WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

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Posted by Mashika

Oof

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It may have been programmed to gently land, but clearly the programe failed.

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I suggest you learn a bit about what the speed required by a rocket to reach a far away place causes even after the fuel runs out, and how it affects the landing. Even if empty of fuel and with no warhead, there is a big explosion. If you want to learn about it or not that's up to you. If this is another "research" project that will never happen on your side, then so be it... 'the land is unchanged' either you do or not


~~


From your post i can only get two things, mostly :P

1. Copium is one hell of a drug. Once you get into it, there's no coming back, now you don't even need a drug government dealer to push you into it, you find your own way to it. It seems like everyone hooked on Copium has no path of recovery, they are left lose to create their own demise. Facts? Who cares, i'll invent my own facts!

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Posted by Fellow Aspirant

It may have been programmed to gently land, but clearly the programe failed.

Maybe the Russian stock of cruise missiles has run out to the point where they are using their high end nuclear stuff without the extreme warheads. (?)

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2. So i suppose Elensky and the UkroNazi government are all:

a. Liars
b. Corrupt
c. Scammers
d. Full of It
e. All of the above

Because they immediately claimed it could take a year or more to fix the transformers issue! I suppose they will embezzle all the money sent by you and 'the western partners' and then buy something cheap on alibaba and hope it gets blown up again next week so they don't have to prove they bought some cheap hardware that wasn't going to last for a couple months anyway because it was a cheap produced one :)

Let's add f to the list

f: Genius scammers taking advantage of naive western adults who have the mentality of toddlers who failed kindergarten first grade

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Re the transformers -

A dearth of 330 kw transformers? There are plenty of such advertised online, ready for immediate delivery. A quick search yields …

Made in China, listed on Alibaba

https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/330...ansformer.html

India
https://www.indiamart.com/proddetail...049225648.html

Canada
https://www.3l2r.com/ecommerce/trans...ASAAEgIm3fD_Bw

and lots of good prices on those that are reconditioned, from the states …
https://t-r.com/cart.php#!c=a&l=1

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Getting them to where they are needed is indeed a problem, though.

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Why would that be? With all the most fantastic support from the west, capable enough to leave their own citizens in the cold just to support Ukraine, you would think they have some planes or other means to deliver, i mean they deliver tanks and rockets and AD units every other week, what makes a transformer harder to deliver than a 50 tons tank or howitzer? Imagination or excuses?

Or is it that only arms that deliver money back to the 'western partners' have priority over things that are not good for the western military complex business, like a transformer would? Last time i checked the military complex doesn't build or sell transformers, so of course it is not on the menu for "aid" to Ukraine lol

Oh how much i hurt for the growing pains of western adults

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Hi Mashika

As Bill has and others have so clearly pointed out, the time line of one year to replace the Ukrainian transformers is valid; it may even be optimistically short. Given this, your castigation of Zalenskyy is both wrong and overwrought.

So your number one take is invalid. Still, I'm glad that you found at least one of the things in my post that you wanted to lick.


Also

Apparently you missed the post that I was replying to, so here you are ...

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1528230

in which the relevant part is this (in bold text)

RUSSIA FIRED A GENUINE NUCLEAR CRUISE MISSILE INTO UKRAINE

It was carrying a mock up of a real nuclear warhead and was recovered by Ukranian forces. if that is not a shot across the bow I don't know what is, Russia could not have sent a clearer message. Rumor has it that Ukraine shot it down but I suspect it was programmed to gently land where they would see it to make sure the message was delivered.

In effect, you were agreeing with me (no need to apologize :bigsmile:) The laws of physics are immutable (so far :highfive:)

If you like, you can offer to educate Jim and Win Ru though, with one of your low key responses.

If only Elon Musk could program his rockets to land gently ... wait ... never mind ... :facepalm:


And my name's not "oof".

It was my given name ( I come from good Ukrainian stock but how did you know?) I subsequently had it changed when I got into shape. :bigsmile:

Brian

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Posted by Fellow Aspirant

I suspect it was programmed to gently land where they would see it to make sure the message was delivered.

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Cruise missiles don't (and can't!) 'gently land'.

SpaceX boosters 'gently land'. Not military missiles.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Tkk9VIKWw2w

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Posted by Fellow Aspirant

a few days after Russia’s full-scale invasion into Ukraine

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Except it's not. Instead, it is about a 1% commitment, maybe 3%, not using their entire arsenal.

Suggest that "Ukrinfo", "Washington Post", etc., are not things we should read, and anything from England or Australia is probably even worse.

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Posted by Bill Ryan

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Posted by Ravenlocke

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2022/1...ights-off.html
[...]
The targeting of 330 kilovolt transformers in various switching stations has cut some 50% of the distribution capability of Ukraine's electricity network. These transformers weigh up to 200 tons. There are no replacements. You do not buy them at the next corner but will have order them with years of lead time. As far as I can tell Russia is currently Russia the only producer of transformers of that type.

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Yes, that's correct. (As best I know China makes them too, also with a couple of years of lead time.)

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Posted by Fellow Aspirant

A dearth of 330 kw transformers? There are plenty of such advertised online, ready for immediate delivery. A quick search yields …

Made in China, listed on Alibaba
https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/330...ansformer.html

India
https://www.indiamart.com/proddetail...049225648.html

Canada
https://www.3l2r.com/ecommerce/trans...ASAAEgIm3fD_Bw

and lots of good prices on those that are reconditioned, from the states …
https://t-r.com/cart.php#!c=a&l=1

Getting them to where they are needed is indeed a problem, though.

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Brian, you're getting your watts, volts and amps all mixed up. A 330 kV transformer (330,000 volts) at 15 amps (but maybe the current is a lot more than that) would be 4,950,000 watts.

This isn't the kind of thing you order on Amazon (or Alibaba!) and pay a little extra for 2-day shipping. :)

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Bill, I'm hoping that the wee smiling emoticon at the end indicates that you have said this as a joke. You can't really believe that I'm that stupid. :confused:

B

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Posted by Mashika

See? It's pure BS, no investigation has happened at all, so these 'credible claims' are pure BS. There has been no real evidence provided, and the claim that Russia doesn't allow the UN to go into Donbass is also pure BS, they had been there and were able to do anything they wanted for years, and they did nothing. No one is stopping them from going, it's actually Ukraine who for example forbade the Red Cross from going into Donbass, and there's is plenty of evidence that the UN helped the Azov and other groups instead of doing their work to document the crimes committed by Ukraine over the past 9 years

If the people move to other countries in the middle east or any other place, they are refugees, including the kids sent over to the UK that are sexually abused or vanish forever. If they go to Russia, they are filtrated and it's genocide

I don't know why you are not bothered that these people are playing with your mind and plainly lying to you, without any shame. Doesn't that bother you at all?

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Yes, Mashika, that is the question to ask. But I fear – or do I fear? – the answer is “No”.

The answer might even be: “No, because I want to give them the impression that I allow them to play with my mind because that is what I am expected to do.”

In the middle of the 90s one of my clients, higher-level management in a Belgian multinational, told me: “it suits me that I can pay those bastards" (he meant the Belgian army “to do that s..t in my place while I can lay back on my couch.” That was ±1995.

A variation of this I heard from a top-level consultant about 9/11: “I believe that 19 Arabs armed with pocket-knives...” (etc.): that was 2003, and another one about the “vaccines”: “as a German citizen I do what my government asks me to do": that was last year.

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Posted by Fellow Aspirant

Quote:

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Posted by Mashika

Oof

Quote:

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It may have been programmed to gently land, but clearly the programe failed.

---

I suggest you learn a bit about what the speed required by a rocket to reach a far away place causes even after the fuel runs out, and how it affects the landing. Even if empty of fuel and with no warhead, there is a big explosion. If you want to learn about it or not that's up to you. If this is another "research" project that will never happen on your side, then so be it... 'the land is unchanged' either you do or not


~~


From your post i can only get two things, mostly :P

1. Copium is one hell of a drug. Once you get into it, there's no coming back, now you don't even need a drug government dealer to push you into it, you find your own way to it. It seems like everyone hooked on Copium has no path of recovery, they are left lose to create their own demise. Facts? Who cares, i'll invent my own facts!

Quote:

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Posted by Fellow Aspirant

It may have been programmed to gently land, but clearly the programe failed.

Maybe the Russian stock of cruise missiles has run out to the point where they are using their high end nuclear stuff without the extreme warheads. (?)

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2. So i suppose Elensky and the UkroNazi government are all:

a. Liars
b. Corrupt
c. Scammers
d. Full of It
e. All of the above

Because they immediately claimed it could take a year or more to fix the transformers issue! I suppose they will embezzle all the money sent by you and 'the western partners' and then buy something cheap on alibaba and hope it gets blown up again next week so they don't have to prove they bought some cheap hardware that wasn't going to last for a couple months anyway because it was a cheap produced one :)

Let's add f to the list

f: Genius scammers taking advantage of naive western adults who have the mentality of toddlers who failed kindergarten first grade

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Re the transformers -

A dearth of 330 kw transformers? There are plenty of such advertised online, ready for immediate delivery. A quick search yields …

Made in China, listed on Alibaba

https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/330...ansformer.html

India
https://www.indiamart.com/proddetail...049225648.html

Canada
https://www.3l2r.com/ecommerce/trans...ASAAEgIm3fD_Bw

and lots of good prices on those that are reconditioned, from the states …
https://t-r.com/cart.php#!c=a&l=1

---

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Getting them to where they are needed is indeed a problem, though.

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Why would that be? With all the most fantastic support from the west, capable enough to leave their own citizens in the cold just to support Ukraine, you would think they have some planes or other means to deliver, i mean they deliver tanks and rockets and AD units every other week, what makes a transformer harder to deliver than a 50 tons tank or howitzer? Imagination or excuses?

Or is it that only arms that deliver money back to the 'western partners' have priority over things that are not good for the western military complex business, like a transformer would? Last time i checked the military complex doesn't build or sell transformers, so of course it is not on the menu for "aid" to Ukraine lol

Oh how much i hurt for the growing pains of western adults

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Hi Mashika

As Bill has and others have so clearly pointed out, the time line of one year to replace the Ukrainian transformers is valid; it may even be optimistically short. Given this, your castigation of Zalenskyy is both wrong and overwrought.

So your number one take is invalid. Still, I'm glad that you found at least one of the things in my post that you wanted to lick.


Also

Apparently you missed the post that I was replying to, so here you are ...

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1528230

in which the relevant part is this (in bold text)

RUSSIA FIRED A GENUINE NUCLEAR CRUISE MISSILE INTO UKRAINE

It was carrying a mock up of a real nuclear warhead and was recovered by Ukranian forces. if that is not a shot across the bow I don't know what is, Russia could not have sent a clearer message. Rumor has it that Ukraine shot it down but I suspect it was programmed to gently land where they would see it to make sure the message was delivered.

In effect, you were agreeing with me (no need to apologize :bigsmile:) The laws of physics are immutable (so far :highfive:)

If you like, you can offer to educate Jim and Win Ru though, with one of your low key responses.

If only Elon Musk could program his rockets to land gently ... wait ... never mind ... :facepalm:


And my name's not "oof".

It was my given name ( I come from good Ukrainian stock but how did you know?) I subsequently had it changed when I got into shape. :bigsmile:

Brian

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Honestly, i could not care less how long Elensky will take to get some new Transformers, or why is that important. The entire tech they are using is old soviet tech for the most part, and the Ukrainians are well know for not being able to build anything new since 30 years ago, everything they have is old soviet stuff that remained unchanged across 3 decades, so they have themselves to blame for being unable to quickly replace their units.

But talking about that stuff at this point is like saying "Wait why are around 20,000 people death in Donbass? And how did they died in the past 9 years before the military operation of 24 February started? Who were these people and who killed them?"

And then the response to those questions is "Yeah that's interesting, but let's talk about the weather, and food prices are very high right now!"

It's like a very very uninteresting and weak diversion tactic. In a debate that just doesn't cut it

The nuclear missile thing is equally weak argument to divert the conversation, "they probably have to use nuclear missiles with dummy warheads because they are running out of other missiles" is not a real argument based on hard facts or anything at all. It's just another diversion tactic that still doesn't work

It can be simply dismissed by observing the facts on the ground: "If the Russian army were using nuclear missiles in that way, they you would see lots of them all over the place and there would be plenty of evidence that 40/50 or more nuclear missiles were used in that way"

But there is zero evidence of that, so making a baseless claim and then trying to discuss it? that's just like discussing what kind of cheese the moon is made off, and divert from discussing if the moon is made or is not made out of cheese

So yeah, discussing a reality based on nothing but wishful thinking or twisted baseless observations is not a good way to spend time. Unless that's your purpose in the first place, to divert and derail from discussing more important matters and focus on menial details. Just a waste of time in the end

Oof is a sound made when you see something so wrong that you just go completely out of air and words, like when someone hits you very hard on the stomach and all the air goes out and you make that sound "oof", just because

Mashika: "Ukraine shelled a nuclear power plant and almost caused the death of millions of people"

Oof: Yeah, I read that nothing happened and there was no radiation released so we don't need to discuss the shelling and war crime by Ukraine anymore, that's water under the bridge. So... Do pigs have souls?

Mashika: "Really? You don't have any more thoughts on that than dismissing it as a nothingburger just because no people died this time? Oof...."

There are a few members who post stuff here, but they always avoid the actual matter and just divert into pointless arguments, isn't that a bit annoying and boring?

I mean like this, why skip over a lot of points and then just reply with plain media talking points to a single item of a 10 item post? And then the response is just basically a copy/paste of media talking points taken directly from some random website. Not even an effort to produce an actual thought?

It's slow, boring and it doesn't speak much of the person posting talking points. That's just lazy and clumsy

And it makes me think the person has nothing interesting to say of their own. It's a copy/paste machine only

What's a "real conversation" ? Skipping all the points made by someone and then replying to the most uninteresting one with a very lazy reply that is basically just repeating something someone else said on another site and which was already a lazy attempt to begin with?

I don't know, but that's just a completely turn off

+ Thousands of people died
- They probably died of something
+ No really? Who could have guessed!
- Also some were born in another place the same day
+ Yes but we want to discuss the people who died and why
- I heard that new born babies poop a lot and sleep all day
+ Here's some evidence the death people were murdered and did not die of natural causes
- Oh well, in the global scheme those are thousands but millions have died since humanity exists

And it keeps going forever. Sorry but that's just noise

And it is very clear and obvious when people do derailing and adding noise thing. Sometimes it is a bit amusing and entertaining, but it gets boring very soon. honestly

:sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep::noidea:

Here's something to ponder about

See this ship? Looks familiar?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ember_2013.jpg

That's the Ukraina, a sister ship to the Moscow that was gifted to Ukraine by Russia. But Ukraine, being able to build ships back in the USSR times, and having the shipyards and everything necessary to complete it, just simply took it, and then let it rot for decades

Around 30 million dollars were needed to finish it, that's nothing. And yet, there it sits rotting away, how can a country not be able to spend 30 million dollars on this?

Ukraine can't build anything

They live out of hand outs and expect to be given everything for free and ready to go. Anything that requires any effort is immediately put away or thrown to the curve

Ukraine as a country inherited lots of resources, shipyards, know-how about lots of stuff that were the primary resources of the USSR, and they completely did nothing with that for 30 years in a row. Except sell it out for cheap to western "partners". And they continue to sell the country in pieces for very cheap because they have no clue how to progress on their own

They turned what could have been the third richest country in the world into a beggar than requires monthly handouts and has no production of any kind other than grains, they can't build any new tech, they can't research, they can't restore any industries they had, they do nothing but expect handouts

Research topic: How many billions did Russia give to Ukraine through the past 3 decades and what happened to that money and aid? And second, How is it that Ukraine is in a lot of debt, when Russia paid it all 30 years ago and helped them start fresh with lots of resources and zero debt? Why did it took so little time to go from being a potential most richest country in Europe to a self-entitled rude/nasty beggar and decadent society?

Where's the space industry? The shipyards? The steel plants? The electronics/nuclear industries? Can Ukraine build nuclear power plants? No they can't, the ones they have are Soviet tech and they depended until very recently on Russia, but yet nuclear power was central in Ukraine, and they do have the know-how for sure

It's just that they just can't build anything, they went into full mediocre/lame mode and can't/won't even try to get out of it anymore.

