbol-2.jpg

http://www.perm-animal-style.ru/wp-content/gallery/solar/solar-symbol-3.jpg

http://www.perm-animal-style.ru/wp-content/gallery/solar/solar-symbol-4.jpg

http://www.perm-animal-style.ru/wp-content/gallery/solar/solar-symbol-5.jpg

http://www.perm-animal-style.ru/wp-content/gallery/solar/solar-symbols-6.jpg

http://www.perm-animal-style.ru/wp-content/gallery/solar/2015-09-01.jpg

http://www.perm-animal-style.ru/wp-content/gallery/solar/2015-09-02.jpg

http://www.perm-animal-style.ru/wp-content/gallery/solar/2015-09-03.jpg

these "sun" symbols resemble to the theory described in this documentary:

t7EAlTcZFwY

according to this, our sun might used to look quite different to how its being observed today.

[Morbid]

I find some of them just a bit to perfect to be comforting ;)


Lets draw the attention to the biggest Cave complex in Georgia. It´s basically a City in a mountain. In the middle ages an earthquake took down a lot of the fasade.
It´s called City Cave Vardzia. The History is very foggy. Mainstream Archeologists want to give the ehole credit to some middle aged Monks.
Wikipedia is not so sure:
Soviet-era excavations have shown that the area of Vardzia was inhabited during the Bronze Age and indicated the reach of Trialeti culture.
(Yeah thanks Wikipedia, that leaves us with the typical guess of about 3000 -1000 BC).

But that´s about it. Well of course these caves are ancient and have been reutilized in the middle ages as a Monostary. And they did some serious rechisseling and added a basilika in there. But the old smell and feel is all in there:
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/gA2eB9V50nc/maxresdefault.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/00/A._Roinashvili._0306_-_Vardzia.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/A._Roinashvili._0302_-_Vardzia.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ac/A._Roinashvili._0305_-_Vardzia.jpg

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-6Ih7Reo0GR8/U0lsSV2MgvI/AAAAAAAAuS8/HO5fU5ZQjWc/s1600/vardzia+georgia+18.jpg

http://www.caucasianchallenge.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/5531011055_75e339cd4f_z.jpg


That is what the Monks used it for:
The greater Vardzia area includes also the early eleventh-century church at Zeda Vardzia and the tenth- to twelfth-century rock village and cave churches of Ananauri. The main lower site was carved from the cliff's central stratum of tufaceous breccia at an elevation of thirteen hundred metres above sea level. It is divided into an eastern and a western part by the Church of the Dormition. In the eastern part of the complex are seventy-nine separate cave dwellings, in eight tiers and with a total of 242 rooms, including six chapels, "Tamar's Room", a meeting room, reception chamber, pharmacy, and twenty-five wine cellars; 185 wine jars sunk into the floor document the importance of viticulture to the monastic economy. In the western part, between the bell tower and the main church, are a further forty houses, in thirteen tiers and with a total of 165 rooms, including six chapels, a refectory with a bakery, other ovens for baking bread, and a forge. Beyond the bell tower the complex rises to nineteen tiers, with steps leading to a cemetery. Infrastructure includes access tunnels, water facilities, and provision for defence

this was definitely the most beautiful site i have ever seen. located on the borderland with turkey. its believed that before the earthquake in twelth century that exposed the city there were only handful of entrances/exits - most of them hidden. the idea was to remain autonomous during siege. there is water well inside so once grain & sheep taken in, they could easily survive for upto a year. highly recommend traveling georgia - rent good off roader to visit less touristic sites. also there is mestia & ushguli (highest settlement in europe):

https://s-ec.bstatic.com/images/hotel/max1024x768/535/53595806.jpg

https://s-ec.bstatic.com/data/xphoto/max1024x768/106/10614554.jpg

[Morbid]

here is another famous site in ural mountains - geographical border between europe & asia.

https://www.booksfact.com/images/2016/01/ural-megalithic-structures.jpg

[uzn]

here is another famous site in ural mountains - geographical border between europe & asia.

https://www.booksfact.com/images/2016/01/ural-megalithic-structures.jpg

They are beautiful, I did not include them because they can be of natural origin. But surely were sacret for the ancient People.

Pillars of weathering Man-Pupu-Ner or the Seven Strong Men Rock Formations of the Komi Republic are a set of 7 gigantic abnormally shaped stone pillars located north of the Ural mountains in the Troitsko-Pechorsky District of the Komi Republic. These monoliths are real Stone wonders of Russia, around 30 to 42 m high.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-QXxyQ4xDZrI/WBCq7X_PCpI/AAAAAAAACKo/3yfxgUTpuVoaCch7wQUugmkmEdf-bw05QCK4B/s1600/11.JPG

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-RjMRcuYCSfI/WBCrANg0TxI/AAAAAAAACKw/_X6pP4zx21kuwYLxrtuZJEeZbsuq0WDTgCK4B/s1600/8e5c1b82dbf6fcb5ad699b760a5f09b8.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ra7rfJAMMis/WBCqX5YL32I/AAAAAAAACJ8/HQeCbGRvAGcavlSUgvyDT_-Aa1r3jVgtQCK4B/s1600/VhjZFif.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/e2/d7/a8/e2d7a8c171c7d094a85313ce8379e1e1.jpg

https://photorator.com/photos/images/manpupuner-rock-formations-komi-republic-russia-by-sergei-makurin-60699.jpg

https://photorator.com/photos/images/manpupuner-rocks-north-ural-mountains-russia--31897.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b3/c4/08/b3c408cd9041365d8350b2f297680380.jpg

[uzn]

Strange (melted looking) stone found in chalk mine, 7 km away from Voronezh, russia

http://www.megaliths.org/photos/1500646548_0.png

http://www.megaliths.org/photos/1466108104_1.jpg

Source:
http://www.megaliths.org/view/915

This is a case for Herve. Natural?

[uzn]

Meet the oldest found Geoglyph on this Earth, the "Elk (Moose)"-Geoglyph. (Geoglyph=image that can be seen from the sky)
The giant geoglyph, along with the megaliths, were constructed millennia before Peru's Nazca Lines and England Horse and People Geoglyths, a testament to the building progess of an ancient prehistoric culture in the Ural Mountains.

https://img.purch.com/h/1400/aHR0cDovL3d3dy5saXZlc2NpZW5jZS5jb20vaW1hZ2VzL2kvMDAwLzAzMS85Njgvb3JpZ2luYWwvMS1SdXNzaWEtZ2VvZ2x5cGgu anBn

from the Siberian Times:
By Anna Liesowska
Children from lost civilisation 'helped build' geoglyph some 6,000 years ago
(as a wild Theory I prefer that Dwarfs, Greys or Little People did it to attract the attention of the spacefaring "Elk-people" ;))

Remarkable new details about giant moose released as archaeologists confirm stone structure is world's oldest.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/11/04/1415106273369_wps_34_The_moose_17_google_earth.jpg

Children were involved in the construction of a geoglyph in the Urals which was only discovered thanks to images taken from space. It predates Peru's famous Nazca Lines by thousands of years, archaeologists have announced. But they are no nearer answering why ancient man made it, nor can they yet fathom which group built the geoglyph; archeological traces found so far in the area do not show a culture with sufficient refinement. 
Was it to impress the gods or did it have some other purpose?
Experts have been examining the giant moose-shaped stone structure since it was discovered in 2011 and have now confirmed it is the world's oldest.
Located near Lake Zyuratkul in the Ural Mountains, it stretches for about 275 metres and depicts an animal with four legs, antlers and a long muzzle.
Two years ago researchers said they estimated the site could date back as far as 6,000BC based on the style of the stone-working, called lithic chipping.
Now new details about the geoglyph have been released as archaeologists revealed it was most likely created between 3,000 and 4,000BC.
The geoglyph was found in the Zyuratkul National Park, on terrace at an altitude of 860 metres.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d4/Geoglyth2.jpg
There are stones layed in the Geoglyph.

Perhaps the most interesting development is that tools found at the site indicate it was worked on assiduously by children as well as adults in a large-scale community accomplishment. Of 155 tools found beside the geoglyph, the majority were used for digging or breaking stones.
Stanislav Grigoryev, a senior researcher from the Chelyabinsk History and Archaeology Institute, said: 'Judging by the different sizes of the tools - from 17cm-long and weighing about three kilograms to some being just two centimetres - we can assume they were used by both adults and children. We can also assume it means that everyone participated in creating the moose.
'But it was not a kind of slave labour of children. They were involved to share common values, to join something important to all the people.'
The moose was discovered by chance in 2011 by local researcher Alexander Shestakov after he spotted it trawling through satellite images from Google Earth.
He alerted archaeologists, who sent out a hydroplane and paraglider to survey the area, before the first expedition to the site was undertaken. The geoglyph was found 200km west of Chelyabink, in the Zyuratkul National Park, situated on terrace at an altitude of 860 metres.

http://siberiantimes.com/PICTURES/SCIENCE/Zyuratkul-moose/inside%20the%20site%20with%20scientists.jpg

Initial fieldwork found simple techniques were used to create the moose, with turf and earth 10-metres-wide dug out to make its shape before being filled with stones. 'The figure would initially have looked white and slightly shiny against the green grass background,' he said.
Different methods were deloyed to make the various parts of the geoglyph; for instance, a mix of clay and crushed stone was used to make the hooves. When part of the hind leg was excavated, archaeologists found the largest stones were on the edges, with the smaller ones inside. While there are similarities to the world famous Nazca Lines, in Peru, and to geoglyphs in England - such as the White Horse in Oxfordshire or the Dorset Giant - the experts believe there are no links.
Discovered in 1927, the Nazca Lines feature hundreds of lines, shapes and designs of animals, the earliest of which were created around 500BC. Instead, archaeologists say the Russian moose was drawn in a style similar to petroglyphs found in Finland. Excavations of nearby land could provide further clues as to its origins and to the people who made it. Radiocarbon dating has been carried out, narrowing down the period in which the geoglyph was created to between 3,000BC and 4,000BC, some 5,000 or 6,000 years ago.
But further testing is needed - for example optically-stimulated luminescence dating as well as pollen analysis - is planned.
Mr Grigoryev said: 'It may help if we find ceramics on the site. Ceramics could help us with the date and with understanding who these people were that created the geoglyph. It's not quite clear who the builders were. It is obvious that its creation has a big social importance. Geoglyphs are the symbols of unity'.
Yet archeologists still cannot fathom the identity of their sophisticated social group who worked in the massive operation of constructing structure visible from space.
'Facts say that on this territory in the Neolithic and Eneolithic Ages lived hunters and fishermen. We conducted archaeological works on the site of a settlement nearby, on the lake shore, on the assumption that the builders of the geoglyph might live there. People have lived here since the Neolithic era but there was no sign of large social structures, nor that they did anything other than hunting and fishing', Stanislav Grigoryev said.
'It puzzles me a lot, I keep thinking about the people that built the geoglyph, and their purpose'.

http://siberiantimes.com/PICTURES/SCIENCE/Zyuratkul-moose/inside%20brown%20and%20light%20lines%20moose.jpg

The research team found traces of two ancient fireplaces at the site of the moose, both used only once, possibly in a significant ritual. Despite many unanswered questions, Mr Grigoryev warned against future large scale excavation and said officials should consider preserving the sanctity of the site. At the moment it is the world's most ancient geoglyph, dating back to about 4,000BC.
'The geoglyphs in Nazca are younger as are those in the UK, though there might be some of comparable age in Britain. But at the moment Zyuratkul's is the most ancient, and is the world's largest figure image, but which we mean geometrical or zoomorphic figures, because there are very long lines in Nasca, and here we speak about the figure. So it's not the largest geoglyph, but the largest figure image.
'It could become a tourist attraction and with a museum, but we need to think how it might be implemented'.
An intriguing question is whether more geoglyphs will become visible as researchers analyse Google Earth in detail.
Some 50 geoglyphs with various shapes and sizes, including a massive swastika, were recently discovered across northern Kazakhstan. There is no doubting the excitement people feel from seeing the moose. Russian journalist Yevgeny Bezborodov, originally from Siberia, said: 'It's rare when you film something truly exclusive - and this is what we got in the South Urals'.

Source:
http://siberiantimes.com/science/casestudy/features/f0005-children-from-lost-civilisation-helped-build-geoglyph-some-6000-years-ago/

official government link:
http://eng.gubernator74.ru/moose-most-ancient-geoglyph-earth

Local archaeological digs by the nearby lake found no evidence of a population likely to have built the moose.
‘People have lived here since the Neolithic era but there was no sign of large social structures, nor that they did anything other than hunting and fishing,’ Dr Grigoryev.

No-body knows why ancient people created the geoglyph which stretches for about 902 ft (275 metres). Theories include that it was used to worship gods, denote postcodes, or even attract Aliens.

http://heritagedaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/russa1.jpg

[uzn]

More ancient Geoglyph´s in Kazakhstan discovered by NASA.

https://natgeoeducationblog.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/ushtogayskysquarecrop.jpg
X marks the spot of Ushtogaysky Square, the largest of Kazakhstan’s so-called Turgai geoglyphs. Each side of the Ushtogaysky Square measures about 274 meters (900 feet).
Photograph by NASA

https://natgeoeducationblog.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/turgaiswastikacrop.jpg
The diameter of the Turgai swastika, above, is about 91 meters (300 feet). (The bent cross of a swastika is a design motif that stretches back millennia)
Photograph by NASA

Source:
https://blog.education.nationalgeographic.com/2015/11/02/ancient-geoglyphs-discovered-in-kazakhstan/

many more have been found:
a circle
https://i0.wp.com/i.livescience.com/images/i/000/070/437/i02/kazakhstan-geoglyphs-2.JPG

a cross
https://i2.wp.com/i.livescience.com/images/i/000/070/438/i02/kazakhstan-geoglyphs-3.JPG

[happyuk]

Utterly fascinating uzn. That table of symbols almost reminds of the cymatic images created by sound vibration:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/c7/7b/4d/c77b4d037d407b54e43c16351752e74d.jpg

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/568227677955655627/

[uzn]

The Patomskiy Crater

from HNGN (Headlines & Global News)

What Created Siberia's Strange 'Eagle's Nest'? Scientists Baffled At One Of World's Strangest Scientific Mysteries

http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-o-xYjO1haLk/VcOOMVuzqZI/AAAAAAABFI0/PtiVwuEB0Ro/patomskiy-crater-10%25255B2%25255D.jpg?imgmax=800

https://unitedcats.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/patomsky.jpg?w=1400

One of the world's strangest scientific mysteries was discovered when a geologist stumbled across a massive mound 65 years ago, UK MailOnline reported.
Discovered in 1949, the site in Irkutsk, Siberia is a huge convex cone with a funnel-shaped recess and a rounded hill in the middle, which looks a little like an eagle's nest with an egg nestled inside it.
For decades, scientists have been baffled by the origin of the Patomskiy crater, which is named after a nearby river. The theories for its existence have ranged from a nuclear blast to a secret gulag mine and even a meteorite strike.
According to UK MailOnline, the current thinking is that the site was indeed created by a meteorite strike, but no evidence has been found to support the theory.
The cone is 80 meters tall and has a diameter of 150 meters at its widest. The depth of the inner circle ditch is around 10 meters.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/02/07/article-2553841-1B42F17600000578-464_634x422.jpg

Vadim Kolpakov, who discovered the crater, tried and failed to arrange a scientific trip to examine the site, but numerous expeditions have taken place since and samples were collected in 2013.
As there were not enough people living nearby when the crater is thought to have formed to create such a pile, theories that the mound is a giant slagheap have been thrown out.
And there were never labor camps or gulags in the region, UK MailOnline reported.
"Half a ton of samples were taken from the site and removed by helicopter last year," UK MailOnline reported. "The samples led scientists to dismiss ideas of a uranium ore explosion as the background radiation at the site is low and no uranium has been found nearby either."
This left them with two main theories - one of a volcano and another of a meteorite.
However, the mysterious site has not given up any meteoritic material and the area is not thought to be volcanic, UK MailOnline reported.
Within thousands of kilometers of the Patomskiy crater, there are no volcanoes and it also seems to be relatively new.
"Scientists thought the crater was only between 100 and 500 years old and could be the result of the Tunguska meteorite, which fell in the Krasnoyarsk region in 1908, but whose crater has never been discovered," UK MailOnline reported. "It is thought the meteorite was sighted just 70km away from the 'eagle's nest' and that distance is a mere 10 to 15 seconds of flight."
As the Tunguska event occurred in 1908, the age coincides, but modern tests have shown that the crater is actually 250 years old - so it could have been formed by a previous meteorite that fell when the area was virtually unpopulated.
Between 100 and 150 meters underneath the crater, scientists think that there is something buried with a high iron content and ferromagnetic materials.
Although they are not certain, they believe it could be a meteorite or another incredibly dense object.
The fact that the crater is 'alive' as its shape changes constantly - by rising and falling - and that the trees nearby the site are reported to grow abnormally fast, adds to the mystery, UK MailOnline reported.

Source:
http://www.hngn.com/articles/23946/20140207/what-created-siberias-strange-eagles-nest-scientists-baffled-one-worlds.htm

http://s1.dmcdn.net/KITLX/1280x720-3Xv.jpg

http://runknown.com/Photos/ebbe5cc5-e9fe-48ea-aab1-798a0bf6fa53/0810203c-6517-4314-8846-7c5a6ec677b9.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CzIdARkGobs/VRZkcU3qPqI/AAAAAAAARTw/NBpZvotOcyM/s1600/Patomskiy_Crater.jpg

http://blogs.egu.eu/geolog/files/2014/02/View-from-the-crater.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/02/07/article-2553841-1B42F16E00000578-122_634x475.jpg

https://hague6185.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/patomskiy-crater1-500x375.jpg?w=748

[Morbid]

ancient star forts. most likely pre-flud. some cities had these but just like in europe got built on top of over time..

p48plGpZrCY

[uzn]

The cave city of Eski-Kermen in Crimea. I posted a lot of Pictures of it (Post #2 - #4). Close to the Mangup Fortress.

Here is a russian "Indiana Jones" walking the whole complex ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arKyMDHMAEU

http://turmanual.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/13b8c467c9cf17ee7437b7c6cad47e65.jpg

https://prostorikrima.ru//static//uploads/crimea/object/image/6f/2f/35a4ad8014d9b21e59b35b7e7670.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Gu-FQY9mT4s/VIytJqVzajI/AAAAAAAAN-Y/WEvKdI2nEFM/w750-h541-no/%D0%9F%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%B0_% D0%B1%D0%B5%D0%B7_%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B2%D0%B0%D 0%BD%D0%B8%D1%8F112.jpg

The Entrance. Could be easily defended.
https://www.7ways.com.ua/images/crimea/eski-kermen-crimea-entrance-tower.jpg

In the distant past it was inhabited by about three thousand people, but very little is known about their life: written sources about Eski-Kermen are not mentioned, and archaeological finds are not too rich.

[uzn]

Here some scematics of the cave city of Eski-Kermen in Crimea.

http://www.krimoved-library.ru/images/pgvk/1-27.jpg

http://www.krimoved-library.ru/images/pgvk/1-28.jpg

http://www.krimoved-library.ru/images/pgvk/1-29.jpg

http://www.krimoved-library.ru/images/pgvk/1-30.jpg

http://www.krimoved-library.ru/images/pgvk/1-34.jpg

[Foxie Loxie]

Because of all the underground living quarters we are finding in the earth, it would seem that at some point in the past, populations were expecting to be "rained upon" from above so moved underground. The one in Capedocia is immense. Just my musings! ;)

[uzn]

Behold the ancient Inkerman.

Unraveling this feels better than a Christmas present. Inkerman is said to mean a "cave fortress" in Turkish.

This one is one of the things they really tried to push under the carpet. There is very little information. Nearly no mentioning in historybooks, apart from the area.
We are talking here one of the biggest Cave compexes I have ever seen. This Area deserves the Title Mother of all Cave Cities. Even Google Picturesearch did not reveal much.
But let´s start from the beginning.
Inkerman is a City at the Black Sea in the Ukraine. In Ancient times it was what we today call a Metropolis, a giant cave city. The old Türks gave it it´s name Inkerman (Cave City).
In medieval times up to the 18th century the ruins were famous. Often painted or engraved.

The Ruins of Inkermann and City of Caverns !
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3d/The_Ruins_of_Inkermann_and_City_of_Caverns._%2815040076984%29.jpg

some caves visible
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/WEBSTER%281830%29_1.309_INKERMANN.jpg

another Engraving:
https://fotki.yandex.ru/next/users/humus777/album/415949/view/990558

https://www.arthermitage.org/Karl-von-Kugelgen/View-from-a-Grotto-of-Inkerman.big.html

Title: Excavated Church in the Caverns at Inkermann. Looking West.
(excavated church?)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ed/Excavated_Church_in_the_Caverns_at_Inkermann._Looking_West._%2815833114921%29.jpg

That´s better
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/Bakhchisaray.jpg

http://www.vidania.ru/picture/ukraina/inkerman_russen2.jpg

[uzn]

The whole Area is of the finest sandstone and has been a querry already in ancient times.
Even when the Germans conquered the lands they where knocked off their shoes by what they found, they censored it:
https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/v_n_zb/24204083/2377919/2377919_original.jpg

Here another photo of these ancient big quarry shafts
http://c8.alamy.com/comp/DRJFPC/quarry-at-inkerman-crimea-ukraine-DRJFPC.jpg

Here one getty Picture in that houses have been built in the "quarry"
http://www.gettyimages.de/detail/nachrichtenfoto/sandstone-quarries-of-inkerman-probably-in-the-1910s-nachrichtenfoto/501377745?#russia-crimea-sandstone-quarries-of-inkerman-probably-in-the-1910s-picture-id501377745

unfortunatly it is still used as a quarry and knowbody knows how many ancient Caves have been destoyed already.
Here you can see were they hit some caves:
https://realnoevremya.ru/uploads/article/1d/3d/f45fe1d3b542a38a.jpg

http://tropykryma.com/wp-content/uploads/18__stena_kamenolomni.jpg

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/74568276.jpg

https://cdn.shutterstock.com/shutterstock/videos/6071717/thumb/1.jpg

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/syroj/15893418/139407/139407_original.jpg

[uzn]

Wikipedia on the History of Inkerman(n):
The area has been inhabited since ancient times. The cave monastery of St. Clement was founded near Inkerman in the 8th century by Byzantine icon-venerators fleeing persecution in their homeland. The monastery was closed during the Soviet era and several of its churches destroyed but is now in restoration and brought back into use.

