Racism

[Maia Gabrial]

To me, it looks like these days, the ones accusing everyone of racism are the racists. If things don't go their way, they scream racism.

[Chris Gilbert]

Posted by Praxis (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
I'm pretty sure she'd looked on Avalon, which I'd mentioned to her, and figured that we were all somehow enemies of humanity. It was a shame.

My Wife experiences constant racism in the united states. CONSTANT. It is not ignorant people with nooses burning crosses on our lawn, it is talking to her like she is 9 at hospital. It is how she is treated when buying groceries.

It is small, subtly things that many do not even realize is racist when they are doing it. Many times they flow off her but these things add up little by little. This is what systemic racism is. It is not just laws that are overtly racist like the electoral college and black people being 3/5s of a person, it is also the attitudes and actions of daily people who embody Whiteness, which again does NOT exist and is vestige or racist Monarchical systems and later racist Republican(Republican France, which still held racist policies for much of the republic,) and still later the First Empire which tried to re enslave Haiti.

I agree with you that these things do happen, and are very saddening.

Where I disagree however, is how terms like "racism" "systemic racism" or "whiteness" get bandied about among SJW/left leaning folk. When it comes to the term racism for instance, it usually includes either an overt or subtle implication of active hatred against "the other". While some might be hateful, many are simply prejudiced or ignorant to some degree. And as far as prejudice goes, it's a natural human tendency to have a level of unconscious bias to those who are similar vs. different, as studies of infants have revealed. While those who have immigrated to the Anglosphere or Europe do undoubtedly encounter unfair bias or prejudice, I would argue that Anglos/Europeans who expat to Asia or South America encounter plenty of bias as well (it's very hard for Westerners to integrate into Japan for instance).

Do some of us on here have a level of bias, either conscious or unconscious? We certainly do, like all humans, and I agree we should strive to be conscious of moments where our bias can influence us. In terms of outright racial hatred however, I have not observed that currently on Avalon over the last year, and in the past instance where I did, those members have since been banned.

Of course, it is also a question of what kind of bias? If it is bias towards appearance and such, that is certainly something that should be avoided. In terms of cultural bias, when push to comes to shove, despite its flaws, I certainly do not see 3rd Epoch shame/revenge based cultural mores as being on the same level of 4th Epoch Western Enlightenment/rule by law or Eastern Buddhist values. That's part of why I find SJW/cancel thinking so alarming, as it seems to be dialing back the clock as it were. On that note, I do not consider my "bias" on that particular subject to be a bad thing.

In terms of systemic racism, we could argue to that there are disadvantages that occur based on group and geographical area. Even just here in Michigan, I know I had more advantages (better schools and wealth) growing up in Washtenaw County, versus those who grew up in Wayne County (the Detroit area). While racism could have been involved somewhere down the line however, much of it now is due to domino effects of inter-generational poverty or dysfunctional cultural values. While I certainly want to see such problems solved, I don't see it going away till the 5th Epoch when free energy comes into public use. The political measures taken to solve such things now, when they aren't simply ineffective, are less about helping the target groups and more about political footballs and power plays.

I could elaborate further, but in short, I agree with you that we can be biased, but that doesn't mean we need to use the establishment/MSM terminology for such. Per your other comments about Trump/Q, I agree in part, I see that as a dead end dragging us down just like Simon Parks, Corey Goode and other narcissist conmen. It's a particular problem in the alternative community, and one I may speak more about in another thread in the future.

[safara]

Was born in Rhodesia, lived and holidayed in South Africa during apartheid, schooled in both Rhodesia, and later Zimbabwe for secondary education. Family have now all left Zimbabwe during the issues of the first decase of the 21st century. Now live in a more and more separatist and marginalist UK.

Have seen, experienced and been affected greatly by racism over the years.

Regarding the All Lives Matter movement.

Only ONCE Black Lives Matter, White Lives Matter, Yellow, Brown and Green Rainbow Lives Matter - can you THEN say ALL Lives Matter.

Until then the human race is still in need of empathetic education and the statement "All Lives Matter" has no authority.

[atman]

When radical anti-hate and anti-racism activism becomes a conduit for extreme forms of hate and racism...

__________________________________________

Concern After European ‘Anti-Hate’ Group Boss Discussed ‘Necessity’ of Killing White People

by CHRIS TOMLINSON - 24 Nov 2020


Mamadou Ba, head of the Portuguese “anti-hate” group SOS Racismo, spoke of the need to “kill the white man” at a recent online conference on “hate speech”.

Ba, a Portuguese citizen originally from Senegal, attended the conference on Saturday which was on the topic of “Racism and the Advancement of Hate Speech in the World”.

During the conference, which was attended by Portuguese speakers from Portugal and Brazil, Ba stated “it is necessary to kill the white man, murderer, colonial, and racist” to “prevent the social death of the black political subject”.

According to a report from Portuguese daily newspaper Correio da Manhã, the statement was a quote from Algerian far-left anti-colonialist political philosopher Frantz Fanon, who openly advocated for violence during the French rule of Algeria in his seminal work The Wretched of the Earth.

Exclusive Video: BLM Activist Says White Men Are ‘The Common Enemy’, ‘We Need to Get Rid of Them’ https://t.co/jdp2Cz3e85

— Breitbart London (@BreitbartLondon) July 21, 2020

The newspaper states that it is not clear whether Ba was quoting the far-left philosopher, but said it was presumed he did so in agreement.

“Refutation is part of the proposition, but what matters most to combat hate speech is to propose a new narrative,” Ba said during the online meeting.

Earlier this year, the European Network Against Racism (ENAR), which is partnered with Hungarian-American billionaire George Soros’s Open Society Foundations, called for support of SOS Rascimo, which it described as one of the “founding members” of the ENAR.

According to the ENAR, Ba and other activists had been sent threats online, and Ba himself had received a letter with a bullet casing inside it.

Plurality of French Say 'Anti-White' Racism is a Problem in France https://t.co/yhRBTsZWAv

— Breitbart London (@BreitbartLondon) June 21, 2020

The incident is not the first controversial moment for a so-called “anti-hate” group in Europe, many of which have direct ties to both Open Society Foundations and George Soros, such as Hope Not Hate in the UK which was identified in a Swedish military report on far-left extremism in 2018.

In Germany, the anti-hate Amadeau Antonio Stiftung, headed by former Stasi informant Anetta Kahane, sparked controversy after releasing a guide for schools to spot “Nazi parents”.

[Ernie Nemeth]

The world is changing. A rising tide of dissatisfaction is being injected into the narrative. This is not the liberal movement of the 1960s, whose main theme had been 'love'. Sixty years later the new 'liberal' movement delivers us a 'hate' message that most of us from the 60s are excluded from. Such a message cannot rally a groundswell of grassroots support. Such a message can only lead to division.

Inclusion is the only way forward. That does not begin with one side being stamped as racist for having an opinion.

If you say to me that we need a new social contract, I would agree. If the next step is me apologizing for being a racist - you've lost me.

And if the solution is burning and looting and cheating and intimidating and doxing and lying and shadow banning and slanting news and slandering opponents and defunding police and stealing elections then I know that movement is evil and must be resisted.

We need a new social contract. We need to address systemic corruption in government, in banking, in media, in big business. This is where the true racists are. These are the ones driving the narrative of hate - fueled by billions of dollars that they have fleeced of the flock in those same sixty years.

We may have failed younger generations back in the sixties when most of us sold out to the very forces we eschewed. But our movement was real. Take that message and turn it to the cause. Include us in the proud multi-cultural heritage we all represent. Do not drag us through the mud so that bruised and dirty we can proclaim our common victimhood. The authorities have no empathy, they will not capitulate out of sympathy.

Only together, as one voice with many healthy opinions, in solidarity, will we succeed. The place we are heading is a miserable place full of fear, suspicion, animosity, and death.

Make Love not War!

[AutumnW]

I have started a few threads about the prison industrial complex, the plea bargaining system that puts the poor, largely black individual at a terrible disadvantage, the slave labor. Blacks are given lengthier sentences for the same crimes whites commit. Mike was one of the very few, if the only one who posted on one of those threads. Thank you, Mike.

If all lives matter than it behooves ALL of us to understand what is happening to the most vulnerable members of society. Because we don't see it, doesn't mean it isn't happening. It means we are white and middle class and it doesn't usually come up in our own lives.

Does anybody here even know about the circumstances surrounding the Ferguson, Missouri riots a few years back? I looked into it. I didn't believe "mainstream media" that it was just about a singular act of violence. What I found was pretty awful.

You, who claim all lives matter but won't put aside a half an hour, an hour, much less a few days of study to get a feel for people who are downtrodden.

This place is supposed to be about love and light, where science meets the spirit. I am not feeling it. I feel a whole lot of division, lack of basic understanding, lack of compassion.

I've done the damn work. I seek out quality unconflicted information from numerous sources. This isn't heroic. I am not bragging. It's about reaching for the lowest bar on a ladder that will hopefully lead to better understanding. I am not moved by people who enjoy the drama of kicking people when they are down, even if it comes from a position of ignorance.

Why have so many people left this forum. Let me put it as succinctly as I can.

WE CAN'T BREATHE!

[Gemma13]

AutumnW: I have started a few threads about the prison industrial complex, the plea bargaining system that puts the poor, largely black individual at a terrible disadvantage, the slave labor. Blacks are given lengthier sentences for the same crimes whites commit. Mike was one of the very few, if the only one who posted on one of those threads. Thank you, Mike.

If all lives matter than it behooves ALL of us to understand what is happening to the most vulnerable members of society. Because we don't see it, doesn't mean it isn't happening. It means we are white and middle class and it doesn't usually come up in our own lives.

Does anybody here even know about the circumstances surrounding the Ferguson, Missouri riots a few years back? I looked into it. I didn't believe "mainstream media" that it was just about a singular act of violence. What I found was pretty awful.

You, who claim all lives matter but won't put aside a half an hour, an hour, much less a few days of study to get a feel for people who are downtrodden.

This place is supposed to be about love and light, where science meets the spirit. I am not feeling it. I feel a whole lot of division, lack of basic understanding, lack of compassion.

I've done the damn work. I seek out quality unconflicted information from numerous sources. This isn't heroic. I am not bragging. It's about reaching for the lowest bar on a ladder that will hopefully lead to better understanding. I am not moved by people who enjoy the drama of kicking people when they are down, even if it comes from a position of ignorance.

Why have so many people left this forum. Let me put it as succinctly as I can.

WE CAN'T BREATHE!

Wow Autumn is playing the same record over and over the best you've got to contribute and expand on this thorny subject.  Sanctimonious hubris claiming self appointed  moral privilege based on ignorant assumptions and assertions about how much data members search for, study, absorb and process.

You are saying that if we had studied what you have we would undoubtedly arrive at the same conclusion as you, therefore because some members don't concede to your position our different analysis is dismissed by you by default of being uninformed.  Think you would be overwhelmingly shocked at how many people have done the damn work. 

It appears you are not interested in walking another mile, or two, in research that encapsulates and AGREES with what you continually expound on which then takes this sensitive topic into deeper and broader analysis.  Analysis and evidence which clearly defines that the motive and good will behind the slogan has sinister origins delivered as a trojan horse hijacking all the good we hoped and believed in our hearts it would achieve at the outset.

All lives matter is one form of resistence to the BLM trojan horse of deception and manipulation. It is calling on all races to unite in supporting awareness and subsequent change of specifics; like the industrial prison complex which is just one of the problems.

Racism today is not without problems but it is a hell of a long way forward than it was yesteryear.  The BLM leaders are trying to take their movement back to yesteryear to ensure we return to the ugliness of segregation.  Today the big picture Race Card is financially motivated because it generates great wealth for participants on both sides of the moral story and citizens are the puppets fuelling the cash cows on both sides.

Then there are the self serving participants seeking to immortalize themselves in history with their radical ideological publications, and of course, the never ending political tool.

All lives matter annihilates all of these deceptions instantly if we all raise the stakes, unite with behavioural intelligence, and refuse to engage in their chicanery.  Stop and think for a moment how powerful expounding globally on an all lives matter movement would be with all races holding hands in the streets.

Imagine the impetus for this then flooding into everyday lives when one person witnesses injustice to another wherever they find themselves. Imagine the phenomenal changes that could happen if all the celebrities, big tech giants, corporations, etc promoted and changed their rules for all lives matter.

Cancelling one race to highlight another is retarded and dangerous. All lives matter is a powerful WIN WIN.  You cannot claim it and then act in racist defiance and those orchestrating and promoting race segregation  damn well know it.

And other members have written succinctly about human nature and stigmas that can be broken down and erradicated very quickly with basic information and awareness regarding knee-jerk social stereotyping fears.

P.S.

Why have so many people left this forum. Let me put it as succinctly as I can.

WE CAN'T BREATHE!

Ummm isn't that somewhat hypocritical to what you are arguing i.e. exploiting the calling card of BLM for your own purpose.

[Constance]

ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

[TargeT]

Posted by Constance (here)

Posted by Gemma13 (here)
All lives matter annihilates all of these deceptions instantly if we all raise the stakes, unite with behavioural intelligence, and refuse to engage in their chicanery.  Stop and think for a moment how powerful expounding globally on an all lives matter movement would be with all races holding hands in the streets.

Imagine the impetus for this then flooding into everyday lives when one person witnesses injustice to another wherever they find themselves. Imagine the phenomenal changes that could happen if all the celebrities, big tech giants, corporations, etc promoted and changed their rules for all lives matter.

Cancelling one race to highlight another is retarded and dangerous. All lives matter is a powerful WIN WIN.  You cannot claim it and then act in racist defiance and those orchestrating and promoting race segregation  damn well know it.

Well said Gemma

Don't say that in the US..... you'll get attacked.

(if it's not clear, that's how far it's gone in large population cities here, plenty of video to back that up)

sans that, I do agree with your take... but anything that doesn't toe the "anti"FACIST line here seems to be shut down violently or via cancel culture.

History is going to love analysis of these last few decades.... well assuming history isn't re-written by "the victors"

[Mike]

John McWhorter is really someone we all should be listening to. Calm, grounded, highly intelligent. A black college professor talking frankly and simply about the black experience here in the U.S. Ignore the video title - I know it's triggering. He does challenge the current narrative of racism as all encompassing evil, but he is also even and fair to both sides. It's only 6 minutes long. Have a listen:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=WHSNylMV7kg

[AutumnW]

Are you addressing me or playing to a crowd, Gemma? You realize I was talking exclusively about the American prison system. Correct? I am not talking about petty pissy academia and their hair splitting preoccupations.

Gemma, What happened in Ferguson, Missouri? You have some strong slapback there, so instead of insulting me personally, while playing to a crowd, why don't you prove me wrong. Read a magazine article about it. "Oh, Autumn's playing that old boring schtick about mistreatment of vast numbers of prisoners in what amounts to a gulag. Oh yawn....think I'lll insult her." Yeah...that's the ticket.

Good on yah! You've reinforced my point. You are not defined soley by your area of focus and your feelings about others on a superficial basis. You are defined by how much you are willing to learn about them.

[TargeT]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Gemma, What happened in Ferguson, Missouri?

An extreme misrepresentation of the situation by the media, one of the early hard-pressed large scale weaponized uses of language and framing.

Have you read the reports and testimony or have you heard something from a headline? this is actually an excellent example of how media has been used to divide and conquer with 80% truth and 20% lies

I thought this was extremely known by now... I'm a bit shocked that you bring this up..... where did your information come from? you cannot fake gunshot wound entry and exits, we are excellent at forensics... or are the medical examiners and forensic teams all in on this random encounter? dozens of people that do not work directly together apart of an easily disproven coverup? The prosecutor and Internal Affairs ? Do you know how these groups work? This wasn't some small thing, as you well know.

I mean... I'm all for a good conspiracy ... but..

[AutumnW]

What I read, Target, was at least one lengthy magazine article, written well after the fact. Should I find it for you?

[Gemma13]

Posted by Gemma13 (here)

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Not all people in jails are 'guilty' many of them start out in that system for minor infractions and are then trapped by it. And I don't mean psychologically. I mean trapped trapped, like 'slave labor' for corporations trapped. How is this NOT the NWO on steroids?

This docoumentary provides good coverage of the U.S. prison system entrapment and how its inception came from Bill Clinton's policies. There's obvious cherrypicking and bias but the prison coverage was well presented I thought.

The Clintons have since "apologized" and claimed responsibility but its not enough and the interviewed don't think so either.

What bothered me though was the promotion of Obama as a good guy. But why didn't he do something about these horrors in his 8 years.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=krfcq5pF8u8

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Are you addressing me or playing to a crowd, Gemma? You realize I was talking exclusively about the American prison system. Correct? I am not talking about petty pissy academia and their hair splitting preoccupations.

Gemma, What happened in Ferguson, Missouri? You have some strong slapback there, so instead of insulting me personally, while playing to a crowd, why don't you prove me wrong. Read a magazine article about it. "Oh, Autumn's playing that old boring schtick about mistreatment of vast numbers of prisoners in what amounts to a gulag. Oh yawn....think I'lll insult her." Yeah...that's the ticket.

Good on yah! You've reinforced my point. You are not defined soley by your area of focus and your feelings about others on a superficial basis. You are defined by how much you are willing to learn about them.

I'm addressing you Autumn. Is my post made in June (linked above) enough proof for ya. I posted it in support of what you were sharing because I was very familiar with the topic. I have a diverse area of focus so don't need your magazine article link. :

https://www.theguardian.com/film/201...ist-past-award

Ava DuVernay on the legacy of slavery: ‘The sad truth is that some minds will not be changed’

EXCERPT: 

The [13th] film really gains steam during the post-civil rights era, as it shows successive presidents – Nixon, Reagan, Clinton – making seismic adjustments in crime and punishment (and in public perceptions) that substantially affect African-American lives. J Edgar Hoover criminalising black dissent, and even, in the case of people such as Angela Davis, criminalising black intellectual thought; the shifting of legal goalposts in Reagan’s war on drugs through to California’s three-strikes law and Clinton’s 1994 federal crime bill, which together quadrupled the national prison population and started a massive privatised prison-building programme (raising the need for more prisoners to make more profit). And from Trayvon Martin and Eric Garner to Ferguson and Trump, DuVernay weaves a web that, as she says, “crosses entire generations and affects entire communities”.

At its core is, as one of her many witnesses calls it, “a prison-industrial complex that eats black and Latino people for breakfast, lunch and dinner”.

[AutumnW]

Gemma,

Why the personal attack then? And why were you talking about me as if I wasn't "in the room". Did I launch on you, personally?

People on this forum who deny systemic racism exists in the U.S. are quite clearly racist themselves or blind. And as to your point about Obama's role in all of this, I agree and have made the point that the blame for much of it lies with Clinton for the three strikes law.

Attack me personally again, speak about me as If I am not present and I won't hold back. Got it?

[Gemma13]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Gemma,

Why the personal attack then? And why were you talking about me as if I wasn't "in the room". Did I launch on you, personally?

People on this forum who deny systemic racism exists in the U.S. are quite clearly racist themselves or blind. And as to your point about Obama's role in all of this, I agree and have made the point that the blame for much of it lies with Clinton for the three strikes law.

Attack me personally again, speak about me as If I am not present and I won't hold back. Got it?

Autumn I'm not sure how you figured I was talking as if you weren't in the room.

AutumnW:
Does anybody here even know about the circumstances surrounding the Ferguson, Missouri riots a few years back? I looked into it. I didn't believe "mainstream media" that it was just about a singular act of violence. What I found was pretty awful.

You, who claim all lives matter but won't put aside a half an hour, an hour, much less a few days of study to get a feel for people who are downtrodden

.
I was addressing you and your questions and insults to members en masse which includes me personally whether you single me out or not.  

And I did it candidly highlighting the hubris in the claims as this may be part of the problem of why you imagine people here are not as informed as you are.

If you perceive my reply to your post as a personal attack there's nothing I can do about that because I don't believe broadly targeting members provides your comments with an exemption to being challenged over their inaccuracy. 

No need to threaten me as I couldn't care less about your threats, but please, if it will make you feel better, don't hold back!

[Strat]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
You, who claim all lives matter but won't put aside a half an hour, an hour, much less a few days of study to get a feel for people who are downtrodden.

I wish we could do these debates in person and play the 'put your money where your mouth is' game.

[AutumnW]

UhHuh, what exactly do you mean, Strat? Nobody who has read about the lead up to the Ferguson episode, in depth, would be able to deny systemic racism. So again, what point are you trying to make?

And do you honestly think that the white middle class people on this thread have made an effort to learn anything about the black poverty stricken blacks?

Oh, Gemma excluded because she was spit on by Aborigines. That was obviously a learning experience of some kind.

That was the point of my post. Every time someone draws attention to the fact that "all lives matter" is dismissive they get jumped on.

It's become a PA illness of some sort. Don't you freqking dare stick up for blacks or ever infer that BLM is anything other than a covert Commie operation on this forum. No sir.

The fact that it is many things, particularly blacks honestly protesting police murder? Well, you just shut your mouth about that here. And don't dare criticize anybody about their "point of view" in that regard either.

[Gemma13]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
UhHuh, what exactly do you mean, Strat? Nobody who has read about the lead up to the Ferguson episode, in depth, would be able to deny systemic racism. So again, what point are you trying to make?

And do you honestly think that the white middle class people on this thread have made an effort to learn anything about the black poverty stricken blacks?

Oh, Gemma excluded because she was spit on by Aborigines. That was obviously a learning experience of some kind.

That was the point of my post. Every time someone draws attention to the fact that "all lives matter" is dismissive they get jumped on.

It's become a PA illness of some sort. Don't you freqking dare stick up for blacks or ever infer that BLM is anything other than a covert Commie operation on this forum. No sir.

The fact that it is many things, particularly blacks honestly protesting police murder? Well, you just shut your mouth about that here. And don't dare criticize anybody about their "point of view" in that regard either.

Once again your assumptions are so far off they aren't even remotely close.

There is no validity in stigmatizing good people simply because they don't agree with a specific doctrine on how to go about fixing inequality and persecution.

Incidently it just so happens my work has significant involvement in aboriginal support programs.  No biggie though because you've made up your mind that a lot of us here are uncaring, heartless, racist white people and it doesn't look like your willing to see us any other way.

Odd that you don't seem interested in contributing more about the issues and solutions preferring to whine away about being a victim because you think we're hell bent on stomping on you.

If you didn't throw the insults Autumn you might actually discover that we're on the same page.  We just differ in scholarly and "hijacked movement" interpretations.

[Karen (Geophyz)]

I respectfully ask everyone to take a deep breath and think before you post. We are not here to attack each other, we are here to have intelligent conversation and debate. We do not have to agree with each other but the attacks and insults need to stop.

Thanks everyone.