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Thread: When men were men & women were feminine

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Quote Posted by Wind (here)
    I haven't really been following this thread, but let me express my thoughts. Overall the problem in society is once again energy and the problem is not men or women, just the imbalance in energies. What a shocker!

    Yin and Yang, it's really quite that simple. (...) feeling the Creator within. We all are part of that One.

    I found this video pretty good even if it's quite simple.

    Wind, I like your stand. I myself have occasionally glanced at this thread, and – well... a lot of circular reasoning, which helps nobody.

    My little contribution to this thread would be to suggest reflecting about three things.

    The first one is circular reasoning. Why are there women and men? Well... Let's see... Nature is balancing of Yin and Yang energies, is it not? So you have that in persons as well. Women are Yin, and men are Yang, basically. (Of course there are different doses of each in everybody (like in the video you included: it is 80/20 folks, men are 80 Yang and 20n Yin, and women are 80 Yin and 20 Yang). Aha. Great progress. Now from trying to define men and women, and doing so by referring to the concepts of Yang and Yin,we have a new task at hand: how do we define Yang and how do we define Yin? Err... that is simple. (Again: ""simple".. it "is simple" (sigh of relief).) You know: Yang is masculine, that is: how men are – and Yin is how women are: Yin is feminine. Oh, great! But then... if women are 20 (p.c.) Yang, and 80 (p.c.) Yin – and we define "how women are" by saying that they are Yin, then women are 20 p.c. Yang + 80 p.c. of (20 p.c. Yang + 80 p.c. Yin), are they not? Err... Yes, and now we have a new problem, which is, in fact, the same problem... and ...and (the wheel of the computer iterations keeps spinning) and... and ... and..

    So that leads nowhere.

    Second observation.
    Fortunately we have Chinese, or rather "New Age Chinese" philosophy. Yin and Yang is everywhere. Head & Shoulders shampoo for instance. Head is Yin and Shoulders is Yang. Chopsticks or knife and fork? Chopsticks are 80 p.c. Yin and knife and fork are 80 p.c. Yang. In a way, a chopstick is a forkknife and, in a way a knifefork is a chopstick you know. And spoons? What about them.

    It has always struck me that the same "New Agers" who swear by Yin and Yang also swear by Advaita, Non-Dualism. (It is especially useful during pointless and endless discussions... "Oh but what you are saying is dualistic thinking" and three minutes later: "Oh but you should also see the Yin side of it, you are stuck in your Yang-ity".

    How odd, is it not? The great civilisation of China is a thoroughly "dualisticised" society, in which everything is conceptualised around Yin-Yang polarities. But.. is it? Is "strong" really the "opposite" of "weak"? And... if we take a closer look at the founding texts of Chinese civilisation: the Tao-Te-King for instance (and not just by reading any of the hyper-superficial (or super-hyperficial) translations that abound) but by studying the Chinese text itself, patiently looking up the characters and their many meanings, comparing the best translations etc. – humbly studying it, we gradually discover the dialectical build-up of the expressed philosophy – even "hyper-dialectical" in that the feedback loops between concepts are not just structured as 1-2-3 loops, but as complex graphs involving many more elements. We are far from the New Age Yin Yang binarities. Far from simplistic reasoning. And when we cautiously read another foundational text, Zhuang-Zu’s “Outer Chapters", as the humble students we should be, and we discover Zhuan-Zu’s koan-like total relativisation of thinking with simple concepts, and of language itself, then...

    You see, that is my third observation. When we delve into the nature of language, and discover the mutual "untranslatability" of languages (yes, translations are made continuously, even by Google, but... is "peace" really the translation of the German "Frieden" or the Russian “mir"?), we understand that every word (and/or its underlying concepts) defines a dimension of meaning by and in itself. In logical-analytical thinking we can define "strong" as the "opposite" of "not-strong", but not as the "opposite" of "weak". And a child knows that, better even than an adult: by being "weak", we can be "strong", and there can be "weakness" in "strength" etc. We might even define "strong" as 80 p.c. Strength and 20 p.c. Weakness... and then (see above).

    There is a psychological or ethical, or metaphysical aspect to this. As Giorgio Agamben says: the only universal quality all humans share is their “singularity”, their uniqueness. Not only each word founds a dimension of meaning, each human founds a dimension of humanity, of being human.

    How can we “know” another person? Maybe not so well by plastering this person with our language, to the extent that we master it, that is. Or by navigating by the language this person plasters onto his/herself. It strikes me that discussions about "maleness" or "femaleness" tend to be full of "soul" and full of "mind".. Why are they not full of body? The Bible uses, even in Hebrew and Aramaic, a verb for "to know" in order to express sexual interrelating with another human. Isn’t lovemaking a far superior way of understanding another person than "chatting" (in all its, socially framed, forms)? Should’nt we teach the art of lovemaking in schools?

    How refined is our experience of the inner world of other humans who keep silent? A good psychoanalyst, a good priest hearing confession, listens. How good are we at listening to the other body lying in our arms? Isn’t that much more important than fast-track positing "truths" about how men or women were supposed to be "when we were young"? Have we examined for ourselves how thorough the social conditioning is of our "being-with" a person?

    My small experience has taught me that the uniqueness of other humans "lying with me" will never be “known” by me entirely (this "me" being hardly known to myself).. but the sweetness of the embrace results from my acknowledging this otherness of the other, his or her singularity – so that lovemaking is from the beginning and beyond the end, saying "thank you".

    The example of the girl "cross-dressing" (dualistic thinking at work!) as a boy and, while being in this persona, trying to initiate a loving exchange with another girl is met with little understanding, even aversion. But.., may I suggest, ...: "what the heck do we know"? What do we know about her inner life, about her desires, about her dream of fascination and wonder, that makes her approach other humans like that? At least for the time being? It takes courage to do what she does. Maybe we should go to her and buy her a drink and start a conversation with her, but hold hands all the while so that retreat into mutual judgemental, "frozen-screen-like" use of language is belied by hands that caress?
    Last edited by Michel Leclerc; 25th December 2021 at 00:27.

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  3. Link to Post #282
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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Quote Posted by Malisa (here)
    Something that i found very odd in general is this, in other societies, if a guy likes a guy and it is not "a crime" (such as in some middle east countries) then they can be a couple if they want, but they remain "guys"

    When i was living in Mexico, i met a doctor, he was gay and was living with another guy, they still dressed as boys and liked to, they were great and had great style, they looked like boys in all ways, except they were gay and that was perfectly fine. It is of no one business who a person dates or loves.

    But the other aspect is that one of dropping all things that may lead people to think you are a boy, and convert yourself into a woman by force. I even met a girl that turned herself into a boy, entirely. We were a bit drunk and then 'he' tried to kiss me once, so she was a girl dressed as a boy and acting boy like, who felt attracted to a girl? I thought she had mental issues and stopped hanging out with her

    If i felt attracted to girls, i would look for pretty girls with a certain image and style, and personality. Why would i date a girl that turned herself into a boy with mental issues? That's what boys are there for It doesn't make any sense

    If she liked girls, why not remain a girl and date another girl, but still love herself the way she actually was born? And she was very pretty by the way, but the constant attempt to make herself look like a boy caused her to lose it and she became less attractive over time until she was neither a girl or a boy, she looked like a complete disaster most times, she just did not know how to have style, when dressing as a man, so she turned into some kind of ridiculous girl with odd ugly clothes that talked rude because 'man talk like that', even her voice sounded harsh and not at all like a boy would talk, it was comical and sad

    I believe that anyone can date or be with whoever they want, that's their problem. The issue is more with forcing it so much that it turns into some kind of unidentifiable entity that doesn't even know what they want or how to be. Kind of like the entire identity/personality of that person is missing and it has to be faked. That's how it feels to me at least

    Right, none of it makes any sense. Unless of course it's intended to not make sense, in which case it does make a kind of sense In other words, I think this has all been done on purpose. It's obvious social engineering.

    It's not just a war on sex and gender and beauty - It's a war on normal. It's a war on truth. The postmodern individual rejects all of those things. They only believe in their "truth", not *the* Truth. They reject the idea of normality outright; they reject objectivity.

    By accepting that you are something, male or female for example, you assume all the expectations and responsibilities that go along with those labels. The postmodern individual doesn't believe in expectations or responsibilities. And I think that's what all this so called "gender fluidity" is about in at least one sense - steadfastly avoiding any kind of commitment, responsibility, or expectation. Those 3 things create coherent boundaries in which to live one's life sensically. Without them you're flailing in the wind. But the postmodernists reject boundaries and sense making too. It's too "oppressive". And by oppressive, what they often mean without realizing it is that they are rejecting the call to demonstrate courage, responsibility, and sensible action. The whole idea behind being deliberately vague and foggy about what one is is to defy labels and therefore any expectation that might be attached to them. It's not progressive; it's just another form of cowardice.

    There is such a thing as normal. With sex and the sexes, for instance, normal means being straight. We know this because if everyone were gay or trans, the human species couldn't propagate itself. So straight is the standard. I'm not making any judgements on the various deviations! I'm simply saying there is a normal in this instance.

    There is such a thing as male and female. They do exist. And that is also the normal order of things, for the same reason I indicated above.

    There is such a thing as absolute values. Morality is not relative. We know this because our absolute or God given values ( handed down thru the centuries by various religions and spiritual masters) clearly make most things better for most people.

    Beauty is not really relative either. We all have our own tastes, sure, but we all know Beauty when we see it. Beauty connects us to the divine..whether it be art, architecture, or physical beauty. The woke postmodernists frequently make themselves and things around them deliberately ugly. Not just ugly, but bizarre and hideous, particularly in the cases of people mutilating themselves in order to outwardly express a mental illness that is telling them they should appear as the opposite sex (or "gender" as they'd likely put it)

    Objective reality exists. Truth exists. Normal exists. It's self evident. Accepting that is to also accept the natural burden of being, and everything that accompanies that. The postmodern woke prefer a subjective fantasy land where any sort of existentential reality is "oppressive", and where rejecting courage and responsibility in favor of victimhood is both noble and good. In their world being born a male is oppressive; being born a female is oppressive. And the only God given right we own is one that allows them to complain incessantly about it.

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  5. Link to Post #283
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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Quote Posted by Michel Leclerc (here)
    Quote Posted by Wind (here)
    I haven't really been following this thread, but let me express my thoughts. Overall the problem in society is once again energy and the problem is not men or women, just the imbalance in energies. What a shocker!

    Yin and Yang, it's really quite that simple. (...) feeling the Creator within. We all are part of that One.

    I found this video pretty good even if it's quite simple.

    Wind, I like your stand. I myself have occasionally glanced at this thread, and – well... a lot of circular reasoning, which helps nobody.

    My little contribution to this thread would be to suggest reflecting about three things.

    The first one is circular reasoning. Why are there women and men? Well... Let's see... Nature is balancing of Yin and Yang energies, is it not? So you have that in persons as well. Women are Yin, and men are Yang, basically. (Of course there are different doses of each in everybody (like in the video you included: it is 80/20 folks, men are 80 Yang and 20n Yin, and women are 80 Yin and 20 Yang). Aha. Great progress. Now from trying to define men and women, and doing so by referring to the concepts of Yang and Yin,we have a new task at hand: how do we define Yang and how do we define Yin? Err... that is simple. (Again: ""simple".. it "is simple" (sigh of relief).) You know: Yang is masculine, that is: how men are – and Yin is how women are: Yin is feminine. Oh, great! But then... if women are 20 (p.c.) Yang, and 80 (p.c.) Yin – and we define "how women are" by saying that they are Yin, then women are 20 p.c. Yang + 80 p.c. of (20 p.c. Yang + 80 p.c. Yin), are they not? Err... Yes, and now we have a new problem, which is, in fact, the same problem... and ...and (the wheel of the computer iterations keeps spinning) and... and ... and..

    So that leads nowhere.

    Second observation.
    Fortunately we have Chinese, or rather "New Age Chinese" philosophy. Yin and Yang is everywhere. Head & Shoulders shampoo for instance. Head is Yin and Shoulders is Yang. Chopsticks or knife and fork? Chopsticks are 80 p.c. Yin and knife and fork are 80 p.c. Yang. In a way, a chopstick is a forkknife and, in a way a knifefork is a chopstick you know. And spoons? What about them.

    It has always struck me that the same "New Agers" who swear by Yin and Yang also swear by Advaita, Non-Dualism. (It is especially useful during pointless and endless discussions... "Oh but what you are saying is dualistic thinking" and three minutes later: "Oh but you should also see the Yin side of it, you are stuck in your Yang-ity".

    How odd, is it not? The great civilisation of China is a thoroughly "dualisticised" society, in which everything is conceptualised around Yin-Yang polarities. But.. is it? Is "strong" really the "opposite" of "weak"? And... if we take a closer look at the founding texts of Chinese civilisation: the Tao-Te-King for instance (and not just by reading any of the hyper-superficial (or super-hyperficial) translations that abound) but by studying the Chinese text itself, patiently looking up the characters and their many meanings, comparing the best translations etc. – humbly studying it, we gradually discover the dialectical build-up of the expressed philosophy – even "hyper-dialectical" in that the feedback loops between concepts are not just structured as 1-2-3 loops, but as complex graphs involving many more elements. We are far from the New Age Yin Yang binarities. Far from simplistic reasoning. And when we cautiously read another foundational text, Zhuang-Zu’s “Outer Chapters", as the humble students we should be, and we discover Zhuan-Zu’s koan-like total relativisation of thinking with simple concepts, and of language itself, then...

