Paid Patriotism

[Fellow Aspirant]

So, lately I've been wondering about how and when a professional sport like football became so enmeshed in the practices of overt displays of patriotism.

How and when did this start? How and when did it become so normalized that it's now expected - to the point where some Americans are enraged when players refuse to play along? Turns out that there are actually answers to these questions.

As explained in the article below, the "Why?" is money, and the "When?" is the year 2009.
Additionally, the money was unknowingly supplied by American taxpayers, because the Department of Defense thought it was a good idea:


NFL Teams Stayed in Locker Rooms For Anthem Until 2009—Then DoD Began ‘Paying for Patriotism’

For decades, NFL teams sat in the locker room during the anthem. Only in 2009 and after did teams start showing up and get paid for their patriotism.
By Jay Syrmopoulos
-
September 25, 2017


President Trump’s condemnation of NFL players that choose to kneel, rather than stand for the national anthem, reignited a national debate that began with Colin Kaepernick’s decision not to stand for the anthem last season as a protest against police brutality.

Over the weekend a plethora of players and even entire teams chose to either kneel or stay in the locker room during the playing of the national anthem – while many NFL owners released statements eliciting support for players who choose not to stand.

What many people are missing in this debate is the fact that prior to 2009, NFL teams did not generally stand for the anthem. While having the option to do so individually if they chose to, most of the time they stayed in the locker room during this pregame ritual.

In fact, Tom E. Curran of Comcast Sportsnet New England reported, in August 2016, that NFL spokesman Brian McCarthy confirmed that the now common practice of players standing on the field together for the national anthem only began in 2009.
“NFL spokesman Brian McCarthy confirmed this morning the practice began in 2009, adding, ‘As you know, the NFL has a long tradition of patriotism. Players are encouraged but not required to stand for the anthem.’”

Additionally, it has come to light that many of the “patriotic” pregame displays in the NFL are simply propaganda displays that were paid for by the U.S. Department of Defense and the National Guard – meaning that these displays were actually paid for by the American taxpayers.

These displays of patriotic propaganda, called “paid patriotism,” were brought to light in April 2015, when Arizona Senator Jeff Flake released a statement condemning the practice.

Then in November 2015, Flake and fellow Arizona Republican Sen. John McCain issued a report stating that the U.S. Department of Defense had been paying the NFL for patriotic displays in football and other sports between 2011 and 2014:

Contrary to the public statements made by DOD and the NFL, the majority of the contracts — 72 of the 122 contracts we analyzed — clearly show that DOD paid for patriotic tributes at professional football, baseball, basketball, hockey, and soccer games. These paid tributes included on-field color guard, enlistment and reenlistment ceremonies, performances of the national anthem, full-field flag details, ceremonial first pitches͕ and puck drops. The National Guard paid teams for the “opportunity” to sponsor military appreciation nights and to recognize its birthday. It paid the Buffalo Bills to sponsor its Salute to the Service game. DOD even paid teams for the “opportunity” to perform surprise welcome home promotions for troops returning from deployments and to recognize wounded warriors. While well intentioned, we wonder just how many of these displays included a disclaimer that these events were in fact sponsored by the DOD at taxpayer expense. Even with that disclosure, it is hard to understand how a team accepting taxpayer funds to sponsor a military appreciation game, or to recognize wounded warriors or returning troops, can be construed as anything other than paid patriotism.

In total, the Department of Defense paid 14 NFL teams $5.4 million from 2011 to 2014 for patriotic propaganda during NFL games.

U.S. Sen. Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.) called the spending wasteful spending that “leaves a bad taste in your mouth”:

“Those of us go to sporting events and see them honoring the heroes,” Flake said in an interview. “You get a good feeling in your heart. Then to find out they’re doing it because they’re compensated for it, it leaves you underwhelmed. It seems a little unseemly.”



“They realize the public believes they’re doing it as a public service or a sense of patriotism,” Flake continued. “It leaves a bad taste in your mouth.”

Former congressman Ron Paul released a video condemning the practice, asking,

“Do you know why the NFL has become so gung-ho with military propaganda? It’s because the U.S. government pays them to do it! So, our money is taken from us, and given to the NFL, in order to propagandize us to support the Empire’s wars. That has to stop.”

The report by Senators Flake and McCain did not cover the years prior to 2011, thus having no way to verify whether this “paid patriotism” program began in 2009 – the year NFL teams began taking to the field as a team for the national anthem. However, logic would seem to indicate that it was not an organic manifestation given the widespread proclivity of teams and players to stay in the locker room during the anthem—for decades—prior to 2009.

The fact that all the teams in the NFL decided during the 2009 season to start coming to the field early for the national anthem seems to indicate that these actions, which were the exact behaviors pushed for in the “paid patriotism” propaganda program, were not organic, but begun as part of the Department of Defense propaganda program.


B.

[justntime2learn]

Patriotism is now a commodity in the US. :facepalm:

How long until they start trading patriotism on Wall Street?

Thank you Brian :handshake:



http://projectavalon.net/forum4/attachment.php?attachmentid=36225&d=1506428800&thumb=1&stc=1

[Foxie Loxie]

Thanks, Fellow Aspirant, for clarifying how politics & the NFL became cojoined! Used to be that was one place one could forget, for awhile, the ugliness of the scene around us. :noidea: As for our President, I would say people voted for him because he was NOT a politically correct guy. And, we must remember he IS from NYC!(not meaning to offend anyone) Oh, well.....we still have College Football! :cheer2: One must stay in Observer Mode!

[Helene West]

Paid patriotism? that is what people are getting out of all this?

You think the players were encouraged to come out of lockers in 2009 by accident?
That it began during obama is not surprising. It can't be 'Paid Provocateurs', right? Guarandamnteed that at least one of the players are paid or pressured by 'agents of change' to start this type of trouble.

Let me ask a seemingly unrelated question but it is actually directly related - Not long ago the chinese murdered over 90 million of their own people during the Cultural Revolution. It is mind-boggling to think of, but question - How did it begin?

I'm not talking ideology here so the types who write and read the besides-the-point article above will be inclined to start blathering imperialism and their other buzz words, I'm talking TECHNIQUE. How did that hellish epoch of murdering one's neighbors in the east begin?

[turiya]

I think Dave of the X22 Report has a good rebuttal to the title of your thread. It begins at the very beginning of the video - its just a few minutes long....
Also, I think the title of this thread could easily be written to read "Paid Sedition" as players are being paid to disrespect Americans in general. These guys, along with the team owners, ought to think about moving to Saudi Arabia and see if they can make the money they're making over there. Absurdity to the max!






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHHRXTSQwtw
"We need to understand something very important: The National Anthem and the country it is NOT the government. It is the people. That's why the Constitution says "We the People".

And we have to also remember that the flag is not Donald Trump, its not the senators, its not the representatives, its not the next president after Trump, its not the presidents before Trump. Its the 'peoples' country.

And what the NFL is doing right now... I don't think they have the 'high-ground' on this. And we can see that their ratings they have dropped. And it looks like the NFL might be in a little bit of trouble, here.

Now, when we look at this, we can see.... and this was put out by Big D & Bubba... and I thought it was very interesting & I just want to read it... And, they're saying that the flag is NOT Donald Trump:

http://www.curezone.org/upload/_T_Forums/Turiya_Files_/AVALON/TRUMP/GENRL_TWEETS/THIS_FLAG_IS_NOT_DONALD_TRUMP.png (https://www.facebook.com/328028680122/posts/10159363738730123)

[Chester]

Why do they play the medal winner country's national anthem at the Olympics?


Also note - the playing of the US National Anthem at sporting events as a tradition (documented) began during the US Civil War -

http://time.com/4955623/history-national-anthem-sports-nfl/

Read the following to get more of a clue.


Americans were so rattled by World War I that the game "almost didn’t happen," according to the World War I Centennial Commission. "Out of respect for the soldiers, baseball officials wanted to cancel the World Series between the Boston Red Sox and the Chicago Cubs. When it became known, however, that American soldiers fighting in France were eager to know the Series’ results, the games commenced."

Note that the Star Spangled Banner is known as the National Anthem.

Note that the professional football league which has made a huge positive difference in the lives of fans and players alike is known as -

The National Football League.

Note that due to the cooperation of two nations, we enjoy a professional hockey league which just so happens to play both, the Star Spangled Banner and "O Canada" before every game.

Fc3OO0IUPjE

[Chester]

Here's another beautiful song honoring our country -

LBEthtAKdAY

[Fellow Aspirant]

The point of the piece is that sports USED to be free of patriotic fervour - fans saved their passion for cheering their teams - but that the Department of Defense chose to pay the team owners for the right to piggyback patriotic symbolism and messages with the cheerleader hype. The players got no extra money, just the instructions to get out there and stand for the anthem while fighter jets thundered overhead. It became part of their job descriptions.

The Department of Defense got increased enlistment and more cooperation when it came to asking for increased budgets. Win win, right?

B.

[Bruno]

I am a Canadian. I think I am fairly patriotic. I enjoy standing and singing our national anthem when attending hockey games or other sporting events. However, I don't think standing and or singing a National anthem should be mandatory.

If we are going to even pretend that we still have democracies in the western world, we should be able to express our point of view and criticize the way our countries are run. Kneeling during a National Anthem is great way to get peoples attention, clearly even Trump is paying attention to their actions.

What unfortunately most people are not paying attention to is why these men are kneeling.

Even if we disagree with why these men are kneeling, if we believe in true freedom shouldn't we defend their right to express their ideas and concerns?

[Bluegreen]

There are two schools of thought being presented here, and I cannot disagree with either. Whatever the case, the fact is that these overpaid professional athletes are being put between a rock and a hard place. What I am afraid will be completely overlooked is the grotesquely overpaid individuals, namely the owners who (so far) have avoided any and all criticism. In the US, roughly 70% of stadium business expenses are paid for, every year, by taxpayers. Yet the owners keep about 90% of the profits, and as often as not pay no taxes whatsoever on these places of business.

All this hoo-ha about flags, statues, and songs are exactly what the PTB want: a distraction from their crimes.

[turiya]

Speaking about being divisive...
Yes, the flag & the National Anthem is about unity - bringing the people together...
As Newt has put it...





Newt on the NFL, 1807
(Sep 25, 2017)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_oysMgC3PY

[Chester]

I am a Canadian. I think I am fairly patriotic. I enjoy standing and singing our national anthem when attending hockey games or other sporting events. However, I don't think standing and or singing a National anthem should be mandatory.

If we are going to even pretend that we still have democracies in the western world, we should be able to express our point of view and criticize the way our countries are run. Kneeling during a National Anthem is great way to get peoples attention, clearly even Trump is paying attention to their actions.

What unfortunately most people are not paying attention to is why these men are kneeling.

Even if we disagree with why these men are kneeling, if we believe in true freedom shouldn't we defend their right to express their ideas and concerns?

The NFL is a business. The free speech protection in the constitution is in regards to government. A private business can decide their own terms as to "behavior" of their employees... and the NFL does this and does so all the time. They can also tell their players they must stand and show respect for the National Anthem.

Note the NFL told the Dallas Cowboys that the Dallas Cowboys could not wear a sticker honoring the assassinated policeman from the 2016 shooting of Dallas police officers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_shooting_of_Dallas_police_officers). Yet the whole national anthem baloney began with Colin Kaepernick wearing "police depicted as pigs" socks back in September of 2016. That is what started the whole thing. The NFL allowed him to wear those socks, yet the NFL would not allow the Dallas Cowboys the right to wear something that honored the assassinated policemen.

Any fair and rational minded individual is able to see "something is wrong with this picture."

36227

The NFL is a business. Everyone involved in that business makes money other than an owner who does a poor job (and there have been cases where that has happened, in fact... where owners have lost money). Every business has the right to make good or bad calls with regards to what increases customer satisfaction or decreases customer satisfaction. And we all know that decisions that decrease customer satisfaction decreases profits and may in fact put a business "out of business."

The NFL is now faced with the fact that their "official position" on these matters is overwhelmingly disagreed with by their customer base!

from here -

National Survey: Americans Agree with Trump on National Anthem and NFL Protests (http://www.breitbart.com/sports/2017/09/26/national-survey-americans-agree-trump-national-anthem-nfl-protests/)


Q7: Last week, Donald Trump said NFL players should stand and be respectful during the national anthem. Do you think NFL players should stand and be respectful during the national anthem?

Yes: 64%
No: 25%
Unsure: 11%

Q8: On Sunday, a number of NFL players knelt during the national anthem in protest of Donald Trump’s statements, including players from your favorite team. Does this make you more likely or less likely to watch your favorite team’s games in the future?

More likely: 30%
Less likely: 50%
No difference: 20%

and


Q1: What is your opinion of Donald Trump?

Favorable: 46%
Unfavorable: 47%
No opinion: 7%

Q2: What is your opinion of Roger Goodell?

Favorable: 12%
Unfavorable: 36%
No opinion: 52%

[Chester]

What unfortunately most people are not paying attention to is why these men are kneeling.


Hi Bruno... I always appreciate your posts and so my following questions are not meant to be antagonizing... I am truly wondering if you have the answers to the following -

Please, tell me what you think is the reason these men are kneeling? (wait...)



Even better... what was the original reason Colin Kaepernick knelt for the first time during a playing of the National Anthem?


And so then, I ask... what may be the reason these men are kneeling now?

[Chester]

The point of the piece is that sports USED to be free of patriotic fervour - fans saved their passion for cheering their teams - but that the Department of Defense chose to pay the team owners for the right to piggyback patriotic symbolism and messages with the cheerleader hype. The players got no extra money, just the instructions to get out there and stand for the anthem while fighter jets thundered overhead. It became part of their job descriptions.

The Department of Defense got increased enlistment and more cooperation when it came to asking for increased budgets. Win win, right?

B.

I agree with your statement that the NFL accepted advertising dollars from the US armed services because it is fact. I see that as spending money wisely because it is obvious that folks who enjoy competition may also be inclined to become part of the armed forces. I also see accepting the money as wise because the NFL is a business and their fan base is not put off by this specific advertising and in fact, may have increased because of it. Only the blind cannot see how the symbol of the country, the flag and the national anthem is not directly associated with the protection forces of their country.

So to conflate the business decision with patriotism does not make sense to me because the NFL exists in the form it is today because of the fans. The fans love the game and the fans have no issue with advertising by the armed services (as this has been going on for years... and certainly during the NFL's peak profit era of a few years ago).

The fans do not like the symbol of their country to be disrespected by those who have made far more money (and continue to) from the very economic system and country which many of these folks loved ones. family, friends and fellow countrymen have bled and died to protect.

Its not hard to understand this and the NFL has a big hole to climb out of now because the owners allowed the inmates (and their enablers - the establishment media) to run the asylum. The NFL could suffer some serious financial fallout from how they have handled the matter and this will result in far lower salaries for these "players" or perhaps, as in the case of Kaepernick - cost players their jobs.

[TinFoilSuit]

The NFL and every other professional sport are much more than just businesses - they are opiates for the masses, designed to distract away from the discovery of important issues. Attend a game or walk into a sports bar/pub and this becomes crystal clear. Fans screaming, arguing, and sometimes even getting to fist fights - over exactly what?? It's amusing that so many fans say "we" when talking about their favorite teams - sure because these millionaires and billionaires care sooo much about you the fan, right?

We have an ever burgeoning populace that can spout off all sorts of intricate statistics when it comes to players on their respective fantasy football squads, and yet alarmingly few of them can tell you how a bill or law gets passed - things that have far greater impacts upon their lives compared to whomever wins the Super Bowl. So when it comes to politics, the choice has been made all too easy for folks - pick Right or Left - doesn't matter which side you pick, just pick one and hate the other as you're told. Just like in sports. Hate tha Yankees if you're a Red Sox fan. Hate Man U, if you're Chelsea. Hate Republicans if you're a Democrat.

Meanwhile up the luxury box, somebody is whispering "just divide and conquer, baby. Divide and conquer."

TFS

[Bluegreen]

The NFL and every other professional sport are much more than just businesses - they are opiates for the masses, designed to distract away from the discovery of important issues.

We have an ever burgeoning populace that can spout off all sorts of intricate statistics when it comes to players on their respective fantasy football squads, and yet alarmingly few of them can tell you how a bill or law gets passed - things that have far greater impacts upon their lives compared to whomever wins the Super Bowl. So when it comes to politics, the choice has been made all too easy for folks - pick Right or Left - doesn't matter which side you pick, just pick one and hate the other as you're told. Just like in sports. Hate tha Yankees if you're a Red Sox fan. Hate Man U, if you're Chelsea. Hate Republicans if you're a Democrat.

Agree

http://weknowmemes.com/generator/uploads/generated/g143113867269999393.jpg

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?95842-Illuminati-Programming-that-is-The-Super-Bowl-The-NFL

[Chester]

Like "conspirotainment" is too? Another opium?

Just speaking for myself... this is often what it is for me, a form of enjoyment.

[turiya]

For decades, NFL teams sat in the locker room during the anthem. Only in 2009 and after did teams start showing up and get paid for their patriotism.
By Jay Syrmopoulos
-
September 25, 2017





1945: NFL commissioner Elmer Layden said,

"The playing of the national anthem should be as much a part of every game as the kickoff.
We must not drop it simply because the war is over.
We should never forget what it stands for."





1982 Diana Ross sang the National Anthem... and guess what.... The players & coaches are NOT in the locker room, cuz you can see the players & coaches on the field.

1982 The Star Spangled Banner
Sung by Diana Ross - at the Pontiac Silverdome

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGAki6VTx1Y

[Bluegreen]

I went looking for this too, turiya. The Diana Ross clip is from the Super Bowl, which is kind of a different deal. All the regular season games I found on youtube picked up at kickoff, and none included the Anthem, so it was hard to tell. I would like to see a veteran player interviewed about this.

[Helene West]

Lots of good responses on the thread.

The link between the Cultural Revolution in China to what is purposely being done in this 'country' is disrespect. That is how the murder of over 90M chinese began. Disrespecting tradition. Disrespecting traditional icons and symbols, - until one's neighbor became a 'symbol' as well to be destroyed.

After decades of staying in the lockers during the anthem do you think it was an accident that they were encouraged to come out during barack hussein obama's tenure? Do we still have a hard time with the fact that people are paid to disrupt things? events, organizations, a website, a classroom....?

It's tangential to the overall picture but the twisted point of black racism today is to hurt white citizens in any way they can - in this case - what they were after was 'Enjoyment'. Yes, you can be robbed of joy. The players got theirs, they got their millions and now they get to stoke their bs sanctimony. The fans (largely caucasians) helped make them rich and the players get to take the money and spit in the fans' faces.
Someone above mentioned the black players being put between a rock and a hard place. lol. R u serious? they love this crap. It's the fans that are now being put between a rock and a hard place.

Saul Alinksky's "Rules for Radicals, A Practical Primer for Realistic Radicals" is only $8.77 on Amazon. If you want a tour guide to help you enjoy the destruction of your country, this may help.

[Praxis]

Came for the helter skelter, wasnt disappointed. Then, was disappointed.

[Fellow Aspirant]

The NFL and every other professional sport are much more than just businesses - they are opiates for the masses, designed to distract away from the discovery of important issues. Attend a game or walk into a sports bar/pub and this becomes crystal clear. Fans screaming, arguing, and sometimes even getting to fist fights - over exactly what?? It's amusing that so many fans say "we" when talking about their favorite teams - sure because these millionaires and billionaires care sooo much about you the fan, right?

We have an ever burgeoning populace that can spout off all sorts of intricate statistics when it comes to players on their respective fantasy football squads, and yet alarmingly few of them can tell you how a bill or law gets passed - things that have far greater impacts upon their lives compared to whomever wins the Super Bowl. So when it comes to politics, the choice has been made all too easy for folks - pick Right or Left - doesn't matter which side you pick, just pick one and hate the other as you're told. Just like in sports. Hate tha Yankees if you're a Red Sox fan. Hate Man U, if you're Chelsea. Hate Republicans if you're a Democrat.

Meanwhile up the luxury box, somebody is whispering "just divide and conquer, baby. Divide and conquer."

TFS

Well put, TFS. Professional sports is one of the biggest 'distractions' our culture has to offer. At the top (of this aspect, at least) are the mega wealthy who are fine with sharing a small part of the huge profits with the players, because they can't do it - they can just exploit those who can. Those who would fault the players for accepting meagre slivers of the profit for ruining their bodies fail to acknowledge just how enormous the sums of money in play really are. The owners never go broke. It's the fans who fund the show; let them boycott the league if they think the players are being overpaid.

Sports used to be a healthy distraction for the working class who could cheer for their home teams - now, (at the top levels) it's a money printing machine where the working class still labours under the illusion that they can cheer for "their" teams as a way of showing their home town pride. That situation is now merely a convenient marketing myth.

B.

[Chester]

Since this thread has transformed (and is off topic) and the OP has participated in this, I assume its ok to continue along these lines.

Note several posts back I asked two questions. No one has yet attempted to answer them. I will now quote that post in hopes someone might answer these two questions - asking if anyone might try and answer them...




What unfortunately most people are not paying attention to is why these men are kneeling.


Hi Bruno... I always appreciate your posts and so my following questions are not meant to be antagonizing... I am truly wondering if you have the answers to the following -

Please, tell me what you think is the reason these men are kneeling? (wait...)



Even better... what was the original reason Colin Kaepernick knelt for the first time during a playing of the National Anthem?


And so then, I ask... what may be the reason these men are kneeling now?

[turiya]

Since this thread has transformed (and is off topic) and the OP has participated in this, I assume its ok to continue along these lines.

Note several posts back I asked two questions. No one has yet attempted to answer them. I will now quote that post in hopes someone might answer these two questions - asking if anyone might try and answer them...




What unfortunately most people are not paying attention to is why these men are kneeling.


Hi Bruno... I always appreciate your posts and so my following questions are not meant to be antagonizing... I am truly wondering if you have the answers to the following -

Please, tell me what you think is the reason these men are kneeling? (wait...)



Even better... what was the original reason Colin Kaepernick knelt for the first time during a playing of the National Anthem?


And so then, I ask... what may be the reason these men are kneeling now?



From my understanding Kaepernick initially remained sitting down on a water cooler. After this initial sitting down postition, he then decided that kneeling down may not look soooooooo... disrespectful. So, in my sense, he had second thoughts about just sitting down during the anthem & then thought it better to take a kneeling postion... its kinda halfway between sitting & standing.


Colin Kaepernick chose to remain seated
during the national anthem (https://www.sbnation.com/2016/8/27/12669890/colin-kaepernick-49ers-nfl-national-anthem-seated)
by James Dator
Aug 27, 2016, 9:36am EDT
http://d317hpe4h9vlt8.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/colin-kaepernick-sits-down.jpg

On Saturday morning he spoke with NFL.com about his decision:





"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses Black people and people of color," Kaepernick told NFL Media in an exclusive interview after the game against Green Bay. "To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."

Source (https://www.sbnation.com/2016/8/27/12669890/colin-kaepernick-49ers-nfl-national-anthem-seated)

[turiya]

More on...


For decades, NFL teams sat in the locker room during the anthem. Only in 2009 and after did teams start showing up and get paid for their patriotism.
By Jay Syrmopoulos
-
September 25, 2017


Kelly Clarkson Star Spangled
Banner live 2006 Dallas NFL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi-cuPKeEwg

[Chester]

That's part 1, turiya... it was a protest against what is perceived by some to be an unusual and unacceptable degree of police brutality against Black people and people of color.

Yet what is it now?

[turiya]

That's part 1, turiya... it was a protest against what is perceived by some to be an unusual and unacceptable degree of police brutality against Black people and people of color.

Yet what is it now?

I think its the same... its all about playing the race card!
Politics has been immersed into sports... The left has continously used the race card.
And Trump is their scapegoat.
Scott Adams has a good opinion of how things are going... something hilarious about this, imo.


Scott Adams talks about the NFL protests
and how Trump played them
(2017.09.24)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCeToLZRHxw
____________________

First 16 Minutes is About NFL Taking a Knee

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8hDqPknt88

[Chester]

Yes but I would not call it the same... it has morphed into a protest against "racism" and a protest against Trump.

And sadly, most (if not all) of these NFL player/protesters do not understand they are simply being used. They may wake up when their salaries get slashed or the league folds and they go back to the real world... OR, pull a Tim Tebow and try their hand at baseball!

[Chester]

Note to the OP - the blog post you quoted in your opening post is factually incorrect.

I have attended hundreds (yes hundreds) of NFL games. The players were always there on the sidelines for the National Anthem as the game always started just after it. They always stood like we all did while someone played or someone sang the National Anthem. My first NFL game was in 1964 and at the Cotton Bowl where the Dallas Cowboys played at that time.

I have watched thousands of NFL games (yes, thousands) on TV. I never once ever recall seeing the National Anthem played and not watched the cameras pan fans and players... showing them standing, often hand over their hearts, always with any hat they may be wearing taken off, often singing the words.

from a more factual article - (here (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/sep/25/short-history-national-anthem-and-sports/))


One aspect of this history that has spawned some confusion in recent days concerns a change made in 2009.

Until that year, players in primetime games would remain inside their locker rooms while the anthem was sung, due to timing concerns for the television networks. After 2009, the players in primetime games have been on the field during the anthem, McCarthy said.

But this change only affected primetime games. For all other games -- typically held at 1 p.m. or 4 p.m. Eastern -- players had already been stationed on the field for the national anthem. So the 2009 change simply applied to primetime games the rules that had already been in place for daytime games.

This thread title and the intent of the thread is based on fact. The article used to support the point was misleading to the point it could be called deceptive.

[Praxis]

That's part 1, turiya... it was a protest against what is perceived by some to be an unusual and unacceptable degree of police brutality against Black people and people of color.

Yet what is it now?

Just wow. . . . . . . . .

[Curious77]

Let's also put it this way, the right wing has always tried to bury
racist issues -- like FBI having made numerous attempts to begin
a race war for the benefit of Elites.

Yes, the LEFT continues to put the spotlight on police brutality
which isn't some minor issue across our nation.

And certainly the shooting down of "black" males in the streets
isn't a minor issue either -- nor choke holds and other means
of destroying "black" youth, including prisons "suicides."

Police Brutality is something the nation stands against and is
making itself very clear about that --
and that includes Trump's own particular brand of racism and
sexism.

ALL political systems -- such as "patriarchy" and "racism" run
through every part of our lives -- including, of course, SPORTS!

Politics effects your life every day of our life.

Politics is also defined as "the shadow cast over government by corporations."

What that describes is Elite exploitation of the masses via their wealth and greed.




I think its the same... its all about playing the race card!
Politics has been immersed into sports... The left has continously used the race card.
And Trump is their scapegoat.
Scott Adams has a good opinion of how things are going... something hilarious about this, imo.

[Curious77]

Evidently you don't understand that the entire population is standing
against "racism" and exploitation of AA's here and police brutality --

and Trump.

The players, of course, are not being used any more than the expressions
of our citizens against "racism" and against Trump which can be seen
anywhere that comments are permitted to articles are fake.

Our citizens are anxious and ready to stand against this racism by our
corrupt government and against Police Brutality --

and against Elites/wealthy and their exploitation of citizens in every way
possible.

AND, btw, the NFL was paid handsomely to play the National Anthem by our government.

You can't sell this fake patriotism ... the US/CIA has to PAY to have it played!!

This is a liberal nation which stands against MIC/illegal wars of aggression by minimum of 84% --
and internationally its even higher.

[Curious77]

Fellow --

Thank you -- was coming in to post info on US PAYING NFL TO PLAY THE ANTHEM ...

and other BS "patriarchy."

American citizens understand the corruption of our government and the fakery of war...
which is about Empire and profit for Elites -- especially "perpetual war" made so clear
by Gore Vidal and so desired by the right wing.

Vietnam and the lies and deception of our government tell the story.

True it did bring a time when it was dangerous for the right wing to even try to bring
about war ... but they finally managed it again in the Gulf War/OIL -- or at least
pulled off a good fakery of support for it.

Since then, the right wing hasn't stopped in its warmongering and war making --
for empire and control of Oil.

And, of course, 9/11 with the underlying reason being war on Iraq.

Their earlier attempt with the attack on the WTC didn't quite do it --
likely a practice run. But they did try then to get Bill Clinton to attack Iraq
and he wouldn't go for it.

Looks like we also have a "crusade" going on for Christianity as W described it ...
with 1 million Muslims dead.

[Curious77]

It's all about faking "patriotism" --

Our government is totally corrupted from A to Z --

Both parties are totally corrupted by Elites/wealthy.


NFL was paid handsomely to play the Anthem and to rally support for MIC.

Sadly, that's the only way the right wing can rise -- on deception and violence.

[Bruno]

What unfortunately most people are not paying attention to is why these men are kneeling.


Hi Bruno... I always appreciate your posts and so my following questions are not meant to be antagonizing... I am truly wondering if you have the answers to the following -

Please, tell me what you think is the reason these men are kneeling? (wait...)



Even better... what was the original reason Colin Kaepernick knelt for the first time during a playing of the National Anthem?


And so then, I ask... what may be the reason these men are kneeling now?

-Minor edit so Sam doesn't think this is directed at him. Just responded to his question in the first part.-


My understanding of the situation, remembering I am not American and not a football watcher, is that they are kneeling in protest of the continued racism and police brutality against blacks.

Regardless of whether this issue is deemed to be valid (For the record I think it is) but I also don't care the reason as long as they (the men kneeling) personally think its valid and is something their country should be doing something about. Nobody should be forced to stand for their National Anthem and you should be able to criticize your country.

My understanding is that people were kneeling when Obama was still in office? I am guessing it's a bigger issue now because Trump has drawn attention to it and he thinks he can force people to stand up? Nothing would make me kneel faster then hearing that from the leader of my country! If our Prime Minister Trudeau had come out and said something similar, I would be down on my knees in the stands during National anthems at hockey games pretty quick.

I have said it countless times in posts on here. I learned that Obama was a pretender and part of the status quo- there was no choice in your election. Trump is as bad or worse as Hilary. Stop trying to make this another - you're picking on Trump issue. He is a billionaire, old, white dude that is use to getting his way and saying what he wants. Just because he runs off at the mouth and tweets like a filter-less drunk doesn't mean he isn't part of the establishment and isn't in the end a puppet to the "masters".

Sports aren't political? I can't believe that anyone could possibly think sports have ever been free of politics. Sports = Politics Sporting events of course are used as distraction from political decision making, but they historically have even decided the fate of nations. Never mind looking at the ins and outs of who gets to play and who gets paid to play and how much.

[turiya]

TAKING A PISS ON THE FANS

This is all you need to know about NFL football players and their bullsh!t protest narrative. Odell Beckam, a lowlife narcissistic scumbag punk, impersonates a dog taking a piss in the end zone. I think it fits pretty well. He represents all the feral dogs roaming our streets killing, raping, and robbing. And pissing on the fans who paid $200 to watch this disgusting display. http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/09/25/03/44B05D5700000578-4916144-image-m-36_1506307174371.jpg

Paid Sedition

Guest Post by Ol’ Remus (http://www.woodpilereport.com/)

The wave of fist salutes, mass kneel downs and absences during the national anthem is having a seriously bad effect on pro football’s bottom line

==>http://www.woodpilereport.com/art/art-link-symbol-tiny-grey-arrow-only-rev01.gif (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4918784/NFL-Sunday-Night-Football-ratings-dip-Trump-s-attack.html).

Ratings tumble: NFL's Sunday Night Football sees an eight percent decline in viewers following a weekend of criticism from President Donald Trump (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4918784/NFL-Sunday-Night-Football-ratings-dip-Trump-s-attack.html)


The NFL claims they’re surprised and disappointed about the decline of attendance and viewers. Unlikely. One report says they’re “praying for a turnaround”

==>http://www.woodpilereport.com/art/art-link-symbol-tiny-grey-arrow-only-rev01.gif (https://nypost.com/2017/09/20/the-nfl-is-praying-for-a-ratings-turnaround/).

The NFL is praying for a ratings turnaround (http://nypost.com/2017/09/20/the-nfl-is-praying-for-a-ratings-turnaround/)

Ain’t going to turn around because they don’t want a turnaround.

Black Power demonstrations during the national anthem are an in-your-face taunt, another middle finger salute from Only Black Lives Matter. The specifics aren’t important. It’s not about issues. It’s about The Diversity’s contempt for anyone not them. Yet they expect us to cheer them in doing for sports what they did for Ferguson and Detroit.

They also expect us to believe this is high-minded Age of Enlightenment stuff, not lame political posturing and race-baiting imported from the worst years of the ’60s. Their minimum goal is to push back the limits of our tolerance a little further. And anyone who calls them out for it is “divisive”, as if fan solidarity with their witless tantrums is a given. Sorry. So long, and thanks for all the fish.

The players call themselves athletes. No. They’re entertainers, or were until they became self-absorbed exhibitionists. They’ve made their choice, the NFL has endorsed it and doubled down, even though it’s obvious that insulting the paying customers is a losing business model. The sniveling and groveling by ESPN’s Chowder and Marching Sycophants Society isn’t helping either. Because it can’t. We’ve seen this movie before. It’s like autumn, no happy ending. Pass.

____________________

Colin Kaepernick can keep
sitting on that bench!
(Aug 29, 2016)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9VkN5Rb1Cw____________________

Colin Kaepernick - Yes you have rights
(Aug 27, 2016)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eimLZKxIDCw____________________

Colin Kaepernick Sits During National Anthem:
My Thoughts
(Aug 30, 2016)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e4XWEuw80Y

[Chester]

The protest started shortly after several police were massacred in Dallas on July 7, 2017. The issue morphed into a “protest against racism” and it is now a protest against Trump and his tweets directed at the matter.

The police brutality against blacks and anyone else of color (as if it is an intentional and driven by racism) is a myth derived by fake news to drive an agenda. Racism (and all its siblings like religious bias, sexual orientation bias, cultural bias, etc.) occurs in all varying groups whether that group is a community or nation, a religious affiliation or a sexual preference group, whether a skin color, or ethnic background and despite all the diverse forms of racism or any of its siblings you never ever once hear a protest about its cause.

And its cause is rooted in ignorance and bolstered by lies crammed down all our throats by the well funded medias (all forms) - all and only to put forth a very clear agenda – the total destruction of the United States and the US Constitution and the electoral process the Constitution lays out. They do not want you too look inside yourself and explore your own issues, biases, beliefs, world view, etc. which is how one moves from being ignorant to enlightened. They TELL YOU what you are supposed to think and they want to take away your right to have any other openion other than theirs. If you don't believe it - just look at Berkley - the supposed home of free speech.

Racism is a symptom of ignorance. Yet you never see a protest against ignorance. Ever. That is because the people who want division never want people to know they are being manipulated by their minions – the media... ohhh and… some of the political left, and all of the extreme left.

The NFL players are being used and are (for the most part) too stupid to see it or smart enough to see it but worried about how they are to be perceived by their teammates just like the NFL owners are showing they handled this wrong from the outset and are now in a trap because of their failure to see what was coming (and which is now here). A few listened to their conscience.

So get a clue folks - this is all and only about destroying the United States of America as it was formed and as we have known it (along with its flaws indeed) and its Constitution (which is the best government document ever produced in known history from the standpoint of rectifying its flaws) and its electoral process.

If you truly want to know what is going on in the United States (where this NFL baloney is just one small part) then watch the following 30 minutes or so (starting at 18:20) and you will finally understand. Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly

vhOFIZSApj4


This is what is going on. If you wish to deny it or make it about anything else, that's your right but also (IMO) it is denial.

If you are honest and admit that indeed, the analysis of O'Reilly (and Hannity) is pretty much dead on correct, you also have the right to say... "I like this... I like that this is what is happening. I like that the United States as it was founded to be and had become is now set to be destroyed."

And if you do, then you have a great deal in common with those who voted Trump in based on their belief he would put forth his agenda. Because what we agree about is the second part of the statement - "...and had become." I say this because the United States had been taken over by an establishment elite that used both sides of the political spectrum while quashing any upstart third party and had done so for at least a century - documented.

It took this crude man (Trump) who sometimes embarrasses me too, to have the ability to grab the megaphone and rally enough of the folks... folks who became sick and tired of the single party state driven by a well formed, un-elected and multi-generationally populated deep state... to get him elected.

This is what this NFL baloney is actually all about... and people either are ignorant and decide to remain so or are smart enough and honest enough to admit it whereby then they decide which "side" they want to be on.

Those two sides are -

The side that wants to destroy the United States as it was formed to be (and as many Americans wish to see it restored to be), the side who wishes to eliminate the Constitution of the United States and the side who wishes to change its electoral process.

The side that wishes to see the United States return to being the country it was formed to be; a country whereby through the processes established by the US Constitution, things like slavery, and all forms of social injustice can be addressed and corrected while preserving an individual's freedoms while holding them to the standards of law as that relates to their personal behavior.

One results in a complete socialistic government takeover and the other restores freedom.

I choose the latter.

[turiya]

Since Trump being elected, it has always been the so-called establishment left/right against Trump. Its been this way from the get-go. It hasn't morphed into anything else at all. And before that, it has always been the subjugation of this American Republic. Its been going on for quite some time.

Look at Obama when he first ran for president... what was he doing during the National Anthem...


https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-p8z-475G2Og/UBMKSRUmeJI/AAAAAAAAIO4/MshL9-7avlc/s1600/salute.jpg (http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1662530_1446035,00.html)
Can it be anymore clear?

Interestingly enough, Kaepernick is engaged to be married to Black Lives Matter activist DJ Nessa Diab.
And then, there's this Retweet from Nessa Diab's Twitter page (https://twitter.com/nessnitty)...


http://www.curezone.org/upload/_T_Forums/Turiya_Files_/AVALON/TRUMP/GENRL_TWEETS/KAEPERNICK_STARTED_KNEELING_IN_PROTEST_DURING_OBAMA_S_PRESIDENCY.png (https://twitter.com/RVAwonk/status/912083016377409536)
Paid Sedition

Trump has come along at the right time...


https://grrrgraphics.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/inauguration_trump_ben_garrison.jpg?w=660
.

[Helene West]

It's all about faking "patriotism" --

Our government is totally corrupted from A to Z --

Both parties are totally corrupted by Elites/wealthy.


NFL was paid handsomely to play the Anthem and to rally support for MIC.

Sadly, that's the only way the right wing can rise -- on deception and violence.



This isn't about 'government corruption' to me as you mention above. Yes, the source of the problems are the ruling class, most of whom are probably not even american.

But the Emotions are about a group of people who insist on this black victim / bad white people paradigm morning, noon and night, tired decade after tired decade with no acknowledgment that anything has changed for them, THAT THEY HAVE GOOD LIVES, that they are much of the time enjoying themselves, that black lives in many cases radically changed for the better and that they spend scant time feeling oppressed - Except in front of a camera or microphone.

When people with successful careers and who are millionaires can advertise they are oppressed and the culture is expected to go along with this we are essentially being asked to throw our brains, senses, intuition and human experience in the garbage. But wait, isn't that what a mind-control victim is? Everything mental gets wiped clean and is replaced with what your 'handler' wants you to believe.

Is this what the new racism requires of caucasians to be acceptable? We must be wiped clean and our consciousness replaced with whatever those that hate us want us to feel, and apparently what they want us to feel is - miserable.

[Chester]

Since Trump being elected, it has always been the so-called establishment left/right against Trump. Its been this way from the get-go. It hasn't morphed into anything else at all. And before that, it has always been the subjugation of this American Republic. Its been going on for quite some time.


The protest has merged with this very thing you correctly stated has existed for a long time.

The fact that it officially started out as Kaepernick's wearing of the "police pig" socks and then became his kneel down which spread to a few others across the NFL and what it has become today is correctly described as a metamorphosis of the protest.

I am unsure why you seem to wish to appear to disagree with this, turiya or... am I misinterpreting your posts?

[Fellow Aspirant]

Yeah I guess the writer made a niggling error, Sammy.

"This thread title and the intent of the thread is based on fact. The article used to support the point was misleading to the point it could be called deceptive."

Way to see it as a conspiracy. Nice catch.

B.

[Fellow Aspirant]

I guess some of our contributors see the whole 'knee-taking' phenomenon as the work of grossly overpaid black racist provocateurs.

Are the rest of us to conclude that you are fine with the terrible toll taken on black citizens by police officers?

B.

[Chester]

Yeah I guess the writer made a niggling error, Sammy.

"This thread title and the intent of the thread is based on fact. The article used to support the point was misleading to the point it could be called deceptive."

Way to see it as a conspiracy. Nice catch.

B.

This is what I wrote concerning the article...


The article used to support the point was misleading to the point it could be called deceptive.

Again - the article was in error but not a small error, an error of 500% or more. That is misleading and it did not take much research to find the truth. Thus it could also possibly have been intentionally misleading. That could be called deceptive. Not a conspiracy - a massive error (perhaps conveniently left to be so).

I don't know you but I long ago believed you held integrity (something I am certainly not always holding though I strive, especially on this forum). Your posts are always well written.

Anyways - these subjects are touchy and sometimes I think the very act of commenting on them opens up the great possibility of misinterpretation.


If we wish to explore the possibility of a conspiracy, perhaps we should ask why all the NFL Commissioner (who works for the NFL owners) decided in this particular case to ignor their own rules.

from here -

http://time.com/4955704/nfl-league-rulebook-a62-63-national-anthem-rule/


The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.

During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.


Notice how stringently the NFL enforces all their other rules? Why not this one? Is it possibly because they don't want to piss off their elite cohorts who are the forces behind the fake news which stirred up the emotions of the players that created this fiasco?


I guess some of our contributors see the whole 'knee-taking' phenomenon as the work of grossly overpaid black racist provocateurs.

Are the rest of us to conclude that you are fine with the terrible toll taken on black citizens by police officers?

B.


I see it as uneducated folks (not one or more races... uneducated folks) launched into the limelight where they allow their emotions to think and act for them... emotions lit on fire by the pressures of the politicized sports media (becoming "heavy left" more and more every day) which has taken their cue from the overall establishment media ("mostly heavy left" - few exceptions). And most of us are well aware of who funds the establishment media, what their agenda is and what their goals are.

The players are being used and haven't recognized it (yet).

The owners are held hostage by the club they belong to.

Now if someone agrees with their goals and is honest about it, I can respect that. And at least we could then debate as to whether those goals are good or otherwise.

That US cops are after black folks because they are black is a pure myth. Cops try and enforce the law and keep folks safe and try and remain safe themselves in the process. The conspiracy theory is thinking that cops are after black folks.

[Bruno]

That US cops are after black folks because they are black is a pure myth. Cops try and enforce the law and keep folks safe and try and remain safe themselves in the process. The conspiracy theory is thinking that cops are after black folks.[/QUOTE]

I guess this is the part that continually mystifies me. How many people feel that not only is race not a real issue but that white people/cops are being demonized. I think people are either too thin skinned or too self involved to take a look around. Look at who holds power, who sets the rules, the agenda. Look at who makes up the bulk of the prison population, the poor and the disenfranchised.


Returning to my original point though. Even if I disagreed with why these men were kneeling, I have a big issue with their employer, the state or the President himself forcing anyone to stand. I also feel confused by all the offence taken to these guys kneeling. I get that many athletes are paid huge sums of money and that many are arrogant jerks, but that doesn't mean they aren't allowed an opinion.

Trump is billionaire who insults whole groups of people daily, I guess unless you are in one of those groups who cares right?

[turiya]

Since Trump being elected, it has always been the so-called establishment left/right against Trump. Its been this way from the get-go. It hasn't morphed into anything else at all. And before that, it has always been the subjugation of this American Republic. Its been going on for quite some time.


The protest has merged with this very thing you correctly stated has existed for a long time.

The fact that it officially started out as Kaepernick's wearing of the "police pig" socks and then became his kneel down which spread to a few others across the NFL and what it has become today is correctly described as a metamorphosis of the protest.

I am unsure why you seem to wish to appear to disagree with this, turiya or... am I misinterpreting your posts?

Its not a disagreement, Sam.
It only appears to be a disagreement with what you are stating.
It depends on from where you are sitting to view this so-called "protest".
The brainwashing of the American public goes quite deep.

The undercurrent to this is the subjugation of the American Constitution & the republic for which it represents.
This agenda has been in the works from a time - before either of us were born, Sam.

Here's an G. Edward Griffin interview with Norman Dodd who tells of what he found through his investigation as part of his work with the Reece Committee.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8cC21jB9EE
The Complete Interview (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUYCBfmIcHM)

I follow this with what I've posted previously...

Since Trump being elected, it has always been the so-called establishment left/right against Trump. Its been this way from the get-go. It hasn't morphed into anything else at all. And before that, it has always been the subjugation of this American Republic. Its been going on for quite some time.

Look at Obama when he first ran for president... what was he doing during the National Anthem...


https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-p8z-475G2Og/UBMKSRUmeJI/AAAAAAAAIO4/MshL9-7avlc/s1600/salute.jpg (http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1662530_1446035,00.html)
Can it be anymore clear?

Interestingly enough, Kaepernick is engaged to be married to Black Lives Matter activist DJ Nessa Diab.
And then, there's this Retweet from Nessa Diab's Twitter page (https://twitter.com/nessnitty)...


http://www.curezone.org/upload/_T_Forums/Turiya_Files_/AVALON/TRUMP/GENRL_TWEETS/KAEPERNICK_STARTED_KNEELING_IN_PROTEST_DURING_OBAM A_S_PRESIDENCY.png (https://twitter.com/RVAwonk/status/912083016377409536)
Paid Sedition

Trump has come along at the right time...


https://grrrgraphics.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/inauguration_trump_ben_garrison.jpg?w=660
.

