Re: W-18 is hitting the Streets - a high alert danger?
Since the 50's and 60's the US Army has been using Bacillus subtilis as a substitute for live Anthrax spores due to its similarity..
There are NUMEROUS reports that people develop COPD., that 20 % of the spores are retained in the lungs, that hypersensitivity and allergy develops. YET the army, CIA, and other testing agencies feel it is safe.. Those who are somewhat debilitated could very well succumb and develop pulmonary issues.
It is MONSTROUS that such deliberate infectious agents are being SPRAYED in public areas. Those sensitive will have difficulties..
This Bacillus subtilis situation obviously deserves its own thread.. The W-18 guarantees death.. The Bacillus subtilis infection is a slow life-long assault on the lungs. It is possible that smokers, those with any lung lesions, the Bacillus subtilis can enter the bloodstream.
(One Source Link out of MANY reports of the dangers of Bacillus subtilis)
Quote:
Posted by
Hervé
As it happens:
[..]
In 1966, as part of a similar test, US Army scientists smashed light bulbs filled with charcoal and Bacillus subtilis, bacteria that can cause food poisoning.
A mere five minutes after the bulbs were smashed at the 23rd Street Station, the bacteria could be detected at every station between 14th Street and 59th Street.
After four days of testing, scientists concluded that more than a million people had been exposed. While the Army scientists noted no adverse affects on passengers, there was no data to prove it.
It’s safe to assume they didn’t test a million people for food poisoning. By the researchers’ account, New Yorkers dealt with the cloud of charcoal and Bacillus subtilis, a literal biological attack, the same way they dealt with any other hazard on the commute. “When the cloud engulfed people, they brushed their clothing, looked up at the grating apron and walked on.”
Re: W-18 is hitting the Streets - a high alert danger?
Micro-encapsulation HIDES WMD's until timed release.
(sigh)..
(Link: http://www.nsti.org/publications/Nan...05/pdf/856.pdf)
Even if there were a detection system, the "artificial solid-state" integrated circuit chip, "the electronic NOSE" they call it.. apparently the nano-encapsulation technique has been developed (see the PDF link above).
What that means, is that the microscopic particles of W-18 or any toxin can be hidden from detection, by placing a coating surrounding the particle. The PDF describes how such is done.
Carmody earlier observed that micro-fine grinding would enable excellent dispensing of the particles into the air, where the mere act of breathing would enable the toxic substance W-18 to be inhaled, deeply into the lungs. No chance to cough it out at that point.
Having jumped in head-over-heels, researching what has been happening in the field of WMD... seems that the current trend has been to micro-encapsulate the substances.. so that not only are they not able to be readily detected by the sensors (such are placed all over Washington DC and other critical areas), they are TIME RELEASE..
Meaning, the enzymes in the LUNGS are the factor which dissolves the "coating which hides"... and when that happens, after a pre-determined time, the drug/poison/anthrax then gets activated.
What that does is HIDE that an initial attack has happened. First responders, officials, the military and security forces don't know they have been hit. Civilians wouldn't know that they have been hit..
This reminds me of "binary" nerve gas agents, which are crude (yet sophisticated), which remain stable, until in the weapon, the two key chemicals combine, making the deadly nerve agent.
Nano or micro-encapsulation appears to be what the "mindset" of such WMD developers seems to be. Insidious and horrendous in its scope.. Doesn't take a biological bug or virus then to be a weapon when all the technology is relatively off-the-shelf..
Remember the searches for Saddam's mobile anthrax growing tanks? That may actually have been a gross mis-direction, trying to get MSM to look away from the micro-encapsulation methods... Maybe it's being leaked that the W-18 is hitting the world by MSM?
The technique discussed in the PDF shows that drug particles the size of large viruses can be created - with the capability of penetrating normal protective barriers.. Cells can be easily penetrated with a nano-particle of that size, which has been perfectly SHIELDED and ENCAPSULATED, hiding from detection even from the body's immune system.. After a length of time, enzymes strip the coating off, and the drug is released..
There is data appearing also, that the hiding/shielding coating breakdown doesn't have to be a body enzyme. It could be a sprayed binary agent, which if present, at that point the encapsulated drug, or toxin/poison is released.. Laying in wait insidiously..
My feeling with the "chemtrails" social media wildfire - such has been a TEST in the social media to gauge how people will react if and when they realize exactly how WMD's have/may have been released.. The technology apparently and the substances have been available, probably in most likelihood stockpiled.. The W-18 caches "discoveries" make that clear.. Whether or not the delivery systems' packaging has been utilized, remains to be determined.. nano-sized w-18, encapsulated with a time release coating can bring nations, militaries to their knees as they keel over taking a last gasp, before breathing stops..
Being worried about who has the next NUKE, or orbiting satellite with a hidden nuke on board, ready to light up an EMP (Electromagnetic Pulse) in some ways covers the bases of the dramatic infrastructure damaging warfare methods.. The LIFE destroying methods, indiscriminately laying in wait for ANY breathing creature to inhale, a chemical destruction... that is insidious planet changing war..
Images:
http://ee_ce_img.s3.amazonaws.com/ca...05_400_562.jpg
http://www.nature.com/nnano/journal/...2015.61-f1.jpg
This last image shows the encapsulated substance - in other words, this technique isn't speculation.
http://patentimages.storage.googleap...729-D00002.png
Question is has the W-18 been micro-encapsulated and turned fully in to an insidious WMD?
references:
Link-1 - existing 'known' agents adaptable for micro-encapsulation
Patent for micro-encapsulation WMD agents - (Link)
Brief Over-View - including micro-encapsulation
PS - the Reference links articles ARE fascinating and very detailed, and probably will contain a LOT of information that the reader will not have realized before. WELL worth reading them..
Re: W-18 is hitting the Streets - a high alert danger?
The above post points out "hiding in plain sight" issues.. Folks who just touch on older concepts, naive concepts really, that whence a nerve agent "attack" has happened, rapidly, over time, the air will have an evaporative cloud which will disperse and that's that for the "chemical attack".. that the nerve-gas degrades.. BUT
Pointed out above that post in #18 (previous page), the NIOSH (First responders action plan manual), simple decontamination.. water and strong lye-soap/detergent.. existing decontamination as well as antidotes don't exist for W-18.. Encapsulated W-18 would not normally degrade and may have an indefinite, large shelf life. (nor degrade in the wild).
Micro-encapsulated nano-sized toxins, like W-18 can resist detection, and can resist normal decontamination. Selective hazmat suit erosion coatings can allow for penetration of the conventionally used shielding barriers which the military, and civilians, and first responders are using. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4073128/ - 4.3.1. Penetration of CWA through Isolation Barriers)
The ISSUE with W-18 is that it is not scheduled, not regulated, not classified as a WMD (YET) and it is highly dangerous, and can have aerosol dispersive characteristics.
Using it as a recreational drug obviously isn't what the end intent of WMD developer's is.
Micro-encapsulation, binary micro-encapsulation, the first layer a delayed response coating.. The second layer, the protective hazmat suit penetrator coating, the third the coating which dissolves in the lungs by natural enzymes.. This stuff ISN'T talked about. One has to dig for the documents which do exist on the web. Technically what has been described makes sense. If such has been developed and stockpiled, how would it be classified, if at all, as the "dangerous key substance W-18" is available and in the "wild", unscheduled, unregulated and with instructions in patents how to make.. Delivery vehicles, such as drones, aerosol sprays..
Who needs a ricin micro-pellet "Umbrella", or reactor made Polonium when that W-18 stuff may have been fully developed, and distributed into sleeper cells?
------------------
Q: Does the technology exist to allow for a spray can, say 3.4 ounces (size as legally allowed by TSA) to have its spray remotely initiated? Jan 2015 this design surfaced (one of many!), designed to be attached to a heavy flyer long flight drone:
BTW, in a 3.4 fluid ounce TSA LEGAL spraycan, assuming 2 ounces of liquified (emulsified, but not micro-encapsulated) W-18 is contained, how many lethal doses would be able to be "sprayed" by such a configuration?
doing the math, assuming a non-encapsulated W-18 but with 2 ounces plus solvent within an aerosol (hobby grade off the shelf refillable spraycan), 2 ounces solid W-18 plus 1 ounce solvent plus remainder "pressurized" propellant.. 56 grams W-18 divided by .0001 (lethal dose 100 micrograms) = 560,000 lethal doses per "flight" (per TSA legal sized transportable spraycan).
That is concerning.. THAT is "Spraying" by a drone -It seems to me IMHO, looking at those "dots" connecting what may be the most likely (relatively low ground based spraying exists) that there is no need to be "chemtrail" fascinated looking far up in the sky, when ALL the tech, all the chemistry, and all the terrorists apparently do exist for low altitude activity.. Looking at major conspiratorial programs costing billions of bux to implement, flown by "thems".. what ACTUALLY may be happening could be way simpler. We may be overlooking something happening right infront of our faces.
Reference: Commercial grade "Made in China" spraying drones link
Re: W-18 is hitting the Streets - a high alert danger?
Understanding the definition of WMD (a weapon capable of destroying the masses, one definition)
Early on, it was realized that a strategically detonated nuclear device placed on an intercontinental ballistic missile, ICBM, certainly could become a device capable of harming/killing and destroying many people, cities, government facilities, banks... Nuclear weapons "threats" were used to intimidate rival countries.
At one point chemicals and biologicals (bacteria, viruses, bio-regulators) were placed into that category, and the term NBC (nuclear biological chemical) was adopted. DTRA came into formation as an agency dedicated to Mitigating (controlling and removing) major threats to the military.
Quote:
Presidential Decision Directives (PDDs) issued by President Clinton, PDD–39
on “U.S. Policy on Counterterrorism”
This included a section that clearly equated WMD with NBC:
Weapons of Mass Destruction
The United States shall give the highest priority to developing effective capabilities to detect, prevent, defeat and manage the consequences of nuclear, biological or chemical (NBC) materials or weapons use by terrorists.
The acquisition of weapons of mass destruction by a terrorist group is unacceptable.
That is the focus to deal with items which may be used by terrorists to use anything, which can create the most harm to the most amount of people and infrastructures and military.
The Federal Death Penalty Act of 1994, enacted as part of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 (H.R. 3355, Pub. L. 103–322), allowed Federal courts to impose a death sentence for the commission of nearly 60 different crimes, including killing someone through use of a WMD.
The amount of MASS deaths was defined:
One agency developed the criteria—the Department of Health and Human Services considered 1,000 casualties the threshold for a “mass casualty” event.
Official DOD definition for “mass casualties”: Any large number of casualties produced in a relatively short period of time, usually as the result of a single incident such as a military aircraft accident, hurricane, flood, earthquake, or armed attack that exceeds local logistic support capabilities..
The building and or testing of such a drone containing W-18 would be considered the assembly of a "diabolical device". Sabotaging an aircraft with attack/hacking software could be classed as a "diabolical act", and the hacked aircraft as a diabolical device.
Reference: Dr. W. Seth Carus is a Distinguished Research Professor and the Deputy Director in the Center for Study of Weapons of Mass Destruction at the National Defense University (NDU). He was commissioned by DTRA in January 2005 to come up with the most consistent definition of the WMD and to discuss what is the WMD issue. He published an excellent report available HERE which was used to provide the highlights in this post.
W-18 is a substantial threat. Terroristic use of that substance in a myriad of application/dispensing methods is the problem. Isolating, detecting, and mitigation and remediation of attacks is needed. DTRA, HSA, FBI holds the potential to bring together a special group capable of dealing with the situation.. In the past, inter-agency failure to communicate and share solutions has been an issue.. DTRA has served as the recent oversight group capable of accomplishing interagency cooperation.
Understanding the W-18 substance, where it is being made, who is distributing, where is its end destination are the prime questions to be asked. Coming up with proper methods to detect, in the sub-microgram amounts, of the raw substance is needed, as is a similar detection method to locate/detect sub-microgram encapsulated W-18.
Developing ways to protect and decontaminate without dispersing the substance in the environment IS needed.
Re: W-18 is hitting the Streets - a high alert danger?
My God, can you imagine the controls that must be in place in order to manufacture and package this stuff?! How do they do it without killing themselves? Will we soon find the wholesale buyers dead in a hotel room surrounded by the dust? Sounds like a nightmare come awake.
Re: W-18 is hitting the Streets - a high alert danger?
Hmmm ... might work nicely for a "fake" second coming psyop ... substance sprayed over major cities, most people get the best euphoric "high" they've never even been able to imagine, most die, you blast all over the media that the "second coming" has occurred, those who are dead were "raptured" - those who survived were "rejected" by God and form the basis for the new easy to control sheep (as they will be in such a fearful and guilt ridden state, control over them will be easy), that will make up the "cattle" so to speak, for the now population reduced NWO. Do this right as WWIII (or alien invasion) officially, so that it really messes people up with fear ...
Meh, I don't know ... sounds like an awful lot of work ...
Re: W-18 is hitting the Streets - a high alert danger?
Could exposure to W-18 been a contributing factor in the death of Prince?
Prince Died From Fentanyl Overdose, According To Medical Examiner Report
Re: W-18 is hitting the Streets - a high alert danger?
W-18 kill strength is so intense for such a small dose (it's 100X stronger than Fentanyl), and it's "signature" for analysis equipment to detect a lethal dose is so minuscule, so weak, the equipment would have to know what to look for as well.
Was W-18 in the search database?
If one is addicted to opiates, or the synthetic opioids, would one be tempted to try stronger and stronger substances? It is reported that the brain's receptors will "deaden" requiring more and more intense opiates or opioids to produce the same "high" or relief.. Fentanyl it is reported would be the "drug of choice" when the weaker opioids are not "doing the job". Was Prince knowingly using Fentanyl? Would he have tried a "stronger" (claimed) type of street substance? Fentanyl laced with W-18?
@shaberon in post #15 above suggests that a 'user' may indeed be tempted to try a stronger form.
Quote:
@shaberon: "Fentanyl has long been a user's favorite. But that's true that many of them have no way to know what they're really using, and a moose painkiller probably sounds really good. "
Apparently there is only ONE company in the US who is making licensed W-18 for Forensics' database calibration. LINK (Cayman Chemical), in Ann Arbor, Michigan.
It is a good suggestion for Forensics to take a look to see in their samples if W-18 can be detected in any street Fentanyl going around. If so, there would be a more dangerous problem than any street Fentanyl making the rounds.
If such was the case, where was it obtained? If someone was 'legally' prescribing Fentanyl for Prince, that would be I think a criminal situation. Taking too much or mixing that with other substances could push one over the edge, and breathing would most likely stop.
"The laced Fentanyl", if again that is the case, interesting thought.. If there was evidence of Fentanyl residue with Prince that could be tested.. But they need that calibration signature which I believe most likely they would not have in their data-base (it is just too unusual a substance).
Re: W-18 is hitting the Streets - a high alert danger?
Quote:
Posted by
Bob
"The laced Fentanyl", if again that is the case, interesting thought.. If there was evidence of Fentanyl residue with Prince that could be tested.. But they need that calibration signature which I believe most likely they would not have in their data-base (it is just too unusual a substance).
This a bit off topic but while reading your post, Bob, I had a thought....
The people that have the most advanced grasp of various scientific disciplines are some of the most dangerous people on the planet, especially if they use their knowledge for destructive purposes.
The things they could do with the right resources is almost unimaginable to me.
Makes me think there is a powerful cloak and dagger going on well hidden from most people.
Re: W-18 is hitting the Streets - a high alert danger?
I don't think off topic.. I was reading today a list of the 1000X stronger than morphine opioids seeing how much development has been going on. And I think about the WMD's. I just can't fathom that these days anyone would spend so much money on nuclear devices to create a big bang and flash, where if the object is to harm people, create terror, en-masse, these types of substances are right up in there in the weapons of mass destruction category, "chemical" in the NBC designation.
It seems to me the detection database is critical for these types of things. There are "artificial noses", basically molecule sensing electronic chips, programmed to recognize certain molecules and give a heads up, if such has been deployed - (see http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA502856 and https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0819083217.htm) Both articles describe how lame their sensor systems are for substances which are lethal in the sub-microgram ranges..
A "drug detection dog" would most likely die coming in contact with minute traces of such substances, the "w" series of synthetic opioids..
I was looking at @Pray Peace's post in Future predictions - link: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1073706 where they were suggesting that after Israel destroys Damascus, that there would be a retaliatory strike on Manhattan, of what I read there seems to be a Nuclear Device.
Quote:
May 2017 – In response to Israel's actions against Damascus, a retaliatory nuclear “Event X” terrorist attack in Manhattan kills tens of thousands of Americans, as the United States is believed by the Muslim world to be complicit in the attack on Damascus.
The more I look at Homeland coastal security, container security, there are so many protection systems in place to detect any rogue or fugitive nuclear particles (i.e. hot bomb or dirty bomb, or isotopes), such would be flagged before anything nuclear ever got into Manhattan..
However, a small fleet of drones, hobbiest drones at that, equipment added such as a spray can with some W-18, and one has the equivalent of a large scale nuclear device going off in Manhattan, as far as how deadly it would be to all life that breaths. What would the drones cost, maybe 5000$ (US) total? what would a pound or two of W-18 cost delivered from China and shipped in inside of Shaving Cream containers? Or Body Powder, all within the TSA limits for containers that are legal to transport on commercial aircraft in personal baggage.
I look at the sensor systems that exist for detecting, and they are non-existent for the detection of such minute quantities. I look at the deterrents to bring down hobbiest drones flying, and the FAA testing of such, and DARPA testing of such systems destroy also WLAN's and cellphones at the same time that they are deployed.. How many false alarms? How soon before the public is so outraged at having their equipment destroyed during HSA or FAA or DARPA or other "DRONE CONTROL" agencies make it impossible to have a cellphone in a city? Or by or near or in an airport?
The system which is setup, that is allowing the mindset of terror, that we have to have them and us, is at fault. That polarity bias brings into reality such weapons, and no doubt they will become more insidious. We talk about conspiracy, maybe we should talk about solving the separateness and borders, the them and us stuff, and then if the groups will work together they will ferret out the whackjobs who are trying to be the destabilizers of society and groups..
I dunno, I believe the W-18 issue is not solvable by normal detection means, and remediation.
Quote:
Posted by
ZooLife
Quote:
Posted by
Bob
"The laced Fentanyl", if again that is the case, interesting thought.. If there was evidence of Fentanyl residue with Prince that could be tested.. But they need that calibration signature which I believe most likely they would not have in their data-base (it is just too unusual a substance).
This a bit off topic but while reading your post, Bob, I had a thought....
The people that have the most advanced grasp of various scientific disciplines are some of the most dangerous people on the planet, especially if they use their knowledge for destructive purposes.
The things they could do with the right resources is almost unimaginable to me.
Makes me think there is a powerful cloak and dagger going on well hidden from most people.
Re: W-18 is hitting the Streets - a high alert danger?
.
I'd suggest that this could be relevant. This was published two years ago, and I've never forgotten it:
'V', the Guerrilla Economist, posts the most important information he's ever shared (4* General reveals 'The Plan')
Extract from the transcript:
The second thing that the General said is this: when they bring down the United States in 2017 – when this whole thing comes apart – they have, in key locations in the United States, bio weapons placed.
And the example that he gave me was this. If you have a 33 oz. can of Folgers coffee, and you take that can of coffee and you have this bio agent in there, and all of a sudden you walk into a busy area – let’s say an overpass in Dallas, Texas, or the George Washington Bridge right here in New York, or something similar to that, where you have a very heavy traffic area – and you just happen to open up that Folgers can.
And if the wind outside was about – let’s say about three miles per hour or so – you could have twenty million dead in three days. Twenty million dead in three days. The General went on to say that this type of bio agent will affect the water, the food, and the air. It will take three days to kill, with a near 98 percent kill ratio.
Re: W-18 is hitting the Streets - a high alert danger?
For the non-North Americans:
Re: W-18 is hitting the Streets - a high alert danger?
Quote:
Posted by
conk
My God, can you imagine the controls that must be in place in order to manufacture and package this stuff?! How do they do it without killing themselves? Will we soon find the wholesale buyers dead in a hotel room surrounded by the dust? Sounds like a nightmare come awake.
Just the gap under the door of a hotel room, with only maybe a temperature differential, and the slightest leakage, which are all normal... would be enough to kill the people in the hallway.
¤=[Post Update]=¤
Quote:
Posted by
ZooLife
Probably not, w-18 is insanely strong. Beyond 'the most potent bio-weapon' strong. One has to be crazy to even try to manufacture it in a world class controlled laboratory.
Re: W-18 is hitting the Streets - a high alert danger?
a view from the other side of the argument, so to speak. ie, more data and more cautions:
http://globalnews.ca/news/2755832/ex...-on-w-18-drug/ (June 11, 2016)
VANCOUVER – Experts are questioning widely circulated Health Canada claims that the drug W-18 is 100 times more powerful than fentanyl, or that the new arrival to the illicit-drug scene is even technically an opioid.
Dr. David Juurlink, head of pharmacology and toxicology at the Sunnybrook Health Sciences Centre in Toronto, said that while W-18 could very well be dangerous more research is needed before conclusions can be drawn about its chemical behaviour and potency.
“The main thing we know is that we don’t know very much,” Juurlink said in an interview. “It’s clearly a chemical and it does something but what exactly it does is not clear.”
What is known is that W-18 is a synthetic compound created and patented at a University of Alberta laboratory as a potential pain reliever in the late 1970s and early 1980s. It was one of 32 chemicals produced in the so-called W-series, none of which were ever produced commercially.
READ MORE: Drug traffickers playing ‘deadly game’ with counterfeit drugs containing W-18: Delta Police
As of June 1, Canada made it illegal to produce, possess, import, export or traffic W-18 after the substance was identified during several illicit-drug seizures.
Researchers looking at the chemical structure suggest the compound doesn’t bind to opioid receptors in the body the way fentanyl or other opioids do, Juurlink said.
The inventor of W-18 also disputes the claims being made about the chemical. Retired chemist Ed Knaus said that while the other compounds in the W-series behaved in some ways like opioids, that same behaviour wasn’t displayed in W-18.
“It’s always possible (that it’s an opioid) because we didn’t prove the mechanism of action,” Knaus said. He added that W-18 isn’t necessarily 10,000 more toxic or dangerous than morphine.
“The problem here is that the press and everybody extrapolates (and) people start to equate numbers,” said Knaus.
“They say that this thing is 100 times more potent than fentanyl and fentanyl is 100 times more potent than morphine, so automatically it’s 10,000. Well, we never tested fentanyl in our case.”
Knaus said he was “saddened and disturbed” that after so many years someone would exploit W-18 for use as an illicit drug.
READ MORE: Powerful street drug W-18 now banned in Canada
The B.C. Centre for Disease Control has since backtracked on information it released in January describing W-18 as an opioid 100 times more toxic than fentanyl.
“That information was what was available to us back at the end of last year, and there has since been a lot more interest and some more supposition,” said Jane Buxton, the head of the centre’s harm reduction office.
Health Canada did not respond to a request for comment, but it appears the information included in its fact sheet comes from preliminary research in the original nine-page patent application, dated Aug. 28, 1984.
That same research information was circulated by the Centre for Disease Control, said the organization’s head, Mark Tyndall.
The study used mice to test the pain-relieving activity of all the W-series compounds and the results were compared to several other drugs, including aspirin and morphine.
The research found it takes 10,000 times more morphine than W-18 to produce the same analgesic effect.
That doesn’t make the drug 10,000 times more dangerous than morphine, said Bryan Roth, a pharmacologist at the University of North Carolina.
“All this means is that if you’re a mouse … you could be given a dose of W-18 that’s 10,000 times less than a dose of morphine and you would have basically an equivalent effect,” said Roth, who is conducting research on W-18.
“It may be a dangerous drug, but we don’t know that. There’s no data out there.”
It’s prudent to be concerned about it though, given that a poorly understood compound is showing up on the illicit market, he added.
Roth raised the concern that if W-18 turns out to be toxic but not an opioid, then standard overdose-reversing agents such as naloxone would be ineffective.
Juurlink said there are plenty of other drugs to focus on that warrant the attention of police forces and regulators and doctors and end users.
“We should focus on them and spend less time catastrophizing on the issue of W-18.”
What we know about W-18
What is W-18 and where did it come from?
W-18 is a Canadian-made chemical created at the University of Alberta between 1977 and 1979 as part of a drug-design project aimed at creating a compound for pain relief. It was never produced commercially and the series was eventually shelved.
Why is it called W-18?
There were 32 compounds synthesized as part of the W-series drugs, which was named after the last name of a PhD student who conducted the research. W-18 is the 18th version in the series.
How does W-18 work?
We don’t know. While research has shown that the pain-relieving effectiveness of some other W-series compounds was reduced by naloxone, an agent that reverses opioid overdoses, no such test was ever conducted with W-18. Retired University of Alberta chemist Ed Knaus, who oversaw the creation of the W-series of drugs, says opiate-receptor binding studies weren’t a standard lab test prior to the 1980s.
Why is W-18 commonly described as 100 times more powerful than fentanyl?
As part of the 1984 patent application for W-18, one of Knaus’s grad students measured how much of each W-series chemicals it took to reduce pain and compared that to several standards, including morphine. The research found it took 10,000 times more morphine than W-18 to achieve the same pain reduction in lab mice. Other tests have found fentanyl to be 100 times more powerful than morphine, hence the conclusion that W-18 is 100 times more powerful than fentanyl. But Dr. David Juurlink, head of clinical pharmacology at Sunnybrook Hospital in Toronto, points out that a chemical needn’t be an opioid to reduce pain.
Where is W-18 banned?
Canada added W-18 to its controlled substance list as of June 1, following in the footsteps of Sweden, which outlawed the chemical in late January. The Drug Enforcement Administration in the United States is studying the compound but has yet to ban it. Health Canada says the European Union’s drug watchdog added W-18 to its list of new psychoactive substances in 2014, though that inclusion falls short of an outright ban.
Re: W-18 is hitting the Streets - a high alert danger?
Quote:
Posted by
Carmody
¤=[Post Update]=¤
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Quote:
Posted by
ZooLife
Probably not, w-18 is insanely strong. Beyond 'the most potent bio-weapon' strong. One has to be crazy to even try to manufacture it in a world class controlled laboratory.
Thank Bob and Carmody, I am clearly out of my knowledge base on W-18.
It seems there is a whole Black Ops dedicated to mass destruction without destroying the infrastructure. Testing the effectiveness of these products helps to advances the future application of said products as well as to combat them. It's a two edged sword.
Re: W-18 is hitting the Streets - a high alert danger?
Interesting dialog to see how the "authorities" are trying to hide the danger.. And the spin starts.
The toxicity tho, the kill ability with microscopic doses is notably important; the chemists in the field apparently know not to come near it.
Who in their right mind is going to 'test it on humans' when the mouse models are adequate.
It is stated also quite clearly that "designer drugs are often tested by the drug community and reported in drug forums, the lethality, or not and the doses that people have taken before they permanently were impaired or dead". (Cayman publication, "Forensics").
However, WMD developers it just seems know quite well, and are aware and have been for quite some time, the effectiveness of chemical agents. Toxicity, dose levels for death or incapacitation.
Seeing the downplay is certainly well worth watching especially those special interests going for the downplay.
What else besides the "W" series is out there with an even stronger kill rate?
I agree with the General's statement that Bill brought up (Post # 31 above), a coffee can sized amount for 20,000,000 deaths in 3 days seems very logical talking about a chemical biological agent.
The W-18 death rate projection is double that amount according to the lethality projection (40,000,000 deaths). Well within the General's observation of "effectiveness" of kill.
Measuring a chemical's effectiveness in killing (stopping breathing which does not restart), using commonly known opiates or opioids (ie. morphine or fentanyl) is to come up with a measure of interpretation, a "ruler" so to speak; like what else do we know which stops breathing and induces pain suppression? Ah Morphine, or Fentanyl (stronger).. and that becomes the "measure" to try to get pharmacologists, and forensics to try to UNDERSTAND what and why a substance is dangerous. Like dohh.. simple logic.
The gyration spin it seems to me is what is noteworthy. Arguing a semantic trying to poo poo standardly accepted mouse studies about lethality, and level of unconsciousness induced, hmm.
However the General was talking about a biological agent a "bug" a plague, not a chemical. It takes some sophistication to grow a bug, purify it and distribute it. W-18 was made in a college with a grad student and a couple prof's. No exotic germ warfare facility was needed for making such a highly concentrated lethal agent, that such a small dose will kill. WMD is the logic, and that is what is being downplayed it seems to me.
But this point is quite valid, the "spin factor", the signature for the "thing" is not known what is killing people:
Quote:
The General went on to say that the weapon signature will not be known. In other words, if there is a lab that chooses to research the virulent agents – what its protein makeup is and how to kill it or even identify it properly – it would be impossible.
In other words, the autopsies will be impossible to do.
What does that mean, folks? It means complete plausible deniability for the parties involved. The government will have complete plausible deniability.
It's been said the naloxone doesn't clear the opiate receptors if W-18 is present.. But it has the skeletal structure resembling an opioid. Enough to cause the sedation/suppression of breathing, and unconsciousness.. but has no antidote, no standard "opioid" antidote will clear it.
So it is a chemical without an antidote, and it stops respiration at the lethal dose. Microscopic doses, and it qualifies as a substance that can be a WMD (described in a previous post definition of WMD above).
Arguing if it takes 1/6 the size of a grain of salt to kill one, or 2/6ths the size of a grain of salt is noise. That such substances are able to be shipped into countries internationally, and have the WMD use (there is no legit drug use such as equating to Fentanyl an opioid), that is the concern, not the sidetrack about 10000 times more strength (or not) than morphine or any other one-ups man ship distractions. It kills in microscopic doses. That is the issue. It is easily transportable, that is the issue, it apparently is easy to manufacture, that is the issue.
It stops breathing, that leads to death. It matches the category of large animal sedation substances, able to knock them out. (but it doesn't have a reversion antidote). It is small and easily transportable for lethal dose presentation. Large caches of it have been discovered (also pointed out in the thread).
Just watching the backpeddaling and where it's coming from. And why.
Re: W-18 is hitting the Streets - a high alert danger?
A few posts back (#23 this page and earlier on page 1) it was mentioned that probably drones would be used to deploy such a WMD substance. And shortly thereafter FAA and DARPA start testing "drone killer" "ray guns" (linear array high powered microwave) to disable the communications system, thereby causing small consumer drones to crash safely. The publication noted that "drones near commercial airports are illegal and dangerous when near the flight path, or near airliners, or other commercial aircraft" .. they had not discussed the problems with drones interfering with civilian aircraft in the Military and Aerospace article.
And then the military at China-Lake facility in California for the month of June 2016 is testing GPS jamming systems that can take out a GPS as far as the Colorado border to the east, Idaho to the north, and Mexico to the south, not to mention interfering with GPS in large areas in California..
And it was suggested that there are drones which will use sophisticated navigation circuitry, which can even bypass GPS and communications to a "pilot".. intelligent civilian grade drones. And these drones have sophisticated collision avoidance systems, to allow it to fly a path and move away from any obstacles.. A fleet of those drones outfitted with WMD materials would be a formidable force, virtually unstoppable by the existing systems being tested and deployed against "toy-like drones".
This is one of those birds (image from Intelligent Aerospace journal):
http://www.eagleeyesys.com/
.. seems the arms race goes on, with one group out-engineering the other group
Re: W-18 is hitting the Streets - a high alert danger?
CarFentanil - same family, the Cape Buffalo/Elephant tranquilizer
Above, Members of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police go through a decontamination procedure in Vancouver, British Columbia, in June 2016 after intercepting a package containing approximately one kilogram (2.2 pounds) of the opioid carfentanil imported from China. (Royal Canadian Mounted Police via AP
A substance used to tranquilize elephants that is 100 times more potent than the drug that killed Prince is hitting the Washington suburbs, adding the region to a growing list of communities nationwide reporting fatal overdoses linked to the exotic and toxic sedative.
