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With regard to the continuous spewing of the mostly unverified & jingoistic propaganda appearing in this thread, this is what's actually important...
Quote:
Posted by ByTheNorthernSea
This is a war that should not be happening in the 21st century, whatever it's roots may be...
A whole nation is being ripped to sheds in front of eyes here, and all some here can do, it seems, is fall back on the care worn & morally bankrupt divisions of the past, pushing the old divisions deeper. Frankly it's depressing AF to see here on Avalon.
So from this perspective I challenge all contributing here to post also any & all efforts they see being made towards peace, from whatever (verified where possible) sources, to counter the distorted 'fog of war' narrative currently on display.
Last - again addressed to anyone reading this - most don't want this conflict, and if you do, then I'd say you belong in a different time, a different era...if / when you finally return there (sooner rather than later I'd hope), then please close the door behind you, don't ever return, and allow the rest of us to live our lives in peace... finally....
Quote:
Posted by Bill RyanAn interesting question to ask, maybe:Quote:
Posted by ByTheNorthernSea
This is a war that should not be happening in the 21st century, whatever it's roots may be...
A whole nation is being ripped to sheds in front of eyes here, and all some here can do, it seems, is fall back on the care worn & morally bankrupt divisions of the past, pushing the old divisions deeper. Frankly it's depressing AF to see here on Avalon.
So from this perspective I challenge all contributing here to post also any & all efforts they see being made towards peace, from whatever (verified where possible) sources, to counter the distorted 'fog of war' narrative currently on display.
Last - again addressed to anyone reading this - most don't want this conflict, and if you do, then I'd say you belong in a different time, a different era...if / when you finally return there (sooner rather than later I'd hope), then please close the door behind you, don't ever return, and allow the rest of us to live our lives in peace... finally....
What point in history would you like to turn the clock back to, to "return to peace"? (And also, where?)
Many thanks, and I think almost everyone here would agree with that fully. :highfive:Quote:
Posted by ByTheNorthernSeaOf course there's no point in history which you could "return to peace"...and I didn't say that. I was expressing my long-held desire (however unlikely it is to be satisfied) for a future where the war-mongers, their cheer leaders & their supporters amongst us go & make war somewhere else, leaving the rest of us in peace...most would surely agree with this?Quote:
Posted by Bill Ryan
What's true though (in contrast to much of the partisan war reporting I'm seeing on this thread) is that human nature, as it is, probably won't allow this any time soon. A fundamental shift in consciousness is needed to make this kind of vision a reality...just how that can be achieved as things worsen I really don't know.
Another couple of questions to ask — but maybe rhetorical ones! :) — might be:
- How does one resolve differences between long-established cultural groups, establishing (a) real justice, and (b) real liberty?
- What circumstances or conditions would have to prevail on Planet Earth in order for that to be possible?
This has always been the perennial problem, the warlike hostility between different factions, economic, religious, cultural differences seem to always create this - until everyone has access to food/shelter/cheap energy this will continue, that and the capacity to co-exist: Didn't that fellow Jesus Christ attempt to reconcile all of this 2,000 years ago, Love one another and live in peace, did not end well for him. Fusion generated electricity might go a long way, 'alien technologies'?
New from Russia Today: (which has been censored in some western countries)
Ukraine and Russia close to agreement on ‘critical’ issues, Turkey says
Ankara is ‘hopeful of a ceasefire’ if both sides remain where they are on key issues
Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu has said Ukraine and Russia are nearing agreement on “critical” issues and that Ankara believes a ceasefire is possible provided neither side decides to backtrack.
In an interview with Turkish daily Hurriyet on Sunday, Cavusoglu, who traveled to Moscow and Kiev for meetings last week, said there had been “rapprochement in the positions of both sides on important subjects, critical subjects.”
“We can say we are hopeful for a ceasefire if the sides do not take a step back from the current positions,” he added, without offering further details.
Turkish presidential spokesman Ibrahim Kalin told Al Jazeera, however, that Moscow and Kiev were close on four main issues, citing Russia’s red line of Ukraine vowing not to join NATO, demilitarization and “denazification” of the country, and the protection of the Russian language.
Kalin said a permanent ceasefire would have to come through a direct meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin and his Ukrainian counterpart Volodymyr Zelensky, Reuters reported. Ukrainian presidential aide Mikhail Podolyak said on Thursday that Zelensky could meet Putin “in the coming weeks” but only if a peace treaty was ready.
Several rounds of talks between the Russian and Ukrainian delegations in Belarus have failed to produce breakthroughs, but have led to cooperation on organizing humanitarian corridors for the evacuation of civilians.
Last week, the Financial Times reported that “significant” progress had been made in the talks and that a 15-point plan had been drafted. However, the report was refuted by both Moscow and Kiev.
Moscow attacked its neighbor in late February, following a seven-year standoff over Ukraine’s failure to implement the terms of the Minsk agreements, and Russia’s eventual recognition of the Donbass republics in Donetsk and Lugansk.
Russia has now demanded that Ukraine officially declare itself a neutral country that will never join the US-led NATO military bloc, while Kiev insists the Russian offensive was completely unprovoked and has denied assumptions it was planning to retake the two breakaway regions by force.
And in some contrast:Quote:
Posted by Bill Ryan
Zelensky Says WWIII Assured if Negotiations with Russia Break Down
Extracted from the article, Zelensky said:I think that we have to use any format, any chance in order to have a possibility of negotiating, possibility of talking to Putin.
But if these attempts fail, that would mean that this is a Third World War.
~~~
So here's another question, for anyone who might care to take a good look and attempt an answer:Who on the planet might be trying to start a Third World War? And why?
Quote:
Posted by Bill RyanAnd in some contrast:Quote:
Posted by Bill Ryan
Zelensky Says WWIII Assured if Negotiations with Russia Break Down
Extracted from the article, Zelensky said:I think that we have to use any format, any chance in order to have a possibility of negotiating, possibility of talking to Putin.
But if these attempts fail, that would mean that this is a Third World War.
~~~
So here's another question, for anyone who might care to take a good look and attempt an answer:Who on the planet might be trying to start a Third World War? And why?
Good question - because wouldn't WW3 scupper the Great Reset - the infrastructure needed to facilitate it would be wrecked...?
I am heartily sick of Zelensky and his political performances choreographed by the WEF and other Shadowy Groups.... perhaps he has been told to really push the fear of WW3 and out and out war but has been assured it won't happen militarily - but will happen in all other ways... economically, isolation etc..
Basically I think the Globalists want Russia, the land and the people, under their brainwashing control - want Putin gone because he stands in their way - but they won't want Russia destroyed... especially by nuclear devastation...... so maybe it's a fear mongering exercise ?? (not sure and I'm trying to work it out - but I go back to my first point that WW3 would scupper their precious Great Reset and they would all have to scurry underground)
Quote:
Posted by ByTheNorthernSea
This is a war that should not be happening in the 21st century, whatever it's roots may be...
A whole nation is being ripped to sheds in front of eyes here, and all some here can do, it seems, is fall back on the care worn & morally bankrupt divisions of the past, pushing the old divisions deeper. Frankly it's depressing AF to see here on Avalon.
So from this perspective I challenge all contributing here to post also any & all efforts they see being made towards peace, from whatever (verified where possible) sources, to counter the distorted 'fog of war' narrative currently on display.
Last - again addressed to anyone reading this - most don't want this conflict, and if you do, then I'd say you belong in a different time, a different era...if / when you finally return there (sooner rather than later I'd hope), then please close the door behind you, don't ever return, and allow the rest of us to live our lives in peace... finally....
- U.S.'s Bloody Fingerprints Are All Over Ukraine:
In the ongoing Russia-Ukraine conflict, the US and NATO like to depict themselves as innocent lambs, desperate to provide whatever aid is necessary to the beleaguered Ukrainian people to help them push back against the evil Russian aggressors. The truth, of course, is quite different, as writer Jonathan Cook details in an exhaustive piece for MintPress News describing the myriad offenses the US and its NATO allies have committed in recent years to put Ukrainians in the peril they find themselves in today.
Peace is not a contract, it's a state of the human heart, shared.
Computers can't burst into genuine laughter either, but they can do a wicked job of faking it.
A possible answer, from Consortium News; (Of course, then we have to ask who's giving orders to the US Media)Quote:
Posted by Bill Ryan
https://consortiumnews.com/2022/03/2...-world-war-iii
US Media Pushing for World War III
Rather than neutrally trying to get the facts, the White House reporters have become unabashed activists for going to war with Russia.
In the run-up to and during the Bush administration’s catastrophic invasion of Iraq, corporate media outlets were accused of acting as stenographers for the White House, amplifying official justifications for the attack—which were lies—while stifling dissenting voices.
Today, having apparently learned no lessons—or the wrong ones—from Iraq, reporters for corporate newspapers and cable TV programs are yet again facing criticism for their coverage of a war, this time one in which the White House has vowed not to involve U.S. troops.
“Much of cable news has become nonstop cheerleading for the U.S. to declare war on Russia.”
During briefings held at the White House over the past week as Russia ramped up its assault on Ukraine, correspondents have incessantly pushed Press Secretary Jen Psaki on President Joe Biden’s refusal to escalate U.S. involvement in the war even further, questioning the administration’s refusal to impose a no-fly zone and send MiG-29 fighter jets to Ukraine.
By contrast, very few questions have centered on the diplomatic talks between Russia and Ukraine and what the U.S. is doing to facilitate the ongoing negotiations.
“Even with this additional aid that you’re providing today, it seems there are still other options on the table,” ABC News correspondent Mary Bruce said during a press briefing Wednesday after President Joe Biden authorized another $800 million worth of weaponry for Ukraine, including drones and anti-aircraft systems.
“So why hold back?” Bruce asked. “Why not use every tool at your disposal now to spare additional lives?”
When Psaki outlined the slew of measures the U.S. has taken in concert with Western allies to cripple Russia’s economy and bolster Ukraine’s defenses—and noted there are additional steps the administration could take in the future—Bruce was not assuaged.
“But what are you waiting for?” she asked.
https://twitter.com/CurtisHouck/stat...77255521693696
Quote:
Posted by ExomatrixTV
First we had the Anti Trump super psyop - then the Covid / vaccine super psyop - now we have the Ukraine (anti Russia and Putin) super psyop - as the wannabe NWO world dictators play political chess with Ukraine - and it looks like they are trying to turn it into a messy battlefield full of various factions keeping it all going for as long as necessary, like they did with other countries like Iraq, Libya and Syria.... they don't care about Ukraine People and just want to use the country as a way to regime change Russia and take the land and resources to facilitate their One World Govt. and Digital Currency - and other nefarious plots like transhumanism - (IMO)...
- Video: White House Press Wants MORE WAR:
White House reporters love two things more than any others – getting to be on camera when they ask questions, and war. And thanks to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, the current crop of predominantly women who comprise the White House press pool have been able to explore both their great loves. In a recent briefing, one reporter after the other grilled White House press secretary Jen Psaki about why the Biden administration isn’t pushing to escalate the conflict, either by funneling more armaments and aircraft to Ukraine, establishing a no-fly zone or getting US troops directly involved.
https://m.jpost.com/international/article-701770
US suggests Turkey to transfer Russian-made missile defense system to Ukraine
By REUTERS Published: MARCH 20, 2022 02:19
Updated: MARCH 20, 2022 15:50
Turkish authorities have not commented on any US suggestion or proposal relating to the transfer to Ukraine of Ankara's S-400 systems.
The United States has informally raised with Turkey the unlikely possibility of sending its Russian-made S-400 missile defense systems to Ukraine to help it fight the invading Russian forces, according to three sources familiar with the matter.
US officials have floated the suggestion over the past month with their Turkish counterparts but no specific or formal request was made, the sources told Reuters. They said it also came up briefly during Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman's visit to Turkey earlier this month.
The Biden administration has been asking allies who have been using Russian-made equipment and systems including S-300s and S-400s to consider transferring them to Ukraine as it tries to fend off a Russian invasion that began on Feb. 24.
The idea, which analysts said was sure to be shot down by Turkey, was part of a wider discussion between Sherman and Turkish officials about how the United States and its allies can do more to support Ukraine and on how to improve bilateral ties.
The Turkish authorities have not commented on any US suggestion or proposal relating to the transfer to Ukraine of Ankara's S-400 systems, which have been a point of long-standing contention between the two NATO allies.
(Rest of article follow link above)
Gonzalo Lira is on with George Galloway, live right now on Galloway's talk show. Gonzalo came in 30 minutes after the start of the stream.
For anyone struggling with Galloway's very rich Scottish accent, just click the 'CC' button and real-time (sometimes best-guess :) ) captions will be right there. I'm assuming the link will be the same after the livestream has ended.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=QiK7rUH9nws
Edit to add:
Gonzalo has just finished after a 23 minute segment in which he presented the basics of the conflict so far (and some of Zelinsky's background as well), as crystal-clearly and concisely as anyone I've yet heard.
For anyone who doesn't really know what's actually happening in Ukraine, or is believing the western mainstream's very controlled in-lockstep narrative, those 23 minutes may be an excellent intro.
:thumbsup: