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We are all a Universe unto ourselves and collectively One...Universe...I am having such an experience in this lifetime with all the joys and sorrows...and I accept that they are all of Mine and the Universes' making...thank you all for speaking...I love listening and appreciate your sharing...
The black goo enthralls all it touches or lets be touched by its name. It is foreign, insatiably invasive and utterly evasive. It thinks in sheets. It acts as one yet has no motive, no ambition, no impulse. It spreads thinly, ever thinner over all the world. Viscous tendrils reach, seeks.
Unsure of the reference.
During various stages in my life I have blamed God, the devil, God again, Satan, the ego, George Bush and Stephen Harper, then the devil, God and the ego again. I am presently considering whether despite all the apparent interference I might not be the most likely suspect to lay most of the blame on. If there is some sort of outside interference it must act contingent with my expected responses. So, the best way to counteract any such foreign intervention is to be unpredictable, creative, independent and self reliant. Course, if I could truly be those things I'd have no one to blame anything on anyway, pretty much. As the oracle said to Neo, "It is a pickle..."
@ Ilie and greybeard
One thing comes to mind . The Project Camelot interview with David Icke.
He said something like , yes we are all pure awareness having an experience. So yes, it is all a game...but the question is, what future game you want humanity to play? What future game you want for your children?
So if we are playing this game can we try to make it a pleasurable experience? How about we stand up for humanity and for our future for a change?
Loading level 12...Humanity back to love and awareness ...PLEASE WAIT... ;P
Hi Cristian,Quote:
Posted by Cristian
The way I see it there is no contradiction between David Icke and what I wrote (in fact he was the fist one to suggest to me the holographic nature of our experience and how everything actually happens "inside" of our awareness).
As David Icke says, if you want to change the movie you do not shout at the pictures on the screen. You need to have a chat with the projectionist. Who or what is doing the projection?!... that is the question! We stand up, be we stand up in awareness. We solve anything there is to solve inside ourselves first. I think that's the way to change the movie that's being projected.
PS: I just realized something. The writings of David Icke are good way to have a look at your shadow/dark self. He exposes that front and center.
Ilie,
As Christine and others suggested , being in a process of inner change, trying to embrace your shadow ---> this things get noticed by external forces , forces that do not want to see you changing the projection. This is the core issue.
When you try to apply Gandhi's "Be the change you want to see in the world" you see something out there fighting against you. That is the realization of both problems. You fight yourself and then you fight something else . What is that something else? That is my question.
The only answer I can give right now (w/o any proof and subject to change at any time) is that the "something else" is still You (perhaps the unconscious you, the rejected you.)
Thank you for this.Quote:
Posted by Ilie Pandia
I like thinking about this idea a lot, and would like, for my own comfort, share some of my thoughts.
Lets just say, that there is no way to ultimately define consciousness because consciousness defining itself enters an infinite loop. In my mind, Alan Watts and Robert Anton Wilson explain it best - but again it is my opinon. Personal experiences may wary.
The whole question of consciousness, is very likely the result of self-directed self-organisation of matter, that we call evolution. At some point the matter became self-organised enough that the electrical impulses of the brain gave way to the awareness, that is the knowledge of ones existence. As the time, progressed, the self awareness gave way to inteligence, which started to ponder upon itself.
If one ponders long enough, one starts asking these amazing questions, one of which is the nature of good and evil.
But in that sense, this question is also posed by the awareness, usually to try and explain away the suffering and pleasure we experience. And anyone will explain this, within the framework of their own consciousness, programming etc.
In my mind, these questions are self defeating. (again, personal experiences may vary). Self defeating - that is to say, they aim at explaining reality, from within - which is usually difficult to do.
Good and evil are just concepts, that are associated with experiences of different people. A native in Papua New Guinea will see cannibalism as good practice, in his frame of reference, me however, not so much. Thus personal experiences of good and evil will vary also.
The suffering is usually caused by our skewed concept of time - that everything exists in the future, rather than now. The pleasure is always present. Being more present may result in less suffering.
And by suffering, I mean the resistance against the reality, which means, THAT, WHAT IS.
I would say, many more people live in the future (or the past) rather than now. Living in the future will most of time result in fear, and fear will result in suffering (this is the best way I can think of explaining it). This applies to people here on this forum also. I have been a member for a little while, and have seen that for some, the IDEAS they hold dear are most ever important. Conspiracy theories (which I also accept), metaphysics, and such, are all the endgame to them. To me they are just the process. I dont hate people in power, because in their reality what they do is good (for them). Hatred towards them only antagonises the voice in my head.
What to do then? (again, that is in my reality)
1. Realise that reality is. For instance, if the forever talking voice in your head shut up for a little, the meat-robot that you believe carries YOU (capital you, living inside your head) would carry on the same. The cells would not stop working, breating digesting etc would carry on. You would feel hungry the same, horny the same, tired the same. The only thing that would happen, would be that the voice in your head would not try to explain it to you, in terms of past and the future. Life would carry on
Of course it is not easy. The penalty for the degree of complication of our brain is the existence of this voice. This voice can realise that, and become more helpful than harmful, but that takes placing ones self in this infinite look of asking about consciousness. By the way, (Alan Watts, again,) this infinite consciousness examination loop is meditation (the way I experience it)
So, I guess, to the core of this threads topic- what is evil? I dont know. For instance I dont have the experience to assert that it is a result of higher power. It very well may be. Conversely, I dont know if it is a result of human nature - it very may well be also. I (again, personal) accept it is a part of my reality.
I also strongly believe, that long-term it will subside and go away, one way or another.
Thanks for reading, it is by far my longest post so far, and I hope at least one of you got some enjoyment from reading it.
M
We get hung up on concepts that involve outside, versus inside, mind 'in here' as opposed to mind 'out there.' And we can't help but struggle with it. We're meant to struggle. If we reach any firm conclusions we develop a belief system around the conclusions--and every belief system has a shadow component.
For example, once we become 'awake' to the idea that there may well be some external force manipulating us mentally, we have to depress the shadow aspect of ourselves that wants to label anyone outside of that belief system, as ignorant, asleep, etc... etc... Once we are 'awake' to karma, the shadow aspect in ourselves unites with the shadow of that belief system and we can abrogate all responsibility to help others in distress, because they 'chose their fate,' according to the laws of karma.
We can adhere to the belief that fear, almost exclusively, is the root problem of suffering and that constraints on the personality should be avoided. The shadow of that belief system unites with our limited logic and we can become Aleister Crowley-like. Those who cause intentional distress, are let off the hook, to a point, because they are, 'acting out of fear.' Those who are in pain and suffering the tortures of the damned can be condemned for not keeping their fear under control.
There is no belief system, including the Jungian one, that encourages an examination of the shadow, that cannot be reworked into a belief that is destructive to the self and others.
What we have to do is to retain philosophical, theoretical flexibility, not take our opinions too seriously. We have to be able to think and feel on our feet, resist rigidity in thought, and have compassion for others. Because being human on this planet is one tough gig.
Sometimes I wonder if you guys realize that you are taking the easy way out.
I also see that, for the most part, the followers of the “all evil comes from within” dogma are well educated individuals that seek to enhance their spiritual awareness . I get it , it feels right and it makes sense. I too was into this idea some years ago. And I still don’t think it’s a wrong concept…but I do think it’s not the whole picture.
Ever wonder why most of the users of this forum that posted disturbing experiences involving various entities came to the conclusion that there is indeed an outside influence at play?
Why do you think they cannot accept that evil as their inner projection?
Humans can act in various ways. Contrary to general opinion, I think most people are genuinely kind and decent. Something doesn’t add up. How can we be at a personal level decent human beings and so ****ed up as a whole?
It is my strong belief that LEFT ALONE , humanity can be so much more. I don’t think that the reality we are living in is the sum projection of only each and one of us.
Now, I can try to explain in detail why I feel this outside evil is something alien from humanity. Why the energy they are projecting is so strange and not of this world. Don’t know yet if I want to go there or not :(
The main part of the illusion is separation.
Spiritual teaching says Remove the obstacles that reinforce separation = ego, and leave the world to God.
Quantum physics is proving that time, space and separation is a non truth.
We can in reality only work effectively on our self/ego to remove these barriers to Truth.
I equate ego with shadow self from a spiritual point of view.
Every advance we make, "personally", automatically lifts the collective consciousness and is therefore is very practical in easing the suffering of "others".
As for non human entities-- yes there is the lower astral and all the negative influence they have on the collective and individuals.
Every spiritual teacher has said in their own words "Beware of wolves in sheep's clothing"
Just dont be attracted to the external that promises so much and gives heart ache and pain after a brief period of pleasure/gain.
Jesus was tempted by the devil with material gain--ie rule the world.
The ego is acquisitional, enough is never enough.
Its ok to have material things and work towards having a better more comfortable life.
The problems arise when we equate possessions with happiness.
Very often relationships are based on "You are supposed to make me happy" My wife.= ownership= possession.
Then we are possessed. Owned by our wants needs and desires.
Enlightenment is a desire-less state.
One can be very satisfied with relatively little.
True joy is not based on anything external.
Yogananda said "The darkness comes from the same place as the light"
Freewill is ours.
If we want to see a better world we have to chose wisely.
We can release the shadow self, its not what we ultimately are.
Chris
The problem is that while we accept that there can be no separation in the all-that-is, that it is an illusion, there are separatists who do not and who are living in that illusion. Hence from the standpoint of all that is, perceived evil is inevitably immanent, whereas from the finite standpoint of us individuals, who have very largely a non-separatist outlook, evil transcends our personal experience. We therefore also feel separation, despite ourselves, from those who would be separate: this is the backlash they are causing. We feel our all-that-is to be threatened to the extent that there is the suggestion of something else in addition to all that is, which of course is patent nonsense.Quote:
Posted by Cristian
This is why the battle is to win back whomever can be won back, leaving us to view the total separation of those who would be totally separate to be an illusion, zero loss, and no separation. Or, to put it another way, when we raise our game, such entities will simply disappear. The mathematics are simple enough: let x equal all that is; then x+0 = x, and x-0=x.
We are here to make a choice, but it is like my having three apples and zero bananas and suggesting you try a banana. Totally bananas ;)
To try and see this in alternative concrete, physical terms, take the astronomer Tom Van Flandern explaining how a total vacuum cannot exist. Note: ‘substance’ is here taken to include the dynamic aether.
There is the common saying, to the effect that Satan’s greatest achievement is to have made people think that he doesn’t exist. I think even C.S. Lewis, author of The Screwtape Letters, takes this view. In one sense, he’s dead right. But in another, on the contrary, Satan’s greatest achievement is to have made people think that he does exist. :)Quote:
To emphasize the point that true void implies non-existence, we are asserting that every point in the perceptible universe is at every moment of time filled with contiguous substance at some infinitesimal level. If substance could be imagined to become absent anywhere at any time, time there would cease and the perceptible universe would collapse until the ‘void’ was filled. Put another way, a particle reaching one edge of a ‘void’ would skip instantaneously to the opposite edge, just as if the ‘void’ had zero dimensions, because there is no substance to mark the passage of time inside the ‘void’, and no absolute time without substance (…) in the Meta Model, substance and existence are interchangeable. Where there is substance, there is existence, and vice versa; and where there is no substance, there is no existence, and vice versa. (Dark Matter, Missing Planets… p.18)
Sure, this sounds highly counterintuitive, for Satan as we know is the ultimate materialist. But think about it for a moment: it makes good sense.
There's nothing bigger or more powerful than you are. If you want or need evil masters to run or hide from,
you got um. It suggests a certain resistance to responsibility, but oh well. You do get over it.
added; The only answer I can give right now (w/o any proof and subject to change at any time) is that the "something else" is still You (perhaps the unconscious you, 'the rejected you'.) Ilie Pandia
That's how big and powerful you are.
@auraucaria
I'm finding more and more that your posts address stuff that is happening in my 3D reality in a most uncanny way.
The existence or non existence of evil really does boil down to what each one of us believes.
I honestly cannot say that I have experienced evil first hand.
Whatever I saw...it was me at that time, that attached that label.
Upon further reflection I would admit that the behavior I had witnessed
was no more than a brief moment of human weakness.
But this is not the case with others who are becoming hardened in their conviction that evil not only exists,
but is all around them.
Here in Costa Rica which was once 99% Catholic, the influx of protestant
churches has created a bigger rift in the population than the two-party political system or soccer affiliations.
The status quo Catholics think the exodus from their church is a threat to the fabric of society.
The irony here is that these more modern Protestant churches were the first to bring up the concept of an ever-present Satan, but all of a sudden the Catholic priests have also begun to see demons and Satanic people everywhere,
so this labeling is being done by both sides now.
If someone wants to drop out of church-going altogether, and start to associate with someone like me
who is never seen in church except at weddings and funerals,
then they run the risk of getting told by both sides that they are completely in the clutches of Satan.
At this very moment I'm having to help a young local person (who was once my therapist/analyst) to figure out this dilemma, as her parents (who she still lives with) see her excursions into psychology as evil.
Also her not sharing every detail of what her clients (me) tell her drives them to some pretty strange maneuvers to needle her with manipulative and hurtful comments, and they are always telling her that she is possessed.
What complicates matters even more now is that my husband, who would rather stay out of it all, is their family doctor.
So here we have a situation where neither dogma (oneness versus separateness) is enough.
Respect of self means living up to one's highest ideals, and respect of others means the same, yet that's where it becomes complicated as these two cannot be ever identical.
Just to clarify further- when respecting others, one must take into consideration that they might not yet be ready to relinquish all their privacy, and yield to one's own dogma of oneness, that they are not yet willing to see everyone else in a positive light, nor regard other's motives as squeaky clean.
However, focusing on Satan instead of God in a religious community can be powerful stuff, and then Satan will tend to pop up everywhere, even if only as a thought form that was created by the collective mind. But to those individuals he has real hooves and real horns and a real tail.
That something else is a mind projection--or if you prefer a judgemental thought.Quote:
Posted by Cristian
We have expectation of how the other should act and behave.
With thoughtless awareness everything is as it is---so good and evil dont even come into it.
It just depends on the level of consciousness.
There is that which promote life and that which definitely does not---that is not a judgement just an awareness that its best not to associtate with lower vibration. Its all comes from one vibration but different levels of expression.
A good example is water. It can be steam, all the way down to ice.
Ice can become liquid can become steam.
Lower heavy dense vibration does not have to stay that way, everything has potential to change for the "better" or "worse"
Its perception as well.
A warm day in Iceland would be considered chill on the equator.
So good and evil means different things to different people in the illusion.
The advanced souls sees it differently--without judgement it is as it is.
They would not however put their hand in a furnace.
There is a "discernment" that is beyond mind and thought.
What ever spiritual level a person is at is their truth and they have little choice but to act accordingly.
You dont go down the Getto shouting I am God and so are you --I love you all.
You would get parted from your money and possibly your life rather rapidly I suspect.
Balance, balance--discretion, discretion. Be aware.
Chris
Cristian - thank you for your wonderful letter ! It's not everyday I get my own "public letter". I have enjoyed this thread immensely and am glad to see that it has led to the question of "what is evil ?" - a question worth it's own thread ! I shall let others speak for me. My ears are wide open ! ;-)
Quote:
Posted by Cristian
Oh what a tangled web we weave ! (enter Brian Rix, stage L. sans trousers) Chuckle chuckle ;)Quote:
Posted by ulli
:kiss: :p :hail:
Quote:
Posted by Kindred
I think I'll post what I want to say here, rather than on Bright's thread.
What's the shadow ? It's whatever we are not aware of within ourselves. It isn't necessarily "bad", it may be that you are unaware of your capacity for compassion and selfless service. If you want to get a clue as to what's there, there's always Ayahuasca, or alternatively, here's an exercise for you, but prepare to be challenged. We've all (probably) done the self-help type of stuff where we list our good qualities, well now for something completely different:
Get 2 pieces of paper. On the top of one, write "I am not ...." and list everything that you are not, all the things that disgust you and piss you off about humanity. On the top of the other, write "I would never ....." and write all the things that you would never do or be.
Then it gets hard, because in order to truly become conscious and free, you have to be able to embrace all of those ghastly qualities, contemplate doing them (Note in very big letters - I am not advocating doing anything harmful or illegal), contemplate what it would be like for you to be or do those things, without judgment (difficult !) and then realize that the reason that you aren't a mass-murderer, for example is because you choose not to be.
An example from my personal history, just to clarify things a little. I have never been a "bad" person, and always thought I was above doing bad things. When I lived in Peru a few years back, my situation deteriorated to the point where I had no money. Literally no money. I remember laying in my hammock contemplating my last 70 centavos: "do I use it as a bus fare to get to work, either today or tomorrow ? Or do I buy a glass of orange juice to sustain myself ?" I then tried to think of how I could turn my luck round, and contemplated everything, including various illegal and morally questionable trades. And I chose not to do any of thoose things, but the point is - I acknowledged my ability to do them, which required me to acknowledge that, contrary to my years of being Mr Nice Guy, I was perfectly capable of acting against my own moral beliefs.
Another thing you can do to get a handle on your shadow is to look at what annoys you, or what people you most dislike, and then look at their qualities. Is it bankers ? Politicians ? Whatever. The qualities in those people are the qualities in your own psyche that you have consigned to the shadow, the "I am not" section.
There isn't one person on this planet inhabiting a white skin who does not contain in his or her ancestry - murder, rape, child-abuse, genocide etc. Denying it's there doesn't make it go away. Putting more people in prison doesn't make it go away. Owning it, looking at it and embracing it is the way we, as a species heal, along with a communal consensus that such and such behaviours are not what we choose to adopt.
OK, what about "external" evil. My view, and I might be wrong, is that the evil "out there" springs from our own personal and collective shadow. And there is also our propensity, nurtured by Judaeo-Christianity, to project it all onto a devil.
Please read what I said carefully, I'm aware that it could be misinterpreted.
I discovered through my experiences and the Horus-Ra thread that I had a choice. Either I am "in" the matrix and thus in a position such that the Archons have their way with me or the Archons (all dark forces, my "shadow beings"... in fact any form of evil) is actually within me.Quote:
Posted by Cristian
Both have been true. For most of my life, the former totally dominated. Now, I simply see these beings as within my own psyche.
By taking this latter point of view, I have now made the following decisions -
I decided to no longer "feed" the energies that I used to make readily available to these "constructed beings."
I consider the creative force that plays a roll in my current experience as responsible for these beings and that the deepest part of me created this creative force - speaking metaphorically, Sophia (of Gnostic creation mythology). Following this metaphor, Sophia created (along with Phelete), the Anthropos which is the prototype human being. She also created the Archons according to the myth. That makes these Archons, step siblings... metaphorically.
My primary solution is to not provide the food which those who study the Archons suggest the Archons strive to "eat" - my negative emotions / energies.
My theory is that if we all did this, the Archons must get used to a different type of food (and keep in mind the saying, "You are what you eat") or, if they are unable to continue to exist, they pass into our past as some species die off.
In addition, I cast the out the Universe this thought... "That if it be possible, like Pinocchio, that the Archons could set aside their deceptive ways then perhaps they might somehow grow their own soul. Thinking that if they are able to do so, then we would enjoy a completely new dynamic between us.
The key to viewing the dark forces as within us is that the viewer then has no choice but to take responsibility for their experiences and interactions with these beings. I simply got sick and tired of the drama.
And guess what? It has virtually gone away - no more negative demonic experiences in my life at all whatsoever. My only sadness is that it looks like each of us must accomplish this individually. I wish we all could.
..........