Billy Meier - The Ultimate truth?

Billy Meier has divided researchers for years. This is because, for the doubter, there is an awful lot of data very hard to dismiss, and for the believer, a lot that of red flags very hard to ignore...

If you're unfamiliar with the case, Meier, now in his 70's is a simple man of small means - and limited, he lost one arm in a bus crash in the 1960's. A farmer by trade, he holds forth in the beautiful foothills of the Swiss Alps. Over the course of many years now he has unravelled a fascinating and controversial tale... that he is a reincarnation of a series of ancient prophets, including Elijah, Isaiah, and Jeremiah (I think even Jesus and Mohammed have been mentioned also), and he claims to have some very important messages for Humanity.

(for more detailed information on his case history check out Cidersomerset's thread here: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...3-2-2009<br />)

Meier, he says, has experienced sightings and received telepathic messages ever since he was a child. But from 1975 through to '78 he underwent a series of actual physical face-to-face contacts with a group of extra-terrestrials from the Pleiades star cluster, some 450 Light Years from Earth. He has supplied reams of material detailing his contact experiences, as well as some of the most stunning photographs and home movie footage of flying saucers ever seen...

Attachment 18168
Attachment 18169

For a long while they bore up to close scientific analysis and scrutiny. Understand that this was the 1970's and 80's, long before any kind of digital manipulation was possible. It stunned (stumped) the experts. Were these actually real? Quite possibly. But, lurking among them are some pretty blatant hoaxes...

Below are two such images which came to light a while back. The top one, his so-called ET visitor space-babes, named Semjase and Askut respectively. Below it, two quite human dancers/singers performing in an old Dean Martin TV special in the early 70's... See what I mean?

Attachment 18170

Attachment 18171


Pics of actual real-life dinosaurs which he took on an alleged jaunt to the late Cretaceous turned out to be... from a picture-book. See comparison below:

Attachment 18172

This photograph is in fact an illustration by Zdenek Burian, from a book called Life Before Man published in 1972.

And there is the infamous 'Wedding cake' UFO. A more obvious model flying saucer there has never been...

But due to all these blatant flaws can we dismiss Meier outright, especially when you consider his claims that these 'anomalies' were due to outside manipulation designed to discredit him?

Brilliant evidence, mixed with dreadful deception... This is in fact the hardest element to explain. How can we possibly resolve the issue, and determine what the actual reality is?

What happened to Meier in January 1975, continuing thereafter for some years? What is going on? These are some possible scenarios as I see them:

Theories:
1.
The contacts happened exactly as Meier has stated. Real contact with real 'Plejaren' ETs. The discrepancies that we note were brought about by outside interference - by so-called friends, supporters, the media, and the numerous hangers-on all jostling for their piece of the pie. It was these external agencies that served, eventually, to cast a shadow of doubt on his integrity. Yet... Some of the photos he has produced are certainly fake. Why did he risk producing falsifications? Was he pressed to do this by some party or other as a means to 'prove the unprovable'? Were perhaps government/intelligence types involved with this in an attempt to discredit him?

2.
Meier was once, maybe, a candidate for ET contact. Telepathic contact in his early life, sightings in India etc. Perhaps even a 3rd kind close encounter. However that was all. But enlarging these events, embellishing and prolonging them to provide yet more and more sensational information for his followers to lap up, and to thus perpetuate the myth, can account for many of his careless mistakes.

Much of his 'spiritual' information (perhaps researched from elsewhere - or 'inserted' by government manipulators) is quite poor, even primitive by our own limited human understanding (in reference to New Age spiritual philosophy). For example, Meier's Pleiadians claim that Mediumship is a false art, that the after-life is less a glorious, heavenly realm of spirits and more an inert plane of confused disembodied souls, and there was no real purpose in even attempting to communicate with them... (for me personally I hear an alarm right there).

3.
As above, there are many highly questionable claims in the Pleiadian account of things. Perhaps they were real, and all that Meier experienced happened as he said it happened, but his Pleiadians contrived to supply him with a few nuggets of disinformation. Why? Spiralling into left field here, were they not Pleiadian/Human ETs at all but reptilians in disguise? or Nazis from the south pole (they spoke perfect German after all) lol, Yahweh/Giza intelligence or something as equally esoteric, or just government operatives posing as extra-terrestrials (a kind of staged contact scenario that they could control with the purpose of disseminating spurious information)?