And that´s only half the truth, The monastery was built into an already existing ancient cavesystem, they kind of forgot to mention it.

https://guideimg.alibaba.com/images/shop/2016/11/03/52/1906-print-rock-monastery-inkerman-saint-clement-limestone-monks-caves-russia-original-halftone-print_29288352.jpeg

https://fotki.yandex.ru/next/users/humus777/album/443374/view/737206
https://fotki.yandex.ru/next/users/humus777/album/443374/view/737301
https://fotki.yandex.ru/next/users/humus777/album/443374/view/737205

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/Inkerman-c1910.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/3a/74/bb/3a74bbf02bae825dd729ad7b13813882--cliff-house-planet-earth.jpg

Inside the monastary
http://www.unitedeuropeanchristendom.com/UEC_photos_to_website/uec_crimea_inkerman_cave_stairway.jpg

http://www.unitedeuropeanchristendom.com/UEC_photos_to_website/uec_crimea_inkerman_cave_mona_icons.jpg

https://02varvara.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/02a-st-kliment-monastery-inkerman-sevastopol-special-municipality.jpg

above the monastary is an ancient staircase up the mountain.
http://uzm.spb.ru/side/crimea2004/images/1/p1040286.jpg

http://ukrainaincognita.com/sites/default/files/inkerman_monas_shody1.jpg

http://taxi-crimea.com.ua/images/inkerman-t2.jpg

[uzn]

and not so easy to find: next to the monastary

http://ukrainaincognita.com/sites/default/files/inkerman_monas6.jpg

http://ukrainaincognita.com/sites/default/files/inkerman_monas9.jpg

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/1154642.jpg

But the Monastary was just for starters, now sit back and relax.
Here comes the train to the station next to the monastary.
Just for fun, try to count all the caves you see ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM8xyBobICY

[uzn]

Then you saw the above vidoe you know something is off here. That´s a lot of Caves, nowhere mentioned.

Now let´s take a closer look.

http://tropykryma.com/wp-content/uploads/15__dorogi_zheleznaya_i_k_bo.jpg

http://ukrainaincognita.com/sites/default/files/inkerman_kam1.jpg

https://seacool.ru/i3/inkerman_peschery.png

https://uateka.com/uploads/photo/2011/08/05/192e96a859b8ac06439ea388672633063eeb1d86.jpg

http://dostoyanieplaneti.ru/media/k2/galleries/3393/24.jpg

http://zerkalokryma.ru/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/inkerman.jpg

http://crimeamap.ru/inkerman_pesherniy/1.jpg

http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/9d1a8757ba994c89b8dcff7fe8019b58/cave-monastery-inkerman-ukraine-inkerman-crimea-ukraine-30-april-2008-b7gex5.jpg

http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/f787c2110f244ac98749ce7886537ffa/cave-monastery-inkerman-ukraine-inkerman-crimea-ukraine-30-april-2008-b7gex0.jpg

[uzn]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dd/Inkerman_Kalamita_17.jpg

https://tropki.com/images/panoramio/large/14227991-inkermanskiy-peshchernyy-monastyr.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/92/7c/6d/927c6dbecfc5233916920a35115418c7--caves.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/30/ce/3b/30ce3b6948f33af710990db10b3928a3--cave.jpg

Here that´s a real mindbender: It say´s windows for caves in the description ! (Wikipedia)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/ff/%D0%98%D0%BD%D0%BA%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%BD_008.jpg

some strange stones
http://fscomps.fotosearch.com/bigcomps/CSP/CSP567/k5673877.jpg

[uzn]

A good overview of several caves:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7hSV4364t0

[uzn]

I found some more old interior Pictures
http://www.krimoved-library.ru/images/mpct/1-40.jpg

http://www.krimoved-library.ru/images/mpct/1-30.jpg

http://www.krimoved-library.ru/images/mpct/1-69.jpg

http://www.krimoved-library.ru/images/mpct/1-70.jpg

[StandingWave]

The material presented in this thread is amazing.

I cant express fully the gratitude I feel to be allowed the privilege to know these places and structures exist.
That these and many other images, videos, lectures and so on are now making it out of small circles of experts and 'cognicenti' into a far wider domain speaks volumes for the obvious shift in human affairs, both technologically and socially/politically.

There really has been a sea-change.

I've noticed in my daily thoughts that these images keep returning and are a regular draw back to this thread.
This is disclosure. And it's coming from you and me, the everyday ordinary folk who are here reading and participating in this dissemination.

Worth bearing in mind that, as Richard Dolan warned, it will be unsettling on many levels, not least of which is the sense of thinking one knows what's going on here in life - until enough anomalous information makes for serious questioning.

The state of existence described by many as 'normal' is like the sense of 'normal' in the body known as homeostasis. Any change in homeostasis is experienced as discomfort - even a change for the better.

These are unsettling times.
Amazing times.

[uzn]

less than 30 Kilometers from Inkermann (Crimea) is another amazing ancient cave complex called Kachi Kalyon (Качи-Кальон).
This one goes under the radar by pretending to be a cave monastery. If you are looking for ancient stuff or caves you wont find it.
As seen in the old photographs of the "quarry" of Inkerman here can be seen very large openings too.
And remember just because some monks found these caves quite comforting some hundred years ago does not mean they built it, just passengers on a cave.

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/skolesnikov144/72576478/123140/123140_original.jpg

Both big openings could have been made by something.
http://jalita.com/guidebook/cave/images/kachi-kalion_1l.jpg

http://www.otdoxnikrim.ru/images/kacha_kale/kacha_kale1.jpg

http://a-lapin.narod.ru/Photo/DSC64838-.jpg

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6205/67700761.1f/0_79daa_a071cf17_orig.jpg

It´s a perfect gigantic roof.
http://suntime.com.ua/img/content/sight/136/big_53431369363.jpg

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6205/67700761.1f/0_79daa_a071cf17_orig.jpg

http://a-lapin.narod.ru/Photo/DSC64103-.jpg

http://a-lapin.narod.ru/Photo/DSC64098-.jpg

[uzn]

http://a-lapin.narod.ru/Photo/DSC64095-.jpg

https://www.7ways.com.ua/images/crimea/grotto-st-anastasii-crimea.jpg

https://nicko.ru/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/1Peshhernyiy-monastyir-Kachi-Kalon.jpg

https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/9227/67700761.d1/0_abe0d_23b84ca1_orig.jpg

http://www.qrim.ru/files/images/qaci_kaljon_groti.jpg

http://crimeaz.ru/images/bahchisaray/kachi-kalyon/-%203.jpg

http://jalita.com/guidebook/cave/images/kachi-kalion_3l.jpg

http://jalita.com/guidebook/cave/images/kachi-kalion_7l.jpg

http://www.vhodv.com/upload/iblock/db4/db47bc5e8ab857daa08c035010220f51.jpg

[uzn]

Look at the cool waterbasin they got themselves there. Still working today.
http://llt-sebastopol.com/images/gallery/cd26d43d3e2b0156f734c04db750dab5.jpg

https://www.7ways.com.ua/images/crimea/kachi-kalion-crimea-group-under-cave.jpg

https://www.7ways.com.ua/images/crimea/kachi-kalion-crimea-istochnik-st-anastasii.jpg

http://graal.su/Luna/Ka4i_Kalion/ist_anastasi.jpg

http://adonis-crimea.com.ua/images/phocagallery/crimea_photo/kachi_kalon/kachi_kalon_pesheri.jpg

http://adonis-crimea.com.ua/images/phocagallery/crimea_photo/kachi_kalon/kachi-kalyon_v_peshere.jpg

Just to have a Laugh, here is the Monastary ;) Fine work under the window there Mr. russian orthodox priest ;)

http://adonis-crimea.com.ua/images/phocagallery/crimea_photo/kachi_kalon/monastery_kachi_kalion.jpg

[uzn]

But the bathtub is out of the same rock as the house.

https://crimeaone.ru/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/%D0%9A%D0%B0%D1%87%D0%B8-%D0%9A%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BE%D0%BD1.jpg

Roof of the big cave

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/44/Crimea_DSC_0305-1.jpg/800px-Crimea_DSC_0305-1.jpg

http://adonis-crimea.com.ua/images/phocagallery/crimea_photo/kachi_kalon/v_grote_kachi-kalion.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d0/Crimea_DSC_0290-1.jpg/1024px-Crimea_DSC_0290-1.jpg[/IMG

[IMG]http://adonis-crimea.com.ua/images/phocagallery/crimea_photo/kachi_kalon/v_kachi_kalyone.jpg

http://krymair.ru/d/857827/d/%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%87%D0%B8-%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B5.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bd/Crimea_DSC_0295.jpg/1024px-Crimea_DSC_0295.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d5/Crimea_DSC_0306-1.jpg/1024px-Crimea_DSC_0306-1.jpg

http://yalta.larest.ru/uploads/offers/images/1240_390x205.jpg

https://www.7ways.com.ua/images/crimea/kachi-kalion-crimea-under-cave.jpg

[uzn]

Let´s take the double room
http://bogi-winsten.ucoz.com/_pu/0/05291948.jpg

This looks more sophisticated.

http://po-krymu.ru/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/kachi-kalon-krym.jpg

http://po-krymu.ru/wp-content/gallery/peshhernyj-monastyr-kachi-kalon/zhile-peshhernogo-goroda-179.jpg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XM89Vl6vEHI

And today they bungyjump there.
https://crimeaone.ru/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/kachi-kalon2.jpg

[uzn]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/01/Crimea_DSC_0218-1.jpg

On Top, some really old steps (or something made)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6b/Crimea_DSC_0352-1.jpg

and the space for the matress
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Crimea_DSC_0355-1.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/86/Crimea_DSC_0356-1.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3c/Kachi-Kalion.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2b/%D0%9A%D0%B0%D1%87%D1%96-%D0%9A%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BE%D0%BD_2.jpg

[Foxie Loxie]

Amazing stuff, uzn!! :highfive: Agree with your comments, Standing Wave! We are SO fortunate to be able to view these structures!! :clapping:

[uzn]

https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/31382/354311351.12/0_188b2b_c5079e86_orig

https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/61747/354311351.12/0_188b2a_52a15188_orig

https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/44813/354311351.12/0_188b2d_e3f6157c_orig

The second big Roof
http://www.dopotopa.com/files/kachi_kaljon_62.JPG

http://moji.com.ua/good/uploads/2013/12/kachi-kalion-10.jpg

could be drainage holes / tunnels ?
https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/57110/51861956.8f/0_f6941_eb221b0a_orig.jpg

https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/98050/51861956.8f/0_f6940_93485769_orig.jpg

https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/46310/51861956.8f/0_f6942_153f4b90_orig.jpg

[uzn]

https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/41340/51861956.90/0_f6943_49c5feec_orig.jpg

https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/51134/51861956.90/0_f6944_8f2adb6e_orig.jpg

https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/150569/51861956.90/0_f6945_3fc4fe28_orig.jpg

https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/103213/51861956.90/0_f694c_714b086b_orig.jpg

https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/51827/51861956.90/0_f6951_ac58e5a2_orig.jpg

just to get a feel fot the place : the view
https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/52790/51861956.90/0_f6954_4785440d_orig.jpg

https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/46412/51861956.90/0_f695b_1f14b2e6_orig.jpg

https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/152444/51861956.90/0_f6964_b184136_orig.jpg

By the way, nothing is know of the builders. Some sources say ancient People lived there sometime. That´s about it. And of course officially it´s monastary.
http://llt-sebastopol.com/images/gallery/f112ba77898883943eb50e430348a589.jpg

[uzn]

http://llt-sebastopol.com/images/gallery/7aea8daa41880e096c32f102982b1bde.jpg

some ancient cavepaintings
http://llt-sebastopol.com/images/gallery/54d8e6fc36bbfde662f69aa78e841c2d.jpg

http://krymkrymkrym.ru/d/1578525/d/772._._%C2%AB%D0%9A%D1%80%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D0%9A%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B1%D 0%BB%D1%8C%C2%BB_-_%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B0_%D0%9A%D0%B0%D1%87%D0%B8-%D0%9A%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BE%D0%BD__(%D0%9A%D1%80%D1%8B%D0%BC)_-_%D0%BC%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE__%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8% D1%8F_%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%89%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE_%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%82%D1 %8B%D1%80%D1%8F.jpg

http://krymkrymkrym.ru/d/1578525/d/776._%D0%9A%D0%B0%D1%87%D0%B8-%D0%9A%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BE%D0%BD__(%D0%9A%D1%80%D1%8B%D0%BC)._%D0%81%D0%BC%D0%BA%D0%BE%D1%81%D1% 82%D0%B8_%D0%B4%D0%BB%D1%8F_%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B0.jpg

http://krymkrymkrym.ru/d/1578525/d/782._%D0%94%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D1%8F_%D0%B4%D0%BB%D1%8F_%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B0_(5 ).jpg

http://krymkrymkrym.ru/d/1578525/d/775._%D0%A1%D0%BA%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B9_%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%82_%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%89%D0 %B5%D1%80%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE_%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%82%D1%8B%D1%80%D1%8F_%D0%9A%D0%B 0%D1%87%D0%B8-%D0%9A%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BE%D0%BD,_%D0%9A%D1%80%D1%8B%D0%BC.jpg

http://krymkrymkrym.ru/d/1578525/d/774._%D0%9F%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B2%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%82_%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%89%D0%B5%D1%80%D0 %BD%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE_%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%82%D1%8B%D1%80%D1%8F_%D0%9A%D0%B0%D1%87%D0%B 8-%D0%9A%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BE%D0%BD,_%D0%9A%D1%80%D1%8B%D0%BC.jpg

http://www.otdoxnikrim.ru/images/kacha_kale/kacha_kale3.jpg

[avid]

Amazing stuff, enthralling, putting previous 'history lessons' into total deception again....
Uzn, thank you for your enlightening posts, there are no conspirancies, no politics, just absolute truth. ❤️

[uzn]

Around 8 km to the North of Kachi Kalyon and 40 km from Inkermann is another big ancient cave complex called Chufut-Kale (Чуфут-Кале).
There are a lot more caves on the crimean Peninsula, but this one is uniqe in it´s style. It has a more rectangular feel to it but is nethertheless very ancient.
Chufut-Kale was a fortress in medieval times. This place was inhabitated in ancient times and this hill has been lives in or built upon by everybody throughout history. I am as always going for the really old stuff, not looking to much at the medieval ruins and Buildings.

Wikipedia is not very forthcoming:
Building started about the 5th or 6th century and has been built upon by bla bla bla .. And Wikipedia says it translates into jewish fortress(Crimean Tatar and Turkish), as if the jews build it, it appears much much older. My guess would be that the jews were there at some point in time maybe.

Old caves in the mountain.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/Chufut_Kale1.jpg

Medieval fortification walls but also ancient caves in the back.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Chufut_Kale2.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/Cave_City.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/56/Brockhaus_and_Efron_Jewish_Encyclopedia_e9_281-0.jpg

Just look at this road going up the mountain ;) I think I dont Need to say anything to this. Marks like this can be found on Malta Turkey etc.
http://c8.alamy.com/comp/D7PG8F/deep-rut-in-the-road-ufut-qale-chufut-kale-jewish-fortress-crimea-D7PG8F.jpg

http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/fd035d9bfd74416f9ca6e2284f385b63/ufut-qale-chufut-kale-cave-city-jewish-fortress-crimea-ukraine-eastern-cr3g02.jpg

http://l450v.alamy.com/450v/d7pje2/the-main-gate-ufut-qale-chufut-kale-jewish-fortress-crimea-ukraine-d7pje2.jpg

[uzn]

continued Chufut Kale / Crimean peninsula
https://middleeuropeanmelancholy.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/dsc06208.jpg

https://kitskinny.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/cavecitycrimea001-29.jpg

The Whole thing has been hollowed out here.
http://www.krym4you.com/files/catalog/450/gallery/big/chufut-kale-bahchisa5_1462527935.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/Chufut_Kale_21.jpg

https://thumb1.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/556036/552926227/stock-photo-stairs-in-the-rock-leading-to-the-basement-552926227.jpg

http://bogi-winsten.ucoz.com/_pu/0/02160746.jpeg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/Chufut_Kale_cave.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/16.%D0%91%D0%B0%D1%85%D1%87%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B9_%2837%29.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/Chufut_Kale_10.jpg

[uzn]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0f/Chufut_Kale_20.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/72/Chufut_Kale_22.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/Chufut_Kale_23.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/Chufut_Kale_3.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/64/Chufut_Kale_5.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4a/Chufut_Kale_7.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b3/Chufut_Kale_9.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/29/Chufut_Kale_cave2.jpg

[uzn]

Looks different but is just around the corner.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e3/Chufut_Kale6.jpg

If you look closely one can see that the whole Plateau is sculpted.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/Chufut_Kale8.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Chufut_Kale9.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1c/Chufut-Kale_-_cave.jpg

overview of one cliffside
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/29/City_of_Stone_%282837073391%29.jpg

The entrance, fortified in medieval times.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/01/Julia_Zirka_fortez_Bahchisaraj_Chufut_brama_mala1.JPG

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c8/Julia_Zirka_fortez_Bahchisaraj_Chufut_brama_mala6.jpg

cool little windows in the rock
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/Julia_Zirka_fortez_Bahchisaraj_Chufut_brama7.JPG

[uzn]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/Julia_Zirka_fortez_Bahchisaraj_Chufut_Burunchak_sporudy_pecherni17.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/Julia_Zirka_fortez_Bahchisaraj_Chufut_Burunchak_sporudy_pecherni3.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/06/Julia_Zirka_fortez_Bahchisaraj_Chufut_chaush1.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/48/Julia_Zirka_fortez_Bahchisaraj_Chufut_chaush10.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/Julia_Zirka_fortez_Bahchisaraj_Chufut_chaush2.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/Julia_Zirka_fortez_Bahchisaraj_Chufut_chaush3.jpg

This one again because it´s so amazing
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/Julia_Zirka_fortez_Bahchisaraj_Chufut_chaush5.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3c/Julia_Zirka_fortez_Bahchisaraj_Chufut_chaush6.jpg

[uzn]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/Julia_Zirka_fortez_Bahchisaraj_Chufut_chaush9.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/%D0%92%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%BA%D1%80%D1%96%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D 1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/%D0%92%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3c/Julia_Zirka_fortez_Bahchisaraj_Chufut1.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/89/Mikva_in_%C3%87ufut_Qale.JPG

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/Podval_Chaush-Kobasy.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/da/%D0%90%D0%BF%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%B8_%D0%B2_%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B5%D0%BB%D 1%8F%D1%85.jpg

http://thefamilywithoutborders.com/wp-content/gallery/2010-06-27b_bakhchysaray_cave-city/06_ukraine_bakhchysaray_cave-city_MG_8390.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/%D0%92%D0%BD%D1%83%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B8_%D0%A7%D1%83%D1%84%D1%83%D1%82-%D0%9A%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B5.jpg

[uzn]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/%D0%9A%D1%80%D1%8B%D0%BC_-_%D0%A7%D1%83%D1%84%D1%83%D1%82-%D0%9A%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B5_15.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/%D0%9A%D1%80%D1%8B%D0%BC_-_%D0%A7%D1%83%D1%84%D1%83%D1%82-%D0%9A%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B5_31.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/ff/%D0%9A%D1%80%D1%8B%D0%BC_-_%D0%A7%D1%83%D1%84%D1%83%D1%82-%D0%9A%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B5_32.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/%D0%9F%D0%B5%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B0_%D0%B2_%D0%A7%D1%83%D1%84%D1%83%D1%82-%D0%9A%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B5_-_panoramio.jpg

Again the "Street", it´s solid rock and goes a long way

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/%D0%94%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%B0_%D0%B7_%D0%A7%D1%83%D1%84%D1%83%D1%82-%D0%9A%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B5_%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%9A%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%97%D0%BC%D1%81%D1%8C%D0%BA%D0%B5_% D0%BA%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%89%D0%B5_-_panoramio_%281%29.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/%D0%94%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%B0_%D0%B7_%D0%A7%D1%83%D1%84%D1%83%D1%82-%D0%9A%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B5_%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%9A%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%97%D0%BC%D1%81%D1%8C%D0%BA%D0%B5_% D0%BA%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%89%D0%B5_-_panoramio_%282%29.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/%D0%94%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%B0_%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE_%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%80%D 0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B0.JPG

[uzn]

Ah, I nearly forgot. There is an ancient spiral Staircase ! It´s carved out of solid rock !

http://krimrelax.ru/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Osadnyj-kolodets-Tik-Kuyu.jpg

http://jalita.com/guidebook/cave/images/tik_kueu_2_lg.jpg

wow

http://krimrelax.ru/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Sekretnyj-kolodets-Tik-kuyu.jpg

https://cdn1.360cities.net/pano/greyghost/00444045_krim-2010-chufut-kale-jpg/cube/front/5.jpg

http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/d7bf71f58fea44dca829670e2b61ffcb/oct-15-2014-cave-city-crimea-russia-cave-city-chufut-kale-bakhchysarai-f156d0.jpg

https://t4.ftcdn.net/jpg/01/66/25/09/240_F_166250923_vO0E4m4DVFjvpf2CHNOEhSKfOdenLHS7.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Chufut_Kale_11.jpg

http://www.studiolum.com/wang/crimea/chufut/5/12.jpg

Tunnels in solid rock

http://krimrelax.ru/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Osadnyj-kolodets-Tik-Kuyu-u-CHufut-Kale-.jpg

[uzn]

And a little video of Chufut Kale.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fs900mrmd4

[uzn]

Just to ease thing up between all the caves I present you one out of place object from russia. This meight not be ancient but intriguing anyway.

The so called "Tsar Bath" located in the Babolovsky Palace in Tsarskoye Selo. I don´t know if it´s a bath at all. If you sit in it you would drown. It´s also called Babol's bath .Pure Granite. Weights 48 tons. Perfectly round.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/%D0%92%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BD%D0%B0.jpg

http://www.foxbase.ru/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/1408118.jpg

http://rodobogie.org/uploads/files//2015/12/1-b.jpg

http://rodobogie.org/uploads/files//2015/12/2_0.jpg

http://rodobogie.org/uploads/files//2015/12/3_1.jpg[/IMG

[IMG]http://rodobogie.org/uploads/files//2015/12/4_0.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/uXemfNN.jpg

http://rodobogie.org/uploads/files//2015/12/5_0.jpg

strange old ladder next to it with ornaments.

http://rodobogie.org/uploads/files//2015/12/7_1.jpg

http://rodobogie.org/uploads/files//2015/12/6_1.jpg

This is what the russian Wikipedia has on it:

Tsar bath (or Babol's bowl , or Babol's bath ) - a bowl made of solid granite weighing 48 tons, a height of 1.96 meters, a diameter of 5.33 meters and a depth of 1.52 meters. It is located in the Babol Palace in Tsarskoye Selo . The approximate volume of the bath is 23 cubic meters. or about 1,900 buckets, although P. Svinin's article (Otechestvennye zapiski, 1818) mentions a capacity of 800 buckets.
Presumably the cup was ordered by the engineer Betancourt Kamenotos Samson Sukhanov . The master asked for this to deliver a piece of granite with inclusions of a labrador weighing more than 160 tons. Then it was polished from 1818 to 1828. The work was done truly jeweler, as the thickness of the walls of the bowl (45 cm ) is the minimum thickness to withstand the weight of a bowl full of water.

The russian presume it was Sukhanov. They dont know who did this! The Tzar probably knew who did this or where it came from.

Professor Zembitsky noted:
This work of the Russian artist is all the more deserving of attention that since the time of the Egyptians nothing is known so colossal of granite.


Turner:

THE SITE OF "VANNA" ... its dimensions are enormous. This is a non-human-sized "bathtub" weighing 48 tons, depth - 151.1 cm, diameter - 533 cm. "According to the calculation in the bath this will come to 800 buckets of water." By modern standards, counting 1 bucket = 12.293 liters, we get the water volume in the tub about 10 cubic meters. m, and by the geometric dimensions of water in the bath can pour about 25 cubic meters. m. That is, the calculation was either incorrect, or the bill went to the buckets of hot water added to dilute cold water, or to partial filling - by 1/2 of this giant bath.

[Foxie Loxie]

Looks perfect for our race of "giants"!! :sun: The "cart ruts" are amazing! Thank you SO MUCH, uzn, for sharing all of this with us!! :highfive:

[uzn]

Here you can see how shiny and polished it still is.

https://cs8.pikabu.ru/post_img/big/2016/01/25/5/145370623412089918.jpg

Footprints from bullets in the granite bowl of Tsar-bath in Babolovsky Park. The fascist invaders tried to take the bath to Germany. But they did not manage to figure out how to take out a 48 ton granite bath from the palace. Who of them shot the bath - not installed, but the chips are relatively fresh and in shape resemble traces of pistol bullets.
http://dom.dacha-dom.ru/banya/babolovo-7.jpg

https://a.d-cd.net/5450926s-1920.jpg

http://dom.dacha-dom.ru/banya/babolovo-11.jpg

[uzn]

Another thing that is a bit suspicious is the Alexander Column (Russian: Алекса́ндровская коло́нна, Aleksandrovskaya kolonna) also known as Alexandrian Column (Russian: Александри́йская коло́нна, Aleksandriyskaya kolonna).It is the focal point of Palace Square in Saint Petersburg, Russia.

Wikipedia

The monument is claimed to be the tallest of its kind in the world at 47.5 m (155 ft 8 in) tall and is topped with a statue of an angel holding a cross, as a triumphal column it may be the highest but the Monument to the Great Fire of London is a freestanding column 62 m high. As a monolith that has been quarried, moved and erected it is the heaviest recorded (in modern History (inserted by me)).
Without the aid of modern cranes and engineering machines, the column, weighing 600 tonnes (661 tons) on 30 August 1832 was erected by 3,000 men under the guidance of William Handyside in less than 2 hours.
So they say.
And it also seems perfectly round and just one piece. Wonder how they did that.

"The Alexander Column in scaffolds" (1832-1834), by Grigory Gagarin.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/GagarinG_StroitAlekKolonGE.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/WinterPalaceAndAC.jpg

http://alterra.cc/media/turobj/icon/St._Petersburg_attr_57.jpg

So round and shiny
http://thetravelingsoul.com/a/tidbits-from-saint-petersburg21.jpg

But on the other Hand.
Nearly the same time the russians erected their "Column". In Egypt this Ramses II stature was found laying on the side in the open.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c9/Th%C3%A9odule_Dev%C3%A9ria_%28French_-_%28Close-up_of_a_Sculpture_on_an_Excavated_Site%29_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg

They got it out of the dirt and cleaned it
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/78/Up_and_down_the_Nile%3B_or%2C_Young_adventurers_in_Africa_%281894%29_%2814783239962%29.jpg

But then they realised that at that time they were unable to move the stature. But instead of making waves they build the Memphis Museum around the Stature. Problem solved.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/51/Ramses_II_colossal_statue_head_in_Memphis_2010_2.jpg

http://c7.alamy.com/comp/BHFERW/detail-from-colossal-statue-of-rameses-ii-memphis-egypt-c13th-century-BHFERW.jpg
By the way one of the finest egyptian statures around.

[uzn]

This side has the erosion from being exposed to the elements. This side is not so often shown in books and media.
http://c8.alamy.com/compde/c7hcrt/gefallenen-statue-von-ramses-ii-memphis-unteragypten-c7hcrt.jpg

Herve, would love to hear your thoughs about the age of this erosion.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/MemphisMuseumEgypt_RamsesIIStatue_2007feb1-6_byDanielCsorfoly.JPG

In Egypt they could not move the stature over a bigger distance but in russia they had no prob to carv, transport and erect the much heavier Column ?
Suspicious suspicious

[uzn]

shamanism
https://image.jimcdn.com/app/cms/image/transf/none/path/s3726f4fc9675ca64/image/ifa9f9556ec21ad6c/version/1424190517/%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B5-%D0%B4%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%BE-%D0%B0%D0%B0%D0%BB-%D0%BB%D1%83%D1%83%D0%BA-%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%87%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%BE-xx-%D0%B2.jpg
The world tree - Aal Luuk.

[uzn]

This talk is about ancient archeology in general, not only russia. It´s about out of place finds, official vs. real dating, suppression techniques in science to name a few topics.
Michael A. Cremo, author of "Forbidden Archeology":
strange archeology finds that challenge everything you thought you knew

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVLhfXP_0BQ

Many archeologists have investigated these extremely strange ancient artifacts after their discovery, they have tried everything to come up with a rational explaination but the evidence suggests that man has been on Earth for millions of years. The evidence discovered contradicts the accepted history that people evolved from ape to man. Rather, it suggests that man walked the Earth side by side with Neanderthals and dinosaurs.

Numerous artiifacts including skeletons, a metal vase, and a very modern looking shoe print have been found in solid rock dating back hundreds of millions of years. This video is so important in educating the public about the multifaceted discoveries in archaeology that have been systematically suppressed from leading archaeologists and academicians and kept away from the public at large for over 100 years. It will change your entire understanding of history, science and cosmology. Get ready for a profound set of new insights about who we are and how long we have actually been on earth.

[uzn]

In the whole period of the middle ages the church was in charge of suppressing acheological finds as best they could. In many instances they just build a church / monastary around or into it.

As example:
Uspensky monastery in Bakhchisaray, once ancient caves.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/1869._%D0%91%D0%B0%D1%85%D1%87%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B9%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D1%81%D0 %B2%D1%8F%D1%82%D0%BE-%D1%83%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%BC%D1%83%D0%B6%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B9_%D 0%BC%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%82%D1%8B%D1%80%D1%8C.jpg

[uzn]

very ancient and mysterious
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/05/03/cb/0503cb3e209e5cfb5f536766e960b861.jpg

http://www.messagetoeagle.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/millionyearsoldartif02.jpg

[uzn]

This is yet another mysterious prehistoric high-tech artifact from the distant past. Inside this stone there is man-made baffling object.
Very little is known about this curious artifact. The object was brought to light in 2009 and it was found in the village Sarakseevo, Moscow region, Russia.

http://vimana.su/upload/image/899/10.jpg

http://68.media.tumblr.com/b30daff70a11420819bd26985a569e68/tumblr_nmuzm8LDN51s8grouo3_1280.jpg

http://vimana.su/upload/image/899/11.jpg

http://vimana.su/upload/image/899/12.jpg

http://vimana.su/upload/image/899/14.jpg

no age given

source:
http://www.messagetoeagle.com/baffling-ancient-man-made-object-hidden-inside-stone-another-mysterious-prehistoric-high-tech-artifact/

update: Had to change the links, since "message to eagle" did not work for linking the pictures.

[uzn]

In 1991, the appearance of extremely tiny, coil-shaped artifacts found near the banks of Russia’s Kozhim, Narada, and Balbanyu rivers brought about a debate that has continued to this day. These mysterious and minuscule structures suggest that there may have been a culture capable of developing nanotechnology 300,000 years ago.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-L1qP0ZZ5mnE/VAyMTObQPcI/AAAAAAAAQ1s/dzAdHxO2LW4/s1600/nanotechnology%2Bural%2Bmountains%2B-%2Brussia.jpg

These manufactured coils were initially discovered during geological research associated with the extraction of gold in the Ural mountains. These pieces include coils, spirals, shafts, and other unidentified components.
According to an analysis from the Russian Academy of Sciences in Syktyvkar, the largest pieces found are mostly copper, while the smallest are made of tungsten and molybdenum.

While the largest of these objects measure 1.18 inches, the smallest are only 1/10,000th of an inch, and many exhibit Golden Mean proportions. Their shape suggests that they are manufactured and not naturally occurring metal fragments. In fact, they have been found to closely resemble the same miniature components of contemporary nanotechnology.

A magnified image of one of the nano coils found in the Ural Mountains. Photo credit: Mysteries of the World, Herbert Genzmer and Ulrich Hellenbrand
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Nqx3g3Twr8U/VAwdRo4PqBI/AAAAAAAAQ1c/4ykLt9GeySw/s1600/02%2Bancient%2Bnano-coils.jpg

Though some have asserted that these tiny structures are merely debris left behind from test rockets being launched from nearby Plesetsk space station, a report from the Moscow Institute determined that they are far too old to have come from modern manufacturing.

In 1996, Dr. E.W. Matvejeva, from the Central Scientific Research Department of Geology and Exploitation of Precious Metals in Moscow, writes that, despite being thousands of years old, the components are of a technological origin.

The pieces were found at a depth between 10 and 40 feet, in a geological stratus between 20,000 and 318,000 years old.

How were humans able to manufacture such tiny components in the distant past, and what were they used for? Some believe that the coils prove the human species enjoyed a sophisticated level of technology in the Pleistocene era, while others assert that the findings are the work of extra-terrestrials.

The artifacts have been studied at four different facilities in Helsinki, St. Petersburg, and Moscow. However, further research into these tiny structures seems to have ended in 1999 with the death of Dr. Johannes Fiebag, a principal researcher of the find.

Source:
http://humansarefree.com/2014/09/the-300000-year-old-nanotechnology.html

[Hervé]

This is yet another mysterious prehistoric high-tech artifact from the distant past. Inside this stone there is man-made baffling object.
Very little is known about this curious artifact. The object was brought to light in 2009 and it was found in the village Sarakseevo, Moscow region, Russia.

http://www.messagetoeagle.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/artifunknorigin001.jpg[...]

The "Skrew" is of the same stone.
http://www.messagetoeagle.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/artifunknorigin002.jpg
[...]
http://www.messagetoeagle.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/artifunknorigin004.jpg
no age given

source:
http://www.messagetoeagle.com/baffling-ancient-man-made-object-hidden-inside-stone-another-mysterious-prehistoric-high-tech-artifact/
For this one, a fossilization process of some truncated coral (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coral) or ammonite (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonoidea) species needs to be ruled out:


http://www.messagetoeagle.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/artifunknorigin001.jpghttp://vimana.su/upload/image/899/10.jpg



In the case of fossilization, the "shell/exoskeleton" got dissolved and only the inner and outer prints are preserved by the molding, fine-grained sediment (?).

[uzn]

Let´s take a look at the ancient so called earthwork "Labyrinths" that can be found encarved in rock or bigger on the ground. These "Labyrinths" can be found all over the earth.
Just some examples:
Knossos 200 BC
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e5/7e/fd/e57efd10cbb323b00f494698095bc2b2.jpg

Cornwall, England
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/b2/10/c5/b210c5502302b4ab9711a29e7ad5dd3a--labyrinths-maze.jpg

Madhya Pradesh, 250 a. C
https://i.pinimg.com/236x/ea/4b/c3/ea4bc3f65b05f9c85978e9174bcbd9ce.jpg

The "Man In The Maze" is a visual representation of the Tohono O'odham Indians belief in life, death and the life after death. The man at the top of the maze depicts birth. By following the pattern, beginning at the top, the figure goes through the maze encountering many turns and changes, as in life. As the journey continues, one aquires knowledge, strength and understanding. Nearing the end of the maze, one retreats to a small corner of the pattern before reaching the dark center of death and eternal life. Here one repents, cleanses and reflects back on all the wisdom gained. Finally, pure and in harmony with the world, death and eternal life are accepted
http://www.earthart.org/happenings/kiva/images/maze.gif

Isle of Gotland in Sweden - Visby Trojaborg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e4/49/2e/e4492ed8069db386aa77be8d46c0ff1d.jpg

Labyrinth rock carving found at Meis, Galicia, Spain, possibly from the Atlantic Bronze Age (c. 1300–700 BC)
http://68.media.tumblr.com/01f5a42c4b31520ac1e1664976f9b8ee/tumblr_n2nvoisyyC1rgfuxjo1_500.jpg

Now let´s look at russias.
https://i1.wp.com/weirdrussia.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Location.png?w=800

Bolshoi Zayatsky Island
https://i1.wp.com/weirdrussia.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Labyrinths-Bolshoi-Zayatsky-Island6.jpg?w=1200

These are all the different Labyrinths that have been found so far.
http://weirdrussia.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Labyrinths-Bolshoi-Zayatsky-Island7.jpg

[uzn]

Skywizard made a Thread about the Labyrinths of Bolshoi Zayatsky Island not long ago:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?96017-Ancient-Stone-Labyrinths-of-Bolshoi-Zayatsky

https://i1.wp.com/weirdrussia.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Labyrinths-Bolshoi-Zayatsky-Island3.jpg

https://i1.wp.com/weirdrussia.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Labyrinths-Bolshoi-Zayatsky-Island4.jpg

https://i1.wp.com/weirdrussia.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Labyrinths-Bolshoi-Zayatsky-Island5.jpg

https://i2.wp.com/weirdrussia.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Labyrinths-Bolshoi-Zayatsky-Island8.jpg

https://i0.wp.com/weirdrussia.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Labyrinths-Bolshoi-Zayatsky-Island11.jpg

https://i1.wp.com/weirdrussia.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Labyrinths-Bolshoi-Zayatsky-Island12.jpg

https://i1.wp.com/weirdrussia.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Labyrinths-Bolshoi-Zayatsky-Island13.jpg

https://i1.wp.com/weirdrussia.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Labyrinths-Bolshoi-Zayatsky-Island14.jpg

[uzn]

https://i0.wp.com/weirdrussia.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Labyrinths-Bolshoi-Zayatsky-Island15.jpg

Labyrinths are rare through out the world and are valuable archaeological monuments. In the world approximately 300 have been preserved . The 13 – 14 stone labyrinths found on Bolshoi Zayatsky Island belong to the best preserved ones found anywhere on the planet.
These labyrinths are made of stones which have been laid on the surface of soil. Although just 1.35 kilometres square Bolshoi Zayatsky Island is actually one of the 6 large Solovetsky Islands. The island covered with boulders, moss and large bushes is renowned for its unique collection of Neolithic structures – stone labyrinths, barrows and ancient sanctuaries all dating back to 3,000 BC. The labyrinths are concentrated in a small area on the western part of the island. The diameter of the labyrinths is between six and twenty-four metres and they are for the most part formed of boulders set in a row. The rows are twisted in the form of a spiral. Often there are two spirals set one into another resembling two serpents with their heads in the middle looking at each other. Along the spiral there are intermittent wider heaps of stones and the ends of the spirals are widened as well. Although the labyrinths have five types of setting, each one of them has got one entrance, which also serves as an exit. Their purpose is a mystery, though it has been suggested that they can symbolise a border between our world and the underworld and that the labyrinth was used for specific rituals to help the souls of the deceased travel to another world. In the eastern part of the island there is another enormous complex of stone settings, which does not include any labyrinths.

Source:
https://hague6185.wordpress.com/2013/10/15/labyrinths-of-bolshoi-zayatsky-island/

But there are more in russia. Not so long ago, in 1987, was found a rather unusual place, which is called the Arch. The settlement was discovered in the Chelyabinsk region archaeological Expedition. Close to it:
http://runknown.com/Photos/4c20f316-e880-4477-b256-8e3c9a315340/ab190bd4-5c34-4ef3-b3a0-4b18e8856754.jpg

And a Spiral or circular structure
http://runknown.com/Photos/4c20f316-e880-4477-b256-8e3c9a315340/d4c19816-19ca-441b-b7c3-050d34d07237.jpg

http://runknown.com/Photos/4c20f316-e880-4477-b256-8e3c9a315340/2284d7df-3de3-4b04-9705-3a358864d741.jpg

[uzn]

If you dont want to use some old who knows who already used it Labyrinth, make your own:
http://www.schlangengesang.de/gfx/laby/1.jpg
http://www.schlangengesang.de/gfx/laby/2.jpg
http://www.schlangengesang.de/gfx/laby/3.jpg
http://www.schlangengesang.de/gfx/laby/4.jpg
http://www.schlangengesang.de/gfx/laby/5.jpg
http://www.schlangengesang.de/gfx/laby/6.jpg
http://www.schlangengesang.de/gfx/laby/7.jpg
http://www.schlangengesang.de/gfx/laby/8.jpg
http://www.schlangengesang.de/gfx/laby/9.jpg
voila

[uzn]

Spirals at Arkaim (have posted about the site Arkaim before(aka Swastika City aka Mandala City))

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a1/%D0%9A%D1%80%D1%83%D0%B3%D0%B8_%D0%90%D1%80%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%B0.jpg

yet another
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cd/%D0%90%D1%80%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%B8%D0%BC_%D0%93%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B0_%D0%A8%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BA%D 0%B0_-_panoramio.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/%D0%A3_%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8B%D1%85_%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B5%D 0%B9.jpg

That´s Arkaim now (2015), the russian have just excavated a tiny bit of it.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/00/%D0%90%D1%80%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%B8%D0%BC_2015.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/78/%D0%97%D0%B0%D1%85%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D1%81_%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B3%D 1%80%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B9_%22%D0%BF%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B9%22.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/%D0%90%D1%80%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%B8%D0%BC.jpg

Arkaim is a very spiritual site for the more holistic russians.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/74/%D0%AE%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%91%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BB%D1%8C._%D0%9F%D0%BE%D0%B4_%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%B1%D0%BE %D0%BC_%D0%90%D1%80%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%B0.jpg

[uzn]

near Sochi Russia is the Kudepsta megalith. I would call it a bench of sorts.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/48/KudepstinskyStownPeople.JPG

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/KudepstaStown.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/72/KudepstaMegalith.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/KudepstinskyStown1.JPG

And a symbol on it.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fa/KudepstinskyArrow.JPG

[Morbid]

there are brief site descriptions on this page. you can use google translate on it.
http://www.chronoton.ru/pra/10-sledov-v-rossii

[Whiskey_Mystic]

I thought you might like this link provided by Grace Cathedral of San Francisco.

Worldwide Labyrinth Locator (https://labyrinthlocator.com/)



(There are two labyrinths at Grace, which I highly recommend to anyone visiting.)

Labyrinths at Grace (https://www.gracecathedral.org/our-labyrinths/)

https://www.gracecathedral.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/TP-labyrinth-6_smaller-768x517.jpg

[uzn]

Some News on the 11.000 years old Shigir Idol that is wooden and about 5 meters high. Many Pictures of it I already posted earlier in this thread.Here the news:


Early art in the Urals: new research on the wooden sculpture from Shigir


http://static.cambridge.org/content/id/urn%3Acambridge.org%3Aid%3Aarticle%3AS0003598X18000480/resource/name/S0003598X18000480_figab.jpeg

The carved wooden object uncovered from the Shigir peat bog in the Sverdlovsk region towards the end of the nineteenth century remains one of the oldest, known examples of monumental anthropomorphic sculpture from anywhere in the world. Recent application of new analytical techniques has led to the discovery of new imagery on its surface, and has pushed the date of the piece back to the earliest Holocene. The results of these recent analyses are placed here in the context of local and extra-local traditions of comparable prehistoric art. This discussion highlights the unique nature of the find and its significance for appreciating the complex symbolic world of Early Holocene hunter-gatherers.

source:
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/early-art-in-the-urals-new-research-on-the-wooden-sculpture-from-shigir/1EE151AB1E571968B10267E48B78362A


This 11,000-year-old statue unearthed in Siberia may reveal ancient views of taboos and demons

http://www.sciencemag.org/sites/default/files/styles/inline__450w__no_aspect/public/shigir_idol_online.jpg

Carved markings cover both front and back of the Shigir Idol, which was originally 5 meters tall. (Top to bottom) TOLMACHEV V. Y./WIKIMEDIA COMMONS; SVERDLOVSK REGIONAL MUSEUM
This 11,000-year-old statue unearthed in Siberia may reveal ancient views of taboos and demons
By Andrew CurryApr. 25, 2018 , 7:00 AM
In 1894, gold prospectors digging up a peat bog near the Russian city of Yekaterinburg unearthed something bizarre: a carved wooden idol 5 meters long. Carefully smoothed into a plank, the piece was covered front and back with recognizable human faces and hands, along with zigzag lines and other mysterious details. It also had a recognizably human head, with its mouth open in an “o.” For more than a century, the statue was displayed as a curiosity in a Yekaterinburg museum, assumed to be at most a few thousand years old.
This week, a paper published in the journal Antiquity argues that the statue was crafted from a single larchwood log 11,600 years ago, making it one of the world’s oldest examples of monumental art. In age and appearance although not material, the authors write, the so-called Shigir Idol resembles the stone sculptures of Göbekli Tepe in Turkey, which are often cited as the first monumental ritual structures. Both monuments represent a leap beyond the naturalistic images of the ice age.
The idol also shows that large-scale, complex art emerged in more than one place—and that it was the handiwork of hunter-gatherers and not, as was once assumed, of later farming societies. “We have to conclude hunter-gatherers had complex ritual and expression of ideas. Ritual doesn’t start with farming, but with hunter-gatherers,” says Thomas Terberger, an archaeologist at the University of Göttingen in Germany and a co-author of the paper.
The first radiocarbon dating of the idol, in the 1990s, yielded a startlingly early date: 9800 years old. But many scholars rejected the result as implausibly old. They argued that hunter-gatherers couldn’t have produced such a large sculpture, nor have had the complex symbolic imagination to decorate it.
New samples were taken in 2014. At a 2015 press conference in Yekaterinburg, team members announced (before the results were peer reviewed), that these samples revealed even older dates, moving the age of the sculpture back 1500 years, to a time when the world was still transitioning out of the last ice age.
The new dates come from samples taken from the core of the log, uncontaminated by earlier efforts to conserve the wood. “The further you go inside, the older [the date] becomes—it’s very indicative some sort of preservative or glue was used” after discovery, says Olaf Jöris, an archaeologist at the Monrepos Archaeological Research Centre and Museum for Human Behavioural Evolution in Neuwied, Germany, who wasn’t involved with the study. An antler carving discovered near the original find spot in the 19th century yielded similar dates, adding credibility to the result.
The date places the statue at a time when forests were spreading across a warmer, postglacial Eurasia. As the landscape changed, art did, too, perhaps as a way to help people come to grips with the unfamiliar forest environments they were navigating, says Peter Vang Petersen, an archaeologist at The National Museum of Denmark in Copenhagen who was not involved with the study. “Figurative art in the Paleolithic and naturalistic animals painted in caves and carved in rock all stop at the end of the ice age. From then on, you have very stylized patterns that are hard to interpret,” Petersen says. “They’re still hunters, but they had another view of the world.”
At a conference in Yekaterinburg last year, experts debated the meaning of the Shigir symbols, comparing them to other art from the period and more recent ethnographic examples. The most similar finds from that time are those at Göbekli, more than 2500 kilometers away, where hunter-gatherers gathered for rituals and carved similar stylized animals on stone pillars more than 5 meters high.
Terberger sees a more recent parallel: the totem poles of the Pacific Northwest, meant to honor gods or venerate ancestors. Co-author and archaeologist Mikhail Zhilin of the Russian Academy of Sciences in Moscow says the idol might depict local forest spirits or demons. Petersen suggests that the zigzag carvings could be a kind of “Keep out!” sign intended to mark a dangerous or taboo space.
The society that carved the idol is starting to come out of the shadows. Equipped with pumps and special equipment, Zhilin has returned to Shigir and another bog site about 50 kilometers away to excavate finds buried several meters deep in the waterlogged soil. He and his team have found hundreds of small bone points and daggers from the same time period, along with elk antlers carved with animal faces.
They’ve also found ample evidence of prehistoric carpentry: stone adzes, other woodworking tools, and even part of a pine log smoothed with an adze. “They knew how to work wood perfectly,” Zhilin says. The idol is a reminder that stone wasn’t the only material people in the past used to make art and monuments—just the one most likely to survive, possibly skewing our understanding of prehistory. “Wood normally doesn’t last,” Terberger says. “I expect there were many more of these and they’re not preserved.”

source:
Science
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/04/11000-year-old-statue-unearthed-siberia-may-reveal-ancient-views-taboos-and-demons

[Bill Ryan]

Bumping this very interesting thread with a new post from Helvetic on his own thread:
(https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?1383-The-Continuing-Search-For-The-Truth&p=1617529&viewfull=1#post1617529)

Paul Stonehill | Mysterious Places in the Urals | June 12, 2024

(https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?1383-The-Continuing-Search-For-The-Truth&p=1617529&viewfull=1#post1617529)Source: Paranormal Research Paul Stonehill youtube (https://www.youtube.com/@paranormalresearchpaul)

3WS1iRZuXws
Description:
...There is a real concentration of mysterious, paranormal and even scary places in the Urals, which at the same time inspire awe and arouse genuine interest. Lovers of everything unusual gather in the Northern and Southern Urals. Most of these locations are intertwined with legends and mysteries...

[Bill Ryan]

Source: Paranormal Research Paul Stonehill youtube (https://www.youtube.com/@paranormalresearchpaul)I've been scanning through Paul Stonehill's many hundreds of uploaded videos (https://www.youtube.com/@paranormalresearchpaul/videos), and OMG, there's some really fascinating material there.

This is a vast Aladdin's Cave of makes-you-think material, ongoing for the last 7 years. He not only covers anomalous ancient sites in Russia and many other regions, but reports on cryptozoology incidents and research in a range of different countries, Russian UFO encounters, the Russian Secret Space Program (which I will absolutely be watching :)), anomalous human abilities (such as teleportation), time travel experiences, and much much more.

He may VERY well deserve his own thread. :thumbsup: If you have even a couple of minutes to spare, do take a quick glance at everything he's posted.

[shaberon]

Interesting. Maybe less mysteriously, I have found a Russian site to be rather pivotal in the human story.


In a sense, it is the story of the AMH or Anatomically Modern Human. The kind that basically has our current ratio and posture of skull, teeth, and so forth, is in the range of about 45,000 years ago.

Curiously, after this event, you find most Neanderthals interbred with AMH.

Otherwise, there is some rather strange evidence concerning the northern hemisphere.

This is about halfway between the early AMH and now, maybe around 25,000 years ago.

Here we are looking at a Russian place called Mal'ta Buret (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mal%27ta%E2%80%93Buret%27_culture).

The site is easy to remember because in his youth it was dug by that famous Defense Minister, Sergei Shoigu.

Recent studies on the remains have found that its inhabitants were:



...genetically "intermediate between modern western Eurasians and Native Americans, but distant from east Asians", and partial genetic ancestors of Siberians, American Indians, and Bronze Age Yamnaya and Botai people of the Eurasian steppe. In particular, modern-day Native Americans, Kets, Mansi, and Selkup have been found to harbour a significant amount of ancestry related to MA-1.


It has pictograms, venuses, tools, stonework, not replicated to this degree anywhere for quite some time.

Strangely, "Mal'ta Boy" MA-1 has Mitochondrial Haplogroup Basal U.


Paradoxically, there are sub-clades such as U5 in Bosnia and other European areas in remains of twice the age! Some of them are thought to be about 45,000 years old, but prove their families must be distant descendants of Basal U, which, so far, has only this single specimen in the whole world.

Also, MA-1 is the only known example of basal Y-DNA R.

At the time, it was the oldest complete genome. Since then, one or maybe two have been found that are thought to be older.

A 2016 genomic study shows that the Mal'ta people have no genetic connections to the Dolní Věstonice people from the Gravettian culture.

Ancestral to both the "Scythians" and Native Americans. That was not supposed to happen in the minds of many.

It has been found in Egypt and Tenerife, Sami, Berber, and Basque. From Kerala to the Ashkenazi. It has virtually identified Ketevan the Martyr, queen of Georgia, buried in India around the 800s.

This is the scope of Haplogroup U (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_U):



The defining mutations (A11467G, A12308G, G12372A) are estimated to have arisen between 43,000 and 50,000 years ago, in the early Upper Paleolithic (around 46,530 ± 3,290 years before present, with a 95% confidence interval per Behar et al., 2012).

In a 2013 study, all but one of the ancient modern human sequences from Europe belonged to maternal haplogroup U, thus confirming previous findings that haplogroup U was the dominant type of Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) in Europe before the spread of agriculture into Europe from the Near East.


This is considered a divergence from the very early period:



Haplogroup U2b2 has been found in the remains of a 4500 year old female excavated from the Rakhigarhi site of Indus Valley civilisation, in present day state of Haryana, India.

Haplogroup U2 has been found in the remains of a 37,000 and 30,000-year-old hunter-gatherer from the Kostyonki, Voronezh Oblast in Central-South European Russia., in 4800 to 4000-year-old human remains from a Beaker culture site of the Late Neolithic in Kromsdorf Germany, and in 2,000-year-old human remains from Bøgebjerggård in Southern Denmark. However, haplogroup U2 is rare in present-day Scandinavians. The remains of a 2,000-year-old West Eurasian male of haplogroup U2e1 was found in the Xiongnu Cemetery of Northeast Mongolia.

and:


Haplogroup U9 is a rare clade in mtDNA phylogeny...Ethiopia and Yemen, Makrani population. In this particular population, lineages specific to parts of Eastern Africa occur as frequently as 39%, which suggests that U9 lineages in Pakistan may have an African origin (Quintana-Murci et al. 2004). Regardless of which coast of the Arabian Sea may have been the origin of U9, its Ethiopian–southern Arabian–Indus Basin distribution hints that the subclade's diversification from U4 may have occurred in regions far away from the current area of the highest diversity and frequency of haplogroup U4—East Europe and western Siberia.


How, exactly, Mal'ta Boy MA-1 represents the basal clade of all these divergences, most of which happened considerably before he was born, is rather curious.

He is at a location that is suddenly larger, more complete and detailed than others, with artifacts that match later development found elsewhere.

There is a whole pile of links on these I could provide. On a physical basis, the site corresponds to the fact the during the Ice Age, there was actually an abundant snow melt off the north side of the Himalayas, so most of central Asia was naturally temperate and irrigated, and was, in all likelihood, the choice real estate on Planet Earth for thousands of years.

This genetic family consists of almost the entire northern hemisphere other than the Chinese and their relations.

Why, exactly, a derivative in Bosnia is among the earliest AMH, and, the only known prototype is much younger in Siberia, is rather puzzling.

In terms of America, it means there was a later, second migratory wave, which results in mixed ancestry for the majority of natives around maybe 10,000 years ago. Nevertheless, some of the first migrants to America were cousins of the Europeans.

[Ravenlocke]

Source: Paranormal Research Paul Stonehill youtube (https://www.youtube.com/@paranormalresearchpaul)I've been scanning through Paul Stonehill's many hundreds of uploaded videos (https://www.youtube.com/@paranormalresearchpaul/videos), and OMG, there's some really fascinating material there.

This is a vast Aladdin's Cave of makes-you-think material, ongoing for the last 7 years. He not only covers anomalous ancient sites in Russia and many other regions, but reports on cryptozoology incidents and research in a range of different countries, Russian UFO encounters, the Russian Secret Space Program (which I will absolutely be watching :)), anomalous human abilities (such as teleportation), time travel experiences, and much much more.

He may VERY well deserve his own thread. :thumbsup: If you have even a couple of minutes to spare, do take a quick glance at everything he's posted.

You got my curiosity, I looked him up on X, here’s a few interesting tweets. He has written a book.

https://x.com/RussianUFOlogy/status/1799900497194688965

1799900497194688965

Philip Mantle has worked with Paul Stonehill.

https://x.com/philip_mantle/status/1699751274609037457

1699751274609037457

https://x.com/mrjeffknox/status/1790280375689990339

1790280375689990339


https://x.com/mrjeffknox/status/1745295714559861036

1745295714559861036


https://x.com/mrjeffknox/status/1745295732700230067

1745295732700230067


https://x.com/RussianUFOlogy/status/1791165278006673540

1791165278006673540


RUSSIAN PROFESSOR AND VATICAN’S ANCIENT ALIENS RECORDS

Professor Genrikh Ludvig, Russian scientist, descendant of Swedes who settled in the Russian Empire, survived the hell of Soviet GULAG, betrayals, tortures, and other amenities of "mature socialism". He remained a human being throughout, he did not break, he did not give in to Stalin's hounds. Professor Ludwig possessed knowledge of ancient civilizations, he knew 20 languages; he traveled around the world in the 1920s, and once he had the opportunity to see the Vatican's archives...

If you would like to support my channel, please donate here:
https://www.patreon.com/user?u=6849546

Op4pyYwUMBw

[Ravenlocke]

https://x.com/mrjeffknox/status/1773233074945261690

1773233074945261690

https://openminds.tv/pilot-cosmonaut-pavel-popovich-ufos/?amp=1

Pilot and Cosmonaut Pavel Popovich and UFOs
June 12, 2014
On September 30th 2009, General-Major of Aviation, Pilot-Cosmonaut Pavel Romanovich Popovich, the first Ukrainian cosmonaut in history, passed away. Always proud of his ethnicity, twice Hero of the Soviet Union award, he had many other awards and medals.

Pavel Popovich was greatly respected; a kind, nice and decent person, always ready to help others. His life was intertwined with the turbulent history of UFO research in the Soviet Union after 1978.

Popovich was born in Soviet Ukraine on October 5, 1929. A young engineer and amateur pilot, Popovich joined the Soviet Air Force; in 1960 he was enrolled in the first team of cosmonauts. Popovich was the Number “Four” Cosmonaut in the history of manned spaceflights. He underwent a full course of training for space flights on board “Vostok” spacecraft.

Pavel Popovich (as a boy) lived under the Nazi occupation for several years, and this fact could sink his chances to become a Soviet cosmonaut. The KGB took several months to study biographies of each of the future cosmonauts; someone must have had the courage to overlook that fact, and let him continue his training.

His first spaceflight was aboard the “Vostok-4” spaceship in 1962. Later, Pavel Popovich was trained for the Soviet Moon research program. After the program was cancelled, Popovich underwent training for flights aboard “Soyuz” spaceships. His second mission into space was as the chief pilot of the Soyuz-14 spaceship in 1974. The flight was part of the Soviet program of military use of space exploration technology. Popovich’s call name was Berkut-1 (Golden Eagle). Having docked with the Salyut 3 orbital station (this was a cover name for the secret battle station Almaz-2), Popovich and his engineer, had conducted military intelligence operations. They had infrared and powerful optical equipment, 14 special cameras, and even one thirty millimeter cannon. One of the tasks was to capture the American Skylab station with three astronauts aboard. The Americans had a special nickname for Popovich: “Aggressor”. But the program later was shut down.

Between the years 1980 to 1989 he served as the Deputy Chief of the Y. Gagarin Cosmonauts Training Center.


President of the UFO Association

In 1990, OYUZUFOTSENTR, the very first official public UFO research organization of the Soviet Union was formed. Its director was V. Ajaja, a former naval officer, a submariner, a long-suffering independent UFO researcher and lecturer. Its president, Pavel Popovich clearly stated in interviews that he headed SOYUZUFOTSENTR on behest of his friends, UFO researchers. Popovich never considered himself to be an expert in the field of ufology. He did help those who tried to research it independently, or as part of the secret Soviet program. His authority and reputation had greatly helped Ajaja’s efforts to keep his organization viable in post-1991 Russia.

Popovich and Setka: A Secret Soviet UFO Research Program

In 1978, the powerful Military-Industrial Commission created two UFO research centers, one in the USSR Academy of Sciences, the other in the USSR Defense Ministry. The anomalous phenomena research in the USSR Academy of Sciences became the subject of a special scientific research program designated as SETKA-AN. The Soviet Ministry of Defense embarked on a similar program, the secret SETKA-MO. Both centers aided each other’s UFO research and exchanged information. The first act of the SETKA-AN resulted in official sanction of “anomalous atmospheric phenomena” as a descriptive term, instead of the forbidden “UFO.”

The SETKA-AN debunkers did its best to prove there are no UFOs, only errors in observation of rocket launches, or at the very least, ball lightning. But there had been occasions when “anomalous phenomena” had led to the unauthorized launches of mobile missiles, and on other occasions, the appearance of UFOs during military training exercises had resulted in the breakdown of radio communications and equipment malfunctions.

The program ended in 1991, but a group of experts remained in the Department of General Physics and Astronomy of the Russian Academy of Sciences where they analyzed incoming reports until 1996.

Scientific arguments regarding the nature of UFOs had been the least of the military researchers’ concerns; they did, however, pay close attention to the hypothesis that UFOs are manifestations of an ET civilization. They had been concerned with UFOs’ quite unpredictable impact on military technology and on personnel. They wanted to know how they could use UFO properties for their own pragmatic military needs.

In 1984, by the decision of VSNTO (All-Union Council of Scientific Technical Societies), a Central Commission for Anomalous Phenomena in the Environment was created. Its Chairman was Soviet academician V. Troitsky, one of his deputies was General-Major of Aviation, Pilot-Cosmonaut P. Popovich.

The Commission was born because those in charge of the academic research of the SETKA program basically got rid of independent UFO researchers, leaving only the debunkers together with military specialists from secret military institutes in the program.

Independent Soviet ufologists did not take the continuous scorn from debunkers lying down, and basically moved the Academy of Sciences aside, by directly approaching military coordinators of the secret program. The initiative to create the Commission was supported by military researchers, who were tired of fruitless activities of the academic debunkers. The Commission included also those who served the Ministry of Defense research. Pavel Popovich played a role in its workings, although due to the secrecy and his oath, he had not revealed all he knew.

According to Popovich, most of the information about anomalous phenomena came from military and pilots, trusted, sane and healthy people. Among the reports many were nonsensical, but some were historically important. UFO data started being reported from the days of W.W.II. During the Kursk Battle, Soviet aviators and witnesses on the ground observed mysterious objects in the sky. He revealed this in the April, 2009 interview to the Ukrainian web portal DonbassUA. The Kursk episode is described in detail in Mysterious Sky: Soviet UFO Phenomenon.

On May 29 1984, Trud newspaper published an article where Popovich told the author about a case that took place on March 27, 1983, in Gorky (and investigated by the Commission’s Gorky section). It was an object that flew in the area of the city’s airport. The airport’s radars registered but could not identify the object. The object flew at the altitude of no more than one kilometer, and the speed approximately 180-200 kilometers per hour. The witness (Flight Controller A. Shushkin) who had observed the object said that the object’s size was similar to that of the IL-14 aircraft fuselage. But there were no wings. It was a “cigar”. Its color light gray, steely, and it moved slowly across the sky. The phenomenon lasted around forty minutes. At the distance of 30 to 40 kilometers NE from the airport the radars lost it. Shushkin later corrected Pavel Popovich and said the UFO actually appeared over the city on March 28, 1983; flew at an altitude of 400-600 meters, and disappeared ten seconds after it was sighted.

A more dramatic, episode took place in January of 1978, and Popovich described it to Sotsialisticheskaya Industriya newspaper on August 6, 1984.

During the flight of a YAK-40 over the area between two settlements Medvezhye and Nadim, the crew noticed something round; a very bright foreign body that approached rapidly and sometime later appeared straight in front of the aircraft. Every minute the size of this body increased. When the crash appeared to be imminent, the object soared right in front of the aircraft’s nose, not causing any harm.
The KGB UFO Files

In 1991, a file of KGB documents was provided to Pavel Popovich (he had urged them to release the information). It was the Second Chief Directorate of the KGB (Counterintelligence), or rather the Tenth Department within the Directorate (Control of the defense facilities) that had received UFO information. The file (124 pages of printed text) contained copies of UFO reports: handwritten reports, typed testimonies, and notes from KGB informers, crude drawings and eyewitness reports of UFOs. An accompanying letter was written by the Deputy Chairman of the Committee for State Security USSR, N.A. Sham. This cooperation between UFO researchers and the KGB was unprecedented and was a landmark in UFO research in the Soviet Union and possibly the world.

Years later Sham stated that the KGB was not engaged in research of anomalous phenomena (he pointed to the SETKA program as the responsible entity for such research).

Roswell

In 1992, on behest of UFO researchers, Pavel Popovich had contacted two Russian ministries, to find out whether the Soviet-era archives contained documents pertaining to the Roswell Crash. The reply from the Ministry of Defense stated that the officials of the Central Archive of the Ministry of Defense had conducted search of the materials of interest to Popovich. They did not find any Roswell materials. The second reply came from the Ministry of Security of the Russian federation. No documentary materials about the case of the “flying saucer” crash in the area of Roswell, USA in the year 1947 were discovered, it stated.

