Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

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Posted by wegge

Yes but I think you can witness a murder and say "heee you badass murder I hate you for doing that" or you can just witness because I think in the moment of judgement you´re giving up your power (or whatever)

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... therefore:

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Who or what is doing the perceiving?

What exactly is being perceived?

Where exactly is it perceived to be coming from?

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could you give examples for each question?
thank you!

I was a staff member and Professional Dianetics auditor for over five years. Dianetics seemed a practical way for reduction of engrams and puts one on the road to road to awakening. I have seen people with great results with this auditing. However once your'e in then comes Scientology it was a little too squirelly for me. I never had any problems from anyone. As an ex staffer I would be glad to answer any questions.

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Posted by wegge

could you give examples for each question?
thank you!

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Sorry for the delay in answering...


1) Is it YOU perceiving directly or via something/someone else? Is it someone else doing the perceiving and relaying/filtering it?

2) Is it an object? A projection from an external source (screen)? A manifestation of one's belief? An illusion?

3) Is that perception being a directed intention from an external source? From one's own memory? Someone else's memory? From an entity? From an automaticity (machine)? From an AI?

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Posted by Bill Ryan

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Hubbard (LRH) was clearly a flawed man -- and many great people are. I am not qualified to judge him as a person or as a family man: only assess his legacy. My consideration of his legacy does not include the Church itself, which grew to became a huge aberration.
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:)

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I think Hubbard comments on his "flawedness" here:

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OT's get peculiar. They get fitful. They get moody. They can get keyed in, and all they could do about it was to subdue the errant thetan, turn a sleep-light on him, tell him to get more solid, and take him down to the hospital. "I know. I was there. I was the guy they did it to."

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Taped Lecture July 9 1963, SHSBC 281, The Free Being.

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Posted by cuitlahuac

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Posted by Bill Ryan

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Hubbard (LRH) was clearly a flawed man -- and many great people are. I am not qualified to judge him as a person or as a family man: only assess his legacy. My consideration of his legacy does not include the Church itself, which grew to became a huge aberration.
...

:)

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I think Hubbard comments on his "flawedness" here:

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OT's get peculiar. They get fitful. They get moody. They can get keyed in, and all they could do about it was to subdue the errant thetan, turn a sleep-light on him, tell him to get more solid, and take him down to the hospital. "I know. I was there. I was the guy they did it to."

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Taped Lecture July 9 1963, SHSBC 281, The Free Being.

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I think part of what you are describing about Hubbard was because he was developing these processes and using them on himself, which he said later you really shouldn't do. Without a professional auditor you could get yourself into deep S#%T and then have no way of getting yourself out of it. Little things like going insane and the like. Some of his talks describe things like what was quoted above the bad things that happened to him during development. I remember him saying he was his own guinea pig, experimenting on himself.

I think LRH was actually a good guy and had hopes of helping the entire planet, Scientology has gotten some bad press even some of is undeserved. Yes since Hubbard has gone it has turned into a gigantic turd mostly because of trying to make a profit, some have spent a million dollars or more trying to get up the chart. Dianetics or Book One seemed to have more benefits than Scientology processing at least thats my opinion.

Hubbard said in one of his talks during Pres. Kennedys administration that the PTB approached him about the possibility of using Black Dianetics [installing engrams into ones mind] and he refused. It was said that the PTB closed the DC org and seized every scrap of paper in the building. Now why would the gov want to program people?

Anyway all the friends I had in Scientology had good intention and sincerely wanted to improve the world. So don't judge them too harshly.

Former Scientology staffer and now Avalonian......Grizz

Ubi dubium ibi libertas

Well written words, Bill. I studied Dianetics back in the 70's. Like all books, we can always extract something that is useful and apply it to our lives, as I did with this one. I had no problem with Dianetics, nor do I have a problem with any material that serves to help man find his way to freedom. The problem with creating cohesive groups behind ideas is that they all become distorted and somewhat coercive over time. I think it's imperative that people keep an independence of mind and follow the dictates of logic and rationality, with an eye toward skepticism. It is very easy for seekers to become prey to religious or metaphysical persuasions whose thrones, much of time, are occupied by undeveloped and unenlightened personalities.

Mel Fabregas has just interviewed an expert on present day Scientology, Tony Ortega: Scientology: Behind the Gutter - Behind the Cult

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Posted by Grizz Griswold

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Posted by cuitlahuac

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OT's get peculiar. They get fitful. They get moody. They can get keyed in, and all they could do about it was to subdue the errant thetan, turn a sleep-light on him, tell him to get more solid, and take him down to the hospital. "I know. I was there. I was the guy they did it to."

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Taped Lecture July 9 1963, SHSBC 281, The Free Being.

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I think part of what you are describing about Hubbard was because he was developing these processes and using them on himself, which he said later you really shouldn't do. Without a professional auditor you could get yourself into deep S#%T and then have no way of getting yourself out of it. Little things like going insane and the like. Some of his talks describe things like what was quoted above the bad things that happened to him during development. I remember him saying he was his own guinea pig, experimenting on himself.

I think LRH was actually a good guy and had hopes of helping the entire planet, Scientology has gotten some bad press even some of is undeserved. Yes since Hubbard has gone it has turned into a gigantic turd mostly because of trying to make a profit, some have spent a million dollars or more trying to get up the chart. Dianetics or Book One seemed to have more benefits than Scientology processing at least thats my opinion.

Hubbard said in one of his talks during Pres. Kennedys administration that the PTB approached him about the possibility of using Black Dianetics [installing engrams into ones mind] and he refused. It was said that the PTB closed the DC org and seized every scrap of paper in the building. Now why would the gov want to program people?

Anyway all the friends I had in Scientology had good intention and sincerely wanted to improve the world. So don't judge them too harshly.

Former Scientology staffer and now Avalonian......Grizz

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I can't believe this, but I found a non edited part of that tape and it has a lot more material on it. Here is the reference:

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OTs get peculiar. They get fitful. They get moody. I remember one time about twelve trillion years ago. It was, some comedian on a stage, vast theater, pulled a gag about create and that sort of thing, and made a wisecrack of one kind or
another. An OT had to be subdued-he was up in the box, alongside the royal box, and he had to be subdued, one way or the other, but not till after he had torn down all the curtains and knocked down a four or five hundred-ton chandelier on the assembled meat-body multitude. Why?. It just keyed him in. What could they do about it? Turn a sleep light on him and tell him to get solid and take him down to the hospital. That was their total—total ability to put this boy back together again. I consider it fascinating; I know-I was there. I was the guy they did it to.

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http://www.matrixfiles.com/Scientolo...Free_Being.pdf

[QUOTE=cuitlahuac;818758]
I think Hubbard comments on his "flawedness" here:

Quote OT's get peculiar. They get fitful. They get moody. They can get keyed in, and all they could do about it was to subdue the errant thetan, turn a sleep-light on him, tell him to get more solid, and take him down to the hospital. "I know. I was there. I was the guy they did it to."
Taped Lecture July 9 1963, SHSBC 281, The Free Being.


I can't believe this, but I found a non edited part of that tape and it has a lot more material on it. Here is the reference:

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OTs get peculiar. They get fitful. They get moody. I remember one time about twelve trillion years ago. It was, some comedian on a stage, vast theater, pulled a gag about create and that sort of thing, and made a wisecrack of one kind or
another. An OT had to be subdued-he was up in the box, alongside the royal box, and he had to be subdued, one way or the other, but not till after he had torn down all the curtains and knocked down a four or five hundred-ton chandelier on the assembled meat-body multitude. Why?. It just keyed him in. What could they do about it? Turn a sleep light on him and tell him to get solid and take him down to the hospital. That was their total—total ability to put this boy back together again. I consider it fascinating; I know-I was there. I was the guy they did it to.

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http://www.matrixfiles.com/Scientolo...Free_Being.pdf



I don't claim to be one who knows everything about Scientology but I was in it for quite a few years so here are some of my thoughts on it. The Saint Hill Special Briefing Course, I'm pretty sure was intended only for advanced Scientologists who had studied related materials for years. It would be very easy for anyone to take one paragraph and get it out of context. It would be like getting a book on Ocean Navigation, reading a page and then assuming I could sail the seven seas.

