Indecent Proposal, John Englehard. It's a compelling read and far deeper and more complex than depicted in the erotic but lightweight film.
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Indecent Proposal, John Englehard. It's a compelling read and far deeper and more complex than depicted in the erotic but lightweight film.
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Posted by Mark (Star Mariner)
Persisting!:) I'll make it to the end. I'm a stubborn bastard. I read Infinite Jest!:)
Some of the passages are beautifully written. I deeply admire the whole cross country escape bits, the way he creates tension and anxiety while never once using the words 'tension' or 'anxiety' :). It's marvelous and skillful in ways only a unique talent like Nabokov could pull off. High art. But for me it just drags on and on and it can't end soon enough.
I don't mind morally repugnant characters in fiction. I even felt sorry for Humbert in spots, believe it or not. Such is the skill of Nabokov. When moral relativism is presented that cleverly you cant help but be swayed in spots. I think he's daring us to ask ourselves if things are naturally wrong or only wrong because society arbitrarily says so. I'm not a moral relativist or a pedo sympathizer, but I was forced to consider some of Humbert's polemics, much like I was forced to consider what's his name's in The Brothers Karamazov. Very few writers can make you do that. It's what makes them transcendent instead of merely good.
It's a paradox in many ways, the book. And the way readers interpret it varies greatly. I suppose that's a mark of high accomplishment. But I can barely stay awake when I read it. It just doesn't reach me.. what can i say?
Well answered. And you're right, he skilfully meanders between so many difficult themes, and many times does indeed tantalise your sympathy (for Humbert), as one might for one mentally ill, because he is, in profound ways. Likewise, and conversely, he arouses irritation for the girl -- for stringing him along the way she often does when she has ample opportunity to leave him, or blow the whistle. There's an element of Stockholm Syndrome at play throughout, and it's difficult to get your head around.
I will add, what is perhaps most remarkable about that book is Nabokov, a Russian, didn't write it in Russian (later to be translated) but in English, I think a third language for him (after French -- the book has many French passages). For a foreign speaker, his mastery of English is amazing. Writing a book in your own tongue is hard enough, in a foreign one? That boggles my mind.
Mark you've forced me to confront my irritation towards the girl...damn you lol. One more thing to feel guilty about...
Well, sociopaths make great intellectual arguments! And this book - as Humbert's memoiry sort of thing - is meant to justify Humbert's actions to a court. No coincidence that he has cast the girl in this way. Of course we, the readers, are the court. And Nabokov, as Humbert, is challenging our sense of morality with his clever narrative. At least that's the way I interpret the book (so far anyway. still not quite done with it).
Any rational, clear-thinking, and morally centered person will find themselves feeling frustrated when a sociopath like Humbert makes what appears to be a clever and logical argument against the morality they hold so near and dear (and take for granted). I've caught myself feeling this way from time to time, and I had something of a revelation finally, and it goes something like this: true morality doesn't require endless intellectualization and doesn't need to be intellectually defended. We just know when something is right or wrong. You might say God informs us, or our conscience (maybe God is our conscience) or (fill in the blank). But we just know, and getting bogged down in morally relativistic debates is exactly what the sociopath wants.
I wrote in my previous post that the book didn't reach me; I said this once in a creative writing class in college about a Hemingway book, and the teacher said (paraphrase): "Maybe you need to do the reaching." I thought it was a good point. Lolita reached me in the sense that it made me think quite a bit about a number of deeply philosophical things. So maybe Nabokov's purpose was accomplished in a way. Oh, and I deeply resent that he writes so much better than me in his 3rd language .. that sh!t's just obnoxious:)
Absolutely! Especially when you consider most strongly that Humbert shows every sign of being a classic unreliable narrator. We only have his side of the story. If we imagine for a moment this was a true story, then the girl's side would be very different, and probably a hundred times more moving, upsetting and tragic. Humbert's entire narrative is built on the premise of 'hey, it's not my fault, well not completely...' He paints himself as the victim -- the barbarian poet, so bitterly misunderstood. He weaves such pretty webs, too, trying to elicit your love and pity. To the undiscerning reader, he doubtless succeeds in places.Quote:
Posted by Mike
One thing to look out for (it may take multiple readings), and that's subtext. The book, I believe, is encoded with hidden meanings. Some are clearly metaphors for graphic sexual scenarios, but others are more obscure. Many times, I remember being confused by a sentence or passage. Either he was being too clever for me, or these were coded messages, maybe subversive in nature. For the modest times it was written in (1950s), not an unheard of thing. If you spot any and figure them out, do let me know :)
Sunstorm, Arthur C Clark - Stephen Baxter.
