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Hi, Folks: an Avalon guest has emailed me for help. She has a phonetic phrase in an unknown ancient language which she wants to translate. (In other words, this is what it sounds like.)
I told her I was no linguist myself (far from it!), but that maybe members here might be able to dig out some possible meanings. My own first guess might be Latin, which I did study long ago, but that might well be quite wrong and it could be anything at all from any era.
Melach libani nonay usni
I'm not a linguist by any stretch, but I'd guess we need some phonetic symbols or something if we're going by how it sounds.Quote:
Posted by Bill Ryan
Just going with the first word...
Melach... Is is the "Me" portion MEE? MEH? MEY?
What kind "a" is in "lach"? A as in apple? A as in ape? A as in America? or another form of a?
What kind of "ch"? hard as in anchor? soft as in church?
And which syllable gets the accent?
Not trying to make things difficult or anything. The English language is just ridiculously inconsistent. :flower:
I went to this excellent online Latin dictionary. (The phrase doesn't sound like Greek, which I also studied.) The result is like a kind of crossword puzzle. :)Quote:
Posted by Bill Ryan
https://online-latin-dictionary.com/...dictionary.php
Or maybe the words aren't separated like that.... the last two could be noneus ni. (ni means "not".)
- Melach is problematic. It might be mălăchē, meaning "a kind of mallows" (which might be a confection, like marshmallows?? But that seems unlikely! :) )
- libani (phonetically) could be the genitive of Mount Lebanon, in Syria.
- nonay (phonetically) could be a declension (maybe genitive) of "nonius", meaning "ninth". Or, nonnĕ is an interrogative, expecting the answer "yes".
But >>- usni doesn't seem to have any obvious matches. (neither does osni or usini)
Of course, it might not be Latin at all. It could be almost anything, from anywhere, including an unknown language.
One of the issues with phonetics is that there's limited knowledge of what a spoken ancient language might have sounded like to the ear. Much of that, we may never know. But there are some clues regarding Latin, coming from the meter of poetry (i.e. the precise rhythm of how lines of poetry would scan, which the Romans were very keen on).
I was able to find only first word in biblestudytools:
Melach -> https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexi...jv/melach.html
Where is this phrase from?
Regards
If you run this phrase, "Melach libani nonay usni " through Google translate it detects Croatian.
And suggests a change in spelling for the first and third words "Melač libani nonaj usni"
Translated into English, you get, "Lebanon grinder nonaj lips".
And another suggestion from Google Translate: 'Kolač libanon onaj usni"
Which translates to, "Lebanon cake that lips"
Perhaps it would make better sense to the Avalon guest in the context it was heard?
It doesn't help a lot because I found three different ancient languages but there is a vague connection in the definitions. I couldn't find something for "nonay".
Melach: Hebrew - melach, meh'-lakh; from ; properly, powder, i.e. (specifically) salt (as easily pulverized and dissolved):—salt(-pit). Also, Melach is a river of Tyrol, Austria.
Libani: Greek - Λιβάνι: incense.
nonay: ?
Usni: Sanskrit - Uṣṇi (उष्णि):—[from uṣ] mfn. burning
At first glance, and if I bet intuitively on the first try, I would say that it is an extremely simple semantics only that the letters can be easily reversed. But that could mean billions of searches and I do not want to "consume" the information in searches.
I could say directly:
The "testament / declaration" of a "tree / being" renews the "space after" with the simple semantics and phonetics of a quote, perhaps known.
It could also be
"Faith roots the boundless universe"
Usually random ideas, without any specifics, bring results or at least substance.
As a substance in words, and because my native language gives birth to this kind of intuition, I see (with absolutely no connection in particular) the following expressions:
The fruit of the gods, Energy at the edge, distance (interval) in steps, Roman calendar (or a numerator / number), new morphology, null-a continuity (or series in stationary), regeneration or meta-path.
But it's just a game, although I'd bet on a few more options if I heard how it sounds. But I could add to my intuition a little research, if I knew where to start, or not.
I would like to help, but I think the research is safer.:flower:
Where was your friend located ? Country ? What race ? when was she born roughly ? Any religious surroundings near by ? Personality ie. emotional or mechanical ?
Just trying to gather some background as to where the phrase might have originated from ? I looked in 'The Urantia Book' for starters, next the 'Internet Archive' then the Gutenburg Bible. Perhaps the 'Library of Congress'..... nothing. The Vatican library ? Which ultimately returned me here to Avalon ?
She thinks it might be Persian (what was called Persia is now Iran) — quite a while back. But that's not at all certain.Quote:
Posted by Plotus
This is fascinating, Farsi is considered an ancient language, 2500 years old according to this article: 12 Oldest Languages In The World Still Widely Used!
I plugged the phonetic phrase into Google translate, when I looked for Farsi, it wasn't available, so I selected Persian and was given an option to translate a phrase written in a Persian type.
ملکه لبنی نونی وسنی
(I'm completely unfamiliar with that alphabet to know if would make any sense, or connection?)
I had already wondered if nonay may be referencing a name? The translation of the phrase in Google ended up being, "Noni and Sunni dairy queen".
I'm thinking the phrase was a colloquialism? Understanding the culture it was used in would help clarify the meaning.
In the english alphabet version, the word "libani" seems to reference Lebanon, consistently. Lebanon was known for it's cedars, so the relationship of it's name to incense would make sense.
Are there any Farsi speakers here?
Sounds kinda like Aramaic, to me.
Cedar of Lebanon is the strong, fragrant wood used to build David's house, Solomon's house and much of the First Temple. It was also used along with hyssop in the cleansing of a leper's house. It speaks of protection, strength, permanence, wholeness and restoration.Quote:
Lebanon was known for it's cedars, so the relationship of it's name to incense would make sense.
Ps 92:12 "The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree: he shall grow like a cedar in Lebanon."
Hello All,
With all your respect Bill, I am not sure if this has any Latin origin but who knows really, anything is possible.
Reading that sentence per se sounds very Arabic/Middle Eastern to me; It wouldn't surprise me either if the origins of that word are from even further lands, known or not.
I base that assumption on the fact that the first word that jumped at me "literally" is Melach, which when letters are inversed sounds very much like "Malik, Malek, Malick, or Melekh" which means "King" and "Malika" for the female counterpart; "Malika" being a common name in North African territories (e.g. Morocco); it does bring a feeling/sense of grace to the one who carries that name if it makes sense.
You could also think of the name "Malachi" translated as the Messenger
No sense of confusion with "Libani" here, Lebanon comes to mind without hesitation.
"Usni" well, this one reminds me of the name "Husni" which is an indirect Quranic name for boys in general which means" Good, Handsome, Kind, Joyful, Happy"
"Nonay" is usually name that can be found in the Philippines, apart from that I will have to searh of bit more.
Could we have something like " A kind/humble/good king/queen/Messenger who came from the Philippines to/from Lebanon", " A kind/humble/good king/queen/Messenger who came from the Lebanon to the Philippines...
There are multiple options here and it would be good to know where your friend got this sentence from Bill? As well as the origin of the person who sent it to her :-)
That is my quick two cents for now.
Cheerios
SM
Psychic impression: "A messenger (or angel) from Lebanon or Sinai" Probably Aramaic, or ancient Hebrew.
I tried Forgotten Languages - http://forgottenlanguages-full.forgottenlanguages.org/ -
No results matching the query: Melach libani nonay usni. - https://forgottenlanguages-full.forg...ni+nonay+usni+
Messages delivered by Spirits of either kind belong mostly (and can be thoroughly understood) by the recipient himself but rarely by “other people”.
Linguistic roots were commonly shared and transplanted through all human cultures but in millions of variations - and meanings. The beauty of phrases and idioms is in delivering profound meaning in “simple terms” ( such as : “all that glitters is not gold” ).
But one single idiom or phrase can deliver multiple meanings when vocalised and addressed to individual recipient.
Such as in “all that glitters is not gold” may refer to the person themselves or objects or people they’re dealing with.
So, one can but offer some lame suggestions here:
Melach could refer to salt ( powder) in Hebrew
https://www.messie2vie.fr/bible/stro...16-melach.html
but Old Hebrew quite like ancient Sanskrit are very smart and playful languages.
A change in one letter can change the meaning of sentence completely.
Malkhut in Hebrew means Kingdom and Melekh means Kings.
Libani (as in Lebanon) seems to be derived from much older Phoenician root for “white”. The same root can be found in Latin words for “whiteness” such as “album” or albino.
Usni(sa) has plenty of meanings in Sanskrit indeed:
14 definitions of Usnisa in Sanskrit
but in essence and common understanding refers to the “top”, tip or uppermost level of person or a structure.
Used as adjective (usni) by pre-modern-Sanskrit speaker it can refer to “upper” or as we would say “superior”.
NN : nonay: would likely signify “isn’t or aren’t”,
in the context of the phrase and with leisure
of linguistic sensitivity shared among tribes and cultures.
So if I were to understand and translate the message to today’s wording
“White salt ( King) isn’t (always) the best”
it does make some sense to me, regardless.
What did it precisely mean to people at times of its origin is difficult to guess though as cultural sarcasms aren’t easy to decipher.
🙏🥳
I studied a bit of Judaism & Hebrew in the past & 'Malach' looked familiar. It means Angel or messanger...From Wikidepidia:
"Angels in Judaism
Etymology
Hebrew mal’akh (מַלְאָךְ) is the standard word for "messenger", both human and divine, in the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible), though it is rarely used for human messengers in Modern Hebrew[2] as the latter is usually denoted by the term shaliyah (שליח)."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angels_in_Judaism
The other words I do not recognize, sorry - however, my Hebrew is very, very rusty, lol. They may be words I just don't know.
I will give it a try... via a total different approach.
We don't know indeed - as Edina mentioned above - what the context is of the phrase.
So, I did my best to be creative... and saw it as an anagram.
Can you make something sensible out of it? And if so, how to interpret it?
A possible anagram is " I ANNUL MACHINABLE YONIS".
And what can that mean? The "I", who says this, is important. Is it possible that the person who heard this, did hear it in a dream or something like that? In that case, this "I" would or could have quite some power.
To annul, that is clear. Machinable, well, that is an interesting one! We are all human. We do live in a time of "transhumanism", which most of us consider a threat. To be machinable means that it can be turned into an automaton, a machine.
And yonis, a "yoni" is Sanskrit for the vulva, but it also is a representation of Shakti. From Wikipedia:
"Shakti = Energy, ability, strength, effort, power, capability and it is the primordial cosmic energy and represents the dynamic forces that are thought to move through the entire universe.
Shakti is the personification of the Energy that is creative, sustaining, as well as destructive, sometimes referred to as auspicious source energy.
As the Shakti or Creatrix, She is known as "Adi Shakti" or "Adi Para Shakti" (i.e., Primordial Inconceivable Energy). On every plane of creation, Energy manifests itself in all forms of matter, thermal energy, potential energy, gravitational energy etc.
These are all thought to be infinite forms of the Paraa Shakti. But Her true form is unknown, and beyond human understanding. She is Anaadi (with no beginning, no ending) and Nitya (forever).
In Shaktism, Adi Parashakti is worshipped as the Supreme Being. Shakti embodies the active dynamic energy of Shiva (as Devi Shivaa / Shive) and is synonymously identified with Tripura Sundari or Parvati."
A "machinable shakti" would - or could - mean the highest "form" of mechanization, almost god-like. So, some-Thing that could annul thàt would be quite beneficial.
Translation: "I eliminate completely artificial gods".
In case one wonders how I got to this, when reading the OP, I had an intuitive hunch, and "sort of" heard "anagram".
When you would be a Power that can do the above and you want to give a message to someone human, in an AI-like world, then it would make sense NOT to use any language, ancient or other, because what are machines good at? Indeed, languages! Think of Google translate and the like.
So, an angaram would be, if words need to be used, one of the few possible ways to communicate. I did not just put the sentence in an "anagram machine" by the way. And second, the meaning of "yonis" here would be close to be impossible to come up with in this context. The keyword in all of this is CREATIVITY and if there is some-thing machines are not good at, it's just thàt!
Bill, maybe this person has a good connection to a benevolent - Natural - force of some kind, and it would not be a coincidence either that she came to PA for clarification. It can be someone who is VERY close to Nature, communicating with Nature in unique ways. Maybe there is more to this short message than one would think at first sight.
Definitely worth pursuing and following up I think!
Maybe this is VERY far from what it REALLY means, but it does make kind of sense, doesn't it?
Close to: "Melech" (מלך) is a Hebrew word that means king, and may refer to: Melech (name), a given name of Hebrew origin. the title of "king" in ancient Semitic culture, see Malik. the deity Moloch.
- it may not be related at all but if it is it may help ;)
For some unkown reason this phrase resonanates with me , I dont know what it means but it does resonate with me ( by the way I am not a great fan of the expression resonates)
I have spent some considerable time in Israel and many surrounding countries 35 years ago , no religous upbringing or affiliations, some bizarre experiences of being able to access information from nowhere or acashic knowledge in moments of concern / danger, have experienced sleep paralysis on a regular basis periodically over many years , and I am convinced I have experienced many different lives but no definite recollections although I was drawn to relocate 20 years ago to south west France.
Now to address the enquiry, did this person hear this expression, experience it or read or envisionage it , I believe this may be the key to unlocking the meaning , but as to the meaning I am sorry I do not know , but perhaps with my admissions, the guest may not feel so alone if this an experience
I was curious about this so asked a friend who speaks Hebrew and this is what she has come up with for the first 2 words:
'First word is Hebrew meaning king'. Second word could be Le’ benee meaning time my son
To my son'
She hasn't responded (yet) about the remainder of the sentence but if she comes up with a meaning, I'll post it.
Good day all and thank you for your great input on this topic. I am the former “guest” now member who contacted Bill hoping for answers to the puzzle of this phrase. Everyone has been so helpful and I thank you all. I feel it is important to put this phrase in context if a definitive answer is to be found. I told Bill I was hesitant to share how I came to hear this phrase but he has assured me the members of this forum are open minded and accepting so here is my story.
I heard this phrase and in fact spoke this phrase during a past life regression. I was a five-year-old boy who had been hiding in a cave used for storage. When I came out of hiding, I saw that my city had been destroyed and burned. I was the sole survivor. Everyone had been either taken away or killed. I learned that I had starved to death. I also had the impression that this was the ancient city of Ur and that it was during a significant drought. My impression was that the city had been conquered and all viable persons taken away as slaves. As I lay dying, I saw a huge man in full armor approach. I was scared and thought he was a soldier returning to hurt me. I heard a voice say “not a soldier. An angel.“ It was at that time I uttered the phrase. I am keenly interested in all of your comments and hope that by putting the phrase in context an answer may be found. I am most grateful and humble.
Welcome Tupelo, to Avalon, so glad to have you join us, I have been following this thread and looking forward to others thoughts, I find it very interesting.
Now I'm no linguist and have problems speaking English ; but after reading this and thinking about it all night. I woke up this morning and thought it may mean something like this ' My name is Melach and I am here to take you to your Mother. 'Quote:
Posted by Bill Ryan
My thoughts on this are :- Melach being a name, Libani meaning liberty, Nonay is similar to the Italian slang name for Grand-mother/female carer and Usni being a verb or something similar - to take, to carry.
If this was the city of Ur, or in the land of Ur, it's possible that you spoke in Summerian, or perhaps Akkaddian.Quote:
Posted by Tupelo
Do you remember how you felt when you spoke the phrase?
As a curious aside, here's a document with some summerian translations.
https://www.bulgari-istoria-2010.com...Dictionary.pdf
And welcome to Avalon Tupelo. :sun:
Welcome here at Project Avalon Tupelo!:flower:
You'll meet a lot of like-minded people here and quite a few of us have some experience with past lives and regression.
I thought I could click the underlined word "sounds" like, and listen to it, how increddibly silly of me:(Quote:
Posted by Bill Ryan
Bill, any hint of why this is of importance to understand, was she given it in a divine dream, or why the importance?
Anyway, I agree with the post of it being Croatian in origin, found this via Google (don't be evil) LOL , well here it is anyway.
"This is a digital copy of a book that was prcscrvod for gcncrations on library shclvcs bcforc it was carcfully scannod by Google as part of a projcct"
Digital scaning couldn't se c from e, obviously for unknown reason?
to make the worlďs books discoverablc onlinc.
Full text of "Květy"
https://archive.org/stream/kvty03unk...ngoog_djvu.txt
** Update! I sent the text to a friend from former Jugoslavia and she responded it looks like Polish. **
Quote:
Posted by Rawhide68I thought I could click the underlined word "sounds" like, and listen to it, how increddibly silly of me:(Quote:
Posted by Bill Ryan
Bill, any hint of why this is of importance to understand, was she given it in a divine dream, or why the importance?
Anyway, I agree with the post of it being Croatian in origin, found this via Google (don't be evil) LOL , well here it is anyway.
"This is a digital copy of a book that was prcscrvod for gcncrations on library shclvcs bcforc it was carcfully scannod by Google as part of a projcct"
Digital scaning couldn't se c from e, obviously for unknown reason?
to make the worlďs books discoverablc onlinc.
Full text of "Květy"
https://archive.org/stream/kvty03unk...ngoog_djvu.txt
** Update! I sent the text to a friend from former Jugoslavia and she responded it looks like Polish. **
Hi 🙏 I think I don’t understand the relevance of the link you’ve posted towards the original message since the magazine “Květy” ( meaning flowers) was old Czech magazine.
So is the archive record although containing some digital gibberish.
The original message posted by Bill here bears no similarity to any European languages known to me ( most certainly not Czech language).
Perhaps not what you were looking for ?
🌟
Hi there. Given this context, the simplest answer is probably the correct one. If as a small child you heard “not a soldier. An angel.“, then you probably answered “An angel you are, not a soldier.“ It has already been pointed out that Melach is cognate with words for angel (e.g. Hebrew); nonay would then mean not: many Indo-European languages associate the N sound with the Negative, No, Not, Non, Ne, Ni….Quote:
Posted by Tupelo
Read up the thread: new member Tupelo's explanation is in her post #22 above.Quote:
Posted by Rawhide68
:thumbsup:
Quote:
Posted by araucariaHi there. Given this context, the simplest answer is probably the correct one. If as a small child you heard “not a soldier. An angel.“, then you probably answered “An angel you are, not a soldier.“ It has already been pointed out that Melach is cognate with words for angel (e.g. Hebrew); nonay would then mean not: many Indo-European languages associate the N sound with the Negative, No, Not, Non, Ne, Ni….Quote:
Posted by Tupelo
Sounds like plausible explanation to me 🙏🍵
A thought. Brian Muraresku, interviewed here by Joe Rogan with Graham Hancock, is a Sanskrit scholar. Go to 7:50 in this video, and be impressed. :)
https://youtube.com/watch?v=gzAQ7SklDxo
If this is the language of the phrase (which has to be possible), Brian will know. He's a young, bright, enthusiastic guy, and I bet he'd respond to a query like this. (The best thing might be to record the phrase as you remember it sounding, and send him a brief audio file.)
His email is brian.muraresku@gmail.com, and his resume is here.
https://grahamhancock.com/wp-content...1-portrait.jpg
This does sound like it could well be Czech - I'm a bit rusty but it could well be something like "malýk líbání no aj usnjí" which sounds similar to the phonetics of "Melach libani nonay usni" - basically it says "my little loved one now go to sleep".
I think, you can well ask your own member shaberon about Sanskrit roots,
myself I’ve studied Sanskrit with traditional Indian teachers since I was 19, and on and on, well that’s long ago, it’s on my resume and part of what I was doing in back days , the journey never ends.
While the dream was located somewhere in ancient Assyria closed to the city of Ur,
it’s likely that the language spoken then does not exist in pure form today
and most languages in the Middle East influenced each other for thousands of years,
shared vocabulary and word roots are shared among distinct language groups
and much closer ethnic dialects.
The message is not “in Sanskrit”, if I did not say that : Sanskrit was composed as so called “pure language” as opposed to “naga(r)-krit” the city(folk) language with regulated grammar- so it speaks in verses and metres that can be recognised.
Word roots can be traced all over the globe though as far as people travelled.
Even a century later they’re indistinguishable part of the language and considered unique heritage of the tribe/people using them.
One of countless examples can be found here in Himachal Pradesh with commonly spoken “Himalayan” languages such as Gaddi or Pahari.
( Gaddis are the shepherds of Himalayas). Many of the older generation did not get through more than few years of school, speaking of 60 or 70 years ago.
Their parents and grandparents generations however adopted many English words to their tribal language while India was occupied by the British Empire,
British troops were stationed here and people had to cope with these overlords on daily basis.
Today’s Gaddi is not an official language, children learn Hindi, Sanskrit and English at school and pure Hindi is the closest spoken language to Sanskrit
while Gaddi sounds more like mixture of both Hindi/Sanskrit and English which is funny to observe.
The same thing happened to Hebrew when spoken by Jewish settlers for couple centuries in Europe while most classic and official communication was based in German and evolved to Yiddish that in turn shared its vocabulary with any language officially spoken ( other than the two previously mentioned).
Such as most of our grandparent generations in Central Europe ( Czechs for example) spoke German ( but not English) because we have shared same territory and education system for centuries before winning their independence from the Empire.
But they would quite commonly pass Yiddish terms around as well using them mostly as “slang words”.
As a child you had to ask what does that “curious word” mean or where did it come from. But that’s on the anecdotal edge ( for me at least).
My parents never used foul language with me as I also strongly rejected it even as a kid. Mum was great rhetorician (and talked a lot) so I’d never struggle linguistically at schools or with talking.
I think it’s why I turned my life focus beyond languages, discovering mind and enjoying silence and sciences.
Talking too much does not help 😀
🙏
Quote:
Posted by Radekp81
That’s a pretty nonsense trying to turn ancient Middle Eastern language and twist it to fit your Slovan roots. The effect creates pretty bad linguistic bastard.
I think I’m getting bit disappointed with the idea that someone could step in and start bastardising languages “as they wish” and yes, the Czechs , the Czechs are so fond of that.
Czech slang can be as colorful and variable as old English slang.
Ok, not my area of expertise and I avoid people speaking bastard-ese in all cultures so getting out of here.
🙏
I find your response unnecessarily offensive and unhelpful - I'm simply adding a reply with what I hear in reading the phrase - maybe it helps, maybe it doesn't. Can we say for certain we are looking for an ancient middle eastern language?Quote:
Posted by AgapeQuote:
Posted by Radekp81
That’s a pretty nonsense trying to turn ancient Middle Eastern language and twist it to fit your Slovan roots. The effect creates pretty bad linguistic bastard.
I think I’m getting bit disappointed with the idea that someone could step in and start bastardising languages “as they wish” and yes, the Czechs , the Czechs are so fond of that.
Czech slang can be as colorful and variable as old English slang.
Ok, not my area of expertise and I avoid people speaking bastard-ese in all cultures so getting out of here.
🙏
This makes sense to me.Quote:
Posted by Radekp81
However, it's really about if it's meaningful to Tupelo, since it was Tupelo's experience.
The phrase, as translated here, expresses a very kind, sweet sentiment. And fits the circumstances as described by Tupelo. Thanks Radekp81, for sharing.
I consulted a friend who speaks Farsi, and he sent me this reply:
Hi Bill,
nonay refers to bread in Persian (if pronounced 'noonay').
melach means salt in Hebrew.
Not sure about the overall meaning as I don't recognize libani and usni.
Hi Tupelo, welcome to the forum.Quote:
Posted by Tupelo
A bit off topic, but can I get you to describe this huge, armoured "angel" in more detail? Was he larger than a human would normally be able to grow to? Was the armour like medieval armour or was it different?
Also I am wondering if we can narrow down the phonetics a little more? For example usni could be pronounced "uh-snee" or "ooz-knee" or "oos-nih", etc.
DeDukshyn,
Thank you for your response. I am happy to answer your questions. The man in armor seemed very large to me, larger than the people of my town. His armor was unblemished from battle, shiny and very elegant. His helmet was rounded and had no protrusions. He wore a breast plate, arm and shin guards. All were silver in color.
As for phonetics, the first example you wrote is the closest.
I hope I have answered your questions and that you find this information useful.