+ Reply to Thread
Page 27 of 31 FirstFirst 1 17 27 31 LastLast
Results 521 to 540 of 604

Thread: Racism

  1. Link to Post #521
    Avalon Member Jill's Avatar
    Join Date
    31st January 2011
    Posts
    435
    Thanks
    3,227
    Thanked 3,034 times in 389 posts

    Default Re: Racism

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
    Does anyone else find it problematic that Rahkyt quit our membership over this thread?
    No. We didn't want to see him leave, but he was insistent. However, here was the situation.

    If you go back and carefully read through what he wrote, Mark/Rahkyt was a Social Justice Warrior that supported Black Lives Matter and was enthusiastic about their increasing prominence and influence.

    He used many of the SJW/BLM keywords and key phrases in his posts. They can be searched. He was writing racism is prejudice plus power way back in 2012. That's rhetoric copied and pasted straight out of the SJW playbook.

    The All Lives Matter thread offended him. He was intelligent, college-educated (but that, too, can be a dangerous crucible), likeable, and always very courteous. But he was unable to see what was really happening and as early as 2016 was asserting that Avalon members were racist.

    They are not. He would never be able to understand this, but it was actually his own views that were racist, as defined by the stated need to treat people differently based on the color of their skin. That, too, is an inherently racist and divisive SJW ideology.
    Oh, I only popped in and out on the racism thread a few times in the past but after reading some comments here, I'll need to go back, start from the beginning and have a good read. I do recall his feedback on other threads and topics (mostly "spiritual"/mystic subjects) and always found his views on these topics interesting.

  2. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Jill For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (22nd November 2020), Constance (23rd November 2020), Deborah (ahamkara) (22nd November 2020), Ernie Nemeth (22nd November 2020), Franny (22nd November 2020), Ken (25th November 2020), Mike (22nd November 2020), rgray222 (22nd November 2020), TargeT (22nd November 2020)

  3. Link to Post #522
    United States Avalon Member TargeT's Avatar
    Join Date
    30th June 2011
    Location
    The Seat of Corruption
    Age
    41
    Posts
    8,192
    Thanks
    23,756
    Thanked 45,978 times in 7,709 posts

    Default Re: Racism

    Quote Posted by Jill (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
    Does anyone else find it problematic that Rahkyt quit our membership over this thread?
    No. We didn't want to see him leave, but he was insistent. However, here was the situation.

    If you go back and carefully read through what he wrote, Mark/Rahkyt was a Social Justice Warrior that supported Black Lives Matter and was enthusiastic about their increasing prominence and influence.

    He used many of the SJW/BLM keywords and key phrases in his posts. They can be searched. He was writing racism is prejudice plus power way back in 2012. That's rhetoric copied and pasted straight out of the SJW playbook.

    The All Lives Matter thread offended him. He was intelligent, college-educated (but that, too, can be a dangerous crucible), likeable, and always very courteous. But he was unable to see what was really happening and as early as 2016 was asserting that Avalon members were racist.

    They are not. He would never be able to understand this, but it was actually his own views that were racist, as defined by the stated need to treat people differently based on the color of their skin. That, too, is an inherently racist and divisive SJW ideology.
    Oh, I only popped in and out on the racism thread a few times in the past but after reading some comments here, I'll need to go back, start from the beginning and have a good read. I do recall his feedback on other threads and topics (mostly "spiritual"/mystic subjects) and always found his views on these topics interesting.
    strongly held beliefs are awesome motivators.. but also awesome blinders...

    it's unfortunate that disagreement causes some people to throw their hands up and leave... but discussion must continue, else we gain nothing from the loss.
    Hard times create strong men, Strong men create good times, Good times create weak men, Weak men create hard times.
    Where are you?

  4. The Following 14 Users Say Thank You to TargeT For This Post:

    Alan (23rd November 2020), Bill Ryan (22nd November 2020), Chris Gilbert (24th November 2020), ClearWater (27th November 2020), Constance (23rd November 2020), Deborah (ahamkara) (22nd November 2020), Ewan (23rd November 2020), Franny (22nd November 2020), Jill (22nd November 2020), Ken (25th November 2020), Mike (22nd November 2020), PurpleLama (22nd November 2020), rgray222 (22nd November 2020), Star Mariner (23rd November 2020)

  5. Link to Post #523
    Australia Avalon Member Constance's Avatar
    Join Date
    26th January 2011
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Language
    English
    Age
    56
    Posts
    2,892
    Thanks
    18,012
    Thanked 19,812 times in 2,764 posts

    Default Re: Racism

    Something that I have noticed is whenever people start to get personal with, or about each other (or even about Avalon) in a critical manner about what is being discussed/debated, it can create disharmony and take away from the discussion.

    I'm not saying this to bring about any guilt, shame or blame upon anyone, I just thought/felt it worth a mention to bring to conscious awareness what I've observed. If this was already obvious to anyone reading this here, please forgive me.

  6. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Constance For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (23rd November 2020), Ewan (23rd November 2020), Franny (23rd November 2020), Harmony (24th November 2020), Jill (23rd November 2020), Ken (25th November 2020), Star Mariner (23rd November 2020), Star Tsar (24th November 2020), TargeT (23rd November 2020)

  7. Link to Post #524
    Canada Avalon Member Ernie Nemeth's Avatar
    Join Date
    25th January 2011
    Location
    Toronto
    Age
    62
    Posts
    4,356
    Thanks
    18,285
    Thanked 25,834 times in 4,097 posts

    Default Re: Racism

    Embarrassment for me is living in this world, and the shame is how it could actually be. Little personal foibles matter little or not at all, although they may seem like insurmountable challenges.