Weapons Grade - Tom Clancy and Don Bentley
The Wheel Of Time series by Robert Jordan. Medieval-ish fantasy. I've just finished the first one in the series and there are 13 more to go.....grrrreat :clapping:
"The Ministry of Time" by Kaliane Bradley
Published by Simon & Shuster, 2024.
Primarily a romance, but also a scifi novel, extremely well written particularly in the nuanced and detailed way in which the characters are portrayed, which you rarely see in scifi.
Though the elements of scifi are secondary in the first part of the novel, the main time travel premise is interesting and original and becomes more the focus in the last third or so.
I didn't realize what a critical success the novel was when I picked it up, and was very pleasantly surprised at what a very talented writer the author is.
She is still quite young and I had never heard of her before though she has certainly won a good amount of critical attention already, and I would like to read anything else she has written or writes.
"'A NEW YORK TIMES BESTSELLER * HUGO AWARD FINALIST FOR BEST NOVEL * WINNER OF THE GOODREADS CHOICE AWARD FOR SCIENCE FICTION * A GOOD MORNING AMERICA BOOK CLUB PICK * A BEST BOOK OF THE YEAR: NPR, VANITY FAIR, ESQUIRE, VOX, GOOD HOUSEKEEPING, THE INDEPENDENT, PARADE, KIRKUS REVIEWS, AND MORE...
"This summer's hottest debut." --Cosmopolitan
"Utterly winning...Imagine if The Time Traveler's Wife had an affair with A Gentleman in Moscow...Readers, I envy you: There's a smart, witty novel in your future." --Ron Charles, The Washington Post
Kaliane Bradley is a British-Cambodian writer and editor based in London. Her short fiction has appeared in Somesuch Stories, The Willowherb Review, Electric Literature, Catapult, and Extra Teeth, among others. She was the winner of the 2022 Harper's Bazaar Short Story Prize and the 2022 V.S. Pritchett Short Story Prize.
Dust jacket description:
'In the near future, a civil servant is offered the salary of her dreams and is, shortly afterward, told what project she'll be working on. A recently established government ministry is gathering "expats" from across history to establish whether time travel is feasible--for the body, but also for the fabric of space-time. She is tasked with working as a "bridge": living with, assisting, and monitoring the expat known as "1847" or Commander Graham Gore. As far as history is concerned, Commander Gore died on Sir John Franklin's doomed 1845 expedition to the Arctic, so he's a little disoriented to be living with an unmarried woman who regularly shows her calves, surrounded by outlandish concepts such as "washing machines," "Spotify," and "the collapse of the British Empire." But with an appetite for discovery, a seven-a-day cigarette habit, and the support of a charming and chaotic cast of fellow expats, he soon adjusts. Over the next year, what the bridge initially thought would be, at best, a horrifically uncomfortable roommate dynamic, evolves into something much deeper. By the time the true shape of the Ministry's project comes to light, the bridge has fallen haphazardly, fervently in love, with consequences she never could have imagined. Forced to confront the choices that brought them together, the bridge must finally reckon with how--and whether she believes--what she does next can change the future. An exquisitely original and feverishly fun fusion of genres and ideas, The Ministry of Time asks: What does it mean to defy history, when history is living in your house? Kaliane Bradley's answer is a blazing, unforgettable testament to what we owe each other in a changing world.""
More here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mi...of_Time_(novel)
The Novel, James A. Michener.