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Good point Andy Wright…
Chico, this is your thread, why don’t you do as Andy suggest and put up a poll form on the front of the thread.
IMHO. A key Question “ Do you want checks and balance system introduced”
That will put the issue to rest… Thanks Andy..
Dealing with a skilled manipulator is often like getting whiplash: you don’t know all that’s really happened until after the damage is done.
Sometimes we need to look to see if we are being manipulate through emotions or herded away or divided in some way. How can this be done by another. Here are some ways we can allow ourselves to be manipulate by our emotions.
Denial – This is when the aggressor refuses to admit that they've done something harmful or hurtful when they clearly have. It's a way they lie (to themselves as well as to others) about their aggressive intentions. This "Who... Me?" tactic is a way of "playing innocent," and invites the victim to feel unjustified in confronting the aggressor about the inappropriateness of a behavior.
It's also the way the aggressor gives him/herself permission to keep right on doing what they want to do. this type of denial is not primarily a "defense" but a maneuver the aggressor uses to get others to back off, back down or maybe even feel guilty themselves for insinuating he's doing something wrong.
Rationalization – A rationalization is the excuse an aggressor tries to offer for engaging in an inappropriate or harmful behavior. It can be an effective tactic, especially when the explanation or justification the aggressor offers makes just enough sense that any reasonably conscientious person is likely to fall for it. It's a powerful tactic because it not only serves to remove any internal resistance the aggressor might have about doing what he wants to do (quieting any qualms of conscience he might have) but also to keep others off his back. If the aggressor can convince you he's justified in whatever he's doing, then he's freer to pursue his goals without interference.
Diversion – A moving target is hard to hit. When we try to pin a manipulator down or try to keep a discussion focused on a single issue or behavior we don't like, he's expert at knowing how to change the subject, dodge the issue or in some way throw us a curve. Manipulators use distraction and diversion techniques to keep the focus off their behavior, move us off-track, and keep themselves free to promote their self-serving hidden agendas.
Covert Intimidation – Aggressors frequently threaten their victims to keep them anxious, apprehensive and in a one-down position. Covert-aggressives intimidate their victims by making veiled (subtle, indirect or implied) threats. Guilt-tripping and shaming are two of the covert-aggressive's favourite weapons. Both are special intimidation tactics.
Shaming – This is the technique of using subtle sarcasm and put-downs as a means of increasing fear and self-doubt in others. Covert-aggressives use this tactic to make others feel inadequate or unworthy, and therefore, defer to them. It's an effective way to foster a continued sense of personal inadequacy in the weaker party, thereby allowing an aggressor to maintain a position of dominance and control over others.
Playing the Victim Role – This tactic involves portraying oneself as an innocent victim of circumstances or someone else's behavior in order to gain sympathy, evoke compassion and thereby get something from another. One thing that covert-aggressive personalities count on is the fact that less calloused and less hostile personalities usually can't stand to see anyone suffering. Therefore, the tactic is simple. Convince your victim you're suffering in some way, and they'll try to relieve your distress.
Vilifying the Victim – This tactic is frequently used in conjunction with the tactic of playing the victim role. The aggressor uses this tactic to make it appear he is only responding (i.e. defending himself against) aggression on the part of the victim. It enables the aggressor to better put the victim on the defensive.
Projecting the blame (blaming others) – Aggressive personalities are always looking for a way to shift the blame for their aggressive behavior. Covert-aggressives are not only skilled at finding scapegoats, they're expert at doing so in subtle, hard to detect ways.
Minimization – This tactic is a unique kind of denial coupled with rationalization. When using this maneuver, the aggressor is attempting to assert that his abusive behavior isn't really as harmful or irresponsible as someone else may be claiming. It's the aggressor's attempt to make a molehill out of a mountain.
I've presented the principal tactics that covert-aggressives use to manipulate and control others. They are not always easy to recognize. Although all aggressive personalities tend to use these tactics, covert-aggressives generally use them slickly, subtly and adeptly. Anyone dealing with a covertly aggressive person will need to heighten gut-level sensitivity to the use of these tactics if they're to avoid being taken in by them.
ONE OF THE MAJOR LESSONS AVALONIANS HAD THIS WEEK WAS -
"When you hold resentment toward another, you are bound to that person or condition by an emotional link that is stronger than steel. Forgiveness is the only way to dissolve that link and get free." ~ Catherine Ponder
Ho’oponopono means to “make right” and is the Hawaiian for forgiveness. Ho'oponopono restores your light or energy body and your e-motion, or energy in motion. Through your light body you are connected with all of life. Through your e-motion you are always affecting everyone around you by your thoughts, words, feelings and actions.
To heal any split or feeling of separation within yourself, or between you and another person, first say with genuine feeling, "I apologize," and then, "Please forgive me."
By saying "I apologize," you are asking for forgiveness inside yourself in order to release and let go of the bad feelings of discomfort like guilt, and shame inside of you. Forgiveness does not mean you are condoning anyone’s behavior. Forgiveness simply means you no longer wish to suffer from a past issue.
God/Goddess and all that is,
Angels, guides, ancestors, teachers, and friends,
I call upon all who love me to witness for me now,
In deep appreciation for my soul’s journey
I acknowledge my unfoldment,
Bless my path as I release struggles,
and burdens from my life.
And so it is.
Ultimately Forgiveness is a mystical revelation and experience; by performing Ho'oponopono the Law of Grace is activated to free you from your karmic (cause and effect) entanglements.
Polls do not mandate forum organization, procedure or guidelines.Quote:
Posted by Fred259
Right now, it seems that so long as those members remain here who are determined to keep making an issue of this, just so long will the issue not be put to rest.
No but they might help you to understand how people like Chico and I feel at your dictatorial attitude Paul.Quote:
Posted by PaulPolls do not mandate forum organization, procedure or guidelines.Quote:
Posted by Fred259
Right now, it seems that so long as those members remain here who are determined to keep making an issue of this, just so long will the issue not be put to rest.
Why don’t you answer the question about Chico and his Checks and Balances suggestion?
What happened to SKAWF? Why was he AWOL for two weeks?
Thanks so much for this. I really enjoyed reading it :-)Quote:
Posted by loveandgratitude
You have my love and gratitude, love and gratitude.
.........................................Quote:
Posted by Fred259No but they might help you to understand how people like Chico and I feel at your dictatorial attitude Paul.Quote:
Posted by PaulPolls do not mandate forum organization, procedure or guidelines.Quote:
Posted by Fred259
Right now, it seems that so long as those members remain here who are determined to keep making an issue of this, just so long will the issue not be put to rest.
Why don’t you answer the question about Chico and his Checks and Balances suggestion?
What happened to SKAWF? Why was he AWOL for two weeks?
[QUOTE=Paul;219062][QUOTE=Fred259;219058]
That’s Balderdash Paul, The problem is you never answer a question. Chico has continually championed the cause of those who were sacked retied or sent to dig the garden.Quote:
Right now, it seems that so long as those members remain here who are determined to keep making an issue of this, just so long will the issue not be put to rest.
Paul remember this… many members have contributed with time and money. We don’t know if any have made a financial contribution to Bill It doesn’t matter. What he wants is answers to his questions. Stop sitting on the fence and start seeing sense.
Bottom Line. Its not an issue, but if you ignore members questions it becomes an issue. You create the issues…don’t you see that..
FRED - Maybe you missed the lesson on Ho’oponopono. I think you need to revise the lesson like a good student like we all are.
Paul, thank you and I thank all the other moderators for a wonderful and difficult job that you all excel at.
A MESSGE FOR OTHERS WHO WANT TO ATTACK AND CRITIZE. Relax. It's hard to cultivate a sense of gratitude when you're angry, frustrated, or anxious. If you're too busy dwelling on the past you won't be able to fully notice how fantastic things are right now. Have you not noticed how wonderful things are flowing here at Avalon at the moment. The most amazing intelligent and thought expanding discussions at the moment. Maybe you need to bring something of value to the table or excuse yourself and allow fellow Avalonians to continue discussing more imporant issues.
That rich from you.. thanks for telling me to go to hell this afternoon, but I suppose the mods must have missed that one…Quote:
Quote:
Posted by loveandgratitude
Reply to the thread will you…
[QUOTE=Fred259;219071][QUOTE=Paul;219062]ah, no. I see you creating an issue right here.Quote:
Posted by Fred259
Nor is it feasible to have Paul make a nice 20 page thesis on the care and feeding of one member of a forum.
If you give a damn, stop damaging the people who give you a functional place to communicate.
Give your head a shake and stop being deconstructive. Ie, recognize your internal personality conflict and relational issue, regarding this situation.
Skawf had the right attitude, in order to help keep the forum functional.
Like me being banned from that forum..he let it go.
A more harsh and even possibly incorrect thought on my part is, and it is possible to extrapolate from your behavior is that:
This constant pressure tells me that the two of you don't believe in this forum, but you believe in your right to wank about it. Democracy, my ass. This is plain and simple egotistical wanking.
Or, perhaps you are missing some data point, or I am. However this forum and how it operates is not the question. It never was.
An act of conflating your mental parameters with how this forum works is not a issue that the forum and it's administration should be dealing with.
[QUOTE=Carmody;219079][QUOTE=Fred259;219071]As Teakai would say. Were “splashing around in puddles” here.. Chico has raised some very valid points and the mods need to take his post #1 seriously.Quote:
Posted by Paulah, no. I see you creating an issue right here.Quote:
Posted by Fred259
Nor is it feasible to have Paul make a nice 20 page thesis on the care and feeding of one member of a forum.
Where are the answers. The issues in Chico’s post must be addressed…
FRED -
Ho'oponopono - Hawaiian Code of Forgiveness
I LOVE YOU
I AM SORRY
PLEASE FORGIVE ME
THANK YOU
Would 95% to 5% "put it to rest"? How about 80% to 20%? 70% to 30%? 67% (a 2/3 majority, just like Congress) or maybe a simple majority, 51% winner-takes-all and they get to redefine the moderation guidelines?Quote:
Posted by andywightDennis,Quote:
Posted by Dennis Leahy
Why don't we have a poll about members thoughts on whether censorship has become a problem here? so we can finally put this matter to rest.
Andy
A poll would not put this to rest. Some people enjoy controversy - it is their entertainment.
Many of the people who have been moderated probably think they were unfairly moderated, but that does not mean it is true.
I have a small amount of time I am able to give to Avalon as a moderator, and I give it freely and do my best. It appears to me that some folks have the mistaken notion that being a moderator is, or should be, a full time job.
I'll try one more time...
Imagine an umpire in a baseball game. A good guy, trying his best. A ball comes sizzling in and it is just barely over the corner of the plate. He calls a strike. Depending on where you were in the stadium, or the batters box, it sure as hell looks like a bad call.
BOOOO! is heard from a handful of people. The batter spits on the ground and has a mild temper tantrum on his way to the dugout, He is POSITIVE it was not a strike! He talks about it for weeks, months, maybe even years, as do some of the fans. They even play it back - on videotape - and although the camera angle is not exactly the same as what the umpire saw, the videotape is "proof" to the disgruntled fans that their batter was robbed!
The umpire did his best job, gave an honest call, and is done with it. He has a life to live, and is not going to re-live and re-argue that pitch every time a disgruntled fan starts complaining.
Dennis
No your two faced.Reply to the Fulford post and I might consider it…Quote:
Posted by loveandgratitude
its so funny, avalon gets extended the left hand with forgiveness and with the right gets slapped with charges censorship.
Again with the ad hominem attacks. This place is so censored that you're getting away scott-free with your ad hominem attacks on people. Two on L&G and one on Paul. Three good reasons to have you censored right there and has it happened? I suspect that would only be playing into your hands. Oh yeah, Paul's still the devil incarnate... sheesh.Quote:
Posted by Fred259No your two faced.Reply to the Fulford post and I might consider it…Quote:
Posted by loveandgratitude
It seems as though every week now there is a new thread started about how someone feels slighted by the decisions made by the moderators. As a casually interested observer, I can say that the people who write these thread are often the ones affected by the mods decisions.
A tiny minority of the 3400+ members feels strongly enough about these issues to voice them or support them.
It comes down to bruised egos and inability to understand the expectations and rules put in place for this forum. They are spelled out quite clearly and all who joined responded to a thread that means we acknowledged them. Sometimes we feel as though our sense of what is right or wrong is the norm. Whenever we falsely place our own ideas of what is normal, to a group of thousands, we will inevitably find ourselves being wrong. Maybe not to the whole or the majority...but someone will disagree. In this case a very small but very loud minority is trumpeting the need for a new set of mods or another system of checks and balances. It is a simple equation...if you don't like the way you were treated here and you can't get the justice or answers you are looking for...leave. Go with your head held high that you tried and failed at making the forum think your way. It is a normal part of life.
I think it is absurd to ask for a new set of moderators for the moderators. Just like big government is a waste of time another group of moderators is a waste of time too. Why is it so hard to understand that this is Bill Ryan's forum and Bill chooses the moderators. If someone is going to overrule or change a mod, I will go out on a limb and assume that person will be Bill. It is also apparent that Bill will consult with the mod team and make group decisions. These choices are not made in a vacuum. The feel or the mood of the forum is decided by Bill. We have been drawn and in some cases repelled by the decisions made by Bill and all that is fine. It is normal to not agree with all our fellow human beings.
The main part of the forum that I dislike is threads like this...which amounts to childish squabbling in my opinion. They are counter productive. self serving, obviously negative and poisonous to the environment. But that is just my opinion for what it's worth. Let's just get on with life please... Chicodoodoo I have read some of your posts and you can contribute in a way more productive and more helpful way than this. Your insights can be valuable...did you really spend a week talking with your friends on the Nexus2012 forum to come back here to do this?
This forum should be better than this...
[QUOTE=Fred259;219081][QUOTE=Carmody;219079]last post and I'm out of this unwarranted intrusion into this forum. I repeat:Quote:
Posted by Fred259As Teakai would say. Were “splashing around in puddles” here.. Chico has raised some very valid points and the mods need to take his post #1 seriously.Quote:
Posted by Paulah, no. I see you creating an issue right here.Quote:
Posted by Fred259
Nor is it feasible to have Paul make a nice 20 page thesis on the care and feeding of one member of a forum.
Where are the answers. The issues in Chico’s post must be addressed…
An act of conflating your mental parameters with how this forum works is not a issue that the forum and it's administration should be dealing with.
I can see all sides to this...just want to say the full moon is upon us:yo:
Ross
i'm jus sat here thinking.......
how much of this is important? sure it'd be nice to have checks an balances in internet forums,
but its meaningless at the end of the day.
why are we here trying to build a virtual community
when most dont know the people in their own street (well i dont!)
none of this matters.
i disagree with fred about chemtrails,
how much bearing will that have on my life?, i'll tell you.... NONE.
we are getting passionate about words on a screen.
the only persons standards you should care about are your own
likewise the only definition of integrity is your own.
if you feel its being compromised then,
then the ball is in your court.
i reckon that if you see everything outside of yourself as a deliberate distraction from your inner self,
then taking part in this is ludicrous. a merry go round. in pointless circles forever.
lets not forget, this is only the internet.
the last cul de sac before the great realisation. a stepping stone,
that is unless you actually intended spending the rest of your existance staring at a screen.
i have ferrets to attend to.
steve