I believe what LRH was speaking of about was thetans/Ot's/spirit ...our infinite selves existing multi-dimensionally and sometimes making a mess of things. I always wondered myself why an infinite being would play the game of limitation by becoming a physical body if it were completely satisfied where it was at. I don't know maybe our infinite selves become bored too.:bored::bored::bored::bored::bored::bored::bored::bored::bored:
I suggest at least reading the entire link slowly with an open mind and I think that you will find He was using Himself as an example in the paragraph in question. I think many here on Avalon can relate to what Hubbard is saying.

I only knew one OT, this person was a OT-7 I believe which at that time was about as high as it got anyway this person was one of the most intelligent, caring and capable people I've ever known, I have absolutely nothing but good to say about this person and still count them as a friend. I haven't seen them in years and wish them the best.

I don't personally like what Scientology has become due to trying to make a profit but suggest that a lot of it has been misinterpreted, some of it I don't agree with myself. I do feel LRH had good intentions.....Thank you so much cuitlahuac for providing the link.

I think eventually we all come to the recognition that our best guide is our own true self.....Former Scientology staffer and now Avalonian.....Grizz


Ubi dubium ibi libertas

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Posted by dpwishy

I consider my self more of a bystander at this forum, I have read for years but I prefer to stay in the background and hardly ever post. I find it very difficult to share idea's openly with people claiming to be the most open minded, and I don't just mean people here, I find this is a common trait among evolved beings everywhere. As they evolve and walk THEIR path, they think that their way is the only way and that is it. I claim this to be the death of intelligence. Once you claim you know or understand, that is a clear indication that you surely do not. That is the only thing I can say for certain. The funny thing is, you will never be called out by people that understand this. You will always be called out by those with a belief system, no matter what the B.S (belief system) is.

I see a lot of negativity through out many threads here towards this matter, I find it almost comical. People fail to forget that we all have a perspective of the "same thing". How you describe it, honor it, get there, is all going to be personal. Look at the 4 gospels, all saw the same thing yet are completely different. If I asked us all to watch the same movie and to write a paper about it, every single one would be different. We watched the same movie didn't we? And taking it even further, you would know right away readings another paper if they really saw the movie or are just making it up. It might be completely different in how its written, but you would know right away that it was written by someone who watched the movie. Given that you watched the movie also.....

For all those negative comments, the only thing that has stood out to me this whole time was. This man, L Ron, he watched the movie. It is beyond clear to anyone else who has watched the movie. And it is so close to disciplines that those who are attacking probably embrace and don't even realize! I was absolutely blown away with how much this had in common with Buddhism and the teachings of the Buddha. It was the same concepts and teachings with different words. And I am not talking watered down Buddhism, but from the original teachings.

The Buddha taught in Pali, it is now a dead language. He taught a method of meditation called Vipassana. In pali the word basically means "as things are". It is the method he used to gain liberation. In this method we do not vocalize or visualize, we observe the body as it is, not as we want it to be. What is amazing about this method is that it does not matter who you are, how much money you were born with, what shape you are in, your age, faith, creed and so. It uses sensation in the body and the breath. This is something we all have. It doesn't matter what your faith is, you can still practice vapassana. You have a body and can feel it.

The great realization of the Buddha was HOW to break free. He realized that we are stuck here because we form likes and dislikes about experiences. We have aversion and negativity for things we don't like and cling and crave for the positive things. Our soul is an accumulation of these, they are called saṅkhāra's in Pali. We are forming saṅkhāra's with almost every thought at this point, our minds have spiraled out of control and its getting to the point where we are saṅkhāra creating mashines. This makes us denser and denser.

He gave a way to live and adhere by because if you lived by that way. If would be very easy to maintain a life where you are not creating new saṅkhāra's. If you are creating new saṅkhāra's, then the old ones can not come to the surface to be processed. You have a kagillion just in this life, let alone the accumulation of all your lives saṅkhāra's.

The bhudda understood the mind and body connection and realized that if you stop creating saṅkhāra's and sat in meditation the old saṅkhāra's will start to come to the surface one by one. If we can sit there and let them arise so they can just pass away, we can process through these and clear them one by one. When we cleared out all of our saṅkhāra's, we were a liberated soul. It can take many life times to process through all of these. Some saṅkhāra's might take a second to process, others might takes years to fully let go of in meditation.

During vipassana meditations you do not move or change hand positions for the full sitting. I sit for an hour at a time. Once you sit and choose your position, it must be kept fully for the full sitting. At first this seems insane and impossible but this is where the teaching of the Buddha is so special. He taught us that these sensations in the body are not really pain, they are saṅkhāra's rising to the surface. This becomes clear to someone who uses vipassana regularly. At first you think that the sensation in your back or your leg is from how you are sitting. Seems logical. But if you sit and do not move, the sensation will leave and go to another spot completely. If it was because of how you were sitting, why did it change if you didn't move? As you progress these sensations will no longer be just feelings in your body, they will be accompanied by memories and experiences.

By letting these sensations come to the surface and not react, only experience them, we can let them rise and pass away. Thus processing through our stored database of saṅkhāra's. These might be things we formed many lives ago, or 5 minutes ago when we said "oh i wish I had some pie". Even the bliss in meditation is a trap. If the hour meditation is over and you dont get up because you are in the bliss, you are just creating saṅkhāra's on the positive spectrum. As you are clinging and craving for the experience of bliss. Same for the opposite. If your back is hurting and when the hour meditation ends you jump up as fast as you can, you have adversion and negativity for the experiene. You are creating saṅkhāra's but on the negative end. It is important to be able to experience without attachment.

To me, what the Buddha taught, what I just explained, is exactly what L ron is saying and teaching but in a slightly different way and terms. Instead of self auditing that is done with vipassana, it is done with a partner in Scientology. This whole experience lately learning about what L ron really taught has opened my eyes. I was completely blown away. Here is a man who I completely blew off and thought was insane, yet teaches a method and discipline that is almost identical to the one I practiced. That I bet a lot who bash Scientology practice and don't even realize they are practicing the same art just taught by two different teachers who had two different perspectives of the same thing. How silly. I was just misinformed. I can see why this method of processing would be effective in a western culture. Each discipline is catering to its audience respectively to give the best results. We always point fingers at things that are different yet fail to realize that at the core, it was actually the same thing. How human of us, where there is one, were bound to divide it right in two.....

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+1 Worth quoting!

I will risk creating one more saṅkhāra here as I feel compelled to say a few words about the bolded part.

Understanding is an evolution that grows with a person. I feel that one should always be willing to modify or even discart flawed understandings as a part of growth when new experiences presents such an opportunity. Discussing an idea or even challenging it, is sometimes necessary for growth, at least up to a certain point when one learns to think for them-self. In a way, the insistence of claiming to know or understand is a measure of resistance one has towards their own growth.

That said, I find that I sometimes seek validation from other who don't necessarily share the same basis or reference points. I often end up expanding my own understandings in these cases, and that is why I engage people in discussions.

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As they evolve and walk THEIR path, they think that their way is the only way and that is it.

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As they involve and walk their path from their Guru, Baba, Founder etc. they think that their way is the only way and that is it.

its risky to swap from one Beliefsystem to another in the course of instruction. The harddisk is formatted. You had to get the basics in. You had to get a working way.

when they are at home they can see all the ways going up to the mountain

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Posted by gralsfighter

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As they evolve and walk THEIR path, they think that their way is the only way and that is it.

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As they involve and walk their path from their Guru, Baba, Founder etc. they think that their way is the only way and that is it.

its risky to swap from one Beliefsystem to another in the course of instruction. The harddisk is formatted. You had to get the basics in. You had to get a working way.

when they are at home they can see all the ways going up to the mountain

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When i was in Scientology a few years ago, i would mention things like' "you know Scientology
and Buddism and even A Course in Miracles seem to be almost the same" but i was told by the Executive Director and rather
harshly no it's not the same and if you screw around with that stuff you'll mess up your case.....

i was told as a staff member you use the tech exactly only as it is or you can get your case or the
people you audit into deep dodo.....now here on Avalon iv'e read some of Bill Ryans post and the techniques
he gets benefit from seem to be totally different....i suspected this was true even as the E.D. was trying
to keep me in line.

Your last sentence....when they are at home they can see all the ways going up to the mountain.......
i believe to be exactly true .....everything is generalized and all related.

Blessings....barry

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.....the E.D. was trying to keep me in line.

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YES, they WANT slaves with a huge amount of money . and its not okay that they force on you what you should do by yourself in a more intelligent way.

Its the same in every beliefsystem.
one cant erase an engramm when he is banning a damon . That would blew is secure space away.
you had to do Tai Chi exercises in a very perfect way. you can not mix it with skiing exercises.

Sometimes you had to open a session with "hey, you bloody motherf..... How are you today?" And you have his attention, his ARC, his respect and his willingness to get the job done.
There you follow the basics and not the matrix.

LOL thats may beliefsystem....

gralsfighter

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Posted by gralsfighter

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.....the E.D. was trying to keep me in line.

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YES, they WANT slaves with a huge amount of money . and its not okay that they force on you what you should do by yourself in a more intelligent way.

Its the same in every beliefsystem.
one cant erase an engramm when he is banning a damon . That would blew is secure space away.
you had to do Tai Chi exercises in a very perfect way. you can not mix it with skiing exercises.

Sometimes you had to open a session with "hey, you bloody motherf..... How are you today?" And you have his attention, his ARC, his respect and his willingness to get the job done.
There you follow the basics and not the matrix.

LOL thats may beliefsystem....

gralsfighter

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Scientology certainly does have it's own belief system it's own construct.......this is the only way, belief.

Recently i sent a PM to Bill Ryan because i thought he was doing self auditing...Because we were taught it can't
be done...you would wind up in a mental institution, ruin your case.

What Bill told me was something I'd never heard of before....sometimes past lives remembrances were
coming to him spontaneously...from what i was told as a staff member, this was impossible.
Well you learn something new every day don't you?.....i was relieved it wasn't all in that box they had been trying to sell me.
Maybe Bill can bring that PM over.

Best wishes

barry

The following is the procedure of the original 1950 “Dianetics, The Modern Science of Mental Health.” I recommend watching the video “How to use Dianetics” or reading at least the first chapter of the book before giving a session to someone but it is not required.

Cliff note version: The mind (not the brain) is composed of two parts. The normal, analytical mind and the reactive mind. To understand the reactive mind, I will first describe the analytical mind. You, the immortal spirit, which has had hundreds of billions of lifetimes and drives the body (similar to a human driving a car), has a mind which is basically a suitcase of pictures you collect lifetime after lifetime.

You make decisions but if you want, you can activate the mind and look at pictures you have taken in the past as experience to improve the success of the decision (but it is unnecessary since you need not recreate a picture of a cat to know what a cat is). The mind was designed to take 25 pictures per second including all perceptions including what is seen, heard, felt, thought and all other 64 plus perceptions (just because you are not aware of electro-magnetic waves around you, the mind still records their action).

The reactive mind stores these pictures when the analytical mind is turned off, fully or partially. Physical pain (and thus emotional pain) to a lesser or greater degree, turns off the analytical mind, depending on the magnitude.

This may have been designed as a survival mechanism for animals or as an enslaving mechanism for spiritual beings (long explanation, refer to the book). Nonetheless, the being has natural access to reactive mind recordings.

One person is the counselor (auditor, which means “to listen) and one is the receiver of the counseling (preclear. When a person has eliminated the stimuli-response mechanism of the reactive mind, one is considered “clear,” comparable to bodhi).

Simply follow the following procedure:

1. Assure preclear will know everything that happens. The session is done with you and your preclear seated across from each other. In the first step you assure the preclear about what will occur during the session. You can tell the preclear the following:
“We will begin the session now. You will remain aware of everything which goes on. You will able to remember everything that happens here. You can pull yourself out of anything which you get into if you don’t like it,”

2. Have the preclear close their eyes. Tell the preclear, “Close your eyes.”

3. Install the canceller. Tell the preclear, “In the future, when I utter the word ‘cancelled,’ everything I have said to you while you are in a therapy session will be cancelled and will have no force with you.” Make sue the preclear understands this.

4. Return the preclear to a period in the past. Tell the preclear you will begin by running an incident from their past that the preclear feels they can comfortably face. You can say something like: “We’re going to find as incident in your life of which you have an exact record. Then by sending you through it at the moment it happened several times, we’re going to reduce it.”

