Forum in flux (eclipse cycle/venus transit)

We are between two eclipses... and a 'Venus over sun' transit is going to occur within the completion of the eclipse cycle.

The energies of the sun.. via a Venus filter, like a colored glass... are going to be lensed and focused.... upon this earth.

Venus will be fired, sounded.. like a reed in the mouth of a horn, right at the earth.

Keep your awareness up, people!


It's getting interesting out there.

Don't let this important cycle be sideswiped by negative energies.

As it appears to be a ...situation that is attempting to happen, like it always does.

Interference, using the energies of the unaware, who will be among the sideswiped and the bamboozled.

It is happening in the sign of Gemini. Loki, the trickster, is afoot.

Vigilance and observation, meditate, or at least...think of it a bit, every now and then, during this cycle.

in temporal order, the set up is reversal , going back over the psychic depths of existence (Neptune retrograde)..

Eclipse in the TIME of Gemini, but sign of Sagittarius, for strong emotional intensification of two states/directions, one open, one hidden. We are getting a Sagittarian directive in intensities, but while the earth is in the 'space' of Gemini. (this is not a standard astrological interpretation, it is my own, regarding the issue of a Gemini setting for a Sagittarian eclipse)

Venus (in Gemini - light and dark) squares mars (in Virgo).. for a sideways shifting conflict between Venus and mars (love and passion)..and..

then Venus focusing the energies of the sun, upon the earth. the Venus transit across the sun. ..while still strongly under the influence of the Venus square mars transit...while being driven by the emotional intensification of a Sagittarian eclipse, set in Gemini.

it's all fine, though... it can do what it is supposed to do. And that will work best if one is aware, not sleeping, concerning the given coming wave and it's shape. Get yer sea legs up and workin'.


This is an intense dance, with strong emotions and hidden components.

Vigilance and awareness will be required.

Neptune Retrograde
(Rx until Nov 10-11, 2012) June 4 03:09 degrees Pisces 5:03 pm est 2:02 pm pst

Total Lunar Eclipse
Full Moon June 4 14:14 degrees Sagittarius
Subtle hidden quests for truth 7:12 am est 4:12 am pst


Venus square Mars June 4 Venus Gemini, Mars Virgo 8:28 pm est 5:28 pm pst

Venus Transit across Sun June 5-6 Visible Pacific on evening of June 5 Rare: - Last event was June 8, 2004, Not seen again until 2117 and 2125. Previously in 1769, 1874, and 1882. Emphasis of the Divine Feminine. 9:09 pm est 6:09 pm pst

all you females will be a bit more aware and emotional than normally. go easy on your partner/kids/friends/ anyone in the line of fire .

Great insights there, Carmody.

One also needs to remember, the planets are always neutral,
it is ourselves who have to direct the energies provided.
Get a vision of what we want, collectively....

We can then ride the wave towards the shore or trash about in it.
This is where true mastery and creativity comes in.

Going to be one hell of a month

https://youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=eLj7dlgmEt0

Be mindful and go within

And

As a friend of mine would say

Love Love Love

Nora

I was going to say in ulli's thread, how dreams will tell you everything, if you are willing to listen and give attention to them. Then, here I am, seeing good ol' Carmody speaking in astrological terms but conveying the same message as the dreams I woke from a short while ago that were prompting the initial statement. Nice.

I second Ulli's comments!... And Nora's!

All is in flux...

First we need to Awaken... THEN, Change will Happen.

I Strongly Feel the passage of Venus Will Be the Awakening.

BE the Change we wish to see in the World (Gandhi)


In Unity, Peace, and LOVE

[A thread suggesting these Changes... https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...orld-Movement]

Woke up at 4:44. Bird song louder than ever.
There had been an attempt to disturb me during the night,
around 1 am, but I was protected.
I could feel Jorr's powerful presence, protecting me. Totally amazing. Awesome.
This is going to be quite a ride, the next few months.
His passing was timely. We need someone like him on the other side.
Maria will be consoled in ways she never expected, sending energies her way now.

I went through that yesterday. A sudden clarity on an issue that was totally unnoticed by my mate.

My nieces boyfriend had such a vivid dream that when he woke up, he looked behind and around him. He said he was being told to get the baby and her to the "ship" to be beamed up and although he had done so, he can't remember why, only that he was not on board and he then relaxed in all this, and stated more to himself or another being next to him, "at least Ebony and the baby are safe."
A lot of clairvoyance runs in this family, and my nephew is somehow attached or in touch with very deep contact from within on the good side of protection of the family and preparedness for something 2012ish, yet wonderful if you get through it.

We've all known and out of the mouths/minds of babes? God is moving in on the wrongs of the world, but He also helps those, who help themselves in the name of good in life.

Bumpy ride?
You Betcha!
Hold tight and remain truthful to yourselves and do unto others AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU.

Love your brothers and sisters of this Earth as one Human family of God, under the Divine judgement and protection of God and His Heavenly Son Jesus and Host of associates and Angels.

Quote:

---

Posted by ghostrider

all you females will be a bit more aware and emotional than normally. go easy on your partner/kids/friends/ anyone in the line of fire .

---

Thanks for the heads up, I believe you, I'm seeing it already with my family, especially the females, trying to keep the peace and unity in the house. However with the challenges we are facing as a family, we are still together, stronger, and moving forward, thank you.

Quote:

---

Posted by Carmody

Keep your awareness up, people!

---

Thanks Carmody,

I used this one for a little kick in my b*tt.
Kinda needed that!

http://www.funnytreat.com/pictures/animals/Wake-Up.jpg

There is a prelude to the thing that is beginning now,and that is an alignment, a transit of:

Mercury trine Saturn June 3, 2012 Mercury in Gemini, Saturn in Libra, at 9::09 pmEST and 6:09 pm PST. Those times are when the given alignment peaks.

But, it is being felt now. In the same way you can hear a noise around a corner, before the source of the noise comes around the corner..well, this is similar. The 'peak' moment or time is at that stated time.

Mercury, the mind, also the twins, duality, dark and light, hidden and open, is in good aspect to Saturn, the dark sun, the great limiter, and also father time, if you will.

To give you a good idea, Saturn is the planet that was put in place of Christ, when the Romans decided to hi-jack Christianity and make it a pagan celebration.

They laid one on top of the other. Open and hidden.

So what we call Christ's birthday, is actually the feast of saturnalia, in roman times. Those are the kinds of energies that we are dealing with.

No wonder, that as a child, I always felt that Christmas was the strangest **** I ever saw. It felt...off. the drunken part, I could understand..but the rest? No. It felt like.... something else....

so, this alignment of Saturn and Mercury comes as a peak, tomorrow,and even today, in some areas (as it is the 3rd of June, in some places, already)

Just thought of it: Yello, Flag(album):

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=2CDKmlP4zEo

3rd Of June

This is the third of June, 1988
A highly unimportant day
Some airplane gliding into one of the bigger clouds over Manhattan
In a downtown far away, Mr. Toomy, our face in a crowd
The city was slow and tired
The Wall Street boys wearing their ties around their neck
Like boxer's towels after a fight
Mr. Toomy stopped his pinstripe suit outside a barber shop
Looked at his face, took off his jacket and stepped on it

Who's that, what's that, what do you mean
I'll never know where I lost my dream
Who's that, what's that, gimme your name
Third of June, end of game

No looking to the right
No looking to the left
Lenny is a target and always on track
Lenny is a target and nobody shoots
Lenny is a target lost the route
Ruins of a child's old fantasy
Ruins of a child was [?]
Lenny is a target and nobody shoots
Lenny is a target lost the route

Who's that, what's that, what do you mean
I'll never know when I lost my dream
Who's that, what's that, gimme your name
Third of June, end of game

Mr. Toomy stopped his pinstripe suit outside a barber shop
Looked at his face
Took off his jacket
Put it on the pavement
Stepped on it
And started preaching like a monk from another world
After some minutes, he had a little crowd
Which disappeared when a police car passed by slowly
Like rolling gloom
And Mr. Toomy throws his voice 'til he was the only one in the area
At this early night of June 3rd, 1988

Who's that, what's that, what do you mean
I'll never know when I lost my dream
Who's that, what's that, gimme your name
Third of June, end of game

When energy increases, not just the amount, but the speed of the oscillations, it pushes against our chakras, and any stagnant energy we have stuck there due to outmoded beliefs, get's vibrated and awakened. This causes us to have to face our issues which are coming up for review, and many will choose not to, label these experiences as some form of insanity, and try to block and stop the movement of this energy, which will just cause disease.

Those who have done the work clearing their chakras will feel this energy as a sort of Kundalini awakening, and if they do have any residual blocked energy in their chakras, will most likely be able to work through that with ease, and not attach to it with any particular outcome.

Suffice it to say, the controllers are doing everything they can to supply archetypes to attach to, and to take advantage of and explain this, so that they can vampire the energy and consume it as to them, this is one of the biggest feasts and harvests they have ever seen.

The rest of us, unite in unity consciousness and bring the vision of a new paradigm of unity, as creators in sovereignty, showing that victimhood is dead, and self determination and power from within is what is real. We all need to let go of all of the savior myths and victimhood.

Yes, it is slated to be a wild ride if we focus on all the old structures collapsing, and judge them as negative, when if fact this is a necessary part of transformation, for new growth to occur and fill that void. I choose to see it as glorious and exciting. No more "status quo" as far as planets and the universe is concerned.

Quote:

---

Posted by gripreaper

When energy increases, not just the amount, but the speed of the oscillations, it pushes against our chakras, and any stagnant energy we have stuck there due to outmoded beliefs, get's vibrated and awakened. This causes us to have to face our issues which are coming up for review, and many will choose not to, label these experiences as some form of insanity, and try to block and stop the movement of this energy, which will just cause disease.

Those who have done the work clearing their chakras will feel this energy as a sort of Kundalini awakening, and if they do have any residual blocked energy in their chakras, will most likely be able to work through that with ease, and not attach to it with any particular outcome.

Suffice it to say, the controllers are doing everything they can to supply archetypes to attach to, and to take advantage of and explain this, so that they can vampire the energy and consume it as to them, this is one of the biggest feasts and harvests they have ever seen.

The rest of us, unite in unity consciousness and bring the vision of a new paradigm of unity, as creators in sovereignty, showing that victimhood is dead, and self determination and power from within is what is real. We all need to let go of all of the savior myths and victimhood.

Yes, it is slated to be a wild ride if we focus on all the old structures collapsing, and judge them as negative, when if fact this is a necessary part of transformation, for new growth to occur and fill that void. I choose to see it as glorious and exciting. No more "status quo" as far as planets and the universe is concerned.

---

And the old structures are collapsing, no doubt about it.
From empires and monarchies to fascism and communism,
to republics and democracies, and maybe even anarchy.

But some structures will be needed to replace the old ones...
we will still need infra structure. We will still need government.
So who will be making those decisions after the old boy's club has been dismantled?

Quote:

---

Posted by ulli

And the old structures are collapsing, no doubt about it.
From empires and monarchies to fascism and communism,
to republics and democracies, and maybe even anarchy.

But some structures will be needed to replace the old ones...
we will still need infra structure. We will still need government.
So who will be making those decisions after the old boy's club has been dismantled?

---

Two questions

1. How does someone who can't "relax" and has no meditation experience learn to clear his chakras?
2. Why will we still need government? I see government as the cause of most of our problems for at least the past 2500 years.

Quote:

---

Posted by risveglio

Two questions

1. How does someone who can't "relax" and has no meditation experience learn to clear his chakras?
2. Why will we still need government? I see government as the cause of most of our problems for at least the past 2500 years.

---

1. Healthy glands are associated with relatively clear chakras. I recommend taking Atomidine.
2. Who the hell knows? :)

http://heritagestore.com/categories/...oz-liquid.html

Quote:

---

1. How does someone who can't "relax" and has no meditation experience learn to clear his chakras?

---

spend time in heavily wooded areas. if you breath vigorously while in a balanced environment, you will also start to come into balance.

Quote:

---

Posted by risveglio

Two questions

1. How does someone who can't "relax" and has no meditation experience learn to clear his chakras?
2. Why will we still need government? I see government as the cause of most of our problems for at least the past 2500 years.

---

1. I studied Gurdjieff books. I learnt to observe myself, while doing my daily routine. My thoughts, posture, emotions. My awareness was still on the "world", the way it normally would be, but I included my own being in there somewhere. Normally, when people look at what is going on in a room they forget that they themselves are in there, too. Just like everyone else. A normal mortal.
That's how the work starts...the awakening to reality...it is a discipline. Observing reality.
After a while fantasizing becomes less and less, and meditative states while sitting quietly become easier. All that awareness makes self government easier.

2. Government. Just as the self needs to learn to dress themselves, feed themselves, take care of themselves, so a larger group needs to do the same.
Roads need to be built and maintained, security, health services, education, commerce...all of that needs to be organized or totally selfish gangs take over. Maybe even use extortion, demand protection moneys, like the Mafia, etc.
So the people need to pick leaders who represent them and have their best interest at heart.
If governments have failed the people it is because the people have not been vigilant enough
about checking that those leaders did the job they were elected to do.
Instead the people have trusted and lived in the delusion that all was taken care of,
and gradually corruption set in. By the time the people woke up it was too late to do anything about it.
So the people turned over and went back to sleep some more...even deeper this time.
Now the leaders have even more free reign to do what they want.
It has been a process...

But even though I sound like I blame the people in reality I do sympathize.
An isolated family or individual has little recourse against a corporate body who behind closed doors conspire and consult,
and who have the cleverest sociologists, artists, psychologists at their disposal to put the people into an even deeper sleep, including slavery.
Turning them into energy producing batteries like in the first Matrix movie.

The thing is, even if there is a revolution and the people get their power back- unless there is a change of heart and the new leaders are truly ethical and even spiritual
nothing will change.
Humans need to wake up and see the bigger picture, the greater design.

Quote:

---

Posted by bearcow

Quote:

---

1. How does someone who can't "relax" and has no meditation experience learn to clear his chakras?

---

spend time in heavily wooded areas. if you breath vigorously while in a balanced environment, you will also start to come into balance.

---

Very true. Not always possible for someone who lives in a city.
I am fortunate to live in the country.
But in my view even looking at forests on Youtube can help.
Also music...the kind that is uplifting spiritually.

Quote:

---

Posted by ulli

But some structures will be needed to replace the old ones...
we will still need infra structure. We will still need government.
So who will be making those decisions after the old boy's club has been dismantled?

---

I'll suggest that, upon Unity Consciousness, WE will begin to make the necessary 'decisions' Together...
Also, we don't necessarily 'need' government... think about it... what Does 'gov't' do? Not much truly...
It is simply a control system, Over the 'creators' aka Workers who do the Actual Work.
What do our politicians do all day? They Talk, 'negotiate' and Pontificate... they don't do Any True Work. They are useless 'middlemen'.

The Workers generally know when and what Needs to be Done and How... and, if they have access to Knowledge of 'what' needs to be done, Without the 'controllers' aka 'politicians' - when We become the controllers via Consensus - then Organization becomes Universal.

At least that's one theory!

I'll also offer that, in that piece by Light Channels, it is suggested that We will be given the assistance we need for this 'transition'... and, I'll further suggest that there will be Many who can 'step-up' and offer their expertise when and where it's needed.

I have Great confidence that, as long as we remain Peaceful and Unified, there will be little that cannot be surmounted.

In Unity, Peace and LOVE

The following link that I just posted should probably be merged into this thread
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...869#post499869

Quote:

---

Research shows that exercise in a park is better for the individual than exercise in a gym because the interaction with nature has a rehabilitative effect ...

---

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/do...#ixzz1wgH4oEHW

Quote:

---

Posted by ulli

Quote:

---

Posted by bearcow

Quote:

---

1. How does someone who can't "relax" and has no meditation experience learn to clear his chakras?

---

spend time in heavily wooded areas. if you breath vigorously while in a balanced environment, you will also start to come into balance.

---

Very true. Not always possible for someone who lives in a city.
I am fortunate to live in the country.
But in my view even looking at forests on Youtube can help.
Also music...the kind that is uplifting spiritually.

---

A small ionizer, to get the negative ions. This can help tremendously.

Keep it clean, keep it turned on low, so it produces low levels of ozone. Keep it clean so it produces less ozone.

Forests are producers of negative ions.

This will also keep the particulate level low in the given environment, as it causes the particulate to clump together and fall to the ground (the negative charge in the air does it).

The given enclosed city environment will feel fresher, be fresher and feel almost invigorating. Just like the forest. One might notice, that the city only feels good after a spring rain or similar, when there is little wind. Just right after, and then, it's gone again. It is the low particulate count and the negative ions which are doing that. This came about due to the rain.

That's not all of it, but it is a good bit of it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_ioniser

I've got an ionizer that I can keep on low, at almost any time. I lucked out and found it at a decent price, otherwise I'd never have such a great unit. Like horsepower in car motors, there is no substitute for cubic inches. The same here. There is no substitute for cartridge size on an ionizer. That way you get low speed, high ionization and low ozone production, in a long lasting, easy to service unit. Mine is rated at being able to service 3000 sq ft of floor area. Here is an image of the cartridge. This unit/model is used in hospitals.

Yes, that is R.L. Burnside down there, for visual size relation.

Quote:

---

Posted by ulli

Quote:

---

Posted by risveglio

Two questions

1. How does someone who can't "relax" and has no meditation experience learn to clear his chakras?
2. Why will we still need government? I see government as the cause of most of our problems for at least the past 2500 years.

---

1. I studied Gurdjieff books. I learnt to observe myself, while doing my daily routine. My thoughts, posture, emotions. My awareness was still on the "world", the way it normally would be, but I included my own being in there somewhere. Normally, when people look at what is going on in a room they forget that they themselves are in there, too. Just like everyone else. A normal mortal.
That's how the work starts...the awakening to reality...it is a discipline. Observing reality.
After a while fantasizing becomes less and less, and meditative states while sitting quietly become easier. All that awareness makes self government easier.

2. Government. Just as the self needs to learn to dress themselves, feed themselves, take care of themselves, so a larger group needs to do the same.
Roads need to be built and maintained, security, health services, education, commerce...all of that needs to be organized or totally selfish gangs take over. Maybe even use extortion, demand protection moneys, like the Mafia, etc.
So the people need to pick leaders who represent them and have their best interest at heart.
If governments have failed the people it is because the people have not been vigilant enough
about checking that those leaders did the job they were elected to do.
Instead the people have trusted and lived in the delusion that all was taken care of,
and gradually corruption set in. By the time the people woke up it was too late to do anything about it.
So the people turned over and went back to sleep some more...even deeper this time.
Now the leaders have even more free reign to do what they want.
It has been a process...

But even though I sound like I blame the people in reality I do sympathize.
An isolated family or individual has little recourse against a corporate body who behind closed doors conspire and consult,
and who have the cleverest sociologists, artists, psychologists at their disposal to put the people into an even deeper sleep, including slavery.
Turning them into energy producing batteries like in the first Matrix movie.

The thing is, even if there is a revolution and the people get their power back- unless there is a change of heart and the new leaders are truly ethical and even spiritual
nothing will change.
Humans need to wake up and see the bigger picture, the greater design.

---

Thanks, I will check out the Gurdjieff books. As someone leaning towards Voluntarism, I can not agree that we need government. I see the elimination of the concepts of needing government as the only possible way for us to move out of our cages but I can be wrong, wouldn't be the first time.

Quote:

---

Posted by risveglio

Quote:

---

Posted by ulli

Quote:

---

Posted by risveglio

Two questions

1. How does someone who can't "relax" and has no meditation experience learn to clear his chakras?
2. Why will we still need government? I see government as the cause of most of our problems for at least the past 2500 years.

---

1. I studied Gurdjieff books. I learnt to observe myself, while doing my daily routine. My thoughts, posture, emotions. My awareness was still on the "world", the way it normally would be, but I included my own being in there somewhere. Normally, when people look at what is going on in a room they forget that they themselves are in there, too. Just like everyone else. A normal mortal.
That's how the work starts...the awakening to reality...it is a discipline. Observing reality.
After a while fantasizing becomes less and less, and meditative states while sitting quietly become easier. All that awareness makes self government easier.

2. Government. Just as the self needs to learn to dress themselves, feed themselves, take care of themselves, so a larger group needs to do the same.
Roads need to be built and maintained, security, health services, education, commerce...all of that needs to be organized or totally selfish gangs take over. Maybe even use extortion, demand protection moneys, like the Mafia, etc.
So the people need to pick leaders who represent them and have their best interest at heart.
If governments have failed the people it is because the people have not been vigilant enough
about checking that those leaders did the job they were elected to do.
Instead the people have trusted and lived in the delusion that all was taken care of,
and gradually corruption set in. By the time the people woke up it was too late to do anything about it.
So the people turned over and went back to sleep some more...even deeper this time.
Now the leaders have even more free reign to do what they want.
It has been a process...

But even though I sound like I blame the people in reality I do sympathize.
An isolated family or individual has little recourse against a corporate body who behind closed doors conspire and consult,
and who have the cleverest sociologists, artists, psychologists at their disposal to put the people into an even deeper sleep, including slavery.
Turning them into energy producing batteries like in the first Matrix movie.

The thing is, even if there is a revolution and the people get their power back- unless there is a change of heart and the new leaders are truly ethical and even spiritual
nothing will change.
Humans need to wake up and see the bigger picture, the greater design.

---

Thanks, I will check out the Gurdjieff books. As someone leaning towards Voluntarism, I can not agree that we need government. I see the elimination of the concepts of needing government as the only possible way for us to move out of our cages but I can be wrong, wouldn't be the first time.

---

I think the word "government" may need a closer definition.
No government means no roads, no highways.
No public education.
No more tap water.
No more garbage collection.
No more fire fighters.
No hospitals other than private clinics.
No social security for the elderly.
No funding for public projects.
No museums.
No airports.
No more bridges to cross rivers.
No public transportation.
How would such a world work for you?

Quote:

---

Posted by ulli

Quote:

---

Posted by risveglio

Quote:

---

Posted by ulli

Quote:

---

Posted by risveglio

Two questions

1. How does someone who can't "relax" and has no meditation experience learn to clear his chakras?
2. Why will we still need government? I see government as the cause of most of our problems for at least the past 2500 years.

---

1. I studied Gurdjieff books. I learnt to observe myself, while doing my daily routine. My thoughts, posture, emotions. My awareness was still on the "world", the way it normally would be, but I included my own being in there somewhere. Normally, when people look at what is going on in a room they forget that they themselves are in there, too. Just like everyone else. A normal mortal.
That's how the work starts...the awakening to reality...it is a discipline. Observing reality.
After a while fantasizing becomes less and less, and meditative states while sitting quietly become easier. All that awareness makes self government easier.

2. Government. Just as the self needs to learn to dress themselves, feed themselves, take care of themselves, so a larger group needs to do the same.
Roads need to be built and maintained, security, health services, education, commerce...all of that needs to be organized or totally selfish gangs take over. Maybe even use extortion, demand protection moneys, like the Mafia, etc.
So the people need to pick leaders who represent them and have their best interest at heart.
If governments have failed the people it is because the people have not been vigilant enough
about checking that those leaders did the job they were elected to do.
Instead the people have trusted and lived in the delusion that all was taken care of,
and gradually corruption set in. By the time the people woke up it was too late to do anything about it.
So the people turned over and went back to sleep some more...even deeper this time.
Now the leaders have even more free reign to do what they want.
It has been a process...

But even though I sound like I blame the people in reality I do sympathize.
An isolated family or individual has little recourse against a corporate body who behind closed doors conspire and consult,
and who have the cleverest sociologists, artists, psychologists at their disposal to put the people into an even deeper sleep, including slavery.
Turning them into energy producing batteries like in the first Matrix movie.

The thing is, even if there is a revolution and the people get their power back- unless there is a change of heart and the new leaders are truly ethical and even spiritual
nothing will change.
Humans need to wake up and see the bigger picture, the greater design.

---

Thanks, I will check out the Gurdjieff books. As someone leaning towards Voluntarism, I can not agree that we need government. I see the elimination of the concepts of needing government as the only possible way for us to move out of our cages but I can be wrong, wouldn't be the first time.

---

I think the word "government" may need a closer definition.
No government means no roads, no highways.
No public education.
No more tap water.
No more garbage collection.
No more fire fighters.
No hospitals other than private clinics.
No social security for the elderly.
No funding for public projects.
No museums.
No airports.
No more bridges to cross rivers.
No public transportation.
How would such a world work for you?

---

That is untrue, you can have all those things without "government". Especially roads, highways, tap water, garbage collection, fire fighters, museums, airports, and bridges. I think that fallacy that we need government to have these things is part of the programming by the PTB.

It sounds like a translational issue, more than anything.

Govern can have more than one meaning.

'Govern' in the proper context that we'd like to see it used, is to husband, or Shepard those aspects of societal function and grease/gears.

'Govern', in some people's minds... means king or lord -- over that of peasant or serf.

It is a word, don't give it too much power over the self - via it's reflection.

Odds are, both of you are probably close to agreement on this, once the issue and it's smoke is cleared, surrounding definition. But in the end, it is only a word, not the thing itself. And even the thing itself is not really much more or less than that word. More reflection.

Quote:

---

Posted by risveglio

Quote:

---

Posted by ulli

Quote:

---

Posted by risveglio

Quote:

---

Posted by ulli

Quote:

---

Posted by risveglio

Two questions

1. How does someone who can't "relax" and has no meditation experience learn to clear his chakras?
2. Why will we still need government? I see government as the cause of most of our problems for at least the past 2500 years.

---

1. I studied Gurdjieff books. I learnt to observe myself, while doing my daily routine. My thoughts, posture, emotions. My awareness was still on the "world", the way it normally would be, but I included my own being in there somewhere. Normally, when people look at what is going on in a room they forget that they themselves are in there, too. Just like everyone else. A normal mortal.
That's how the work starts...the awakening to reality...it is a discipline. Observing reality.
After a while fantasizing becomes less and less, and meditative states while sitting quietly become easier. All that awareness makes self government easier.

2. Government. Just as the self needs to learn to dress themselves, feed themselves, take care of themselves, so a larger group needs to do the same.
Roads need to be built and maintained, security, health services, education, commerce...all of that needs to be organized or totally selfish gangs take over. Maybe even use extortion, demand protection moneys, like the Mafia, etc.
So the people need to pick leaders who represent them and have their best interest at heart.
If governments have failed the people it is because the people have not been vigilant enough
about checking that those leaders did the job they were elected to do.
Instead the people have trusted and lived in the delusion that all was taken care of,
and gradually corruption set in. By the time the people woke up it was too late to do anything about it.
So the people turned over and went back to sleep some more...even deeper this time.
Now the leaders have even more free reign to do what they want.
It has been a process...

But even though I sound like I blame the people in reality I do sympathize.
An isolated family or individual has little recourse against a corporate body who behind closed doors conspire and consult,
and who have the cleverest sociologists, artists, psychologists at their disposal to put the people into an even deeper sleep, including slavery.
Turning them into energy producing batteries like in the first Matrix movie.

The thing is, even if there is a revolution and the people get their power back- unless there is a change of heart and the new leaders are truly ethical and even spiritual
nothing will change.
Humans need to wake up and see the bigger picture, the greater design.

---

Thanks, I will check out the Gurdjieff books. As someone leaning towards Voluntarism, I can not agree that we need government. I see the elimination of the concepts of needing government as the only possible way for us to move out of our cages but I can be wrong, wouldn't be the first time.

---

I think the word "government" may need a closer definition.
No government means no roads, no highways.
No public education.
No more tap water.
No more garbage collection.
No more fire fighters.
No hospitals other than private clinics.
No social security for the elderly.
No funding for public projects.
No museums.
No airports.
No more bridges to cross rivers.
No public transportation.
How would such a world work for you?

---

That is untrue, you can have all those things without "government". Especially roads, highways, tap water, garbage collection, fire fighters, museums, airports, and bridges. I think that fallacy that we need government to have these things is part of the programming by the PTB.

---

So why don't you tell me how it is to be done? Maybe your idea of government is better than mine.
By the way, when I think of government I am not thinking of a bunch of corrupt congressmen.
Nothing to do with the PTB.

Quote:

---

Posted by ulli

So why don't you tell me how it is to be done? Maybe your idea of government is better than mine.
By the way, when I think of government I am not thinking of a bunch of corrupt congressmen.
Nothing to do with the PTB.

---

Well I am no expert and there is a lot better information out there on a Voluntarist society and I could not do it justice. For me it is new and just where my current belief lies. I just see government as a middle man that usually takes more than its fair share, picks winners and losers and always grows into corruption. Government, at least in its current form, pits people against each other for its own gain.

Carmody is probably right and this is just a matter of communication but there are plenty examples of private roads, bridges, museums, and garbage collection that seems to do a far better job than what is done by the state. There are also plenty of towns, at least here in the US with volunteer firemen and ambulance services.

Here is a quick introduction to Volutaryism, I struggle with it myself at times and find myself playing devil's advocate for and against since I find that to be the best way for me to come to a conclusion. As I said, I could be wrong, but I am not aware of a war that was not started by a government.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=AETHY9SuxEc

This is very good. I had never heard of it. I wasn't thinking in terms of the present system either.
Anyway, those who serve the community do so in the spirit of service. That is the ideal. And I firmly believe that after the current crisis has ended a new generation of people will arise and do such service gladly.
This current period will be remembered as a warning to future generations.
Life goes on.
All is well.

Quote:

---

Posted by onawah

The following link that I just posted should probably be merged into this thread
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...869#post499869

---

Related, but different focus of threads. I'm happy to leave things as they are, with your link connecting the two threads.

For those interested here is a lovely meditation opportunity for the full moon and the Venus transit. I love this chamber for the high frequency I feel in it. It's free to join.

GCI Care Focus: Current and Archived
GCI Care Focus: June 2012 Full Moon Synchronized Care Focus

http://www.glcoherence.org/participa...-archived.html

Quote:

---

Posted by risveglio

Government, at least in its current form, pits people against each other for its own gain.

Carmody is probably right and this is just a matter of communication but there are plenty examples of private roads, bridges, museums, and garbage collection that seems to do a far better job than what is done by the state. There are also plenty of towns, at least here in the US with volunteer firemen and ambulance services.

Here is a quick introduction to Volutaryism, I struggle with it myself at times and find myself playing devil's advocate for and against since I find that to be the best way for me to come to a conclusion. As I said, I could be wrong, but I am not aware of a war that was not started by a government.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=AETHY9SuxEc

---

Thank you risveglio! I had seen this a while ago and thought it a great teaching, but had forgotten all about it. I'll offer that this idea of Voluntaryism is as old as humanity itself. It is how our ancestors, millennia ago, organized themselves. Self-sufficiency was the rule, and we helped one-another as needed. Communities were smaller and, thus, everyone had greater autonomy with a resultant increase on interdependency, as everyone filled a needed skill for the community as a whole. In this instance, it can be seen that smaller is better.

However, the 'modern' idea of 'gov't', truly came from the basic idea of 'monarchy' - a ruling class, and servile class, most recently developed and implemented in Europe. This basic concept evolved, via the emergence of 'democracy' particularly through the creation of the Republican idea of the United States, to the point, now, that we think of ourselves as a 'Democracy'. In truth, 'democracy', in it's full form, is a very negative form of gov't, as the majority (51%) basically rules Over the minority, sometimes quite severely. That is why the US was instituted as a Republic, using democratic means to elect leaders. However, the Autonomy of Individuals was sacrosanct, and the foundation of this concept. This started changing in recent times, where leaders were harping on the idea that the US was a 'democracy', and of late, we began attacking countries to 'instill democracy'. I could go on, but I feel this video is particularly succinct in offering a better view of this concept (somewhat long, but the first 10 minutes or so offer a basic outline);

https://youtube.com/watch?v=jAdu0N1-tvU

In Unity, Peace and LOVE

I saw clearly what he is speaking about. Colletivism can also be termed: "running the entire planet from one office".
And there are a lot of people who have that goal.
Many years ago I saw a book in German, where someone had published letters written between Marx and Engels, or was it Hegel...
anyway, the line about running the world from one office was in there, and it was used by Marx, in a rather cynical and nasty context,
of first deceiving the people to believe that they are in charge, and then taking over.
Later I became aware of more conspiracies, and the term CCC was then being used. CCC stood for the Capitalist Communist Conspiracy.

I should make it clear that when I speak of government I am not thinking of Washington DC at all...
thinking more in terms of how a small village can organize itself...
in other words, the ideal blueprint of government, at the grassroots level.
More like a Native American tribe. Consultation and a fair decision-making process.
With no hidden powers scheming behind the scenes.

Quote:

---

Posted by ulli

I should make it clear that when I speak of government I am not thinking of Washington DC at all...
thinking more in terms of how a small village can organize itself...
in other words, the ideal blueprint of government, at the grassroots level.
More like a Native American tribe. Consultation and a fair decision-making process.
With no hidden powers scheming behind the scenes.

---

Exactly!
This is the model I suggested in my post. It is Also the model, with an extension to a national level, that is offered as an example in Thiaoouba Prophecy, as in the case of Mu.

Democracy, based on Integrity of the Individual with the Well-being of the Community foremost. This concept being the foundation of any public servant's role, WITHOUT REMUNERATION (No Money). Everything is done for the Betterment of the Society, with the focus of the Individual's sanctity as well as the Spiritual and physical well-being of said individual at the core.

I won't belabor this point... I would hope the benefits of this model are self-evident.

In Unity, Peace and LOVE

My thoughts in the matter are:

The problem comes when we get to the density where the town is big enough that there are persons you don't recognize.

This is the breeding ground for reflective narcissistic (politics) (STS overcomes STO)... and sociopathy.

Thus, common sense, empathy and compassion, via connection... disappear into LAW.

As I said in another thread..this seems to happen right around the 10,000 population mark/point, in a isolated grouping. If NOT isolated, the number happens at a lower population, simply due to capacity to easily move about and loose familiarity with one's neighbors and compatriots.

Below that population point, people will tend to band together, above that, it begins to move toward some level of disintegration, that enforced law is required or used as social cement. This, concerning human beings at their current level of development and integration.

When seriously high levels of population erupt, the association and empathic connection is lost..fear/unknown/unknowing/unfamiliarity/'defense mode thinking' becomes the base form of analysis... and people become subjectively objectified - in each other. Law is the real cement at that point, in most cases, due to the overwhelming aspects of how people run their lives like an emotionally driven automaton.

The human population, in most ways, runs itself like a predictable animal herd of a sort - regarding large groups.

I agree completely. The other thing that means egos are involved is when you have people running for office and campaigning.

The best thing is to have the entire village elect their leaders via plurality vote.
Knowing who the brightest lights are by having plenty of social activities then each member of such community can have a shot at a nine name ballot.
Secret ballot. No corruption.
If a community elects idiots they only have themselves to blame.
Those who get the most votes then run the municipality. Like a board of directors. To execute the decisions they make they appoint committees.
This is the essence of the Bahai revelation by the way, to serve as a blueprint to a future society.

Lovely talk here, thanks. My curiosity is why should the human-to-land-ratio exist period? What is scarcity all about? This all might well indicate we are the midst of heavy-duty schooling system experience. Where in fact the bigger (current events/ real world) societal systems could crash. Due to the oppressive ingredients of our lessons. To provoke us students with apparently needed stimulation. To design and build worthy models. Models that actually are filled with all the little and big features of a workable, livable life.

Perhaps to feel better about the current dilemma, we can just suppose that this school like dream will have a wakeup coming (soon?). We need all the prep we resonate with. In order to wake up or 'graduate' in the next phase. Or is it a next phase, each to there own type of phase after this phase. Not necessarily to be hordes into cramped world conditions again, full of psychopaths or AIs gone beserk. To lay out what we learned in this life. Perhaps to carry along the hard earned inspiration and stimulation form earth. Take these things to our next existence.

Was it Arthur C Clark who stated that once a city reaches 1,000,000 in population, chaos reigns? Could have been Asimov...