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Yes, all agreed. I do think Michael Thomas was very unclear. I listened to that part twice, and still wasn't 100% sure what he was trying to say about the 'Camp Fire' term!Quote:
Posted by waves
And yes re the power lines. The evidence so far seems to suggest sparks on uncleared dry brush from some kind of fault, but not actually a downed line. I think, as you say, that was an earlier (incorrect) report. Mea culpa.
I just saw this from Kerry Cassidy, posted 20 hours ago, and haven't watched it yet myself:
CALIFORNIA FIRES AN ON-THE-GROUND REPORT
"2 RESEARCHERS reporting from Northern California about circumstances surrounding cause of the California fires."
This video is full of expletives, but so compelling. However, in the first minutes he shouts a warning to his neighbour to get out. At the end of this video a caption appears, that his neighbour’s vehicle was overcome by the fire, and that man ran, carrying 2 little girls, to escape. He is in contact with his neighbour, now safe, and I thought this story correlated with that of ‘our’ Geoff Reed’s dreadful scenario. Could it be the same person?
Quote:
Posted by Blacklight43
In this interview, as well as all the points discussed since the posting, it is pointed out that Diane Feinstein's husband, Richard Bloom, has a contract to build a high speed railway through California.
Definitely a "watch this space" item in the notebook.
The other way to look at it is what I thought immediately - there's no coincidence that out of all the streets or landmarks near the fire origin the word Camp was chose over all the other choices, but not only that, the starting place chosen for the purpose of being able to use 'Camp' for the psychological manipulation benefits....... just like the 'Carr' fire was also chosen last August.Quote:
Posted by onawah
Not an opinion is that a military operation leaves nothing to chance on a mission and of course a major element, the name to sell to the public with is pre-chosen if an event really is a targeted strike like these fires have been beyond repeatedly verified to me since last year.
How is this not asking for something unrealistic? Can every article summing up countless puzzle pieces of a BIG issue include the 100's of pages of supporting evidence throughout the internet that support it? Even the most authentic and legitimate person has to draw the line somewhere, the rest is up to you to find sources, compare and verify.Quote:
Posted by onawah
Like Smart Meters, I didn't in the least question the Smart Meter point because I've lost count of how many supportive reports/videos/images I've seen over the last few years.
What is internet proof to you in a world where any report, video, document, or testimony can all be a lie or faked? Is it 'proof' to you if CNN says so? I suspect you would have a problem with any 'proof' Thomas cited anyway.Quote:
Posted by onawah
Problem is, we're all stuck in this 'proof on the internet only' world where we have to to a lot of looking and decide for ourselves what we feel is authentic or not, no one or site is some verified trustable truth vetter. Does it mean truth is not out there, NO. There's plenty to find, but it's not going to be neatly handed to you.
Nov. 16, 2018
6pm Butte County Camp Fire Update :
71 Dead
1,011 Missing, nearly doubled again from 631 yesterday
9,700 Homes destroyed
336 Businesses destroyed
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
October, 2017
Sonoma/Napa Fires totals
26 Dead
8,900 homes/businesses destroyed
CA Governor Jerry 'moonbeam' Brown's comment:
"Things like this and worse WILL be part of our future"
Actually Waves, no, you are 100% wrong, and frankly, I don't think you really suspect that I "would have a problem with any 'proof' Thomas cited anyway."
I think you just want to pick a fight, and I'm not interested.
Try again and I will put you on my Ignore list, and you will have to find someone else to annoy.
If you haven't been paying attention to anyone else's posts but your own, then you should know better than to make such an accusation.
Anyone who has read the threads about Corey Goode and company, and the real journalists and researchers such as Daniel Liszt, Richard Dolan, our own Bill Ryan, etc. who have picked apart their wild claims and shown again and again that there is NO PROOF whatsoever of what they claim should be able to see and know that it is pretty much agreed, that PROOF is the test of good reporting, and what makes the public change its' mind about the things they've been brainwashed into believing.
OBVIOUSLY, Agenda 21 is a whole different matter, but documentation, expert and credible eye witnesses, info from insider whistleblowers who are willing to reveal what they know despite the risk are still necessary to pass the litmus test.
There HAVE been eye witness accounts, and people with credentials who have offered expert opinions and accounts, Deborah Tavares claims she has documented proof, but on the particular complex issues that comprise Agenda 21, there is still not a united or organized enough front to have the effect that is needed now, because people's lives are on the line.
THAT'S what I'm saying, and I'm NOT complaining about the evidence that has been compiled, I'm just stating a fact, and you've admitted pretty much the same thing yourself.
You wrote:I have friends living in critical areas on the West Coast who are still unaware and unconvinced that anything diabolical is going on. I wish to God I had a couple of really good sites that I could point to that would convince them they are in danger. I hope now that the info that has been gathered is enough, that enough people will be aware enough to organize to protect themselves and take action, that it's reached critical mass now and will morph into a form that will be organized and clear and convincing enough to make enough difference that the elite will have to STOP what they are doing.Quote:
Posted by waves
That requires cool heads, clear thinking, organization and perseverance, not emotionalism and hysteria and self-indulgence. I hope there are some heroes out there who are up to the task.
Most people don't have time to do all the combining and coordinating and fact checking necessary for themselves, but a team of dedicated people working together could do it, and that's what I'm praying for, because so far this movement is still too fragmented.
In short, I hope humanity has reached the point of saying ENOUGH!
~~~Quote:
Posted by Bill RyanYes, all agreed. I do think Michael Thomas was very unclear. I listened to that part twice, and still wasn't 100% sure what he was trying to say about the 'Camp Fire' term!Quote:
Posted by waves
And yes re the power lines. The evidence so far seems to suggest sparks on uncleared dry brush from some kind of fault, but not actually a downed line. I think, as you say, that was an earlier (incorrect) report. Mea culpa.
Just a little more on this. I'm ONLY reporting facts here :) — in this case, the recorded initial Cal Fire dispatch audio.
I am NOT stating or arguing that power lines were actually down, and this is what definitely caused the fire. But in this audio, one can clearly hear the engines one by one reporting back to the female dispatcher, saying: "COPY, POWER LINES DOWN." The repeated phrase, from each engine, is easy to hear.
2 minute audio here: (do listen)
Which was extracted from this page.
But, caveats:
There's evidence for that, because on this page
- "power lines down" might simply mean a fault, like "normal operation is down". They do seem to be confirming the received information: "power line hazard".
- And/or, the engines might not have reached the scene yet, and the "power lines down" was the initial report that was being communicated for investigation.
One can read (my added red emphasis)Once more: I'm NOT arguing that this was what actually happened. But above, when I postedAt around 6:33 a.m. Thursday, firefighters received a call from Poe Dam that a vegetation fire started under the high tension power lines, above the Feather River. The caller reported downed power lines and firefighters first on scene found a 10-acre blaze nearing brush and timber not maintained by PG&E. The firefighters asked dispatch to evacuate the town of Pulga, immediately southwest of the dam.
...I had to go back and check the original sources to make sure my memory was all in one piece. (And, I'm happy that it is. :) )Quote:
Posted by Bill Ryan
:focus:
A little mordant humor:
One thing everyone can do to help stop it: https://www.5gspaceappeal.org/the-appeal
There was also this post and the article it referenced:Quote:
Posted by Bill Ryan
Woman was warned by power company that crews needed to investigate sparks on her property one day before wildfire broke out nearby killing 42 in Paradise
... indicating that somewhere on the Pugla area (where the fire started a few hours later), sparks were reported which indicates in turn that the line(s) was/were arching.
Quote:
A woman who owns property near the point where a deadly wildfire started in Northern California says she was warned by a utility company last week that crews would need to come onto her land to investigate power lines causing sparks.
The fire started last Thursday in an area of 64 acres of land in Pulga, California, owned by Betsy Ann Cowley. It engulfed the nearby town of Paradise, killing 42 people.
Cowley said she had received an email the day before, on Wednesday, from Pacific Gas & Electric Co saying that crews needed to come to her property.
I'm so not your enemy Onawah, I apologize for the way that statement came off, it wasn't at all meant in a picking a fight or mean way at all. I said it because you had said you weren't yet fully buying the deliberate targeting of these fires and I feel there is way enough preponderance of evidence for it. I had replied asking you what fire related issues you haven't found enough evidence for yet and you didn't give me that answer.Quote:
Posted by onawah
I said that from frustration at being surrounded for so long by people who keep saying where's the proof when I know I can't give them anything they would accept. Don't you know people like that too? I know there isn't anything but great preponderance of evidence + common sense, but 'proofers' don't see it that way.
They also don't have the interest... or driving need from feeling the danger I guess. It would take an enormous amount of time reading viewpoints they pre-detest to change their minds - that's not going to happen.Quote:
Posted by onawah
But I get that your lamenting is more frustration at not having credible journalism sources outlining the big picture with supportive proof to be able to show to friends in danger. I agree there are none.
I think we've agreed that we're stuck with the big problem of the messengers shooting themselves in the foot for going off on a really wrong tangent in the middle of valid stuff and it's very hard to find anybody 100% credible, comprehensive or providing adequate support. The closed minded just jump on the off base things and discard the whole thing while puffing up and saying I told you so.
Yes, I'm afraid these genocides and brazen home wipe outs are indications of how emboldened the enemy feels. For me, being surrounded by hopelessly closedminded sheeple totally disinterested in questioning and doing ZERO research... and ARGUING WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING THE WORK... is worse than this vulnerability to the brazen enemy.Quote:
Posted by onawah
Without that huge awakening and organizing and saying ENOUGH they are going to be the primary reason the enemy succeeds.
Eyewitness barely makes it out alive in California fire storm
https://yt3.ggpht.com/a-/AN66SAxZNMK...ffffff-rj-k-noAmerican Intelligence Media
Published on 17 Nov 2018
Douglas Gabriel interviews Robert Otey in his first-hand account of what it was like on the ground as the California firestorm broke out. After listening to this video, you may want to help Robert. His website is www.feandft.com . His paypal account is robert@feandft.com.
You wrote: " I said it because you had said you weren't yet fully buying the deliberate targeting of these fires and I feel there is way enough preponderance of evidence for it."
I don't recall saying that anywhere, though I DID say that there is already proof enough that the fires are the result of weather engineering (causing drought), chemtrailing (with aluminum and other incendiaries infiltrating the soil), possibly (according to Dutchsinse) underground explosions of magma (possibly triggered by tens of thousands of drilling ops, many of them right on faults and active and inactive volcano sites) which could be setting off fires and heating and drying up the ground even more.
That was NOT meant as an implication that DEWs and other methods are not being employed.
On the contrary, it was meant to show that there are a LOT of unnatural causes for these fires.
I suggest you read this post: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1259875
...and see if you did not misinterpret my statements and perhaps Joe of the Carolinas' as well. See: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1186019
I suspect you did, and that is one reason why I did not answer you in the way you expected; first things first, and I hope that is cleared up now.
I also felt that you were in your own words: " going off on a really wrong tangent in the middle of valid stuff" by getting what seemed to be defensive about the whole issue of the naming of the Camp fire and the value of State of the Nation. The former I felt was kind of trivial compared to the rest of the info that is coming out now.
As for SotN, I think there's a lot of great info there, but again, if all the many articles there are like the one I cited, it is lacking in documentation, citing of expert testimony, and other references that are the only real way to make all that great info convincing enough to be useful in opening the eyes of the unawakened, which is the main problem now, as I see it.
We certainly do agree that "ARGUING WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING THE WORK" is not helpful, but it may be the only way that blind spots can be identified and corrected.
Until we who are doing the work, in whatever capacity, get our own trips more together, there's less chance that we are going to be able to bring the much more recalcitrant ones who simply don't want to know or refuse to believe, to open their eyes and ears to the truth of the situation.
Hopefully we can start for our own part by being more clear and paying closer attention here where we are on allied territory.
Quote:
Posted by wavesI'm so not your enemy Onawah, I apologize for the way that statement came off, it wasn't at all meant in a picking a fight or mean way at all. I said it because you had said you weren't yet fully buying the deliberate targeting of these fires and I feel there is way enough preponderance of evidence for it. I had replied asking you what fire related issues you haven't found enough evidence for yet and you didn't give me that answer.Quote:
Posted by onawah
I said that from frustration at being surrounded for so long by people who keep saying where's the proof when I know I can't give them anything they would accept. Don't you know people like that too? I know there isn't anything but great preponderance of evidence + common sense, but 'proofers' don't see it that way.
They also don't have the interest... or driving need from feeling the danger I guess. It would take an enormous amount of time reading viewpoints they pre-detest to change their minds - that's not going to happen.Quote:
Posted by onawah
But I get that your lamenting is more frustration at not having credible journalism sources outlining the big picture with supportive proof to be able to show to friends in danger. I agree there are none.
I think we've agreed that we're stuck with the big problem of the messengers shooting themselves in the foot for going off on a really wrong tangent in the middle of valid stuff and it's very hard to find anybody 100% credible, comprehensive or providing adequate support. The closed minded just jump on the off base things and discard the whole thing while puffing up and saying I told you so.
Yes, I'm afraid these genocides and brazen home wipe outs are indications of how emboldened the enemy feels. For me, being surrounded by hopelessly closedminded sheeple totally disinterested in questioning and doing ZERO research... and ARGUING WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING THE WORK... is worse than this vulnerability to the brazen enemy.Quote:
Posted by onawah
Without that huge awakening and organizing and saying ENOUGH they are going to be the primary reason the enemy succeeds.
:bump:Quote:
Posted by norman
MUST LISTEN.
Important points, I think: —>
- He's an intelligent, articulate, well-informed man. I found him far more precise and concise, and much easier to listen to, than Michael Thomas (post #93).
- He's an eyewitness not [just] to the fire, but to the anomalous, inexplicable way the fire spread. An important distinction to be emphasized. His account is compelling, and may be important.
- It's very clear that hundreds more died than have been so far reported, and that the full scale of this hasn't yet been properly described in any media.
Yes my turn to mea culpa, a first observer said the words 'power lines down' and I was even the first to question it! In this thread I immediately kept asking if anything in that report had been verified - if anyone had actually visited what that caller also described as the 'nearly inaccessible' location because I smelled a rat that reeked of an immediate cover story to blame PGE.Quote:
Posted by Bill Ryan
I forgot I wrote that, my circuits are slowing from sitting in this toxic smoke for 10 days.
The cover story immediately changed to 'sparks' and then 'problem' because nothing had fallen... and any talk of the cause has been dead silent ever since. No need to say any more, the seed has been planted.
But I'm mostly replying here to emphasize what I tried to point out right away - notice the cover story being planted.
I believe PGE was set up from the beginning to be the cover story. The fire was deliberately started near a nearly inaccessible tower (also near where they could name the fire 'camp' ) so someone would see it and report it. PGE as a player was in on it as the patsy having been assured they would lose no money like with Santa Rosa. GuvMoonbeam had literally just signed a bill to let PGE pass any Santa Rosa costs onto PGE clients.
They fixed two things they learned from last year - immediately have a fall guy, and start from one place, not try to get away with 100 separate fires starting at the same moment blaming the wind.
Here's a sharper picture of the fire emanating from a nearly straight line in winds high enough to very quickly incinerate 10,000+ houses in all directions up ahead.
https://i.postimg.cc/rpmZLR58/landsa...lite-start.png
He has definitely did his part in making the future worse.
We see that the ideology of the global controllers is that they never let a disaster go unexploited.
It's years and decades of preparation; one step at a time, one absurd law at a time, another phase of social engineering and perception management to lull the unsuspecting into believing anything, including that this is just global weather change.
This fire may have started as typical electric fire but the nature of the fire does not look typical, even with the years of chemical aerosol sprays and droughts that can greatly accelerated fires.
I lived in the California mountains for many years and watched and experienced many fires including 4 major fires that sent residents off the mountain on evacuation orders. The last major fire I experienced was in late October 2007 that burned in San Diego, San Bernardino and Riverside counties all at once. It was in a dry fall and it moved fast, sped on by drought, hot dry winds and chemical aerosol sprays.
The houses were burned out skeletons, some much worse than others, but nothing like the pile of white ash with a few odds and ends we have seen the last few years. These 'new' fires that can burn one half of a house to the ground, leaving the other half intact and undamaged are a different sort of beast.
The fires are the main reason I left the mountains.
Camp' Fire UPDATE Nov. 17 2018
blancolirio
Published on Nov 17, 2018
"The number of missing folks up to over 1000. President Trump visits the devastated town of Paradise, Ca."
(A lot of the newly homeless of Paradise were there because of the reconstruction of the Oroville dam. Sad that their heroic efforts to save the dam are being repaid with this tragedy.)
I lived in Northern California for 20 years from '72 to '92; in Oakland during the devastating Oakland fires, in the Santa Cruz mountains during mudslides that wiped out a whole hillside community next to the one where I lived, in SF during the great quake of '89, after which I moved back to Santa Cruz, which had been devastated by the '89 quake, with most of the old brick buildings downtown destroyed.
The only disaster they haven't had yet is tsunami, and with the "slow slip" Dutchsinse has been telling us about, if and when the "big one" hits, something like what happened to Japan could be in store for CA. soon.
I had only been in CA. for 2 months when I was hit and nearly killed by a drunk hit and run driver, but was very hard to leave that great climate 20 years later, but it was a huge relief once I left.
But my dearest friends are still living in coastal CA. and I am worried to death about them. :(
Quote:
Posted by latte
Jerry Brown playing the "carbon emissions" card again
Transcript: California Gov. Jerry Brown on "Face the Nation," Nov. 18, 2018 https://www.cbsnews.com/news/transcr...n-nov-18-2018/
GOV. BROWN: "Yes. So that's a big, big win. The president not only has signed a presidential declaration giving California substantial funding, but he said and pledged very specifically to- to continue to help us. That he's got our back. And I thought that was a very positive thing. There have been some back and forth between California leaders and the president. But in this- in the face of tragedy people tend to rise above some of their lesser propensities. So I think we're on a good path, but it's still going to be difficult because the only way to ensure the long term forest health is not just, you know, cutting trees it's going to require reducing carbon emissions and eventually sooner rather than later to zero. And if we don't do that you're going to see these fires not only continuing, but getting worse by the year as they are. The last five years, the fires have never been this bad. This fire in Malibu is the worst they've ever seen. This fire in- in Paradise and Northern California was the worst in the history of California. So yeah, you can mull the science, but I'll tell you every year it's going to get clearer and clearer so that I think in less than five years even the worst skeptics are going to be believers." :facepalm: