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The Russian forces really need to stop abandoning their own people, this looks awful from a psychological/morale point of view, the Ukraine forces have zero compunction to horribly kill pro-Russian civilians - this is huge mistake on the Russian part, if they are intent on liberating Donbass they need to go 'all-in' and wipe out the NATO/Ukraine forces, I feel for the folks left behind, where do they have to run to?
What specifically leads you to say that this is an illegitimate land grab?Quote:
Posted by Justplain
At this point do you realize what would happen if Russia just left Ukraine a week ago and abandoned all the civilians in contested regions?
How do you think Ukraine would treat Russian speaking Ukrainians in the region? Do you think they would be left alive?
Are you aware of what has been happening in Ukraine since 2014?
What do the people in the region have to say?
Quote:
Posted by BlastolabsWhat specifically leads you to say that this is an illegitimate land grab?Quote:
Posted by Justplain
At this point do you realize what would happen if Russia just left Ukraine a week ago and abandoned all the civilians in contested regions?
How do you think Ukraine would treat Russian speaking Ukrainians in the region? Do you think they would be left alive?
Are you aware of what has been happening in Ukraine since 2014?
What do the people in the region have to say?
Putin has not used nukes, so not sure why you are criticizing Russia for something that has not happened?
the whole situation is a glorious example of the power of propaganda....Quote:
Posted by Justplain
lazy thinking is very attractive, I can't even get mad at those that fall for it anymore.
Quote:
Posted by Justplain
Really?
This is after HIMARS and Cesars were assassinating the actual voting stations??
I don't support anyone, but, if there is someone able to stand up against the U. S. and English, they are on my side.
We cannot yet be sure if King Charles (or is it George, I already can't remember) can establish a Fourth Reich over a few failed German states and some Polish weirdos, but that does not seem to prevent a whole lot of effort being spent. Good luck with that!
You can, of course, commit naval warfare off Bornholm Island about like you can wantonly violate airspace over the eastern U. S. multiple times. Hush money is out there somewhere.
Borrel did not like it either:
The fact that the Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics and the Zaporozhye and Kherson Regions joined Russia makes ending the conflict in Ukraine practically impossible, EU High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy Josep Borrell told Spain’s 24 Horas TV channel on Saturday.
"No one will recognize the annexation of these territories," he insisted. According to the EU’s top diplomat, this decision by the Russian government makes it "practically impossible for the war to end."
Meanwhile, for the English of the English:
On Friday, UK Chancellor of the Exchequer Kwazi Kwarteng announced a 45 billion pound ($48 billion) tax-cutting package that would benefit the highest earners most, causing concern about unsustainable government borrowing.
The International Monetary Fund (IMF) in a statement to Sputnik on Tuesday said the fund is closely following reports about concerning economic developments in the British economy and currently engaged with UK authorities about the matter.
Next year, Volkswagen will probably be made by the Oklahoma Cherokee.
This is after (a) repeal of labor laws and (b) repeal of medical laws after the Maidan coup made Ukraine a cash cow for related western interests. But if this doesn't work, we can just trash Germany and offer their oligarchs tax breaks and other incentives to bring work to the obviously-stagnated U. S. industry.
Remember how only thirty years ago we though it might have been a bad idea to offshore our factories and give General Motors a kingdom on the Isle of Man? And out goes Glass-Steagall.
Only ten years ago, they said you better not make this pipeline through the Dakotas, etc., and so now fracking will come back, and if I remember rightly then the access on this land was already granted, so there is a chance we might earn a small transport fee for the privilege of having chemicals pumped into the ground water that we actually live on. Yay!
I am not sure anyone gets caught holding the bag until Deutsche Bank coughs up its confession. I don't know where we will come up with the $4 Quadrillion. Or how much longer anyone can EU their way around it.
You have pretty much just been promised unending war, if I understand the statement from the entity which was designed to "prevent" it.
Same here TargeT, it's just depressing that so many people are so ignorant of what has led up to this, and what is really going on. It's not like all the relevant info isn't right here.Quote:
Posted by TargeTthe whole situation is a glorious example of the power of propaganda....Quote:
Posted by Justplain
lazy thinking is very attractive, I can't even get mad at those that fall for it anymore.
:facepalm:
I've lifted this paragraph from your previous post to make a comment...Quote:
Posted by Justplain
I'm no expert on the Ukraine situation past and present and I'm learning as I go along... but...
I've had a (fairly quick) look to see what the history of Peacekeeping proposals in Ukraine has been over the years and this article written in 2017 seems to be a general guide on it ...
https://warontherocks.com/2017/09/a-...rd-in-ukraine/
beginning with....
it then goes on to expand on Putin's proposal and then outlines other proposals.. none of which have been implemented as far as I know... and we saw earlier in the year not long after the Special Military Operation kicked off that when Zelensky appeared to be moving towards a Peace Agreement...to end military hostilities with Russia - UK PM Boris Johnson was deployed and flown in to scupper it ... what Johnson said to Zelensky to change his mind we will never know but it must have been persuasive (threatening?)...Quote:
Russian President Vladimir Putin’s proposal to send U.N. peacekeepers to Ukraine received a tepid response from the West, but such a mission could very well be a first step in ending the conflict.