4.
Meier faked everything. All his contact notes were fiction. Every photograph and home movie was fake. But ask yourself: why? He seemed to be a man who shied away from media exposure, so 'fame' didn't seem to be his motivation, or money. There doesn’t seem to be a solid answer for this question.

Now ask yourself how? How might a one-armed man of limited means pull this off? Some pictures cannot be so easily explained, they are still pretty convincing today. Researchers have provided some almost perfect duplicate results in their attempt to prove fakery, however they should pause to more carefully consider the equipment available to them, the expense and technical know-how involved, and the fact that it is now the 21st century: they were not a peasant farmer with one arm living in the 70's. So was Meier helped? Was he just an actor in a program with a higher agenda? If so, by whom?

How did he come by the advanced technical and scientific knowledge if, as far as we know, he really is just a farmer with a limited academic education?

Conclusions
Whatever the case here it is a hell of a riddle to untangle. I first read about Meier in the 80's with Gary Kinder's book 'Light Years'. It was heavily partisan, of course, in conveying the contacts as real events. Many of the discrepancies that we know of now were yet to come light at that time.

There have been as many pro-Meier supporters over the years as critics. When you have Ufological heavyweights such as Wendell Stevens on one side and Timothy Good on the other, what are you to make of it? How can you reach a sound conclusion one way or the other?

Through my own rational, long-honed filters of perception and analysis I have attempted to sift the truth and fiction very carefully, in all cases, claims, and stories I come across, and I have not yet reached a unified theory of truth for Meier (and certain other contactee cases for that matter). I have seen some outstanding names in the field stand up and declare Meier the real deal, and others claim wholeheartedly he's a charlatan. The CIA supposedly investigated him thoroughly in the 70's it is said, and asserted it was all a hoax. Can we be sure that that was so? His 'supporters', who over the years seem to have hijacked Meier and his story, may have an agenda of their own; that there is something else going on behind the curtain.

Bottom line: I do not know anything for sure. I have my deep suspicions, beliefs even, that Meier was indeed a fraud. If so, it still leaves many, many questions. Such as 'how the hell did he do it', and why?

I'd really like to hear from Bill on this. An excellent, discerning investigator such as he is must have some sound insights into this case. I don't know Bill if you've ever closely scrutinized Meier, but I would say it would be a mistake for anyone to disregard him merely for the sake of a few dodgy photographs: For, if it is all true why are there dodgy photographs? And, if it is all fake why are there so much quality material that is as yet unexplained?

Nice to encounter along the pathway in life, that shares similar thoughts about this subject as well.

One observation which I have noticed is that once someone believes something, they become entrenched in that belief, and not matter how much evidence ( light) one tries to present to them, they will refuse to see it.

Similar to throwing light at a owl, the more light you throw at it, the less it sees.

https://is0.4sqi.net/userpix/PDZFUTASH1R5KTWY.jpg

I too was once a Billy Meiers fan, but now I see.

I believe the Billy Meier story. detailed information for over 30 years that covers everything, including coming events. 16,000 pages, hundreds of photos, and video, and group eye witnesses, and wendell stevens investigated it, micheal horn, J Randolph Winters, metal samples, sounds of the ships, Billy told of the coming of computers, credit cards, the assasination of popes, JFK, you name it. Now science is catching up with Billys information , check out theyfly.com.

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Posted by Vitalux

One observation which I have noticed is that once someone believes something, they become entrenched in that belief, and not matter how much evidence ( light) one tries to present to them, they will refuse to see it.

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Agreed Vitalux. One cannot allow the gaps in our knowledge to be filled wholly by personal desire. This is where wisdom falters for many.

And it is why I sit in the middle, observing and contemplating both sides of the fence. I cannot commit wholly to any one theory, or way of thinking, even if it completely resonates with my understanding, if there are quite flagrant incompatibilities therein. This is so with Meier, and is why for me the questions remain open-ended.

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Posted by ghostrider

I believe the Billy Meier story. detailed information for over 30 years that covers everything, including coming events. 16,000 pages, hundreds of photos, and video, and group eye witnesses, and wendell stevens investigated it, micheal horn, J Randolph Winters, metal samples, sounds of the ships, Billy told of the coming of computers, credit cards, the assasination of popes, JFK, you name it. Now science is catching up with Billys information , check out theyfly.com.

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Indeed ghostrider, it is a massive and very compelling case-history. But why, if it is all real, do we still have these awkward irregularities of plainly faked materials? Who is behind them, how were they produced, and why? This is the key question in this topic.

Thanks Star Mariner for keeping this thread sperate as such , though there is obviously a cross over. I have seen a lot of the debunking vids and like any aspect
of this area anything is possible.....

This is a debate between Kal Korff one of the most ardent Meier debunkers and Jim Delittoso photo anaylyst from1996.....

This sums up the two camps quite well imo...At the end of the debate they said they were
going to have a follow up, but i cannot find it if they did....

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=hOsvzC55HbM

The last post i put up of Jim on my thread is well worth watching
because it shows Jim is a proffesional analyst....Cheers Steve...

i get the impression certain partys have tried to make billy look like a liar but i think the story itself was REAL but after so many years it has been plauged with dis info

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Posted by Mutchie

i get the impression certain partys have tried to make billy look like a liar but i think the story itself was REAL but after so many years it has been plauged with dis info

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Bingo! We have our winner! Some questions to ponder. Do you think some highly advanced spiritual extraterrestials would actually leave evidence behind just to prove to some non-spiritual earth humans that they are real? Do you think they would know what non-spiritual earth humans might do if they got their hands on some very useful but also very,very destructive technology? They,non-spiritual humans, might use the technology to make bombs that killed thousands upon thousands of people to be able to control the world and such. Does this not sound like the NWO?.......I've read a lot of the Billy Meier material especially the eye opening Talmud of Jmmanuel and I believe Billy Meier was/is the real deal. Read the Tamud of Jmmanuel and decide for yourself........
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Thanks for the vid Cider, I'll take a look at that later, and dig around to see if there's a follow up available.

Mutchie and truth4me, yeh that analysis is definitely a top candidate, which is why i highlighted it as Scenario 1. above. But I still have grave doubts, because of Meier's totally unsatisfactory explanations for the photograph anomalies.

#1: The image of Semjase and Askut was, he defends, covertly replaced by the CIA with two performers from the Dean Martin show. But the connection to that TV show didn't arise for years, so why, in the very beginning, didn't Meier take one look at that picture after he had it developed and say 'hey, this has been falsified, this is NOT Semjase and Asket at all.' The picture sat in his archive all that time as far as I'm aware (the image and that contact dating to 1975), and he never claimed it was anything but authentic.

#2: His defence of the Wedding cake photo (see below) is also ridiculous.

Attachment 18173

The UFO is clearly propped up on some sort of table or platform. It is basically a dustbin lid covered with Christmas baubles... The base consists of one Harcostar Universal Container Lid, undeniably. He was confronted with this evidence some years back, and I shall quote here what he relayed, received from Ptaah, one of his ET contacts:

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Excerpt of the 254th Contact Report from Tuesday, November 28, 1995:

Ptaah: "As far back as the 1920s we worked with flying devices you have named the 'Wedding Cake Ship,' but they were only available for operations on Earth toward the end of the 1970s. This particular type of flying device was designed specifically for the Earth, and for this reason we endeavored to transmit all of the necessary data regarding the vehicles' shape to terrestrial scientists, in the form of telepathic impulses, to assist them in developing flying disks on Earth.

The telepathic impulses were primarily directed to space travel technologists, as I shall call these individuals. This scientific group consisted mainly of German engineers, to whom we transmitted precise plans for the shape of the hull, along with some technical details we considered justifiable. These German scientists actually built experimental units using the plans that eventually led to the construction of somewhat workable flying disks. In accordance with our motives at that time, these disks were to be used to establish an air force that would be instrumental in achieving an early and worldwide peace. Political machinations, however, changed all of this very quickly into a war effort, which prompted us to discontinue the transmission of any further telepathic impulses to the German scientists. Moreover, these developments forced us to drop the project completely shortly after we intentionally transmitted some misinformation, which would render these flying disks ineffectual for war purposes.