They don't ask nicely, they demand handouts because they think they deserve them because they are "the master race"

Interesting analysis, 25 minutes:

Russia Continues Grinding Away Ukrainian Military & Electrical Power (Update for November 21, 2022)
(The New Atlas)

https://youtube.com/watch?v=h3LtmulODrI

In the following November 20 CBC report about the situation in "liberated" Kherson, mention is made that the city had been heavily mined. It doesn't specifically state 'by the Russians prior to retreating', but it is strongly implied. A UN agent on site is even reporting that they hear "mines being detonated all day long" in Kherson as part of the current demining operation.

"NATO secretary general says alliance must prepare for 'long haul' in Ukraine"
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/nat...aine-1.6658147


That is the first time I hear of reports alleging that Russians have been placing mines anywhere. Many Canadians (but not all) know by now that CBC is an incredibly biased propaganda machine, frequently lying by omission. But it is concerning that a UN agent is talking about mines being detonated all day long. What is going on?


Does anyone here have more information about this alleged 'demining operation in Kherson?

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Posted by Fellow Aspirant

Made in China, listed on Alibaba
https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/330...ansformer.html
[ ... ]
Bill, I'm hoping that the wee smiling emoticon at the end indicates that you have said this as a joke. You can't really believe that I'm that stupid. :confused:

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Brian, it was you who posted that these huge transformers could be bought over the internet via Alibaba (the Chinese equivalent of Amazon)!

https://twitter.com/SpriterInfo1/sta...56662624096256

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https://twitter.com/SpriterInfo1/sta...54021613092864

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https://twitter.com/SpriterInfo1/sta...60367092125697

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Posted by Rizotto

... November 20 CBC report...

"NATO secretary general says alliance must prepare for 'long haul' in Ukraine"
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/nat...aine-1.6658147


Many Canadians (but not all) know by now that CBC is an incredibly biased propaganda machine, frequently lying by omission.

Does anyone here have more information about this alleged 'demining operation in Kherson?

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Oh good lord, and you genuinely have my sympathy here - we suffer here in the UK too via the BBC.

Remember this from Jordan Peterson a while back?

"The legacy media are in an unrecoverable death spiral, spinning ever more uncontrollably. The CBC has become a mewling, meandering, self-righteous, slogan-spewing narcissistic near-corpse."

Source: https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/...807?lang=en-GB

Couldn't have said it better myself and the second sentence there should serve as a strapline :)

As for the mines: I actually think that may (for a change) be mostly accurate but that's speculation only. Some commentators have suggested that RF allied forces did booby-trap the region north of Kherson City as a part of their tactical withdrawal and repositioning, and I've seen Telegram channel footage that seems to show that UKR forces lost a whole heap of men and equipment along the way as a result of the mining, when they weren't also being strafed in other ways.

https://twitter.com/SpriterInfo1/sta...60829065183234

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https://twitter.com/SpriterInfo1/sta...60120546557952

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https://twitter.com/rabiusambo7/stat...48836943331329

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https://twitter.com/rabiusambo7/stat...69473865453568

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Posted by Mashika

what kind of cheese the moon is made off

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:ROFL:

Swiss, I think, as a result of the ballistic arc from Ukrainian S-300AD system missile batteries :bigsmile:

:focus:

https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/st...71366243340288

https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/st...71372211638273

https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/st...71378381651969

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https://twitter.com/jaccocharite/sta...61050452160518

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https://twitter.com/jaccocharite/sta...25396577042433

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https://www.rt.com/russia/566953-un-...aine-shelling/

UN responds to Russian nuclear risk request

The UN doesn’t have the capability to identify those behind the attacks on the Zaporozhye nuclear power plant (ZNPP), a spokesman for the secretary-general said on Monday. The comment came in response to Russia's call on the International Atomic Energy Agency to do its job properly and acknowledge that the shelling came from the Ukrainian side.

Around 30 projectiles struck the ZNPP over the weekend, according to the Russian Defense Ministry. The nuclear energy corporation Rosatom said the damage caused to the facility’s spent fuel storage came close to triggering a disaster. Moscow said it was clear the fire came from the Ukrainian-held town of Marganets, but the IAEA has avoided naming any names.

“We have no way to determine” who carried out the attacks, Farhan Haq, deputy spokesman for UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres, told reporters on Monday.

“We would like these attacks to stop,” Haq added, noting that the Secretariat “shares the concerns” of IAEA Director General Rafael Grossi and “joins him in calling on all parties to cease fire” around the ZNPP.

Ukrainian attacks risk ‘nuclear disaster’ – Rosatom
Ukrainian attacks risk ‘nuclear disaster’ – Rosatom
Europe’s largest nuclear power plant has been under Russian control since February. Damage to the spent fuel containers risks a release of radioactive material into the atmosphere, with unpredictable consequences, Rosatom has warned.

Both Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov and Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said on Monday that the IAEA should fully do its duty and name names.

“As an authoritative and independent international body, [the IAEA] must finally move away from abstract condemnations and demands to stop the shelling of the ZNPP without addressing the culprit, and clearly and unambiguously point at those carrying out the attacks,” Zakharova said. “This requires determination and responsibility. We really hope that they will be shown.”

Zakharova also accused Western governments of giving a “blank check” to the government in Kiev for “continuing their reckless attempts to cause irreparable damage” to the ZNPP.

This weekend’s attacks were the first major incident at the ZNPP since early September, when the IAEA stationed permanent observers at the site. According to Rosatom official Renat Karchaa, the IAEA inspectors surveyed the damage on Monday, accompanied by a Russian ballistics expert, and were able to see that the attack had come from the Ukrainian side. That report was transmitted to the IAEA headquarters.

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https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/1595003946711465984

https://sputniknews.com/20221122/sus...medium=twitter

Suspects in Multimillion Dollar 'Cryptocurrency Ponzi Scheme' Busted in Estonia

The suspects allegedly laundered their ill-gotten gains through shell companies and then bought luxury cars and real estate with the money.




Authorities in Estonia have arrested two locals accused of being involved in a $575 million cryptocurrency fraud scheme.
The suspects, two Estonian citizens named Sergei Potapenko and Ivan Turogin, are being charged by a court in the US with wire fraud and conspiracy to commit money laundering.
The suspects were allegedly involved in tricking people into investing into the cryptocurrency mining service HashFlare and virtual currency bank Polybius, with both of these ventures being nothing but pyramid schemes.

The suspects allegedly laundered the proceeds of this fraud through shell companies and then used that money buy luxury cars and real estate.
“These defendants capitalized on both the allure of cryptocurrency, and the mystery surrounding cryptocurrency mining, to commit an enormous Ponzi scheme,” said Seattle US Attorney Nick Brown.
Both Potapenko and Turogin now face extradition to the United States. Four other individuals from Estonia, Belarus and Switzerland were also reportedly charged in this case, but their identities were not yet revealed to the media.

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https://twitter.com/SputnikInt/statu...17021619859459

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Posted by Bill Ryan

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Posted by Fellow Aspirant

I suspect it was programmed to gently land where they would see it to make sure the message was delivered.

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Cruise missiles don't (and can't!) 'gently land'.

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Our cruise missiles in the u.s. navy [Tomahawks] were rocket launched and then had a turbine engine for 1ooo mile range, the rocket part was really brief just to get it airborne. So it wasn't powered by the rocket for very long at all. We launched quite a few of these [approx. 45] in 1998 at Iraq from my ship. One missile failed and it came toward the ship; they disabled it mid-flight and it fell right into the drink instead of striking our ship. Several of us witnessed this event.

My ship had the launcher forward on the bow so we could be aft on the fantail and watch these things launch. Some ships have them forward and aft so no one is allowed on deck for those launches. So I was on watch in engineering when we started firing but it was an all night ordeal. After watch some of us engineers went to the fantail to see the action. So the rocket takes off [at night the rocket blast is so bright over the ship it looks like daylight brightness] and shortly [seconds later] you can here the whine of the turbine engine as it takes over flight. The turbine will allow speeds of over 5oo mph but it can change velocity and many times they are designed to 'loiter' in an area before getting details required for striking a target. These things have a margin of error of approximately 1o metres. Their navigation systems check terrain and make adjustments accordingly. The navy also fires missiles without warheads to test ship's defences. No one is allowed on deck when these tests occur. There are versions of Tomahawk missiles relative to land strike, surface to surface, and surface to ship. They are quite complicated and in 1998 they cost a cool 1.3 million american, per missile.

So I think there is a possibility to land a cruise missile in a precise location without munitions. Why would someone launch a million dollar missile to send a message? Well any military generally speaking have sullied reputations regarding it's brains and acumen. But I wouldn't immediately discount the opportunity. Russia from time to time seems to be sending messages relative to its potential in battle.

These new hyper-sonic missiles, certainly would not 'land gently'. They use rockets but also one of the three types of hyper-sonic missiles uses a scramjet engine and these are referred to as cruise missiles also but they are very different from turbine engines.

Notwithstanding, I think it is possible to send a million dollar message - but if it were me, I would not waste the resources in such a way.

Don't forget to watch the news.... I don't know what thread to put this in, if there is a better one please change. Wow, we are definitely in the world of smoke and mirrors.


Reporting live from the war in Ukraine...whoops wrong green screen I can fix that!





Source: https://www.bitchute.com/video/3yFGhmB37r92

Russia’s former southern capital renounces its past: How Ukraine is destroying its heritage
Ukraine is turning into a significantly more homogeneous and far less culturally diverse country

In recent years, Ukraine has become the battleground for a ‘war of monuments’ waged among various political forces. In 2014, the process reached a peak during the mass demolition of statues of Vladimir Lenin and other Soviet politicians. These events fundamentally changed the symbolism and policy of the country's historical memory, paving the way to a reality in which any public speech must now be accompanied by the words ‘Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!’

This was the slogan of Stepan Bandera's World War Two nationalist movement, which collaborated with Adolf Hitler's Nazis and took part in the Holocaust.

Although Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky’s team initially tried to ‘reset’ the historical memory policy, radical nationalism got the upper hand in this symbolic battle. Following the start of Russia’s military operation, this year, the so-called ‘decommunization’ policy became openly known as ‘de-Russification’ – even with over half of the population officially recognized as Russian-speaking.

Memory wars
After Russian troops entered Ukraine in February, many locals projected their hatred of Moscow onto objects of cultural and historical heritage that were in any way linked to the Russian Empire or the Soviet Union. Meanwhile, politicians actively supported such sentiment, using it as a cheap way to boost their personal ratings.

Over the past months, the number of initiatives aimed at the cultural and historical ‘de-Russification’ of Ukraine have ballooned. Examples abound. The Kiev City Council recently renamed 11 streets having any reference to Russia (Lomonosov, Magnitogorsk, and Belomorskaya streets, among others). It also completely excluded the Russian language from the curricula of the capital’s kindergartens and schools. The decision was supported by 64 out of 120 deputies. Vadim Vasilchuk, head of the Standing Committee on Education, Science, Family, Youth and Sports of the body, commented that teaching Russian in the current situation is “inappropriate.” In fact, Kiev’s educational institutions stopped teaching the language in any shape or form (including as electives) at the beginning of the academic year.

Meanwhile, other Ukrainian cities saw a wave of ‘de-Pushkinization’ sweep through. In November, monuments to the great Russian poet were toppled in Kharkov and Zhitomir, while the monument in Odessa was painted over with the inscription ‘Get out!’ In Kiev, one of the oldest monuments to the bard had been taken down a few weeks earlier.

continue: https://www.rt.com/russia/566917-ukr...sing-heritage/

Russia reinforcing border with Ukraine

‘Large scale’ work is underway, the governor of Belgorod Region has announced

A new line of defense is being created on the border between Ukraine and Russia’s western Belgorod Region, governor Vyacheslav Gladkov announced during a press conference on Monday.

The official said the move comes in response to increasing tensions at the border, but did not disclose details about the construction, warning that his statements are “being carefully listened to by our enemies.”

“I will state this briefly: the work is being carried out on a large scale. Since April, within the framework of our powers, we have been actively engaged in strengthening the borders,” Gladkov said.

Asked if he is referring to the so-called “Wagner line” — a system of anti-tank structures built by the Russian private military organization the “Wagner group” in the Donbass Region — Gladkov said he would prefer not to comment on other “respected people” and wanted to focus on Belgorod’s so-called ‘zasechnaya’ line.

A ‘zasechnaya’ line refers to wooden defensive structures, consisting of felled trees, used by Russia between the 10th and 18th centuries to defend against enemy raids.

“The Belgorod Region has always stood at the frontier of the defense of the Russian state, and continues to do so,” the governor said.

After Russia began its military operation in Ukraine in late February, Kiev’s forces have repeatedly shelled and launched drones against civilian and military targets in the region. In some cases, private residences, as well as a school and kindergarten have been struck.

Last month, Russian President Vladimir Putin introduced a “medium action level” alert in some parts of Western Russia. It grants regional officials additional authority to ensure security and quickly react to any emergencies.

https://www.rt.com/russia/566993-rus...kraine-border/

US downplays execution of Russian POWs in Ukraine

Washington’s envoy for war crimes has acknowledged videos showing executions of captives while claiming Russians have done worse

While acknowledging concern over videos that showed Ukrainian forces executing captured Russian soldiers, the US war crimes envoy has argued that allegations against Kiev’s forces pale in comparison to Moscow’s alleged atrocities. :sick:

“We are obviously tracking that quite closely,” Beth Van Schaack, US ambassador-at-large for global criminal justice, told reporters in a telephone briefing on Monday. “It’s really important to emphasize that the laws of war apply to all parties equally, both the aggressor state and the defender state, and this is in equal measure.”

However, Van Schaack added, “when it comes to the war in Ukraine, that’s really where the equivalency ends. When we’re looking at the sheer scale of criminality exhibited by Russian forces, it’s enormous compared to the allegations that we have seen against Ukrainian forces.”

The envoy also claimed that Kiev has dealt with allegations of wrongdoing more responsibly.

“Russia inevitably responds with propaganda, denial, mis- and disinformation, whereas the Ukrainian authorities have generally acknowledged abuses and have denounced them and have pledged to investigate them,” she said.

continue: https://www.rt.com/news/566961-washi...pow-execution/

https://twitter.com/ArthurM40330824/...72125085024258

https://twitter.com/ArthurM40330824/...54512137322497

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https://twitter.com/ArthurM40330824/...99106056511489

https://twitter.com/MintPressNews/st...16062751993860

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=C_-ycZtFzho

https://twitter.com/ChannelOne_eng/s...59084990251009

https://twitter.com/ChannelOne_eng/s...57649712005121

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https://twitter.com/ChannelOne_eng/s...87375297724417

https://twitter.com/Ukraine66251776/...52406420951040

Quote:

---

Posted by Mashika

Here's something to ponder about

See this ship? Looks familiar?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ember_2013.jpg

(...) Why did it took so little time to go from being a potential most richest country in Europe to a self-entitled rude/nasty beggar and decadent society?

Where's the space industry? The shipyards? The steel plants? The electronics/nuclear industries? Can Ukraine build nuclear power plants? (...)

---

Taking your questions as real questions and not rhetorical ones, Mashika, could it be that the answer is the absence of a government like Vladimir Putin’s?

In other words, in Ukraine the strategy of lobotomising, raping and raiding the morsels of the Soviet Union succeeded – because there was no“Putin” to take over from a “Yeltsin” (while in Russia there was one), and maybe there was not even a “Yeltsin” in Ukraine, whereas the Russian Yeltsin, in spite of all his defects had the wisdom not to hold up the transition ultimately?

And if that is the case – doesn’t that prove the theory right that political transformations depend on the presence or absence of leadership qualities in the leaders? (Instead of considering them uniquely dependent on sociological and/or economical constraints?)

The answers are yes, I guess (my questions being rhetorical). For the countries of the world to see, what has been and is happening to Ukraine is what happens to a country, or a nation, or a civilisation, or a culture when it does not stand up for its essence, and is not led by people who have the mission to do so.

Too much fun. After the planeload of Nazis went to China begging for anything they could get their hands on, their next bright idea was to use state subsidies to pin Volkswagen in place. Then back to the plane and:




While most members were trying to focus on actual global issues, the G7 members within the G20 were effectively trying to hijack the summit and make it entirely Ukraine-focused, which failed for the most part.

It was German Chancellor Olaf Scholz who had to admit that they had failed to isolate Russia at the G20 summit in Bali.



Lavrov got the full reception there--they even danced! But he is barred from the OSCE meeting in Lodz, Poland, which sounds fitting because:


...the organization was using high-resolution cameras, originally placed to conduct ceasefire monitoring, to relay DPR and LPR positions to the Kiev regime forces which then used the provided data to target or correct their artillery fire. The OSCE mission provided their observation data, captured by cameras and other monitoring equipment they installed over the years. In essence, OSCE was spying and effectively waging war on the side of the Neo-Nazi junta. To make matters worse, the provided monitoring data also included the movement of regular Russian military personnel in the early days of the special military operation.



After a weird attempt to "pressure" Ankara into letting Finland deploy "wall of nuclear missiles", without any proof, Turkey then got mad at the United States, because they must be behind the PKK attacks. Here is a brief timeline about how they responded to U. S. proxies--likely in areas that also contain U. S. forces:


On November 18, the United States Consulate General in Erbil, the capital of the Iraqi Kurdistan region, issued a security alert warning American citizens of a near Turkish military operation in northern Iraq and northern Syria.

18 November، 2022

Hasaka, SANA -The Council of Sheikhs and Notables of the Syrian Tribes and Clans in Hasaka, during a meeting in the city of Qamishli on Friday, renewed its rejection of the illegal presence of American and Turkish occupation on the Syrian lands in all its forms.

“The US presence in the region aims to control Syria’s resources and deprive the Syrians of them, and it is an illegitimate presence that aims to serve the interests of the Israeli enemy, strike civil peace, and to create discord among all sects. “the Council said in a statement.


Starting around the 20th:


“Turkey did not inform Russia in advance of conducting its air operation in Syria and Iraq, and this issue will be discussed during the Astana meeting,” Lavrentiev said in statements to reporters ahead of the start of the 19th international meeting on Syria in the Astana format.


The Russian envoy also noted that the “illegal” presence of US troops in Syria was significantly hindering stability in the region. He suggested that if Washington’s military contingent were to withdraw from the Northeastern part of the country, it would help to calm the situation.

Laverentyev’s comments came after Turkish warplanes carried out a series of strikes destroying 89 targets in Syria and Iraq on Sunday, which were reportedly linked to the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) and the YPG.



Kurdish Firat News Agency (ANF) reported that Ankara has once again carried out an air attack against the city of Ain al-Arab in northern Syria.

On Sunday, the Turkish army shelled several villages in the northern countryside of Aleppo and fired missile barrages at the positions of the so-called Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) in the Al-Malikiyah area, north of Al-Hasakah, and Ain Issa area, north of Al-Raqqa.


In northern Syria, Turkish airstrikes targeted SDF-held areas in Aleppo, Raqqa and al-Hasakah, including the town of Kabani, the main stronghold of the Kurdish-led group.

The reporter of the Hawar News Agency, Essam Abdullah, was also among the casualties.

The Islamic Revolution Guards Corps (IRGC) Ground Force launched a fresh round of missile and drone attacks on the positions of separatist groups in Iraq’s Kurdistan Region.

Sabereen News reported that the attacks set off warning sirens at the United States’ Consulate in Erbil.




22 November، 2022

Hasaka, SANA- the US occupation forces brought out a new convoy of tanks loaded with oil from Syrian territory towards the Iraqi territories.

Local sources from al-Yarubiya in Hasaka countryside told SANA reporter that a convoy including 44 US occupation tanks laden with stolen Syrian oil left Hasaka province heading towards Iraq via the illegitimate al- Mahmoudiyah crossing over the past hours.


That last bit is not even news, but a nearly ten-year-old story that just keeps happening.


Doesn't always work:


Yemeni armed forces said they have successfully prevented a foreign [Greek] oil tanker from stealing the country's direly-needed oil by forcing the vessel away from a Southern port.

Saree reported the most recent of such incidents less than two weeks ago, when the country’s army troops and allied fighters managed to stop a foreign oil tanker in the waters off the energy-rich Southern Shabwah Province as it was trying to smuggle hundreds of thousands of barrels of fuel out of the impoverished Arab nation.

And an earlier case that came last month, saw the Yemeni military conducting a warning strike against a Saudi oil tanker that was likewise attempting to steal crude supplies from another Southern oil terminal.



In serious matters like executing POWs face down:


Ukrainian soldiers that executed 10 Russian prisoners of war belong to a brigade based in the city of Lvov that works closely with NATO, Russian broadcaster RT reported on Monday, citing a former Ukrainian soldier.

The soldier used to serve in this brigade, but switched to the Russian side after his father was executed by Ukrainians, the report said.

According to the former Ukrainian soldier, those deployed in the 80th brigade were taught to hate everything Russian long before the start of the special operation, RT said.

US troops, including forces with the Marine Corps, were involved in the training of the brigade, the soldier said.



And as sheer brutal honesty, speaking to Lexus and Vovan as Gabriel Macron, the Lavrov-excluding Polish president says:


“You think I need war with Russia? No, I do not want that. I do not want a war with Russia, and I am very careful, trust me, very careful,” Duda said, adding that he did not consider invoking article 5 of the NATO Treaty.

Thinking that Eugene Zellner or whatever his name is, is nuts:


“He says they are completely certain that it was a Russian missile launched by Russians. And he said that it could not have been a Ukrainian missile launch,” Duda added.

Quote:

---

Posted by Mashika

Here's something to ponder about

See this ship? Looks familiar?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ember_2013.jpg

That's the Ukraina, a sister ship to the Moscow that was gifted to Ukraine by Russia. But Ukraine, being able to build ships back in the USSR times, and having the shipyards and everything necessary to complete it, just simply took it, and then let it rot for decades

Around 30 million dollars were needed to finish it, that's nothing. And yet, there it sits rotting away, how can a country not be able to spend 30 million dollars on this?

Ukraine can't build anything

They live out of hand outs and expect to be given everything for free and ready to go. Anything that requires any effort is immediately put away or thrown to the curve

Ukraine as a country inherited lots of resources, shipyards, know-how about lots of stuff that were the primary resources of the USSR, and they completely did nothing with that for 30 years in a row. Except sell it out for cheap to western "partners". And they continue to sell the country in pieces for very cheap because they have no clue how to progress on their own

They turned what could have been the third richest country in the world into a beggar than requires monthly handouts and has no production of any kind other than grains, they can't build any new tech, they can't research, they can't restore any industries they had, they do nothing but expect handouts

Research topic: How many billions did Russia give to Ukraine through the past 3 decades and what happened to that money and aid? And second, How is it that Ukraine is in a lot of debt, when Russia paid it all 30 years ago and helped them start fresh with lots of resources and zero debt? Why did it took so little time to go from being a potential most richest country in Europe to a self-entitled rude/nasty beggar and decadent society?

Where's the space industry? The shipyards? The steel plants? The electronics/nuclear industries? Can Ukraine build nuclear power plants? No they can't, the ones they have are Soviet tech and they depended until very recently on Russia, but yet nuclear power was central in Ukraine, and they do have the know-how for sure

It's just that they just can't build anything, they went into full mediocre/lame mode and can't/won't even try to get out of it anymore.

They don't ask nicely, they demand handouts because they think they deserve them because they are "the master race"

---

Careful - people might actually begin to think you don’t like the Ukrainian people … :bigsmile:


They live out of hand outs
they expect to be given everything for free and ready to go.
Anything that requires any effort is immediately put away or thrown to the curve
they completely did nothing with that for 30 years in a row
no production of any kind other than grains,
they can't build any new tech,
they do nothing but expect handouts
they have no clue how to progress on their own
a self-entitled rude/nasty beggar and decadent society
It's just that they just can't build anything,
they went into full mediocre/lame mode
They don't ask nicely,
they demand handouts because they think they deserve them

You sound as if you consider the entire population of Ukraine to be parasites - lazy, incompetent, conniving, devious, manipulative, ungrateful … and the implication is that they are unfit to run their own, independent country.
I obviously don’t see the situation from the perspective of Russian nationalism, but that comes over as very harsh. As I’m sure you know, many atrocities committed throughout history began with words.

Quote:

---

Posted by Mashika

Ukraine can't build anything

---

You must know that statement isn’t true.

A quick glance around the internet shows that the emerging Ukrainian economy had growth of 3.2% in 2020.
The value of Ukrainian exports was US$68.24 billion last year, comprising mainly food/agricultural products, metallurgy and machinery, traded with 217 countries.
There’s also a flourishing IT industry - Grammarly originates from Ukraine. https://huri.harvard.edu/blog/ukrain...cal-innovation.

Quote:

---

Posted by Mashika

Where's the space industry? The shipyards? The steel plants? The electronics/nuclear industries?

---

Space/aerospace industries?
There are several private and state aerospace companies (along with start-ups) in Ukraine developing and building spacecraft, aircraft, and parts.
Pivdenmash https://yuzhmash.com/en/
Kurs Orbital https://kursorbital.com
Flight Control Propulsion https://flightcontrolpropulsion.com
Orbit Boy https://www.orbitboy.rocks
Antonov State Enterprise https://www.antonov.com/en
Space Agency http://www.nkau.gov.ua
Promin https://prominaerospace.com

No shipbuilding?
Products sold by Ukrainian shipbuilding companies in 2018 totalled almost UAH 3 billion. This is by 32% more than in 2017.
Ship repairs brought in another UAH 501 million (+47% compared to 2017).
https://gmk.center/en/posts/steel-fo...d-in-6-months/
According to Ukrsudprom, in 2017–2018, 25 vessels were built for the domestic market, and three exported. In the same period, 263 and 108 watercrafts were repaired respectively.
Over 5 thousand people work at shipbuilding companies, with almost 3 thousand engaged in shipbuilding and ship repairing.
There were 10 major shipbuilding companies operating in 2021, along with 2 design centres and one engine manufacturer.
https://gmk.center/en/posts/steel-fo...d-in-6-months/

Steel?
There is a list on Wiki of over 60 companies in Ukraine involved in the production of steel and cast iron, hardware and wire rope, pipes, and ore mining and enrichment,
and 24 more working in non-ferrous and alloy metallurgy.

Can't build new tech or do research?
The technology sector accounted for 4% of the country’s GDP and Ukraine was home to around 5,000 IT companies and 285,000 IT specialists.
There are over 300 universities in the country, all of which undertake research of various kinds.

Not bad for a people who “don’t build anything”.


PS
Isn’t that the ship that was ordered by Russia and then it never took ownership or paid for it because of the fall of the Soviet Union? Russia didn’t want it, and neither did Ukraine - I don’t think it was “gifted”.
Eventually, Russia said it would take it - but only if it was free. Brazil seems to be the latest potential buyer.

https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/st...97882328535041

https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/st...00094131814400

https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/st...02053341388801

https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/st...11368399740929

https://twitter.com/squatsons/status...11931526942720

https://twitter.com/squatsons/status...12986457313281

https://twitter.com/squatsons/status...14316341248001

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https://twitter.com/squatsons/status...15859379720192

https://twitter.com/ReadovkaWorld/st...11869149593600

https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/1595377642303197184

https://www.rt.com/news/567011-cia-s...ruit-russians/

CIA reveals plan for disgruntled Russians

The CIA is interested in recruiting Russians “disgusted” with the conflict in Ukraine, according to a report in the Wall Street Journal on Tuesday. The claim was made by deputy director of operations David Marlowe during a recent meeting at a Washington-area think-tank.

“We’re looking around the world for Russians who are as disgusted with that as we are,” Marlowe reportedly said, referring to the current events in Ukraine. “Because we’re open for business.”

Marlowe spoke “before a select audience of university faculty and staff” at George Mason University’s Hayden Center in Arlington, Virginia. The “CIA at 75” event was his first public appearance since he took office in June 2021, according to the WSJ. Though the event was held last week, the Hayden Center made the video of it public on Monday.

CIA Deputy Director for Analysis Linda Weissgold, described as responsible for producing finished intelligence reports for President Joe Biden and the rest of the US leadership, was also on the panel, along with the agency’s one-time acting director Michael Morrell.

Appointed by current CIA Director William Burns, Marlowe is an Arabic speaker whose expertise is in the Near and Middle East. According to him, Russian President Vladimir Putin “squandered” all of his power and influence by “invading” Ukraine in February. He described the conflict as a massive failure for Moscow and said it presented opportunities for Western intelligence agencies to recruit disaffected Russians.

Russia responds to US intelligence reported recruiting attempts READ MORE: Russia responds to US intelligence reported recruiting attempts
The announcement follows several instances during which Western intelligence agencies have tried to approach Russian personnel serving abroad, according to Moscow.

Last month, Moscow summoned the Dutch ambassador over reports that a British spy had tried to recruit a Russian military attache in The Hague. Earlier this year, the Kremlin denounced US attempts to suborn Russian diplomats as “very impudent behavior” and “unacceptable.”

The Hayden Center was set up in 2017 by retired US Air Force General Michael V. Hayden, several months after he became a CNN contributor. Hayden ran the National Security Agency (NSA) between 1999-2005 and the CIA from 2006-2009, amidst such controversies as the waterboarding torture of terrorism suspects and warrantless mass surveillance of Americans.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/1595383062262472704

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https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/1595379134078779397

https://www.rt.com/news/567009-croat...sident-troops/


Another EU country rejects training Ukrainian troops


Croatia can’t train Ukrainian troops on its territory as part of the EU aid program as that would be unconstitutional, President Zoran Milanovic said on Tuesday, responding to a request from the defense ministry in Zagreb.

“Given the justifiably great interest of the Croatian public in the announced participation of [Croatian military] members in the EU military assistance mission to Ukraine, and the unclear and unexplained circumstances that participation would entail, the Office of the President has to inform the public that the minister’s proposal is unfit to be considered,” Milanovic said, before explaining his reasoning.

Defense Minister Mario Banozic had sent Milanovic a draft proposal for Croatian participation in the European Union Military Assistance Mission (EUMAM), which reportedly involves training around 15,000 Ukrainian soldiers on the bloc's territory.

The Croatian constitution does not give Banozic grounds to make such a proposal, the president noted. Nor does it allow Ukrainian troops to set foot on Croatian soil, he argued, as Kiev is “not a member of any alliance” Zagreb belongs to and there are no international treaties otherwise regulating their status.

EU members to train Ukrainian military
EU members to train Ukrainian military
Milanovic’s public rejection of the EUMAM brief is the latest episode in the ongoing power struggle in Croatia. The social-democrat president, who has been in office since February 2020, has often been at odds with the legislature and the cabinet. The nationalist HDZ, which controls both, has been eager for Croatia to train Ukrainian troops. They also overruled Milanovic this spring, when he threatened to veto Sweden and Finland’s application to NATO in order to leverage concessions from the EU and the US.

The Croatian president’s criticism of EU sanctions against Russia – for being ineffective and backfiring on the bloc – has drawn the ire of Ukraine as well, which put him on its notorious “Peacemaker” blacklist, where those listed are regarded as 'enemies of Ukraine' and often subjected to threats and intimidation.

EUMAM was established on October 17 on the initiative of Czechia, currently presiding over the bloc. Nearby EU members Austria and Hungary have already said they will not participate in the mission either.

https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/1595409055303929856

Quote:

---

Posted by loungelizard

Quote:

---

Posted by Mashika

Ukraine can't build anything

---

You must know that statement isn’t true.

---

It is at least partly true, especially in terms of power plants.

Yes the statistics indicate some employment, in fact they make missiles, too. Actually, it should be among the most productive countries in Europe, with various costs, such as the repeal of most labor laws, and health guidelines against biolabs. For example, when you pay workers 40% less, it makes monetary figures look better for the companies. "Economics" doesn't quite tell the whole story of the actual society.

Quote:

---

Posted by Bill Ryan

Quote:

---

Posted by Fellow Aspirant

I suspect it was programmed to gently land where they would see it to make sure the message was delivered.

---

Cruise missiles don't (and can't!) 'gently land'.

SpaceX boosters 'gently land'. Not military missiles.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Tkk9VIKWw2w

---

Uhhhh ... yup. Like I said two days ago. I thought it was amusing to stop in mid sentence, as though it had just occurred to me, but I gather you failed to see the humour, because you seem to have pounced on a perceived opportunity to expose my ignorance. Did you? Or were you adding to the fun? Fair enough. :highfive:

Brian

Quote:

---

Posted by loungelizard

Quote:

---

Posted by Mashika

Here's something to ponder about

See this ship? Looks familiar?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ember_2013.jpg

That's the Ukraina, a sister ship to the Moscow that was gifted to Ukraine by Russia. But Ukraine, being able to build ships back in the USSR times, and having the shipyards and everything necessary to complete it, just simply took it, and then let it rot for decades

Around 30 million dollars were needed to finish it, that's nothing. And yet, there it sits rotting away, how can a country not be able to spend 30 million dollars on this?

Ukraine can't build anything

They live out of hand outs and expect to be given everything for free and ready to go. Anything that requires any effort is immediately put away or thrown to the curve

Ukraine as a country inherited lots of resources, shipyards, know-how about lots of stuff that were the primary resources of the USSR, and they completely did nothing with that for 30 years in a row. Except sell it out for cheap to western "partners". And they continue to sell the country in pieces for very cheap because they have no clue how to progress on their own

They turned what could have been the third richest country in the world into a beggar than requires monthly handouts and has no production of any kind other than grains, they can't build any new tech, they can't research, they can't restore any industries they had, they do nothing but expect handouts

Research topic: How many billions did Russia give to Ukraine through the past 3 decades and what happened to that money and aid? And second, How is it that Ukraine is in a lot of debt, when Russia paid it all 30 years ago and helped them start fresh with lots of resources and zero debt? Why did it took so little time to go from being a potential most richest country in Europe to a self-entitled rude/nasty beggar and decadent society?

Where's the space industry? The shipyards? The steel plants? The electronics/nuclear industries? Can Ukraine build nuclear power plants? No they can't, the ones they have are Soviet tech and they depended until very recently on Russia, but yet nuclear power was central in Ukraine, and they do have the know-how for sure

It's just that they just can't build anything, they went into full mediocre/lame mode and can't/won't even try to get out of it anymore.

They don't ask nicely, they demand handouts because they think they deserve them because they are "the master race"

---

Careful - people might actually begin to think you don’t like the Ukrainian people … :bigsmile:


They live out of hand outs
they expect to be given everything for free and ready to go.
Anything that requires any effort is immediately put away or thrown to the curve
they completely did nothing with that for 30 years in a row
no production of any kind other than grains,
they can't build any new tech,
they do nothing but expect handouts
they have no clue how to progress on their own
a self-entitled rude/nasty beggar and decadent society
It's just that they just can't build anything,
they went into full mediocre/lame mode
They don't ask nicely,
they demand handouts because they think they deserve them

You sound as if you consider the entire population of Ukraine to be parasites - lazy, incompetent, conniving, devious, manipulative, ungrateful … and the implication is that they are unfit to run their own, independent country.
I obviously don’t see the situation from the perspective of Russian nationalism, but that comes over as very harsh. As I’m sure you know, many atrocities committed throughout history began with words.

Quote:

---

Posted by Mashika

Ukraine can't build anything

---

You must know that statement isn’t true.

A quick glance around the internet shows that the emerging Ukrainian economy had growth of 3.2% in 2020.
The value of Ukrainian exports was US$68.24 billion last year, comprising mainly food/agricultural products, metallurgy and machinery, traded with 217 countries.
There’s also a flourishing IT industry - Grammarly originates from Ukraine. https://huri.harvard.edu/blog/ukrain...cal-innovation.

Quote:

---

Posted by Mashika

Where's the space industry? The shipyards? The steel plants? The electronics/nuclear industries?

---

Space/aerospace industries?
There are several private and state aerospace companies (along with start-ups) in Ukraine developing and building spacecraft, aircraft, and parts.
Pivdenmash https://yuzhmash.com/en/
Kurs Orbital https://kursorbital.com
Flight Control Propulsion https://flightcontrolpropulsion.com
Orbit Boy https://www.orbitboy.rocks
Antonov State Enterprise https://www.antonov.com/en
Space Agency http://www.nkau.gov.ua
Promin https://prominaerospace.com

No shipbuilding?
Products sold by Ukrainian shipbuilding companies in 2018 totalled almost UAH 3 billion. This is by 32% more than in 2017.
Ship repairs brought in another UAH 501 million (+47% compared to 2017).
https://gmk.center/en/posts/steel-fo...d-in-6-months/
According to Ukrsudprom, in 2017–2018, 25 vessels were built for the domestic market, and three exported. In the same period, 263 and 108 watercrafts were repaired respectively.
Over 5 thousand people work at shipbuilding companies, with almost 3 thousand engaged in shipbuilding and ship repairing.
There were 10 major shipbuilding companies operating in 2021, along with 2 design centres and one engine manufacturer.
https://gmk.center/en/posts/steel-fo...d-in-6-months/

Steel?
There is a list on Wiki of over 60 companies in Ukraine involved in the production of steel and cast iron, hardware and wire rope, pipes, and ore mining and enrichment,
and 24 more working in non-ferrous and alloy metallurgy.

Can't build new tech or do research?
The technology sector accounted for 4% of the country’s GDP and Ukraine was home to around 5,000 IT companies and 285,000 IT specialists.
There are over 300 universities in the country, all of which undertake research of various kinds.

Not bad for a people who “don’t build anything”.


PS
Isn’t that the ship that was ordered by Russia and then it never took ownership or paid for it because of the fall of the Soviet Union? Russia didn’t want it, and neither did Ukraine - I don’t think it was “gifted”.
Eventually, Russia said it would take it - but only if it was free. Brazil seems to be the latest potential buyer.

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I agree with lounguelizard.
I work for an Israeli company whose complete IT support is based in Ukraine and I know quite a few "Ukros" ( I dont like that term!). It is incorrect to say that Ukrainians are incompetent because I know very well how capable they are. It is also rude because the majority of people are not to blame for what is happening. It's the fault of governments, freemasons, secret societies, satanists, psychopaths ... I also don't like spitting on westerners in "developed countries" and I emphasize once again that the majority people of western countries are not the same as the vocal minority LGBTQWTF+ / woke / BLM, or their demented leaders.
Every time I enter this thread, I feel nauseous from the strong pro-Russian rhetoric based on Mashas thinking. Of course, I don't have to come here. I seem to be a bit of a masochist. :silent:

Quote:

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Posted by Isserley

Quote:

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Posted by loungelizard

Quote:

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Posted by Mashika

Here's something to ponder about

See this ship? Looks familiar?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ember_2013.jpg

That's the Ukraina, a sister ship to the Moscow that was gifted to Ukraine by Russia. But Ukraine, being able to build ships back in the USSR times, and having the shipyards and everything necessary to complete it, just simply took it, and then let it rot for decades

Around 30 million dollars were needed to finish it, that's nothing. And yet, there it sits rotting away, how can a country not be able to spend 30 million dollars on this?

Ukraine can't build anything

They live out of hand outs and expect to be given everything for free and ready to go. Anything that requires any effort is immediately put away or thrown to the curve

Ukraine as a country inherited lots of resources, shipyards, know-how about lots of stuff that were the primary resources of the USSR, and they completely did nothing with that for 30 years in a row. Except sell it out for cheap to western "partners". And they continue to sell the country in pieces for very cheap because they have no clue how to progress on their own

They turned what could have been the third richest country in the world into a beggar than requires monthly handouts and has no production of any kind other than grains, they can't build any new tech, they can't research, they can't restore any industries they had, they do nothing but expect handouts

Research topic: How many billions did Russia give to Ukraine through the past 3 decades and what happened to that money and aid? And second, How is it that Ukraine is in a lot of debt, when Russia paid it all 30 years ago and helped them start fresh with lots of resources and zero debt? Why did it took so little time to go from being a potential most richest country in Europe to a self-entitled rude/nasty beggar and decadent society?

Where's the space industry? The shipyards? The steel plants? The electronics/nuclear industries? Can Ukraine build nuclear power plants? No they can't, the ones they have are Soviet tech and they depended until very recently on Russia, but yet nuclear power was central in Ukraine, and they do have the know-how for sure

It's just that they just can't build anything, they went into full mediocre/lame mode and can't/won't even try to get out of it anymore.

They don't ask nicely, they demand handouts because they think they deserve them because they are "the master race"

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Careful - people might actually begin to think you don’t like the Ukrainian people … :bigsmile:


They live out of hand outs
they expect to be given everything for free and ready to go.
Anything that requires any effort is immediately put away or thrown to the curve
they completely did nothing with that for 30 years in a row
no production of any kind other than grains,
they can't build any new tech,
they do nothing but expect handouts
they have no clue how to progress on their own
a self-entitled rude/nasty beggar and decadent society
It's just that they just can't build anything,
they went into full mediocre/lame mode
They don't ask nicely,
they demand handouts because they think they deserve them

You sound as if you consider the entire population of Ukraine to be parasites - lazy, incompetent, conniving, devious, manipulative, ungrateful … and the implication is that they are unfit to run their own, independent country.
I obviously don’t see the situation from the perspective of Russian nationalism, but that comes over as very harsh. As I’m sure you know, many atrocities committed throughout history began with words.

Quote:

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Posted by Mashika

Ukraine can't build anything

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You must know that statement isn’t true.

A quick glance around the internet shows that the emerging Ukrainian economy had growth of 3.2% in 2020.
The value of Ukrainian exports was US$68.24 billion last year, comprising mainly food/agricultural products, metallurgy and machinery, traded with 217 countries.
There’s also a flourishing IT industry - Grammarly originates from Ukraine. https://huri.harvard.edu/blog/ukrain...cal-innovation.

Quote:

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Posted by Mashika

Where's the space industry? The shipyards? The steel plants? The electronics/nuclear industries?

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Space/aerospace industries?
There are several private and state aerospace companies (along with start-ups) in Ukraine developing and building spacecraft, aircraft, and parts.
Pivdenmash https://yuzhmash.com/en/
Kurs Orbital https://kursorbital.com
Flight Control Propulsion https://flightcontrolpropulsion.com
Orbit Boy https://www.orbitboy.rocks
Antonov State Enterprise https://www.antonov.com/en
Space Agency http://www.nkau.gov.ua
Promin https://prominaerospace.com

No shipbuilding?
Products sold by Ukrainian shipbuilding companies in 2018 totalled almost UAH 3 billion. This is by 32% more than in 2017.
Ship repairs brought in another UAH 501 million (+47% compared to 2017).
https://gmk.center/en/posts/steel-fo...d-in-6-months/
According to Ukrsudprom, in 2017–2018, 25 vessels were built for the domestic market, and three exported. In the same period, 263 and 108 watercrafts were repaired respectively.
Over 5 thousand people work at shipbuilding companies, with almost 3 thousand engaged in shipbuilding and ship repairing.
There were 10 major shipbuilding companies operating in 2021, along with 2 design centres and one engine manufacturer.
https://gmk.center/en/posts/steel-fo...d-in-6-months/

Steel?
There is a list on Wiki of over 60 companies in Ukraine involved in the production of steel and cast iron, hardware and wire rope, pipes, and ore mining and enrichment,
and 24 more working in non-ferrous and alloy metallurgy.

Can't build new tech or do research?
The technology sector accounted for 4% of the country’s GDP and Ukraine was home to around 5,000 IT companies and 285,000 IT specialists.
There are over 300 universities in the country, all of which undertake research of various kinds.

Not bad for a people who “don’t build anything”.


PS
Isn’t that the ship that was ordered by Russia and then it never took ownership or paid for it because of the fall of the Soviet Union? Russia didn’t want it, and neither did Ukraine - I don’t think it was “gifted”.
Eventually, Russia said it would take it - but only if it was free. Brazil seems to be the latest potential buyer.

---

I agree with lounguelizard.
I work for an Israeli company whose complete IT support is based in Ukraine and I know quite a few "Ukros" ( I dont like that term!). It is incorrect to say that Ukrainians are incompetent because I know very well how capable they are. It is also rude because the majority of people are not to blame for what is happening. It's the fault of governments, freemasons, secret societies, satanists, psychopaths ... I also don't like spitting on westerners in "developed countries" and I emphasize once again that the majority people of western countries are not the same as the vocal minority LGBTQWTF+ / woke / BLM, or their demented leaders.
Every time I enter this thread, I feel nauseous from the strong pro-Russian rhetoric based on Mashas thinking. Of course, I don't have to come here. I seem to be a bit of a masochist. :silent:

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Lol, or perhaps you have been conditioned to feel wrong about anything that puts Ukraine into a bad light? And it bothers you internally even if you try to not feel that way

Maybe if you went to look more into this, you would find that yes, "The Ukros" are vicious beasts with no morals or ethics, capable of killing their own people at any time if needed, or if they can get a personal win out of it

I never said that i talk about the entire Ukrainan population, that's your programming talking to you. I have been very clear tons and tons of times explaining i talk about the people in control, the top levels and governments, not the general population. If you truly had read my posts you would know that :)

And i was going to explain why the points made above are misleading and incorrect, some in purpose and some because of lack of research (don't just go pick up whatever you find on the next first and use it as proof just because it tells you what you want to hear, specially if the source if a pro Ukrainian site or organization)

So anyways, i was going to explain that but honestly what a bore this is, i know you won't care to read or understand anything said and will just skip and look away. I'm not assuming anything because i can clearly see you have done that already in the past, if like you said, you have been reading this thread and somehow did not find all the evidence about the war crimes and other crimes committed by Ukraine at least a bit bothersome

If you don't have more clarity of mind, then you'll continue to be a play thing and a tool for the advancement of the UkroNazi's agenda

First:
There's a difference between having a factory production line that builds products designed by a foreign company, in which you have zero control over the design and specifications and just get used as a sweatshop because of cheap labor and taxes and corruption that allows to get most of that for free, and a real innovative industry that produces things no one else does and can self-substain or advance without having to license or sell itself to others for cheap

Without the outsourcing and cheap labor/little taxes offer, there's nothing going on in Ukraine, nothing new is built or designed by and for Ukrainians ,they just get orders from some foreign company and follow them to specs, and that's it

And second:
If you go do some actual research, you'll find that most of the land, and these companies, are owned by foreigners who got them for very cheap, and that the 'owner' in Ukraine is basically just a name lender to simplify the operations and protect the company. All the money that is supposed to enter Ukraine through those industries, is already money that goes into the pockets of foreigners

Check the farming land owners, the Ukrainians in control of the regions forced the original farm owners to sell for ridiculous cheap prices or face bankrupcy, then they sold the land to foreigners and pocketed the money. Now when you see that Ukraine is selling thousands of tons of grain of this or that kind, that money that is displayed as stats is only going through Ukraine because that's how they skip on paying taxes due to corruption, then it goes into the safe heaven account of westerners from the US/UK/EU and never benefits the Ukrainian population.

It is a scam, it is draining Ukraine out of its resources and moving the money to the western hidden owners

But of course this is not expressed on those misleading articles/stats. And whoever dares to speak up about it may die of suicide or find themselves investigated because of 'pro-russian' views, then killed anyway while 'resisting arrest'

For someone who likes street level Ukrainians, you sure help with their destruction by looking away to the reality of their country

The only thing i got from your post and the one quoted is that you guys have no clue about what' truly goes on in Ukraine, or why, or who is behind it, and just think that somehow this is a two sided thing in which either you are pro-russian or pro-ukrainian. And that's the simplified childish view that is very useful to lead the masses in whichever way they may be useful

Tomorrow you may be told that Ukraine should not be supported, once it is not useful anymore to the western 'partners', then everyone will condemn the entire country without any attempt at reasoning

Open your eyes, or not, it's up to you

The Grammarly example is actually hilariously ironic, because it is the perfect example and proof of what i have been saying, quote by the founder of that company:

Quote:

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They started the project in the Western world because, according to Alex Shevchenko, "unlike Ukrainian universities, Western educational institutions are very open to new technologies." At the same time, Lytvyn and Shevchenko decided to target customers who use English in everyday life, rather than English learners

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammarly

If that doesn't say anything to you about the actual ground level situation over there in Ukraine, then nothing will ever do

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Posted by loungelizard

Not bad for a people who “don’t build anything”

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Ukraine has a profitable laundry sector as well

Attachment 49963

Imperial oligarchs love the Ukrainian laundry sector. Especially Lindsey Graham

Attachment 49964

From 2013-2018, the South Carolina oligarch pursed near $200k for his warmongery. His 2015 politcal pac pocketed $50k from Raytheon, Lockheed, Northrup, etc

No guesses who funded his business trip to Kyiv in 2016

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=JeWHviwLMy8

But it was Julian Assange brilliantly summarized how the empire launders through war

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=_IGU_7alJ80