“Locate an incident of relatively recent emotional pain which you can comfortably face and tell me when you are there.”

When he/she has located one, tell them: “Go to the beginning of that incident and tell me when you are there.”

(Note: After the preclear has spent many sessions reducing emotional pain incidents, begin running relatively early physical pain incidents: “Locate an incident of relatively early physical pain which you can comfortably face and tell me when you are there.” The auditor could also just ask a general command “Locate an incident you can comfortable face and tell me when you are there”).

5. When they respond, say: “Go through the incident and say what is happening as you go along.”

6. “Go back to the beginning and go over it. Pick up whatever addition data you can contact.” If the preclear stops moving through the incident, say “Continue.”

When the preclear gets to the end the incident, ask: “Is there an earlier beginning to this incident?” If they say yes: “Move to the new beginning of the incident and tell me what is happening as you move through to the end.” If they say no, repeat 6a.

Continue to run the incident until the preclear is cheerful about.

If the preclear has run through the incident many times without any new information and they have not become cheerful about the incident, ask “Is there an earlier, similar incident?” If they say yes: “Move to the earlier, similar incident and tell me when you are there.” When they do, repeat procedure Step 5 and Step 6.

When the preclear has become cheerful about the incident, you may run another incident if there is enough time.

To end the session:

7. “I will be ending the session shortly. Come to present time.”

8. “Are you in present time?”

9. “Cancelled.”

10. “When I count from 5 to 1 and snap my fingers you will feel alert. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 (snap).

“End of session.” If the preclear has not yet done so, tell them to open their eyes.

As an auditor, there are guidelines you must follow to ensure good results:

Stick to the commands and NEVER add personal commentary, opinions, suggestions, etcetera, even if the preclear asks. Never refute any information the preclear gives you (for example, if you ask for an earlier, similar incident and the preclear goes to a past life, treat it the same as an earlier, this-lifetime incident. Don’t say “I don’t believe in past lives”).

Don’t audit a preclear that is tired or hungry. Don’t audit a preclear who has had drugs the past week or alcohol the past 24 hours.

Sometimes running incidents can restimulate an auditor who is not formally trained. The main symptom of this is sleepiness. In session, if your preclear discovers you are not fully alert and interested, they will no longer want you to be their auditor. The following drills will help:

Two students sit facing each other with their eyes closed. The drill ends when both students can sit for an extended period without movement or drowsiness.

A student and coach face each other with eyes open. The drill ends when the student can confront the coach for at least two hours without movement, excessive blinking, or loss of attention.

I do recommend reading all of “Dianetics, The Modern Science of Mental Health” for both the auditor and the preclear as it will markedly improve both people’s success.

For the individuals having some experience with the Dianetics theory and procedures, the following will "talk" to them:

Émile Coué

http://www.psychomaster.com/books/emile/

http://nsm04.casimages.com/img/2010/...4507099532.jpg

(1857-1926) Émile Coué, a physician formulated the Laws of Suggestion. He is also known for encouraging his patients to say to themselves 20-30 times each night before going to sleep, “Everyday in every way, I am getting better and better”. He also discovered that when giving patients their medicine and delivering positive suggestion at the same time, proved to be a more effective cure than prescribing medicine alone. He eventually abandoned hypnosis in favour of just using positive suggestion and he thought that the hypnotic state impaired the efficiency of the suggestion.

[...]

If you have really made the autosuggestion, that is to say, if your unconscious has assimilated the idea that you have presented to it, you are astonished to see the thing you have thought come to pass. (Note that it is the property of ideas autosuggested to exist within us unrecognized, and we can only know of their existence by the effect they produce.) But above all, and this is an essential point, the will must not be brought into play in practising autosuggestion; for, if it is not in agreement with the imagination, if one thinks: "I will make such and such a thing happen", and the imagination says: "You are willing it, but it is not going to be", not only does one not obtain what one wants, but even exactly the reverse is brought about.

This remark is of capital importance, and explains why results are so unsatisfactory when, in treating moral ailments, one strives to re-educate the will. It is the training of the imagination which is necessary, and it is thanks to this shade of difference that my method has often succeeded where others -- and those not the least considered -- have failed. From the numerous experiments that I have made daily for twenty years, and which I have examined with minute care, I have been able to deduct the following conclusions which I have summed up as laws:

1. When the will and the imagination are antagonistic, it is always the imagination which wins, without any exception.

2. In the conflict between the will and the imagination, the force of the imagination is in direct ratio to the square of the will.