Some copies of the blueprints somehow survived since we were unable to retrieve every one of them. This presented no problem, however, since the remaining blueprints were extremely incomplete when they vanished. This last remnant consisted essentially only of drawings which merely depicted the outer rim and undercarriage of the flying object. Details of the lower half and the upper structure were no longer included. And it is precisely this outer rim with its undercarriage that survived on drawings over the past several decades—only to reappear around 1965.

This reappearance occurred without our knowledge, for we had long lost interest in what had become useless drawings as far as we were concerned. Until now that is. You informed Florena that some of you realized this shape of large container lids exist, which indeed look exactly like the lower rim and underside of our flying objects and had a more than fleeting resemblance to the same structural features. And since you yourself provided one of these covers to clarify the fact, it was very simple for us to compare the receptacle cover with construction details of the flying device.

We, too, noticed the stunning similarity and began focusing our attention on this matter. We thoroughly investigated the entire situation and discovered that the old, newly re-emerged drawings were used for the design and production of these receptacle covers. The covers were completely different from anything the designers had previously produced. Normally they designed lids with simple lines and never with shapes that could be called futuristic and complicated. This, then, is how the shape of the container covers came about, which, as I mentioned earlier, strikingly resemble the lower rim section and undercarriage on our flying devices.

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Excerpt from: http://www.billymeierufocase.com/wcu...uction.html#a5

Now for me such an absurd explanation is highly damning. I think it utterly implausible that a bin lid can be linked to spacecraft blueprints telepathically transmitted from an extra-terrestrial civilization. How on earth can Meier himself seriously stand by such a claim and retain his integrity..?

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Posted by truth4me

Bingo! We have our winner! Some questions to ponder. Do you think some highly advanced spiritual extraterrestials would actually leave evidence behind just to prove to some non-spiritual earth humans that they are real?

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That is a very interesting question, which leads to another question.....:confused:

Did the Pleiadian's steal Billy Meier's garbage can lids and cake pans to create their flying saucers :ufo:
or did Billy Meiers steal the Pleiadian's flying saucers to make his garbage can lids and cake pans? :noidea:

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q...rnavealca1.jpg

http://forgetomori.com/wp-content/up...a_PL_Scale.jpg

the ptb do everything to discredit the story, they can't stop the truth about the earth and the 1.7 million plantets with sentient life in our galaxy. We are visited all the time by ships shielded with energy screens , you only see them if they allow it. The public attacks against Billy keep in secluded in the mountains, six or seven attempts to kill him , and the some of the members of his group are jealous of his contact with asket, and semjase. A better way to live awaits us, our doubt holds us back, way too many predictions that happened just as Billy was told , for this to be a hoax, you can fake a picture but not world events for over twenty years. Billy talks with patah about the japan nuke plant , gulf oil spill , they still communicate to this day. Read some of the predictions made in the early seventies and then read the events that happened just as foretold, twenty years later he was right. Dark energy, the war in Irag, president bush, the list is so massive , the pleadians are real, they exsist, 343 different colors of human form in the universe, the sinking of atlantis, mu, the building of the pyramids, the age of the moon, the three original tribes of earth, I mean it is massive amounts of everything , before computers , before photoshop, before cell phones. The time capsule found in India and returned to asket through the great barrier connecting the universe with the dal universe, go through the 158 contact notes and learn what they know and what actually happened, messing with a photo is small compaired to the mountains of information told long before it was in books or on tv, or in photos. the message they bring is the important thing, Love , peace, meditation, responsibilty to self and earth , creation , living pure, not allowing technology to destroy the earth, as it affects our neighbors and our star and our galaxy.... A one armed man in the mountains of switzerland living on 600 dollars a month, could not be a master of digital editing, geology, math, astronomy, sound engineering, photoshop, model making, archeology, science, video production, human genetics, guru/spirituality, earth history, galaxy history, future telling, and 30 other disciplines , the ptb will credit him with that instead of , he is telling the truth. Why is it so hard to believe other forms of life exist and they speak to humans and are much older and wiser than us ? all the lights in the sky at night , billions of stars billions of planets, and we're all under mass delusions ? Look at the list of known contactees, Alex collier who Billy says by the way the andromedians are over the pleadians , thats who the pleadians consult before they take action reguarding earth, Travis Walton, the footprints are there, Bob Lazar working on other world craft, Henry Deacon, Dan burish, why the hubub to say billy is a hoax ? 30 years of contact with ET's, once or twice a week at times, think about that , 30 years worth. All I can say is go through the contact notes it just might change your life and perceptions.