    The problematic part was not hinting at 'dirty deeds done dirt cheap' or anything to do with mods or Bill. It was referencing the fact that Rahkyt stated that he quit because he could not be a member of a group who would not accept systemic racism as a real dynamic.

    That combined with the fact that he stated he was in some sort of public office hinted that his public reputation could be slandered if he was associated with Avalon. I immediately thought that meant he was involved in SJW stuff or at the very least in some capacity part of the Democratic party. They do not like such forums, where truth is discussed openly, and not just regurgitating talking points about their movement.

    So since he left I have been reexamining my bias and prejudice to see what I may have missed. The last post is all I got and is the farthest I can reach towards Mark/Rahkyt's point of view.

    Not surprised about your revelations, Bill. In many ways I was thinking or suspecting the same. I don't like it when intelligent, thoughtful people decide to leave Avalon. I think of how I might have behaved differently or how I could have intervened to stop it.

    He is not the only one that I have had that sentiment for, he won't be the last. But the topic is a hot button topic right now, and very much worthy of review. The facts in this thread are ammunition against SJWs and others that have removed the facts and left poor logical analysis, or it could be argued left empty platitudes, behind in its stead.
    Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water...Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. Bruce Lee

  8. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Ernie Nemeth For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (23rd November 2020), Constance (23rd November 2020), Ewan (23rd November 2020), Franny (24th November 2020), Harmony (24th November 2020), Jill (24th November 2020), Ken (25th November 2020)

  9. Link to Post #525
    Avalon Member
    Join Date
    21st July 2010
    Age
    34
    Posts
    711
    Thanks
    326
    Thanked 3,289 times in 613 posts

    Default Re: Racism

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
    Does anyone else find it problematic that Rahkyt quit our membership over this thread?
    No. We didn't want to see him leave, but he was insistent. However, here was the situation.

    If you go back and carefully read through what he wrote, Mark/Rahkyt was a Social Justice Warrior that supported Black Lives Matter and was enthusiastic about their increasing prominence and influence.

    He used many of the SJW/BLM keywords and key phrases in his posts. They can be searched. He was writing racism is prejudice plus power way back in 2012. That's rhetoric copied and pasted straight out of the SJW playbook.

    The All Lives Matter thread offended him. He was intelligent, college-educated (but that, too, can be a dangerous crucible), likeable, and always very courteous. But he was unable to see what was really happening and as early as 2016 was asserting that Avalon members were racist.

    They are not. He would never be able to understand this, but it was actually his own views that were racist, as defined by the stated need to treat people differently based on the color of their skin. That, too, is an inherently racist and divisive SJW ideology.
    Ewwww.

    All Lives matter is offensive because it is a response to a movement that has legit grievances. It is a meme produced by Fox news and other reactionaries and the like to make you not focus on the POLICE STATE and the fact that the police state murders so many innocent people. Takes so many innocent people's property with no recourse for the citizen(regardless of color).

    The same people saying all lives matter probably think Rittenhouse is a hero of some sort. Shows how hollow their words are.

    There are racist people here. They might be low key and not hanging out on Storm Front website but they are racist.

    If you think there is a white genocide happening. You are a racist. If you think white people is anything more than a social construct, then you are racist upholding racist memes.

    Again, I have to stress that people who disagree with this point of view are ignorant of history and specifically the Haitian revolution. I have gone over this, maybe if in this very thread on why the term and concept of "white people" is a vestige of racists system of the past(mainly Bourbon France for the Haitian example).

    Does this mean that people who have the skin tone that is colloquial called "white" are not real people and do not have a culture of their own? Absolutely not. Should these people be hurt or culled in any way? NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Needed to bold that because I promise someone is gonna make a VERY ignorant argument at me because of this previous sentence.

    If you, yes you reading this, can not make this distinction and keep insisting white culture is being destroyed, then congrats you are in the same camp as Neo Nazis. You are using Neo Nazi talking points.

    How does it feel to be making the same arguments as the Storm Front? Does it feel good to be keeping company and making the same rhetorical arguments as the Storm Front?
    So just like you accuse mark of using SJW terms,like it is a bad thing for people to have justice, I will accuse white genocide people of talking like Nazis.

    Which one is worse to mimic? People who want justice for all humans, or the Storm Front?

    The way you speak of social justice warriors is very telling Bill. Look at how easy you otherize people using that term. I wonder could you produce an example of an SJW in your personal life? Like someone you physically have met or come into contact with, Or is this simply something you see online?

    Is identity politics trash and actually hurting our society? YES. VERY FIRM YES. They focus on the wrong thing and use it as a race to victimhood and play victim olympics. Some of them take it to the same extent White nationalist do and I have just as much contempt for White nationalism as I do for ANY ethnonationalism.

  10. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Praxis For This Post:

    AutumnW (24th November 2020), Ken (25th November 2020), loungelizard (24th November 2020), Oxygen (25th November 2020)

  11. Link to Post #526
    Canada Avalon Member
    Join Date
    4th November 2012
    Posts
    2,943
    Thanks
    5,359
    Thanked 12,512 times in 2,598 posts

    Default Re: Racism

    Right on, Praxis. You took the words right out of my mouth! Bill, you should be doing some serious thinking about the impact of your words. You are becoming less and less impartial. Mark was a bit of an SJW. The term triggers a lot of people who don't understand all the ins and outs, fabrications , propaganda and manipulations involved around the entire subject.

    Black lives matter. They really do and when you say "all lives matter" it negates the point the expression is trying to make.

    If you were to run across someone in your daily life who had been ill treated, described to you how, and then stated emphatically, "you know. My life matters!" Would you neutralize an expression of pain, by tossing it off with an, "all lives matter."
    Last edited by AutumnW; 24th November 2020 at 08:24.

  12. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to AutumnW For This Post:

    Ken (25th November 2020), Oxygen (25th November 2020)

  13. Link to Post #527
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th February 2010
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    25,416
    Thanks
    105,717
    Thanked 322,575 times in 23,900 posts

    Default Re: Racism

    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    I wonder could you produce an example of an SJW in your personal life? Like someone you physically have met or come into contact with, Or is this simply something you see online?
    Yes, I met a 'real one' locally in July, a very pleasant and intelligent expat American woman who had a mountain dog of her own (we'd met in the vet's waiting room) and we went for a long, full day's hike in the mountains when my own dog, Mara, was laid up.

    Unlike many online SJWs who'd done nothing except post nasty articles on blogs, she'd done the real work in refugee camps (which was impressive), worked with NGOs, and traveled in Africa. I was most interested to listen to her, and over many hours I asked her a whole bunch of questions about her life, travels, views and experience, and she answered them all at length.

    It was very one-sided. She barely asked me anything about myself at all (not a problem for me, but it was an interesting imbalance). Just about the only strong statement I made was in response to her support of Bill Gates, where I shared that I didn't trust him one tiny bit. She was surprised at my view, but I did explain it. (I did also tell her that I'd spent a lot of time in Africa and some time in India, but she didn't seem to want to hear about my own experiences at all.)

    Our hike was on the same day when it was announced that Brazil's president Bolsonaro (whom I do not support at all, btw) had been diagnosed with Covid. "I hope she dies", she said.

    She was a strenuous Biden supporter and her hatred of Trump (for reasons I never found convincing, all mainstream media claims about his personality) was extreme.

    I was very much looking forward to another hike (and to continue our interesting wide-ranging conversation), but soon after that one day we spent together she stopped responding to my emails. I'm pretty sure she'd looked on Avalon, which I'd mentioned to her, and figured that we were all somehow enemies of humanity. It was a shame.

  14. The Following 15 Users Say Thank You to Bill Ryan For This Post:

    Alan (24th November 2020), Chris Gilbert (24th November 2020), Constance (24th November 2020), Dorjezigzag (24th November 2020), Ewan (24th November 2020), Franny (24th November 2020), Harmony (25th November 2020), holcaul (24th November 2020), Jill (24th November 2020), Ken (25th November 2020), kudzy (24th November 2020), Mike (24th November 2020), Star Mariner (24th November 2020), Strat (24th November 2020), Yoda (24th November 2020)

  15. Link to Post #528
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th February 2010
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    25,416
    Thanks
    105,717
    Thanked 322,575 times in 23,900 posts

    Default Re: Racism

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Bill, you should be doing some serious thinking about the impact of your words. You are becoming less and less impartial.
    Dear Autumn, I've done a lot of serious thinking about almost everything that's affecting society currently and a whole bunch else, including the impact of my words.

    Believe me, I say far, far less than I might if I wasn't regarded as a potentially influential voice. Those who disagree with my own personal views and those of many others — and there are some — have often been rather uncouth and extreme in their statements. Once or twice, you've fallen into that yourself, but to your credit you've always apologized later.

    I continually do my best to present my views with courtesy and without throwing any mud at any other members (or people). Read my post immediately above as an example of a well-crafted, balanced, fair and detailed reply to a question.

    Walk a mile in my shoes, or that of any active moderator. We even invited you to join us on the mods' team (because we always want to maintain a broad-spectrum balance: the mods' team is hardly an echo chamber!) — and you declined for personal reasons which we fully understand and respect. But we did invite you.

    Yes, I'm becoming less impartial. In fact, I'm not impartial at all. My views about many things are strong, clear and well-thought-out, and I'll explain (or defend) them in detail if I'm asked to.

    But I do muzzle what I say, and sit on my hands a very great deal. Not always but usually (as with this post here), I only speak out clearly when responding to something directly addressed to myself or which seems to require an answer. (As with my reply to Ernie's question above. I never started this particular discussion here.)

    I fully support and encourage open discussion on the forum, which is very very important. I never wanted Mark/Rahkyt to leave, and the other mods will confirm that. (Not one of us wanted him to retire.)

    No Avalon member will ever be unsubscribed or censored for their political views. Only for their behavior or demeanor. It's SJWs who often want to silence or punish voices who disagree. Always bear that in mind.

    Based on his posts (and of course, one's posts are all we have to judge anyone by: this is a very one-dimensional virtual world we inhabit, and we never really know any other member at all in their rich diversity of the human being they are) — I don't like Praxis's demeanor one bit, or the way he often expresses himself. But he's still here. So are others.

    He can post whatever he wants, and so can you and others with similar views, as long as certain lines of courtesy aren't crossed. That's definitive.

    For a lot more on this, see this long statement on my personal Q&A thread, which was in response to a question I never asked anyone to pose.
    In that post, which summarily covered a lot of issues, I included this, shared here as one extract from the whole statement.

    ~~~
    The mods do walk a tricky tightrope. We sincerely want to maintain Avalon as a rare oasis of true freedom of expression (the need for courtesy and civility notwithstanding), but some ideas and threads posted are surely nonsense — in my opinion. Nevertheless, the only topic that's "censored" here is Flat Earthism (for good reason!) — though no Flat Earth threads have been deleted, only closed. They're all still searchable and readable.

    So let's start with politics. (Sigh!) There are occasional accusations that Avalon has become a sanctuary of the "right" (or even the "far right"), but people who say that kind of thing just don't understand what "right" and "left" mean any more.

    Like the traditional red-blue colors of the US political parties (which have flipped: socialist-leaning parties always used to be red), the values of the parties have flipped as well.

    Many mainstream Democratic pundits are now highly authoritarian (pro big tech, pro censorship, pro control, anti-freedom in many ways), while many liberals and libertarians chose to vote for Trump in the current election because he's the most libertarian candidate available.

    I'll say this clearly: (as a repeat of what I posted here on 10 November)

    ~~~

    The "alt-right" label is very misunderstood, misused, and even abused.

    The forum members are almost uniformly libertarian or classic liberal — depending on the definitions.

    They're:
    • Anti censorship
    • Anti authoritarian
    • Pro free speech
    • Anti political correctness and identity politics (such as espoused by SJWs)
    • Anti war
    • Anti NWO
    • Anti vaccines and big pharma (largely)
    • Pro environment
    • Pro All Lives Matter
    • Anti racism and prejudice of any kind
    • Pro personal freedom in almost every way.
    The questions then are ONLY about how this translates into real-life politics. But it may be helpful to realize how fully the membership here is in fundamental agreement about a great many very important things.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 24th November 2020 at 13:11.

  16. The Following 20 Users Say Thank You to Bill Ryan For This Post:

    Alan (24th November 2020), atman (24th November 2020), AutumnW (24th November 2020), ClearWater (27th November 2020), Constance (24th November 2020), Ewan (24th November 2020), Franny (24th November 2020), happyuk (24th November 2020), Harmony (25th November 2020), HaveBlue (25th November 2020), Jill (24th November 2020), Karen (Geophyz) (24th November 2020), Ken (25th November 2020), kudzy (24th November 2020), Mike (24th November 2020), Star Mariner (24th November 2020), Strat (24th November 2020), Tigger (24th November 2020), Tintin (24th November 2020), Yoda (24th November 2020)

  17. Link to Post #529
    Avalon Member
    Join Date
    21st July 2010
    Age
    34
    Posts
    711
    Thanks
    326
    Thanked 3,289 times in 613 posts

    Default Re: Racism

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    I'm pretty sure she'd looked on Avalon, which I'd mentioned to her, and figured that we were all somehow enemies of humanity. It was a shame.
    I think this is the part that maybe you should ruminate on.

    I think the question that Ernie asked recently and this part go together.

    Why do you think this place pushes people away?

    Have you seen Dennis Leahy post much recently?

    Ever notice that many people that pushed back on racism on this site or against Qult that they end up leaving?

    It is almost like engaging the Qult and crypto racist pushes people away from this site because those people fail to engage arguments or people do not want to associate with those kind of people.

    My Wife experiences constant racism in the united states. CONSTANT. It is not ignorant people with nooses burning crosses on our lawn, it is talking to her like she is 9 at hospital. It is how she is treated when buying groceries.

    It is small, subtly things that many do not even realize is racist when they are doing it. Many times they flow off her but these things add up little by little. This is what systemic racism is. It is not just laws that are overtly racist like the electoral college and black people being 3/5s of a person, it is also the attitudes and actions of daily people who embody Whiteness, which again does NOT exist and is vestige or racist Monarchical systems and later racist Republican(Republican France, which still held racist policies for much of the republic,) and still later the First Empire which tried to re enslave Haiti.

    My wife gets treated different if I am with her. They suddenly are nicer and dont want to search her bag.

    These things exists for her and for many other people. Yet there are people on this very forum saying systemic racism doesnt exist while filling in the WHITE circle on any form they encounter(without realizing that the category itself is racist; just ask the Irish).

    If Mark was saying that racism only exists when their is prejudice plus power then he was wrong in my opinion. That is a BS talking point and normalizes hatred. Prejudice is prejudice regardless of if you have power or not; having power just makes it worse and often leads to a systemic prejudice.

    If Mark could not admit this, then he is at fault from my point of view.

    I realize that I have worn your patience thin Bill. I apologize for my demeanor but I have to push back on ideas I see on your site. This isnt just a game or a discussion for me and my family. This is my life and we have to live it.

    How long could you live feeling like you are constantly under attack or just noticed? When many walk down the street on this forum, they probably have the luxury of blending in and not being noticed.

    Again, I apologize Bill for the aggressive stance I often take on your site. I used to feel like I was on a site, back in 2010-2014 ish, that I was part of the community of like minded people investigating the unknown and exotic. This was a great place to explore topics that most people would scoff at you for evening brining up. You could tell your extraordinary experiences and feel welcomed.

    Something changed in about 2015. I wonder what it was. . .

    I will stop posting now and simply lurk.

  18. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Praxis For This Post:

    AutumnW (24th November 2020), Bill Ryan (24th November 2020), Chris Gilbert (24th November 2020), Franny (24th November 2020), Harmony (25th November 2020), Ken (25th November 2020), Oxygen (25th November 2020), Star Mariner (24th November 2020), Wind (24th November 2020)

  19. Link to Post #530
    Avalon Member Star Mariner's Avatar
    Join Date
    15th November 2011
    Language
    English
    Posts
    2,489
    Thanks
    14,564
    Thanked 19,032 times in 2,410 posts

    Default Re: Racism

    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    My wife gets treated different if I am with her. They suddenly are nicer and dont want to search her bag.
    I find that very very sad. I truly get weary of this sad, cruel planet I really do. My heart goes out to you and your wife.

    But how does one analyse this? In my area, in the mid-2000s, we experienced a flood of east-European immigration. These newcomers were 'looked upon' let's say, the exact same way as your wife – yet all were as white as a sheet of paper.

    It's a response triggered chiefly by the primordial human instinct that fears or seeks to keep at arm's length: unknown/outside/other. However which way you cut it, when you really break it down, there is a psychological component to racism or 'otherism', and it's purely tribal at it's root.

    It's a throwback in other words, and it still exists in the human mind. But it's not of the human soul. Humanity has the spiritual tools to evolve beyond it, but unless it turns to the spirit these rigid social constructs will continue to dominate the human psyche.

    Because if only these people could see, touch, or communicate with your wife's energy, on a telepathic level, all these physical 'illusions' would simply evaporate. Shooting the breeze perhaps...but if that were the case there would be no racism or 'otherism' anymore. AT ALL. If only we lived on THAT planet!

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Black lives matter. They really do and when you say "all lives matter" it negates the point the expression is trying to make.
    The phrase 'All Lives Matter' does not neutralize Black Lives Matter. It encompasses it. It attempts to call to awareness the futility of categories, and thus identity politics. It automatically brings black lives under the umbrella of ALL lives, because for a very long time black people have been deliberately marginalized – by identity politics – placing them into a [victimhood] category of their own.

    If 'All Lives Matter' is offensive, then try to consider it 'all lives matter' (lower case – because case matters) as a proclamation that every life matters.

    Only with complete UNITY will humanity be able to finally overcome the social challenges it faces.
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
    ~ Jimi Hendrix

  20. The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to Star Mariner For This Post:

    atman (24th November 2020), AutumnW (24th November 2020), Bill Ryan (24th November 2020), Chris Gilbert (24th November 2020), ClearWater (27th November 2020), Constance (24th November 2020), Ewan (24th November 2020), Franny (24th November 2020), Harmony (25th November 2020), Jill (24th November 2020), Ken (25th November 2020), Mike (24th November 2020), Wind (24th November 2020)

  21. Link to Post #531
    Avalon Member Maia Gabrial's Avatar
    Join Date
    24th April 2011
    Location
    On the planet Sophia
    Age
    68
    Posts
    4,559
    Thanks
    15,713
    Thanked 16,571 times in 3,814 posts

    Default Re: Racism

    To me, it looks like these days, the ones accusing everyone of racism are the racists. If things don't go their way, they scream racism.

  22. The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to Maia Gabrial For This Post:

    AutumnW (24th November 2020), Bill Ryan (24th November 2020), ClearWater (27th November 2020), Constance (24th November 2020), Dorjezigzag (24th November 2020), Ewan (24th November 2020), Franny (24th November 2020), Harmony (25th November 2020), HaveBlue (25th November 2020), Jill (24th November 2020), Ken (25th November 2020), Mike (24th November 2020), Star Mariner (25th November 2020)

  23. Link to Post #532
    United States Moderator Chris Gilbert's Avatar
    Join Date
    31st July 2012
    Age
    39
    Posts
    401
    Thanks
    2,515
    Thanked 2,385 times in 387 posts

    Default Re: Racism

    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    I'm pretty sure she'd looked on Avalon, which I'd mentioned to her, and figured that we were all somehow enemies of humanity. It was a shame.

    My Wife experiences constant racism in the united states. CONSTANT. It is not ignorant people with nooses burning crosses on our lawn, it is talking to her like she is 9 at hospital. It is how she is treated when buying groceries.

    It is small, subtly things that many do not even realize is racist when they are doing it. Many times they flow off her but these things add up little by little. This is what systemic racism is. It is not just laws that are overtly racist like the electoral college and black people being 3/5s of a person, it is also the attitudes and actions of daily people who embody Whiteness, which again does NOT exist and is vestige or racist Monarchical systems and later racist Republican(Republican France, which still held racist policies for much of the republic,) and still later the First Empire which tried to re enslave Haiti.
    I agree with you that these things do happen, and are very saddening.

    Where I disagree however, is how terms like "racism" "systemic racism" or "whiteness" get bandied about among SJW/left leaning folk. When it comes to the term racism for instance, it usually includes either an overt or subtle implication of active hatred against "the other". While some might be hateful, many are simply prejudiced or ignorant to some degree. And as far as prejudice goes, it's a natural human tendency to have a level of unconscious bias to those who are similar vs. different, as studies of infants have revealed. While those who have immigrated to the Anglosphere or Europe do undoubtedly encounter unfair bias or prejudice, I would argue that Anglos/Europeans who expat to Asia or South America encounter plenty of bias as well (it's very hard for Westerners to integrate into Japan for instance).

    Do some of us on here have a level of bias, either conscious or unconscious? We certainly do, like all humans, and I agree we should strive to be conscious of moments where our bias can influence us. In terms of outright racial hatred however, I have not observed that currently on Avalon over the last year, and in the past instance where I did, those members have since been banned.

    Of course, it is also a question of what kind of bias? If it is bias towards appearance and such, that is certainly something that should be avoided. In terms of cultural bias, when push to comes to shove, despite its flaws, I certainly do not see 3rd Epoch shame/revenge based cultural mores as being on the same level of 4th Epoch Western Enlightenment/rule by law or Eastern Buddhist values. That's part of why I find SJW/cancel thinking so alarming, as it seems to be dialing back the clock as it were. On that note, I do not consider my "bias" on that particular subject to be a bad thing.

    In terms of systemic racism, we could argue to that there are disadvantages that occur based on group and geographical area. Even just here in Michigan, I know I had more advantages (better schools and wealth) growing up in Washtenaw County, versus those who grew up in Wayne County (the Detroit area). While racism could have been involved somewhere down the line however, much of it now is due to domino effects of inter-generational poverty or dysfunctional cultural values. While I certainly want to see such problems solved, I don't see it going away till the 5th Epoch when free energy comes into public use. The political measures taken to solve such things now, when they aren't simply ineffective, are less about helping the target groups and more about political footballs and power plays.

    I could elaborate further, but in short, I agree with you that we can be biased, but that doesn't mean we need to use the establishment/MSM terminology for such. Per your other comments about Trump/Q, I agree in part, I see that as a dead end dragging us down just like Simon Parks, Corey Goode and other narcissist conmen. It's a particular problem in the alternative community, and one I may speak more about in another thread in the future.
    Last edited by Chris Gilbert; 24th November 2020 at 16:35.

  24. The Following 15 Users Say Thank You to Chris Gilbert For This Post:

    atman (24th November 2020), AutumnW (24th November 2020), Bill Ryan (24th November 2020), ClearWater (27th November 2020), Constance (24th November 2020), Ewan (24th November 2020), Franny (24th November 2020), Harmony (25th November 2020), Jill (24th November 2020), Ken (25th November 2020), Mike (24th November 2020), Star Mariner (25th November 2020), Sue (Ayt) (24th November 2020), TargeT (24th November 2020), Wind (24th November 2020)

  25. Link to Post #533
    Zimbabwe Avalon Member safara's Avatar
    Join Date
    27th October 2020
    Language
    English
    Age
    48
    Posts
    53
    Thanks
    83
    Thanked 293 times in 52 posts

    Default Re: Racism

    Was born in Rhodesia, lived and holidayed in South Africa during apartheid, schooled in both Rhodesia, and later Zimbabwe for secondary education. Family have now all left Zimbabwe during the issues of the first decase of the 21st century. Now live in a more and more separatist and marginalist UK.

    Have seen, experienced and been affected greatly by racism over the years.

    Regarding the All Lives Matter movement.

    Only ONCE Black Lives Matter, White Lives Matter, Yellow, Brown and Green Rainbow Lives Matter - can you THEN say ALL Lives Matter.

    Until then the human race is still in need of empathetic education and the statement "All Lives Matter" has no authority.

  26. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to safara For This Post:

    AutumnW (24th November 2020), Bill Ryan (24th November 2020), Franny (24th November 2020), Harmony (25th November 2020), Ken (25th November 2020)

  27. Link to Post #534
    Canada Avalon Member atman's Avatar
    Join Date
    20th January 2011
    Location
    Québec, Canada
    Language
    French
    Age
    65
    Posts
    136
    Thanks
    1,221
    Thanked 1,014 times in 130 posts

    Default Re: Racism

    When radical anti-hate and anti-racism activism becomes a conduit for extreme forms of hate and racism...

    __________________________________________

    Concern After European ‘Anti-Hate’ Group Boss Discussed ‘Necessity’ of Killing White People

    by CHRIS TOMLINSON - 24 Nov 2020


    Mamadou Ba, head of the Portuguese “anti-hate” group SOS Racismo, spoke of the need to “kill the white man” at a recent online conference on “hate speech”.

    Ba, a Portuguese citizen originally from Senegal, attended the conference on Saturday which was on the topic of “Racism and the Advancement of Hate Speech in the World”.

    During the conference, which was attended by Portuguese speakers from Portugal and Brazil, Ba stated “it is necessary to kill the white man, murderer, colonial, and racist” to “prevent the social death of the black political subject”.

    According to a report from Portuguese daily newspaper Correio da Manhã, the statement was a quote from Algerian far-left anti-colonialist political philosopher Frantz Fanon, who openly advocated for violence during the French rule of Algeria in his seminal work The Wretched of the Earth.

    Exclusive Video: BLM Activist Says White Men Are ‘The Common Enemy’, ‘We Need to Get Rid of Them’ https://t.co/jdp2Cz3e85

    — Breitbart London (@BreitbartLondon) July 21, 2020

    The newspaper states that it is not clear whether Ba was quoting the far-left philosopher, but said it was presumed he did so in agreement.

    “Refutation is part of the proposition, but what matters most to combat hate speech is to propose a new narrative,” Ba said during the online meeting.

    Earlier this year, the European Network Against Racism (ENAR), which is partnered with Hungarian-American billionaire George Soros’s Open Society Foundations, called for support of SOS Rascimo, which it described as one of the “founding members” of the ENAR.

    According to the ENAR, Ba and other activists had been sent threats online, and Ba himself had received a letter with a bullet casing inside it.

    Plurality of French Say 'Anti-White' Racism is a Problem in France https://t.co/yhRBTsZWAv

    — Breitbart London (@BreitbartLondon) June 21, 2020

    The incident is not the first controversial moment for a so-called “anti-hate” group in Europe, many of which have direct ties to both Open Society Foundations and George Soros, such as Hope Not Hate in the UK which was identified in a Swedish military report on far-left extremism in 2018.

    In Germany, the anti-hate Amadeau Antonio Stiftung, headed by former Stasi informant Anetta Kahane, sparked controversy after releasing a guide for schools to spot “Nazi parents”.

  28. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to atman For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (24th November 2020), Chris Gilbert (24th November 2020), Constance (24th November 2020), Dorjezigzag (24th November 2020), Ewan (24th November 2020), Franny (24th November 2020), Harmony (25th November 2020), Mike (25th November 2020), Star Mariner (25th November 2020), TargeT (24th November 2020)

  29. Link to Post #535
    Canada Avalon Member Ernie Nemeth's Avatar
    Join Date
    25th January 2011
    Location
    Toronto
    Age
    62
    Posts
    4,356
    Thanks
    18,285
    Thanked 25,834 times in 4,097 posts

    Default Re: Racism

    The world is changing. A rising tide of dissatisfaction is being injected into the narrative. This is not the liberal movement of the 1960s, whose main theme had been 'love'. Sixty years later the new 'liberal' movement delivers us a 'hate' message that most of us from the 60s are excluded from. Such a message cannot rally a groundswell of grassroots support. Such a message can only lead to division.

    Inclusion is the only way forward. That does not begin with one side being stamped as racist for having an opinion.

    If you say to me that we need a new social contract, I would agree. If the next step is me apologizing for being a racist - you've lost me.

    And if the solution is burning and looting and cheating and intimidating and doxing and lying and shadow banning and slanting news and slandering opponents and defunding police and stealing elections then I know that movement is evil and must be resisted.

    We need a new social contract. We need to address systemic corruption in government, in banking, in media, in big business. This is where the true racists are. These are the ones driving the narrative of hate - fueled by billions of dollars that they have fleeced of the flock in those same sixty years.

    We may have failed younger generations back in the sixties when most of us sold out to the very forces we eschewed. But our movement was real. Take that message and turn it to the cause. Include us in the proud multi-cultural heritage we all represent. Do not drag us through the mud so that bruised and dirty we can proclaim our common victimhood. The authorities have no empathy, they will not capitulate out of sympathy.

    Only together, as one voice with many healthy opinions, in solidarity, will we succeed. The place we are heading is a miserable place full of fear, suspicion, animosity, and death.

    Make Love not War!
    Last edited by Ernie Nemeth; 24th November 2020 at 20:53.
    Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water...Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. Bruce Lee

  30. The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to Ernie Nemeth For This Post:

    atman (25th November 2020), Bill Ryan (24th November 2020), Chris Gilbert (24th November 2020), Constance (24th November 2020), Ewan (24th November 2020), Franny (24th November 2020), Harmony (25th November 2020), Ken (25th November 2020), Mike (25th November 2020), safara (24th November 2020), Star Mariner (25th November 2020), Sue (Ayt) (24th November 2020), Wind (26th November 2020)

  31. Link to Post #536
    Canada Avalon Member
    Join Date
    4th November 2012
    Posts
    2,943
    Thanks
    5,359
    Thanked 12,512 times in 2,598 posts

    Default Re: Racism

    I have started a few threads about the prison industrial complex, the plea bargaining system that puts the poor, largely black individual at a terrible disadvantage, the slave labor. Blacks are given lengthier sentences for the same crimes whites commit. Mike was one of the very few, if the only one who posted on one of those threads. Thank you, Mike.

    If all lives matter than it behooves ALL of us to understand what is happening to the most vulnerable members of society. Because we don't see it, doesn't mean it isn't happening. It means we are white and middle class and it doesn't usually come up in our own lives.

    Does anybody here even know about the circumstances surrounding the Ferguson, Missouri riots a few years back? I looked into it. I didn't believe "mainstream media" that it was just about a singular act of violence. What I found was pretty awful.

    You, who claim all lives matter but won't put aside a half an hour, an hour, much less a few days of study to get a feel for people who are downtrodden.

    This place is supposed to be about love and light, where science meets the spirit. I am not feeling it. I feel a whole lot of division, lack of basic understanding, lack of compassion.

    I've done the damn work. I seek out quality unconflicted information from numerous sources. This isn't heroic. I am not bragging. It's about reaching for the lowest bar on a ladder that will hopefully lead to better understanding. I am not moved by people who enjoy the drama of kicking people when they are down, even if it comes from a position of ignorance.

    Why have so many people left this forum. Let me put it as succinctly as I can.

    WE CAN'T BREATHE!
    Last edited by AutumnW; 25th November 2020 at 02:18.

  32. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to AutumnW For This Post:

    Ernie Nemeth (25th November 2020), Ken (25th November 2020), Mike (25th November 2020), Oxygen (25th November 2020)

  33. Link to Post #537
    Avalon Member
    Join Date
    25th May 2011
    Location
    Western Australia
    Posts
    2,071
    Thanks
    4,546
    Thanked 13,364 times in 2,031 posts

    Default Re: Racism

    Quote AutumnW: I have started a few threads about the prison industrial complex, the plea bargaining system that puts the poor, largely black individual at a terrible disadvantage, the slave labor. Blacks are given lengthier sentences for the same crimes whites commit. Mike was one of the very few, if the only one who posted on one of those threads. Thank you, Mike.

    If all lives matter than it behooves ALL of us to understand what is happening to the most vulnerable members of society. Because we don't see it, doesn't mean it isn't happening. It means we are white and middle class and it doesn't usually come up in our own lives.

    Does anybody here even know about the circumstances surrounding the Ferguson, Missouri riots a few years back? I looked into it. I didn't believe "mainstream media" that it was just about a singular act of violence. What I found was pretty awful.

    You, who claim all lives matter but won't put aside a half an hour, an hour, much less a few days of study to get a feel for people who are downtrodden.

    This place is supposed to be about love and light, where science meets the spirit. I am not feeling it. I feel a whole lot of division, lack of basic understanding, lack of compassion.

    I've done the damn work. I seek out quality unconflicted information from numerous sources. This isn't heroic. I am not bragging. It's about reaching for the lowest bar on a ladder that will hopefully lead to better understanding. I am not moved by people who enjoy the drama of kicking people when they are down, even if it comes from a position of ignorance.

    Why have so many people left this forum. Let me put it as succinctly as I can.

    WE CAN'T BREATHE!
    Wow Autumn is playing the same record over and over the best you've got to contribute and expand on this thorny subject.  Sanctimonious hubris claiming self appointed  moral privilege based on ignorant assumptions and assertions about how much data members search for, study, absorb and process.

    You are saying that if we had studied what you have we would undoubtedly arrive at the same conclusion as you, therefore because some members don't concede to your position our different analysis is dismissed by you by default of being uninformed.  Think you would be overwhelmingly shocked at how many people have done the damn work

    It appears you are not interested in walking another mile, or two, in research that encapsulates and AGREES with what you continually expound on which then takes this sensitive topic into deeper and broader analysis.  Analysis and evidence which clearly defines that the motive and good will behind the slogan has sinister origins delivered as a trojan horse hijacking all the good we hoped and believed in our hearts it would achieve at the outset.

    All lives matter is one form of resistence to the BLM trojan horse of deception and manipulation. It is calling on all races to unite in supporting awareness and subsequent change of specifics; like the industrial prison complex which is just one of the problems.

    Racism today is not without problems but it is a hell of a long way forward than it was yesteryear.  The BLM leaders are trying to take their movement back to yesteryear to ensure we return to the ugliness of segregation.  Today the big picture Race Card is financially motivated because it generates great wealth for participants on both sides of the moral story and citizens are the puppets fuelling the cash cows on both sides.

    Then there are the self serving participants seeking to immortalize themselves in history with their radical ideological publications, and of course, the never ending political tool.

    All lives matter annihilates all of these deceptions instantly if we all raise the stakes, unite with behavioural intelligence, and refuse to engage in their chicanery.  Stop and think for a moment how powerful expounding globally on an all lives matter movement would be with all races holding hands in the streets.

    Imagine the impetus for this then flooding into everyday lives when one person witnesses injustice to another wherever they find themselves. Imagine the phenomenal changes that could happen if all the celebrities, big tech giants, corporations, etc promoted and changed their rules for all lives matter.

    Cancelling one race to highlight another is retarded and dangerous. All lives matter is a powerful WIN WIN.  You cannot claim it and then act in racist defiance and those orchestrating and promoting race segregation  damn well know it.

    And other members have written succinctly about human nature and stigmas that can be broken down and erradicated very quickly with basic information and awareness regarding knee-jerk social stereotyping fears.

    P.S.

    Quote Why have so many people left this forum. Let me put it as succinctly as I can.

    WE CAN'T BREATHE!
    Ummm isn't that somewhat hypocritical to what you are arguing i.e. exploiting the calling card of BLM for your own purpose.
    Last edited by Gemma13; 25th November 2020 at 05:31.

  34. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Gemma13 For This Post:

    Alan (25th November 2020), atman (25th November 2020), ClearWater (27th November 2020), Constance (25th November 2020), Ernie Nemeth (25th November 2020), Mike (25th November 2020), Star Mariner (25th November 2020)

  35. Link to Post #538
    Australia Avalon Member Constance's Avatar
    Join Date
    26th January 2011
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Language
    English
    Age
    56
    Posts
    2,892
    Thanks
    18,012
    Thanked 19,812 times in 2,764 posts

    Default Re: Racism

    Quote Posted by Gemma13 (here)
    All lives matter annihilates all of these deceptions instantly if we all raise the stakes, unite with behavioural intelligence, and refuse to engage in their chicanery.  Stop and think for a moment how powerful expounding globally on an all lives matter movement would be with all races holding hands in the streets.

    Imagine the impetus for this then flooding into everyday lives when one person witnesses injustice to another wherever they find themselves. Imagine the phenomenal changes that could happen if all the celebrities, big tech giants, corporations, etc promoted and changed their rules for all lives matter.

    Cancelling one race to highlight another is retarded and dangerous. All lives matter is a powerful WIN WIN.  You cannot claim it and then act in racist defiance and those orchestrating and promoting race segregation  damn well know it.
    Well said Gemma

  36. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Constance For This Post:

    Alan (25th November 2020), Mike (25th November 2020)

  37. Link to Post #539
    United States Avalon Member TargeT's Avatar
    Join Date
    30th June 2011
    Location
    The Seat of Corruption
    Age
    41
    Posts
    8,192
    Thanks
    23,756
    Thanked 45,978 times in 7,709 posts

    Default Re: Racism

    Quote Posted by Constance (here)
    Quote Posted by Gemma13 (here)
    All lives matter annihilates all of these deceptions instantly if we all raise the stakes, unite with behavioural intelligence, and refuse to engage in their chicanery.  Stop and think for a moment how powerful expounding globally on an all lives matter movement would be with all races holding hands in the streets.

    Imagine the impetus for this then flooding into everyday lives when one person witnesses injustice to another wherever they find themselves. Imagine the phenomenal changes that could happen if all the celebrities, big tech giants, corporations, etc promoted and changed their rules for all lives matter.

    Cancelling one race to highlight another is retarded and dangerous. All lives matter is a powerful WIN WIN.  You cannot claim it and then act in racist defiance and those orchestrating and promoting race segregation  damn well know it.
    Well said Gemma
    Don't say that in the US..... you'll get attacked.

    (if it's not clear, that's how far it's gone in large population cities here, plenty of video to back that up)

    sans that, I do agree with your take... but anything that doesn't toe the "anti"FACIST line here seems to be shut down violently or via cancel culture.

    History is going to love analysis of these last few decades.... well assuming history isn't re-written by "the victors"
    Last edited by TargeT; 25th November 2020 at 06:00.
    Hard times create strong men, Strong men create good times, Good times create weak men, Weak men create hard times.
    Where are you?

  38. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to TargeT For This Post:

    Alan (25th November 2020), atman (25th November 2020), Constance (25th November 2020), Ernie Nemeth (25th November 2020), Mike (25th November 2020)

  39. Link to Post #540
    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    24th January 2011
    Location
    journeying to the end of the night
    Age
    43
    Posts
    4,674
    Thanks
    29,101
    Thanked 38,606 times in 4,564 posts

    Default Re: Racism

    John McWhorter is really someone we all should be listening to. Calm, grounded, highly intelligent. A black college professor talking frankly and simply about the black experience here in the U.S. Ignore the video title - I know it's triggering. He does challenge the current narrative of racism as all encompassing evil, but he is also even and fair to both sides. It's only 6 minutes long. Have a listen:


  40. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Mike For This Post:

    atman (25th November 2020), Constance (25th November 2020), Ernie Nemeth (25th November 2020), Ewan (25th November 2020), TargeT (25th November 2020)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 27 of 31 FirstFirst 1 17 27 31 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts