Aliens or Demons?

Maybe just the times we're living in, but there's much talk of both imminent disclosure and apocalyptic doom online. Some think that we are on the verge of first contact, or at least first public contact, others that this will be a ruse, a way of introducing demonic interdimensional forces under the guise of being extra terrestrials. Or leaving aside the matter of the demonic, maybe an encounter could be a project 'Blue Beam' operation which will be used to further the aims of the controllers? Reagan mentioned the world coming together to fight an alien threat 5 times in speeches. Predictive programming?

The Bill Cooper thread is just the latest place I've seen this dilemma mentioned. If you view the world from a Christian perspective, is the demonic explanation more likely than the ET one? Chuck Missler thought so:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ACfP5nOH9uo

It's a big subject and maybe impossible to answer so I wanted to narrow it down. Avalon is the place where 'science and spirituality meet' so are there methods, either scientific or spiritual, which we could use to see through any deception and understand whether we're being contacted by genuine travellers from afar, or if there's something darker at work?

:sherlock:

Thank you Journeyman, for your insightful questioning. I too have had the same question for quite sometime. I’m eager to hear from you amazing people on this significant , and possibly perception altering issue.

How many assumed assumptions about "The Aliens" are:

• Projected fears?
• Self-imposed limitations?
• Just labels for our limited comprehension?
• Judgments based upon interpretations made by others having a limited agenda?
• Not based upon own experience rather what other dictated you how to see them?
• Scared to be tricked or being fooled or being lied too meanwhile those who project those fears are victim of excactly that but are not aware of the hypocrisy.
• People who love to be told "how to think & act" not taking own responsibility.

If we all are Alien Souls having a limited human experience with temporary amnesia ... is it possible there hundreds of different type of aliens (good & bad, just like with humans) that are related to SOME humans on this planet on a soul level?

You see in my view, most who are FIXED in a narrow path of thinking & judging become just a tool to serve a specific limited agenda claiming to "save souls" but actually do the opposite. They INJECT fear based limitations and demand you follow their "conclusions".

If you fear cats or dogs because you have had a traumatic experience as a child your FEARS can be detected by them in the present and they will act differently because you become unpredictable & irrational ... even dangerous to them. Now imagine that ANY alien would sense something similar but 100 times stronger. In short: You reap what you sow.

And "demons" which is just a label we use ... may not be interested in you if you are 100% fearless ... so it begs the question ... how much fear is spread to feed the perception of being "victim of demonic creatures"? ... It is almost like the same question as: "what was first the chicken or the egg"?

And I am all for being highly skeptical of the intentions of ANY alien contacting you, me, all of us ... that is not my issue ... the main issue is: PRESUMPTIONS blocking you from having a genuine positive experience falsely assuming "it can never happen" based upon injected fears done by someone else.

Similar to what Christians said about the Native Americans calling them "dangerous savages" in the 1500, 1600 & 1700 Century. Very similar rhetoric with huge long-term consequences.

cheers,
John Kuhles 🦜🦋🌳
February 8th, 2021

Thank you for your thoughtful post John. I agree with much of it. I myself am questioning the concept of a higher spiritual warfare in which we may be caught up as pawns. Or just caught up. I’m wondering if there are Extradimensional or ‘spiritual forces’ engaged in a kind of cosmic battle, and if humans in power become corrupted to the point of ‘sleeping with the devil’ and thereby become vessels of that cosmic battle to some degree here on earth. I know good and bad are polarizing concepts. The more I look at things, the more I wonder.
Thank you for your input
Pamela

Hi Journeyman,
This question was so important to me personally starting in 2009. I love Missler and other Pastors & Teachers, but yet my encounters were not negative like they were saying and that was important because I didnt know at the time if they were good or bad. Even a local Pastor I went to told me to stay away from them because they are demons. Another great great man Gary Stearman a popular Christian on TV had an amazing encounter with a UFO that saved his life. I wrote about it in a way past thread. I believe there are precautions that a person can take. I did do them and was fortunate to observe things you would say are not normal...lol Still after all these years now I know there are both good & bad. Hope this helps you.

Do also see this very interesting thread:

• The COLLINS ELITE: Nick Redfern, Ray Boeche, and interdimensional, demonic 'aliens' - that the deep insiders may know all about

Thank you for the reference, Bill. My gracious there’s a lot on that thread. I will study it carefully. Just a quick note about my earlier post... I was remiss in not suggesting that just as dark ‘spiritual’ forces may use humans who are willing for their own agenda, I posit Light forces can and do use willing humans to wield Light power on this cosmic stage.
I welcome and appreciate input from all perspectives. In the meantime, I got to hit that Collins Elite thread😉!
Pamela

angels, spirits, ets, demonic entities, forces etc.......All just words and vocabulary of choice or more importantly "belief" - suspend the belief and use a different word and very often the perception and emotions you have towards the "projection" you have created will change :)

Is the glass half full or half empty or simply a nasty drinking vessel? ;)

Since the dark agendas have ramped up I no longer feel the need to conversationally discuss whether its aliens or demons but to say yes to this question. It it is both and it is accelerating. The sense of urgency has been felt by many on this forum I would hazard to say also.

Ultimately this could be thought of as an energetic equation. With more darkness, more light needs to be brought in. The forces acting against us are great, there should be no underestimation. And most are on the sidelines. This is not to instill fear but to reiterate this urgency and to remind there IS a way out.

The agendas are playing out - the disclosure is planned to converge with the seemingly apocalyptic events. People will hear of beautiful blue eyed ET's willing to help and "save us from ourselves" and from "the bad guys" (another ET race here, aligned against us.) Both these races are here to dupe us all. We're the precious few in the know. Fortunately love is more powerful than darkness. As long as theres enough human intention acting (prayer IS action btw) we can win.

Considering that the common understanding across the AltCom coalesces around the idea that ancient aliens were our Progenitors, and that, at least one cadre of them, the Eloheem Anunnaki, were what we later called Angels and Demons, Demons being the Fallen, those who came down from Mars to get earth women and live la vida loca, then how is the idea of aliens versus angels/demons any different? It is rarely talked about but it is accepted also, generally, that many potential ET groups that visit earth can manipulate not only time and space but also dimensional qualities, they can access the dream state and the subconscious, so they engage us within at least 4 dimensions, the 4th in this example being the Astral.

What we consider to be magic, or spiritual science, is material science to entities able to utilize the astral as a display of technological supremacy.

Discarnate entities exist, who have never held a physical body, who fall outside of the auspices of Angels and Demons - and may be called the Foreign Installation or Flyers, inorganic entities, or even Wetiko - yet they still engage with humanity and are often considered to be lost spirits. Folks above stated that some of these entities may be masquerading as aliens, demons and angels and who is to say that this is not so?

I think much of the confusion has to do with the terminology and the inadequacy of our categories to fully define the nature of discarnate entities. We can't even know which is which at this point, which are coming from some kind of material body and projecting into the astral to engage us, and which have never had a body and have been interacting with formed consciousnesses since time immemorial.

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Posted by Mark/Rahkyt

Considering that the common understanding across the AltCom coalesces around the idea that ancient aliens were our Progenitors, and that, at least one cadre of them, the Eloheem Anunnaki, were what we later called Angels and Demons, Demons being the Fallen, those who came down from Mars to get earth women and live la vida loca, then how is the idea of aliens versus angels/demons any different? It is rarely talked about but it is accepted also, generally, that many potential ET groups that visit earth can manipulate not only time and space but also dimensional qualities, they can access the dream state and the subconscious, so they engage us within at least 4 dimensions, the 4th in this example being the Astral.

What we consider to be magic, or spiritual science, is material science to entities able to utilize the astral as a display of technological supremacy.

Discarnate entities exist, who have never held a physical body, who fall outside of the auspices of Angels and Demons - and may be called the Foreign Installation or Flyers, inorganic entities, or even Wetiko - yet they still engage with humanity and are often considered to be lost spirits. Folks above stated that some of these entities may be masquerading as aliens, demons and angels and who is to say that this is not so?

I think much of the confusion has to do with the terminology and the inadequacy of our categories to fully define the nature of discarnate entities. We can't even know which is which at this point, which are coming from some kind of material body and projecting into the astral to engage us, and which have never had a body and have been interacting with formed consciousnesses since time immemorial.

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If people knew fully the technological superiority we were up against. The level of their tech is in proportion to the level of their depravity unfortunately. Forwarned is forarmed.

I wonder if hyper super intelligence without any soul is worse than "demonic entities".

Combine faster and faster developments in:

• 01. Synthetic Life
• 02. Nano-Tech
• 03. Artificial Bio-Chips
• 04. Quantum A.I.
• 05. Advanced Robotics
• 06. Quantum Internet (Instant Communications Anywhere between Intelligent Machines).

I would not be surprised that a combination of all 6 can lead to something that will eventually be totally "alien" to us ... even considered "demonic" because it is beyond our comprehension what it ultimately can or will do to all of us.

People like Elon Musk & Klaus Schwab wants us to submit to their Transhumanistic The Great Dystopian Reset Agenda 2030

cheers,
John Kuhles aka 'ExomatrixTV'
February 8th, 2021

• DARPA - robots and technologies for the future management of advanced US research:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=E2B_FE5zYfU

Mojo, do you happen to know the name of that way past thread? I would love to read about your experiences if you are ok with sharing them. Thank you for your great post.
Pamela

I can't help but wonder...what would it take for the public appearance of a visiting ET to be believable given the current political/technical climate?

If the media said so?

If you saw a video?

If a politician said so?

Could you believe your own eyes and personal experience?

The last is most likely - so it would have to be a world wide personal experience.

Imagine....then would you think it Aliens or Demons or Gods?

Might as well throw the Deva kingdom into the mix as well: faeries, etc.

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Posted by Bill Ryan

Do also see this very interesting thread:

• The COLLINS ELITE: Nick Redfern, Ray Boeche, and interdimensional, demonic 'aliens' - that the deep insiders may know all about

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Thanks for this pointer, the thread was a fascinating read and I'm glad I read it to its conclusion. I'll summarise a couple of posts here which may add to this discussion:

Bob relates Hynek's view that encounters were 'three fold' spiritual interdimensional / physical ET / Unexplained and adds human craft as a fourth. Bolsters the case others have made that viewing this as a simplistic Either/Or as I did in the thread title is a mistake.

Spiral has a point about experience of some that invoking Christ stopped a bad encounter. I've seen this cited as evidence of the demonic nature of UFO/ET's, it seems to have worked for some but there's debate in the thread about whether its a way of focussing will or genuine divine intervention.

In an article linked there, Nick Redfern thinks the military's notion that the ET's are demonic in origin may be due to their own preconceptions, perhaps echoing the point John K makes above?

Quote:

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do I think the UFO phenomenon is unlikely to be extraterrestrial? Yes, I do. Is it deceptive and manipulative? Yes. But, that doesn’t mean the entities in question are the hellish minions of the Devil. All that this story tells us is that quite a few people in the military, government and the intelligence community do firmly believe that the UFO phenomenon is demonic.

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Although I acknowledge 'Aliens or Demons' may be too simplistic a question and that our own cultural biases may be an obstacle in forming an accurate view, the dilemma remains.

There's evidence that TPTB believe in numerology, astrology and occult magick. There's also evidence of UFO's / ET's. Finally, there's that area where these two crossover, Crowley's demon that looks like a 'Grey', Jack Parsons rumoured portal exploits in the Desert. The oddities and occult signifiers around CERN. NASA's obsession with mythology. Etc.

Perhaps this confusion is deliberate, a way of obscuring truth through noise? Perhaps even the question is a very '3d' way of looking at something which isn't subject to such a division?

When anyone is telepathic it may be perceived by Christians as "demonic" hence the problem of fast judgements ... same for aliens ... they too can be telepathic ... just because it is labelled "occult" (as most Christians do not use telepathy themselves) ... does not mean it must be evil ... that is just a mental defense reflex mechanism of those who are fearful of the unknown by default.

Best answer in my view is: "I do not know" and not participate nor helping the mass injections of fear based assumptions & projections.

cheers,
John Kuhles aka 'ExomatrixTV'
February 9th, 2021

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Posted by Journeyman

Perhaps this confusion is deliberate, a way of obscuring truth through noise? Perhaps even the question is a very '3d' way of looking at something which isn't subject to such a division?

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I would lean in this direction, as we are well aware that disinformation is a continuing strategy that acts to divide and conquer naturally. Unlike us, coming from our general 3-dimensional awareness, those who can access the Astral as a matter of technological course are probably well aware of other entities, collectives and civilizations who possess similar or higher technology, so our confusion as exemplified here is not shared by them. Their awareness of each other's natures beg the question, what kinds of agreements exist, between inorganic entities and physical yet technologically superior civilizations, in the dispensation of access to a population that seems to be a loosh-factory for many different groups, namely, us?

Is it more of an agreement to live and let live, you get yours and we'll get ours? Is it a competition for human energy storage and consumption? Do the discarnate entities eschew communication with the physically-bound entities, being beyond them, are they potentially even beyond the ken of those who are at a higher state of awareness than us?

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Posted by ExomatrixTV

When anyone is telepathic it may be perceived by Christians as "demonic" hence the problem of fast judgements ... same for aliens ... they too can be telepathic ...

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Remote viewer Lyn Buchanan said that aliens are only telepathic for short distances, whereas humans have no limits on distance.
He also said there are 4 classifications of aliens according to the military:
1) Friendly & Telepathic
2) Friendly & Non-telepathic
3) Unfriendly & Telepathic
4) Unfriendly & Non-telepathic
(I think that's right)

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Posted by TomKat

Quote:

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Posted by ExomatrixTV

When anyone is telepathic it may be perceived by Christians as "demonic" hence the problem of fast judgements ... same for aliens ... they too can be telepathic ...

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Remote viewer Lyn Buchanan said that aliens are only telepathic for short distances, whereas humans have no limits on distance.
He also said there are 4 classifications of aliens according to the military:
1) Friendly & Telepathic
2) Friendly & Non-telepathic
3) Unfriendly & Telepathic
4) Unfriendly & Non-telepathic
(I think that's right)

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The assumed limitations of Aliens and/or Humans is 100% subjective in my book ... no matter what "authoritative" position someone claim to have. It may work for people who are easy convinced just because some one says so.

cheers,
John

Quote:

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Posted by Journeyman

It's a big subject and maybe impossible to answer so I wanted to narrow it down. Avalon is the place where 'science and spirituality meet' so are there methods, either scientific or spiritual, which we could use to see through any deception and understand whether we're being contacted by genuine travellers from afar, or if there's something darker at work?

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I was interested in the subject of Atlantis by the asteroid "Atlantis" its code 1198 and the readings of Edgar Cayce.
There are also the Surveys by Pascal Cascarino on YouTube, but it is in French and under hypnosis, or the videos Elisabeth de Caligny, a specialist in Ufology.
Oumuamua an asteroid or an Alien ship, is in the news today, ...

:sherlock:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=M_4n9QKEQ_g

Journeyman,
That was a great summation. Thank you for taking the time and effort.

Pamela

yes Journey I can concur with pabranno and glad you are a member...

If we take into account the theory (or it could be fact) that the two powerful ET races (Mantids vs Reptilians?), are capable of shapeshifting and imitating each other to the point of creating a difficult stalemate between them for control and manipulation. Then the question of "Demon or Alien" becomes even more difficult.

Personally, I believe that both Aliens and Demons exist. When you acknowledge the mind and tech prowess that both could have and/or obtain, the truth of any given experience could be in question as to whether it was one or the other falsely representing itself based upon reading the mind of it's victim to manipulate them to any intended outcome.

Let's strip away the misrepresentation of the entity and say it appears and acts true to its identity. Now simply based upon the person's own belief system, education and experiences, an Alien could be interpreted as a Demon and vice versa. One small detail could influence the person's perception. Smell, appearance of entity and/or surroundings - all would influence as persons' recall as to what it was they were in contact with and it's motives.

If I look at my own experiences, a demon could have represented itself as an ET just to mess with my emotions, perception and future actions. An ET could have shown care and compassion to hide an evil agenda or it could have acted like a demon (reading my mind to discover my fears) for a certain motive.

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Posted by Patient

If we take into account the theory (or it could be fact) that the two powerful ET races (Mantids vs Reptilians?), are capable of shapeshifting and imitating each other to the point of creating a difficult stalemate between them for control and manipulation. Then the question of "Demon or Alien" becomes even more difficult.

Personally, I believe that both Aliens and Demons exist. When you acknowledge the mind and tech prowess that both could have and/or obtain, the truth of any given experience could be in question as to whether it was one or the other falsely representing itself based upon reading the mind of it's victim to manipulate them to any intended outcome.

Let's strip away the misrepresentation of the entity and say it appears and acts true to its identity. Now simply based upon the person's own belief system, education and experiences, an Alien could be interpreted as a Demon and vice versa. One small detail could influence the person's perception. Smell, appearance of entity and/or surroundings - all would influence as persons' recall as to what it was they were in contact with and it's motives.

If I look at my own experiences, a demon could have represented itself as an ET just to mess with my emotions, perception and future actions. An ET could have shown care and compassion to hide an evil agenda or it could have acted like a demon (reading my mind to discover my fears) for a certain motive.

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I've wondered if aliens are ET demons? Because I've had experience with Earth demons, and they aren't technologically oriented at all, just hyper-intelligent, mischievous and amoral characters who like to mess with humans. But maybe other planets have demons that developed technology?

I was wondering if anyone had viewed in slow motion the SuperBowl performance of Beyonce 2013.
I didn't believe it till I tried it.
I stopped/started in half/seconds through the entire performance as posted on YouTube.
Attention to mins 5:15, 7:54, 10:13, 10:48-51.
I don't know what/who I'm looking at.
Would appreciate opinions.
It has always startled me.

Thanks, guys.
Pamela

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Posted by pabranno

I was wondering if anyone had viewed in slow motion the SuperBowl performance of Beyonce 2013.
I didn't believe it till I tried it.
I stopped/started in half/seconds through the entire performance as posted on YouTube.
Attention to mins 5:15, 7:54, 10:13, 10:48-51.
I don't know what/who I'm looking at.
Would appreciate opinions.
It has always startled me.

Thanks, guys.
Pamela

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Hi Pamela,

I don't pretend to be an expert but I'll give it a go :)Without having a link I don't think your time references will necessarily match up with the file I found:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=suIg9kTGBVI

I'm also not wanting to expose myself to watching any more of it tonight as I think it's corrosive and maybe draining. Having said that, I've seen some of the likely clips before and given the matter some thought. So on a more general note...

The alarming moments where it looks like the mask is slipping and we're seeing a glimpse of something else behind, I'd only be speculating, so let's leave that to one side. Sometimes I worry that sort of thing is allowed/put in there as a way of discrediting some of the other stuff that's definitely going on. You are in any case looking at someone who trades in deception. Not just the odd little fib, this is a person whose entire life is founded on a deception from which they derive spiritual power. It's a form of hiding in plain sight popular amongst the top ranks of the entertainment world, politics and the aristocracy. There's some physical clues you can look for and once seen they can provide an insight, but again, let's leave that to one side.

Beyonce at the 'Superb Owl' is fulfilling the role of a priestess of an ancient deity conducting a mass ritual, disguised, in plain view, as a pop star performing a music set. The set design, costumes, dance movements, rhythm and choice of music, all can be analysed and related to ancient ceremonies and festivities. There are some very perceptive Youtube commentators that do this, although several of them have been shut down recently.

The recent 'Black is King' movie got massive promotion and again I think this has a double meaning, as so much of the occult referencing does. I think it refers to Kali 'She who is Black'. At other times I think Beyonce and the other 'elite' performers are celebrating Cybele, or Inanna, or Ashtar or another and really they're all different avatars of the same thing.

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qim...ac433fe14fc5-c

See also:

Beyonce as Grand High Priestess of the Illuminati


This has some of the occult references in other performances:

Follow the thread for a lot more like that, credit to VigilantCitizen and others for their work.

I can't say I know if Cathy is right, but over time I've concluded that I should avoid as much of Beyonce's work as possible. A talented individual, but there's a coldness to the energy I pick up from the music and videos.

Thank you Journeyman. I really do appreciate it.
And I agree, it is an ancient energy. Interesting connection with the ancient ceremonies.
Things get powerfully deep when I perceive that connection.
When I first viewed years ago, I believed I was looking into the face of a demon. That's what demons must look like.
But as I have learned in this and the Collins thread, and as Patient intimated, there are so many layers.
If only it were that simple: this one is good, that one is bad.
I've been doing some de-polarization lately:)
Thank you all for the input on this thread.
Pamela

Hope this will help others like Journeyman. My spirituality increased after the initial encounter in 2009. But I still tell others there is a risk and never to consider the same ETs are visiting them.

edit: info to be more to the point...lol