Did Maria Orsic really exist?

[BMJ]

Posted by Cardillac (here)
addendum to my my last posting (forgot to include this)-

according to Nazi historian (interviewed by Kerry Cassidy) Harry Cooper Angela Merkel just bought property next to the Bush property in Paraguay- look at Nazi history then go figure-

Larry

To expand on that your speaking of the nazi exodus from Argentina to Paraguay after the 1955 overthrow of President Juan Perón of Argentina, and the subsequent large presence of nazi's and second / third generation germans in Paraguay to this day.

Hence the reason for Merkel and Bush buying property in Paraguay because of the nazi/german support available in Paraguay.

[Zak247]

[Valerie Villars]

Zac, I give up. Who is in the top photo?

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Valerie Villars (here)
Zac, I give up. Who is in the top photo?

It's Andrija Puharich, in 1977. (Nothing to do with Maria Orsic!)

• http://puharich.nl/photo.html

[Zak247]

All I'll say is this
Often time’s pictures speak louder than words

Bill is right about one thing, that is Andrija Puharich's photo album, and the 33rd picture inside it...The question is who are the two woman
Maybe his girlfriend, wife, I don't know.

If Maria Orsic was anything they said she was, then she is extraordinary and had extraordinary attributes

[KiwiElf]

Posted by Builder (here)

But talking about airplanes: 1947, only months after Operation Highjump, Kenneth Arnold described UFOs looking similar to the flying wings built by the Horten brothers for the Nazis.

Yes; the Hortens were just airplanes - flying wings with conventional engines (piston, jet or rockets), incapable of reaching the speeds measured by Kenneth Arnold's "saucers" - 1,200 miles an hour (1,932 km/hr), even a modern B2 is not capable of these speeds, OR range to fly pole-to-pole, Europe to the US or either Pole to the US. That's just two simple facts to put Joseph Farrell's conclusions in "Roswell & the Reich" in the bin IMO. (Arnold's description of the UFO's he saw, weren't saucers - nor did they really look like the one above at all, (only to the untrained eye) - that's a bit like saying the British Vulcan Bomber "looks like or is similar to" the Concorde, or a Cessna 172 "looks like or is similar to" a Piper Cub!

- a B2 maybe,... even that's a bit of a stretch! (Joseph Farrell take note! And before anyone says it, The Hortens look NOTHING like or similar to whatever-it-was that crashed at Roswell, either... see comparisons below )

These are the (known) Horten designs, some of which never made it off the drawing boards. It should be fairly self-evident which of these designs did look vaguely similar to those described by Arnold (and which one is pictured above):

NOTE: Lack of air intakes or exhaust outlets necessary for conventional engines on either Arnold's or Roswell UFOs


The Horten Designs


Horten & a B2 Bomber


"UFO" described by Kenneth Arnold


Roswell "UFO" - Frank Kauffman sketch

[KiwiElf]

Posted by Builder (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
Admiral Richard E. Byrd warned today that the United States should adopt measures of protection against the possibility of an invasion of the country by hostile planes coming from the polar regions.

Note that contrary to what is reported in so many other places he didn't say that they were attacked and he also didn't say that there were actual flying craft who can fly from pole to pole.

Ummmm... do you have some evidence to support that, please Builder?

EDIT: That is, over and above Bill's post below & earlier?

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by KiwiElf (here)

Posted by Builder (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
Admiral Richard E. Byrd warned today that the United States should adopt measures of protection against the possibility of an invasion of the country by hostile planes coming from the polar regions.

Note that contrary to what is reported in so many other places he didn't say that they were attacked and he also didn't say that there were actual flying craft who can fly from pole to pole.

Ummmm... do you have some evidence to support that, please Builder?

Here's the exact (and only) evidence for anything at all: (copied from my earlier post #28)

~~~

Copied from http://tst.greyfalcon.us/ufo.htm, here's the source text: (my red emphasis)

This is the ONLY source for all the guessing and theorizing (and fantasizing!) in the alt media about Admiral Byrd since then.

Spanish text from "El Mercurio":

El Almirante Richard E. Byrd advirtió hoy que es imperativo para los Estados Unidos de America el iniciar medidas de defensa contra la posibilidad de una invasión del país de parte de aviones hostiles provenientes de las regiones polares. El Almirante explicó que no quiere asustar a nadie, pero es una verdad amarga que, en el caso de una nueva guerra, los Estados Unidos podrían ser atacados por aviones que pueden volar sobre uno o los dos polos. Esta declaración se hizo como parte de una recapitulación de su propia experiencia polar, en una entrevista exclusiva con International News Service. Refiriéndose a la expedición de reciente finalización, Byrd dijo que el resultado más importante de sus observaciones y descubrimientos es el efecto potencial que tienen con respecto a la seguridad de los Estados Unidos. La velocidad fantástica a la que el mundo se está reduciendo – recordó el Almirante– es una de las lecciones más importantes aprendidas en su reciente exploración antártica. Debo advertir a mis compatriotas que terminó aquel tiempo en el que podíamos refugiarnos en nuestro aislamiento y confiar en la certeza de que las distancias, los océanos, y los polos eran una garantía de seguridad.

English Translation:

Admiral Richard E. Byrd warned today that the United States should adopt measures of protection against the possibility of an invasion of the country by hostile planes coming from the polar regions. The Admiral explained that he was not trying to scare anyone, but the cruel reality is that in case of a new war, the United States could be attacked by planes flying over one or both poles. This statement was made as part of a recapitulation of his own polar experience, in an exclusive interview with International News Service. Talking about the recently completed expedition, Byrd said that the most important result of his observations and discoveries is the potential effect that they have in relation to the security of the United States. The fantastic speed with which the world is shrinking – recalled the Admiral – is one of the most important lessons learned during his recent Antarctic exploration. I have to warn my compatriots that the time has ended when we were able to take refuge in our isolation and rely on the certainty that the distances, the oceans, and the poles were a guarantee of safety.

[Zak247]

Some background:

I am sure people here are aware of the history of the German mystical movement before WWII having had—through the Vril society—made contact with an advanced alien civilization from the Aldebaran planetary system. This is likely a tale filled with exaggerated mystery and legendary mythical allure like much of the reportage on the German mystical renaissance in the 20's and 30’s was... Though an interesting an entertaining spiel: A lovely nymph-like Maria Orsic and some other mystery feminine Goddess figure named Sigrun were mediums calling down energy from this star system using their long beautiful wavy hair as antennas—a dandy yarn for a Dan Brown novel if I ever heard one.

These two are supposed to have had been the source of the German WWII mastery in spaceship building generated by this mediumistic knowledge.

The medium Maria Orsic was the leader of the ‘Vrilerinnen’, the beautiful young ladies of the Vril Gesellschaft.

Characteristically they all wore their hair in long horse-tails, contrary to the popular short bobbed fashion of their day, claiming their long hair acted as cosmic antennas that helped facilitate their contact with extraterrestrials beings from beyond.

According to the legend of the German Vril society, a fateful meeting was held in 1919 at an old hunting lodge near Berchtesgaden, where Maria Orsic presented to a small group assembled from the Thule, Vril and Black Sun Societies, telepathic messages she claimed to have received from an extraterrestrial civilization existing in the distant Aldebaran solar system, sixty-eight light years away, in the Constellation of Taurus.

One set of Maria’s channeled transmissions was found to be in a secret German Templar script unknown to her. A second series of transmissions appeared to be written in an ancient eastern language, which Babylonian scholars associated with the Thule group, recognized as ancient Sumerian.

Maria Orsic along with Sigrun, another of the Vril Society’s female mediums, began the task of translating these transmissions and discovered they contained instructions for building a circular flight machine.

“The name Vril is the shortening of “VRI-IL” which means “Like God”. Officially Vril was “The All German Society for Metaphysics” which merged with the Thule Gesellschaft and the obscure”
http://discaircraft.greyfalcon.us/Th...il%20Discs.htm

“Aldebaran, a giant red star, is part of the Taurus Constellation and is known as the “Bull’s Eye” due to its position in the heavens. As the “Star of Illumination” it is also known as the “Way” of spiritual enlightenment which the mediums of Vril desperately sought.”

Confused by the strange language and mental images she was receiving through psychic channeling, Maria Orsic of Thule joined with the Vril Gesellschaft which brought in another psychic medium named Sigrun to help translate the alien language (which turned out to be ancient Sumerian) and decipher the strange mental images of a circular flight machine for making contact.

“In December 1943 Maria attended, together with Sigrun, a meeting held by Vril at the seaside resort of Kolberg. The main purpose of the meeting was to deal with the “Aldebaran project”. The Vril mediums had received precise information regarding the habitable planets around the sun Aldebaran and they were willing to plan a trip there. This project was discussed again the 22nd January 1944 in a meeting between Hitler, Himmler, Dr. W. Schumann (scientist and professor in the Technical University of Munich) and Kunkel of the Vril Gesellschaft. It was decided that a Vril 7 “Jäger” would be sent through a dimension channel independent of the speed of light to Aldebaran. According to N. Ratthofer (writer), a first test flight in the dimension channel took place in late 1944. The test flight almost ended in disaster because after the flight the Vril 7 looked “as if it had been flying for a hundred years”. Its outer skin looked aged and had suffered damages in several places.”

http://www.thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?t=61586

Maria Orsic disappeared in 1945. The 11th of March of 1945 an internal document of the Vril Gesellschaft was sent to all its members; a letter written by Maria Orsic. The letter ends: “niemand bleibt hier” (noone is staying here). This was the last announcement from Vril, and since then noone heard again from Maria or the rest of members. It is speculated they escaped to Aldebaran.

According to Peter Moon, much of the lore about this mysterious period comes from Jan Van Helsing and a group who produced a video called Secrets of the Third Reich.

Its all interesting, mysterious, and exotic but likely mythology of some sort. But you never know. Since we all know about the cover-ups of many truths by the elite mainstream, to keep the people dumb and uninteresting in things like this.


http://discaircraft.greyfalcon.us/Th...il%20Discs.htm
https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZoMR_Oj6Qrs
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ci...gobjects55.htm
https://youtube.com/watch?v=ndjYLv-hfQI

[KiwiElf]

Maria Orsic (Marija, as it's spelled in the above colorised image) is the most infamous of the "Vril women", with Sigrun probably coming in a close second.

What is known of the others, ie Traute, Gudrun & Heike?

[Zak247]

This is really an interesting myth, tale, story or whatever. Of course, it has major problems in terms of sources for the information.

To establish this as a historical fact, outside of allegory or mythology there needs to be documentation. I mean, she lived in the 20th century so it's not asking a lot for that documentation: Real names, dates, mothers father.

She is supposed to have had a daughter

To make a serious study of this interesting story one has to make serious research, maybe go to Germany; seek out the sources of this tale beyond the sensational and internet fables.

We do know there was a group of German disinformation agents going around at some point that may have been the source of some of this lore.

But bottom line, if its any truth to it; it can be found because this is not something ancient or even too long ago

[KiwiElf]

Posted by Zak247 (here)
This is really an interesting myth, tale, story or whatever. Of course, it has major problems in terms of sources for the information.

To establish this as a historical fact, outside of allegory or mythology there needs to be documentation. I mean, she lived in the 20th century so it's not asking a lot for that documentation: Real names, dates, mothers father.

She is supposed to have had a daughter

To make a serious study of this interesting story one has to make serious research, maybe go to Germany; seek out the sources of this tale beyond the sensational and internet fables.

We do know there was a group of German disinformation agents going around at some point that may have been the source of some of this lore.

But bottom line, if its any truth to it; it can be found because this is not something ancient or even too long ago

That's the real conundrum here; the "Deep State" & Secret Societies in every country, are reasonably efficient at hiding, erasing information & rewriting history. (Perhaps that's changing, now).

Their expertise in propaganda is matched by their ability to erase the investigators of the truth, too.

The parallels to Roswell are remarkable; the similar time period, most of the witnesses are now dead, and the only physical evidence in the public domain are newspaper articles (few), photographs and drawings on paper. But there is certainly some smoke to this fire.

I don't disregard Maria Orsic's, or any other so-called "medium"s' abilities, either. Tesla himself (and other notables) have referred to visions, dreams, meditations in helping, guiding or even providing the end results/designs/music etc.

Talk to any "creative person"*** and there is a "process" involved in getting to the end result - that "lightbulb" moment. ("creative person"*** is a bit of a misnomer, btw - everyone possesses the ability in varying degrees). However, very few are able to do it on the first attempt consistently & at a moment's notice.

Spiritually oriented/gifted people have often referred to tapping into the "ether" or "Akashic Record", "Universe", "God", some other "being/spirit/entity", "All-that-is" (or just plain "subconscious") for much of their knowledge & inspiration.

Remember the old saying that went something like this (and where did it come from?):

"Sleep on the problem. In the morning, you'll have the answer"

https://www.inc.com/benjamin-p-hardy...vity-and-.html

Relying on just remaining physical proof as to something or someone's "reality, existence or reliability" has its drawbacks, too. What remains is not necessarily "proof" that it didn't happen or exist.

[Zak247]

Posted by KiwiElf (here)

Posted by Zak247 (here)
This is really an interesting myth, tale, story or whatever. Of course, it has major problems in terms of sources for the information.

To establish this as a historical fact, outside of allegory or mythology there needs to be documentation. I mean, she lived in the 20th century so it's not asking a lot for that documentation: Real names, dates, mothers father.

She is supposed to have had a daughter

To make a serious study of this interesting story one has to make serious research, maybe go to Germany; seek out the sources of this tale beyond the sensational and internet fables.

We do know there was a group of German disinformation agents going around at some point that may have been the source of some of this lore.

But bottom line, if its any truth to it; it can be found because this is not something ancient or even too long ago

That's the real conundrum here; the "Deep State" & Secret Societies in every country, are reasonably efficient at hiding, erasing information & rewriting history. (Perhaps that's changing, now).

Their expertise in propaganda is matched by their ability to erase the investigators of the truth, too.

The parallels to Roswell are remarkable; the similar time period, most of the witnesses are now dead, and the only physical evidence in the public domain are newspaper articles (few), photographs and drawings on paper. But there is certainly some smoke to this fire.

I don't disregard Maria Orsic's, or any other so-called "medium"s' abilities, either. Tesla himself (and other notables) have referred to visions, dreams, meditations in helping, guiding or even providing the end results/designs/music etc.

Talk to any "creative person"*** and there is a "process" involved in getting to the end result - that "lightbulb" moment. ("creative person"*** is a bit of a misnomer, btw - everyone possesses the ability in varying degrees). However, very few are able to do it on the first attempt consistently & at a moment's notice.

Spiritually oriented/gifted people have often referred to tapping into the "ether" or "Akashic Record", "Universe", "God", some other "being/spirit/entity", "All-that-is" (or just plain "subconscious") for much of their knowledge & inspiration.

Remember the old saying that went something like this (and where did it come from?):

"Sleep on the problem. In the morning, you'll have the answer"

https://www.inc.com/benjamin-p-hardy...vity-and-.html

Relying on just remaining physical proof as to something or someone's "reality, existence or reliability" has its drawbacks, too. What remains is not necessarily "proof" that it didn't happen or exist.

You’re right on a lot of things.
You see, the real world doesn’t work like our pc, and superficial ideal world presented to us.
The world we see is a reality show. Not reality, but a reality SHOW. People parading around pretending.
Behind the scenes KKK members talk to black politicians, the CIA deals with so-called terrorists they claim to want to kill, the FBI deals closely with arch criminals. Clinton and Trump are friends. On and on, in reality, black merges with white everyday but they present to us an ideal fantasy world of division. Oh, that has its degree of reality, but what’s real is often something very fundamental and beyond the superficial.

When we read books and go to these internet sites we have to separate the wheat from the chaff and understand the wheat couldn’t exist without the chaff.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
The thread title says it.

Did Maria Orsic really exist? It's a genuine question. I've just e-mailed Joseph Farrell to ask his view, and I'll publish his response. I'd like to ask Peter Levenda, too.

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

I've just e-mailed Joseph Farrell to ask his view, and I'll publish his response.

Well, that was quick! Here's his reply, literally within minutes:

~~~

I've found NO evidence for it. The story is repeated in some postwar neo-nazi sources, but nothing by way of evidence. I've referred to the story (forget which book), but because of its intrinsic interest. I've not founded any hypotheses or conclusions from it.

I never heard back from Peter Levenda. But I've just found that in this video at 2:42:35, Jimmy Church asks Levenda a similar question: whether the Vril Society was real.

Levenda responds that it's a difficult question, and (like Farrell) he hasn't seen real documentation to prove it existed. But he's quick to add that the Thule Society definitely existed (and Farrell would certainly agree).

Levenda describes Vril as "more of an imaginary society than a real one". Church asks him whether it was imaginary from our viewpoint or theirs, and Levenda suggests "both".

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Wi-DP142sM4

[Lazarus]

Those Germans sure were busy boys
For conjecture there is something for everyone here.
Personally intrigued by the Peri Reis maps.

[Lazarus]

Most credible statement was by the Russian who said it was inconceivable that Germany had such advanced technology in 47

[Brigantia]

I don't think this has been posted here; whether or not someone did exist of that name, the photo is fake. A clearly 1960s face was photoshopped onto a 1940s photo and this highlights the photoshopping onto the original photo.

Edit to add - the original photo was also reversed.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=kvEhExAId4Q