Three cases out of Anne Arundel and Frederick counties this month mark the first carfentanil-related fatalities in Maryland. In the US, States reporting carfentanil-related fatalities, included Illinois, Colorado, Wisconsin and Minnesota.
Quote:
Hamilton County, which includes Cincinnati and nearly 50 law enforcement agencies, experienced an average of 50 to 70 reported overdoses a week in early 2016 and four or five deaths, Synan said. One month after law enforcement learned carfentanil had hit the county, overdoses skyrocketed with about 175 to 200 calls in a single week in August. Four of those users died.
"[..] medical examiners don’t have the tools to detect it in autopsies.. "
"[..] 10,000 times more powerful than morphine.. "
About two milligrams of fentanyl —about what comes out with a single jiggle of a salt shaker — is considered lethal. Carfentanil is 100 times stronger. Carfentanil and fentanyl, the substance found in music legend Prince’s body when he died last year, has been manufactured mostly in China.
W-18 is deadlier than that.. again, coming out of China.
Quote:
Because the drug can be absorbed through the skin, police and lab workers need to take strict precautions against exposure, even from a puff escaping a bag being resealed, said Scott Maye, the chemistry program manager for the Virginia Department of Forensic Sciences.
“Dogs can get a whiff of it, and it can be fatal,” Maye said, adding that lab workers are offered masks and gloves, and testing equipment is stored in locked safes.
Many police departments have stopped testing for heroin at crime scenes because the possible presence of carfentanil makes it too risky.
The volume of carfentanil and fentanyl overdose calls is also overwhelming police and first responders, who are being diverted from other calls.
“We on the front lines are struggling every day to keep people alive..”
Re: W-18 is hitting the Streets - a high alert danger?
Carfentanil Reversal
Essential speed of getting to the unconscious person, to start manual resuscitation of breathing is needed, and/or cardiac manual stimulation to keep oxygenated blood moving through the brain and organs.
The standard substance provided to ParaMedics is Naloxone intramuscular auto-injector. That has been show to not be effective with CarFentanil doses which are potentially lethal.
Intranasal naloxone has been shown to be as safe and effective as IV administration for treatment of opioid overdose in humans except for reversing CarFentanil anesthesia. (ref: Barton ED, Ramos J, Colwell C, Benson J, Baily J, Dunn W. Intranasal administration of naloxone by paramedics. Prehosp Emerg Care. 2002;6:54–58. [PubMed] [Ref list] )
HOWEVER, there appears to be HOPE to be able to reverse carfentanil in humans, although the drugs being used are strictly for veterinary use only.
From: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2857429/
Naltrexone has been shown to be effective for reversal of a number of potent opioid drugs in wild and captive animals including carfentanil and etorphine by a variety of routes including SQ, IM, and IV . Definitions: SQ subcutaneous injection, IM intramuscular, IV intravenously.
"To our knowledge, this is the first report of the effective use of naltrexone or atipamezole administered IN for reversal of immobilization drugs. (definition IN, Intra-Nasal Spray)
The large variability in individual drug response in this study could potentially be reduced through the use of an atomizer to distribute the drug more evenly across the nasal mucosa.
Chitosan solutions (34) that increase the bioavailability of intranasally administered drug could also be used to enhance absorption.
Other commonly used alpha-2 reversal agents for wildlife immobilization that are routinely administered IV, such as yohimbine and tolazoline could potentially be administered intranasally safely and effectively, but additional studies would be required. "
A spray to be carried by first responders, consisting of a sufficient dose to deal with typical over-dose of carbfentanil of Naltrexone could save lives.
Considering the large quantities of contaminated Heroin hitting the streets, getting this Naltrexone Intra-Nasal product accepted for compassionate Human use NOW is essential.
Naltrexone is an Opioid antagonist. Trade name: Naltrexone Hydrochloride
The use of naltrexone in humans to treat alcoholism has been reviewed. It is used in treating large heroin overdoses. It is used veterinarianly to reverse carfentanil effects.
When there are extremes of opioids in the system, a very large histamine reaction could occur, and shock, swelling of the airway could occur. Possibly then a reversal spray for first responders would then consist of the appropriate histamine blocker PLUS Naltrexone hydrochloride in a normal saline solution.
This may save many lives. Research and compassionate use and development of the product should proceed post haste.
reference research article:
https://www.drugs.com/pro/naltrexone.html
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2857429/
Re: W-18 is hitting the Streets - a high alert danger?
:bump:
See this thread also - Canada taking steps to deal with opioids
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1244893
