Quote:
Posted by
Tintin
Why didn't you post your frustrations and concerns on the
Racism thread?
I assume the point of this brand new thread is to provoke, as opposed to inspire a grown up conversation, otherwise, what is the point of this brand new thread?
You are assuming incorrectly. I am posting an immigration topic: The president is signing an order to suspend ALL immigration in the country. We do not yet know what this will look like but given that they are not currently processing green cards, of people currently in the country legally(my wife) or of people outside the country seeking to be in America legally. Since this is the Immigration subforum and my topic is about immigration is particular. I would suggest that I am in the right place to post and discuss this issue.
I also take offence at you calling me a child here. Un called for.
I think it is interesting that you think it should be posted in the Racism thread. Why would say that? Is something about banning all immigration racist in some way?
Quote:
Posted by
Tintin
You need to define and clarify your terminology? Branding anybody who is fair skinned and claims a European descent and then by more than just implying, by actually outrightly stating that they are 'white nationalists' according to your list of criteria - or, kindly, ill advised and not very bright pronouncements - only serves to provoke ire and pushback, thereby fuelling any prejudices you do seem, on the surface, to be already encumbered by.
I am very happy that you asked this. I would love to explain my terms and why I come to use them the way I do. Please be forewarned that there will be offensive language because I am about to discuss the past and how humans of a certain descent were treated by other humans who supposed themselves better than those aforementioned humans.
In order to properly understand what I am about to talk about and to not be labelled a racist like many have already accused me of I am going to have to give you some history of Haiti, in particular the Haitian revolution.
You may or may not know that Haiti used to be a colony of Anciene Regime France, which means the Bourbons who ruled the country for several hundred years before until the French revolution. I am sure you are aware of this event so i will not go into detail on that.
What you may not know is that one of the consequences of the revolution was big changes in the colonies of the french Kingdom. The long and short of it was that a class system that had developed based the color of skin and heritage of person determined the set of rights they were to be afforded under both the Bourbons and then under the Republic. When the revolution happened, this system was re evaluated but not as drastically as many had wanted. In the past and even into the republican France period, they had terms like "White" "Colored" "Black" "Mulato" "Quadrune" and these terms would describe to what degree your ancestry had black or slaves in them(they even went to like 1/364 extent to name the level of color you were). So the these classifications of people based on culturally defined categories was very repressive and arbitrary and primarily was in place because of economic necessity; It was very hard work to grow, harvest, and process sugar cane.
One of the most interesting parts of the Haitian revolution is how "the enemy of the my enemy" caused flip flops in circumstances as the turmoil of the French revolution devoured its children like Saturn. Envoys from one revolutionary government would be sent only to be overthrown and have new envoys sent to change the orders. As a result, freedom was granted to different groups and rescinded at different times. There were times when Coloreds and White would work together and then others where it was Coloreds and Blacks, only to have that devolve into civil war because the Coloreds were just replacing the old White in the same economic system. I very much recommend a Podcast Called Revolutions by Mike Duncan. He goes through this is excellent detail and it really made me appreciate the fight for liberty and equality that the people of Haiti went through.
So once you understand these color terms that are being applied to people of the Haitian revolution it starts to become easier to see that maybe the term WHITE can be aggressive to people and maybe it should not exist in the same way that COLORED or BLACK or MULATO should not exist. They are offensive and repressive abstractions that are set in place by
force by the dominant IN GROUP and are a relic of past regimes.
This DOES NOT mean that any human that is from European Descent should be killed or have their ways of living and cultural heritage destroyed.
This DOES NOT mean that any human that is from European Descent should be killed or have their ways of living and cultural heritage destroyed.
This DOES NOT mean that any human that is from European Descent should be killed or have their ways of living and cultural heritage destroyed.
This DOES NOT mean that any human that is from European Descent should be killed or have their ways of living and cultural heritage destroyed.
This DOES NOT mean that any human that is from European Descent should be killed or have their ways of living and cultural heritage destroyed.
This DOES NOT mean that any human that is from European Descent should be killed or have their ways of living and cultural heritage destroyed.
This DOES NOT mean that any human that is from European Descent should be killed or have their ways of living and cultural heritage destroyed.
I felt I need to spam and repeat that to avoid what I know many are going to say I am.
To destroy WHITE is only to destroy an idea, a concept of oppression.
It is removing the mental system of oppression that is built in to the term just like the slaves in Haiti throwing off the oppression of their WHITE masters( AGAIN this has nothing to do with the color of their skin or their french heritage). It does happen to overlap but they were terms of convenience that got codified(the census?) into the law by the repressive and oppressive regime of Bourbon and early republican france.
To truly illustrate this I will return to my OP
When they first arrived in America, many Irish and Italians were not considered to be WHITE. They experienced a lot of racism from the humans that were already in America who didnt like new humans coming.
So they found a way to make them the out group by calling them not WHITE enough. It was only later that Irish and Italian are now considered WHITE(this again has nothing to do with the color of your skin or of your ancestry, it happens to be what the group with the monopoly on force calls the IN GROUP right now).
Am I mis characterizing what Irish People and Italians People went through when they came to America? I do not feel so.
Now, I posted this because I am very upset that this Immigration thing is happening and the Stephen Miller and Trump are finally getting truly what they wanted: no more immigrants coming AT ALL. We dont quite know the specifics but given the past track record of immigration policies from this Admin, I dont expect it to be favorable to people like my wife.
I am quite unhappy with Tintin calling me both a racist and a child in this thread.
I expect after this post an apology from them. How dare you say I am a bigot and a racist that is incapable of having "an adult conversation"
EDIT**
I will admit the title of the thread was poorly chosen and I was very agitated . I would be happy to have it changed to : "POTUS will sign order banning ALL immigration to the US"