The Big Picture (IMO) is that the Globalist Elite who have control of NATO and are embedded in Military organizations around the world...... don't want a peaceful solution... in fact want a war with Russia with a view to regime change and taking over the country and it's resources... 'they' have been pushing and provoking Putin and Russia for many years especially with the Military Coup in Ukraine 2014...
In a nut shell... from their point of view - you can only have a One World Government and Global Digital Currency -- you can only have total control of everything if eventually all countries are participating and now it looks like they are going 'all in' to force the situation with Russia - not caring one little bit about how many citizens around the world die or have their lives ruined - in fact they probably welcome the depopulation angle -
To summarize - I believe that NATO (and allies) want war and Putin (and allies) want peace... but Russia will not just roll over and let the Globalists destroy her and take over the land and resources...
so we have a dangerous situation where all our futures are being put at risk...
I believe (but I may be wrong) that Liman was deserted, as well as having little strategic value. I don't think there was anyone actually living there. As best I understand, it's just the Russians being careful (again) and next week much if not all of this will br reversed several times over.Quote:
Posted by Mike Gorman
For the important formal record (about nukes et al), here is Putin's entire speech. It's very well worth following the whole thing.
Everything he said is important to understand, and his "This is not a bluff" concluding comment has been taken wildly (and predictably!) out of context by western media and western politicians.
All the nuclear warmongering and threats have come from the US.
(Supported by Liz Truss in the UK! :facepalm: )
https://twitter.com/PutinDirect/stat...46601321308160
Thanks Bill, I have looked further into this and also listened to The Duran's analysis and I had not fully appreciated how deserted this town is, my mistake.
...
... banksters placing their bet on the roulette table:
https://www.rt.com/news/563890-germa...raine-weapons/
German defense minister makes pledge on surprise Ukraine visit
German Defense Minister Christine Lambrecht made an unannounced visit to Ukraine on Saturday, where she vowed to provide more military aid in the coming days, including the long-promised Iris-T SLM ground-based air defense system.
“In a few days, we will deliver the very modern Iris-T air defense system,” she announced following a meeting with her Ukrainian counterpart, Aleksey Reznikov, in the Black Sea port city of Odessa.
Berlin initially promised in June to send Kiev at least one Iris-T unit. Ukraine reportedly wants to obtain at least a dozen and has offered to purchase the rest directly from the manufacturer, even though Germany’s own armed forces have yet to receive these systems themselves.
Germany has sent over €743 million ($728 million) worth of arms to Ukraine, including multiple deliveries of self-propelled Gepard anti-aircraft guns and PzH 2000 howitzers, since the start of the conflict in late February.
France to send rejected howitzers to Ukraine – media READ MORE: France to send rejected howitzers to Ukraine – media
Kiev, however, has repeatedly criticized Berlin for supposedly not doing enough and refusing to provide it with Leopard battle tanks and Marder infantry fighting vehicles. Chancellor Olaf Scholz promised in August that Germany's “most modern and efficient equipment” would be supplied to Ukraine “soon,” referring to the Iris-T systems and Cobra artillery radars, but not tanks.
Berlin argues that no other country has so far sent modern tanks, with Lambrecht reiterating on Saturday that Germany “has always made it clear that we will not go it alone in this area,” in order to avoid “escalation.” Instead, Berlin has offered third countries, such as Greece, Slovakia, Slovenia, the Czech Republic, and Poland, to transfer their stockpiles of Soviet-era hardware to Ukraine in exchange for modern German weaponry.
Moscow has long criticized the deliveries of weapons, arguing that they only prolong the conflict and increase the risk of a direct confrontation between Russia and NATO.
Putin: "The West is ready to cross every line to preserve the neo-colonial system which allows it to live off the world, to plunder it thanks to the domination of the dollar and technology, to collect an actual tribute from humanity, to extract its primary source of unearned prosperity, the rent paid to the hegemon. The preservation of this annuity is their main, real and absolutely self-serving motivation. This is why total de-sovereignisation is in their interest. This explains their aggression towards independent states, traditional values and authentic cultures, their attempts to undermine international and integration processes, new global currencies and technological development centres they cannot control. It is critically important for them to force all countries to surrender their sovereignty to the United States. "
Amazingly, from my observations, only a tiny percentage of US citizens know that this is 100% truth. 99% of US citizens are generally high on inhaled sparkly unicorn fart particles and so engorged on propaganda that they wouldn't know the truth if it kissed them on the lips.