[Foxie Loxie]

Thanks for ferreting out the Norman Dodd interview...amazing stuff!! Who knew it went back to 1908! :highfive:

[Fellow Aspirant]

Hi Sammy

Interesting comments, as usual. :bigsmile:

As to my assertion that your fault-finding was about a "niggling" error, I maintain that you were actually reading more into the article than was claimed. The author was exposing the role of the U.S. military in superimposing a show of patriotism onto a public spectacle, (which was spot on) and he got somewhat sloppy. The gist of his piece had to do with the years 2009 to 2014. Any number of other attempts at invalidating this circumstance (by posting videos of Super Bowl anomalies or referencing events from different time periods) only distract from the original message, which I still think is a worthy one.

The hornets' nest of outrage that "kneeling" has batted out onto the picnic ground of the public forum only serves to show just how complex the issues around racism really are. For example, calling the kneeling players pawns of the corrupt system is completely wrong. If one takes the time to listen to the thoughts of the protestors, it is exceedingly obvious that they are doing so as a personal act of conscience - and placing their careers and sometimes their lives, at risk. Their actions are being taken as an attempt convey that they (black or white) are fed up with police brutality and are doing what they, as privileged, high profile citizens, can do to stop the violence. Pursuit of justice is one of the core values of the country - a pillar of the Constitution. They don't want to destroy the country, they just want it to honor this aspect of its own values. So, calling attention to flaws in the the legal system is a patriotic duty. And where better to call attention to their stance? The parking lot? On Wednesday morning at 6 a.m.?

Unfortunately, in many cases, the shock and anger in response to the protests has itself a strong streak of racism. To decry the use of the "race card" is singularly obtuse, for example. OF COURSE it's about racism - that's the whole point! But to demonize the protestors as "using the race card", to de-legitimize them by faulting their intent, betrays a willful ignorance.

And seeing the protests as "unpatriotic" is to spray the flames with a firehose of gasoline. Annnnnd ... if the military had not gotten involved, things would not be so complicated and so gut wrenching.

Be well.

Brian

[Bluegreen]

These two young veterans (military and NFL) speak from experience I don't have
(2:25)
w1lnCUaLqGg

[Helene West]

Hi Sammy

Interesting comments, as usual. :bigsmile:

As to my assertion that your fault-finding was about a "niggling" error, I maintain that you were actually reading more into the article than was claimed. The author was exposing the role of the U.S. military in superimposing a show of patriotism onto a public spectacle, (which was spot on) and he got somewhat sloppy. The gist of his piece had to do with the years 2009 to 2014. Any number of other attempts at invalidating this circumstance (by posting videos of Super Bowl anomalies or referencing events from different time periods) only distract from the original message, which I still think is a worthy one.

The hornets' nest of outrage that "kneeling" has batted out onto the picnic ground of the public forum only serves to show just how complex the issues around racism really are. For example, calling the kneeling players pawns of the corrupt system is completely wrong. If one takes the time to listen to the thoughts of the protestors, it is exceedingly obvious that they are doing so as a personal act of conscience - and placing their careers and sometimes their lives, at risk. Their actions are being taken as an attempt convey that they (black or white) are fed up with police brutality and are doing what they, as privileged, high profile citizens, can do to stop the violence. Pursuit of justice is one of the core values of the country - a pillar of the Constitution. They don't want to destroy the country, they just want it to honor this aspect of its own values. So, calling attention to flaws in the the legal system is a patriotic duty. And where better to call attention to their stance? The parking lot? On Wednesday morning at 6 a.m.?

Unfortunately, in many cases, the shock and anger in response to the protests has itself a strong streak of racism. To decry the use of the "race card" is singularly obtuse, for example. OF COURSE it's about racism - that's the whole point! But to demonize the protestors as "using the race card", to de-legitimize them by faulting their intent, betrays a willful ignorance.

And seeing the protests as "unpatriotic" is to spray the flames with a firehose of gasoline. Annnnnd ... if the military had not gotten involved, things would not be so complicated and so gut wrenching.

Be well.

Brian


Yes, there was racism going on at the event. Meant largely towards the fans, mostly white and towards the president, a white (alpha) male. There was a definite message from the race hustlers. F* to the majority white fanbase that helped make the players rich, 'we don't want you enjoying anything', 'we only want you to dwell on how bad you are', was their real message to the majority of the audience.

Have you ever been involved in any political or civic activism or event? No activist worth their salt would have tried to call empathetic attention to their cause with the circumstances the naive players chose as their vehicle. A real activist doesn't plan an event with the goal of becoming more unpopular. The idea for this did not come from these players unless one of them is on abc agency payola or pressure.

But the drama-rama of this showboating media event is nothing in the scheme of things, in the big pic.

I doubt you listened to the vid above from Turiya above with a younger G Edward Griffin interviewing the older former banker turned activist, whistleblower back in 1982. The vid is about the Big Picture, the intentions of the richest in the world, the real movers, shakers, those who own much or most of the assets of the world, who have their own distinct idea of how the planet and those on it should be run. They rule, but not yet solely, not yet 100%.....

[Helene West]

Turiya

Thanks so much for the vid interview by G Ed Griffin and the former banker. What a gem this vid is!.
I watched it once but will again for some names and dates, etc. Two men of integrity quietly uncovering sad and powerful truths about how the world is run.

[TargeT]

the terrible toll taken on black citizens by police officers?


Why can't it be the terrible toll taken on citizens by police officers?

Cuz if we want to play the numbers game "racism" doesn't pan out there....

[Chester]

Some folks who are members (or Mods) hold the opinion that an elite desires to divide us.

My opinion is that only if we (the "not elite") remain ignorant (willful stupidity) can the elite succeed. As an oddsmaker, I make the elite a big favorite to achieve their goal. I say this because I observe too many folks believing myths instead of doing their own homework. I see too many people creating (or allowing to be planted) attitudes where then by their own doing they find themselves in situations where they react upon these attitudes (emotionally driven)... again, attitudes derived from falsehoods (again, "thank you media, etc.").

These situations end up as "bad experiences" which rarely do they ever see their own responsibility in creating. Instead they use it to build their own case to further believ lies, myths... where always at the core is an avoidance of personal responsibility to know the facts and to be honest about them with themselves. Their ego does a good job in making sure they don't, making sure they blame the other, making sure they blame everyone or everything else while ignoring their own role in creating the whole mess. And what you'll also find in common with most of those folks is that they hold an underlying cosmological world view based on materialism. And that view is a hopeless view. No wonder there's the underlying anger (so suppressed). No wonder it has to be the fault of someone else or something else... the flavor of the era - this time it is now white supremacy.

Folks like this find others of like mind. In time, group think takes over... emotionally driven, irrationally based yet more important to any of that is the fact that it is all sans taking personal responsibility. These folks are all but lost.

I believe in miracles, hell... I guess being down 25 points midway through the third quarter in last years Super Bowl and coming back to win might be seen as a miracle - so miracles do happen. How ironic the team that did that was "The Patriots."

I hold out hope that folks wake up and realize their own personal responsibility in a.) knowing what you are talking about (by doing sound research and not buying the narratives of a lying media) and b.) not playing their role in creating experiences which support that which they have chosen to believe which is false.

Good luck... humanity.



...and so I ask Fellow Aspirant, can we be blunt and honest?

Isn't it the US itself, the US constitution, the fact an electorate (and process) has the ability to tell the establishment - "we don't take it any more." Isn't that what has the left and especially the "uber left" so angry? So angry they accept without question what they want to hear because they have evolved into exactly what I described above - and eventually into one of the group thinkers and/or may even become someone who takes a leadership role without ever actually answering the all important question as to where one's own personal responsibility stands with regards to the circumstances they find themselves?

[Chester]

Hi Sammy

Interesting comments, as usual. :bigsmile:

As to my assertion that your fault-finding was about a "niggling" error, I maintain that you were actually reading more into the article than was claimed. The author was exposing the role of the U.S. military in superimposing a show of patriotism onto a public spectacle, (which was spot on) and he got somewhat sloppy. The gist of his piece had to do with the years 2009 to 2014. Any number of other attempts at invalidating this circumstance (by posting videos of Super Bowl anomalies or referencing events from different time periods) only distract from the original message, which I still think is a worthy one.

The hornets' nest of outrage that "kneeling" has batted out onto the picnic ground of the public forum only serves to show just how complex the issues around racism really are. For example, calling the kneeling players pawns of the corrupt system is completely wrong. If one takes the time to listen to the thoughts of the protestors, it is exceedingly obvious that they are doing so as a personal act of conscience - and placing their careers and sometimes their lives, at risk. Their actions are being taken as an attempt convey that they (black or white) are fed up with police brutality and are doing what they, as privileged, high profile citizens, can do to stop the violence. Pursuit of justice is one of the core values of the country - a pillar of the Constitution. They don't want to destroy the country, they just want it to honor this aspect of its own values. So, calling attention to flaws in the the legal system is a patriotic duty. And where better to call attention to their stance? The parking lot? On Wednesday morning at 6 a.m.?

Unfortunately, in many cases, the shock and anger in response to the protests has itself a strong streak of racism. To decry the use of the "race card" is singularly obtuse, for example. OF COURSE it's about racism - that's the whole point! But to demonize the protestors as "using the race card", to de-legitimize them by faulting their intent, betrays a willful ignorance.

And seeing the protests as "unpatriotic" is to spray the flames with a firehose of gasoline. Annnnnd ... if the military had not gotten involved, things would not be so complicated and so gut wrenching.

Be well.

Brian

No one has any issue with protest. No one has any issue with dissent. No one would have any issue providing these few NFL players who actually believe this stuff a forum where they could share their grievances. Conversations need to happen. They have needed to happen for thousands of years by the way. Sometimes they actually have. Sometimes small progress has been made. You won't believe my words but my own family went through this shift during my father's generation. My family paid a price (meant metaphorically) for that - one we were glad to pay.

But readers here can't step into my life to actually verify this fact and because I don't buy the leftist lie driven narratives too many likely will assume I am some racist, some white supremacist. I have already read comments from others who suggest this. I can only shake my head at the ignorance.

They never happened under Obama (and my guess is that was intentional BUT that is just my gut feeling). But the fact is that a significant majority of the fan base (the customers who pay to see these games) see this form of protest as in the wrong place and aimed at the wrong symbols. And this has the NFL ratings plummeting which will very shortly start cutting into the pocketbooks of the players just as much as the owners. And there will be a point reached where they will realize the stupidity of what they have done but... like I shared above, the wild card will be their egos. Will their egos be more important than their livelihoods? I wonder what the odds should be on that?

So it is all about "court awareness" Brian. Wrong place - Wrong symbols to target.

The manipulators behind this all know this. The goal is further division. These folks are pawns. Easy to see.

[Foxie Loxie]

The "change" comes one person at a time & Personal Integrity has a lot to do with it. Each of us has a Circle of Influence that is unique & the people we can reach might not be touched by anyone else. Yesterday Helvetic posted two short videos by L.M. Howe with Tom Campbell....I would suggest everyone watch those. It can really help in getting a "handle" on the entirety of the picture. :sun:

[Helene West]

the terrible toll taken on black citizens by police officers?


Why can't it be the terrible toll taken on citizens by police officers?

Cuz if we want to play the numbers game "racism" doesn't pan out there....

on Target! We're only supposed to feel for certain groups, under certain circumstances but you can be sure - we're not to feel for the majority citizens..

Talking about "numbers" am I the only one who would like to be a little fly on the wall during the determination meetings for accepting players? Black males are 7% of the population, how is it they get to dominate so much of sports? Is it really fair after decades of 'equality' ratios and affirmative action that a group goes from having no presence to domination of presence? Discrimination was wrong and had to be corrected but this country always has to go waaay past that and create more imbalance and inequity.

[Bruno]

Only a generation ago, less than 100 years ago people of colour literally had to sit at the back of the bus in the United States. In Canada as recently as the 1960's and 1970's Indigenous children were removed from their families and placed in "white" homes to be cared for "properly". These are but two examples of systemic racism - racism by law - This type of racism only just ended in the West. Many would argue it isn't over.

Let's pretend it is over.

Assuming as Helen mentioned that male black Americans make up 7% of the US population, then it certainly is odd that they make up approximately 70% of the NBA and 60% of the NFL. This same 7% also make up 40% of the prison population but only 5% of college graduates. Things that make you go hmmmmmmm.

Unless you believe that African American men are genetically physically superior or morally and intellectually damaged what else could possibly account for these statistics?

[TargeT]

Assuming as Helen mentioned that male black Americans make up 7% of the US population, then it certainly is odd that they make up approximately 70% of the NBA and 60% of the NFL. This same 7% also make up 40% of the prison population but only 5% of college graduates. Things that make you go hmmmmmmm.

There's a few numbers your leaving out (https://infogram.com/us-crime-in-black-and-white-1gzxop49q0okmwy), especially if we are talking about police involvement.

Here's one:
Black males have made up 42 percent of all cop-killers over the last decade, though they are only 6~7 percent of the population. (http://nypost.com/2017/09/26/all-that-kneeling-ignores-the-real-cause-of-soaring-black-homicides/)

black offenders committed 52 per cent of homicides recorded in the data between 1980 and 2008.

93 per cent of black victims were killed by blacks (https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-black-americans-commit-crime)

Do those numbers discount racism entirely? no, but they should bring the focus into a more realistic place.. we aren't talking black and white here, there is no clear victim and the numbers are by no means "cut and dry"; this is complex... and to write it off as "racism" alone will do nothing to solve the issue.



Unless you believe that African American men are genetically physically superior or morally and intellectually damaged what else could possibly account for these statistics?

Thinking there can be significant visual differences between races and yet they are all "the same" or "equal" is kind of ridiculous. We already know that certain races are more prone to some diseases than others; that average height and race are correlative, would there not be some that are more prone to athleticism as well?

No one is equal, but we all should be afforded equal opportunity.... that DOES NOT mean we will get equal results, just opportunity.

[Helene West]

Only a generation ago, less than 100 years ago people of colour literally had to sit at the back of the bus in the United States. In Canada as recently as the 1960's and 1970's Indigenous children were removed from their families and placed in "white" homes to be cared for "properly". These are but two examples of systemic racism - racism by law - This type of racism only just ended in the West. Many would argue it isn't over.

Let's pretend it is over.

Assuming as Helen mentioned that male black Americans make up 7% of the US population, then it certainly is odd that they make up approximately 70% of the NBA and 60% of the NFL. This same 7% also make up 40% of the prison population but only 5% of college graduates. Things that make you go hmmmmmmm.

Unless you believe that African American men are genetically physically superior or morally and intellectually damaged what else could possibly account for these statistics?


What's funny is when I wrote above I was working, in a hurry and the word I was looking for was escaping me for some reason. I meant to use "over-represented" not dominate or domination. Sure has a different feel. I figured after posting someone would bring up black superiority in sports :), particularly since I just about asked for that using the word 'dominate'.

A group that is 7% of the population gets over 70% representation or more? No one with yellow, brown, red skin or our biracial citizens, want to play? White males are 31% of the population and it's ok for young while males to see only 5% or 10% representative role models for them? Are we being led to believe everyone else is inferior in the sport or like so many other aspects of our culture has this 'over-representation' too been pre-planned?

[Praxis]

the terrible toll taken on black citizens by police officers?


Why can't it be the terrible toll taken on citizens by police officers?

Cuz if we want to play the numbers game "racism" doesn't pan out there....

on Target! We're only supposed to feel for certain groups, under certain circumstances but you can be sure - we're not to feel for the majority citizens..

Talking about "numbers" am I the only one who would like to be a little fly on the wall during the determination meetings for accepting players? Black males are 7% of the population, how is it they get to dominate so much of sports? Is it really fair after decades of 'equality' ratios and affirmative action that a group goes from having no presence to domination of presence? Discrimination was wrong and had to be corrected but this country always has to go waaay past that and create more imbalance and inequity.

Jesus. Not everything is some conspiracy to keep the white man down .

Maybe, just maybe they might be better athletes?

Imagine yourself a poor girl in some ****ty urban dystopia. Your parents probably wont be able to send you to college but they are just scraping by.

You play a sport and see it as a way to escape your bad situation. Then you shoot for that goal.

Could this not explain why what we see instead of some sinister conspiracy to keep the white people down and destroy.

And if it is a conspiracy it is still meant to destroy the black man who plays the sport. Did you know that three years after their contracts end in professional sports, like 95% are broke ? Do you realize the damage that footballers take while playing? They compare it to being hit by an IED in war. the CTE thing is being hidden by the NFL. I could keep going, but it is probably the cabal trying to keep the white man down .

Just a thought experiment . . .

but there is a storm coming, right Helene

[Helene West]

the terrible toll taken on black citizens by police officers?


Why can't it be the terrible toll taken on citizens by police officers?

Cuz if we want to play the numbers game "racism" doesn't pan out there....

on Target! We're only supposed to feel for certain groups, under certain circumstances but you can be sure - we're not to feel for the majority citizens..

Talking about "numbers" am I the only one who would like to be a little fly on the wall during the determination meetings for accepting players? Black males are 7% of the population, how is it they get to dominate so much of sports? Is it really fair after decades of 'equality' ratios and affirmative action that a group goes from having no presence to domination of presence? Discrimination was wrong and had to be corrected but this country always has to go waaay past that and create more imbalance and inequity.

Jesus. Not everything is some conspiracy to keep the white man down .

Maybe, just maybe they might be better athletes?

Imagine yourself a poor girl in some ****ty urban dystopia. Your parents probably wont be able to send you to college but they are just scraping by.

You play a sport and see it as a way to escape your bad situation. Then you shoot for that goal.

Could this not explain why what we see instead of some sinister conspiracy to keep the white people down and destroy.

And if it is a conspiracy it is still meant to destroy the black man who plays the sport. Did you know that three years after their contracts end in professional sports, like 95% are broke ? Do you realize the damage that footballers take while playing? They compare it to being hit by an IED in war. the CTE thing is being hidden by the NFL. I could keep going, but it is probably the cabal trying to keep the white man down .

Just a thought experiment . . .

but there is a storm coming, right Helene

"...keeping the white man down".

"and simple simon met a pie man..."

¤=[Post Update]=¤

In retrospect, it's not surprising that Football is under attack. What are some things that many have noticed over the year about the elites? They hate the sovereignty of a nation (nationalism) as we watch them destroy europe et al. They hate masculinity, alpha maleness, as we watch the weird popularizing of transgenderism.

So what is football? Only the most nationalistic and alpha-male sport in the country. Makes sense that it would be under globalist attack. Deteriorate it from the inside. Fill it, overrepresent it with non-white, mainly black males with history of ambivalence towards patriotism, etc for obvious reasons to begin with and then apply a race disinformation agent of one sort or another, for all we know Kaepernick's girlfriend could have been/is an agent.

At any rate, I'm sure most will take this entire event, now a sort of phenomenon, as some discrete extemporaneous expression for a cause, etc - when it's about as extemporaneous and discrete as Charlottesville and the transgender tool kits handed out in a Wisconsin kindergarten. It's all related.

That's it for me with this thread. The title was twisted but I appreciated many of the responses. But aren't the pieces of our NWO puzzle starting to fit together oh so nicely?

[Fellow Aspirant]

the terrible toll taken on black citizens by police officers?


Why can't it be the terrible toll taken on citizens by police officers?

Cuz if we want to play the numbers game "racism" doesn't pan out there....

Okay, fair enough, then "All citizens". Police officers can, and do, go apesh*t on the white folk, too. Maybe there should be protests about ALL police brutality, but in the case of the black players, I think they should be allowed to point the finger at the cops (black and white) who kill unarmed black men.

B.

[Fellow Aspirant]

Sammy

I'd welcome the opportunity to be blunt and honest (as we usually are around here, at least when it comes to our opinions, but I honestly can't figure out what you're driving at here ...

"
...and so I ask Fellow Aspirant, can we be blunt and honest?

Isn't it the US itself, the US constitution, the fact an electorate (and process) has the ability to tell the establishment - "we don't take it any more." Isn't that what has the left and especially the "uber left" so angry? So angry they accept without question what they want to hear because they have evolved into exactly what I described above - and eventually into one of the group thinkers and/or may even become someone who takes a leadership role without ever actually answering the all important question as to where one's own personal responsibility stands with regards to the circumstances they find themselves?"

Can you please clarify this bit? I'll do my best to answer.

Cheers,

B.

[Fellow Aspirant]

Hi Bruno

Re: "That US cops are after black folks because they are black is a pure myth. Cops try and enforce the law and keep folks safe and try and remain safe themselves in the process. The conspiracy theory is thinking that cops are after black folks."

I beg to differ.

This essay, by Andrew Emett, was published over a year and a half ago (last January, 2016). Things have not gotten any better since.
Source: http://thefreethoughtproject.com/record-number-cops-charged-murder-manslaughter-2015-single-officer-convicted/

“Although the number of cops charged with murder or manslaughter sharply spiked last year, not a single officer was convicted for these unjustified deaths. With less cops killed in the line of duty in 2015, the number of people killed by police increased yet again.
The accumulated number of people killed by police in the U.S. last year remains between 986 and 1,200, with The Guardian currently totaling 1,138 victims. Although many disagree on the exact number of fatalities caused by cops, most concur that 2015 saw an escalation in both the total of people killed by police and the number of officers charged with murder or manslaughter.
Within the last decade, an average of five cops per year have been charged with murder or manslaughter in fatal on-duty shootings. Last year, that number more than tripled as 18 cops were arrested for unjustified shootings. This number does not comprise non-shooting homicides, including the six Baltimore officers charged with fatally severing Freddie Gray’s spine. Nor does it include the cops who will not face criminal charges for the deaths of Tamir Rice, Zachary Hammond, Natasha McKenna, Troy Goode, or Antonio Zambrano-Montes.
On December 3, Pike County Deputy Joel Jenkins was arrested after fatally shooting his neighbor in the head while drunk and off-duty. Charged with involuntary manslaughter, reckless homicide, and tampering with evidence in connection with his neighbor’s death, Jenkins was also charged with felony murder and reckless homicide in a separate shooting. On March 28, 2015, Jenkins was on-duty when he shot Robert Rooker to death following a police pursuit after Rooker had already crashed his vehicle.

READ MORE: Sheriff Raids Good Cop’s Home, for Alleged 'Crime' of Exposing Political Corruption on Facebook

Chicago police officer Jason Van Dyke was charged with first-degree murder on November 24, after a Cook County judge ordered the release of a suppressed dashcam video depicting the officer shooting 17-year-old Laquan McDonald 16 times. Although Van Dyke claimed the teenager had lunged at him with a knife, the video clearly shows McDonald walking away before the officer opened fire.
On November 6, Marksville police officers Norris Greenhouse Jr. and Derrick Stafford were charged with second-degree murder and second-degree attempted murder for gunning down an unarmed autistic child. Six-year-old Jeremy Mardis was sitting beside his father, who was reportedly surrendering with his hands in the air when the officers fired 18 rounds into the car.
Three Santa Clara County sheriff’s deputies were charged with murder, conspiracy, and assault under the color of authority on September 3, after beating a mentally ill man to death. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder and with a history of mental illness, Michael James Tyree was waiting to be transferred to an adult treatment facility when deputies Matthew Farris, Jereh Lubrin, and Rafael Rodriguez entered his cell and assaulted Tyree for roughly 20 minutes as he begged for mercy.
On July 19, University of Cincinnati police officer Ray Tensing pulled over Samuel DuBose for driving without a front license plate. Although Tensing claimed he was almost killed by DuBose’s fleeing vehicle, the officer’s body cam video revealed that Tensing was not dragged by DuBose’s car and instead immediately fell backward after shooting the suspect in the head. On July 29, Tensing was fired from the department and charged with murder and voluntary manslaughter.

READ MORE: Multiple Children Come Forward Claiming Police Beat and Abused them at Leadership Camp

Charged with second-degree manslaughter on April 13, a 73-year-old reserve sheriff’s deputy was caught on body cam video accidentally shooting a restrained suspect in the back. Instead of deploying his Taser, Deputy Robert Bates claimed he mistakenly drew his gun and fired a single round into Eric Harris’ back. Bates immediately apologized as his fellow officers ignored Harris’ pleas for help while refusing to give him medical attention for his bullet wound.
At 9:33 a.m. on April 4, North Charleston Patrolman Michael Slager pulled over Walter “Lamar” Scott for driving with a broken brake light. After Scott fled on foot, a bystander named Feidin Santana recorded a cellphone video of Slager shooting the unarmed man in the back. Three days later, Slager was fired and arrested for murder.
Last January, Detective Keith Sandy and SWAT Officer Dominique Perez of the Albuquerque Police Department were charged with second-degree murder for killing a mentally ill homeless man. Video of the incident revealed James Boyd had been complying with officers when police suddenly deployed a flashbang grenade moments before shooting him to death. Two hours before the shooting, a state police officer’s dashcam video recorded Det. Sandy referring to Boyd as a “lunatic” and telling Officer Chris Ware, “I’m going to shoot him in the penis with a shotgun here in a second.”
The list of cops facing criminal charges also includes NYPD officer Peter Liang, who claimed he accidentally shot Akai Gurley while opening a door with the same hand holding his firearm. Responding to a call about a shoplifting suspect, Portsmouth police officer Stephen Rankin shot unarmed 18-year-old William Chapman in a Walmart parking lot. Bolivar County sheriff’s deputy Walter Grant shot 20-year-old Willie Lee Bingham in the back of the head because he mistakenly thought Bingham had a gun.

READ MORE: Cop Pleads Not Guilty After Shocking Video Shows Him Kill an Unarmed Veteran in Cold Blood

Although these officers still face criminal charges, the only officer acquitted of all counts in 2015 was Hummelstown police officer Lisa Mearkle. After shooting David Kassick with her Taser, Mearkle fired two rounds into the unarmed man’s back because she momentarily could not see one of his hands as he writhed face down on the ground in pain. Mistrials were declared for the police shooting of Yvette Smith, who police falsely accused of holding a weapon, and in the first of six trials against the officers responsible for killing Freddie Gray.
According to the Officer Down Memorial Page, more officers were killed in the line of duty in 2014 than last year. At least 133 cops died on-duty in 2014, while 129 were killed last year. As the number of officer fatalities decreases, the number of people being killed by police continues to drastically rise along with the rate of cops facing criminal charges for murder or manslaughter.
Although more officers will supposedly be held accountable for their crimes in 2016, the only number that matters from last year is the amount of cops convicted of murder or manslaughter: zero.”

Brian

[Fellow Aspirant]

Dear Helene and Bruno

Re: "Talking about "numbers" am I the only one who would like to be a little fly on the wall during the determination meetings for accepting players? Black males are 7% of the population, how is it they get to dominate so much of sports? Is it really fair after decades of 'equality' ratios and affirmative action that a group goes from having no presence to domination of presence? Discrimination was wrong and had to be corrected but this country always has to go waaay past that and create more imbalance and inequity."


Well LOL! Thanks for the comic relief, my friends! Seriously, just when I thought this thread was getting too heavy with cultural philosophy, you come along and brighten things up. Thanks so much. :sun:

You realize, of course, that the professional sports folks are hired on their merit, right? It's how the good old American capitalist system works: the owners buy up the contracts of the best of the best - at least as good as they can afford - and then watch from the boxes waaaaaay up there as their champions cover them in glory (or not). Just like it's always been, right back to the days of the Roman coliseum.

Once again, thanks for the yuck. :bigsmile:

B.

[turiya]

Well now, you can certainly call Colin Kaepernick for now showing his true colors - for being who / what he really is - Yes, a "Paid Patriot".


THANK YOU KAEPERNICK!
(Oct 8, 2017)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnzk9dN8qK4


http://www.vladtv.com/images/size_fs/video_image-469003.jpg