    You see, that is my third observation. When we delve into the nature of language, and discover the mutual "untranslatability" of languages (yes, translations are made continuously, even by Google, but... is "peace" really the translation of the German "Frieden" or the Russian “mir"?), we understand that every word (and/or its underlying concepts) defines a dimension of meaning by and in itself. In logical-analytical thinking we can define "strong" as the "opposite" of "not-strong", but not as the "opposite" of "weak". And a child knows that, better even than an adult: by being "weak", we can be "strong", and there can be "weakness" in "strength" etc. We might even define "strong" as 80 p.c. Strength and 20 p.c. Weakness... and then (see above).

    There is a psychological or ethical, or metaphysical aspect to this. As Giorgio Agamben says: the only universal quality all humans share is their “singularity”, their uniqueness. Not only each word founds a dimension of meaning, each human founds a dimension of humanity, of being human.

    How can we “know” another person? Maybe not so well by plastering this person with our language, to the extent that we master it, that is. Or by navigating by the language this person plasters onto his/herself. It strikes me that discussions about "maleness" or "femaleness" tend to be full of "soul" and full of "mind".. Why are they not full of body? The Bible uses, even in Hebrew and Aramaic, a verb for "to know" in order to express sexual interrelating with another human. Isn’t lovemaking a far superior way of understanding another person than "chatting" (in all its, socially framed, forms)? Should’nt we teach the art of lovemaking in schools?

    How refined is our experience of the inner world of other humans who keep silent? A good psychoanalyst, a good priest hearing confession, listens. How good are we at listening to the other body lying in our arms? Isn’t that much more important than fast-track positing "truths" about how men or women were supposed to be "when we were young"? Have we examined for ourselves how thorough the social conditioning is of our "being-with" a person?

    My small experience has taught me that the uniqueness of other humans "lying with me" will never be “known” by me entirely (this "me" being hardly known to myself).. but the sweetness of the embrace results from my acknowledging this otherness of the other, his or her singularity – so that lovemaking is from the beginning and beyond the end, saying "thank you".

    The example of the girl "cross-dressing" (dualistic thinking at work!) as a boy and, while being in this persona, trying to initiate a loving exchange with another girl is met with little understanding, even aversion. But.., may I suggest, ...: "what the heck do we know"? What do we know about her inner life, about her desires, about her dream of fascination and wonder, that makes her approach other humans like that? At least for the time being? It takes courage to do what she does. Maybe we should go to her and buy her a drink and start a conversation with her, but hold hands all the while so that retreat into mutual judgemental, "frozen-screen-like" use of language is belied by hands that caress?
    I think the problem is more deeper than just not understanding her, i left out a few things but maybe this will explain more

    I have, previously experimented and dated a girl, but that was at 18/19 and i found that i was just not feeling or being honest and ended it. If a person like her tries to come and kiss me out of nowhere because she's now a boy and i like boys, and then feels angry or betrayed or thinks i'm hating her sexual orientation, then she has a problem. I'm not obligated to date her or give her a chance just because she dresses like a boy, and i'm not hating if i said i don't want to date another girl, even if she feels she's a boy inside. There's a line there that some people cross and say "well now i'm a boy so you have to accept it as such, and since we get along so well and love to spend time with each other and have so much fun, you need to accept me as your boyfriend, it was meant to be". No it was not and it destroys everything. The person is not, doesn't truly act, or feel like a boy, it's a girl in guy's clothes.

    I did not feel aversion to her, instead i felt betrayal, taking advantage of me being a bit drunk, and expecting that i must comply or oblige to her wishes because 'she's a boy' now, that's not how any of that works. I have other gay friends and they don't act like that, like i explained on that post, both guys and girls but they remain the same person as before they figured out their interests, it's just like some girls like girls, but they tend to look for girls that are feminine, and not for girls that look like boys. In that case, if you are a girl and look for girls that look like boys, then isn't that actually that you like boys in the first place? The way i see it is that she was troubled, because she destroyed all her feminine ways with hate and made sure to be a full boy, but also wasn't one, she acted nothing like a nice boy, she was like a crazy drunk guy that if you reject gets mad and violent and insults and then goes into a crazy rampage about how woman are cruel and useless and other things. That's not normal

    I have seen this before online as well, the idea that if a guy reject a kiss by a guy that is a trans-woman now, you are hating trans people. So you have to accept the kiss from a guy dressed as a woman, if you don't then you are hating. Is that acceptable conduct at all?

    I was betrayed badly by her, we were very close and i did enjoy time we spent, and she was at my apartment staying like 4 days per week, sleeping there and all, but that doesn't mean i need to conform to her expectations, we were friends only

    It does take courage and i was accepting of her the way she was, but she wasn't accepting of me the way i was/am, see? That't the thing. I don't know what went through her mind, but i understand my feelings like this, if i had turned gay and accepted it and moved on with my life like that, then i would like girls that are girls in full. I'm a tomboy already, why would i look for other tomboy? I would instead look for girls that look like Zendaya, i find her tremendously attractive, the way she is. Why would i like a girl like Zendaya and then go look for someone who completely hides away her feminine side, which is what i would look for in girls in the first place?


    Maybe i'm being too narrow, but none of this makes any sense to me. It seems like a lot of confusion going on about what people want
    Tired

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Unpacking it a bit here, because i wrote a lot of stuff and i'm not sure even myself if i make any sense

    - If a boy likes girls, he looks for beautiful girls
    - If a girl likes boys, she looks for beautiful boys
    - If a boy likes boys, he looks for beautiful boys
    - If a girl likes girls, she looks for beautiful girls

    But i see this happening
    - If a girl likes girls, she looks for gils that look like boys
    - If a boy like boys, he looks for boys that look like girls

    The first part, it happens in my country, and people know if two guys or two girls are dating, and no one says anything or cares, it's their problem. It's of no one business

    The second part, that's what Putin was mostly referring to, some kind of confusing ideology or issue that doesn't allow the person to truly figure out what they need/want. Do girls like girls that are pretty, or do they like girls that look like boys and act nothing like a girl would? If a girl turns into a boy because she's gay now, will she be in love with another girl that also turned into a boy, or look for feminine girls, like a boy would? That's the difference and what most people here on my side of the world don't understand, it seems to be a very confusing time for people in the west

    Maybe i'm missing something but my gay friends all remain boys and girls in the exact way they were before, they just happen to date people of their same sex, but they don't want or like to change their styles of clothing or act in odd ways. And that's perfectly fine, it's their right and i don't have or care to say anything about it.

    I don't get the other approach, to turn things into some kind of twisted game in which you are a woman and like woman so you turn into a man that likes woman that also have turned into man, so now you are a boy that likes boys. If you liked boys so much, so then remain a woman and date a boy, it's all the same but without the extra steps?
    Last edited by Mashika; 25th December 2021 at 01:39.
    Tired

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Masha you've explained it all beautifully.

    The issue is often this: Trans/non binary etc people are demanding you accept their subjective fantasy in place of objective reality. If you do not engage in the delusion you are not only bigoted and hateful, but you're also "denying their existence". Of course what's really happening is that they are denying objective existence and demanding you do the same. So even while they're accusing you of denying their existence, they're actually denying yours and everyone else's (what we call objective reality)

    Anything and anyone that is normal in any way is being gaslit in order to establish a "new normal". They are trying to normalize insanity. They're slowly making it illegal to make sense.

    P.s. I quoted you above and responded but you may have missed it because you posted right after me

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Anything and anyone that is normal in any way is being gaslit in order to establish a "new normal". They are trying to normalize insanity. They're slowly making it illegal to make sense.
    now you get it......

    read the 10 planks of communism.

    the out come is the destruction of the nuclear family... the destruction of anything organized for progress with an emphasis on organization against anything viewed as oppressive (AKA the exacerbation of dichotomy).... the trap has been laid and we have willingly walked into it for the last 200 years or so....

    history is so ****ing important.... I never knew .
    Hard times create strong men, Strong men create good times, Good times create weak men, Weak men create hard times.
    Where are you?

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Quote Posted by Malisa (here)
    But i see this happening
    - If a girl likes girls, she looks for gils that look like boys
    - If a boy like boys, he looks for boys that look like girls
    "When you've seen beyond yourself, then you may find, peace of mind is waiting there." ~ George Harrison

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    A while since this thread saw any activity but I would like to share this personal story.

    I have a son at college, he is 17 years old. I have met a few of his friends from college over the preceding few months. I have also heard some details about others. There is a biological girl that has given everyone her chosen male name and from now on she is a he and he gets quite upset should anyone not follow his rules re pronouns etc. Likewise there is a biological boy that lives life as a girl. A couple of others refuse all gender labels and insist they are of no sex. Unsurprisingly people sometimes forget who they are talking too and people are often getting offended. Too add to this confusion there is one person that determines their gender on a seemingly day to day basis on how they feel.

    There are several young adults in his year that have identity issues; and perhaps he is struggling a bit too. A couple of weeks ago I heard him say on the phone that he might be bisexual. (Rewind just one year ago - I heard him express feeling uncomfortable about homosexual relations and that he just 'felt' it was wrong). Yes, people can change their opinions over time and maybe he is just learning more about himself. However, I think he is most likely confused a little and still trying to work out where he fits into everything. I say this because his attractions all lie in the female direction, it was only boys dressing as girls that he found a bit 'confusing'.

    Fitting in for many people is a mostly unconscious process. Exposed to the 'modern' ideas about gender identities and political correctness I cannot say with confidence I would have negotiated that environment smoothly.

    Perhaps the biggest problem for him is having to constantly check yourself before you speak, who are you talking too and are you using the proper pronouns. Could it be considered offensive etc. etc. The end result for many, it seems, is less talking. That is the safest way.

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Quote Posted by Ewan (here)
    A while since this thread saw any activity but I would like to share this personal story.

    I have a son at college, he is 17 years old. I have met a few of his friends from college over the preceding few months. I have also heard some details about others. There is a biological girl that has given everyone her chosen male name and from now on she is a he and he gets quite upset should anyone not follow his rules re pronouns etc. Likewise there is a biological boy that lives life as a girl. A couple of others refuse all gender labels and insist they are of no sex. Unsurprisingly people sometimes forget who they are talking too and people are often getting offended. Too add to this confusion there is one person that determines their gender on a seemingly day to day basis on how they feel.

    There are several young adults in his year that have identity issues; and perhaps he is struggling a bit too. A couple of weeks ago I heard him say on the phone that he might be bisexual. (Rewind just one year ago - I heard him express feeling uncomfortable about homosexual relations and that he just 'felt' it was wrong). Yes, people can change their opinions over time and maybe he is just learning more about himself. However, I think he is most likely confused a little and still trying to work out where he fits into everything. I say this because his attractions all lie in the female direction, it was only boys dressing as girls that he found a bit 'confusing'.

    Fitting in for many people is a mostly unconscious process. Exposed to the 'modern' ideas about gender identities and political correctness I cannot say with confidence I would have negotiated that environment smoothly.

    Perhaps the biggest problem for him is having to constantly check yourself before you speak, who are you talking too and are you using the proper pronouns. Could it be considered offensive etc. etc. The end result for many, it seems, is less talking. That is the safest way.
    The way we used to handle this on my group of friends was more like this

    We did not use anything like "he/she/they/them/whatever"

    We simply called the person by their name, whichever they had at the time, If a guy suddenly was Alexandra then that was it, "Where is Alexandra?" "Alexandra is over there",

    Or like

    - Have you seen Alex?
    + Yes Alex's over there

    Instead of "Yes he/she/they is over there"

    It always fit because no matter the person feels like that day or who they feel they are, their name is their name and that avoids the possible problem with having to check yourself constantly

    But may not work the same everywhere, don't know

    ETA:

    But probably someone can find a way to say that mentioning the person by their name instead of a preferred pronoun is also offensive because it ignores how the person wants to be called as or defined as or treated like or accepted as or something like that

    Last edited by Mashika; 27th March 2022 at 08:36.
    Tired

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Quote Posted by Malisa (here)
    Quote Posted by Ewan (here)
    A while since this thread saw any activity but I would like to share this personal story.

    I have a son at college, he is 17 years old. I have met a few of his friends from college over the preceding few months. I have also heard some details about others. There is a biological girl that has given everyone her chosen male name and from now on she is a he and he gets quite upset should anyone not follow his rules re pronouns etc. Likewise there is a biological boy that lives life as a girl. A couple of others refuse all gender labels and insist they are of no sex. Unsurprisingly people sometimes forget who they are talking too and people are often getting offended. Too add to this confusion there is one person that determines their gender on a seemingly day to day basis on how they feel.

    There are several young adults in his year that have identity issues; and perhaps he is struggling a bit too. A couple of weeks ago I heard him say on the phone that he might be bisexual. (Rewind just one year ago - I heard him express feeling uncomfortable about homosexual relations and that he just 'felt' it was wrong). Yes, people can change their opinions over time and maybe he is just learning more about himself. However, I think he is most likely confused a little and still trying to work out where he fits into everything. I say this because his attractions all lie in the female direction, it was only boys dressing as girls that he found a bit 'confusing'.

    Fitting in for many people is a mostly unconscious process. Exposed to the 'modern' ideas about gender identities and political correctness I cannot say with confidence I would have negotiated that environment smoothly.

    Perhaps the biggest problem for him is having to constantly check yourself before you speak, who are you talking too and are you using the proper pronouns. Could it be considered offensive etc. etc. The end result for many, it seems, is less talking. That is the safest way.
    The way we used to handle this on my group of friends was more like this

    We did not use anything like "he/she/they/them/whatever"

    We simply called the person by their name, whichever they had at the time, If a guy suddenly was Alexandra then that was it, "Where is Alexandra?" "Alexandra is over there",

    Or like

    - Have you seen Alex?
    + Yes Alex's over there

    Instead of "Yes he/she/they is over there"

    It always fit because no matter the person feels like that day or who they feel they are, their name is their name and that avoids the possible problem with having to check yourself constantly

    But may not work the same everywhere, don't know

    ETA:

    But probably someone can find a way to say that mentioning the person by their name instead of a preferred pronoun is also offensive because it ignores how the person wants to be called as or defined as or treated like or accepted as or something like that

    as a parent of around 5 children through their formatives years I have a much different take.

    I've long acknowledged and accepted that I am the masculine influence with unexperienced humans (my preferred descriptor for young people)... For me, I quickly saw through "attention seeking" behavior.. aka.. "Victim" behavior... which I feel is very applicative to most of the current sexual confusion debate in modern times.

    I think it's very important to not support subversive purposefully confusing narratives such as this; I've leaned on history, current observation and natural tendencies to help clarify the topic.

    I truly appreciate your companionate (I assume) response to the situation and the actions that come because of that very noble drive.... however, as a parent, I will do everything possible to educate and debate these types of situations, time given will generally show that attention seeking modalities are due to other issues that need attention... I do not accept abhorrent behavior on it's surface with out deeply investigating the root cause (something I think the current sexual confusion movement is rife with).
    Hard times create strong men, Strong men create good times, Good times create weak men, Weak men create hard times.
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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)

    as a parent of around 5 children through their formatives years I have a much different take.
    I was going to make a full post about this but unfortunately i don't have two things: time and much interest in the topic anymore

    So i'll be just doing this

    1. How do you have 'around 5 kids', is that 4 kids and a half kid, or 5 kids and 0.3 percent of another j/k, When was the last time you checked how many kids you have? Are you keeping count? I'm sorry but that's a very odd thing to say "i have around 5 fingers on each hand, may have 4 and half, or 6.. don't know"

    2. The scenario is completely different and not related at all. My friends are not my kids, they are my adult friends already, i don't and won't try to influence them or educate them to follow my personal beliefs, is not my problem and task. They are between 20 and 30 years old, it's they issue and not mine. So i don't get how you disagree with me just avoiding the issue of pronouns by using a simple strategy and somehow comparing that to raising a kid and educating them into your way of thinking/feeling and environment. You said "As a parent" and once again i say "My friends are not my kids", is not my problem and not my task to educate them, so it's not even remotely something you can compare with your situation

    Unfortunately gotta go out now, so i don't know when i'll be able to read a reply, if any, but thanks for your reply
    Tired

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Quote Posted by Malisa (here)
    1. How do you have 'around 5 kids', is that 4 kids and a half kid, or 5 kids and 0.3 percent of another j/k, When was the last time you checked how many kids you have? Are you keeping count? I'm sorry but that's a very odd thing to say "i have around 5 fingers on each hand, may have 4 and half, or 6.. don't know"
    I've been at minimum a 6 year, at most 11 year enfluence on two different women's children, they were not biologically mine, so it's a bit fuzzy

    Quote Posted by Malisa (here)
    2. The scenario is completely different and not related at all. My friends are not my kids, they are my adult friends already, i don't and won't try to influence them or educate them to follow my personal beliefs, is not my problem and task. They are between 20 and 30 years old, it's they issue and not mine. So i don't get how you disagree with me just avoiding the issue of pronouns by using a simple strategy and somehow comparing that to raising a kid and educating them into your way of thinking/feeling and environment. You said "As a parent" and once again i say "My friends are not my kids", is not my problem and not my task to educate them, so it's not even remotely something you can compare with your situation

    Unfortunately gotta go out now, so i don't know when i'll be able to read a reply, if any, but thanks for your reply
    I guess I was speaking more to the influence of that type of thought patterns and what the unintended consequences could be.
    Hard times create strong men, Strong men create good times, Good times create weak men, Weak men create hard times.
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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    They, 'woke crowd'?, say they are not sexualising children!

    You only need to watch a few minutes I think...



    Unbelievable!

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
    ~ Jimi Hendrix

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Quote Posted by Mark (Star Mariner) (here)
    Speechless...

    Anyone who embraces the argument presented by the woman in this interview is essentially saying there is no longer any such thing as objective reality. In other words, the very cornerstone of the Scientific Revolution in Western Civilization is now in doubt, it no longer exists.

    Subjectivism may be an interesting philosophical construct, but no civilization will ever function on the grounds of a subjective interpretation of reality.

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Quote Posted by T Smith (here)
    Quote Posted by Mark (Star Mariner) (here)
    Speechless...

    Anyone who embraces the argument presented by the woman in this interview is essentially saying there is no longer any such thing as objective reality. In other words, the very cornerstone of the Scientific Revolution in Western Civilization is now in doubt, it no longer exists.

    Subjectivism may be an interesting philosophical construct, but no civilization will ever function on the grounds of a subjective interpretation of reality.

    That's what "postmodernism" is in a nutshell, as I understand it.

    This lunacy has all been mainstreamed now, which is both good and bad. Good because people are finding out about it and bad because some of those people are embracing it.

    Maybe a year or so ago no one really knew what postmodernism and neomarxism was. No one really knew just how crazy all this gender bending madness really was. Trying to explain it all was tough because people would look at you like you were nuts.

    It was like seeing a comet crashing down into the earth, and running around and screaming "Take Shelter! Incoming comet!" ...but with no one else really being able to see the comet. They'd just look at you running around and screaming and wonder why you didn't take your pills that day.

    I was one of those screamers for a while. But now this stuff is being covered on FOX news, and on the Daily Wire, and in loads of podcasts, and while I'm not certain the war will be won I am very relieved everyone finally caught on. I see videos like the one above all the time now, and if I posted them all here on Avalon it would be a full time job lol.

    That woman is absolutely, positively bat-sh!t crazy and should either be in jail or an asylum of some sort

    If people can be convinced that men can be women and vice versa, they can be convinced of anything. And I really think that's the mission
    Last edited by Mike; 1st August 2022 at 18:15.

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)

    That woman is absolutely, positively bat-sh!t crazy and should either be in jail or an asylum of some sort
    That sounds like a joke, but it's not. These kinds of people are genuinely mentally ill.

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)

    That woman is absolutely, positively bat-sh!t crazy and should either be in jail or an asylum of some sort
    That sounds like a joke, but it's not. These kinds of people are genuinely mentally ill.

    Oh I was deadly serious! I agree with you 150%.

    It's like a social contagion that causes one to become ideologically possessed. And that is a form of mental illness. It's something like a mass hypnosis, or brainwashing. Or maybe it's best to call it social engineering.

    It presents itself as a loving, compassionate movement, so some of the most vulnerable are the empathic. And of course the youth too because it provides very simple and convenient answers to the natural confusion and angst they experience as they grow and mature and so forth. And also the mentally ill.

    Is this how you view it Bill? I'm tired and groggy today and I feel like I'm missing something. Truthfully I think it's Satanic or demonic in origin.

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Thanks to contributors.
    This thread seems more relevant than ever, for all the wrong reasons.
    We are in a mental asylum. Well not the members here, we know better.
    I haven't phrased that very well --but I think you know where I am coming from.
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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Quote Posted by T Smith (here)
    Quote Posted by Mark (Star Mariner) (here)
    Speechless...

    Anyone who embraces the argument presented by the woman in this interview is essentially saying there is no longer any such thing as objective reality. In other words, the very cornerstone of the Scientific Revolution in Western Civilization is now in doubt, it no longer exists.

    Subjectivism may be an interesting philosophical construct, but no civilization will ever function on the grounds of a subjective interpretation of reality.

    This reminded me of the scene in 1984 when Winston was tortured to say that 5 fingers were held up not 4 -



    1984 - how many fingers?

    In a nutshell.... we are being tortured with nonsense and bullied into compliance -

    Just saw this on the InfoWars site and it's along the same lines - (mental torture and bullying) where a man was arrested for re tweeting a mock up of LBGT flags in the shape of a swastika.... the very serious problem that we have is that the Police Force and the Judiciary is obviously infiltrated at higher levels by NWO, WEF, Globalist adherents - the police who turned up actually proved the point being made with the mock up of the flags -


    https://www.infowars.com/posts/video...e-on-facebook/

    Quote Video has emerged of British police arresting an army veteran after the man shared a meme on Facebook that was claimed to have “caused anxiety” for someone.

    51-year-old Darren Brady was arrested in Aldershot Friday for re-posting a meme of LGBT flags arranged in the shape of a swastika.

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