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Posted by Vitalux

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Posted by truth4me

Bingo! We have our winner! Some questions to ponder. Do you think some highly advanced spiritual extraterrestials would actually leave evidence behind just to prove to some non-spiritual earth humans that they are real?

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That is a very interesting question, which leads to another question.....:confused:

Did the Pleiadian's steal Billy Meier's garbage can lids and cake pans to create their flying saucers :ufo:
or did Billy Meiers steal the Pleiadian's flying saucers to make his garbage can lids and cake pans? :noidea:

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q...rnavealca1.jpg

http://forgetomori.com/wp-content/up...a_PL_Scale.jpg

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Let me ask you this. After reading through the Meier material and which there is loads of information don't you think Meier knew that people would think its a garbage can lid? Seriously here ,as much stuff is out there don't you think Meier knew it would be caught,the garbage can lid ? I mean he has wrote some deep thought provoking stuff yet makes a very amateurish junior high mistake with the garbage can lid? Why would he do it? here I provide 2 links yet as always you be the judge.

theyfly.com/newsflash/newsflash2.htm

theyfly.com/Asket_&_Nera.htm

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Posted by Mutchie

i get the impression certain partys have tried to make billy look like a liar but i think the story itself was REAL but after so many years it has been plauged with dis info

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Great post Mutchie:clap2:, You hit the nail on the head! :first:

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Posted by truth4me

Let me ask you this. After reading through the Meier material and which there is loads of information don't you think Meier knew that people would realize its a garbage can lid?

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That is a very good question and I have pondered that question too.
My final conclusion is , most would be so quick to believe it, with such a conviction, that it would not matter if later it was exposed.
Those in the "belief" circle would simply refuse to believe it.:fie:

Much the same way, as how all those naive souls here on the Earth still believe that two commercial airplanes knocked down the World trade Tower buildings.

If you study Billy Meier's own videos, and photos which he claims are authentic, you can see the garbage can lid and cake pans.
I bet you that even if the guy had signed a confession that he hoaxed it, you would refuse to believe it, and say someone must be spreading disinfo about him.

Sorry to say man, but in my opinion you are in denial due to your stronger conviction of wanting to believe in this illusion.

But then again, perhaps I could be totally wrong too.:noidea:

But then again, who gives a phuck, this whole thing is just a darn illusion ....just a darn amusement park.
As long as my rear end is not getting probed I don't care rather Billy is a Martian, a Pleiadian, or Mork from Ork.

Heck I can't even tell you who I am :noidea:

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Posted by Vitalux

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Posted by truth4me

Let me ask you this. After reading through the Meier material and which there is loads of information don't you think Meier knew that people would realize its a garbage can lid?

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That is a very good question and I have pondered that question too.
My final conclusion is , most would be so quick to believe it, with such a conviction, that it would not matter if later it was exposed.
Those in the "belief" circle would simply refuse to believe it.:fie:

Much the same way, as how all those naive souls here on the Earth still believe that two commercial airplanes knocked down the World trade Tower buildings.

If you study Billy Meier's own videos, and photos which he claims are authentic, you can see the garbage can lid and cake pans.
I bet you that even if the guy had signed a confession that he hoaxed it, you would refuse to believe it, and say someone must be spreading disinfo about him.

Sorry to say man, but in my opinion you are in denial due to your stronger conviction of wanting to believe in this illusion.

But then again, perhaps I could be totally wrong too.:noidea:

But then again, who gives a phuck, this whole thing is just a darn illusion ....just a darn amusement park.
As long as my rear end is not getting probed I don't care rather Billy is a Martian, a Pleiadian, or Mork from Ork.

Heck I can't even tell you who I am :noidea:

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Now you are speaking truth my friend. We all are seeking a higher truth so to speak and since I believe we all are spiritual beings from source we all get back,it might take a few million years or so, by traveling different roads. This life to you Meier's work is a hoax and I'm the believer the next life it could be turned around. Remember we all are one and always peace be with you....

Hi Avalon, i am mahesh, from india. I have been following & researching the meier case since 2007. My work has recently been shown in the newly released doc by Michael Horn-'As the Time Fulfills'.
Trailer: http://youtu.be/IVklYFQveCY
Purchase here: http://www.scubbly.com/item/76006/

I have done enough research into the meier case so as to come to a reasonable conclusion on it without letting it hang in the middle for long. In my opinion, the only way to come to a fair conclusion is by strictly following logic & evidence without making any fallacies. If we fail or miss to execute any of the above steps, we naturally land in a place that confirms to our opinions, wishes, desires,.etc which most likely cannot be a true conclusion.

Also, i think that many don't put any hypothesis forward and see whether it agrees with evidence. Even if they consider a hypothesis, they tend to 'ignore to change' their hypothesis in the light of evidence. So far my hypothesis agrees with the evidence & am satisfied with the conclusion i came to. I agree with the notion that the case is most likely not a hoax. And i am happy to share my findings with anyone who are interested.

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Posted by Star Mariner

Below are two such images which came to light a while back. The top one, his so-called ET visitor space-babes, named Semjase and Askut respectively. Below it, two quite human dancers/singers performing in an old Dean Martin TV special in the early 70's... See what I mean?

Attachment 18170

Attachment 18171

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They infact are allegedly Asket & Nera but not Asket and semjase.
(in my further posts, i would drop the word 'allegedly' or otherwise there would be many instances this word have to be used which might look clumsy here.)

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Posted by Star Mariner

Pics of actual real-life dinosaurs which he took on an alleged jaunt to the late Cretaceous turned out to be... from a picture-book. See comparison below:

Attachment 18172

This photograph is in fact an illustration by Zdenek Burian, from a book called Life Before Man published in 1972.

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There is no evidence that Billy or FIGU ever promoted that dinosaur photo as a genuine photo. Many photos from his great journey(1975) were immediately detected as faked or manipulated in 1975 only and were not included in the official photo album since then.
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I would like to present my views on the controversial part of the evidence which was discussed here like wcufo, asket/nera,..etc. If anyone is interested, please select any topic of yours and we will have a good discussion.

ultimate billy meier ufo footage take down.
this should do it...

https://youtube.com/watch?v=YxrCt...layer_embedded

Thanks for that Jimmer, it certainly clears up a number of questions about how a one-armed man might effectively achieve such excellent Ufo footage - the art of illusion via clever, but very simple setups.

If this really is how he pulled it off it seems incredible that after all the years of scrutiny from so many Ufologists and investigators that they never suspected (or tried to replicate) these methods

One of the few investigative opinions that really to me personally, are those of Tim Good. And he learned of the fraud taking place with Meier, and openly declared it as such, back in 1987. Kudos to Tim.

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Posted by mahigitam

They infact are allegedly Asket & Nera but not Asket and semjase.
(in my further posts, i would drop the word 'allegedly' or otherwise there would be many instances this word have to be used which might look clumsy here.)

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Ah yes a typo, my bad: Asket and Nera. But these images are clearly hoaxed. They don't just share a striking resemblance to the two Dean Martin singers, they are the two Dean Martin singers.

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I would like to present my views on the controversial part of the evidence which was discussed here like wcufo, asket/nera,..etc. If anyone is interested, please select any topic of yours and we will have a good discussion.

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Yeh sure, please do. I'm still open to discussing any aspect of the Meier case to truly get to the bottom of it all...

cheers

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Posted by truth4me

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Posted by Vitalux

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Posted by truth4me

Let me ask you this. After reading through the Meier material and which there is loads of information don't you think Meier knew that people would realize its a garbage can lid?

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That is a very good question and I have pondered that question too.
My final conclusion is , most would be so quick to believe it, with such a conviction, that it would not matter if later it was exposed.
Those in the "belief" circle would simply refuse to believe it.:fie:

Much the same way, as how all those naive souls here on the Earth still believe that two commercial airplanes knocked down the World trade Tower buildings.

If you study Billy Meier's own videos, and photos which he claims are authentic, you can see the garbage can lid and cake pans.
I bet you that even if the guy had signed a confession that he hoaxed it, you would refuse to believe it, and say someone must be spreading disinfo about him.

Sorry to say man, but in my opinion you are in denial due to your stronger conviction of wanting to believe in this illusion.

But then again, perhaps I could be totally wrong too.:noidea:

But then again, who gives a phuck, this whole thing is just a darn illusion ....just a darn amusement park.
As long as my rear end is not getting probed I don't care rather Billy is a Martian, a Pleiadian, or Mork from Ork.

Heck I can't even tell you who I am :noidea:

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Now you are speaking truth my friend. We all are seeking a higher truth so to speak and since I believe we all are spiritual beings from source we all get back,it might take a few million years or so, by traveling different roads. This life to you Meier's work is a hoax and I'm the believer the next life it could be turned around. Remember we all are one and always peace be with you....

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Posted by Vitalux

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Posted by truth4me

Let me ask you this. After reading through the Meier material and which there is loads of information don't you think Meier knew that people would realize its a garbage can lid?

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That is a very good question and I have pondered that question too.
My final conclusion is , most would be so quick to believe it, with such a conviction, that it would not matter if later it was exposed.
Those in the "belief" circle would simply refuse to believe it.:fie:

Much the same way, as how all those naive souls here on the Earth still believe that two commercial airplanes knocked down the World trade Tower buildings.

If you study Billy Meier's own videos, and photos which he claims are authentic, you can see the garbage can lid and cake pans.
I bet you that even if the guy had signed a confession that he hoaxed it, you would refuse to believe it, and say someone must be spreading disinfo about him.

Sorry to say man, but in my opinion you are in denial due to your stronger conviction of wanting to believe in this illusion.

But then again, perhaps I could be totally wrong too.:noidea:

But then again, who gives a phuck, this whole thing is just a darn illusion ....just a darn amusement park.
As long as my rear end is not getting probed I don't care rather Billy is a Martian, a Pleiadian, or Mork from Ork.

Heck I can't even tell you who I am :noidea:

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I totally agree with you about Billy most likely being a faker in fact in my mind he IS a faker, and at the end of the day it does not matter in the scheme of things....people will believe what they wish. He wrote a couple of books supposedly by the Pleiadians and they sounded just like a human religious zealot with very poor grammar who were very very judgemental and certainly very biased and with a feeling of superiority for we inferior humans. If Billy's books were inspired by Pleiadians, I certainly want no part of that race at all....He did not do them any justice that is for sure... Link for those who are interested: http://www.amazon.com/Talmud-Jmmanue...ud+of+jmmanuel

I am not going to get into it a lot, but I had the misfortune of meeting his American PR rep Mike Horn, and after having many disagreements with Mike, and after being lacerated by his ascerbic and hateful verbal lashings on a forum, I came to the conclusion that Billy was a total sham. The more his PR man talked about Billy, the more I realized that Mike was in it for MONEY, and that he was willing to plow down anyone who had the audacity to even voice an opinion that the whole Billy thing could possibly be a sham. If your were to speak with Mike like I did I think you would understand what I am speaking of, but he no longer seems to talk with much of anyone unless it is on a paid interview on a media. He unequivically states that no person on earth has EVER had any contact with any extraterrestrial other than Billy and anyone who claims that is a total liar. He says that no people have ever been abducted against their will and that the grays have never been anywhere near the earth. I know for a fact that the grays HAVE had contact with humans because I was an abductee...so right off the bat I realized my conversations with Mike Horn were going to get pretty heated, and so right I was..I engaged him because I wanted to know how he could possibly say such a thing and he got downright junkyard nasty with me and he ended up calling ME a liar on a public forum and then tried to invalidate any person who spoke up on the forum and disagreed or asked any questions at all....His behavior was very repugnant. Does that prove that Billy was a fake, no, but his PR man's claims in trying to defend Billy's veracity were nothing short of utter abusiveness and name calling and verbal defamation of character and written assault, and that does not help Billy's cause one iota. I am not trying to change anyone's mind about what they think, I know that is futile. We all have opinions and beliefs according to what resonates, I am just do not believe in Billy's whole story, not any of it....