3. When the will and the imagination are in agreement, one does not add to the other, but one is multiplied by the other.

4. The imagination can be directed.

(The expressions "In direct ratio to the square of the will" and "Is multiplied by" are not rigorously exact. They are simply illustrations destined to make my meaning clearer.)

After what has just been said it would seem that nobody ought to be ill. That is quite true. Every illness, whatever it may be, can yield to autosuggestion, daring and unlikely as my statement may seem; I do not say does always yield, but can yield, which is a different thing.
But in order to lead people to practice conscious autosuggestion they must be taught how, just as they are taught to read or write or play the piano.

Autosuggestion is, as I said above, an instrument that we possess at birth, and with which we play unconsciously all our life, as a baby plays with its rattle. It is however a dangerous instrument; it can wound or even kill you if you handle it imprudently and unconsciously. It can on the contrary save your life when you know how to employ it consciously. One can say of it as Aesop said of the tongue: "It is at the same time the best and the worst thing in the world".
I am now going to show you how everyone can profit by the beneficent action of autosuggestion consciously applied. In saying "every one", I exaggerate a little, for there are two classes of persons in whom it is difficult to arouse conscious autosuggestion:

1. The mentally undeveloped who are not capable of understanding what you say to them.

2. Those who are unwilling to understand.

[...]

Scientology is a body of beliefs and related practices created by American science fiction author L. Ron Hubbard, who lived from 1911 until 1986

In 1986, Hubbard died after years in hiding. David Miscavige emerged as leader of Church of Scientology, while many others practice Scientology independently

Is Scientology good or bad ?:shielddeflect:

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[ Mod-edit: I merged your new query in with an existing, excellent, thread on this very topic. This topic has been extensively discussed here, and new members might find a lot of interesting answers to good questions. -- Paul. ]

Quote:

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Posted by bram

Oh boy, did i throw the baby out with the bathwater. having previously dismissed Scientology as a dangerous cult, I have never read this book......I am also about 25% of the way through it (slow readers eh Gripeaper?) but so far I am blown away. I am resonating and clashing with the book all over. Its such a powerful book, that if I had a hard copy I would be VERY careful where I kept it. BTW I also sensed that there is a protective prescence in the book- I was fleetingly reminded of the minders around a triad boss in some Hong Kong movie.

So far i find:

The description of and action of engrams corresponds exactly with the buddhist explanation of kamma, particularly karmic seeds;
The use of the terms conscious and unconscious corresponds exactly (and predates) Eckhart Tolle's use of the words (and in particular the Pain Body, which is exactly the engram);
I'm not convinced about the four survival aims, or about the descriptions of pain and pleasure (I tend to side with the Buddha on this, and see pleasure and pain as pretty much the same.)

What intrigues me most however, is the description of how engrams are passed to us via the fertilized egg; this confirms what I have read but not understood from tibetan buddhism (via bonpo) that we are literally the continuation of our parents, and puts a whole new slant on the concept of rebirth (for me)- remember what Exodus said about the sins [errors] of the fathers [and mothers]:

''visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children and the children's children, to the third and the fourth generation."

Fantastic post, as you can see from the above, its really got me buzzing here!!

Love, bram

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Ditto I stumbled bumbbbled fummbled in to a latter LRH thread and BR's repost of this thread with Dianetics- Brilliant and generous .

Newbies and veterans alike may get a chuckle or a gasp (or both) from ex-Scientologist and whistleblower Karen de la Carriere's massive documentation of Scientology financial shenanigans on the website Operation Clambake. This coming from one of the few humans alive today who actually worked with L Ron Hubbard. To think that the IRS would be "unaware" of this defies credulity ie inurement etc. I don't know, I don't understand it. Prominent ex Arnie Lerma may be lurking and could possibly reveal more ...

Offered of course
"For Entertainment Purposes Only"
;)

Scientology SCAM "IAS" FRAUD stockpiling $$$ & MONEY
http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=215741