Soviet intelligence, quite active in the United States in 1940s, would not miss the Roswell Crash controversy.

Revelations

After every interview Pavel Popovich had to sign a special document stating that he did not reveal any state secrets. He never did tell all he knew, a military person loyal to his oath.

In 2006, Pavel Popovich gave an interview to Bul’var Gordona, a Ukrainian magazine. (Issue 31[67]). He said that the inhabitants of Phaeton or Moonah (an ancient planet with advanced civilization, believed to exist next to Earth ages ago, but perished due to nuclear explosions) probably visit Earth from time to time.

The visitors’ intermediate base is located in the area of Saturn, and they have three bases on Earth. One of them is in the Andes, the other in the Indian Ocean trench, and the third one is located in the Himalayas, the famous Shambala. The base in the Andes they liquidated because human civilization came too close. But they do have an underwater base at the bottom of the Indian Ocean trench.

Then Pavel Popovich recalled his UFO sighting in 1978, while aboard an airplane flying from Washington to Moscow returning from Pittsburgh, where academicians attended the international Gagarin Readings conference (they had also observed the strange object).

The altitude was 10,500 meters. Popovich recalled that something urged him to keep looking (he was sitting by the window). He noticed about a white, isosceles triangle about a kilometer and a half from the plane and some ten degrees higher (as he and others had estimated). The cosmonaut shouted, ran to the crew. The onboard radar did not register anything, and nothing was registered on the ground.

The crew also observed the object, and they determined that its side was about 100 meters. The object did not resemble any known aircraft. It moved rapidly; the airplane flew at the speed of one thousand kilometers per hour, while the object traveled about time and a half faster. This flying object easily overtook them, and flew forth, but they stayed within the range of vision for a minute. They, the professionals, could not determine what the object was.

Popovich could not state that his sighting was really a secret weapon being tested, although in 90 percent of such observations this is so.

Pavel Popovich said that he did not believe any of the contactees. In the 2001 FAKTY interview Popovich said that 95 percent of everything written about UFOs should be discarded as nonsense.

In the same interview with Bul’var Gordona Popovich was asked whether he, a pilot and cosmonaut who grew up in the atheistic (sometimes, militantly so) society, believed in God.

He replied that he was baptized. And in 1974, during his spaceflight he understood that there is someone who had created stars outside the spacecraft’s porthole, the Moon, and other planets. When one sees this, one understands how infinite everything is. Popovich recalled thinking: “someone had created it, and someone directs it all”. Who has created the laws of celestial mechanics? All we did was to use them, to discern them, to explain them. That is why he thought about God. No matter what one calls him, there is the Creator who has created everything.

Conclusion

Popovich lived his final years in a settlement near Moscow, dubbed Star Village because 36 former cosmonauts reside there. He had a dream to be able to fly the spacecraft into space again, to look at Earth from above. The name of Pavel Popovich was given to a mountain ridge in Antarctica and a minor planet.

This story was sent to us by Paul Stonehill and was co-written by Philip Mantle. It was originally posted on the Russian news website, Pravda.

[Bill Ryan]

Copying this new post from onawah (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103634-Discoveries-that-have-transformed-our-understanding-of-human-history&p=1624003&viewfull=1#post1624003) here: :thumbsup:

~~~

Pre-Historic Underground Megastructure Found in Russia - Khara-Hora Shaft
Universe Inside You
1.95M subscribers
Jul 19, 2024

"The remote and rugged region in the North Caucasus, in the Kabardino-Balkaria Republic of the Russian Federation, is a place of towering mountains and untamed wilderness. Yet, in 2011, Arthur Zhemukhov, who is a Russian speleologist, which is the scientific study and exploration of caves, made an astonishing discovery at the Khara-Hora mountain peak. There, he found a deep, narrow, vertical shaft, seemingly swallowed by the Earth itself. It was made of parallel stone slabs that seemed perfectly geometrical as if they were artificially made. The walls were straight and polished, extending 40 meters or 130 feet deep into the mountain, before opening into a wide underground hall. The straight walls of this shaft were constructed from large megalithic blocks that fitted together at right angles with minimal gaps. There were even large stones that looked like columns.

Alexander Sploshnov's Albums from his expeditions: https://vk.com/album2046795_247444491 "

https://vk.com/album2046795_251070673J1QDP-Oqcr0

[DNA]

I just watched that Khora-Hara cave video about the cave in Russia.
Wow!!!
Reminds me of the 1909 cave found in the grand canyon.
It appears to be the air duct system for something larger and deeper.
Fascinating...
The initial explorers from 2011 and 2015 won't be visiting anymore.
They are all dead.
Bad luck it appears. From car accidents to disease.
Reminds me of a story from world War 2 about some wounded soldiers hiding out in a cave that seemed to be more than just a natural cave system.
I can't remember any search parameters so I wouldn't have a clue how to find it again.

Regardless
This is a great stand alone story.
The video is great. Very much worth the watch.
My guess is that this man made cave leads to a underground city.
Ancient. Probably pre-diluvian.
Is it still occupied is the question burning in me. :)

J1QDP-Oqcr0

[shaberon]

I tried to find some context for this, and could not, as it is not listed among the mountains of Kabardino-Balkaria (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabardino-Balkaria) or in the Caucasus Mountains (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasus_Mountains). Moreover, I do not think that is a great namesake for a "race", because human beings appear to have marginally and recently crossed into there:


Crossing the Caucasus Mountain range was an important section of the northern arm of the Silk Route. Tusheti shepherds of Georgia have been herding livestock to seasonal grazing grounds, a practice known as transhumance for over 10,000 years.

It is known that modern-day Circassians also called Kassogs were inhabiting Kabardino Balkaria since at least the 6th century BCE, then known as Zichia.


Instead there is a reason it may have been avoided since around 2.5 million years ago:


Elbrus is an almost symmetrical dormant volcano, in a vertical plane, with two main peaks, on either side of a pass located at 5,416 metres above sea level: the western summit is the highest point at 5,642 metres above sea level. while the eastern summit rises to 5,621 meters.

Elbrus was active in the Holocene, and according to the Global Volcanism Program, the last eruption took place about AD 50.


You can tell how serious it is:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/52/NEO_elbrus_big.jpg/625px-NEO_elbrus_big.jpg




Not much indication of human settlement until it was, and still is, Circassian.

Curiously, the winters are not as harsh as other places that are about 45 deg. north. Those heights are permanently snowcapped, but, the valleys are absolutely gorgeous and I would take it as highly desirable to settle, unless, for instance, volcanoes and related earthquakes prevented it.

[Bill Ryan]

The initial explorers from 2011 and 2015 won't be visiting anymore.
They are all dead.
Bad luck it appears. From car accidents to disease. A personal note here. :flower:

I met with Vadim Chernobrov and his team in Moscow back in 2007, several years before he'd explored the Khara-Hora cave. He was a delightful, friendly, immensely knowledgeable, intelligent and aware polymath who was interested in (and researched prolifically) literally everything under the sun.

We all spent the best part of a day together, and we hit it off wonderfully (with the help of an excellent translator, as his English was as non-existent as my Russian).

But I never knew he'd died of cancer until I saw the video above. His passing is an enormous loss to the Russian research community.

:heart:

Some of you might very much appreciate this raw (unedited) 26-minute video taken during our meeting, which has never been published.

https://avalonlibrary.net/Bill/Chernobrov.mp4

https://avalonlibrary.net/Bill/Chernobrov.mp4

[DNA]

The initial explorers from 2011 and 2015 won't be visiting anymore.
They are all dead.
Bad luck it appears. From car accidents to disease. A personal note here. :flower:

I met with Vadim Chernobrov and his team in Moscow back in 2007, several years before he'd explored the Khara-Hora cave. He was a delightful, friendly, immensely knowledgeable, intelligent and aware polymath who was interested in (and researched prolifically) literally everything under the sun.

We all spent the best part of a day together, and we hit it off wonderfully (with the help of an excellent translator, as his English was as non-existent as my Russian).

But I never knew he'd died of cancer until I saw the video above. His passing is an enormous loss to the Russian research community.

:heart:

Some of you might very much appreciate this raw (unedited) 26-minute video taken during our meeting, which has never been published.

https://avalonlibrary.net/Bill/Chernobrov.mp4

https://avalonlibrary.net/Bill/Chernobrov.mp4








Interesting interview.
I was shocked to hear Kerry at the end.
She was behind the camera the whole time.
That was a nice surprise. :)

I couldn't really follow the time travel talk but it sounded like he was talking about the Kozyrev mirror.
Invented in Russia by behavior researchers looking to monitor human consciousness free from electro-magnetic energy.
Something apparently happened that untethered the subjects. Untethered them from the collective conformity of agreed upon consciousness. Unconscious and otherwise.
Imagine if you will that there is a very important micro second where reality is translated before we are allowed to process it.
And as in almost all editing,,, there is a censoring of quite a bit of material.
This mirror seems to allow pure uncensored information to come through.

a9hwXoCrEUs

Even time is something that can be kind of untethered.
I'm reminded of the movie PRIMER where they get into a contraption they make very much like the Kozyrev mirror and describe its maneuver as untethering them from time.

Fg7cPjQWjKg

I'm reminded of the idea that earth is under the effects of Saturn..
That time as we know it is an artificial constraint placed upon us through some electro magnetic means and this is why the Kozyrev mirror works.

Lastly...
Billy Meier of the Plieadian picture taking contact notes, states that there is a universal telepathic symbol language.
A universal common language all telepathic space faring races learn.
Those who spend time in the Kozyrev mirror contraption universally describe and write down a symbol language streamed to them that they do not understand but,,, is the same written down by multiple experiencers that have had no contact with one another.

Pretty cool stuff 😎

[onawah]

I don't know how credible this source is, but the explanation of how the mirror works is interesting, as are other subjects that he has created videos about.
Time Mirrors: Experiments at the North Pole
Mr. Mythos
622K subscribers
973,184 views
Mar 31, 2023

"The Kozyrev Mirror was a theoretical time machine proposed by the Soviet astrophysicist Nikolai Kozyrev. After it was built, experiments were conducted at the North Pole, and the events to follow became infamous for their extreme degree of extraterrestrial - and possibly interdimensional - activity.

🌌 Nikola Tesla: The Man, Myth, and Conspiracy ➤ • Nikola Tesla: The Man, Myth, and Cons...

🌠 The STARGATE Project: The CIA's Psychic Spies Revealed! ➤ • The Stargate Project

🏔️ Nicholas Roerich: US Expedition to an Inner Earth Kingdom ➤ • US Expedition to an Inner Earth Kingdom

Looking for more strange scientific mysteries? Check out my playlist! ➤ • Science & Mysticism "

WP1uNa45_Yk




The initial explorers from 2011 and 2015 won't be visiting anymore.
They are all dead.
Bad luck it appears. From car accidents to disease. A personal note here. :flower:
I met with Vadim Chernobrov and his team in Moscow back in 2007, several years before he'd explored the Khara-Hora cave. He was a delightful, friendly, immensely knowledgeable, intelligent and aware polymath who was interested in (and researched prolifically) literally everything under the sun.

We all spent the best part of a day together, and we hit it off wonderfully (with the help of an excellent translator, as his English was as non-existent as my Russian).

But I never knew he'd died of cancer until I saw the video above. His passing is an enormous loss to the Russian research community.
:heart:
Some of you might very much appreciate this raw (unedited) 26-minute video taken during our meeting, which has never been published.


Pretty cool stuff 😎

[DNA]

I'll check it out Natalie.
Mr. Mythos is a favorite of mine. His videos are top notch. He is an amazing researcher as well as being an entertaining presenter.
Though I've not watched the one you presented I look forward to it.
If you get a chance you should watch his Malta video it's the best source on the mysterious Malta that I've ever seen.

Edit---------------------

Watched the video. It's okay, not one of his strongest. Very straight forward from a single source. Not enough multiple source entries to feel validation through correlation.

In that spirit I'll enter this.
I'm reminded of Wilhiem Reich''s orgone generator experiments.
A lot of the same effects especially in terms of UFOs showing up to see what is going on.
Both Kozrev's mirror and the orgone accumulator affected the weather as well.

But here is the problem.
No contemporary practitioners can recreate a scenario or situation that matches the original stories for these inventions.

[onawah]

Paul Cook on youtube has been making a lot of interesting videos featuring his explorations of Malta, as well as pre-flood structures in other regions, which is his main interest.
He's no academic, but a tireless and very enthusiastic explorer.
I'll check out more from Mr. Mythos. I liked his video about the magic mirror because I could sort of understand his description of how the discovery was made.
It seemed like there were entities from elsewhere interacting with the human subjects of the original experiences.
Perhaps they decided to shut the invention down once they realized how dangerous interacting more directly with Earth humans could potentially be.
I'll check it out Natalie.
Mr. Mythos is a favorite of mine. His videos are top notch. He is an amazing researcher as well as being an entertaining presenter.
Though I've not watched the one you presented I look forward to it.
If you get a chance you should watch his Malta video it's the best source on the mysterious Malta that I've ever seen.

Edit---------------------

Watched the video. It's okay, not one of his strongest. Very straight forward from a single source. Not enough multiple source entries to feel validation through correlation.

In that spirit I'll enter this.
I'm reminded of Wilhiem Reich''s orgone generator experiments.
A lot of the same effects especially in terms of UFOs showing up to see what is going on.
Both Kozrev's mirror and the orgone accumulator affected the weather as well.

But here is the problem.
No contemporary practitioners can recreate a scenario or situation that matches the original stories for these inventions.

[DNA]

It seemed like there were entities from elsewhere interacting with the human subjects of the original experiences.
Perhaps they decided to shut the invention down once they realized how dangerous interacting more directly with Earth humans could potentially be.


That is exactly what I was thinking.

I was thinking of a passage in the Carlos Castaneda books.
Don Juan instructs Carlos to make a specific mirror with a strong frame. Don Juan is adamant that mirrors can be portals.
Especially in conjuction with water.
A pulley and rope are used to lower the mirror into a stream of running water, it's lowered into the water and Carlos is instructed to mediate on the mirror.
Carlos then sees a non-organic being, something akin to a djinn.

This is from memory so please forgive.

Mirrors often are mentioned in lore as having portal related properties.

Is there something reacting to new found methods of engaging the control mechanism?

Wilhiem Reich with his Orgone accumulator and the Kozyrev mirror. Have the prison guards caught on to certain weaknesses?

[Bill Ryan]

Copying this new post by onawah (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103634-Discoveries-that-have-transformed-our-understanding-of-human-history&p=1630209&viewfull=1#post1630209) on the Discoveries that have transformed our understanding of human history (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103634-Discoveries-that-have-transformed-our-understanding-of-human-history) thread:

~~~

PreHistoric Megalithic Complex in Karelia, Russia - Vottovaara Mountain

Universe Inside You
Aug 22, 2024

"The Vottovaara Mountain, situated in the Republic of Karelia of Russia, is a place revered for its powerful energy and worshipped as a sacred site for thousands of years by ancient Saami tribes and shamans. The site has numerous strange megalithic structures and ruins, which many believe could not have occurred naturally. For example, there are approximately 1600 sacred stones called "seids" which are arranged here in a mysterious order. There’s a structure called the well, which locals believe is an artificially constructed ancient megalithic water reservoir."

YXKv7HqpwCk

[Ravenlocke]

The initial explorers from 2011 and 2015 won't be visiting anymore.
They are all dead.
Bad luck it appears. From car accidents to disease. A personal note here. :flower:

I met with Vadim Chernobrov and his team in Moscow back in 2007, several years before he'd explored the Khara-Hora cave. He was a delightful, friendly, immensely knowledgeable, intelligent and aware polymath who was interested in (and researched prolifically) literally everything under the sun.

We all spent the best part of a day together, and we hit it off wonderfully (with the help of an excellent translator, as his English was as non-existent as my Russian).

But I never knew he'd died of cancer until I saw the video above. His passing is an enormous loss to the Russian research community.

:heart:

Some of you might very much appreciate this raw (unedited) 26-minute video taken during our meeting, which has never been published.

https://avalonlibrary.net/Bill/Chernobrov.mp4

https://avalonlibrary.net/Bill/Chernobrov.mp4

Thanks Bill for this interview, it’s a real treat!

What a really nice guy, nice people actually. Really comfortable to listen to them talk in russian and english (the lady interpreter).

I was a little disappointed that he got interrupted when he was about to explain that part about the americans went / didnt go to the moon and that both thoughts, yes and no are right. I was curious as to what his explanation was going to be.

The time travel part was very interesting!

[DNA]

Copying this new post by onawah (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103634-Discoveries-that-have-transformed-our-understanding-of-human-history&p=1630209&viewfull=1#post1630209) on the Discoveries that have transformed our understanding of human history (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?103634-Discoveries-that-have-transformed-our-understanding-of-human-history) thread:

~~~

PreHistoric Megalithic Complex in Karelia, Russia - Vottovaara Mountain

Universe Inside You
Aug 22, 2024

"The Vottovaara Mountain, situated in the Republic of Karelia of Russia, is a place revered for its powerful energy and worshipped as a sacred site for thousands of years by ancient Saami tribes and shamans. The site has numerous strange megalithic structures and ruins, which many believe could not have occurred naturally. For example, there are approximately 1600 sacred stones called "seids" which are arranged here in a mysterious order. There’s a structure called the well, which locals believe is an artificially constructed ancient megalithic water reservoir."

YXKv7HqpwCk

The Votovaara Mountain translates to mountain of death...
No animals live in this place.
No fish in the lakes of this place.
The trees don't grow right, they twist and turn back into the ground. Experts at a loss as to why.
This place reads like some kind of HP Lovecraft story.
Like a dark malevolent diety sleeping in the earth is toxic in its proximity to life on earth.
The stone markers left to warn all who happen upon the area.

Just gotta say this would not be on my short list for vacation destinations...

[onawah]

Actually, the locals love it there, and say the energy is wonderful.
Whatever is there (or was created there) seems to be of a higher vibration, one that trees and animals can't withstand but that humans resonate with.
It wasn't the Samii or the shamans who have branded it as negative, and they are the ones who have lived in that area far longer than anyone else...




The Votovaara Mountain translates to mountain of death...
No animals live in this place.
No fish in the lakes of this place.
The trees don't grow right, they twist and turn back into the ground. Experts at a loss as to why.
This place reads like some kind of HP Lovecraft story.
Like a dark malevolent diety sleeping in the earth is toxic in its proximity to life on earth.
The stone markers left to warn all who happen upon the area.

Just gotta say this would not be on my short list for vacation destinations...

[onawah]

Pre-Historic Megastructures of Russia In The Remote Wilderness
Universe Inside You
1.97M subscribers
Aug 30, 2024

(Of special note, starting at 2 minutes into the video, an enormous megalithic granite wall was found by researchers in 2013 in a very remote area in Russia on the mountain Gornya Shoria, estimated to be at least 100,000 years old.)

"Russia is a land of vast steppes, dense forests, rugged mountains, and frozen tundra, a land that stretches endlessly in every direction. In this land, there are regions so remote and untouched that they remain almost entirely unexplored. Spanning eleven time zones and covering more than six million square miles, Russia's wilderness holds secrets that have eluded discovery for millennia. Within this immense expanse, the ground conceals remnants of ancient civilizations and massive pre-historic megastructures that challenge our understanding of the past. In these remote corners of the earth, where human footprints are few and far between, These prehistoric relics, often overshadowed by the sheer immensity of the Russian landscape, whisper of an age long forgotten, a time when unknown hands shaped the land in ways that still baffle archaeologists and historians alike. What ancient forces or lost civilizations left their mark on this remote corner of the world?"

NvzxNm3Mxcs

[shaberon]

"The Vottovaara Mountain, situated in the Republic of Karelia of Russia, is a place revered for its powerful energy and worshipped as a sacred site for thousands of years by ancient Saami tribes and shamans.



Here we can use the natives against their will for a medical procedure.


It's not that invasive. The Sami will come up as an example in something I would say has a lot of explanatory power here.

That is, in the interest of developing a human story out of loose data.

Seeing two very divergent kinds of feedback about the same people/site, is part of why there is a type of "organizing" that needs to take place.


First of all, from human remains that have been found, there is evidence of small-scale but wide migration around 30,000 years ago. Siberians had already entered the Americas around parts of Alaska. But then there is a tremendous bottleneck caused by the Ice Age which was at its most severe around:

25,000 to 18,000 ybp



During this time, humanity appears to have "subsisted" in certain Refuges. When the Ice Age dissipates, then you find migrations we can identify, such as the Siberians expanded from Alaska to Tierra del Fuego. The group which had remained in Siberia expanded to Pakistan, India, Yemen, and Ethiopia.

This is represented by a single primary site from the Ice Age (https://aratta.wordpress.com/2016/12/12/on-the-origin-of-the-indo-europeans/):


The Mal’ta-Buret’ culture is an archaeological culture of the Upper Paleolithic (c. 24,000 to 15,000 BP) on the upper Angara River in the area west of Lake Baikal in the Irkutsk Oblast, Siberia, Russian Federation. The type sites are named for the villages of Mal’ta (Мальта), Usolsky District and Buret’ (Буреть), Bokhansky District (both in Irkutsk Oblast).

According to research published in 2013 and 2016 the Mal’ta people belonged to an extinct population closely related to a population who contributed substantially to the genetic ancestry of Siberians, Native Americans and Bronze Age Yamnaya people. The Mal’ta-Buret’ population were also found to be genetically close to modern-day Native Americans, Kets, Nganasans and Yukaghirs.

They are also closely connected to later, Bronze Age cultures which spread throughout Europe and Central Asia, especially the Corded Ware people, but also the Bell Beakers as well as the peoples of the Andronovo, Sintashta, and Srubna cultures.


The genetic sample MA-1 is a combination of Basal R* and U* that has not been found elsewhere. This is rather odd, since variations or sub-clades have been discovered on much older samples. For some reason, this Siberian is undiluted or unmodified from the earliest stock.


When you start putting ages and locations on things, we discover a very distinct form of "marriage".

Most of your historical cycles can be seen in the combination of male R1a (https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/25/8/1651/1110631):


In addition, an ancient connection between the Caucasus/Europe and India has been revealed by analysis of haplogroup R1 diversity, with a split between the Indian and Caucasus/European R1a lineages occurring about 16,500 years ago.



with female U4 (https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_U4_mtDNA.shtml):


Based on the small number of Mesolithic samples tested to date, U4 seems to have been much more common in Northeast Europe than elsewhere. This would make sense since it correlates strongly with Y-haplogroup R1a nowadays.

Haplogroup U4 make a strong come back during the Bronze Age, where it is found at high frequency among remains from the Proto-Indo-European Corded Ware culture and Catacomb culture (a staggering 25% of the 28 samples, see Wilde et al. 2014)), both associated with the diffusion of R1a to Central Europe and Scandinavia. U4 also shows up in the Unetice culture, a mixed R1a and R1b culture that existed around what is now Germany. The subclades identified for the Corded Ware and Unetice cultures were respectively U4a1 and U4c1. Both of these subclades are also found in Central Asia today, confirming the Indo-European connection.


Also (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_U):


U4 has been found in ancient DNA, and it is relatively rare in modern populations, although it is found in substantial ratios in certain indigenous populations of Northern Asia and Northern Europe, being associated with the remnants of ancient European hunting-gatherers preserved in the indigenous populations of Siberia.

It is found in Europe with highest concentrations in Scandinavia and the Baltic states. and is found in the Sami population of the Scandinavian peninsula (although, U5b has a higher representation). U4 is also preserved in the Kalash people (current population size 3,700) a unique tribe among the Indo-Aryan peoples of Pakistan where U4 (subclade U4a1) attains its highest frequency of 34%.


This shows us one maternal group:



U4a : found in Mesolithic Serbia and Karelia, Neolithic Ukraine, Chalcolithic Bulgaria

U4a1: found in northern and central Europe, Cantabria, in Central Asia (Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan), Iran, Pakistan (Kalash, Balochi) and India / found in Mesolithic Latvia, Neolithic Ukraine, in EBA Moldova (Cucuteni-Trypillia culture) and in Bronze Age Russia (Fatyanovo culture)

Remains identified as subclade U4a2 are associated with the Corded Ware culture.


Distinguished from another:



U4b : found in Mesolithic and Neolithic Ukraine


This marker makes sense, because what seems to go on in Russia is a northern stream that is not the same as the southern group. So far most linguists and historians have tried to say the Ukrainian Yamnaya took over everything and built all the modernized stuff, but this is untrue.

During urbanization, there was a separate settlement wave at Sintashta (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sintashta).

Its direct ancestry is not from the Pontic Steppe or Ukraine--instead there is a closer genetic relationship of Sintashta to Corded Ware (https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2018/04/the-mystery-of-sintashta-people.html).


Now if we look at the map of R1a distribution, it is basically the same as "the language":


https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-c544eb456ea9946afb69fdc5a68bac2d-pjlq




It won't post, but, there is a western map of U4 (https://www.eupedia.com/images/content/mtDNA-U4-map.png), which you see similarly concentrated in Poland and the Baltics.

Again by tracing the genetic routes, there is a strong association of Sintashta to language (https://www.indo-european-connection.com/science/sintashta-culture):



On the basis of numerous old Proto-Indo-European words in the Baltic languages it is even possible to assume that this migration happened jointly with the Fatyanovo people (the future inhabitants of India and Persia, the Indo-Iranian Aryans - the creators and users of Sanskrit and Avestan languages) and a long close neighborhood of the Balts with them. It made it easier for the Balts to retain many elements of the Proto-Indo-European vocabulary and culture in common with the Sintashta.

A proof of the theory above in linguistics is a verb "to swim", which is uniquely the same only in Slavic and Sanskrit languages. Those two branches of Indo-European kept its unchanged form for over 5000 years:

Sanskrit: प्लवते (plavate)
Old Church Slavonic: плавати (plavati)
Slovene: plávati
Ukrainian: пла́вати (plávaty)
Russian: пла́вать (plávatʹ)
Old Polish: pławać, spławiać
Slovak: plávať


It's the same in Tamil.


The Sintashta were masters of war and metallurgy; during the time of their settlement, India settled the headwaters of the Oxus River at the border of modern Tajikstan. What we are suggesting is an alliance between these two.

The rival would be the more dominant Yamnaya and Andronovo cultures, who are genetically mixed into Bactria. This seems to have gotten hammered down in its own area, and become known as the origin of Avestan Zoroastrianism.

Bactria is not genetically mixed into India.

Avestan is probably closer to the original language, because Sanskrit is mixed with Dravidian.

With a little fine-tuning, half of the world could communicate in the language of 3,000 B. C. E. if not earlier.

What we see is latter-day Indians called the Kaspians who are still networked over the Oxus, Aral, and Caspian Seas.

Well, the point is, from around 3,000 B. C. E., India ran at industrial volume with all these outlier areas. For example, the Bronze Age was not possible without international commerce in Tin Ingots. This was going on before Sintashta was a twinkle in anyone's eye.

I would say it is a "point", because it demonstrates the important capability of peaceful international trade, which I think was like a baseline status quo in *most* of these endeavors. The opposite, war and deceit, can be exposed as a limited, manipulative misunderstanding. So far, almost everything discovered in Russia supports this broader view.

By comparison, the Hebrew language does not squeak in to its roughest origins until about 1,200 B. C. E., which would mean it has virtually no explanatory power on any broad scale of ancient events. There was a functional "world" considerably before them.

[Michel Leclerc]

(...)

Again by tracing the genetic routes, there is a strong association of Sintashta to language (https://www.indo-european-connection.com/science/sintashta-culture):



On the basis of numerous old Proto-Indo-European words in the Baltic languages it is even possible to assume that this migration happened jointly with the Fatyanovo people (the future inhabitants of India and Persia, the Indo-Iranian Aryans - the creators and users of Sanskrit and Avestan languages) and a long close neighborhood of the Balts with them. It made it easier for the Balts to retain many elements of the Proto-Indo-European vocabulary and culture in common with the Sintashta.

A proof of the theory above in linguistics is a verb "to swim", which is uniquely the same only in Slavic and Sanskrit languages. Those two branches of Indo-European kept its unchanged form for over 5000 years:

Sanskrit: प्लवते (plavate)
Old Church Slavonic: плавати (plavati)
Slovene: plávati
Ukrainian: пла́вати (plávaty)
Russian: пла́вать (plávatʹ)
Old Polish: pławać, spławiać
Slovak: plávať


It's the same in Tamil.


The Sintashta were masters of war and metallurgy; during the time of their settlement, India settled the headwaters of the Oxus River at the border of modern Tajikstan. What we are suggesting is an alliance between these two.

The rival would be the more dominant Yamnaya and Andronovo cultures, who are genetically mixed into Bactria. This seems to have gotten hammered down in its own area, and become known as the origin of Avestan Zoroastrianism.

Bactria is not genetically mixed into India.

Avestan is probably closer to the original language, because Sanskrit is mixed with Dravidian.

With a little fine-tuning, half of the world could communicate in the language of 3,000 B. C. E. if not earlier.

What we see is latter-day Indians called the Kaspians who are still networked over the Oxus, Aral, and Caspian Seas.

Well, the point is, from around 3,000 B. C. E., India ran at industrial volume with all these outlier areas. For example, the Bronze Age was not possible without international commerce in Tin Ingots. This was going on before Sintashta was a twinkle in anyone's eye.

I would say it is a "point", because it demonstrates the important capability of peaceful international trade, which I think was like a baseline status quo in *most* of these endeavors. The opposite, war and deceit, can be exposed as a limited, manipulative misunderstanding. So far, almost everything discovered in Russia supports this broader view.

By comparison, the Hebrew language does not squeak in to its roughest origins until about 1,200 B. C. E., which would mean it has virtually no explanatory power on any broad scale of ancient events. There was a functional "world" considerably before them.

Re the above. Thank you Shaberon. I see you quote Bill (?) on a few linguistic points.

It is to these that I want to add a few remarks – because what is mentioned (by you, by Bill?) is factually incorrect.

But before doing so, I want to add that I do not consider myself an expert on genetic relationships – and that I start from the “meta-epistemic” point of view that knowledge from that field as well as well as knowledge from archeology as well as knowledge from linguistics can complete, and even corroborate, each other. Or – to make it simple and clear in one stroke : genetic relationships are really bodily relationships and pertain to the realm of the Body, i.e. the two lower chakras; archeological relationships (artefacts, buildings) pertain to the realm of the Soul, i.e. the two medium chakras; linguistic relationships pertain to the realm of the Mind/Spirit, i.e. the upper two chakras. When correspondences between the three Realms are quite strong they may “justify” ("probabilise”) “Beliefs” – which may further get confirmation from the personal field, being the (metaphysical, solely spiritual) experiences that a single individual has. (Such is my adventure.)

I am a linguist and philosopher by profession and consider myself an expert in this field and hence would defend strongly what I consider to be facts. (I am vocationally a poet and “man of letters“, and consider myself an “expert” in the field of using language creatively, i.e. using it in such a way that it is transcends into the realm of the Beautiful, the Good and the True – but such is my Belief, and I bow before anybody whose Belief is different: that is the world of "intent”, or, as I would say, of “Desire”, not of “facts”.)

This as a caveat for the “factual” criticism I am going to formulate about the linguistic points made above. I will not delve into too much of justification (but am willing to provide that if necessary), but just state – the facts.

The "swimming" root you adduce, Shaberon, is only one of the meanings of the Indo-European set of roots encompassing pleu-, ple-, pel- etc.: to this "swimming" meaning need to be added: to float, to flow, to pour, to fill, full, to move, boat“ etc. (The perceptive eye may immediately recognise that the English (=Germanic!) words float, flow, fill, full but also pour (the famous l/r switch) originate from the same root.) In Latin we have words like pluvius pluor ("rain": --> French pluie, Spanish lluvia). In Greek we have plōein (to swim) but also ploion (vehicle (!), as generalisation of “ship”!), and ploutos (wealth (fullness flowing!) yielding plutocracy..

All these words are roughly contemporaneous. A good guess: 1000 BCE. Your 5000 years date for Sanskrit and Old Slavonic is wrong. The Sanskrit we have nowadays is more or less as old as the 1300 BCE Greek of Mycene and Minoan B (which might go back to the post-Santorini/Thera volcanic eruption) – , but it would more probably be as old as Homeric Greek, i.e. 800/900 BCE.

Giving an older age to Sanskrit is Hindutva ideology, not science. (An element for this later is, exactly as you point out, the presence in Sanskrit of quite a number of Dravidian words, i.e. of words belonging to the (equally Nostratic!) Dravidian languages of South India.

In order to make the point made a little clearer I offer this thought. People variously boast about the age of their language. "I speak the oldest language in the world as my native tongue.” This is often voiced by people whose linguistic cultures or civilisations have been historically under quite some pressure from other cultures and duress. My more than full respect for this – but we can only be helped all of us by truth, not by mythomaniac history fiction. [B]There are no oldest languages. All languages, as human languages, are equally old.

French would be as old as the 7th or 8th century because traces of text in some early form of what would be called French later can be traced to those centuries. I myself would be entitled to consider my other “cultural” language, Dutch, to date back to the 5th century because the name of my town of birth, Antwerp, has been found in a 5th-century document in which the “an” word (of An-twerp) already has the present meaning of "at" and the form it has in present-day Dutch ("an" being a colloquial variant of the more frequent "aan" (English "on")). This age-boasting is nonsense. French is a late form of Latin, like Dutch is a late form of Old Germanic, like English is an old form of Old Germanic, like modern Hindi or Bengali is a late form of Vedic (also called old Indo-Arian), like Russian is a late form of Old Slavonic, like Welsh is a late form of Old Celtic.

When one follows these tracks one starts to see that those "Old" forms more or less "crystallise" (that is, if we go backwards) in forms that were paramount in the 3rd to 2nd millennia BCE. And oddly, we can see how that more or less coincides temporally with Old Babylonian, or with Old Egyptian (to quote two major languages for the Afro-Asiatic, or Abrasian as Bomhard would say, or Hamito-Semitic, language macrofamily. A period of great achievements, probably broken off by the mid-2nd millennium catastrophes.

And if we move back then to older stages, we arrive at Proto-Indo-European, and , as elsewhere exposed and defended by me, at the "civilisation on the shores off “the Black Lake” ” (the 6th millennium BCE).

By stating this, I hope I have set the record straight for the relative "ages" of Indian and European civilisations. Using only the linguistic record. The claim that certain civilisations yielded only scant material evidence is a wrong argument because we cannot induce from the absence of proof the proof of absence. The most striking example is Julius Caesar's famous account in Latin of his conquest of Celtic Gallia (more or less of present-day France). His legions were victorious, that is a fact. But he frequently mentions his admiration, or at least his respect, for the achievements of the Celtic civilisation he conquers (and plunders). Rome was built in stone. The great towns of Celtic Gallia (and (in a different story of conquest) Germanic Germania) were built in wood. They burned. Hardly any trace of them has been left. But they were there. That we have a lot of admiration for the urbanistic achievements of Dravidian South India is due to the facts that (1) the climate preserved the "perishable" structures better, and (2) the wooden buildings were gradually replaced by stone ones, also after the Indo-European pressure exerted on them (for instance during Ashoka’s reign, or later under the Moguls). We do not have many material ("Bodily”) traces from the Celtic civilisation – but we have the Celtic languages, and the Mabinogion.

Long parenthesis to tackle this last statement of yours, dear Shaberon: the Hebrew language does not squeak in to its roughest origins until about 1,200 B. C. E., which would mean it has virtually no explanatory power on any broad scale of ancient events.

Apart from the sneer (“squeak”?.. you can’t be serious) – and God knows how critical I am of tribal Judaism with its barbaric circumcision ritual and of Zionism which is the epitome of Antisemitism all in itself – this is plain wrong.

Hebrew is Proto (West-)Semitic just like Latin is Proto-Indo-European. That Hebraists or Jews claim its origin at more or less David’s Kingship’s times or “Adam’s creation” is of only anecdotic evidential value. The truth is that Hebrew in its oldest forms (epigraphic evidence etc.) is virtually indistinguishable from Phoenician, from Ugaritic, quite close to Akkadian etc.

See for yourself: the Wikipedia entrance on El, the "God" name (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_(deity)).

That means that “Hebrew” is only a nationalistically, ideologically argued "particularism" of the real truth, which is that it is a form of old (West) Semitic.

When Jewish cantors sing the Biblical texts in the Synagogue, they sing Old Semitic. The language from which Aramaean and Arabic have originated.

And – of course, but this is another story, and it will come in another post of mine in reaction to this post of yours – Semitic, Dravidian, and Indo-European, are Nostratic – but that takes us back not to the 6th-millennium “Black Lake” catastrophe, but to the 10th Millennium Greenland comets catastrophe...

[Michel Leclerc]

(...)

Now if we look at the map of R1a distribution, it is basically the same as "the language":


https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-c544eb456ea9946afb69fdc5a68bac2d-pjlq

(...)



This is a phantastic map Shaberon. Thank you for this – and you may help me (I am preparing a conference on the key words of the Declaration of Human Rights and their meanings) by informing me of the reference for this map.

“The language” as you cautiously call it, is – obviously, patently, for all to see, “Nostratic”.

Nostratic being the name for the major Meta-language family, which is – and here I am advancing the thesis – which has not yet been picked up by Graham Hancock, probably because he (wrongly) considers linguistic evidence not to be "hard" evidence – that all Nostratic language families, and hence Nostratic languages, originate from the One language universally spoken before the Groenland comet catastrophe (and hence the mother of all floods, “Lilith” (see elsewhere)): Nostratic (literally "our language”, lingua nostra in Latin, as the Mediterranean used to be the Romans mare nostrum, "our sea"), i.e. Atlantean. (For this last leap, vide Merezhkovsky (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmitry_Merezhkovsky)’s Mystery of the West: Atlantis-Europe from 1930.)

On your map, Shaberon, can clearly be seen the confines of the 6 Nostratic Macrofamilies:
- the European heartland of the Indo-European macrofamily (from Iceland to Russia and India),
- the heartland of the Uralic macrofamily (Finnish, Estonian, Saami, Hungarian) where those languages are at present and into Northern Eurasia,
- the heartland of the Kartvelian macrofamily (Georgian, ...) in the Caucasus,
- the heartland of the Dravidian macrofamily (Telugu, Kannada, Tamil, Malayalam, ...) in Southern India and especially in present-day Pakistan where they may have settled originally (Brahui and other Dravidian “fossils” still being spoken there) – and Mohenjo Daro and Harappa maybe having been their original “civilisational” centres before the influx of the Indo-Europeans into India) –
– the heartland of the Altaic macrofamily (all Turkic languages exactly where one would expect them to be (the Himalayas and the deserts North of them) and especially the Gobi desert next to Mongolia (where the Altaic language Mongolian ist still spoken) – and, which is especially striking – Korea, given that Korean is considered an Altaic language and within Korean history Korea is believed to be an age-old civilisation having resided there since times immemorial... the one maybe not so surprising exception being the other Far East Altaic language Japanese – given that the historical record of Japanese civilisation goes back to the early CE times and were/is believed to be an “immigrant” into the Japanese islands, having superseded local civilisations (the Ainu etc.) whose languages are not believed to be Nostratic but rather linked to the Polynesian group,
– not so much the heartland but the lands of their southernmost confines, of the Hamito-Semitic macrofamily, in Egypt clearly being the witness of the Hamitic “anchoring”, as well as, how remarkable, the Berber branch of Hamitic being present in their present-day concentration in Northern Algeria – the Berber civilisation being known from Roman times – and of course the Arabic peninsula and the countries of the Near and Middle East North of it being the "arrival" and "starting" points respectively of the Semitic migration (the Semites having been pushed from present-day Syria and Lebanon both Eastward to Mesopotamia and Southward towards Arabia by the Indo-Europeans fleeing the “Black Lake” area)...

Edit and important corrections over the above:

(1) I moronically mistook Kamchatka for the Korean Peninsula! Well, no then – Korean and Japanese both being considered (essentially) Altaic languages (Korean a little more than Japanese, because Japanese is more of a “composite” language than Korean is: “composite” i.e. the result of various language strata on top of each other related to various migrations/)conquests) do not show congruence of the genetic and linguistic data; this is of course not a "problem" per se because there are dozens of examples of languages spoken by people who are not the “genetically original” speakers of that language: an obvious example being the "Celtic" Irish speaking a Germanic language, English, but also:

(2) and here there is an equally striking exception to the congruence as I have just signalled for Korean and Japanese: the speakers of the “daughters of Latin” that are Spanish, Portuguese and Catalan and their dialects do not show strong genetic kinship with the other speakers of Latin languages, or, in other words, their “Iberic” roots may still correspond to the Iberic languages they once spoke and which the Roman conquest had replaced by Latin soon enough; and finally:

(3) and very strikingly: this kinship does seem to be present for the area where Basque is spoken now – and that whereas Basque is not at all a Nostratic language but shows strong hints of being related to certain languages of the Caucasus, which would be related to the Sino-Tibetan languages (Chinese, Burmese, Tibetan) and the Na-Dene languages of North West America...

[shaberon]

The "swimming" root you adduce...

All these words are roughly contemporaneous. A good guess: 1000 BCE. Your 5000 years date for Sanskrit and Old Slavonic is wrong. The Sanskrit we have nowadays is more or less as old as the 1300 BCE Greek of Mycene and Minoan B (which might go back to the post-Santorini/Thera volcanic eruption) – , but it would more probably be as old as Homeric Greek, i.e. 800/900 BCE.

And – of course, but this is another story, and it will come in another post of mine in reaction to this post of yours – Semitic, Dravidian, and Indo-European, [B]are Nostratic – but that takes us back not to the 6th-millennium “Black Lake” catastrophe, but to the 10th Millennium Greenland comets catastrophe...


Do you understand you are refuting me rather bluntly with largely discredited hypotheses?


Let's say the term Nostratic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nostratic_languages):



The hypothesis has fallen out of favour since the latter half of the 20th century and has limited degrees of acceptance, predominantly among a minority of Russian linguists. Linguists worldwide mostly reject Nostratic and many other macrofamily hypotheses...


is, at least, "hypothetical", because it is amorphous, and probably represents something, with no consensus on the details.

The physical events, on the other hand, mostly are discredited. Especially the comet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas_impact_hypothesis):



The idea that a comet struck North America at the end of the last ice age was first proposed as a speculative premise by the American congressman and pseudohistorian Ignatius Donnelly in 1883, who suggested it formed the Great Lakes and caused a sudden extreme cold period, which devastated animal and human populations...


*I* didn't adduce the swimming root. That is a quote of something provided for our consideration.

What is being suggested is that Sanskrit is primarily Sintashta in origin. This only comes into existence ca. 2,300 B. C. E.. What it may have been before that, I have no idea, but I would not argue heavily against a type of Nostratic "lingua franca" more represented by Avestan because Sanskrit has become mixed with Dravidian.


The reason for harping on Hebrew is that it has been used to define the beginning of time to us -- just like Avestan. Vedic Sanskrit does not pretend to do this. It has no stories that precede the Sanskrit it is using. It is, in fact, a completely different discussion that does not even contain the ideas those use. Similarly, the Hebrew language amounts to a vicious attack on El. Both the Avestan and Hebrew cultures appear to be founded on a hate-your-neighbor mentality. These ideas are sent back into India creating "Hinduism".



Sintashta was an unprecedented country of fortifications such as Arkaim:


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1d/%D0%90%D1%80%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%B8%D0%BC_2015_%28cropped%29.jpg/800px-%D0%90%D1%80%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%B8%D0%BC_2015_%28cropped%29.jpg


These places housed two to seven hundred people, and there are over twenty of them.

They are built by a rather limited set of Corded Ware genetics, which appears fairly quickly in India. The Sintashta people vanish rather quickly from this area.

Are they responsible for the Sanskrit branch of the language tree, quite possibly. They have nothing to do with the contents of the Veda. Not directly.

The closest relic of primitive Sanskrit is spoken by the Kalasha people of Citral. Their knowledge or beliefs are para-Vedic, while, quite clearly, they do not have the Veda. What they do have is:


the purest surviving Sintashta genetics

the purest genes known in the world

being distinguished from the very baseline:



In one cluster analysis (with K = 7), the Kalash formed one cluster, the others being Africans, Europeans/Middle Easterners, South Asians, East Asians, Melanesians, and Native Americans.


It's very weird. They have R* of Mal'ta Buret and U4 of Sintashta Corded Ware. Only four mitochondrial Eves detected. That is, their maternal lineage is purely Siberian/European. There is some admixture with Iranian and Bengali men, and, a minority of Chinese which is probably later.

Theirs is an endangered language (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalasha_language), they are one of the last peoples trying to preserve a completely pastoral existence where there was no paved road before the 1970s and no money.


An Avestan fragment has been dated to 1,323 B. C. E.; at least a hundred years prior, Kikkuli's Horse Manual was found in Syria. This amounts to a written form of a language used at a professional level considerably distant from its homeland. Therefor it is hard to conceive that Sanskrit could be any younger than this.

If it came from Sintashta--who were horsebreeders--and the Indians accepted it, then, it could have been installed in Syria at will. The same is found at Mari, Syria--U4.

I wouldn't see why the language as a whole would be taken to poof into existence just in time for these evidences.

Moreover, Sanskrit has an absolute clock, which dates to at least 1,400 B. C. E., and, if one accounts for acceleration and perhaps a few variable astrological measurements, you could add three or four centuries to that.

I have neither proof nor a distantly archaic date in mind, but I would not dispute Avestan Gathas and Sanskrit Mantras from ca. 2,000 B. C. E.; and I'm not sure how that could be objected too strongly.

[Michel Leclerc]

Dear Shaberon. Genetic relationships and archeological evidence do not speak languages.

Linguistic hypotheses (as the Nostratic hypothesis) are, you are right, hypotheses. They are justified internally. Language forms are related to each other “genetically” (the word being used metaphorically here, as in “French is a daughter language of Latin” whereas it would be more accurate to say: “French is one of the present-day versions of Latin”). Ultimately the combination of the results arrived at “locally” (for instance within Indo-European, or within Hamito-Semitic) are compared and the puzzle pieces are put together and so one arrives at (among other things) the Nostratic hypothesis. This hypothesis has its own consistency and this consistency is purely linguistic.

After linguistic research being done, the linguists may be struck by correspondences with archeological or human genetic evidence. (As I have been thanks to your map.) These correspondences are however not foundational for the linguistic relationships because genetically related people may speak different languages and genetically unrelated people may speak the same language; people who eat with sticks may speak different languages, and people who speak the same language may eat with spoon and fork or with their hands. Linguistics is an autonomous science – historical linguistics being in a way a branch of history, based on the critical examination of documented facts.

You are unjustifiedly generalising statements about linguistic hypotheses being "discredited". Who are you to judge? Wikipedia is certainly not a sufficient source. The sad history is that the history of historical linguistics is fraught with ideological influences, which tend to be quite nasty at times.

The hypothesis of the relatedness of Hamitic and Semitic languages with Indo-European languages was scientifically demonstrated in the early 20th century by Hermann Möller. These facts have been suppressed thanks to the anti-semitic racist politics of the entire first half of the 20th century and beyond.

Moreover, comparative linguistics is not very popular with the specialists of partial fields. (They might lose their job to a comparatist!) A typical example is the etymological study of Ancient Greek. Etymologists of Greek will tend to say that, for instance, for 50 p.c. of Greek roots there are no Indo-European etymologies – and stop there. They do not seem to realise that it is their scientific duty to study hypotheses that derive those roots from ancien Egyptian for instance, or worse (!) from Semitic! They do not study those possible origins (although the historical simultaneity of Phoenician and Greek civilisations is a fact) because they do not bother to study Semitic languages. If one scratches long enough, the ideological or racist underpinnings of this “lack of interest” to put it mildly, show clearly. If one refuses to look, one will certainly not find.

So, sorry for your faith in “discredition”, but you are wrong. The specialists who bothered to study both Indo-European and Dravidian and Hamitic and Semitic and Altaic and Uralic and Kartvelian (and Elamite and Sumerian – because some Nostraticists consider them to be Nostratic as well) arrive at between 1500 and 2500 word-roots which are shared by at least 3 of these language families.

Non-specialists should just suspend their judgement and start studying. Discrediting from the side of non-experts and/or amateurs just carries no weight.

My own credentials are: I am quite well versed in Indo-European, have studied Semitic languages (historically) and have relevant dictionaries for Altaic languages. I am an amateur for Uralic and Dravidian languages. (And Kartvelian.).

Your remark about “Russian" linguists is bizarre. For decennia (and at least for the period of my academic linguistic schooling), the "Soviet linguistic school" (and not just the Russian one) was considered to be the world's best. And that was logical, because Soviet policy it was to study thoroughly the languages of all peoples living within the Soviet Union’s borders. A “Nostratic hypothesis" coming from them would never be discredited by me. Incidentally, it is also Soviet linguists who have raised the possibility that the Nostratic languages may be related to the Sino-Tibetan ones – and also that I would not "discredit".

On the contrary, I think it would be wise to start from the hypothesis that all human languages are "somehow" related – and thinking about how that could be and have evolved is a worthy endeavour of the mind in my eyes. Conversely, it is quite popular among amateur mythologists to extrapolate quite daringly about the relationship between myths – and there the question of probabilities is not even raised. When relationships between myths are supported by relationships between languages expressing those myths, the case however is considerably strengthened.

I invite you to start studying “Nostratics” seriously – you will most certainly reach astonishing conclusions.

[shaberon]

Well, I am not sure I can quite contend with "all possible languages".

I understand intellectual history as shaped by ideas that are formed in those languages.


In that sense, an absolutely-fixable date for Vedic Riks is unnecessary, because, my purpose is to find what is the meaning in those or not. The language that is in those, may have a northern origin, but--the meaning that is expressed is from a Gangetic source.

They do not even resemble most of what is said of them, such as they have no spectacular history. It contains its own founders, which is what it is originally about. Instead of an archaic legend of the fledgling human race, it contains this interesting account:


"When men first gave names to objects, they did so out of affection."

This is interesting because the logic says the first men had no speech, therefor, they couldn't have any story. At some unspecified point, it was developed. Speech is supposed to have a motive, of course this says nothing as to whether it was Sanskrit or any other kind of speech. This is the value that is being remembered and maintained. Then it asserts that discussion will be conducted in Friendliness and Wisdom. The ones who don't become enemies. It sets this standard and begins defining its own kind of Speech.


It does so, physically, in the "problem" of what happened to Indus Valley Civilization. Were these primarily Dravidian speakers.


The thing is, a lot of ancient information is practically brand new.

What I am reacting to is a discovery in Russia in the past few years since I have been on Avalon, and, its comparison with numerous genetic samples. It is only since about 2015 that any substantial work has been done with "ancient DNA".

The right questions are not always asked, and, prior assumptions still have their hold.

This is a multi-field argument of mass proportions.

It has "forced" the "consensus committee" into pushing back the dates for "external influence" on India. Wiki will begin by using this predictable name (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Aryan_migrations):


Indo-Aryan migration into the region, from Central Asia, is considered to have started after 2000 BCE as a slow diffusion during the Late Harappan period and led to a language shift in the northern Indian subcontinent. Several hundred years later, the Iranian languages were brought into the Iranian plateau by the Iranians, who were closely related to the Indo-Aryans.

The Proto-Indo-Iranian culture, which gave rise to the Indo-Aryans and Iranians, developed on the Central Asian steppes north of the Caspian Sea as the Sintashta culture (c. 2200-1900 BCE), in present-day Russia and Kazakhstan, and developed further as the Andronovo culture (2000–1450 BCE).


They talk about "diffusions" and "developments" and "migrating to Syria" and "interluding in BMAC" but let us start with the reminder that such Bactrian genetics are not found in India.

Without taking into account what I am about to say, this is the response by a genetic study in India (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5364613/):


Archaeological evidence suggests that Middle Bronze Age Andronovo descendants of the Early Bronze Age horse-based, pastoralist and chariot-using Sintashta culture, located in the grasslands and river valleys to the east of the Southern Ural Mountains and likely speaking a proto-Indo-Iranian language, probably expanded east and south into Central Asia by ~3.8 ka. Andronovo groups, and potentially Sintashta groups before them, are thought to have infiltrated and dominated the soma-using Bactrian Margiana Archaeological Complex (BMAC) in Turkmenistan/northern Afghanistan by 3.5 ka and possibly as early as 4 ka. The BMAC came into contact with the Indus Valley civilisation in Baluchistan from ~4 ka onwards, around the beginning of the Indus Valley decline, with pastoralist dominated groups dispersing further into South Asia by ~3.5 ka, as well as westwards across northern Iran into Syria (which came under the sway of the Indo-Iranian-speaking Mitanni) and Anatolia.


First of all, there are the people who are the genetic equivalent of their own continent (https://www.nature.com/articles/srep26565):


Kalash ancestry is a mixture of 49.0% Northern European and 51.0% Indian ancestries.

The presence of five Y DNA haplogroups in the Kalash people indicates at least four mixing events.


Representing Sintashta:

18.2% R1a

but also the mysterious Mal'ta Buret (http://dispatchesfromturtleisland.blogspot.com/2015/05/the-genetics-of-kalash-people.html):

* R* 6.8% (most common in Thailand, Indonesia, the Phillipines and Australian aborigines)
* R1* 2.3% (most common in indigenous Americans)


The Kalash and these people represent those undiluted genes of pre-Ice Age Siberia.

On a linguistic basis, they are nearly worthless. It is actually "Kalash Kafirs", a term applied to them by the Ghaznids around the eleventh century. Their personal origin myth says they came from the south, and, evidently, they are wrong about that. However, here's the real question. They live beside the ancient world's source of Lapis Lazuli. This has been found at Rakhigarhi in Haryana since about 7,000 B. C. E.. This itself is a few hundred miles of trade and migration potential. There is a functional access, that, as far as we know, remains unimpeded.

As to how did R1a get there (https://www.quora.com/How-did-the-R1a-haplogroup-get-to-India):



The Aryan MIGRATION theory is not deemed to be false (note: invasion doesn’t make sense technically, because everything suggests it was a rather gradual intrusion into South Asia, accompanied by intermixing and cultural exchanges, and definitely not in any organized way, but rather countless different tribes and clans moving on their own through different routes, in different times, probably spanning centuries). Maybe still perfectible and not conclusively detailed and explained, but not false. It is at least as plausible and substantiated as any other widely accepted migration theory up to the Bronze Age. The only area on earth where the Aryan migration theory and even the Proto-Indo-European theory itself is still severely questioned and often angrily rejected is, not surprisingly, India, clearly because of religious and political/ideological reasons (namely nativist/ultra-nationalist ones), as opposed to impersonal scientific reasons.


Besides Europe and South India, it also travels to these populations (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_R1a_frequency_by_population):


Manipuri

Garo (Meghalaya)

Khasi (Meghalaya)

Brahui

Kalash

Anywhere from Europe (Basque, Ashkenazi) to south India.


The point being its origin is very distinctive (https://www.quora.com/Why-do-some-Kurds-have-R1a-Germanic-Sintashta-ancestry-Are-the-R1b-Kurds-Yamnayan#:~:text=Haplogroup%20R1B%20and%20R1A%20originated,HAPLOGROUP%20R1A%20and%20NOT%20R1B.):



Haplogroup R1B and R1A originated from the Ancient Northern Eurasians on the Eurasian steppes. Their descendants were the Eastern hunter gatherers and the Indo-Europeans.

The Sintashta Culture originated from the Corded Ware Culture on the Eurasian steppes and carried HAPLOGROUP R1A and NOT R1B. They spoke the Indo-Iranian language and took this language group into parts of the Middle East, Central and South Asia. They were the original Aryans.

Indo-Iranian (Aryan) languages:

https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-d0959235808f2f2c74c5a81b1af86e00




Kurds, Persians, Yazidi speak an Indo-Iranian language BUT ARE INDIGENOUS MIDDLE EASTERN PEOPLE.

No, genetic origin and language do not necessarily correspond.

You can't change the genetics, but, you can change the language, and, perhaps, relatively quickly.

Among the Sintashta, R1a is stock standard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sintashta_culture).

It continues westward in Russia as Timber Grave (https://www.eupedia.com/genetics/srubna_culture.shtml) culture.

They have occupied a special place as the first to travel quickly.


Resulting from a sample of 243 ancient specimens, the major explanation is taken to be what the Chinese called Heavenly Horses (https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2021/09/16/the-heavenly-horses-of-the-sintashta/):


This reveals that modern domestic horses ultimately replaced almost all other local populations as they rapidly expanded across Eurasia from ~2,000 BCE, synchronously with equestrian material culture, including Sintashta spoke-wheeled chariots. We find that equestrianism involved strong selection for critical locomotor and behavioral adaptations at the GSDMC and ZFPM1 genes. Our results reject the commonly held association between horseback riding and the massive expansion of Yamnaya steppe pastoralists into Europe ~3,000 BCE driving the spread of Indo-European languages. This contrasts with the situation in Asia where Indo-Iranian languages, chariots and horses spread together, following the early second millennium BCE Sintashta culture.



That is considered the "Steppe" accessing the "Pamir Highway".

In basically the same move, India establishes the outpost Shortugai, which is just to the north of the lapis mines, at the headwaters of the Oxus or Amu Darya. From what we can tell, initially, Bactria was a normally-functioning part of the circuit, and something happened.

As a stark contrast to the Kalash, who, apparently, have taken on a dominator's name for themselves, the people who actually live at the mines carry their own inherent name, Munji (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munji_language):

Historically, Munji displays the closest possible linguistic affinity with the now-extinct Bactrian language.


Our knowledge base on this amounts to Morganstierne 1938 (https://www.jstor.org/stable/607674), and a revived study at Cambridge (https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-the-international-phonetic-association/article/munji/F75BBCA17F58A5734EE71EAC2A196960).


Here's the riddle. "Munja" is Vedic Sanskrit for "grass". However it is a bit unusual and "muj-" is not really a stem that is used in Sanskrit, and this is usually a quick clue that it is Dravidian. "Munjavata" is used in the Atharva Veda for a country that would be located distantly to the northwest,

The grass has carried this name plainly until recently (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5671618/):

Saccharum munja (S. munja) is the common name of a wild grass found in Pakistan, Afghanistan and India along the river banks and in arid areas


Some of this group has been "reclassified" by "Plants" people. So this is a sugarcane. Saccharum and sugar are said to come from Sanskrit "sarkar" which is the correct word, but it is not found in the Rg Veda.

"Munja" is, and so does that imply it is a loan-word that has perpetually had this same meaning?

As far as we know, it means the same people being there since 8,000 B. C. E. having for their southern neighbors, the Siberian North Indians, and, eventually, to the north, the south Indians.

You can get to the Oxus or Pamir Highway, or, a pass to South Chitral that was originally held by the Kalasha.

Those are among the most primitive versions of their respective languages, and neither has much suggestion on any kind of history.

The proponents of the "slow" Sintashta make the Veda appear to come from outside of India by referring a passage to the burial practices of the Sintashta. But that is not what it says. The page editors claim it is a "geometry" about stones around a grave. What is has is a mound ("parvata") and a ring ("paridhi") but it does not say of "stones" or of what. It may as likely mean twigs for a fire. In any case, this "marker" is a "fence" that is built between the cemetery and the deceased's village.

When the chariot was dated to 2,063 B. C. E., did we take it to be the prototype?

I think we would have good reason to suspect it became super easy for them to access India. It would have made them the new definition of wealth overnight. I am not sure what that means in terms of transmission of language because they are benefitting from an existing system that is simply enlarging.

[shaberon]

I missed adding a resource related to the above.


This is semi-useful--but there is a very detailed linguistic assessment of Munji from Beyer & Beck 2011 (https://iam-afghanistan.org/wp-content/uploads/beyer_beck.pdf).

There is no written form of Munji. Everything uses phonetic spelling. They say, if you make books in Munji, we will buy them, even if we can't read them.

There are about 270 sample words and a few sentences. The words are compared to Dari, which resembles Sanskrit in some basics like "mother" or some of the numbers, but, otherwise, is unreadable to me, and Munji is another step past Dari. I guess you can see some commonality, but this is definitely its own language, owing to the fact of being so removed from any urban center, there has never been anything to mix.

The study tells us nothing as to what is "Munji" or why are they there. It describes them as pastoralists who maybe trade some livestock or something.

Such reports *do* recognize the significance of, particularly, northeastern Afghanistan, with respect to the Great Game. Yet even in modern times, those mines were taken by the Taliban, which was estimated to cost the Afghan government $18 million in revenues. It has not been suggested that anything bad ever happened to the Munji or the Kalash until the ca. 1400s Raisa dynasty of the north Chitrali Kho people, and, since then, everything is in terms of the Ismaili tradition of Aga Khan.

Neither group has a "history" that is anything resembling mythological "world histories". There is the general idea that the Munji once followed something similar to Zoroastrianism or the Kalasha tradition. But you can't add much more to that. Neither one has ancient structures, or graveyards with samples of this or that person.

In terms of those places that do, it has been found that ca. 2,300 B. C. E., there is an increase of one axis Elam -- Bactria.

Around the same time, there appears another, Sintashta -- Shortugai.

At first, we might guess it was mutually beneficial, and then, it seems to me at least, there was a deep division along these lines. Both Bactria and Sintashta appear to have been lost as "powers".

That may have something to do with what is in the Avestan scriptures. This has for its main enemy "Turan", which isn't specific but indicates Siberia, which, as have have known, already has a type of compatible migratory pattern to India for millennia.

Now, as a suggestion for the academics, who have assured us that "Druhyu" is the name of a tribe which became Iranians and so forth. Well, yes, this is the term for an enemy in the Rg Veda, but, that does not make it a proper name of anyone for themselves. On the contrary, Vedic Druhyus are described as practicing the same or very similar thing to the Rishis themselves. The expression has no particular meaning other than "attacker, aggressor". The context is they were expelled towards the northwest. So, it may be plausible that these "Druhyus" are what the Avestanis react to as "Devas", as it sounds like they would be indistinguishable from any other Indic person.

Again, this is to frame an argument that nothing in the Veda has anything to do with taking over the main body of Afghanistan. One might be able to say, it shows a relationship to the Kabul and Wakhan Corridor. And then I would have to ask, well, where does "Munja" come from? Why would it *not* be those people just mentioned above? Only in later literature does one find the name "munjavat" used for areas moving east, into Kashmir and Haryana.

Its language, mythic, and cultural background probably *is* related to Kalasha and Sintashta, but, its subject material is its own.

Sintashta is probably more fascinating to military people and if you want to figure out why male DNA appears to be more highly mobile.

Its timing is around that of Sargon, so, serious armed conflict was certainly a focus.

In terms of language, one might also compare the Brahui. Genetically, they are like their neighbors, primarily the north Pakistani wave mixed with a bit of Iranian. They have no south Indian component, but, they are Dravidian speakers, because this is presumed to represent IVC, which they are not really a part of. Perhaps they are the "pastoralists" of the IVC times. Therefor, they are thought to be survivors of an event that kicked most of the Dravidian speakers out of the region. They were introduced to the concept of history in the 1700s.

Put together, then, that makes three examples of people who are genetically quite unmixed, and, linguistically, represent an undisturbed or primitive version of the families, Dravidian, Sanskrit, and Avestan or Bactrian. India itself has pockets of people of eastern descent speaking Australic languages, and, in general, their mythical identity lacks anything resembling Adam and Noah stories, equinox cycles, or world disasters. These concepts do not seem inherent but introduced.

As we see, it is a recent decision that has placed Sintashta as the apex or origin of Indo-Iranic language, and, I don't know how complete of an explanation that is. Physically, it appears that the horses they bred were the hottest commodity for several centuries. There is no reason to say that such horses were not absorbed into India, which, subsequently, made its own trading post in Syria. There is no reason to assume this was directly colonized by Sintashta, especially since Syria has already been involved with Indian trade for centuries. Nothing in the Rg Veda reflects establishing trade, but, rather, takes international commerce for granted, and is about fairness in dealing with it.

One more potential fence-mending for now. This is not Vedic Sanskrit. It appears in later literature and here is the explanation in Dravidian Kannada:


Bāhlika (ಬಾಹ್ಲಿಕ):—

1) [noun] name of a country in North Afghanistan; Balkh.

2) [noun] an inhabitant of that country.

3) [noun] a horse bred in that country.

4) [noun] the perennial plant Crocus sativus of Iridaceae family, with funnel-shaped, purplish flowers having orange stigmas; saffron plant.

5) [noun] the dried aromatic stigmas of this plant, used in flavouring and colouring foods; saffron.



That's the true "olive branch". If Saffron is significant to Indian culture, this comes from Crete in the ca. 3,000 B. C. E. range and is hand-propagated. So Balkh or Bactria is an inlet for this Greek product. It may be in the wake of a post-Vedic repair of whatever happened. Native Indian Tikka marks could have been based in Turmeric and Cinnabar. Saffron itself is a total import. One might be able to say that India was a very finicky customer. Although IVC seals are found in multiple western sites, almost nothing Mesopotamian is found in India. They have a selective fondness for things like Cretan Saffron and Sintashta Horses. The clever person will look for Saffron in the fossil records and detect one of the positive western contributions.


That's what I, personally, prefer to value. That is, overcoming language or cultural barrier by way of a certain peaceful value I would get as soon as considering the Veda's basic idea of Speech. It's not a crusade. The sense is that, for example, if a Greek visits an Indian place, he might be expected to raise a glass for Indra. If an Indian goes to a Greek place, he might be expected to leave a token for Apollo. That is probably more like how the ancient world worked. There was a form of politeness which may have included open debates, but, wasn't really a matter of enforcing a liturgy on anyone.

I don't personally know how to reverse-engineer Sanskrit onto the Sintashta, but, physically to India, we can say this was like a singular column of influence, whereas in Europe there were repetitive waves of Yamnaya and Andronovo overlapping it. And so those genetics and languages bulk out with more variation.

[Ewan]

I see the current incarnation of 'Ancient Russia (Megaliths, Caves, Sacred Sites etc)' is stuck debating language roots, genetic equivalences and migratory evidence.

I await this thread coming back on topic with some degree of anticipation.

[shaberon]

Well, I have not usually seen anything about an inhabited site disregard the inhabitants. If the intent is "natural sites without human modifications" then I am dealing with a different subject.


This, to me at least, is a "new view" that processes more information than was in existence during my educational upbringing.

It is in Russian territory, but, it does come with some amount of human story. This may be disregarded if that is not of interest.


For example there is a "reference point" considerably beyond anything ever presented to me. It's not the oldest human remains, it's the oldest known settlement in Siberia. At first, there was some excitement about Mal'ta Buret (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mal%27ta%E2%80%93Buret%27_culture):


Until they were discovered in Mal'ta, "Venus figurines" were previously found only in Europe.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2d/Malta_artefacts_%28reworked%29.jpg/569px-Malta_artefacts_%28reworked%29.jpg




There are other relics such as this plaque:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Mal%27ta_centrally_perforated_ivory_plaque.jpg/800px-Mal%27ta_centrally_perforated_ivory_plaque.jpg





There are a few words from Joseph Campbell explaining it.

I have little response because of not knowing any type of language to compare to the items.

The remains of the individual from the grave did tell us something.

This is the type for that branch of humanity called Ancient North Eurasian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_North_Eurasian). It's really big and complicated. It's without reference to the MA-1 genes based on R* and U*. This is what the MA-1 individual had. Unusually basic and unique. According to older findings, he should be in Europe. A statistical prediction would say he should be a 45,000 yo Bosnian. Nevertheless, the two areas must be previously connected. It turns out the Americas are just as connected. This area sent migrants east, west, and south from this very old period, before and after the Ice Age.

The area of focus can somewhat easily be seen on one page considering U2, U4, U9 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_U#Haplogroup_U2) to be rare transmissions.

The extent of my genetic references are about early, rare subclades of those. R1a is not really rare, but around Europe and Armenia, it blends in with numerous close variants. To the east, it seems to travel a direct path, Sintashta, to India.

As to its earliness, someone asked roughly the same question and clarified the oldest known R1a (https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2020/07/the-oldest-r1a-to-date.html):


PES001 comes from a burial site in what is now northwestern Russia and is dated to a whopping 10785–10626 calBCE.


https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgyaAvX1TExyUa8-nMmzee4Cf-ld2KZ3XAwtWokdT_MXduGoZNEypXjrQ2M5mXdgThORyCmuenCf2-OP5FT9StkObqw81n5LeiL8mAKqRMot6JaeT-meyUnFvny0XcZA52FOkTkdn7ujBBN/s1600/Ancient_Y-hg_R1a_v2.jpg




1 being the first, then you just get a thin arm going east. This individual may not directly be the Father of North India because (https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/25/8/1651/1110631):


...a split between the Indian and Caucasus/European R1a lineages occurring about 16,500 years ago.


And more precisely this individual has:

R1a5-YP1301



What that person did not include is that the full paper also gives the maternal genetics of PES001 as U4a1 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7817100/).

This PES001 person is virtually identical to the Kalash:


U4 is also preserved in the Kalash people (current population size 3,700) a unique tribe among the Indo-Aryan peoples of Pakistan where U4 (subclade U4a1) attains its highest frequency of 34%.

That's what I mean by "pure". The stock genetics of Kalashas living today is about the same as the original specimen.

This link is their Full profile (http://dispatchesfromturtleisland.blogspot.com/2015/05/the-genetics-of-kalash-people.html) from about forty-four people. Of eight (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7475010/) mitochondrial strands:


...all of which exclusively arise from the Eurasian macro haplogroup R,


which again happens to be like Mal'ta Buret. So let us say all of their motherhood is "northern". On the other hand, R1a is the only matching male gene; most of the others likely being later mixes. I am not sure if we can get a more specific sub-clade. Sintashta was about 18/30 R1a in five or six varieties. The thing with "a5" does not seem to match the terminology; not sure about that. It goes to sub-clades of R1a1 and that is all.


The oldest R1a individual is of course studied related to Russian Fatyonovo (https://indo-european.eu/2021/01/on-fatyanovo-and-the-survival-of-r1a-z93-among-mari-permians/) descent, and even has an Individual entry (https://haplotree.info/maps/ancient_dna/samples.php?searchcolumn=Y_Haplotree_Variant&searchfor=R-YP1272*&ybp=500000,0) on haplotree. Can't miss him. He proves that the similar genetics of the Kalash are about 10,000 years old, again, more notably that his maternal lineage is found in them currently at a 34% strength. This is very unusual.

We are not able to say if they are a flow from Ancient Northeast Eurasia, or, descend from Sintashta. Either is possible. If Sintashta mixed back with ANE--which seems likely, since they mixed with Mongolians--in that case it would pool back towards the same older genes. It might be like refreshing U4 after ten thousand years. I am not quite sure how it works. I am responding to the narrow confines of its flow.


Because the two groups are evidently closely related, physically, that is the only reason I would consider Sanskrit as perhaps reflecting Sintashta-speak.

This is not a "settlement", it's 400 km of fortifications.


When it comes to more recent structures, then, it is a little different, because then we might know how languages were used around them.

Arkaim was nearly lost (https://www.heritagedaily.com/2020/04/arkaim/127669) all over again:



Originally, seen as unusual circles in the Southern Urals steppe when photographed in 1952 by aerial cartographers, Arkaim wouldn’t be discovered until 1987 when a team of archaeologists, headed by Gennady Zdanovich was sent to survey the archaeological value of the valley at the confluence of the Bolshaya Karaganka and Utyaganka rivers in preparation for the construction of a reservoir. This would have resulted in the area being flooded and any archaeological remains submerged.


They re-designed the reservoir, uncovered the site, and then some people take this very seriously (https://www.thearchaeologist.org/blog/unveiling-arkaim-russias-enigmatic-stonehenge-of-the-east):



The unearthing of Arkaim has given rise to various ideologies among different religious and cultural groups. For some, it represents the second homeland of the Indo-Europeans, who initially inhabited Arctic regions before migrating southward and westward, influencing the development of other civilizations. Arkaim has been designated a "national and spiritual shrine" of Russia and serves as a sacred site for Rodnover, Zoroastrianism, and other religious movements. Some even identify it as the mythical Asgard of Odin from Germanic mythology or Zoroaster's birthplace.


Most things that are said about it might just raise the question (https://www.heritagedaily.com/2020/04/arkaim/127669):


Many scholars suggest the risky assumption that the concentric design represents “the model of the universe” as described in ancient Aryan/Iranian spiritual literature, the Vedas and the Avesta and reflect the city of King Yima (the fourth Shah of the Pishdadian dynasty of Persia according to Shahnameh) as described in the Rigveda (an ancient Indian collection of Vedic Sanskrit hymns).


That's a crude way of exposing the fact that Wikipedia has "Yima" which links to a Persian Shah while saying it is something from the Rg Veda. And of course the whole "suggestion" may not apply.

From a better article with a wide-angle view:


https://topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2021-05/1622440589_arkaim-vid-sverhu.jpg


There are only a few whose reaction is not so fast (https://en.topwar.ru/183540-arkaim-i-strana-gorodov.html):



However, it has been proven that the settlements of the "Country of cities" have nothing to do with the peoples inhabiting modern Russia. According to the most popular and widely disseminated version, they were founded by proto-Aryan tribes who, on the way of their migration from north to south, lingered in the Ural steppes for two or three centuries. Here they built their cities, which they themselves mercilessly burned and destroyed.

It is interesting that the houses were multi-storey, with 10-30 "apartments" in each (the wall of one house was the wall of another), and all the underground structures of the city were connected with each other. There were 67 houses in total (40 in the outer circle and 27 in the inner circle). The city street had wooden flooring and storm sewers. It is said that the ring structure of the city is oriented by the stars and made it possible to track 18 astronomical events, including the rising and setting of the Sun on the days of the equinox, the rising and setting of the high and low moon. However, it must be borne in mind that the picture of the starry sky has changed quite a lot over 4000 years.

There are supporters of the version that Arkaim is a model of the Universe. Others consider it to be the projection of the sky map onto the earth. Serious researchers agree only that the fortress is approximately oriented to the cardinal points.

However, a more reasonable hypothesis is that the settlements of the "Country of cities" arose in the course of Indo-European migration from the West, which was caused by the collapse of the Circumpontic metallurgical province.


There is no trace of an invasion or other sign why they might have left rather quickly.

The most reliable thing to say:


Archaeological finds allow us to conclude that the inhabitants of the "Country of cities" loved cherry-colored clothes, were fire worshipers, they did not know the script.



The lack of writing sounds like Sanskrit, which discontinued the use of IVC seals. None of those are found here, although, some years back we were given reports where we were told (https://www.ancient-origins.net/ancient-places-asia/arkaim-00251):

The discovery of a water and sewage system, mines, metallic objects, pottery, ritualistic remains, utensils, and furnaces further attests to the complexity of Arkaim.


I'm not readily finding small relics such as pottery. We have this one picture of a big place that was found some years back and that's it. Usually, it is not hard to find at least a visual introduction to some place, and so far this is a bit dark.

In the words of the director (https://www.rbth.com/articles/2012/08/20/arkaim_an_ancient_culture_on_the_steppe_17521.html):


There are no artifacts in the place where the ancient mandala citadel of Arkaim once stood.

there are no drawings, no images of gods, no inscriptions.

The towns were built near a river and encircled with a canal,” Zdanovich said. “This must have had some symbolic significance as well.”


He says each house had a well and a copper furnace.

Nothing much for art or language to elaborate on. It's an industry. Cities of coppersmiths surrounded by cattle ranchers.

To summarize (https://www.ancient-origins.net/ancient-places-asia/arkaim-aryans-advanced-astronomy-and-untold-secrets-russian-citadel-0010055):



To date, archaeologists have found no jewelry, art, or obvious treasures at Arkaim. Broken ceramics, bones and teeth of domestic and wild animals and humans, and a few stone and bronze tools make up the range of artifacts. Thus, Arkaim holds a different value for archaeologists - the ruins and the curious nature of their layout.

https://www.ancient-origins.net/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/Arkaims-artifacts-consist-of-broken-ceramics.jpg?itok=jhEwkkPp




I don't quite react to that as an identifying feature.

That does not represent intellectual progress over the Mal'ta Buret finds.

Despite the ambiguity, an early UNESCO (https://unesdoc.unesco.org/ark:/48223/pf0000112403) report finds that when excavated, it becomes a "new Mecca" of Russian ultranationalism, as well as the Zoroastrians and various fringe groups. The Orthodox are about the only ones known to say, look, just keep a cool head.

That's not just someone taking it seriously in a book, this is changing their lives. I had no clue about that until just now.

It may be related to India, and it may be among the Pillar Fraternities (https://www.newdawnmagazine.com/articles/ancient-mysteries/arkaim-russias-ancient-city-the-arctic-origin-of-civilisation):



In short, it would be a mistake for Russian ethnic pride to train too narrow a focus on Arkaim’s Aryan background, for the town was heir to a great civilising force that existed in the Eurasian corridor long before there were Indo-Europeans.


which perhaps implies that Sanskrit arose in situ and the Sintashta merged into it.


For this to happen, I would suggest they were a unit of "everything" that is noticeably "sped up" and "systemic" compared to anything that had ever been known before.


I have noticed the same technology builds several places right around ca. 2,000 B. C. E.--that is, a planned city which benefits from the use of a canal. This is common to:


Shortugai

Kanesh, Kul Tepe (Assyrian)

Mari, Syria (Sumerian)


which are all exactly like Sintashta, that is, they are built over distance, by someone of influence. Or, they are like Arkaim, if "Sintashta" means the proliferation of these centers on the scale of some modern states.


It is the crowning glory in another page, which fortunately is less bulked with addenda than its relative genetics page, Indo-Iranian languages (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Iranian_languages):


Historically, the Indo-Iranian speakers, both Iranians and Indo-Aryans, originally referred to themselves as the Aryans.



This one is easy. It *is* written down. They *don't* do this.

On this aspect, I would say the experts have misled themselves about the whole point of the material.

It's about a multi-ethnic alliance.

Family and kingdom have nothing to do with its criteria for "Good vs. evil".

For one thing, it never says "the Aryans", which reeks of racism and has a very different feel than if you say "the Aryas".

Those, at least, are in it, but it is not really what it is about. If you try to inflict any kind of nationalistic stamp on it, you will be disappointed. Nothing to identify with.


I would tend to guess Sintashta was economy of scale. You have sixty houses with one or more of these hearths that smelt copper, eventually you have de-forested such a vast area that it is no longer practical to keep going. Such a phenomenon is in the oldest Chinese records. It is not that unusual when people develop more efficient tools. They can win every battle and defeat themselves.


But for example, I have been aware for a while that there is an Astrological theory that traces the Indians back to the Arctic region at a massive time scale.

A couple of weeks ago, I found out that this Indian idea has fanatical support by an actual Zoroastrian.

A little while ago I found out that someone put a sign "Birthplace of Zoroaster" outside of Arkaim years back.

As to the first idea, no, the Out-of-Arctic origin really makes no sense, and then, I was under the impression at least, that the Avestan texts are dealing with the Pamirs. I take the notion as ludicrous. But, if it is a type of public domain because it is a national symbol, then I don't interfere with their right to choose that if they are not causing any problems.

The Rg Veda itself not only does not deal with any kind of migration from the north, it expels enemies in that direction.





The Country of Towns is very obvious from an airplane. This is a 2015 excavation of a necropolis:

https://www.ancient-origins.net/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/Excavating-a-necropolis.jpg?itok=wthUT_8s



That represents the largest sample of ancient DNA ever studied. Of course, it is only one segment of many, but it does have character.

Is it likely the Kalash are living representatives of the pastoralists outside the city walls?


I find its actual story very intriguing, there is a certain amount to be said, and no real expectation it will go to greater detail. They were not necessarily the *first* to breed horses, but, the best and most proliferous. This again is like its own "continent" since this becomes the dominant breed everywhere. The Spoked Wheel is even one reason we would not suggest they were not carbon copy teleported to India, because the Sinauli cart of basically the same age has solid wheels. The horse takes off like wildfire, this wheel is perhaps more conservative. The Mitanni are its next known aficionados.

This may be the most influential site, ever.

In what language, I don't know. Everything expressed as "Proto-" starts sounding really redundant quick, and there is some kind of formulaic difference between "Indo-European" and "Nostratic". I would hesitate to attribute a single cultural thing to this industrial fortress, except in this case the Kalash are themselves a unique kind of physical evidence. As to where they are doing it, it is theorized:


Sintashta emerged during a period of climatic change that saw the already arid Kazakh steppe region become even colder and drier. The marshy lowlands around the Ural and upper Tobol rivers, previously favoured as winter refuges, became increasingly important for survival...

In other words, we are dealing with the Ural River (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ural_(river)) Civilization, the "boundary" between Europe and Asia.

The Ural Mountains, which are the rest of the "continental boundary", also have a northern and southern divide of the river basins:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/20/UralMountains1.png



The Kama and the Ural go to the Caspian Sea. The rest of it is Arctic Ocean.

Why wouldn't you do that? We talk about the Nile, Euphrates, Indus, Yellow Rivers...Arkaim is like the canal city project of some standing Ural Valley Civilization. It is in Chelyabinsk Oblast (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelyabinsk_Oblast):


Numerous rivers originate within the region, within the basins of the Kama, Tobol, and Ural rivers.


When we take into consideration this area as a whole, then we will be deluged by phenomena. Discussions of the Caspian Sea fluctuating have been going on since at least Herodotus (https://www.jstor.org/stable/197794?seq=1).

On the ambitious side, it may be "boats" in Caspian rock art from 10,000 B. C. E. (https://www.quora.com/How-important-was-the-Caspian-Sea-for-trade-and-migrations-in-history-Why-didnt-civilizations-spread-to-the-other-side-through-the-Caspian). I am not sure about that, but, on the west side there is Gobustan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gobustan_State_Historical_and_Cultural_Reserve):

Judging by the depictions of animals and human figures in Gobustan, the region had a warm climate 10 to 12 thousand years ago. People were wearing light clothes, and women were wearing short leather dresses.




Shortogai and the Oxus River are somewhat indirectly linked via:


Transoxiana and the Aral Sea

which has a hydrological study on Multiple Flood Events (https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2009553117). It's complicated, but, the basic idea is these are gateways and stimuli for migration.


The major site of Turkmenistan starting ca. 2,300 B. C. E. is Gonur Depe (https://voicesoncentralasia.org/between-the-aral-and-caspian-seas-the-magnificent-history-and-archeology-of-turkmenistan/), However it also has coastal sites which have simply been overlooked. Like Gobustan, the southeast Caspian is considered immune to Younger Dryas Cooling (https://hal.science/hal-03367388/document):



This patchy and
imprecise record currently prevents important discussions regarding how the
local environment, and more specifically changes in sea level, played a major
role in human settlement dynamics and other aspects of the peopling of the
Caspian region.


So The Younger Dryas Event is definitely real, particularly in the sense there were refuges from it.

The Black Sea is affected by similar pulsations to this. Part of the point is multiple instances of cold, flood, and that it is to this entire Central Asian water table.

The position of the Ural Arkaim people is that, to access the Pamir Highway over land, you have to cross Kazakhstan. Would they not, therefor, be interested in river routes. Would there not be small barges that could hold perhaps a few cattle. I am not sure about that either. We anticipated that was part of the reason for Shortugai. It may be an era of exploration or attempt to use boats on a continuous journey.

[Bill Ryan]

Copying this new post by Helvetic on his thread: (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?1383-The-Continuing-Search-For-The-Truth&p=1633095&viewfull=1#post1633095)

~~~

Paul Stonehill | Dark Secrets of the Baksan Gorge: Nazi Occult Expeditions to the Caucasus | Sept. 9, 2024

Source: Paranormal Research Paul Stonehill (https://www.youtube.com/@paranormalresearchpaul)

g230FSHvk84
Description:

..Baksan Gorge is one of the famous gorges in the Caucasus. There are many legends about these places...
... But there is a belief that the Caucasus also had one of the entrances to this mysterious country...
...a basis for the theory of the German archaeologist Herbert Jankunn that the Caucasus Mountains became one of the havens of the...
..The Germans settled in Zayukovo during the war and went somewhere every day in the morning and returned in the evening...
...They were looking for mystical artifacts. Frozen...

[Bill Ryan]

Copying this post by Helvetic on his thread:

(https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?1383-The-Continuing-Search-For-The-Truth&p=1641192&viewfull=1#post1641192)~~~

Paul Stonehill | Strange Megaliths of Siberia: The Gornaya Shoria Mysteries | Nov.7, 2024

Source: Paul Stonehill youtube (https://www.youtube.com/@paranormalresearchpaul)

rGiPu-f_B3M

Description:

..., among which one of the boldest claims that these stones could be part of ancient structures created by a highly developed civilization, of which we know nothing...

[Johnnycomelately]

Paul Stonehill | Strange Megaliths of Siberia: The Gornaya Shoria Mysteries | Nov.7, 2024

Source: Paul Stonehill youtube (https://www.youtube.com/@paranormalresearchpaul)

rGiPu-f_B3M

Description:

..., among which one of the boldest claims that these stones could be part of ancient structures created by a highly developed civilization, of which we know nothing...

A well told story, and an interesting one. I like that he gives equal time to “it’s natural” side.

I’m on the natural side, much as I love big big old carved/fashioned stone blocks.

One pic shows the “wall” as the top of a part of a steep ridge line. Further down the ridge, is same-colored rock with a similar block’d look but less even/“organized”. Simple to check if it’s made of native local God’s Earth.

Had a thought in there, what was the last age of continental glaciers like in/on Siberia? Ours here in Canada, highlands of southern Ontario at least, on hard rock they left cool teardrop forms, common on the edges of lakes.

The glacier idea allows another mechanism for breaking those blocks. At first I thought a meteorite might be needed. If that ridge was a volcanic dike of something that was harder, then depending on the glacier height it (and perhaps neighbouring dikes from whatever put this original vertical crack in the crust) might have channeled the ice. With a right glacier height, adjoining channels of ice flow might have jostled the dike or dikes.

Gleaming ~perfect white original limestone surface of the big Giza pyramid, with the fancy capstone/top, stokes me. Am not impatient to know, to see, since my focus is on this life/incarnation, but I’m confident I’ll be able to access it somewhere down the road. Might check this formation out too.

Cheers, Helvetic. Cool thread here.