To read some of his comments to mysef and others and the tone he takes, here is a link to those conversations...some may find them interesting...Not sure if you need to be a member to see the comments or not....

http://www.ashtarcommandcrew.net/for...o588s65&page=1

If you are unable to access by this link, just go to Ashtar Command Crew and under the Crew category tyoe in Michael Horn. I think by reading his conversations with people you will see how arrogant he is and how ridiculous his cliams are. But one must conclude for oneself what is their truth. My truth is that he is a fake. And it is not because I am a woman scorned" by Mike Horn, lol...

Thank you so much marique3652 for adding input to this discussion:high5:
Folks like you, that have key experiences in this topic are crucial to the evolution of thought here in Avalon.

The following is an exerpt from the following book ; Adventures beyond the body
How to experience out of body travel
by : William Buhlman

Quote:

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We are all creatures of habit. We repeat
the same familiar thoughts and actions because they are familiar, unchallenging,
and considered safe. We simply follow our individual path of least resistance. For
many of us, our tendency to remain the same has become a central element of our
personal habits and our life. Many of us consider change—any change—a negative
experience. It is clouded with suspicion and treated as a threat to our established
thought patterns and beliefs. The end result is often a continuation of our personal
habit of inaction. We must eventually ask ourselves whether we are completely
content to live our entire life following the same habits of thought and action. Are
you content to accept blindly, without verification, the prevailing ideas and
convictions of your society? Are you truly satisfied to settle for beliefs, hope, and
faith instead of personal experience and knowledge?

---

The significance of this above statement is how we often become static and complacent in our beliefs. That even when those beliefs are rendered false, we still cling to our old beliefs and remain resistant to change.

If we are trying to become more aware, one of the very first things we have to face, is we are going to change our current beliefs as new information comes to light.

Marique3652, you have clearly demonstrated that there are so many holes in the Billy Meier story, that if it were a ship, it would be sitting on the ocean floor.
However, many of it's ghosts are still unwilling to jump ship.

http://www.3drivers.com/upload/ibloc...ip_up-c-01.jpg


Like I said earlier, even if Billy Meiers were to stand up and proclaim it was all a huge hoax, the believers, would simply refuse to listen to him, and rationalize that he must be lying that he was lying.:ohwell:

Much in the same way, as they proclaim that anyone who produces evidence to corroborate the hoax, are agents of disinformation. :ohwell:

Thanks marique, that's an interesting story.

Quite without his pictures and footage, one of the first things that made me sit up and engage in serious doubts regarding the Meier story was the descriptions and belief systems of the Pleiadians themselves. Spiritually, metaphysically, their view of the world and the universe was if anything less developed than our own (at least as far as I understand them to be). That Meier was allegedly the only contactee in the world was another alarm bell, something I knew was not true. That there are not Greys abducting people? Lol. You are not alone my friend... I have seen them in the flesh. So that is another blatant lie.

And that link you provide above.., Ashtarcommand? Oh dear oh dear. Seriously? Advocates of Meier are involved with them?

For me this Mike Horn is either sadly misguided or is solely intent on the gung-ho propagation and marketing of the Meier material (true or not) as purely a business – as a promoter – to make a buck. Which is sad.

If an advanced extra-terrestrial race had truly contacted Meier to bestow his awareness with truth, love and spiritually pure understanding, he would first and foremost do everything he could to protect it, to disseminate it himself and in his own way, so that the reins would never fall into the controlling hands of a materialistic, paper-waving, PR buffoon like Horn, or anyone else of his ilk.

Thanks again for the input. The case against Meier is beginning to weigh up quite severely...