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Thread: Is JFK Jr Still Alive?

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    Default Re: Is JFK Jr Still Alive?

    Quote Posted by HikerChick (here)

    The more I delve into this, the more I think that they’re all characters from Central Casting.
    This is my position. Leading politicians, actors and members of the aristocracy are one and the same, performers in a narrative which is largely scripted and in which their lives outside of their job are also a part of the story.

    Incidentally that photo of JFK JR at 14. Look at the gait...

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    Default Re: Is JFK Jr Still Alive?

    Quote Posted by Journeyman (here)
    Incidentally that photo of JFK JR at 14. Look at the gait...
    OMG!!! I never noticed that, well spotted!

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    Default Re: Is JFK Jr Still Alive?

    fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
    Last edited by Constance; 14th November 2021 at 19:33.

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    Default Re: Is JFK Jr Still Alive?

    Quote Posted by Constance (here)
    Just a quick anecdotal story regarding hair. When my son was a baby, he had curly hair. By the time he was three his hair was dead straight. At the age of twelve (onset of puberty), his hair became curly again and has stayed that way ever since.
    Thanks for that Constance - I have a story too. I would say though that in that photo, he looks much more adult than boy so I reckon he was way past puberty.

    My story is my dad - as a baby he had a mass of blond curls, think Little Lord Fauntleroy. When he was about 18 months his father took him to the barbers and had it all cut off - and got a lot of grief from my grandmother, as he hadn't discussed it with her before the trip to the barbers. After that, my dad's hair grew straight and dark.

    I haven't found anything though to indicate that hair can change naturally from straight to curly without artificial or hormonal reasons.

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    Default Re: Is JFK Jr Still Alive?

    I agree with you Hiker Chick that timelines can be seen but not in alignment with our timeline. The data from this person seems to be pretty high on the scale but with all psychics you never can be sure.
    When you realize where you come from, you naturally become tolerant, disinterested, amused, kindhearted as a grandparent, dignified as a king. -- I Ching

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    Default Re: Is JFK Jr Still Alive?

    Seeing as The Return of the King is in full fever pitch, I decided to look at Vincent Fusca. (I'm having a job to format this, so it might look like a dog's dinner, here goes...)

    He is not JFK Jr. He has long, slender hands and long arms.

    JFK Jr had short arms with short, rather stubby hands with a square palm.

    I also find it interesting that a lot of the age-progressed photos show him with a beard, which makes quite an alteration to the face. Hmm, the Saddam Hussein trial disguise.
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    Default Re: Is JFK Jr Still Alive?

    I wasn't going to post here anymore as the more I research, the weirder it gets. However, a series of parallels has occurred to me that I decided to share, and although it's a bit off topic from the thread title, I would be interested to hear your thoughts.

    Has it struck anyone about the parallels between Carolyn Bessette and Diana, Princess of Wales?

    - Both were 8 years old when their parents divorced
    - Both had older sisters
    - Both married their respective country's Most Eligible Bachelor (yes, believe it or not, they really did say that about Charlie in the 1970s!)
    - Both had a very uneasy and often fraught relationship with the press
    - Allegations for both of marital fights and infidelity
    - Both were said to be emotional and to have clashed with their in-laws
    - Diana divorced; Carolyn rumoured to be heading for divorce prior to her death
    - Both said to be fashion icons
    - Both were canonised by the press once dead
    - Both died in 'tragic accidents' less than 2 years apart
    - Allegations immediately arose after their deaths that they were murdered
    - Both were later said to have faked their deaths and to be living incognito

    In addition to all that, both of their families seemed to blame the in-laws for their deaths. Diana's brother, then Viscount Althorp, delivered a blistering eulogy at her funeral that was taken to be an attack on the royals' treatment of her. Carolyn's family filed a wrongful death lawsuit against the Kennedys and were awarded $15 million.

    Could all of this have been... scripted? The parallels seem too uncanny to me. Also, Carolyn's marriage seems to be similar to:

    "Anyone can become President of the United States"
    "Anyone can become big in Hollywood"
    "Anyone can become a billionaire"

    Do you believe that "any woman from a humble background can marry the country's Most Eligible Bachelor"?

    What do you think?

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    Default Re: Is JFK Jr Still Alive?

    Iota’s account is probably the best evidence of possible survival of JFK Jr, not because it supports the theory in every way, but precisely because it does not. If you are seeking to create doubt, or better still mistaken certainty, this is what it takes.
    Quote John’s cousin was getting married and he and his wife and her sister were going to fly out. The day before, he had lunch with Hillary.
    Eye witness account. Why would they lie?
    Quote They figured he was going to tell HC he was jumping into the race in August to save money and hoped she would bow out.
    This is surely not conjecture: they knew he was jumping into the race because they had discussed it together.
    Quote He was so distracted he barely said hello, unlike him, and he mentioned if they needed him he was going to be at a hotel not at home and didn't say which one.
    This can be taken either to explain why he was going to X or why he was going somewhere else – but not home.
    Quote Instead she explained to him HE should bow out or else and spelled it out so that he knew there was power and evil here.
    As we know, it would be a dead heat in Gore v Bush. There was no chance of Mrs Clinton following 8 years of Mr Bill. Bush Jr only 8 years after Bush Sr was only marginally better, but at least it placed nepotism in the other camp: the lesser of two ‘evils’ - anyone but a Kennedy.
    Quote He called his wife and told her to pack up and take as much as she could and pack up for him, that he felt imminent danger.
    I don’t know about this, but stories of the ‘Clinton body count’ make ‘imminent danger’ sound very plausible.
    Quote He was on crutches due to an injury to his ankle.
    This can be taken either to explain why he crashed or why he didn’t fly.
    Quote He gets to the airport, due to his injury his instructor agrees to fly the sister over to the island and John makes sure people see him so it will look like he was at the wedding and he never gets on the plane but meets Teds contact who hands him a briefcase with I.D.s passports, money and drives them to another airport where they disappear.
    This is as good a spur of the moment solution as one is going to find. It might not have worked. But if it did, it certainly did.

    I look for a precedent (semi-pun half-intended). I can only think of one offhand: Jesus. How many newborn children did Herod dispatch, to no avail?


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    Default Re: Is JFK Jr Still Alive?

    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    Iota’s account is probably the best evidence of possible survival of JFK Jr, not because it supports the theory in every way, but precisely because it does not. If you are seeking to create doubt, or better still mistaken certainty, this is what it takes.
    Thanks Araucaria, I have seen that post; maybe you missed my reply below it!

    It doesn't accord with the fact that they were said to have been staying with members of the Mellon family in New Jersey, so I queried where he allegedly had lunch with her, and why two of his colleagues would be there; even if they had been having lunch in such a massive city as New York, them bumping into each other seems highly coincidental.

    "Eye witness account. Why would they lie? "
    Attention seeking? Who knows what motivates people to lie, but we all know that it's a sad fact that some people do.

    My opinion is that the mainstream account is quite plausible; JFK Jr seems to have had an impetuous nature with little regard for his personal safety, he loved extreme sports and I have seen a lot of photos of him taken at different times with his leg, ankle, arm or wrist bandaged or in a plaster cast. It therefore seems likely that it would have been in his nature to have taken the spur of the moment decision to fly in poor conditions.

    Maybe he did fake his death - let's face it, none of us know the truth about that - but I'm pretty certain that if he did, he's now in permanent retirement and won't reappear.

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    Default Re: Is JFK Jr Still Alive?

    Quote Posted by Brigantia (here)
    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    Iota’s account is probably the best evidence of possible survival of JFK Jr, not because it supports the theory in every way, but precisely because it does not. If you are seeking to create doubt, or better still mistaken certainty, this is what it takes.
    Thanks Araucaria, I have seen that post; maybe you missed my reply below it!

    It doesn't accord with the fact that they were said to have been staying with members of the Mellon family in New Jersey, so I queried where he allegedly had lunch with her, and why two of his colleagues would be there; even if they had been having lunch in such a massive city as New York, them bumping into each other seems highly coincidental.

    "Eye witness account. Why would they lie? "
    Attention seeking? Who knows what motivates people to lie, but we all know that it's a sad fact that some people do.

    My opinion is that the mainstream account is quite plausible; JFK Jr seems to have had an impetuous nature with little regard for his personal safety, he loved extreme sports and I have seen a lot of photos of him taken at different times with his leg, ankle, arm or wrist bandaged or in a plaster cast. It therefore seems likely that it would have been in his nature to have taken the spur of the moment decision to fly in poor conditions.

    Maybe he did fake his death - let's face it, none of us know the truth about that - but I'm pretty certain that if he did, he's now in permanent retirement and won't reappear.
    Thank you Brigantia. Yes, I missed your post, my apologies. I don’t know much about American eating habits, but I do know that if you wanted to find James Angleton at lunchtime in Washington, you would know where to go. People have their preferred haunts, don’t they? But of course Washington DC is such a small town, I was forgetting.

    Sure, some people lie; but it is a happy fact, based on personal experience, that the vast majority do not.

    ‘The mainstream account is quite plausible’; that is precisely what I am saying. To combat plausible deniability, we need to invent ‘deniable plausibility’.

    But you have nothing to say about Jesus. Not only did he survive ruthless attempts on his life at birth, but there were widespread reports that he survived public crucifixion. I am not saying that he did; but for two millennia, a huge majority of people across the world were persuaded/were made aware/held the deepest conviction that this was true. Even if it meant believing in miracles that never happened in their own day. (Note: I am not comparing JFK Jr the man with Jesus Christ.)

    You are ‘pretty certain’: sure, just like all those Christians...


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    Default Re: Is JFK Jr Still Alive?

    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    Thank you Brigantia. Yes, I missed your post, my apologies. I don’t know much about American eating habits, but I do know that if you wanted to find James Angleton at lunchtime in Washington, you would know where to go. People have their preferred haunts, don’t they? But of course Washington DC is such a small town, I was forgetting.
    The eating place isn't the issue, but the fact that it's said that he wasn't in town! So, where was this alleged restaurant? Details, details! This story is full of holes.

    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    Sure, some people lie; but it is a happy fact, based on personal experience, that the vast majority do not.
    I agree that this is true with ordinary people, that is my personal experience too - but where getting a measure of fame is possible, that's another matter. What's the original source of this story, anyway? Always look for the source!

    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    ‘The mainstream account is quite plausible’; that is precisely what I am saying. To combat plausible deniability, we need to invent ‘deniable plausibility’.
    Maybe because it's getting late here, but I don't understand this...

    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    But you have nothing to say about Jesus. Not only did he survive ruthless attempts on his life at birth, but there were widespread reports that he survived public crucifixion. I am not saying that he did; but for two millennia, a huge majority of people across the world were persuaded/were made aware/held the deepest conviction that this was true. Even if it meant believing in miracles that never happened in their own day. (Note: I am not comparing JFK Jr the man with Jesus Christ.)

    You are ‘pretty certain’: sure, just like all those Christians...
    I don't even know if Jesus existed; what were there, about 70 contemporary chroniclers? Not one mentions Jesus... No offence intended to any believers. I do believe that the story was based on someone who existed, probably not in that time or place, but the story as handed down to us has been significantly distorted. Just my opinion.

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    Default Re: Is JFK Jr Still Alive?


    the truth of the matter is Biden found out ...

    had him kidnapped ...

    and has been hidden in Biden's basement til at least 2024 ...

    but .... you did NOT hear this from me!




    no worries! i'm on it!
    Last edited by iota; 1st February 2021 at 23:42.
    We should defend our way of life
    to an extent that any attempt on it is crushed,

    so that any adversary
    will never make such an attempt in the future.

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    Default Re: Is JFK Jr Still Alive?

    another dream i still believe in ...


    their connection was strong ...
    We should defend our way of life
    to an extent that any attempt on it is crushed,

    so that any adversary
    will never make such an attempt in the future.

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    Default Re: Is JFK Jr Still Alive?

    Quote Posted by iota (here)

    the truth of the matter is Biden found out ...

    had him kidnapped ...

    and has been hidden in Biden's basement til at least 2024 ...

    but .... you did NOT hear this from me!




    no worries! i'm on it!
    Hahaha! Way to go, Iota, we've got your back!

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    Default Re: Is JFK Jr Still Alive?

    Going back to my post #367, seeing as it's been a bit sidetracked, I've realised one other similarity between Carolyn and Diana - controversy over their committal arrangements.

    It's said in the mainstream that JFK Jr didn't want a burial site as a place of pilgrimage, thus the committal of ashes to the sea for them both; possibly he felt that, though who knows what we can trust in the mainstream? It's often said that Catholics want to be buried, but attitudes have changed - though it is possible that there is a secret burial site somewhere known only to the families if they did indeed die, and the committal from the US Navy ship was just theatre. Of course if they didn't die, it was definitely theatre. There was also no autopsy done, said to have been at the request of the families - is that even legal with an accidental death?

    As for Diana, her body was illegally embalmed on the instructions of Charles; permission for embalming was necessary from the Mayor of Paris, but not sought. As to her burial - a good friend of mine lives near Althorp, Diana's ancestral home, and she told me that no one in the locality believes that she was buried on the tourist attraction 'island on the lake' site at Althorp. Everyone round there believes that she was interred in the Spencer family vault at Great Brington Church. The Friday evening before the grand funeral service in London, the evening church service was cancelled for 'maintenance'. People heard a lot of hammering in the church before that; they believe that she was interred on the Friday evening and the following day's events were all show.

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    Default Re: Is JFK Jr Still Alive?

    Quote Posted by Brigantia (here)
    Going back to my post #367, seeing as it's been a bit sidetracked, I've realised one other similarity between Carolyn and Diana - controversy over their committal arrangements.

    It's said in the mainstream that JFK Jr didn't want a burial site as a place of pilgrimage, thus the committal of ashes to the sea for them both; possibly he felt that, though who knows what we can trust in the mainstream? It's often said that Catholics want to be buried, but attitudes have changed - though it is possible that there is a secret burial site somewhere known only to the families if they did indeed die, and the committal from the US Navy ship was just theatre. Of course if they didn't die, it was definitely theatre. There was also no autopsy done, said to have been at the request of the families - is that even legal with an accidental death?

    As for Diana, her body was illegally embalmed on the instructions of Charles; permission for embalming was necessary from the Mayor of Paris, but not sought. As to her burial - a good friend of mine lives near Althorp, Diana's ancestral home, and she told me that no one in the locality believes that she was buried on the tourist attraction 'island on the lake' site at Althorp. Everyone round there believes that she was interred in the Spencer family vault at Great Brington Church. The Friday evening before the grand funeral service in London, the evening church service was cancelled for 'maintenance'. People heard a lot of hammering in the church before that; they believe that she was interred on the Friday evening and the following day's events were all show.
    wow! just got caught up and truly intrigued with all your research HC! thank you for this!!

    and thanks for the back up!!! i could really use it sometimes, being as how i'm only 5 ft tall standing on my tippy toes!

    i came across this and thought of you ... you had already made connections and links in this direction .. thought this might be an interesting piece to add somewhere ...



    and then THIS one



    not making assertions .. just sharing what has been speculated and brandied about ... trying to read the smoke signals amidst all the "smoke" which might lead to "fire" ...

    big fan of your research! please don't stop sharing ...
    Last edited by iota; 3rd February 2021 at 04:40. Reason: add second image
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    Default Re: Is JFK Jr Still Alive?

    Thanks Iota for the support!

    Those are interesting comparisons, wow... as I've said before - it's all about the bloodlines!

    Compare Diana with her Spencer siblings, then take a look at Zak and Jemima Goldsmith...

    What I've researched has taken me down so many rabbit holes; it's interesting to look back into the Kennedy family, Joe Sr's bio is very interesting. Also Ari Onassis; what a shady character he was. Did you know that he owned the Monte Carlo casino and its bank, pretty much controlling that principality? Also its proximity to Marseille... French Connection, just saying... He also made his prewar fortune in Argentina and always kept a home there, we all know the postwar rumours about who fled to that country.

    The marriage to Jackie is very odd too, it seems much more like a business arrangement than a love match. Everything unravelled for Onassis a few years after the marriage. I've looked at lots of photos from that era; in the wedding photos she looks happy, he less so.

    Not much related to this thread but I'm posting it because it intrigues me. This is Jackie and JFK Jr leaving Ari's funeral service, and from the other photos I've seen John seems to have been genuinely grieving - look at the expressions. I wonder what had just been said.

    Edit to add - look at the bags under his eyes too - it looks like he hasn't slept for days.
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    Default Re: Is JFK Jr Still Alive?

    I mentioned the weaving of archetypes into the Kennedy narrative in a previous post; these are just a few things that I have noticed, there may be more. It's been years since I studied classical myth and I don't have a profound academic knowledge, also being across the Atlantic we obviously know who the Kennedys are but they are not as widely reported on as in the US; even so, from what I have read about them there seems to be myth-making in their narrative. There may well be more that I've not noticed.

    I would also suggest that it echoes this thread, exploring the idea that current events are unfolding according to a script.

    You are probably familiar with the Kennedy presidency being referred to as Camelot - that is said to have come from Jackie in an interview after she was widowed, who said that they used to sit together in the evenings and listen to the score of the 1960 musical Camelot. We only have her word for that.

    Camelot... King Arthur... the Once and Eternal King... the king who is not dead but sleeps with his knights, and they will all awaken to defend the country when it is threatened. Was this laying the foundations of a future Kennedy presidency in the psyche of the people? Immortalising JFK? BTW, I don't believe that Jackie was the airhead that she made herself out to be; there's no better way to make people underestimate you than to appear to be stupid.

    The narrative of the past couple of years about the return from hiding of JFK Jr is the exiled king or prince, who is either banished or flees in the face of danger, wanders in the wilderness for years with great adventures and adversity but overcomes them all in a journey of self-realisation. His people believe him to be dead but then the prince returns, defeats his foes, all the people rejoice and live happily ever after.

    That is an ancient myth; Oedipus, Theseus, Arthur, Labraid Loingsech to mention a few and recently given a modern makeover with Luke Skywalker. JRR Tolkien also wove the exiled king myth into the story of The Lord of the Rings with Strider/Aragorn; his trilogy is like an encyclopaedia of archetypes, he had an impressive knowledge of the ancient myths.

    Then you have RFK Jr - said to have been thrown out of the house by his mother when he was 14 and was taken in by Lem Billings. Is this another exiled prince?

    Another story that I remember, from a biography of the Kennedys - towards the end of Joseph Sr's life when he was very ill, he called for his nurse one night as he was cold. She didn't want to put the light on (why?) so she reached into the linen cupboard for a blanket and covered him with it. In the morning he was crying out in agony - she had taken the flag that had draped JFK's coffin out of the linen cupboard and put it over Joe.

    I read this years ago and believed it when younger and more gullible - now I think it's more myth-making. Would that flag have been stored with the bed linen? Would she not have known the difference in texture between a blanket and a flag, even in the dark? This is bunkum, and another archetype - the elderly king grieving for his slain son, either over his son's broken body or some other memento, such as his bloodied clothing. It echoes The Iliad, and King Priam prostrate with grief over the death of his son Hector during the siege of Troy. This archetype is also found in Tolkien's The Return of the King, with Denethor, Steward of Gondor, going mad over the death of his favoured son Boromir.

    Following on from my post above about the parallels between Carolyn and Diana, I suspect that they are both the Mary Magdalene archetype; alleged misdeeds and frailties exposed in life, sanctified in death.

    Carolyn was obviously Cinderella, an archetype from folklore that has a recorded provenance of over 2000 years and was probably far older than that in the oral tradition; the poor girl taken from obscurity to high rank. Carolyn was the daughter of a cabinet maker - a carpenter with a specialism, and echoes of the Nativity there - who is 'discovered' (huge red flag there IMO) and given a far more prestigious role at Calvin Klein, which takes her to greater heights that put her in the path of Prince Charming.

    This is my personal opinion, make of it what you will - I suspect that Carolyn had a hidden bloodline and was possibly planted during infancy or early childhood into an ordinary family. Her early life bio may be scrubbed, just like Kate Middleton's, and I find it very odd that there are no pre-teen photos of her. That must be a first for someone with that level of fame. Please post them if you know of any!

    This is the provenance of the Cinderella story from Wiki (my emphasis):

    "'Cinderella', or 'The Little Glass Slipper', is a folk tale about oppression and triumphant reward. Thousands of variants are known throughout the world. The protagonist is a young woman living in forsaken circumstances that are suddenly changed to remarkable fortune, with her ascension to the throne via marriage. The story of Rhodopis, recounted by the Greek geographer Strabo sometime between around 7 BC and AD 23, about a Greek slave girl who marries the king of Egypt, is usually considered to be the earliest known variant of the Cinderella story.

    The Chinese story of Ye Xian, first attested in a source from around AD 860, is another early variant of the story. The first literary European version of the story was published in Italy by Giambattista Basile in his Pentamerone in 1634; the version that is now most widely known in the English-speaking world was published in French by Charles Perrault in Histoires ou contes du temps passé in 1697. Another version was later published by the Brothers Grimm in their folk tale collection Grimms' Fairy Tales in 1812.

    Although the story's title and main character's name change in different languages, in English-language folklore Cinderella is an archetypal name. The word Cinderella has, by analogy, come to mean one whose attributes were unrecognised: one who unexpectedly achieves recognition or success after a period of obscurity and neglect. The still-popular story of Cinderella continues to influence popular culture internationally, lending plot elements, allusions, and tropes to a wide variety of media."

    Finally, this is a parallel rather than an archetype. I have read that JFK's tumultuous marriage was patched up in their final year together and they were getting along well. Exactly the same narrative has been spun for John Jr and Carolyn, I suspect that the narrative is laying on the tragedy with a trowel; just as all is going well, suddenly everything falls apart.
    Last edited by Brigantia; 10th February 2021 at 15:45.

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    France Avalon Member araucaria's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is JFK Jr Still Alive?

    Quote Posted by Brigantia (here)
    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    Thank you Brigantia. Yes, I missed your post, my apologies. I don’t know much about American eating habits, but I do know that if you wanted to find James Angleton at lunchtime in Washington, you would know where to go. People have their preferred haunts, don’t they? But of course Washington DC is such a small town, I was forgetting.
    The eating place isn't the issue, but the fact that it's said that he wasn't in town! So, where was this alleged restaurant? Details, details! This story is full of holes.

    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    Sure, some people lie; but it is a happy fact, based on personal experience, that the vast majority do not.
    I agree that this is true with ordinary people, that is my personal experience too - but where getting a measure of fame is possible, that's another matter. What's the original source of this story, anyway? Always look for the source!

    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    ‘The mainstream account is quite plausible’; that is precisely what I am saying. To combat plausible deniability, we need to invent ‘deniable plausibility’.
    Maybe because it's getting late here, but I don't understand this...

    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    But you have nothing to say about Jesus. Not only did he survive ruthless attempts on his life at birth, but there were widespread reports that he survived public crucifixion. I am not saying that he did; but for two millennia, a huge majority of people across the world were persuaded/were made aware/held the deepest conviction that this was true. Even if it meant believing in miracles that never happened in their own day. (Note: I am not comparing JFK Jr the man with Jesus Christ.)

    You are ‘pretty certain’: sure, just like all those Christians...
    I don't even know if Jesus existed; what were there, about 70 contemporary chroniclers? Not one mentions Jesus... No offence intended to any believers. I do believe that the story was based on someone who existed, probably not in that time or place, but the story as handed down to us has been significantly distorted. Just my opinion.
    I want to make a general point or two here, not getting into any arguments.
    Regarding ‘details details’. I answered your idea about the meeting being too coincidental: people have favourite haunts in and out of town where they can be found. Also people sometimes arrange to conveniently bump into each other… The whereabouts of the restaurant is not relevant to the plausibility of the story. While such information might serve as useful corroboration, but no more than that, it may be simply that you are raisinq questions not asked at the time or not answered in advance of questioning. The trouble is, a liar would also have an answer to this kind of question, so it would be of limited value.

    The other problem with poring over details is that the main issue may be somehow taken as read. If I were picking holes in a story like this, methodologically speaking, I would start with the big picture, namely that it is a horrific and possibly preposterous accusation to be levelling at Mrs Clinton. To think her capable of such things almost unqueryingly just shows how far we have crept down a slippery slope. Back then, after years of Monicagate, I was expecting poor Hillary to put an end to a toxic marriage – in the way Mrs Dominique Strauss-Kahn did very decisively much later on. That she never did was an initial indication that she maybe wasn’t the nice person I and others had presumed a former first lady to be. So the first clue came from her: she still had ongoing business with Bill. The next clue came from Bill: anything he was up to, she was doing by association, as a partner in marriage or possibly crime. They had stepped into the realm of what I am calling ‘deniable plausibility’, the parting of the ways with plausible deniability, where denial becomes increasingly implausible. This leads to ‘I wouldn’t put it past him/her’ territory where people who have squandered a reputation are potentially guilty of anything and everything.

    So this is a two-edged sword. On the one hand, it is all too easy to fall lazily into the trap of demonizing someone. On the other, it is often easier in the courts to secure a conviction on multiple charges than for a single crime or felony. For example, a serial killer can become detectable not by repeating the same mistake but by repeating the same near-perfect crime. It creates a pattern. So in a sense, in order to unmask this type of ‘demon’, you have to entertain the concept of the ‘demon’, way beyond the almost respectable one-off murderer, and then apply it to X or Y. Here, the longer the list of ‘Clinton crimes’ grows, the more that will be added to it, and the more plausible each one will appear. But until careful prosecution occurs, the suspect walks free and as the accusations become increasingly preposterous the presumption of innocence becomes easier to impose.

    The same logic holds for victims. With regard to presidential races, the Kennedys are serial victims, making John Jr a more plausible victim than someone else, because it fits a pattern. To put it the other way round, supposing this were planned, then it would be reasonable to assume the same motive and perpetrators were involved. We also need to factor in the fact that another Kennedy presidency was a big no-no for the people in charge, and if he just fell out of the sky, that was a serious stroke of good luck for them. These things happen all the time.

    However, what makes the John Jr business different from the story so far would be the pattern it forms with the archetypal tale of the (hero’s) return. Not only does he return as himself, in a sense it would also be the return of JFK Sr. What makes the myth of the return so extremely powerful is doubtless its rarity, when so many disappearances, mysterious and otherwise are our daily fare. This was the point of my reference to Christianity: you don’t have to believe in the resurrection, but if it didn’t happen, then you have to account for a two-thousand year old civilization being built entirely on what amounts to a founding myth – which if anything is even more amazing. But the hugely positive overall message of Jesus is somewhat beside the point. I was thinking of a modern example of the return, the Japanese soldier who didn’t know the war had ended, when Bill Ryan posted this timely thread.


    One of the founding myths of the ancient Greeks was the return of Ulysses, ten years after the ten-year Trojan War ended. Homer’s Odyssey recounts what took him so long and the swamp he had to drain on reaching his palace. Ulysses is the smart guy who had a plan to escape the draft (it failed) and a plan to end the interminable war: the Trojan horse. The Trojan horse was already a hero’s return scenario: one that went viral (notice the computer virus of that name). You had a foreign cell entering the city of Troy which was not excreted but allowed to develop within its walls into a military commando spilling out soldiers. In addition you had the return of the entire Greek expeditionary force, which had pretended to set sail for home. Putting an end to a war can be a very bloody affair. So, while no Gandhi, Ulysses did get the job done and everyone could go home (except for himself).

    The Trojan War is probably not myth: in the 1890s, Heinrich Schliemann discovered archaeological evidence of Troy at Hissarlik in Turkey. What makes such events more plausible is that they occur as an upturn after difficult times. I see this as coming out of a time slip, which is rather like a parenthesis or a quote in a piece of writing. You close the parenthesis or end the quote, and return to what went before. Times were hard because you were not where you were supposed to be, and now you come back.

    I wrote the above four days ago: I see from your latest post that we agree on the relevance of myth. Coincidentally, I have just been rereading John Buchan’s The Dancing Floor, which is a modern retelling of the ancient Greek spring festival ritual murder of the virgin koré and kouros as scapegoats, with a built-in miracle return of the god and goddess avoiding any bloodshed.


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    UK Avalon Member Brigantia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is JFK Jr Still Alive?

    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    I want to make a general point or two here, not getting into any arguments.
    Okayyy...

    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    I answered your idea about the meeting being too coincidental...
    You didn't answer the fact that he was said to have been out of the city. In any case, if you go back to that original thread, I'm paraphrasing here but it's saying that after they heard about the plane crash, the narrator of this account phoned around (unnamed) 'contacts' and this is what they think happened.

    Not an eyewitness account at all - just what they thought happened, not what they knew to have happened! There is therefore no credibility to that account, probably baloney, so I don't see the point in picking over it.

    Pushed for time here, so just two more observations.

    Schliemann's Troy has been widely discredited, it's too small for a start, and you only have to read his bio to realise that he was a treasure seeker and an attention seeker. In other words, a fake. No one knows with any certainty where Troy was.

    The Iliad and Odyssey are based on older myths from another culture, possibly the Phoenicians; the etymology of the name Odysseus is not Greek.
    Last edited by Brigantia; 10th February 2021 at 18:16.

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