Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

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Posted by Turcurulin

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Posted by Bill Ryan

I'm currently trying to contact John Mercieca.

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Hi Bill,

From post #73 of this thread, were you ever able to make this contact? Any updates, by chance?

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No contact, and no updates; but in France next month, I have the opportunity to meet with a long-time Camelot supporter from Malta, who has the resources to help make the connection. That would be a significant step forwards in learning more about the provenance of the claimed original photo.

As stated earlier, that old photo was most certainly taken at what later became known as the 'Kaufmann' crash site. The point-by-point comparison of the background features of the rocks are a slam-dunk. What is not known is who took the photo, when it was taken, and who and what is depicted: is it a tarpaulin covering something else -- or the craft itself?.

The Kaufmann site is absolutely in the middle of near-featureless nowhere. I defy anyone to find it who does not have detailed Roswell-crash-history knowledge.

So... why would an old photo emerge of anything at all at that exact location? When Frank Kaufmann reported his story, and stated where the site was, the existence of that photo was totally unknown. Even now, it's been reported almost nowhere else.

That's what continues to hook my attention and curiosity. I think it might be real.

The same picture is here:
http://www.jerrypippin.com/UFO_Files...rogram_One.htm
http://bsearch.goo.ne.jp/image_detai...aft.jpg&SNUM=4
http://www.blogodisea.com/2007/miste...-expediente-x/
http://ufocon.blogspot.com.ar/2009/1...om-foster.html

This is such a strange Planet . Imagine how odd it has to look/feel from the other side ..

You crash or land on planet inhabited by seemingly intelligent creatures . Their army jump on the crash site ( alt. landing site )like swarm of locusts , clean all the mess , hide all the evidence to 'protect' their people from knowing that you exist and maintain the story ''we are alone in Space'' .

What would you conclude else than the inhabitants are either total nuts or religious fanatics . Careful approach recommended with further investigation of the planet . The folks can be dangerous . Presence of either political or religious aristocracy who decide what's true or false overpowers sense of science and sense of virtue . Willing to sacrifice people to maintain the ownership of land and rule .

Questions arise such as ... are the inhabitants enslaved animals . Do they consider themselves animals. If so who had enslaved them .
Are there 2 types of inhabitants . Who is each . Were the 'enslaved animals' produced artificially or are they natural species .

What next ..




Next of course , your 'mothership' will forge careful investigation under cover . Find why the 'animals' are held in captivity and who is maintaining the order .

( presumably, you do not travel across the Universe in 4 people )


60 turn-arounds later


.... no one is mood to write conclusive report ...


The 'Species' is transitioning with large variability of biological material observed and collected , several lines of controlled evolution had been suggested , non satisfactory as they evade all attempts for biological definition.


;)

The short film is very authentic looking-it is hand-held, blurry, rushed-and the details are not 'Hyped', uniforms look right
for the late 40's -packed with an atmosphere of adrenalin that comes right through-i agree Bill it is a damned good fake if it is one.

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Posted by noxon medem

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Posted by jimmer

" - as for the photo comparison, I've stared at both images and can't quite see the 'fingerprint',
although the topography in both is very similar.
any chance to do an overlay (bw bottom, colored top) comparison to match it up better?
that way the 2 images could be resized and lined up perfectly, if it's there.
I could do it in photoshop, but since I can't see it, I wouldn't know where to start.

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- Then this can possibly help you starting ...
Have tried to adjust the new image to the style and format of the old, so to easyer see
the clearly excisting match between the landscape in the old and new picture.
Two versions of adjusted old-new composit is embedded, one with 4 referencepoints (a-d)
marking some of many similarities in the terrain and hillside formations in both pictures.

Some technical points to evaluating the likeness of the scenery of the images:
- the sun is in a different angle in the two pictures, give different shadows (other time of day).
- different types of camera-lenses have been used, giving difference in perpective/distortion.
- the photos, old and new, are taken from slightly different positions, angle and hight.
- Some erosion have taken place in 63 years, and maybe material have been dumped there.

...

Attachment 1259 - ' - Attachment 1260
- click on images to enlarge -
( Image left is without the a-d referencepoints, they are included in Image right.)

- here the original composit from Bills archives:
Attachment 1261

- For me the landscapes in the old and new pictures seems to be the same,
with a (more than) very high probability of being at the exact same location.
- If the position in the new image is confirmed as the Roswell crash-site, and
the old photo is a genuine, proven, documentation (from the time, place, object)
then visual evidence show that the object in the old one is the "UFO" in question.
..
- or maybe to call it an "UCO". - Unidentified Crashing Object
...

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The foreground elevation seem kinda off. The men were standing on higher ground whereas it now looks more like the upper part of a tree.

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Posted by Bill Ryan

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Posted by Turcurulin

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Posted by Bill Ryan

I'm currently trying to contact John Mercieca.

---

Hi Bill,

From post #73 of this thread, were you ever able to make this contact? Any updates, by chance?

---

No contact, and no updates; but in France next month, I have the opportunity to meet with a long-time Camelot supporter from Malta, who has the resources to help make the connection. That would be a significant step forwards in learning more about the provenance of the claimed original photo.

As stated earlier, that old photo was most certainly taken at what later became known as the 'Kaufmann' crash site. The point-by-point comparison of the background features of the rocks are a slam-dunk. What is not known is who took the photo, when it was taken, and who and what is depicted: is it a tarpaulin covering something else -- or the craft itself?.

The Kaufmann site is absolutely in the middle of near-featureless nowhere. I defy anyone to find it who does not have detailed Roswell-crash-history knowledge.

So... why would an old photo emerge of anything at all at that exact location? When Frank Kaufmann reported his story, and stated where the site was, the existence of that photo was totally unknown. Even now, it's been reported almost nowhere else.

That's what continues to hook my attention and curiosity. I think it might be real.

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My guess based on studies of the Roswell incident would suggest the missing site in the photos would be right on the 34th parallel or near the current location of the Very Large Array (SE tip of its triangular shape is right on the 34th).

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Posted by Bill Ryan

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Posted by Turcurulin

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Posted by Bill Ryan

I'm currently trying to contact John Mercieca.

---

Hi Bill,

From post #73 of this thread, were you ever able to make this contact? Any updates, by chance?

---

No contact, and no updates; but in France next month, I have the opportunity to meet with a long-time Camelot supporter from Malta, who has the resources to help make the connection. That would be a significant step forwards in learning more about the provenance of the claimed original photo.

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Hi Bill,

Any update since last year ?

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/imag...6043cdb9fa.jpg

- EDIT -

The original photo comes from a letter received by John J. Mercieca (who was the webmaster of mufor.org at that time).

In 1998/1999, John J. Mercieca wrote:

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NOTE THAT THIS IS A SCAN OF A PHOTO OF A PHOTO (i.e. POOR QUALITY!)

Letter that came with this photo (probably a hoax):

Dear Mr.Mercieca,

I had the unique opportunity to take pictures of this old black & white original in September 1994 after a succession of meetings with an ex-military American gentleman. The American who wishes only to be known as (D.S.) was according to himself in service with the army air force based at Muroc army airforce base, California in 1947. He claims the wreckage of the craft was flown out to three separate American military establishments in the days following the crash. He says these were : Sandia Laboratories, New Mexico; Wright Field, Ohio; and Carswell Army Airforce base, Texas.

He claims he was given the photo in 1952 by a man who he later befriended and was present at the crash site.

When I first took possession of this photograph my initial intention was to prove that the photo was authentic, however, those with whom I have spoken have all reached the same conclusion which is: with the photograph being second generation, and with no original negatives available, it is virtually impossible to either confirm or deny its authenticity. The American outrightly refuses to allow the original to leave his possession in fear of it not being returned. As to whether I believe this photograph is genuine or not, all I can say is that it does appear to show a real event, i.e. real craft, real people, real terrain, etc. I believe the images depicted in the photograph represent an event that is unfolding at the time the photo was taken. During September, 1994, I did actually handle the original and did appear to be years old, just how old I cannot say. However, I only have the American's word that it is actually the Roswell crash, having said that he is 73 years old and seems sincere.

I hope this has been of some assistance. If you have any further queries or opinions concerning the photo, I will be most interested.

(N.R.H.)

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John J. Mercieca seems to be the only one who may eventually know who N.R.H. actually is.

John J. Mercieca is on Facebook: facebook.com/CydoniusElfo

My conclusions from analyzing a denoised version of a Roswell film segement

Recently Bill has posted a short movie segment showing the Roswell control panels and cross bars.
That film was fairly grainy.

I have applied some heavy temporal denoising to that film segment, to try if I can get more optical details out of it.
The result also was sent to Bill.

Currently I come to the following conclusions.

I see several hints, that the footage may be a fake:

1. Battered respiratory filter on the wall (which army would use such a respiratory filter?) (img1)

2. Judging by today's technology (2016) the interior of the control panel has a very rough structure. Some thick wires can be seen with > 1 mm diameter. One would expect that a future technology instead will use very fine structures. (img2)

3. Both panels seem to be extremely light weighted when the man is handling them.

4. Scratch marks at the palm area of the hand indent in the panel. (img2)

5. Some structures of the control panels are shaped very inaccurate. (img2)

6. A control panel which requires to hold both hands in a static position across long times seems to be very uncomfortable. If you try to hold your hands in that position you might get pain in your arms after a while.

7. Several letters or characters at the cross bar are shaped not very exactly. (img 3, img 4)
- "P" character has been made out of 3 strands of a metal wire.
- Both "double E" characters differ strongly from each other
- The left "double E" has multiple inaccuracies:

• horizontal lines too long
• horizontal lines differ in lenght
• thick end of each line, as if it was difficult to remove the "solder" when soldering the metal wire parts to the metal bar
• Artifact in the center of that character

The whole character looks like someone with bad mechanical skills has tried to make it. The other "Double E" looks much better.

Looking at the movie I currently come to the conclusion that the shown artifacts may be fakes. I would be happy when someone can add plausible arguments, that the footage may be real.

My conclusions result from some assumptions, that are clearly formed by current cultural norms. (Such as: the design should have very clear shapes, identical characters should have identical forms and so on.)

Here are some screenshots:

Sorry for coming in late here as this thread was a bit before I joined Avalon.

If memory serves, this footage was part of the infamous Santilli collection, circa 1995-7? Note the 6-fingered imprint on the control panels which matched the cadaver in the associated autopsy footage (& which caused the largest debate of not fitting with eye witness accounts of "the Roswell" crash (ie related to the Jesse Marcel incident). That particular species matched the "orange" alien; not the greys described by the original accounts. History tells us there have been several [alleged] crashes at or near Roswell around that period, not just the "famous" one. If this was part of the Santilli material, it pre-dates the more infamous Roswell crash.

(NOTE: Santilli never claimed it was from the Roswell crash - that came from everyone else ;))

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Posted by KiwiElf

If memory serves, this footage was part of the infamous Santilli collection, circa 1995-7?

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My comments on Santilli, copied from a longer post here:

The Santilli video definitely needs its own thread. The briefest comment:

As best I know, Ray Santilli, who badly mismanaged the entire thing from beginning to end, recreated much (but not all) of the footage from genuine original reels most of which were too badly decomposed to use. I have lengthy correspondence with someone, who I never met but trusted, who himself said he had spoken personally with the 1947 cameraman, whose name was Jack and who at that time (mid-2000s) was very elderly and lived in Florida. I believe he was 90-something years old, and has since passed.

My correspondent was 100% convinced the original film was real. Most significantly, a number of whistleblower witnesses have reported over the years that they had been shown something that was very similar indeed to the Santilli film in classified military briefings in the 1950s and 60s — beings that looked just like that, with 6 fingers and toes, that did NOT resemble the image we all have of 'classical Greys'... who appear to be a different type of being, at least anatomically. We have to remember that there were a number of crash retrievals in that time period: not just Roswell, by any means.

Yes. Thanks Bill - that concurs with the info I have ;)

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Posted by Bill Ryan

[...] beings that looked just like that, with 6 fingers and toes, that did NOT resemble the image we all have of 'classical Greys'... [...]

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Now, that's quite amazing!!

http://www.ufointernationalproject.c...4/12/paul1.jpg

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/cimage...oto_medium.jpg

6 fingered men do exist thought:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=cWpqyT4Qib4

Well its been six years since i originally posted on this thread and just by chance i stumbled on your recent comments Bill regarding the debris footage and alien autopsy.Last year i set up a public Facebook group for the 20th anniversary of the footage being shown around the world on August 28th 1995.
My page now goes by the name of Alien Autopsy Analysis:https://www.facebook.com/groups/1608...870/?ref=br_tf
My opinions regarding the footage can be found on the pinned post and are reprinted here: I would like to make it clear that i am of the opinion that the AA and debris footage are genuine.I believe there is an ongoing conspiracy to conceal the truth of this matter.
I recently gave a talk on this in England and will be speaking again in Birmingham in July.
There is so much to this story i don't know where to start!
I am in touch with the principle investigators including Philip Mantle,Michael Hesemann,Maurizio Baiata,Neil Morris and just recently Ed Gehrman to whom you have conversed with and met his brother.
A controversial character by the name of Spyros Melaris claimed in 2007 he was the mastermind behind this hoax.He has a book coming out about it later this year.
If you would like me to start a new page regarding these matters i would be happy to do so time permitting.

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Posted by Bluewool

Well its been six years since i originally posted on this thread and just by chance i stumbled on your recent comments Bill regarding the debris footage and alien autopsy.Last year i set up a public Facebook group for the 20th anniversary of the footage being shown around the world on August 28th 1995.
My page now goes by the name of Alien Autopsy Analysis:https://www.facebook.com/groups/1608...870/?ref=br_tf
My opinions regarding the footage can be found on the pinned post and are reprinted here: I would like to make it clear that i am of the opinion that the AA and debris footage are genuine.I believe there is an ongoing conspiracy to conceal the truth of this matter.
I recently gave a talk on this in England and will be speaking again in Birmingham in July.
There is so much to this story i don't know where to start!
I am in touch with the principle investigators including Philip Mantle,Michael Hesemann,Maurizio Baiata,Neil Morris and just recently Ed Gehrman to whom you have conversed with and met his brother.
A controversial character by the name of Spyros Melaris claimed in 2007 he was the mastermind behind this hoax.He has a book coming out about it later this year.
If you would like me to start a new page regarding these matters i would be happy to do so time permitting.

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Thanks, and most interesting. Yes, I have all my detailed correspondence with Ed Gehrman — though I never met him in person. (As you mentioned, Kerry and I did spend a more-than-fascinating day with his brother in New Mexico, a quite different story not fully told, where he took us to the little-known Nogal Canyon crash site and we filmed some trees that had been burned from above.)

Ed is the person who had in turn talked on the phone and corresponded with Jack, the autopsy cameraman, who lived at that time in Florida (passed now). Ed was 100% convinced the [original, unedited] autopsy film was real.

I'd welcome a new thread on this... thank you. If you start one, the mods can easily also copy over various posts from other threads to fill in the story for focused discussion. :thumbsup:

Roswell has had many tales told. Yet lets not forget that this event, if true, may not be the first, after all if these so name UFOs, have appeared in ancient drawings going back thousands of years and precluding this, one could speculate UFOs could of been around before recorded history and even before man existed on this world. Hence all this said, it is quite possible if UFOs have crashed which is quite possible, one may of crashed in times past, be it in mans recorded history, and even pre man, so it begs the question has someone found such wreckage and kept it secret?

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Posted by bogeyman

Roswell has had many tales told. Yet lets not forget that this event, if true, may not be the first, after all if these so name UFOs, have appeared in ancient drawings going back thousands of years and precluding this, one could speculate UFOs could of been around before recorded history and even before man existed on this world. Hence all this said, it is quite possible if UFOs have crashed which is quite possible, one may of crashed in times past, be it in mans recorded history, and even pre man, so it begs the question has someone found such wreckage and kept it secret?

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Certainly not the first UFO crash, or the only one - just the most infamous: ;)

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...lien-Occupants

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...Secret-S4-Base

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...s-of-Deception

Clifford Stone mentions 3 or 4 crash retrievals he was involved with.

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Posted by Studeo

Roswell Alien Interview.

Here is a followup to the Roswell incident. I found it on the PC forum posted by Highwhistler.

It is the transcript from Army nurse Matilda O'Donnell MacElroy, who interviewed the pilot of the UFO that crashed in Roswell in 1947. This is a non-fiction, biographical book.

Alien interview intro letter.

Attachment 2463

Full transcript here.

Attachment 2464

I contacted Lawrence Spencer, the person who received the transcripts, and he seems to be a truthful, authentic person who has done his very best to share the documents accurately -- as he received them -- and he included hundreds of footnotes within the book, that help verify the information.

Below is a link to Lawrence, the editor, being interviewed by Ohio Exopolitics.

I pieced this mp3 together from 3 different interviews. It is 3 hours in length, but its a highly interesting conversation. Listening to this helps describe and clarify the incredible information in Alien Interview, and you can decide for yourself if Lawrence is authentic, or not.

http://www.soulconnection.net/downlo...erviews123.mp3

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:bump::bump::bump:

I read this quite a few years ago, and recommend it to anyone who is curious about et interactions here on Earth... I hope that it never finds it's way to a location where it can not be accessed...

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Posted by Denise/Dizi

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Posted by Studeo

Roswell Alien Interview.

Here is a followup to the Roswell incident. I found it on the PC forum posted by Highwhistler.

It is the transcript from Army nurse Matilda O'Donnell MacElroy, who interviewed the pilot of the UFO that crashed in Roswell in 1947. This is a non-fiction, biographical book.

Alien interview intro letter.

Attachment 2463

Full transcript here.

Attachment 2464

I contacted Lawrence Spencer, the person who received the transcripts, and he seems to be a truthful, authentic person who has done his very best to share the documents accurately -- as he received them -- and he included hundreds of footnotes within the book, that help verify the information.

Below is a link to Lawrence, the editor, being interviewed by Ohio Exopolitics.

I pieced this mp3 together from 3 different interviews. It is 3 hours in length, but its a highly interesting conversation. Listening to this helps describe and clarify the incredible information in Alien Interview, and you can decide for yourself if Lawrence is authentic, or not.

http://www.soulconnection.net/downlo...erviews123.mp3

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:bump::bump::bump:

I read this quite a few years ago, and recommend it to anyone who is curious about et interactions here on Earth... I hope that it never finds it's way to a location where it can not be accessed...

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No no no :heart: — that story was all 100% invented. Absolutely, for sure. See this thread:

• HOAX: Lawrence Spencer's 'ALIEN INTERVIEW'

HI Bill .. Thank You for the clarification...

I saw that you had confirmed that the story was all a hoax, But I was a "bad member" and while short of time, I was skipping here and there and landed on THAT long after I had made my post... OOPS... Thank You for making sure I saw that!:facepalm: