Discussion: Proliferating Dishonesty in the Alt Community

[Chester]

The OP is best reflected by Bill's post further down (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?99537-Discussion-Proliferating-Dishonesty-in-the-Alt-Community&p=1176380&viewfull=1#post1176380), here is the text:

If the theme is dishonesty in the community, the thread should also maybe look at



Sean David Morton (falsified his background and qualifications)
Lawrence Spencer (wrote an allegorical book and allowed it to be believed real)
Jonathan Reed (hoaxed an entire incident)
Quite a few Bigfoot/Sasquatch hoaxers


and, some may feel, many more.

The damage is very often done NOT by the initial perpetrator of a false claim, but by those who (maybe naively or credulously) then support and spread the story.

Factors that might be involved:



Narcissism (self-aggrandizement, wanting attention)
Sociopathy (lying for the fun of it)
Money
Something slipping out of control, and the perpetrator painting themselves into a
corner they can't reverse out of, or admit to
Paid/rewarded assets deliberately spreading confusion and conflict
(occasionally, possibly) Mind controlled influence.

It may be easy to imagine combinations of the above coming into play. For example, someone who's mind-controlled and narcissistic and who needs money... etc.

[Chester]

Not of the evolving topic.

[Bill Ryan]

Mod note: I shortened the thread title, which had initially been:

Discussion thread regarding Corey Goode and the proliferation of compulsive dishonesty in the Alt. Community.
That was so long that it showed up on my screen (truncated) as

Discussion thread regarding Corey Goode
My initial reaction (and I'm sure that of others) was: OMG, do we need another one? :)

The shortened title may help to present the theme of this thread, which is dishonesty.I really DON'T want this thread to be about Corey. Please, no. But if it can be about

frauds
hoaxes
dishonesty
plagiarism
exaggeration
and WHY this happens (and may be proliferating), then the thread can be interesting and valuable.

:focus:

[Chester]

Mod note: I shortened the thread title, which had initially been:

Discussion thread regarding Corey Goode and the proliferation of compulsive dishonesty in the Alt. Community.
That was so long that it showed up on my screen (truncated) as

Discussion thread regarding Corey Goode
My initial reaction (and I'm sure that of others) was: OMG, do we need another one? :)

The shortened title may help to present the theme of this thread, which is dishonesty.I really DON'T want this thread to be about Corey. Please, no. But if it can be about

frauds
hoaxes
dishonesty
plagiarism
exaggeration
and WHY this happens (and may be proliferating), then the thread can be interesting and valuable.

:focus:

Good with me and in fact... Just to this?

Discussion: Compulsive Dishonesty in the Alt Community?

OK, Close enough - Discussion: Proliferating Dishonesty in the Alt Community

[Chester]

So anyways... I found this video which used the term "compulsive dishonesty."

2qBBKFVxNUI

[Bill Ryan]

Corey, Wilcock, the Sphere Being Alliance, Stillness in the Storm and any other sources unnamed but related to "the story" these folks have put out

If the theme is dishonesty in the community, the thread should also maybe look at


Sean David Morton (falsified his background and qualifications)
Lawrence Spencer (wrote an allegorical book and allowed it to be believed real)
Jonathan Reed (hoaxed an entire incident)
Quite a few Bigfoot/Sasquatch hoaxers

and, some may feel, many more.

The damage is very often done NOT by the initial perpetrator of a false claim, but by those who (maybe naively or credulously) then support and spread the story.

Factors that might be involved:

Narcissism (self-aggrandizement, wanting attention)
Sociopathy (lying for the fun of it)
Money
Something slipping out of control, and the perpetrator painting themselves into a corner they can't reverse out of, or admit to
Paid/rewarded assets deliberately spreading confusion and conflict
(occasionally, possibly) Mind controlled influence.

It may be easy to imagine combinations of the above coming into play. For example, someone who's mind-controlled and narcissistic and who needs money... etc.

[Spiral]

Deceit & lies are always going to be at the heart of this topic, for the simple but hard to grasp reason that the phenomena it's self is deception.

It works hard to be anything other than what it is & therefore not expose the dark & terrifying truths that underpin our reality.

This means that anyone who supports a false picture, esp painting the phenomena as "positive" gets immense help, be it financial, fame, or being given the words to say that beguile & fascinate.

IMO this doesn't stop with the ufo guys, you can't help but see it runs into the occult, fake gurus (thats all of them plus some), Blavatsky & everything that her movement spawned, Crowley, and so on.

It never takes long for these deceivers to start doing group meditation, selling BS courses on "initiation" & talking about other non existent aspirations such as "enlightenment" & "ascension"......

Like Jacques Vallee said, "look at the meta data"...


:sherlock:

[waves]

May I please request that this discussion thread title leave off Corey's name altogether to stop any further highlighting of his name which is to his benefit and be further shortened to just "Compulsive Dishonesty In The Alt Community" or maybe even 'Deliberate' instead of Compulsive and/or plus the term 'Agenda Driven' somehow. I think this is a sorely needed thread on a topic that is ballooning rapidly and way more pervasive than the current stooge being pushed to the forefront.

[Justplain]

So anyways... I found this video which used the term "compulsive dishonesty."

2qBBKFVxNUI

Hi Sam, it seems that the psychological analysis given by this therapist fits many areas of discussion in the truth movement:

a) Sub-selves in the personality complex are apparently used in trauma based super-soldier development procedures, as well as trauma based 'manchurian candidate' programs

b) i remember one witness testimony of the development of spies who, as a wife of one, said she discovered that a lot of the agents were recruited as young people and subjected to sexual trauma. This trauma made the recruits emotionally dependent upon their handlers and thus easier to 'manipulate'.

c) Everybody lies sometime, this is a good point to remember

d) Your true self is not a liar, and can control these subselves if properly equipped.

e) Compulsive liars deserve compassion (in some cases a limited amount, i would qualify)

Now how this relates to liars in the Alt community is that i think we can easily assess that there appears to be a bit of a plague of compulsive liars in the ufology field. Understanding that these individuals need help is obvious. But the damage they are causing to a difficult subject is devastating to this area of investigation, too.

I think it is very important to call out liars when they are shown to be one. Bill and Richard Dolan did the Truther UFO field a huge favour by calling out Corey Goode. Bill has also cited Andy Basiago as having a credibility problem. By doing this, their assertions come under much needed scrutiny. After watching the Mufon 17 roundtable discussion vid, I felt the discussion matter of the roundtable was driven by Richard's demand for evidence, demonstrating the influence that Richard has and the validity of the concerns raised by him and Bill. This was further evidenced when i subsequently went to a site for William Tomkins, who just passed away, and the opening post mentioned a lot of the credibility issues raised by Bill and Richard about a level of evidence needed to verify Tomkins' assertions. So the question raising is having an effect. The Alt Truth Community needs continued leadership in this matter, so thanks Bill and Richard, because your efforts are bearing fruit.

[Chester]

May I please request that this discussion thread title leave off Corey's name altogether to stop any further highlighting of his name which is to his benefit and be further shortened to just "Compulsive Dishonesty In The Alt Community" or maybe even 'Deliberate' instead of Compulsive and/or plus the term 'Agenda Driven' somehow. I think this is a sorely needed thread on a topic that is ballooning rapidly and way more pervasive than the current stooge being pushed to the forefront.

This was requested in this post (a few posts above yours) -

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?99537-Discussion-Proliferating-Dishonesty-in-the-Alt-Community&p=1176375&viewfull=1#post1176375

and was done shortly after by the MOD Staff.

[East Sun]

I do not lie. period. Never have and don't intend to. Period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Chester]

Good Post justplain. I agree with it all. I would only add that for me, there is a line crossed with regards to compassion for the afflicted "mythomaniac" where the whole slew of vulnerable must be taken into consideration.

Readers should not misinterpret the next point I wish to make. Cults have been known to become dangerous for the vulnerable. The BA thing is now a cult. Only a cult can raise over $50,000 on a "gofundme" site in just 10 days in this community (note their goal was $5K).

As I was pointing out, cults can become dangerous -

Peoples Temple (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peoples_Temple)

Heaven's Gate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven%27s_Gate_(religious_group))

and these are extreme cases... Bill's post above (here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven%27s_Gate_(religious_group)))

is what I hope this thread begins to focus upon.

[Bill Ryan]

I do not lie. period. Never have and don't intend to. Period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That sounds like a version of the famous Epimenides Paradox.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epimenides_paradox

Epimenides was a Cretan, and he said that all Cretans are liars.

Was he lying? :)

:focus:

[Whiskey_Mystic]

There are outright frauds, but also many exaggerators. I think people exaggerate because they need attention in order to fund their endeavors. But then when their embellishments are discovered, it discredits all of their work.

[Bayareamom]

Speaking of... Here's the latest on Sean David Morton. Found this on Jimmy Church's Facebook page:

Jimmy Church
August 24 at 2:05pm ·

Sean David Morton's life as a fugitive came to an end this past Monday...the same day as the eclipse...when authorities caught up with Sean and his wife, Melissa, here in SoCal.

They both were arrested at a hotel in Desert Hot Springs, California on Monday when agents from the U.S. Marshal's office had followed Melissa Ann Morton to the location after discovering she'd be meeting with Sean David Morton there.

They appeared before a federal magistrate on Tuesday and both were ordered to be held without bond. Melissa Morton's criminal sentencing for her conviction in the tax scheme is scheduled for September 19th. No date has been set for Sean's sentencing hearing for his conviction.

[Bill Ryan]

Sean David Morton's life as a fugitive came to an end this past Monday...

Yes. Updates also on this thread, where there are quite a few comments about the whole saga:


Sean David Morton (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?88821-Sean-David-Morton)

(Sean will be sentenced on 18 Sept, btw, the day before Melissa.)

[Chester]

It is surprising to me that this subject and the above stated considerations are not provoking many comments.

But I do have a theory about this - PA attracts all sorts of folks as readers yet perhaps 10% actually join. And of those who join, some post and some don't and only a handful of those who join become folks who post often (like myself, and some may think... "too often" haha).

But also, I have considered that those who post and who also happen to have a history with "anomalous experiences" may also have struggled with the experiences themselves, the conclusions they have drawn (conclusions that likely evolve but the changes are difficult to express for fear of being viewed as a story changer) and thus may have publicly aligned themselves with certain paradigms which, may... just maybe, when looking back, seem a bit more "woo-woo" than where their world view stands in the present.

And thus it may be better just to stay quiet on the matter.

If my theory has any merit then I would be an exception in the following way - when I was young I embellished. I did so more than what I now consider necessary. How could any embellishment be necessary? Sometimes if someone is trying to convey a point where they are able to use a real life experience in so doing, sometimes a bit of creativity makes the point better. The underlying experience may be true, but some of the details "told" may not be true. I share this with readers because I was also able to overcome this habit of my youth (albeit I would only say 99% overcome).

One reason I overcame this was because, over time, I experienced such a degree of anomalous activity (almost entirely based on synchronicity, much of it documented) that I believe I felt less and less an urge to enhance my stories because the exact, precise truth was fantastical enough.

What the above reveals is that potential of underlying narcissism and megalomania and perhaps a potential towards compulsive behavior in general (which would likely include compulsive story telling.

[Chester]

There is an excellent book that came out a few years ago that suggests a way to approach the anomalous that avoids much of the "trouble." I menationed the book here in this thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?99426-The-Super-Natural-by-Whitley-Strieber-and-Jeffrey-J.-Kripal&p=1174654&viewfull=1#post1174654).

I have come to see the development of the following pattern when it comes to folks who have experienced one or more anomalous experiences.

I have described this in several posts and here are the links -

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?97313-The-Truth-about-Corey-Goode&p=1173857&viewfull=1#post1173857

detailed best here -

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?99259-Are-personal-experiences-proof&p=1173064&viewfull=1#post1173064


consider the following (typical) flow...

an event occurs that is observed by "someone"

That someone is perceiving their experience.

That person then may begin to interpret what they perceived that they experienced.

That person then might begin to form conclusions about their experience.

These conclusions may support and/or enhance an existing paradigm or become the seeds from which grows a new paradigm.


All along the way here... "things" can go wrong.

[Chester]

Several responses that appeared on the "Are personal experiences proof?" thread came from a member named Jayke who wrote (IMO) several excellent posts where this one stood out to me the most -

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?99259-Are-personal-experiences-proof&p=1173004&viewfull=1#post1173004


Just to build on some of the already well-spoken points of other members, I'd like to add that this is a philosophical idea that's been discussed since before the Greeks arrived on the scene. The Greeks however arrived at the conclusion that personal experience alone is just one of the pillars of a well reasoned argument--constituting the foundations of Pathos (an appeal to emotions and imagination)--appeals to emotion and imagination can be very persuasive (it's how many cults get formed) but in and of itself it falls short of any notions of proof.

The other pillars or gates that a reasoned argument must pass through are logos (details and facts), ethos (the character development of the individual making the claims), topos (the themes or metaphors an argument can be compared too to make it easier to comprehend) and kairos (the right ideas, presented at the right time, so that those ideas fall on fertile soil rather than being dismissed outright because the timing isn't focused on the topic at hand).

Or in neuroscience terms the unconscious mind requires 5 things to form a rock-solid belief, which can be summed up with these 5 questions:

What is it? (The rectification of names - Confucianism)
What does it mean?
How do you know?
How does it work? (Can you show me? I.e. Is it repeatable)
Why is it important?

Personal experience alone might only answer the 'how do you know' question...but unless you can back up your personal claims with the other elements the unconscious mind requires for proof, then that personal experience won't be considered as very convincing in the minds of others.

The point made by Kripal in The Super Natural emphasized not to through out the baby (the experience as perceived by the experiencer and honestly described) with the bath water (potentially false conclusions and especially the support of existing or the building of new false paradigms).

[Jayke]

You could easily rename this thread to 'Discussion: why aren't people in the alt community more enlightened?' Lol

That's based on using a definition of enlightenment the Buddha himself uses in the complete enlightenment sutra (http://www.buddhistische-gesellschaft-berlin.de/downloads/sutraofcompleteenlightenment.pdf), which talks about how the mind likes to make illusions and then believe in those illusions as though they're real. Enlightenment to the Buddha was the ability to see reality as it really is. "I the great tathagata" as he frequently refers to himself in many sutras. Tathagata is a title that translates from Sanskrit to "he who sees reality as it really is".

Even the buddhas 8 fold path is about aligning to right view, right concentration, right action etc...anyone who isn't aligned to the 'right' way of promoting the dharma is a candidate for proliferating untruths. The whole of Buddhism then is about how to untangle yourself from the grip of maya or illusion (untruths).

Alice Bailey and the theosophical society did a study into this phenomena, in her book glamour: a world problem (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Glamour-World-Problem-Alice-Bailey/dp/0853301093/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1503929876&sr=1-1&keywords=Alice+bailey+glamour) they explore the topic in depth. I've not read it the whole way through but the bits and snippets I've looked at deal with why illusions have such a glamourous and alluring impact on the unrefined human ego, why does the world of maya cast its spell on us to lure us into delusional beliefs and self-destructive ways of being in the world at the expense of our own sanity and harmony with nature.

How then do you learn to see reality as it is and promote dharma instead of maya, I believe that's what we were discussing more in those threads you linked to...overcoming cognitive biases to see the world through a clearer lens...


“The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.”
― Nikola Tesla

[Bill Ryan]

hey Bill,
What was Morton known for being premier at? Was he a good reporter? All I personally recall of him was he spoke out on debatable subjects and basically a voice in the alt community. Seen a couple of videos and recall hearing some amazing stories but without sourcing.

He did some important and valuable investigative journalism back in the 1990s (when it was much needed), with a TV series called Sightings. He did play a significant part in popularizing the early Coast to Coast AM shows with Art Bell, where he was a frequent guest. At his best, Sean was always articulate, entertaining, and compelling to listen to.

He also claims he was instrumental in bringing Area 51 to wide attention, but others dispute this. Glenn Campbell (http://glenn-campbell.com/detail/desertrat) (the 1990s 'Groom Lake Desert Rat') claims, seriously and in documented detail, that Morton was frequently pathologically lying.

It's a massive trainwreck. Just now, I went to the updated Wikipedia page:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_David_Morton

...and what's now there is literally almost painful to read. Do look.

Again, I do confess I have very little sympathy. He was a fraudulent, selfish thief — or turned into one. That's a fact: I was there.

And there's overwhelming evidence (see UFOWatchdog.com (http://UFOWatchdog.com)) that he lied about many things he's done. Even his own father stated on record that Sean was a liar.

But OMG, the entire thing is a kind of huge Shakespearean tragedy. There have to be many things to be learned here for everyone who's even just looking on casually.

[Joe from the Carolinas]

One reason I think there is an issue with the proliferation of dishonesty in the field is because there is a market for it. People want new, hot information. They're tired of legitimate documents describing multiple bodies and crash sites recovered from Roswell for instance. There is no longer a push for a standardized manner of evaluation / vetting (which I would argue begins with an unedited, complete interview).

They want sci-fi! They want movies! Even if they're fake, it's all about the visuals. Reading documents and books? In the digital age we're lucky if the average human can read for 10 minutes without taking a picture of their reality and posting it on social media (to get acknowledged by 40,000 people). Who cares if Dr Reed is also leading a double life as Dr Rutter! Nobody fibbing would breathe that hard in a video tape! :)

Add to this, a growing trend of permissive, unquestioned acceptance of any and all stories (aka "testimony") despite how ridiculous the evidence or lack thereof. "Well it is their reality, it is true for them". The true historian who spends a lifetime gathering names, dates, times, places, facts, witnesses, and evidence is eclipsed by the flashy marketed plagiarist.

[mgray]

The dishonesty is inherit in the alt community since no authoritative voice will refute the story (except in the Goode case).

You see it with Clif High's many asides in his YouTube videos. Sun dragging the planets through plasma without orbits, is one of my faves. Do you think an astronomer will stoop to correct him? No.

So the next tale needs to be slightly more outrageous to keep the plates spinning.

The pseudo-economic tubes are just as bad with outlandish claims of billions in gold stored in the Grand Canyon or the mythical Special Drawing Rights playing the savior role.

The alt community needs to demand higher standards and be a bit more discerning.

If you cannot produce primary resource evidence, then your tale gets filed in the oval file under the desk.

[Foxie Loxie]

I would say that what Bill & Kerry did back in their "beginning" cannot be replicated & is a big part of what got this ball rolling! :roll: Since many people will follow a charismatic leader, in whatever sense, we seem to be now stuck with this conundrum. Each of us has to make our own personal journey, so unfortunately, at times we stumble through life not really knowing what is going on. I, for one, am so grateful for Avalon & knowing that there ARE clear-thinking individuals one can learn from. :flower:

[UfonautRadio]

The sad truth, like any other cult offering. People in bad or lean times need these folks. Reality is too much of a bummer. Who wouldn't want to take a ride with blue dudes?

Also, since many are already religious, they buy into faith based concepts quite easily.

[triquetra]

I was a bit surprised that no one had yet described the potential umbrella over this whole category of circumstance.

Formally speaking, research is something that is conducted with a fairly clear sense that whatever is brought into the fold towards a line of research is taken in on the basis that it is extremely believable and there is so much supporting evidence, it serves as a fair foundation for progressing towards whatever it is one is researching towards in the first place.

Otherwise, potentially poor sources must be either pushed away or called into question in their entirety. With bits that are going to be really helpful in supporting your hypothesis, but don't have nearly as much supporting evidence as you'd like, you get the conundrum of really wanting to bring them into the fold.. so you look for other sources that can help that source have firmer legs. This is often really important because by nature some research is simply a lot harder to build up evidence towards than others, but at the same time it is the greatest risk - when you want something to be true so badly you start to go out on a limb for it (or a garden path). This leads to the other big risk, which is making exactly that same mistake yourself - presenting conclusions before there's really enough evidence to back them up.

Anyway, alternative research is a whole other ballgame than formal research because so much of the kind of evidence you would hope to have vanishes immediately. So you have to place your faith a lot more. This introduces an immense amount of additional risk in the sanctity of sources of information in this arena. Unless researchers are constantly saying where they got any element of an idea from, what sources they used to formulate a theory about something, you are going to just have to decide whether to believe them or not in the spur of the moment.

So you get a lot of this "do I resonate with this or that" type of approach that falls victim to exactly the risk I describe.

Now, what this is all building towards is an argument that the methodical tainting of information in this alternative research arena is an extremely effective method of generating a "counter-current" to this stream of information. So what ends up happening is everyone is trying to swim up this river, but the counter-current is carrying them back to where they jumped in, or even worse, further downstream in the increasingly deafening cacophony of (dis)information soup.

For those hidden hands, the easiest way to do this is not to go and get your hands dirty and present disinformation as a first party - no, that will not come across as nearly authentic enough for people to buy into.

No, you have to get people who really believe in what they are saying to start to take more and more wrong paths in their own research, and to get them to become increasingly convinced in more and more meandering garden path approaches to what may have once started as a more noble pursuit, or a series of life-altering events that put them on that course in the first place.

Those are the people that will convert others, spreading misinformation out further - the more popular they are the better.

This same process is evident over and over again throughout history, but certainly there is a particular flavor to it in the internet age. You could even get someone thinking they are really good at staving off exactly this sort of a thing - immune to outside meddling, because they've come as far as they have, and surely by now they must be past that critical point in their research and have a line on the truth that is definitely totally correct.

Anyway, it's kind of an alarming topic to expose, and certainly there is no need to name names. The only real useful takeaway I can offer beyond the basic realization that this sort of thing is definitely a big part of the picture in this particular world of information, is that there is definitely a way of cutting through the noise in finding sources that can really be trusted.

I've mentioned it before on the forum and it's essentially the same bit of advice - pay careful attention to not just what is said, but how it is said. What is the energy of the researcher themselves, is there an odd element? Has anything changed noticeably between some incredibly old bit of media from them compared to a very new one? How are they doing, do you think? Not just in their research, but themselves in their own journey through all of this madness?

I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, that many of these people may have at the very least begun with good intentions, but as someone who has had to deal with some of the sneakiest meddling you can imagine, I can offer no better advice than to say it is only the most extreme vigilance and sensitivity to energetic distortions that can keep a researcher safe from being led astray. As the "Something slipping out of control, and the perpetrator painting themselves into a corner they can't reverse out of, or admit to" factor implies, this probably occurs most frequently when the snowball effect of disinformation injection reaches a certain critical point - the researcher has gone so far down that garden path that they've committed to it publicly and perhaps in some form of print or widely shared media, etc.

When have you ever witnessed a researcher saying they were flat out wrong about some major topic they were trying to discuss in the past? Find me the researcher with the most evolved sense of humility and drive for self-development and growth, rather than the need to share this super totally important information with everyone else as quickly as possible... (you get it!)

[Smell the Roses]

This is true. I started to watch a YouTube presentation last night about the overarching plan of the federal government regarding the Internet, the controlling of the populace through mass hypnotization, etc. It seemed promising at first. Then in the middle of the presentation, the host showed the Zapruder film, while suggesting that it is obvious that Jackie shot JFK. I haven't made it to the end of the presentation yet to find out if the presenter is citing himself as an example of how people can be easily misled through misdirection. The person who sent me the link sent it as proof at the timestamp 12 minutes that Jackie shot JFK. I was shocked that anyone could accept this as proof, even thought I can see how the events of the Zapruder film matched with this particular narrator could lead one to think that. Every few years we get a new killer for JFK: the driver, now Jackie O., etc. That's more appealing and sensational than going over the deathbed confession that already came out a few years ago from one of the marksmen, or reading the testimony from multiple eyewitnesses about the direction of the bullet hole in the windshield. When I tried to discuss with the group that seemed fascinated by the Jackie as a killer theory, they were annoyed that I was messing up the sensation with a factual discussion.
One reason I think there is an issue with the proliferation of dishonesty in the field is because there is a market for it. People want new, hot information. They're tired of legitimate documents describing multiple bodies and crash sites recovered from Roswell for instance. There is no longer a push for a standardized manner of evaluation / vetting (which I would argue begins with an unedited, complete interview).

They want sci-fi! They want movies! Even if they're fake, it's all about the visuals. Reading documents and books? In the digital age we're lucky if the average human can read for 10 minutes without taking a picture of their reality and posting it on social media (to get acknowledged by 40,000 people). Who cares if Dr Reed is also leading a double life as Dr Rutter! Nobody fibbing would breathe that hard in a video tape! :)

Add to this, a growing trend of permissive, unquestioned acceptance of any and all stories (aka "testimony") despite how ridiculous the evidence or lack thereof. "Well it is their reality, it is true for them". The true historian who spends a lifetime gathering names, dates, times, places, facts, witnesses, and evidence is eclipsed by the flashy marketed plagiarist.

[mojo]

Another pov might be, How to proliferate honesty in the alt community? There is so much hoaxing and opposition to discredit truth its very difficult for research. There are few options to present testimony and evidence without a campaign claiming, doing it for money, attention, ego, or hoaxing and for sure people are doing that stuff and muddy the waters even more. How is it advantageous to continue presenting? Perhaps its best to keep private until some future time and understand that there are those silent witnesses even now.

[Alpha141]

Hi all,

I want to offer my perspectives to consider for what is / has been going on relative to this.....I see it pretty clearly.

I work with Andrew Bartzis for transparency sake here. I don't speak for him here in any way. That would be a boundary violation. I just wanting to offer you all something relative to a question i asked about him. And, the perception of him in 1000yrs time would be. I ask him this in a video i have made for him that hasn't been released yet as a whole. I did however include the specific clip in my pt22 of the Conscious Explorer Series i made in the last few months. If you want to explore it my info has avenues.

I personally love to hear teachers in their own words. It has been a vital cog to my journey. That is why i created that series for others to explore the many teachers there. To aid people accelerating in this time. His perceptions are pretty phenomenal. Hard to comprehend yet though for many ok. If at the moment he isn't someone or won't be someone you explore all cool. It isn't about him or anything related to that or me. The question i asked him is about the effect he has on humanity in 1000yrs time into the future. What he said is that over the next 90yrs. There will be approx 200 teachers revered to the level of Plato, Socrates, Aristotle etc. And, because he first started around 2012. He would be see as one of the originators when times were extremely difficult and volatile. Pretty big call possibly. But, i offer that in context to what i offer below. As, despite what many of you have felt and have seen relative to this thread. Maybe there is a process going on to have really amazing teachers who haven't revealed themselves yet the place going forth. You and I out there getting sick and tired of a constant theme of compromised individuals is aiding to this process in the works. Take it any way you want.

So, for me...

A big shakeout (and maybe constant shakeout with an increasing rate) of these sorts of explorations are going to be a factor going forth. In relation to individuals who gain sway over the community imho. Having an influence over many now that have personal gain vs altruistic aspects is really going to be an interesting comedy to watch. Maybe really disturbing too as some people you thought you could finally trust prove to be opposite also. I really suggest hardening yourself to these sorts of things and removing judging the source of the information you gain and invest more energy in cross referencing information if possible. Focus on your own infinite awareness or refocus back to it more. For instance, i my past i explore why i allowed someone to have an influence over me. I don't play the victim to where i was in that moment. I explore the why in me as that is the component i can control or master. Don't let the drama interfere with your infinite potential. We are in an incarnation war that has gone on a long time. Our memory is wiped at birth and we are aiming to get up to speed asap. This sort of information avenue is the acceleration path and gaining the data threshold to get to remembering being triggered. Your intent to be here is by the nature a major target to that negation also. As regaining that understanding IS what drives people to explore the teachers this thread is aimed at appreciating.

There will be proportional consequential outcomes built into being on Earth now for what people justify in their actions equal the scale of influence. This goes beyond 'outing' people in places like this. Life speaks alot. This also excludes the negative influences this reality have which include remote influencer aspects (yes...i offer that as something to really take note of now as a potential). Who use systems to identify these sorts of people and mess with people associated with them also. To compromise associated individuals around potential teachers as avenue of influence same thing for a potential teacher also. As there is also an effort to negate people who actually can contribute positively. It has been going on for a long time. The psychic defense mastery required for defending this sort of powerful focused attack really isn't appreciated either at all. So, for instance. A money situation is a avenue for instance. Money is a real fabric requirement we all have living here. The majority are not sovereign of it's energy interference yet. Like Neo in the matrix in that life force sucking tub before he took the pill. When larger sums are 'up for grabs'....greed themes might be used as a Trojan horse for instance. That emotion is used as the Trojan horse to create a energy field compromise. Our emotions are the source to our power as a universal being. Our defense is based upon their mastery also and most on Earth realistically are passengers to their emotional states. Greed (for this example) is hijacked and an individual's really destroying possibilities are the result. Which can be used to create a perception in the public that the figure entangled with this mess is the cause of the mess. Resulting in the public's perception of this individual being something to avoid. I use greed and money as just one example. There are many others too ok. See it as a pattern though. Compromised individual and external focused influence are separate.

To me...this is a constant reminder to me at all times to do the right thing for the situation as a total. Not, right by me in the moment in any situation. Not just for that moment effect to but for all time effect going forth also. Because exploring a situation that in that moment may seem like a backwards step allows avenues of potentials not perceived previously to be revealed. Doing the right thing with a short term gain allows positive potentials down the track This has been a constant theme to me for many years. It isn't about others knowing (though the extremely perceptive people know this as you are transparent to them). It is about you knowing this deep down about yourself.

Authenticity is a massive vital expression to live by now therefore. People 'know' it in you on many levels. Transparency is going to be core going forth despite the desire to keep truths hidden. I know i feel a lot just via the energy in people's words. The frequency of their voice. Linguistics etc. Energy of an individual and geographic distance do not matter at all either. Everything potentially is contained in anything offered to the perceptive people now. There is also this massive desire to contribute by a lot of people. The method in which people go about getting to that level to contribute to larger numbers totally undermines a lot of teachers also. Getting to that plateau of influence no matter the cost doesn't cut it also now.

There are a lot of people exploring information looking for that one wrong component of a potential teacher to shut down the need to explore their entire body of work also though too. And, those efforts to get to that point of influence can be the thing that alot find that justifies them not being a valid teacher also. Miyamoto Musashi, the greatest Samurai Warrior could be a teacher re this possibility. He was a pretty horrific character but wrote the book of Five Rings as a result of what he gained from the experiences. If you saw what he did earlier it could shut down finding that book etc. This is just something to also have as a variable. Explore teachers yourself rather than opinions so much. There might be a component that only fits your journey that others don't get.

The other thing. Is that people's perceptions of misguided activities are going to be on a consistent rise overall. Though this reality is defined as 3D people within it aren't. Especially those here on this forum. Which for me is like a perception beach head for some greater awareness collectively brewing. The ability to discern. People may think they have gotten away with something but it is in your energy field. It will be in your voice frequency. Your word patterns etc. The ability to see through the illusion of people's effort to project a perceptions is only going to increase in transparency over time. So...i am sure many here innately know this like myself so justifying some short term gain which will be transparent to the people who. Hence the shakeout.

This is already pretty long and hope it makes sense. So i don't want to make it any longer. Just something to consider potentially. I use it as a reminder to me about being the best i can be mainly.

Goodluck all

[Foxie Loxie]

Like the term "the shakeout"! :yes4: