Counter Balance

People need to realize that this site is a very cohesive group, a group that basically believes the same and enjoys doing so. But being part of a cohesive group also invites danger of suppressed free thinking.

I was once a "good little member" of this community but after deciding that logic also has its place, I was rather discarded and seem to be a poison in many people's eyes. But the truth is, if you are after truth then there is nothing to worry about with me. But if critical thinking skills are thrown to the wind then you should be glad someone like me is around.

Ask yourself, are you after truth or just pushing a belief you want to believe in? I'm after truth, I don't care where it leads me. How about you?

These are some excerpts from business thoughts on cohesive groups....

"...Groupthink occurs when group members are reluctant to express dissenting opinions to avoid causing disharmony within a cohesive group. Opinions held by the majority or by key group members are regarded as unanimous and alternative views are discouraged.

...Members of cohesive groups rely heavily on each other and resist external ideas and input. This can lead to isolation and a feeling of superiority over others in the organizations. As a result, cohesive groups find it difficult to change their values, actions or behaviors, particularly when the change is driven by external forces. Even if an individual member of the group becomes convinced of the need for change, he may find it difficult to put into practice due to the strength of the group dynamic......"

Just because someone is a pilot, general in the Army, or a scientist does not mean they are any more of an expert in a field that someone intensely studying that particular subject. Simply put, think for yourself. If something does not sound right, do not be afraid to think otherwise.

People on this site are of good heart imo, but critical thinking really needs to be re-imposed to keep a good counter balance of "this side" (i.e. physical), and "that side (i.e. astral). The rules in here do not bend like the rules over there...

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Groupthink occurs when group members are reluctant to express dissenting opinions to avoid causing disharmony within a cohesive group. Opinions held by the majority or by key group members are regarded as unanimous and alternative views are discouraged.

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It's so important to remember this...:o Thanks for your thoughts!

On the Lindsey Williams thread, my perception of what you posted in response to me indicated that you had no understanding at all about what I had said. I am thinking that possibly your attitude about what is said here is filtered through your comprehension or lack thereof?

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Posted by Oouthere

People need to realize that this site is a very cohesive group, a group that basically believes the same and enjoys doing so. But being part of a cohesive group also invites danger of suppressed free thinking.

I was once a "good little member" of this community but after deciding that logic also has its place, I was rather discarded and seem to be a poison in many people's eyes. But the truth is, if you are after truth then there is nothing to worry about with me. But if critical thinking skills are thrown to the wind then you should be glad someone like me is around.

Ask yourself, are you after truth or just pushing a belief you want to believe in? I'm after truth, I don't care where it leads me. How about you?

These are some excerpts from business thoughts on cohesive groups....

"...Groupthink occurs when group members are reluctant to express dissenting opinions to avoid causing disharmony within a cohesive group. Opinions held by the majority or by key group members are regarded as unanimous and alternative views are discouraged.

...Members of cohesive groups rely heavily on each other and resist external ideas and input. This can lead to isolation and a feeling of superiority over others in the organizations. As a result, cohesive groups find it difficult to change their values, actions or behaviors, particularly when the change is driven by external forces. Even if an individual member of the group becomes convinced of the need for change, he may find it difficult to put into practice due to the strength of the group dynamic......"

Just because someone is a pilot, general in the Army, or a scientist does not mean they are any more of an expert in a field that someone intensely studying that particular subject. Simply put, think for yourself. If something does not sound right, do not be afraid to think otherwise.

People on this site are of good heart imo, but critical thinking really needs to be re-imposed to keep a good counter balance of "this side" (i.e. physical), and "that side (i.e. astral). The rules in here do not bend like the rules over there...

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Hello Oouthere

There are thousands and thousands of books, videos, blogs, web sites and people all proclaiming to know the truth, which truth or belief are you searching for? I have been scouring the internet for months trying to find truths but every time I think I have a good understanding of something, there is an equally valid truth to counter that which I thought I already had. I have found that observation and partial bits of information have led me to find some of the pieces I have been looking for.

We all find our truths differently through many means, these truths are what gets us through each and everyday. The question is what truth do you seek or are willing to believe? We can then theoretically build around these criteria with all the information you want from a vast collection of beliefs and literature.

How many people do you think actually listens to Lindsey Williams? How many times has the main stream media highlighted his information? We are of little or no consequence to those that pull the strings. Most consider us fringe and not right in the mind for believing outside of the mainstream.

I understood exactly what you were getting at, but what I'm saying is why can't a person simply have acquaintances in high places that are simply friends? I do not see a conspiracy in everything, most things happen simply because it is human nature and not some divine/evil plan ruling over everything. At least that's what the evidence shows. There are certainly evil people in high places but there are also good ones as well.

But yes, my perception (just like everyone else's) is filtered through all of my physical and experiential filters. That's why when I see RB-211 engine parts laying around in Pentagon photographs I conclude that a 757 hit the Pentagon. All but a handful jump to some other conclusion that in no way can account for all of the physical details. So who has faulty comprehension, the one that takes physical evidence for what it is or one that has to jump through invisible hoops with unknown technology to simulate such "circumstantial" evidence?

Hi Powessy,

To me that's exactly what a person should do, and that's what I do. You can ask anyone that knows me if I will change my mind when evidence is provided that contradicts my previous beliefs. I do not see a lot of people doing that though.

If someone tells me to call on Jesus and he will save you in time of need, and I can find numerous reports of Christian missionaries being killed simply for being Christian....I'd say that advice has a major fallacy. If someone tells me that if you do not accept "insert appropriate god name here" you will die, disappear, burn in hell or whatever else then I'd suggest that is a major fallacy. How can god say, "Well, they didn't know about _______, too bad they weren't even born yet. But hey, rules are rules." I think that is a major fallacy.

But anyway, I long for information that cannot be disproven because there's not much of it around in the astral though there is plenty in the physical.

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Posted by powessy

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Posted by Oouthere

People need to realize that this site is a very cohesive group, a group that basically believes the same and enjoys doing so. But being part of a cohesive group also invites danger of suppressed free thinking.

I was once a "good little member" of this community but after deciding that logic also has its place, I was rather discarded and seem to be a poison in many people's eyes. But the truth is, if you are after truth then there is nothing to worry about with me. But if critical thinking skills are thrown to the wind then you should be glad someone like me is around.

Ask yourself, are you after truth or just pushing a belief you want to believe in? I'm after truth, I don't care where it leads me. How about you?

These are some excerpts from business thoughts on cohesive groups....

"...Groupthink occurs when group members are reluctant to express dissenting opinions to avoid causing disharmony within a cohesive group. Opinions held by the majority or by key group members are regarded as unanimous and alternative views are discouraged.

...Members of cohesive groups rely heavily on each other and resist external ideas and input. This can lead to isolation and a feeling of superiority over others in the organizations. As a result, cohesive groups find it difficult to change their values, actions or behaviors, particularly when the change is driven by external forces. Even if an individual member of the group becomes convinced of the need for change, he may find it difficult to put into practice due to the strength of the group dynamic......"

Just because someone is a pilot, general in the Army, or a scientist does not mean they are any more of an expert in a field that someone intensely studying that particular subject. Simply put, think for yourself. If something does not sound right, do not be afraid to think otherwise.

People on this site are of good heart imo, but critical thinking really needs to be re-imposed to keep a good counter balance of "this side" (i.e. physical), and "that side (i.e. astral). The rules in here do not bend like the rules over there...

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Hello Oouthere

There are thousands and thousands of books, videos, blogs, web sites and people all proclaiming to know the truth, which truth or belief are you searching for? I have been scouring the internet for months trying to find truths but every time I think I have a good understanding of something, there is an equally valid truth to counter that which I thought I already had. I have found that observation and partial bits of information have led me to find some of the pieces I have been looking for.

We all find our truths differently through many means, these truths are what gets us through each and everyday. The question is what truth do you seek or are willing to believe? We can then theoretically build around these criteria with all the information you want from a vast collection of beliefs and literature.

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Well said.

The "Truth" cannot be conveyed in words, in movies, in music, in math; in it's entirely it cannot even be conceptualized within linguistically structured thought. It may be that thinking that we will find it in this way is hampering our efforts to "find" it ;)
Few are searching for their truths within present centered "experience", which is, in my opinion a far better place to start looking. ;)

So when we speak of "Truths" in the 3D realm, we all have to keep in mind that the "Truth" cannot be found, it will continue to develop and change and manifest as our conscious experiences grows to envelope and understand more and more, the "Truth" actually "IS" the experience of the present moment. It is not some finite, measurable thing that one can "attain" in completeness; As Powessy said, finding one will always open a plethora of new questions - this process does not end.

If we drill down until we get to binary questions, (we call these "facts"), we get exciting new glimpses of the "Truth", right? For example, let's say we have drilled down to the binary question, "Do ETs exists on Earth?" and we all agree the answer is "yes" and we finally have verifiable proof, look how many new questions that opens up. You get further and further from the truth often, because usually more than one question opens up for each binary question answered.

"Believe Nothing, Consider Everything" and learn the value of centered experience is what I am striving for. My 2 cents ;)


Anyway, I tangent-ed a little there for the main topic ... =)

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Posted by DeDukshyn

Well said.

The "Truth" cannot be conveyed in words, in movies, in music, in math; in it's entirely it cannot even be conceptualized within linguistically structured thought. It may be that thinking that we will find it in this way is hampering our efforts to "find" it ;)
Few are searching for their truths within present centered "experience", which is, in my opinion a far better place to start looking. ;)

So when we speak of "Truths" in the 3D realm, we all have to keep in mind that the "Truth" cannot be found, it will continue to develop and change and manifest as our conscious experiences grows to envelope and understand more and more, the "Truth" actually "IS" the experience of the present moment. It is not some finite, measurable thing that one can "attain" in completeness; As Powessy said, finding one will always open a plethora of new questions - this process does not end.

If we drill down until we get to binary questions, (we call these "facts"), we get exciting new glimpses of the "Truth", right? For example, let's say we have drilled down to the binary question, "Do ETs exists on Earth?" and we all agree the answer is "yes" and we finally have verifiable proof, look how many new questions that opens up. You get further and further from the truth often, because usually more than one question opens up for each binary question answered.

"Believe Nothing, Consider Everything" and learn the value of centered experience is what I am striving for. My 2 cents ;)


Anyway, I tangent-ed a little there for the main topic ... =)

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Hello DeDukshyn

I have stopped looking for truths provided by others and have decided to seek the truths that are presented to me through meditation and center balance. Truth is what each and everyone of us is willing to accept through life experiences and societal influences. A child born to a normal christian family will most likely follow that path and those installed beliefs. Even if we are presented with the truth would we believe all of it, or would we continue to question it twisting it till it meets our own liking. So for truth, I believe it is only a carrot in front of the proverbial ass, it is when we silence our minds and remove the mind chains formed by a lifetime of distractions that we will then finally just realize we can reach out and eat that damn carrot with ease.

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Posted by Oouthere

Hi Powessy,

To me that's exactly what a person should do, and that's what I do. You can ask anyone that knows me if I will change my mind when evidence is provided that contradicts my previous beliefs. I do not see a lot of people doing that though.

If someone tells me to call on Jesus and he will save you in time of need, and I can find numerous reports of Christian missionaries being killed simply for being Christian....I'd say that advice has a major fallacy. If someone tells me that if you do not accept "insert appropriate god name here" you will die, disappear, burn in hell or whatever else then I'd suggest that is a major fallacy. How can god say, "Well, they didn't know about _______, too bad they weren't even born yet. But hey, rules are rules." I think that is a major fallacy.

But anyway, I long for information that cannot be disproven because there's not much of it around in the astral though there is plenty in the physical.

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Hello Oouthere

Do you have a closeness or affinity to the astral, if you do I will talk of this. I am sick of the truths presented here in the physical, lets try and see what truths are to be found in the astral.

I will start with a truth about the astral, one I have come to believe since I have spent most of my life there.

Truth number 1{ The astral is only a tool for learning and communicating between here and the veil. }

if you agree then thank me for this post, if you do not agree then thank my next post

Truth number 1{ The astral is only a tool for learning and communicating between here and the veil. }

if you disagree with this then thank me for this post. please explain your experiences and how you came to your belief.

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Posted by powessy

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Posted by DeDukshyn

Well said.

The "Truth" cannot be conveyed in words, in movies, in music, in math; in it's entirely it cannot even be conceptualized within linguistically structured thought. It may be that thinking that we will find it in this way is hampering our efforts to "find" it ;)
Few are searching for their truths within present centered "experience", which is, in my opinion a far better place to start looking. ;)

So when we speak of "Truths" in the 3D realm, we all have to keep in mind that the "Truth" cannot be found, it will continue to develop and change and manifest as our conscious experiences grows to envelope and understand more and more, the "Truth" actually "IS" the experience of the present moment. It is not some finite, measurable thing that one can "attain" in completeness; As Powessy said, finding one will always open a plethora of new questions - this process does not end.

If we drill down until we get to binary questions, (we call these "facts"), we get exciting new glimpses of the "Truth", right? For example, let's say we have drilled down to the binary question, "Do ETs exists on Earth?" and we all agree the answer is "yes" and we finally have verifiable proof, look how many new questions that opens up. You get further and further from the truth often, because usually more than one question opens up for each binary question answered.

"Believe Nothing, Consider Everything" and learn the value of centered experience is what I am striving for. My 2 cents ;)


Anyway, I tangent-ed a little there for the main topic ... =)

---

Hello DeDukshyn

I have stopped looking for truths provided by others and have decided to seek the truths that are presented to me through meditation and center balance. Truth is what each and everyone of us is willing to accept through life experiences and societal influences. A child born to a normal christian family will most likely follow that path and those installed beliefs. Even if we are presented with the truth would we believe all of it, or would we continue to question it twisting it till it meets our own liking. So for truth, I believe it is only a carrot in front of the proverbial ass, it is when we silence our minds and remove the mind chains formed by a lifetime of distractions that we will then finally just realize we can reach out and eat that damn carrot with ease.

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I would say I concur with your implication - the truth is a bit like that greener grass on the other side. And add that at times the chasing of that carrot is a reward in itself, the value of what there is. It can lead on some great adventures, lest we not forget the fact we are just on an adventure! (which we do to our detriment - it's a rather persistent illusion, this thing we call reality ;))

Hiya Powessy,

I only see reality as here and there, else my sanity and ability to function in both would have disappeared a long time ago. The universal mind experiences allowed me to understand that everything is consciousness and not necessarily energy as is usually taught.

At one time I meditated daily but finally got to a point that my mind never rested because of seldom losing consciousness. I spent so much time on the other side while fully conscious that the lines started becoming blurred. That's when you understand that what "they" show you does not necessarily apply here.

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Posted by Oouthere

Hiya Powessy,

I only see reality as here and there, else my sanity and ability to function in both would have disappeared a long time ago. The universal mind experiences allowed me to understand that everything is consciousness and not necessarily energy as is usually taught.

At one time I meditated daily but finally got to a point that my mind never rested because of seldom losing consciousness. I spent so much time on the other side while fully conscious that the lines started becoming blurred. That's when you understand that what "they" show you does not necessarily apply here.

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I have grown up on both sides, so for now my sanity is in check. There it is a different place, but it may contain the answers I seek, I find dissecting my astral projections along with physical confrontations from the veil help balance my thinking. If it weren't for my soul and higher self, plus guides I would be seeking permanent residency at the local pillow wall factory. I believe the answers lie between the lines and constantly check all the facts given to me from both sides. I listen and believe them as much as I listen and believe anyone here but perhaps between both the answers will become transparent.

This is your thread do you want me to continue posting things that I have come to believe through my experiences.

Of course! Please post about your experiences! I take other people's experiences to be just as valid as my own, perhaps even more as they may have a higher understanding (i.e. Tom Campbell) of a "more ultimate" truth :)

Good thread -- fits well w/ some animal discussions I had w/ Bobd! :)

re: groupthink being a fetter.

The problem with "groupthink" isn't the group or the think. The problem is the unspoken conspiracy all humans implement to ensure not to say or do something because they fear offending someone's feelings, fear being "chastised", fear being "wrong", etc.

The root of the problem is allowing value be assigned to fear and judgement to the point where it augments what we really want to express. It is the same problem that is responsible for humanity being "domesticated" in the sense we all make decisions based on fear. because that is how we've been programmed, and we all do it autonomously and without thought or review.

To think that thinking like-mindedly to someone else is the problem is to not understand the problem properly. To not understand the problem properly means any potential "solution" will be ineffective at best. I do not advocate throwing out babies, but rather being aware of what the actual root problems are. I don't have the problem of speaking my mind in a group, at all (many here may concur), because I understand what the problem is and how it is formed. So the "handicap" can actually be easily overcome where the benefits of thinking in or as a group can be maximized without the potential downside that is caused from our "cult"-urally programmed use of fear for decision making.

It is also not a requirement to "pick a side" or "have a belief" -- another catalyst in the problems that can come along with group thinking - people think that "you have to believe something! You have to have a side!" No you don't. Just consider everything. One is also allowed to change their thinking, if even for the purpose of getting your brain "outside the box" for a superior perspective.

My 2 cents ;)

Well, what if the group has excessive reactions?
Or not enough reaction to wrongness?
What if the group tends to avoid pain?
What if part of the group is masochistic and loves pain?

There is potential for harm.
Altho I agree with part of that.

First of all I like to say my reason for coming to this site was to find people of like mindedness, a place where I didn't need to be afraid to say what was on my mind, I have learned otherwise. I will try to explain the things that I am experiencing even though they are only my own experiences, but perhaps they will shine a bigger light on the things others are feeling and sensing.

I will start first of all with my avatar. My avatar is a drawing I drafted after standing in my back yard, around the end of April. On that night I stood out in my back yard around 1:00 am and stood there watching the night sky, I thought to myself it would be nice if they could give me some sign that they were actually here since days prior to getting out of bed I received a message (WE ARE HERE) repeatedly over and over again. I will go into more detail on this later as to how I can communicate and hear them. Anyway, The night sky was heavy with spring moisture and the clouds lingered lower to the ground on that night. Suddenly I saw the outline of something large drifting only around a 100 feet above me rapidly but slow enough for me to make out the symbol that was on the underside of this large ship. since that night I have seen several other ships but all at high altitude much higher then any planes I have ever seen.

I only have this symbol so to me this is one of the pieces of the puzzle I need to solve. Has anyone ever seen this symbol before.

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Posted by Tesla_WTC_Solution

Well, what if the group has excessive reactions?
Or not enough reaction to wrongness?
What if the group tends to avoid pain?
What if part of the group is masochistic and loves pain?

There is potential for harm.
Altho I agree with part of that.

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I do agree that diversification within any group is important, but even it can become easily subdued in an environment ripe with fear and judgement; I would rather challenge each individual to allow themselves the power of consideration without belief. Even if a group has a lot of very like mindedness, as long as the majority have the ability to perceive from other views temporarily and report back the view, the diversification for full spectrum intelligent debate can be met.

Some people don't appreciate diversification enough -- I certainly can concur with that, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't still be able to also see and appreciate the benefits of what like minded groups has to offer. It's all about the mechanisms of action, not necessarily the mechanism itself, to use a metaphor.

My 2 cents.

I only remember one symbol and it reminded me of a "C" that is turned 45 degrees. I would see 6 symbol sets and it seemed a program would run that set the emotions, gave necessary intel, and somehow gave me a full understanding of the subject at hand. Very interesting experiences and useful when playing war in the Matrix.